From nobody Wed Feb 3 04:49:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E742B3A0BC7; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 04:49:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yqXqlRjIUOQO; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 04:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 811983A0BCC; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 04:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id d16so24087187wro.11; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 04:49:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=kQN+6JSV3+w5/x7A0+uUQVQHqiT7NVGqfjuXARUp+go=; b=TJicfw3ptWVqFpcOrWC3aJGslV426+tABo1qfBr/42DXFI+xagFK9GhpP5H6toUX8h iaTacV0TuoJ/hCOaL57BCNV5HII4DY8lx7DAYtBRJ4Qm1yZ/53mxr/RlrKsi0pxx4rOO 981tqnCZ6pBfzqnA6w9259uImzuMvuWU3+kLOut6h4wagRIaO5/kI6z3gGT/GIpzuIui P4G4ajRVEGk9N4UcuTsmYAcE+p21vqqRl3xj4zX2Uf4KKBY6at3l2XQPe6qcAw34+XiT qJtuSpti81terFqmycJXTsFz2+5Qw0+dPj3zOruWtbMXQL3M269MmEFXem12n2jvNo6u welg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=kQN+6JSV3+w5/x7A0+uUQVQHqiT7NVGqfjuXARUp+go=; b=Ti1ESI2ejfQ/r20lTYWaLaI9rtH4NEUXBsr1NPFL964wAR9ewqKmrX7TkYK5YwXqtN 2moVJVpMHJWmlkaHZCxsThKFMncjhmWbjOix1Lk9TI+LrtMn36cTWgHtPLraKbKy3KEX fIB6/W9ctbSvUC/wbOixhfpUZopB9Lo24CJP5ceYAa7lh7TjqK8Mw26t0EduqckA7KFg 1JvCnsLSAb6XDNv3g3qbB3YOzlnjr2JrfvwzCkPuqEIeD5g/H06u3zuFT0JBBmeznaSw +WCGMTTuo0Hb7YVpv/uki6CIXkvdRf21Ybv41/0sZMTY8M0GkhhgNALI+zvllguUjdr7 uIBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/hJrhCKdcxBvqbVqNYQgqvBOTXnwfHQehZm+s9LkLMcfN4J1B GKUHcv4d1+0iDU3HmT5df2lA4mFLlUCxGA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz21xiQzqmF/MaHJBFpv+xozuQXNzXBnwBFZGoaVQNdpMlmZgE9ygvZfMY5XqkVPQhMhsep2w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:234:: with SMTP id l20mr3354531wrz.212.1612356581863; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 04:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:791e:1b4e:f095:65e3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z1sm3690154wru.70.2021.02.03.04.49.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Feb 2021 04:49:41 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A6EDA01E-8500-45FA-A531-2C1E77B09536" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 12:49:40 +0000 Cc: Stewart Bryant To: draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org, draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org, flexip@ietf.org, int-area X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] Using ISO8473 as a network layer to carry flexible addresses X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:49:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A6EDA01E-8500-45FA-A531-2C1E77B09536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Re drafts: =20 = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-stru= cture/ = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure/ = Since the authors are interested in network layer protocols that support = multiple address types and multiple address lengths, I wonder if they = have considered using ISO8473 as the bearer and developing that to their = needs? ISO 8473 is also known as ITU X233 (it costs money to download from ISO, = but seems to be free from the ITU-T site). It is an in force and = actually well deployed network layer protocol with many similar = characteristics to IPv6. The reason that it is deployed is that it is = used to support SS7. It also has a very widely deployed link-state IGP = since IS-IS was developed to support ISO8474 and later adapted to = support IP late run its life.=20 It was one of the contenders for IPv4 replacement, and so there RFCs = that authors may study: RFC994 is a copy of the late version of the spec = in RFC format. Then there is RFC1195 where Ross Callon shows how it = works in an IETF environment carrying IETF transport protocols and this = eventually became RFC1347 (TUBA), which whilst whilst marked Historic in = the IETF RFC collection is almost certainly still implementable since = the base network layer protocol is still an active standard. It would need some work to determine the applicability of the protocol = to your application and the feasibility of adding the necessary new = address types (due to crowding of the existing address registry) and any = other extensions that you might need. Note BTW that it supports source routing functionality and so ought to = be usable in an SR environment should that be needed. There would also need to be work to see how feasible it would be to = implement in a modern NPU, though having implemented it in a hardware = assisted microcode platform that is quite similar to a modern NPU back = in the 90s and having got quite creditable performance I think it is = feasible to run this on modern hardware including repurposing the = existing longest match engine to look up a number of your new address = formats.=20 There are a bunch of specs here for your convenience although I have not = studied the list in detail http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/protocol/clnp.htm Best regards Stewart --Apple-Mail=_A6EDA01E-8500-45FA-A531-2C1E77B09536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Re drafts:
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-a=
ddress-structure/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-flex-ip-address-stru=
cture/
Since the authors are interested in network layer =
protocols that support multiple address types and multiple address =
lengths, I wonder if they have considered using ISO8473 as the bearer =
and developing that to their needs?
ISO 8473 is also known as =
ITU X233 (it costs money to download from ISO, but seems to be free from =
the ITU-T site). It is an in force and actually well deployed network =
layer protocol with many similar characteristics to IPv6. The reason =
that it is deployed is that it is used to support SS7. It also has a =
very widely deployed link-state IGP since IS-IS was developed to support =
ISO8474 and later adapted to support IP late run its life. =
It was one of the contenders for IPv4 replacement, and so there RFCs that authors may study: RFC994 =
is a copy of the late version of the spec in RFC format. Then there is =
RFC1195 where Ross Callon shows how it works in an IETF environment =
carrying IETF transport protocols and this eventually became RFC1347 =
(TUBA), which whilst whilst marked Historic in the IETF RFC collection =
is almost certainly still implementable since the base network layer =
protocol is still an active standard.
It would need some work to =
determine the applicability of the protocol to your application and the =
feasibility of adding the necessary new address types (due to crowding =
of the existing address registry) and any other extensions that you =
might need.
Note BTW that it supports source routing =
functionality and so ought to be usable in an SR environment should that =
be needed.
There would also need to be work to see how feasible it would =
be to implement in a modern NPU, though having implemented it in a =
hardware assisted microcode platform that is quite similar to a modern =
NPU back in the 90s and having got quite creditable performance I think =
it is feasible to run this on modern hardware including repurposing the =
existing longest match engine to look up a number of your new address =
formats. 
There are a bunch of specs here for your =
convenience although I have not studied the list in =
detail
http://www.networksorcery.com/enp/protocol/clnp.htm<=
/font>
Best regards
Stewart




= --Apple-Mail=_A6EDA01E-8500-45FA-A531-2C1E77B09536-- From nobody Wed Feb 3 06:08:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CD53A0BDE; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 06:08:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qx4IxvFArOzr; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 06:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9293F3A0B5A; Wed, 3 Feb 2021 06:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id c127so5342629wmf.5; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 06:08:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=VU46ddGpXbk00M/PGFupOITaN91H9Ulhulxvo/BpKco=; b=CS51AO+LgxIWDNUxTdFvnxhrHV4eWd+e9v5+sycLjfmju1S+qefEOQ83ORgXTJ0Ci5 WWyPLFR7mKGz28BAa46x6bPjRXl9Oz8uaYoOwfUPjA+cEOnMxbH+fNPve/6x/+MZq3vs sTlh9TgByBfg6EMPccB7/cvgntehYKdN9BwzSMlaiLs3KQgdi+jqhXNfM/WsQ7R2QVLu /Bo5iKsA0wKHjdGe4Ka7Gn3NMIxTqWjQH9+M4hq0qyyz77YpC7JNrmz3tJ2aEex4BTsO mVeoIPhFPAC0LN3iLeH42wnOnis3b+nhr3bydy5Nb27JYPduMDJwORHz7dLx9ZUDzzkA j1AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=VU46ddGpXbk00M/PGFupOITaN91H9Ulhulxvo/BpKco=; b=PcsAN4WTYPkSFLJBVDKND9P5fQXdP8zGADWSq9tLyaMHUXCcqLkAm68g2DZ+mYLNow 3J2E6c+N+0nbLMaOeBmxTi1eNgJNkFKjtaeFgNXuE/Cy3/T1M/FBnSlRiIpKlW6cjPGk nhLQdf/HrjRIDgfK171Xs1EmR0ndh/7QsgMd9544cGFU8EGdJV6hWvm9U3jju9zm3tGg Q8+ZVO2kuffkajwzS2OrmWD1hTnLt+Vv6ykt9a30UnPxCQejvTuU/Nu+ftYeffmAFfww x3EPvxCeBDxMxpkNH+8p+tJwzUCKTAT3zgZnrcKaRcmPyWyunsKhH9KjqrD751IcnJ5m X24w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5330auMUOQSZcw46ukKsVt8wfGn9fA37vDBwTFc92xN6lpY1XaTh SZ1o2WLpYVIL3kXkMiCdmXJcTMqZ5rbGTg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwxw5YBAgjJvENuRi1G66TjPgi+9lAwWdMK7DuvLrWp6DmZVNmSwE6WC+5GmaJh3fY8p40WeA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:32c4:: with SMTP id y187mr3036808wmy.120.1612361320725; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 06:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:791e:1b4e:f095:65e3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t197sm13127457wmt.3.2021.02.03.06.08.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Feb 2021 06:08:40 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FC2C6DE1-03FE-44CA-B6E5-9BAB15CBB61D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Message-Id: <051CE5FA-BDCB-4BA3-BE19-2C6FF995AC04@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 14:08:37 +0000 Cc: Stewart Bryant To: draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org, draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org, flexip@ietf.org, int-area X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 14:08:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FC2C6DE1-03FE-44CA-B6E5-9BAB15CBB61D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 =20 Re drafts: =20 = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-stru= cture/ = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure/ = I have a number of comments these drafts, but in this email I would like = to focus on the small address proposal. By this I mean addresses that = are shorter than 64bits. =20 It seems to me that there are 3 operational reasons for small addresses: =20 1) That you might be worried about the amount of packet taken up by the = addresses. =20 2) That you might be worried about the amount of energy required to send = a packet. =20 3) That you want to use an address that is somehow native to a legacy = application. =E2=80=A6 and there are at least to implementation reasons: 4) That you might be worried about the amount of memory in the FIB. =20 5) That you might wish to optimise out the FIB hardware.=20 =20 There are two approaches to the case of addresses that are are = relatively short, where for the purposes of this discussion I define = =E2=80=9Crelatively short=E2=80=9D as an address between 8 and 64 bits = in length. One approach is to design and implement a new packet type, be that an = original design, or the repurposing of a suitable existing non-IP = design. If that is what you have in mind it would greatly assist = consideration of your work if you published that design in the IETF, or = at least pointed to it as an accessible document. That would allow us to = debate the properties of the packet and or your address proposal in the = context of the packet design. An alternative approach which needs to be = considered is to make the FlexIP address a suffix of an existing and = well known address type such as IPv6. In such a case by standardising = the corresponding IPv6 prefix you may produce implementation = simplifications, or alternatively by making it a prefix well known in = the domain you construct quite an effective leakage prevention = mechanism. Consider the IPv6 suffix case. Validating a well-know prefix before = invoking the address lookup machinery is a simple efficient process = using either one of more compare operators, or some hw technique such as = a special register. Certainly we could build hw to look up a small set = of well-known prefixes that burns a lot less energy than used in a full = address lookup. So that brings us to looking up the suffix and, by = definition the table used to do that is small. In other words most of the efficiency of doing a short address lookup = can be maintained even if the address is the suffix of a longer address = provided that the implementation is optimised for this case. =20 I think that argument covers much of use cases 3, 4 and 5. This applies = to your Indexes 1..EF, F0, F1 and F2 in your propose address design. =20 In your F5 case a longest match engine will work by definition on a = variable length address, provided it is short enough that sufficient = addresses from the primary address space can be deployed to this. Note = that you can throw the address length into the longest match engine if = you wish and it will simply consume it and if correctly programmed will = return the correct result. Thus any of the address definitions that do = not contain discontinuous substructure such as the cases with inbuilt = segment routing can be looked up in a common hardware address = recognition engine without analysis of the first byte. =20 Now I think that it is worth looking at case 1 and 2 above and noting = there is some applicability to both the short address cases and the = segment routing case with short addresses that you propose. =20 Of course it is very difficult to do an accurate analysis these cases = because the packet design that FlexIP is going to be used with is not = referenced by the drafts. =20 Let us assume a tiny packet: =20 14B of MAC header (Lora is 13 to 28, Ethernet is 14) 8B of UDP 2B of payload =20 That is 24B + NW layer (the addresses plus the overhead) =20 Now consider IPv6 which is pretty minimalist for a connectionless packet = apart from the size of its addresses. =20 IPv6 is 40B=20 =20 So total of 64B for the packet which is the benchmark since it is the = IETF plan of record for most applications. =20 If we reduce the addresses to 1B (the minimum in these drafts) i.e. = subtract 32 - 2 =3D 30 so best case is packet of 34B.=20 =20 That is a useful saving 47% which might be important in some specialist = applications where bandwidth or radio energy was important, however = much depends on what the practical size of the payload in, and what = options or extensions are in the packet to fulfil the communications = needs. So for example if I were to need an additional 20B of packet = option and payload the saving is reduced to 36% reducing to 20% saving = if 100B were needed. A 20% saving is not worth the cost and complexity = of changing the packet. =20 So, to understand the benefit of reducing the address size and = presumably using it in an as yet undefined packet format it is necessary = for the authors to describe the application for small standalone = addresses (as opposed to address suffixes) in a lot more detail than is = provided in the scenarios document, in particular the size of the = transport layer, and the size of the expected payload. Additionally it = is necessary that they describe the details of the network layer packet = and its MAC environment. =20 Once more detail is know, we will know whether there is a case for small = native addresses or whether we should focus our attention on how to map = such addresses as suffixes of a larger well known address type such as = IPv6. =20 - Stewart= --Apple-Mail=_FC2C6DE1-03FE-44CA-B6E5-9BAB15CBB61D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
 
Re = drafts:
 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-a=
ddress-structure/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jia-flex-ip-address-stru=
cture/
I have a number of comments these drafts, but in = this email I would like to focus on the small address proposal. By this = I mean addresses that are shorter than 64bits.
 
It seems to me that there are 3 = operational reasons for small addresses:
 
1) = That you might be worried about the amount of packet taken up by the = addresses.
 
2) That you might be worried about the = amount of energy required to send a packet.
 
3) = That you want to use an address that is somehow native to a legacy = application.

=E2=80=A6 = and there are at least to implementation reasons:

4) That you = might be worried about the amount of memory in the FIB.
 
5) = That you might wish to optimise out the FIB = hardware. 
 
There = are two approaches to the case of addresses that are are relatively = short, where for the purposes of this discussion I define =E2=80=9Crelativ= ely short=E2=80=9D as an address between 8 and 64 bits in = length.

One approach is to design and implement a new = packet type, be that an original design, or the repurposing of a = suitable existing non-IP design. If that is what you have in mind it = would greatly assist consideration of your work if you published that = design in the IETF, or at least pointed to it as an accessible document. = That would allow us to debate the properties of the packet and or your = address proposal in the context of the packet design. An alternative = approach which needs to be considered is to make the FlexIP address a = suffix of an existing and well known address type such as IPv6. In such = a case by standardising the corresponding IPv6 prefix you may produce = implementation simplifications, or alternatively by making it a prefix = well known in the domain you construct quite an effective leakage = prevention mechanism.

Consider the IPv6 suffix = case. Validating a = well-know prefix before invoking the address lookup machinery is a = simple efficient process using either one of more compare operators, or = some hw technique such as a special register. Certainly we could build = hw to look up a small set of well-known prefixes that burns a lot less = energy than used in a full address lookup. So that brings us to looking = up the suffix and, by definition the table used to do that is = small.
In other = words most of the efficiency of doing a short address lookup can be = maintained even if the address is the suffix of a longer address = provided that the implementation is optimised for this case.
 
I = think that argument covers much of use cases 3, 4 and 5. This applies to = your Indexes 1..EF, F0, F1 and F2 in your propose address design.
 
In = your F5 case a longest match engine will work by definition on a = variable length address, provided it is short enough that sufficient = addresses from the primary address space can be deployed to this. Note = that you can throw the address length into the longest match engine if = you wish and it will simply consume it and if correctly programmed will = return the correct result. Thus any of the address definitions that do = not contain discontinuous substructure such as the cases with inbuilt = segment routing can be looked up in a common hardware address = recognition engine without analysis of the first byte.
 
Now = I think that it is worth looking at case 1 and 2 above and noting there = is some applicability to both the short address cases and the segment = routing case with short addresses that you propose.
 
Of = course it is very difficult to do an accurate analysis these cases = because the packet design that FlexIP is going to be used with is not = referenced by the drafts.
 
Let us assume a tiny packet:
 
14B = of MAC header (Lora is 13 to 28, Ethernet is 14)
8B of = UDP
2B = of payload
 
That is 24B + NW layer (the addresses = plus the overhead)
 
Now consider IPv6 which is pretty = minimalist for a connectionless packet apart from the size of its = addresses.
 
IPv6 is 40B 
 
So = total of 64B for the packet which is the benchmark since it is the IETF = plan of record for most applications.
 
If = we reduce the addresses to 1B (the minimum in these drafts) i.e. = subtract 32 - 2 =3D 30 so best case is packet of 34B. 
 
That = is a useful saving 47% which might be important in some specialist = applications where bandwidth or radio energy was important, however =  much depends on what the practical size of the payload in, and = what options or extensions are in the packet to fulfil the =  communications needs. So for example if I were to need an = additional 20B of packet option and payload the saving is reduced to 36% = reducing to 20% saving if 100B were needed. A 20% saving is not worth = the cost and complexity of changing the packet.
 
So, = to understand the benefit of reducing the address size and presumably = using it in an as yet undefined packet format it is necessary for the = authors to describe the application for small standalone addresses (as = opposed to address suffixes) in a lot more detail than is provided in = the scenarios document, in particular the size of the transport layer, = and the size of the expected payload. Additionally it is necessary that = they describe the details of the network layer packet and its MAC = environment.
 
Once more detail is know, we will know = whether there is a case for small native addresses or whether we should = focus our attention on how to map such addresses as suffixes of a larger = well known address type such as IPv6.
 
- = Stewart
= --Apple-Mail=_FC2C6DE1-03FE-44CA-B6E5-9BAB15CBB61D-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 06:32:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B1C3A11AE; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:31:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id chjVNI-YAvWo; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:31:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB7C33A11AD; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id l12so7942675wry.2; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:31:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=qoZiuvDEjiWJbWsxrSL7o3MCp/OCY0lxP/iiwVN6jpo=; b=gSz3sjT0wFZ13oFGTn/i4R5TO8fHlnrKfG1U0WIO/2y/XxBfossHDyx85Z0bMlC1eB mTks2+735/gH5sodLIs6xiWdq89m8V63Dz6hnBOU4icd5w6av77l25dqqddlzmdcZVVh 7dPOjDwuFeDfcn4aXGZDwL2RsA3HKYeQGLngqtmTqpbhpnXa1wsrM6WQvMDorA5kaw6a e1yJoWGaXeribRuY6ktwuhoIjvT7i3plthtxcP/j5SF/QvMizSxSkLo5yLQKfjPWvoOr FVtxQtwdABZwiqIqsWV74GKuhbKtJFewjjhgYoT79l3TVhaZYLfhEYlAzxfkB39R/8Oq JeLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=qoZiuvDEjiWJbWsxrSL7o3MCp/OCY0lxP/iiwVN6jpo=; b=EcunSurlPlQ6Jb/HxVfRv+QTFWuWsXAv0oJeuMZLoeDiRrXBQN/FcMH0aZTvzI1o1L rM2vsb6qi2IDHZZTB3ZlU3/rpjVH0h4gQMptvTBN7PZ9V8kvXe7nC6vqHOkL4wDpgnZq XYXPAY15/qfuan/vuTKzZ/v2J0oyeuPsbPQ0k1nSZ065ctpJP0OtyT+mEbMYU5wO3YUl 0bRkf/GTlNnVldH93qFFFc5Zd0hMjlT1KfFf0ew4QUgkVnM+Fq8zhRA/u18T4LIpXN+U QmOPckfTuNotN/rEXT/aV/7a2q8thONB4Fsv4m+6Hh6ceYCHf7M2C+2yjO1sR2DKXRzS TO0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533QxrML3H7Hz/eFWD7908bFJPHCeJfDpTFGpbMGOUpnDwOppUwP xDZkuf6jc9wvJY7iJAygJdk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzr9YD+05U5JySt45u0e+Ca4e+GZmzHwTfQqo/vdQmMl1hemEOQUIV13PAlA91JHX7cEkcz6Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4806:: with SMTP id l6mr5474561wrq.389.1612535511862; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:1895:ed47:463:a394]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm13361533wra.80.2021.02.05.06.31.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:31:51 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Message-Id: <67CB9F82-7D06-4F22-98A2-CFBD5CFF8116@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A7D8DC0D-F5E6-4F64-8D5D-5DBF40142CD9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 14:31:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> Cc: Stewart Bryant , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , Lin Han To: Jiayihao References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:31:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A7D8DC0D-F5E6-4F64-8D5D-5DBF40142CD9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao wrote: >=20 > - As mentioned in "http://acticom.de/internet-of-things-iot/ = ", a typical payload size = equals just around 25 bytes per IPv6 datagram. Thus typically the saving = rate will be ((14+10+25)-(14+40+25))/(14+40+25)=3D38%. So typically, a = 38% saving may be a good motivation for having a short address. However, = we'd like to postpone quantitative analysis after we have a rough = consensus on problems due to addressing aspects.=20 Sorry, but I think you have to discuss the quantitive aspects of the = problem as part of understanding whether this is worth doing or not. You have to ask if a 38% saving is worth the huge CAPEX and OPEX costs = and feed that into the discussion. If we are going to argue for short packets that is another matter, and = that would not simply be an addressing discussion. For example in a lot of applications the traffic is between a device and = a gateway. If we allowed an out of band session setup we could support = something like 500K sessions in the network with just a 4 byte network = header. So classic Ether + Classic IPv6 + 25 =3D 79B Reduced address in IPv6 =3D 49B (0.62 of size) 4B n/w layer =3D 43B (0.54 of size) So about 50% is the best we can achieve. Of course many of you will = realise that there exists a 4B session oriented packet format and is one = that almost every router already supports. I think that this means that we need to have the conversation about = small addresses within a much bigger context in terms of style of = network communication and intended outcome and the scenarios document = does not really do that analysis, but if the goal is simply minimum = address size we do have an approach that we could in principle deploy = today between a device and a gateway, and we should explore that. If the requirements is a connectionless service then we really have to = understand how to balance the economic cost of deploying a new packet = design against a 38% saving of packet size. Best regards Stewart --Apple-Mail=_A7D8DC0D-F5E6-4F64-8D5D-5DBF40142CD9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao <jiayihao@huawei.com>= wrote:

- As = mentioned in "http://acticom.de/internet-of-things-iot/", a typical = payload size equals just around 25 bytes per IPv6 datagram. Thus = typically the saving rate will be = ((14+10+25)-(14+40+25))/(14+40+25)=3D38%. So typically, a 38% saving may = be a good motivation for having a short address. However, we'd like to = postpone quantitative analysis after we have a rough consensus on = problems due to addressing = aspects. 

Sorry, but I think you have to discuss the quantitive aspects = of the problem as part of understanding whether this is worth doing or = not.

You have = to ask if a  38% saving is worth the huge CAPEX and OPEX costs and = feed that into the discussion.

If we are going to argue for short = packets that is another matter, and that would not simply be an = addressing discussion.

For example in a lot of applications the traffic is between a = device and a gateway. If we allowed an out of band session setup we = could support something like 500K sessions in the network with just a 4 = byte network header.

So classic Ether + = Classic IPv6 + 25 =3D 79B
   Reduced address in IPv6 =           =3D 49B (0.62 of = size)
   4B n/w layer           =            =3D 43B (0.54 of = size)

So about 50% = is the best we can achieve. Of course many of you will realise that = there exists a 4B session oriented packet format and is one that almost = every router already supports.

I think that this means that we need to = have the conversation about small addresses within a much bigger context = in terms of style of network communication and intended outcome and the = scenarios document does not really do that analysis, but if the goal is = simply minimum address size we do have an approach that we could in = principle deploy today between a device and a gateway, and we should = explore that.

If= the requirements is a connectionless service then we really have to = understand how to balance the economic cost of deploying a new packet = design against a 38% saving of packet size.

Best regards

Stewart






= --Apple-Mail=_A7D8DC0D-F5E6-4F64-8D5D-5DBF40142CD9-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 06:46:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F36C3A1207; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:46:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2obE4AmhVx6L; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65F3D3A11EA; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id 190so6245404wmz.0; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:46:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=HTmxIjM9eDD1AO0bbHdCt6tazotQzM7ght25QkLkTpo=; b=SEG9ORfNzl1Lf2QvRzt+NGLED+3GjX3I126+7TxkUa5QGbQbV6Lg0+0IPvUyjt64js UNLszW3jSSfxiyq3fJ45yc/kadRdfKGHXnZUt4JwSChSEMNZJy2rYcPWhO9zAqukR85m i1YvPE4yl0Y0sNlKJtZFvkSKeR6upUqonPi8IGBrUuwMi/Nw5XrtQcHt9cK0JXAUEFZO 2c7HTLqd4nCLiPva3aFRp5KAbILq5LLyvEgG4vhcItyHo2+FXoLi0Znchnm0Rrxvuv2c +QrAkTgmvU/53TjALsfJvo851h/q8flvKiLcxfvuaNLOeIMkYJXVGLk75NIwtyXVkwjp e/ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=HTmxIjM9eDD1AO0bbHdCt6tazotQzM7ght25QkLkTpo=; b=jAFrWsqRGqk3c8JH+BImCRGArxXvAmX4T4rn4hHcJ9ahZsfkmXtV2dkNpUQTYCJMF2 f2PXooWgrqNAFhDkI1CSc29WhGHnq9OMlEmYlMoWrqBY3dmCEAJqPwA4g2gO+6I4VF6o XKFBciEKJU/iro7VVQeJOVlyKirKq1nKkpIhqdtmqbBStZ0M6fHBLQxJrvK4NTGStm0e F0hrgy8z9WiaHD6fr7+0ZM3AlQfzow0g8pKT6meHvCpAnVk2cBZKuRGB4pivTaU2hrYR tOtVuec9PekmUoD0cbhYLhVWdoF2wqbtGuCk4JjPvWnZPiLSbFcwGkojZaztQGgkrQZy r+pw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533tLRWWcNOrgNk3sJQ4i9zqDXoW8Rh5c38YWQvGxdquDDM2oi8a twUUFUma89Wq21Szk/+1OPA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxgy3Pat++bQmpXhZAy1U9a0V82POfTWGs/j+QHP9GAtLv0M05AWh4swrl/G4YyZ50yKJR8IQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:22c8:: with SMTP id 8mr3840947wmg.11.1612536383654; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:4405:51c9:cf5c:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d10sm12068042wrn.88.2021.02.05.06.46.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:46:23 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Message-Id: <58156BC9-6153-4C43-81B8-9E7F38AADE56@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B369B634-95A0-4FC1-B228-EA86842A1CFE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 14:46:20 +0000 In-Reply-To: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> Cc: Stewart Bryant , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , Lin Han To: Jiayihao References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:46:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B369B634-95A0-4FC1-B228-EA86842A1CFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao wrote: >=20 > =20 > - The header format could be described either in separate draft or be = included in previous draft. The reason we have not provide a header = format yet is that the address format itself is already a complex topic, = so it's better for us to discuss the address first (as well as the = problems and gaps), thus we can have a better understanding if a = flexible address structure is a promising way to go. Again I disagree, you cannot entirely divorce the discussions. The problem has to be solved as a whole and decisions about the packet = effect decisions about the address structure. For example if the new = packet is much larger than IPv6 the case for short addresses becomes = even weaker. If I look at the address design that you have proposed this is dominated = by the short address constraints. If short addresses (in the physical = sense rather than a logical sense where they are the suffix of a larger = address) turn out to be a trivial efficiency saving, then we would = almost certainly use another address design. For example
as used in ISO 8474 is an extremely = extensible format at a cost of a two byte overhead, and would allow the = address designers to proceed independently from the packet designers and = develop new address types during the deployment lifetime of the = protocol. This is unlike the approach in the drafts we are discussing = where a lot of discussions are proposed up front and where the = development of the address architecture is significantly constrained. Best regards Stewart --Apple-Mail=_B369B634-95A0-4FC1-B228-EA86842A1CFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao <jiayihao@huawei.com>= wrote:

 
- The header format = could be described either in separate draft or be included in previous = draft. The reason we have not provide a header format yet is that the = address format itself is already a complex topic, so it's better for us = to discuss the address first (as well as the problems and gaps), thus we = can have a better understanding if a flexible address structure is a = promising way to go.

Again I disagree, you cannot entirely divorce = the discussions.

The problem has to be solved as a whole and decisions about = the packet effect decisions about the address structure. For example if = the new packet is much larger than IPv6  the case for short = addresses becomes even weaker.

If I look at the address design that = you have proposed this is dominated by the short address constraints. If = short addresses (in the physical sense rather than a logical sense where = they are the suffix of a larger address) turn out to be a trivial = efficiency saving, then we would almost certainly use another address = design.

For = example <len><family><address> as used in ISO 8474 is = an extremely extensible format at a cost of a two byte overhead, and = would allow the address designers to proceed independently from the = packet designers and develop new address types during the deployment = lifetime of the protocol. This is unlike the approach in the drafts we = are discussing where a lot of discussions are proposed up front and = where the development of the address architecture is significantly = constrained.

Best regards

Stewart



= --Apple-Mail=_B369B634-95A0-4FC1-B228-EA86842A1CFE-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 06:58:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA36B3A1213; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:58:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rzd4azr1COSz; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9456C3A1221; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 06:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id l12so6274919wmq.2; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:58:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=hCa1OqCFwa/Nl30dTiTMusqwDLxkIyw3iEWPP9gotGA=; b=ORawHo/FNvcIQFC4V4CxHC0VLFLXyZuV6EvnK5705bwc3iz3DCeobpN5kSmQ1AMrRX htQXlRhVsj4PN46yxuSHXV3L9FSnYYT66++a+v79ZHKyismGgv9WCKwKvOwSsRuaW6P4 SniJENb3npR96b/WQC09UnkmwovlK0Kwt0j6RyzYTdQ6t+sjit60ea5LuZYi0WHxOJNd qFqA8OLLPtRk7Ha0hU3EzagTiuc1iFUD9B6a8snGqV4ROmHrfKWrprb7+j0o9Auen2EY TrWE2XhaE68/wMwFuum+6/UvFSOT9eF2TYPCBXjNGBj5GsVyawTcSuEt9anyqKLImeKB arzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=hCa1OqCFwa/Nl30dTiTMusqwDLxkIyw3iEWPP9gotGA=; b=MMb7bBi8g1l89u54uoWJQGq2Yc1SaNJLLDd0zDYqcKhGUPvzEiFZaZDLH9bEfB/2+8 i73s5vek6HhlRUVQ5wN8RWvFQbEHAvxnAC7vnbgRDRI1SGTQ9JS4v0NQ1lD2lGAfmHe+ 5YPyWrHetXfCXlXMVZvfE8xoe+9EXZfGZyu89LopF+9/6JLj5XhcmxfNy4oC+DwyycAM UgpNCxHSyxSKAXe2fgNcQNWKUqcy6mexCEJbXECxCAY9JXELiJDrx69rF2C2hnAX/kg5 i8I11Ydw1dSkpI0DMxwgx/lf5g8gABNmaAqNfn+h1xbkLcyYbCPe4r4lsuDyCKHqmPLO Xuvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VE4ntoL0mjPIBnUucFjEl7WB9ZWjtzHF52PABjyPnGaBVWS+N HsrO2CnOOsD/fVPd//N8AVc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJynMCwRrXeCppI5BGTMifCtxtbrGgVHK9UEbwP+IPbxbv7JLhUbzSCpZdpi7+9uLXwnIqZAsQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:8083:: with SMTP id b125mr3927349wmd.188.1612537124073; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:58:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:4405:51c9:cf5c:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j14sm14452612wrd.36.2021.02.05.06.58.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 06:58:43 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B40EF36E-B1A2-4BCE-81B0-5DC71B9798C0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 14:58:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> Cc: Stewart Bryant , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , Lin Han To: Jiayihao References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 14:58:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B40EF36E-B1A2-4BCE-81B0-5DC71B9798C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao wrote: >=20 > - Indeed, the network scale of limited domain is supposed to be less = that IPv6, but it doesn't mean the address space should be strictly less = than 128-bit. If the space of the address is abundant enough, the public = key could be embedded without truncation (compare to CGA in IPv6) for = certain security purpose. Interesting, what are the advantages in adding the signature of the = address in the address as opposed to carrying it in a different field? The disadvantage is that you bind the address to the signature algorithm = which you would not want to do since you would expect to change the = signature algorithm during the lifetime of the protocol. Also would you really want to feed the signature into the longest match = engine? Of course you could and there are some advantages in that you = look up both the address and it signature, but I think you loose longest = match capability and you significantly increase the size of the TCAM or = other FIB design memory, and that memory is very expensive as it = determines the line rate of the forwarder. So this points back to the need for a holistic discussion of what we are = trying to achieve, the extent to which modifying existing protocols = satisfies that need, and whether (given the presupposed need for a = gateway) we should be looking for a single protocol, a family of = protocols, or an adaptable protocol. I don=E2=80=99t think we can design the addressing system in the absence = of a discussion on those points. Best regards Stewart --Apple-Mail=_B40EF36E-B1A2-4BCE-81B0-5DC71B9798C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao <jiayihao@huawei.com>= wrote:

- Indeed, the = network scale of limited domain is supposed to be less that IPv6, but it = doesn't mean the address space should be strictly less than 128-bit. If = the space of the address is abundant enough, the public key could be = embedded without truncation (compare to CGA in IPv6) for certain = security purpose.

Interesting, what are the advantages in adding the signature = of the address in the address as opposed to carrying it in a different = field?

The = disadvantage is that you bind the address to the signature algorithm = which you would not want to do since you would expect to change the = signature algorithm during the lifetime of the protocol.

Also would you really = want to feed the signature into the longest match engine? Of course you = could and there are some advantages in that you look up both the address = and it signature, but I think you loose longest match capability and you = significantly increase the size of the TCAM or other FIB design memory, = and that memory is very expensive as it determines the line rate of the = forwarder.

So = this points back to the need for a holistic discussion of what we are = trying to achieve, the extent to which modifying existing protocols = satisfies that need, and whether (given the presupposed need for a = gateway) we should be looking for a single protocol, a family of = protocols, or an adaptable protocol.

I don=E2=80=99t think we can design the = addressing system in the absence of a discussion on those = points.

Best = regards

Stewart


= --Apple-Mail=_B40EF36E-B1A2-4BCE-81B0-5DC71B9798C0-- From nobody Fri Feb 5 10:25:00 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C433A0E22; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKZh1lI_J7ie; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A6503A0E1F; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id m1so6642185wml.2; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=X8JAfh7tLQRQ0ixdXKdgY3U9llor2bueNzZ0z0KAWAM=; b=Mu3jbU9V89Lq8flncLIFgqMKdE+I/Vc1iDFLsq4HuULotEkqheUei8DSn0n5VtN3uP Lepix1lApxPgaPcUMNUWewqk7snMAPAN/w8nm9VbtH6j6+xViJfPwWiHDstKE4A6dK5m w+YbEN0gDr0xUT23Z4aI2FNswPo+bp6AM9eE1VG2rHWr9oGzbZ7weJvkcZAXXmfwwsmG NqUeUqTXAL1ydSdeCyuvq6rcZG6NJMJcmGZnwT6oxQAVU4kk+sNlBGNd2EpLNsu+UCII G/hSiXMpVabmrtzR83m8WhejZtQH2+dkaoI/Wqq2Z3MjXwC17yXJOXAHtJtXprMsFn4E WXzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=X8JAfh7tLQRQ0ixdXKdgY3U9llor2bueNzZ0z0KAWAM=; b=j7aOTVM+iRCfMElg5RK34+D6FkLV7sK2ixq8ScLRlSWTz5VY9PhyOQ3fSG9V/Pb7Hp qeGkR9JS/Rz3OawFa7414wNL44M0Lu7ErzCRjfS1OUiL/NII/pr2cASAE+fJs3Dpap97 no3RzXC0b/doxZ5upr5ghS4MK2gQ/xL47B+cWaDuv0/aiabzI2TnjUe/st4hIplBbeYo 3uRg6l1hf1gdKB5adsZKqDujYMpZeC4p0HcRBKIvxQOKCngaNlhZGUNrY9Y203Ksr+RX yiBo6lGI+LXEdd7SYRBd8MdjAsqMgs5gat4rcXKEecJSUCw5IJ0A71Rb8r77qlSaXOKc 1ZGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532C0rhbBa/E+uYo5XMB45Z4Ypp1F1ddm4vfiXZkb+giI5wL0j4P qyMSRHej+jg/7pWBjKUPmci0l3/Mi+pWlQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwRiFt5SAENEhSgTNym/6Zcw16XWOdORL08ZBjzAZnJ87lJuPLK52U6hSPhe6SdywZhyAsEMg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:a957:: with SMTP id s84mr4591720wme.166.1612549494731; Fri, 05 Feb 2021 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:e83f:f200:1e3c:2cf7]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d23sm9546181wmd.11.2021.02.05.10.24.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Feb 2021 10:24:54 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Message-Id: <8EFF0C7E-32B2-4C30-B27A-6C165BA7A30B@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E87FE328-9084-4838-8BE2-F75252ED1E5B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:24:52 +0000 In-Reply-To: <854102e6d17441fcabb16748245b18af@huawei.com> Cc: Stewart Bryant , Jiayihao , Lin Han , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" To: Dirk Trossen References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> <854102e6d17441fcabb16748245b18af@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:24:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E87FE328-9084-4838-8BE2-F75252ED1E5B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Dirk There may be some material that you can use from https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bryant-arch-fwd-layer-uc-01 And=20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bryant-arch-fwd-layer-ps/ - Stewart > On 5 Feb 2021, at 15:12, Dirk Trossen wrote: >=20 > Stewart, all, > =20 > As Yihao pointed out, we are working on an update to the draft to = focus the discussion on the communication scenarios and problems arising = in those scenarios. In that sense, we agree with your desire for a = holistic discussion and see this upcoming update as one of the next = towards that. > =20 > With that in mind, I suggest that we continue the discussions after = this upcoming update since it is not the intention at this stage to = propose any solutions or constrain any thinking about solutions but to = agree that problems may exist that will need to be addressed. > =20 > Best regards, > =20 > Dirk > =20 > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart = Bryant > Sent: 05 February 2021 15:59 > To: Jiayihao > Cc: Lin Han ; = draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org; int-area = ; flexip@ietf.org; sarikaya2012@gmail.com; = draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao > wrote: > =20 > - Indeed, the network scale of limited domain is supposed to be less = that IPv6, but it doesn't mean the address space should be strictly less = than 128-bit. If the space of the address is abundant enough, the public = key could be embedded without truncation (compare to CGA in IPv6) for = certain security purpose. > =20 > Interesting, what are the advantages in adding the signature of the = address in the address as opposed to carrying it in a different field? > =20 > The disadvantage is that you bind the address to the signature = algorithm which you would not want to do since you would expect to = change the signature algorithm during the lifetime of the protocol. > =20 > Also would you really want to feed the signature into the longest = match engine? Of course you could and there are some advantages in that = you look up both the address and it signature, but I think you loose = longest match capability and you significantly increase the size of the = TCAM or other FIB design memory, and that memory is very expensive as it = determines the line rate of the forwarder. > =20 > So this points back to the need for a holistic discussion of what we = are trying to achieve, the extent to which modifying existing protocols = satisfies that need, and whether (given the presupposed need for a = gateway) we should be looking for a single protocol, a family of = protocols, or an adaptable protocol. > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t think we can design the addressing system in the = absence of a discussion on those points. > =20 > Best regards > =20 > Stewart > =20 > =20 --Apple-Mail=_E87FE328-9084-4838-8BE2-F75252ED1E5B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear = Dirk

There may be = some material that you can use from

And 

- Stewart

On 5 Feb = 2021, at 15:12, Dirk Trossen <dirk.trossen@huawei.com> wrote:

Stewart, all,

 

As Yihao pointed out, we are working on an update = to the draft to focus the discussion on the communication scenarios and = problems arising in those scenarios. In that sense, we agree with your desire for a holistic discussion and = see this upcoming update as one of the next towards that.

 

With that in mind, I suggest that we continue the = discussions after this upcoming update since it is not the intention at = this stage to propose any solutions or constrain any thinking about solutions but to agree that problems = may exist that will need to be addressed.

 

Best regards,

 

Dirk

 

From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant
Sent: 05 February 2021 15:59
To: Jiayihao <jiayihao@huawei.com>
Cc: Lin Han <lin.han@futurewei.com>; draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org; int-area = <int-area@ietf.org>; flexip@ietf.org; sarikaya2012@gmail.com; draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] The small address use case in = FlexIP

 

 



On 5 Feb 2021, at 12:06, Jiayihao = <jiayihao@huawei.com> wrote:

 

- Indeed, the network scale of limited domain is supposed to = be less that IPv6, but it doesn't mean the address space should be = strictly less than 128-bit. If the space of the address is abundant enough, the public key could be embedded = without truncation (compare to CGA in IPv6) for certain security = purpose.

 

Interesting, what are the = advantages in adding the signature of the address in the address as = opposed to carrying it in a different field?

 

The disadvantage is that you bind = the address to the signature algorithm which you would not want to do = since you would expect to change the signature algorithm during the = lifetime of the protocol.

 

Also would you really want to = feed the signature into the longest match engine? Of course you could = and there are some advantages in that you look up both the address and = it signature, but I think you loose longest match capability and you significantly increase the size of the TCAM or other FIB design = memory, and that memory is very expensive as it determines the line rate = of the forwarder.

 

So this points back to the need = for a holistic discussion of what we are trying to achieve, the extent = to which modifying existing protocols satisfies that need, and whether = (given the presupposed need for a gateway) we should be looking for a single protocol, a family of protocols, or an adaptable = protocol.

 

I don=E2=80=99t think we can = design the addressing system in the absence of a discussion on those = points.

 

Best regards

 

Stewart

 

 


= --Apple-Mail=_E87FE328-9084-4838-8BE2-F75252ED1E5B-- From nobody Sun Feb 7 14:19:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64F53A1238; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:12:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7RwgnLAImRCs; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E8223A1236; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml735-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.200]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DXJgS1bgPz67kbT; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 23:07:32 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggemi760-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.146) by fraeml735-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.216) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 16:12:16 +0100 Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) by dggemi760-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 23:12:13 +0800 Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.201.68.196]) by lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.201.68.196]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:12:11 +0000 From: Dirk Trossen To: Stewart Bryant , Jiayihao CC: Lin Han , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP Thread-Index: AQHW+8983QgEtIk60kOK5cU8FWUTUKpJqfSQ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:12:11 +0000 Message-ID: <854102e6d17441fcabb16748245b18af@huawei.com> References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.48.217.125] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_854102e6d17441fcabb16748245b18afhuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 14:19:32 -0800 Subject: Re: [Flexip] [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: 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--_000_854102e6d17441fcabb16748245b18afhuaweicom_-- From nobody Sun Feb 7 14:28:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD333A0E72 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q2iU-RH2LRKS for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1D0C3A0E22 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C00D625BB for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:28:07 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id v42mCwSyQu+A for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:28:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 847BE62569 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:28:02 -0500 (EST) To: flexip@ietf.org From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <757f5ab4-8304-a72c-8e3c-8c10c19120d1@labs.htt-consult.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:28:00 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] Admin items X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 22:28:12 -0000 To all members of the Flexip interest group list: I just realized today the *I* am the admin for this list that I had set up back in 11/18 when I was under contract with Huawei, working on Flexip.  The resent posts are the first since 8/19. I have released one message waiting for admin action. jiayihao@huawei.com, I have an admin email about and email you sent 2/5 7am ET, but I do not see it in the admin queue, please resend it. More importantly, I am not working on Flexip these days.  Nor do I have the cycles to attend to it, as Unmanned (and Manned) aircraft comm is taking up more time than I have. So.... I am asking someone currently having a vested interest in Flexip to contact me, and I will work with IETF to hand off admin functions to you. Thank you. Robert Moskowitz From nobody Mon Feb 8 19:39:22 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05093A188A; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 19:39:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6i-kYzNUdJI9; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 19:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 553D53A1884; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 19:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DZT743JjNz67m6g; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:35:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggemi711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.110) by fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.215) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 04:39:06 +0100 Received: from dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.145) by dggemi711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.110) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:39:04 +0800 Received: from dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.145]) by dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.145]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:39:04 +0800 From: Jiayihao To: Stewart Bryant CC: int-area , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" , "flexip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: The small address use case in FlexIP Thread-Index: Adb+lRq8bhXAB77uTtacQg0udOtOUw== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 03:39:04 +0000 Message-ID: <68749199f08b4d288dce213047ed2611@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.167.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_68749199f08b4d288dce213047ed2611huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 03:39:13 -0000 --_000_68749199f08b4d288dce213047ed2611huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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YW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_68749199f08b4d288dce213047ed2611huaweicom_-- From nobody Mon Feb 8 22:40:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13DD53A1979 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:40:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-FPYirqirgK for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com 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DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0509.000; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:40:44 +0800 From: "Liguangpeng (Roc, Network Technology Laboratory)" To: "flexip@ietf.org" CC: Jiayihao Thread-Topic: mailing list test Thread-Index: Adb+rnYrmDRRN4wsSoqp3FwcMdLvTw== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 06:40:43 +0000 Message-ID: <6F4E6B0C717D4641A2B79BC1740D8CF4A8FB73AB@DGGEMM533-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.235.213] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6F4E6B0C717D4641A2B79BC1740D8CF4A8FB73ABDGGEMM533MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] mailing list test X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 06:40:57 -0000 --_000_6F4E6B0C717D4641A2B79BC1740D8CF4A8FB73ABDGGEMM533MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello --_000_6F4E6B0C717D4641A2B79BC1740D8CF4A8FB73ABDGGEMM533MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello

--_000_6F4E6B0C717D4641A2B79BC1740D8CF4A8FB73ABDGGEMM533MBXchi_-- From nobody Mon Feb 8 22:57:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74393A11A4 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:57:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kNitOWouxMn for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C9ED3A11A3 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.226]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DZYVD4pFWz67lkV for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:52:20 +0800 (CST) Received: from nkgeml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.158) by fraeml734-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.215) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 07:57:13 +0100 Received: from nkgeml708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.160) by nkgeml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:57:11 +0800 Received: from nkgeml708-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.160]) by nkgeml708-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.160]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:57:10 +0800 From: Dangjuanna To: "flexip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: test the mail Thread-Index: Adb+sMPZz5w0dMgyT02blZlFxLze8A== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 06:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <11123df3a793410c8b2dd3f8ef45d5a1@huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.235.250] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_11123df3a793410c8b2dd3f8ef45d5a1huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] test the mail X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 06:57:17 -0000 --_000_11123df3a793410c8b2dd3f8ef45d5a1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mailtest --_000_11123df3a793410c8b2dd3f8ef45d5a1huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

mailtest

--_000_11123df3a793410c8b2dd3f8ef45d5a1huaweicom_-- From nobody Tue Feb 9 00:00:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A3C3A1238 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 00:00:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u38bW3twBBRC for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 00:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7982F3A0FD3 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 00:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml739-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.206]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DZZsB5c2yz67llq for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:53:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggemi711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.110) by fraeml739-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.220) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 09:00:22 +0100 Received: from dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.145) by dggemi711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.110) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:00:20 +0800 Received: from dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.145]) by dggemi759-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.145]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:00:20 +0800 From: Jiayihao To: "flexip@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: test Thread-Index: Adb+uZjfKpJADsZcSxa7CTpft6ncXA== Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 08:00:20 +0000 Message-ID: <82be6eeb4e524db4a5520a431427e4e5@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.167.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_82be6eeb4e524db4a5520a431427e4e5huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Flexip] test X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:00:26 -0000 --_000_82be6eeb4e524db4a5520a431427e4e5huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable test --_000_82be6eeb4e524db4a5520a431427e4e5huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

test

 

--_000_82be6eeb4e524db4a5520a431427e4e5huaweicom_-- From nobody Tue Feb 23 00:56:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: flexip@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE2663A28BC; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:56:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HI5Hw3l6Zyn4; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDB463A28BB; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.207]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4DlCVT3l5Wz67rJR; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:52:33 +0800 (CST) Received: from dggemi710-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.109) by fraeml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:56:33 +0100 Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) by dggemi710-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2106.2; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:56:30 +0800 Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.201.68.196]) by lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.201.68.196]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.006; Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:56:28 +0000 From: Dirk Trossen To: Stewart Bryant , Jiayihao CC: Lin Han , "draft-jia-flex-ip-address-structure@ietf.org" , int-area , "flexip@ietf.org" , "sarikaya2012@gmail.com" , "draft-jia-scenarios-flexible-address-structure@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP Thread-Index: AQHW+8983QgEtIk60kOK5cU8FWUTUKpJqfSQgBvhx1A= Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:56:28 +0000 Message-ID: <14664f2d8e4f4c87b45af98668bd6947@huawei.com> References: <727cfc33b0cb41acaeacc21a33c39d4d@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.48.219.60] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_14664f2d8e4f4c87b45af98668bd6947huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Flexip] [Int-area] The small address use case in FlexIP X-BeenThere: flexip@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Flexible Internet addressing and Flexible routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 08:56:43 -0000 --_000_14664f2d8e4f4c87b45af98668bd6947huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U3Rld2FydCwgYWxsLA0KDQpZb3UgbWF5IGhhdmUgbm90aWNlZCB0aGF0IHdlIGRpZCBzdWJtaXQg dGhlIG1lbnRpb25lZCB1cGRhdGUgdG8gdGhlIGRyYWZ0LCBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgaHR0cHM6Ly9k YXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtamlhLWludGFyZWEtc2NlbmFyaW9zLXByb2Js ZW1zLWFkZHJlc3NpbmcvLiBJIGhvcGUgdGhpcyBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYSBmZXcgcG9pbnRzIGRpc2N1 c3NlZCBzbyBmYXIuDQoNCkJlc3QsDQoNCkRpcmsNCg0KDQpGcm9tOiBEaXJrIFRyb3NzZW4NClNl bnQ6IDA1IEZlYnJ1YXJ5IDIwMjEgMTY6MTMNClRvOiAnU3Rld2FydCBCcnlhbnQnIDxzdGV3YXJ0 LmJyeWFudEBnbWFpbC5jb20+OyBKaWF5aWhhbyA8amlheWloYW9AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBM aW4gSGFuIDxsaW4uaGFuQGZ1dHVyZXdlaS5jb20+OyBkcmFmdC1qaWEtZmxleC1pcC1hZGRyZXNz LXN0cnVjdHVyZUBpZXRmLm9yZzsgaW50LWFyZWEgPGludC1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnPjsgZmxleGlw QGlldGYub3JnOyBzYXJpa2F5YTIwMTJAZ21haWwuY29tOyBkcmFmdC1qaWEtc2NlbmFyaW9zLWZs 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