From nobody Sat May 1 01:01:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9663A0835; Sat, 1 May 2021 01:01:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.785 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.785 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MAY_BE_FORGED=2.7, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hhJ678BAS4ZU; Sat, 1 May 2021 01:01:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.iomartmail.com (mta5.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D597A3A0827; Sat, 1 May 2021 01:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta5.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 14180wmv027343; Sat, 1 May 2021 09:00:58 +0100 Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9649C22052; Sat, 1 May 2021 09:00:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.249]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 885422204E; Sat, 1 May 2021 09:00:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (74.197.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net [81.174.197.74] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 14180vQK020190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 1 May 2021 09:00:58 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Ravi Singh'" , , Cc: , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 09:00:58 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <01db01d73e60$1f1aedc0$5d50c940$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DC_01D73E68.80DF55C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQE7mBtQB3nYp/Vokiljzq0s3n5GdawFj9Qg Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 81.174.197.74 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-26124.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--16.781-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--16.781-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-26124.006 X-TMASE-Result: 10--16.781000-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 9vvqFUF7IWmWfDtBOz4q22mpWpGzPzJdaMmm586o4gDPlmI4N1s8ilVx c/d4wt8XQ+qFfSnBhruH7/YaXrc5rF6roberhuTglVHM/F6YkvSpvf+jmz45w56+KClOpyujdAl mC9v1KauKLpFrWkyjfvNrZv9cFWGfQpm8rLhVqkN7396uJNSvqinsJ9MqQSOlWGzy6KaAc0KB+d uJcV6+5X4fsU2Mo5fdAJ42yu0exwIoEmCdDOvToeUKNN5hHcABrFP4l9ANsI+O9vLIatD3yMkZb L61I/L0CuMeNI8ov5dJpV9rHFX3j7MwnTKgkbsOwbRQ2BpmliraCn4DqCiXNrYzXCxJu2uR90ib xL4bz6BrlDI4zvG/OgCHPJ7UNtV51LFdtmiebE6A3KVVsj8QDKgJ/sh288AnGHWakJc1ULz6p1j lhLAJAlWeA27U+g5dIw6Kr6crgUxhTSvDZHacphz2MDiYujy5EsGpOXjV8vtMvtSjCgVE+gSTtQ 0wIxotdH2PU6szI3OJ6uGtPJgUD0UuXkWTSi/RT7O/YHJhINAFeeAjqMW+lxXVi8DrxXDvbVsEF Jqff8nvp8GuZhjBuTsOdvA5nu/wA7dimDbca7izRPQ8T4oe5bPksiHb4g58AUYifayLzo/hry2N wTSXHIFeREEb0o7aFABeLgZr0ZEfE8yM4pjsD4MbH85DUZXyAzmRhRrMoRWw7M6dyuYKgyWCaJn oH28H1WAjPpJPzwS4pUlnzj5z4aioecx+vLoa1XHj0GPcmF0= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-10.txt X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 08:01:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01D73E68.80DF55C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ravi, =20 Thanks for taking the time and providing your review. =20 Best, Adrian =20 From: Ravi Singh =20 Sent: 01 May 2021 07:42 To: bess-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway@ietf.org Cc: bess@ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org Subject: RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-10.txt =20 Hello I have been selected to do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D = review of this draft. draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway The routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair, = perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is = submitted for publication to the IESG. The early review can be performed = at any time during the draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group = document. The purpose of the early review depends on the stage that the = document has reached. =20 Document: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-10.txt Reviewer: Ravi Singh Review Date: 04/30/2021 Intended Status: Standards Track Summary: * No issues found. This documents is ready to proceed to the IESG. =20 Regards Ravi =20 ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01D73E68.80DF55C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Ravi,

 

Thanks for = taking the time and providing your review.

 

Best,

Adrian

 

From: Ravi Singh = <ravi.singh.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: 01 May 2021 = 07:42
To: bess-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway@ietf.org
Cc: bess@ietf.org; = rtg-dir@ietf.org
Subject: RtgDir Early review: = draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-10.txt

 

H= ello

I= have been selected to do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D = review of this draft.

draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway

T= he routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair, = perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is = submitted for publication to the IESG. The early review can be performed = at any time during the draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group = document. The purpose of the early review depends on the stage that the = document has reached.

 

Document: draft-ietf-bess-datacenter-gateway-10.txt
Reviewer: Ravi = Singh
Review = Date: 04/30/2021
Intended Status: Standards = Track



Summary:

  • No issues found. This documents is ready to proceed to = the IESG.

 

Regards

Ravi

 

------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01D73E68.80DF55C0-- From nobody Mon May 3 00:21:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D203A0D5D for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 00:21:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QZFtj-kmlC82 for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 00:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ej1-x636.google.com (mail-ej1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 285FB3A0D5A for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 00:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x636.google.com with SMTP id gx5so6346168ejb.11 for ; Mon, 03 May 2021 00:21:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:thread-index :content-language; bh=pMmUx72lHfUspfi4/ehO2ITfo3o1pOClQvEbH3HaT80=; b=Hp4RynTOQwgJIOYtfaiBP/qOQ6rCta65byWuACtQrmUBwsSxp9TOUq3+5lysnoCJt4 pnQLZKIEM4cRfZdzPq1/IYbVaVFodsi4QconW1X0LYPlRu/F2xE6hJ6dhiMtsABCYc7/ sIocYXvt8NAQLGm2jt1F2zdidhE87vmPBSEGKdzVzR+HJlA8EsIcpqCUwiHN0HX3rQg2 zOKbDCnOQ74PjZB3uGNYGBytCR82PW7YIH03eugd/hKLKLqgIZb+5p7NZIgxOfuCDLMp SWVAiX88H8uctM2s+Xd6PVJvBcuDKMvn8Xs/LMe8SkoacbC2UCMbXCIxoyp17PbFJCwZ ucFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=pMmUx72lHfUspfi4/ehO2ITfo3o1pOClQvEbH3HaT80=; b=e27AvxOV3O2WjWRvhWVGEFo0hu6wGDKsab9kMAneBGZHlQ1sHS2L8vgFvlGUPN73FT rcvvt1BDXbIs6jiFZhVi9rAXJHU2vSKIKf4fbWOWDQlWRCWaaX+MdUAoanENYtxElirr wzjNiSaxLhCRtdMzhrjVPoa+gfLwLtbMvqEsNPkPK4zpapmKql5Ew4+GrnOd63OxPNOr jSsyVujH12nLmAqL/WywS/frtiQALLMu7O7rs7jZp6pvtYo+zsgh7NVOQ1cytcVAWMR0 VUJp9XqMxMsbwHx8JZVO1O3xhUZ1VqYkulmW1L3yjh//Nq0sm/O6Txfc5Wf28XT40aKc 0hPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531yl5XeQ09BGIIvf5gD2JvfFToCcfMSoZOyIzxegtVIS5ELxlLx 4paYGIPfpXKU9TNcu2Z5d7Y2oqchwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwEtt0ywukif8qkbtKFwA1jsiHi2XcQ/2Zj+uONV6BiJ+tX9qjelJO4qeNvCaWUry9+0k8PTQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:e118:: with SMTP id gj24mr15557843ejb.205.1620026460562; Mon, 03 May 2021 00:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SLITKOWS3YYU6 ([173.38.220.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id aj8sm10582423ejc.64.2021.05.03.00.20.59 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 May 2021 00:21:00 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 09:20:58 +0200 Message-ID: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_030D_01D73FFD.A186A2B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2J0/mGOvKSC6oOVSo+WO3zQ== Content-Language: fr Archived-At: Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 07:21:11 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_030D_01D73FFD.A186A2B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ------=_NextPart_000_030D_01D73FFD.A186A2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi =
WG,
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
We got =
final updates from authors on =
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.
 <=
/o:p>
I'm opening =
a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) =
to
get any =
last comments before moving to the next =
step.
However, =
the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and =
PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts =
are ready.
 <=
/o:p>
 =
Feel free =
to send comments to the list before next =
Monday.
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
Thanks,=
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
Stephane
 <=
/o:p>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 <= /o:p>
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>

 

------=_NextPart_000_030D_01D73FFD.A186A2B0-- From nobody Mon May 3 01:03:52 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietf.org Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193EB3A1051; Mon, 3 May 2021 01:03:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bess@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bess@ietf.org Message-ID: <162002902704.9987.4311702082506067543@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 01:03:47 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l2gw-proto-00.txt X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 08:03:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF. Title : EVPN Multi-Homing Mechanism for Layer-2 Gateway Protocols Authors : Patrice Brissette Ali Sajassi Luc Andre Burdet Daniel Voyer Filename : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l2gw-proto-00.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2021-04-27 Abstract: The existing EVPN multi-homing load-balancing modes defined are Single-Active and All-Active. Neither of these multi-homing mechanisms adequately represent ethernet-segments facing access networks with Layer-2 Gateway protocols such as G.8032, (M)STP, REP, MPLS-TP, etc. These loop-preventing Layer-2 protocols require a new multi-homing mechanism defined in this draft. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l2gw-proto/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l2gw-proto-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-l2gw-proto-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 3 02:20:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBE23A1412 for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 02:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.116 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.116 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7fpIWl3lFcD for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 02:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D34353A143B for ; Mon, 3 May 2021 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FYcrd5XM4z7vrq; Mon, 3 May 2021 11:20:17 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1620033617; bh=pl9lkT9+fuucqC4QS5Q0hZXWW+eGNmZOQHdyHUJLkSo=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=NFJIu0a6mPEB2EF0FjKJ3+khotGGF1rJ6iuHXkadvnj7t9Gpta7UD0FTBYVLrKbSm Lqa3m+xWXBCAgAi15SPo7TlctHk19zI/dGYe/rQ8jhqpSALIYkpPqueJqVqaNt2xkD l8+K5drrAK3SR3VYlrQc1K19yrjv0FQZ9DJ2Q0M/7uSiPkdAFiWmgwowkSpXDeaaTu gGS57735i3/g0vrDOqxqj45rbD6mrwDGDghe8Cnss189lcOv5Uxuz83Dtm/bq+MrAm GpFUrKr81BVDzZ+kZVCt4KVMKbc99AK/Bj+nE20Yr4Cd0DBHlgJTkmamEUYDp/E60Z OLjJMXCDxPshw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.76]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FYcrd4Wh2zCqkw; Mon, 3 May 2021 11:20:17 +0200 (CEST) From: To: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2J0/mGOvKSC6oOVSo+WO3zQADkP0A Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 09:20:16 +0000 Message-ID: <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00DOPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 09:20:25 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00DOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.= com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00DOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed the = discussions on this document, but I’ll nonetheless raise one point  regarding th= e bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-BW] = been moved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?

- A new EVPN Link Bandwi= dth extended community is defined, but I could not find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-= BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?

- [BGP-LINK-BW] advertis= es the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community b= e also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to avoid misleading the reader= s could the examples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

- 10 years ago or so, I = had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 m= ajor implementation had implemented and deployed “bytes per second= 221; as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented and depl= oyed “bits per second” which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change = its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change with the= mselves. What’s the status on this? Could we have an implementation s= tatus on this?

 =

Thanks=

Regards,

--Bruno

 =

 =

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmai= l.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,<=
/o:p>
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
We got final=
 updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.=
 <=
/o:p>
I'm opening =
a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to
get any last=
 comments before moving to the next step.
However, the=
 document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-D=
F, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready.
 <=
/o:p>
 =
Feel free to=
 send comments to the list before next Monday.
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
Thanks,=
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>
Stephane
 <=
/o:p>
https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 <=
/o:p>
 <=
/o:p>
 =
 <=
/o:p>

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR05MB7187 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: kH3FTw6fYWYonr960njGrqsidOb4TjDA X-Proofpoint-GUID: kH3FTw6fYWYonr960njGrqsidOb4TjDA X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-05-03_16:2021-05-03, 2021-05-03 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105030123 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] Cross WG review request for draft-ietf-bier-evpn X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 18:39:31 -0000 --_000_MN2PR05MB5981040C08EF7AD4B4587CA6D45B9MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jingrong, WG, I somehow missed this email. Sorry for replying late. Please see zzh> below. From: BESS On Behalf Of Xiejingrong (Jingrong) Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 3:20 AM To: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] Cross WG review request for draft-ietf-bier-evpn [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi, I have some comments on this draft. 1. There are 3 different encapsulations VXLAN/NVGRE/GENEVE defined in this = draft, but it is not clear if there is a mandatory one for interoperable i= mplementation, or all are mandatory ? Zzh> For a particular deployment, only one is needed - whichever one that i= s used for (known) unicast. The effort to make BIER-EVPN "unified" with Unicast-EVPN (by using 3 BIER p= roto values) doesn't seem to be convenient: 1) For implementation, the existing NVO3 VXLAN/NVGRE/GENEVE forwarding modu= le (HW or SW) doesn't help much because the major gap is BIER. 2) For trouble-shooting like offline LAN analyzing (rfc8279), the existing = NVO3 VXLAN/NVGRE/GENEVE header doesn't help much because the major part is = BIER. >From my point of view, one uniform encapsulation is better because it is us= ed for one single purpose - to distinguish the tenant and still keep aligne= d with NVO3 style where "VNI" is used. Zzh> From operational point of view, if a customer uses VXLAN for unicast, = it does not make sense if he is forced to use NVGRE/GENEVE as BIER payload? 2. In section 2.1: A well-known IP multicast address (to be assigned by IANA) is used= as the destination address and the egress PEs MUST be set up to receive and process packets addressed to the address. It is not clear what are the "set up" and "process" implying. For example: 1) For implementation, does the "set up" mean an MFIB entry populated into = forwarding table ? A packet with well-known IP multicast address as destina= tion address (like 224.0.0.1) is usually sent to CPU in a multicast router = in my opinion. Zzh> 224.0.0.1 is a good example for what "set up" and "processing" means -= the router is prepared to process packets addressed to the well-know addre= ss. Whether it is sent to CPU for processing is a local implementation deta= il - a sane/normal implementation would handle it in fast path but the spec= does not have to mandate that. 2) For error-handling, how to "process" if the TTL/Hop limit field in the I= P header is 0/1/254/255 ? Zzh> This is like typical TTL handling for VPN/EVPN. For example, in case o= f VPN/EVPN-MPLS, how the TTL field is set and processed for the tunnel labe= l and VPN/BD label. Here the tunnel label's TTL field is the BIER TTL and t= he VPN/BD label's TTL is the IP header TTL. Neither RFC 7432 nor RFC 8556 h= as text about it, and we don't need text here either. >From my point of view, the cost to support BIER-PHP this way is fairly high= . I am not sure if some words like "recommend" or "not recommend" can help = to do the trade-off for implementation/deployment. Zzh> Perhaps that trade-off discussion should happen in the PHP spec? Zzh> Thanks! Zzh> Jeffrey Thanks Jingrong From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.= com Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 2:47 PM To: bess@ietf.org Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [bess] Cross WG review request for draft-ietf-bier-evpn HI folks, The BIER WG is in the last mile of review for draft-ietf-bier-evpn and requ= ests our review on the document before progressing further. Please have a deep look at it and provide your feedback or concerns. Please close the review by April 20th. Thanks in advance, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-evpn/ Juniper Business Use Only --_000_MN2PR05MB5981040C08EF7AD4B4587CA6D45B9MN2PR05MB5981namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jingrong, WG,

 

I somehow missed this email. Sorry for replying = late.

 

Please see zzh> below.

 

From:<= /span> BESS <bess-bounces= @ietf.org> On Behalf Of Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 3:20 AM
To: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] Cross WG review request for draft-ietf-bier-evpn=

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",sans-serif;colo= r:black;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">[External Email. Be cautious of content= ]

&nbs= p;

Hi,

 

I have some comments on this draft.=

 

1. There are 3 different encapsulations VXLAN/NVGRE/G= ENEVE defined in this draft, but it is not clear if there is a mandatory on= e for  interoperable implementation, or all are mandatory ?

 

Zzh> For a particular deployment, only one is= needed – whichever one that is used for (known) unicast.<= /span>

 

The effort to make BIER-EVPN “unified” wi= th Unicast-EVPN (by using 3 BIER proto values) doesn’t seem to be con= venient:

1) For implementation, the existing NVO3 VXLAN/NVGRE/= GENEVE forwarding module (HW or SW) doesn’t help much because the maj= or gap is BIER.

2) For trouble-shooting like offline LAN analyzing (r= fc8279), the existing NVO3 VXLAN/NVGRE/GENEVE header doesn’t help muc= h because the major part is BIER.

 

From my point of view, one uniform encapsulation is b= etter because it is used for one single purpose – to distinguish the = tenant and still keep aligned with NVO3 style where “VNI” is used.

 

Zzh> From operational point of view, if a cus= tomer uses VXLAN for unicast, it does not make sense if he is forced to use= NVGRE/GENEVE as BIER payload?

 

2. In section 2.1:

         A we= ll-known IP multicast address (to be assigned by IANA) is used as

the destination address and the egress PEs MUST be se= t up to receive

and process packets addressed to the address.

 

It is not clear what are the “set up” and= “process” implying. For example:

1) For implementation, does the “set up” = mean an MFIB entry populated into forwarding table ? A packet with well-kno= wn IP multicast address as destination address (like 224.0.0.1) is usually sent to CPU in a multicast router in my opinion.

 

Zzh> 224.0.0.1 is a good example for what = 220;set up” and “processing” means – the router is = prepared to process packets addressed to the well-know address. Whether it = is sent to CPU for processing is a local implementation detail - a sane/normal imp= lementation would handle it in fast path but the spec does not have to mand= ate that.

 

2) For error-handling, how to “process” i= f the TTL/Hop limit field in the IP header is 0/1/254/255 ?

 

Zzh> This is like typical TTL handling for VP= N/EVPN. For example, in case of VPN/EVPN-MPLS, how the TTL field is set and= processed for the tunnel label and VPN/BD label. Here the tunnel label’s TTL field is the BIER TTL and the VPN/BD lab= el’s TTL is the IP header TTL. Neither RFC 7432 nor RFC 8556 has text= about it, and we don’t need text here either.

 

From my point of view, the cost to support BIER-PHP t= his way is fairly high. I am not sure if some words like “recommend&#= 8221; or “not recommend” can help to do the trade-off for implementation/deployment.

 

Zzh> Perhaps that trade-off discussion should happen in the PHP = spec?

Zzh> Thanks!

Zzh> Jeffrey

 

Thanks

Jingrong

 

 

From:<= /span> BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.iet= f@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 2:47 PM
To: bess@ietf.org
Cc: bess-chairs@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] Cross WG review request for draft-ietf-bier-evpn

 

HI folks,

 

The BIER WG is in the last mile of review for draft-= ietf-bier-evpn and requests our review on the document before progressing f= urther.

Please have a deep look at it and provide your feedb= ack or concerns.

 

Please close the review by April 20th.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

Stephane

 

https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-ietf-bier-evpn/

 


Juniper Business Use Only

--_000_MN2PR05MB5981040C08EF7AD4B4587CA6D45B9MN2PR05MB5981namp_-- From nobody Wed May 5 22:27:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietf.org Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2793A0CD6; Wed, 5 May 2021 22:27:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bess@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bess@ietf.org Message-ID: <162027886263.15946.15077984804558286508@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 22:27:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-09.txt X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 05:27:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF. Title : Weighted Multi-Path Procedures for EVPN All-Active Multi-Homing Authors : Neeraj Malhotra Ali Sajassi Jorge Rabadan John Drake Avinash Lingala Samir Thoria Filename : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-09.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2021-05-05 Abstract: In an EVPN-IRB based network overlay, EVPN all-active multi-homing enables multi-homing for a CE device connected to two or more PEs via a LAG, such that bridged and routed traffic from remote PEs can be equally load balanced (ECMPed) across the multi-homing PEs. This document defines extensions to EVPN procedures to optimally handle unequal access bandwidth distribution across a set of multi-homing PEs in order to: o provide greater flexibility, with respect to adding or removing individual PE-CE links within the access LAG. o handle PE-CE LAG member link failures that can result in unequal PE-CE access bandwidth across a set of multi-homing PEs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 5 22:40:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietf.org Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A1B3A0DB5; Wed, 5 May 2021 22:40:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: bess@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.28.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: bess@ietf.org Message-ID: <162027960879.7637.15383710480041563787@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 22:40:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [bess] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-10.txt X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 05:40:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the BGP Enabled ServiceS WG of the IETF. Title : Weighted Multi-Path Procedures for EVPN All-Active Multi-Homing Authors : Neeraj Malhotra Ali Sajassi Jorge Rabadan John Drake Avinash Lingala Samir Thoria Filename : draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-10.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2021-05-05 Abstract: In an EVPN-IRB based network overlay, EVPN all-active multi-homing enables multi-homing for a CE device connected to two or more PEs via a LAG, such that bridged and routed traffic from remote PEs can be equally load balanced (ECMPed) across the multi-homing PEs. This document defines extensions to EVPN procedures to optimally handle unequal access bandwidth distribution across a set of multi-homing PEs in order to: o provide greater flexibility, with respect to adding or removing individual PE-CE links within the access LAG. o handle PE-CE LAG member link failures that can result in unequal PE-CE access bandwidth across a set of multi-homing PEs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 5 22:41:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E863A0DC0 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 22:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PZzJHBDOMhUQ for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 22:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe34.google.com (mail-vs1-xe34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F94F3A0FF1 for ; Wed, 5 May 2021 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe34.google.com with SMTP id 66so2335010vsk.9 for ; Wed, 05 May 2021 22:41:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bCgb4/3H80MfJidwi3YqT8fxW7wee5k6UyQT+MrEZno=; b=HELQCaFNwP1PJw2hqg74g80pBjFz3x/JL0zDkBaVgihuVYvw3Nxw90xHpRK9MZ/g97 Iu+tPJUo1T6PV/bdGPHXZ5oBrnexYYRlimoET4RJ0lUHj/uFXnH99/g9qEVFkwZlBLhE 9Tqnld2wcwj/9FpoTcLLUL4whoZvb5qnKMgT9OXdqFYWhwIfkuVCfkbCzaQ0vIMI/onU wzjSK2nRj+yLjnt6wXjTeGjWNqWOCym/qrvMXfO/yiQj8Zz7IS9N8Eq18wiAxIXoyl2F b52gkevIakmgVJC/A26WGiAPbcgXXSCmxjZTjZmHqGAqnggLB1Tit0vyQeVu405vWoiz l/uA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bCgb4/3H80MfJidwi3YqT8fxW7wee5k6UyQT+MrEZno=; b=ohnnnKCNFaUhCszweOcw5Sh29YNr6/JA8hKNBKetzqjLmFC5omc7/TTq1/KIrPAYNb ObhVWU4IPT21ghqatmm7jvnp70Bkv3CCUhiv51jIm4jinNWIq+JqMeB9jIDGrmcjnDpv Y3L24mUhusrYGQid8667UKnDpp49wxxxFc2pCy1Illck3D1ZVc53xdNX6cTaQp5Y7n29 XwGYr7x7Fwbt6c/1vIizwkmJRL9NkFGnR2j1l1zY962kPYNS8GVu7+asMMlQRuHCWUL3 669DOmJLd8sM/ER2HH2QWbxXT+dfovLa8NDkK9+xfmeEiXfmyw5ptNUxcKR6ghiwu0hJ is6A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/YHlOs1Qp4rRUdruCi4lyybql98Gq1YEdR/lpaV40QV3zhOyF 6mFc/Zq38dFCR/8D/+IIrkbZkPhYle2v5m5G+z8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJym9ifN09w6Vk+sHhu9XzSVHe2tNFiGNdTCP8fbsbZbPRQWxuewey+uEr25sEk5icPGUGFzLp3iyoz4M8kio/s= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:31ae:: with SMTP id d14mr1805288vsh.58.1620279667025; Wed, 05 May 2021 22:41:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Neeraj Malhotra Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 22:40:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fd6a9705c1a2c13b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 05:41:24 -0000 --000000000000fd6a9705c1a2c13b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing your comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM wrote: > Hi St=C3=A9phane, authors, > > > > I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I=E2=80=99ll no= netheless > raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than > sorry). > > - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its > reading seem mandatory? > [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was intended). > - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could no= t > find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as > [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? > [NM]: clarified in section 4. > - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per > second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community = be > also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). > Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the > correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) > [NM]: done. > - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between > bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 > major implementation had implemented and deployed =E2=80=9Cbytes per seco= nd=E2=80=9D as per > the spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed =E2= =80=9Cbits > per second=E2=80=9D which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given th= e > deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be= a > non-backward compatible change with themselves. What=E2=80=99s the status= on this? > Could we have an implementation status on this? > [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. > > > Thanks > > Regards, > > --Bruno > > > > > > *From**:* BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of * > slitkows.ietf@gmail.com > *Sent:* Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM > *To:* bess@ietf.org > *Subject:* [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb > > > > Hi WG, > > > > > > We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. > > > > I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to > > get any last comments before moving to the next step. > > However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PE= R-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are = ready. > > > > Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Stephane > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess > --000000000000fd6a9705c1a2c13b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruno,
=

Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised th= e draft addressing your comments.=C2=A0

More inlin= e.

Thanks,
Neer= aj

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex">

Hi St=C3=A9phan= e, authors,

=C2=A0

= I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I=E2=80=99ll none= theless raise one point =C2=A0regarding the bandwidth community (bett= er safe than sorry).

= - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?


=
[NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections th= at has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK= -BW] is purely informational (as was intended).
=C2=A0

= - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-= BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?

=

[NM]: clarified in section 4.
= =C2=A0

= - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community b= e also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to= avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)


[NM]: done.
=C2=A0

<= span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">

= - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 m= ajor implementation had implemented and deployed =E2=80=9Cbytes per second= =E2=80=9D as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented and= deployed =E2=80=9Cbits per second=E2=80=9D which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change = its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change with the= mselves. What=E2=80=99s the status on this? Could we have an implementation= status on this?


[NM= ]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment.
=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

= Thanks

= Regards,

= --Bruno

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

<= b>From: BESS [mailto:be= ss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

=C2=A0

Hi WG,
=C2=A0
 
=C2=A0
We got final updates from =
authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.
=C2=A0
I'm opening a new shor=
t Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to
get any last comments befo=
re moving to the next step.
However, the document havi=
ng normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft w=
ill not be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready.<=
/pre>
=C2=A0
 
Feel free to send comments=
 to the list before next Monday.
=C2=A0
 
=C2=A0
Thanks,
=C2=A0
 
=C2=A0
Stephane
=C2=A0
https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
 
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
--000000000000fd6a9705c1a2c13b-- From nobody Thu May 6 01:03:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EC33A1713 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 01:03:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nPFN-Pvz6_Ba for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 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<28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3EOPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 08:03:51 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3EOPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTmVlcmFqLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIG15IGNvbW1lbnRzLg0KTXVjaCBi 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i/sV8NgNo8QG8xoxEtMlupOTKmTTMlR01yu/uF8B/X8TAFFji3nlw3ywQeTCPNh5l6Z0gYiyMzZddalfWyidbw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR08MB5046 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 08:36:06 -0000 --_000_BY3PR08MB7060B25F28D6D131C162F297F7589BY3PR08MB7060namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruno, Thanks for your comments. About the first point, we do have use cases where the bandwidth is not what= we want to encode in the EC but rather a generalized weight that is derive= d from the link count, logical weight or simply a configured value. Among t= he co-authors we also discussed the possibility of defining two ECs: one fo= r BW and one for a generalized-weight, so that the remote PE can catch if t= he multi-homed PEs were indeed using the same meaning of the weight. Howeve= r, we thought it was easier/simpler to use a generalized value in a single = EC sub-type, and add the sentence below. The sentence can be modified/fixed. But the gist is that the multi-homed PE= s may support multiple meanings for the weight (BW, link-count, etc), but a= t least one of those MUST be common across all PEs and the multi-homed rout= es must use it consistently. Would it be enough if we fix it? About existing implementations, a new EVPN sub-type was defined only a coup= le of revisions ago, where, before, the existing non-transitive link BW EC = was used, so there=92s been some churn in the use of the EC anyway. I think= it is important to get it as soon as possible, but get it right rather tha= n finding gaps later once the document is done. But let us know your though= ts too. Thank you. Jorge From: BESS on behalf of bruno.decraene@orange.com <= bruno.decraene@orange.com> Date: Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com , bess@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I=92d prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency= in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least f= or consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not= subjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think = he will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I=92ll nonetheles= s raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorr= y). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed =93bytes per second=94 as per = the spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed =93bits= per second=94 which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deplo= yments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-= backward compatible change with themselves. What=92s the status on this? Co= uld we have an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BY3PR08MB7060B25F28D6D131C162F297F7589BY3PR08MB7060namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruno,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

About the first point, we do have use cases where the bandwidth is not wh= at we want to encode in the EC but rather a generalized weight that is deri= ved from the link count, logical weight or simply a configured value. Among the co-authors we also discussed the p= ossibility of defining two ECs: one for BW and one for a generalized-weight= , so that the remote PE can catch if the multi-homed PEs were indeed using = the same meaning of the weight. However, we thought it was easier/simpler to use a generalized value in a = single EC sub-type, and add the sentence below.

 

The sentence can be modified/fixed. But the gist is that the multi-homed = PEs may support multiple meanings for the weight (BW, link-count, etc), but= at least one of those MUST be common across all PEs and the multi-homed routes must use it consistently. Would = it be enough if we fix it?

 

About existing implementations, a new EVPN sub-type was defined only a co= uple of revisions ago, where, before, the existing non-transitive link BW E= C was used, so there=92s been some churn in the use of the EC anyway. I think it is important to get it as soon as = possible, but get it right rather than finding gaps later once the document= is done. But let us know your thoughts too.

 

Thank you.

Jorge

 

 

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of bruno.decraene@orange.com = <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Date: Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com <slitkows.ietf@gmail.com>, bess@ie= tf.org <bess@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

Hi Neeraj,

 

Thanks for considering my comments.

Much better from my perspective. Thank you.

 

I have two comments on the changes:

- Regarding deployments

=A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way t= o detect which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while some other PE could advertise a general weig= ht. I understand that both works, but to me there is a significant risk of = issues over time or between domain/SP. I=92d prefer that you only chose one= in order to favour consistency in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for = consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not su= bjective)  (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I thin= k he will figure out by himself, that it can do so).

If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the t= wo below sentences:

An implementat= ion may support one or more of the above ways of

   e= ncoding the value.  Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   v= alue across all PEs in an ethernet segment.

Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled= if the first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options, or one specifically defined.<= /p>

 

- Regarding existing implementations:

previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of t= he EVPN EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community = hence encoded in IEEE floating point format. Latest version of the draft de= fines it in unsigned integer. Integer looks good to me, but for an existing= implementation this may be seen as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there ar= e no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also expre= ss the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no prefe= rence). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be a risk of existing implementat= ions hence incompatible change. BTW the codepoint is squatted even though t= he registry is FCFS hence easy to request.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

 

From= : Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the rev= iew comments. We have revised the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.=

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at = 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com> wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed the discus= sions on this document, but I=92ll nonetheless raise one point  regard= ing the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been m= oved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?

 

[NM]: There was a lefto= ver reference to this in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use= new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational= (as was intended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Bandwidth ex= tended community is defined, but I could not find its specification. I gues= s that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this = be explicitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in sect= ion 4.

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the= bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit of the n= ew EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Espe= cially give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples u= se the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

 

[NM]: done.<= /p>

 

- 10 years ago or so, I had ra= ised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] = in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemente= d and deployed =93bytes per second=94 as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed = =93bits per second=94 which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given th= e deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be= a non-backward compatible change with themselves. What=92s the status on this? Could we have an implementation s= tatus on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this= information. Perhaps someone else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:b= ess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,
 
 
 
We got final updates from author=
s on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.
 
I'm opening a new short Working =
Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to
get any last comments before mov=
ing to the next step.
However, the document having nor=
mative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will no=
t be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready.
 
 
Feel free to send comments to th=
e list before next Monday.
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
Stephane
 
https://dat=
atracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 
 
 
 

 

_________________________________________=
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce=
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This message and its attachments may cont=
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opied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error,=
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As emails may be altered, Orange is not l=
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--_000_BY3PR08MB7060B25F28D6D131C162F297F7589BY3PR08MB7060namp_-- From nobody Thu May 6 05:46:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E32923A210F for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 05:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DPkpE8JpO7WG for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 05:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D67053A210C for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 05:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FbYGc5dZrzyfK; Thu, 6 May 2021 14:46:00 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1620305160; bh=2GGPJhIiK4ueltM9PTV0abaVuLePfHKHxXnaIDfM47M=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=vFqtksoQvdnJp/PgEAJM9Jwpx9ESZ9bN1VCHJQnmELwYMtL4ogO074D6AGxCMWuZg MI8Y106ZHN6LPnMCl3ROks9W8XfefqmES5wQIoKIrx96ZR70RckNTVQVcsy3+xs7r2 OLFzzcQoYnadzseZipMTZvgJNe7JTCF57EM9Gdf2zcVoqaDvtiLr74rGp6Q0ybyZBu mB9OCO6qs/LDPDubyxnK0lbEZLG9vddEhuiNQzQNu8+KndhjBQV4OgKTp/aNAvPqJb wV5l6GxOYy4jZsRofhy0gJXdgWZkLhxsMoBXfyAFyhUV4jAZYKNXu8VhmRZwulgQzO ZfKewdC8UkCKg== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.29]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FbYGc4fJHz1xpC; Thu, 6 May 2021 14:46:00 +0200 (CEST) From: To: "Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)" , Neeraj Malhotra CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2/leljGzYlEWOvsee2GV03QADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAAhgbcAAjjRPA= Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 12:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <5890_1620305160_6093E508_5890_360_9_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86464@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> , <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86464OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 12:46:09 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86464OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jorge, Thanks for the feedback. Regarding the first point, I can live with the current text. But I think I = would prefer that the text favour one option, and leave it to the responsib= ility of the SP for others usages. E.g. OLD: EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community value field is to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned integer that may be set to: o total bandwidth of PE's all physical links in an ethernet segment, expressed in bytes/sec. o or a generalized weight that may be set to link count, locally configured weight, or a value computed based on an attribute other than link bandwidth. An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Procedures related to signaling and handling of this extended community defined in this document use "total bandwidth in bytes/sec" encoding as an example to illustrate its usage. NEW: EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community value field is to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned integer representing total bandwidth of PE's all p= hysical links in an ethernet segment, expressed in bytes/sec. Note however that the load balancing algorithm defines in this document use= s ratio of Link Bandwidths hence the operator may choose a different unit o= r use the community as a generalized weight that may be set to link count, locally configured weight, or a value computed based on an attribute other than link bandwidth. In such case, the operator MUST ensure consisten= t usage of the unit across all PEs in an ethernet segment. This may involve multiple routing do= mains/Autonomous Systems. But I leave this to you. Thanks, --Bruno From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) [mailto:jorge.rabadan@nokia= .com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:36 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN ; Neeraj Malhotra Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Thanks for your comments. About the first point, we do have use cases where the bandwidth is not what= we want to encode in the EC but rather a generalized weight that is derive= d from the link count, logical weight or simply a configured value. Among t= he co-authors we also discussed the possibility of defining two ECs: one fo= r BW and one for a generalized-weight, so that the remote PE can catch if t= he multi-homed PEs were indeed using the same meaning of the weight. Howeve= r, we thought it was easier/simpler to use a generalized value in a single = EC sub-type, and add the sentence below. The sentence can be modified/fixed. But the gist is that the multi-homed PE= s may support multiple meanings for the weight (BW, link-count, etc), but a= t least one of those MUST be common across all PEs and the multi-homed rout= es must use it consistently. Would it be enough if we fix it? About existing implementations, a new EVPN sub-type was defined only a coup= le of revisions ago, where, before, the existing non-transitive link BW EC = was used, so there's been some churn in the use of the EC anyway. I think i= t is important to get it as soon as possible, but get it right rather than = finding gaps later once the document is done. But let us know your thoughts= too. Thank you. Jorge From: BESS > on behalf = of bruno.decraene@orange.com > Date: Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 10:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com >, bess@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86464OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jorge,

 

Thanks= for the feedback.

 

Regarding the first point, I can live with the current text. But I think I would prefer that the text favour one option, and leav= e it to the responsibility of the SP for others usages. E.g.

 

OLD:

EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community value field is to be treated

   as a 6 octet unsigned integer that may be set to:<= /p>

 

   o  total bandwidth of P= E's all physical links in an ethernet segment,

      expressed in bytes/sec.

 

   o  or a generalized wei= ght that may be set to link count, locally

      configured weight, or a value computed based on an attribute other

      than link bandwidth.

 

   An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of<= /o:p>

   encoding the value.  Op= erator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value across all PEs in an ethernet se= gment.  Procedures related to

   signaling and handling of this extende= d community defined in this

   document use "total bandwidth in bytes/sec" encoding as an= example to

   illustrate its usage.

 

NEW:

   EVPN Link Bandwidth Extended Community value field is to be treated<= o:p>

   as a 6 octet unsigned integer representing total bandwidth of PE's a= ll physical links in an ethernet segment,

      expressed in bytes/sec.

 

Note however that the load balancing algorithm defines in this document uses ratio of Link Bandwidths hence the operator may choo= se a different unit or use the community as

    a genera= lized weight that may be set to link count, locally

      configured weight, or a value computed based on an attribute other

      than link bandwidth. In such case, the operator MUST ensure consiste= nt usage of the unit

across all PEs in an ethernet segment. This may involve multiple r= outing domains/Autonomous Systems.

 

 

But I leave this to you.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

From: Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View) [ma= ilto:jorge.rabadan@nokia.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:36 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>; Neeraj= Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

About the first point, we do have = use cases where the bandwidth is not what we want to encode in the EC but r= ather a generalized weight that is derived from the link count, logical weight or simply a configured value. Among th= e co-authors we also discussed the possibility of defining two ECs: one for= BW and one for a generalized-weight, so that the remote PE can catch if th= e multi-homed PEs were indeed using the same meaning of the weight. However, we thought it was easier/simpler = to use a generalized value in a single EC sub-type, and add the sentence be= low.

 

The sentence can be modified/fixed= . But the gist is that the multi-homed PEs may support multiple meanings fo= r the weight (BW, link-count, etc), but at least one of those MUST be common across all PEs and the multi-homed ro= utes must use it consistently. Would it be enough if we fix it?<= /span>

 

About existing implementations, a = new EVPN sub-type was defined only a couple of revisions ago, where, before= , the existing non-transitive link BW EC was used, so there’s been some churn in the use of the EC anyway.= I think it is important to get it as soon as possible, but get it right ra= ther than finding gaps later once the document is done. But let us know you= r thoughts too.

 

Thank you.

Jorge

 

 

Hi Neeraj,

 

Thanks for considering my comments.

Much better from my perspective. Thank you.<= /span>

 

I have two comments on the changes:

- Regarding deployments

=A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodi= ngs/usages with no way to detect which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while some other PE could = advertise a general weight. I understand that both works, but to me there i= s a significant risk of issues over time or between domain/SP. I’d pr= efer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real= bandwidth (at least for consistency with the name of the community, but al= so because this is not subjective)  (And if a SP really wants to put a= n arbitrary value, I think he will figure out by himself, that it can do so).

If you disagree with the above, then I would= have a comment on the two below sentences:

An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of

   encoding the value.  Operator MUST ensure consi= stent encoding of this

   value across all PEs in an ethernet segment.<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-ansi-language:EN-US">

Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUS= T) can only be fulfilled if the first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options, or one specifically de= fined.

 

- Regarding existing implementations:=

previous version of the draft did not really= specify the format of the EVPN EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth l= ink bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating point format. Latest= version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. Integer looks good to= me, but for an existing implementation this may be seen as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obvio= usly, if there are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you= could also express the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to.= (I have no preference). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be a risk of= existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the codepoint is s= quatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

 

= From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ie= tf@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb
=

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comments. We hav= e revised the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wro= te:

Hi St= =E9phane, authors,

 =

I have= not followed the discussions on this document, but I’ll nonetheless = raise one point  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than s= orry).

- why = has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its reading s= eem mandatory?

 

[NM]: There was a leftover reference to thi= s in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With t= his, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was intended).

 

- A ne= w EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not find i= ts specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but= transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?=

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.

 

- [BGP= -LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second.= Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also c= learly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf<= /span> below). Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the exam= ples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 y= ears ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and = bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major imple= mentation had implemented and deployed “bytes per second” as per the spec, while another implementati= on had implemented and deployed “bits per second” which is the = typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to = change its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could = we have an implementation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this information. Perhap= s someone else could comment.

 

 =

Thanks=

Regard= s,=

--Brun= o<= /span>

 =

 =

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,=
 =
 =
 =
We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb=
.<=
/span>
 =
I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/1=
0) to
get any last comments before moving to the next step.
However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, a=
nd PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts=
 are ready.
 =
 =
Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday.
 =
 =
 =
Thanks,
 =
 =
 =
Stephane
 =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bes=
s-evpn-unequal-lb/
 =
 =
 =
 =

 

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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry)= . - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BY3PR05MB808133AF6671486FA512A675C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bruno,

 

I had suggested:

 

“The value field in the link bandwidth EC is = to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned integer and it is the provider’s =  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, for example, if the provider wanted = the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it should decide the unit= s, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a multiple of that unit= .  

 

This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weigh= ted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on v= alues whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org= > On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Neeraj,<= /span>

 

Thanks for considering= my comments.

Much better from my pe= rspective. Thank you.

 

I have two comments on= the changes:

- Regarding deployment= s

=A74.1 allows two rath= er incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detect which one is used: s= ome PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both wor= ks, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between do= main/SP. I’d prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consis= tency in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for consistency with the name of the c= ommunity, but also because this is not subjective)  (And if a SP reall= y wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he will figure out by himself, t= hat it can do so).

If you disagree with t= he above, then I would have a comment on the two below sentences:

An implementation may support one or more o= f the above ways of

   encoding the value.  Oper= ator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value across all PEs in an eth= ernet segment.

Logic dictates that th= e second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the first sentence mandat= es that all implementations MUST support both options, or one specifically defined.

 

- Regarding existing i= mplementations:

previous version of th= e draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN EC. I had personally = assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating point format. Late= st version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. Integer looks good = to me, but for an existing implementation this may be seen as an incompatib= le change very late in the process. Obviously, if there are no implementation, there is no issue. In which cas= e, you could also express the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wi= sh to. (I have no preference). However given that the draft had indicated a= codepoint, there seem to be a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the codepoint i= s squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

 

From: = Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.iet= f@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comment= s. We have revised the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <= ;bruno.decraene@orange.com= > wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed t= he discussions on this document, but I’ll nonetheless raise one point=  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-B= W] been moved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?<= /span>

 

[NM]: There was a leftover referen= ce to this in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN E= C. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was in= tended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Ban= dwidth extended community is defined, but I could not find its specificatio= n. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.=

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] adver= tises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit= of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this= (cf below). Also = in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the correct= unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so,= I had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-= LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and deployed “bytes per = second” as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented= and deployed “bits per second” which is the typical unit of li= nk bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change = with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could we have an implemen= tation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this informatio= n. Perhaps someone else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,
 
 
 
We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bes=
s-evpn-unequal-lb.
 
I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to=
 be closed on 5/10) to
get any last comments before moving to the next ste=
p.
However, the document having normative references t=
o EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG u=
ntil these drafts are ready.
 
 
Feel free to send comments to the list before next =
Monday.
 
 
 
Thanks,<=
/pre>
 
 
 
Stephane=
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 
 
 
 

 

____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

__________________________________= _____________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

____________________________________________________=
_____________________________________________________________________<=
/o:p>
 
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir de=
s informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisa=
tion. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces j=
ointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a =
ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confide=
ntial or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied witho=
ut authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please not=
ify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for m=
essages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_BY3PR05MB808133AF6671486FA512A675C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_-- From nobody Thu May 6 06:16:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E873A21EB for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 06:16:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FfYLV-LPRwDo for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 06:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9132C3A21E6 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 06:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FbYxC5M33z20Zm; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:15:59 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1620306959; bh=EyeHgBoBsGTaNeVvvklnm45tGQ/3SO5taQFxG3GSuD8=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=rgOCMVfEXzNOZibjdXXHMIvBktGcy5/XO7nM1CRIn0hy5iWeI89mCVu0IZi2U1suU NlO8zS4BJkOzcDamLxiUm5ZhVKD06Y6pTh3U5zbP1Co3LCq4FoWj0wMmqzNDpbMTXG qDTnkskxzPf98Nt51lo9ECqRcxnqPDSA4RBfMTdfAxJCRacSFf/2MjTbFJ0A+i4ynK lE9Cy/NaBJw8yiw7/Zx2RontoZKsuNNrm/8R5/KDFdZJQK9RWmZNhE5O3hT5loddA/ dIsoFeRmtPodXIwPUclgdkvC2NPn8dbB9BovvOf8UunH4b+2A+avs71IN6kPhtFsko TzeaZqRwmY+Dw== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.48]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4FbYxC42yCz1xpY; Thu, 6 May 2021 15:15:59 +0200 (CEST) From: To: John E Drake CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" , Neeraj Malhotra Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2/leljGzYlEWOvsee2GV03QADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAKDHFgAABRPBA= Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 13:15:58 +0000 Message-ID: <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 13:16:09 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized= usage, such that by default, if all operators follow this, this just works. Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to= me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks uni= t 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using incon= sistent units. > This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in= all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics = are unknown to it." I think that we all agree with this. But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. = Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one= want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing a w= arning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency in v= arious cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the = unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It's only= about encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sou= nd hot or cold to you? Thanks, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN ; Neeraj Malhotra Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi John,

 

Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized usage, such that by default, if all operators follow = this, this just works.

Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domai= n2/AS2/VPN2 picks unit 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we ma= y ends up using inconsistent units.

 

> This ensures that when an in= gress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple = integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

I think that we all agree with this.

But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to= ensure this. If one want to state multiple options, stating the easy defau= lt and providing a warning for variations seems to increase the probability= of consistency in various cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the unit/semanti= c is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It’s only about= encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sound hot= or cold to you?

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.= com>; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>=
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

I had sugges= ted:

 <= /o:p>

“The v= alue field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned = integer and it is the provider’s  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, fo= r example, if the provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit ba= ndwidth, it should decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the valu= e field as a multiple of that unit.  

 <= /o:p>

This ensures= that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it = is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

An implementation m= ay support one or more of the above ways of

   encodi= ng the value.  Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value = across all PEs in an ethernet segment.

From:mailto:neeraj.ie= tf@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised= the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I’ll non= etheless raise one point  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its = reading seem mandatory?

 

[NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one = of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, refe= rence to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was intended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could n= ot find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be exp= licitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) pe= r second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially = give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the = examples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writ= en)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between = bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and = deployed “bytes per second” as per the spec, while another impl= ementation had implemented and deployed “bits per second” which= is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backwar= d compatible change with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could= we have an implementation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone= else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:b= ess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,
 
 
 
We got final=
 updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.=
 
I'm opening =
a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to
get any last=
 comments before moving to the next step.
However, the=
 document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-D=
F, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready.<=
o:p>
 
 
Feel free to=
 send comments to the list before next Monday.
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
Stephane
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 
 
 
 

 

______________________________________________________________________=
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pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
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a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag=
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
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Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
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 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
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te this message and its attachments.
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Thu, 6 May 2021 13:37:13 +0000 From: John E Drake To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" , Neeraj Malhotra Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2J0/mGOvKSC6oOVSo+WO3zQADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAKDHFgAADbSgAAAHpEkA== Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 13:37:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.100.41 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; 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boundary="_000_BY3PR05MB8081D42306503453362C09F5C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6ad3af80-3f7a-47c2-a80a-08d910940e94 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 May 2021 13:37:13.3721 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: x0jm6SvemA1ktcMxjurCQl/BqIqpUD9RpsIwyQVjFgiMhPh1OdRinZh39rgvh9XtK/vuliJ+kBq7CLnsSf2Odw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB6567 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 6zPBYmS96fvFBY-n_g0EKtU6Iojnr4Fl X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 6zPBYmS96fvFBY-n_g0EKtU6Iojnr4Fl X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-05-06_08:2021-05-06, 2021-05-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1015 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105060099 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 13:37:24 -0000 --_000_BY3PR05MB8081D42306503453362C09F5C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the sa= me ES that need to be configured consistently. This is exactly the same re= quirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM To: John E Drake Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi John, Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized= usage, such that by default, if all operators follow this, this just works= . Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to= me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks uni= t 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using incon= sistent units. > This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in= all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics = are unknown to it." I think that we all agree with this. But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. = Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one= want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing a w= arning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency in v= arious cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the = unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It's only= about encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sou= nd hot or cold to you? Thanks, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN >; Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry)= . - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. 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Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_BY3PR05MB8081D42306503453362C09F5C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bruno,

 

It’s *not* all egress PEs, it’s = only the multi-homed PEs attached to the same ES that need to be configured= consistently.  This is exactly the same requirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <= bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neer= aj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi John,

 <= /p>

Personally, I would pr= efer that the text indicates the default/standardized usage, such that by d= efault, if all operators follow this, this just works.

Proposing no default a= nd that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to me a path for domain1= /AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks unit 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using i= nconsistent units.

 

> This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balanci= ng, in all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose sema= ntics are unknown to it.”

I think that we all ag= ree with this.

But this assumes and h= ence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. Having a single unit (= e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing= a warning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency = in various cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me = the unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It’s only about encoding/syntax= . e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sound hot or cold to you?=

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

From: = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.n= et]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com
>; Neeraj Malhotra <n= eeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,

 

I had suggested:

 

“The value field in the link bandwidth EC is = to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned integer and it is the provider’s =  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, for example, if the provider wanted = the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it should decide the unit= s, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a multiple of that unit= .  

 

This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weigh= ted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on v= alues whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decr= aene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <nee= raj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Neeraj,<= /span>

 

Thanks for considering= my comments.

Much better from my pe= rspective. Thank you.

 

I have two comments on= the changes:

- Regarding deployment= s

=A74.1 allows two rath= er incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detect which one is used: s= ome PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both wor= ks, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between do= main/SP. I’d prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consis= tency in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for consistency with the name of the c= ommunity, but also because this is not subjective)  (And if a SP reall= y wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he will figure out by himself, t= hat it can do so).

If you disagree with t= he above, then I would have a comment on the two below sentences:

An implementation may support one or more o= f the above ways of

   encoding the value.  Oper= ator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value across all PEs in an eth= ernet segment.

Logic dictates that th= e second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the first sentence mandat= es that all implementations MUST support both options, or one specifically defined.

 

- Regarding existing i= mplementations:

previous version of th= e draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN EC. I had personally = assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating point format. Late= st version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. Integer looks good = to me, but for an existing implementation this may be seen as an incompatib= le change very late in the process. Obviously, if there are no implementation, there is no issue. In which cas= e, you could also express the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wi= sh to. (I have no preference). However given that the draft had indicated a= codepoint, there seem to be a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the codepoint i= s squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

 

From: = Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.iet= f@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comment= s. We have revised the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <= ;bruno.decraene@orange.com= > wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed t= he discussions on this document, but I’ll nonetheless raise one point=  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-B= W] been moved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?<= /span>

 

[NM]: There was a leftover referen= ce to this in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN E= C. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was in= tended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Ban= dwidth extended community is defined, but I could not find its specificatio= n. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.=

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] adver= tises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit= of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this= (cf below). Also = in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the correct= unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so,= I had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-= LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and deployed “bytes per = second” as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented= and deployed “bits per second” which is the typical unit of li= nk bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change = with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could we have an implemen= tation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this informatio= n. Perhaps someone else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,
 
 
 
We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bes=
s-evpn-unequal-lb.
 
I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to=
 be closed on 5/10) to
get any last comments before moving to the next ste=
p.
However, the document having normative references t=
o EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG u=
ntil these drafts are ready.
 
 
Feel free to send comments to the list before next =
Monday.
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
Stephane
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 
 
 
 

 

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--_000_BY3PR05MB8081D42306503453362C09F5C7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_-- From nobody Thu May 6 07:06:45 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796EE3A2377 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:06:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jzaWkrkwK8SA for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D73EF3A2381 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.9]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Fbb3Q68Cmz7v66; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:06:26 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1620309986; bh=AYNQMqer2BNici4/fIrBMNSED+lPxk/fayEtTri11Kg=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=LcR2ipcNZd0ts/TO57XaY0QQnlib17m++Ua59cJj4qhz8RzbIe67wedV/vofr5A77 P9P3eIhZZHXXX1M/YBzwkvrQNsCH/ZXxxQ4JLaIIy9Txo96sQW8jpvd32YwouNynfj JC3+PE5k8Nv+d1CoCftZcjrGywGO1S4v3Z6sWWgkHZB37HUMOQ9rNulkN+UyjhS4it nfXu75ouAtSPrAWDsz5Uu72i6Io6kf2iYNYp3Q/LT91VaJlYR31Bp2Dn3aK2mF2+tz DqJR/Y1vQyfEwnZkuHoR2G9ogYvu/UVeHY3g2sbUaZy3XScoJRztdFMeT40J5QUqHG pEeJf3XyQyDRQ== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.95]) by opfedar07.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Fbb3Q4b5Lz5vNH; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:06:26 +0200 (CEST) From: To: John E Drake CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" , Neeraj Malhotra Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2/leljGzYlEWOvsee2GV03QADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAKDHFgAADbSgAAAHpEkAAAXVyg Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 14:06:25 +0000 Message-ID: <19910_1620309986_6093F7E2_19910_218_7_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 14:06:44 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, > It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the = same ES that need to be configured consistently Agreed. But step by step consistency becomes nice to have on all PEs: on a given PE= , you probably don't want to mix and match different units on a per ES basi= s. So consistency per PE. Since an ES may be attached to different PEs, it'= s easier to have consistency across PEs within a domain. Then you have mult= i domains scenarios, including a new domain been involved long after the or= iginal network design. In the absence of global consistency, at some point when you have to merge = PE/domains/VPNs the inconsistency becomes problematic and requires some spe= cial cases/handling. Seems simpler to ensure consistency by default. At least to me. We are not even discussing reducing the number of options, not to mention t= o one. We are only discussing to pick one per default so that we get intero= p by default. This point may be moved to a deployment consideration section if you believ= e that this hurts the specification. But I feel that it may have impact on = implementations e.g. one cli/yang model/documentation referring to bit/s wh= ile the other one referring to bytes/s... and voil=E0 we are likely to have= inconsistencies. Regards, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the sa= me ES that need to be configured consistently. This is exactly the same re= quirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com > Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM To: John E Drake > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi John, Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized= usage, such that by default, if all operators follow this, this just works. Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to= me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks uni= t 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using incon= sistent units. > This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in= all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics = are unknown to it." I think that we all agree with this. But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. = Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one= want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing a w= arning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency in v= arious cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the = unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It's only= about encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sou= nd hot or cold to you? Thanks, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN >; Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John,

 

> It̵= 7;s *not* all egress PEs, it’s only the multi-homed PEs attach= ed to the same ES that need to be configured consistently

 

Agreed= .

But step by step consistency becomes nice to have on all PEs: on a given PE, you probably don’t want to mix and match differe= nt units on a per ES basis. So consistency per PE. Since an ES may be attac= hed to different PEs, it’s easier to have consistency across PEs with= in a domain. Then you have multi domains scenarios, including a new domain been involved long after the original network desig= n.

In the absence of global consistency, at some point when you have to merge PE/domains/VPNs the inconsistency becomes problematic an= d requires some special cases/handling.

Seems simpler to ensure consistency by default. At least to me.

 

We are not even discussing reducing the number of options, not to mention to one. We are only discussing to pick one per default so t= hat we get interop by default.

This point may be moved to a deployment consideration section if you believe that this hurts the specification. But I feel that it may h= ave impact on implementations e.g. one cli/yang model/documentation referri= ng to bit/s while the other one referring to bytes/s… and voil=E0 we = are likely to have inconsistencies.

 

Regards,

--Bruno

 

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neer= aj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

It’s *= not* all egress PEs, it’s only the multi-homed PEs attached to= the same ES that need to be configured consistently.  This is exactly the same requirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484:=   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1.

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

From:bruno.decraene@orange.com = <bruno.decraene@orange.com<= /a>>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM
To: John E Drake <
jdrake@ju= niper.net>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi John,

 

This ensures that when an in= gress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple = integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

From:mailto:jdrake@juniper.= net]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
>; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

I had sugges= ted:

 <= /o:p>

“The v= alue field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned = integer and it is the provider’s  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, fo= r example, if the provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit ba= ndwidth, it should decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the valu= e field as a multiple of that unit.  

 <= /o:p>

This ensures= that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it = is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

From:bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com<= /a>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <
nee= raj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

An implementation m= ay support one or more of the above ways of

   encodi= ng the value.  Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value = across all PEs in an ethernet segment.

From:mailto:neeraj.ie= tf@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised= the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I’ll non= etheless raise one point  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its = reading seem mandatory?

 

[NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one = of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, refe= rence to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was intended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could n= ot find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be exp= licitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) pe= r second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially = give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the = examples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writ= en)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between = bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and = deployed “bytes per second” as per the spec, while another impl= ementation had implemented and deployed “bits per second” which= is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backwar= d compatible change with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could= we have an implementation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone= else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:b= ess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,=
 =
 
 =
We got final=
 updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb.
 =
I'm opening =
a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to
get any last=
 comments before moving to the next step.
However, the=
 document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-D=
F, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are ready.<=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"">
 =
 
Feel free to=
 send comments to the list before next Monday.
 =
 
 =
Thanks,
 =
 
 =
Stephane
 =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 =
 =
 
 =

 

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his message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged info=
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Thu, 6 May 2021 14:23:14 +0000 From: John E Drake To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" , Neeraj Malhotra Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2J0/mGOvKSC6oOVSo+WO3zQADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAKDHFgAADbSgAAAHpEkAABSMuAAAA/o6A= Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 14:23:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <19910_1620309986_6093F7E2_19910_218_7_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <19910_1620309986_6093F7E2_19910_218_7_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.6.100.41 dlp-reaction: no-action msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; 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boundary="_000_BY3PR05MB808161A4865C7C8DBDAB7C7BC7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: fee0144f-bb0a-451a-b84d-08d9109a7c1d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 May 2021 14:23:14.2169 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /yFbwcnSoUig+amRyL1Mr71i8Qiwtnn8CEwq40M+m3HSDrUaEtZTrGJLv+r6LTwx/3xZWO29w68dOlJiD+VJrw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB6568 X-Proofpoint-GUID: l7_rm8tGGSWvBM0b4mnweWupu5lBkxB7 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: l7_rm8tGGSWvBM0b4mnweWupu5lBkxB7 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-05-06_10:2021-05-06, 2021-05-06 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1011 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105060105 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 14:23:26 -0000 --_000_BY3PR05MB808161A4865C7C8DBDAB7C7BC7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, If you like we could say that the EC value field is an unsigned integer whi= ch by default represents the attachment circuit bandwidth in units of 1 GBP= S. (As an aside, if six octet unsigned integer arithmetic is difficult, we= could say that the value field is a four octet unsigned integer that is ri= ght hand justified within the six octet value field.) If a value other than attachment circuit bandwidth is being represented, it= must be configured consistently on all of the PEs attached to a given ES. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:06 AM To: John E Drake Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] John, > It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the = same ES that need to be configured consistently Agreed. But step by step consistency becomes nice to have on all PEs: on a given PE= , you probably don't want to mix and match different units on a per ES basi= s. So consistency per PE. Since an ES may be attached to different PEs, it'= s easier to have consistency across PEs within a domain. Then you have mult= i domains scenarios, including a new domain been involved long after the or= iginal network design. In the absence of global consistency, at some point when you have to merge = PE/domains/VPNs the inconsistency becomes problematic and requires some spe= cial cases/handling. Seems simpler to ensure consistency by default. At least to me. We are not even discussing reducing the number of options, not to mention t= o one. We are only discussing to pick one per default so that we get intero= p by default. This point may be moved to a deployment consideration section if you believ= e that this hurts the specification. But I feel that it may have impact on = implementations e.g. one cli/yang model/documentation referring to bit/s wh= ile the other one referring to bytes/s... and voil=E0 we are likely to have= inconsistencies. Regards, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the sa= me ES that need to be configured consistently. This is exactly the same re= quirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com > Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM To: John E Drake > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi John, Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized= usage, such that by default, if all operators follow this, this just works= . Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to= me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks uni= t 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using incon= sistent units. > This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in= all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics = are unknown to it." I think that we all agree with this. But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. = Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one= want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing a w= arning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency in v= arious cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the = unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It's only= about encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sou= nd hot or cold to you? Thanks, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN >; Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry)= . - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. 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Bruno,

 

If you like we could say that the EC value field is= an unsigned integer which by default represents the attachment circuit ban= dwidth in units of 1 GBPS.  (As an aside, if six octet unsigned integer arithmetic is difficult, we could say that the valu= e field is a four octet unsigned integer that is right hand justified withi= n the six octet value field.)

 

If a value other than attachment circuit bandwidth = is being represented, it must be configured consistently on all of the PEs = attached to a given ES.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: bruno.decraene@orange.com <= bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:06 AM
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neer= aj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

John,

 <= /p>

> It’s *not* all egress PEs, itR= 17;s only the multi-homed PEs attached to the same ES that need to be confi= gured consistently

 

Agreed.=

But step by step consi= stency becomes nice to have on all PEs: on a given PE, you probably donR= 17;t want to mix and match different units on a per ES basis. So consistency per PE. Since an ES may be attached to different PEs= , it’s easier to have consistency across PEs within a domain. Then yo= u have multi domains scenarios, including a new domain been involved long a= fter the original network design.

In the absence of glob= al consistency, at some point when you have to merge PE/domains/VPNs the in= consistency becomes problematic and requires some special cases/handling.

Seems simpler to ensur= e consistency by default. At least to me.

 

We are not even discus= sing reducing the number of options, not to mention to one. We are only dis= cussing to pick one per default so that we get interop by default.

This point may be move= d to a deployment consideration section if you believe that this hurts the = specification. But I feel that it may have impact on implementations e.g. one cli/yang model/documentation referring to bit/= s while the other one referring to bytes/s… and voil=E0 we are likely= to have inconsistencies.

 

Regards,

--Bruno

 

From: John E= Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net= ]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,

 

It’s *not* all egress PEs, it’s = only the multi-homed PEs attached to the same ES that need to be configured= consistently.  This is exactly the same requirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1.

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi John,

 <= /p>

Personally, I would pr= efer that the text indicates the default/standardized usage, such that by d= efault, if all operators follow this, this just works.

Proposing no default a= nd that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to me a path for domain1= /AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks unit 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using i= nconsistent units.

 

> This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balanci= ng, in all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose sema= ntics are unknown to it.”

I think that we all ag= ree with this.

But this assumes and h= ence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. Having a single unit (= e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing= a warning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency = in various cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me = the unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It’s only about encoding/syntax= . e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sound hot or cold to you?=

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

From: = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.n= et]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com
>; Neeraj Malhotra <n= eeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,

 

I had suggested:

 

“The value field in the link bandwidth EC is = to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned integer and it is the provider’s =  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, for example, if the provider wanted = the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it should decide the unit= s, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a multiple of that unit= .  

 

This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weigh= ted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on v= alues whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 

Yours Irrespectively,

 

John

 

 

Juniper Business Use Only

From: BESS <bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decr= aene@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <nee= raj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lato",san= s-serif;color:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi Neeraj,<= /span>

 

Thanks for considering= my comments.

Much better from my pe= rspective. Thank you.

 

I have two comments on= the changes:

- Regarding deployment= s

=A74.1 allows two rath= er incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detect which one is used: s= ome PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both wor= ks, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between do= main/SP. I’d prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consis= tency in deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for consistency with the name of the c= ommunity, but also because this is not subjective)  (And if a SP reall= y wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he will figure out by himself, t= hat it can do so).

If you disagree with t= he above, then I would have a comment on the two below sentences:

An implementation may support one or more o= f the above ways of

   encoding the value.  Oper= ator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value across all PEs in an eth= ernet segment.

Logic dictates that th= e second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the first sentence mandat= es that all implementations MUST support both options, or one specifically defined.

 

- Regarding existing i= mplementations:

previous version of th= e draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN EC. I had personally = assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf-idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating point format. Late= st version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. Integer looks good = to me, but for an existing implementation this may be seen as an incompatib= le change very late in the process. Obviously, if there are no implementation, there is no issue. In which cas= e, you could also express the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wi= sh to. (I have no preference). However given that the draft had indicated a= codepoint, there seem to be a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the codepoint i= s squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request.

 

Thanks,

--Bruno

 

 

From: = Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.iet= f@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comment= s. We have revised the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <= ;bruno.decraene@orange.com= > wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed t= he discussions on this document, but I’ll nonetheless raise one point=  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-B= W] been moved to informational reference while its reading seem mandatory?<= /span>

 

[NM]: There was a leftover referen= ce to this in one of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN E= C. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was in= tended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Ban= dwidth extended community is defined, but I could not find its specificatio= n. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.=

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] adver= tises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per second. Could the unit= of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this= (cf below). Also = in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the correct= unit (vs bits per seconds as writen)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so,= I had raised a similar point (distinction between bits and bytes) on [BGP-= LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and deployed “bytes per = second” as per the spec, while another implementation had implemented= and deployed “bits per second” which is the typical unit of li= nk bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward compatible change = with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could we have an implemen= tation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this informatio= n. Perhaps someone else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM
To: bess@ietf.org=
Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb

 

Hi WG,
 
 
 
We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bes=
s-evpn-unequal-lb.
 
I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to=
 be closed on 5/10) to
get any last comments before moving to the next ste=
p.
However, the document having normative references t=
o EVPN PREF DF, and PER-MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG u=
ntil these drafts are ready.
 
 
Feel free to send comments to the list before next =
Monday.
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
 
 
Stephane
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/
 
 
 
 

 

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deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
 
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or pri=
vileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisa=
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--_000_BY3PR05MB808161A4865C7C8DBDAB7C7BC7589BY3PR05MB8081namp_-- From nobody Thu May 6 07:46:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: bess@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DDF23A24BB for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=orange.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zuNG8-nwNEqB for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (relais-inet.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A90DE3A24B9 for ; Thu, 6 May 2021 07:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Fbbx45Z2zz11F8; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:46:00 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orange.com; s=ORANGE001; t=1620312360; bh=+asJkQ3vVrmZMx6PccOOzYiZShnBgqODlMpqYhVcEXI=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=GoiXEGCfLxhuYrMEJUzy2U0y0Uq8HXDyngERG+957p2iFJ5jx/NCWNGBUC5YG2lSX dP1V2LO53U84sp6vfFsaZHPcNPseruEXRcxm1FlkiK7vGSCHqh6H/OJ1wU/K2vmxIR AWtp8mml2HwIwUZmZ5uKNZ/d5GFa3fmJZlLyseavDMNJpNgjiX8jFnl+kIFLdmvoSg le+pMo6lbkGc0rIWAHiSOuW/VdVCEaxX/Qq/mzSkjMw70tglIfIIipxjt6s4gvvsPw wUzko22lFUyKTd8W4TKB2P2GhI8SYjoQL5V2eyemFTkPHh63Xg67cB99R7M2r+h5OY C5/FA6ADK+G9w== Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.42]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4Fbbx43lvyzDq7L; Thu, 6 May 2021 16:46:00 +0200 (CEST) From: To: John E Drake CC: "slitkows.ietf@gmail.com" , "bess@ietf.org" , Neeraj Malhotra Thread-Topic: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Thread-Index: Adc/7NS2/leljGzYlEWOvsee2GV03QADkP0AAI/SegAABPyVgAAKDHFgAADbSgAAAHpEkAABSMuAAAA/o6AAALT1MA== Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 14:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <26059_1620312360_60940128_26059_258_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86686@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <030c01d73fec$ddfc7320$99f55960$@gmail.com> <28781_1620033617_608FC051_28781_399_5_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD7E00D@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4079_1620288224_6093A2E0_4079_13_11_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD85C3E@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <11087_1620306959_6093EC0F_11087_268_2_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86530@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <19910_1620309986_6093F7E2_19910_218_7_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86602@OPEXCAUBM43.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86686OPEXCAUBM43corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb X-BeenThere: bess@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: BGP-Enabled ServiceS working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 14:46:08 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86686OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, My comment is limited to specifying the default unit which provides consist= ency by default. I had proposed some text, but others word along this line = works for me. Your below text goes beyond this and proposes to additionally change the un= it and the syntax. That's your proposal, not mine. I leave this to the auth= ors/WG. But I'm a priori not fine with unsigned integer in units of 1 GBPS = as it does not seem to work with links below 1GBPS. (I personally don't see= an issue with the encoding currently chosen in the draft but if authors/WG= want to change, this also works for me) Regards, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:23 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, If you like we could say that the EC value field is an unsigned integer whi= ch by default represents the attachment circuit bandwidth in units of 1 GBP= S. (As an aside, if six octet unsigned integer arithmetic is difficult, we= could say that the value field is a four octet unsigned integer that is ri= ght hand justified within the six octet value field.) If a value other than attachment circuit bandwidth is being represented, it= must be configured consistently on all of the PEs attached to a given ES. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com > Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 10:06 AM To: John E Drake > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] John, > It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the = same ES that need to be configured consistently Agreed. But step by step consistency becomes nice to have on all PEs: on a given PE= , you probably don't want to mix and match different units on a per ES basi= s. So consistency per PE. Since an ES may be attached to different PEs, it'= s easier to have consistency across PEs within a domain. Then you have mult= i domains scenarios, including a new domain been involved long after the or= iginal network design. In the absence of global consistency, at some point when you have to merge = PE/domains/VPNs the inconsistency becomes problematic and requires some spe= cial cases/handling. Seems simpler to ensure consistency by default. At least to me. We are not even discussing reducing the number of options, not to mention t= o one. We are only discussing to pick one per default so that we get intero= p by default. This point may be moved to a deployment consideration section if you believ= e that this hurts the specification. But I feel that it may have impact on = implementations e.g. one cli/yang model/documentation referring to bit/s wh= ile the other one referring to bytes/s... and voil=E0 we are likely to have= inconsistencies. Regards, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, It's *not* all egress PEs, it's only the multi-homed PEs attached to the sa= me ES that need to be configured consistently. This is exactly the same re= quirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484: https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1. Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: bruno.decraene@orange.com > Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM To: John E Drake > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org>; Neeraj Malhotra > Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi John, Personally, I would prefer that the text indicates the default/standardized= usage, such that by default, if all operators follow this, this just works. Proposing no default and that everyone be free to pick his own unit seem to= me a path for domain1/AS1/VPN1 picks unit 1 and domain2/AS2/VPN2 picks uni= t 2. Then in case of merge, inter-domain/AS/VPN, we may ends up using incon= sistent units. > This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in= all cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics = are unknown to it." I think that we all agree with this. But this assumes and hence requires that all egress PEs use the same unit. = Having a single unit (e.g., bytes/s) is a simple way to ensure this. If one= want to state multiple options, stating the easy default and providing a w= arning for variations seems to increase the probability of consistency in v= arious cases (including the one above e.g. network merges). IOW, to me the = unit/semantic is part of the interoperability and hence standard. It's only= about encoding/syntax. e.g. my outdoor temperature is 30=B0. Does this sou= nd hot or cold to you? Thanks, --Bruno From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN >; Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Bruno, I had suggested: "The value field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet uns= igned integer and it is the provider's responsibility to encode it consist= ently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES. So, for example, if th= e provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit bandwidth, it shou= ld decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the value field as a mul= tiple of that unit. This ensures that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in a= ll cases it is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics ar= e unknown to it." Yours Irrespectively, John Juniper Business Use Only From: BESS > On Behalf = Of bruno.decraene@orange.com Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM To: Neeraj Malhotra > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb [External Email. Be cautious of content] Hi Neeraj, Thanks for considering my comments. Much better from my perspective. Thank you. I have two comments on the changes: - Regarding deployments =A74.1 allows two rather incompatible encodings/usages with no way to detec= t which one is used: some PE could advertise the bandwidth in bytes, while = some other PE could advertise a general weight. I understand that both work= s, but to me there is a significant risk of issues over time or between dom= ain/SP. I'd prefer that you only chose one in order to favour consistency i= n deployments and usage and I would prefer the real bandwidth (at least for= consistency with the name of the community, but also because this is not s= ubjective) (And if a SP really wants to put an arbitrary value, I think he= will figure out by himself, that it can do so). If you disagree with the above, then I would have a comment on the two belo= w sentences: An implementation may support one or more of the above ways of encoding the value. Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this value across all PEs in an ethernet segment. Logic dictates that the second sentence (MUST) can only be fulfilled if the= first sentence mandates that all implementations MUST support both options= , or one specifically defined. - Regarding existing implementations: previous version of the draft did not really specify the format of the EVPN= EC. I had personally assumed that the format was similar to the draft-ietf= -idr-link-bandwidth link bandwidth community hence encoded in IEEE floating= point format. Latest version of the draft defines it in unsigned integer. = Integer looks good to me, but for an existing implementation this may be se= en as an incompatible change very late in the process. Obviously, if there = are no implementation, there is no issue. In which case, you could also exp= ress the bandwidth in unit of bit/s _if you_ wish to. (I have no preference= ). However given that the draft had indicated a codepoint, there seem to be= a risk of existing implementations hence incompatible change. BTW the code= point is squatted even though the registry is FCFS hence easy to request. Thanks, --Bruno From: Neeraj Malhotra [mailto:neeraj.ietf@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN > Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org<= mailto:bess@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi Bruno, Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised the draft addressing y= our comments. More inline. Thanks, Neeraj On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM > wrote: Hi St=E9phane, authors, I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I'll nonetheless = raise one point regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry). - why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its rea= ding seem mandatory? [NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one of the sections that ha= s been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, reference to [BGP-LINK-BW] = is purely informational (as was intended). - A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could not = find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-B= W] but transitive. Could this be explicitly stated? [NM]: clarified in section 4. - [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) per s= econd. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be = also clearly spelled out? Especially give the history on this (cf below). A= lso in order to avoid misleading the readers could the examples use the cor= rect unit (vs bits per seconds as writen) [NM]: done. - 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between bit= s and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major= implementation had implemented and deployed "bytes per second" as per the = spec, while another implementation had implemented and deployed "bits per s= econd" which is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, = none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backward= compatible change with themselves. What's the status on this? Could we hav= e an implementation status on this? [NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone else could comment. Thanks Regards, --Bruno From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of slitkows.ietf@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 9:21 AM To: bess@ietf.org Subject: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb Hi WG, We got final updates from authors on draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb. I'm opening a new short Working Group Last Call (to be closed on 5/10) to get any last comments before moving to the next step. However, the document having normative references to EVPN PREF DF, and PER-= MCAST-FLOW-DF, the draft will not be sent to IESG until these drafts are re= ady. Feel free to send comments to the list before next Monday. Thanks, Stephane https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-lb/ ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A4CD86686OPEXCAUBM43corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John,

 

My comment is limited to specifying the default unit which provides consistency by default. I had proposed some text, but others word= along this line works for me.

 

Your below text goes beyond this and proposes to additionally change the unit and the syntax. That’s your proposal, not mine. I le= ave this to the authors/WG. But I’m a priori not fine with unsigned i= nteger in units of 1 GBPS as it does not seem to work with links below 1GBP= S. (I personally don’t see an issue with the encoding currently chosen in the draft but if authors/WG want to change, t= his also works for me)

 

Regards,

--Bruno

 

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:23 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.com; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neer= aj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

If you like = we could say that the EC value field is an unsigned integer which by defaul= t represents the attachment circuit bandwidth in units of 1 GBPS.  (As an aside, if six octet unsigned integer arithme= tic is difficult, we could say that the value field is a four octet unsigne= d integer that is right hand justified within the six octet value field.)

 <= /o:p>

If a value o= ther than attachment circuit bandwidth is being represented, it must be con= figured consistently on all of the PEs attached to a given ES.

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

John,

 

> It̵= 7;s *not* all egress PEs, it’s only the multi-homed PEs attach= ed to the same ES that need to be configured consistently

Agreed.

From: = John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.n= et]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:37 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

It’s *= not* all egress PEs, it’s only the multi-homed PEs attached to= the same ES that need to be configured consistently.  This is exactly the same requirement that we have for Ethernet Tag in RFC 8484:=   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8584#section-1.1.

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

From:bruno.decraene@orange.com = <bruno.decraene@orange.com<= /a>>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 9:16 AM
To: John E Drake <
jdrake@ju= niper.net>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

Hi John,

 

This ensures that when an in= gress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it is doing simple = integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

From:mailto:jdrake@juniper.= net]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 2:54 PM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@ora= nge.com
>; Neeraj Malhotra <neeraj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

Bruno,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

I had sugges= ted:

 <= /o:p>

“The v= alue field in the link bandwidth EC is to be treated as a 6 octet unsigned = integer and it is the provider’s  responsibility to encode it consistently across all of the PEs attached to a given ES.  So, fo= r example, if the provider wanted the EC to represent attachment circuit ba= ndwidth, it should decide the units, e.g., 1 GBPS, and then encode the valu= e field as a multiple of that unit.  

 <= /o:p>

This ensures= that when an ingress PE is doing weighted load balancing, in all cases it = is doing simple integer arithmetic on values whose semantics are unknown to it.”

 <= /o:p>

Yours Irresp= ectively,

 <= /o:p>

John

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Juniper Business Use Only

From:bess-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of bruno.decraene@orange.com<= /a>
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 4:04 AM
To: Neeraj Malhotra <
nee= raj.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Lato;color:black">[External Emai= l. Be cautious of content]

 

An implementation m= ay support one or more of the above ways of

   encodi= ng the value.  Operator MUST ensure consistent encoding of this

   value = across all PEs in an ethernet segment.

From:mailto:neeraj.ie= tf@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 7:41 AM
To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: slitkows.ietf@gmail.c= om; bess@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bess] New short WGLC for draft-ietf-bess-evpn-unequal-= lb

 

 

Hi Bruno,

 

Many thanks for the review comments. We have revised= the draft addressing your comments. 

 

More inline.

 

Thanks,

Neeraj

 

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 2:20 AM <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

Hi St=E9phane, authors,

 

I have not followed the discussions on this document, but I’ll non= etheless raise one point  regarding the bandwidth community (better safe than sorry).

- why has [BGP-LINK-BW] been moved to informational reference while its = reading seem mandatory?

 

[NM]: There was a leftover reference to this in one = of the sections that has been fixed now to use new EVPN EC. With this, refe= rence to [BGP-LINK-BW] is purely informational (as was intended).

 

- A new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community is defined, but I could n= ot find its specification. I guess that this is the same format as [BGP-LINK-BW] but transitive. Could this be exp= licitly stated?

 

[NM]: clarified in section 4.

 

- [BGP-LINK-BW] advertises the bandwidth in unit of bytes (not bits!) pe= r second. Could the unit of the new EVPN Link Bandwidth extended community be also clearly spelled out? Especially = give the history on this (cf below). Also in order to avoid misleading the readers could the = examples use the correct unit (vs bits per seconds as writ= en)

 

[NM]: done.

 

- 10 years ago or so, I had raised a similar point (distinction between = bits and bytes) on [BGP-LINK-BW] in the IDR WG. And it turned out that 1 major implementation had implemented and = deployed “bytes per second” as per the spec, while another impl= ementation had implemented and deployed “bits per second” which= is the typical unit of link bandwidth. Given the deployments, none was willing to change its implementation as it would be a non-backwar= d compatible change with themselves. What’s the status on this? Could= we have an implementation status on this?

 

[NM]: I don't have this information. Perhaps someone= else could comment.

 

 

Thanks

Regards,

--Bruno

 

 

From: BESS [mailto:b= ess-bounces@ietf.org] <