RE: [XCON] SIP or beneath SIP on conf-sidebars-01

[Eric Burger <eburger at brooktrout.com>]

So we're done.  Get to the conference via SS7, H.323, SIP, or carrier
pigeon.

Conference media manipulation done with H.245.

Code exists, tons of implementations, and for those that like Binary
Conference Protocols, it already has a binary representation.

The "can't change endpoint" is a red herring.  NO endpoint will be able to
use "advanced features" without changing it.

If you are at a dumb gateway, you already either have an application running
that is listening for DTMF tones or an application listening for HTTP posts
to present a user interface for the caller.  *That* entity is what
INVITES/REFERS/MUMBLES the dumb gateway.  No changes needed at gateway.

I just promised text.  It is coming.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br at brianrosen.net]
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 1:13 PM
> To: 'Eric Burger'
> Cc: xcon at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [XCON] SIP or beneath SIP on conf-sidebars-01
> 
> 
> I don't agree.
> 
> You get into the focus through SIP or other signaling means
> 
> You get into the a sidebar through CPCP
> 
> You manipulate the media in the sidebar through MPCP
> 
> Always, regardless of circumstances.
> 
> If you try to do it with SIP, you can't have a non conference aware 
> UA in a sidebar.
> 
> Brian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Burger [mailto:eburger at brooktrout.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 12:21 PM
> To: Brian Rosen
> Cc: xcon at ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [XCON] SIP or beneath SIP on conf-sidebars-01
> 
> I understand the proposal; I just haven't bought in to it yet.
> 
> If the sidebar was its own SIP object, then there would be 
> one way to get to
> the sidebar and to manipulate it.  The current proposal says, 
> "it magically
> happens through CPCP sometimes, through MPCP sometimes, and 
> through SIP
> sometimes, depending on what you are doing."  Would it not be 
> easier to
> simply say, "Do stuff through SIP always"?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brian Rosen [mailto:br at brianrosen.net]
> > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:24 AM
> > To: 'Eric Burger'; xcon at ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [XCON] SIP or beneath SIP on conf-sidebars-01
> > 
> > 
> > In most cases, when you enter a sidebar, your SDP does not change.
> > The only time you need new SDP is if you need to add (or delete,
> > but that would be uncommon) a media stream.  The same is true
> > if you change roles.  You could even have a control that enabled
> > a media stream necessitating an SDP change.
> > 
> > You don't reInvite to the sidebar URI, you stay with the main
> > conference.  The sidebar URI is only needed for a participant
> > to join the sidebar, but not the main conference.
> > 
> > So I think we're pretty consistent:
> > 	You reInvite if your role or sidebar or control situation
> > 		causes a media change
> > 	You use the main conference URI except in the case of
> >  		in the sidebar, not in the main conference situation
> > 
> > It really, really is a mixer thing.  There are corner cases that
> > make it more complicated, but that's always true.
> > 
> > Brian
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xcon-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:xcon-bounces at ietf.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Eric
> > Burger
> > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:44 AM
> > To: xcon at ietf.org
> > Subject: [XCON] SIP or beneath SIP on conf-sidebars-01
> > 
> > A bunch of the reqs, like the discussion around REQ-9 on the 
> > first paragraph
> > of page 5, sound like who gets listened to in the sidebar.  
> > However, isn't
> > it who is speaking?  "a user can only listen to a single 
> > audio stream at a
> > time", while strictly true, sounds like you can't have a mix. 
> >  The mix *is*
> > the single audio stream.
> > 
> > In the next paragraph, the sidebar is discussed as an SDP 
> > thing.  I'm not
> > sure I agree with the previous discussion
> > <http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xcon/current/msg00694.h
> tml> that a
> sidebar is not a SIP thing.  What is the difference between 
> INVITing to a
> new URI versus a re-INVITE with different SDP.
> 
> Likewise, in section 4, "if the sidebar has different media 
> types than the
> main conference, then the focus will need to re-INVITE" 
> highlights this
> issue.  By not considering the sidebar as a SIP object, you have this
> convoluted "if-then-else-if-then-else" method of creating 
> sidebars.  If the
> sidebar is a SIP object, then there is one and only one 
> method of creating,
> joining, changing, etc. sidebars.  Much easier.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 

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