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[14:37:11] <mrichardson> i though that there was a scripe?
[14:37:24] <mrichardson> I'm not scribing, I'm taking notes in a window.
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[14:57:31] <mrichardson> more scribes would help here.
[14:57:46] <mrichardson> seeing as I'm a tourist in this session.
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[15:13:12] <mrichardson> Erik: sounds like two kinds of BCP. a) host software creation people. b) how to configure the network. Gary: room, should we have two documents?
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[16:34:03] <mrichardson> 15:21:32 Detecting Network Attachment WG (dna) MONDAY, November 8 at 1530-1730 =============================== CHAIRS: Greg Daley <greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au> Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@nomadiclab.com> AGENDA: 5 min Introduction & Agenda bashing - agenda accepted. 5 min Documents status Milestone review: - done, submit to IESG goals for detecting network attachment in IPv6. - Dec. 04. submit IESG existing link layer hints catalogue. adopted as WG draft. ... Thank you to JinHyeock for draft-ietf-dns-goals-03.txt. draft-ietf-dns-link-information-00.txt for review needed. aim for Dec. 04. looking at adopting other documents, to be discussed today. BCP - two of them, would like them merged. - maybe a design team? 10 min Link information draft draft-ietf-dna-link-information-00.txt Eric Nejdjou presenting. Q: should additional technologies be added? 802.16? 802.3? there is a scenario where the equipment running the IP layer, it sees PPP as the link layer, not the GPRS. Link Up: NCP concludes, etc. there is some additional situations in 3GGP, where IP runs on top of the GPRS, without PPP. Bernard Adoba: a new IP address assignment mechanism for IPv6. There is one case where there is no PPP, but there is an RS/RA. speaker: The address context comes from the ADP? Soliman: the ADP only gives you the link local address? Discussion about IPv6 assignment in PPP context. Pekka: Is the link up for the application? BA: is the address up enough for the application? the draft is wrong about IPv6 address workings. Erik: same applies to IPv6 other ethernet. Greg: take it to the list. q: could we do .16 hints? commercial requirements? Ralph Droms: wait until IEEE gets the document in order? PLEASE DO REVIEWS NOW. 30 min Best Current Practises drafts draft-narayanan-dna-bcp-01.txt draft-jinchoi-dna-cpl-01.txt Retrospect: top-down approach. - get the structure of the document right first. Jinchoi: why so much emphasis on bi-directional reachability. Speaker: if bidirectional can be done, then unidirectional can be done. if you can have it, then why not? Erik: If one has 17 routers, do you need to test them all? Jinchoi: it owuld be good to do bi-directional detection, but not bi-directional reachability? Soliman: are we trying to detect movement, or confirm old link is okay? Gary: yes. Discussion about what the current practice for router advertisements? Pekka: current documents make it hard to actually detect movement. we need to document what we can actually do now (no changes to routers) Pekka: the focus should be what can you do only the hosts. We also have solutions work for this, where we introduce new ideas. Gary: the intention is that we work with any access network, regardless of whether or not they have the tweaks. Ralph: I think that this should include advice to network designers on what not to do. I.e. have two routers on a wireless network that advertise different prefixes. Christian Huitema (CH): please identify the tradeoffs in configuration, not a straight "do not do X" Erik: sounds like two kinds of BCP. a) host software creation people. b) how to configure the network. Gary: room, should we have two documents? Discussion of one document vs two documents. Discussion of can host methods depend upon network configuration. Erik: if the documents are split, then one half will not delay the other, since the review communities are very different. Pekka: brief explanation of CPL changes. Erik: discussion of security implications of spoofs of P1 and P2 are on the same link. 50 min Solutions Work draft-jinchoi-dna-soln-frame-00.txt slides. Pekka: should this document be adopted? last call, and submit as informational? Soliman: What if this does not work? Gary: a) design document published at same time. b) or have a design document may fail (-> Historical) There is some issue with interactions with IPv6 WG, and optomistic DAD. Gary: do not scare IPv6 WG. Pekka: Q1) do we adopt this document? Q2) do we proceed quickly with this? Survey: Q1: 10 hands. to no hands. Soliman: do not submit it immediately, but do submit it soon. XX: Pekka: a framework for thought. a list of approaches. draft-narayanan-dna-rrd-00.txt - this is standalone from other things. - could punt the security to SEND. Pekka: should it be individual submission or WG doc? Gary: take it to the list. draft-daley-dna-det-fastra-01.txt - see slides. draft-pentland-mobileip-linkid-03.txt - create a link identifier to allow hosts to quickly recognize link changes. Discussion of using the prefixes as the LinkID? Pekka: considered using a hash of the prefixes? Discussion of RA lifetimes vs prefix IDs. More discussion on the list. Erik: when you move to a different link, you have to wait longer? Erik: when moving to a different link, it would be good to get a RA quickly too. X: haven't done this yet. Gary: a failing of det-fastra is that the same router always responds. maybe you could change which one responds fastest. maybe the routers could know the sequence. "precession" Q: what about minimum delay for preferred router being less than maximum delay for non-preferred? X: yes, an issue. Comparison of solutions chart. 15 min Next steps Summary: RA caching draft will proceed as individual draft. (possible process issue discussed) Set up a design team for BCP documents to merge them. room is in favour of this. DONE: Mon Nov 8 17:35:14 EST 2004 5 min Summary
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