IETF-87 Routing Area Open Meeting
=================================

http://rtg.ietf.org 
ADs: Stewart Bryant, Adrian Farrel

Scribe: Deborah Brungard 

Presented slides.
Stewart opened. Noted should send what say at mike/slides to Deborah for capture in the
minutes.
Adrian - Make sure using new "Note Well".
Stewart - Make sure send IPR requrest out before send to IESG. Getting alot of late IPR disclosures,
causing problems.
Jeff H. - We've been polling, and asking for response, before poll for WG document status also.


 

Administriva and Area Status
----------------------------
 

BFD (Jeff) - Not meeting in Berlin. Dave Ward is stepping down as co-chair, continuing as a WG Technical
Advisor. Nobo Akiya has been drafted. WG Document Status: Core and TC MIBs ready for WG last call. MPLS
MIB still work in progress. BFD on LAGs: Stable.  Could use one last pass of English editing. State variables
need to be documented. Almost ready for WGLC, should do before Vancouver. Multipoint BFD: No document updates.
Implementations in progress: Only implementing “silent tail”. WG to consider removing active tail functionality
from draft. WGLC after implementations and resolution of issues. WG Documents: Crypto documents stable, but
not yet implemented. Non-WG Documents: draft-akiya-bfd-intervals: May be adopted as informational/BCP WG item.
draft-akiya-bfd-seamless-*: Require more discussions on list. Potential candidate to discuss at Vancouver.
WG re-charter would be required.

CCAMP (Lou) - Document status: 1 RFCs published since last meeting. Four (G.709 related) with IESG. WSON
(Wavelength Switched Optical Networks) documents to be LC’ed. Meeting status: 2 sessions scheduled, Tuesday and
Wednesday. Several areas of work, most still individual documents: Overlays & UNI, Optical (Flexible grid and
impairment aware control) & others.

IDR (John)- Meet Thursday. Shorter slot. Will be more careful what doing as presentations - does work need
discussion, advance current work, work of another WG. Not "just ..". We also posted slides of all, then will
select.

I2RS (Alia) - Meeting on Thursday. Two day interim held. Went well. Few drafts got going. Currently calling to
adopt 4 drafts. Hoping for enough discussion so ready to accept next meeting. Can always use more participation.

ISIS (Hans - new chair) - Dave stepped down, new chair. Topics: Reclassification of RFC1142 to Historic,
constraining flooding scope of PDUs, ISIS support of unidirectional links, LAN interfaces, building distribution
trees.
 
Karp (Brian) - KARP meets Wednesday afternoon. We will be having what we hope is a concluding discussion on our
cryptographic key tables core document. This document has been recently revised and assuming recent edits are
agreeable to the WG it will be ready for an IESG re-review. We will also hear three security analysis presentations
for BFD, LMP, and RSVP-TE. These rounds out the protocol security analyses that are in the KARP charter, although
not all are yet WG documents. Finally we will have discussion on a couple of new key management drafts. The first
considers authorization and policy management for routing protocols, and complements other automated key management
work that has been considered in KARP. The second is a proposal for using TLS as a secure transport for PCEP.
In terms of progress against our charter, we've nearly completed publishing our core documents. We do need to
complete reviews of protocol analyses. A lot of good work has been done on key management but we're now at the
time we need to come to consensus on directions and move forward to complete our milestones.


L2VPN (Nabil) - Met yesterday. Four drafts on editors queue. Progressing EVPN, bulk of work. Requirements getting
ready to progress forward. IPLS will do as informational or historical. Still some work on VPLS multicast, PIM,
trying to finish. Going forward will focus on EVPN.

L3VPN (Thomas) - Met this morning. Had too many requests for our 3 hour slot. Only individual drafts presented.
Had long discussion on data centers and relationship to l3vpn. Concluded need coordination work with nvo3 and
l2vpn working groups. One document to editor, half dozen soon ready to last call.

Manet (Joe) - Three to IESG. Three working on. Four new documents.

MPLS (Ross) - Meeting tomorrow and Friday. Busy agenda. Two new RFCs, 4 in editor's queue. Six more in IESG
or AD processing. There are 25 drafts on the Agenda for this week (none of which are WG drafts). For more detail,
see the “MPLS WG Status” slides on the agenda page, or show up tomorrow morning. Loa added, 2 documents waiting
for IPR response to ready for publication.

NSC (BoF) - Met. Interest in doing. Looking to form WG for Vancouver.
 
NVO3 (Matthew) - No RFCs since last IETF. One draft in RFC editor’s queue: Problem Statement. Almost done WG LC:
NVO3 Framework. Meets on Thursday morning. Topics on agenda: Progressing existing WG docs, DP and CP requirements,
Use Cases, Gap Analysis, Architecture design team.

OSPF (Acee) - 3 new RFCs: OSPFv3 Embedded IPv4 Routing, OSPFv3 Registry Update, and OSPF(v3) Stub Router, aka,
RFC 3137 BIS. A couple in pipe on MANET: single hop drafts finished WG LC. Need to complete: OSPF TE Metrics, 
OSPFv2 Security Extensions, and OSPFv3 Auto-Config. Need to discuss and reach resolution: OSPF TTZ  and OSPF
Transport Instance. New Work to be presented at IETF 87: RFC 6506Bis, OSPFv3 LSA Extension, and OSPF MRT Profile
Advertisement. We're going to start being more tougher for what doing that it is relevant.
 
PCE (Julien) - Meeting tomorrow. No new rfcs. Two documents pasted WG last call. Third one just passed IESG.
On agenda, have hot topic stateful PCE extensions (10 documents). Some work with KARP on PCEP document will be
presented in KARP. And a segment routing one with PCEP. Also, PCEP with RBNF updates - also may interest ccamp and mpls.

PIM (Adrian) - There are 4 WG documents, 3 of them recently passed WGLC. Meeting on Thursday. A lot of activity.
Currently 10 drafts that authors would like the WG to adopt. One new topic that may interest you is the use of
Maximally Redundant Trees for failure protection.

PWE3 (Andy) - No RFCs since last IETF. One draft in RFC editor’s queue: Ethernet OAM Interworking. One draft in
WG last call: ICCP for L2VPN PE Redundancy. Meets on Thursday afternoon. Topics on agenda: (1) PW Endpoint fast
failure protection, (2) Experiences shepherding draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw. Interesting talk from LOa on his
challenging experience as shepherd on one document with many authors and getting IPR responses,(3) ICCP application
to VPN route label sharing, (4) Keyed IPV6 Tunnels. Potentially relevant to L2TPEXT. Also another draft,
implementation survey in IESG (not on slide). Another not on slide, just received a liaison from ITU on P2MP applications
which will present in meeting. Stewart - commented - good to get others as shepherd as don't need to be a chair. Can help
train individual for future wg chair responsibilites and help to be more responsive with ADs and IESG.

Roll (Adrian) - Not meeting. since last meeting, some progress on resolving the IESG/Directorate review comments on
security threats document and trickle multicast. Documents still being worked on. The p2p documents are now in RFC
Editor queue. The applicability statements continue to be slow, but one set of authors has returned from the dead,
and have started againt to make progress. A second applicability statement could, depending upon IESG opinion and
BOF results, move to a 6tsch group.

RTGWG (Alvaro) - Couple of drafts waiting for final approvals, hope this week. Another draft sent for publication.
Going to meet friday. Mostly MRT topics, multicast, LDP, RSVP.

SIDR (Sandy) - Meets twice, Wednesday and Friday. Four drafts in publication request, WG LC ongoing for one, two new
drafts. No new hot spots. What are next steps?  Progress for threats, origin-ops, rpki-rtr-impl, cps. What help needed?
Nothing needed. What overlap with other WGs?  Related work in idr and grow.

STATUS BoF (Alvaro) - Use cases presented - IPv6, a solution on segment routing. very good agreement among
authors on how to proceed. Consensus on looking at IPv6 operation. No stong consensus how to do work - wg, etc.

Adrian - Had two BOFs this time, thanks to the chairs, as short notice. Delivered what we needed.
Stewart - Cut off for next meeting on BOFs is middle of Sept. So be sure to look for those requests when you return
from vacation in August.

AQM (Wes and Richard)
---------------------
BoF later this afternoon, in Transport Area. As agenda conflicts with other Routing WGs wanted to introduce here.
Reviewed slides.
Acee - As you know the tradeoffs for the data plane are quite different than control plane. Are you looking at that?
Wes- we are looking at different alogrithms - forwarding plane vs control plane. Not come up yet, but will definitely
consider. Have mailing list, can you send something? Mostly doing now the forwarding plane.

Continued to present slides. Desired outputs - Informational and Best current Practices. And some algorithm
specifications.

Adrian - We wanted this shown as the work will need to involve hardware engineers involved in the design of routers.
IETF is protocol folks. We were thinking folks here can go home and ask their hardware folks to pay attention.
stewart - Critical as don't want to waste time here and also good for Internet.
Acee - Even though OSPF is quite robust for single adjacencies, when multiple adjacencies, more problems. But depends
on use cases and applications, how trying to use.
Stewart - Will different applicaitons, need different queueing structures in router?
Acee - Exactly, that's multi instance. And what's running on TCP.

MANIAC Challenge 2013 (Emmanuel)
--------------------------------
Adrian - This ocurred the weekend before IETF.
Emmanuel presented the slides.
Adrian - What protocols looking at?
Emmanuel - Manet and OSPF. Nothing though for large scale MANETs. Not sure why.
Acee - I think good work doing. Think rather opportumistic to think people will sell back their bandwidth back to
operators. Did you read the Science American article when South America tried to shut down.
Emmanuel - It's a foot in the door.
Acee - But in most countries, bandwidth is sold at very high price and owned by a few people.
Emmanuel - That's what we are worried about - want more (free) bandwidth. People using these type of networks have
installed their own fiber on top of their wireless networks. There are non-profit phone companies. A future for users
selling back bandwidth to operators? Maybe e.g if get a discount.
? - These mesh networks are happening now, in Europe.
Adrian - I'd personally like to see more interop events pushing the boundaries of our protocols. I know there are
proper interop labs doing it for business but would be good around IETF meetings.
 
Other business
--------------
Adrian - Showed slide. Opportunistic routing couldn't come - welcome to read and make comments. Mentor program is
IETF wide - go and subscribe on link. Now an RFC on adding implementation status to your draft. Now to go in RFC,
for helping WG to look at spec. It's optional but a good idea.



Open Discussion
---------------

Adrian - People have said, it would be great to have our meeting on Monday morning. But every area wants to do that,
so can not happen. Is it useful to go thru status like we do, what can do for more coordination?
Jeff - Slides for WG status should be done before meeting and not done in meeting. On slide - it would be good to have
a brief discussion of what is happening at this meeting and status of work.
Hans - Be good on monday.
Adrian - Could you do this by Friday before meetings?
Loa - Not sure for doing before meeting when I'm very busy preparing for meeting.
Adrian - Can prepare 3 weeks before.
Loa - If want status going into meeting? Three weeks before is not status.
John - I agree, we should prepare this as it's work doing anyway, especially for Friday.
stewart - Does this make meetings more effective? Then it's worth doing.
John - Don't see making my meeting more effective, helps maybe someone else.
Stewart - Then makes your meeting more effective.
? - Maybe wiki - I'd be willing to do.
Hans - I treat as need to pay attention, not necessarily wiki.
Ross - I could go to the WG Web's page, and spend time and effort, without a Routing Area meeting. But not everyone has
that type of time. This meeting has that I can see a slide here, make a note to look at, so when I get home, I can check
on it. So it's useful as it's an easy way to find out. Not sure a wiki will be the answer. I think not needing to do by
friday, we can give a better update than what can do on friday as have more info.
Adrian - In this room, are we really interested in how many RFCs published, etc.? More interest in here's a hot topic,
what crosses Working Groups.
Ross - Just saying more rfcs etc, it would be better to have an actual list.
Matt H. - I'm new, I do appreciate the WG chairs putting a slide together. knowing RFCs etc, is not so interesting.
Want to know what work is going on.
John S. - Posting stuff ahead of time is ok, but there's alot of info available. This format of coming to the mike
forces us to be brief, I think that's valuable. And it gives new and old people, an idea who the WG chairs are.
George - It may be better to say which drafts intersect with other groups and say explicitly the names of what they do.
Acee - Go along with George, limit status. As we are goal oriented, we focus too much on RFCs etc, what did. We should
focus on what we are doing and how it goes along with what other groups are doing. And it forces us to get all together.
Adrian - Good, if have other ideas let us know.