From craemer@isoc.org Fri Feb 15 10:27:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFD821F8821 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:27:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.264 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.264 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQwJkWzubGXz for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp137.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp137.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.137]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5F121F8870 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp30.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 55B6A348296; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:27:22 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp30.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: craemer-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id 09BC13483FB; Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:27:21 -0500 (EST) From: Kevin Craemer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-427-393552011 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 13:27:21 -0500 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:27:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail-427-393552011 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content is King; How Do we Avoid Playing the Pauper? This is the topic of the Internet Society briefing panel scheduled for = IETF 86 in Orlando on Tuesday, 12 March, 11:45am to 12:45pm. Below is = more information on the topic and registration for those of you = interested in attending. The Internet has stimulated innovation through disruption in any number = of areas, not the least of which is redefining what it means to be a = "publisher" -- of written, audio, video or other content. As everyone = -- people, for- and not-for-profit businesses alike -- becomes a = publisher, what are the next steps needed in order to ensure that = content is treated as its creator desires. That may mean restricted = use, or facilitating widespread use. This is not new -- when the first = anonFTP indexer was created (Archie), it surprised some authors who = thought they were sharing private draft copies of their manuscript on an = FTP site. On the flip side, every now and then a photo or a video "goes = viral" on the Internet generating interest and awareness beyond the = creator's capacity to track it. Are there ways that Internet application layer infrastructure standards = could be extended to capture the content creator's intentions of use of = digital content, to be as open or as restricted as that creator desires? What are the building blocks from which that could start? Of course, expressing rights is one thing, enforcement of respecting = rights is another. In the interest of having a constructive 1 hour = discussion, the focus in this session will be on maximizing the creative = opportunities for digital content in the Internet environment by = enabling greater facility to express and extend rights intended by = content creators. Moderator: Leslie Daigle, Internet Society Information on panelists will be posted at: https://www.internetsociety.org/internet-society-briefing-panel-ietf-86 Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet Society panel events, = we are providing you with advance information on registration. Online = registration will open in two time blocks to account for the broad range = of home timezones of IETF participants. Half of the available seats = will open for registration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The = other half will be made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration = form link at the webpage above at these times. For those unable to attend, we plan to provide a live (and archived) = audiocast, information on which will also be available at the above = webpage. Information and audio archives for past Internet Society panels can be = found online at: = http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/internet-technology-matters/open= -internet-standards/briefing-panels Kevin Craemer Senior Events Manager Internet Society craemer@isoc.org --Apple-Mail-427-393552011 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Are there ways = that Internet application layer infrastructure standards could be = extended to capture the content creator's intentions of use of digital = content, to be as open or as restricted as that creator = desires?

What are the building blocks from = which that could start?

Of course, expressing = rights is one thing, enforcement of respecting rights is another. =  In the interest of having a constructive 1 hour discussion, the = focus in this session will be on maximizing the creative opportunities = for digital content in the Internet environment by enabling greater = facility to express and extend rights intended by content = creators.

Moderator:
Leslie = Daigle, Internet Society

Information on = panelists will be posted at:

Due to high demand for limited seating = at Internet Society panel events, we are providing you with advance = information on registration. Online registration will open in two time = blocks to account for the broad range of home timezones of IETF = participants.  Half of the available seats will open for = registration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The other half will = be made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration form link at the = webpage above at these times.

For those unable = to attend, we plan to provide a live (and archived) audiocast, = information on which will also be available at the above = webpage.

Information and audio archives for = past Internet Society panels can be found online = at:

Kevin Craemer
Senior = Events Manager
Internet Society

= = --Apple-Mail-427-393552011-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Feb 18 10:55:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021B521F8856 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:55:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05nbAjy35+eJ for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A93221F87AB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.129.24.65] (unknown [128.107.239.234]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C6EA403CD for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:03:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:55:41 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:55:52 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at the meeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as sub-optimal? ;-) Peter P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to IETF 86, only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w =YMk0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Mon Feb 18 11:04:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CE721F8A56 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:04:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdVTMobSLLoU for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CAC921F8971 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7f926d000000e79-8b-51227b3993c9 Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 84.5A.03705.93B72215; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:04:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:04:25 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Peter Saint-Andre , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmaJgqUotW8ZESSn711ETQCxph/+AFA Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:04:24 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlK5ltVKgweduY4tT0/tZLI7t6Wd2 YPJYsuQnk8fcPS+YA5iiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDJmf3MoWMZfMWfdG7YGxuO8XYycHBICJhLf X/5lgrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwhFFi8fqbrBDOckaJaUuXsYFUsQkYSbzY2MMOYosIREvsnHye FcQWFtCUeHLtGCNEXEvi78SLbBC2kcSJrgNgcRYBVYk1k5tZQGxeAW+JbZvXgtlCQL0nrh8H msnBwQnU2zghAyTMCHTQ91NrwI5jFhCXuPVkPtShAhJL9pxnhrBFJV4+/scKYStLfJ/ziAWi Xkdiwe5PbBC2tsSyha+ZIdYKSpyc+YRlAqPoLCRjZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsYOUqLU8ty040M NzECY+GYBJvjDsYFnywPMUpzsCiJ84a6XggQEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwGhj Hxv4aoHOsZlXNf70pW/OSfUTFJuw42Rs+hs+1yi7lwd0rYNWvvVaW2wt56Zx6sGd9LL4JZPi gh9P2vlMtzBG9NeczljxFZuitU4e+2DgqRGTqJr2wPnz73QTLq+6AnOpdGMlNkG1s9a/C79e PuvE4ftqQc6k+2VR32r+2M+ufHiD//F9OyWW4oxEQy3mouJEAJm+SW9TAgAA Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:04:27 -0000 Hi, Yes, it is not the best location for alternative lodging. I've found that w= hen was told last Thursday that not only IETF quota is empty but the hotel = and its sister resort are both completely booked. I've booked at Blue Heron= which is about a mile walk. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:56 AM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at the m= eeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as sub-optimal? ;-) Peter P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to IETF 86, = only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w =3DYMk0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From jimmie.rodgers@ericsson.com Mon Feb 18 11:30:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C91821F8B02 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBHzu9LZK9D1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFE421F8AD4 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:30:07 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7f926d000000e79-e0-5122813e1b17 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C6.1C.03705.E3182215; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:30:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:30:06 -0500 From: Jimmie Rodgers To: Gregory Mirsky Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmavJ6vHfVltUOhgx8jKiWHKpiATUYA//+zXHc= Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:30:05 +0000 Message-ID: <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn659o1KgwcEl3BanpvezWBzb08/s wOSxZMlPJo+5e14wBzBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGU8vutbsFeo4tvqT8wNjK0CXYwcHBICJhKX lzh3MXICmWISF+6tZ+ti5OIQEjjCKPHwzFUoZzmjxKpFl5hAqtgEjCQWb/3NAmKLCBhI3F62 nBnEZhaIlpj48zY7iC0soCmx8O9TNogaLYm/Ey9C2VYSs6ddA6thEVCVmPf9FiuIzStgL9H3 7iNYjZBApsTd64fAdnEK+Ejcun2YEcRmBLru+6k1TBC7xCVuPZnPBHG1gMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP /7FC1OhILNj9iQ3C1pZYtvA1M8QuQYmTM5+wTGAUnYVk1CwkLbOQtMxC0rKAkWUVI0dpcWpZ brqR4SZGYCwck2Bz3MG44JPlIUZpDhYlcd5Q1wsBQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODil Ghg7jRbvviVy2vvz6s8hPrkMgTyxyb0bjnxITP8j7Vi0POVdv/uLSkadHQ6ieq3T6lTcwrv5 f5uv7IwQ2Se5o07Mfm7JqZzj31xUmf7fO70/rOK9fdShPep2RZMVnP5vizzt3ex+4d6q0vVN xvy3fKIWJ73NNp966ITo3wc/J7xe9Om/3YEq2W9KLMUZiYZazEXFiQDCx8PhUwIAAA== Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:30:08 -0000 I am at the Radisson=20 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 18, 2013, at 2:04 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" = wrote: > Hi, > Yes, it is not the best location for alternative lodging. I've found that= when was told last Thursday that not only IETF quota is empty but the hote= l and its sister resort are both completely booked. I've booked at Blue Her= on which is about a mile walk. >=20 > Regards, > Greg >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:56 AM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at the= meeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as sub-optimal? ;-= ) >=20 > Peter >=20 > P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to IETF 86= , only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >=20 > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O > pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee > OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi > Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R > rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw > MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ > UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 > mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df > 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg > ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ > IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 > n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w > =3DYMk0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 11:50:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A236921F8943 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:50:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bfttAvEqu-Xi for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29D2521F8C3E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1IJob0R030011 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:50:37 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r1IJob0R030011 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=200903; t=1361217037; bh=4aRbgVbw56yU6QtcQiOv6OlGO0U=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=cf22CLh9ayloiNnHetkw4s6Z7nk9pxi71EXmA+vehzZ+4/dPABy3vE+I0+16azwTY 8KnKiYFeRPbJONSim850j5VuVBwGPGY+er+vIzWgPifOCWK4PsAZn0JMAuGrSVrudS X+0m8IC5i22gl4UIKBH0+aicg2M4MVwjhq8raWVQ= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p1HJob0430627151pK ret-id none; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:50:37 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.102] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1IJnIlV029948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:49:18 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:49:20 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p1HJob043062715100; tid=p1HJob0430627151pK; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r1IJob0R030011 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:50:42 -0000 So are we in an out-of-town venue? Tim On 18 Feb 2013, at 19:30, Jimmie Rodgers = wrote: > I am at the Radisson=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Feb 18, 2013, at 2:04 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" = wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >> Yes, it is not the best location for alternative lodging. I've found = that when was told last Thursday that not only IETF quota is empty but = the hotel and its sister resort are both completely booked. I've booked = at Blue Heron which is about a mile walk. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Greg >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:56 AM >> To: 86attendees@ietf.org >> Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels >>=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >>=20 >> The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at = the meeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as = sub-optimal? ;-) >>=20 >> Peter >>=20 >> P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to = IETF 86, only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... >>=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >>=20 >> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O >> pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee >> OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi >> Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R >> rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw >> MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ >> UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 >> mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df >> 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg >> ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ >> IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 >> n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w >> =3DYMk0 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Mon Feb 18 11:54:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE8921F8BD1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:54:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vtb9NAN2BLvr for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcagg.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4D721F8B61 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE921B4061 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:54:23 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=KDlHanxvLvOj2sXqFNvYayFmMrYUP9MXGa4+i3UTY0tOfx6mPdcHNB/0QopZ cineR6cVUq4ouRFa/D5U0uaYn2Z93w1f1rp7ED7wFvxH6ZocwXBYgMtbmBPZy30n wUVEBYiS14gF0HUMNelUlCXfA7Dyi6BlZ3F/HyaSTSXjJL4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=bKE3FT/a8f7yCSjC2WvLessqIQE=; b=B1ND2BsyPzWv0 NLnO7xqXF2kZX1siyDxJgZ4uts2LUUIhSyiiW9q+PHvAaJazX2ZIMtsr6nL3I70O +8MJU914dind6hsyOEWwR9CH7YpNNH180L6cnroFmG+F3PyZzYqLe0eUBTWZazmd 58pLFG05pUtwL4LdqQaXfYgqftnODY= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4C21D1B405F for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:54:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:54:21 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:54:25 -0000 On 2/18/13 10:49 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > So are we in an out-of-town venue? We're in a hellish suburban desert. (I'm good with being in a hellish suburban desert as long as we can get work done.) Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From ynir@checkpoint.com Mon Feb 18 11:56:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AF1621F8C74 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:56:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dhKHMbPd3E2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553D921F8C72 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1IJuHfi003916; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:56:17 +0200 X-CheckPoint: {512282F5-0-1B221DC2-2FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.54]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.95]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:56:17 +0200 From: Yoav Nir To: Gregory Mirsky Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmc3DG3hsAEYEOoyDIf2YFsA5h/1+0AgAAOfYA= Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:56:15 +0000 Message-ID: <984303BA-E2D9-47CF-8EC3-AA98E96F6479@checkpoint.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.21.69] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:56:22 -0000 Hi I'm at the same place, but looking in Google Earth, there's no sidewalk all= the way. There's a path that goes behind the Caribe, which looks to have = a sidewalk all the way, but that's actually a supplier's entrance, so you c= an walk the back road, in between the Caribe's dumpsters, by some service b= uildings, and into the conference resort. Or you can walk where there's no = sidewalk, which should be muddy, because it rains a lot. Or you can rent a = car to drive a single mile back and forth. Yoav On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:04 PM, Gregory Mirsky wrote: > Hi, > Yes, it is not the best location for alternative lodging. I've found that= when was told last Thursday that not only IETF quota is empty but the hote= l and its sister resort are both completely booked. I've booked at Blue Her= on which is about a mile walk. >=20 > Regards, > Greg >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:56 AM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at the= meeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as sub-optimal? ;-= ) >=20 > Peter >=20 > P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to IETF 86= , only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >=20 > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O > pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee > OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi > Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R > rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw > MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ > UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 > mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df > 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg > ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ > IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 > n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w > =3DYMk0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > Email secured by Check Point From prvs=17612170fe=jordi.palet@consulintel.es Mon Feb 18 12:02:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6721621F87B6 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:02:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkoIt-goItGf for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [213.172.48.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBE821F8835 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:02:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1361217151; x=1361821951; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding: Reply-To; bh=h7o2FPp5FgoBfI02gTxnMhWdhErlVgUnQUc3yFEtqYQ=; b=gan CI2PFjaNlcdQg5NjrZ4ZB2TkdqXnqQZCYn0fYDYq0z+Lx1HcklIS0nf2925Hl6lo AqILNq95eIXKUBUK433qUgFEybYllzSleK/mkd+KpgXWdySmWq6PCURfpMCKRbKf IK1Mb1iqp9lpO+j6f0MyKXeUs6E1zPm67pdkPw80= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=SkSYAopWqJrdtI9Aj2z5uWFGe1wH/A/DhViCH99T0PzfmHwb5Amc28NFNcKv ipdaF0QFNkSNNDdDjhajDIhmXVec8ILkyUrN9ShLd90IIDUVu6FR04ZmK VRiWjizoVgNEcngOchCo2ZDSeedYi9OUnw/LqIkmORI4EJIHb24TJY=; X-MDAV-Processed: consulintel.es, Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:52:31 +0100 Received: from [10.10.10.104] by consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50004339916.msg for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:52:30 +0100 X-Spam-Processed: consulintel.es, Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:52:30 +0100 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDPtrLookup-Result: pass dns.ptr=12.175.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es (ip=87.221.175.12) (consulintel.es) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:130218:md50004339916::qSN84/N5SPh37phU:00005E00 X-MDRemoteIP: 87.221.175.12 X-Return-Path: prvs=17612170fe=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: 86attendees@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.1.130117 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:27 +0100 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels In-Reply-To: <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:02:55 -0000 As in other occasions, we were told not to go anymore to an isolate location, no backup hotels, I guess no walking distance meal choices =8A An this is only in order to be at the same location as the IEEE meeting venue ? =20 This is wrong, very wrong, it is an expensive location to travel, a very problematic immigration airport for most of us (Miami, it took to me several times more than 3 hours and even passing thru 3 different questioning checks), and other cheaper locations in Europe got rejected, even with sponsorship from the government in the line of 150.000 euros, such as Madrid. Thanks (sarcastically) for a very good job. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: Jimmie Rodgers Responder a: Fecha: lunes, 18 de febrero de 2013 20:30 Para: Gregory Mirsky CC: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre Asunto: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels >I am at the Radisson > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Feb 18, 2013, at 2:04 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: > >> Hi, >> Yes, it is not the best location for alternative lodging. I've found >>that when was told last Thursday that not only IETF quota is empty but >>the hotel and its sister resort are both completely booked. I've booked >>at Blue Heron which is about a mile walk. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Greg >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org >>[mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 10:56 AM >> To: 86attendees@ietf.org >> Subject: [86attendees] back-up hotels >>=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >>=20 >> The Caribe Royale is booked and there are no back-up hotels listed at >>the meeting website. Does this situation strike anyone else as >>sub-optimal? ;-) >>=20 >> Peter >>=20 >> P.S. https://www.ietf.org/meeting/email-list.html has no links to IETF >>86, only 85. I've pinged the Secretariat about that... >>=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >>=20 >> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRInktAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pUCgP/0ADVrULaqPutxENstKHKt7O >> pDSVY9CLQfZdTHW/4tdcEbm/ytjg0XzP3j/688GmnabjP7kzCpk2OHl4TW+yYbee >> OGBUzF+VnFXHAQnTuQu/RKmM/mdfjomyzGrcBTcJHKf7CbuOOzpE5lcvR0JDaRoi >> Ip2IxtkGbMDodHcKd5Dr7mH15i7G6K3v1c1kks9jolcZDyyWQARHvbm1obvMzB6R >> rEbOwIHko42E5b8dNPXiJ4dMi5CjVhNjTWwwozAo52KIrxvMk+9ly+Cibvbde7sw >> MIT04hqg8A0Y1yo2Xs66k+sfd0pLw+iSj1BZFJZjrkb/SbaUCer5RTAOGt0pBf8+ >> UAetOIn+GNUnEIaf6buhEXzSJLqI4Db827YzZfvLy4emXcx7H3c2rSvq1ze28x40 >> mLq4LluPyb+ZjmWGZZCPa/cRSvuKePtNX7tm7wUjvhUWh5HqmWJEsJP4alYw20df >> 5A/4HyvvUHngY2w1P8gORCgCuwlEazUQxzhmBniHZeXVCSsNYmilWaBI0paS87vg >> ACKn2E98Cu7n1HTKRLGb6XIwId20bOwEOxZkqfWf8iONnsUUIO+SamPnZPaA56z/ >> IucaIvP0nW9DZYBvXtUaZIh5CpUSu4YhXJUUm8y0Fj6V1Vw78QA3DEExrZafOVt7 >> n+8wA7CEzTepinafdE5w >> =3DYMk0 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >_______________________________________________ >86attendees mailing list >86attendees@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. 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From weiler+ietf@watson.org Mon Feb 18 12:37:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC6C21F8C87 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:37:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pDd65kbQj85M for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:37:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282EF21F8CA7 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:37:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1IKaTr9028937; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:36:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id r1IKaTR1028934; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:36:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:36:29 -0500 (EST) From: Samuel Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@fledge.watson.org To: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:36:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:37:07 -0000 On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > So are we in an out-of-town venue? Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful. Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. With that said, there are a variety of lodging choices at a variety of prices within a sane driving distance. Taxi fares are also sane, though you may have trouble finding a driver that wants to turn on his meter, instead preferring to negotiate a flat fare. -- Sam From yding@cs.helsinki.fi Mon Feb 18 12:41:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AAC321F8AFE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:41:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aqcr9+EB-RWl for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:41:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68CC21F8C1A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.214.9.154] (wel-33.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.154]) (AUTH: PLAIN yding, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:41:51 +0200 id 0008C5E0.5122920F.000022D7 Message-ID: <51229209.1050406@cs.helsinki.fi> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:41:45 +0200 From: Aaron Yi DING Organization: Helsinki University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel Weiler References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:41:54 -0000 On 18/02/13 22:36, Samuel Weiler wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even > if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- > you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. > If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay > the cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free > and appears to be plentiful. > > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the > Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three > stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. > > With that said, there are a variety of lodging choices at a variety of > prices within a sane driving distance. Taxi fares are also sane, > though you may have trouble finding a driver that wants to turn on his > meter, instead preferring to negotiate a flat fare. > How much would be a reasonable deal for taxi drive from airport to Caribe Royale? Cheers, Aaron > -- Sam > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From swb@internet2.edu Mon Feb 18 12:42:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6127E21F8AFE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:42:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vv22JcTB85UM for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (tx2ehsobe002.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C552B21F8835 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:42:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail34-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.238) by TX2EHSOBE008.bigfish.com (10.9.40.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:29 +0000 Received: from mail34-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail34-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0618B2C0114; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.101; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BY2PRD0810HT005.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 1 X-BigFish: S1(zzbb2dI98dIzz1f42h1d77h1ee6h1de0h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1082kzzz2dh2a8h668h839h947hd25he5bhf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h1765h18e1h190ch1946h19b4h19c3h19ceh1155h) Received: from mail34-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail34-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1361220146509890_7856; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.248]) by mail34-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A0B3A0087; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0810HT005.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.101) by TX2EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (10.9.99.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:26 +0000 Received: from swbi2mbp.local (67.241.75.185) by pod51019.outlook.com (10.255.94.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.263.1; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5122922D.1080600@internet2.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:42:21 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel Weiler References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [67.241.75.185] X-OriginatorOrg: internet2.edu Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:42:30 -0000 On 02/18/13 15:36, Samuel Weiler allegedly wrote: > Even > if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you > will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. fyi Fox Rentacar gave me a pretty good deal the last time I was in Elmira. > If you > rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash > tolls on the highways. All of the rental cars come with automatic toll tags, but there is a daily charge for using them (in addition to the toll itself). swb From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Feb 18 12:43:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8A721F8C74 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:43:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycwYQGHucBAK for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9747121F8C1A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.129.24.65] (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE131403CD; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:50:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <51229264.7070808@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:43:16 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Samuel Weiler References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:43:24 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2/18/13 1:36 PM, Samuel Weiler wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. > Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a > car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site > for meals. If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US > currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the > Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful. > > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the > Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes > three stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. > > With that said, there are a variety of lodging choices at a variety > of prices within a sane driving distance. Taxi fares are also > sane, though you may have trouble finding a driver that wants to > turn on his meter, instead preferring to negotiate a flat fare. We might want to do a better job of adding travel/lodgin information to the particpants' wiki so that ride sharing is a possibility. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpJkAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pxcQP/i4nUdIsdcvjJ9v1M9sUv5cN 5+mVpuRI0ZS9bxYcYlWU/fDJDq5F7h82HWJGOQojqzvicregeuWyQI6gO91yVkCu 0rrrID/0gKgFfe9WGjZfHYxyg7at4fgKrdHhDu6v8TwVHinQloOsXG3bo4YKFAxK ZyQY8x/xdF6wH90N87/T26ftProtqeKKXDkIl5R77fuEUvdmvyDOMhqVMDhx07JG IM0t7FQIy8M4FHbCK4A/Tz2bd/0wfu41KQnTc2gwkSz6AvNbjOeJWOduroalC9Ls Qa/bCAqPdaOVKfYlUAod2PSjEORINEAwMfO3FgFB85tPgcGImbL6Av+biimBwUB4 RdurPXZuO3b1oEOW9BcE3qNpR+OysrLU9w7TNk3TlTPSV9Uq9yw3MC+qAqvI1roe ur1EsnYR/4RCL1YrSYo5t7+WFIB95mx+jNPyfPMKf2GyPVQGin5RVKFfR1NWQMAw TT05KrkJfZAYvmKCZiFufm61c7qTfIcF70EFB7wj+pNG28uTCCg3AoC+XUgbspP+ em8I/lgTUZMvJ4Gxt6QeNh6uaffWbec9p7fkyAbh93AXZbXu8coZFqbAEq64F8/E af51IGd4QOmSESkjNN+xKUS7ZtQ7i+h0mLkOfjMbFikdcc5rbp1F4qo3H0RRa6Xi Umegc5Vn7wTE007/e6F0 =mcY4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Feb 18 13:05:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564EC21F8CA8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:05:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xB3sH1uDn4Hh for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDCC21F8C9E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.129.24.65] (unknown [128.107.239.234]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1249B403CD; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:12:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <51229798.5020207@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:05:28 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BRigsB@ieee.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <002d01ce0e1a$56afe670$040fb350$@net> In-Reply-To: <002d01ce0e1a$56afe670$040fb350$@net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, "Everett O. \(Buzz\) Rigsbee" Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:05:33 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2/18/13 1:55 PM, Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee wrote: > Hi Peter, I suggest you try the Buena Vista Suites, a sister > property to the Caribe Royale that is located immediately next door > (easy walk back & forth) and they do offer free breakfasts. Our > 802 guys like them a lot. Thanks. I actually booked elsewhere, but that looks like a good choice. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpeYAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pdlwQAJg3RoKC/BcaEkK/9ODY+wQY FoyZCUaDjr7+iVhknwcuAm2PwpfOiPFKgchqScqt8j71gBOsNfeuyhXr2TshrMir dQ/rnotwJjC+bfNzELuofbATRFBgi6yNBmyBzYYogTCyUlHOmAMGLzrZAjdhIGT1 +nZuup9roxt+ScHRiMV4Toirs82yPiLDVZfVTdIPyzP+Qw+GkxMTkbNLo+QuKtrk 1nGE9V/xR7Mf1sMbnpc8BXl2D2W/VrWzdtBSGmhI3nssOEoS91l9SShGAONRyDT/ Rt5cbyP6DKFTT7m0eusQc5kTCHYTGONZwoQAA3k1ez2G0yE/lpXEbw1oeOpQkc6m gFGxLcF2WYRl151ymqJRC1LWBD8KJ8OiIzoI/Dd5jbkZEqI7SzXsByrrWNWFgANc bVKfeo1g0Us1V086AY/UYtq3b5G8wt/+AF0GPfdcM/2TXEYPxf/uorah5Xo5trqL y9XwaRG+mFTHw+OSWx3e9OtICg+TtYAohTtdrMaHRoVj2dql1NcHkOwd5U3q9v4Y M6lfQ63hSA5uNRoZwfGmVRn12FMnbbSGvw75/E89FTiJ/6uVyuCaGHhFpYOPapOD T7Yh32cZqmFErc9Jg7DsQIn2inHF3ODqErikCDr7aSqRAJGs8VDaCSccnUIpFDjb jR5TozbRxAw3mgB1WETA =mDA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 13:26:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380DE21F8C17 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:26:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUz6qziteQV9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD3921F86CE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1ILQ0q9020731 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:26:00 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r1ILQ0q9020731 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=200903; t=1361222761; bh=7ppUv5/Z/JoUYkrDbDINYKz6UPk=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=trxKBX1MpTzJXEk5vmJm1Vaws8gQezds3lwB8Yz38WEUQ7I98YuIiyB+GoNHIXWdn SrZ7zAOBIbBXtdJghKQzKBx/Fk2zsHeZD/UUEVAKEImu22JzclwPh7B6eZ6OqJ4OIq VeHh4gEx5H4oQ9nRR+Py3ImdvmjcyuT3BRceewEM= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p1HLQ00430628038Ar ret-id none; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:26:00 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.102] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1ILOfMo007135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:24:42 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:24:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p1HLQ0043062803800; tid=p1HLQ00430628038Ar; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r1ILQ0q9020731 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:26:21 -0000 On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: >=20 >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? >=20 > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even = if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you = will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you = rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash = tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears = to be plentiful. >=20 > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the = Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three = stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where = good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car = suggests something's gone rather wrong. Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of = nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, = Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, = talk and dine/drink nearby? Tim= From akatlas@gmail.com Mon Feb 18 13:40:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364C921F8C5C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gZbw+ltixrzt for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ia0-x235.google.com (ia-in-x0235.1e100.net [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861F321F8C50 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ia0-f181.google.com with SMTP id e16so5172348iaa.26 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=YEYMDF2sUBrCtfDeVhP6sSX4qewogMBcyAElX2SYEj8=; b=j2ih4V87eK87WwnUqR1baIMnp9K+Tx9uJ0CkCyrsVUDKYe524sbDJD7UhWTL6mZ3Gj g4bgbs9vSFhhvflsG3RO2JZJh2GWV//7AxPfPvcrH3XnckWwXxY2bsUGHrtvTt+fTssT dqvVJk0EVBCLHtP9JpaPQAdGMJvmsM2C4kMVLXyn6yx4vHBdSPO1vlnNO2X66JcZnSPp wBRsh8fRnl9pxwHtayjGOWsuM2t1cYawwBW+yvgjiNnLDHHkbo2upQTqQnyfH8dpvRI1 ZsPwRe62zce/GrKb7maxKwtXOT5Y+Urj3Uu/JH+XSenr1vcFOtQQQkbC8G7bkd+ux2dW NXEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.56.141 with SMTP id a13mr7652384igq.24.1361223635094; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.34.203 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:40:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:40:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: Tim Chown Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0401f53d3acde504d6069371 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:40:36 -0000 --f46d0401f53d3acde504d6069371 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I think it goes to Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds). On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tim Chown wrote: > > On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler wrote: > > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > > > >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > > > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even > if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you > will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you > rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash > tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to > be plentiful. > > > > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the > Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops > a day -- one northbound and two southbound. > > This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where > good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car > suggests something's gone rather wrong. > > Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of > nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, > Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, talk > and dine/drink nearby? > > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > --f46d0401f53d3acde504d6069371 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I think it goes to= Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds). =A0

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.s= oton.ac.uk> wrote:

On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler <weiler+ietf@watson.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote:
>
>> So are we in an out-of-town venue?
>
> Yes. =A0This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Ev= en if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you = will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. =A0If you = rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash tol= ls on the highways. =A0Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to = be plentiful.
>
> Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the Car= ibe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops a d= ay -- one northbound and two southbound.

This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where go= od amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car suggests = something's gone rather wrong.

Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of nowher= e. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, Vancouve= r, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, talk and din= e/drink nearby?

Tim
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--f46d0401f53d3acde504d6069371-- From ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com Mon Feb 18 14:57:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C885321E8039 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:57:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.444 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.154, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dmqPH7WafnJ2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f46.google.com (mail-qa0-f46.google.com [209.85.216.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B733C21E8040 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id o13so1548749qaj.12 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:57:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=zAgEd+/fH8svvCyrrh1Ij3X8lFmrCrikfuZ8w7p2dgk=; b=VqKH9ygPKrQxEoBLUAJhe9kw+Ef+QxeQsxGJWRk0v8o+bcZkIZJvD2jh/mi418bIBy 6v3UObPw8tMlguiAg2QjsEh4L0RSQj7X+nWAUw7rEE/+w2quONtQl99rJ9Vto4ThdQ1J GcV+LSQ25VmKi9Wyk6nJYOULA7WiBXgKCcWhGtdlmlw9h1jOpzGC62KsDAGNZr+8LDma iU2+0VWHzkLJLcWOYxa6lpF3Bb9eZMr/1/vH4LXyP+1btJSdKS2kMmxRj+wcTmdgt5nF 4rFcR6i8fZ8n4BTCnijlVOPm9lmWsvWlQW8QcSdMZN1mALykb3sVj4Kv2/17SbSk9gOG C5Cw== X-Received: by 10.49.24.135 with SMTP id u7mr6194869qef.4.1361228221067; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.213] (190-20-56-120.baf.movistar.cl. [190.20.56.120]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q5sm5845853qaz.2.2013.02.18.14.56.57 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:56:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC5DFAA6-19FD-448F-92F9-6B6B361260FF"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: John Bradley In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:56:25 -0300 Message-Id: <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Alia Atlas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlFtxP7vi6n4+cuCkhdGFYRijc7vrQ2/xi6pkMfimkfyjXN8yqRHdkMlISz2h0lWO2lhOVG Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Tim Chown Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:57:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC5DFAA6-19FD-448F-92F9-6B6B361260FF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7C5B54A1-D822-46EB-89C6-DC164E290768" --Apple-Mail=_7C5B54A1-D822-46EB-89C6-DC164E290768 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I strategically booked a hotel in Downtown Disney figuring I can get the = shuttle to the conference hotel. We shall see how well that works. The hotel I booked at was also full = but I managed to get a room based on my status. John B. On 2013-02-18, at 6:40 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: > There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I think it = goes to Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds). =20 >=20 > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tim Chown = wrote: >=20 > On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler = wrote: >=20 > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > > > >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > > > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. = Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- = you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If = you rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the = cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and = appears to be plentiful. > > > > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the = Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three = stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. >=20 > This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue = where good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a = car suggests something's gone rather wrong. >=20 > Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of = nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, = Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, = talk and dine/drink nearby? >=20 > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --Apple-Mail=_7C5B54A1-D822-46EB-89C6-DC164E290768 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 I = strategically booked a hotel in Downtown Disney figuring I can get the = shuttle to the conference hotel.

We shall see how = well that works.  The hotel I booked at was also full but I managed = to get a room based on my status.

John = B.

On 2013-02-18, at 6:40 PM, Alia Atlas = <akatlas@gmail.com> = wrote:

There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I = think it goes to Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds). =  

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 = PM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler <weiler+ietf@watson.org> = wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote:
>
>> So are we in an out-of-town venue?
>
> Yes.  This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly = long. Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a = car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for = meals.  If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US = currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways.  Parking at the = Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful.
>
> Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the = Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three = stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound.

This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where = good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car = suggests something's gone rather wrong.

Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of = nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, = Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, = talk and dine/drink nearby?

Tim
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

_______________________________________________
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86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

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dCBDQQICHlwwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAZMaFdLHCTp8YPr4uz8Jp9/BX4FTyMqPFMtYyS70m bnFwNqdKWk/LV8I/bxO9DfIyiQr/tfa1ZcDxQrqzr8uqd/AgMnHI7lK01ofWSicZfh5h99qyCeQT CFBPSdGFHulyNRlq6O9s8oeLyw5PlHmT3wBSp9Wq6T/snCESwzgs0UqUgJJYPkkZD74A0DBUvJ83 FigDg9d185Vd4b4hAYpJwboLGY4olDflZyVoIoDE8gATT8d3erLpYNsuR4NaJiGS3jP4Wcu1/ITx h4RQaavFh+lu3SxGRXrQTGoBpCmiwNuFJFgEFw7EGM4/SXPaJR1p2/ns7FlpGF7KMCKl/upI7wAA AAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_EC5DFAA6-19FD-448F-92F9-6B6B361260FF-- From ietf@rozanak.com Mon Feb 18 15:10:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A7521E8047 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nAGIoSq1Iey9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5C921E8042 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from kopoli (e179167152.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.167.152]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MDAEW-1U6Qj40wkm-00GYQf; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:10:26 -0500 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: "'John Bradley'" References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> In-Reply-To: <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:10:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CE0E35.822CE940" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEGygkLgYTLsDk0JDujXqBahKVpBgNCkrB2Amm5w/sCMt5sLwKBLYIKAj1zppcCDOCLoQGVvD3rApRoBGICSrabrJllx29g Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Hvwk/9btDFOXrJgnYuo60o96wix71DYPatk57WF13pV dUViFQb2NkGIbiJzePOF/u/hW/uzqdghLypukeg+j8vvmHUyRs 7sG3uIsL5oMx3VYIscLvYwQEyfF7hnTcI3r111OK7ry/qPcqUr YSvYB5uaawheWxQ4uKyn2cBfsMwUT1oA9T/acp0HLS8eBQcl98 Y/+VohBsEPcg01pyMtKf66CPFSY+YKnmXLpmZykc8DdfqxIYU1 WyscDFj480t4GXT3AcSTxHSdndQtuxrzIx3q0lAgv4vFBNOEko 8TLRdnsVIup57idjPDiCe7ybZdZmnTMiihozTx+AKTMVFbi2IC vIhLRI5jvT8i2Blq9Z20= Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:10:28 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CE0E35.822CE940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not understand why you are having problems finding and reserving a hotel. Check this website. You can filter it to find the closest hotel to the IETF venue. The following hotel is also good and within 25 minutes walking time to the venue. It still has rooms available. http://www.booking.com/hotel/us/holiday-inn-express-orlando-lake-buena-vista -east.html?tab=1&origin=hp&error_url=%2Fhotel%2Fus%2Fholiday-inn-express-orl ando-lake-buena-vista-east.en-gb.html%3Faid%3D357029%3Blabel%3Dpostbooking_c onfemail%3Bsid%3Da9501bfd0c2dbb0cfa3a02d812c9e1bb%3Bdcid%3D1%3B&do_availabil ity_check=on&aid=357029&dcid=1&label=postbooking_confemail&sid=a9501bfd0c2db b0cfa3a02d812c9e1bb&checkin_monthday=9&checkin_year_month=2013-3&checkout_mo nthday=15&checkout_year_month=2013-3#availability_target From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Bradley Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 11:56 PM To: Alia Atlas Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Tim Chown Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels I strategically booked a hotel in Downtown Disney figuring I can get the shuttle to the conference hotel. We shall see how well that works. The hotel I booked at was also full but I managed to get a room based on my status. John B. On 2013-02-18, at 6:40 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I think it goes to Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds). On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tim Chown wrote: On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler > wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: > >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful. > > Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car suggests something's gone rather wrong. Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, talk and dine/drink nearby? Tim _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CE0E35.822CE940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I do not understand why you are having problems finding and reserving = a hotel. Check this website. You can filter it to find the closest hotel = to the IETF venue. The following hotel is also good and within 25 = minutes walking time to the venue. It still has rooms = available.

http://www.booking.com/hotel/us/holiday-inn-express-orlando-lake-bu= ena-vista-east.html?tab=3D1&origin=3Dhp&error_url=3D%2Fhotel%2Fus= %2Fholiday-inn-express-orlando-lake-buena-vista-east.en-gb.html%3Faid%3D3= 57029%3Blabel%3Dpostbooking_confemail%3Bsid%3Da9501bfd0c2dbb0cfa3a02d812c= 9e1bb%3Bdcid%3D1%3B&do_availability_check=3Don&aid=3D357029&d= cid=3D1&label=3Dpostbooking_confemail&sid=3Da9501bfd0c2dbb0cfa3a0= 2d812c9e1bb&checkin_monthday=3D9&checkin_year_month=3D2013-3&= checkout_monthday=3D15&checkout_year_month=3D2013-3#availability_targ= et

 

 

From:= = 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of John Bradley
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 = 11:56 PM
To: Alia Atlas
Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; = Tim Chown
Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up = hotels

 

I = strategically booked a hotel in Downtown Disney figuring I can get the = shuttle to the conference hotel.

 

We shall see how well that works.  The hotel I = booked at was also full but I managed to get a room based on my = status.

 

John B.

 

On = 2013-02-18, at 6:40 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> = wrote:



There is a shuttle at the hotel also - = and at a minimum, I think it goes to Downtown Disney with lots of = restaurants (and crowds).  

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:


On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler <weiler+ietf@watson.org> = wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown = wrote:
>
>> So are we in an out-of-town = venue?
>
> Yes.  This area is suburban, and distances = are surprisingly long. Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I = suggest renting a car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to = go off-site for meals.  If you rent from the airport, remember to = get some US currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways. =  Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to be = plentiful.
>
> Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx = bus that stops at the Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort = (#304) only makes three stops a day -- one northbound and two = southbound.

This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at = an IETF venue where good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to = consider renting a car suggests something's gone rather = wrong.

Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the = middle of nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, = Minneapolis, Quebec, Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options = and places to meet, talk and dine/drink = nearby?

Tim
_______________________________________________
= 86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


_______________________________________________
= 86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

 

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CE0E35.822CE940-- From weiler+ietf@watson.org Mon Feb 18 15:29:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBEEE21E808F for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:29:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wf7HSVJCKo+Z for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4074C21E808E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from fledge.watson.org (localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1INTTFa042594; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:29:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id r1INTPpQ042580; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:29:29 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from weiler+ietf@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:29:25 -0500 (EST) From: Samuel Weiler X-X-Sender: weiler@fledge.watson.org To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="621616949-1662746588-1361228564=:26944" Content-ID: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:29:31 -0500 (EST) Cc: John Bradley Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:29:47 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --621616949-1662746588-1361228564=:26944 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-15; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: > There is a shuttle at the hotel also - and at a minimum, I think it > goes to Downtown Disney with lots of restaurants (and crowds).   The meeting wiki has a link to the Caribe Royale's shuttle schedule for February: http://www.ietf.org/registration/MeetingWiki/wiki/86sightseeing http://www.cariberoyale.com/media/1029317/cro_shuttle_schedule.pdf In February, there are (only) two shuttles per day to Downtown Disney and (only) one shuttle per day back to the hotel. There are additional shuttles to/from the theme parks, but there are no direct shuttles between Downtown Disney and the theme parks. FWIW, there is free parking at Downtown Disney. The theme parks charge $14/day. -- Sam --621616949-1662746588-1361228564=:26944-- From jon.hudson@gmail.com Mon Feb 18 15:41:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165A521F8CF3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.894 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.894 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.308, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3xXWPZ4qpw0Z for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f53.google.com (mail-da0-f53.google.com [209.85.210.53]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C974221F8CF1 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f53.google.com with SMTP id w3so2661664dad.40 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from :subject:date:to; bh=lXJ5pw65H0BivcakfgNTblqLI5EjGqWs9SFRS422J4Y=; b=ttOS/ISMLpe9YwIF+NRwkOOrkGbGyLyLwm8VwqtZmiUiFHVBMTbZYdTfLQeqLBHqKY qxXsbEw8HzhhHfhPSsQFa4QqYVnu2ciLRV8bV4u+UV7kKcoQKXOTDugJqIBlR/69IerZ WlS8/xQFNUR14PzILu5oHwcFnBUHbP3Gu5+OBVque8KddeZt9XlspYOLHn0TZiubcSqY 4GFkS86FxnUge+XSmYkxffhNK3L2Z1pNAqmcGtVzbYOXfZKF0hGO7VybfUQWLTJvz8Y4 Stxt75gzoJBEexnO3ylZ/tL1UzTxZTsr7gz5SLJru9YsEcquvFduEfrXpO0A9+Fbcafm 6Kyg== X-Received: by 10.66.78.1 with SMTP id x1mr40522993paw.2.1361230868418; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.11] (c-98-234-218-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.234.218.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pn9sm9032270pbb.22.2013.02.18.15.41.06 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:07 -0800 (PST) References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <002d01ce0e1a$56afe670$040fb350$@net> <51229798.5020207@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <51229798.5020207@stpeter.im> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-0822F129-4199-497D-9F17-42209490620E Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B143) From: Jon Hudson Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:41:06 -0800 To: Peter Saint-Andre Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, "Everett O. \(Buzz\) Rigsbee" , "BRigsB@ieee.org" Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:41:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail-0822F129-4199-497D-9F17-42209490620E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Buena Vista Suites is also booked Lake Buena Vista Spa Resort has openings and is probably closest at about .4= 9 miles away but is a 1.1 mile walk/drive due to route. On Feb 18, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > On 2/18/13 1:55 PM, Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee wrote: >> Hi Peter, I suggest you try the Buena Vista Suites, a sister >> property to the Caribe Royale that is located immediately next door >> (easy walk back & forth) and they do offer free breakfasts. Our >> 802 guys like them a lot. >=20 > Thanks. I actually booked elsewhere, but that looks like a good choice. >=20 > Peter >=20 > - --=20 > Peter Saint-Andre > https://stpeter.im/ >=20 >=20 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ >=20 > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpeYAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pdlwQAJg3RoKC/BcaEkK/9ODY+wQY > FoyZCUaDjr7+iVhknwcuAm2PwpfOiPFKgchqScqt8j71gBOsNfeuyhXr2TshrMir > dQ/rnotwJjC+bfNzELuofbATRFBgi6yNBmyBzYYogTCyUlHOmAMGLzrZAjdhIGT1 > +nZuup9roxt+ScHRiMV4Toirs82yPiLDVZfVTdIPyzP+Qw+GkxMTkbNLo+QuKtrk > 1nGE9V/xR7Mf1sMbnpc8BXl2D2W/VrWzdtBSGmhI3nssOEoS91l9SShGAONRyDT/ > Rt5cbyP6DKFTT7m0eusQc5kTCHYTGONZwoQAA3k1ez2G0yE/lpXEbw1oeOpQkc6m > gFGxLcF2WYRl151ymqJRC1LWBD8KJ8OiIzoI/Dd5jbkZEqI7SzXsByrrWNWFgANc > bVKfeo1g0Us1V086AY/UYtq3b5G8wt/+AF0GPfdcM/2TXEYPxf/uorah5Xo5trqL > y9XwaRG+mFTHw+OSWx3e9OtICg+TtYAohTtdrMaHRoVj2dql1NcHkOwd5U3q9v4Y > M6lfQ63hSA5uNRoZwfGmVRn12FMnbbSGvw75/E89FTiJ/6uVyuCaGHhFpYOPapOD > T7Yh32cZqmFErc9Jg7DsQIn2inHF3ODqErikCDr7aSqRAJGs8VDaCSccnUIpFDjb > jR5TozbRxAw3mgB1WETA > =3DmDA1 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --Apple-Mail-0822F129-4199-497D-9F17-42209490620E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Buena Vista Suites is als= o booked

Lake Buena Vista Spa Resor= t has openings and is probably closest at about .49 miles away but is a 1.1 m= ile walk/drive due to route.



On Feb 18, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Peter Sa= int-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im&g= t; wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2/18/13 1:55 PM, Everett O.= (Buzz) Rigsbee wrote:
Hi Peter, &= nbsp; I suggest you try the Buena Vista Suites, a sister
property to the Caribe Royale that i= s located immediately next door
(easy walk back & forth) and they do offer free breakfasts. &= nbsp;Our
802 guys lik= e them a lot.

Thanks. I actual= ly booked elsewhere, but that looks like a good choice.

Peter

- --
Pe= ter Saint-Andre
https://stpe= ter.im/


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86att= endees mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=
= --Apple-Mail-0822F129-4199-497D-9F17-42209490620E-- From ietf@rozanak.com Mon Feb 18 15:54:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9332221E809E for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:54:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FzBhV9llmfsn for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E1021E8088 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from kopoli (e179167152.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.167.152]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKHRG-1U88F228zm-001JUw; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:54:46 -0500 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: "'Jon Hudson'" References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <002d01ce0e1a$56afe670$040fb350$@net> <51229798.5020207@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:54:35 +0100 Message-ID: <003a01ce0e33$520281a0$f60784e0$@rozanak.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01CE0E3B.B3CC8EF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEGygkLgYTLsDk0JDujXqBahKVpBgInuNshAeF2D7cC9uZOHpnW0LwA Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:jAewBNOzD+TJxxWrzt2qsAWa0cOxVKtk5mboxvfHyrW Yp7oPLDwCmjCdeGmq3Jb8yufgl26ovkUtfIOgI8YIpXAw9XSLH HDWShtA7CzZ2CRX4Xv0RLCC83EjDiJmfVFb8AmEDahkylSQk0V 4Aq3wz8gStlfF4TgE484Zr8l3YQmidvWvu75yLCd8mNtRb39N5 Ih00XSgnVVdUtds4eE2oD1do831m/dPwG5wCK6PU1KbFVhGUSM /HlFN27TRxmQ1Xllf+Tts+CWO2HreHfnOexSYP82RAk4pcJC56 iXuccGXkQUYsM7A8fjypRTfZUajveWZR4pb3Gjx6qj4cnwS3Qa wek93PT9uycfRplOH7+I= Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:54:49 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CE0E3B.B3CC8EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >.49 miles away Unfortunately we don=E2=80=99t have a helicopter and no wings to fly.. = so I guess we are stuck with the 1.1 miles walk/drive=E2=80=A6. =20 =20 From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Jon Hudson Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:41 AM To: Peter Saint-Andre Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee; BRigsB@ieee.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels =20 Buena Vista Suites is also booked =20 Lake Buena Vista Spa Resort has openings and is probably closest at = about .49 miles away but is a 1.1 mile walk/drive due to route. =20 =20 On Feb 18, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Peter Saint-Andre = wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2/18/13 1:55 PM, Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee wrote: Hi Peter, I suggest you try the Buena Vista Suites, a sister property to the Caribe Royale that is located immediately next door (easy walk back & forth) and they do offer free breakfasts. Our 802 guys like them a lot. Thanks. I actually booked elsewhere, but that looks like a good choice. Peter - --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRIpeYAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pdlwQAJg3RoKC/BcaEkK/9ODY+wQY FoyZCUaDjr7+iVhknwcuAm2PwpfOiPFKgchqScqt8j71gBOsNfeuyhXr2TshrMir dQ/rnotwJjC+bfNzELuofbATRFBgi6yNBmyBzYYogTCyUlHOmAMGLzrZAjdhIGT1 +nZuup9roxt+ScHRiMV4Toirs82yPiLDVZfVTdIPyzP+Qw+GkxMTkbNLo+QuKtrk 1nGE9V/xR7Mf1sMbnpc8BXl2D2W/VrWzdtBSGmhI3nssOEoS91l9SShGAONRyDT/ Rt5cbyP6DKFTT7m0eusQc5kTCHYTGONZwoQAA3k1ez2G0yE/lpXEbw1oeOpQkc6m gFGxLcF2WYRl151ymqJRC1LWBD8KJ8OiIzoI/Dd5jbkZEqI7SzXsByrrWNWFgANc bVKfeo1g0Us1V086AY/UYtq3b5G8wt/+AF0GPfdcM/2TXEYPxf/uorah5Xo5trqL y9XwaRG+mFTHw+OSWx3e9OtICg+TtYAohTtdrMaHRoVj2dql1NcHkOwd5U3q9v4Y M6lfQ63hSA5uNRoZwfGmVRn12FMnbbSGvw75/E89FTiJ/6uVyuCaGHhFpYOPapOD T7Yh32cZqmFErc9Jg7DsQIn2inHF3ODqErikCDr7aSqRAJGs8VDaCSccnUIpFDjb jR5TozbRxAw3mgB1WETA =3DmDA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CE0E3B.B3CC8EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>.49 = miles away

Unfortunately we don=E2=80=99t have a helicopter and no wings to = fly.. so I guess we are stuck with the 1.1 miles = walk/drive=E2=80=A6.

 

 

From: = 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Jon Hudson
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 = 12:41 AM
To: Peter Saint-Andre
Cc: = 86attendees@ietf.org; Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee; = BRigsB@ieee.org
Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up = hotels

 

Buena Vista Suites is also = booked

 

Lake Buena Vista Spa Resort has openings and is = probably closest at about .49 miles away but is a 1.1 mile walk/drive = due to route.

 

 


On Feb 18, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Peter = Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> = wrote:

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Hash: SHA1

On 2/18/13 1:55 PM, Everett O. (Buzz) = Rigsbee wrote:

Hi Peter, =   I suggest you try the Buena Vista Suites, a = sister

property to the Caribe Royale that is located = immediately next door

(easy walk back & forth) and they do offer free = breakfasts.  Our

802 = guys like them a lot.


Thanks. I actually booked elsewhere, but that = looks like a good choice.

Peter

- --
Peter = Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/


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_______________________________________________
86at= tendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

=
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01CE0E3B.B3CC8EF0-- From ietf@johnlevine.com Mon Feb 18 16:04:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557B821E8051 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXR-wxzF4KUP for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15A421E8094 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 60651 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2013 00:04:38 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=ecea.5122c196.k1302; bh=MQ4drvgaGHqumUwDUfXPsD++e7R293oAQ4La+hms4s4=; b=nqnSIJAnpyhU81csvND7XakiXmeP7LvCIr2bmnzG6YsnXW/Lt+qjaRAipDl2WasH4F02lyPPgpLuMWjMhe1KYWFQXRuwAKbLvp575NTE8LuOy7Zckt9cSyyO8QopPLl1yMJ2aWMGWBC9oUyY3bsjE+xcqet9svm9Wi7IGySyuB4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=johnlevine.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=ecea.5122c196.k1302; bh=MQ4drvgaGHqumUwDUfXPsD++e7R293oAQ4La+hms4s4=; b=PMfzeUaXhZ9yiGrbksOalHvc2q13ule2EhNEvy6IjThvyc4TzjvFMDHKETmAyvGqgDVw0tcgXhhPgbb8OjANyIXIjHABQyLLSr2uMr8qnnmIiQL6cJs2pAlDvDO5I3t94iJPumWrwfHznNWJ+l1Kll+BaRSsJhDFze1pt3oOe/A= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 19 Feb 2013 00:04:16 -0000 Date: 19 Feb 2013 01:04:36 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Hosnieh Rafiee" In-Reply-To: <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:04:44 -0000 On Tue, 19 Feb 2013, Hosnieh Rafiee wrote: > I do not understand why you are having problems finding and reserving a > hotel. Check this website. You can filter it to find the closest hotel to > the IETF venue. The following hotel is also good and within 25 minutes > walking time to the venue. It still has rooms available. That's a pretty exciting walk along a four lane divided highway, only one block of which has a sidewalk. I realize it's morally indefensible, but if you're not staying at the conference hotel, you really need a car, or at least find someone staying in the same direction who will agree to drive you. R's, John From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Mon Feb 18 16:13:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E49E21E8094 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:13:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0pwI8ZAPMGqj for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a88.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcbbj.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.119]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACEB121E8051 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a88.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a88.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21450264060 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:13:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=NsPy6AzidNFxkHWBZwDQu0S11gZBgcg/nTt+c+e8lw6nplTbS5bW6OetLWm4 y7b8i504BB25DdAwNMU177JokQo1QaVeSUspT7SrucRr+fsr7ZLYCzlxRlyyQUyn TK/Buhc9H37tK3zMWlyNo9nA/onu6qIkppho8r5O+FbAuzI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=/sqXsdi5C7UYu3gDejFxp97rYJI=; b=pxSHrxY2m8aoy PPH++vUpJ+rk6GtURV7CJeA7SNTl2+XkmIL/oO2puhJVaGJD3b4QQGKk1qYlS176 XZSbYIjvLVqhBbH9KWMylQUOFAkC77LFJimdeoeEFtRGhSMBDrQAPitMdSFs1exX vuU3M02i+WZM0iA7ZfZkwURy+aAw7s= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a88.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99712264059 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:13:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5122C38C.7060308@nomountain.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 15:13:00 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:13:04 -0000 On 2/18/13 3:04 PM, John R Levine wrote: > That's a pretty exciting walk along a four lane divided highway, only > one block of which has a sidewalk. Right, and it's unreasonable to think that there won't be any participants who are disabled or have mobility issues. Temperatures are going to be in the 80s Fahrenheit while we're there, which I find uncomfortable in the extreme. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From ietf@rozanak.com Mon Feb 18 16:46:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3871321F8D63 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:46:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.143, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5cL0by558DEP for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDB621F8D62 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 16:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from kopoli (e179167152.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.167.152]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M8lvA-1U28Ek2KvU-00Co3O; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:46:08 -0500 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: <86attendees@ietf.org> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> <5122C38C.7060308@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: <5122C38C.7060308@nomountain.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:45:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000001ce0e3a$7f73f180$7e5bd480$@rozanak.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEGygkLgYTLsDk0JDujXqBahKVpBgNCkrB2Amm5w/sCMt5sLwKBLYIKAj1zppcCDOCLoQGVvD3rApRoBGICSrabrAGUiI5dAfzVGWsCJQhXBZk4MATg Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:TdfroVA8YDdUKw0A1wNI8BCd+XRLU6PL1UIAgizBQop 1+Rq4qH0LSslBLDnXllJHPEoIg8SvNYGYj01jYZp1hKfAR8QA+ c3TFnL2rZ2Fsudb9zCcTnQL9UD6h7Vetpl1WmqQmnzTC67drBl zbPg824QQy2xcDref1F2tXKQr+ZWEmyZwc+nz5M9+NyES7r+OT 1YT0lGgstIGjy11HLfcFaS14l0VeFYjlJxHPvtZUAZnvJ4ogLX ogWeqi5O5Ng6fV4UxyFh9K1zEa2aLCgEIZEp0TyNyr6mgHhesK +/yXJ0Mv6WUC95uFMPm7Z27LmKysmeMNblmPwVBdVwntbxlyFq i3kIjQV9y9DxIpS1qF7o= Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:46:18 -0000 Anybody staying at the Holiday Inn Express Orlando-Lake Buena Vista East that would like to share ride expenses to and from the conference? -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Shore Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:13 AM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels On 2/18/13 3:04 PM, John R Levine wrote: > That's a pretty exciting walk along a four lane divided highway, only > one block of which has a sidewalk. Right, and it's unreasonable to think that there won't be any participants who are disabled or have mobility issues. Temperatures are going to be in the 80s Fahrenheit while we're there, which I find uncomfortable in the extreme. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From joelja@bogus.com Mon Feb 18 19:59:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A004721F8D0D for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:59:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.461 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.461 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GNjRRaO3+-PW for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A08E21F8CB7 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (c-24-5-127-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.5.127.59]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1J3w8dU097997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 03:58:09 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:58:03 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:19.0) Gecko/20130117 Thunderbird/19.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Chown , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 03:58:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 03:59:03 -0000 On 2/18/13 1:24 PM, Tim Chown wrote: > On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler wrote: > >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: >> >>> So are we in an out-of-town venue? >> Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even if you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you will likely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you rent from the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash tolls on the highways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful. >> >> Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the Caribe Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops a day -- one northbound and two southbound. > This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where good amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car suggests something's gone rather wrong. > > Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of nowhere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, Vancouver, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, talk and dine/drink nearby? Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide to do that, the locations are known. > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > From mcr@sandelman.ca Mon Feb 18 20:08:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 631F521E8040 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:08:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vI8BMC6oU-Xr for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D6421E803A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EAB20168 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 2387710076; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F0D1FD95 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:07:19 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: 86attendees@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3-dev; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:08:28 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "Samuel" =3D=3D Samuel Weiler writes: Samuel> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: >> So are we in an out-of-town venue? Samuel> Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly Samuel> long. Even if you=20 I am at the Grand Beach Resort Lodging, which seems to be walking distance behind the Caribe. I'm sharing a room... I have some notion that the two room suite might be swapped for a three-room if it was available. But, I was considering staying near the Disney Main Gate, which has tons of hotels... assuming that I could use the Caribe's free shuttle to Disney in reverse... I decided not to bother, but maybe someone else can figure that out. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works=20 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUAUSL6doqHRg3pndX9AQJwXAP/QE5FJrvr56f8uyDqr0bmcX9M3nq6fT4b OxKHXue8ITv9A9J43TuD4qI+pmGsmfNqCNTVMaLx7unS5B2cc3upr0v0o6FvBBOn VjCE59FAtTK28gVATeeQrxovJ5KUTVPllObxMjluNJljeslj/gkUVOXYaqIEnCql 3mSnFDq3VFg= =9AKW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Mon Feb 18 20:44:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F22221F845F for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:44:31 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qn4s65n5WSDK for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9AD21F8D66 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:44:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361249070; x=1392785070; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject: cc; bh=csHh0oxTAGhupdYSMPWe01JaEaKt5MOGgxW7oYThIys=; b=lJ7vJWqWjL1AjCb24DZhsJOB3zzn1BPvghiexLJGtg9opEw7gPfGeeY7 WIU/IxhotabbyHesU7Br4M5MoB3f5vCfnvWYs/lzRQ+c7itcwCNFBBxEb sKyKcBIrInnMArpDyzDDJJJEEIDTog8Y/hwUfQtNF+Sqx3uhTplOV99Rv 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,692,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="23932694" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2013 20:44:29 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,692,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="434255365" Received: from myvpn-r-02789.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.7.228]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2013 20:44:26 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <984303BA-E2D9-47CF-8EC3-AA98E96F6479@checkpoint.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <984303BA-E2D9-47CF-8EC3-AA98E96F6479@checkpoint.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:36:34 -0800 To: Yoav Nir , Gregory Mirsky Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:44:31 -0000 At 7:56 PM +0000 2/18/13, Yoav Nir wrote: > Or you can rent a car to drive a single mile back and forth. Even to cross the "street" to get to the dreadful food joints in the strip mall, a car is advisable. I've heard the hotel will drive you. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Automobile: A four-wheeled vehicle that runs up hills and down pedestrians. From d3e3e3@gmail.com Mon Feb 18 20:48:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776BC21F8D70 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8+ULE4JuGRBY for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-f179.google.com (mail-ob0-f179.google.com [209.85.214.179]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 564B921F8C96 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f179.google.com with SMTP id un3so6239903obb.38 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=u6XPUiam3Z5eUFiHGUR/yI6OYBC1wJ540O7We5/KCCs=; b=ETgIXZAsSxHfj3I/sDwLLTZn5ANHXwr7MTlFhf5aEz3VDjr/975gfUYZLKLxjh71XI XvivykqCuS+5Gun+FUDXGBRwDvEP6jUakQgHDpj7brmJQC95i18/LjDZ0Qv+XVnfVxKD r5JLLn2+Sof01kG1ShLtEK21wYVV4ZtLwRj2EogBwSogeUu2pEh5h/Q7wyJXcvidyDCW OTEcW/FR6xEGr4kPMPJpMHqXgO7o6eBzvrbVj1TsPyit/4t0GpJHkMbb0z6KaY/GBWbw tYA7zjvCwqjux/Vo1VxTGilE9LYM0DdGCd7KLRaIpxytnpGsA249PKQb/GstsTaNP11Q r0nQ== X-Received: by 10.60.172.18 with SMTP id ay18mr6947067oec.126.1361249324839; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.76.98.168 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:48:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <984303BA-E2D9-47CF-8EC3-AA98E96F6479@checkpoint.com> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:48:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:48:49 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 7:56 PM +0000 2/18/13, Yoav Nir wrote: > >> Or you can rent a car to drive a single mile back and forth. > > Even to cross the "street" to get to the dreadful food joints in the strip > mall, a car is advisable. I've heard the hotel will drive you. Well, I have walked across that street many times. IEEE 802 tends to have approaching 1 meeting a year at the Caribe Royale. Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Automobile: A four-wheeled vehicle that runs up hills > and down pedestrians. > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Mon Feb 18 20:49:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9F321F8C96 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:49:42 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: <0tdyUxYdIWNv> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_PHARMACY=1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0tdyUxYdIWNv for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAF721F8D70 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:49:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361249382; x=1392785382; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject; bh=4DqJO28T/bcsZVcNjFBmUyQN/9fQL7lHzPXmR6/9ma4=; b=q3e1CKnGt9C5b0YZ7gIR2RqCvlRxIFEeTKBClefe65hBQHpwMwt1mBth e5iIxxQB+eoMmo8Zhspyfs3YxQAdFMm9HMZ6EUpwj8sHH6rP28YBOd/w5 iCD+zfFFoce+6iPtcS46dmvJfQnKHgWEt7LxdT0hzzuSFnbgeo9AZBP4o M=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,692,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="23917876" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2013 20:49:41 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,692,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="434257910" Received: from myvpn-r-02789.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [99.111.97.136]) ([10.64.7.228]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 18 Feb 2013 20:49:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:44:26 -0800 To: , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:49:43 -0000 At 9:02 PM +0100 2/18/13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > I guess no walking distance meal choices There are two "restaurants" that are in a strip mall across the "street" -- a Chinese buffet and a pizza place. Neither look like a place that is any good, but of course everyone's tastes are different. There is also a CVS pharmacy there. On the hotel site there is a very small to-go place that has a basic salad bar, some grab-and-go sandwiches, and some hot items to go (similar to what you'd find in a second-rate airport terminal). There is also a casual restaurant and a fancy restaurant, and a bar. The hotel has a sister property which is a 5-10 minute walk on the same grounds and there is another casual restaurant and another fancy restaurant there. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Dr. Beverly Crusher to Wesley Crusher as he is about to beam down to begin his journey with the Traveler into other dimensions: "Be sure to dress warmly on those other planes of existence." From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Mon Feb 18 21:02:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89F9421F8DAE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d6Pr8hwb2KtY for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcaid.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED64921F8C06 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3635B9405C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=ZeN4i/agpdY5oFTBu+Tk7eJsrMsiVUj4Ppd4DPOJaAt3Xx66Q2r9z51fmo9K 0t6sArwduxnPmTaVy1OHhjyoXqkiLWifobQorp5PXwkWOsu7KKZQfObuQ5gk9imT M4YzFbejWb2rN/NmJz0N97K0TJ/C9AeOQIdNw4eywfhPP74= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=wpu3lQ+wC0P8DgP0eghp6N8aXJI=; b=p5s56j7w0K/3Z cb8qZsVHB5vJeLFLHnKvNJ//xd2zKFdQo0FipWOLxCk36R4OHfvIwd6ELQrKjJjJ F7TgZRyq8TBv0vL1Kg0Lc65VJ9sDnfYJok1Wt2mFpogl5chU3RvWDEDll2zOeUoN negl+nrIDoAJcY1kVDmmpzh5rvkda4= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EBE9594005 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:02:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5123074B.30009@nomountain.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:02:03 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:02:07 -0000 On 2/18/13 7:44 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > There are two "restaurants" that are in a strip mall across the "street" > -- a Chinese buffet and a pizza place. It looks like the restaurant with the best reviews in the immediate area is a Dunkin' Donut. I sincerely hope that co-locating with the IEEE meeting turns out to be productive. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From pthatcher@gmail.com Mon Feb 18 21:07:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57AAD21F8DC4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p8lG8yGPRBrx for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f52.google.com (mail-pb0-f52.google.com [209.85.160.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1551421F8DC3 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id ma3so2021257pbc.25 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=uclQ0Yv/bWku/FqSsIb1Oyx9ofvGE6JDY4ThHHVZnV0=; b=yylUxbiaUYLFLXSYD+8XvxcteyCHo7wp52kVLrkPPGqoJogVxn+T8sRfc8hDaehQzl A2qseFZN8f83H3W3yqtDSMAbnEC+cAEYDWPawKRyr5HIga+yhtA7b4KqcXsKcFhy8xtp PkEQga3WTrM1KuTYvq2JWUURMfJRBT6Gh8xXaRhl3wDtpOu7dWkM6W61vFMf0ddX6S3m GE3d3FCTq36Tf50STFPY5iRWqQ7ff1U9Ckn/Cf5gP8j40pZvPsbGDjFfPpdzgYbt4/gN GnFcCnq5EMKod/h0AjUk1ysJQxSkdNFqzwF7YB6uqYBjIMm72sjU/kw4ZVX8vBBIkgQ3 3D5Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.49.167 with SMTP id v7mr36566594pbn.131.1361250428773; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.27.99 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.27.99 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:07:08 -0800 Message-ID: From: Peter Thatcher To: Melinda Shore Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec544eeb041e62904d60cd0dc Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:07:10 -0000 --bcaec544eeb041e62904d60cd0dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the geography, Florida is not a desert. Orlando is in a "humid subtropical" zone, which is very different. If the IETF ever meets in Arizona in the summer, them you can complain about a desert. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Florida By the way, after nearly being stuck in the Boston snowstorm after an IETF interim meeting, sunny and 80F sounds quite nice. I don't understand why everyone is complaining so much. On Feb 18, 2013 11:54 AM, "Melinda Shore" wrote: > On 2/18/13 10:49 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > > So are we in an out-of-town venue? > > We're in a hellish suburban desert. (I'm good with being in a hellish > suburban desert as long as we can get work done.) > > Melinda > > > > -- > Melinda Shore > No Mountain Software > melinda.shore@nomountain.net > > "Software longa, hardware brevis." > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > --bcaec544eeb041e62904d60cd0dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those wh= o are unfamiliar with the geography, Florida is not a desert.=A0 Orlando is= in a "humid subtropical" zone, which is very different.=A0 If th= e IETF ever meets in Arizona in the summer, them you can complain about a d= esert.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Florida

By the way, after nearly being stuck in the Boston snowstorm= after an IETF interim meeting, sunny and 80F sounds quite nice.=A0 I don&#= 39;t understand why everyone is complaining so much.

On Feb 18, 2013 11:54 AM, "Melinda Shore&qu= ot; <melinda.shore@nomou= ntain.net> wrote:
On 2/18/13 10:49 AM, Tim Chown wrote:
> So are we in an out-of-town venue?

We're in a hellish suburban desert. =A0(I'm good with being in a he= llish
suburban desert as long as we can get work done.)

Melinda



--
Melinda Shore
No Mountain Software
melinda.shore@nomountain.ne= t

"Software longa, hardware brevis."
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
--bcaec544eeb041e62904d60cd0dc-- From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Mon Feb 18 21:11:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E6A621F8DCF for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:11:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N72Wi0rq-L-l for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcahe.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01EFC21F8DCB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3207C1B4058; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:10:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=Byr6nlk5qZGUUp6u71FJLaje09CZgXllOW5mjjybK9D+AtWjrQ1JGbA4Ksxs y7lATQd1xuRFqCBy/auUANf8iM4CHrtL8nWBzbpVJbc+dS7uGEufz7lotkLwskma GNe7UP80bhQ7KtRvQiubttr+drxHhtlepGvYCOij+Mya2Vw= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=hJvWjnX0ZqxsdKKXnMVe0/cFPQU=; b=BMpZPRD120RHO MoQ/w4LT7shjCvyB+uzs7sGcjNMvkDiqgE7IeqMb+jm5Z3svWp0e6iQLQufHS+r7 wcoSq817qQ/6SyA3gCOLY/GjA7o58o2voCEKuZI7PW94NWdHC7f68+omtAkdhs+p qoThmTlcLsq/PwrgfeNiu/aS59zZGE= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a28.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5C4C1B4009; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:10:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:10:56 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Thatcher References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:11:02 -0000 On 2/18/13 8:07 PM, Peter Thatcher wrote: > I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar > with the geography, Florida is not a desert. Thanks for the correction! Metaphor *is* hard. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 23:06:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD1221F8D79 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:06:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.698, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z+wXQ6qPk-gd for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8892E21F8D70 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1J76WGK004331 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:06:32 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r1J76WGK004331 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=200903; t=1361257592; bh=uJrgOb9ip1XK+ZE25vDtgiJBsFU=; h=Subject:References:From:In-Reply-To:Date:To:Mime-Version; b=xUoEykhp16DNzjZMUS+BGbDIU9vfFwKvzr9Udm1kGlmzu2pn5SCeASmP3Z+cFaB/F sCfNFen70LOvkSR2Mckf9GMhahy7jEDHU8epc+tXpUVL6B9D2W1SmbXgtYOT2yXUF5 i7uMxCKQkV2Gmnv7xGl2wo4vUmucMKI5jnZ0AX9Q= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p1I76W0430631037mf ret-id none; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:06:32 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1J75DA1003918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:05:14 GMT References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> From: Tim Chown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B141) In-Reply-To: <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:09:49 +0000 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p1I76W043063103700; tid=p1I76W0430631037mf; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r1J76WGK004331 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:06:43 -0000 On 19 Feb 2013, at 03:58, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 2/18/13 1:24 PM, Tim Chown wrote: >> On 18 Feb 2013, at 20:36, Samuel Weiler wrote: >>=20 >>> On Mon, 18 Feb 2013, Tim Chown wrote: >>>=20 >>>> So are we in an out-of-town venue? >>> Yes. This area is suburban, and distances are surprisingly long. Even i= f you are staying at the Caribe Royale, I suggest renting a car -- you will l= ikely appreciate the flexibility to go off-site for meals. If you rent from= the airport, remember to get some US currency to pay the cash tolls on the h= ighways. Parking at the Caribe Royale is free and appears to be plentiful. >>>=20 >>> Public transport is very limited -- the Lynx bus that stops at the Carib= e Royale and the nearby Marriott resort (#304) only makes three stops a day -= - one northbound and two southbound. >> This is so frustrating. Really we should never be at an IETF venue where g= ood amenities are not nearby. For anyone to consider renting a car suggests s= omething's gone rather wrong. >>=20 >> Sounds a bit like the Dublin golf resort, which was in the middle of nowh= ere. Can we please stick to places like Prague, Minneapolis, Quebec, Vancouv= er, etc where there are other hotel options and places to meet, talk and din= e/drink nearby? > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a referendum o= n colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide to do that, the l= ocations are known. It would be interestng to know how many people will attend both. I sincerely= hope we're not inflicting a bad venue on the majority for the convenience o= f a small minority. Sounds like we get a free game of real-life Frogger though. Bonus! Tim= From trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch Tue Feb 19 00:05:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD7F21F8D83 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:05:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HBoqEnJrzff2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:05:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E0C21F8D74 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 00:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC758D930D; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:05:25 +0100 (MET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 62f5ojpJqNTd; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:05:25 +0100 (MET) Received: from pb-10243.ethz.ch (pb-10243.ethz.ch [82.130.102.152]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: briant) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9E46D930C; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:05:25 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Brian Trammell In-Reply-To: <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:05:25 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> To: Melinda Shore X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Peter Thatcher Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:05:28 -0000 Of the two matching definitions given by the New Oxford American = Dictionary, this would seem to be the best fit: des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (2)) a situation or area considered dull and = uninteresting however des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (1)) a lifeless and unpleasant place, = especially=20 one consisting of or covered with a specified substance would also seem to be appropriate, if one is amenable to treating = "Disney" as a mass noun. (Seriously, though, especially for those non-Americans who are used to = our usual city venues, and not used to American outer suburbs, who are = considering walking: don't. The only venue I can remember that was this = bad for pedestrians is Dallas, and then only because of the flooding.) Cheers, Brian On 19 Feb 2013, at 6:10 , Melinda Shore wrote: > On 2/18/13 8:07 PM, Peter Thatcher wrote: >> I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are = unfamiliar >> with the geography, Florida is not a desert. =20 >=20 > Thanks for the correction! Metaphor *is* hard. >=20 > Melinda >=20 > --=20 > Melinda Shore > No Mountain Software > melinda.shore@nomountain.net >=20 > "Software longa, hardware brevis." > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From david.black@emc.com Tue Feb 19 06:20:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAE8121F87CD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:20:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pmas7dvRtQy3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mexforward.lss.emc.com (hop-nat-141.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CFD21F87E4 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (HOP04-L1D11-SI01.isus.emc.com [10.254.111.54]) by mexforward.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r1JEKW7W019221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:34 -0500 Received: from mailhub.lss.emc.com (mailhubhoprd04.lss.emc.com [10.254.222.226]) by hop04-l1d11-si01.isus.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:21 -0500 Received: from mxhub09.corp.emc.com (mxhub09.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.104]) by mailhub.lss.emc.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id r1JEKI20023676; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:18 -0500 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.74]) by mxhub09.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.104]) with mapi; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:18 -0500 From: "Black, David" To: Hosnieh Rafiee , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:16 -0500 Thread-Topic: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQEGygkLgYTLsDk0JDujXqBahKVpBgNCkrB2Amm5w/sCMt5sLwKBLYIKAj1zppcCDOCLoQGVvD3rApRoBGICSrabrAGUiI5dAfzVGWsCJQhXBZk4MATggADikUA= Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE7128F801479@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <6DA30320-5FA0-4A8D-9945-C7ADB90339C7@ve7jtb.com> <001d01ce0e2d$2060e020$6122a060$@rozanak.com> <5122C38C.7060308@nomountain.net> <000001ce0e3a$7f73f180$7e5bd480$@rozanak.com> In-Reply-To: <000001ce0e3a$7f73f180$7e5bd480$@rozanak.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-EMM-MHVC: 1 Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:20:40 -0000 > Anybody staying at the Holiday Inn Express Orlando-Lake Buena Vista East > that would like to share ride expenses to and from the conference? Hmm - I'm staying there, and I'm happy to fill my rental car w/people who n= eed rides (no charge), but I can't promise to match schedules. Perhaps the= wiki could be used to coordinate times and designate a meeting area at the= Caribe for each outlying hotel (and at the outlying hotels as well - lobby= is obvious default)? At the very least that could result in shared taxis = if nobody w/a car is headed off soon. I concur with the comments about poor choice of venue - I've been to a coup= le of meetings at the Caribe and was very surprised that IETF went there as= there's almost nothing within walking distance. I may have to find somewh= ere in the morning or previous evening where I can get a brown-bag lunch an= d bring it. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of Hosnieh Rafiee > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 7:46 PM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels >=20 > Anybody staying at the Holiday Inn Express Orlando-Lake Buena Vista East > that would like to share ride expenses to and from the conference? >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of Melinda Shore > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 1:13 AM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels >=20 > On 2/18/13 3:04 PM, John R Levine wrote: > > That's a pretty exciting walk along a four lane divided highway, only > > one block of which has a sidewalk. >=20 > Right, and it's unreasonable to think that there won't be any participant= s > who are disabled or have mobility issues. > Temperatures are going to be in the 80s Fahrenheit while we're there, whi= ch > I find uncomfortable in the extreme. >=20 > Melinda >=20 > -- > Melinda Shore > No Mountain Software > melinda.shore@nomountain.net >=20 > "Software longa, hardware brevis." > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From ietf@johnlevine.com Tue Feb 19 06:30:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A76C21F8B6C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:30:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nlhobqa5Ctmp for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712A821F8A56 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29700 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2013 14:30:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=7401.51238c6d.k1302; bh=h3Ki55LDEMdQNUwndcNxJonqenz3JX91w9Nag3br6IE=; b=X1yf3q9kLgZxFxYXITYPL0gluBSSEupDZPUhtPY2L+XR15OVHuyi6NXHbFjfDEO53a1tcV8Ru2ukOgXFsnYtShF8hHBEEk6llHU8jL+R7ABY1fvHpbteaUNSXEsKpTCwBKMaofMaD9uREdLU907knqW7MssNuIk+34oO+mJ5k40= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=johnlevine.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=7401.51238c6d.k1302; bh=h3Ki55LDEMdQNUwndcNxJonqenz3JX91w9Nag3br6IE=; b=fD0BNEQY4HXXxgsJG/27R4CQCxttPFvJ5yo6cjriS5FRRK7siFSRiVFRZ7gHjYPuWS5kxcM9Ru6L6ZNHZjmuqGnO7dWjZSGRuP9K44/XOg2rSk/uKjeXLjuybUdgXdlsbtZgLgFsKbLKqSIb4hPB91vicnM26e6Qh6EmkizLJoo= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 19 Feb 2013 14:29:43 -0000 Date: 19 Feb 2013 15:30:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: 86attendees@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels and transportation X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:30:09 -0000 >>> with the geography, Florida is not a desert. Ah, good point. The part we're visiting is a hellish desolate suburban SWAMP. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly PS: There are parts of Florida I like, but none of them are in Orange or Osceola counties. From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Tue Feb 19 07:17:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4BB21F8DF3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:17:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EHyFAJ7ry-2Q for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6597421F8DBB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1JFGwdj011070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:16:58 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1JFGwhL001778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:16:58 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.35]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:16:57 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODnflAuKC3BzDd0Kjmt279MONUJiBO80Q Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:16:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3210 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361287018-0000547A-01356D4E/0-0/0-0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:17:01 -0000 Hi Bob, All, I am wondering whether IAOC could arrange kind of a shuttle between the mee= ting site and Orlando downtown (pick a place near to main hotels). This cou= ld be at least in the morning (arrival at meeting site at 8:30am) and 1-2 t= imes in the evening after end of sessions. The busses in Dublin were really= helpful. If this meeting location was unavoidable (e.g. because of a very good deal)= , can we then expect additional deals with car rental companies for special= rates? I generally appreciate meetings in downtown of a hub city. E.g. in Chicago = or Philadelphia downtown there were many hotel options but also diverse res= taurants in the near. There are many good examples where people were happy = concerning hotel and food options, e.g. Vancouver, Beijing, Paris, Stockhol= m, Quebec and even Minneapolis. And we had also some unforgettable bad exam= ples like Maastricht and Dublin wasting plenary time with long discussions. =09 I had assumed that we had already sufficient discussion on this issue and i= t was clear that the IETF community does not want locations in suburb areas= . I am surprised that the opinion of so many people given to the surveys af= ter the meetings do not count much. Cheers,=20 Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of ext Brian Trammell > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:05 AM > To: Melinda Shore > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Peter Thatcher > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels >=20 > Of the two matching definitions given by the New Oxford American Dictiona= ry, this > would seem to be the best fit: >=20 > des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (2)) a situation or area considered dull and u= ninteresting >=20 > however >=20 > des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (1)) a lifeless and unpleasant place, especial= ly > one consisting of or covered with a specified substance >=20 > would also seem to be appropriate, if one is amenable to treating "Disney= " as a mass > noun. >=20 >=20 > (Seriously, though, especially for those non-Americans who are used to ou= r usual city > venues, and not used to American outer suburbs, who are considering walki= ng: don't. > The only venue I can remember that was this bad for pedestrians is Dallas= , and then > only because of the flooding.) >=20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Brian >=20 > On 19 Feb 2013, at 6:10 , Melinda Shore wrote: >=20 > > On 2/18/13 8:07 PM, Peter Thatcher wrote: > >> I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamili= ar > >> with the geography, Florida is not a desert. > > > > Thanks for the correction! Metaphor *is* hard. > > > > Melinda > > > > -- > > Melinda Shore > > No Mountain Software > > melinda.shore@nomountain.net > > > > "Software longa, hardware brevis." > > _______________________________________________ > > 86attendees mailing list > > 86attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Tue Feb 19 07:47:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64C021F85EB for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sM+OD2STboWR for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f52.google.com (mail-vb0-f52.google.com [209.85.212.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF16A21F8DE8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fa15so4234171vbb.25 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=e8z09pceH3LYnm8CayF3MniPcBxFMTDvK401bwzy9Jk=; b=Zyc4dksmfC4lRhencjz/WMFHK7oZrBOTR6glDy8wr/G7DFXn8SnD2FZHKnVq2A4J16 LEqG0DbxD1/TQ4pYYfIKpFg6Jb46C100C9SF2+Ux8ebsavLnqiM6JSTkYH69mrM6v7Ak cz5GnKk0uR07Zwgrk1Z2SkAD8lyEIxAWs7jp3eMRMxgQIaKiWO1qhn+VaA5stb+gcxvm gYXyE6cnDOCswlkZ88/lSnU14Xw1vfI5qHPcxrFyagcax0GMmSq7Kh1wfE9mq7X7azqV iVEmVH1+hL+IEuqluHHmUL8mlICpTpDN1ihIuKgW/YoG5ezNpjpaL3Vi536c1DStjjme 1DAw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.224.101 with SMTP id rb5mr13663914vec.17.1361288843471; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:47:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:47:23 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Bob Hinden Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:47:53 -0000 I'll go ahead and add my two cents since I was one of the most vocal with regards to both Dublin and Maastricht - the former due to food choices at the venue and the latter due to the number of hops to get there (two flights + 3 trains + 1 taxi). I agree that Orlando is a pretty poor choice. The hotels and transport are optimized for folks on vacation and wanting to visit the parks. This venue brings the food issue to the forefront as well as the inconvenience of traveling. I will have a rental car which helps with both the food issue and the travel inconvenience. I will be making a run to Whole Foods before the meetings start (it's about a 40 minute round trip from the venue), so I have something to eat for lunch, etc. Fortunately, the rooms do have refrigerators and microwaves. The good news about this venue is that we are at least able to prepare for the inconvenience as opposed to both Dublin (where one couldn't order off the menu for lunch) and Maastricht which was certainly much more difficult to get to than Orlando will be. The other issue I wanted to raise with regards to Orlando is that since it is a family vacation destination and it is Spring Break in Dallas, the airfares are crazy - almost $800 since I don't get travel approval nearly as early as families book vacation. At that price it's crazy to even bring my sons who will be on Spring Break - on principle I won't pay the sam price for a ticket to a place like Orlando that I can pay to travel to Europe off season. The time we will be in Orlando is anticipated to have some of the highest crowds at Disney (March is the busiest month): http://yourfirstvisit.net/2011/09/12/disney-world-crowds-in-2013/ Folks that are staying offsite such as the Holiday Inn might want to consider that there likely will be a lot of families with younger children, so I wouldn't count on any quiet time to work in your room - bring your earplugs. I strongly believe that a basic requirement is to avoid resort and vacation destinations. I prefer off season in the case where we select cities that are popular vacation destinations - e.g., I think Vancouver is a much better choice for a March or November meeting. I go to meetings to get work done and not to have a vacation. I continue to believe we should pick some cities that have proven optimal for our meetings and rotate through those. Minneapolis would be on the top of my list. When we have meetings in the city centers, all the primary issues are generally solved - i.e., accessibility (physical and nutritional) , convenient travel options from the airport to the meeting venue and convenient alternative lodging. On a positive note, I do appreciate the announcement of the venues for some of the future meetings early enough that folks that want alternatives can easily book those now. Regards, Mary. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Hi Bob, All, > > I am wondering whether IAOC could arrange kind of a shuttle between the m= eeting site and Orlando downtown (pick a place near to main hotels). This c= ould be at least in the morning (arrival at meeting site at 8:30am) and 1-2= times in the evening after end of sessions. The busses in Dublin were real= ly helpful. > > If this meeting location was unavoidable (e.g. because of a very good dea= l), can we then expect additional deals with car rental companies for speci= al rates? > > I generally appreciate meetings in downtown of a hub city. E.g. in Chicag= o or Philadelphia downtown there were many hotel options but also diverse r= estaurants in the near. There are many good examples where people were happ= y concerning hotel and food options, e.g. Vancouver, Beijing, Paris, Stockh= olm, Quebec and even Minneapolis. And we had also some unforgettable bad ex= amples like Maastricht and Dublin wasting plenary time with long discussion= s. > > I had assumed that we had already sufficient discussion on this issue and= it was clear that the IETF community does not want locations in suburb are= as. I am surprised that the opinion of so many people given to the surveys = after the meetings do not count much. > > Cheers, > Mehmet > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org]= On >> Behalf Of ext Brian Trammell >> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:05 AM >> To: Melinda Shore >> Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Peter Thatcher >> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels >> >> Of the two matching definitions given by the New Oxford American Diction= ary, this >> would seem to be the best fit: >> >> des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (2)) a situation or area considered dull and = uninteresting >> >> however >> >> des-ert 2. n. (spec. use (1)) a lifeless and unpleasant place, especia= lly >> one consisting of or covered with a specified substance >> >> would also seem to be appropriate, if one is amenable to treating "Disne= y" as a mass >> noun. >> >> >> (Seriously, though, especially for those non-Americans who are used to o= ur usual city >> venues, and not used to American outer suburbs, who are considering walk= ing: don't. >> The only venue I can remember that was this bad for pedestrians is Dalla= s, and then >> only because of the flooding.) >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Brian >> >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 6:10 , Melinda Shore wrote: >> >> > On 2/18/13 8:07 PM, Peter Thatcher wrote: >> >> I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamil= iar >> >> with the geography, Florida is not a desert. >> > >> > Thanks for the correction! Metaphor *is* hard. >> > >> > Melinda >> > >> > -- >> > Melinda Shore >> > No Mountain Software >> > melinda.shore@nomountain.net >> > >> > "Software longa, hardware brevis." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > 86attendees mailing list >> > 86attendees@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From mcr@sandelman.ca Tue Feb 19 07:54:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39B021F88BE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:54:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_PHARMACY=1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id na4CRAL7lY4x for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:54:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC67021F8A74 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068D520168; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:01:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 4C8E710076; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:53:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D02263761; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Randall Gellens In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3-dev; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, jordi.palet@consulintel.es Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:54:42 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "Randall" =3D=3D Randall Gellens writes: Randall> pharmacy there. On the hotel site there is a very small Randall> to-go place that has=20 Randall> a basic salad bar, some grab-and-go sandwiches, and some Randall> hot items to go=20 Randall> (similar to what you'd find in a second-rate airport Randall> terminal). There is=20 Randall> also a casual restaurant and a fancy restaurant, and a bar. Randall> The hotel has a=20 Really, that's all? I thought given the size and isolation of the place, that there would be more. Maybe I'll open a co-op restaurant in the condo I rented. =2D-=20 Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works=20 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUAUSOf94qHRg3pndX9AQImzQP/Qq/Id4NpdQE4xN6sUNkndo+KLHMPegbj Q+gZ/s17HLYXIMH4FnwT0tWumgPIkGTkszz8W0pcco74o2pL5ldn1VO0XvJywD/K iSEDr0TW0dEgBAt8/EQz7jdIJMu2afX2YrKZf3JcFaW/8JiMe10ExQeVceaAdVTW XhV+r8zdXPE= =yA0L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From vdolmatov@gmail.com Tue Feb 19 09:20:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD15C21F8E6C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.247 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.247 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_PHARMACY=1, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bzI7k+KUFyoY for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f174.google.com (mail-lb0-f174.google.com [209.85.217.174]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB8321F8E6D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id l12so5298783lbo.33 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from :subject:date:to; bh=kto6jPY/LUzMcLyzdddr9yxW5GsFJDSAb4PBqkkGmbw=; b=qesFGoue/3gWO0eGqoNejpgV5uQ4a3kHZEceVIRqnCG6k7YMPfQoqgZ6YK95mowxpN wyqSL8s4oKfLo4OVVjqMpVi7MZUB4vG0COHhTgYv6xPT4GMagP0q7c6jFx4cW6chLHxe GLm2mdl0LFZkM7PBI73hVYih9EOvEncxX7/IYfKSxw3W7YHIYahLuoKWhwE56WHxYbSJ Pz/R1DMKV11JUkcCtjALjyOLtFjClfHOY9WtSIN+bI5Ettt01aVYKWz4yPHy6QrcyBWk bhJdwFnALhPs++NeuY92VepzXEXHI8jIagdud2VtMNy2VlL0cQSfptno6Xon2Qw5qnYe z37g== X-Received: by 10.152.145.134 with SMTP id su6mr9698309lab.35.1361294448590; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.63.4] (broadband-37-110-88-231.nationalcablenetworks.ru. [37.110.88.231]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mq7sm19925305lab.1.2013.02.19.09.20.46 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 09:20:47 -0800 (PST) References: <2658.1361289207@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <2658.1361289207@sandelman.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-40E0DDA2-07EF-4C08-BD65-CACA10C8B8B9; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B141) From: Basil Dolmatov Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:20:47 +0400 To: Michael Richardson Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Randall Gellens , "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:20:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail-40E0DDA2-07EF-4C08-BD65-CACA10C8B8B9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If so, then we will be starving there ;( dol@=20 @mobile iPad 19.02.2013, =D7 19:53, Michael Richardson =CE=C1=D0=C9= =D3=C1=CC(=C1): >=20 >>>>>> "Randall" =3D=3D Randall Gellens writes: > Randall> pharmacy there. On the hotel site there is a very small > Randall> to-go place that has=20 > Randall> a basic salad bar, some grab-and-go sandwiches, and some > Randall> hot items to go=20 > Randall> (similar to what you'd find in a second-rate airport > Randall> terminal). There is=20 > Randall> also a casual restaurant and a fancy restaurant, and a bar. > Randall> The hotel has a=20 >=20 > Really, that's all? > I thought given the size and isolation of the place, that there would be > more. Maybe I'll open a co-op restaurant in the condo I rented. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --Apple-Mail-40E0DDA2-07EF-4C08-BD65-CACA10C8B8B9 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFLDCCBSgw ggQQoAMCAQICEQCzqtgvE8jzXeuHTEiRJlekMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIGTMQswCQYDVQQGEwJH QjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxmb3JkMRowGAYDVQQK ExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlv biBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTEyMDgyMjAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDgyMjIzNTk1OVowJDEi MCAGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYTdmRvbG1hdG92QGdtYWlsLmNvbTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEP ADCCAQoCggEBANzjZNtF1ltHpdUk60jIALV14X92ovFUsVsmya7zMJ7MqG5zzshf5WXwNFnb+/x0 5h0ZiCI1bjbhH6ZUL7UnbDyrnhEobcKchs8ur70SuJKFo10inpXLfKbsUFARzjC2cpNbAyaDlQPt 2CiJakbexbUqS7qLNL8mc4Hv0MPB11vrnX4rtkAbxyDhMPQfE+1aKgU5GpRBu6SFMuVzJXsweAB2 eNdMOF0jxIKkgcUOe2zNW4Mity9FU74OWjkcxtV/LPb90SAMZ8lBLaMF14yfpcpfRYhGbAE2TgC6 ekCgAI9rWHV0deuBdfQnHglxjj1k93dEpBMj0CRWjlqH8LhU/BECAwEAAaOCAeMwggHfMB8GA1Ud IwQYMBaAFHoTTgB0W8Z4Y2QnwS/ioFu8ecV7MB0GA1UdDgQWBBRzOT5Zibu/Zb8GI50sdlmQC7Bu PDAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBaAwDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADAgBgNVHSUEGTAXBggrBgEFBQcDBAYLKwYB BAGyMQEDBQIwEQYJYIZIAYb4QgEBBAQDAgUgMEYGA1UdIAQ/MD0wOwYMKwYBBAGyMQECAQEBMCsw KQYIKwYBBQUHAgEWHWh0dHBzOi8vc2VjdXJlLmNvbW9kby5uZXQvQ1BTMFcGA1UdHwRQME4wTKBK oEiGRmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuY29tb2RvY2EuY29tL0NPTU9ET0NsaWVudEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uYW5k U2VjdXJlRW1haWxDQS5jcmwwgYgGCCsGAQUFBwEBBHwwejBSBggrBgEFBQcwAoZGaHR0cDovL2Ny dC5jb21vZG9jYS5jb20vQ09NT0RPQ2xpZW50QXV0aGVudGljYXRpb25hbmRTZWN1cmVFbWFpbENB LmNydDAkBggrBgEFBQcwAYYYaHR0cDovL29jc3AuY29tb2RvY2EuY29tMB4GA1UdEQQXMBWBE3Zk b2xtYXRvdkBnbWFpbC5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAHQ5I+bspZuhvG96h0lxX4KC61ku eORc09avsoS0xB3N3grgzdEoD7ODzz99KL8h0qJYe8fpqZatyz6hqccicjIzOsCXvopZAMlYew6j tkZ+apIlA5N+Bg0UU36gR40OOgo3/ql/n7GXK06POLaw5GVoBOAgKxzBVxjMYBxlex7U8EmwRmWf MwfjrkA6LPuN8F1YN0mb7noMoY4408xB2E9YIIPdh4P5MStJMuMi6n8AqZpOdFRtMJmnaVpLodUc E4ws2XDsp2L5VwjCe+ihtwCywGu151DTx4HTaYAvsDDXwS90xTcvm+tAKdVMlrrMOnI8/hw618a6 qiHio3lkxGAxggOuMIIDqgIBATCBqTCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIg TWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQx OTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNlY3VyZSBFbWFpbCBD QQIRALOq2C8TyPNd64dMSJEmV6QwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAdkwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwMjE5MTcyMDQ4WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUB+t71JaM dUpsNDuWh9sf41xcB5AwgboGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBrDCBqTCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNV BAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2FsZm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RP IENBIExpbWl0ZWQxOTA3BgNVBAMTMENPTU9ETyBDbGllbnQgQXV0aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIFNl Y3VyZSBFbWFpbCBDQQIRALOq2C8TyPNd64dMSJEmV6QwgbwGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGsoIGpMIGT MQswCQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRowGAYDVQQKExFDT01PRE8gQ0EgTGltaXRlZDE5MDcGA1UEAxMwQ09NT0RPIENsaWVudCBB dXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBAhEAs6rYLxPI813rh0xIkSZXpDANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQCk0cIbuSxON6TycF6ghXg4dYsnC8dfP+P4L6AiIZZOrYkw0Efm2zcxixzS lO33oDnXx4xsDVcSvQDFr5RTUcv+oHHqkezZdSxcVkad/EqFAW2iqCppFmKt2pNK20yJLvU03rMF v0qtdfwo4oLkrIhHS5ZDh4syDBjM6MbcZbNYb0YBLJwZDbV2SdXd9wjFvz1w3+hbw7x2Vgcplnvf qoR1aJnNsns4DaqSuvQjs+ABcK05/hee28zoZj8JGItUoBR3qU8sRWmo2ZA2kzehU/eSL3NlkuZt C2hOKMtbxuRxQTbM6TV39X6AJQDNLwM9XV8LLETlGr7Yn04S5FgYCHL7AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-40E0DDA2-07EF-4C08-BD65-CACA10C8B8B9-- From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Tue Feb 19 09:31:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E81821F8E6C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> <51230960.8060204@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:31:10 -0000 On 2/19/13 6:47 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I continue to believe we should pick some cities that have proven > optimal for our meetings and rotate through those. Minneapolis would > be on the top of my list. I think this is a good suggestion, as long as our goal is productive meetings. We do need to hit some geographic diversity objectives, but at this point we've got enough experience with what works and what doesn't that it should make it easier for staff to sort through the options and, say, eliminate ones that are in the middle of nowhere or don't have reasonable access to much. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From pthaler@broadcom.com Tue Feb 19 10:24:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B3A21F8E5A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:24:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3DalOupd9d52 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms3.broadcom.com (mms3.broadcom.com [216.31.210.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F24921F8E4A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms3.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:18:32 -0800 X-Server-Uuid: B86B6450-0931-4310-942E-F00ED04CA7AF Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:24:20 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:23:59 -0800 From: "Pat Thaler" To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmc5S5Hitna8kec4Ivyfc8OX5iAf5AAgAAHLYCAAAVhAIAADS2AgAANeoCAAG3lgIAANZSAgAAuuGA= Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:23:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D3D1E723QK40585-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:24:35 -0000 Regarding: > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a referendum= on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide to do that, t= he locations are known. Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. San Di= ego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does tend to be one= meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One can't blame the choice= of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary meeting.=20 BTW, Orlando tends to have the usual resort area issues - the resorts are o= ften on large properties so things are very spread out - much more so than = in typical suburban US, but as resort venues go, this one isn't bad. There = is plentiful meeting room space. The cost profile is pretty good both on ro= om rate for attendees and conference costs. The latter helps with balancing= the budget for more expensive city center meetings. One could rent a car a= nd car plus hotel would still be lower than the room rate for the main hote= l at some of the other meetings. The network is good - I've never heard int= ernet complaints at this venue. From joelja@bogus.com Tue Feb 19 10:50:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594BE21F8E0D for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:50:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.088, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZES4bSWMqbve for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:50:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7FFC21F8E0A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:50:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com [64.47.153.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1JIoMh0008760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:50:23 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:50:17 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:19.0) Gecko/20130117 Thunderbird/19.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pat Thaler , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:50:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:50:35 -0000 On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: > Regarding: >> Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide to do that, the locations are known. > Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary meeting. The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. > BTW, Orlando tends to have the usual resort area issues - the resorts are often on large properties so things are very spread out - much more so than in typical suburban US, but as resort venues go, this one isn't bad. There is plentiful meeting room space. The cost profile is pretty good both on room rate for attendees and conference costs. The latter helps with balancing the budget for more expensive city center meetings. One could rent a car and car plus hotel would still be lower than the room rate for the main hotel at some of the other meetings. The network is good - I've never heard internet complaints at this venue. > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > From dhc@dcrocker.net Tue Feb 19 11:00:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E9B21E804B for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5zcb5rHgQgRn for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F91F21F8E66 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.16.101] (64.1.211.245.ptr.us.xo.net [64.1.211.245]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1JJ0Z9B008434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:35 -0800 Message-ID: <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:32 -0800 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joel jaeggli References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:00:35 -0800 (PST) Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:00:48 -0000 On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. >> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does >> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One >> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary >> meeting. > The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance > so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From joelja@bogus.com Tue Feb 19 11:11:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3392D21F8E7B for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.515 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.515 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jltof+A9K-mr for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD7F21F8E79 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com [64.47.153.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1JJB4Ad009045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:11:04 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:10:59 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:19.0) Gecko/20130117 Thunderbird/19.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dcrocker@bbiw.net References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> In-Reply-To: <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:11:09 -0000 On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > > > On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. >>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does >>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One >>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary >>> meeting. >> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance >> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. > > > I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? > If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that satisfy that constraint. > d/ > From jdrake@juniper.net Tue Feb 19 11:24:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7F1121F8E5A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:24:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.243 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.243 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.223, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2xW-789D12tN for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og106.obsmtp.com (exprod7og106.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C78A21F8E30 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; 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Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:20:56 +0000 From: John E Drake To: Peter Thatcher , Melinda Shore Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmbTbf4xB17sUaHlOGNg4BYr5h/+XQAgAAHLYCAAAVhAIAAAWeAgACacgCAAO3zIA== Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:20:56 +0000 Message-ID: <0182DEA5604B3A44A2EE61F3EE3ED69E1B26D704@BL2PRD0510MB349.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <512286ED.1040106@nomountain.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.224.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0182DEA5604B3A44A2EE61F3EE3ED69E1B26D704BL2PRD0510MB349_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%GMAIL.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%NOMOUNTAIN.NET$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:24:42 -0000 --_000_0182DEA5604B3A44A2EE61F3EE3ED69E1B26D704BL2PRD0510MB349_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter, I was interpreting Melinda's comment as cultural rather than meteorological= . Irrespectively Yours, John From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Peter Thatcher Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:07 PM To: Melinda Shore Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar wi= th the geography, Florida is not a desert. Orlando is in a "humid subtropi= cal" zone, which is very different. If the IETF ever meets in Arizona in t= he summer, them you can complain about a desert. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Florida By the way, after nearly being stuck in the Boston snowstorm after an IETF = interim meeting, sunny and 80F sounds quite nice. I don't understand why e= veryone is complaining so much. On Feb 18, 2013 11:54 AM, "Melinda Shore" > wrote: On 2/18/13 10:49 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > So are we in an out-of-town venue? We're in a hellish suburban desert. (I'm good with being in a hellish suburban desert as long as we can get work done.) Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --_000_0182DEA5604B3A44A2EE61F3EE3ED69E1B26D704BL2PRD0510MB349_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Peter,<= /p>

 <= /p>

I was interpreting Melind= a’s comment as cultural rather than meteorological.=

 <= /p>

Irrespectively Yours,

 <= /p>

John

 <= /p>

From: 86attend= ees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Thatcher
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:07 PM
To: Melinda Shore
Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels

 

I don't mean to nitpick, but for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar= with the geography, Florida is not a desert.  Orlando is in a "h= umid subtropical" zone, which is very different.  If the IETF eve= r meets in Arizona in the summer, them you can complain about a desert.

http://en.= m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Florida

By the way, after nearly being stuck in the Boston snowstorm after an IE= TF interim meeting, sunny and 80F sounds quite nice.  I don't understa= nd why everyone is complaining so much.

On Feb 18, 2013 11:54 AM, "Melinda Shore" = <melinda.shore@nomountai= n.net> wrote:

On 2/18/13 10:49 AM, Tim Chown wrote:
> So are we in an out-of-town venue?

We're in a hellish suburban desert.  (I'm good with being in a hellish=
suburban desert as long as we can get work done.)

Melinda



--
Melinda Shore
No Mountain Software
melinda.shore@nomountain.ne= t

"Software longa, hardware brevis."
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--_000_0182DEA5604B3A44A2EE61F3EE3ED69E1B26D704BL2PRD0510MB349_-- From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Tue Feb 19 11:29:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E4E21E8086 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:29:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.823 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OBb+s-AnwzQH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA4F21E8063 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost.ecs.soton.ac.uk [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1JJTTEh011196 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:29:29 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r1JJTTEh011196 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=200903; t=1361302169; bh=8Ad+YwWj027K742QGSUwecsjpw8=; h=Subject:References:From:In-Reply-To:Date:To:Mime-Version; b=ebm2q7iw53j/Uj5xQjwmEuM2CwE0LUfrjcMzTOvAfbe7WflsLjcdUra5zIBY+LFMQ zjjg0PRSh8LEYG6Bh6I5PNNzVvhPJxP8B1pIxPSktj4uiIHGZ+iYTQctivsLrpgz3G 01d1qigzg0efs9uFbt+RnU9gAPRSl9UnYnNniq5Q= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p1IJYY0430643125M8 ret-id none; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:29:29 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (host213-123-213-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.213.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1JJSBlB018645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:28:11 GMT References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> <6DDE8662-ED7F-4367-B6A4-A23542420EC2@ecs.soton.ac.uk> From: Tim Chown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B141) In-Reply-To: <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:32:48 +0000 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p1IJYY043064312500; tid=p1IJYY0430643125M8; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r1JJTTEh011196 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:29:35 -0000 On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >>=20 >> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. >>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does >>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One >>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary >>>> meeting. >>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance >>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. >>=20 >> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? > If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the ieee 8= 02 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that satisfy that c= onstraint But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the few (how m= any?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary? Tim= From joelja@bogus.com Tue Feb 19 11:52:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557D721F8E05 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:52:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2TE99+J9rLX7 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9D121F8DDB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (host-64-47-153-50.masergy.com [64.47.153.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1JJq6pR009595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:52:07 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <5123D7E1.8060005@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 11:52:01 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:19.0) Gecko/20130117 Thunderbird/19.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Chown , 86attendees@ietf.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> <6DDE8662-ED7F-4367-B6A4-A23542420EC2@ecs.soton.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:52:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:52:39 -0000 On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote: >> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. >>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does >>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One >>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary >>>>> meeting. >>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance >>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. >>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? >> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that satisfy that constraint > But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the few (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary? In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I observed. Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide to do that, the locations are known. So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please communicate that to the appropiate parties. > Tim > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > From arturo.servin@gmail.com Tue Feb 19 12:17:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DAA621F88BC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.490, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rd2jlRycmrZa for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com (mail-wi0-f176.google.com [209.85.212.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7E821F88A3 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id hm14so5331902wib.3 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Lm6v5ZDSJwH+hWKlP0DqqPH8ctvlfPfL+IZpV5lJqgg=; b=0ltygGki/SZNnQ1du3JTtNtTyHrcacbU5iOTPaOMLl4JxwVLtnujpTunPEd6F0cjGo k3ya5MNiDB9Jcivuu+lBb3R1U4uBz82Aa1gWNVve1z9DLEhf9ZzreAVtzf4euwHyUgcu 7fzGi7Q0u15pj5ZpN7lp1jG2lLsRPsoeS5OPaIR6xv4jPuXX7WyLYKzoQVd87n7hz0wq XpZOrnIz9YynZGE37iwDccAzZC0CvllC6DStMbm1xmHREhrBs6RD2qwZEI36F7jb6OgI WvuGMOKRQMxTcegx42wUyQP7or8B/bQjGoPPLpigrs5Z8besAh/k0oJesaolFgtWDmBV qEpg== X-Received: by 10.194.23.37 with SMTP id j5mr29116937wjf.28.1361305074606; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from MiniR2D2.local ([94.175.239.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ay10sm4804467wib.3.2013.02.19.12.17.52 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:17:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5123DDF1.3040704@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:17:53 +0000 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> <6DDE8662-ED7F-4367-B6A4-A23542420EC2@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5123D7E1.8060005@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <5123D7E1.8060005@bogus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:17:58 -0000 Come on guys, we are going to be in a nice hotel with hot water, electricity, Internet, food and air conditioning. Sorry to be the one with the bad news, but many Internet engineers in the world work without these privileges. So, let's focus on working on doing good standards and stop complaining. Cheers, /as On 19/02/2013 19:52, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote: >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote: >>> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >>>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >>>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >>>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g. >>>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does >>>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One >>>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenary >>>>>> meeting. >>>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advance >>>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small. >>>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? >>> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the >>> ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that >>> satisfy that constraint >> But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the few >> (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary? > In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I > observed. > > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a > referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide > to do that, the locations are known. > > So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal > purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please > communicate that to the appropiate parties. >> Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From snandaku@cisco.com Tue Feb 19 12:39:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE48F21F88D8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:39:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OeovIt+pafS0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF59421F8903 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:39:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3103; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361306396; x=1362515996; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=lsp+XtJsNu45fNoCkiVH9HppeesXfuS3bYLccIJVXOE=; b=V/IhX4RPfugmddEP+JQ6xdh8twontXAntHr0jVOVPfcp3atmbTmJxUQ5 iKWwjhEzVHKNAV+PM/gKKLh/QvWy46SEeZKsHD0/Pzmi7l2Bm8wVMTESf W8ctLqr8/mSpO//rkywwOGCfiGMHTdvqHCSGgNOyr031rBelgAZaxpiZH g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFACTiI1GtJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABEwDuBDRZzgh8BAQEEAQEBNzQbAgEIEQQBAQEKFBAhBgsdCAIEARIIEgGHZQMOAQywJYZADYlWBIw3gRCBFiYSgl9hA5RQjR6FFYMHgWk+ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,697,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="178902993" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2013 20:39:52 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1JKdq33029632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:39:52 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.138]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 14:39:52 -0600 From: "Suhas Nandakumar (snandaku)" To: Arturo Servin , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgma0hVOXFwAfkWVdayDlfW3BZiAXgkAgAAHLYCAAAVhAIAADS2AgAANeoCAAG3lgIAANZSAgAC8XICAAAdZgIAAAt4AgAAC64CAAAYZAIAABV6AgAAHOoD//6El8g== Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: <37D91FC30D69DE43B61E5EEADD959F1807C531D3@xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <5123C969.2050103@bogus.com> <5123CBD0.2000300@dcrocker.net> <5123CE43.9070109@bogus.com> <6DDE8662-ED7F-4367-B6A4-A23542420EC2@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5123D7E1.8060005@bogus.com>,<5123DDF1.3040704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5123DDF1.3040704@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [171.68.20.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:39:56 -0000 I just booked Walt Disney World Dolphin , Sheraton Hotels and i think it is= couple of miles from the meeting venue.=0A= =0A= ./Suhas=0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf= of Arturo Servin [arturo.servin@gmail.com]=0A= Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:17 PM=0A= To: 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels=0A= =0A= Come on guys, we are going to be in a nice hotel with hot water,=0A= electricity, Internet, food and air conditioning.=0A= =0A= Sorry to be the one with the bad news, but many Internet engineers = in=0A= the world work without these privileges. So, let's focus on working on=0A= doing good standards and stop complaining.=0A= =0A= Cheers,=0A= /as=0A= =0A= =0A= On 19/02/2013 19:52, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= > On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote:=0A= >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= >>> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:=0A= >>>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= >>>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:=0A= >>>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.g.= =0A= >>>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does= =0A= >>>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One= =0A= >>>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plenar= y=0A= >>>>>> meeting.=0A= >>>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in advanc= e=0A= >>>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small.= =0A= >>>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean?=0A= >>> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the=0A= >>> ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that=0A= >>> satisfy that constraint=0A= >> But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the few=0A= >> (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary?=0A= > In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I=0A= > observed.=0A= >=0A= > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a=0A= > referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide= =0A= > to do that, the locations are known.=0A= >=0A= > So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal=0A= > purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please=0A= > communicate that to the appropiate parties.=0A= >> Tim=0A= >> _______________________________________________=0A= >> 86attendees mailing list=0A= >> 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= >>=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > 86attendees mailing list=0A= > 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= _______________________________________________=0A= 86attendees mailing list=0A= 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Tue Feb 19 18:33:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C98321F857A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:33:24 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id avKGnLuppXOK for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB4021F859C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:33:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361327603; x=1392863603; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject; bh=18FCIzMN8Ns3KzsfPGmolNRvH6tfD+TC7eXtUNYrKzQ=; b=wzB3324TBlutacna6ZtE5bpH2bM/s48wjFrMpKMTjPC6/Vir8lSUm2sz Sn2sZ68V8WoQI+s55aJj7NitUKJQPjPR/cAeQXp2Azk+eM8dXO8v7BNnp qVN2hGuFf6lxDk+H8dyHP5p/PaVkMyN+DOqtTBcXorULZXAppJz2r/2fU I=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,698,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24224450" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2013 18:33:23 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,698,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="489297255" Received: from myvpn-r-02789.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [10.184.127.96]) ([10.64.7.228]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2013 18:33:20 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:30:04 -0800 To: Pat Thaler , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:33:24 -0000 At 6:23 PM +0000 2/19/13, Pat Thaler wrote: > The cost profile is pretty good both on room rate for attendees and > conference costs. I will note that NENA, a significantly smaller conference, managed to negotiate much cheaper room rates. Of course, I have no idea what the factors are (e.g., how far in advance, time/date, etc.) > The network is good - I've never heard internet complaints at this venue. The times I've stayed, the network has been OK. Not very good for Skype but OK for other things. But how will it stand up to an IETF? Are we taking it over? -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End. From joelja@bogus.com Tue Feb 19 18:49:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80BB621F86EF for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.126, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UaQxRRPUrmO1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BDA21F86EA for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from joels-MacBook-Air.local (c-24-5-127-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.5.127.59]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1K2nEdg014098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:14 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <512439A5.5000605@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:49:09 -0800 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:19.0) Gecko/20130117 Thunderbird/19.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randall Gellens , Pat Thaler , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:46 -0000 On 2/19/13 6:30 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > > The times I've stayed, the network has been OK. Not very good for > Skype but OK for other things. But how will it stand up to an IETF? > Are we taking it over? > The IETF/IEEE contractor is taking over the residential network. > > From randy@qti.qualcomm.com Tue Feb 19 20:08:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F210D21F887F for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:08:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IX0cj2mUaMd for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C708E21F886B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:08:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361333282; x=1392869282; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:from:subject: mime-version; bh=gC1UDiaH66JbBo2lGdb9B2ahbE4bBZgMZJDq70SCDJs=; b=eb25Wp2ldhL1XhkHJH1yivKiIojkTAS+fMdhokxTr/b7IJVYsj9AOjs0 OBDNWmaNsiSJvGLng1c21dpef323n9ggE7p8pF4yfO+brq1kIHn1OX5op NpsB2qAmt4+JCKq5lDDNAfYVBW3SdDNf1bAyGwriH0VCNXOH5OOtH/kbZ s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,699,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24242437" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2013 20:08:02 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,699,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="489333719" Received: from nasanexhc07.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.190]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 19 Feb 2013 20:08:02 -0800 Received: from [10.184.127.96] (172.30.39.5) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.190) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:08:01 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <512439A5.5000605@bogus.com> References: <5122792D.6010305@stpeter.im> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120622FE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <9F58ED71-9AF4-4299-BA61-D1190B5DD29C@ericsson.com> <58D6AC01-90B6-41B7-9B13-D404F214A95C@ecs.soton.ac.uk> <5122F84B.6060809@bogus.com> <512439A5.5000605@bogus.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:03:05 -0800 To: joel jaeggli , Pat Thaler , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Originating-IP: [172.30.39.5] Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:08:13 -0000 At 6:49 PM -0800 2/19/13, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 2/19/13 6:30 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: >> >> The times I've stayed, the network has been OK. Not very good for >> Skype but OK for other things. But how will it stand up to an >> IETF? Are we taking it over? >> > The IETF/IEEE contractor is taking over the residential network. Glad to hear it! -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- He had occasional flashes of silence that made his conversation perfectly delightful. --Sydney Smith From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Feb 20 01:14:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F2821F872C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:14:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.334, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6P65CRx81hFz for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A018C21F869E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:14:33 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFAP0QA1HGmAcF/2dsb2JhbABFgkgju2cWc4IeAQEBAQMSG1wCAQgNBAQBAQsLEgcyFAkIAgQBEggah20BC6FYnHAEjQ58glRhA5waijuCd4FmPg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208,217";a="49498105" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 04:12:29 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.11]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 04:12:37 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.11]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:14:57 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Kevin Craemer , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . Thread-Index: AQHOC6osWtERRljObUurZUuTIzO7DJiCfTBA Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:14:56 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84AZFFEXMB04globala_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:14:43 -0000 --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84AZFFEXMB04globala_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I believe that it's 2/20, it's 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but there is no o= nline registration available at the Web page. Am I the only one encounterin= g problems, am I missing something? Thanks and Regards, Dan From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Kevin Craemer Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . Information on panelists will be posted at: https://www.internetsociety.org/internet-society-briefing-panel-ietf-86 Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet Society panel events, we= are providing you with advance information on registration. Online registr= ation will open in two time blocks to account for the broad range of home t= imezones of IETF participants. Half of the available seats will open for r= egistration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The other half will be = made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration form link at the webpa= ge above at these times. --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84AZFFEXMB04globala_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 <= /p>

I believe that it’s= 2/20, it’s 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but there is no online reg= istration available at the Web page. Am I the only one encountering problem= s, am I missing something?

 <= /p>

Thanks and Regards,<= /o:p>

 <= /p>

Dan

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: 86attend= ees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Craemer
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM
To: 86attendees@ietf.org
Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King = . . .

 

 

Information on panelists will be posted at:

 

Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet S= ociety panel events, we are providing you with advance information on regis= tration. Online registration will open in two time blocks to account for th= e broad range of home timezones of IETF participants.  Half of the available seats will open for registr= ation at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The other half will be made a= vailable at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration form link at the webpage abo= ve at these times.

 

 

--_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84AZFFEXMB04globala_-- From gvandeve@cisco.com Wed Feb 20 01:22:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4DD221F8750 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:22:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9pPyL3m+gFY for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:22:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2919221F8771 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:22:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9613; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361352172; x=1362561772; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=Uy3PLerNtaV/Kr1S+oiP39HpoEc6WPn8k5YSYSBwglA=; b=B91Mja5AlRWz0LQdNv40Idfwzr1mkA9Iwc6rgQlrQ+cnFYT9XT3Oo395 kCH6r1yZtF/UIHckPEMg7FlWzCMNHO8MFjEwzJUBTXrhc3G/IwmcxHQ6p AeUwO5zZeEVv0+gqFTvafb/qHM2USMY0pnDj2vRqjopltPF7nN2Sn6dSU A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFALGVJFGtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABFgkO+EX8Wc4IfAQEBBC1cAgEIEQQBAQsLEgcyFAkIAgQBEgiICgy/SQSNR4EWJgcKAQqCVWEDpwODB4FpPg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,699,1355097600"; d="scan'208,217";a="179067257" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 09:22:31 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1K9MVnI013407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:22:31 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.138]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:22:30 -0600 From: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Kevin Craemer , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . Thread-Index: AQHOC6odRnW19024IUW/KYD6Hcq8T5iC4sAA//+cvfA= Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:22:29 +0000 Message-ID: <67832B1175062E48926BF3CB27C49B240C8A7C8A@xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.88.241] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_67832B1175062E48926BF3CB27C49B240C8A7C8Axmbalnx12ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:22:55 -0000 --_000_67832B1175062E48926BF3CB27C49B240C8A7C8Axmbalnx12ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ditto for me G/ From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Romascanu, Dan (Dan) Sent: 20 February 2013 10:15 To: Kevin Craemer; 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . .= . Hi, I believe that it's 2/20, it's 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but there is no o= nline registration available at the Web page. Am I the only one encounterin= g problems, am I missing something? Thanks and Regards, Dan From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [ma= ilto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Craemer Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . Information on panelists will be posted at: https://www.internetsociety.org/internet-society-briefing-panel-ietf-86 Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet Society panel events, we= are providing you with advance information on registration. Online registr= ation will open in two time blocks to account for the broad range of home t= imezones of IETF participants. Half of the available seats will open for r= egistration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The other half will be = made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration form link at the webpa= ge above at these times. --_000_67832B1175062E48926BF3CB27C49B240C8A7C8Axmbalnx12ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ditto for me

 <= /p>

G/

 <= /p>

From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
Sent: 20 February 2013 10:15
To: Kevin Craemer; 86attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is K= ing . . .

 

Hi,

 = ;

I believe = that it’s 2/20, it’s 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but there i= s no online registration available at the Web page. Am I the only one encou= ntering problems, am I missing something?

 = ;

Thanks and= Regards,

 = ;

Dan

 = ;

 = ;

 = ;

From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.or= g [mailto:86attendees-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Craemer
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM
To: 86attendees@ietf.org=
Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King = . . .

 

 

Information on panelists will b= e posted at:

 

Due to high demand for limited = seating at Internet Society panel events, we are providing you with advance= information on registration. Online registration will open in two time blo= cks to account for the broad range of home timezones of IETF participants.  Half of the available seats wil= l open for registration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 February. The other h= alf will be made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a registration form link = at the webpage above at these times.

 

 

--_000_67832B1175062E48926BF3CB27C49B240C8A7C8Axmbalnx12ciscoc_-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Feb 20 02:14:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74BB21F86EA for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:14:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KueTSsL-+570 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABF3721F844D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KAE0qB030602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:14:00 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KAE0t4014612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:14:00 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:13:59 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "arturo.servin@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: Ac4PUv8Fpc3yP+uHQru8ko/Z36xjig== Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:13:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.118] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3256 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361355240-0000547A-6F39C004/0-0/0-0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:14:03 -0000 Which food do you mean? The steak for 43$ in the hotel or the pizza slice o= ver the street? To get an hamburger in the hotel you most likely will wait more than hour i= n the queue. I also doubt the small mall over the street will have something eatable or = is open in the evening at all. Cheers, Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of ext Arturo Servin > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:18 PM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels > > > Come on guys, we are going to be in a nice hotel with hot water, > electricity, Internet, food and air conditioning. > > Sorry to be the one with the bad news, but many Internet engineers = in > the world work without these privileges. So, let's focus on working on > doing good standards and stop complaining. > > Cheers, > /as > > > On 19/02/2013 19:52, joel jaeggli wrote: > > On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote: > >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote: > >>> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: > >>>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: > >>>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: > >>>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: e.= g. > >>>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There does > >>>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. One > >>>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE plen= ary > >>>>>> meeting. > >>>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in adva= nce > >>>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather small= . > >>>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? > >>> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with the > >>> ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes that > >>> satisfy that constraint > >> But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the few > >> (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary? > > In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I > > observed. > > > > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a > > referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you decide > > to do that, the locations are known. > > > > So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal > > purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please > > communicate that to the appropiate parties. > >> Tim > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 86attendees mailing list > >> 86attendees@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 86attendees mailing list > > 86attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From ford@isoc.org Wed Feb 20 02:34:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1106621F877A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:34:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jb6Pfiz+D8cG for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp121.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp121.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.121]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B2721F8771 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp22.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DC62F1706B5; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:34:57 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp22.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ford-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id E528D170512; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:34:56 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Matthew Ford In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:34:54 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, gvandeve@cisco.com, Kevin Craemer Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:34:59 -0000 Apologies for the delay folks, this appears to be working now. Mat On 20 Feb 2013, at 09:14, "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" = wrote: > Hi, > =20 > I believe that it=92s 2/20, it=92s 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but = there is no online registration available at the Web page. Am I the only = one encountering problems, am I missing something? > =20 > Thanks and Regards, > =20 > Dan > =20 > =20 > =20 > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Craemer > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . = . . > =20 > =20 > Information on panelists will be posted at: > = https://www.internetsociety.org/internet-society-briefing-panel-ietf-86 > =20 > Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet Society panel = events, we are providing you with advance information on registration. = Online registration will open in two time blocks to account for the = broad range of home timezones of IETF participants. Half of the = available seats will open for registration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 = February. The other half will be made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a = registration form link at the webpage above at these times. > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Feb 20 02:47:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9449E21F8775 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:47:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.927 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.927 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.328, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x9IODAOBhVKx for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B50321F871E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:47:46 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAP0QA1HGmAcF/2dsb2JhbABFgmu7ZxZzgh4BAQEBAwEBAQ8oNAsMBAIBCA0EBAEBAQoLCQkHJwsUCQgCBA4FCBqHbQELoViccASNDnyCVGEDnBqKO4J3gWY+ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="49507904" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 05:45:42 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.13]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 05:45:49 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.13]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:48:09 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Matthew Ford Thread-Topic: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . Thread-Index: AQHOC6osWtERRljObUurZUuTIzO7DJiCfTBAgABrJAD//6+8MA== Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:48:08 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FCEC@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FC84@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, "gvandeve@cisco.com" , Kevin Craemer Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . . . X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:47:49 -0000 It is working and I registered.=20 Thank you, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Ford [mailto:ford@isoc.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:35 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: Kevin Craemer; 86attendees@ietf.org; gvandeve@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King > . . . >=20 > Apologies for the delay folks, this appears to be working now. >=20 > Mat >=20 >=20 > On 20 Feb 2013, at 09:14, "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" > wrote: >=20 > > Hi, > > > > I believe that it's 2/20, it's 10+ minutes past 9:00 UTC, but there is > no online registration available at the Web page. Am I the only one > encountering problems, am I missing something? > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Craemer > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 8:27 PM > > To: 86attendees@ietf.org > > Subject: [86attendees] ISOC@IETF 86 Briefing Panel: Content is King . > . . > > > > > > Information on panelists will be posted at: > > https://www.internetsociety.org/internet-society-briefing-panel-ietf- > 86 > > > > Due to high demand for limited seating at Internet Society panel > events, we are providing you with advance information on registration. > Online registration will open in two time blocks to account for the > broad range of home timezones of IETF participants. Half of the > available seats will open for registration at 09:00 UTC on Wednesday, 20 > February. The other half will be made available at 21:00 UTC. Look for a > registration form link at the webpage above at these times. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 86attendees mailing list > > 86attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From dromasca@avaya.com Wed Feb 20 02:49:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B8C21F84F4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.178, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGCJYhz825xL for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595C121F84ED for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 02:49:56 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgIFAP0QA1GHCzI1/2dsb2JhbABFgmu7ZxZzgh4BAQEBAwEBAQ8oNAsMBAIBCA0EBAEBAQoUCQchBgsUCQgBAQQBDQUIEgEHh1sDDwELoViTEg2JUQSMDYEBg1BhA5Q2AYdjhSmFEoJ3gWY+ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,541,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="344388826" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.53]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 05:52:25 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.13]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 05:48:57 -0500 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC03.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.13]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 05:50:18 -0500 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "arturo.servin@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: Ac4PUv8Fzt98ijqrk0mxlS5nWBS2YgABMmag Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:50:18 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FD00@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:49:57 -0000 Hopefully the secretariat will organize some form of buffet/catering for lu= nch, as it has been done in other occasions. There is plenty of space in th= e facility, and if several cash registers will work in parallel the lines w= ill not be that bad.=20 Regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:14 PM > To: arturo.servin@gmail.com > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels >=20 > Which food do you mean? The steak for 43$ in the hotel or the pizza > slice over the street? >=20 > To get an hamburger in the hotel you most likely will wait more than > hour in the queue. >=20 > I also doubt the small mall over the street will have something eatable > or is open in the evening at all. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Mehmet >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- >=20 > > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees- > bounces@ietf.org] On >=20 > > Behalf Of ext Arturo Servin >=20 > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:18 PM >=20 > > To: 86attendees@ietf.org >=20 > > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > Come on guys, we are going to be in a nice hotel with hot water, >=20 > > electricity, Internet, food and air conditioning. >=20 > > >=20 > > Sorry to be the one with the bad news, but many Internet > engineers in >=20 > > the world work without these privileges. So, let's focus on working on >=20 > > doing good standards and stop complaining. >=20 > > >=20 > > Cheers, >=20 > > /as >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > On 19/02/2013 19:52, joel jaeggli wrote: >=20 > > > On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote: >=20 > > >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote: >=20 > > >>> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >=20 > > >>>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >=20 > > >>>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote: >=20 > > >>>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas: > e.g. >=20 > > >>>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There > does >=20 > > >>>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area. > One >=20 > > >>>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE > plenary >=20 > > >>>>>> meeting. >=20 > > >>>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in > advance >=20 > > >>>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather > small. >=20 > > >>>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean? >=20 > > >>> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with > the >=20 > > >>> ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes > that >=20 > > >>> satisfy that constraint >=20 > > >> But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the > few >=20 > > >> (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary? >=20 > > > In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I >=20 > > > observed. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a >=20 > > > referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you > decide >=20 > > > to do that, the locations are known. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal >=20 > > > purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please >=20 > > > communicate that to the appropiate parties. >=20 > > >> Tim >=20 > > >> _______________________________________________ >=20 > > >> 86attendees mailing list >=20 > > >> 86attendees@ietf.org >=20 > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > > >> >=20 > > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ >=20 > > > 86attendees mailing list >=20 > > > 86attendees@ietf.org >=20 > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > > _______________________________________________ >=20 > > 86attendees mailing list >=20 > > 86attendees@ietf.org >=20 > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Feb 20 03:00:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1DDB21F872C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:00:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sLm7CH9BghAn for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E620D21F871E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KB0Mnr013687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:00:22 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KB0L5G024126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:00:21 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC012.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.43) by DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:00:21 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC012.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.43]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:00:21 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , "arturo.servin@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: Ac4PUv8Fpc3yP+uHQru8ko/Z36xjiv//+WMAgAAS0Ec= Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:00:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FD00@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FD00@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.119] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 5494 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361358022-00001023-9AF4C783/0-0/0-0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:00:35 -0000 Hi Dan,=0A= =0A= I can imagine this will work for lunch. I actually don't need much more tha= n a quick sandwich during the day.=0A= My main concern is actually because of the dinner.=0A= =0A= Cheers,=0A= Mehmet=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: ext Romascanu, Dan (Dan) [dromasca@avaya.com]=0A= Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 11:50 AM=0A= To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); arturo.servin@gmail.com=0A= Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= Subject: RE: [86attendees] back-up hotels=0A= =0A= Hopefully the secretariat will organize some form of buffet/catering for lu= nch, as it has been done in other occasions. There is plenty of space in th= e facility, and if several cash registers will work in parallel the lines w= ill not be that bad.=0A= =0A= Regards,=0A= =0A= Dan=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= > -----Original Message-----=0A= > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org]= =0A= > On Behalf Of Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)=0A= > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:14 PM=0A= > To: arturo.servin@gmail.com=0A= > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels=0A= >=0A= > Which food do you mean? The steak for 43$ in the hotel or the pizza=0A= > slice over the street?=0A= >=0A= > To get an hamburger in the hotel you most likely will wait more than=0A= > hour in the queue.=0A= >=0A= > I also doubt the small mall over the street will have something eatable= =0A= > or is open in the evening at all.=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Cheers,=0A= >=0A= > Mehmet=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > > -----Original Message-----=0A= >=0A= > > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-=0A= > bounces@ietf.org] On=0A= >=0A= > > Behalf Of ext Arturo Servin=0A= >=0A= > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:18 PM=0A= >=0A= > > To: 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= >=0A= > > Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > > Come on guys, we are going to be in a nice hotel with hot water,= =0A= >=0A= > > electricity, Internet, food and air conditioning.=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > > Sorry to be the one with the bad news, but many Internet=0A= > engineers in=0A= >=0A= > > the world work without these privileges. So, let's focus on working on= =0A= >=0A= > > doing good standards and stop complaining.=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > > Cheers,=0A= >=0A= > > /as=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= >=0A= > > On 19/02/2013 19:52, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > > On 2/19/13 11:32 AM, Tim Chown wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > >> On 19 Feb 2013, at 19:10, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > >>> On 2/19/13 11:00 AM, Dave Crocker wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > >>>> On 2/19/2013 10:50 AM, joel jaeggli wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>> On 2/19/13 10:23 AM, Pat Thaler wrote:=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>>> Most of the IEEE 802 plenary venues are in city downtown areas:= =0A= > e.g.=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>>> San Diego, San Francisco, San Antonio, Dallas, Atlanta. There=0A= > does=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>>> tend to be one meeting every two years or so in a resort area.= =0A= > One=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>>> can't blame the choice of Orlando on collocating with an IEEE=0A= > plenary=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>>> meeting.=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>> The dates for both sets of meetings are fixed several years in=0A= > advance=0A= >=0A= > > >>>>> so (despite the occasional move) the solution space is rather=0A= > small.=0A= >=0A= > > >>>> I don't understand your comment. What do you mean?=0A= >=0A= > > >>> If you want to meet in adjoining week in the same location with=0A= > the=0A= >=0A= > > >>> ieee 802 plenary there are limited number of possible outcomes=0A= > that=0A= >=0A= > > >>> satisfy that constraint=0A= >=0A= > > >> But again, why are we compromising our selection of venue for the=0A= > few=0A= >=0A= > > >> (how many?) who want to attend an IEEE 802 plenary?=0A= >=0A= > > > In my very first response to this thread. which was to you no less I= =0A= >=0A= > > > observed.=0A= >=0A= > > >=0A= >=0A= > > > Before this is over I imagine this discussion will amount to a=0A= >=0A= > > > referendum on colocation with the IEEE plenary, because once you=0A= > decide=0A= >=0A= > > > to do that, the locations are known.=0A= >=0A= > > >=0A= >=0A= > > > So yes if you believe that colocation with the IEEE for experimnetal= =0A= >=0A= > > > purposes or otherwise should never be a consideration then please=0A= >=0A= > > > communicate that to the appropiate parties.=0A= >=0A= > > >> Tim=0A= >=0A= > > >> _______________________________________________=0A= >=0A= > > >> 86attendees mailing list=0A= >=0A= > > >> 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= >=0A= > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= >=0A= > > >>=0A= >=0A= > > >=0A= >=0A= > > > _______________________________________________=0A= >=0A= > > > 86attendees mailing list=0A= >=0A= > > > 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= >=0A= > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= >=0A= > > _______________________________________________=0A= >=0A= > > 86attendees mailing list=0A= >=0A= > > 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= >=0A= > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > 86attendees mailing list=0A= > 86attendees@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=0A= From ietf@johnlevine.com Wed Feb 20 03:18:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF00021F8703 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:18:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b+fAdXSUpMjo for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874D621F86F0 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11764 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2013 11:18:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=2df3.5124b10c.k1302; bh=+WVi13Kfc4Ge2I+10XDPaLat/+BoqcoGazrLP1Kknho=; b=sjBQ4quGJJ3OnMZT8yzc1fhvLAnESxtBwGFUOg2wZDqaBRFiD6MqbWZGyVfk/er6HEQ0w06L2f4zP4ntMuyzikMeyysx+d/G16jVNUuuFWZakR0tr3Qysputx60U396tMFJlnDyrhzMKKkDWSdfRefMeHPTLwpXRYDptlSovaqQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=johnlevine.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=2df3.5124b10c.k1302; bh=+WVi13Kfc4Ge2I+10XDPaLat/+BoqcoGazrLP1Kknho=; b=CdGvxftvKMbF8LEM/ihdvqrNK/Y+HhEPz25hhwcKbKrmfCnQe666pCZ9SY9Eo9b2C0ysgDjR+vqGuD2LWEc8spOnD8u1FnK/VkrN4CwB640AjzNbiYLzyDMxkDLP2TFkKYMednUk2SY36nD0rLF0vvU/X1LsjuN40sTgV4xfVPM= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 20 Feb 2013 11:18:14 -0000 Date: 20 Feb 2013 12:18:35 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: References: , <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FD00@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:18:38 -0000 > My main concern is actually because of the dinner. A lot of us will have cars. Think of it as an opportunity to make new friends. R's, John From ynir@checkpoint.com Wed Feb 20 03:22:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C84121F8718 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:22:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4q55cQfrnKge for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B2A21F8703 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1KBMdwo014568; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:22:39 +0200 X-CheckPoint: {5124AD7B-0-1B221DC2-2FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.54]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.95]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:22:39 +0200 From: Yoav Nir To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHOD1wPNljvLZbEMUOFaqEIc6t8upiCeOiA Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:22:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA08FD00@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [91.90.139.159] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] [johnlevine.com-ietf] Re: back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:22:42 -0000 On Feb 20, 2013, at 1:18 PM, John R Levine wrote: >> My main concern is actually because of the dinner. >=20 > A lot of us will have cars. Think of it as an opportunity to make new fr= iends. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4144#section-5 From john+ietf@jck.com Wed Feb 20 06:15:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BA821F8721 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:15:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qq3k79YXzTKg for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119FA21F8726 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ASD-000FJd-Cl; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:15:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:15:20 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Ray Pelletier Message-ID: <6F9FE6CDFEB2639BAD55216D@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:15:27 -0000 --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 06:55 -0500 Ray Pelletier wrote: > The IAOC has arranged for buses for Monday through Friday in > Orlando to transport people to locations where there are > restaurants. > > Buses will go to and from these three destinations from 6:30 - > 11:30 PM EST: > 1. Downtown Disney > 2. Pointe Orlando > 3. Universal Orlando. Ray, Purely as a clarifying question (I'll leave any editorial or critical comments to others, at least for now): That is 6:30PM to 11:30PM, correct? Hence it is useful for dinner, but not lunch or breakfast, much less transport to or from alternate hotels, correct? john From rpelletier@isoc.org Wed Feb 20 07:11:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9DFA21F87BA for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:11:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sw33NkHEpIZ8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp97.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp97.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.97]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F8F21F87B1 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id EEA921B00D9; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:11:29 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp5.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id B8A301B007E; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:11:29 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: <132CAE92F5D51B521AFA10B9@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:11:28 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1282D896-C903-4003-B07E-4970D0664F63@isoc.org> References: <34DDD989-1252-44F0-9798-645DB670BAA6@isoc.org> <132CAE92F5D51B521AFA10B9@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:11:30 -0000 On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:58 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 06:55 -0500 Ray Pelletier > wrote: > >> The IAOC has arranged for buses for Monday through Friday in >> Orlando to transport people to locations where there are >> restaurants. >> >> Buses will go to and from these three destinations from 6:30 - >> 11:30 PM EST: >> 1. Downtown Disney >> 2. Pointe Orlando >> 3. Universal Orlando. > > Ray, > > Purely as a clarifying question (I'll leave any editorial or > critical comments to others, at least for now): > > That is 6:30PM to 11:30PM, correct? Yes. > Hence it is useful for > dinner, but not lunch or breakfast, much less transport to or > from alternate hotels, correct? Correct. Ray > > john > > > From bob.hinden@gmail.com Wed Feb 20 07:25:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E0F21F8821 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.267 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.267 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 82xENcWzSjMx for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ee0-f51.google.com (mail-ee0-f51.google.com [74.125.83.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06AF221F86F0 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ee0-f51.google.com with SMTP id d17so3979258eek.24 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=DV2enkX0VF9g0Cb2DoJE9Ge8CfUWFRjxTqc5pL8/TnU=; b=GJYTbLzGul9zX3yMShl4JS5Hi++uZfMIGo8ysZcBks3EABQmA0CYQHERJsdr2nI/28 JwnE1r2y4kQrWQE1PSzRa6vRn6h1z3aMVLojDKsv94RwG7RYLCKoneJXks6czci7BJWT /WVpfQAKonvVfjETq1VVPyFC3YjTqn87g9gFjCNMaK0higJajZUDejJZx+UuVk/mLzoY L5z3aDEgk/kEDrvwQpTZewPYvLU8TbnydHdvG/hY+hzdGy38/iFjvZiHW7y474hNdG6w tdvr7OOQrk1HGH6Cw0NTfnRK52WgdYuCJ9tTNQksxV1sjcuXvvet547Q2bbqT8hbI14w l5RA== X-Received: by 10.14.173.196 with SMTP id v44mr69675262eel.29.1361373947390; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.24.248.238] (dyn32-131.checkpoint.com. [194.29.32.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l8sm75864868een.10.2013.02.20.07.25.44 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:25:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <1282D896-C903-4003-B07E-4970D0664F63@isoc.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:25:43 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1188B356-8F86-4087-AD76-13A895E4D186@gmail.com> References: <34DDD989-1252-44F0-9798-645DB670BAA6@isoc.org> <132CAE92F5D51B521AFA10B9@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <1282D896-C903-4003-B07E-4970D0664F63@isoc.org> To: John C C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: Ray Pelletier , Bob Hinden , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:25:52 -0000 John, >> Hence it is useful for >> dinner, but not lunch or breakfast, much less transport to or >> from alternate hotels, correct? >=20 > Correct. > Ray To add to that a little. We looked at doing it for lunch as well, but = concluded that there wasn't enough time take the bus, have lunch, and = take a bus back so to be back in time for the first afternoon session. Bob From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Feb 20 07:28:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BCD21F8586 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:28:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f9CD+EbsT2Wl for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 518BE21F858A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KFSBe4013680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:28:11 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1KFSB0l031034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:28:11 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC008.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.39) by DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:28:11 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC008.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.39]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:28:11 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Bob Hinden , John C C Klensin Thread-Topic: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle Thread-Index: AQHOD36Vs6OanyjXJUO7B9eRqYcnFZiC3k0x Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:28:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <34DDD989-1252-44F0-9798-645DB670BAA6@isoc.org> <132CAE92F5D51B521AFA10B9@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <1282D896-C903-4003-B07E-4970D0664F63@isoc.org>, <1188B356-8F86-4087-AD76-13A895E4D186@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1188B356-8F86-4087-AD76-13A895E4D186@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 1034 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361374091-00001023-6933B324/0-0/0-0 Cc: Ray Pelletier , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:28:17 -0000 Indeed. There is not much time during lunch. The provided shuttle bus service was exactly what I was asking for. Thank y= ou. Cheers, Mehmet ________________________________________ From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf= of ext Bob Hinden [bob.hinden@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 4:25 PM To: John C C Klensin Cc: Ray Pelletier; Bob Hinden; 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle John, >> Hence it is useful for >> dinner, but not lunch or breakfast, much less transport to or >> from alternate hotels, correct? > > Correct. > Ray To add to that a little. We looked at doing it for lunch as well, but conc= luded that there wasn't enough time take the bus, have lunch, and take a bu= s back so to be back in time for the first afternoon session. Bob _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees= From john+ietf@jck.com Wed Feb 20 09:18:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDA121F8930 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:18:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cJ1OUN1uRy16 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E1FF21F892D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8DIu-000FYG-V1; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:18:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:17:56 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Bob Hinden Message-ID: <326959BE039B1AD9C85C59D8@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <1188B356-8F86-4087-AD76-13A895E4D186@gmail.com> References: <34DDD989-1252-44F0-9798-645DB670BAA6@isoc.org> <132CAE92F5D51B521AFA10B9@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <1282D896-C903-4003-B07E-4970D0664F63@isoc.org> <1188B356-8F86-4087-AD76-13A895E4D186@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Ray Pelletier , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Orlando Bus Shuttle X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:18:03 -0000 --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 17:25 +0200 Bob Hinden wrote: > John, > >>> Hence it is useful for >>> dinner, but not lunch or breakfast, much less transport to or >>> from alternate hotels, correct? >> >> Correct. >> Ray > To add to that a little. We looked at doing it for lunch as > well, but concluded that there wasn't enough time take the > bus, have lunch, and take a bus back so to be back in time for > the first afternoon session. As I said, it was just a question for clarification, not a complaint. I believe that some of the complaints and associated issues are fundamentally different from the usual pre-meeting location-related whining, but am not yet at the point of wanting to be drawn into those discussions. john From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Wed Feb 20 10:19:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E156721F87D1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.746 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.485, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_PHARMACY=1, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SdMGrpwHk2Zr for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9B521F8771 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.115]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57198111; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:47:45 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.77]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::492e:3fa1:c2ad:e04e%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:17:56 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Randall Gellens , "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmavJ6vHfVltUOhgx8jKiWHKpiATUYA//+zXHeAAFzcgIAAkdcAgAIh1AA= Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD41716165FBE3@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [24.40.56.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9E83D96F41F4B043A800700A647E955E@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:19:09 -0000 On 2/18/13 11:44 PM, "Randall Gellens" wrote: >At 9:02 PM +0100 2/18/13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > >> I guess no walking distance meal choices > >There are two "restaurants" that are in a strip mall across the >"street" -- a Chinese buffet and a pizza place. Neither look like a >place that is any good, but of course everyone's tastes are >different. There is also a CVS pharmacy there. Based on reviews of the buffet, that's very positive. You can eat at the buffet and go straight to CVS for some stomach remedies afterwards. ;-) Jason From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Wed Feb 20 10:19:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5F921F88B0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.286 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.286 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.945, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPGrW3q37R1u for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E544821F88A9 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.116]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57198503; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:49:19 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.77]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::5527:6d6b:29a7:f414%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:19:31 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Randall Gellens , joel jaeggli , Pat Thaler , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODxIwvJ6vHfVltUOhgx8jKiWHKpiCX2OAgAAUqICAAJt9AA== Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD41716165FBFC@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [24.40.56.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <842416CE9FBF02438D13365907ED7B05@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:19:49 -0000 On 2/19/13 11:03 PM, "Randall Gellens" wrote: >At 6:49 PM -0800 2/19/13, joel jaeggli wrote: > >> On 2/19/13 6:30 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: >>> >>> The times I've stayed, the network has been OK. Not very good for >>> Skype but OK for other things. But how will it stand up to an >>> IETF? Are we taking it over? >>> >> The IETF/IEEE contractor is taking over the residential network. > >Glad to hear it! Yes, the network should be excellent! Connectivity is being sponsored by BrightHouse Networks, and the location is on their fiber network. http://ietf86.com/index.php/sponsors Jason From chris_griffiths@cable.comcast.com Wed Feb 20 12:29:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC9D21E8039 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:29:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.466, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_PHARMACY=1, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QJkKJH8hCvEK for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A8C21E8030 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.115]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57234342; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:57:40 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB15.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.2.242]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::492e:3fa1:c2ad:e04e%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:27:52 -0500 From: "Griffiths, Chris" To: "Livingood, Jason" , Randall Gellens , "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] back-up hotels Thread-Index: AQHODgmavJ6vHfVltUOhgx8jKiWHKpiATUYA//+zXHeAAFzcgIAAkdcAgAIh1ACAAHgogA== Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:27:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD41716165FBE3@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD41716165FBE3@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [24.40.55.73] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1913879AB01A194E82E23A53379F4D28@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] back-up hotels X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 20:29:06 -0000 On Feb 20, 2013, at 1:17 PM, "Livingood, Jason" wrote: > On 2/18/13 11:44 PM, "Randall Gellens" wrote: >=20 >=20 >> At 9:02 PM +0100 2/18/13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: >>=20 >>> I guess no walking distance meal choices >>=20 >> There are two "restaurants" that are in a strip mall across the >> "street" -- a Chinese buffet and a pizza place. Neither look like a >> place that is any good, but of course everyone's tastes are >> different. There is also a CVS pharmacy there. >=20 > Based on reviews of the buffet, that's very positive. You can eat at the > buffet and go straight to CVS for some stomach remedies afterwards. ;-) I recently stayed at the Caribe for two different trips this past month and= there is a very easy walking trail along the highway past the sister hotel= Buena Vista Suites that is well used, and there are several strip malls an= d standalone restaurants about 1 mile away (Approximately 15 min walk one w= ay) with various coffee shops, stores, and restaurants. Usually the weathe= r is pretty nice in March, so this maybe an option for people to leverage. = Overall I was very impressed with the facility at the Caribe, and chose to= stay there for my second second trip.=20 -- Chris= From lars@netapp.com Wed Feb 20 13:06:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329EC21E804A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.346 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.253, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hztimA9jKv-p for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD32921E8041 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:06:29 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,703,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24638761" Received: from smtp2.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.159.114]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 13:06:29 -0800 Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.240]) by smtp2.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id r1KL6H2v014627; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.54]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:06:22 -0800 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Ray Pelletier Thread-Topic: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86 Thread-Index: AQHOD6Gik8e549DZp0Co7YBveGZCVJiDwx2A Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:06:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.115] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8638AF6742044348A221C772BF137C9D@tahoe.netapp.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86 X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:06:30 -0000 [CC'ing attendees, since 86all is a closed list] Hi, as part of the post-meeting survey, could you find out how many IETFers too= k advantage to attend the IEEE meeting, and vice versa? That would give us = some data about whether future co-location is something we should aim for. Thanks, Lars= From rpelletier@isoc.org Wed Feb 20 13:23:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E423521F8554 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tl+MdbAuqxlu for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp191.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp191.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.191]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F29521F8523 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp19.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 32FE23C8CBD; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:23:56 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp19.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id F3B963C8C84; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:23:55 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:23:55 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <59186B03-D48B-4B6D-93A5-A85199B3ADFD@isoc.org> References: To: "Eggert, Lars" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86 X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:23:57 -0000 On Feb 20, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > [CC'ing attendees, since 86all is a closed list] >=20 > Hi, >=20 > as part of the post-meeting survey, could you find out how many = IETFers took advantage to attend the IEEE meeting, and vice versa? That = would give us some data about whether future co-location is something we = should aim for. That's the plan. Thanks. Ray >=20 > Thanks, > Lars From john+ietf@jck.com Wed Feb 20 14:00:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36C521E804B for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:00:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06laV2ZYg6LN for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B2D121E8049 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8Hhp-000Ft7-Hs; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:00:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:59:56 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Ray Pelletier Message-ID: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:00:10 -0000 --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 14:36 -0500 Ray Pelletier wrote: > All > > In 2007, and perhaps earlier, the IEEE inquired as to the > desirability of holding back-to-back meetings with the IETF. > Our practice had been to avoid a clash with IEEE with a least > a week separating the meetings. > > In December 2008 the idea was presented to the IAOC that the > IETF and IEEE hold back-to-back meetings in at the Caribe > Royale in Orlando, Florida in March 2013, a venue that IEEE > was very familiar with as it had held successful meetings > there in the past. > > The purpose was save travel, time and costs for those who > attend both, as well as the potential to save the IEEE and > IETF costs with the hotel and network provider through > increased bargaining power. > > We are saving money on the network service contract for > Orlando. The site visit, shipping and engineer transportation > costs will be shared with IEEE 802, as well as one less day of > engineering time and lodging expenses. > > The IAOC approved planning for the meeting on 18 December > 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC approved the venue. As this > was a successful venue for the IEEE no site visit was > conducted prior to contracting. A site visit was conducted in > January in preparation for the meeting. > > To place this decision in context on a timeline, the > Maastricht contract was executed in April 2009. It's fair to > say site selection criteria and evaluations have evolved > significantly since then. Ray, As indicated in my earlier note, I've been trying to stay out of this, mostly because I'm just tired of the extensive whining that seems to accompany every meeting and every venue, even when I agree with parts of what is being said. However, given your note quoted above,... (1) IETF 72 was in (well, somewhere near) Dublin in July 2008. My understanding coming out of that meeting was that there was rather clear community consensus to avoid suburban or suburban-like locations that created severe limits on nearby (within convenient walking or high-frequency and quick public transport distance) hotel and meal choices. I believe that the community was told that part of the rationale for the (very slightly) similar problems with Maastrict was that there was insufficient time after the Dublin meeting to apply that lesson to a meeting only two years later (IETF 78, July 2010). To some extent, if the Maastricht contract was not executed until April 2009 -- circa nine months post-Dublin-- there should have been ample time for the Dublin message to be absorbed already (although I have a vague memory of some extenuating circumstances). More important, the Dublin message should have been available and even in recent memory by the December 2008 and May 2009 dates you give for the Orlando decisions. (2) While it was long before your time and that of the IAOC as an institution, the IETF has been in Orlando before, at IETF 43 in December 1998. My (admittedly vague) recollection was that the location was not judged a particular success for some of the same reasons that have been discussed in the recent days, including an isolated and sterile location that one could basically not escape without a car, family-tourist overload, etc.. And that meeting was held, IIR, in a "Downtown Disney" location with a much higher density of hotels and eating places to which one could actually walk and at a time which was not part of the spring vacation high season. (3) With the understanding that I have poor memory about these sorts of things, I can't remember a time when the IETF met at a particular location where the main meeting hotel didn't have enough space for the attendees (or ran out) and there was no plausible alternate hotel list supplied as part of the meeting package. I'd have some difficulty with a venue in which there was only one plausible hotel as long as that hotel actually had sufficient rooms for all of us (Dublin, if I recall, came close to that situation) but one hotel that runs out of rooms without a backup negotiated as part of the overall contractual arrangements seems to me to be much worse. I note that, as of today, there are still no alternate hotel locations on the "meeting venue" web page, just an announcement that says "...fully booked, if openings become available, we will let you know". Comments and suggestions from assorted people on the mailing list are just not a substitute for IASA-specified and at least partially-contracted alternatives, especially given the many problems we have had in the past with, e.g., network connections in secondary hotels and how difficult it is for a would-be guest to pin down hotels about what Internet facilities and capacity they actually have. (4) I believe that, in the seemingly never-ending complaining about meeting venues, one of the few clear and consistent messages from the community to the IAOC has been that saving institutional costs at the expense of significantly increasing overall costs to IETF participants was not a good (or even acceptable) tradeoff. Others have already commented about high airfare rates around the time of the meeting, the likely cost increments for food, etc., when the hotel has a near-monopoly, and even the room rates (even though they may represent a significant discount from rack rates for that particular week, they don't compare favorably with other weeks or other locations). The situation here is obviously complicated by the cost savings for those who have to attend both meetings but, noting that almost everyone in that situation is probably traveling on a corporate expense account while many of those who participate in the IETF are not, I'd guess that the overall cost savings to participants would be justified if, say, 25% of IETF attendees or more were attending both meetings. That is certainly possible, but I have my doubts. (5) While I understand that it would have led to more noise from which information would have been hard to extract, the IAOC could have said something to the community like "We are contemplating meeting back to back with an IEEE standards activity. It will bring some advantages in institutional cost savings, will result in individual (or organizational) cost savings for those who have to attend both meetings, and may permit some cross-pollination that would not occur otherwise. However, aligning our calendar and location to theirs will sacrifice some of our flexibility about dates, sites, and other criteria that we usually apply. Is the community ok with that?" Clearly, asking that question today would be pointless, but, given the schedule you outline, it could sensibly have been asked, and asked clearly, in late 2008 or early 2009 (with the Dublin experience fresh in everyone's mind, fwiw). As far as I know, it wasn't. Your message reinforces that: "the idea was presented to the IAOC", "The IAOC approved planning for the meeting on 18 December 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC approved...". And the IAOC then apparently made the decision that what works for the IEEE --a different group with different membership and requirements-- was sufficiently obviously good for the IETF that not even a pre-contract site visit (which would have presumably turned up the facilities issue given all of our recent experiences including Dublin) was thought necessary. Of course, the community bears some of the blame for that as well. Many of the people who have been complaining about Orlando in the last couple of weeks, especially those who base their remarks on previous experiences, could have started complaining in 2009 or whenever the location/contract was announced. On the other hand, by then, with the contract signed, it would have been as much too late as it is today. At the time the current administrative model was developed, I believe that the community assumed that the IAOC was supposed to work in a way that both reflected community needs and consensus --not just IETF staff and institutional needs and finances-- and that the community would be consulted when strategic decisions were under consideration. I believe that a decision to sacrifice some normal IETF criteria --criteria that were old already by the end of 2008-- in order to get the benefits of, e.g., a meeting sequentially co-located with an IEEE standards group is, in that sense, strategic. YMMD, of course, The sad part of this from my perspective isn't the Orlando situation. It is the apparent lesson that the IASA just cannot or will not learn from experience and that, since there is no possible way to recall the core IAOC membership from 2008-2009, the community has no effective way, even in principle, to deliver a strong message about these issues when the weaker messages appear to be ineffective or overruled by other considerations. sadly, john From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Wed Feb 20 15:46:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1B821E8037 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZOYAlJg9MXuR for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f176.google.com (mail-vc0-f176.google.com [209.85.220.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E4B21E8030 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id fk10so5413593vcb.35 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=HRfXsv/Xmb5ks7D+cHv9j/5Dem9gLbL/pZmyb8saWHE=; b=FX8a+7Or+iXG1H2U0aJC+9JijzpVzF3dV0uXhSwxAkIolx4dao+xeeKEQ83s/N87Kz FGyzFkm2naC64wLWOnjwnekRMcmyOfz9ELQmA1Obd+ON1RwCi5cMnVbjlq0NcE7ZMPmy erFGTWpr5Kw0Xnhox9WSUc+nRGkG+wFMqS1O5w2IfKK+BRsq12goYROT7SfVpJfkiGNl L+9F3vi6PpTpiHTcSg4X+SeuVS0hI8irNCbW4DshbIM2h3uRsFIYcTPoANj8Tag0Jx8H iqby9YKRlRsnTx4iLPwWvj0WmRtcixFb671+mcFbhRPQr0yUlWnvUaam93tnPpUwxzh1 DFRg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.18.235 with SMTP id z11mr24985657vdd.39.1361403985730; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:46:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:46:25 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: John C Klensin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Ray Pelletier , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:46:28 -0000 On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > > > --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 14:36 -0500 Ray Pelletier > wrote: > >> All >> >> In 2007, and perhaps earlier, the IEEE inquired as to the >> desirability of holding back-to-back meetings with the IETF. >> Our practice had been to avoid a clash with IEEE with a least >> a week separating the meetings. >> >> In December 2008 the idea was presented to the IAOC that the >> IETF and IEEE hold back-to-back meetings in at the Caribe >> Royale in Orlando, Florida in March 2013, a venue that IEEE >> was very familiar with as it had held successful meetings >> there in the past. >> >> The purpose was save travel, time and costs for those who >> attend both, as well as the potential to save the IEEE and >> IETF costs with the hotel and network provider through >> increased bargaining power. >> >> We are saving money on the network service contract for >> Orlando. The site visit, shipping and engineer transportation >> costs will be shared with IEEE 802, as well as one less day of >> engineering time and lodging expenses. >> >> The IAOC approved planning for the meeting on 18 December >> 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC approved the venue. As this >> was a successful venue for the IEEE no site visit was >> conducted prior to contracting. A site visit was conducted in >> January in preparation for the meeting. >> >> To place this decision in context on a timeline, the >> Maastricht contract was executed in April 2009. It's fair to >> say site selection criteria and evaluations have evolved >> significantly since then. > > Ray, > > As indicated in my earlier note, I've been trying to stay out of > this, mostly because I'm just tired of the extensive whining > that seems to accompany every meeting and every venue, even when > I agree with parts of what is being said. > > However, given your note quoted above,... > > (1) IETF 72 was in (well, somewhere near) Dublin in July 2008. > My understanding coming out of that meeting was that there was > rather clear community consensus to avoid suburban or > suburban-like locations that created severe limits on nearby > (within convenient walking or high-frequency and quick public > transport distance) hotel and meal choices. I believe that the > community was told that part of the rationale for the (very > slightly) similar problems with Maastrict was that there was > insufficient time after the Dublin meeting to apply that lesson > to a meeting only two years later (IETF 78, July 2010). To some > extent, if the Maastricht contract was not executed until April > 2009 -- circa nine months post-Dublin-- there should have been > ample time for the Dublin message to be absorbed already > (although I have a vague memory of some extenuating > circumstances). More important, the Dublin message should have > been available and even in recent memory by the December 2008 > and May 2009 dates you give for the Orlando decisions. [MB] I had the exact same thought myself. It really makes me think that the concerns raised in Dublin weren't considered critical enough to be incorporated into future decisions. That was the meeting that triggered my document: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barnes-healthy-food-05 Given that IETF prides themselves on being an open and inclusive international organization, I think it's extremely important that considerations for disabilities (visible and hidden) and dietary restrictions for religious and personal reasons are a factor in selecting meeting venues. Certainly, US law requires wheelchair accessibility to most buildings and most hotels have such accommodations, few seem to be at all concerned about the hidden disabilities such as celiac which are also covered by the American Disabilities Act. As I said in a previous email, at least we know ahead of time the situation and I will have access to food since I have a car, but I still firmly believe that the folks that are responsible for selecting the venues should ensure that those of us with dietary restrictions have access to appropriate food. For example, I would expect that in the case of the stations that are setup for the lunch crowds, that vegetarian, vegan and gluten free food, for example, would be available and appropriately labeled. While the secretariat has done an excellent job of ensuring that such foods are available for the breakfasts and breaks, the hotels generally do a very poor job of ensuring that there is no cross contamination (e.g., bagels and pastries placed above fruit trays, etc.) Again, my document gets into all these issues and I believe it's time to publish it and require that the folks that do meeting planning and venue selection ensure that they communicate the requirements to the venue and ensure they can be met. I believe the secretariat were the ones to communicate such requirements for the meeting in Beijing and that hotel went above and beyond in accommodating dietary restrictions. It just takes planning and communication - Ericsson's hosting of the RTCWEB interim in Stockholm in June was fantastic in terms of ensuring that gluten-free food was available (even cookies;) as was that provided by Acme Packet for the most recent RTCWEB interim although there were no cookies and the mini candy bars went missing one afternoon; So, it's already been proven that it's quite possible to do this properly. [/MB] > > (2) While it was long before your time and that of the IAOC as > an institution, the IETF has been in Orlando before, at IETF 43 > in December 1998. My (admittedly vague) recollection was that > the location was not judged a particular success for some of the > same reasons that have been discussed in the recent days, > including an isolated and sterile location that one could > basically not escape without a car, family-tourist overload, > etc.. And that meeting was held, IIR, in a "Downtown Disney" > location with a much higher density of hotels and eating places > to which one could actually walk and at a time which was not > part of the spring vacation high season. > > (3) With the understanding that I have poor memory about these > sorts of things, I can't remember a time when the IETF met at a > particular location where the main meeting hotel didn't have > enough space for the attendees (or ran out) and there was no > plausible alternate hotel list supplied as part of the meeting > package. I'd have some difficulty with a venue in which there > was only one plausible hotel as long as that hotel actually had > sufficient rooms for all of us (Dublin, if I recall, came close > to that situation) but one hotel that runs out of rooms without > a backup negotiated as part of the overall contractual > arrangements seems to me to be much worse. I note that, as of > today, there are still no alternate hotel locations on the > "meeting venue" web page, just an announcement that says > "...fully booked, if openings become available, we will let you > know". Comments and suggestions from assorted people on the > mailing list are just not a substitute for IASA-specified and at > least partially-contracted alternatives, especially given the > many problems we have had in the past with, e.g., network > connections in secondary hotels and how difficult it is for a > would-be guest to pin down hotels about what Internet facilities > and capacity they actually have. > > (4) I believe that, in the seemingly never-ending complaining > about meeting venues, one of the few clear and consistent > messages from the community to the IAOC has been that saving > institutional costs at the expense of significantly increasing > overall costs to IETF participants was not a good (or even > acceptable) tradeoff. Others have already commented about high > airfare rates around the time of the meeting, the likely cost > increments for food, etc., when the hotel has a near-monopoly, > and even the room rates (even though they may represent a > significant discount from rack rates for that particular week, > they don't compare favorably with other weeks or other > locations). The situation here is obviously complicated by the > cost savings for those who have to attend both meetings but, > noting that almost everyone in that situation is probably > traveling on a corporate expense account while many of those who > participate in the IETF are not, I'd guess that the overall cost > savings to participants would be justified if, say, 25% of IETF > attendees or more were attending both meetings. That is > certainly possible, but I have my doubts. > > (5) While I understand that it would have led to more noise from > which information would have been hard to extract, the IAOC > could have said something to the community like "We are > contemplating meeting back to back with an IEEE standards > activity. It will bring some advantages in institutional cost > savings, will result in individual (or organizational) cost > savings for those who have to attend both meetings, and may > permit some cross-pollination that would not occur otherwise. > However, aligning our calendar and location to theirs will > sacrifice some of our flexibility about dates, sites, and other > criteria that we usually apply. Is the community ok with > that?" Clearly, asking that question today would be pointless, > but, given the schedule you outline, it could sensibly have been > asked, and asked clearly, in late 2008 or early 2009 (with the > Dublin experience fresh in everyone's mind, fwiw). As far as I > know, it wasn't. Your message reinforces that: "the idea was > presented to the IAOC", "The IAOC approved planning for the > meeting on 18 December 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC > approved...". And the IAOC then apparently made the decision > that what works for the IEEE --a different group with different > membership and requirements-- was sufficiently obviously good > for the IETF that not even a pre-contract site visit (which > would have presumably turned up the facilities issue given all > of our recent experiences including Dublin) was thought > necessary. > > Of course, the community bears some of the blame for that as > well. Many of the people who have been complaining about > Orlando in the last couple of weeks, especially those who base > their remarks on previous experiences, could have started > complaining in 2009 or whenever the location/contract was > announced. On the other hand, by then, with the contract > signed, it would have been as much too late as it is today. > > > At the time the current administrative model was developed, I > believe that the community assumed that the IAOC was supposed to > work in a way that both reflected community needs and consensus > --not just IETF staff and institutional needs and finances-- and > that the community would be consulted when strategic decisions > were under consideration. I believe that a decision to > sacrifice some normal IETF criteria --criteria that were old > already by the end of 2008-- in order to get the benefits of, > e.g., a meeting sequentially co-located with an IEEE standards > group is, in that sense, strategic. YMMD, of course, > > The sad part of this from my perspective isn't the Orlando > situation. It is the apparent lesson that the IASA just cannot > or will not learn from experience and that, since there is no > possible way to recall the core IAOC membership from 2008-2009, > the community has no effective way, even in principle, to > deliver a strong message about these issues when the weaker > messages appear to be ineffective or overruled by other > considerations. > > sadly, > john > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Wed Feb 20 17:02:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8447321E8083 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:02:08 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eT7ZTtqJ5IdD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA43A21E8055 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:02:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361408527; x=1392944527; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject: cc; bh=NVCgx+ioxDeTYUFraSxvhEncnY7OPb3PhB7eQI0sQO8=; b=R27QDgIXV1J50GHgPVhxsSscRZIolOpeTKXJuPuvyHAGptICGkASpoBp hdER+7XIFz8wflNZnQaHZ2KDynLTLIfJ0DIK/H9d20hoBAxGanYUEkOe1 FzZ35ip4E/VEw0roTlfoFnVebsPOphKQh3IPaQJHboGehnlTTl0Yl5B68 g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,705,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24520792" Received: from ironmsg04-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.19]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 17:02:06 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,705,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="402541054" Received: from myvpn-r-02789.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [10.184.127.96]) ([10.64.7.228]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 20 Feb 2013 17:02:04 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:00:27 -0800 To: John C Klensin , Ray Pelletier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:02:08 -0000 At 4:59 PM -0500 2/20/13, John C Klensin wrote: > Many of the people who have been complaining about > Orlando in the last couple of weeks, especially those who base > their remarks on previous experiences, could have started > complaining in 2009 or whenever the location/contract was > announced. On the other hand, by then, with the contract > signed, it would have been as much too late as it is today. I knew we were going back to Orlando way back in 2009 when it was announced, but wasn't aware of the venue until late last year. Was the venue announced earlier? If so, I missed it, or I might have said something at the time. While I don't consider myself among the current round of complainers/whiners (this round I have just added some information in as neutral a way as I can), I was surprised at the venue choice, and did send some private email to a few people to at least make sure they knew that the venue presented some challenges, especially regarding food options, and was assured that this was known and being addressed (with shuttles for dinner and grab-and-go for lunch). -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Studied carefully, a modern payphone reveals itself as a little fortress, carefully designed and redesigned over generations, to resist coin, slugs, zaps of electricity, chunks of coin-shaped ice, prybars, magnets, lockpicks, blasting caps. Public pay- phones must survive in a world of unfriendly, greedy people, and a modern payphone is as exquisitely evolved as a cactus. --Bruce Sterling From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Wed Feb 20 17:16:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E670721F869A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QyxMlIBBJ2qC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f174.google.com (mail-vc0-f174.google.com [209.85.220.174]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EE5D21F8686 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id n11so5517557vch.33 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wVJfdRjRF8j4je+WGZTfwCJaOz0sYoETDgBJhWJIYv8=; b=H+J1LIWxaQ3empG1ll6WRFD/75U9/0vqfIzogc8Ds0KTeupXy3rGrwmyE+rS9hZC+t CwX1BbRw5cWFrlHhVIq0stwIIGsEhKxKEWEUXEWACFEYw0+PqkowRUHWDSE6Nqq3P7uG m8Jmlm67wbX8ye2lToAqXbvf9WsrlSpz/MunpslWTysv5c8q9MDSTWlsVqgMlNetrDQe re91TuwBwEKTATlAcnwAegHnqpl75VILk5x+wUlC7LbO7JFJM9Q/BpuYssNi+z8ChbTL TbO0MUQWqH+R+3BoFeCZ4qbfaWKcJBe7XYq0iuj9KeqyeCK9KROJYN5BNfjSuFBvAYBl tJkA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.18.148 with SMTP id w20mr25010245vdd.8.1361409370522; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:16:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 19:16:10 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Randall Gellens Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Ray Pelletier , John C Klensin , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:16:12 -0000 On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Randall Gellens wrote: > At 4:59 PM -0500 2/20/13, John C Klensin wrote: > >> Many of the people who have been complaining about >> Orlando in the last couple of weeks, especially those who base >> their remarks on previous experiences, could have started >> complaining in 2009 or whenever the location/contract was >> announced. On the other hand, by then, with the contract >> signed, it would have been as much too late as it is today. > > > I knew we were going back to Orlando way back in 2009 when it was announced, > but wasn't aware of the venue until late last year. Was the venue announced > earlier? If so, I missed it, or I might have said something at the time. > While I don't consider myself among the current round of complainers/whiners > (this round I have just added some information in as neutral a way as I > can), I was surprised at the venue choice, and did send some private email > to a few people to at least make sure they knew that the venue presented > some challenges, especially regarding food options, and was assured that > this was known and being addressed (with shuttles for dinner and grab-and-go > for lunch). [MB] I think most of us rather than being "whiners/complainers" are raising valid issues. I can't imagine how strong the reaction would be if the only thing available to eat for lunch was plain salads. And, we already know the reaction about not having sufficient cookies or not having them at the expected time - that I would consider whining and complaining. [/MB] [/MB] > > -- > Randall Gellens > Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only > -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- > Studied carefully, a modern payphone reveals itself as a little > fortress, carefully designed and redesigned over generations, to resist > coin, slugs, zaps of electricity, chunks of coin-shaped ice, prybars, > magnets, lockpicks, blasting caps. Public pay- phones must survive in a > world of unfriendly, greedy people, and a modern payphone is as > exquisitely evolved as a cactus. > --Bruce Sterling > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From bob.hinden@gmail.com Wed Feb 20 22:18:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAE8E21F8DD2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.655, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SARE_RECV_BEZEQINT_B=0.763, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V7o9CTIgJo3O for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-x22f.google.com (mail-we0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F80621F8DD0 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id x8so7330283wey.6 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=nJQl4hbXgi6PiqSZkpu8OZlGU2AsuPkRI9uivuJQS3k=; b=Jmoxu75c/PzRzf4J1RvQ3H07mOhz6E5LbASrC/AznJcI4iEIwPHxFt2MtNM8TO9fbs GvqU2Kyp/fG0hpq/iL5IAWnV6CXc3j2Vesg/sQGN1f7BXwSVE5xv7FwzaubdxuWJgWQf F6BQ0nhX03CtfFSx0/D8Pvwwj1Njad7KvkIGDEnOzWScrBrm4o4GTqQKUlVkHWDahN3R Rl9HDk0zBqTEL3ITfPL7JQ6amBs+hHQ8NrKkFEgsrudqFfAxcFx2CNpW5HPvAxz38Cow 6R7zzfAhhsMYEz1ibRTGsq/UKLbYhQ3yQ1db2hilTKELxsYPO76kz8a3IiRpx0rj1l6n xtNQ== X-Received: by 10.180.87.98 with SMTP id w2mr37323838wiz.30.1361427535591; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.5.68] (bzq-218-39-90.cablep.bezeqint.net. [81.218.39.90]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id du2sm34965737wib.0.2013.02.20.22.18.51 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:18:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:18:49 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: Ray Pelletier , Bob Hinden , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:18:57 -0000 John, To cut to the chase, if the IAOC was making the decision today, we would = not be going to this venue in Orlando. It doesn't meet our current = criteria. We have learned a lot since Maastricht and have made = significant changes to the way that venues are selected. For example, = look at the venues for the next two IETF meetings later this year. =20 If the IAOC had a time machine, we could change things in the past, but = that doesn't seem like a practical option. =20 Bob p.s. Come to the IAOC Overview sunday afternoon. It will include a = decryption of how venues are selected. On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:59 PM, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 >=20 > --On Wednesday, February 20, 2013 14:36 -0500 Ray Pelletier > wrote: >=20 >> All >>=20 >> In 2007, and perhaps earlier, the IEEE inquired as to the >> desirability of holding back-to-back meetings with the IETF. >> Our practice had been to avoid a clash with IEEE with a least >> a week separating the meetings. >>=20 >> In December 2008 the idea was presented to the IAOC that the >> IETF and IEEE hold back-to-back meetings in at the Caribe >> Royale in Orlando, Florida in March 2013, a venue that IEEE >> was very familiar with as it had held successful meetings >> there in the past. >>=20 >> The purpose was save travel, time and costs for those who >> attend both, as well as the potential to save the IEEE and >> IETF costs with the hotel and network provider through >> increased bargaining power. =20 >>=20 >> We are saving money on the network service contract for >> Orlando. The site visit, shipping and engineer transportation >> costs will be shared with IEEE 802, as well as one less day of >> engineering time and lodging expenses. =20 >>=20 >> The IAOC approved planning for the meeting on 18 December >> 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC approved the venue. As this >> was a successful venue for the IEEE no site visit was >> conducted prior to contracting. A site visit was conducted in >> January in preparation for the meeting. >>=20 >> To place this decision in context on a timeline, the >> Maastricht contract was executed in April 2009. It's fair to >> say site selection criteria and evaluations have evolved >> significantly since then. >=20 > Ray, >=20 > As indicated in my earlier note, I've been trying to stay out of > this, mostly because I'm just tired of the extensive whining > that seems to accompany every meeting and every venue, even when > I agree with parts of what is being said. >=20 > However, given your note quoted above,... >=20 > (1) IETF 72 was in (well, somewhere near) Dublin in July 2008. > My understanding coming out of that meeting was that there was > rather clear community consensus to avoid suburban or > suburban-like locations that created severe limits on nearby > (within convenient walking or high-frequency and quick public > transport distance) hotel and meal choices. I believe that the > community was told that part of the rationale for the (very > slightly) similar problems with Maastrict was that there was > insufficient time after the Dublin meeting to apply that lesson > to a meeting only two years later (IETF 78, July 2010). To some > extent, if the Maastricht contract was not executed until April > 2009 -- circa nine months post-Dublin-- there should have been > ample time for the Dublin message to be absorbed already > (although I have a vague memory of some extenuating > circumstances). More important, the Dublin message should have > been available and even in recent memory by the December 2008 > and May 2009 dates you give for the Orlando decisions. >=20 > (2) While it was long before your time and that of the IAOC as > an institution, the IETF has been in Orlando before, at IETF 43 > in December 1998. My (admittedly vague) recollection was that > the location was not judged a particular success for some of the > same reasons that have been discussed in the recent days, > including an isolated and sterile location that one could > basically not escape without a car, family-tourist overload, > etc.. And that meeting was held, IIR, in a "Downtown Disney" > location with a much higher density of hotels and eating places > to which one could actually walk and at a time which was not > part of the spring vacation high season. >=20 > (3) With the understanding that I have poor memory about these > sorts of things, I can't remember a time when the IETF met at a > particular location where the main meeting hotel didn't have > enough space for the attendees (or ran out) and there was no > plausible alternate hotel list supplied as part of the meeting > package. I'd have some difficulty with a venue in which there > was only one plausible hotel as long as that hotel actually had > sufficient rooms for all of us (Dublin, if I recall, came close > to that situation) but one hotel that runs out of rooms without > a backup negotiated as part of the overall contractual > arrangements seems to me to be much worse. I note that, as of > today, there are still no alternate hotel locations on the > "meeting venue" web page, just an announcement that says > "...fully booked, if openings become available, we will let you > know". Comments and suggestions from assorted people on the > mailing list are just not a substitute for IASA-specified and at > least partially-contracted alternatives, especially given the > many problems we have had in the past with, e.g., network > connections in secondary hotels and how difficult it is for a > would-be guest to pin down hotels about what Internet facilities > and capacity they actually have. >=20 > (4) I believe that, in the seemingly never-ending complaining > about meeting venues, one of the few clear and consistent > messages from the community to the IAOC has been that saving > institutional costs at the expense of significantly increasing > overall costs to IETF participants was not a good (or even > acceptable) tradeoff. Others have already commented about high > airfare rates around the time of the meeting, the likely cost > increments for food, etc., when the hotel has a near-monopoly, > and even the room rates (even though they may represent a > significant discount from rack rates for that particular week, > they don't compare favorably with other weeks or other > locations). The situation here is obviously complicated by the > cost savings for those who have to attend both meetings but, > noting that almost everyone in that situation is probably > traveling on a corporate expense account while many of those who > participate in the IETF are not, I'd guess that the overall cost > savings to participants would be justified if, say, 25% of IETF > attendees or more were attending both meetings. That is > certainly possible, but I have my doubts. =20 >=20 > (5) While I understand that it would have led to more noise from > which information would have been hard to extract, the IAOC > could have said something to the community like "We are > contemplating meeting back to back with an IEEE standards > activity. It will bring some advantages in institutional cost > savings, will result in individual (or organizational) cost > savings for those who have to attend both meetings, and may > permit some cross-pollination that would not occur otherwise. > However, aligning our calendar and location to theirs will > sacrifice some of our flexibility about dates, sites, and other > criteria that we usually apply. Is the community ok with > that?" Clearly, asking that question today would be pointless, > but, given the schedule you outline, it could sensibly have been > asked, and asked clearly, in late 2008 or early 2009 (with the > Dublin experience fresh in everyone's mind, fwiw). As far as I > know, it wasn't. Your message reinforces that: "the idea was > presented to the IAOC", "The IAOC approved planning for the > meeting on 18 December 2008, and on 7 May 2009, the IAOC > approved...". And the IAOC then apparently made the decision > that what works for the IEEE --a different group with different > membership and requirements-- was sufficiently obviously good > for the IETF that not even a pre-contract site visit (which > would have presumably turned up the facilities issue given all > of our recent experiences including Dublin) was thought > necessary. >=20 > Of course, the community bears some of the blame for that as > well. Many of the people who have been complaining about > Orlando in the last couple of weeks, especially those who base > their remarks on previous experiences, could have started > complaining in 2009 or whenever the location/contract was > announced. On the other hand, by then, with the contract > signed, it would have been as much too late as it is today. >=20 >=20 > At the time the current administrative model was developed, I > believe that the community assumed that the IAOC was supposed to > work in a way that both reflected community needs and consensus > --not just IETF staff and institutional needs and finances-- and > that the community would be consulted when strategic decisions > were under consideration. I believe that a decision to > sacrifice some normal IETF criteria --criteria that were old > already by the end of 2008-- in order to get the benefits of, > e.g., a meeting sequentially co-located with an IEEE standards > group is, in that sense, strategic. YMMD, of course, >=20 > The sad part of this from my perspective isn't the Orlando > situation. It is the apparent lesson that the IASA just cannot > or will not learn from experience and that, since there is no > possible way to recall the core IAOC membership from 2008-2009, > the community has no effective way, even in principle, to > deliver a strong message about these issues when the weaker > messages appear to be ineffective or overruled by other > considerations. >=20 > sadly, > john >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Wed Feb 20 23:07:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2A121F8C6B for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:07:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hsAgxGwM5trH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a73.g.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CE721F84C6 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a73.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a73.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBEA1F0083 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:07:31 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=0MISyKX3YezTrakp2o9jyxQ+LC7GR+PMravsRti4UcWQewem930UJaxxrd3F 0cjIaO3aNogK+OB+I4hmIjgd7832ZfvcaMJJFIgdShUMdqzPJqfrZd4svMU4AwKo bYPWxXidtbfDUX7iyuIjPTKvxZPXMvPg7xZV3SDbnJBB08g= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=6yYsWtmkdErVttSpBB/vFFrHabU=; b=UiLryw/fMVQGw K6kVYMl0CGHFtZJ7j0DbYOtOnB3eeSLnbSXzD8yzuB9jrXq/iUS+SJC6yF/jlfCK Ghef2UH9aXiwQQ/Q6LCA/wUOOoTXKN8hj6ra1gl4AdnOUc+ncXUTlhIsvexP4RZ1 U1ok1MJKgU09pljC8pblqn1c9XZXJw= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a73.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06E841F007C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:07:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5125C7B1.4090508@nomountain.net> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:07:29 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:07:32 -0000 On 2/20/13 9:18 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > p.s. Come to the IAOC Overview sunday afternoon. It will include a > decryption of how venues are selected. I think the thing that pops out at me about this particular venue is what Mary brought up earlier. It's one thing to have meetings in a place that some people may not like because of the climate or whatever, but this one is striking in that it's a truly terrible place for people who have limited mobility, dietary restrictions, etc. Being an open organization also means being an accessible one. Is that a factor in venue choice? Melinda From lee.howard@twcable.com Thu Feb 21 03:50:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54CC221F8DCA for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:50:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.400, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGYdDTbuuZtx for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED7321F8DC7 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:50:28 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.10 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,709,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="30950574" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.10]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 21 Feb 2013 06:49:58 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS17.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.96]) by PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.10]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:50:24 -0500 From: "Howard, Lee" To: Bob Hinden , John C Klensin Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:50:22 -0500 Thread-Topic: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: Ac4QKaH+7uWFyzqzSk25DIVQkrP8Uw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.0.121105 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Ray Pelletier , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:50:29 -0000 On 2/21/13 1:18 AM, "Bob Hinden" wrote: >John, > >To cut to the chase, if the IAOC was making the decision today, we would >not be going to this venue in Orlando. It doesn't meet our current >criteria. We have learned a lot since Maastricht and have made >significant changes to the way that venues are selected. For example, >look at the venues for the next two IETF meetings later this year. I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to escape the beaten path from time to time. Lee This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the= intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissem= ination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawf= ul. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender imm= ediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail an= d any printout. From randy@psg.com Thu Feb 21 04:12:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6D121F8DC3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:12:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2T+0y-1AI2Yj for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E35C21F8DD9 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8V0T-0005uS-9l; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:12:09 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:12:07 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: "Howard, Lee" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Ray Pelletier , John C Klensin , Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:12:20 -0000 > I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. > In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. > Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. > I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to > escape the beaten path from time to time. From john+ietf@jck.com Thu Feb 21 05:35:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706A521F8DA2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:35:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gCymWP3PYGce for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D89F21F8CE3 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8WJH-000HHR-4C; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:35:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:35:32 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Bob Hinden Message-ID: <66C2AE1F1E11906F4866F3F8@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: References: <0E9311F0BCCE0BE5262C98C4@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Ray Pelletier , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:35:47 -0000 --On Thursday, February 21, 2013 08:18 +0200 Bob Hinden wrote: > John, > > To cut to the chase, if the IAOC was making the decision > today, we would not be going to this venue in Orlando. It > doesn't meet our current criteria. We have learned a lot > since Maastricht and have made significant changes to the way > that venues are selected. For example, look at the venues for > the next two IETF meetings later this year. > > If the IAOC had a time machine, we could change things in the > past, but that doesn't seem like a practical option. Bob, I tried to make parts of that clear in my note. With meetings being scheduled and contracts signed many years in advance, there is an inevitable long lead time between seeing an example from which we should learn and being able to apply it to meeting selection. That lead time, inevitably, leads to a situation in which the IAOC can accurately say either "we have learned since them and it won't happen again" and/or "they did it, we wouldn't". As I also tried to say, the way in which these discussions occur can make it hard to determine the actual sense of the community. I didn't intend to dismiss all site-specific comments as whining. Many of them, IMO, are extremely reasonable and important. But we have also had more than a reasonable share of debates about cookies, discussions about whether trains or airplanes are more obnoxious in various countries, about where to find a real desert, and topics that sometimes feel similar to how much cooler the food would be if we met in Thule or how educational it would be for the IETF's understanding of the global Internet if we scheduled meetings at the Vostok Station Tourist Resort. Those discussions can be fun and sometimes illuminating, but they don't help much with the meeting location discussion's S/N ratio and I sympathize with the amount of IAOC effort required to follow those discussions and sort the signal out. At the same time, "long lag time, wouldn't do that now" can't be the answer to every issue. An issue like "the meeting hotel is fully booked and we don't have any plan other than to post a note that says 'we will tell you if there is a change'" is a 2013 problem, not a 2008-2009 decision even though one may lead to the other. I believe it is unacceptable to hold a meeting, offer no alternate hotels, and tell anyone who can't get into the conference hotel that they are on their own. I believe that would have been unacceptable when the Orlando decisions were made in 2008 and 2009 and indeed that it would have unacceptable in 2000 -- it wasn't necessary to wait for Maastricht for that information to be clear. I'm sufficiently sensitive to the noise problem and a view about how these things develop and can be remedied in the long term that I wouldn't have written my note at all had it not been for two things which I would encourage you and others to think about. One was the content of Ray's note which essentially said "we fell into this because we didn't have the Maastricht experience and information yet" (something your note hints at as well). But we did have the Dublin experience, which both earlier and, IMO, more similar to the Orlando site and situation than Maastricht (which I believe, like some others, wasn't really that bad once we got there). Yes, this Orlando site has some properties in common with Maastricht too and I'm not discounting them. But, given Dublin, it seems to me you and the present IAOC can't say "ok, it was too short of a time after Maastricht, we have learned now" but only either "the IAOC has to be hit over the head multiple times in the same place before learning sets in, only after Maastricht could we appreciate the lessons of Dublin" or "*they* did it back in 2009, *we" wouldn't do it today". Part of that too is that, as I read the symptoms, this isn't going to change until people start voting with their feet and doing so in numbers large enough to show up on the bottom line. The IAOC's major priority appears to be, and probably should be, keeping the budget in good shape. I believe that it is rational for the IAOC to look at attendance figures and say "bad choices of arrangements as far as attendees are concerned don't affect things much no matter how much people complain, so we should optimize costs to the IETF and convenience for the few people who _really_ count". I note in that regard that Ray's note is still stressing the cost savings to IETF operations and for those people who attend both meetings. While I'm certain tuning has occurred in the wake of Maastricht and will occur when the effects of this meeting can be considered in site selection and contracting (five years or so out now?), I believe we will see significant changes only when particularly-affected groups (including those that Mary identifies) start to say "sorry, intolerable that dietary and mobility issues aren't considered priorities, we are not going to be at the meeting in person". Yes, I'm considering whether I really need to be in Orlando or should both vote with my feet and free up a hotel room for someone whose presence is more important than mine. The other issue was also stimulated by Ray's note. I believe that the IASA is obligated to do as much as possible to fix or mitigate problems that the IASA (however historically and with whatever good intentions) has caused. I'd be a lot happier today if I saw some real scrambling going to -- to identify and maybe even make arrangements with alternate hotels, to arrange transport for those facilities and grocery stores, etc., and so on. Maybe the late registration penalty should be relaxed for those who are still trying to find hotel rooms and might depend on last-minute cancellations. Maybe there should be a partial registration fee rebate for anyone who can demonstrate that they made a good faith effort to get into the Caribe but had to rent a car to commute from somewhere else instead Whatever might help to offset the costs and aggravation. That would be costly, especially on short notice, but the costs can be presumably partially offset by the proclaimed savings from this site selection. It may also be impossible at this late date -- although that raises questions of why actions weren't taken when the venue was announced and some concerns expressed or when it became clear a few months ago (or during the January site visit) that there would probably be issues. But I think the community should be seeing signs of real effort to ameliorate the problems, not just a "hotel full, we will let you know if something changes" statement accompanied by assurance that this site wouldn't be chosen today. > p.s. Come to the IAOC Overview sunday afternoon. It will > include a decryption of how venues are selected. Assuming I come to Orlando, I expect to sit in and listen. Having done meeting sit selection and planning, I probably have a better-than-average understanding of how hard the problems are. But, as long as no one is accountable for these kind of problems -- and trying to fix (or at least offset) the worst parts of them -- because "it happened back then" is a good excuse (and, no, I don't know where to find you a time machine either), then I can't imagine what could be said that would give the community confidence that there will not be future bad optimizations or discounting of the critical needs of some community because you can get a good sponsor it you do. best, john From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Thu Feb 21 05:47:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB6121F8C48 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:47:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.872, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XcU7YmEZBpEK for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 345EE21F8AD8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:47:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.114]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57341680; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:17:37 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.77]) by PACDCEXHUB01.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::84e8:95f3:f13b:169e%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:47:52 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: "Howard, Lee" , Bob Hinden Thread-Topic: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOECmpbjkB/ixtCk6dXx100Cx7g5iEU8wA Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:47:51 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [24.40.56.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <39E87E4C74C6144FA45593BD35DD48F9@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Ray Pelletier , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:47:56 -0000 On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" wrote: >I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. >In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. >Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. >I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to >escape the beaten path from time to time. +1 to what Lee said. Maastrict was nice, but that may be in part since I stayed in the city center and not at the official hotel - and rented a bicycle to commute to the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was wonderful and I really enjoyed the opportunity to ride the Shinkansen from Tokyo. My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city center where many dining choices for lunch and dinner are a short walk or public transit or taxi ride away. This also provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel prices). While it is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do a multi-hop flight is a somewhat less important issue. Jason From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Thu Feb 21 05:57:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D9E21F898A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:57:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id InSxcUEGb-Ty for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 644B121F841C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (161.renater.fr [193.49.159.161]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8F94B4040D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:57:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <512627FA.6080708@viagenie.ca> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:58:18 +0100 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:57:36 -0000 Le 2013-02-21 14:47, Livingood, Jason a écrit : > On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" wrote: > >> I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. >> In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. >> Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. >> I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to >> escape the beaten path from time to time. > > +1 to what Lee said. > Maastrict was nice, but that may be in part since I stayed in the city > center and not at the official hotel - and rented a bicycle to commute to > the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was wonderful and I really enjoyed the > opportunity to ride the Shinkansen from Tokyo. > > My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city center where many > dining choices for lunch and dinner are a short walk or public transit or > taxi ride away. This also provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel > prices). While it is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do a > multi-hop flight is a somewhat less important issue. Have a +1, both of you. It's on me. Simon From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Thu Feb 21 05:58:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D140D21F8CA5 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:58:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WodoXKwGTPE4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9603921F8C55 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 05:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.102.29.112] (bas13-quebec14-3096570184.dsl.bell.ca [184.145.233.72]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0026A4268D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:57:33 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:57:32 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <98A1F361-AED7-407D-94C1-22837464BC1A@viagenie.ca> References: To: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:58:06 -0000 Le 2013-02-21 =E0 06:50, "Howard, Lee" a =E9crit = : >=20 > I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. > In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. > Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. > I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like = to > escape the beaten path from time to time. +1 Marc. >=20 > Lee >=20 From john+ietf@jck.com Thu Feb 21 06:27:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E9F21F8AAD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:27:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oItKZOxbwGEZ for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4784B21F865D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8X7D-000HL9-I7; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:27:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:27:09 -0500 From: John C Klesnin To: "Livingood, Jason" , "Howard, Lee" Message-ID: <7AEBF5D0E2A64E394847B947@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> References: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] Favorite cities (was: Re: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:27:25 -0000 --On Thursday, February 21, 2013 13:47 +0000 "Livingood, Jason" wrote: > On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" > wrote: > >> I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions >> on it. In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF >> meeting city. Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. >> I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. >> I do like to escape the beaten path from time to time. > > +1 to what Lee said. > Maastrict was nice, but that may be in part since I stayed in > the city center and not at the official hotel - and rented a > bicycle to commute to the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was > wonderful and I really enjoyed the opportunity to ride the > Shinkansen from Tokyo. Jason, Howard, I tried really hard to prevent my note from turning into a trigger for an "I like X more than Y" or "why can't we go to more interesting places" discussion (with the obvious counter of "I like boring cities, we get more work done there"). I obviously failed, for which I'm sorry. I would encourage you to think about two things --purely as a rhetorical exercise as far as I'm concerned-- to help clarify what I _am_ concerned about. (1) If you were to abandon the Caribe reservations that I presume you have, find a nice hotel in downtown Orlando (yes, there is a downtown Orlando, I've been there, and it is not "Downtown Disney") and commute to the meeting by walking, bicycle, and/or public transport, would you consider that a satisfactory arrangement? (2) Suppose your company went through one of the budget-watching spasms that many companies in the IETF community seem to go through periodically and you were told that, to attend this (or some other IETF) meeting, you would need to take vacation time (or leave without pay) from the time you left your normal desk until you returned and that you had to absorb all expenses of the meeting (registration fee, transport, hotel, meals, etc.) personally. I note that I've been involved with organizations who believed that my salary covered evening and weekend availability if there were a perceived emergency s.t. a Saturday that was unavailable because I was off somewhere was counted against vacation days. Would that "entirely on your nickel" scenario change, in any way, either your attitudes (or that of others) toward this meeting or your likelihood of attending it? If your answer is "yes", then do you believe that having the IETF trend in a direction in which only people from companies who are able to be generous about travel and support of who can find specific (and generous) support for IETF activities would be A Good Thing? With regard to that second rhetorical question, I suspect that there are at least as many people in situations like that (a category that pretty much includes independent consultants and others who are paid by the hour or day rather than on salary and who hence are not paid when they are not working on customer-specific projects) as there are who are attending both the IETF and IEEE meetings. Of course, I have no way to know that, but... > My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city > center where many dining choices for lunch and dinner are a > short walk or public transit or taxi ride away. This also > provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel prices). While it > is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do a multi-hop > flight is a somewhat less important issue. Ok. At the risk of contributing to this noise, Orlando generally and this venue in particular don't meet either of the "city center" or "airline hub" criteria. Atlanta does as does (or did) Minneapolis. I'm a lot more anxious to go back to one of them than the other. So possibly are you, although our choices might not be the same. But, IMO, what these discussions do to us is to so overconstrain the system that the IAOC is left without meaningful instructions and so makes tradeoffs that make no one happy. Can't really blame them, at least until we get down to "not enough accessible hotel space for those who want to attend" (if city X requires a car for more than the primary hotel and some participants cannot or will not drive there, other spaces are inaccessible) or "it is just too hard to consider health issues that affect a minority of the population". Personally, I think that the "people can attend" and "no significant sacrifices to health" criteria have to be the bottom line, not to be relaxed no matter what other considerations apply... and that those considerations we known and relevant, at least in general, long before Maastricht, but we have pushed the limits of one or both before and are pushing at least the first for this meeting. YMMD. john From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Thu Feb 21 06:49:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF54A21F8AC3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:49:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.810, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nMt7IBKTzAgh for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A8E21F8793 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.115]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57355589; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:19:01 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.77]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::492e:3fa1:c2ad:e04e%13]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:49:15 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: John C Klesnin , "Howard, Lee" Thread-Topic: Favorite cities (was: Re: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOED+OugySGmKN7EiQgTCvaha+qpiEZMgA Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:49:14 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD417161662987@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: <7AEBF5D0E2A64E394847B947@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [24.40.56.165] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <04834D51038F3247B68F0E9E69284DC8@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Favorite cities (was: Re: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 14:49:22 -0000 On 2/21/13 9:27 AM, "John C Klesnin" wrote: >Jason, Howard, >(1) If you were to abandon the Caribe reservations that I >presume you have, find a nice hotel in downtown Orlando (yes, >there is a downtown Orlando, I've been there, and it is not >"Downtown Disney") and commute to the meeting by walking, >bicycle, and/or public transport, would you consider that a >satisfactory arrangement? I'm at the Sheraton Vistana some undetermined distance away from the Caribe, mainly because my kids want me to accumulate Starwood points this year so they can stay in a W Hotel someplace. I'll have a rental car but only because I'm ~2 hours north or Orlando in the days leading up to the meeting. In any case, I think Bob Hinden addressed this well by saying by our current selection criteria Orlando may not make the cut these days. So that was good enough for me - what's done is done and I'll make the best of it.=20 And as a co-host of the meeting we're doing what we can as well (and the social should be fun). >(2) Suppose your company went through one of the budget-watching >spasms that many companies in the IETF community seem to go >through periodically > Would that "entirely on your nickel" >scenario change, in any way, either your attitudes (or that of >others) toward this meeting or your likelihood of attending it? I'm sure it would change my perspective on many things. But since it's clear that the meeting locale would not meet current criteria (but did when selected) I guess I see the trend moving in a direction that makes self-funding easier and not harder. And if you have an interesting dual-fee structure that varies registration costs by sponsorship then I look forward to hearing your ideas laid out more fully. >> My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city >> center where many dining choices for lunch and dinner are a >> short walk or public transit or taxi ride away. This also >> provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel prices). While it >> is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do a multi-hop >> flight is a somewhat less important issue. > >Ok. At the risk of contributing to this noise, Orlando >generally and this venue in particular don't meet either of the >"city center" or "airline hub" criteria. I don't see anyone arguing that. In fact I see people agreeing with you but saying Orlando was selected when the IETF had different meeting criteria than we do today. Jason From lee.howard@twcable.com Thu Feb 21 07:02:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BA921F85C0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:02:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KOkO+IQDnL5S for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2757B21F880F for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:02:45 -0800 (PST) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.13 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,710,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="31085165" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB04.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.13]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 21 Feb 2013 10:02:04 -0500 Received: from PRVPEXVS17.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.96]) by PRVPEXHUB04.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.13]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:02:30 -0500 From: "Howard, Lee" To: John C Klesnin , "Livingood, Jason" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:02:28 -0500 Thread-Topic: Favorite cities (was: Re: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: Ac4QRHgjTGacu0MMRAuquzrOGKIaww== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7AEBF5D0E2A64E394847B947@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.0.121105 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Favorite cities (was: Re: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:02:47 -0000 On 2/21/13 9:27 AM, "John C Klesnin" wrote: > > >--On Thursday, February 21, 2013 13:47 +0000 "Livingood, Jason" > wrote: > >> On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" >> wrote: >> >>> I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions >>> on it. In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF >>> meeting city. Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. >>> I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. >>> I do like to escape the beaten path from time to time. >> >> +1 to what Lee said. >> Maastrict was nice, but that may be in part since I stayed in >> the city center and not at the official hotel - and rented a >> bicycle to commute to the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was >> wonderful and I really enjoyed the opportunity to ride the >> Shinkansen from Tokyo. > >Jason, Howard, > >I tried really hard to prevent my note from turning into a >trigger for an "I like X more than Y" or "why can't we go to >more interesting places" discussion (with the obvious counter of >"I like boring cities, we get more work done there"). I >obviously failed, for which I'm sorry. I really only chimed in to prevent Maastricht from being held as an unmitigated disaster, an example of the worst location ever. Some of us liked it. > >I would encourage you to think about two things --purely as a >rhetorical exercise as far as I'm concerned-- to help clarify >what I _am_ concerned about. > >(1) If you were to abandon the Caribe reservations that I >presume you have, find a nice hotel in downtown Orlando (yes, >there is a downtown Orlando, I've been there, and it is not >"Downtown Disney") and commute to the meeting by walking, >bicycle, and/or public transport, would you consider that a >satisfactory arrangement? I am not staying at the Caribe. I would prefer to be able to walk to the venue, absolutely. > >(2) Suppose your company went through one of the budget-watching >spasms that many companies in the IETF community seem to go >through periodically and you were told that, to attend this (or >some other IETF) meeting, you would need to take vacation time >(or leave without pay) from the time you left your normal desk >until you returned and that you had to absorb all expenses of >the meeting (registration fee, transport, hotel, meals, etc.) >personally. I have, in fact, paid my own way to IETF. Not a cheap one, either. Fortunately, I did not have to take vacation time to do it: I was clear that if that was the expectation, I would not be returning to my employer after the meeting. In my country, two weeks' annual vacation is customary, so it would be impossible to attend three IETF meetings under those conditions. > > But, IMO, what these discussions >do to us is to so overconstrain the system that the IAOC is left >without meaningful instructions and so makes tradeoffs that make >no one happy. It is not possible to make everyone happy. I believe the guidance to the IAOC is to spread the unhappiness as thinly as possible, and to rotate it among different people. I can't imagine why anyone would be willing to serve on the IAOC given the success criteria. I applaud their patience. > Can't really blame them, at least until we get >down to "not enough accessible hotel space for those who want to >attend" (if city X requires a car for more than the primary >hotel and some participants cannot or will not drive there, >other spaces are inaccessible) or "it is just too hard to >consider health issues that affect a minority of the >population". Personally, I think that the "people can attend" >and "no significant sacrifices to health" criteria have to be >the bottom line, not to be relaxed no matter what other >considerations apply... and that those considerations we known >and relevant, at least in general, long before Maastricht, but >we have pushed the limits of one or both before and are pushing >at least the first for this meeting. YMMD. Health and safety first. Maximize participation second. (If we've missed the first, let's not jeopardize an extra hundred people). After that, we agree that priorities vary for each participant. Lee This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the= intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissem= ination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawf= ul. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender imm= ediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail an= d any printout. From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 21 07:09:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5934A21F8E16 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fV7R0Ea+Xp8A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0585921F8DDC for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id p1so5790329vcq.16 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ir4Td5lq9DVdssTHT8Vfi9UXrQ913BelX9QZN6LVYnA=; b=XxqsfmyuhPeLiSznUUSdMBsUXscMMviE3TgI4wL8oBKFxFM0RzsRo3A57wEfgI45/+ fKub1rG3+SPtU9S5iDcHU/EYsPucYI4VIudYlU168IgknaqrlSX8sAqhBTbmn62Jhl88 u13SpgS3bsgAvm5Y/6z+QkWa6zO2sjiQFv/04hAhktRrtaykEoBQhhdTrhf7veWAOxBd KCkanAUKmqLDE/uhh0RYzScHudFmovMRjiLo+unUGJO8YNER8uwy/LQJsbsbt4Zd+psS V7DsdWBsTJGIPkrnFKeQsKbf5to4mwIs9g+Rbjv4RQq7jE8Wv5t2PYTHf8Y2ODhVZHrM Pdow== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.231.196 with SMTP id jr4mr31272481vcb.16.1361459343367; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:09:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> References: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:09:03 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "Livingood, Jason" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cdbfad899e7404d63d7486 Cc: "Howard, Lee" , Ray Pelletier , Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:09:05 -0000 --14dae9cdbfad899e7404d63d7486 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Livingood, Jason < Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com> wrote: > On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" wrote: > >>I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opinions on it. >>In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF meeting city. >>Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel. >>I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to >>escape the beaten path from time to time. > > +1 to what Lee said. > Maastrict was nice, but that may be in part since I stayed in the city > center and not at the official hotel - and rented a bicycle to commute to > the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was wonderful and I really enjoyed the > opportunity to ride the Shinkansen from Tokyo. [MB] I didn't really want to bring this up again, but I will as I know I am not the only one that experienced personal safety issues and there would have been no way for anyone with mobility issues could get to Maastricht without hiring a private car for example. And, it's quite clear a large portion of the (white) male population of the IETF just doesn't get it. As a city, Maastricht was absolutely charming and had really nice food choices. I do not believe anyone has debated that aspect of Maastricht. The issues were, as I noted during and after the Maastricht meeting on the meeting/IETF discussion lists, around such basic things as personal safety and the lack of convenient and quality transportation. The suggestion that the logistics around Hiroshima were similar to those of Maastricht is quite off track. As a concrete example, I encountered a guy on the train that was overly interested in me and where I might be staying in Maastricht. I travel all the time by myself to many major cities all over the world. I don't have that issue in these cases because there are a lot of other people around most anytime of day. I can also determine the level of personal safety by paying attention to the number of other females are out in the evening or in a specific part of town, for example. I arrived in Maastricht at a deserted train station with no taxi queue with the guy that made me very uncomfortable. There was another IETF attendee that arrived with me - an Asian male. He was equally concerned about the situation with no taxi having arrived in a city that he did not know. He had a map so I did try to point him at least in the right direction for walking to his hotel. The fact that the majority of male IETF participants don't deem my concern as an issue is not at all acceptable. This is just another example of the fact that IETF is a white male dominated organization that is not sensitive to the fact that women have real concerns that white males generally do not encounter. Would you want your wife, mother, girlfriend or daughter in this situation? Lest you think this is a silly concern, the fact that one of the new IESG appointees (about whom I provided comments to the this years Nomcom) made the comment that I was far more likely to be raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (and absolutely not true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I never got. If that comment had been made in a professional for profit work environment in the majority of 1st world countries, the individual would have been immediately fired or the company/organization would have had a huge lawsuit on their hands. Please note that I am not saying that all males in the IETF have the same belief system or attitudes - there are a number of supportive and compassionate males in IETF. [/MB] > > My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city center where many > dining choices for lunch and dinner are a short walk or public transit or > taxi ride away. This also provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel > prices). While it is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do a > multi-hop flight is a somewhat less important issue. [MB] Right and the very nice thing about this is that it eliminates all the concerns I have raised - it's beyond simple and I think the community should require the IAOC to apply this criteria. [/MB] > > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --14dae9cdbfad899e7404d63d7486 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com> wrote:
> On 2/21/13 6:50 AM, "Howard, Lee" <
lee.howard@twcable.com> wrote:<= br> >
>>I haven't seen the setting in Orlando, so I have no opi= nions on it.
>>In defense of Maastricht, it was my favorite IETF m= eeting city.
>>Hiroshima was second--also multi-hop travel.
>>I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality.= =A0I do like to
>>escape the beaten path from time to time.
&g= t;
> +1 to what Lee said.
> Maastrict was nice, but that may be= in part since I stayed in the city
> center and not at the official hotel - and rented a bicycle to commute= to
> the meeting venue. But Hiroshima was wonderful and I really enj= oyed the
> opportunity to ride the Shinkansen from Tokyo.
[MB] I d= idn't really want to bring this up again, but I will as I know I am not= the
only one that experienced personal safety issues and there would have been<= br>no way for anyone with mobility issues could get to Maastricht without h= iring a private
car for example. And, it's quite clear a large porti= on of the (white) male population of the IETF just doesn't
get it. =A0 As a city, Maastricht was absolutely charming and had really ni= ce food choices. =A0
I do not believe anyone has debated that aspect of = Maastricht. =A0

The issues were, as I noted during and after the Maa= stricht meeting on the meeting/IETF discussion lists,
around such basic things as personal safety and the lack of =A0convenient a= nd quality transportation. =A0
The suggestion that the logistics around= Hiroshima were similar to those of Maastricht is quite off track.=A0
A= s a concrete example, I encountered a guy on the train that was overly inte= rested in me and where I might be staying in
Maastricht. =A0 I travel all the time by myself to many major cities all ov= er the world. =A0I
don't have that issue in these cases because the= re are a lot of other people around most anytime
of day. =A0I can also d= etermine the level of personal safety by paying attention to the number
of other females are out in the evening or in a specific part of town, for = example. =A0I arrived in
Maastricht at a deserted train station with no= taxi queue with the guy that made me very uncomfortable.
There w= as another IETF attendee that arrived with me - an Asian male. =A0He was eq= ually concerned
about the situation with no taxi having arrived in a city that he did = not know. =A0He had a map so I did
try to point him at least in t= he right direction for walking to his hotel.=A0
The fact that the majori= ty of male IETF participants don't deem my concern as an issue is not a= t
all acceptable. =A0This is just another example of the fact that IETF is a = white male dominated
organization that is not sensitive to the fact tha= t women have real concerns
that white males generally do not encounter. = =A0Would you want your wife, mother, girlfriend or
daughter in this situation? =A0 =A0Lest you think this is a silly concern, =
the fact that one of the new IESG appointees (about whom I provided com= ments to the=A0
this years Nomcom) made the comment that I was fa= r more likely to be
raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (and ab= solutely not
true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I nev= er got. =A0If that comment had
been made in a professional for profit wo= rk environment in the majority of 1st world countries,
the individual would have been immediately fired=A0
or the company/organ= ization would have had a huge lawsuit on their
hands. =A0Please note th= at I am not saying that all males in the IETF have the same belief system o= r attitudes -
there are a number of supportive and compassionate males in IETF. =A0[/MB]<= br>>
> My criteria is similar to others -- preferably in a city ce= nter where many
> dining choices for lunch and dinner are a short wal= k or public transit or
> taxi ride away. This also provides a wide range of hotels (and hotel> prices). While it is nice to be in a major airport hub, having to do= a
> multi-hop flight is a somewhat less important issue.
[MB] Rig= ht and the very nice thing about this is that it eliminates all the concern= s
I have raised - it's beyond simple and I think the community should req= uire the IAOC
to apply this criteria. =A0[/MB]
>
> Jason>
> _______________________________________________
> 86att= endees mailing list
> 86attendees@ietf.org
&g= t; https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--14dae9cdbfad899e7404d63d7486-- From jason_livingood@cable.comcast.com Thu Feb 21 07:28:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB1B21F843C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:28:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.475 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.475 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.755, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BigCzuMh4PFg for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com [76.96.32.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48E021F8233 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([24.40.56.114]) by copdcavout01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id C7WM3M1.57366039; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:57:59 -0700 Received: from PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com ([169.254.8.77]) by PACDCEXHUB01.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::84e8:95f3:f13b:169e%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:28:13 -0500 From: "Livingood, Jason" To: Mary Barnes Thread-Topic: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOECmpbjkB/ixtCk6dXx100Cx7g5iEU8wAgABqd4D//7GRAA== Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:28:11 +0000 Message-ID: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616633B2@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [24.40.56.165] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616633B2PACDCEXMB06cabl_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Howard, Lee" , Ray Pelletier , Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 15:28:25 -0000 --_000_10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616633B2PACDCEXMB06cabl_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/21/13 10:09 AM, "Mary Barnes" > wrote: The fact that the majority of male IETF participants don't deem my concern = as an issue is not at all acceptable. This is just another example of the fact that IETF is a wh= ite male dominated organization that is not sensitive to the fact that women have real concern= s that white males generally do not encounter. Would you want your wife, mot= her, girlfriend or daughter in this situation? Surely not. But I cannot chose my parents, ethnicity, or gender at birth an= y more than you can, so it's a bit hurtful to label others for such traits = as they are born with (I know you are frustrated =96 I can understand that = for sure). And just because I happen to be male and white does not mean I = am not sympathetic of these issues, concerned about them, and hope that the= IAOC listens and takes health & safety concerns into account for future me= etings. I know most of the IAOC pretty well and know them to be good and de= cent people, so I am hopeful they will hear these concerns and consider the= m carefully. Lest you think this is a silly concern, the fact that one of the new IESG a= ppointees (about whom I provided comments to the this years Nomcom) made th= e comment that I was far more likely to be raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (and ab= solutely not true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I never got. I didn't know that and find it quite sad that someone would say something s= o insensitive and thoughtless. --_000_10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616633B2PACDCEXMB06cabl_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <1C87748DF1B6614BB475BDC1A9827F06@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2/21/13 10:09 AM, "Mary Barnes" <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
The fact that the majority of male IETF participants don't deem my con= cern as an issue is not at
all acceptable.  This is just another example of the fact that IETF is= a white male dominated 
organization that is not sensitive to the fact that women have real co= ncerns
that white males generally do not encounter.  Would you want your wife= , mother, girlfriend or
daughter in this situation?    

Surely not. But I cannot chose my parents, ethnicity, or gender at bir= th any more than you can, so it's a bit hurtful to label others for such tr= aits as they are born with (I know you are frustrated =96 I can understand = that for sure).  And just because I happen to be male and white does not mean I am not sympathetic of these = issues, concerned about them, and hope that the IAOC listens and takes= health & safety concerns into account for future meetings. I know most= of the IAOC pretty well and know them to be good and decent people, so I am hopeful they will hear these concerns a= nd consider them carefully. 

Lest you think this is a silly concern, the fact that one of the new I= ESG appointees (about whom I provided comments to the this years Nomco= m) made the comment that I was far more likely to be
raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (a= nd absolutely not
true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I never got.  

I didn't know that and find it quite sad that someone would say someth= ing so insensitive and thoughtless. 

--_000_10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616633B2PACDCEXMB06cabl_-- From richard.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 21 08:50:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40C3A21F8E64 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mFulQ11Cjs6U for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f47.google.com (mail-da0-f47.google.com [209.85.210.47]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103FB21F8E62 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f47.google.com with SMTP id s35so306087dak.34 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=s1BzigFhxnbZzZr5taElPBzLklLPixgjxzxZW8YvfBU=; b=AvYzlD5kbdIioisaaNbaF7BSPu81Pt4FlAGsg+MjkB+UqMshMjT7xybGLqqCh8tH/d X+aNAinaAqEDRZcIfqyJmiG8wJCqIBL4oQ9BiFgd6bp39aMOyDJLxUbjF4knOeBGkFxS LCSCu0/jYNBwLNwzSoFh/apYw3yq1e6T5luiKkIAl7iHd6JdVVsOzII/p9OttDXIKli2 CRBypJ9YeLauA4GUKjWcjZSC7LI6ePBGQMqxHu2lJ5OWEOrqzNjhQmSz0U+AZ4zsFVM5 tL9KJeXKIwyg+sMLn8/8cjTC8b01UJU4XI9x/7dtpZrzu3YjZTyUSSC7SuZm/KpYpq9j MWBA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.148.6 with SMTP id to6mr8935526pab.112.1361465414804; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.204.66 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 08:50:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <10229F86C86EB444898E629583FD4171616623CE@PACDCEXMB06.cable.comcast.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:50:14 -0500 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Mary Barnes Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6d844a6c646f04d63ede3a Cc: "Howard, Lee" , Ray Pelletier , "Livingood, Jason" , Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 16:50:16 -0000 --047d7b6d844a6c646f04d63ede3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Lest you think this is a silly concern, > the fact that one of the new IESG appointees (about whom I provided > comments to the > this years Nomcom) made the comment that I was far more likely to be > raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (and > absolutely not > true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I never got. > As one of the three people who might be the subject of this comment: I don't remember making such a statement, but if I did, it was clearly thoughtless and not representative of my thoughts on such issues. I apologize for anything I have said of that character. --Richard --047d7b6d844a6c646f04d63ede3a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=
Lest you think this is a silly con= cern,
the fact that one of the new IESG appointees (about whom I provided comment= s to the=A0
this years Nomcom) made the comment that I was far mo= re likely to be
raped in my own hometown than in Maastricht was beyond unacceptable (and ab= solutely not
true BTW. It was deserving of a public apology which I nev= er got. =A0

As one of the= three people who might be the subject of this comment: I don't remembe= r making such a statement, but if I did, it was clearly thoughtless and not= representative of my thoughts on such issues. =A0I apologize for anything = I have said of that character.

--Richard
--047d7b6d844a6c646f04d63ede3a-- From yaakov_s@rad.com Thu Feb 21 11:59:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D6521F8F6D for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:59:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.848 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.250, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UnxvfnFQceS6 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rad.co.il (mailrelay02-q.rad.co.il [94.188.133.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB04C21F8F66 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from Internal Mail-Server by MailRelay02 (envelope-from yaakov?s@rad.com) with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 21 Feb 2013 20:28:45 +0200 Received: from EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) by EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il ([192.114.24.28]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:59:28 +0200 From: Yaakov Stein To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: venues and personal safety Thread-Index: AQHOEG3znwVz/rupakW9+ouhnkxFpQ== Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:59:26 +0000 Message-ID: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-puzzleid: {DED2F3BA-84BA-4E22-869C-C5FDB54D444F} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: 8nc= AE5v CMk6 Cmdf DHla DPSq DXIv DYPH FBgy FX6z Fzin HqY9 I123 J2Te KDSZ KQ0P; 1; OAA2AGEAdAB0AGUAbgBkAGUAZQBzAEAAaQBlAHQAZgAuAG8AcgBnAA==; Sosha1_v1; 7; {DED2F3BA-84BA-4E22-869C-C5FDB54D444F}; eQBhAGEAawBvAHYAXwBzAEAAcgBhAGQALgBjAG8AbQA=; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:59:25 GMT; dgBlAG4AdQBlAHMAIABhAG4AZAAgAHAAZQByAHMAbwBuAGEAbAAgAHMAYQBmAGUAdAB5AA== x-originating-ip: [207.232.33.112] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Commtouch-Refid: str=0001.0A0C0204.51267CA1.0013,ss=1,fgs=0 Subject: [86attendees] venues and personal safety X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 19:59:35 -0000 I guess that different people had different experiences. >From my personal experience, Atlanta was the absolute worst venue from the = personal safety point of view. My hotel was about 15 minutes by foot from the conference,=20 but those 15 minutes took me down streets full of homeless people, and three times I saw the police round people up off the streets. In front of my hotel I witnessed an old women being arrested. Second worst was Vienna. Beautiful city, but three people I know were pickp= ocketed on the train. Third would have been the recent Paris meeting, were it not for the fact that I wasn't in the hotel where the staff stole laptops from the rooms. I found Maastricht to be absolutely lovely. My hotel was once again about a= 15 minute walk=20 from the conference venue, and on my walk I would see people on bicycles, f= amilies,=20 and just plain friendly people who would wish me good morning. I also spoke with people in the trains, and everyone was helpful and friend= ly. Y(J)S From ynir@checkpoint.com Thu Feb 21 12:20:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A39621F8EE6 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KUuYJh17iBRR for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.checkpoint.com (smtp.checkpoint.com [194.29.34.68]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E96921F886A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 12:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([194.29.34.150]) by smtp.checkpoint.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1LKKOxo018024; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:20:24 +0200 X-CheckPoint: {51267CF0-0-1B221DC2-2FFFF} Received: from IL-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.2.54]) by DAG-EX10.ad.checkpoint.com ([169.254.3.95]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:20:24 +0200 From: Yoav Nir To: Yaakov Stein Thread-Topic: [86attendees] venues and personal safety Thread-Index: AQHOEG3+7j/qknFxt0+KE1wvK2Nx/piEn1uA Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:20:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4A16ABF4-6A15-4CC4-AB18-F89E7507E5D0@checkpoint.com> References: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.31.20.47] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] venues and personal safety X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:20:30 -0000 On Feb 21, 2013, at 9:59 PM, Yaakov Stein wrote: > I guess that different people had different experiences. >=20 > From my personal experience, Atlanta was the absolute worst venue from th= e personal safety point of view. > My hotel was about 15 minutes by foot from the conference,=20 > but those 15 minutes took me down streets full of homeless people, > and three times I saw the police round people up off the streets. > In front of my hotel I witnessed an old women being arrested. A lot of us met some homeless people, but they seemed harmless. Yes, they t= ried to sell me some imaginary car. > Second worst was Vienna. Beautiful city, but three people I know were pic= kpocketed on the train. Pickpockets are all over Europe. They're rarely violent because they don't = want the police to be forced to take action. > Third would have been the recent Paris meeting, were it not for the fact > that I wasn't in the hotel where the staff stole laptops from the rooms. >=20 > I found Maastricht to be absolutely lovely. My hotel was once again about= a 15 minute walk=20 > from the conference venue, and on my walk I would see people on bicycles,= families,=20 > and just plain friendly people who would wish me good morning. > I also spoke with people in the trains, and everyone was helpful and frie= ndly. You (and I) rode in during the daytime. Mary's train, IIRC, came in late at= night, so that it was only her and Creepy Guy in the car and at the train = station. That can change things. Yoav From randy@qti.qualcomm.com Thu Feb 21 18:23:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BA821F87C6 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:23:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z+nogIxLJGTN for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27ACE21F85CE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:23:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361499823; x=1393035823; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:from:subject: cc:mime-version; bh=W+M2cM6z4VFSGgiqcq6Prkh7M7d1nBPT+T27MN3hqD0=; b=R2V18izl6G4ypXO0onYl6PV2K7Zy98z7SSrVeHXx7YtiDv8aJfJZ2O6S Yn7bXcUAqgTWGgG9NPSXTh06OqAwo5nF0cYJuoP9GZONYP6DTCDnEuSoJ 0RgoiqTpRUX22ne+rdtaLUxEep971lXDzLUJQ1kipVJDMfhDbyCnU/fYa 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,713,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24873552" Received: from ironmsg02-lv.qualcomm.com ([10.47.202.183]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 21 Feb 2013 18:23:42 -0800 Received: from nasanexhc07.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.190]) by ironmsg02-lv.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 21 Feb 2013 18:23:42 -0800 Received: from [10.184.127.96] (172.30.39.5) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.190) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:23:41 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:17:37 -0800 To: "Howard, Lee" , Bob Hinden , John C Klensin From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Originating-IP: [172.30.39.5] Cc: Ray Pelletier , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:23:44 -0000 At 6:50 AM -0500 2/21/13, Lee Howard wrote: > I'm sure I'm unique in enjoying locations with personality. I do like to > escape the beaten path from time to time. I doubt you're unique in enjoying interesting locations, but IMHO that's an entirely separate and distinct criterion from what makes for a good IETF meeting. There are many places around the world that I love to visit but do not think would be good for an IETF. Likewise, there are places that I think made for successful IETFs that I would never choose to go for vacation (e.g., Minneapolis in winter). -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- In examinations the foolish ask questions that the wise cannot answer. --Oscar Wilde From randy@psg.com Thu Feb 21 22:22:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E0921F8F47 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:22:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.003, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1srnS5o3oAH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE1A421F8F31 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8m1K-0009FM-FY; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:22:10 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:22:09 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Randall Gellens In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:22:21 -0000 > I doubt you're unique in enjoying interesting locations, but IMHO > that's an entirely separate and distinct criterion from what makes > for a good IETF meeting. raised by a FLW student, i think that environment has a significant effect on human interaction. hence, i have hosted small meetings in places such as timberline lodge, the bloedel reserve japanese teahouse, fort warden, ... large meetings are tougher. and the internal environment may be more important than the external. but relaxing civilized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what little sanity i have left. randy From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Thu Feb 21 23:56:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D7821F8F51 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:56:37 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dU-iJ3rPIFtL for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9040021F8F13 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:56:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361519796; x=1393055796; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject: cc; bh=s2OrvMXARArdZRjlooSm1UHDn8YkGMsmRok9cGN6pao=; b=BkVTBe4ZcoaXaSlOnAq52amMl6rgAjW8wCjMFLwdwt8QwKhTfZ4ZuLS/ qG4ZL8ga8r+3v0TOxNEfmIMtrTXOgEZ9eDzhVp6CkPR4xC0xUxAG/k3vT DM2l8FD7CV/tYkEET50jdYpoQbkGJaFsH2f6XuA8k/KdzpyJhDi7nqIH7 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,714,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24909346" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 21 Feb 2013 23:56:36 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,713,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="491158668" Received: from myvpn-l-dyp000796dys.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [10.184.127.96]) ([10.64.136.16]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 21 Feb 2013 23:56:33 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:21:43 -0800 To: Randy Bush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:56:37 -0000 At 3:22 PM +0900 2/22/13, Randy Bush wrote: > relaxing civilized dinners etc. in > maastricht and hiroshima, for example, went a long way toward helping > me to maintain what little sanity i have left. I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disney on you. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- How is the world ruled and how do wars start? Diplomats tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read. --Karl Kraus From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Fri Feb 22 00:24:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C6B21F87A5 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:24:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRHIu3SqlC9Z for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8BA21F8E97 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-b0-51272b2eac92 Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6D.B4.19728.E2B27215; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:24:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.82]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:24:14 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: Yaakov Stein , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: venues and personal safety Thread-Index: AQHOEG3znwVz/rupakW9+ouhnkxFpZiFiWGw Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:12 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B10458C@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> In-Reply-To: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6etnqgQcNtaYtT0/tZLD50/WB1 YPJYsuQnk8ektWkBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGde/32cuOM5TsfZ4M0sD41yuLkZODgkBE4nf TYuZIGwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcYpT4dGUhG0hCSGAxo8SsfWldjBwcbAIWEt3/tEHCIgIhEqvf X2ICCQsLqEt0vgyBCGtIXH90nhnCNpJoOX+RHcRmEVCVmNV8mxXE5hXwlvgwcSsrxPSjjBJ3 t5eC2JxA8UW7O8C2MgKd8/3UGrDTmAXEJW49mQ91poDEkj0Q8yUERCVePv7HCmErSlydvhyq Xkdiwe5PbBC2tsSyha+ZIfYKSpyc+YRlAqPoLCRjZyFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsY2XMTM3PSy402 MQKj4OCW36o7GO+cEznEKM3BoiTOG+56IUBIID2xJDU7NbUgtSi+qDQntfgQIxMHp1QD40wZ K76IRm6XVW/1H4tNSr+hmaRuaK7UlqqTU8Ys9O2wxFHGX9GL+/8tlvkneOmp5NJ3zpxnnpuV HmWuuvtl2TXd+SqNsyc8qpm2tc1assqti0nGwO9q/K5lqkX+U/oXTjTaeHYSe+tK179Pwude OTvX/c3nPTcfHHj+8Pu/AO+lDy775y1Z8FeJpTgj0VCLuag4EQCrJtOXUAIAAA== Subject: Re: [86attendees] venues and personal safety X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:21 -0000 Whatever city we meet in, I'm sure that people can find security issues. In= most cases, simply by using caution and common sense you can avoid those..= . Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Yaakov Stein Sent: 21. helmikuuta 2013 21:59 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] venues and personal safety I guess that different people had different experiences. >From my personal experience, Atlanta was the absolute worst venue from the = personal safety point of view. My hotel was about 15 minutes by foot from the conference, but those 15 min= utes took me down streets full of homeless people, and three times I saw th= e police round people up off the streets. In front of my hotel I witnessed an old women being arrested. Second worst was Vienna. Beautiful city, but three people I know were pickp= ocketed on the train. Third would have been the recent Paris meeting, were it not for the fact th= at I wasn't in the hotel where the staff stole laptops from the rooms. I found Maastricht to be absolutely lovely. My hotel was once again about a= 15 minute walk from the conference venue, and on my walk I would see peopl= e on bicycles, families, and just plain friendly people who would wish me g= ood morning. I also spoke with people in the trains, and everyone was helpful and friend= ly. Y(J)S _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From randy@qti.qualcomm.com Fri Feb 22 00:51:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA6F21F8DC9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:51:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ISFTimSCzDRe for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A164921F8DBE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:51:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361523080; x=1393059080; h=message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:from:subject: mime-version; bh=sZPXncR85gMK251pRcajmPXiz1CBQUgz7QM+DRPNe+w=; b=emzHG+m+ZypuUo02i7dMXk96Xtis9V/MAqgp23rBX418WHI36BM3kkfK 2NneDi5reHf5GKcTdibMQWVwig0E5lLgZnrn9+1Zwilms7OzAXTRlZ3E7 WvLwZsMJ1TlNMhW/tJy/tx4dMGn9TTYcdNcMhBHTB8j+JU0wjdG4cmGmG 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,714,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24914383" Received: from ironmsg03-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.17]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2013 00:51:19 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,714,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="437159565" Received: from nasanexhc07.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.190]) by Ironmsg03-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 22 Feb 2013 00:51:19 -0800 Received: from [10.184.127.96] (172.30.39.5) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.190) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:51:18 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B10458C@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B10458C@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 00:49:50 -0800 To: Christer Holmberg , Yaakov Stein , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> From: Randall Gellens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Originating-IP: [172.30.39.5] Subject: Re: [86attendees] venues and personal safety X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:51:24 -0000 At 8:24 AM +0000 2/22/13, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Whatever city we meet in, I'm sure that people can find security > issues. In most cases, simply by using caution and common sense you > can avoid those... I have to say that such comments can come across as being dismissive and condescending. I'm sure you didn't intend that, that you're just reiterating oft-repeated standard advice. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- Lawyers' definition of an expert: "an idiot from out of town." From randy@psg.com Fri Feb 22 01:28:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B661121F8DFD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:28:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.003, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H9FDLoSlT2Hz for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C3C21F8DCA for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8ovo-0009pR-II; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:28:40 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:28:39 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Randall Gellens In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:28:42 -0000 >> relaxing civilized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for >> example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what little >> sanity i have left. > I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disney > on you. neither does my diabetes doctor. i am not only a friend of bob, but a close acquaintance of mary. btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby pub (so called) food? hamster empathy? why is it held up as a paradigm? i know the hotel was really great for the secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but i thought the environment sucked caterpillar snot. randy From antivano@cisco.com Fri Feb 22 01:52:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185B221F8E20 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:52:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oO+mgp8ZPxT4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5A721F8E05 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 01:52:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2269; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361526751; x=1362736351; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ksjgLEWBKP4YtXJhlYxFR/LxyHZ//m8KAUWusIouoMg=; b=LliUlPNSQFnX5Q9yeM0c2hYTX9MH/WKdZTIXTvUOYthGosXx6tL4Y8At XCOBZRaR+frMhXtCoMskEslp937RVamm2XJik52Sge3nJJ+t4c1AMbU35 E2cw/J5tfW0Ln5kby+obp5spVoTVUrgborua39QlpjAUhCEwfrGyEAEoX I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAHc/J1GtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABFwR+BCRZzgh8BAQEEAQEBaxsCAQgYCiQnCyUCBA0GAgEBBIgKDL84BI5dOIJfYQOIMp5rgweCJw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,714,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="180024689" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2013 09:52:30 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1M9qUhW029789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:52:30 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.138]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:52:30 -0600 From: "Anton Ivanov (antivano)" To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions Thread-Index: AQHOEOJTMmw8LlhZiUmFGeHbRp69VA== Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:52:29 +0000 Message-ID: <25112495C6AD994ABDDA1C8B6E03FE3003A676B0@xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 x-originating-ip: [10.20.143.184] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <68D860075E8BCC4EA36F4D87797E65FD@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:52:32 -0000 We will never agree on a venue. A recent example: For me the the venue for IETF83 firmly associates with its "sex trade=20 workers" in the lobby (of the kind most bars will not even let through=20 the door), nasty food either in 3 digits per dinner or spiked with flour=20 to ensure the mash and sauces do not disintegrate into a puddle=20 (entertaining to try to eat if you are severely gluten intolerant) and=20 rampant theft from rooms at a level I have never seen anywhere else. Disclaimer: while I did not get anything stolen as I did not leave=20 anything worth stealing, I had to change the suitcase - its zips were=20 irreversibly damaged by the daily poking through them with a pen by=20 whoever in the hotel staff was executing the well organized attendee=20 "luggage inspection". Let's not even try to get started on the amount of pickpocketers in the=20 subway on the way to it/from it or around major landmarks. I had to move=20 my wallet to a front pocket ~ 45 secs after entering the subway at Gare=20 du Nord as there were at least 2 or 3 people aiming to get near my back=20 pockets (I was dragging a suitcase so I had a "target" painted all over=20 me). So what? We took a vote and if memory serves me right 60%+ of the attendees voted=20 that it is a wonderful place to come again. A. On 22/02/13 09:28, Randy Bush wrote: >>> relaxing civilized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for >>> example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what little >>> sanity i have left. >> I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disney >> on you. > neither does my diabetes doctor. i am not only a friend of bob, but a > close acquaintance of mary. > > btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the > minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby pub (so called) food? > hamster empathy? why is it held up as a paradigm? i know the hotel was > really great for the secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but > i thought the environment sucked caterpillar snot. > > randy > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From leifj@mnt.se Fri Feb 22 02:24:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D6021F8E19 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q7Yrkjim2Js0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x230.google.com (mail-la0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5854C21F8E4B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id fq13so455482lab.35 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:46 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=zjpEThvz/RBqy3SUhcsm+YIbKfpLaP3dmkQB6OVdNZA=; b=R4HwlmHjFYm5oWmw7NqsbwXTIHDNh7XO3OISgIJq05izHFsdNO2rjVtlGEyNCaB0DU o/vtSnnqrx2+EiHq46/nc2qhMucZ5Pbs2XQFzM3VK5AxyK3H8OxguzEprQqLs7zzoho4 DtOawe3bcJypNodXiAeldg3DeOVprVnJa4yOYK9Mq139qdG0Xh3FIZtJO8cNMG5BknGP vFMK0QnYxj7SuAkMQCxUabG4O1wVOb4XSPwcbiSf6cievsInL0D8c2P+puSGlTFkPP1k Qk86OLSMycm9ewhP0yI9D/B+UGy/SGnpFASrp6JlzMa9tigePmKydKAc3jvJazC32yrx xufg== X-Received: by 10.152.46.12 with SMTP id r12mr1292705lam.15.1361528686188; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:6b0:7:0:a89b:e03a:14f4:e34f? ([2001:6b0:7:0:a89b:e03a:14f4:e34f]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l1sm720779lbn.8.2013.02.22.02.24.44 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 02:24:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <51274768.7010203@mnt.se> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:24:40 +0100 From: Leif Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkJYXT3OXBcq8doMIHELGhB+rWiUfXJ9JvHZ9JzuUdpV1NIey6reIpQv5Y8Dq8Mwlge0mXa Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:24:48 -0000 On 02/22/2013 07:22 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> I doubt you're unique in enjoying interesting locations, but IMHO >> that's an entirely separate and distinct criterion from what makes >> for a good IETF meeting. > raised by a FLW student, i think that environment has a significant > effect on human interaction. hence, i have hosted small meetings in > places such as timberline lodge, the bloedel reserve japanese teahouse, > fort warden, ... > > large meetings are tougher. and the internal environment may be more > important than the external. but relaxing civilized dinners etc. in > maastricht and hiroshima, for example, went a long way toward helping > me to maintain what little sanity i have left. > As somebody who wish we could go back to to back to Minneapolis soon I wonder what this sais about me... Maybe I'm just too Scandinavian :-) Cheers Leif From rg+ietf@qti.qualcomm.com Fri Feb 22 04:40:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41FA21F8E95 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:40:38 -0800 (PST) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PzFRhlLFfKCS for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabertooth01.qualcomm.com (sabertooth01.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1C021F8E8B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:40:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1361536828; x=1393072828; h=from:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:to:subject: cc; bh=pSmCRCQ0glLr48RXmfXINMXNOxx5cB48AlP7DWI4kog=; b=lM7y6fr+drEI4xBMDJqzSFQe4HekMCmh+EpHd+CUdksyXz8nvprdS04z mx9jfN1+sUXT7MjuNPbXuFhwKIvdIF4toT2hu4X8Ovp9q6TwehzG0cILR WrHUn7LXvmcfYRwn8+/FLVb7BPut4NJhteeyjLo40BbFPXwXQORxkYPg4 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,715,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="24933798" Received: from unknown (HELO Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com) ([172.30.48.19]) by sabertooth01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2013 04:40:28 -0800 From: Randall Gellens X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,715,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="403642903" Received: from myvpn-l-dyp000796dys.ras.qualcomm.com (HELO [10.184.127.96]) ([10.64.136.16]) by Ironmsg04-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2013 04:40:14 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:35:53 -0800 To: Randy Bush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28 Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:40:39 -0000 At 6:28 PM +0900 2/22/13, Randy Bush wrote: > btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the > minneapolis venue? The hotel was big enough and was easy to get around in and there are many good places to eat nearby. There are also a lot of hotels nearby. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- The budget should be balanced. The treasury should be refilled. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials should be controlled. --Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 B.C.) From mcr@sandelman.ca Fri Feb 22 06:09:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7FA021F8ECA for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:09:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6QuiE6oGUtyO for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1567521F893F for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460A52016D; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:16:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id CE8276387F; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C067963765; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Randy Bush In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3-dev; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:09:51 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> "Randy" =3D=3D Randy Bush writes: Randy> btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing Randy> about the minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby Randy> pub (so called) food? hamster empathy? why is it held up as Randy> a paradigm? i know the hotel was really great for the Randy> secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but i thought Randy> the environment sucked caterpillar snot. 1) lobby bar had full menu, and good wifi coverage, and people chilling there were easily seen. 2) the second level hampster maze provided a good selection of food for lunch, and unlike the one at Atlanta, we weren't at one end of it. 3) the street level had few "hostiles" (I walked a lot in Atlanta. I felt sad for the homeless, not threatened by them, but I understand I'm not everyone) 4) the hotel was neither too hot nor too cold 5) because we did return multiple times, we got the hang of things 6) many cheaper alternative hotels nearby 7) (eventually) got transit from airport to hotel 8) not a direct flight for me, but there certainly were lots of 2-hop choic= es 9) train is an option, but I never got a chance to try it. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [=20 ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect= [=20 ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [=20 =09 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUAUSd76YqHRg3pndX9AQJxkwQAq/MyhUgts0TWT7/tRqDQ8BBJWjmBCOVH fM6VIewJOPRNHbsDt92fIA2PBqaAJ/SczQI4wcunU6hxaFcJPrgOMz3JVzrdkRZ+ iv6ZQ/XU6gXl0ldvbXPaJf3kastt5NY0JPcaDi/RHnw007Wg3/eJ1uCokxWQR+Dw a/bsgoyJu14= =WcIK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Feb 22 07:11:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144E721F8A56 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:11:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kWGmRyumIlYl for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E056821F8891 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MFApcG029806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:10:52 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MFAmI3011656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:10:48 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.35]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:10:48 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOEQ7Lia02eoDeF0+670WeaHyPQg== Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:10:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3956 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361545854-00001023-F3FEB360/0-0/0-0 Cc: Randy Bush , ext Michael Richardson , Randall Gellens Subject: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:11:08 -0000 Dear IAOC Members, All, I would appreciate it if we could structure the next after-meeting-survey i= n a way that the community can enter hers/his preferences on the most impor= tant criteria for the meeting site selection. I thought this information ha= s been already collected but it seems it would be good if we refresh the co= mmunity input. I can think on following (most important) criteria: a) food options in the near. This is best fulfilled if the location is in t= he downtown of a big city. Basically people don't want to walk or drive mor= e than 20 minutes to the next restaurant. b) easy travel to meeting location from over the world, i.e. a big hub airp= ort in the near (e.g. Chicago, NY, Tokyo, etc.) c) sufficient amount of alternative hotels nearby, d) huge hotel facilities sufficient for approx. 1800+ persons, e) hotel has sufficient places like huge lobby or other general purpose sit= ting area for site discussions during or between sessions, f) hotel willing to fulfill different dietary requests, g) less crowded season or location (I am also fine with Minneapolis in wint= er but Orlando in March is a bad example), h) no big construction in the hotel (disturbing people with the noise level= during the sessions) I also would (re)ask the survey participants which locations they liked and= which they disliked. I generally don't have anything against it if meeting= locations get recycled. This is at the end better than having very bad exp= eriences. Examples for locations where I felt very comfortable were: Chicago, Philade= lphia, Vancouver, Beijing, Paris, Stockholm, Quebec and even Minneapolis. It comes out criteria a) is (for my person) more important than any other! I hope the next survey defines the community consensus for the planning of = meeting locations for the next 5-6 years (after then I most likely will enj= oy my life somewhere at the Mediterranean sea ;). Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of ext Michael Richardson > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:09 PM > To: Randy Bush > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Randall Gellens > Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all= ] Background > on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) >=20 >=20 > >>>>> "Randy" =3D=3D Randy Bush writes: > Randy> btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing > Randy> about the minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby > Randy> pub (so called) food? hamster empathy? why is it held up as > Randy> a paradigm? i know the hotel was really great for the > Randy> secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but i thought > Randy> the environment sucked caterpillar snot. >=20 > 1) lobby bar had full menu, and good wifi coverage, and people chilling > there were easily seen. > 2) the second level hampster maze provided a good selection of food for > lunch, and unlike the one at Atlanta, we weren't at one end of it. > 3) the street level had few "hostiles" (I walked a lot in Atlanta. > I felt sad for the homeless, not threatened by them, but I understand > I'm not everyone) > 4) the hotel was neither too hot nor too cold > 5) because we did return multiple times, we got the hang of things > 6) many cheaper alternative hotels nearby > 7) (eventually) got transit from airport to hotel > 8) not a direct flight for me, but there certainly were lots of 2-hop cho= ices > 9) train is an option, but I never got a chance to try it. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh netwo= rks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network archite= ct [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails= [ >=20 From tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Fri Feb 22 07:39:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4278221F8E50 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:39:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aEIZqdbEqxEk for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6203921F8E47 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1MFdVhg010821 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:39:31 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk r1MFdVhg010821 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=200903; t=1361547571; bh=lv7UQj2mi+qyMCjG8DhfRDvAz1E=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=xTBXQPUp6K1TDNMfeNFDimv46zzc5R6YIbmm5eIZu8HymKkmKfUyc3EJGxBhporK2 meOu15/HaviyZNjjHSvrhtqQuO8f79LMsLmr1vu/kBVbBv1CmOIIxQCLVX/Kbam/eq W9uxmO/HfX0feYGOYWQIq4lfb9+4nPlaPv+mFzJ8= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id p1LFdV0430619270iy ret-id none; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:39:31 +0000 Received: from ip-163-003.eduroam.soton.ac.uk (ip-163-003.eduroam.soton.ac.uk [152.78.163.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1MFdTjb008611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:39:29 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:39:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=p1LFdV043061927000; tid=p1LFdV0430619270iy; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=1:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: r1MFdVhg010821 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:39:33 -0000 On 22 Feb 2013, at 12:35, Randall Gellens = wrote: > At 6:28 PM +0900 2/22/13, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 >> btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the >> minneapolis venue? >=20 > The hotel was big enough and was easy to get around in and there are = many good places to eat nearby. There are also a lot of hotels nearby. Yep. A solid 'all in one' venue - good meeting facilities, pretty cheap, = good places to eat/drink/meet nearby, some decent hotel alternatives. = Same reason I like Prague, for example. Though I think options for direct flights to Minneapolis have reduced of = late. =20 Tim=20= From ietf@rozanak.com Fri Feb 22 07:53:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D8821F8E71 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:53:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J+8YVLDcCSgR for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F7621F8E22 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from FB10H117WS01 ([141.89.226.146]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Me8la-1UVWWT331i-00PzDn; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:53:34 -0500 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: "'Ersue, Mehmet \(NSN - DE/Munich\)'" References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:53:22 +0100 Message-ID: <002501ce1114$c504d750$4f0e85f0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AQHOEQ7Lia02eoDeF0+670WeaHyPQpiF/Hxw Content-Language: de X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:+oUXZJBjUcv4t6LJKbCe+DrfRojfqFyvtZZp8iAl3OF nzcyABH5KR1LGtud94uI4SPv5fSSsRHgBiHCYukrjgbZxsDxj1 UrQQY5wH5xurD0Nq2IjGHHUyF+N3T+XTVpnxuBJm2Tdzum1Wb0 tXN3Hh3m8PSKrORITh4ctbX9WwAs/D+y6x5tDdS+vzpZkupBp0 NlqGkUCRK0K191GBRbgSg48EueEoAmVlyE8xJTKq7gEHDC1BMI 682Qw869/ywkyqr3QDqSTY9h2D6KShGbdYyNnuP+Otg2iGY5nV hWRFrVyRUcMFnXxerPQWRbEOy3mNAnv3nkvAmmcpJut3yCamNR LpFtAQdICL4JY+qGYE/s= Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:53:39 -0000 As a member of this list I would like to offer my views on the subject of the choice of venues for future IETF meetings. First, let me say that I have not attended a lot of IETF meetings so I don't know which venues in the US are the best and offer the best means of transportation. Overall, it is my opinion that Europe and eastern part of the US present the best options. Since Europe is centrally located, most people from all countries find it easy to travel there. But countries like China or Canada are a little bit too far for the people who come from other parts of the world. I can say that north Europe in general offers the best means of transportation too. The countries like Germany, France, Belgium, Holland, etc. Of course it will depend on your hosts too... About the place of the next IETF venue, Berlin, I can say that you will not encounter the same problems as you had or have in the present or last IETF meetings. The transportations (bus, train, tram, etc) support all parts of the city and are, for the most part, quite punctual. The city boasts many hotels in all price ranges and as the transportation is great, you can stay just about anywhere. There are lots of restaurants around that are open until mid-night. If offers a lot to do and see and is alive at night as well. The public transportation operates until 3 AM and then starts again at 5:30 AM. Also, if you are lucky and the weather is warm enough, you can swim in a lake and take boat rides around the city :-) Hosnieh -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: Freitag, 22. Februar 2013 16:11 To: Bob Hinden; 86attendees@ietf.org Cc: Randy Bush; ext Michael Richardson; Randall Gellens Subject: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Dear IAOC Members, All, I would appreciate it if we could structure the next after-meeting-survey in a way that the community can enter hers/his preferences on the most important criteria for the meeting site selection. I thought this information has been already collected but it seems it would be good if we refresh the community input. I can think on following (most important) criteria: a) food options in the near. This is best fulfilled if the location is in the downtown of a big city. Basically people don't want to walk or drive more than 20 minutes to the next restaurant. b) easy travel to meeting location from over the world, i.e. a big hub airport in the near (e.g. Chicago, NY, Tokyo, etc.) c) sufficient amount of alternative hotels nearby, d) huge hotel facilities sufficient for approx. 1800+ persons, e) hotel has sufficient places like huge lobby or other general purpose sitting area for site discussions during or between sessions, f) hotel willing to fulfill different dietary requests, g) less crowded season or location (I am also fine with Minneapolis in winter but Orlando in March is a bad example), h) no big construction in the hotel (disturbing people with the noise level during the sessions) I also would (re)ask the survey participants which locations they liked and which they disliked. I generally don't have anything against it if meeting locations get recycled. This is at the end better than having very bad experiences. Examples for locations where I felt very comfortable were: Chicago, Philadelphia, Vancouver, Beijing, Paris, Stockholm, Quebec and even Minneapolis. It comes out criteria a) is (for my person) more important than any other! I hope the next survey defines the community consensus for the planning of meeting locations for the next 5-6 years (after then I most likely will enjoy my life somewhere at the Mediterranean sea ;). Cheers, Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Michael > Richardson > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 3:09 PM > To: Randy Bush > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Randall Gellens > Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: > [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for > IETF 86) > > > >>>>> "Randy" == Randy Bush writes: > Randy> btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing > Randy> about the minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby > Randy> pub (so called) food? hamster empathy? why is it held up as > Randy> a paradigm? i know the hotel was really great for the > Randy> secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but i thought > Randy> the environment sucked caterpillar snot. > > 1) lobby bar had full menu, and good wifi coverage, and people chilling > there were easily seen. > 2) the second level hampster maze provided a good selection of food for > lunch, and unlike the one at Atlanta, we weren't at one end of it. > 3) the street level had few "hostiles" (I walked a lot in Atlanta. > I felt sad for the homeless, not threatened by them, but I understand > I'm not everyone) > 4) the hotel was neither too hot nor too cold > 5) because we did return multiple times, we got the hang of things > 6) many cheaper alternative hotels nearby > 7) (eventually) got transit from airport to hotel > 8) not a direct flight for me, but there certainly were lots of 2-hop > choices > 9) train is an option, but I never got a chance to try it. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ > _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From john+ietf@jck.com Fri Feb 22 08:01:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2EE21F8E3A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:01:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V6tkqE0CU1CX for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754D021F8DF8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8v3O-000Jbr-DJ; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:00:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:00:46 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , Bob Hinden , 86attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Randy Bush , ext Michael Richardson , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:01:04 -0000 --On Friday, February 22, 2013 15:10 +0000 "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" wrote: > Dear IAOC Members, All, > > I would appreciate it if we could structure the next > after-meeting-survey in a way that the community can enter > hers/his preferences on the most important criteria for the > meeting site selection. I thought this information has been > already collected but it seems it would be good if we refresh > the community input. > > I can think on following (most important) criteria: >... > I hope the next survey defines the community consensus for the > planning of meeting locations for the next 5-6 years (after > then I most likely will enjoy my life somewhere at the > Mediterranean sea ;). Ah, and you have just identified all three of the problems with this proposal (not that I'm against it). (1) While people would quibble about both the questions and the answers, the list you have is nothing new and reaffirming the answers and ideal criteria now won't accomplish much of anything... especially since there will often be a sponsor who wants the meeting at some particular location, another body whose meetings should be accommodated (possibly with claims about cost savings), etc. I, at least, think those considerations are legitimate even if we need to be careful about their applications. (2) A list of near-mandatory features with more than about three items on it will create a sufficiently over-constrained system to allow the decision-making process to make its own choices (explicitly or not) about what is most important. That may or may not be reasonable, but doesn't change the status quo. (3) Most of the venues, hotels, and contracts for at least the first half the "next 5-6 years" are already in place. If the survey you propose is taken in April and you then complain that some 2014 facility (or even the Intercontinental Berlin) doesn't conform to the answers/requirements, the response will necessarily be "that decision was made before the survey was taken so it couldn't be considered, we know more now and will certainly consider that for meetings starting in 2017 or 2018. Of course, that leaves out another factor which is that the people surveyed are those who attend meetings in person, excluding anyone who might have attended were arrangements more attractive. Sample bias can be a pretty big thing... or at least the basis of a claim about silent majorities. That is, unfortunately, reality if we want long-term scheduling and commitments. I have no idea what to do about the side effects, but I'm pretty certain that more surveys are unlikely to help much in the short term. best, john From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Fri Feb 22 08:02:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9547321F8DF8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:02:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1NyN8lY0zeVj for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E29221F8E7B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D895428072 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:02:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=wmnB2XXIDTHzYn6qQ+GQD0GGGQV9PW0buNifLjNv5MAFY9hiWuyCb3OVWmqT 8gG9NFNCjKVRG7OevQAdXMJzM1dycI1NND6sFSIoV+6UwNWcKZP2aLV10Hs76hh6 YgBQuw9fm1dZ45zNwxKWUs8bS1E/1pKc4eAcXe7Sk9FyX+E= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=fkYpYi89O3H+Rjg8AAlkkAZZf3g=; b=uCINajFV6Qx9a Ni/SW01qc5EU7kQSb68qdAZP9y/BJKF7goshZPcplVZpzNveU/7N0CPcdjR6CP3K nV48rHELTAu9a3ox3RDKYYpgsrXtJht8lUtbuYw/LjfUjIsxLheufQhKwRMtDmn3 UsuEDdx8ayt603RElv9YFC9K7EW2G8= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a71.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E02A42806E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:02:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <512796A2.1060505@nomountain.net> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 07:02:42 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:02:51 -0000 On 2/22/13 7:00 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > That is, unfortunately, reality if we want long-term scheduling > and commitments. I have no idea what to do about the side > effects, but I'm pretty certain that more surveys are unlikely > to help much in the short term. Hear, hear. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Fri Feb 22 08:24:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3E821F8EF4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFCg7njS-UIs for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f182.google.com (mail-ve0-f182.google.com [209.85.128.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7D021F8E9B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f182.google.com with SMTP id ox1so698554veb.27 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=UI+rLeZzifXHr52VCxRem1Uw9l0MdHvz0vFCRKXJJB0=; b=Bi821eXm5R5is2ZMN0vGkOsJPMkf/vdSjNtsEe2uqcCs8U0bcs8pGCFX8U3kKUWgbo Mfj8oX9VuHwSbKjtUjizsTQvdDNqhbiIpNHf9qXYHas99mHoJ18YDRAydy43kbH5yT44 zF+aXch5uZ92B3ZQRlcX7S/T08Kew4WQkAFreBSj8LP+dq/3BXAWnHMWjk+RhH1/s923 OFBLkikmk9hyt5bhNcue19JAHc57SQxKgqHCaitVg+HYoRcpE7m9j9wca/qNaCbRvVHQ QSYICmdxHWzbkrEpq8lZm5NcueYuG6Hh9LMXYF8RrN9eGpAuqyhfZ+jiId9n5nEWuRiY Hu5g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.220.6 with SMTP id hw6mr3296750vcb.59.1361550287561; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:24:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:24:47 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Randy Bush Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cfcbde3bed7604d652a165 Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:24:52 -0000 --14dae9cfcbde3bed7604d652a165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Here's my list: 1) Food is accessible. It's not absolutely optimal but there are decent restaurants nearby including the one where Mary Tyler Moore is eating in the show's opening (the exact table is even labeled;). There is also a juice bar near that same restaurant. For me, the important thing is that I know a priori when we go to return venues where to get food. My routine now is to rent a car the first day to get from the airport and to make a Whole Foods run. Then I can drop the car on Sunday morning a couple blocks from the venue. 2) Price. While my company pays my expenses, I still personally find it hard paying >$500 airfares for the US. But, the hotels are quite reasonable as are the meals, so I don't get any hassle like I get when we stay in more expensive cities. 3) Accessibility. MSP is an international airport and I can get a direct flight. I imagine it's at least two hops for other folks from major East or West Coast cities. But, now that they have the light rail to the city, there are lots of options to get to the hotel from the airport. 4) Lots of hotel choices and very reasonably priced. Although, I have gotten so I do stay at the venue since the habitrail closes at night and I don't like cold weather. 5) It's quite clear that this is not a boondoggle. We do get occasional comments when meetings are in resort destinations. My list of optimal meeting locations based on past meetings would be as follows: North America: Minneapolis (by far), San Francisco, Atlanta (although I personally don't like that city), Philadelphia, Vancouver and DC. That would give us 6 hotels to rotate through over 3-4 years. Other than Miinneapolis they all have issues with lots of homeless people/panhandlers. Philadelphia has a tad more safety issues IMHO, but there was a great selection of alternative hotels including the Resident Inn where I had access to a kitchen. And, getting from the airport to the meeting venue was a piece of cake with the train. I think the homeless issue may be a factor that sets Minneapolis apart as it's just too dang cold in November in March for folks to be on the street. I would guess they have a very low population of homeless. And, while I personally love San Diego, the venue we had there was quite sub-optimal. I thought all the Asian venues were good. While Yokohama and Hiroshima were a distance from major airports, the trains there are fantastic and the bus option to Yokohama was more than satisfactory. I think the optimal there is Taipei followed by Hiroshima. The big issue with Beijing is the air quality - it's not acceptable - we got very, very lucky last time. I still believe Paris might be the best choice due to accessibility but the main hotel wasn't acceptable, however, there were lots of options. The Air France bus was extremely convenient. And, while folks were concerned about theft, pick pockets are in any major European destination. I travel frequently to Europe and using a money belt offsets the primary concerns about pickpockets. London is a good location, but I know it's outrageously expensive for most. But, I think it is by far the most accessible. However, following my off season suggestion (we were in London during the summer last round), I think it is still manageable. I travel there often on vacation and you can find good hotel prices including at the Metropole where we met last time. I personally have stopped staying at the hotel due to service issues, but again there are *lots* of nearby options. Overall Stockholm is good but the food is quite expensive (although quite accessible) and it's multi-hop for many of us. I will note that I think Madrid could be a really good choice. I traveled there in November and it meets the requirements for accessibility and food options beyond anyone's expectations IMHO including gluten-free pizza (with GF beer) and an exclusively GF bakery (which I am now terribly missing). Regards, Mary. On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >> relaxing civilized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for > >> example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what little > >> sanity i have left. > > I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disney > > on you. > > neither does my diabetes doctor. i am not only a friend of bob, but a > close acquaintance of mary. > > btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the > minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby pub (so called) food? > hamster empathy? why is it held up as a paradigm? i know the hotel was > really great for the secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but > i thought the environment sucked caterpillar snot. > > randy > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > --14dae9cfcbde3bed7604d652a165 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's my list:
1) Food is accessible. =A0It's not absolutely o= ptimal but there are decent restaurants nearby including the one where Mary= Tyler Moore is eating in the show's opening (the exact table is even l= abeled;). =A0There is also a juice bar near that same restaurant. =A0For me= , the important thing is that I know a priori when we go to return venues w= here to get food. =A0My routine now is to rent a car the first day to get f= rom the airport and to make a Whole Foods run. =A0Then I can drop the car o= n Sunday morning a couple blocks from the venue.=A0
2) Price. =A0While my company pays my expenses, I still personally fin= d it hard paying >$500 airfares for the US. =A0But, the hotels are quite= reasonable as are the meals, so I don't get any hassle like I get when= we stay in more expensive cities. =A0
3) Accessibility. =A0MSP is an international airport and I can get a d= irect flight. =A0I imagine it's at least two hops for other folks from = major East or West Coast cities. But, now that they have the light rail to = the city, there are lots of options to get to the hotel from the airport. = =A0
4) Lots of hotel choices and very reasonably priced. Although, I have = gotten so I do stay at the venue since the habitrail closes at night and I = don't like cold weather.=A0
5) It's quite clear that this= is not a boondoggle. =A0 We do get occasional comments when meetings are i= n resort destinations. =A0

My list of optimal meeting locations based on past meet= ings would be as follows:
North America: =A0Minneapolis (by far),= San Francisco, Atlanta (although I personally don't like that city), P= hiladelphia, Vancouver and DC. =A0 That would give us 6 hotels to rotate th= rough over 3-4 years. =A0 Other than Miinneapolis they all have issues with= lots of homeless people/panhandlers. =A0Philadelphia has a tad more safety= issues IMHO, but there was a great selection of alternative hotels includi= ng the Resident Inn where I had access to a kitchen. =A0And, getting from t= he airport to the meeting venue was a piece of cake with the train. =A0I th= ink the homeless issue may be a factor that sets Minneapolis apart as it= 9;s just too dang cold in November in March for folks to be on the street. = =A0I would guess they have a very low population of homeless. =A0And, while= I personally love San Diego, the venue we had there was quite sub-optimal.= =A0

I thought all the Asian venues were good. =A0While Yoko= hama and Hiroshima were a distance from major airports, the trains there ar= e fantastic and the bus option to Yokohama was more than satisfactory. =A0I= think the optimal there is Taipei followed by Hiroshima. =A0The big issue = with Beijing is the air quality - it's not acceptable - we got very, ve= ry lucky last time.=A0

I still believe Paris might be the best choice due to a= ccessibility but the main hotel wasn't acceptable, however, there were = lots of options. =A0The Air France bus was extremely convenient. And, while= folks were concerned about theft, pick pockets are in any major European d= estination. =A0I travel frequently to Europe and using a money belt offsets= the primary concerns about pickpockets. =A0London is a good location, but = I know it's outrageously expensive for most. =A0But, I think it is by f= ar the most accessible. =A0However, following my off season suggestion (we = were in London during the summer last round), I think it is still manageabl= e. =A0I travel there often on vacation and you can find good hotel prices i= ncluding at the Metropole where we met last time. =A0I personally have stop= ped staying at the hotel due to service issues, but again there are *lots* = of nearby options. =A0Overall Stockholm is good but the food is quite expen= sive (although quite accessible) and it's multi-hop for many of us. =A0= I will note that I think Madrid could be a really good choice. =A0I travel= ed there in November and it meets the requirements for accessibility and fo= od options beyond anyone's expectations IMHO including gluten-free pizz= a (with GF beer) and an exclusively GF bakery (which I am now terribly miss= ing). =A0

Regards,
Mary.=A0

On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Randy Bush <rand= y@psg.com> wrote:
>> =A0relaxing civil= ized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for
>> =A0example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what lit= tle
>> =A0sanity i have left.
> I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disn= ey
> on you.

neither does my diabetes doctor. =A0i am not only a friend of bob, bu= t a
close acquaintance of mary.

btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the
minneapolis venue? =A01950s hotel nostalgia? =A0nearby pub (so called) food= ?
hamster empathy? =A0why is it held up as a paradigm? =A0i know the hotel wa= s
really great for the secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. =A0but i thought the environment sucked caterpillar snot.

randy
_____________________= __________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--14dae9cfcbde3bed7604d652a165-- From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Feb 22 08:52:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C8021F8E45 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:52:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.620, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZOiXtkx+Rq1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D5621F8E3C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MGq58Q018391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:52:05 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MGq2mF021337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:52:02 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:52:02 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext John C Klensin , Bob Hinden , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOERXTNWrUCsZ3TUWonM4eLMhx5piGFMYA Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3895 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361551927-0000547A-53ADF0F7/0-0/0-0 Cc: Randy Bush , ext Michael Richardson , Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:52:11 -0000 I believe till 2019 we have plenty of occasions to do it right. Also for the locations already decided we can avoid suburban locations. Like Dublin, also other cities (e.g. London) have unacceptable suburbs. I would like to suggest to draw a line under it and do it better in the fut= ure. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of ext John C Klensin > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 5:01 PM > To: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); Bob Hinden; 86attendees@ietf.org > Cc: Randy Bush; ext Michael Richardson; Randall Gellens > Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting sit= ing > decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Roy= ale Venue for > IETF 86) >=20 >=20 >=20 > --On Friday, February 22, 2013 15:10 +0000 "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - > DE/Munich)" wrote: >=20 > > Dear IAOC Members, All, > > > > I would appreciate it if we could structure the next > > after-meeting-survey in a way that the community can enter > > hers/his preferences on the most important criteria for the > > meeting site selection. I thought this information has been > > already collected but it seems it would be good if we refresh > > the community input. > > > > I can think on following (most important) criteria: > >... > > I hope the next survey defines the community consensus for the > > planning of meeting locations for the next 5-6 years (after > > then I most likely will enjoy my life somewhere at the > > Mediterranean sea ;). >=20 > Ah, and you have just identified all three of the problems with > this proposal (not that I'm against it). >=20 > (1) While people would quibble about both the questions and the > answers, the list you have is nothing new and reaffirming the > answers and ideal criteria now won't accomplish much of > anything... especially since there will often be a sponsor who > wants the meeting at some particular location, another body > whose meetings should be accommodated (possibly with claims > about cost savings), etc. I, at least, think those > considerations are legitimate even if we need to be careful > about their applications. >=20 > (2) A list of near-mandatory features with more than about three > items on it will create a sufficiently over-constrained system > to allow the decision-making process to make its own choices > (explicitly or not) about what is most important. That may or > may not be reasonable, but doesn't change the status quo. >=20 > (3) Most of the venues, hotels, and contracts for at least the > first half the "next 5-6 years" are already in place. If the > survey you propose is taken in April and you then complain that > some 2014 facility (or even the Intercontinental Berlin) doesn't > conform to the answers/requirements, the response will > necessarily be "that decision was made before the survey was > taken so it couldn't be considered, we know more now and will > certainly consider that for meetings starting in 2017 or 2018. >=20 > Of course, that leaves out another factor which is that the > people surveyed are those who attend meetings in person, > excluding anyone who might have attended were arrangements more > attractive. Sample bias can be a pretty big thing... or at > least the basis of a claim about silent majorities. >=20 > That is, unfortunately, reality if we want long-term scheduling > and commitments. I have no idea what to do about the side > effects, but I'm pretty certain that more surveys are unlikely > to help much in the short term. >=20 > best, > john >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Feb 22 09:29:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DAF21F8DBD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:29:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Npk2CvRvLBk3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207A521F8D0B for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:29:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MHTFqR029771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:29:15 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1MHTCYi006325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:29:12 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC012.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.43) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:29:12 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC012.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.43]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:29:12 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Randy Bush , Randall Gellens Thread-Topic: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) Thread-Index: AQHOEN8Fmj3I4gHWVUmIsG9VZKyfPpiGHgtg Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:29:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 2433 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361554155-00001023-CA30ABF7/0-0/0-0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:29:29 -0000 > btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the > minneapolis venue? =20 We had long discussions on Minneapolis earlier. Check this fun mail from 20= 01: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg16921.html Here the list of reasons from that mail: Top 10 List of Reasons to Hold 50th IETF in Minneapolis in March 10. Fewer 'tourists' in meetings=20 9. 'Mary Tyler Moore Show' reruns on hotel cable 24 hours a day 8. No mosquitos 7. IETF social: ice fishing 6. Easy to convince your boss that this really isn't a junket 5. POISSON debate on "Code of Conduct" draft to be resolved by snowball fig= ht=20 4. 50th IETF t-shirts made of genuine Polarfleece (tm) 3. Alternative was Thule, Greenland 2. IP tunnels through anything, even thick snow 1. Governor Ventura to referee contentious WGs (if it doesn't violate his X= FL =20 contract, of course) BTW: I like number 7 very much. Even if it was cold in winter, Minneapolis was a good location for people w= ho wanted to work, with an international airport and food options in the ne= ar. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] = On > Behalf Of ext Randy Bush > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:29 AM > To: Randall Gellens > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all= ] Background > on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) >=20 > >> relaxing civilized dinners etc. in maastricht and hiroshima, for > >> example, went a long way toward helping me to maintain what little > >> sanity i have left. > > I don't want to think about the effect of dinners at Downtown Disney > > on you. >=20 > neither does my diabetes doctor. i am not only a friend of bob, but a > close acquaintance of mary. >=20 > btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the > minneapolis venue? 1950s hotel nostalgia? nearby pub (so called) food? > hamster empathy? why is it held up as a paradigm? i know the hotel was > really great for the secretariat, and that is not inconsequential. but > i thought the environment sucked caterpillar snot. >=20 > randy > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From leifj@mnt.se Fri Feb 22 09:43:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF94E21F88F7 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.433 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.433 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tod0Au0FtaLZ for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981B621F8430 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so753101lbc.35 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:50 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=Hu7TZ9VBl3gjzCbS/64vWE+on+5lrl+ARa/BNw+1+v4=; b=LGGw3cu5ELEyAdILzkupq0yaBTheWF5GjBsEwazYznHAmpdcs47iyYrFTb3NvvIjlH RSm72EMBrxSN+FZ1lrW7BJfsF1PN7ZzGmvxkm6RoBs75ImwtFAB4hWvF61cdPLVdjJWM MMpc49uhCFuG61Yv20OogR502GRUoVOIg+LpNgXN6jd+suAGWGTxZCpKEhwSVu3Hmo2K noX/LiwB6KlO05tpeoQvUBHp1PZQJklgfNmD8m5cvloaapI2BgBB2QyuSJAR1KTQUFlH iDamSkzF43UZWvZWzDZknisj673HkNpPtAfL0Nl0k7Yu2yqjVdGNxKdGdBWCx1eQ/2H1 ODUg== X-Received: by 10.152.47.97 with SMTP id c1mr2519125lan.6.1361555030497; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.244] (tb62-102-145-131.cust.teknikbyran.com. [62.102.145.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mq7sm1681726lab.1.2013.02.22.09.43.48 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:43:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5127AE52.2030403@mnt.se> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:43:46 +0100 From: Leif Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnEAsZBk0I4H8fvhFH8VK+TNrLshmhymNKEgCK/w2SFPO/Y/7zTqE5xLxJDB2l03zpsfpBj Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 17:43:53 -0000 On 02/22/2013 06:29 PM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >> btw, as attendees, can people tell me one really nice thing about the >> minneapolis venue? > We had long discussions on Minneapolis earlier. Check this fun mail from 2001: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg16921.html > > Here the list of reasons from that mail: > > Top 10 List of Reasons to Hold 50th IETF in Minneapolis in March > 10. Fewer 'tourists' in meetings > 9. 'Mary Tyler Moore Show' reruns on hotel cable 24 hours a day > 8. No mosquitos > 7. IETF social: ice fishing > 6. Easy to convince your boss that this really isn't a junket > 5. POISSON debate on "Code of Conduct" draft to be resolved by snowball fight > 4. 50th IETF t-shirts made of genuine Polarfleece (tm) > 3. Alternative was Thule, Greenland > 2. IP tunnels through anything, even thick snow > 1. Governor Ventura to referee contentious WGs (if it doesn't violate his XFL > contract, of course) Ja-sure-yabettcha! From melinda.shore@nomountain.net Fri Feb 22 10:01:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2A521F87C5 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c92V7tpEJ53D for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (caiajhbdcaid.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F1921F87B1 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A563894065 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:07 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=nomountain.net; h=message-id:date :from:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=nomountain.net ; b=gppTBdFaoGRDd206joERZ2aO0SdCHW2PzEWRm18df8ouVein0olFZLfo5SRJ nmbvgNFFFvI0TwRotJ+Ys4iYJdNVs8y2S9kG56zVEJdiVC6JAeS6XHTpIt3dkurt DoVJcqCTVL79gsDxBk68ZIf6Dmemq8DuPs8pVC2+ztwVD9E= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=nomountain.net; h= message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s= nomountain.net; bh=gYbDQAzwl+8CWkuL05DEybu6pt4=; b=dx8Hai8rVSMKN w5pOEFFaQyIXnKdQpkPpkwWghxqcBWKoSzVy8J6AQkveqatsAaZ/V5bTMH4ahPBW j1aDexLdB8dB5qxi7r/jB3ITPWT2IoHLqupI3ThBG1B1+ytFhPtmT9UWK3vPWKR1 6bL0g8jzP0Sjyqfnc498ctatkPpCqk= Received: from spandex.local (216-67-48-121-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net [216.67.48.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: melinda.shore@nomountain.net) by homiemail-a77.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51B309405E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 10:01:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5127B261.4010306@nomountain.net> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 09:01:05 -0900 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <6544E0DE0E5887BA0732AE0E@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] After-meeting-surveys WAS:RE: IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:01:09 -0000 On 2/22/13 7:52 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > I believe till 2019 we have plenty of occasions to do it right. Not if we get bogged down in discussions of personal preference. Personally, I really dislike hot weather. That has no bearing on the business of the IETF. The problems with Orlando have not much to do with personal preference and everything to do with accessibility. If this discussion gets sidetracked into statements about who likes to do what on holiday it's not very much likely to be useful. Melinda -- Melinda Shore No Mountain Software melinda.shore@nomountain.net "Software longa, hardware brevis." From randy@psg.com Fri Feb 22 12:13:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9848021F8DA0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:13:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCJzxXS5AbED for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D34221F8CAB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8yzp-000CT8-Fd; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:13:29 +0000 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 05:13:28 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Michael Richardson In-Reply-To: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Randall Gellens Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions (was: Re: [86all] Background on the Selection of the Caribe Royale Venue for IETF 86) X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 20:13:33 -0000 > 1) lobby bar had full menu full of crap > 2) the second level hampster maze provided a good selection of food for > lunch i think we disagree on what we call food > 3) the street level had few "hostiles" point randy From leifj@mnt.se Fri Feb 22 13:02:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB8021F8EBE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.808, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yA9Q9645mAEB for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (la-in-x022a.1e100.net [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DB821F8E92 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id fe20so1053601lab.1 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=a+0j2Bk8AKmGejdQKePrJMMgizKdqDhj+3egCPMSl5I=; b=aK8q9OFrBmO4e3vUHw79AHfwI2VjKK6kgn9D1RDP8JQy/BSSQkOJ57zqSry3b3iQAr slVeMrgWu4OI5n5Xyo619+1ifJgjHDYqqr4R5QwdUoyFV8lAXE8BKiZeoIcp51Y42GtO Ov8cegi/WZ5ldh5Bf/nHPYBfkbtEWhMzu9kQF0Q98fPhxLgP7L0cPTf85QbV7eagHVOv 4cA7kY5LNl3n6QRoQeXsTWMMFMBcou6qLHmMKaPgcfswo5S++CLrG12mbLf1Y9m+phjj wcG7+smS7ecHGTPxifJ3R9rPICLT89VcRBPSlK0261YkDH+DKAcTrPY5n8ixujyUmpr1 Cj5Q== X-Received: by 10.112.14.40 with SMTP id m8mr1462082lbc.88.1361566974047; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.244] (tb62-102-145-131.cust.teknikbyran.com. [62.102.145.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pk1sm1951238lab.0.2013.02.22.13.02.52 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 13:02:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 22:02:50 +0100 From: Leif Johansson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn2ySF8RbXpneS2c4CVYhCu8OLa76R8H4IeAW2VZozUziYJbKMFQedUq7B0d91ytM5JRU1g Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 21:02:56 -0000 >> 3) the street level had few "hostiles" > point > I feel I should be incensed at having the threat-level of my Scandinavian cousins so lightly brushed aside.... feeling passed From ole@cisco.com Fri Feb 22 15:16:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760D621E808C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:16:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CfYkp-PQSR0q for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9CF921E808A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:16:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=635; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361574964; x=1362784564; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=A0akc+FvRmMamYz9pZA/glxKxQkPQKC7WhEYB4ZSGuU=; b=PPqVTzZexCpc7M8DNMNhkPL2QD1fXLEa2NDf0PROMakYZbE3/qJl8Qwv tdZEpze6odvS/BqblpbaCJVwyMrWzxUDZWgZhXr8tf58DMuAmKJjkV9Uu xsUClhSvZeTTHUHk3UswRL1GsBWT9jg/Pz8MRoiTw+nHVBW3LH5p0/F2f 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AosFAO/7J1GrRDoI/2dsb2JhbABBA4YHuzSBDBZzgiABAQQBAQE3NAsQC0YnMAYTiBENvxaNTYExEAcRgy8DiGiTRoVbhRSDKIFR X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,717,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="73072677" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Feb 2013 23:15:54 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1MNFrBL003248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:15:53 GMT Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:15:53 -0800 (PST) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Leif Johansson In-Reply-To: <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> Message-ID: References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:16:05 -0000 +1 Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj Skype: organdemo On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, Leif Johansson wrote: > > >> 3) the street level had few "hostiles" > > point > > > > I feel I should be incensed at having the threat-level of my > Scandinavian cousins > so lightly brushed aside.... > > feeling passed > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > From pwouters@redhat.com Sun Feb 24 11:30:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB2D21F90B7 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:30:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.11 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id THdqIMsjvbM8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [209.132.183.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B6B21F90B8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from int-mx12.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx12.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.25]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1OJU5ih031508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:30:16 -0500 Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (vpn-48-229.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.48.229]) by int-mx12.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1OJU2FS002210 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:30:05 -0500 Message-ID: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:30:02 -0500 From: Paul Wouters User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130110 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.25 Subject: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:30:21 -0000 For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international drivers license in Florida, http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando. "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday that, by law, the permit would be required along with the driver’s licence to rent a vehicle in Florida." Paul From phil.hunt@oracle.com Sun Feb 24 11:48:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870C621F90B9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:48:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.387, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9G54eCAlqqgT for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com (aserp1040.oracle.com [141.146.126.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568AA21F8922 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r1OJmRHs031759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:48:28 GMT Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1OJmQ7E016877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:48:27 GMT Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1OJmQ3X007026; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:48:26 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.125] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:48:26 -0800 References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B146) From: Phil Hunt Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:48:24 -0800 To: Paul Wouters X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:48:30 -0000 Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are exempt d= ue to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Florida w= on't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting the docu= ment if you can.=20 Phil Sent from my phone. On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters wrote: >=20 > For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international dri= vers license in Florida, >=20 > http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_= licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html >=20 >=20 > I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being abl= e to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando. >=20 > "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday that, b= y law, the permit would be required along with the driver=E2=80=99s licence t= o rent a vehicle in Florida." >=20 > Paul > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From phil.hunt@oracle.com Sun Feb 24 11:50:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1CB21F90B9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.360, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sPu48wXyCEiM for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDC221F8922 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r1OJodns016027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:50:39 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1OJocaU018784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:50:38 GMT Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1OJocnG003259; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:50:38 -0600 Received: from [192.168.1.125] (/174.7.250.104) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:50:38 -0800 References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-80DE27EE-4473-46EC-A0D8-331F75A45C9E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B146) From: Phil Hunt Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:50:36 -0800 To: Paul Wouters X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:50:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail-80DE27EE-4473-46EC-A0D8-331F75A45C9E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This link should be useful to non-US attendees.=20 http://www.visitflorida.com/mobile/articles/international-driving-permit-upd= ate Phil Sent from my phone. On 2013-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt wrote: > Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are exempt= due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Florida= won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting the do= cument if you can.=20 >=20 > Phil >=20 > Sent from my phone. >=20 > On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international dr= ivers license in Florida, >>=20 >> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers= _licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html >>=20 >>=20 >> I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being ab= le to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando. >>=20 >> "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday that, b= y law, the permit would be required along with the driver=E2=80=99s licence t= o rent a vehicle in Florida." >>=20 >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --Apple-Mail-80DE27EE-4473-46EC-A0D8-331F75A45C9E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This link should be useful to non-US a= ttendees. 

On 201= 3-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt <phi= l.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are e= xempt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Fl= orida won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting t= he document if you can.

Phil

Sent from my phone.

On 2= 013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters <pwouters@redhat.com> wrote:


Fo= r non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international drivers= license in Florida,
=
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/f= loridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html<= /span>


I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up no= t being able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in O= rlando.

  "A Budget customer s= ervice representative told the Star Thursday that, by law, the permit would b= e required along with the driver=E2=80=99s licence to rent a vehicle in Flor= ida."

Paul
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= --Apple-Mail-80DE27EE-4473-46EC-A0D8-331F75A45C9E-- From bob.hinden@gmail.com Sun Feb 24 11:58:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775D421F8BB5 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x6kUIzh4SqFf for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ea0-f172.google.com (mail-ea0-f172.google.com [209.85.215.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B3F21F8B8F for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ea0-f172.google.com with SMTP id f13so966682eaa.3 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=rPvkE5cwHijAD3oS7msmAk8KsLZzew5b60ykFv4GfSs=; b=LmudqbtbBr42oB8Kh0cHmbq8CtP6V7u/bqrcqrEzjY9NFLlaoMM77qb15D1pPHwjJL mQq82p5scdhl03B6WrE8Jf3MxmheUYhwWSVB19XL0q23p3xQhoua04+sJI8ZAvcXkv49 6CQR2L/LXBfjSN8VU+r7UC6Luo6IMA98WkQwwwLDvbvv9om/ZAMWR/uCU8DDUIcENjR5 xiq/yMrF49CWXU0MJE8GCAmFwx92fsdTt7PnzsO1oGRU+Hf291tY/Fbx6rUK2IK4sTHl X5UwSgwY6pH8OoJLhynzlCQKyeUP9fBXUdhq9RPEiH7PSR10E9tKKYTsln6rbcypP4+o AHdA== X-Received: by 10.14.183.67 with SMTP id p43mr31177576eem.10.1361735881826; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.23] (c-24-130-151-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [24.130.151.138]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o3sm14985866eem.15.2013.02.24.11.57.58 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:58:00 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:57:55 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1694AEF8-35F0-4CD1-84DD-B6EEB7DD59ED@gmail.com> References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> To: Phil Hunt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Wouters , Bob Hinden Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:58:03 -0000 On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: > Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are = exempt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow = up Florida won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth = getting the document if you can.=20 If renting a car, probably best to check with the rental company to see = what they will require. Bob From william.atwood@concordia.ca Sun Feb 24 11:59:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28BBA21F90E8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:59:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zKBeH+P4JzKH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.94]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380B121F8BB5 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 11:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id r1OJxn4D008530 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:59:50 -0500 Message-ID: <512A713D.1050700@concordia.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:59:57 -0500 From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2013/02/24 14:59:50 EST Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:59:53 -0000 As the law is currently written, only _US_Residents_ are exempt from the requirement to have an International Driving Permit. While the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (DHSMV) has said that they will not enforce the new law for now, and while the DHSMV has encouraged other agencies not to enforce it, it is quite clear (from the article that Paul points to) that no such exemption is being provided by certain other agencies, including some car rental places. The "expectation" is that the legislature will eventually exempt Canadians. However, this is not likely to happen before ITEF 86. So, even Canadians like myself need to be prepared with an International Driving Permit. Anyone from outside the US/Canada will _definitely_ need the International Driving Permit, now and in the future, to drive in Florida. Bill On 24/02/2013 2:30 PM, Paul Wouters wrote: > > For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international > drivers license in Florida, > > http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html > > > > I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being > able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in > Orlando. > > "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday > that, by law, the permit would be required along with the driver’s > licence to rent a vehicle in Florida." > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From lear@cisco.com Sun Feb 24 12:01:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561E721F9100 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:01:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZKWBAcd1NPBH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B980C21F90E8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:01:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8706; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361736087; x=1362945687; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=7z1H1aPh3ITuGBUztNTkX0qX4FWB2gHnlRcQvXI6HVQ=; b=B3dJdc5kcCN+VhCkMS92Jt//fK35i9oANTCh3oklsgzObpP2gJqzN2La YtmOjvzUYIB6UBpvGgSR8p1JD81FEgUJIdQwJERDlwbUEnwvkIeNeGt27 oNrQLcuPo6Hvd15T5m4TFi6Lb/uGriy8KhY1hBHb8YSAe46/TzzJqRPaF c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuANADNwKlGQ/khR/2dsb2JhbABFhk+7AYEQFnM5AoFkAQEBBAEBASBDCAoBEAsYCRYIAwICCQMCAQIBFR8RBg0BBQIBARaHeQyrC5E7jw4Hgi2BEwOWPYtRhRSDCA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,730,1355097600"; d="scan'208,217";a="80685375" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2013 20:01:26 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-94-76.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-94-76.cisco.com [10.55.94.76]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1OK1PbG007980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 20:01:26 GMT Message-ID: <512A7195.8060807@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 21:01:25 +0100 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Hunt References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090103030904070306020603" Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Wouters Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 20:01:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090103030904070306020603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Everyone, The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles web site for this is here: http://www.flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm What it says is that they are currently deferring enforcement. What it doesn't say is when they will STOP deferring enforcement. That will depend on how and when the legislature amends the statute. Since it was both easy and cheap for me to get an IDL here in Switzerland, I've done so. Eliot On 2/24/13 8:50 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: > This link should be useful to non-US attendees. > http://www.visitflorida.com/mobile/articles/international-driving-permit-update > > Phil > > Sent from my phone. > > On 2013-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt > wrote: > >> Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are >> exempt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the >> follow up Florida won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might >> be worth getting the document if you can. >> >> Phil >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >> On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters > > wrote: >> >>> >>> For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an >>> international drivers license in Florida, >>> >>> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html >>> >>> >>> I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not >>> being able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to >>> happen in Orlando. >>> >>> "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday >>> that, by law, the permit would be required along with the driver’s >>> licence to rent a vehicle in Florida." >>> >>> Paul >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --------------090103030904070306020603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Everyone,

The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles web site for this is here:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm

What it says is that they are currently deferring enforcement.  What it doesn't say is when they will  STOP deferring enforcement.  That will depend on how and when the legislature amends the statute.

Since it was both easy and cheap for me to get an IDL here in Switzerland, I've done so.

Eliot

On 2/24/13 8:50 PM, Phil Hunt wrote:
This link should be useful to non-US attendees. 

On 2013-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are exempt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Florida won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting the document if you can.

Phil

Sent from my phone.

On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters <pwouters@redhat.com> wrote:


For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international drivers license in Florida,

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html


I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando.

  "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday that, by law, the permit would be required along with the driver’s licence to rent a vehicle in Florida."

Paul
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--------------090103030904070306020603-- From rpelletier@isoc.org Sun Feb 24 12:58:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE65121F90E6 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:58:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29ItpFMiimkF for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp137.ord.emailsrvr.com (smtp137.ord.emailsrvr.com [173.203.6.137]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6611421F90CE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.relay.ord1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 02D833700C6; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:58:31 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp10.relay.ord1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: rpelletier-AT-isoc.org) with ESMTPSA id ABF2D3700AB; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:58:30 -0500 (EST) References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> <0FBDFAB4-D248-476B-A4FB-1D32D6576BC4@oracle.com> <512A7195.8060807@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <512A7195.8060807@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5C73FCD5-7169-480F-941A-D4183689298A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B146) From: Ray Pelletier Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:58:27 -0500 To: Eliot Lear Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Paul Wouters , Phil Hunt Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 20:58:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail-5C73FCD5-7169-480F-941A-D4183689298A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom Alexa Yes, and I actually called AAA last week and they called Hertz and Hertz sai= d all they need is their own drivers license. So, while this may be technica= lly true it isn't enforced Ray On Feb 24, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Everyone, >=20 > The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles web site for t= his is here: >=20 > http://www.flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm >=20 > What it says is that they are currently deferring enforcement. What it do= esn't say is when they will STOP deferring enforcement. That will depend o= n how and when the legislature amends the statute. >=20 > Since it was both easy and cheap for me to get an IDL here in Switzerland,= I've done so. >=20 > Eliot >=20 > On 2/24/13 8:50 PM, Phil Hunt wrote: >> This link should be useful to non-US attendees.=20 >> http://www.visitflorida.com/mobile/articles/international-driving-permit-= update >>=20 >> Phil >>=20 >> Sent from my phone. >>=20 >> On 2013-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt wrote: >>=20 >>> Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are exem= pt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Flori= da won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting = the document if you can.=20 >>>=20 >>> Phil >>>=20 >>> Sent from my phone. >>>=20 >>> On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters wrote: >>>=20 >>>> For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international d= rivers license in Florida, >>>> http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/02/14/floridas_international_drive= rs_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming.html >>>> I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being a= ble to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando. >>>> "A Budget customer service representative told the Star Thursday that= , by law, the permit would be required along with the driver=E2=80=99s licen= ce to rent a vehicle in Florida." >>>> Paul >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --Apple-Mail-5C73FCD5-7169-480F-941A-D4183689298A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=46rom Alexa

<= /div>
Yes, and I actually called AAA last week and they ca= lled Hertz and Hertz said all they need is their own drivers license. So, wh= ile this may be technically true it isn't enforced

Ray

On Feb 24, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Eliot Lear &l= t;lear@cisco.com> wrote:

=20 =20 =20 Everyone,

The Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles web site for this is here:

http://www.flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm

What it says is that they are currently deferring enforcement.  Wha= t it doesn't say is when they will  STOP deferring enforcement. = That will depend on how and when the legislature amends the statute.

Since it was both easy and cheap for me to get an IDL here in Switzerland, I've done so.

Eliot

On 2/24/13 8:50 PM, Phil Hunt wrote:
This link should be useful to non-US attendees. 

On 2013-02-24, at 11:48, Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com> wrote:

Apparently there was a follow up article that certain countries are exempt due to treaties that florida overlooked. According to the follow up Florida won't be enforcing the requirement. But still might be worth getting the document if you can.

Phil

Sent from my phone.

On 2013-02-24, at 11:30, Paul Wouters <pwouters@redhat.com> wrote:


For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international drivers license in Florida,

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20= 13/02/14/floridas_international_drivers_licence_rule_leaves_canadians_fuming= .html


I'd recommend against trying to skip it, as you might end up not being able to rent a car, and that's the last thing you want to happen in Orlando.

  "A Budget customer se= rvice representative told the Star Thursday that, by law, the permit would be required along with the driver=E2=80=99s licen= ce to rent a vehicle in Florida."

Paul
__________________________________= _____________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/86attendees
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees=


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8=
6attendees@ietf.org
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=20
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= --Apple-Mail-5C73FCD5-7169-480F-941A-D4183689298A-- From johnl@iecc.com Sun Feb 24 13:04:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 615D621F90DE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:04:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F5orjtAlvPdg for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D486F21F90CE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:04:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 34496 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2013 21:04:47 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2013 21:04:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=512a806e.xn--hew.k1302; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=t9W+rVeejqNlwIIIKoatH7QymjiPsVe+NFCqkAG6p18=; b=esnAkcXMceOGuglzsmWRMuqIudNdwSPMEur6IWUwb4DJLK/7NKemXmKCxNJ7hB+bAoasv+FciowiwWTI7b6IFAfy8NzpdE/wsMFOdk5dxG9h8MWhAZIkj1PryPF762PHUwoQwomNB4jB6zNcw+qmxzwhUesC9X7Snn0cEAgB7NI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=johnlevine.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=512a806e.xn--hew.k1302; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=t9W+rVeejqNlwIIIKoatH7QymjiPsVe+NFCqkAG6p18=; b=gmMuce6tj6U46Q6gNJFjl4sWC3EoxRkQXM6P6X5Qij2QBRcK5k5n+A+NPVSsR8DnVYXTg11ya4TlwbSvCQbhGhpwIfYtziMaU0iW0cha6lfNWVszlXAEFL+robKesioKdoc0zFyws28Qj2BsSZA3CzlhTjP6Dm+q3oKJtujf63M= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 24 Feb 2013 21:04:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: 86attendees@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: pwouters@redhat.com Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 21:04:51 -0000 >For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international drivers license in Florida, As others noted, the law as written does not currently exempt Canadians. The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International Driver's Permit, not license) is merely a document that contains a translation of your actual license into multiple languages including English. It is not valid without the license, and if your license already is in English, as all Canadian licences are, it's completely useless. But as anyone who's been to Florida knows, merely because something is stupid and useless does not mean that they won't enforce it zealously. Do not count on every car rental clerk and police officer in Orlando having gotten the memo that the IDP law isn't to be enforced on Canadians. Canadians get an IDP at the Canadian Auto Assn. See this link for details. http://www.caa.ca/idp/ AAA offices issue the US version on the spot if you visit in person, and I expect the CAA will, also. In other countries, it's typically provided by the analogous auto club, *not* by the government office that issued your license. R's, John From vdolmatov@gmail.com Sun Feb 24 13:12:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2002B21F87D3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.747 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.747 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7a9akZc+FZ+N for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A4921F90D0 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s4so1784865lbc.35 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=sG/amVdfzD4OoUXVcY1nSgZFlzCGKeV0MIYFC3Na9Ig=; b=NJWTu38wNHobQ7jEUJKXtsiw7QVufRIIRvXVrExKb7c71fYsoZeIb0JpiA4z5F2c7q r5HBLXafqLFGVG7UOjNZjaLw2XB1pFZ61LMQ77BefJJcxvehyQ0sS3uRrGVerlFzCm4Q rNX5d7BRHiDWRIkNTQHzkn5oajNz6WUqAOmvZ3rAZyoF5r2oGY27hTgof1amWx+s/TLr hlYX1oBlI9RjkE+BjxahTEqGPlWBLZW1OM0tZs+H0ri3iY/Rw7a6bu3HpqWWgDeiN3qF vQJ9mbJQSSnuTmMCayg+noUKhQPXhRgKMmV7eRUAkQm/j1UTmz0KzyL6XWvRlbZachpB 4Cyw== X-Received: by 10.152.148.133 with SMTP id ts5mr8008781lab.2.1361740356085; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.63.12] (broadband-37-110-88-231.nationalcablenetworks.ru. [37.110.88.231]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k15sm3373485lbd.6.2013.02.24.13.12.34 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Feb 2013 13:12:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B212022A-06D1-4F62-A3B1-2DF322D8A627"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Basil Dolmatov In-Reply-To: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 01:12:33 +0400 Message-Id: References: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, pwouters@redhat.com Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 21:12:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B212022A-06D1-4F62-A3B1-2DF322D8A627 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r 25.02.2013, =D7 1:04, "John Levine" =CE=C1=D0=C9=D3=C1= =CC(=C1): >> For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an = international drivers license in Florida, >=20 > As others noted, the law as written does not currently exempt > Canadians. >=20 > The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International Driver's > Permit, not license) is merely a document that contains a translation > of your actual license into multiple languages including English. It > is not valid without the license, and if your license already is in > English, as all Canadian licences are, it's completely useless. =20 >=20 >=20 > Canadians get an IDP at the Canadian Auto Assn. See this link for > details. =20 >=20 > http://www.caa.ca/idp/ >=20 > AAA offices issue the US version on the spot if you visit in person, > and I expect the CAA will, also. >=20 > In other countries, it's typically provided by the analogous auto > club, *not* by the government office that issued your license. JFYI, in Russia it is provided by the _government_ office. ;) dol@ --Apple-Mail=_B212022A-06D1-4F62-A3B1-2DF322D8A627 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIO2DCCBIow ggNyoAMCAQICECf06hH0eobEbp27bqkXBwcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwbzELMAkGA1UEBhMCU0Ux FDASBgNVBAoTC0FkZFRydXN0IEFCMSYwJAYDVQQLEx1BZGRUcnVzdCBFeHRlcm5hbCBUVFAgTmV0 d29yazEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQWRkVHJ1c3QgRXh0ZXJuYWwgQ0EgUm9vdDAeFw0wNTA2MDcwODA5MTBa Fw0yMDA1MzAxMDQ4MzhaMIGuMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzELMAkGA1UECBMCVVQxFzAVBgNVBAcTDlNh bHQgTGFrZSBDaXR5MR4wHAYDVQQKExVUaGUgVVNFUlRSVVNUIE5ldHdvcmsxITAfBgNVBAsTGGh0 dHA6Ly93d3cudXNlcnRydXN0LmNvbTE2MDQGA1UEAxMtVVROLVVTRVJGaXJzdC1DbGllbnQgQXV0 aGVudGljYXRpb24gYW5kIEVtYWlsMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAsjmF pPJ9q0E7YkY3rs3BYHW8OWX5ShpHornMSMxqmNVNNRm5pELlzkniii8efNIxB8dOtINknS4p1aJk 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86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFAE021F91DB for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xz5k3mACqKCa for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AC921F915D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from porto.nomis80.org (85-169-43-76.rev.numericable.fr [85.169.43.76]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4297141490 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 01:46:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:46:28 +0100 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130219 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 06:47:00 -0000 Le 2013-02-24 22:04, John Levine a écrit : > The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International Driver's > Permit, not license) is merely a document that contains a translation > of your actual license into multiple languages including English. It > is not valid without the license, and if your license already is in > English, as all Canadian licences are, it's completely useless. Québec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it say "Canada". It's as if Québec was (already) its own country. I've had had to explain this quite a few times in different countries, to rental agencies as well as to police. ;) Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From john+ietf@jck.com Sun Feb 24 23:05:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746BD21F91E3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:05:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PjMZOin9GRVJ for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5D021F91F4 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2013 23:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([::1]) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U9s7S-0002Dj-Pw; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:05:02 -0500 X-Vipre-Scanned: 026A2349002C31026A2496-TDI Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 02:05:02 -0500 From: John C Klensin To: Simon Perreault , 86attendees@ietf.org Message-ID: <8D733028422F1AE28C025ED2@[192.168.1.128]> In-Reply-To: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> References: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:05:08 -0000 --On Monday, February 25, 2013 07:46 +0100 Simon Perreault wrote: > Le 2013-02-24 22:04, John Levine a =C3=A9crit : >> The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International >> Driver's Permit, not license) is merely a document that >> contains a translation of your actual license into multiple >> languages including English. It is not valid without the >> license, and if your license already is in English, as all >> Canadian licences are, it's completely useless. >=20 > Qu=C3=A9bec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it = say > "Canada". It's as if Qu=C3=A9bec was (already) its own = country. > I've had had to explain this quite a few times in different > countries, to rental agencies as well as to police. ;) Of course, local idiosyncrasies like that are exactly the reason the IDP came into being. I have no idea what is done in Canada (or Quebec) but the intent is that the permit contains any needed explanation of peculiar arrangements in several languages and on an official-looking formal document. I have always carried one when traveling in countries other than my own, at least unless I'm _very_ sure of their policies (as I am in Canada). I've almost never needed to actually use it, but they save considerable time in those rare situations when there is a dispute about, e.g., whether a license is actually a license. john From johnl@iecc.com Mon Feb 25 14:58:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460DB21E8128 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:58:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.974 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.974 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gv9COk19EgmL for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4786721E80FE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 14:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 94442 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2013 22:58:43 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2013 22:58:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=512beca3.xn--yuvv84g.k1302; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=FCPnM5VYTyRFbp6LTJ7uB/ilIX89e0cAXHulJlXdwQc=; b=CM+18eHVaLn11vg/Gme8IhJegqYfso9hK6IlLr8p8VwTJF/LFGYbjwqUFURBVweET7j1yBU42cc1lZrn2r6t1UbkIfTnVf7YWqduPl/yfD4GyYFwLwJ5FaNgpwy9Gzq7RkdGP7gwVTWvttbcd4pE2D6apiqCt9YQoqybRaDg1Mc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=johnlevine.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=512beca3.xn--yuvv84g.k1302; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=FCPnM5VYTyRFbp6LTJ7uB/ilIX89e0cAXHulJlXdwQc=; b=uWgXp4SnpO3uirHCTRuL+7VjprTPYri7yKTdqVS6/LSdnG5EjbnCFjygMg/irRrBp2mRBaomxH8100VS0IYzVzDL/sA5YJjfblFc27SZDumLcDohszL4AhPOyJ53WOl/b/KTQN2J0gyQgyctzkksxfTwpojoEypfcfA5YHz9bkg= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 25 Feb 2013 22:58:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: 86attendees@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:58:45 -0000 >Québec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it say "Canada". True, I forgot that. On the other hand, any rental place or cop in Orlando who's never seen a Québec license must be really, really, new. R's, John PS: Do any drivers' licenses in the US say United States? Don't think so. From brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com Mon Feb 25 16:15:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1835021E8181 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.171 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.171 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.428, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jo6o5AnOxgJC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ia0-x236.google.com (mail-ia0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CFAF21E8120 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ia0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k38so2960523iah.41 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+EozxFNTsXM4dWF4ibKjHYk7PaC1HXpuXbOg/IiIGrM=; b=DOm3OrADIEWXGpfim5ie2CXMwWfouh57++4ewXu4lPl1GM726oxI/Cd/2AwE4dJQAN aE/3D5oKaxBspFnM5x9hGWqJMEbMmBXQJbYHBIziukcIi/7q8+2yafoeaGOOvRyvVZiu 7YMPHLscAtHhQGXPteYW5DosgkP/CmVhtGpzEeCp8GJbSHBCp5kdg/StN6yZoixyUuAe rDxqoZqTW++GLiJ4VBCJ8p7xym0ectzRDYSuI0EC5ONEAyCAUrRB0BD2ALl/lnWCBkMm Eu7YMX0QruOig9OJxPMgYH7zCMqTKnIVU+W1TdwH6ukz1YiEjYyFAjz0Od/khba76esG yEQQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.180.165 with SMTP id dp5mr4401263igc.23.1361837720107; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.56.9 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:15:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:15:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: Brian Dickson To: John Levine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340a2b8c80a604d6958d5f Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:15:21 -0000 --14dae9340a2b8c80a604d6958d5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". Of course, even if Canadian provinces' licenses had the ISO country code on them, they (within the US border at least) might appear ambiguous: "CA" could mean Canada, or California. (It really doesn't help that there is an Ontario, California: Ontario, CA =3D=3D still ambiguous.) Brian P.S. FYI - Technically, any Visa holder needs to CARRY their passport at all times, if they are within 100 miles of the US border / international waters. Which I believe includes all of Florida. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:58 PM, John Levine wrote: > >Qu=E9bec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it say "Canada". > > True, I forgot that. On the other hand, any rental place or cop in > Orlando who's never seen a Qu=E9bec license must be really, really, new. > > R's, > John > > PS: Do any drivers' licenses in the US say United States? Don't think > so. > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > --14dae9340a2b8c80a604d6958d5f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA".
Of course, even if Canadian provinces' licenses had the IS= O country code on them,
they (within the US border at least) migh= t appear ambiguous:
"CA" could mean Canada, or California.
(It really = doesn't help that there is an Ontario, California: Ontario, CA =3D=3D s= till ambiguous.)

Brian

P.= S. FYI - Technically, any Visa holder needs to CARRY their passport at all = times,
if they are within 100 miles of the US border / international waters.<= /div>
Which I believe includes all of Florida.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:58 PM, John Levine &l= t;ietf@johnlevine.= com> wrote:
>Qu=E9bec licenses are = in French only and nowhere does it say "Canada".

True, I forgot that. =A0On the other hand, any rental place or cop in=
Orlando who's never seen a Qu=E9bec license must be really, really, new= .

R's,
John

PS: Do any drivers' licenses in the US say United States? =A0Don't = think
so.

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--14dae9340a2b8c80a604d6958d5f-- From evyncke@cisco.com Mon Feb 25 20:55:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EECC621E8186 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:55:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.374 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.374 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-4VInH4bxzE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373E721E8181 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:55:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1776; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361854500; x=1363064100; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=LFiTUf64itXO94cfk7JmDFqntW+YJXTMsSmPeDjTLwA=; b=CWQaE3PZ6MUP+e0i2qKlpZnxIsaLWstvWZ+nWE73v5R2m1DUPoMdk1Qw /6Lx2JikSbSNFLZ4jocI+YOeQFCu1Rdls837HAQg7MK77Ne/ZtB4BAXGX pacszuKXq1QZnIpK4Gl/kMyzuvyA9kcpnJXfFsF3unTNsyaHalXrbyujr w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAMw+LFGtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABFwWOBAxZzgh8BAQEEAQEBYwEHCxACAQgYHREnCyUCBA4FiBMMr0w9kAQEjTSBJzMHgl9hA4gzjgqQZYJ6DQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,737,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="181170071" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2013 04:54:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1Q4sxh2022064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 04:54:59 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.155]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 22:54:59 -0600 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: John C Klensin Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses Thread-Index: AQHOEtKaCyHzssrsrUqHt63nYiQD55iKhpwAgAAFMACAAQlp0g== Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 04:54:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca>, <8D733028422F1AE28C025ED2@[192.168.1.128]> In-Reply-To: <8D733028422F1AE28C025ED2@[192.168.1.128]> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Simon Perreault , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 04:55:01 -0000 It also served as a backup copy... Le 25 f=E9vr. 2013 =E0 02:05, "John C Klensin" a =E9cri= t : >=20 >=20 > --On Monday, February 25, 2013 07:46 +0100 Simon Perreault > wrote: >=20 >> Le 2013-02-24 22:04, John Levine a =E9crit : >>> The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International >>> Driver's Permit, not license) is merely a document that >>> contains a translation of your actual license into multiple >>> languages including English. It is not valid without the >>> license, and if your license already is in English, as all >>> Canadian licences are, it's completely useless. >>=20 >> Qu=E9bec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it say >> "Canada". It's as if Qu=E9bec was (already) its own country. >> I've had had to explain this quite a few times in different >> countries, to rental agencies as well as to police. ;) >=20 > Of course, local idiosyncrasies like that are exactly the reason > the IDP came into being. I have no idea what is done in Canada > (or Quebec) but the intent is that the permit contains any > needed explanation of peculiar arrangements in several languages > and on an official-looking formal document. I have always > carried one when traveling in countries other than my own, at > least unless I'm _very_ sure of their policies (as I am in > Canada). I've almost never needed to actually use it, but they > save considerable time in those rare situations when there is a > dispute about, e.g., whether a license is actually a license. >=20 > john >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Tue Feb 26 00:51:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708CF21F89AE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:51:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.256 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.256 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SYao5nj6p3ZA for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B892021F85FC for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:50:59 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-75-512c77725a3b Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2D.1D.19728.2777C215; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:50:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.82]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:50:58 +0100 From: Christer Holmberg To: John Levine , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses Thread-Index: AQHOEtKZzJkbtdw9CkeLI8LDJNPj75iL1nsQ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:50:58 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B107C78@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <512A6A3A.5030201@redhat.com> <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20130224210423.14100.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW5RuU6gwYV2a4tT0/tZLOZMq7c4 ue8ekwOzx5IlP5k8es+sZPR4v+8qWwBzFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAlfGi8ZLrAVP+CpetN5gamBs 5eli5OSQEDCRmPbsJyuELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgUOMEouvrmSBcBYzSjw7som5i5GDg03AQqL7 nzZIg4hAmMT3AzvAmpkF9CXu3lzAAlIiLBAkseaPK0RJsETzqwtsELaRRHfDOjCbRUBVom3H ZDCbV8Bb4s71yywgthBQ66f1V8FGcgoYS5xYNB3MZgS67fupNUwQq8Qlbj2ZzwRxs4DEkj3n mSFsUYmXj/9B/aIocXX6cqh6HYkFuz+xQdjaEssWvmaG2CsocXLmE5YJjGKzkIydhaRlFpKW WUhaFjCyrGJkz03MzEkvN9rECIyZg1t+q+5gvHNO5BCjNAeLkjhvuOuFACGB9MSS1OzU1ILU ovii0pzU4kOMTBycUg2My6N/iEedrVfUu/D0MRdrfdC59Q1NP3W+/y56fYdnlcGi8PpKk8PP p3RcVU9efV/6stz6Ld/bU4QuvZoqmmp/dnOKrEf8fLfr226/UnCuvnC5OWnHKuawa88XK5md b1k1xf97wpwaJb3Qy4+YT1fOSk3Y07jys7RLu6Hpiii21fsqa3ZfiqhaqMRSnJFoqMVcVJwI ABf289tnAgAA Cc: "pwouters@redhat.com" Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 08:51:01 -0000 Hi, Note that, at least in Finland, one can apply for two different "versions" = of the IDP - one that is valid for 1 year, and one that is valid for 3 year= s. Only the 1 year one is accepted in Florida. Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of John Levine Sent: 24. helmikuuta 2013 23:04 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Cc: pwouters@redhat.com Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers lic= enses >For non-US/non-Canadian, please be aware you now need an international=20 >drivers license in Florida, As others noted, the law as written does not currently exempt Canadians. The law is totally stupid, because an IDP (International Driver's Permit, n= ot license) is merely a document that contains a translation of your actual= license into multiple languages including English. It is not valid withou= t the license, and if your license already is in English, as all Canadian l= icences are, it's completely useless. =20 But as anyone who's been to Florida knows, merely because something is stup= id and useless does not mean that they won't enforce it zealously. Do not count on every car rental clerk and police officer in Orlando having= gotten the memo that the IDP law isn't to be enforced on Canadians. Canadians get an IDP at the Canadian Auto Assn. See this link for details.= =20 http://www.caa.ca/idp/ AAA offices issue the US version on the spot if you visit in person, and I = expect the CAA will, also. In other countries, it's typically provided by the analogous auto club, *no= t* by the government office that issued your license. R's, John _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From wjhns1@hardakers.net Tue Feb 26 09:11:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BADA21F8A35 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:11:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cb5wc1mRLM+M for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f00:187::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D57021F8A08 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f00:187:f490:4a35:8a5f:b92f]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8F190243E9; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:11:17 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Brian Dickson References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:11:17 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Brian Dickson's message of "Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:15:19 -0500") Message-ID: <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, John Levine , simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:11:22 -0000 Brian Dickson writes: > My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". ... > "CA" could mean Canada, or California. My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters (followed by "USA" in very small letters). -- Wes Hardaker SPARTA, Inc. From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Tue Feb 26 09:41:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5AE421F8700 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 86j2tgRjvLwH for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f175.google.com (mail-ve0-f175.google.com [209.85.128.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BF021F86FB for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f175.google.com with SMTP id cy12so3966799veb.34 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jdq4d3skaBuo60o2gkF+C4EjNQ5oOEuvWiqkTjBRAsw=; b=jMGq0LnxAUu1SqsI2cfgc8BD4AKkjtp9/U8AmRhDT4JkbFxFm98B5y0MtMbeO/Jybf bMFFUWEa8ogzx9jtfMwVFeHx9sfpOhChbL4q5HVVD1tm7yooiQmXCDI0BmvYQpa3Ht0N 2v0UsSc8TW4sNr54lx0mvNYKNEUD6g0+Q+7JXBrsXlXMnCl/Thxg/A709VrthAf/KV1z L9RGep0lmBoxjodKDCljNLvg98DNlSpkx7YWg8kRo7JuWcVCvb6sAbIdjtCEfXmi5mxd ABzhcH+PxZ/lzr452IXCgndvNKkEYIq8FO7prNjwfKVfUPrlAjgq7EnG8RRGuL9F+G8q +/YA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.147.69 with SMTP id ti5mr12474780veb.32.1361900509640; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:41:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:41:49 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Wes Hardaker Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b677b7e18f27e04d6a42c00 Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, John Levine , Brian Dickson , simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:41:50 -0000 --047d7b677b7e18f27e04d6a42c00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 No mention of USA on my license but everyone knows that Texas is it's own country ;) On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Wes Hardaker wrote: > Brian Dickson writes: > > > My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". > ... > > "CA" could mean Canada, or California. > > My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters > (followed by "USA" in very small letters). > -- > Wes Hardaker > SPARTA, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > --047d7b677b7e18f27e04d6a42c00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No mention of USA on my license but everyone knows that Texas is it's o= wn country ;)=A0

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at = 11:11 AM, Wes Hardaker <wjhns1@hardakers.net> wrote:
Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> writes:

> My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". ...
> "CA" could mean Canada, or California.

My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters=
(followed by "USA" in very small letters).
--
Wes Hardaker
SPARTA, Inc.
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--047d7b677b7e18f27e04d6a42c00-- From pthaler@broadcom.com Tue Feb 26 10:07:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF5E21F8A8E for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:07:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.71 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.71 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.889, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Us4CM0avhF3w for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms3.broadcom.com (mms3.broadcom.com [216.31.210.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BEB21F891D for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms3.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:01:49 -0800 X-Server-Uuid: B86B6450-0931-4310-942E-F00ED04CA7AF Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:06:39 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:06:27 -0800 From: "Pat Thaler" To: "Wes Hardaker" , "Brian Dickson" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses Thread-Index: AQHOEsVnFh51Vbm10UmAe5kaPCDwzpiKBZyAgACiogCAAQ+JAIAAFYKAgACV0n+AAA7jEA== Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> In-Reply-To: <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D3227063P43191169-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, John Levine , "simon.perreault@viagenie.ca" Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:07:46 -0000 That's odd. My California license says CALIFORNIA at the top in big letters= with a DMV logo on either side of it and doesn't say USA. Mine was issued = in 2009 - I wonder if the next one will say USA. -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Wes Hardaker Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:11 AM To: Brian Dickson Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; John Levine; simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers lic= enses Brian Dickson writes: > My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". ... > "CA" could mean Canada, or California. My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters (followed by "USA" in very small letters). --=20 Wes Hardaker SPARTA, Inc. _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From pwouters@redhat.com Tue Feb 26 10:18:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B2421F87AD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.745, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id caJLoXl-9Gkb for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:18:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [209.132.183.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F30F21F8793 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:18:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1QIIN2Q014426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:18:23 -0500 Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (vpn-48-229.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.48.229]) by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r1QIINke016130 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:18:22 -0500 From: Paul Wouters User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130219 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.23 Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:18:27 -0000 On 02/26/2013 01:06 PM, Pat Thaler wrote: Clearly, Florida should demand international drivers licenses for people from California..... > That's odd. My California license says CALIFORNIA at the top in big letters with a DMV logo on either side of it and doesn't say USA. Mine was issued in 2009 - I wonder if the next one will say USA. > > -----Original Message----- > From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wes Hardaker > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:11 AM > To: Brian Dickson > Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; John Levine; simon.perreault@viagenie.ca > Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses > > Brian Dickson writes: > >> My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". > ... >> "CA" could mean Canada, or California. > > My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters > (followed by "USA" in very small letters). > From warren@kumari.net Tue Feb 26 10:50:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E4A21F89E1 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:50:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80eAVohw+-do for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (smtp1.kumari.net [204.194.22.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B06D21F89DA for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.145] (unknown [66.84.81.126]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22FD51B417F7; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:50:06 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:50:05 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> To: Brian Dickson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: John Levine , simon.perreault@viagenie.ca, Warren Kumari , 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:50:07 -0000 On Feb 25, 2013, at 7:15 PM, Brian Dickson = wrote: > My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". I guess yours is a newer one, mine was issued in 2007 and just says = Virginia, no USA. W >=20 > Of course, even if Canadian provinces' licenses had the ISO country = code on them, > they (within the US border at least) might appear ambiguous: > "CA" could mean Canada, or California. > (It really doesn't help that there is an Ontario, California: Ontario, = CA =3D=3D still ambiguous.) >=20 > Brian >=20 > P.S. FYI - Technically, any Visa holder needs to CARRY their passport = at all times, > if they are within 100 miles of the US border / international waters. > Which I believe includes all of Florida. >=20 > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:58 PM, John Levine = wrote: > >Qu=E9bec licenses are in French only and nowhere does it say = "Canada". >=20 > True, I forgot that. On the other hand, any rental place or cop in > Orlando who's never seen a Qu=E9bec license must be really, really, = new. >=20 > R's, > John >=20 > PS: Do any drivers' licenses in the US say United States? Don't think > so. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --=20 "Does Emacs have the Buddha nature? Why not? It has bloody well = everything else..." From zhao.yi@huawei.com Tue Feb 26 11:05:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F2621F882E for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x9KjYNNunym4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7457721F8883 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AOU99625; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:05:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:04:45 +0000 Received: from DFWEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.131) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:05:39 +0000 Received: from DFWEML512-MBB.china.huawei.com ([169.254.14.220]) by dfweml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.131]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:05:36 -0800 From: Zhaoyi To: Mary Barnes , Wes Hardaker Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses Thread-Index: AQHOFERJfCIveY4ONkGjKWLCGALJuZiM7q+A//+QnhA= Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:05:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.60] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BC994C4F6EB4B34BAFE429BF641025FD16EC7A01dfweml512mbbchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, John Levine , Brian Dickson , "simon.perreault@viagenie.ca" Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:05:52 -0000 --_000_BC994C4F6EB4B34BAFE429BF641025FD16EC7A01dfweml512mbbchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My Texas DL shows USA followed by TX (the same font size) at right top corn= er. Not sure it is a new or old version. From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Mary Barnes Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:42 AM To: Wes Hardaker Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; John Levine; Brian Dickson; simon.perreault@viage= nie.ca Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers lic= enses No mention of USA on my license but everyone knows that Texas is it's own c= ountry ;) On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Wes Hardaker > wrote: Brian Dickson > writes: > My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". ... > "CA" could mean Canada, or California. My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters (followed by "USA" in very small letters). -- Wes Hardaker SPARTA, Inc. _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --_000_BC994C4F6EB4B34BAFE429BF641025FD16EC7A01dfweml512mbbchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My Texas DL shows USA fol= lowed by TX (the same font size) at right top corner. Not sure it is a new = or old version.

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: 86attend= ees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mary Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 11:42 AM
To: Wes Hardaker
Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; John Levine; Brian Dickson; simon.perreaul= t@viagenie.ca
Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international driv= ers licenses

 

No mention of USA on = my license but everyone knows that Texas is it's own country ;) <= /o:p>

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Wes Hardaker <<= a href=3D"mailto:wjhns1@hardakers.net" target=3D"_blank">wjhns1@hardakers.n= et> wrote:

Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com> writes:

> My Virginia DL has in faint letters at the top, "VA, USA". ...
> "CA" could mean Canada, or California.

My California license says "CALIFORNIA" at the top in big letters=
(followed by "USA" in very small letters).
--
Wes Hardaker
SPARTA, Inc.
_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attende= es

 

--_000_BC994C4F6EB4B34BAFE429BF641025FD16EC7A01dfweml512mbbchi_-- From ole@cisco.com Tue Feb 26 12:31:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1438121F86CC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:31:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eaBL1R2IVFuD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-3.cisco.com (ams-iport-3.cisco.com [144.254.224.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE6121F860A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:31:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=307; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361910664; x=1363120264; h=date:from:reply-to:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id: references:mime-version; bh=qmNbTMmTONpplVJUje0+IBg+mJ5dK1Q3Wc5dpbjVnXo=; b=H0GiSd6osKZM0fLQEA4YGbD2Kp61zMOoNWvghvWEH5pS+YAGqw2OrWlk PECo7C8D7m8A9hJ0EJkvIfw6OPkUBAfwMn6vdpNb03iC+A9D/p4O/W78g tJrXCWKLCcYUv1T4f1QCx7kzXZZ/zj8xQufpqzHERPC8WdqeANn+vT/qf 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhYFAIIYLVGQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABFgzi7W4JifxZzgh8BAQEDATo/BQsLDgouVwaIIAawDJAQjxQHg0ADiGqTTIpygyk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,742,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="12075949" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2013 20:31:03 +0000 Received: from [10.27.1.132] (sjc-ole-8913.cisco.com [10.27.1.132]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1QKV0dl027508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:31:02 GMT Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:31:00 -0800 (PST) From: Ole Jacobsen To: Paul Wouters In-Reply-To: <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> Message-ID: References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (OSX 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ole Jacobsen List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:31:05 -0000 On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Paul Wouters wrote: > On 02/26/2013 01:06 PM, Pat Thaler wrote: > > Clearly, Florida should demand international drivers licenses for people from > California..... > We don't have drivers (or driver's) licences in California. We have (oddly) Driver Licences. Ole From carlos@lacnic.net Tue Feb 26 12:33:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A16E21F842F for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:33:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F+6LqlBs+5aT for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAFB21F8523 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from europa.local (unknown [200.7.85.163]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E8F308427; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:33:09 -0200 (UYST) Message-ID: <512D1C0A.70904@lacnic.net> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:33:14 -0200 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Paul Wouters Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:33:26 -0000 I rented a car last Sunday in Miami, no need for an intl' license. Is this changing in two weeks ? For reference, I used Budget directly out of MIA. regards Carlos On 2/26/13 6:31 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Feb 2013, Paul Wouters wrote: > >> On 02/26/2013 01:06 PM, Pat Thaler wrote: >> >> Clearly, Florida should demand international drivers licenses for people from >> California..... >> > We don't have drivers (or driver's) licences in California. We have > (oddly) Driver Licences. > > Ole > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From lear@cisco.com Tue Feb 26 12:51:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3233621F8842 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oLFeUaY-2i9G for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-4.cisco.com (ams-iport-4.cisco.com [144.254.224.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 313B921F882A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=315; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361911868; x=1363121468; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Mf5QudFcuG9Lxsl6W6FoyoEbm6RCBmVFv7tFLpOgqTU=; b=SiyNFRDm5igziphJ+AYIGr61EKsllXsLaGc77bHmwSADj9N+n2wRI/S1 wmzM1aURIKOy0v1HEhQImgPdHvZ+eMeZ2f9LtnAWzH22cuvl24S0r5flF q0KKlVJ1Z4fQpAxOcXMXyPOBaraMSm/Xxj5IJprebu/b5wKJ8knp2EM6G Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,743,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="12088623" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2013 20:51:07 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-95-74.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-95-74.cisco.com [10.55.95.74]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1QKp6Mu010202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:51:06 GMT Message-ID: <512D203A.9050805@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:51:06 +0100 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Carlos M. Martinez" References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> <512D1C0A.70904@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <512D1C0A.70904@lacnic.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Paul Wouters , Ole Jacobsen Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:51:09 -0000 The rule is currently suspended. See http://flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm. Eliot On 2/26/13 9:33 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > I rented a car last Sunday in Miami, no need for an intl' license. Is > this changing in two weeks ? > > For reference, I used Budget directly out of MIA. > > regards > > Carlos > From lear@cisco.com Tue Feb 26 12:51:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690C421F8884 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z93hVNnn+D68 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51F621F8842 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:51:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=141; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1361911903; x=1363121503; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g9ethbZeO8ARAcmU5/Oy18+6d9bdtkS7kSnBfqAH208=; b=cqOfvby9s8MrnNYmGeZDh654rVmHa+UvORtujDU9artw2j72w1Z78apw gc7OCl8OX2+6RuRJHpo1pjlJ6cl6Oo241lkPXdnPcwlyNmd4GdkG217u7 ZYvDwSZp/YYVnawmziGWAvWgY9bDEh8G6xVppNZhfoqGn03CyHxfkgHV5 k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,743,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="150960821" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2013 20:51:42 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-55-95-74.cisco.com (dhcp-10-55-95-74.cisco.com [10.55.95.74]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r1QKpf4K032451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:51:41 GMT Message-ID: <512D205D.1020501@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:51:41 +0100 From: Eliot Lear User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eliot Lear References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> <512CFC6E.2080008@redhat.com> <512D1C0A.70904@lacnic.net> <512D203A.9050805@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <512D203A.9050805@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Ole Jacobsen , Paul Wouters , "Carlos M. Martinez" Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:51:45 -0000 Excuse me: On 2/26/13 9:51 PM, Eliot Lear wrote: > *ENFORCEMENT* of the rule is currently suspended. See http://flhsmv.gov/IDP.htm. > From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Feb 27 04:31:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F4221F856D; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:31:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M+tlN0XCPNmo; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8560921F854C; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1RCVjGG007506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:31:45 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r1RCVhO5024310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:31:45 +0100 Received: from DEMUHTC013.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.44) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.328.9; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:31:42 +0100 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.216]) by DEMUHTC013.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.44]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:31:42 +0100 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: ext Tony Finch , "Paul E. Jones" Thread-Topic: Internet Draft Final Submission Cut-Off Today Thread-Index: AQHOFOS6eX1/rBeGokWQ1B/nUNzRqJiNorMA Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:31:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20130225170532.25599.13118.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <201302260047.r1Q0l2Im030997@rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com> <512C06EC.8050408@stpeter.im> <201302260058.r1Q0wBlI032453@rcdn-core-2.cisco.com> <201302261901.r1QJ17ZL2693351@shell01.TheWorld.com> <037501ce1470$2ed50c50$8c7f24f0$@packetizer.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 933 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1361968305-0000547A-E5CA6295/0-0/0-0 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [86attendees] Internet Draft Final Submission Cut-Off Today X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:31:56 -0000 Do not worry that much and use:=20 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=3D3&day=3D11&y= ear=3D2013&p1=3D224&p2=3D64&p3=3D43&p4=3D37&p5=3D33&iv=3D0=20 Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of e= xt Tony > Finch > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:19 PM > To: Paul E. Jones > Cc: ietf@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Internet Draft Final Submission Cut-Off Today >=20 > Paul E. Jones wrote: > > > > Seriously, what the heck is 24:00? >=20 > See http://dotat.at/tmp/ISO_8601-2004_E.pdf section 4.2.3 "midnight" >=20 > Tony. > -- > f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ > Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at fir= st. > Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or g= ood, > occasionally poor at first. From dhc@dcrocker.net Wed Feb 27 06:39:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A95921F8563 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:39:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ULnQNcbW1Jzl for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BE521F8578 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.66] (76-218-9-215.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.9.215]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r1REcptv009053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:38:51 -0800 Message-ID: <512E1A76.9030900@dcrocker.net> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:38:46 -0800 From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mary Barnes References: <512B08C4.6080603@viagenie.ca> <20130225225820.26639.qmail@joyce.lan> <0lfw0jq9u2.fsf@wjh.hardakers.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 06:38:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Florida laws: get your international drivers licenses X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:39:08 -0000 On 2/26/2013 9:41 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > No mention of USA on my license but everyone knows that Texas is it's > own country ;) I went to high school in Texas and can't figure out why you added the smiley... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From robby.simpson@ge.com Wed Feb 27 08:12:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE33221F877A for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:12:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lNLqBJi8-hoG for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod5og108.obsmtp.com (exprod5og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.0.186]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7065A21F875C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpmlip11.e2k.ad.ge.com ([165.156.5.1]) (using TLSv1) by exprod5ob108.postini.com ([64.18.4.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUS4wXuiT9WXmsX5JEcWQvh6Z2bNSMoGp@postini.com; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:12:15 PST Received: from unknown (HELO cinmlef09.e2k.ad.ge.com) ([3.159.213.56]) by alpmlip11.e2k.ad.ge.com with ESMTP; 27 Feb 2013 11:12:09 -0500 Received: from alpmlef03.e2k.ad.ge.com ([3.159.18.12]) by cinmlef09.e2k.ad.ge.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:12:09 -0500 Received: from CINMLCH02.e2k.ad.ge.com ([3.159.212.51]) by alpmlef03.e2k.ad.ge.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:12:06 -0500 Received: from CINMBCNA01.e2k.ad.ge.com (3.159.212.55) by CINMLCH02.e2k.ad.ge.com (3.159.212.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:12:02 -0500 Received: from CINMBCNA02.e2k.ad.ge.com ([169.254.2.118]) by CINMBCNA01.e2k.ad.ge.com ([169.254.1.166]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Wed, 27 Feb 2013 11:12:02 -0500 From: "Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)" To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: Daylight Saving Time Thread-Index: AQHOFQUthp4zF+osBkGcJlec9B+yLA== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.1.130117 x-originating-ip: [3.159.212.192] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <480770A63AE9444198A08EA8431AE873@mail.ad.ge.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2013 16:12:06.0510 (UTC) FILETIME=[3006E0E0:01CE1505] Subject: [86attendees] Daylight Saving Time X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:12:17 -0000 Hi All, Just in case anyone is unaware, daylight saving time begins for Orlando Sunday, March 10 at 2:00am local time. We will be "springing forward" (moving ahead by one hour). http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=3D867 HTH, Robby From jari.arkko@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 02:53:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031DD21F8AC3 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:53:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwEU56LWXUxs for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13C3E21F8B96 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 02:53:32 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-6b-512f371f48a6 Received: from esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DA.DB.19728.F173F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:53:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:53:19 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4A32508; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBF5545CD; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:17 +0200 (EET) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7F554327; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:15 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:18 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <766C84D9-CD38-4030-8BA2-1166D5E33AB8@ericsson.com> References: <07F7D7DED63154409F13298786A2ADC904C8D5B4@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B10458C@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> To: Yaakov Stein X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6CuX6gQf8xTotT0/tZLD50/WB1 YPJYsuQnk8ektWkBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGdenbmApuChcMfN8eQPjNf4uRk4OCQETiatf u5ggbDGJC/fWs4HYQgInGSUOTOfpYuQCsjcwSjRsOswM4exilJh4tIERwlnLKLHm7C0WCGcu o8T5s5+YQfqZBXQkFuz+BDSLg4NXQE9iVS9YWFjAVGLWna+sIDabgJbExuULwNZxAp0xd8lt sBoWAVWJBXcbwVqZBSQkTl1hhZioLbFs4WuwEl4Be4lDO08wQaxdySTR/vg/I0hCREBZ4k3n P1aId2QlVkzthXpNTeLquU3MEK+pSNz6e5ZtAqPoLCSXzkK4dBaSdQsYmVcxsucmZuaklxtt YgQG/MEtv1V3MN45J3KIUZqDRUmcN9z1QoCQQHpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYOTqkGxubG TzzPvbm/3O9MMLnInVyU1vZilZPNy/ePWtbKV589bK/D+6FlxbWwr32FOslHWC4onf8s+CqP 492djXyd2856u3eX/ApMOBjAc/RuTh3/w4ylG7qm6HqceDf5UPvniT+6Vh26faia+2SI1NH6 5F+/Wc+eetNwk0+iZ9HfrxOPqtT//sw5LVuJpTgj0VCLuag4EQACuOgyRgIAAA== Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] venues and personal safety X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:53:49 -0000 On a global scale, the IETF has been to very, very safe locations. There = are areas in the world where safety is a significant concern for all = travellers. Think armed guards and the like. It is possible that as = Internet technologists become an even more international group (as I = hope), we will face more questions about safety in future meeting = locations. If we ever go to Finland, stay away from the main railway = station at night, and never argue with the drunken people in the queue = for a hot dog stand. Even if their views about communications protocols = might be flawed. But back to serious for a moment. All locations have some issues, I'd = not rely on nothing ever been stolen from your room, I'd be wary of pick = pockets in most locations, and there's usually that bad spot you want to = avoid. Even in Helsinki. Strangely enough, while I'm usually in the "why = worry" mode, the only place I ever felt uncomfortable was Atlanta. Not = sure if it was the homeless who actually followed you unlike in most = other places, or if I was just being too sensitive to people saying that = we shouldn't be walking around. Definitely the latter.=20 The pickpocket danger could be viewed as a cost of doing business. But I = think it is the more serious safety concerns that we should care more = about. I don't want Mary to repeat her scary experience. I don't want = anyone to get actually physically assaulted or robbed. Or face serious = local health hazards, or be exposed to unreasonable traffic safety = situations.=20 Of course, we can't prevent all bad things from ever happening. The IETF = will continue to circle the globe, be exposed to some new places, and = expect to conduct our business in the normal way in any location. But = there are a few things we can do. The IAOC and meeting planners have had = and will have safety in their mind when deciding locations. Of course. = Big city central location is often (but not necessarily always) good = there too. Some cities and countries are unfortunately a no go. And we = as attendees and various groups can do our part as well. When you plan a = dinner out somewhere further away, arrange for the safe return of all = the participants. Even if it takes a detour on that taxi to drop that = one person off in another hotel. Look around if there's someone who = needs company to return from the social events. Gather a group in the = meeting wiki if it would otherwise be difficult. Jari From balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 05:41:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8E021F8A40 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 05:41:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vwc3u4Y++SEx for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 05:41:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E94A21F8A5A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 05:41:34 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-b0-512f5e2eb6e5 Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 74.AC.19728.E2E5F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:39:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.198.29] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:39:58 +0100 Message-ID: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:39:57 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrKJMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW5vnH6gQfsTE4tT0/tZHBg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV0f2qg6XgKnPF9+kd7A2M55i6GDk5JARMJN49bWGGsMUkLtxb z9bFyMUhJHCSUeJAw0N2kISQwBpGiVe7Q0FsXgFtiQd/F7OC2CwCqhLnNzSC1bAJGElM7T/P 0sXIwSEqECVxZZ8lRLmgxMmZT1hAbBEBCYlVr+aB7RIWkJP4vOogmM0sYCtxYc51FghbXmL7 2znMEGs1JB5e+Ms6gZFvFpJRs5C0zELSsoCReRUje25iZk56udEmRmDQHNzyW3UH451zIocY pTlYlMR5w10vBAgJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpg3NCR6/d40nKNFbd/Pi4sf/aa TcjaU2OdhWm3OE9m3yT2ryV7lr82OfDg8femL2uCrurYh22bf+GKaOWfXwd/vM6e3Jg/y4hf X4GrSZNza/jeWxOSamcdsw9euHI5g8nX12+3sd/M/fi5eer6h2sLPmUG3k8P1E+uXhh98IHS rScu5e5Bol+CCpVYijMSDbWYi4oTAT+ho2boAQAA Subject: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:41:35 -0000 Hello, Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? How do you get there from the airport? What kind of food is available there? Any shuttles there? Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Caribe Royal? Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From dave.hood@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 06:23:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E2A21F8621 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:23:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHSSYdioPnkR for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A3521F8B75 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:23:28 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-6d-512f685fc971 Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EF.88.02430.F586F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:23:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:23:26 -0500 From: Dave Hood To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Thread-Index: AQHOFblY/faM49de+UuHNimo3/RV9JiPUpPA Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:23:26 +0000 Message-ID: <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B87A@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgm58hn6gwfGdkhanpvezODB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr49L8b2wFbzgq7hzpZ25g/MvWxcjJISFgIrGy6wU7hC0mceHe eqA4F4eQwBFGiX2fzjBDOMsZJZr+zwGrYhPQkHhyaTITiC0iUCLx830HkM3BISxgINF3Ix0i bCjRtLSVGcI2kri//CcLiM0ioCpxbs4OVhCbV8BX4vbyN2C2kIC2xK6XR9hAxnAK6EjcbM4F CTMC3fP91BqwTcwC4hK3nsxngrhTQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/1ghbGWJJU/2s0DU60ncmDqFDcLW lli28DUzxFpBiZMzn7BMYBSdhWTsLCQts5C0zELSsoCRZRUjR2lxalluupHBJkZg2B+TYNPd wbjnpeUhRmkOFiVx3iDXCwFCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGBdNqRA4pZ292rhQ 691jqbtqPZMVd3U/+ukybaNqoCUDe8rK56nyEa3LnrHFvXGJblF49nRbaupL/a/bHO2WBW63 CD6QxX57VqRC4bMlFzXL3mewLNsQW26+rHun16zDDzgO8pnzyu9L/JFj/cW2697CqtKvx5Oq XS5arvx5ZJ2CZ/ujxOvv7iqxFGckGmoxFxUnAgCCUx1sSQIAAA== Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:23:40 -0000 I am staying at the Holiday Inn. According to google maps, it isn't that fa= r from the airport, so I expect to just take a taxi. As to getting to the m= eeting venue, google maps says it is a bit over 2km, so I expect to walk mo= st of the time.=20 Dave -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Balazs Lengyel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:40 AM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Hello, Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? How do you get there from the airport? What kind of food is available there? Any shuttles there? Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Car= ibe Royal? Balazs --=20 Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From ietf@rozanak.com Thu Feb 28 06:44:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807D621F8556 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:44:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2KuYvdxJ8XDy for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF4821F853C for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.142.200.70] ([89.204.139.70]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lk8Go-1UheeT2hSc-00bSBy; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:44:52 -0500 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:44:43 +0100 Message-ID: Importance: normal From: Ietf To: dave.hood@ericsson.com, balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com, 86attendees@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.android.email_52510638517705" X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Q7LICAKjW4SaKaNBPR8sqxkKrx/HixntIAympa+ZDgb ofQ/pFD6O02qs/SktREnf1vSiFeX9T78vxEFW/5z9z1dC7ur3J A4ul7uBDHambQEuA3LlLJDR3lukkIVCE5jgvpxn2fD6yE2f+Sp DXB0WT5eS1Xc28lIAvyV3J/RE45MhEids9u67rezNDw6AuGj6J ZER+XbSNFtOfkKTPpMRWBTFl6YreJOEfNRdf1/8DAT1EUbS8/W iYQA+gvYXdoM8IEKKhJ5P8ES/v8s2VXxgub3oz5I9yV5MknzO1 BPqO2DHxBT/hP0aDjJ+rU5h/4WJWd/C2OFGJ7ssZhjjRQqsByd 8hXC4Jo52KRibHf9jeo1dKP57KCgfD5UIo5RTZxYplstSFkcEg mDUozqDxdG5zA== Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:44:55 -0000 ----_com.android.email_52510638517705 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h8wzjSmRYI8f for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E92321F8ABC for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBDE12EB7E; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TU7EuYH74NAp; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from new-host.home (pool-71-163-123-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.123.187]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B23F212EB79; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:48:35 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Marcia Beaulieu In-Reply-To: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:48:35 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> To: Balazs Lengyel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:48:37 -0000 Hi Balazs, Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the = Holiday Inn. There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more = information, please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/dining Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check = with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many = IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please = see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/directions If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. Thanks, Marcia On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? > How do you get there from the airport? > What kind of food is available there? > Any shuttles there? > Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to = the Caribe Royal? > Balazs >=20 > --=20 > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > System Manager > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20 From balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 06:56:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C1221F86D5 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:56:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jVWZ9FUVBBh for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60C921F87B9 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:56:13 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-be-512f700354c8 Received: from esessmw0256.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 63.A8.19728.3007F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:56:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.198.29] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0256.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:56:03 +0100 Message-ID: <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:56:02 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcia Beaulieu References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpmluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3Rpe5QD/QYM5TE4tT0/tZLNZcPcTo wOTxb9p3do8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGWsv9THWtDKX/H770+mBsZb3F2MnBwSAiYS 5w8eZoawxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJJRYtu8SVDOGkaJCb+2s4NU8QpoS6z4+pcRxGYRUJVYuuMe E4jNJmAkMbX/PEsXIweHqECUxJV9lhDlghInZz5hAbFFBDQkOt80gJUwC0hInLrCChIWFjCQ 6F3ZBmYLCURLrJt4AqycU8BG4ujOHjCbWcBW4sKc61C2vMT2t3OYIeo1JB5e+Ms6gVFwFpJt s5C0zELSsoCReRUje25iZk56udEmRmBAHtzyW3UH451zIocYpTlYlMR5w10vBAgJpCeWpGan phakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpgXLgtvM617I6+79W8a0cVVt/Uzooyqfa8NUul/0hykMj+dbkH te3snHJmTd1fZMvq86y1Ku85E5+s9HNHXoZFinPmcNxKuxmxNDr3W6ET7zrVYC29sGd2Esey rDW3e1qVfdQtCk+bH92meOhqlt5MCUnZ2cujeH9uZjBRvpl9t0DqhdL/ZnElluKMREMt5qLi RACllZ2hFgIAAA== Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:56:15 -0000 Hello, Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. regards balazs On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > Hi Balazs, > > Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holiday Inn. > > There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more information, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining > > Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. > > To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions > > If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. > > Thanks, > Marcia > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >> Hello, >> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >> How do you get there from the airport? >> What kind of food is available there? >> Any shuttles there? >> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Caribe Royal? >> Balazs >> >> -- >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From dave.hood@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 06:57:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F0EA21F8881 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:57:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XcQOZgpWxB8O for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A684921F88DD for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 06:57:56 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-b2-512f7073ff0a Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E6.99.02411.3707F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:57:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:57:55 -0500 From: Dave Hood To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= , "Marcia Beaulieu" Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Thread-Index: AQHOFcO5/faM49de+UuHNimo3/RV9JiPXFJQ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:57:54 +0000 Message-ID: <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9AB@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuG5JgX6gweIpjBanpvezWKy5eojR gcnj37Tv7B5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpYtM2kYK9wRffJo8wNjNv5uxg5OSQETCQe TT/DDGGLSVy4t56ti5GLQ0jgCKPEpJs32SGc5YwS1xZvYgSpYhPQkHhyaTITiC0ikCvx/f5/ oDgHB7OAocT+qzIgprCAgUTfjXSICkOJpqWtzBC2kcTpx1dYQWwWAVWJid2PwabwCvhKvJ++ DCwuJFAvcf7gAbB6TgEdiZc/H7CA2IxAt30/tQasnllAXOLWk/lMEDcLSCzZcx7qflGJl4// sULYyhJLnuxngajXk7gxdQobhK0tsWzha2aIvYISJ2c+YZnAKDYLydhZSFpmIWmZhaRlASPL KkaO0uLUstx0I8NNjMAIOSbB5riDccEny0OM0hwsSuK8oa4XAoQE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNS iw8xMnFwSjUw2r/5pCCu1sdStbbY/O7SEtvZa2RVjoZ3nhT99eVVulbSmWtVhuZLpu8NUC5c u77gnfmXj4UNN6KDVPu2vPpjuS1AW0btRuDvCbNdDCca8SQt+35EITXo69+sdR0tGVrB39IT Q9ds358SkGkm5v24Svz8Xq49Rtc7Pq3SUype3sC/a/WVLCERJZbijERDLeai4kQAtO51Rl4C AAA= Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:57:57 -0000 Valid point. As best I can tell from the google maps view, it should be oka= y for walking. -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Balazs Lengyel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:56 AM To: Marcia Beaulieu Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Hello, Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distanc= e 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. regards balazs On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > Hi Balazs, > > Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Ho= liday Inn. > > There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for=20 > more information, please see:=20 > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/di > sbv/hoteldetail/dining > > Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check wit= h the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF at= tendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. > > To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please=20 > see:=20 > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/di > sbv/hoteldetail/directions > > If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. > > Thanks, > Marcia > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >> Hello, >> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >> How do you get there from the airport? >> What kind of food is available there? >> Any shuttles there? >> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the = Caribe Royal? >> Balazs >> >> --=20 >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> --=20 Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From richard.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 28 07:02:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B84D21F8BC9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cp7TrZw9tBH4 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-da0-f43.google.com (mail-da0-f43.google.com [209.85.210.43]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F9621F8BB5 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-da0-f43.google.com with SMTP id u36so900318dak.30 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hSTYF1EgVvs71Te5sk8tS/T1zfeRH14ueJjmDGf53ao=; b=ywdi4OOtOHft+/d0oOklaGD+oZ+XRQB8npohNBqS7U/J8vR9O9cOpqbPKg01qekYWi W/3zhbGKH88oNAzc7PXFeMjH8mOd98g+kXscvX5t5S3wPtrrTGRMLhIK57k1uJWFGJAO cc170F3Ceqy7twz6RZOdOEnhls1L0Xinzn/t8sDCYmczSH1EbAzmbhVXPog5qyHy0A5m Q7qQ8sZWkTJSMY4RXJurAdvL2YZ4bSj/LA3TIxOjqwYTYGngZ7P2zM6O1c/+HLCIB8Qs aquK6VGW4gc5hJ/g/bKgvUQm1p5yAdoYBXCK/2CNB5XcFUIbECs2lzDYaULnRBdhvH4N 4lmw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.139.198 with SMTP id ra6mr13494515pab.174.1362063746071; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.204.66 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:02:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:02:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Balazs Lengyel Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5dbb70bf91c704d6ca2d1d Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Marcia Beaulieu Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:02:27 -0000 --047d7b5dbb70bf91c704d6ca2d1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would not recommend trying to walk from the Holiday Inn to the Caribe Royale. The distance may be manageable, but it looks like there's an interstate (major motorway) in the way, with no real way for pedestrians to cross. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The > distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. > regards balazs > > > On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > >> Hi Balazs, >> >> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the >> Holiday Inn. >> >> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more >> information, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/** >> holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/**en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/**dining >> >> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check >> with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF >> attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >> >> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please >> see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/**holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/** >> en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/**directions >> >> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >> >> Thanks, >> Marcia >> >> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >> Hello, >>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>> How do you get there from the airport? >>> What kind of food is available there? >>> Any shuttles there? >>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the >>> Caribe Royal? >>> Balazs >>> >>> -- >>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>> System Manager >>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/86attendees >>> >>> > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > System Manager > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > ______________________________**_________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/86attendees > --047d7b5dbb70bf91c704d6ca2d1d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would not recommend trying to walk from the Holiday Inn = to the Caribe Royale. =A0The distance may be manageable, but it looks like = there's an interstate (major motorway) in the way, with no real way for= pedestrians to cross.


On = Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@er= icsson.com> wrote:
Hello,
Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distanc= e 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be.
regards balazs


On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
Hi Balazs,

Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holi= day Inn.

There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for mor= e information, please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/o= rlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining

Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with = the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF atte= ndees are staying at the Holiday Inn.

To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please see:= http://www.ichotelsgro= up.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldeta= il/directions

If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you.

Thanks,
Marcia

On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

Hello,
Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
How do you get there from the airport?
What kind of food is available there?
Any shuttles there?
Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Car= ibe Royal?
Balazs

--
Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary= Ltd.
System Manager
ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-1-437= -7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson= .com

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


--
Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary= Ltd.
System Manager
ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-1-437= -7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson= .com

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--047d7b5dbb70bf91c704d6ca2d1d-- From mbeaulieu@amsl.com Thu Feb 28 07:04:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D43621F8BE8 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xW1f1KIOkjno for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD90221F8BE2 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFDF12EB8B; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 88QAQl2xYGSo; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from new-host.home (pool-71-163-123-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.123.187]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1443612EB87; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:04:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Marcia Beaulieu In-Reply-To: <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:04:01 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> To: Balazs Lengyel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:04:03 -0000 Hi Balazs, I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! Marcia On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The = distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. > regards balazs >=20 > On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> Hi Balazs, >>=20 >> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at = the Holiday Inn. >>=20 >> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for = more information, please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/dining >>=20 >> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check = with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many = IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>=20 >> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, = please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/directions >>=20 >> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Marcia >>=20 >> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>=20 >>> Hello, >>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>> How do you get there from the airport? >>> What kind of food is available there? >>> Any shuttles there? >>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to = the Caribe Royal? >>> Balazs >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>> System Manager >>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > System Manager > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >=20 From dave.hood@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 07:10:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B41121F84A7 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:10:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VDkcvag3GdXM for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:10:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D6021F84A6 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:10:08 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-86-512f734f3d8c Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 43.5B.02430.F437F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:10:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:10:07 -0500 From: Dave Hood To: Richard Barnes , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Thread-Index: AQHOFcO5/faM49de+UuHNimo3/RV9JiPsYaA//+tnVA= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9EA@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9EAeusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn25AsX6gwbsDPBanpvezWKy5eojR 4sOTcywOzB7/pn1n99g56y67x5IlP5kCmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mt5M6WAqOBdesep8D1sD Y69PFyMnh4SAicSBec+ZIWwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcYZTYsuQaO4SznFHi74znrCBVbAIaEk8u TWYCsUUECiRWNc0FizMLRErcuzoBqJuDQ1jAQKLvRjpEiaFE09JWZgjbSmLPmXcsIDaLgKrE 8mu9YHFeAV+Ja7ueMULsOsYo0bZwFdh8ToFAiQ+7F4A1MAJd9/3UGiaIXeISt57MZ4K4WkBi yZ7zUB+ISrx8/I8VwlaWWPJkPwtEfb7Eu+9nWSGWCUqcnPmEZQKj6Cwko2YhKZuFpAwiridx Y+oUNghbW2LZwtfMELauxIx/h1iQxRcwsq9i5CgtTi3LTTcy2MQIjLVjEmy6Oxj3vLQ8xCjN waIkzhvkeiFASCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4ECMTB6dUA2Oat3WJsu6h87slTnn/yAkqklqw 2uv84kUBs8/tafppsr9t6l7bwCefkufzr+85mp4Xpue09eBfzY7lqjouq/NF5NyqMx6WSvL+ 8Eiaq9Tnns898zCXgrNGrZBxoNjZ23Omx0zWOPwuqUf4zcytSjPDE7Zt5NidtdX8egtn2dbI VhWDfxGXk5VYijMSDbWYi4oTAXRso8CDAgAA Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Marcia Beaulieu Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:10:11 -0000 --_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9EAeusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess it depends on which Holiday Inn you're staying at. The one on the e= ast side of the freeway doesn't have that problem. http://www.ichotelsgroup= .com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions?cm= _mmc=3DEMAIL-_-Res_AWA-_-Res_RS_-_-en-_-DRIVING From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Richard Barnes Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:02 AM To: Bal=E1zs Lengyel Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Marcia Beaulieu Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel I would not recommend trying to walk from the Holiday Inn to the Caribe Roy= ale. The distance may be manageable, but it looks like there's an intersta= te (major motorway) in the way, with no real way for pedestrians to cross. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel > wrote: Hello, Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distanc= e 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. regards balazs On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: Hi Balazs, Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holi= day Inn. There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more in= formation, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotel= s/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with = the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF atte= ndees are staying at the Holiday Inn. To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please see:= http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/directions If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. Thanks, Marcia On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: Hello, Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? How do you get there from the airport? What kind of food is available there? Any shuttles there? Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Car= ibe Royal? Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.L= engyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.L= engyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9EAeusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I guess it depends o= n which Holiday Inn you’re staying at. The one on the east side of th= e freeway doesn’t have that problem. http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/h= oteldetail/directions?cm_mmc=3DEMAIL-_-Res_AWA-_-Res_RS_-_-en-_-DRIVING=

 

 

From: 86attend= ees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard Barnes
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:02 AM
To: Bal=E1zs Lengyel
Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; Marcia Beaulieu
Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel

 

I would not recommend trying to walk from the Holida= y Inn to the Caribe Royale.  The distance may be manageable, but it lo= oks like there's an interstate (major motorway) in the way, with no real wa= y for pedestrians to cross.

 

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel <= balazs.len= gyel@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hello,
Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distanc= e 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be.
regards balazs



On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:

Hi Balazs,

Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holi= day Inn.

There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more in= formation, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/h= oteldetail/dining

Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with = the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF atte= ndees are staying at the Holiday Inn.

To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please see:= http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/h= oteldetail/directions

If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you.

Thanks,
Marcia

On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

Hello,
Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
How do you get there from the airport?
What kind of food is available there?
Any shuttles there?
Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Car= ibe Royal?
Balazs

--
Balazs Lengyel                 &nbs= p;     Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
System Manager
ECN: 831 7320                  = ;      Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-= 7909              email: Balazs.Len= gyel@ericsson.com

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


--
Balazs Lengyel                 &nbs= p;     Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
System Manager
ECN: 831 7320                  = ;      Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-= 7909              email: Balazs.Len= gyel@ericsson.com

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

 

--_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B9EAeusaamb105erics_-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 08:33:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D317821F8C0C for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.336 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.336 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dl7M76goaMEb for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8249821F87D5 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 08:33:34 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-0a-512f86ddba73 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id ED.CF.02411.DD68F215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:33:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:33:33 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Dave Hood , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= , "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Thread-Index: AQHOFblYRjN1W0d+l0qOIsesqrMVMpiPprYA///P1gA= Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:33:32 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206B6D7@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B87A@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2B87A@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO69Nv1Ag0kdzBanpvezODB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr405zI1PBJ96KJUvCGhgXcXcxcnJICJhItDz4ywphi0lcuLee DcQWEjjCKLFyqRSEvZxRomMnI4jNJmAk8WJjD3sXIxeHiMAMRonPW28BNXNwCAsYSPTdSAep EREwlGha2soMYVtJzF/0GMxmEVCVeL9vIhOIzSvgLdH27QILxPx8iXvn5oPN5xTwk/gz5SaY zQh0z/dTa8DqmQXEJW49mc8EcaeAxJI955khbFGJl4//Qd2vLPF9ziMWiHo9iRtTp7BB2NoS yxa+ZobYKyhxcuYTlgmMorOQjJ2FpGUWkpZZSFoWMLKsYuQoLU4ty003MtzECAz6YxJsjjsY F3yyPMQozcGiJM4b6nohQEggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwenVAOj/eMPrBvO/dbvWtrh udnwxuPVGV2iaZsEVn9oSHZP2rOJ8dQ7z/Z59x4GSE7/HjL3os76mqymDCfm9qVnqyS375l/ /Et96pfqQ5HnEpeWhZaI7Yl79TNO9uSLFW96yjboFyt8vHSYT2T7Qtf71b65iyJinr8uv+qW wv/5ZVHql03TfzO3Ff95psRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAP2KzHFIAgAA Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:33:46 -0000 I'm at Holliday Inn as well (switched from Blue Heron). There's Dunkin Donuts in between Holliday Inn and Caribe Royal and, as you = know it, America runs on Dunkin! ;) Yes, walking or taking shuttle. Regards, Greg=20 -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Dave Hood Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:23 AM To: Bal=E1zs Lengyel; 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel I am staying at the Holiday Inn. According to google maps, it isn't that fa= r from the airport, so I expect to just take a taxi. As to getting to the m= eeting venue, google maps says it is a bit over 2km, so I expect to walk mo= st of the time.=20 Dave -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Balazs Lengyel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:40 AM To: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Hello, Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? How do you get there from the airport? What kind of food is available there? Any shuttles there? Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Car= ibe Royal? Balazs --=20 Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From ietf@rozanak.com Thu Feb 28 09:53:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07C9021F897F for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:53:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.724 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.724 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.125, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6tyvcb6CNkXY for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.195]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E0521F87AA for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 09:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kopoli (e179167214.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.167.214]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MOfLq-1UDrUS1jIE-006SgX; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:32 -0500 From: "Hosnieh Rafiee" To: <86attendees@ietf.org> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:53:26 +0100 Message-ID: <004801ce15dc$84c8e5b0$8e5ab110$@rozanak.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJQbz/N7mfXu7QjeSOoQ+aKR3D9XQIgQWeWAUWfAhiXb6iO0A== Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:vtv9F7v9enyLLRTdlkBzbl3u1whcEWJ7ytlo3k9Umli 8pNBl15HO8H3z3xFKnHaTs5xnfjK5STLy+4R6JGKp0ti2S2ok9 Q8klkGsU94ku6ctu9dNyeYDQo5Gc2f3PU8iQ5ZL7smgcP2mC8f SD7aD9+5FgXeGJ/wilO3nKdQ2oOcv5ewacqHJbdzcMsiVHA0+D 1u93TSszowYJsrHb36TqE6K75ZxLrYhRcpwT/8SFTRO1wSlPZF VK0Ij+ItuJXEu9Rv2N/hq1x8XlZTdKcrzDkJllcosnUeNlf4A0 mW+RB1UO2oS+/gsw3Au1pNB5PpczCOpQwoszFN0hvKVZ3mHQ7T rAx3y8JLfOErf4AI3Cyo= Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:53:35 -0000 Is it really possible to arrange with for a bus or van to take us from the Holiday Inn to the conference and back? Walking is also an option but if it is hot and humid not too many people will prefer this mode of transit.. . If there are really 35 of us staying at the Holiday Inn, maybe we can have them arrange transportation for us as Balazs mentioned. Holiday Inns usually have some type of shuttle service. Hosnieh -----Original Message----- From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Balazs Lengyel Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:56 PM To: Marcia Beaulieu Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Hello, Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. regards balazs On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > Hi Balazs, > > Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holiday Inn. > > There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for > more information, please see: > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/di > sbv/hoteldetail/dining > > Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. > > To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please > see: > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/di > sbv/hoteldetail/directions > > If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. > > Thanks, > Marcia > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >> Hello, >> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >> How do you get there from the airport? >> What kind of food is available there? >> Any shuttles there? >> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Caribe Royal? >> Balazs >> >> -- >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From ogud@ogud.com Thu Feb 28 10:24:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1E321F8C14 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:24:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uq2no-MzRVV9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp81.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (smtp81.ord1c.emailsrvr.com [108.166.43.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823D221F8C1E for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 207D6500CE for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:24:33 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp3.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id C41CD500B7 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:24:28 -0500 From: Olafur Gudmundsson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 86attendees@ietf.org References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:24:34 -0000 According to google maps one can walk it. http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have crosswalks marked on them. Olafur On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > Hi Balazs, > > I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! > > Marcia > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >> Hello, >> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >> regards balazs >> >> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>> Hi Balazs, >>> >>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at the Holiday Inn. >>> >>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for more information, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining >>> >>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>> >>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, please see: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions >>> >>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Marcia >>> >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>>> How do you get there from the airport? >>>> What kind of food is available there? >>>> Any shuttles there? >>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to the Caribe Royal? >>>> Balazs >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>> System Manager >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>> >> >> -- >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > From william.atwood@concordia.ca Thu Feb 28 11:16:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A86C21F88DD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:16:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HgEJehj47ty0 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.94]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA7021F8848 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (bill@poise.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.209]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id r1SJGNH3004897; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:16:24 -0500 Message-ID: <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:16:38 -0500 From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olafur Gudmundsson , 86attendees@ietf.org References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> In-Reply-To: <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2013/02/28 14:16:24 EST Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:16:27 -0000 Welllll...... >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) Bill On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > > According to google maps one can walk it. > http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB > > In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have > crosswalks marked on them. > > Olafur > > > On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> Hi Balazs, >> >> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >> >> Marcia >> >> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The >>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >>> regards balazs >>> >>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>>> Hi Balazs, >>>> >>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at >>>> the Holiday Inn. >>>> >>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for >>>> more information, please see: >>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining >>>> >>>> >>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please >>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on >>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>>> >>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, >>>> please see: >>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions >>>> >>>> >>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Marcia >>>> >>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>>>> How do you get there from the airport? >>>>> What kind of food is available there? >>>>> Any shuttles there? >>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to >>>>> the Caribe Royal? >>>>> Balazs >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>>> System Manager >>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>> System Manager >>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From carlos@lacnic.net Thu Feb 28 11:18:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F1A21F8B70 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:18:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LbBA5C4XIlFC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF66721F89A4 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:844e:b3de:614d:c8d5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:844e:b3de:614d:c8d5]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F435308444; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:18:00 -0200 (UYST) Message-ID: <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:18:05 -0200 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Atwood References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> In-Reply-To: <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org, Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:18:15 -0000 Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? :D On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: > Welllll...... > > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. > > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) > > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) > > Bill > > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >> According to google maps one can walk it. >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB >> >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have >> crosswalks marked on them. >> >> Olafur >> >> >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>> Hi Balazs, >>> >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >>> >>> Marcia >>> >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >>>> regards balazs >>>> >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>>>> Hi Balazs, >>>>> >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at >>>>> the Holiday Inn. >>>>> >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for >>>>> more information, please see: >>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>>>> >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, >>>>> please see: >>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Marcia >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? >>>>>> Any shuttles there? >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? >>>>>> Balazs >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>>>> System Manager >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>> System Manager >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees From richard.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 28 11:21:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28D121F8B8D for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.416, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XmzLIXnPeyYw for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A880F21F8B0A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f54.google.com with SMTP id rr4so1247060pbb.41 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dGO4vY0PVnk3rQ2OVfH5IEmnuKaRyXM9YAgxp2lAJO4=; b=tM9XtOQGNg9mwSMLaOdf7QVTm/6KwIyXSR/rjf6P/7ncT8dDUREwKANDFCxnu9HsO9 4dYypSJqZ5bRLdGZc7Rr3Yk+VCycHjPVnLrlKdHa/qSGCnzMoT+mK67zsLBkQ1s2VAJ2 VkzepYY0o60Guw9YEwsX9KJPDpouM7TleQb5hRxQEr66CGazvARmqzYbU2EI73Go/z3l Zv4Irhr2F/sThgCFcDBBjDlE4o16b8TxdcByVxL4f6sLW43zH7hOFHm7BvnimKfq3bfB PUE1+0etSpkVcAYxO6Je8fN2q6LSz4hBEfFm2tutONxr2G4s8539r4KvlRVw6KrrnU9I Ns0A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.252.134 with SMTP id zs6mr10902634pbc.66.1362079309394; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.204.66 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:21:49 -0500 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: "Carlos M. Martinez" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e0c2b647b8404d6cdcd95 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, William Atwood , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:21:50 -0000 --047d7b2e0c2b647b8404d6cdcd95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Watch out for gators. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-woman-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? > > :D > > > On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: > > Welllll...... > > > > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. > > > > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a > > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. > > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena > > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the > > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) > > > > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the > > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach > > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I > > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) > > > > Bill > > > > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > >> According to google maps one can walk it. > >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB > >> > >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have > >> crosswalks marked on them. > >> > >> Olafur > >> > >> > >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > >>> Hi Balazs, > >>> > >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! > >>> > >>> Marcia > >>> > >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The > >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. > >>>> regards balazs > >>>> > >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > >>>>> Hi Balazs, > >>>>> > >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at > >>>>> the Holiday Inn. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for > >>>>> more information, please see: > >>>>> > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please > >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on > >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. > >>>>> > >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, > >>>>> please see: > >>>>> > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Marcia > >>>>> > >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? > >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? > >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? > >>>>>> Any shuttles there? > >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to > >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? > >>>>>> Balazs > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > >>>>>> System Manager > >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: > >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list > >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > >>>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > >>>> System Manager > >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: > Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> 86attendees mailing list > >>> 86attendees@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 86attendees mailing list > >> 86attendees@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > --047d7b2e0c2b647b8404d6cdcd95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


O= n Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic.net&= gt; wrote:
Should I bring my explorer's hat and kni= fe ?

:D


On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote:
> Welllll......
>
> >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. >
> However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a
> sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 = m.
> =A0You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena<= br> > Vista Suites. =A0(The "road" seems to go past the power stat= ion to the
> back of the Buena Vista parking lot.)
>
> On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of th= e
> power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beac= h
> Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. = =A0I
> will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. =A0:-)
>
> =A0 Bill
>
> On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> According to google maps one can walk it.
>> =A0 =A0 htt= p://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB
>>
>> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have=
>> crosswalks marked on them.
>>
>> Olafur
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>
>>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk!
>>>
>>> Marcia
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main v= enue? The
>>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. mi= ght be.
>>>> regards balazs
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF grou= p staying at
>>>>> the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunc= h and dinner, for
>>>>> more information, please see:
>>>>> http:/= /www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hotelde= tail/dining
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-tri= p, please
>>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule w= ill depend on
>>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn= .
>>>>>
>>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more inf= ormation,
>>>>> please see:
>>>>> ht= tp://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hot= eldetail/directions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward t= hat to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marcia
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
>>>>>> How do you get there from the airport?
>>>>>> What kind of food is available there?
>>>>>> Any shuttles there?
>>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary roun= d-trip shuttle to
>>>>>> the Caribe Royal?
>>>>>> Balazs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>>>> System Manager
>>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-= 1-437-7320
>>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email:
>>>>>> Bal= azs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>>>>> 86attendee= s@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86atten= dees
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>> System Manager
>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0Tel: +36-1-437-73= 20
>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 86attendees mailing list
>> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

--047d7b2e0c2b647b8404d6cdcd95-- From carlos@lacnic.net Thu Feb 28 11:25:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CAA21F8522 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:25:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZTZq1L6wDMvD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C37121F8518 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:844e:b3de:614d:c8d5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:844e:b3de:614d:c8d5]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08C308437; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:25:38 -0200 (UYST) Message-ID: <512FAF37.5060100@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:25:43 -0200 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Barnes References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010307070504010007010408" X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, William Atwood , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:25:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010307070504010007010408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Done. I'm sleeping in the terminal room. :)) ~C. On 2/28/13 5:21 PM, Richard Barnes wrote: > Watch out for gators. > > http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-woman-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez > wrote: > > Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? > > :D > > > On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: > > Welllll...... > > > > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. > > > > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a > > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field > for 100 m. > > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena > > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the > > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) > > > > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side > of the > > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake > Bryan Beach > > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to > try. I > > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) > > > > Bill > > > > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > >> According to google maps one can walk it. > >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB > >> > >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have > >> crosswalks marked on them. > >> > >> Olafur > >> > >> > >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > >>> Hi Balazs, > >>> > >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! > >>> > >>> Marcia > >>> > >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main > venue? The > >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. > >>>> regards balazs > >>>> > >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > >>>>> Hi Balazs, > >>>>> > >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group > staying at > >>>>> the Holiday Inn. > >>>>> > >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and > dinner, for > >>>>> more information, please see: > >>>>> > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please > >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will > depend on > >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. > >>>>> > >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, > >>>>> please see: > >>>>> > http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to > you. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Marcia > >>>>> > >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? > >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? > >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? > >>>>>> Any shuttles there? > >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip > shuttle to > >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? > >>>>>> Balazs > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > >>>>>> System Manager > >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > > >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 > email: > >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list > >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > >>>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > >>>> System Manager > >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > > >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 > email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> 86attendees mailing list > >>> 86attendees@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> 86attendees mailing list > >> 86attendees@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > --------------010307070504010007010408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Done. I'm sleeping in the terminal room.

:))

~C.

On 2/28/13 5:21 PM, Richard Barnes wrote:


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic.net> wrote:
Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ?

:D


On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote:
> Welllll......
>
> >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you.
>
> However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a
> sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m.
>  You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena
> Vista Suites.  (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the
> back of the Buena Vista parking lot.)
>
> On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the
> Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the
> power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach
> Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try.  I
> will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday.  :-)
>
>   Bill
>
> On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> According to google maps one can walk it.
>>     http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB
>>
>> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have
>> crosswalks marked on them.
>>
>> Olafur
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>
>>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk!
>>>
>>> Marcia
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The
>>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be.
>>>> regards balazs
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at
>>>>> the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for
>>>>> more information, please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please
>>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on
>>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information,
>>>>> please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marcia
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
>>>>>> How do you get there from the airport?
>>>>>> What kind of food is available there?
>>>>>> Any shuttles there?
>>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to
>>>>>> the Caribe Royal?
>>>>>> Balazs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>>>> System Manager
>>>>>> ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email:
>>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>> System Manager
>>>> ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 86attendees mailing list
>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


--------------010307070504010007010408-- From bob.hinden@gmail.com Thu Feb 28 12:10:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4914C21F8585 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYB+nJgMQL2M for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ee0-f41.google.com (mail-ee0-f41.google.com [74.125.83.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4439D21F857A for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ee0-f41.google.com with SMTP id c13so1878136eek.0 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=ELrpozbADuY4kF+9833Xo9ytZkKP0p9wLo8JzABJjz4=; b=jUlgdn3LuoEqm6snh0e6Y4NHDjWOOPZ1No9RfsN41/Bq2oGbOgqpkNEj0cdczrTb0h 0PFPwFWXDu1r9LdKLyb2eQ5HS2+rchH2t+wMqchCJESThbkDDMYRi6Qu/YIHPT/Bz72I RIox+keXs8rL/9K9Zcxt6N7vkV8ELlsanTRfS7mDTuKn9/GVt5nE/cjM1UNvY4M9yXKa FQgzFYARI09kGMuIT/KmidmbHEh/JI8StCcqPiBkWWTs7LjhxnJBia6zd2kSOVH13ss6 TWd8EdTfp0/rhKQjdKRrjWveZQ1uEZ4ozErVgxjGgtoC+VMQaPp/WSBmLoV6miYmwxMp aK6w== X-Received: by 10.14.183.198 with SMTP id q46mr20379125eem.1.1362082220478; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.45.79.143] ([199.115.243.191]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d47sm13519978eem.9.2013.02.28.12.10.18 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:19 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:10:15 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> To: Richard Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:10:22 -0000 On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Richard Barnes wrote: > Watch out for gators. >=20 > = http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-wo= man-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm Avoid swimming in the canals :-) Bob From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 28 12:23:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364A821F89CE for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JFfrGFCyG9wO for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f176.google.com (mail-ve0-f176.google.com [209.85.128.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7A1B21F89B5 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f176.google.com with SMTP id cz10so2208303veb.7 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=uQxMfN4o4NWNudyCIBbHnB97f6grCBOZsLBUjXjn/v0=; b=v9lKLWO1s9K59LQiM0Q6aCNvBRVI9fwlBLOLhYyORLnmIhezFWXhqjNWyjuBWXom5p 4P7lyuRE2zzooBA0Dk9rZYAd1u8ZzNRbFOvlvVC8AfCHc0V1Z0O/JHwSpwbShqmf0NGb V6F9fUOhmUyCdfJy+4uK8J1irB+yRt7rvhoVhszhvIs9cGJSx2VR+wEmBEfVxuj1qPTq Cua5iwImJw92LZAHyaV/BxoGwfep2TiF1elzwJnjwxqAux9ul/bpHvIhYu89S/L60FX9 A/kT5WOes2Bg1CcOQ1UM9SbaGAsf/kxwqaPvcCRSBPhxtTfyW4gjb6R5u3BLG2ucMVmR rMzw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.29.116 with SMTP id j20mr2815457vdh.16.1362083023134; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:23:43 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: Richard Barnes Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3079b792bfd9bc04d6ceaaf5 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, William Atwood , "Carlos M. Martinez" , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:23:45 -0000 --20cf3079b792bfd9bc04d6ceaaf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If the path isn't paved and is through a grassy area, then I'd be more worried about ticks and lyme disease and other tick borne infections. Mary. - who no longer hikes or leaves pavement on the East coast On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Richard Barnes wrote: > Watch out for gators. > > > http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-woman-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > >> Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? >> >> :D >> >> >> On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: >> > Welllll...... >> > >> > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. >> > >> > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a >> > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. >> > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena >> > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the >> > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) >> > >> > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the >> > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the >> > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach >> > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I >> > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >> >> According to google maps one can walk it. >> >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB >> >> >> >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have >> >> crosswalks marked on them. >> >> >> >> Olafur >> >> >> >> >> >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> >>> Hi Balazs, >> >>> >> >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >> >>> >> >>> Marcia >> >>> >> >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hello, >> >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The >> >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >> >>>> regards balazs >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> >>>>> Hi Balazs, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at >> >>>>> the Holiday Inn. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for >> >>>>> more information, please see: >> >>>>> >> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please >> >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on >> >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, >> >>>>> please see: >> >>>>> >> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> Marcia >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hello, >> >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >> >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? >> >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? >> >>>>>> Any shuttles there? >> >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to >> >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? >> >>>>>> Balazs >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> >>>>>> System Manager >> >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >> >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list >> >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >>>>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> >>>> System Manager >> >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> 86attendees mailing list >> >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> 86attendees mailing list >> >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > --20cf3079b792bfd9bc04d6ceaaf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If the path isn't paved and is through a grassy area, then I'd be m= ore worried about ticks and lyme disease and other tick borne infections.
Mary.=A0
- who no longer hikes or leaves paveme= nt on the East coast

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Richard Bar= nes <richard.barnes@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Car= los M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic.net> wrote:
Should I bring my explorer's hat and kni= fe ?

:D


On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote:
> Welllll......
>
> >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. >
> However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a
> sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 = m.
> =A0You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena<= br> > Vista Suites. =A0(The "road" seems to go past the power stat= ion to the
> back of the Buena Vista parking lot.)
>
> On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of th= e
> power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beac= h
> Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. = =A0I
> will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. =A0:-)
>
> =A0 Bill
>
> On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> According to google maps one can walk it.
>> =A0 =A0 htt= p://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB
>>
>> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have=
>> crosswalks marked on them.
>>
>> Olafur
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>
>>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk!
>>>
>>> Marcia
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main v= enue? The
>>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. mi= ght be.
>>>> regards balazs
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF grou= p staying at
>>>>> the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunc= h and dinner, for
>>>>> more information, please see:
>>>>> http:/= /www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hotelde= tail/dining
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-tri= p, please
>>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule w= ill depend on
>>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn= .
>>>>>
>>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more inf= ormation,
>>>>> please see:
>>>>> ht= tp://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hot= eldetail/directions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward t= hat to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marcia
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
>>>>>> How do you get there from the airport?
>>>>>> What kind of food is available there?
>>>>>> Any shuttles there?
>>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary roun= d-trip shuttle to
>>>>>> the Caribe Royal?
>>>>>> Balazs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>>>> System Manager
>>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0email:
>>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86atten= dees
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>> System Manager
>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ema= il: Balazs= .Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>> 86at= tendees@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 86attendees mailing list
>> 86attend= ees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
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--20cf3079b792bfd9bc04d6ceaaf5-- From dave.hood@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 12:25:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93F521F87AD for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLnJOnXEhALq for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE05821F8793 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-7c-512fbd3f3848 Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B6.20.02430.F3DBF215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:25:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:25:35 -0500 From: Dave Hood To: Mary Barnes , Richard Barnes Thread-Topic: [86attendees] Official backup hotel Thread-Index: AQHOFfGRXa7tSJIZmkKmMBk50gqBD5iPt2Vw Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:25:34 +0000 Message-ID: <8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2BE5E@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2BE5Eeusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonQddhr36gwYXb4hanpvezWMze9YLJ Yu+t38wW39uWM1l8eHKOxaJp8RVWBzaPL0deMXrsnHWX3WPJkp9MHvt+H2f2mHBqN0sAaxSX TUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxpVLK9kKfk1irDjZ+oypgfFwfRcjB4eEgInE899uXYycQKaYxIV769m6 GLk4hASOMEq83HGUEcJZzigxZeksRpAqNgENiSeXJjOB2CICYRKT9twF62AW2Mgo8fTVeXaQ qcICBhJ9N9Ihagwlmpa2MoOERQSMJNobw0HCLAKqEoefP2MBsXkFfCV+Tp/NDLFrNrPEq7+z mUDqOQUCJdacjwKpYQQ67vupNWBrmQXEJW49mc8EcbSAxJI955khbFGJl4//sULYyhJLnuxn gajPl2jeuosNYpegxMmZT1gmMIrOQjJqFpKyWUjKIOI6Egt2f2KDsLUlli18zQxjnznwmAlZ fAEj+ypGjtLi1LLcdCODTYzA2Dwmwaa7g3HPS8tDjNIcLErivEGuFwKEBNITS1KzU1MLUovi i0pzUosPMTJxcEo1MMZekw/YtfR+biO/auwpu6l6SYWJ2alX716p1Nog97X8unLkZLHuY1vK b37pnbz9REa6Plv6ideHuc9nh9lULXP7tHS2a9wM9uolN3gSX/jqc5WsqFl+5NvqbVNvKLUU XuEQOFtzs/a1eM4Bxhmyj9pmW+ctVj2gqfCQS2DR+aWab6S0A7Zvb1JiKc5INNRiLipOBACc iqygmwIAAA== Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, William Atwood , "Carlos M. Martinez" , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:25:45 -0000 --_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2BE5Eeusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Look at the street view. The 'path' is just a side road that provides acces= s to the substation. Zero traffic, get into the hotel via parking lot. If I= 'm wrong, I'll sponsor the beer. Dave From: 86attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Mary Barnes Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:24 PM To: Richard Barnes Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; William Atwood; Carlos M. Martinez; Olafur Gudmun= dsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel If the path isn't paved and is through a grassy area, then I'd be more worr= ied about ticks and lyme disease and other tick borne infections. Mary. - who no longer hikes or leaves pavement on the East coast On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Richard Barnes > wrote: Watch out for gators. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-wom= an-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez > wrote: Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? :D On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: > Welllll...... > > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. > > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) > > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) > > Bill > > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >> According to google maps one can walk it. >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB >> >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have >> crosswalks marked on them. >> >> Olafur >> >> >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>> Hi Balazs, >>> >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >>> >>> Marcia >>> >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >>>> regards balazs >>>> >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>>>> Hi Balazs, >>>>> >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at >>>>> the Holiday Inn. >>>>> >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for >>>>> more information, please see: >>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/d= isbv/hoteldetail/dining >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>>>> >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, >>>>> please see: >>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/d= isbv/hoteldetail/directions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Marcia >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? >>>>>> Any shuttles there? >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? >>>>>> Balazs >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>>>> System Manager >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>> System Manager >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Bal= azs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> 86attendees mailing list >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees _______________________________________________ 86attendees mailing list 86attendees@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees --_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2BE5Eeusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Look at the street v= iew. The ‘path’ is just a side road that provides access to the= substation. Zero traffic, get into the hotel via parking lot. If I’m wrong, I’ll sponsor the beer.

 

Dave

 

From: 86attend= ees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:86attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mary Barnes
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:24 PM
To: Richard Barnes
Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org; William Atwood; Carlos M. Martinez; Olafur= Gudmundsson
Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel

 

If the path isn't paved and is through a grassy area= , then I'd be more worried about ticks and lyme disease and other tick born= e infections.

 

Mary. 

- who no longer hikes= or leaves pavement on the East coast

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Richard Barnes <= richard.barne= s@gmail.com> wrote:

 

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez = <carlos@lacnic.ne= t> wrote:

Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ?

:D



On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote:
> Welllll......
>
> >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. >
> However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a
> sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 = m.
>  You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Bue= na
> Vista Suites.  (The "road" seems to go past the power s= tation to the
> back of the Buena Vista parking lot.)
>
> On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of th= e
> power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beac= h
> Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. &= nbsp;I
> will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday.  :-)
>
>   Bill
>
> On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> According to google maps one can walk it.
>>     http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB
>>
>> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have=
>> crosswalks marked on them.
>>
>> Olafur
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>
>>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk!
>>>
>>> Marcia
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main v= enue? The
>>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. mi= ght be.
>>>> regards balazs
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF grou= p staying at
>>>>> the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch an= d dinner, for
>>>>> more information, please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/h= oteldetail/dining
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-tri= p, please
>>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule w= ill depend on
>>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn= .
>>>>>
>>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more inf= ormation,
>>>>> please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/h= oteldetail/directions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward t= hat to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marcia
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
>>>>>> How do you get there from the airport?
>>>>>> What kind of food is available there?
>>>>>> Any shuttles there?
>>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary roun= d-trip shuttle to
>>>>>> the Caribe Royal?
>>>>>> Balazs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Balazs Lengyel           =             Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>>>> System Manager
>>>>>> ECN: 831 7320           &= nbsp;            Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909           &nbs= p;  email:
>>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Balazs Lengyel             &= nbsp;         Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>> System Manager
>>>> ECN: 831 7320             &n= bsp;          Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              e= mail: Balazs.Len= gyel@ericsson.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>> 86at= tendees@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> 86attendees mailing list
>> 86attend= ees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

 


_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees

 

--_000_8D15A2BAF93E9C49AB037A0647E5FA6405F2BE5Eeusaamb105erics_-- From mary.h.barnes@gmail.com Thu Feb 28 12:25:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A027E21F8848 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.741 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.741 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.143, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3M4s56V91uC for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f169.google.com (mail-ve0-f169.google.com [209.85.128.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5567921F8845 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 15so2233543vea.14 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=luxXuEC8fx7h7Khu95+RF3zh10hhBsPnG1zsL/CqD5g=; b=zpCTFi3FXGRojnrUSx8mU7v34uoZn0Kx254r1JfRrmYjD+UapIXjF4U5PPM8bcPUmP +2feHW1qj1HFoewPxewLw5NEuslf2nd8wwS6JHpbb7y3fe1hysDepRKCSE5KavkAyoKq a6aC8DMt6mE25Jrk+pUuppqYIBuousNNd8KN1KzFQdz+Z2hTWOfpszPJ2b9AXIIX+EBp IFsDd48J/BCNR+46Fe0aPJea0V3uIoiYYpBC6fGSfuyxuOfMcEbzTV39tcmdGnyTpjQN hQLlkdMmdUbE5NzkX++xCj6jUHonWEwuCUz64iyNdclURWE+tkFiL4dfRB+ujJH97PoK rvAA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.38.234 with SMTP id j10mr2697934vdk.0.1362083146781; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.243.232 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:25:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <512FAF37.5060100@lacnic.net> References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> <512FA0DC.6030701@ogud.com> <512FAD16.6020301@concordia.ca> <512FAD6D.2000702@lacnic.net> <512FAF37.5060100@lacnic.net> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:25:46 -0600 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: "Carlos M. Martinez" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51d27f61e85a404d6ceb287 Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, William Atwood , Richard Barnes , Olafur Gudmundsson Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:25:48 -0000 --bcaec51d27f61e85a404d6ceb287 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There was someone that camped out in the meeting rooms or somewhere in the meeting hotel when we met in Atlanta in 2002 . He had a hiking backpack complete with sleeping bag. Although, it wasn't totally clear to me whether he was a registered attendee. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > Done. I'm sleeping in the terminal room. > > :)) > > ~C. > > > On 2/28/13 5:21 PM, Richard Barnes wrote: > > Watch out for gators. > > > http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-26/news/os-alligator-attack-woman-tears-off-arm-20120926_1_rips-clickorlando-com-arm > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez wrote: > >> Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ? >> >> :D >> >> >> On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote: >> > Welllll...... >> > >> > >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you. >> > >> > However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a >> > sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m. >> > You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena >> > Vista Suites. (The "road" seems to go past the power station to the >> > back of the Buena Vista parking lot.) >> > >> > On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the >> > Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the >> > power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach >> > Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. I >> > will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. :-) >> > >> > Bill >> > >> > On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >> >> According to google maps one can walk it. >> >> http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB >> >> >> >> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have >> >> crosswalks marked on them. >> >> >> >> Olafur >> >> >> >> >> >> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> >>> Hi Balazs, >> >>> >> >>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >> >>> >> >>> Marcia >> >>> >> >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hello, >> >>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The >> >>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >> >>>> regards balazs >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >> >>>>> Hi Balazs, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at >> >>>>> the Holiday Inn. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for >> >>>>> more information, please see: >> >>>>> >> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please >> >>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on >> >>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, >> >>>>> please see: >> >>>>> >> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>> Marcia >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hello, >> >>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >> >>>>>> How do you get there from the airport? >> >>>>>> What kind of food is available there? >> >>>>>> Any shuttles there? >> >>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to >> >>>>>> the Caribe Royal? >> >>>>>> Balazs >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> >>>>>> System Manager >> >>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> >>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >> >>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> 86attendees mailing list >> >>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >>>>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> >>>> System Manager >> >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: >> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> 86attendees mailing list >> >>> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> 86attendees mailing list >> >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> >> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list >> 86attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees > > --bcaec51d27f61e85a404d6ceb287 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was someone that camped out in the meeting rooms or somewhere in the = meeting hotel when we met in Atlanta in =A02002 . =A0He had a hiking backpa= ck complete with sleeping bag. =A0 Although, it wasn't totally clear to= me whether he was a registered attendee.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Carlos M. M= artinez <carlos@lacnic.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Done. I'm sleeping in the terminal room.

:))

~C.


On 2/28/13 5:21 PM, Richard Barnes wrote:


On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Carlos M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic.net> wrote:
Should I bring my explorer's hat and knife ?

:D


On 2/28/13 5:16 PM, William Atwood wrote:
> Welllll......
>
> >From the Holiday Inn to Lake Bryan Beach Road, I agree with you.
>
> However, from there to World Center Drive, there is a road (not a
> sidewalk) for the next 500 m, followed by nothing but a field for 100 m.
> =A0You _probably_ will be able to sneak through the back of the Buena
> Vista Suites. =A0(The "road" seems to go pas= t the power station to the
> back of the Buena Vista parking lot.)
>
> On the other hand, I have been assured that there is a path from the
> Grand Beach Resort (on Lake Bryan Beach Blvd) part the east side of the
> power station into the Caribe Royale, so going east on Lake Bryan Beach
> Blvd and south past the power station might be a useful path to try. =A0I
> will try to post a yes/no on the list on Sunday. =A0:-)
>
> =A0 Bill
>
> On 28/02/2013 1:24 PM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>> According to google maps one can walk it.
>> =A0 =A0 http://goo.gl/maps/tjoDB
>>
>> In satellite mode you can see that the intersections actually have
>> crosswalks marked on them.
>>
>> Olafur
>>
>>
>> On 28/02/2013 10:04, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>
>>> I will check to see if it is feasible to walk!
>>>
>>> Marcia
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The
>>>> distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be.
>>>> regards balazs
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote:
>>>>> Hi Balazs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at
>>>>> the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for
>>>>> more information, please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orl= ando/disbv/hoteldetail/dining
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please
>>>>> check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on
>>>>> how many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information,
>>>>> please see:
>>>>> http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/o= rlando/disbv/hoteldetail/directions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Marcia
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel?
>>>>>> How do you get there from the airport?
>>>>>> What kind of food is available there?
>>>>>> Any shuttles there?
>>>>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to
>>>>>> the Caribe Royal?
>>>>>> Balazs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>>>> System Manager
>>>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email:
>>>>>> Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>>>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/86attendees
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Balazs Lengyel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
>>>> System Manager
>>>> ECN: 831 7320 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Tel: +36-1-437-7320
>>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 86attendees mailing list
>>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86a= ttendees
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________ >> 86attendees mailing list
>> 86attendees@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86atten= dees

_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
8= 6attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees<= br>



_______________________________________________
86attendees mailing list
86attendees@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees


--bcaec51d27f61e85a404d6ceb287-- From jari.arkko@ericsson.com Thu Feb 28 12:35:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297DB21F88ED for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8p2wKDDhNw2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A2921F88DD for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:35:38 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-95-512fbf99b71a Received: from esessmw0191.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 09.EF.19728.99FBF215; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:35:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0191.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.85) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:35:37 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8752508 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:35:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1ED1544ED for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:35:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F5A507D8 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:35:23 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:35:24 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <99055113-7344-49D5-88D1-C9D0686D6FDA@ericsson.com> References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> To: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje6s/fqBBr+/c1qcmt7P4sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujPvvn7EUvOCuuLDlC2sD4zLOLkYODgkBE4mPi727GDmBTDGJ C/fWs3UxcnEICZxklHhxfSUjhLOBUeLlh5lQmauMEnfbv7BCOCcYJfbubmWCcHYwSjSd62YG GcYsoCOxYPcnNpAdvAJ6Eqt6wcLCAhYSG9cfYAex2QS0JDYuXwBWwikQJ/F+GthFLAKqEhuO RkEM0ZZYtvA1WCevgL3E0xnNLBCbXjJJnFv2kB2kXkTAUOJuqwHEB7ISK6b2MkHYahJXz20C 6xUSUJG49fcs2wRGkVlIbpuFcNssJNsWMDKvYmTPTczMSS832sQIDOKDW36r7mC8c07kEKM0 B4uSOG+464UAIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi+KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYzzt2pF+2fYHf264LWU1hyrrB/c B/LCH7V7ee02jrnooDbtqnV84QFh2akrvh8ILHWbveit60OLxO+qXRyPNf22Ni5pCog78367 1ryNfzaV6t+vEJv0k+EhO1tOrdtXsaeHJfzUAhZpOhze97VbZk9mxT6t6W9lds85ZH530Y4X Jw6vCNJx0s1WYinOSDTUYi4qTgQAY3p+szACAAA= Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:35:40 -0000 Wondering if there is a practical conclusion that would help future IAOC = work :-) Maybe not. But I have a couple of smaller observations. One is that it = seems like a special case has hit us. A joint meeting with IEEE, and we = get surprised. Maybe something to learn for future; there will be other = special cases, if not exactly the same then something else. Follow the = process, even if we think we need a special case. In this case, more = site research would have been a good idea even if we decided to take = into account an external criteria (like meeting with IEEE, which I think = is a very good thing). Another one is that transparency and open information helps. I think the = IAOC publishes new sites usually with just a message that we are going = to X. Maybe publishing few words about the trade-offs in that particular = location would help in getting everyone put the situation in the right = context. We could say that "we're going to X, and we know A is difficult = there but due to B we think this is a good trade-off". I don't recall if = we've done this so far, but a lot of the time the IAOC seems to be on = the receiving end of criticism when someone later has an issue with A. = It is easy to get an impression that we did not look at A at all, = whereas in reality it was seriously considered, just part of the overall = complex set of tradeoffs. Not to dismiss all problems this way, of = course, but often some context and information helps. Jari From swb@internet2.edu Thu Feb 28 12:44:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E10321F89B2 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.268 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.331, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLrbotJmI9yr for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from co9outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co9ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [207.46.163.28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C52721F8976 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail119-co9-R.bigfish.com (10.236.132.244) by CO9EHSOBE021.bigfish.com (10.236.130.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:40 +0000 Received: from mail119-co9 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail119-co9-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D616C0094; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.237.5; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: 1 X-BigFish: S1(zzbb2dI98dIzz1f42h1d77h1ee6h1de0h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1082kzzz2dh2a8h668h839h947hd25he5bhf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h1765h18e1h190ch1946h19b4h19c3h19ceh1ad9h1155h) Received: from mail119-co9 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail119-co9 (MessageSwitch) id 1362084271886006_2615; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO9EHSMHS017.bigfish.com (unknown [10.236.132.243]) by mail119-co9.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D7444005E; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BY2PRD0811HT003.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (157.56.237.5) by CO9EHSMHS017.bigfish.com (10.236.130.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:26 +0000 Received: from swbi2mbp.local (67.241.75.185) by pod51019.outlook.com (10.255.91.166) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.263.1; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:24 +0000 Message-ID: <512FC1A6.6050305@internet2.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:44:22 -0500 From: Scott Brim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> <99055113-7344-49D5-88D1-C9D0686D6FDA@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <99055113-7344-49D5-88D1-C9D0686D6FDA@ericsson.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [67.241.75.185] X-OriginatorOrg: internet2.edu Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 20:44:41 -0000 On 02/28/13 15:35, Jari Arkko allegedly wrote: > Another one is that transparency and open information helps. I think > the IAOC publishes new sites usually with just a message that we are > going to X. Maybe publishing few words about the trade-offs in that > particular location would help in getting everyone put the situation > in the right context. How long will it take to agree on how to weight the trade-off criteria? (Sorry for the cynical end-of-day attitude) Scott From jari.arkko@piuha.net Thu Feb 28 13:38:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F0221F8A9B for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zIg8UQCizCM9 for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D240921F8802 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0878C2CC43; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:38:04 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hmk2Wxwg4w5r; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:38:03 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A13B2CC3B; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:37:55 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <512FC1A6.6050305@internet2.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:37:16 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22255.1361542121@sandelman.ca> <5127DCFA.2060509@mnt.se> <99055113-7344-49D5-88D1-C9D0686D6FDA@ericsson.com> <512FC1A6.6050305@internet2.edu> To: Scott Brim X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "86attendees@ietf.org" <86attendees@ietf.org>, Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [86attendees] IAOC meeting siting decisions X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:38:16 -0000 >=20 > How long will it take to agree on how to weight the trade-off = criteria? >=20 > (Sorry for the cynical end-of-day attitude) >=20 That's OK=85 the answer is probably "infinitely long" :-) But I was only = proposing providing some information, not finding agreement about the = relative importance of factors.=20 Jari From mbeaulieu@amsl.com Thu Feb 28 14:04:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8776721F88ED for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uk5dShTeTV7X for <86attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C9521F88C1 for <86attendees@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CBC12426F; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f1Mxrnw118OB; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from new-host.home (pool-71-163-123-187.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.123.187]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 16013124264; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:04:25 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Marcia Beaulieu In-Reply-To: <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 17:04:23 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <512F5E2D.9080801@ericsson.com> <512F7002.9060008@ericsson.com> <338AD5DC-3E21-45BF-8FBE-5572538514A4@amsl.com> To: Balazs Lengyel X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: 86attendees@ietf.org Subject: Re: [86attendees] Official backup hotel X-BeenThere: 86attendees@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: <86attendees.ietf.org> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:04:27 -0000 Hi Balazs, I spoke with our contact at the Holiday Inn and she indicated that there = are sidewalks the whole way between the two properties and it can be = walked within 20-30 minutes. I am working with the hotel the schedule for the shuttle service they = are providing between the Holiday Inn and the Caribe Royale. As soon as = that is finalized we will post the times. Thanks, Marcia On Feb 28, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: > Hi Balazs, >=20 > I will check to see if it is feasible to walk! >=20 > Marcia >=20 > On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:56 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >=20 >> Hello, >> Is it possible to walk from the backup hotel to the main venue? The = distance 2-3 kilometers is not an issue, sidewalks etc. might be. >> regards balazs >>=20 >> On 2013-02-28 15:48, Marcia Beaulieu wrote: >>> Hi Balazs, >>>=20 >>> Currently there are 39 reservations from the IETF group staying at = the Holiday Inn. >>>=20 >>> There is an Applebee's that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner, for = more information, please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/dining >>>=20 >>> Regarding the schedule for the complimentary round-trip, please = check with the hotel when you check in. The schedule will depend on how = many IETF attendees are staying at the Holiday Inn. >>>=20 >>> To get to the hotel, you can take a taxi. For more information, = please see: = http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/holidayinnresorts/hotels/us/en/orlando/disbv/= hoteldetail/directions >>>=20 >>> If I am able to get more information, I will forward that to you. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Marcia >>>=20 >>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hello, >>>> Anyone staying at the official overflow hotel? >>>> How do you get there from the airport? >>>> What kind of food is available there? >>>> Any shuttles there? >>>> Do we know the schedule for the complimentary round-trip shuttle to = the Caribe Royal? >>>> Balazs >>>>=20 >>>> --=20 >>>> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >>>> System Manager >>>> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >>>> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> 86attendees mailing list >>>> 86attendees@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >>>>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > 86attendees mailing list > 86attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/86attendees >=20