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[17:27:52] <mkomu> (01:22:00) mkomu: Petri Jokela presents base drafts (01:22:27) mkomu: TBD: checksum calculation is unfinished (01:22:45) mkomu: requesting the publication of the base draft (01:23:35) mkomu: esp draft has only editorial changes (01:23:55) mkomu: no comments have been sent (01:24:37) mkomu: RVS draft has received no comments, ready to be sent (01:25:27) mkomu: registration draft: Julien suggest that there should be added few senteces about the extensibility of the registration draft
[17:27:54] --- NMas has left
[17:29:07] <mkomu> Julien: more efficient look-up for the DNS draft Pekka: suggest reducing the number of look-ups.
[17:29:41] --- tkoponen has become available
[17:30:06] <mkomu> Pekka: suggests some changes for the look up for the RVS based on the domain names
[17:30:06] --- MikaK has become available
[17:30:44] <mkomu> Julien: what about storing the IP address in the RVS record
[17:31:02] <mkomu> Pekka: my gut feeling that it is a bad idea, but not sure about it
[17:31:17] <mkomu> Julien: will check the DNS guys because they know better than me
[17:32:11] <mkomu> Lars: we have sent the registration draft to the OpenHIP guys, hopefully it can be tested also by others and also interoperated
[17:32:47] <mkomu> Pekka: giving a presentation about mobility and multihoming on the behalf of Thomas
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[17:33:27] <mkomu> Pekka: the biggest change has been the locator field and optional rekeying scheme
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[17:33:54] <mkomu> Pekka: credit based authorization from Christian Vogt is also new in the draft
[17:34:45] <mkomu> Pekka: the credit based authorization protects from certain kind of attacks
[17:35:00] <mkomu> Pekka: multihoming is more or less the same
[17:35:27] <mkomu> Pekka: you only use one of the address at one time
[17:36:23] <mkomu> Pekka: the scheme will have something in common with shim6 approach
[17:36:23] <mkomu> Pekka: no real changes to the draft
[17:36:32] <mkomu> Pekka: waiting for interoperability feedbacj
[17:36:46] <mkomu> Pekka: should the draft be splitted
[17:36:48] --- lars has become available
[17:37:09] <mkomu> Pekka: the ESP stuff could be separated from the draft, but I am not sure if it useful
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[17:37:38] <mkomu> Pekka: the plan is to have interoperability testing done before Dallas
[17:38:29] <mkomu> Jari Arkko: one area in the draft that need more work is that if you compare it to mobike or shim6...
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[17:39:19] <mkomu> Jari: in shim6 they are working on reachability, maybe useful for the draft
[17:39:38] <mkomu> Pekka: I am not sure if we want to put those things to this draft
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[17:40:19] <mkomu> Pekka: it may still be useful to have that those things could be included
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[17:40:52] <mkomu> Jari: explained three central items that shim6 is currently working on
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[17:41:31] <mkomu> Pekka: wait until shim6 has done this and adapt those parts to HIP as well
[17:41:57] <mkomu> Jari: agree, especially for the two of the items
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[17:43:01] <mkomu> Pekka: any comments from implementors about interoperability?
[17:43:27] <mkomu> Miika Komu: Ericsson and Boeing have interoperated m&m already, HIPL is going to do it soon
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[17:43:58] <mkomu> Gonzalo: good to know, then we are already ahead on schedule
[17:45:03] <mkomu> Gonzalo: asks opinions about re-chartering
[17:45:37] <mkomu> Andrew: two things should be done tracking shim6, and NAT traversal
[17:46:12] --- raeburn has become available
[17:46:41] <mkomu> Pekka: we had a workshop a year ago in RG to decide what to do with HIP in the longer run
[17:47:14] <mkomu> Pekka: if we could make HIP into a solution that provides end-to-end connectivity through NATs
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[17:47:28] <mkomu> Pekka: HIP is creating a new layer between transport and IP
[17:47:56] <mkomu> Pekka: because we are separating the layers, NAT are not that problematic from that point of view
[17:48:12] <mkomu> Pekka: mentions architectected NAT
[17:48:35] <mkomu> Pekka: use the rendezvous as a proxy and registers with that
[17:49:07] <mkomu> Pekka: you can connect to a host behind a NAT using this approach
[17:49:12] <mkomu> Pekka: this is called PATH
[17:49:51] <mkomu> Pekka: we need to decide whether we want to modify NATs or just work-around through NATs in the chartering
[17:50:11] <mkomu> Pekka: about tracking shim6, agree with Jari
[17:50:40] <mkomu> Ward: it is difficult to insert as an item to the charted
[17:50:57] <mkomu> Jari: shim6 is going to finish by the end of this year
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[17:51:35] <mkomu> Pekka: about the invisible HIP approach. Apps draft defines a way to use HIP without HITs
[17:51:40] <mrichardson> modify NATs?
[17:51:46] <mkomu> Pekka: applications see what they see today
[17:52:07] <andrewm> More build a hip-aware nat than modify them
[17:52:24] <andrewm> (one way would be to simply run an RVS on the NAT)
[17:52:53] <mkomu> Pekka: the invisible approach is a little brittle with mobility and multihoming
[17:53:42] <mkomu> Pekka: we need to think about similar things like home addresses in MobileIP
[17:54:15] <mkomu> Pekka: from an deployment view this is good, but from an architectural view this is a hack
[17:54:35] <mkomu> Pekka: maybe Boeing people want to drive this approach
[17:54:47] <mkomu> Pekka: my personal opinion is that we should not do it
[17:55:17] <mkomu> Pekka: there maybe some upper layer compatility problems in this approach
[17:55:35] <mkomu> Ward: any comments?
[17:56:41] <mkomu> McGregor: the question of using a routable address is that what is the point of HIP vs, shim6
[17:58:46] <mkomu> mcgregor: based on the application try outs, the apps don't care what they are using Shepard: referrals XX: depends the needs of the application
[17:59:41] <mkomu> Lars: (changes topic)
[18:00:03] <mkomu> HIP unware NAT is more critical than HIP aware NAT
[18:01:02] <mkomu> Ward: (vote) how many people want to see NAT as chartered item
[18:01:25] <mkomu> Ward: if we propose rechartering, NAT will be there
[18:02:10] <mkomu> Lars: suggest application experimentations document
[18:02:53] <mkomu> Ward: normally APIs are not included unless the affect the protocol
[18:04:22] <mkomu> Ward: how many people do not want native API to be included in the charted (vote: 50-50)
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[18:06:54] <mkomu> Ward: APIs should be probably be done somewhere else XX: applications should be aware of HIP, and claiming that that is someone else's problem will not get the job done
[18:07:27] <mkomu> Gonzalo: SIP belongs to RG
[18:07:58] <mkomu> Lars: said something about IPsec crypto
[18:09:14] <raeburn> (xx was keith moore?)
[18:09:34] <andrewm> yes
[18:10:32] <mkomu> Lars: worried about the overhead caused by IPsec Pekka: my suggestion is that we could reuse something about shim6 to implement a non-IPsec based solution
[18:12:12] <mkomu> Julien: mentioned about IPv4-IPv6 translation, how about including it a charter XX: in IPv6 working group protocol translation was not preferred
[18:12:24] <lars> xx was martin stiemerling
[18:13:22] <mkomu> McGregor: talking between v4 and v6 TCP socket is not a good idea
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[18:13:43] <mkomu> Pekka: we have implemented this, but would not recommend to use it
[18:14:13] <mkomu> Pekka: I understood that Julien ment having a middlebox that does the translation
[18:14:25] <mkomu> Pekka: we need to have some operation experience before doing that
[18:15:31] <mkomu> keith: said something, missed completely :) Pekka: already defined in the m&m draft
[18:16:09] <mkomu> Gonzalo: do we have any other business, otherwise we will wrap up
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[18:16:24] <mkomu> Gonzalo: thank you and let's continue on the mailing list
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