IRTF SAM RG Agenda IETF 76
Monday, November 9, 2009, 1300 - 1500 
Meeting Notes

Agenda bash:

1. Introduction, Agenda - Chairs (5 min) 
2. ALM Design - Kazuki Shudo (15 min) 
3. Extending INET Framework for SAM Simulation - Mario Kolberg, John Buford (15 min) 
4. Proposal for a SAM testbed - John Buford (15 min) 
5. A Common API for Transparent Hybrid Multicast draft-waehlisch-sam-common-api-01 - Matthias Waehlisch (15 min) 
6. Design and Implementation of an XCAST6 Routing Engine draft-abade-xcast20-routing-engine-spec-00.txt - Odira Elisha Abade, Nobuo Kawaguchi (15 min) 
7. Multipoint Video Communication System with 3D Virtual Space - Shuntaro Nishiura, Nobuo Kawaguchi (15 min) 
8. Document Status & Future Work - Chairs (10 min) 
9. Summary of the SAM RG interim meeting at IEEE CCNC 2010 - Thomas Schmidt (15 min) 
10. 2010 Meeting Schedule 
=======================================================

1. Introduction, Agenda (Chairs)

Introduction of Thomas Schmidt as new co-chair of the RG.
=======================================================

2. Review of ALM Software in Practical Use
   Kazuki Shudo, Tokyo Institute of Technology

Self introduction
  4/01 - 3/06   Overlay Weaver
  4/06 - 11/08  Director, CTO
                UG Live: a P2P live streaming software
         - mesh-based ALM (vs tree based)
         - commercial.  achieved over 10^5 simultaneous viewers
  12/08 - present   Assoc. Prof., Tokyo Tech

ALM in practical use
 
PPLive, PPStream, Mysee, Roxbeam, UUsee,
UGLive from Utagoe Ing
BBbroadcast from TV Bank Corp
  developed by Roxbeam and TVBank
  originated from Cool Coolstreaming

Examples - Nippon Broadcasintg
           Live broadcasting of virtual games
           Broadcast professional baseball games

Traffic reduction
  90% of traffic reduced around the source

Demo: video of UGLive; 2Mbps video rate

UGLive cooperates witha  topology service (P4P, ALTO) see
Kamei's talk in P2P-rg IETF 75.


"mesh based" ALM is better.

Use Java applets, so runs in web browser

Use multiple overlays in parallel


Future -
  Can ALM compete with Unicast streaming services such as Ustream.tv and Ttickam?
  Unicast biz requires plenty investment
Install-less - does RTMFP, a p2p protocol in flash player help?
Support Flash (RTMP)? -> no or requires much work
  in case upward traffic is shut up, Windows media works but flush does not
Lesson: ALM software is not free from video streaming protocol

Q&A

- John Buford: Were the multiple overlays structured or unstructured?
=> UG LIve is unstructured 
- Thomas Schmidt: What is signaling overhead?  
=> probably comparable to other P2P content delivery 

=======================================================
3. Extending INET Framework for SAM Simulation 
   Mario Kolberg (U. Stirling), John Buford (Avaya Labs)

- VL - clarification on anycast and BGP
=> this is a point specific to INET

- Thomas Schmidt:
  Who in this room is working with OmNET++?
 => Two hands

- Matthias Waehlisch:
  We are just in the process of implementing MLD and MLD Proxy in INET and happy to collaborate
 
=======================================================
4. Proposal for a SAM testbed - John Buford 

- Comments from Aaron Falk (GENI Program Director)
More details about experiments would be good for 
community to see where this can be used. A good demo application.
 
There is the potential to tie in SAM testbed to GENI.
GENI is a federated testbed, e.g., 
including EMuLab, Tokyo CoreLab as leaf testbeds

- John Buford: How to include new SAM Testbed into GENI?
=> Contact Aaron @ GENI

- Matthias asks on multicast options in PlanetLab 
 => supposedly disabled by PlanetLab system distribution, but not sure.


========================================================
5. A Common API for Transparent Hybrid Multicast draft-waehlisch-sam-common-api-01 - Matthias Waehlisch

- John Buford: 
   Could we assume that every node is part of an overlay?
  => no, there could be legacy apps, or native apps on
     mobile devices that don't want overlay overhead

- Lorenzo Favalli:
  Do you introduce a particular new namespace?
 => no, just open up multicast for use with several namespaces

- other discussion about accomodating multiple name spaces

- Stig Venaas: 
  To emphasize, a particular use case of this work is to allow interoperation of 
  multicast group members that are connected via different multicast technologies.

=======================================================
6. Design and Implementation of an XCAST6 Routing Engine draft-abade-xcast20-routing-engine-spec-00.txt
Odira Elisha Abade, Nobuo Kawaguchi (15 min) 

John Buford questions
 - what was load on engine? "high"
 - what is latency? ... still being measured
 - feasibility of NETComp for maintaining RT ?  yes

Yugi IMAI
 - ready for IANA?  yes
    => will update XCAST 2.0 doc

Thomas Schmidt
 - integration between router and host?
    right now packets are forwarded using class id
      over network interface
    in future could be tied directly to router bus

=======================================================
7. Multipoint Video Communication System with 3D Virtual Space
Shuntaro Nishiura, Nobuo Kawaguchi (15 min)

=======================================================
8. Document Status & Future Work - Chairs (10 min) 

- Will XCAST documents be further extended?  authors: yes
- Will API documents be further extended? authors: yes
- Aaron Falk: IRTF information documents can later be
  standardized (after some time)
- Please aim for IETF 77 meeting for ID progression

=======================================================
9. Summary of the SAM RG interim meeting at IEEE CCNC 2010 
Thomas Schmidt (15 min)