RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants

[hisham.khartabil@nokia.com]

I agree with Keith. That's why we removed hidden participants and are content with anonymous. Legal interception can be local implementation and policy.

/Hisham

> -----Original Message-----
> From: xcon-admin@ietf.org [mailto:xcon-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of ext
> Drage, Keith (Keith)
> Sent: 04.February.2004 11:47
> To: Cullen Jennings; Eric Burger; XCON-IETF
> Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
> 
> 
> In the current mechanisms I know of for supporting legal 
> intercept (in 3GPP), the interceptor would not even be a 
> participant, therefore I am not convinced that this is 
> relevant to the issue of hidden participants anyway.
> 
> regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com]
> > Sent: 03 February 2004 17:08
> > To: Eric Burger; XCON-IETF
> > Subject: Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't care if we support hidden participants but I feel that the
> > requirements for Legal Intercept should definitely be out. 
> > There are way too
> > many land minds over yonder and it is not the point of this 
> > WG to solve
> > those. 
> > 
> > Cullen
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 1/20/04 8:00 AM, "Eric Burger" <eburger@snowshore.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Would Legal Intercept be in or out?  E.g., hidden 
> > participants that CANNOT be
> > > known.
> > > 
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Drage, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage@lucent.com]
> > >> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 6:14 AM
> > >> To: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com; mhammer@cisco.com
> > >> Cc: xcon@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> I believe hidden users are appropriate.
> > >> 
> > >> I do not believe that this adds complexity to the
> > >> specifications (particularly to the specification of CPCP),
> > >> so I see no need to make it a DEFER as far as the
> > >> specifications are concerned. It may add complexity to the
> > >> implementation, so I am quite happy to see it a MAY in the
> > >> requirements, so that it is optional to implement.
> > >> 
> > >> As regards the legal implications of hidden users, then yes,
> > >> there may be priveleged users that are able to request the
> > >> identity of hidden users (along with an indication that they
> > >> are hidden). This of course requires the enabling of such a
> > >> privileged user in the first place.
> > >> 
> > >> Secondly, it may not be necessary to identify hidden users,
> > >> but merely that there are hidden users in the conference (in
> > >> addition to any that may have made themselves visible). Some
> > >> countries require some form of tone or announcement on voice
> > >> conferences when someone else is listening in. They also
> > >> require an announcement or other indication in the call is
> > >> being recorded.
> > >> 
> > >> regards
> > >> 
> > >> Keith
> > >> 
> > >> Keith Drage
> > >> Lucent Technologies
> > >> drage@lucent.com
> > >> tel: +44 1793 776249
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com 
> > [mailto:hisham.khartabil@nokia.com]
> > >>> Sent: 15 December 2003 16:29
> > >>> To: mhammer@cisco.com
> > >>> Cc: xcon@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: RE: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>> 
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: ext Michael Hammer [mailto:mhammer@cisco.com]
> > >>>> Sent: 15.December.2003 18:17
> > >>>> To: Khartabil Hisham (NMP-MSW/Helsinki)
> > >>>> Cc: xcon@ietf.org
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [XCON] CPCP Requirement: Hidden Participants
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Related to this is there a requirement that, while not
> > >>> revealing the 
> > >>>> identity of a hidden user, the conference policy contains
> > >>>> state indication
> > >>>> about either the presence of hidden users, or the
> > >>>> possibility/preclusion
> > >>>> that such hidden users may be present?
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> I am anticipating that:
> > >>>> 1) Laws may exist that require notification of such.
> > >>> 
> > >>> That's a good point. This might require changes to the
> > >>> conference event package to indicate if there are hidden
> > >>> participants or not, and if so, how many.
> > >>> 
> > >>> The question remain: is there a need for such a feature (to
> > >>> hide users?)?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Hisham
> > >>> 
> > >>>> 2) In some conferences, participants may want technical
> > >>>> assurance that
> > >>>> hidden users are not possible before they speak.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Mike
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> At 02:55 PM 12/15/2003 +0200, hisham.khartabil@nokia.com wrote:
> > >>>>> This is in reference to requirements REQ-A7 and REQ-E10 in
> > >>>> 
> > >>> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-cpcp-reqs-00.txt
> >>>> 
> >>>>    REQ-A7: It SHOULD be possible to participate in a
> >> conference as a
> >>>>    hidden user. Hidden user is present in a conference, but
> >>> his presence
> >>>>    is not revealed.
> >>>> 
> >>>>    REQ-E10: It MUST be possible to allow and disallow
> >>> hidden membership
> >>>>    in a conference.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Should a conference policy, using CPCP, specify if a user
> >>> can be hidden? 
> >>>> This means that the conference state package does not report the
> >>>> participation on the hidden user. CPCP is used to identify
> >>> which users are
> >>>> hidden. The list of hidden users is only manipulated by a
> >>> privileged user
> >>>> such as the moderator.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Hisham
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> XCON mailing list
> >>>> XCON@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
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