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[06:28:49] <williw> enum@cabal.dnss.ec
[06:29:59] <williw> hello
[06:30:20] <williw> enum@conf.jabber.sidn.nl
[06:30:26] <williw> hello
[06:31:06] <williw> enum@jabber.sidn.nl
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[07:24:56] <Jelte> hey roy
[07:25:05] <roy> Hey Jelte
[07:25:27] <Jelte> early birds
[07:26:01] <roy> Yes.
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[07:56:31] * axelm has changed the subject to: IETF68 ENUM WG session
[07:57:16] <axelm> as usual, i'll try to post raw minutes directly to this channel - please contribute what i have missed.
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[08:00:15] <Jelte> is it very quiet there or is the streaming sound not working?
[08:00:22] <paf> Very quiet...
[08:00:28] <Jelte> ah okay :)
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[08:01:35] <axelm> agenda posted at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07mar/agenda/enum.txt
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[08:02:41] <axelm> Richard Shockey opening meeting.
[08:02:55] <Jelte> (feedback info: sound is great)
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[08:03:13] <axelm> document overview: alex
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[08:06:08] <worley> Are the slides online?
[08:06:22] <paf> Yes, one second
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[08:06:54] <paf> https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=68
[08:06:57] <paf> Search for ENUM
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[08:07:20] <axelm> jon peterson: clear distinction between documents which are about Enumservices and the stuff related to infrastructure.
[08:07:30] <axelm> missing a piece about Enumservice registration.
[08:08:10] <axelm> shockey: 2 items: one: revision of 3761, second: Enumservices registration documents.
[08:08:23] <axelm> paf talking about revising 3761.
[08:08:57] <axelm> new version upcoming of 3761bis - requesting comments on that.
[08:09:08] <worley> Thanks, paf1
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[08:09:25] <axelm> bernie hoeneisen talking about Enumservices guide.
[08:09:33] <paf> http://stupid.domain.name/ietf/draft-ietf-enum-3761bis
[08:10:14] <axelm> added text about types and subtypes
[08:10:22] <axelm> new DNS consideration seciont.
[08:10:28] <paf> Btw, you can use that cgi of mine to look at any I-D that have ever existed (I hope), for example you can look at http://stupid.domain.name/ietf/enum
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[08:11:18] <axelm> experimental enumservices are going to be in a different draft.
[08:11:33] <axelm> lawrence voices that he likes this.
[08:11:59] <worley> Well, draft-baker-ipv6-renumber-procedure only is shown in the 00 rev, 01, 02, and 03 are deletion messages.
[08:12:20] <paf> That is because the secretariat used that numbering in the I-D archive...
[08:12:38] <axelm> IANA impact of the document? Jon Peterson:
[08:12:40] <paf> We can talk separately.
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[08:14:10] <axelm> definitely has IANA considerations, even more when the WG really is to be closed down.
[08:14:37] <axelm> ?? volunteers to help on the IANA section of the draft.
[08:15:11] <axelm> lawrence conroy: experimental is just "telling people that it is in use".
[08:15:56] <ogud> volunteer for IANA help was Mark McFadden
[08:15:57] <axelm> "drafts" just have a lifetime of 6 months.
[08:16:02] <axelm> thanks.
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[08:17:27] <axelm> Jim Reid: need mechanism to allow people to tell that and what codes are used.
[08:18:09] <axelm> Jon Peterson: slippery slope: migration, preregistration, etc.
[08:19:22] <axelm> Lawrence: different registries would make sense between experimental and standards track.
[08:20:02] <axelm> Marc Mc Fadden: look at URI scheme registry for an example between provisional and standards.
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[08:20:42] <axelm> Richard Shockey: not much contention so far in Enumservices.
[08:21:09] <axelm> Document does currently not contain anything which works without the WG.
[08:21:23] <axelm> Document Status:
[08:21:40] <paf> Pointers to the URN things that can be used as examples:
[08:21:41] <paf> http://www.iana.org/numbers.html#U
[08:21:41] <axelm> Shockey aims at Standards track, PEter Koch says other examples are usually BCPs
[08:21:47] <paf> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3406.txt
[08:22:08] <paf> "Informal Namespaces RFC3406 Two week review period on urn-nid discussion list (expert-Leslie Daigle), then FCFS"
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[08:23:19] <axelm> agreed that document should be a BCP
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[08:24:13] <axelm> shockey: get that work this done asap.
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[08:25:21] <axelm> next: lawrence conroy - "Enum Experiences"
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[08:26:18] <axelm> tried to tag things in document whether they are a "standard issue".
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[08:26:28] <axelm> or "advise"
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[08:26:51] <axelm> flags "stbo" stuff which does not seem to be standards compliant.
[08:27:04] <axelm> Interopability issues labeled as "INT".
[08:27:16] <axelm> requests comments to him or the list.
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[08:27:46] <axelm> shockey: are we ready for WGLC?
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[08:27:56] <axelm> conroy: yes, but please read and comment first.
[08:28:25] <axelm> paf: suggests issues to be numbered.
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[08:29:34] <axelm> lawrence: "please read the next version" then.
[08:29:44] <axelm> to be out this week.
[08:30:08] <axelm> lawrence conroy again on Enumservice "unused".
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[08:30:28] <axelm> this is replacing "void".
[08:30:54] <axelm> jonathan rosenberg: does not say in document - please do so.
[08:31:26] <axelm> two parts.
[08:31:38] <axelm> 1) enumservice "unused" registration.
[08:31:45] <axelm> 2) provisioning issues.
[08:32:16] <axelm> means "if you encounter that enumservice, give up" - don't default to PSTN.
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[08:33:07] <axelm> shockey: for "enum only ranges"?
[08:33:23] <axelm> lawrence: wider uses. not restricting it to enum-only number.
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[08:34:31] <axelm> provisioning issues: not possible to register _any_ unused number.
[08:35:00] <axelm> hence, wildcards - but they are evil ..
[08:36:46] <axelm> patrik:
[08:36:58] <axelm> no, peter koch:
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[08:37:56] <axelm> was concerned about the "client side wildcards" issue of void.
[08:39:14] <axelm> patrik: how bad is it that clients search in the DNS.
[08:39:44] <axelm> nervous about specifying that clients should perform searches.
[08:39:56] <axelm> lawrence: difference between DNS and ENUM clients.
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[08:42:18] <axelm> Jim: either deploy an ugly hack or lots of wildcards.
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[08:42:51] <axelm> ??: application of DNS not "kosher" in that case?
[08:43:18] <axelm> (Leslie) make it an explicit part of the ENUM resolution?
[08:43:30] <axelm> lawrence: is part of the usual DDDS resolution process.
[08:43:51] <axelm> Jon Peterson: holding been on to void a long time.
[08:44:13] <axelm> owning the only DISCUSS on IESG tracker (and got that from Allison)
[08:44:45] <axelm> message seems to be: what you want to do can't be done in DNS=
[08:44:46] <axelm> ?
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[08:45:15] <axelm> lawrence: perfectly possible (wildcards), but dangerous.
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[08:46:10] <axelm> Peter Koch: Know where that's coming from.
[08:46:37] <ft> I don't get it. if I programmatically generate ENUM NAPTRs for a zone of 1000 E.164 numbers (say 1.6.1.8.6.4.e164.arpa) - why would it be hard for me to generate unused: entrys for the vacant numbers in that zone?
[08:46:55] <axelm> seen that "fallback" process issues in other places of the DNS, too.
[08:47:04] <axelm> @ft: i say just "open numbering plans".
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[08:47:13] <paf> ft: Because you might you do not know how many numbers you have.
[08:47:37] <paf> Sorry...I will try to type again...
[08:47:51] <paf> Because you do not know what numbers to generate the response for.
[08:48:24] <ft> paf: you mean because in ENUM there isn't just +468161xxx, but also the possibility for +468161xxxxxx?
[08:48:33] <paf> Yes
[08:48:43] <ft> ok. thanks.
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[08:49:03] <paf> A simple description is that you have three different kind of numbering plans:
[08:49:11] <paf> - All numbers have the same number of digits
[08:49:29] <paf> - Numbers might have different number of digits, but you can know how many they are (like country codes)
[08:49:41] <paf> - Numbers can have variable length, and you can not know the number of digits
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[08:50:39] <no8> what constraints would such overloading place on potential future DNS-based applications?
[08:51:01] <no8> In other words, what grief are we storing up (if any)?
[08:51:13] <axelm> peter koch volunteers to work with the guys on unused.
[08:51:45] <axelm> lawrence: split between enumservices draft, and provisioning issue?
[08:52:59] <axelm> no objection to split document.
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[08:53:12] <axelm> Ed Lewis on E.212 Enumservices.
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[08:54:26] <axelm> talks about two drafts: e.212 enumservice plus e.212 tel URI parameter.
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[08:55:44] <axelm> E.212 is about mobile network and country codes.
[08:56:39] <axelm> would like a good use case.
[08:57:10] <axelm> number porting: no direct relation between number and network code.
[08:57:24] <axelm> for IM, MCC and MNC gives the server.
[08:58:02] <axelm> jonathan: "What is a non-SIP ENUM extension"?
[08:58:59] <axelm> lawrence: think that he meant "do non-SIP NAPTRs make sense?"
[08:59:16] <axelm> Jonathan: is that info public?
[08:59:22] <axelm> Ed: no, usage in private networks.
[09:00:22] <axelm> Stastny: E.212 is a identifier by itself, not related to a phone number.
[09:00:59] <axelm> ed: just want the MNC MCC info.
[09:01:07] <axelm> what network i want to connect to?
[09:02:13] <axelm> stastny: do you need that as an actual Enumservice? isn't adding it as a tel: parameter to another Enumservice enough?
[09:03:17] <axelm> received sugestion to use something like "aux-info:e212".
[09:04:24] <axelm> E212 URI parameters has MCC MNC MSIN IMSI
[09:04:34] <axelm> (MSIN and IMSI there fore completeness)
[09:04:37] <axelm> for
[09:05:55] <axelm> few typos in there will be fixed.
[09:07:35] <axelm> where should those docs go?
[09:08:05] <axelm> otmar lendl: in the case of austria, network information for ported numbers is publicly available.
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[09:09:12] <axelm> tel URI should not be here.
[09:09:16] <axelm> (jon peterson)
[09:10:12] <axelm> this service may route traffic differently based on the information in that enumservice.
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[09:10:36] <axelm> jon: Q - should we add auxiliary routing information to ENUM.
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[09:11:14] <axelm> Jonathan: concerned about shoving anything into ENUM or tel:
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[09:11:39] <axelm> not everything related to phone numbers is perfect for a tel URI parameter.
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[09:15:59] <axelm> discussion: repeatin the phone number does not make sense... use an URN?
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[09:22:17] <cullenfluffyjennings@gmail.com> draft-montemurro-gsma-imei-urn-01.txt
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[09:56:54] <no8> Niall O'Reilly joins remotely in the applause -- it's definitely worth doing
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