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[12:21:30] <Jim Galvin> Is there nothing happening here?
[12:21:58] <Jim Galvin> Oh, I'm early.
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[12:30:32] <weiler> hi, Jim.
[12:31:04] <Jim Galvin> Hi Sam.
[12:31:44] <Jim Galvin> Are you in the room?
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[12:49:36] <weiler> i'm chairing the bof.
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[12:57:33] <weiler> Net in the room is flakey; we're not (yet) taking notes in the jabber room.
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[13:01:07] <hartmans> Anyone here want to scribe?
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[13:04:13] <weiler> Please?
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[13:04:45] * jishac begins to scribe adhoc like
[13:05:37] <jishac> Motivation to move forward is the point that there's value in providing security without authentication
[13:06:27] <jishac> basically ensuring that you are still talking to the same entity that you started with
[13:06:51] <jishac> without making sure that it's Jane or John Doe that your talking to
[13:07:40] <jishac> Basic Approach Joe Touch is talking about now is going back to basic D-H, which basically didn't have the authentication
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[13:12:48] <jishac> Steve Kent (BBN): why not consider DTLS? (Believe that to be the high order bit)
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[13:14:02] <jishac> Joe T: We fundamentally have a network layer spoofing issues, so we need to address the problem at the network layer
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[13:18:28] <jishac> So there seems to be an argument over definitions of "access controls" and what steve wants to call "continuity of communication" -> basically in regards to what it means to make sure packet 2 came from the same place as packet 1
[13:20:09] <weddy> it sounded more like "continuity of authentication" on the audio stream
[13:21:01] <jishac> good catch, thanks
[13:21:34] <jishac> So a RST has been thrown to the heartburn of this being a change to IKE and IPSec
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[13:24:38] <jishac> As it's more appropriate for the charter discussion (as wasn't quite the point of the introduction presentation by Joe)
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[13:36:02] <warlord> Is anyone taking notes in here/
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[13:55:31] <jishac> Consensus call: Must this coexist peacfully with IPSec
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[13:56:49] <jishac> (I think the consensus was: That you shouldn't have to implement both, but if you have both they should coexist)
[13:58:03] <weddy> you should be able to do one, the other, or both, at the implementor's discretion
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