RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference

["Eric Burger" <eburger@snowshore.com>]

I *very* much agree with Roni here.  I would argue that CPCP should have small primitives that applications can build arbitrarily complex behaviors.

Let us not try to put everything in CPCP.  As Roni has said in a few messages, reservation processing is extremely complex.  There is no reason to put all of this into CPCP.  Just starting and ending a conference is enough.  All of the complex behaviors that people have been discussing can be built on this.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Even, Roni [mailto:roni.even@polycom.co.il]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:14 AM
> To: 'Michael Hammer'; Even, Roni
> Cc: 'Drage, Keith (Keith)'; 'Rosen, Brian'; Even, Roni;
> 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> 
> 
> Mike,
> This is a service that is not available by all conference 
> bridges and will
> need to be implemented by an application server that will use 
> CPCP to start
> the breakout session and invite the participants to it. 
> What happens in the end of the breakout session, does the 
> conference bridge
> bring all to the main conference, can the moderator extend 
> it,, all these
> are applications and not part of the conference service in my view
> Roni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Hammer [mailto:mhammer@cisco.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:02 PM
> To: Even, Roni
> Cc: 'Drage, Keith (Keith)'; 'Rosen, Brian'; Even, Roni;
> 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> 
> 
> Roni,
> 
> I am still a little fuzzy on what is/is not being addressed.
> 
> For example, if the conference moderator wanted to create 
> breakout sessions 
> with defined start and stop times with assigned participants, 
> could this be 
> setup with CPCP such that the breakouts are created in 10 
> minutes, then 
> terminate after another 10 minutes?  Note, for certain 
> purposes, one may 
> want to disallow independent sidebars using that conference server.
> 
> Is this possible?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> At 10:18 AM 1/14/2004 +0200, Even, Roni wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I did not think that the conference work was also addressing 
> reservation
> >systems and that is why it is not clear to me why we need 
> the start and
> stop
> >time of a conference in CPCP. If conference reservation is 
> in the scope of
> >the work then we need some more parameters in CPCP for 
> supporting it. We
> >also need to understand what it may support for example can 
> I give a start
> >time in 2050, what about next month, can I learn from CPCP 
> what resources
> >are available at a specific time.  If the start and stop 
> time are only what
> >they sound and the application is handled by an application 
> server then
> what
> >is the difference between having a start and stop time and 
> letting the
> >application server start the conference when the scheduled 
> time has arrived
> >Thanks
> >Roni Even
> >
> >*************************************
> >Roni Even
> >
> >Polycom Israel
> >
> >Tel: +972-3-9251200
> >Cell: +972-55-481099
> >email:roni.even@polycom.co.il
> >*******************************************
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Drage, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage@lucent.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:55 PM
> >To: 'Rosen, Brian'; 'Even, Roni'
> >Cc: 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> >Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> >
> >
> >I do not remember seeing the existence of this separate 
> protocol in any of
> >the conferencing documents so far (either in SIPPING or 
> XCON). (If I am
> >wrong then pointers gratefully received). If it exists, then 
> I think we
> >should clearly identify what its scope is, if only to aid 
> the discussion of
> >what the other protocols may or may not do.
> >
> >We clearly need a start and stop time for conferencing. At 
> the moment the
> >only protocol it can be in is the CPCP. If we are going to 
> have an informed
> >discussion about why it is not in CPCP we need to understand 
> clearly what
> >the alternative protocol is.
> >
> >regards
> >
> >Keith
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rosen, Brian [mailto:Brian.Rosen@marconi.com]
> > > Sent: 06 January 2004 14:14
> > > To: 'Even, Roni'
> > > Cc: 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't like this idea because I think that we need a
> > > standardized interface
> > > for scheduling and "external application server" sounds very
> > > proprietary to
> > > me.  I guess I could be convinced we need a separate 
> interface, with a
> > > separate protocol (maybe it could be iCal), but I'm not 
> yet convinced
> > > just specifying a start time in the future isn't a sufficient
> > > reservation
> > > mechanism.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Even, Roni [mailto:roni.even@polycom.co.il]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:22 AM
> > > To: 'Rosen, Brian'; 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian,
> > > My suggestion is not to have reservation in the 
> conference policy. The
> > > conference policy is used by the focus according to the
> > > conference framework
> > > and the focus is not the place for handling reservation. 
> I think that
> > > reservation is handled by an external application server that
> > > will start the
> > > conference using CPCP at the time when the conference
> > > scheduled time has
> > > arrived. The focus may use the conference duration
> > > information in order to
> > > notify the participants that it the conference end-time 
> is coming and
> > > terminate the conference. Extension of the should be done
> > > using CPCP either
> > > by the participant or an application server.
> > > Roni
> > >
> > > *************************************
> > > Roni Even
> > > VP Product Planning
> > > Polycom Israel
> > >
> > > Tel: +972-3-9251200
> > > Cell: +972-55-481099
> > > email:roni.even@polycom.co.il
> > > *******************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rosen, Brian [mailto:Brian.Rosen@marconi.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 4:25 PM
> > > To: 'hisham.khartabil@nokia.com'; xcon@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, I'm worried about "privileged users".  I think we need
> > > to finish
> > > some discussions we started a while ago that essentially are
> > > semantics.
> > > What is an "inactivated" conference, and how does it differ from a
> > > conference that can be re-instantiated (a weekly meeting 
> for example)?
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com 
[mailto:hisham.khartabil@nokia.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:57 AM
> > > To: xcon@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: de-activating a conference
> > >
> > >
> > > This is in reference to requirement REQ-B9 in
> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-cpcp-reqs-00.txt
> > >
> > >    REQ-B9: It MUST be possible to inactive a conference for defined
> > >    period of time.
> > >
> > > There are start and stop times for a conference. A conference
> > > might live for days, weeks or even months. Should a
> > > conference policy, using CPCP, allow a privileged user to
> > > de-activate a conference for a period of time within the
> > > start and stop times of a conference? Examples are
> > > administrator is performing some maintenance.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Hisham
> > >
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