RE: [XCON] Whisper vs. Sidebar

[Markus.Isomaki at nokia.com]

Hi Miguel,

I think this is all about user's desire, by that this could be part of the conference policy that users are able to manipulate.

On the other hand, I see your point here: Even if the user/terminal would be able to see what the policy for a particular sidebar/whispering is, it might get very confusing for the actual human user if this policy varies from one conf to another (for instance a bad/small UI might not be able to convey this at all...).

So it is hard to say how much flexibility we should have in this type of privacy issues without causing too much confusion for the users. As you suggest, it would be good if e.g. the issuer of a whisper could mandate that this whisper must be private (not sent to anyone else than the intended recipients), and if the conf policy does not allow this, the request should fail. Oh well, this might be such a rathole that we may want to keep things even simpler.

Markus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia at nokia.com]
> Sent: 16 November, 2004 15:28
> To: Isomaki Markus (Nokia-TP/Espoo)
> Cc: Brian Rosen; xcon at ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [XCON] Whisper vs. Sidebar
> 
> 
> Aren't we forgetting also the user's desire?
> 
> Imagine the policy of the conference indicates that whispers 
> are public 
> in this conference. So does it mean my whispers will turn to 
> be public, 
> even I want to be private?
> 
> I think we need to come back and provide a definition of sidebar and 
> whispering, both in terms of media mixing and privacy. This will 
> determine how I can signal what sort of sidebar/whispering I want to 
> initiate, whether that is acceptable to the conference policy or not, 
> and whether they will be visible in the conference event 
> package or not.
> 
> - Miguel
> 
> Isomaki Markus (Nokia-TP/Espoo) wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I think whether sidebars are public or restricted should be 
> determined in the conference policy.
> > 
> > Whispers in general are private, although it might be 
> useful to have the policy to include a privilege to see a 
> whisper e.g. for a moderator. But this might be just feature creep.
> > 
> > Technically I think sidebars and whispers are very 
> different. Sidebars should be explicitly formed and have a 
> clear communication context, while whispering should be 
> always possible and "stateless". The analogy would be the 
> comparison between delivery of one-shot IMs vs. establishment 
> and communication within a messaging session.
> > 
> > Markus
> > 
> > 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: xcon-bounces at ietf.org 
> [mailto:xcon-bounces at ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> >>ext Miguel Garcia
> >>Sent: 15 November, 2004 15:56
> >>To: Brian Rosen
> >>Cc: xcon at ietf.org
> >>Subject: Re: [XCON] Whisper vs. Sidebar
> >>
> >>
> >>Well, this is an important subject, because I recently 
> commented (in 
> >>SIPPING) that the conference event package should not show 
> >>participants 
> >>that are whispering to other participants, due to privacy reasons.
> >>
> >>Now you mention that sidebars are also private, something I 
> >>thought it 
> >>wasn't the case. So, if sidebars are also private by nature, they 
> >>shouldn't be visible in the conference event package either.
> >>
> >>I still think sidebars are public. Participants can freely join a 
> >>sidebar, providing they know how to do it.
> >>
> >>- Miguel
> >>
> >>Brian Rosen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I think both sidebars and whispers are private.  Only the 
> >>
> >>people in them
> >>
> >>>know that they are there.  
> >>>
> >>>Brian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia at nokia.com]
> >>>>Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:26 AM
> >>>>To: Brian Rosen
> >>>>Cc: 'Eric Burger'; xcon at ietf.org
> >>>>Subject: Re: [XCON] Whisper vs. Sidebar
> >>>>
> >>>>Brian Rosen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I claim that the ONLY difference between a classic sidebar 
> >>
> >>and a whisper
> >>
> >>>>is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>that the Coach has a full duplex connection to the 
> >>
> >>sidebar, while the
> >>
> >>>>Agent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>only has a half duplex connection.  The Mark is not in the 
> >>
> >>sidebar at
> >>
> >>>>all.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>As with any sidebar, everyone hears the "main mix".
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Another difference is that whispers are typically private 
> in nature,
> >>>>whereas sidebars are public. If I am whispering to Brian, I 
> >>
> >>don't think
> >>
> >>>>the rest of the conference would like to know that I am actually
> >>>>whispering to Brian. If I want to make this information 
> >>
> >>public, I would
> >>
> >>>>use a sidebar.
> >>>>
> >>>>- Miguel
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Miguel A. Garcia           tel:+358-50-4804586
> >>>>Nokia Research Center      Helsinki, Finland
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-- 
> >>Miguel A. Garcia           tel:+358-50-4804586
> >>Nokia Research Center      Helsinki, Finland
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>XCON mailing list
> >>XCON at ietf.org
> >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Miguel A. Garcia           tel:+358-50-4804586
> Nokia Research Center      Helsinki, Finland
> 

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