IETF TICTOC Working Group Meeting Monday, November 17, 2008, 1520-1720 The jabber log can be found at: http://jabber.ietf.org/logs/tictoc/2008-11-17.txt The meeting was called to order by co-chairs Yaakov Stein and Stewart Bryant. Karen O'Donoghue took the minutes. There was no volunteer to act as jabber scribe; however, Kurtis Linquist did agree to monitor the room and provide any comments from remote attendees. The blue sheets were distributed, and the agenda was presented with no additions. Status Update, Yaakov Stein =========================== Slides: tictoc-2 Yaakov led a discussion on the status of the current working group work items and documents. The problem statement document is complete and ready to be progressed. Given that Stewart and Yaakov are the document authors, Mark Townsley asked Karen O'Donoghue to act as the document shepherd for this document. The requirements draft has not had sufficient input to date. The telecom portions have matured, but the remaining application areas are lacking. There was some discussion of and support for splitting the requirements document into two pieces in order to allow the more mature portions to progress. However, Karen expressed a concern that this would segment the work too much and move it away from the general next generation time synchronization solution. Kurtis asked why the material from the interim had not been captured. Silvana pointed out that the table had changed significantly during the Dublin meeting. Greg Dowd volunteered to help map the Paris notes back into the document. The chairs proposed to cutoff requirements input by the next IETF meeting. Discussion of the status of the architecture draft was deferred to later on the agenda. The final document is the RAN Requirements document. There is significant overlap between this document and the general requirements document. The authors of this document were asked to work with Silvana to help fold that material into the general requirements document. Yaakov raised the issue of the working group charter item to develop extensions to NTPv4 as necessary for time and frequency distribution, with primary focus on the public Internet. Karen raised a concern that this wasn't the right question, and Greg Dowd pointed out that this may or may not involve extensions to NTPv4. Kurtis pointed out that this is the IETF, and the Internet is the area we should be specifically focusing on. Greg indicated that there is an overwhelming feeling that these protocols already work well for the Internet, and we haven't done a gap analysis to show where they don't work. Doug Arnold, Greg Dowd, Kurtis Linquist, Karen O'Donoghue, and Juankui (John) Zhao volunteered to work on an ntp-ng design team. It was agreed that the design team would initially identify requirements and gaps to help quantify the next steps for ntp. Progress on the requirements draft, Silvana Rodriguez ===================================================== Document: draft-rodrigues-lindqvist-tictoc-req-01.txt Slides: tictoc-1 Silvana produced a short summary of the requirements document status, but she pointed out that all of her points had already been covered in the previous discussion on the status of the working group efforts. Implementation of on-path support, Jean Loup Ferrant ==================================================== Slides: tictoc-0 Jean-Loup Ferrant provided a discussion highlighting some of the issues associated with identification, measurement, and management of on-path support. How do we discover transparent clocks? Do time and frequency take the same path? The conclusion of the presentation is that there is significant work to be done in this area. Architecture draft, Yaakov Stein ================================ Document: draft-stein-tictoc-modules-02.txt No slides. Yaakov brought up the topic of how to make progress on the architecture draft. This evolved into a general discussion on how to establish and maintain momentum for the working group as a whole. The possibility of participating in the large interim meeting planned for January 2009 in Malta was raised, but virtually no one was in favor of participating. Instead, it was decided to try regular conference calls to keep the work progressing. Stewart and Karen will work logistics off line. (Subsequent discussions after the meeting resulted in a plan to have a first call on Monday, December 1, at 1700 UTC (1200 EST, 0900 PST)) Possible Topics for IRTF Research Group, Yaakov Stein ===================================================== Slides: tictoc-3 Yaakov provided a presentation on possible IRTF topics related to time and frequency. During the initial chartering of the TICTOC WG, it was felt that there were a number of topics that merited further discussion in the community. However, these topics were not mature enough for standardization. One possible mechanism to help mature the topics and solidify community consensus would be the establishment of an Internet Research Task Force research group on time and frequency. Yaakov proposed some possible topics and solicited others from the attendees. Possible topics include: PDV and clock recovery performance, new timing distribution topologies, security, new applications enabled by precise time. This discussion is still in the preliminary stages. In fact, the goals and non-goals appear to conflict. The next step is to talk to Aaron and determine if this is worth pursuing. Working group members are encouraged to think about what technical topics could benefit from this type of activity and send them to the list. The meeting was adjourned at 1700. However, there was a subsequent ad-hoc discussion of the requirements document following the NTP WG at 1800. This discussion focused on the specific information in the requirements table for various applications. This discussion adjourned at 1900.