From nobody Mon Nov 2 08:58:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E46A1B49B6 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:58:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QB82XJWB34OK for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppsw-41.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-41.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52A041B49B9 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:58:45 -0800 (PST) X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from cpc7-camd13-2-0-cust256.hari.cable.virginm.net ([94.173.123.1]:65012 helo=Richards-MacBook-Pro.local) by ppsw-41.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.157]:587) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:rd459) (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) id 1ZtIRP-00018Y-Qt (Exim 4.86_36-e07b163) for gaia@irtf.org (return-path ); Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:58:43 +0000 To: gaia From: Richard Dent Message-ID: <56379642.8070407@cam.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 16:58:42 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070100090003040700080901" Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Tim Berners-Lee new project Solid X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:58:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070100090003040700080901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit https://www.csail.mit.edu/solid_mastercard_gift *"Specifically, the gift will help him and his team develop technologies for “Solid ,” a system for building decentralized social applications using what the researchers call a “linked-data” platform. Solid is customizable and easy to scale, relying as much as possible on existing web standards. Like multiuser applications, applications on Solid talk to each other through a shared filesystem – and, in this case, that filesystem is the entire World Wide Web.* *"Right now we have the worst of both worlds, in which people not only cannot control their data, but also can’t really use it, due to it being spread across a number of different silo-ed websites,” says Berners-Lee. “Our goal is to develop a web architecture that gives users ownership over their data, including the freedom to switch to new applications in search of better features, pricing, and policies.”* *In contrast with cloud-storage companies like Dropbox and Google Drive, Solid doesn’t own each user’s data. And unlike other emerging open-source efforts like OwnCloud , Solid offers a generic platform on which developers can build virtually any kind of application."* ------------------------- PhD Candidate Department of Sociology University of Cambridge www.openaccessphd.com @richarddent Tel: 07827 537537 --------------070100090003040700080901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit https://www.csail.mit.edu/solid_mastercard_gift

"Specifically, the gift will help him and his team develop technologies for “Solid,” a system for building decentralized social applications using what the researchers call a “linked-data” platform. Solid is customizable and easy to scale, relying as much as possible on existing web standards. Like multiuser applications, applications on Solid talk to each other through a shared filesystem – and, in this case, that filesystem is the entire World Wide Web.

 

"Right now we have the worst of both worlds, in which people not only cannot control their data, but also can’t really use it, due to it being spread across a number of different silo-ed websites,” says Berners-Lee. “Our goal is to develop a web architecture that gives users ownership over their data, including the freedom to switch to new applications in search of better features, pricing, and policies.”

 

In contrast with cloud-storage companies like Dropbox and Google Drive, Solid doesn’t own each user’s data. And unlike other emerging open-source efforts like OwnCloud, Solid offers a generic platform on which developers can build virtually any kind of application."



-------------------------
PhD Candidate
Department of Sociology
University of Cambridge

www.openaccessphd.com
@richarddent
Tel: 07827 537537
--------------070100090003040700080901-- From nobody Wed Nov 4 04:34:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAB361B2E6A for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 04:34:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.33 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MILVsr8lrwpw for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 04:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.ictp.it (smtp2.ictp.it [140.105.16.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909241B2E69 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 04:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.ictp.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03BF7400E3F9 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:34:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp2.ictp.it Received: from smtp2.ictp.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.ictp.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with LMTP id B1uMcseloD3F for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:34:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from [140.105.28.21] (unknown [140.105.28.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp2.ictp.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 597EA4012511 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:34:37 +0100 (CET) From: Marco Zennaro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AEF12141-EC37-4FCE-AE55-A426DD0C7562" Message-Id: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:34:37 +0100 To: gaia@irtf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.0 \(3094\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094) Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Connecting the Poor Is the Best Hope for Ending Poverty | WIRED X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:34:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AEF12141-EC37-4FCE-AE55-A426DD0C7562 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii h= ttp://www.wired.com/2015/11/connecting-worlds-poorest-the-best-hope-for-en= ding-poverty/=20 Best, Marco=20= --Apple-Mail=_AEF12141-EC37-4FCE-AE55-A426DD0C7562 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii http://www.wired.com/2015/11/connecting-worlds-poorest-the-best-hope-for-ending-poverty/

Best,
Marco 
--Apple-Mail=_AEF12141-EC37-4FCE-AE55-A426DD0C7562-- From nobody Thu Nov 5 13:41:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E924D1B2E00 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 13:41:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVHi5YCX7lpi for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 13:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D96971B3384 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 13:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfgh9 with SMTP id h9so63798711lfg.1 for ; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 13:41:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6FE7nqUETw8R4HRe69OWFdr1eHTYTV3G2mNFJpeYRew=; b=p9kiugC3JTghhkty8noJwbW8Y8y2oYvqPZMyKB0YBCBoevBFKA91WaJlN/Aavx6goZ xkYW/P7vXSm7AuMeIye09tm5qR3cH/5k6fYTwwK8jA3LxKDS+h0FWZqb24YQWr4TkbAq cr7iuO7s8f2xcEZ61uooK+TsX3Znh9XIBGOcoLs1gcNNWXi0OME12ytDUsJDfgJgmHZx sr2Gr2Xm36ZFK6ZhMre2qSmebQoaqyY/kP97TZkewvaREF/4BBj2VfpICxfbHfs0LDMT 0tiMhARmZ5KaGRMqjw3aXrSUo3boV5VFXdHXh9vqlGYYOyUv5x1ivV8nXRVUCzsf8npO bC4A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.137.4 with SMTP id l4mr1989968lfd.121.1446759704950; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 13:41:44 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.13.163 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 13:41:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:41:44 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FfnfMixxOlBgv8fMyk_ljY-3woY Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113fb6044a02c60523d1fe1c Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] A4AI: What are the models of mobile data services available in developing countries? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 21:41:53 -0000 --001a113fb6044a02c60523d1fe1c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 an excellent report on the different mobile plans in developing countries: http://a4ai.org/new-research-what-are-the-models-of-mobile-data-services-available-in-developing-countries/ -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --001a113fb6044a02c60523d1fe1c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --001a113fb6044a02c60523d1fe1c-- From nobody Wed Nov 11 05:39:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30ADF1ACDA0 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 05:39:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8HPj7ercYvfl for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 05:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing3.cpt4.host-h.net (outgoing3.cpt4.host-h.net [197.189.247.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 574391ACD9F for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 05:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from www60.cpt1.host-h.net ([196.40.97.160]) by antispam2-cpt4.host-h.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwVbY-0004gh-Ip for GAIA@irtf.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:38:58 +0200 Received: from [189.76.98.121] (helo=121.98.evento.nic.br) by www60.cpt1.host-h.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1ZwVbP-0007UN-EI for GAIA@irtf.org; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:38:21 +0200 From: Enrico Calandro X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2C8F728-6C0D-4A96-8482-C4607FDDF58A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:38:12 -0300 References: To: GAIA@irtf.org Message-Id: <3F0C83C1-5E79-4E07-9CF1-B73818A20DED@researchICTafrica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Authenticated-Sender: ecalandro@researchictafrica.net X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.98.7/21052/Wed Nov 11 07:35:22 2015) X-Filter-ID: s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIfNzQM26w3gNSP5olcKYfeDEkwUq4XS+cJOL2dhc/fJK1RCgBVsCZvBW zNHbKtbqlh2TiRYL0rq3uZflRQaGchWtUUnWjpA3wCMH/SXDO6mQO623jgkQljSQLdDTLsFSalQH WESzgMufUnn5ayodKoun0otAQee9/URVQNWpZ50pBiUz9TQ/DPU9+znj8SWO6C3ZRqAkX1F1v9e0 j707REO0sxL1x5SvbumW7qkpuwkm5YE5enyccp7RH4WQio3uGUFosIqL/d3zad3JBySqWTnPeKtk fHxfAEz9pn6OixAB9R/2gMGq0KWAzmMf+ibVDscGmorjzKXGIaPZinOPrH2ONFUeHBT4wlsDupDP BU6JrOjsBxSo3OuQ7WRDUhbxp93VCqH9NShRUdnEmPrDsFsQlWJe0U60wQ68Gc/VWTfXNhgHQroO kidrO97l7NA/5TbI9GTcfUTgA1F03UGU8jmslpYNyd7pxOheeKq0liHZx4Bc6L7T/kZfexg1gcVj Z7dICGXOEwhA7Uihpasp7UWDqE+X/czcI5QK7VzPhB1S3uZqp/GhFZcyJGS+fSYOW/cItqrGoeSq xLUyuthWxGutI4g+l6rCWbY0MZcgnbHsDzT5J86/BKSciuP00jzmrMerV8/v3Z8DAM5zeRPcrBnA s0zilynQVSX8xqUd9Yo2 X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@antispammaster.host-h.net X-Filter-Fingerprint: IFrWXGses7OKB5S5G8/dJRn/7L7+nnclbWGk7OJ1jHJA3cTUQ1R++keuE7RDJ8Kg3RbMLUalw1oC mj99/u+PoqoVy8a3lsStJtAvpObFX0W9pwnCLfzqMQ4SqlQant4mUpndEJ0YoaLytXXo8BMTaVt0 ARHRi6XGuAluI1udprFy32DUYpEhA3j9NJFmItfypuoazoDH3m92PL21GfhFYWcYmGLKZUTyGy/B A6iJtsD8WFC+rpTT4JYvoDjVeZUw3fI9smEy0EupqfCN6sn6Zg== X-Originating-IP: 196.40.97.160 X-SpamExperts-Domain: researchictafrica.net X-SpamExperts-Username: Authentication-Results: host-h.net; auth=pass (login) smtp.auth=@researchictafrica.net X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.09) X-Recommended-Action: accept Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Fwd: [Intersessional_2015] IGF Main Session Today at 2pm - BP and Connecting the Next Billion X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 13:39:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B2C8F728-6C0D-4A96-8482-C4607FDDF58A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4C992AF9-126A-477D-A223-4D76163907F6" --Apple-Mail=_4C992AF9-126A-477D-A223-4D76163907F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I think some of you may be interested to attend the following session = which will be held at the Internet Governance Forum in a few hours. For = remote participation see http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf2015-cast Enrico -- Enrico Calandro (PhD) Senior Research Fellow at Research ICT Africa www.researchictafrica.net Begin forwarded message: From: Constance Bommelaer Subject: [Intersessional_2015] IGF Main Session Today at 2pm - BP and = Connecting the Next Billion Date: 11 November 2015 09:52:29 GMT-3 To: MAG-public , = "intersessional_2015@intgovforum.org" = Cc: "bp_counteringabuse@intgovforum.org" = , "bp_spam@intgovforum.org" = , "bp_certs@intgovforum.org" = , "bp_ipv6@intgovforum.org" = , "bp_ixps@intgovforum.org" = , "bp_multistakeholder@intgovforum.org" = Dear Colleagues, This is a reminder that the Main Session on "Best Practices = = and Policy Options for Connecting the Next Billion = " will be held this afternoon at 2pm. in the Main Hall. After the presentation of the different IGF 2015 output documents, = participants will be invited to weigh in. You are all welcome to join. = The latest script of the session is available below. Thanks to all who = helped develop it. Best regards, Constance ------ 1. Chair [provided by the Host Country] Mr. Maximiliano Martinh=E3o, Secretary of Telecommunications, Ministry = of Communications of Brazil 2. Moderator(s) H.E. Benedicto Fonseca (Brazil), Constance Bommelaer (ISOC) and Lee = Hibbard (CoE) 3. Panelists and agenda High-Level Remarks =96 Lenni Montiel, UN Assistant Secretary-General for = Economic Development in the Department of Economic and Social Affairs =96 = 5 min Welcome and Introduction =96 Constance Bommelaer, Senior Director, ISOC = =96 5/10 min The importance of strengthening the IGF IGF issues and the broader context: Sustainable Development Summit, = WSIS+10, etc. Types of outcomes: Policy Options, Best Practices, methodology and = post-2015 perspectives LEE HIBBARD moderates Defining the issue =96 Dr. Pepper, Vice President, Global Technology = Policy, Cisco 5/10 min What does Connecting the Next Billion entail? Why is this issue important and what are the challenges? Policy Options for Connecting the Next Billion Overview of the complete findings =96 Brian Gutterman, Assistant = Programme Manager, IGF Secretariat =96 10 min Pointer to short synthesis (hard copies available in the room) Perspectives from the regions, i.e. regional/national IGFs Makane Faye, = Chief, Knowledge Management and Library Services, UNECA - 5 min Call for representatives of national/regional IGF leaders and other = contributors/participants to weigh in =96 40 min open to all volunteers: Avri Doria, APC; Carolyn Nguyen, Technology = Policy ad Strategy, Microsoft; Alice Siu, Stanford; Tomas Lamanauskas, = Head, Corporate Strategy, ITU; Manu K. Bhardwaj US State Department, = Jack Deasy, O3B Networks, Kevin Martin, VP, Facebook, etc. AMBASSADOR FONSECA moderates IGF Best Practices and how they help Connect the Next Billion - 60 min. Leaders of IGF Best Practices report on outcome of their work (around 5 = min), its importance in Connecting the Next Billion, and proposed next = steps for IGF work: Multistakeholder mechanisms - Avri Doria, APC Mitigating Spam - Julia Cornwell McKean, Manager at Office of the = Children's eSafety Commissioner in Australia Establishing CSERTs - Christine Hoepers, General manager at = CERT-br/NIC.br Enabling IPv6 - Izumi Okutani, Policy Liaison JPNIC and Susan Chalmers Establishing successful IXPs =96 Malcom Hutty, Head of Public Affairs = (tbc), Lynx, and Jane Coffin, Director, ISOC Countering abuse against women online - Jac Kee, Women=92s Rights Policy = Coordinator, APC and Subi Chatuverdi, Adjunct Faculty and DGM Corporate = Communications Question to the audience - Which Best Practices should be developed = going forward, how they would be relevant to Connect the Next Billion? The way forward =96 Vint Cerf, Father of the Internet 5/10 min What are the emerging trends/challenges to Connect the Next Billion? How can the IGF catalyze global initiatives What should be the role of the IGF in tackling issues and how should its = community continue to shape its outputs in a relevant and useful way? Q&A with the audience Conclusion =96 H.E. Benedicto Fonseca, Brazil =96 5 min _______________________________________________ Intersessional_2015 mailing list Intersessional_2015@intgovforum.org = http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/intersessional_2015_intgovforum.or= g --Apple-Mail=_4C992AF9-126A-477D-A223-4D76163907F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 I think some of you may be interested to attend the following = session which will be held at the Internet Governance Forum in a few = hours. For remote participation see http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/igf2015-cast
Enrico

-- 
Enrico Calandro = (PhD)
Senior = Research Fellow at Research ICT Africa


Begin forwarded = message:

From: = Constance Bommelaer <bommelaer@isoc.org>
Subject: = [Intersessional_2015] IGF Main Session Today at 2pm - BP and = Connecting the Next Billion
Date: = 11 November 2015 09:52:29 = GMT-3

 

Dear Colleagues,


This is a reminder that the Main Session on "Best Practices and  Policy Options for Connecting the Next Billion" will = be held this afternoon at 2pm. in the Main Hall.


After the presentation of the different IGF 2015 = output documents, participants will be invited to weigh in. You are all = welcome to join. The latest script of the session is available = below. Thanks to all who helped develop it. 


Best regards,

Constance


------



1.         Chair [provided by the Host Country]

 

Mr. = Maximiliano Martinh=E3o, Secretary of Telecommunications, Ministry of = Communications of Brazil
 
 
2.         = Moderator(s)
 
H.E. Benedicto Fonseca = (Brazil), Constance Bommelaer (ISOC) and Lee Hibbard = (CoE)

 

3.         Panelists and agenda

 

High-Level Remarks =96 Lenni Montiel, UN = Assistant Secretary-General for Economic Development in the Department = of Economic and Social Affairs =96 5 min
 
Welcome and = Introduction =96 Constance = Bommelaer, Senior Director, ISOC =96 5/10 min
  • The importance of strengthening the = IGF
  • IGF issues and the broader context: = Sustainable Development Summit, WSIS+10, etc.
  • Types of outcomes: Policy Options, = Best Practices, methodology and post-2015 = perspectives

 

LEE HIBBARD moderates

 

Defining the = issue =96 Dr. Pepper, Vice = President, Global Technology Policy, Cisco 5/10 min =
  • What does Connecting the Next Billion = entail?
  • Why is this issue important and what = are the challenges?

 

Policy Options for Connecting = the Next Billion
  • Overview of the complete findings =96 Brian Gutterman, = Assistant Programme Manager, IGF Secretariat =96 10 = min
  • Pointer to short synthesis (hard = copies available in the room)
  • Perspectives from the regions, i.e. = regional/national IGFs Makane Faye, Chief, Knowledge Management and = Library Services, UNECA - 5 min
  • Call for representatives of = national/regional IGF leaders and other contributors/participants to = weigh in =96 40 min
    • open to all volunteers: Avri Doria, APC; Carolyn Nguyen, = Technology Policy ad Strategy, Microsoft; Alice Siu, Stanford; Tomas = Lamanauskas, Head, Corporate Strategy, ITU; Manu K. Bhardwaj US State = Department, Jack Deasy, O3B Networks, Kevin = Martin, VP, Facebook, etc.
 
AMBASSADOR FONSECA = moderates

 

IGF Best Practices and how they help Connect the Next = Billion - 60 min.
  • Leaders of IGF Best Practices report on outcome of their = work (around 5 min), its importance in Connecting the Next Billion, and = proposed next steps for IGF work:
    • Multistakeholder mechanisms - Avri Doria, APC
    • Mitigating Spam - Julia Cornwell McKean, Manager at Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner in = Australia
    • Establishing CSERTs - Christine Hoepers, General manager at CERT-br/NIC.br
    • Enabling = IPv6 - Izumi Okutani, Policy = Liaison JPNIC and Susan Chalmers
    • Establishing = successful IXPs =96 Malcom = Hutty, Head of Public Affairs (tbc), Lynx, and Jane Coffin, Director, = ISOC
    • Countering = abuse against women online - Jac Kee, Women=92s = Rights Policy Coordinator, APC and Subi Chatuverdi, Adjunct Faculty and = DGM Corporate Communications
  • Question to the audience - Which Best Practices should be = developed going forward, how they would be relevant to Connect the Next = Billion?

 

The way forward =96 Vint Cerf, Father of = the Internet 5/10 min
  • What are the emerging trends/challenges to Connect the Next = Billion?
  • How can the IGF catalyze global initiatives
  • What should be the role of the IGF in tackling issues and = how should its community continue to shape its outputs in a relevant and = useful way?
  • Q&A with the audience

 

Conclusion =96 H.E. Benedicto = Fonseca, Brazil =96 5 min







_______________________________________________
Intersessional_2015 mailing list
Intersessional_2015@intgovforum.org
http://intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/intersessional_2015_int= govforum.org







= --Apple-Mail=_4C992AF9-126A-477D-A223-4D76163907F6-- --Apple-Mail=_B2C8F728-6C0D-4A96-8482-C4607FDDF58A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJWQ0TEAAoJEP7Qs32sMggXak4P/Ru5QUoLKWhyX79QNpwcupgA 2FaPXJygmNv+mn3D9WAQ4wH2tRMYcmYB8gnBm1+h8A8fIgtc7Uu0DMt1g9XzG7CR AlocCWbMqCU4MF+L7AJ14RAoWPNLtyxuxgfgEn57T24fr+zrP5tbFPjUejG9eGKL C7fiGCLrc1kCmbSGfGgnWaqIlJ21LA9kWNJ68DorC8sl5hY5InYbM8706xC4pRpF AGt3WIJELUteBOYPAmc1/jQcyERC9/DAakWg64ZuvudRS9W2uBfAVZ/tItOLBnk2 akLnA26pEMmwv5GIR1ynutpBBvlAIWSgGaj8QMaXzbecFT3rczJdF3WmRsludnZi KzGD38/Qg1+oNm8MGqrtBa+BMXHIJeNoEiYRnzdzmAcQkaNK0nZxFaivvgs0rtVX xTLHM3+kGKqdV53cumRoDRaZTZqIiLC3KGI946+9zDg6gyUx3fh8RlvVwgZagkN5 GT5QmwP0knE2tFtrCiFQ+OtjkPY9nZyxYj+q2N3X7jJmtHsY9B5m7/YAQt5b+oHF Ys1Ftzh1uMWg4XrNXOJ8mFt8xDOHTogSqQ/Oev/7fYUkZsYy1aVCO/sRdIwo0Zt6 /lQCR4LtpQQ1O7xwMizejRkc+/L9nrxSQsNeNlCr9OaS9mGmwyyJqLKkDATrrKrd pnBj0cx5T7NDic+RduKX =WFhj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B2C8F728-6C0D-4A96-8482-C4607FDDF58A-- From nobody Wed Nov 11 18:34:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C2891A1B51 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zE2njHIRG3ZQ for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x22f.google.com (mail-lb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B93C41A1B4E for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by lbbcs9 with SMTP id cs9so27292977lbb.1 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=HU1opJHMk5iaknQ32Q3BOlJRu55y8JlQQwfkUEZekwY=; b=Wai9XkOktrEngm/Fw/E01ZPFa4yil0W+k3wolUFxAkU8u5v7HSmY2EkGRkgkWTaOcL nYc1ZZ8kYn/ouv6Lo4F2Bdf14Cx+5nXfHjCLNm8kxvwRGY23+5ScNgfy/K5rUfjXiFK2 qst+WNZYeg73ulP4xSik8fRqnYiNpRartTD859py8M5b2oVroyi9iXGFSNRDMfP+2EiQ x/aHFY6ZcfjedfzFliPuUudaBtopE7kyKzFAGgB27f6b5tANbdMtUdEObRpbE1U1Jwxk ALZ3ZV6O+9X0wbm6wiqSwD/EdDbuB3U1e48zCDfql9Fi2IxXtmTjZv6Rr3qeOH/pnWOZ HMWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.129.161 with SMTP id nx1mr5893391lbb.112.1447295672826; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:32 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.173.161 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:34:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 02:34:32 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: w380_HOSJNAbpLNqiy7esrVIclA Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a8f6076c49b05244ec84b Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] ACM DEV X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 02:34:36 -0000 --047d7b3a8f6076c49b05244ec84b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 all - The early registration ends on Nov 15 - so please do register if you want to attend the IRTF GAIA workshop and DEV: http://acmdev.org/ many thanks arjuna -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --047d7b3a8f6076c49b05244ec84b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
all -

The early =C2=A0registration ends= on Nov 15 - so please do register if you want to attend the IRTF GAIA work= shop and DEV: http://acmdev.org/

many thanks
arjuna
--047d7b3a8f6076c49b05244ec84b-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 02:12:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74081A8A9E for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iFQPgiC7d479 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD4501A8A91 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by lffu14 with SMTP id u14so49761894lff.1 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=E3XsC+6joQs5B1Yhpuwzz+rWlj6B9UkkS7UZYiK0Wlo=; b=XKv4eT8pTmlt2Bc+xcQ9xLYSiNW1EFdSHhPsM3+PXyvH0kWeETtcHgoq/K9CZpo/ZM F2NHv8C34kUz+Wa07fzD2tY62LJY6Ghw5ep5SVuAe8qpwLvDeYZoDr/AeTCrsGPIwg7T vpXOTFc7N36hObkCowmejf4Y/a8K1mbdB9jmsoAT75vk/MqnmMQYx2TPGTEY9FGjkhAf kCWTb6GqKBFiy6DRtT3yPh8EtDU9usxaAoeuN+QpwXORCUEYfdNatSuV38o/SBMUUOOZ TvX/mn0chs7HUZfLFGTgGdmOr9IHaabYXIYC/P5G3zlPBSZmZle5ErWEfwejQKi9dnKG OK2w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.126.5 with SMTP id z5mr9627123lfc.112.1447409558888; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.173.161 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 02:12:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:12:38 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cqJ-WammMeqRHCp2eRRMl3WGeQo Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113eadb89a26d10524694c37 Archived-At: Cc: Marco Zennaro Subject: [gaia] Workshop on New Frontiers in IoT X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:12:42 -0000 --001a113eadb89a26d10524694c37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 all, The Telecommunications/ICT4D Laboratory (T/ICT4D) of the Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics (ICTP, Trieste, Italy), in collaboration with the University of Cambridge, the University College London, and the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA), are organizing a "Workshop on New Frontiers in Internet of Things", to be held at the ICTP, Trieste, Italy, from 7 to 18 March 2016. This Workshop is co-sponsored by the International Telecommunications Union, Telecommunication Development Sector (ITU-D), the Internet Society (ISOC) and the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA). If you are interested in attending, we have fully funded positions - apply here: http://indico.ictp.it/event/7601/ For any queries, please contact me or Marco Zennaro (cc-ed). Regards -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --001a113eadb89a26d10524694c37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
all,
The Telecommunications/ICT4D Laboratory (T/ICT4D) = of the Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics (ICTP, Trie= ste, Italy), in collaboration with the University of Cambridge, the Univers= ity College London, and the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (= UNECA), are organizing a "Workshop on New Frontiers in Internet of Thi= ngs", to be held at the ICTP, Trieste, Italy, from 7 to 18 March 2016.= This Workshop is co-sponsored by the International Telecommunications Unio= n, Telecommunication Development Sector (ITU-D), the Internet Society (ISOC= ) and the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA).

If you are interested in attending, we have fully funded positions - app= ly here: http://indico.ictp.i= t/event/7601/

For any queries, please contact = me or Marco Zennaro (cc-ed).

Regards

--
--001a113eadb89a26d10524694c37-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 03:59:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881EF1ACDD7 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 03:58:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.331 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WbRC7O2fydE for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 03:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.iit.cnr.it (mx4.iit.cnr.it [146.48.98.151]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D888F1ACDD9 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 03:58:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02A8B805A1 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:58:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mx4.iit.cnr.it Received: from smtp.iit.cnr.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29DwFXgQlgf3 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:58:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp108.iit.cnr.it (dhcp108.iit.cnr.it [146.48.99.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C3B62B8109C for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:58:20 +0100 (CET) From: Andrea Passarella Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:58:22 +0100 To: gaia@irtf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 03:59:42 -0800 Subject: [gaia] Less than one month left: CFP SI of Elsevier Pervasive and Mobile Computing on Pervasive Social Computing X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 11:58:29 -0000 Dear all, please find enclosed a reminder for a special issue I'm co-organising on = Elsevier PMC. Several topics discussed in GAIA could fit well I think. Feel free to get in touch if you need any information. Best, Andrea ******** * * LESS THAN ONE MONTH TO THE DEADLINE * ******** CALL FOR PAPERS Elsevier =E2=80=93 Pervasive and Mobile Computing Special Issue on Pervasive Social Computing = http://www.journals.elsevier.com/pervasive-and-mobile-computing/call-for-p= apers/ Submission Deadline: 30 November 2015 Pervasive Social Computing represents a new paradigm resulting from the convergence of Pervasive Mobile Computing with Social Networking; it aims to take advantage of human social relationships to enable the attainment of users' tasks in different domains. On the one hand, the impressive diffusion of Online Social Networking platforms is making OSNs a pervasive tool for maintaining social relationships between people. On the other hand, the diffusion of mobile personal devices with rich networking and computing capabilities is fostering novel patterns of users interactions through social networks, also depending on the dynamic context and locations of the users. Last but not least, pervasive mobile technologies enable completely novel types of social networking applications and services, such as Mobile Social Networks. The enormous potential of Pervasive Social Computing is leading scientific communities in different disciplines, from computer science to social science, communication science and economy, to analyze, study and provide new theories, models, methods, technological solutions and case studies. Interestingly, more and more Pervasive Mobile Computing technologies are designed using inter-disciplinary approaches, that exploit models of the users personal and social behavior to design algorithms, protocols, services and applications. The special issue aims to encourage the multidisciplinary discussion involving academics, researchers and professionals on theories, approaches, analysis, design and evaluation of services and networking solutions for Pervasive Social Computing. Researchers are increasingly interested in addressing a wide range of Pervasive Social Computing challenges residing in Social networks and Social Computing systems including: their architecture, algorithms and protocols for social networking services, the creation of new analysis models, the monitoring of emerging trends, studies on trust, privacy and security issues and their potential applications. The list of topics includes, but is not limited to: - Security, privacy and trust in Pervasive Social Computing systems - Innovative Pervasive Social Computing services and applications - Architectures, algorithms and protocols for Pervasive Social Computing systems - Mobile networking solutions for Pervasive Social Computing - Context modeling, reasoning and context awareness in Pervasive Social Computing - Pervasive sensing technologies applied to Pervasive Social Computing - Opportunistic networking for Pervasive Social Computing - Innovative Mobile Social Networking technologies and services - Inter-disciplinary approaches to the design of Pervasive Social Computing systems - Analysis of users social interactions in mobile and pervasive social networks - Novel Online Social Networking services and users=E2=80=99 behaviors = enabled by pervasive mobile networks - Real experiences and experiments with Pervasive Social Computing systems and applications - Opportunistic and transient social interactions in Pervasive Social Computing systems - Social and economic models for Pervasive Social Computing systems - Pervasive and social collaboration tools - Impacts of Pervasive Social Computing on users=E2=80=99 behaviour in different domains (e.g. e-business, e-market, e-learning, e-health) Schedule Submission deadline: November 30th, 2015 Initial feedback to authors: March 31st, 2016 Revised papers due: May 15th, 2016 Final authors notification: June 30th, 2016 Expected Publication of the Special Issue: 4th Quarter 2016 Guest Editors Patrizia Grifoni, IRPPS-CNR, Italy Fernando Ferri, IRPPS-CNR, Italy Alessia D=E2=80=99Andrea, IRPPS-CNR, Italy Tiziana Guzzo, IRPPS-CNR, Italy Andrea Passarella, IIT-CNR, Italy Instructions for submission=20 All submissions have to be prepared according to the Guide for Authors as published in the Journal website at http://www.ees.elsevier.com/pmc/. Authors should select =E2=80=9CSI: PSC=E2=80=9D, from the =E2=80=9CChoose = Article Type=E2=80=9D pull-down menu during the submission process. All contributions must not have been previously published or be under consideration for publication elsewhere. A submission based on one or more papers that appeared elsewhere has to comprise major value-added extensions over what appeared previously (at least 30% new and significant material). Authors are requested to attach to the submitted paper their relevant, previously published articles and a summary document explaining the enhancements made in the journal version. In addition, such papers must be referenced, and the difference clearly explained, in the submitted paper. For further information, please contact the guest editors at pmc-psc at = iit.cnr.it --=20 Andrea Passarella -- Institute for Informatics and Telematics (IIT) National Research Council (CNR) Via G. Moruzzi, 1 voice: +39 050 315 3269 56124 Pisa, Italy fax: +39 050 315 2593 @/sip: a.passarella@iit.cnr.it mobile: +39 346 0082 540 http://cnd.iit.cnr.it/andrea =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Just Published! V. Arnaboldi, A. Passarella, M. Conti, R.I.M. Dunbar Online Social Networks: Human Cognitive Constraints in Facebook and = Twitter Personal Graphs Elsevier, October 2015 = http://store.elsevier.com/Online-Social-Networks/Valerio-Arnaboldi/isbn-97= 80128030233/ From nobody Fri Nov 13 07:32:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@irtf.org Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6743F1ACE01; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:31:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.9.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151113153159.17901.41602.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:31:59 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: gaia@irtf.org Subject: [gaia] I-D Action: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:31:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Global Access to the Internet for All Working Group of the IETF. Title : Alternative Network Deployments. Taxonomy, characterization, technologies and architectures Authors : Jose Saldana Andres Arcia-Moret Bart Braem Ermanno Pietrosemoli Arjuna Sathiaseelan Marco Zennaro Filename : draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2015-11-13 Abstract: This document presents a taxonomy of "Alternative Network deployments", and a set of definitions and shared properties. It also surveys the technologies employed in these network deployments, and their differing architectural characteristics. The term "Alternative Network Deployments" includes a set of network access models that have emerged in the last decade with the aim of bringing Internet connectivity to people, using topological, architectural and business models different from the so-called "traditional" ones, where a company deploys or leases the network infrastructure for connecting the users, who pay a subscription fee to be connected and make use of it. Several initiatives throughout the world have built large scale Alternative Networks, using predominantly wireless technologies (including long distance) due to the reduced cost of using the unlicensed spectrum. Wired technologies such as fiber are also used in some of these alternate networks. The emergence of these networks can be motivated by different causes such as the reluctance, or the impossibility, of network operators to provide wired and cellular infrastructures to rural/remote areas. In these cases, the networks have self sustainable business models that provide more localized communication services as well as Internet backhaul support through peering agreements with traditional network operators. Some other times, networks are built as a complement and an alternative to commercial Internet access provided by "traditional" network operators. The present classification considers different existing network models such as Community Networks, which are self-organized and decentralized networks wholly owned by the community; networks owned by individuals who act as Wireless Internet Service Providers (WISPs); networks owned by individuals but leased out to network operators who use them as a low-cost medium to reach the underserved population, and finally there are networks that provide connectivity by sharing wireless resources of the users. Different criteria are used in order to build a classification as e.g., the ownership of the equipment, the way the network is organized, the participatory model, the extensibility, if they are driven by a community, a company or a local stakeholder (public or private), etc. According to the developed taxonomy, a characterization of each kind of network is presented in terms of specific network characteristics related to architecture, organization, etc. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 13 07:51:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2541ACE3A for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:51:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YxqTuZ0_F94Y for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from huecha.unizar.es (huecha.unizar.es [155.210.1.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2C6D1ACE59 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by huecha.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id tADFpLm3023526 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:51:21 +0100 From: "Jose Saldana" To: Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:51:29 +0100 Message-ID: <023f01d11e2b$293d8660$7bb89320$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AdEeKTPyw05tq3ryRM+4BXpN2AZU5Q== Content-Language: es X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] New version of draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:51:32 -0000 Hi all, We have just uploaded a new version of the "Alternative Networks" draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploym ents/ (former "manyfolks draft"). These are the main improvements with respect to the previous version: - We have added a mini sub-section 1.2 stating that "alternative networks" are those networks different from "traditional networks". - We have exchanged the order of previous sections 2 and 3. We think the document reads better now. - We have put the "Criteria for the classification" as a new section (3). - We have removed all the "deployment experiences" in order to include them in a new draft (see another thread in the list). We will ask for volunteers for writing this draft in the list. - We have added some references about GSM, and fixed a typo with a reference in wired networks. Feel free to send your comments in the list. Best regards, Jose Saldana & the rest of the authors > -----Mensaje original----- > De: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de internet-drafts@ietf.org > Enviado el: viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015 16:32 > Para: i-d-announce@ietf.org > CC: gaia@irtf.org > Asunto: [gaia] I-D Action: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Global Access to the Internet for All Working Group > of the IETF. > > Title : Alternative Network Deployments. Taxonomy, characterization, > technologies and architectures > Authors : Jose Saldana > Andres Arcia-Moret > Bart Braem > Ermanno Pietrosemoli > Arjuna Sathiaseelan > Marco Zennaro > Filename : draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt > Pages : 31 > Date : 2015-11-13 > > Abstract: > This document presents a taxonomy of "Alternative Network > deployments", and a set of definitions and shared properties. It > also surveys the technologies employed in these network deployments, > and their differing architectural characteristics. > > The term "Alternative Network Deployments" includes a set of network > access models that have emerged in the last decade with the aim of > bringing Internet connectivity to people, using topological, > architectural and business models different from the so-called > "traditional" ones, where a company deploys or leases the network > infrastructure for connecting the users, who pay a subscription fee > to be connected and make use of it. > > Several initiatives throughout the world have built large scale > Alternative Networks, using predominantly wireless technologies > (including long distance) due to the reduced cost of using the > unlicensed spectrum. Wired technologies such as fiber are also used > in some of these alternate networks. > > The emergence of these networks can be motivated by different causes > such as the reluctance, or the impossibility, of network operators to > provide wired and cellular infrastructures to rural/remote areas. In > these cases, the networks have self sustainable business models that > provide more localized communication services as well as Internet > backhaul support through peering agreements with traditional network > operators. Some other times, networks are built as a complement and > an alternative to commercial Internet access provided by > "traditional" network operators. > > The present classification considers different existing network > models such as Community Networks, which are self-organized and > decentralized networks wholly owned by the community; networks owned > by individuals who act as Wireless Internet Service Providers > (WISPs); networks owned by individuals but leased out to network > operators who use them as a low-cost medium to reach the underserved > population, and finally there are networks that provide connectivity > by sharing wireless resources of the users. > > Different criteria are used in order to build a classification as > e.g., the ownership of the equipment, the way the network is > organized, the participatory model, the extensibility, if they are > driven by a community, a company or a local stakeholder (public or > private), etc. > > According to the developed taxonomy, a characterization of each kind > of network is presented in terms of specific network characteristics > related to architecture, organization, etc. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploym ents/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments- 02 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploy ments-02 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until > the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia From nobody Fri Nov 13 07:52:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1841ACECC for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:52:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JjhivRYSwtOx for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ortiz.unizar.es (ortiz.unizar.es [155.210.1.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F36591ACEC6 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 07:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by ortiz.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id tADFqKTO007352 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:52:20 +0100 From: "Jose Saldana" To: Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 16:52:28 +0100 Message-ID: <024901d11e2b$4c5bd9d0$e5138d70$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_024A_01D11E33.AE21A160" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AdEeKvuIy46dXluCRZKBZtuxLVScuA== Content-Language: es X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Alternative Networks: a draft about deployment experiences (the "Deployment Draft") X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:52:32 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D11E33.AE21A160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, As you may have seen, we have just uploaded a new version of the "Alternative Networks" draft. It includes a number of definitions, and a taxonomy of these networks. During the GAIA session in Prague some people suggested that we could build a long document, with the aim of sharing deployment experiences. So our current proposal is to write another document collecting deployment experiences of Alternative Networks. This second document would be much longer than the first draft, and it would follow the classification and definitions included in it. Therefore, we would like to ask for volunteers for collaborating in this second draft. We may call it "the Deployment Draft". Contributors should be people with experience on real alternative network deployments, and the idea is to write something that can be useful for further deployments: recommendations about protocols to use, antennae, architectures, setups, IP addressing, routing, etc. Some of the authors of the first draft have already agreed on participating on this one. In fact, we also have some content about antennae, physical links and some protocols. Best regards and thanks in advance, Jose ------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D11E33.AE21A160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 <= /span>

As you may have seen, we have just uploaded a new version of the = “Alternative Networks” draft. It includes a number of = definitions, and a taxonomy of these networks.

 

During the GAIA session = in Prague some people suggested that we could build a long document, = with the aim of sharing deployment experiences. So our current proposal = is to write another document collecting deployment experiences of = Alternative Networks.

 

This second document would be much = longer than the first draft, and it would follow the classification and = definitions included in it.

 

Therefore, we would like to ask for volunteers for collaborating = in this second draft. We may call it “the Deployment Draft”. = Contributors should be people with experience on real alternative = network deployments, and the idea is to write something that can be = useful for further deployments: recommendations about protocols to use, = antennae, architectures, setups, IP addressing, routing, = etc.

 

Some of the authors of the first draft have already agreed on = participating on this one. In fact, we also have some content about = antennae, physical links and some protocols.

 

Best regards and thanks in advance,

 

Jose

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D11E33.AE21A160-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 13:50:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38B61B32EB for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:50:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id peUMQAEr9iOQ for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nm31-vm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm31-vm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.216.217]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B00A1B32E7 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:50:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.br; s=s2048; t=1447451403; bh=18xvK2lBjrDljoh7HXCbNHONVF7ZtUude9YOUQcTUSU=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=QCjtS7TSgrg3HFRlFOsJzfh5kFo500hyuNIGf21gS9WNmU8BHGzVbWHTRmNKM2VdURDx0EldMh5czdjybiqf7SDErMFnaD9u7QmdprSYrmi52Bd/MKdaeaJslU0YLKFgSmeMkjUQe5WfjLE3I5Spv0OZhjRu3PsBPgF5oOLRvFA4Ve+ZuWaBU8QRccWZPcT0KFFpTywNwIVOHzBhWW2CbzWHYMZ3WME2QJUHUvadYyPRGoQP4B+f5ZPZlkOT7XdThr96Lski+X3cXLTz0CC8pNsxqS6/20vjKiwgqb2kpcI3wMxmtvEmNAs9Lc1TdZyExQheZ6xAFzLv7d1xexGswg== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm31.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2015 21:50:03 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.182] by nm31.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2015 21:47:03 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.206] by tm18.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2015 21:47:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2015 21:47:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 53605.54692.bm@omp1014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: N8OOE_4VM1kzLuhNeogLIVngJP6xoZfZYVHzvJb7Te9mP2vUprF6lYIVZ6KPo9n h.WR2p263vUya6uBSddqLYEE.FHr6UWi2OjfVgYOZdBoCXHuRgA1LKN.baAlYmZdZwcipSskC9X_ xriP1mZo1MUG2udLoOf4v0hai2pU1V.X75vDFQBvYKixEs_kiWTQj4b6jJIOqGG4Br2Jv3v9ox2G 8z_w3OmWdYSekF.AwifKrM43UMmY_eMnHkBxo4H1D5DU4QYmkysSw_3UGu4UPcz4ZY8jaPCSxxD1 EgIl5JUN2.Tt18iA9_bFO11KfAtd12KK9QwjO5ZfNGJGHFXEVG8pd1DEUCVDwwulsNvefnf5_25_ qVvY1MyyHK2GGt95UsMEFi30W3rbGAlPeuR0EpJRdH8KiZ8fzZRivc3OxkVfw9TAhb5I3WgNrSe7 pZoaLLfVFy84q0iS1mZyAP93pO2Gm_CwGDj6RXs1fnscNLr1M71FUpxeksnJhD19.sDuHd_NclID zOP7x6QAERroom1OpmQFX2w0- Received: by 216.39.60.203; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 21:47:02 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 21:47:02 +0000 (UTC) From: carlos pagani To: Jose Saldana , "gaia@irtf.org" Message-ID: <475889945.4130791.1447451222104.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <023f01d11e2b$293d8660$7bb89320$@unizar.es> References: <023f01d11e2b$293d8660$7bb89320$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4130790_1256488017.1447451222098" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] New version of draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos pagani List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 21:50:07 -0000 ------=_Part_4130790_1256488017.1447451222098 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Em Sexta-feira, 13 de Novembro de 2015 13:51, Jose Saldana escreveu: =20 Hi all, We have just uploaded a new version of the "Alternative Networks" draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploy= m ents/ (former "manyfolks draft"). These are the main improvements with respect to the previous version: - We have added a mini sub-section 1.2 stating that "alternative networks" are those networks different from "traditional networks". - We have exchanged the order of previous sections 2 and 3. We think the document reads better now. - We have put the "Criteria for the classification" as a new section (3). - We have removed all the "deployment experiences" in order to include them in a new draft (see another thread in the list). We will ask for volunteers for writing this draft in the list. - We have added some references about GSM, and fixed a typo with a referenc= e in wired networks. Feel free to send your comments in the list. Best regards, Jose Saldana & the rest of the authors > -----Mensaje original----- > De: gaia [mailto:gaia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de internet-drafts@ietf.org > Enviado el: viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015 16:32 > Para: i-d-announce@ietf.org > CC: gaia@irtf.org > Asunto: [gaia] I-D Action: draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >=C2=A0 This draft is a work item of the Global Access to the Internet for = All Working Group > of the IETF. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Alte= rnative Network Deployments. Taxonomy, characterization, > technologies and architectures >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Jose Sald= ana >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andres Arcia-Moret >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bart Braem >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ermanno Pietrosemoli >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Arjuna Sathiaseelan >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Marco Zennaro > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.txt > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 31 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2015-1= 1-13 >=20 > Abstract: >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document presents a taxonomy of "Alternative Network >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 deployments", and a set of definitions and shared properties= .=C2=A0 It >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 also surveys the technologies employed in these network depl= oyments, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and their differing architectural characteristics. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The term "Alternative Network Deployments" includes a set of= network >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 access models that have emerged in the last decade with the = aim of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bringing Internet connectivity to people, using topological, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 architectural and business models different from the so-call= ed >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "traditional" ones, where a company deploys or leases the ne= twork >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 infrastructure for connecting the users, who pay a subscript= ion fee >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to be connected and make use of it. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Several initiatives throughout the world have built large sc= ale >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alternative Networks, using predominantly wireless technolog= ies >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (including long distance) due to the reduced cost of using t= he >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 unlicensed spectrum.=C2=A0 Wired technologies such as fiber = are also used >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in some of these alternate networks. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The emergence of these networks can be motivated by differen= t causes >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 such as the reluctance, or the impossibility, of network ope= rators to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provide wired and cellular infrastructures to rural/remote a= reas.=C2=A0 In >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 these cases, the networks have self sustainable business mod= els that >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provide more localized communication services as well as Int= ernet >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 backhaul support through peering agreements with traditional= network >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 operators.=C2=A0 Some other times, networks are built as a c= omplement and >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 an alternative to commercial Internet access provided by >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "traditional" network operators. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The present classification considers different existing netw= ork >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 models such as Community Networks, which are self-organized = and >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 decentralized networks wholly owned by the community; networ= ks owned >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by individuals who act as Wireless Internet Service Provider= s >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (WISPs); networks owned by individuals but leased out to net= work >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 operators who use them as a low-cost medium to reach the und= erserved >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 population, and finally there are networks that provide conn= ectivity >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 by sharing wireless resources of the users. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Different criteria are used in order to build a classificati= on as >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the ownership of the equipment, the way the network is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 organized, the participatory model, the extensibility, if th= ey are >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 driven by a community, a company or a local stakeholder (pub= lic or >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 private), etc. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 According to the developed taxonomy, a characterization of e= ach kind >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of network is presented in terms of specific network charact= eristics >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 related to architecture, organization, etc. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploy= m ents/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments= - 02 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-dep= loy ments-02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until > the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia ------=_Part_4130790_1256488017.1447451222098 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Em Sexta-feira, 13 de Novembro de 2= 015 13:51, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> escreveu:


Hi all,

We have just u= ploaded a new version of the "Alternative Networks" draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alterna= tive-network-deploym
ents/ (former "manyfolks draft").

These = are the main improvements with respect to the previous version:

- We= have added a mini sub-section 1.2 stating that "alternative networks"
a= re those networks different from "traditional networks".

- We have e= xchanged the order of previous sections 2 and 3. We think the
document r= eads better now.

- We have put the "Criteria for the classification"= as a new section (3).

- We have removed all the "deployment experie= nces" in order to include them
in a new draft (see another thread in the= list). We will ask for volunteers
for writing this draft in the list.
- We have added some references about GSM, and fixed a typo with a re= ference
in wired networks.

Feel free to send your comments in the= list.

Best regards,

Jose Saldana & the rest of the autho= rs

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: gaia [mailto:g= aia-bounces@irtf.org] En nombre de
internet-drafts@ietf= .org
> Enviado el: viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015 16:32
>= Para: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> CC: gaia@irtf.org
> Asunto= : [gaia] I-D Action:
draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-02.= txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on= -line Internet-Drafts
directories.
>  This draft is a work it= em of the Global Access to the Internet for All
Working Group
> of= the IETF.
>
>        Title    =       : Alternative Network Deployments. Taxonomy,
chara= cterization,
> technologies and architectures
>    &n= bsp;   Authors        : Jose Saldana
>&nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;   Andres Arcia-Moret
>          &= nbsp;               Bart Braem
>&= nbsp;                    =     Ermanno Pietrosemoli
>        &nb= sp;                 Arjuna Sathias= eelan
>                 =         Marco Zennaro
>     File= name        :
draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-de= ployments-02.txt
>     Pages       = ;   : 31
>     Date        &= nbsp;   : 2015-11-13
>
> Abstract:
>    T= his document presents a taxonomy of "Alternative Network
>  &nbs= p; deployments", and a set of definitions and shared properties.  It>    also surveys the technologies employed in these network= deployments,
>    and their differing architectural charac= teristics.
>
>    The term "Alternative Network Depl= oyments" includes a set of network
>    access models that = have emerged in the last decade with the aim of
>    bringi= ng Internet connectivity to people, using topological,
>   = architectural and business models different from the so-called
>&nbs= p;   "traditional" ones, where a company deploys or leases the network=
>    infrastructure for connecting the users, who pay a su= bscription fee
>    to be connected and make use of it.
= >
>    Several initiatives throughout the world have bu= ilt large scale
>    Alternative Networks, using predominan= tly wireless technologies
>    (including long distance) du= e to the reduced cost of using the
>    unlicensed spectrum= .  Wired technologies such as fiber are also used
>   = in some of these alternate networks.
>
>    The eme= rgence of these networks can be motivated by different causes
> =   such as the reluctance, or the impossibility, of network operators = to
>    provide wired and cellular infrastructures to rural= /remote areas.  In
>    these cases, the networks have= self sustainable business models that
>    provide more lo= calized communication services as well as Internet
>    bac= khaul support through peering agreements with traditional network
>&n= bsp;   operators.  Some other times, networks are built as a comp= lement and
>    an alternative to commercial Internet acces= s provided by
>    "traditional" network operators.
>=
>    The present classification considers different exist= ing network
>    models such as Community Networks, which a= re self-organized and
>    decentralized networks wholly ow= ned by the community; networks owned
>    by individuals wh= o act as Wireless Internet Service Providers
>    (WISPs); = networks owned by individuals but leased out to network
>   = ; operators who use them as a low-cost medium to reach the underserved
&= gt;    population, and finally there are networks that provide co= nnectivity
>    by sharing wireless resources of the users.=
>
>    Different criteria are used in order to buil= d a classification as
>    e.g., the ownership of the equip= ment, the way the network is
>    organized, the participat= ory model, the extensibility, if they are
>    driven by a = community, a company or a local stakeholder (public or
>   = private), etc.
>
>    According to the developed ta= xonomy, a characterization of each kind
>    of network is = presented in terms of specific network characteristics
>   = related to architecture, organization, etc.
>
>
> The = IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-gaia-alternativ= e-network-deploym
ents/
>
> There's also a htmlized ver= sion available at:
>
https://tools= .ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deployments-
02>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddra= ft-irtf-gaia-alternative-network-deploy
ments-02
>
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time ofsubmission until
> the htmlized version and diff are available at to= ols.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonym= ous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> ______= _________________________________________
> gaia mailing list
>= gaia@irt= f.org
> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

_____= __________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org=
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


=
------=_Part_4130790_1256488017.1447451222098-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 10:58:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7229A1A877B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.423 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id etr0bCEiut_B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x232.google.com (mail-yk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50DEB1A8779 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by ykfs79 with SMTP id s79so256952117ykf.1 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Gj4HHl3do/4HXscCn4vEJ77XK/uguYaprUbhnBsNmKw=; b=pnYiSX4XorMASll+gDT/1LTNOY+t3FaV1CokgdE9pXE/pbI9MpJ7hjn+Nrg8sEpX4G dJ3K9ujeoJh/N9EDeSX6j5Io+ytVDlEP02jSZRLMlAvR8xh+SfMzNa7e3pvSsnNwJSF/ mTPCib6hNJQlFK7u0WpVmASUp4JlcJxb7BQ6co07FDia2+AgxvAihlVvxMjJ1e79dm/K kMU1LVGwtHnT4sQF8Zd2pbd0FohR34xZU0Bg4rdqS506lVjfO5p1moMDrTp30jVK5+Bo inM8wloevlS+d0nKelLsrSdqRkO10+iriMTtPE8SbOB8z9qSCKxc4b/BGEUsQw86DY2s QCjg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.135.194 with SMTP id x185mr37388129ywf.25.1447700295595; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:15 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.103.78.29 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:58:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:58:15 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: YBQht9e5axlS8X326wdOWK-bn0s Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114f1b3adc409c0524acfdd8 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Microsoft launches fund to improve access to affordable Internet in underserved markets X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 18:58:17 -0000 --001a114f1b3adc409c0524acfdd8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Microsoft continues to impress with their bottom-up approach to connectivity generation. http://news.microsoft.com/2015/11/15/microsoft-launches-fund-to-improve-access-to-affordable-internet-in-underserved-markets/ Cheers... Steve -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org --001a114f1b3adc409c0524acfdd8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Microsoft continues to impress with their bottom-up a= pproach to connectivity generation.


Cheers... Steve

--
--001a114f1b3adc409c0524acfdd8-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 14:26:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E82B1A886C for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:26:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddDNqRrRuxfP for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from roura.ac.upc.es (roura.ac.upc.es [147.83.33.10]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F32E11A8753 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 14:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.0.6] (gw-3-vpn-i.ac.upc.es [147.83.35.77]) by roura.ac.upc.es (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAGKfXgm020380 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:41:34 +0100 From: Leandro Navarro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FDC98C6F-D5AA-43EF-A5A1-ACB09DE1D984" Message-Id: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:25:58 +0100 To: gaia@irtf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3111\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3111) Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 22:26:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FDC98C6F-D5AA-43EF-A5A1-ACB09DE1D984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear all, This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net = community = network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission = for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and = investment=E2=80=9D = https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-e= uropean-broadband-award = The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 = A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: = http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf = If you come to the next GAIA workshop = (London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll = be able to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on = socio-economic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and = services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be there. I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop,=20 -- Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu --Apple-Mail=_FDC98C6F-D5AA-43EF-A5A1-ACB09DE1D984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear all,

This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where = the guifi.net community network got the European = Broadband Award from the European Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative = model of financing, business and investment=E2=80=9D https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-f= irst-ever-european-broadband-award
The = video about guifi.nethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance = model: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to = the next GAIA = workshop (London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV = conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a world-cafe style = discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models of = infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be = there.

I hope = to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, 
--
Leandro Navarro
http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro =  http://dsg.ac.upc.edu

= --Apple-Mail=_FDC98C6F-D5AA-43EF-A5A1-ACB09DE1D984-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 16:16:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08451A90E7 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRMluENnhvhx for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22e.google.com (mail-ob0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46ACA1A90E6 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by obdgf3 with SMTP id gf3so136119481obd.3 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=8JcLEzIy2ETJS+xQztrm2HVv7/+3hxEAFo+7jgdxgp0=; b=x50BEiz9N66DP74plR88d+89ib+Rija7g38PYfmOKcG8M3C+NwahnFhjeGG7lyv4xB C5szsMJdkIqG4r52Q7yH4u3lFPvhar7Ifr7FZYxo5QjIDJnqvLhJ97th97l+faLsdm10 8I0KQ/8Kt1piliMRxN7cklg5C5RS6Zz44/7STGLjXQMS3QypPg9TIc/eWLCoCZR+XbRm xq2l28kk3e8O6A7oMTACV7m5A6j7ZEejheiLZpihIbpwPflNL3BMYGd5vUxHX+vfXAA8 KfRwO6XjIVvvFH6hVmoCmMzlpNT3hNGgitK0GwFRAtpgy88yDrAL55YFdKpByAmHM3UA Sg3Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.227.166 with SMTP id sb6mr23178426oec.25.1447719396605; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:36 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.54.214 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 16:16:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:16:36 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tJH7PzKUNXoHo1LxsAQee0Rgoho Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136ac1a5e879a0524b17079 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 00:16:38 -0000 --001a1136ac1a5e879a0524b17079 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in Guifi.net. So well deserved! Cheers... Steve On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro wrote: > Dear all, > > This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net > community > network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission for > its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and investment=E2=80= =9D > https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-= european-broadband-award > The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 > A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > > If you come to the next GAIA workshop (Londo= n, > Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to > participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or > business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. > Guifi.net , among other initiatives, will be there. > > I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, > -- > Leandro Navarro > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --=20 +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org --001a1136ac1a5e879a0524b17079 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for sharing this Leandro.=C2=A0 Kudos to all i= nvolved in Guifi.net.=C2=A0 So well deserved!

Chee= rs... Steve

On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro <<= a href=3D"mailto:leandro@ac.upc.edu" target=3D"_blank">leandro@ac.upc.edu> wrote:
Dear all,

This evening we had the award = ceremony in Brussels where the=C2=A0guifi.net=C2=A0communi= ty network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission fo= r its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and investment=E2=80= =9D=C2=A0https://ec.eu= ropa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-european-broadb= and-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance= model:=C2=A0http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guif= i-en.pdf

If you come to the=C2=A0next GAIA workshop=C2=A0(Lo= ndon, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able= to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or busin= ess/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiati= ves, will be there.

I hope to see some of you in o= ur next GAIA workshop,=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia




--
--001a1136ac1a5e879a0524b17079-- From nobody Mon Nov 16 23:00:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266561B2B3B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LqCwmfE_Pa-j for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x22e.google.com (mail-ig0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3522A1B2B39 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by igcto18 with SMTP id to18so7021345igc.0 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sarantaporo-gr.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=XmkvwtOjLVeyk5mU5EtTHm4UbydjEriE9jOFRXUWsd8=; b=bFTeho9hUhs62vk2uOIuUPqXyGqWnJDngpiy1Li3UeDbww95cuS1znHP9kw1TQJdgz jOZ3PV0Pkh5PSfvtzoovyoSPU/y/j3tfR2tCctua735XfF4OUOH8Sh4FkLcJbBfhfoh0 f4U1jyLvf3XShmJ6jk3SlpuPZ3pNlgUsVNSD9ngJR+jnhgMIqW6A9XGjeDIh18nxWu6D T+bloe1P9GcL8O8FJKy5D2gHRuV2tWzAM4z+ZDTvC8FpI+8gNvPe1OIw8y0QgJ2GPdyG jUHh1HYhhaqy9+qVt7HhnVuxixBt5oa+8Hv6mplssN096eNEg2Ic9qZVRHUR5aQvzTyq wIjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=XmkvwtOjLVeyk5mU5EtTHm4UbydjEriE9jOFRXUWsd8=; b=RZUwfHEXsFjJzxCqxFkLYP/R4zLbvX/GaQtzK3EWuU/qnciD+oEQCXqz8U9+v4IBPq yyPh6qM2o9HalBkr4GzOxWQ4ji6B5CqACghARC06QhnPirBrbrE5zZoJ5KqduBr5a5pg Nui5UkYi//oaC/nj83QK0CbC672SvGYgSeFu+/+nNoK4KRvP+9n+SIUkTxOYdtJn9l4C geDoMqa67esKP6QpFi1GfAL6N29Wk26OhdX/gpjbCHBVBYiNh8lPcSfZCwqGCxLeEinO yBF+xMZ7Ok5yGXnpdzNFVvyFn0AggIP4YoBnpXVJpgVKyJwfgoLXKl6SCKGElRqiAyF8 lRFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkuiMTIHbC72cIrgd/1bNWJKvmhkoRit3/6EZYwnjGpCXjBWtnVgRWSFJOQPNFk0t0tfk8U MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.225.38 with SMTP id rh6mr394805igc.13.1447743625573; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.107.20.131 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:00:25 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [5.172.204.130] In-Reply-To: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:00:25 +0200 Message-ID: From: George Klissiaris To: Leandro Navarro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3a8568753340524b714ff Archived-At: Cc: gaia@irtf.org Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 07:00:29 -0000 --001a11c3a8568753340524b714ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's great news Leandro! Well done Guifi.net! George Sarantaporo.gr *George Klissiaris* Member & Administrator *Sarantaporo.gr Non Profit Organization* 12A Lamias Str., 15344, Gerakas, Attica, Greece Tel: +30 211 8002730, Mob: +30 6932 809662 Email: gklis@sarantaporo.gr, Web: www.sarantaporo.gr 2015-11-17 0:25 GMT+02:00 Leandro Navarro : > Dear all, > > This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net > community > network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission for > its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and investment=E2=80= =9D > https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-= european-broadband-award > The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 > A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > > If you come to the next GAIA workshop (Londo= n, > Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to > participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or > business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. > Guifi.net , among other initiatives, will be there. > > I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, > -- > Leandro Navarro > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --001a11c3a8568753340524b714ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's great news Leandro!
Well done Guifi.net!
George=C2=A0
Sarantaporo.gr

George Klissiaris
Member & Administrator

Sarantaporo.g= r Non Profit Organization
12A Lamias Str., 15344, Gerakas, At= tica, Greece
Tel: +30 211 8002730, Mob: +30 6932 809662
Email: gklis@sarantaporo.gr, Web: www.sarantaporo.gr

2015-11-17 0:25 GMT+02:00 Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu>:
Dear all,

This evening we= had the award ceremony in Brussels where the=C2=A0guifi.net=C2=A0community network got the European Broadband Award from the Europea= n Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and i= nvestment=E2=80=9D=C2=A0https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-= european-broadband-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic a= nd governance model:=C2=A0http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pub= s/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to the=C2=A0= next GAIA workshop= =C2=A0(London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80= =99ll be able to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-econ= omic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for = GAIA. Guifi.net, among o= ther initiatives, will be there.

I hope to see som= e of you in our next GAIA workshop,=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


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charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Congratulations! El 16/11/15 a las 23:25, Leandro Navarro escribi: > Dear all, > > This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net > community > network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission > for its innovative model of financing, business and investment > https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-european-broadband-award > > The video about guifi.net : > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3HYeD4Lm4 > A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > > If you come to the next GAIA workshop > (London, Nov 30, colocated with the > ACM-DEV conference) youll be able to participate in a world-cafe > style discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models > of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net > , among other initiatives, will be there. > > I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, > -- > Leandro Navarro > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia -- --------------------------------------------------- Fco. Javier Sim Reigadas Subdirector de Ord. Docente ETS de Ingeniera de Telecomunicacin D-204, Departamental III Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid) Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500 Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo --------------020707060000020103050906 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Congratulations!

El 16/11/15 a las 23:25, Leandro Navarro escribi:
Dear all,

This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where theguifi.netcommunity network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission for its innovative model of financing, business and investmenthttps://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-european-broadband-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model:http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to thenext GAIA workshop(London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) youll be able to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be there.

I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop,



_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

-- 

---------------------------------------------------
Fco. Javier Sim Reigadas <javier.simo@urjc.es>
Subdirector de Ord. Docente
ETS de Ingeniera de Telecomunicacin
D-204, Departamental III
Camino Del Molino, s/n - 28943 Fuenlabrada (Madrid)
Tel: 914888428, Fax: 914887500
Web personal: http://www.tsc.urjc.es/~javier.simo
--------------020707060000020103050906-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 01:45:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47AE21B2DCD for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 01:45:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GGb1KAgL3prT for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 01:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.awmn (mail.awmn.net [5.172.204.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E291B2DCC for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 01:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.awmn (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B9610184C; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:44:09 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at awmn.net Received: from mail.awmn ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.awmn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VgnarCQdKD4B; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:44:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from [192.168.70.29] (unknown [195.46.7.93]) by mail.awmn (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC8B2101715; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:44:08 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07A66A57-4B0D-49E2-AD4E-4212A072036C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Joseph Bonicioli In-Reply-To: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:44:26 +0200 Message-Id: <28E6D16C-9F6B-4260-8C24-64C1C9DF9FA3@awmn.net> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> To: Leandro Navarro X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: Cc: gaia@irtf.org Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:45:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07A66A57-4B0D-49E2-AD4E-4212A072036C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 So well done to you all !!!! So happy for you guys. Feels like we won = this! You deserved this since you have worked very very hard to get = where you are. Well done again! So exciting news!=20 > On 17 =CE=9D=CE=BF=CE=B5 2015, at 12:25 =CF=80.=CE=BC., Leandro = Navarro wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net = community = network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission = for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and = investment=E2=80=9D = https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-e= uropean-broadband-award = > The video about guifi.net : = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 = > A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: = http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf = >=20 > If you come to the next GAIA workshop = (London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll = be able to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on = socio-economic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and = services for GAIA. Guifi.net , among other = initiatives, will be there. >=20 > I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop,=20 > -- > Leandro Navarro > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro = http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --Apple-Mail=_07A66A57-4B0D-49E2-AD4E-4212A072036C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 So well done to you all !!!! So happy for you guys. Feels = like we won this! You deserved this since you have worked very very hard = to get where you are.
Well done again! So exciting = news! 

On 17 =CE=9D=CE=BF=CE=B5 2015, = at 12:25 =CF=80.=CE=BC., Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu> = wrote:

Dear all,

This evening we had the = award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net community network got the European = Broadband Award from the European Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative = model of financing, business and investment=E2=80=9D https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-f= irst-ever-european-broadband-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance = model: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to = the next GAIA = workshop (London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV = conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a world-cafe style = discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models of = infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be = there.

I hope = to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, 

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

= --Apple-Mail=_07A66A57-4B0D-49E2-AD4E-4212A072036C-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 04:45:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236C01A8A9D for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 04:45:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WhaqiP37D5Z2 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 04:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0090.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22CB91A8A8F for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 04:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY1PR0601MB1436.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.111.23) by BY1PR0601MB1369.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.111.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.325.17; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:45:43 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0601MB1434.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.111.21) by BY1PR0601MB1436.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.111.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.325.17; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:45:42 +0000 Received: from BY1PR0601MB1434.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.111.21]) by BY1PR0601MB1434.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.111.21]) with mapi id 15.01.0325.019; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:45:42 +0000 From: Jane Coffin To: Joseph Bonicioli , Leandro Navarro Thread-Topic: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network Thread-Index: AQHRIL3NmWmpczKZLUCeJex5P+NzvZ6f95wA///erwA= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:45:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <28E6D16C-9F6B-4260-8C24-64C1C9DF9FA3@awmn.net> In-Reply-To: <28E6D16C-9F6B-4260-8C24-64C1C9DF9FA3@awmn.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=coffin@isoc.org; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR0601MB1436; H:BY1PR0601MB1434.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: isoc.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D2708B8346148coffinisocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2015 12:45:42.3909 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 89f84dfb-7285-4810-bc4d-8b9b5794554f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0601MB1436 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; BY1PR0601MB1369; 2:8x61Q81YoOhJ4/hSx76XFNK/cm6wW+kI+q1N1Btfet1eSqR7hOIwfBeD+XSK1y4vj6axU6dV/HZ6cZrVeDG2Ez2zhbgmVDgY61BdBwdM+ENWrtRPUC9/ndbUcWM7kkFdIsETdPfEGWnrR2gZTCpHqIccYbmY7uS3t9uQs62zakg=; 23:QrW9xeyOLuMxork0191PkenXtW+l8CfQx74eeGYZd4Jwrwg4yWfqwWwRW2kHHrxMO5DF/HTdVmHl5B/fyf20KACnjqH0853a0dn25cYOfNxvcNAZCefMk6hgVP4pcdGxxQ/WZdJ2eMGAQz3V7QSsATTFRKsJXrKk6ptJ7CrqYIq161BbVN4EoUZruhof8kN/ X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: Cc: "gaia@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:45:48 -0000 --_000_D2708B8346148coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is wonderful news ;) From: gaia > on behalf = of Joseph Bonicioli > Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 6:44 AM To: Leandro Navarro > Cc: "gaia@irtf.org" > Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net= community network So well done to you all !!!! So happy for you guys. Feels like we won this!= You deserved this since you have worked very very hard to get where you ar= e. Well done again! So exciting news! On 17 =1B$B&-&O&E=1B(B 2015, at 12:25 =1B$B&P=1B(B.=1B$B&L=1B(B., Leandro N= avarro > wrote: Dear all, This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net community network go= t the European Broadband Award from the European Commission for its =1B$B!H= =1B(Binnovative model of financing, business and investment=1B$B!I=1B(B htt= ps://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-europ= ean-broadband-award The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch= ?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: http://peop= le.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, = Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=1B$B!G=1B(Bll be able to= participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or business= /sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net<= http://guifi.net/>, among other initiatives, will be there. I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --_000_D2708B8346148coffinisocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-ID: <64902179174CFA48B549A79F7E245941@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is wonderful news ;)

From: gaia <gaia-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of Joseph Boni= cioli <nettraptor@awmn.net>= ;
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at= 6:44 AM
To: Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu>
Cc: "gaia@irtf.org" <gaia@i= rtf.org>
Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Br= oadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network

So well done to you all !!!! So happy for you guys. Feels like we won this!= You deserved this since you have worked very very hard to get where you ar= e.
Well done again! So exciting news! 

On 17 =1B$B&-&O&E=1B(B 2015, at 12:25 =1B$B&P=1B(B.=1B$B&L= =1B(B., Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu> wrote:

Dear all,

This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where th= e guifi.net community network got the European Broadban= d Award from the European Commission for its =1B$B!H=1B(Binnovative model of financing, business and investment=1B$B!I=1B(B https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/new= s/five-projects-got-first-ever-european-broadband-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance mo= del: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, colocated with = the ACM-DEV conference) you=1B$B!G=1B(Bll be able to participate in a world= -cafe style discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be there.

I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, <= /div>

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org= /mailman/listinfo/gaia

--_000_D2708B8346148coffinisocorg_-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 05:55:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A76C1B2F9B for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:55:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1.047, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QFwdoxXit_qt for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com (nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com [17.158.88.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41B351B2F6B for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.16] (c-174-62-73-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [174.62.73.74]) by nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NXY008BQPCV7P00@nk11p12im-asmtp002.me.com> for gaia@irtf.org; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:55:44 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2015-11-17_08:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=0 kscore.compositescore=1 compositescore=0.9 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 rbsscore=0 spamscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.9 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510090000 definitions=main-1511170237 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_302B585F-64A0-4A99-BE8F-2BD55DE57395" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Jim Forster In-reply-to: Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 05:55:43 -0800 Message-id: <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> To: Steve Song X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:55:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_302B585F-64A0-4A99-BE8F-2BD55DE57395 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not really = understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict resolutions, sharing & = compensation, etc., but I wish I did! Jim > On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song wrote: >=20 > Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in Guifi.net. = So well deserved! >=20 > Cheers... Steve >=20 > On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro > wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net = community = network got the European Broadband Award from the European Commission = for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and = investment=E2=80=9D = https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever-e= uropean-broadband-award = > The video about guifi.net : = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 = > A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: = http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf = >=20 > If you come to the next GAIA workshop = (London, Nov 30, colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll = be able to participate in a world-cafe style discussion on = socio-economic or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and = services for GAIA. Guifi.net , among other = initiatives, will be there. >=20 > I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop,=20 > -- > Leandro Navarro > http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro = http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia = >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > +1 902 529 0046 > stevesong@nsrc.org > http://nsrc.org >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --Apple-Mail=_302B585F-64A0-4A99-BE8F-2BD55DE57395 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Kudos indeed!  A wonderful success story.  I = confess to not really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict = resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did!

Jim

On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> = wrote:

Thanks for sharing this = Leandro.  Kudos to all involved in Guifi.net.  So well deserved!
Cheers... Steve

On 16 = November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro <leandro@ac.upc.edu> wrote:
Dear all,

This evening we had the award ceremony = in Brussels where the guifi.net community network got = the European Broadband Award from the European Commission for its = =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and = investment=E2=80=9D https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-f= irst-ever-european-broadband-award
A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance = model: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf

If you come to = the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, colocated with = the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a = world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability = models of infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, = among other initiatives, will be there.

I hope to see some of you in our next = GAIA workshop, 


_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia




--
_______________________________________________
gaia = mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

= --Apple-Mail=_302B585F-64A0-4A99-BE8F-2BD55DE57395-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 06:32:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E8F1B32EE for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IUdtiAGctrQY for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22e.google.com (mail-ob0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2FFF1B32E5 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by obbww6 with SMTP id ww6so7714107obb.0 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SR8J+8TA3LZVa4NBlaTt8ANTmZFH+Dl0CjxDqHcaZtM=; b=RdQHb4UCkLxlPNucThDmvIOXcscpX1egt1P1xOayHRcg9M0Tg8xQg9gdmrU1ix8tHu cAhalhO7PWetbpLdl8/meocDwTasbs54MQyN/8Fi5wo2ZOPk2fBvG9Br2GQY/YFmdeKc JAgvnsj4p3LaZns9ro8iNB1/iExYJWfpPyh9ma+7v37WcOGQY439/C2Y+zRSoZWLU9s+ c2vM6rKy9BfH11Qp+RcEejaikIL3ViHDq1n7YYcbb2zMvHeGsfrAjNAvw7/cKI/AHTGJ ghNYNItgSLkqlh4uIVZEHK4bxTdKQVyvhMo3Qs2ADqRqKjyBdL9j7WHYtjXjNA/FyfVJ pMHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.22.198 with SMTP id g6mr25938833obf.50.1447770765227; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.97.136 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:32:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:32:45 +0200 Message-ID: From: David Johnson To: Jim Forster Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:32:47 -0000 Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were trying to do in Wireless Africa back in 2006 (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - after some inspiration from Frefunk at the time but never quite got there On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote: > Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not really > understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict resolutions, sharing & > compensation, etc., but I wish I did! > > Jim > > On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song wrote: > > Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in Guifi.net. So > well deserved! > > Cheers... Steve > > On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the guifi.net >> community network got the European Broadband Award from the European >> Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and = investment=E2=80=9D >> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-ever= -european-broadband-award >> The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 >> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >> >> If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, colocated with th= e >> ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a world-caf= e style >> discussion on socio-economic or business/sustainability models of >> infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiative= s, >> will be there. >> >> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, >> -- >> Leandro Navarro >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > > > -- > +1 902 529 0046 > stevesong@nsrc.org > http://nsrc.org > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > From nobody Tue Nov 17 06:45:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCC0B1A8A54 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:45:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.307 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d_gNrUxV0oC6 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.guifi.net (smtp1.guifi.net [109.69.9.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54C481A8A5A for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 06:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.guifi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8734F4B40116; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:45:41 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=guifi.net; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :mime-version:user-agent:date:date:message-id:organization :references:subject:subject:from:from:received:received :received; s=dkim; t=1447771537; x=1449585938; bh=vKVgR7ReRheycg ukSLrw14UliO5Mv65M0dLqDCZQhlQ=; b=0Hlpsr+NxXU3O5Hpbyp2xTHKVItT7q /lW6SY8jm63+Bty/HP39tWllQpUi0pfCXoeILLSO+z2IrGTQXYdvgBrA9tYKYlK6 2bpgmOUK5j7o90fZoahcjPup5eDUUZjSCRFxOn1oTnz3LL2wGwHQOOCClHegzQO1 lNJeG0ymnASZsSO1rl/77aGfUltctXbthOA2gr0GPl5GHg5z4UlP767DoEOHLy2x eUdLNQCzW6mmgR9otXxMLCRFqgLDywmIgDFBT6EDxfgwFbzxonjkAGpZadAKRW8n HCYmzNEu1zyid8qyYdWn8Lbl84oAmG0I9lE7IrIJuBAWXB1nBFcyF/Vw== X-Amavis-Modified: Mail body modified (using disclaimer) - smtp1.elserrat.org X-Virus-Scanned: Scrollout F1 on Debian amavisd-new at elserrat.org Received: from smtp1.guifi.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.elserrat.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id nMBHeOSREEI7; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:45:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.elserrat.org (mail.guifi.net [109.69.9.9]) by smtp1.guifi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1DE4B40143; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:45:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.17.206.79] (unknown [147.67.4.98]) by mail.elserrat.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7ED4C6AB85B; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:45:36 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=c3=b1as?= To: Jim Forster References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?Fundaci=c3=b3_Privada_per_a_la_Xarxa_Oberta=2c_Lliur?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_i_Neutral_guifi.net?= Message-ID: <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:45:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:45:48 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jim, It's a comprehensive ecosystem, thus, not easy, if possible at all, to explain in few words. Essentially, we are deploying and operating network infrastructure, including optical fibre, as a commons, where participants contribute, directly by deploying themselves or indirectly by funding, the infrastructure they need to extend the existing infrastructure to their locations. They keep the ownership of the infrastructure they contributed but, by joining the network the accept its license, that is to say, they join the Common Pool Resource with its rights (usage of all existing infrastructure) and duties (let other participants use the newcomers' infrastructure). Services (like Internet access) are delivered by ISPs using the existing infrastructure according to the free market rules (now that we have guaranteed the same rights of access to the infrastructure to everybody). Therefore, we are putting in practice an alternative model to the two traditional ones (private infrastructure and public infrastructure). To do so it is needed a full stack of tools (including those for which you - -Jim- are asking for) to ensure scalability, resilience and sustainability. We tried to outline the basics in the following paper: Roger Baig, Ramon Roca, Felix Freitag, Leandro Navarro, guifi.net, a crowdsourced network infrastructure held in common, Computer Networks, Volume 90, 29 October 2015, Pages 150-165, ISSN 1389-1286, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.comnet.2015.07.009. (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615002327) Keywords: Community networks; Crowdsourced networks; Self-organised governance systems; Self-provisioning; Common pool resource A draft version is available at: English: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf Castellano: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds_es_1.pdf We know it is not enough, but it is what we have so far. Part of our future work is to better document what we have already done and the news we introduce. Kind regards On 11/17/2015 02:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote: > Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not really > understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict resolutions, > sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! > > Jim > >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song > > wrote: >> >> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >> Guifi.net . So well deserved! >> >> Cheers... Steve >> >> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >> > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the >> guifi.net >> >> community network got the European Broadband Award from the >> European Commission for its “innovative model of financing, >> business and investment” >> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-e ver-european-broadband-award > >> > The video about guifi.net >> : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3HYeD4Lm4 >> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >> >> If you come to the next GAIA workshop >> (London, Nov 30, colocated with the >> ACM-DEV conference) you’ll be able to participate in a >> world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or >> business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services >> for GAIA. Guifi.net , among other initiatives, >> will be there. >> >> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro >> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> list gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> >> >> >> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org >> http://nsrc.org >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> list gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > - -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWSz2OAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDcYIP/jiGf9fkUz5bf0y1nWj37oEB WEu0yJuUW/51E62VYFyI0LaepDWipMDFqUVilSt7mps0qyBYF5n2zgW/+9c3zcKt S5HW8DklzKOfGtK40nIukcwptzyvSIboHRvOkUvXG4Ng64drl02+L2nVCnPSEmfF ovU48C9yO0IxTiA8C/hmc1FMMSPT7FE5uI/L6m6ywvhpeORH+J7EOu2PQV7dtp1B u8cSINcsl8Lspc6YwKgKdqqZHEHBAwl9vGO43tSbPep7cFhw6a/mVWwHlKqDAFMH umVOKP5oSrrc4JXPagJ0EyunpQnqCeGSjWt/3t6OjLZaUkc0lmG7il7iQ5+hZhar s3XQb3BRCW4k5hHTr9e6LAPC/eE1hAl5fDfrPPvGEYxlgaqhVMAVEyeINrxV9d9r g+9InGtHDXIFH/mXzt69nwoqbzEy5l8R3lSAgx+cvxGLBK8JHUKJN/H2c6nojJQE G5Oq5llko3WGiBtScOuDLUCSaoo2sqgA509rAK8C87nvaOE5BtLUtxue5V+FpVT0 4riFJfa9h+3CQVMMMKGAksjbcHBnw3/HUcEK39kjAzvcIj4FMw4LqWPvCKJhnuAE s82YrYW4+I6DZc24NZANbjMht1MEXbeZn1OyVfPKjZxE7/kHDNyGtdc2HzYcYYwG bM8vZRL1izRVN8izooKA =RG4k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Tue Nov 17 06:49:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD111A8940 for ; 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c=relaxed/simple; d=guifi.net; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :mime-version:user-agent:date:date:message-id:organization:from :from:references:subject:subject:received:received:received; s= dkim; t=1447771749; x=1449586150; bh=Hjdnl3XFJ4ml9qYH1oVsbCCTNtj O1DQAPg3OjUwV28A=; b=WWgzHKbSQvBblz929mQwPi1FlhoTwGHf4OOLZm2siAy zkcXk0e3wTvic83LUGmgEn9sp9rRDVXIFNb0z0/RjHTLS6ordCD0WCXIXCwniUnG KZPjbPXD347bf1Cq3mPLoIkibhbdfhJQC142KHaO3MjDidgTtEtFthIsIr9rV4F2 wLqDU+yihhN1S5Jhhq3NUEMMX2OAhDVGochObkmMu9H8Y858w6XWBEec+gNIS2Bv G8H+7IfNIHd1Md5yfYAypu4TfiwtTXJe9wCJXdbuPFCfb2fGBwdvofsbJzxDSA4m BD+mi2BVjulOVZKqr4TIEUe/PTxUCrVwGqt7v34h5Ew== X-Amavis-Modified: Mail body modified (using disclaimer) - smtp1.elserrat.org X-Virus-Scanned: Scrollout F1 on Debian amavisd-new at elserrat.org Received: from smtp1.guifi.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.elserrat.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8ewlsAwSJ04K; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:49:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.elserrat.org (mail.guifi.net [109.69.9.9]) by smtp1.guifi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286804B40116; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:49:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.17.206.79] (unknown [147.67.4.98]) by mail.elserrat.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B664E6AB85E; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:49:04 +0100 (CET) To: David Johnson , Jim Forster References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=c3=b1as?= Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?Fundaci=c3=b3_Privada_per_a_la_Xarxa_Oberta=2c_Lliur?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_i_Neutral_guifi.net?= Message-ID: <564B3E5F.2040604@guifi.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 15:49:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:49:16 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David, As we have witnessed in guifi.net, sometimes some initiatives/projects need some iterations. So please, do not give up. Give it another try, maybe this is the one! And one recommendation. Reuse as much as possible of what's out there to be able to focus your efforts in facing the particularities of your case. Best regards On 11/17/2015 03:32 PM, David Johnson wrote: > Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were trying to > do in Wireless Africa back in 2006 > (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - after some inspiration from > Frefunk at the time but never quite got there > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster > wrote: >> Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not >> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict >> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! >> >> Jim >> >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song >> wrote: >> >> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >> Guifi.net. So well deserved! >> >> Cheers... Steve >> >> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the >>> guifi.net community network got the European Broadband Award >>> from the European Commission for its “innovative model of >>> financing, business and investment” >>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first- ever-european-broadband-award >>> >>> The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3HYeD4Lm4 >>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance >>> model: >>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >>> >>> If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, >>> colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you’ll be able to >>> participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic >>> or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and >>> services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be >>> there. >>> >>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro >>> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro >>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> >> >> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > - -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWSz5eAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDxVEQANC5gl2isk5KVZ36rSanP+h8 8GHhVsXaSr9/Om94PnUzeZ74KvEs5cjFU4o1YK9HwlvduPXmK47GACjeVnt8plYP +yKkv8L51YEdC5AF3G7oJtr6WL+YEeaR2X3basWrFA5ZNCgviFicSWgen8LWTGqb 5f+/u/ipeVchWjRDGaDJG/SNOarn0ByHVTRWMuKiEXH2VAfwkoplIWJNduGPJk8d C6Gwoc8xMqyU2Yhp6dRXf67FieLy/12N97PZDBeU1XiDDOlNvng59d9yufSY1RxJ BqCCfVdiKKI8or3rOkocvt6gSRBhofryPL47qoh5uGSVMX6zwq1R+r36Xk4OHreT ZWmuPrjY9DnTkdktP5hQ2ThMwRaSgv+8/cZ8bc5WThEI81T+3/4qYTq9B17cCoX9 WkoojZJQCFO6LyjJFQbhtmpUvw442xByNTDjy2Lu3v1fh0zm//prbEW/oQafDyIy Osue7YnlHmgGugZbGrduQ5MEY9TPPUdWPJbhdHvCWrbyw/dFZJwwzbyaGnYSL9CI O7Ma48XkuwFC9OEzwpxa/vGxvF8/Eiw2En3qGW95mtBcxYuJKnVIRvLWej9NpWiV ul1FQSby6w0o8R17i08Frd2O1VsuBMv8OL1XElKuDzP6LmGQyvD/Ljbw8Wo4+KED yoZHG/sNQNnkxb4eHSRG =FNTh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Tue Nov 17 09:08:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAD01A1A7D for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:08:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1.047, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nI-PXNC_y9Jo for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com (nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com [17.158.88.160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8873E1A1B67 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.16] (c-174-62-73-74.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [174.62.73.74]) by nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NXY002VYYA0P740@nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com> for gaia@irtf.org; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:08:27 +0000 (GMT) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D551493-30AF-4096-838D-3164F761356E" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Jim Forster In-reply-to: <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:08:24 -0800 Message-id: <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> To: =?utf-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=C3=B1as?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2015-11-17_10:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=0 kscore.compositescore=1 compositescore=0.9 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 rbsscore=0 spamscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.9 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510090000 definitions=main-1511170282 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:08:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5D551493-30AF-4096-838D-3164F761356E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Roger, Yes, I=E2=80=99ve talked with Ramon and read the paper, at least sort = of understand the concepts, but perhaps some examples would be useful to = further understand this fascinating structure. For instance, how are = these sort of situations handled?=20 * Individual in a more remote area wants to join, some extra work is = required to get him connected (trench fiber, or install 1-2 radio relay = sites). Work is done, he=E2=80=99s happy. In theory others could use = this sort of backbone, but if they don=E2=80=99t, how is the cost = handled? * An area already connected, with 20-50 people using some shared back = bone links. Most are very happy with the service, but a few want much = faster service? What is the process to make this decision to upgrade = the backbone? How are costs shared? Do the 90% have to pay for for = part of the upgrade? Are the 10% out of luck if the 90% don=E2=80=99t = want to pay for upgraded infrastructure? * Similarly, in a area with service; speed is found to be declining. = After some investigation it=E2=80=99s determined that a few users are = consuming most of the bandwidth on a critical backbone link. =E2=80=94 Jim PS: Are there any other examples of this governance model for access = nets beside Guifi.net ? > On Nov 17, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Hi Jim, >=20 > It's a comprehensive ecosystem, thus, not easy, if possible at all, to > explain in few words. Essentially, we are deploying and operating > network infrastructure, including optical fibre, as a commons, where > participants contribute, directly by deploying themselves or = indirectly > by funding, the infrastructure they need to extend the existing > infrastructure to their locations. They keep the ownership of the > infrastructure they contributed but, by joining the network the accept > its license, that is to say, they join the Common Pool Resource with = its > rights (usage of all existing infrastructure) and duties (let other > participants use the newcomers' infrastructure). Services (like = Internet > access) are delivered by ISPs using the existing infrastructure > according to the free market rules (now that we have guaranteed the = same > rights of access to the infrastructure to everybody). >=20 > Therefore, we are putting in practice an alternative model to the two > traditional ones (private infrastructure and public infrastructure). = To > do so it is needed a full stack of tools (including those for which = you > -Jim- are asking for) to ensure scalability, resilience and > sustainability. We tried to outline the basics in the following paper: >=20 > Roger Baig, Ramon Roca, Felix Freitag, Leandro Navarro, guifi.net, a > crowdsourced network infrastructure held in common, Computer Networks, > Volume 90, 29 October 2015, Pages 150-165, ISSN 1389-1286, > http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.comnet.2015.07.009. > (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615002327) > Keywords: Community networks; Crowdsourced networks; Self-organised > governance systems; Self-provisioning; Common pool resource >=20 > A draft version is available at: >=20 > English: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > Castellano: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds_es_1.pdf >=20 > We know it is not enough, but it is what we have so far. Part of our > future work is to better document what we have already done and the > news we introduce. >=20 >=20 > Kind regards >=20 > On 11/17/2015 02:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote: > > Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not really > > understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict resolutions, > > sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! > > > > Jim > > > >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song >> > wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in > >> Guifi.net . So well deserved! > >> > >> Cheers... Steve > >> > >> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro > >> > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the > >> guifi.net > >> > >> community network got the European Broadband Award from the > >> European Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, > >> business and investment=E2=80=9D > >> = https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-e > ver-european-broadband-award > > > >> > > The video about guifi.net > >> : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 > >> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: > >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > >> > >> If you come to the next GAIA workshop > >> (London, Nov 30, colocated with the > >> ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a > >> world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or > >> business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services > >> for GAIA. Guifi.net , among other initiatives, > >> will be there. > >> > >> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro > >> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing > >> list gaia@irtf.org > >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org > >> http://nsrc.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing > >> list gaia@irtf.org > >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list > > gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as > Fundaci=C3=B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral = guifi.net >=20 --Apple-Mail=_5D551493-30AF-4096-838D-3164F761356E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Roger,

Yes, I=E2=80=99ve talked with Ramon and = read the paper,  at least sort of understand the concepts, but = perhaps some examples would be useful to further understand this = fascinating structure.  For instance, how are these sort of = situations handled? 

* Individual in a more remote area wants to join, some extra = work is required to get him connected (trench fiber, or install 1-2 = radio relay sites).  Work is done, he=E2=80=99s happy.  In = theory others could use this sort of backbone, but if they don=E2=80=99t, = how is the cost handled?

* An area already connected, with 20-50 people using some = shared back bone links.  Most are very happy with the service, but = a few want much faster service?  What is the process to make this = decision to upgrade the backbone?  How are costs shared?   Do = the 90% have to pay for for part of the upgrade?  Are the 10% out = of luck if the 90% don=E2=80=99t want to pay for upgraded = infrastructure?

* Similarly, in a area with service; speed is found to be = declining.  After some investigation it=E2=80=99s determined that a = few users are consuming most of the bandwidth on a critical backbone = link.

  = =E2=80=94 Jim

PS: Are there any other examples of this governance model for = access nets beside Guifi.net?

On Nov 17, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1a= s <roger.baig@guifi.net> wrote:

Signed PGP part
Hi Jim,

It's a comprehensive ecosystem, thus, not easy, if possible = at all, to
explain in few words. Essentially, we are = deploying and operating
network infrastructure, including = optical fibre, as a commons, where
participants = contribute, directly by deploying themselves or indirectly
by funding, the infrastructure they need to extend the = existing
infrastructure to their locations. They keep the = ownership of the
infrastructure they contributed but, by = joining the network the accept
its license, that is to = say, they join the Common Pool Resource with its
rights = (usage of all existing infrastructure) and duties (let other
participants use the newcomers' infrastructure). Services = (like Internet
access) are delivered by ISPs using the = existing infrastructure
according to the free market rules = (now that we have guaranteed the same
rights of access to = the infrastructure to everybody).

Therefore, = we are putting in practice an alternative model to the two
traditional ones (private infrastructure and public = infrastructure). To
do so it is needed a full stack of = tools (including those for which you
-Jim- are asking for) = to ensure scalability, resilience and
sustainability. We = tried to outline the basics in the following paper:

Roger Baig, Ramon Roca, Felix Freitag, Leandro Navarro, guifi.net, a
crowdsourced network infrastructure held in common, Computer = Networks,
Volume 90, 29 October 2015, Pages 150-165, ISSN = 1389-1286,
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.comnet.2015.07.009.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615002= 327)
Keywords: Community networks; Crowdsourced = networks; Self-organised
governance systems; = Self-provisioning; Common pool resource

A = draft version is available at:

English: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdfCastellano: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds_es_1.pdf

We know it is not enough, but it is what we = have so far. Part of our
future work is to better document = what we have already done and the
news we introduce.


Kind regards

On 11/17/2015 02:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote:
> = Kudos indeed!  A wonderful success story.  I confess = to not really
> understanding the dynamics of planning, = conflict resolutions,
> sharing & compensation, = etc., but I wish I did!
>
> Jim
>
>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, = Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org
>> <mailto:stevesong@nsrc.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this = Leandro.  Kudos to all involved in
>> Guifi.net <http://guifi.net>.  So well deserved!
>>
>> Cheers... Steve
>>
>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, = Leandro Navarro
>> <leandro@ac.upc.edu = <mailto:leandro@ac.upc.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> This evening we had the award = ceremony in Brussels where the
>> guifi.net
>> = <http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf&g= t;
>> community network got the European Broadband = Award from the
>> European Commission for its = =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing,
>> business = and investment=E2=80=9D
>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-f= irst-e
ver-european-broadband-award
>
>>
> The video = about guifi.net
>> <http://guifi.net/>: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4
>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and = governance model:
>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf>>
>> If you come to the next = GAIA workshop
>> <http://acmdev.org/gaia.php> (London, Nov 30, colocated = with the
>> ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be = able to participate in a
>> world-cafe style = discussion on socio-economic or
>> = business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services
>> for GAIA. Guifi.net <http://guifi.net/>, among other initiatives,
>> will be there.
>>
>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, = -- Leandro
>> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu
>> <http://dsg.ac.upc.edu/>
>>
>>
>> = _______________________________________________ gaia mailing
>> list gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org
>> <mailto:stevesong@nsrc.org> http://nsrc.org <http://nsrc.org/>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ gaia = mailing
>> list gaia@irtf.org <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>
>
>
> = _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list
> gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
>



--
Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as
Fundaci=C3= =B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net


= --Apple-Mail=_5D551493-30AF-4096-838D-3164F761356E-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 09:17:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD8D1A1BE5 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:17:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.904 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_92=0.6, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lM9WFPNvo67L for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mate.lo-res.org (mate.lo-res.org [IPv6:2a02:60:1:1::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 249BD1A1BC2 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mate.lo-res.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 32A664054C; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:17:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.71.8.2] (vpn.lo-res.org [193.238.157.40]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mate.lo-res.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 38AE9400B3; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:17:42 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FA2680D6-B48B-4FA0-8E34-B6B50049C2E7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" In-Reply-To: <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:17:37 +0100 Message-Id: <4979CE66-9695-40C5-B943-C21C181AF3CA@lo-res.org> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> To: Jim Forster X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , =?utf-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=C3=B1as?= Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:17:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FA2680D6-B48B-4FA0-8E34-B6B50049C2E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 17 Nov 2015, at 18:08, Jim Forster wrote: >=20 > Roger, >=20 > Yes, I=E2=80=99ve talked with Ramon and read the paper, at least sort = of understand the concepts, but perhaps some examples would be useful to = further understand this fascinating structure. For instance, how are = these sort of situations handled? >=20 > * Individual in a more remote area wants to join, some extra work is = required to get him connected (trench fiber, or install 1-2 radio relay = sites). Work is done, he=E2=80=99s happy. In theory others could use = this sort of backbone, but if they don=E2=80=99t, how is the cost = handled? >=20 > * An area already connected, with 20-50 people using some shared back = bone links. Most are very happy with the service, but a few want much = faster service? What is the process to make this decision to upgrade = the backbone? How are costs shared? Do the 90% have to pay for for = part of the upgrade? Are the 10% out of luck if the 90% don=E2=80=99t = want to pay for upgraded infrastructure? >=20 > * Similarly, in a area with service; speed is found to be declining. = After some investigation it=E2=80=99s determined that a few users are = consuming most of the bandwidth on a critical backbone link. >=20 I believe the answer is: it gets fixed if possible. :) That=E2=80=99s no different to what other ISPs do. > =E2=80=94 Jim >=20 > PS: Are there any other examples of this governance model for access = nets beside Guifi.net? >=20 Yes! In fact in the CONFINE project a couple of other community wireless = networks participated: * Funkfeuer.at in Austria * AWMN in Greece For a list of very similar networks to Guifi.net, see the excellent = wikipedia listing: = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wireless_community_networks_by_regio= n (there used to be a very extensive list but I could not find it now = anymore - seems like it got edited away in wikipedia) >> On Nov 17, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as = wrote: >>=20 >> Signed PGP part >> Hi Jim, >>=20 >> It's a comprehensive ecosystem, thus, not easy, if possible at all, = to >> explain in few words. Essentially, we are deploying and operating >> network infrastructure, including optical fibre, as a commons, where >> participants contribute, directly by deploying themselves or = indirectly >> by funding, the infrastructure they need to extend the existing >> infrastructure to their locations. They keep the ownership of the >> infrastructure they contributed but, by joining the network the = accept >> its license, that is to say, they join the Common Pool Resource with = its >> rights (usage of all existing infrastructure) and duties (let other >> participants use the newcomers' infrastructure). Services (like = Internet >> access) are delivered by ISPs using the existing infrastructure >> according to the free market rules (now that we have guaranteed the = same >> rights of access to the infrastructure to everybody). >>=20 >> Therefore, we are putting in practice an alternative model to the two >> traditional ones (private infrastructure and public infrastructure). = To >> do so it is needed a full stack of tools (including those for which = you >> -Jim- are asking for) to ensure scalability, resilience and >> sustainability. We tried to outline the basics in the following = paper: >>=20 >> Roger Baig, Ramon Roca, Felix Freitag, Leandro Navarro, guifi.net, a >> crowdsourced network infrastructure held in common, Computer = Networks, >> Volume 90, 29 October 2015, Pages 150-165, ISSN 1389-1286, >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.comnet.2015.07.009. >> (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615002327) >> Keywords: Community networks; Crowdsourced networks; Self-organised >> governance systems; Self-provisioning; Common pool resource >>=20 >> A draft version is available at: >>=20 >> English: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >> Castellano: http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds_es_1.pdf >>=20 >> We know it is not enough, but it is what we have so far. Part of our >> future work is to better document what we have already done and the >> news we introduce. >>=20 >>=20 >> Kind regards >>=20 >> On 11/17/2015 02:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote: >> > Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not really >> > understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict resolutions, >> > sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! >> > >> > Jim >> > >> >> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >> >> Guifi.net . So well deserved! >> >> >> >> Cheers... Steve >> >> >> >> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the >> >> guifi.net >> >> >> >> community network got the European Broadband Award from the >> >> European Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of = financing, >> >> business and investment=E2=80=9D >> >> = https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first-e >> ver-european-broadband-award >> > >> >> >> > The video about guifi.net >> >> : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 >> >> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance model: >> >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >> >> >> >> If you come to the next GAIA workshop >> >> (London, Nov 30, colocated with the >> >> ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to participate in a >> >> world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or >> >> business/sustainability models of infrastructures and services >> >> for GAIA. Guifi.net , among other initiatives, >> >> will be there. >> >> >> >> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro >> >> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> >> list gaia@irtf.org >> >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org >> >> http://nsrc.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >> >> list gaia@irtf.org >> >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list >> > gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as >> Fundaci=C3=B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral = guifi.net >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --Apple-Mail=_FA2680D6-B48B-4FA0-8E34-B6B50049C2E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWS2E1AAoJEBrti2ct1MmxKncP/0DULOd1S41HtRMzyatuvtLa 4l7DFR1+BRjNCCqk1feKs/SsELWWx+d54YMBjeb08tFRvR9G5sGQnWnXeJ/X3cQ6 1/bQcz3b86nekFo2Po1LSkqVcjPuv45Uh/g1j4df2I26Mhh4hR527NiHxQ4NyXll UbNVAGe5KuMgwpfyu4BONq0clFMBIKy6aYJVe2nC1+6iX3WlryGPg1e/ehDjkZBw wd9MaN8ZSQ1DM9cQw6r38ehM+/TUHSoCmPXdJd0u4iHSGTf2ZKrn/qLve8iCn5St LWGF9QWA3VwNXwpw00wY3UtXYv9wYzPQZlF6YVqbEJAJBdXe2l38JZOHn7xRRzuY rYxUAq29/Ms6/ptuRjzTakokeZXoW6xRSWA95FFc//oSu3nQNMAkNZQzOVoOdD+1 FdjyrL2lCrZwqjyvUso4TtO6xH/0wLR4bQWKcc4oktmT8SEETcTkOeHo3QbD5eYN tOl+SAUAY6FVY7evIXxKSPzg1frUHZTJqN7r63KRK0Ac+AvsuHJCiQXJJbDRN32O ZmrO1z8T8tUNrBZs4e/rm1k1iJyH4sC2aO6oESt+zBdGAcYzZwsn+NnDeQMfCyf5 Wc03NAV+xIdrW4HqXLvNK92OhJf2I41t1makSrntM32kkLm2N9fPX5eh82fRkYUd 9VBV9RIVnjH/iJBjeq+s =VcTi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_FA2680D6-B48B-4FA0-8E34-B6B50049C2E7-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 09:42:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E111A6F8B for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:42:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.904 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jNraYjRtQ5Po for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:42:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mate.lo-res.org (mate.lo-res.org [IPv6:2a02:60:1:1::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75E961A8855 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 09:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mate.lo-res.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id CD9A1406AC; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:41:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.71.8.2] (vpn.lo-res.org [193.238.157.40]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mate.lo-res.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 201AE400B3; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:41:47 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_826A554A-0AB5-4A51-97AE-A9AFB579550F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: "L. Aaron Kaplan" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 18:41:42 +0100 Message-Id: References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> <4979CE66-9695-40C5-B943-C21C181AF3CA@lo-res.org> To: guifipedro X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster , =?utf-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=C3=B1as?= Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 17:42:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_826A554A-0AB5-4A51-97AE-A9AFB579550F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 17 Nov 2015, at 18:30, guifipedro wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:17 PM, L. Aaron Kaplan = wrote: >>=20 >>> On 17 Nov 2015, at 18:08, Jim Forster wrote: >>>=20 >>> Roger, >>>=20 >>> Yes, I=E2=80=99ve talked with Ramon and read the paper, at least = sort of understand the concepts, but perhaps some examples would be = useful to further understand this fascinating structure. For instance, = how are these sort of situations handled? >>>=20 >>> * Individual in a more remote area wants to join, some extra work is = required to get him connected (trench fiber, or install 1-2 radio relay = sites). Work is done, he=E2=80=99s happy. In theory others could use = this sort of backbone, but if they don=E2=80=99t, how is the cost = handled? >>>=20 >>> * An area already connected, with 20-50 people using some shared = back bone links. Most are very happy with the service, but a few want = much faster service? What is the process to make this decision to = upgrade the backbone? How are costs shared? Do the 90% have to pay = for for part of the upgrade? Are the 10% out of luck if the 90% don=E2=80= =99t want to pay for upgraded infrastructure? >>>=20 >>> * Similarly, in a area with service; speed is found to be declining. = After some investigation it=E2=80=99s determined that a few users are = consuming most of the bandwidth on a critical backbone link. >>>=20 >>=20 >> I believe the answer is: it gets fixed if possible. >> :) >> That=E2=80=99s no different to what other ISPs do. >=20 > No >=20 > TL;DR > ISP is topdown, guifi.net is bottom up Yes, I know that :) But fixing issues is a technical issue and it just needs to get done. By *whoever* does it. --Apple-Mail=_826A554A-0AB5-4A51-97AE-A9AFB579550F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWS2baAAoJEBrti2ct1Mmxvd8P/0lTtbeo/57PD80UUpxs7Ng/ s+y/4PdcqFqjxzu+cUJIiZXdgz955O4CNKplPW8blEepUa9JGVfzJ+QBJ5w3XrSv fBxM038RQGU/T9U2WR98Wlp81mAjbN7wbuNYo3LN4E06Xim5W1OKP6uI/pse+jVt IfDoLmVLNaVIfDcnylmgIkw5fXEI0/CY5w7sIhrBihyQM27dRxxz7O1THhdpvHr/ I1mQ++iZQyjojOFiLz8516vEpUbDLEBfL3FIRXvifFiV/klO1stxDrn/cAgqOyea Nh6I/Yz3sk6W09Jbu7tBC3pLFIIzHMMQmP+1q2IULQzOct/Wi+6tkj9GvsyNu2i/ UOwgVqQbdT84GvVhuznUdtqfm7We840KjdZv4GMzdPcoKwxUzl0kLzTS+DEUaRkS eKF8ZfTF0PFYY3tLXwMahlblyYfURq/aYP4mflunL/OTGnoXT9jZekqwD/Pk6fRv VNF+5P17ZXRpSamEWPy+sEqB1N5Xd7GWbx7aCwueoC869sIYoYe7MnEYOFQNwX0o eML8pCfoDpX4jmW77owxowm5bE7mJ31bSpzvi2rXLa0aoeVOCmJsnITwl0JtuJRi FKAi0IVjVlXVJXOEhracNl0FRcWgV/bnuoEW8CwXwXIcDNspYk2Ti1TbsBS+7v+k MsZ7g85eoVGQQwAKEtbv =Na06 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_826A554A-0AB5-4A51-97AE-A9AFB579550F-- From nobody Tue Nov 17 11:31:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA851A6EE6 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25drtDpLmvEc for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22f.google.com (mail-ob0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E47FD1A7008 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by obdgf3 with SMTP id gf3so15337534obd.3 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UdLYA6NH+ZfSToHovPxkeQFnmnxSfvd14L4vxS/EcdU=; b=n5RfRAoXlow6xusCrhrzK/k+GahTvGh1or48sX8Ks04qKe1lj1cCO1gR+CTQkJLdXY DwECoFErNpYHyqtYLQAAnC7cdOigoIotZgY8aTyVH9GoprihczcGhQRgjnKbZjvcfSqM TbGVOLM3hXDBxGLLpDZbKXeLzKJxYJpMqosk0I3tl/m8dYjAFxhb6oM+oioKIlxRSGlt yo5ZfdzAecsESMnJTyLqYHUv2enR5UqeLaCVQ6C+cFzQ8y1r+zehmBKHsrPVu1fD/2Eq h7inWuWfiTDctmKM5QW5kfiAOd3ReTGhFyWLTT+ucy5APTaXhb9esvxmeJqcXROGh0cB IyPA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.233.103 with SMTP id tv7mr26705203oec.69.1447788663244; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.202.97.136 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:31:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <564B3E5F.2040604@guifi.net> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3E5F.2040604@guifi.net> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 21:31:02 +0200 Message-ID: From: David Johnson To: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=C3=B1as?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 19:31:05 -0000 Thanks Roger for the nudge Africa is a tough environment and we continue to fight on. There are some projects that are showing successes even in this tough environment like the VillageTelco project in Mankosi (thanks to the initiative of Steve song and co.) . Wireless User Groups (WUGs) community built WiFi networks are also fairly popular in many cities in South Africa. We also used some of our early mesh work to connect 200 rural schools and empower small rural village operators to expand connectivity from these anchor clients - but its hard to keep this sustainable when there is little economic activity in the area. We keep exploring and iterating through different models - hoping more open access fibre expanding across the country is also going to help things. TV white space (our current focus) is also going to open up opportunities to reach low density rural populations for less. Regards David On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > David, > > As we have witnessed in guifi.net, sometimes some initiatives/projects > need some iterations. So please, do not give up. Give it another try, > maybe this is the one! > > And one recommendation. Reuse as much as possible of what's out there > to be able to focus your efforts in facing the particularities of your > case. > > Best regards > > On 11/17/2015 03:32 PM, David Johnson wrote: >> Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were trying to >> do in Wireless Africa back in 2006 >> (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - after some inspiration from >> Frefunk at the time but never quite got there >> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster >> wrote: >>> Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not >>> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict >>> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >>> Guifi.net. So well deserved! >>> >>> Cheers... Steve >>> >>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the >>>> guifi.net community network got the European Broadband Award >>>> from the European Commission for its =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of >>>> financing, business and investment=E2=80=9D >>>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first- > ever-european-broadband-award >>>> >>>> > The video about guifi.net: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 >>>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance >>>> model: >>>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >>>> >>>> If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, >>>> colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to >>>> participate in a world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic >>>> or business/sustainability models of infrastructures and >>>> services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among other initiatives, will be >>>> there. >>>> >>>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- Leandro >>>> Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro >>>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>> list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> > > - -- > Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as > Fundaci=C3=B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWSz5eAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDxVEQANC5gl2isk5KVZ36rSanP+h8 > 8GHhVsXaSr9/Om94PnUzeZ74KvEs5cjFU4o1YK9HwlvduPXmK47GACjeVnt8plYP > +yKkv8L51YEdC5AF3G7oJtr6WL+YEeaR2X3basWrFA5ZNCgviFicSWgen8LWTGqb > 5f+/u/ipeVchWjRDGaDJG/SNOarn0ByHVTRWMuKiEXH2VAfwkoplIWJNduGPJk8d > C6Gwoc8xMqyU2Yhp6dRXf67FieLy/12N97PZDBeU1XiDDOlNvng59d9yufSY1RxJ > BqCCfVdiKKI8or3rOkocvt6gSRBhofryPL47qoh5uGSVMX6zwq1R+r36Xk4OHreT > ZWmuPrjY9DnTkdktP5hQ2ThMwRaSgv+8/cZ8bc5WThEI81T+3/4qYTq9B17cCoX9 > WkoojZJQCFO6LyjJFQbhtmpUvw442xByNTDjy2Lu3v1fh0zm//prbEW/oQafDyIy > Osue7YnlHmgGugZbGrduQ5MEY9TPPUdWPJbhdHvCWrbyw/dFZJwwzbyaGnYSL9CI > O7Ma48XkuwFC9OEzwpxa/vGxvF8/Eiw2En3qGW95mtBcxYuJKnVIRvLWej9NpWiV > ul1FQSby6w0o8R17i08Frd2O1VsuBMv8OL1XElKuDzP6LmGQyvD/Ljbw8Wo4+KED > yoZHG/sNQNnkxb4eHSRG > =3DFNTh > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Wed Nov 18 07:14:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41BEA1B326C for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.423 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KcSqJAoO2UNB for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22b.google.com (mail-ob0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA0511AC416 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by obdgf3 with SMTP id gf3so35747330obd.3 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=AqRLy2SCVGXGfPaNsPol66d8H0gc28v9PtD7hwl2ubk=; b=zk+6Jc7ttER6OVHKX6G9uZc028nn67ek3GFu4gxa3N9aZPzy5MAX/jomDn5bOBnhGY HlW3NCryiPY/ckH5AvejyaHJQqU3lNPx+1V6f36r3KDQlETN/eIwqH3upHDYjzMdFuJx 7VcPlNCWv77QTrcuLdyw1ijXC8KgzVforFMHaNQpJwQT6uLY4KFkW/FUD/YCxglJlgO9 Ug4j6N8gj/iebqZCNQrGP68jDC9wbZ8skyH2EXMgPT3L9kvLPfmgqnaUkDR05kHdIhUs A+Htjmc+z9shNosIQ24nOZLNrp3yN1MszBR51iXEJOLD/ozwsFdIMYjuDa3HV4QTid2H mD6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.227.166 with SMTP id sb6mr1227824oec.25.1447859647178; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.54.214 with HTTP; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 07:14:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:14:07 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2JyntR1a6puAaSGidvpvrd_AVC0 Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136ac1af474220524d21711 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Google offering off-line YouTube in Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya, and South Africa X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:14:09 -0000 --001a1136ac1af474220524d21711 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 An interesting innovation from Google in delay-tolerant networking. http://google-africa.blogspot.co.ke/2015/11/buffering-wheel-stand-aside-introducing.html Cheers... Steve -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org --001a1136ac1af474220524d21711 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An interesting innovation from Google in delay-tolera= nt networking.


Cheers... Steve

=
--
+1 902 529 0046
stevesong@nsrc.org

<= /div>
--001a1136ac1af474220524d21711-- From nobody Wed Nov 18 10:55:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850081A6F6B for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:55:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dtVYSurmAXW3 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.guifi.net (smtp1.guifi.net [109.69.9.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C71D21A6F5B for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 10:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.guifi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E384B40143; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:55:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=guifi.net; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:in-reply-to :mime-version:user-agent:date:date:message-id:organization:from :from:references:subject:subject:received:received:received; s= dkim; t=1447872900; x=1449687301; bh=ISPkytnvpoJ/ipTLimZ6RNtNHUU ychTByaKbUX6zVKY=; b=K4w0cDUEZr55kTDQngiPoWu+rwofbWO7VpEi86/z84M syj1jw41AhCNYimUnbhilq0ClZGeC1ZcuZOLx79bGcVGTOwrPmiDSstzV5G2eaxu jc61V8WTYt6pH2tzku+c/Y6eoSWTOuVm4/dTkW+GuhN5RYGcW4xf3XhznCvSuUqe EAyaAXKiZox6TGdyqhWMenF2iSUbGk4o+PfP0sv0asxOaq6oqAN4Ryi3UR3Aa6RJ jq5qh/1+vQvMO0Uqo5vjB2z9gZSP93LurGB2a8SUm+cHfsVs3uKyMvQYsxA3dXUw 7+Li+1NSB24ZMn8mgAcky0m3i+ZZp0YqmqBqIk2VKfw== X-Amavis-Modified: Mail body modified (using disclaimer) - smtp1.elserrat.org X-Virus-Scanned: Scrollout F1 on Debian amavisd-new at elserrat.org Received: from smtp1.guifi.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.elserrat.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id YJEKp3bXo62W; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:55:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.elserrat.org (mail.guifi.net [109.69.9.9]) by smtp1.guifi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28BE84B40116; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:55:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.199.190] (23.202-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [81.245.202.23]) by mail.elserrat.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D57436ABC70; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:54:57 +0100 (CET) To: Jim Forster References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3D8F.9070305@guifi.net> <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=c3=b1as?= X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?Fundaci=c3=b3_Privada_per_a_la_Xarxa_Oberta=2c_Lliur?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_i_Neutral_guifi.net?= Message-ID: <564CC980.1010908@guifi.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:54:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4B98A468-8A93-455B-B2F9-5B8283A3B4D3@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 18:55:13 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jim, In-line On 11/17/2015 06:08 PM, Jim Forster wrote: > Roger, > > Yes, I’ve talked with Ramon and read the paper, at least sort of > understand the concepts, but perhaps some examples would be useful > to further understand this fascinating structure. For instance, > how are these sort of situations handled? > > * Individual in a more remote area wants to join, some extra work > is required to get him connected (trench fiber, or install 1-2 > radio relay sites). Work is done, he’s happy. In theory others > could use this sort of backbone, but if they don’t, how is the cost > handled? In principle by the individual. At least this is how it has been (and probably will be) in WiFi. Nonetheless for fibre we are trying to balance costs, e.g. urban/semi-urban deployments pay a bit more to help a bit rural deployments. Rural still pay more than semi-urban, though. > > * An area already connected, with 20-50 people using some shared > back bone links. Most are very happy with the service, but a few > want much faster service? What is the process to make this > decision to upgrade the backbone? How are costs shared? Do the > 90% have to pay for for part of the upgrade? Are the 10% out of > luck if the 90% don’t want to pay for upgraded infrastructure? No. The upgrade is paid by those who want to upgrade. Nonetheless: 1) we try to convince the rest to join the upgrade. 2) the license foresees the option to apply QoS policies in the segments you have contributed (although I'm very reluctant to do/promote this) > > * Similarly, in a area with service; speed is found to be > declining. After some investigation it’s determined that a few > users are consuming most of the bandwidth on a critical backbone > link. Again: 1) try to talk to come with a solution. At first sight, in order of (my) preference: 1) convince the guy to pay and upgrade 2) the owner of the segment has the right to apply QoS > > — Jim > > PS: Are there any other examples of this governance model for > access nets beside Guifi.net ? I'm afraid that not as developed and well founded as guifi.net (at the risk to sound pretentious - which is not the intention at all) Regards > >> On Nov 17, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Roger Baig Viñas >> > wrote: >> >> Signed PGP part Hi Jim, >> >> It's a comprehensive ecosystem, thus, not easy, if possible at >> all, to explain in few words. Essentially, we are deploying and >> operating network infrastructure, including optical fibre, as a >> commons, where participants contribute, directly by deploying >> themselves or indirectly by funding, the infrastructure they need >> to extend the existing infrastructure to their locations. They >> keep the ownership of the infrastructure they contributed but, by >> joining the network the accept its license, that is to say, they >> join the Common Pool Resource with its rights (usage of all >> existing infrastructure) and duties (let other participants use >> the newcomers' infrastructure). Services (like Internet access) >> are delivered by ISPs using the existing infrastructure according >> to the free market rules (now that we have guaranteed the same >> rights of access to the infrastructure to everybody). >> >> Therefore, we are putting in practice an alternative model to the >> two traditional ones (private infrastructure and public >> infrastructure). To do so it is needed a full stack of tools >> (including those for which you -Jim- are asking for) to ensure >> scalability, resilience and sustainability. We tried to outline >> the basics in the following paper: >> >> Roger Baig, Ramon Roca, Felix Freitag, Leandro Navarro, >> guifi.net , a crowdsourced network >> infrastructure held in common, Computer Networks, Volume 90, 29 >> October 2015, Pages 150-165, ISSN 1389-1286, >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.comnet.2015.07.009. >> (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615002327) >> >> Keywords: Community networks; Crowdsourced networks; Self-organised >> governance systems; Self-provisioning; Common pool resource >> >> A draft version is available at: >> >> English: >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >> Castellano: >> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds_es_1.pdf >> >> We know it is not enough, but it is what we have so far. Part of >> our future work is to better document what we have already done >> and the news we introduce. >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> On 11/17/2015 02:55 PM, Jim Forster wrote: >>> Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not >>> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict >>> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I did! >>> >>> Jim >>> >>>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song >>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >>>> Guifi.net . So well >>>> deserved! >>>> >>>> Cheers... Steve >>>> >>>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >>>> >> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where the >>>> guifi.net >>>> >>>> community network got the European Broadband Award from the >>>> European Commission for its “innovative model of financing, >>>> business and investment” >>>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-first - -e >> >>>> ver-european-broadband-award >>> >>>> >>> The video about guifi.net >>>> : >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3HYeD4Lm4 A paper that >>>> describes its socio-economic and governance model: >>>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >>>> >>>> If you come to the next GAIA workshop >>>> (London, Nov 30, colocated with >>>> the ACM-DEV conference) you’ll be able to participate in a >>>> world-cafe style discussion on socio-economic or >>>> business/sustainability models of infrastructures and >>>> services for GAIA. Guifi.net >>>> , among other initiatives, will be there. >>>> >>>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- >>>> Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro >>>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>>> list gaia@irtf.org >>>> >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org >>>> >>>> http://nsrc.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>>> list gaia@irtf.org >>>> >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>> list gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >> >> >> >> -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, >> Lliure i Neutral guifi.net >> > - -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWTMlyAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDf5EP/1SE5Gef7dAnq7dsqbKnP0VP y3i6aZ6sh5Gqzve3wcoOassWe2QQlk+Iay+iFKHaIL1rD20tN9TCrIhr4Wztx5um 1Br/4eMgdhp+WHyN+Nspm+uxrgwbnhAlW++NkRYkQ8KGW3/piVgG4OT0zw1rZzbL VWGNNrshd17nG9jYxSziLLLdgrc1BgKSDrY8FehOUHG15e9vljxNHrWAqsJWdSZk GZ++tUgk3/ZFhKrLVFGOZBicyD/c5T4dY0ufGIPyZt8NP/7JXzK37+7o8jaHJziY NQS+iRPJOCVtGE1dc21yMBLMuth0hzhbjyiMC2MKCnWtUoZUBQyN4VWyTHG8+1tQ 1HdUfpy7lX+eMxkkfR3T4rR7Tee7qOUZ/BPwNPV4IkCOHu99QfRAFU2xu+7ZJWcd 8dKR1H05HMlePLagYLVovui8GGr5U0kJ2sqVCUIFslodF/xvPgQAHj8YAS6A6niX HT9To/hllifzaQwxJs28mXg5CQxUsEBdE2Rps9glOxNLEIsWoCnZmmCLEFg2Pxqc h77BMCT5NceULf9NYKK7V+QGquXaauAEpFbvQO8adL74buS1Iy+XVrr1BmzfDjnY e1rkS5NIGp1ilQKW6LyHUtoz3oyxnxVCsCBZrnfTLahX9GQWCSEKjNjWIl+ikKsA RbCzkKdHq/pPi+BFjMlB =ZsIC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Wed Nov 18 11:11:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26391A8F3D for ; 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Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:11:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.199.190] (23.202-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [81.245.202.23]) by mail.elserrat.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 790BA6ABD5B; Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:11:08 +0100 (CET) To: David Johnson References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3E5F.2040604@guifi.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=c3=b1as?= X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Organization: =?UTF-8?Q?Fundaci=c3=b3_Privada_per_a_la_Xarxa_Oberta=2c_Lliur?= =?UTF-8?Q?e_i_Neutral_guifi.net?= Message-ID: <564CCD4A.6070901@guifi.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 20:11:06 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:11:22 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi David, In-line On 11/17/2015 08:31 PM, David Johnson wrote: > Thanks Roger for the nudge > > Africa is a tough environment and we continue to fight on. There > are some projects that are showing successes even in this tough > environment like the VillageTelco project in Mankosi (thanks to the > initiative of Steve song and co.) . Wireless User Groups (WUGs) > community built WiFi networks are also fairly popular in many > cities in South Africa. We also used some of our early mesh work to > connect 200 rural schools and empower small rural village operators > to expand connectivity from these anchor clients - but its hard to > keep this sustainable when there is little economic activity in the > area. I can imagine (I had the opportunity to visit Namibia last year). > > We keep exploring and iterating through different models - hoping > more open access fibre expanding across the country is also going > to help things. TV white space (our current focus) is also going > to open up opportunities to reach low density rural populations > for less. I agree. What works in South-West Europe might not work in other regions due to socio-economic reasons among others. Nonetheless I think it is worth that the practitioners still fight to keep the principles alive (non-speculative access, openness, etc.), not only for good humanitarian reasons but because I'm totally convinced that they lead to most efficient usage of the resources (no duplication, everybody contributing to the same resource, etc.). microISPs and the rest of the local entrepreneurs must understand that collaboration turns into better profits for them than fierce competition (for example, the only option they have to face big telcos competition is through collaboration). Kind regards. > > Regards David > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Roger Baig Viñas > wrote: David, > > As we have witnessed in guifi.net, sometimes some > initiatives/projects need some iterations. So please, do not give > up. Give it another try, maybe this is the one! > > And one recommendation. Reuse as much as possible of what's out > there to be able to focus your efforts in facing the > particularities of your case. > > Best regards > > On 11/17/2015 03:32 PM, David Johnson wrote: >>>> Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were >>>> trying to do in Wireless Africa back in 2006 >>>> (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - after some >>>> inspiration from Frefunk at the time but never quite got >>>> there >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster >>>> wrote: >>>>> Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not >>>>> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict >>>>> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I >>>>> did! >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in >>>>> Guifi.net. So well deserved! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers... Steve >>>>> >>>>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where >>>>>> the guifi.net community network got the European >>>>>> Broadband Award from the European Commission for its >>>>>> “innovative model of financing, business and investment” >>>>>> >>>>>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-fir st- > >>>>>> >>>>>> ever-european-broadband-award >>>>>> >>>>>> > The video about guifi.net: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3HYeD4Lm4 >>>>>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance >>>>>> model: >>>>>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, >>>>>> colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you’ll be able to >>>>>> participate in a world-cafe style discussion on >>>>>> socio-economic or business/sustainability models of >>>>>> infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among >>>>>> other initiatives, will be there. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- >>>>>> Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro >>>>>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia >>>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia >>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia >>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing >>>> list gaia@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>> > > - -- Roger Baig Viñas Fundació Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWTM1KAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDwzwP/30QYmn4IcR+c2ilqA3GwRw5 DgjjjV52P2VWBJgS0pz32X9zqdXPauhuhHbW2b5QqBJvMucnZGX5j4vO+02x2xt8 UbKUoPMu1XZariBrpeyIboY+5nXtSLk1sfIqiVwblXdT1HhQCXhStNs/BUP09tW5 FOvUA/ckPNSwot+41P0qUei+52o4+cJEbwJdr9U7v78oRnNQTLlqnkClAxm7qTqk /MaXYMtFsB7oUleS9vDtGizmUco6mfCC6Y0iiNrQ/6vOKj6dm83d+vnkS+rmQuyd K34TN/uulj2foN+Aqa4bAYxafdd8iduzSu9Qc8ALOqBn6fjl7UoEdFIy6gMJCXu4 Tntwxl5s8I1RzFwvLjaOJmEaiJxraelfljfRs5cWSRgtt4LIA06i4SIFCnNumr4q wwq3ef+9S/4cCe3d/DF5RK51McovVVO+LbK7PaJXTyAnmV356dnryhx9EtM9iY3x NokU9khwOycppne1qjlwzWdGI+K7VN4IEYzZ19T12DFvYv1BI/q+PN1IL9FSDZZQ oQ+At+apLQOcy1e+g7ZGbsJebNMby6hU+viIK1jQg2TyNwxKYNV789TS4JVYP5xN eS7g9Ef9pQ2lQH2Rq3omTlj7VOKeccUt28bFQiUl2NtDUpzNKsDxcdLx61aB8EqC TYoEp+X8JT6YpbeHdg7t =RaFm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Sat Nov 21 07:46:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5A81ACD94 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.601 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_54=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q9HcFMu_mWDU for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x22e.google.com (mail-pa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C65881ACD90 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so150776818pab.0 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/4TnUNDgoI04bKfwcS0aJXsSvA1KlrjBjxWG7SG7mKo=; b=gbjUBU7HEXKf2JB4yjzLOUSMqKIpnc3giRrHQbQfH+ck+fHqMt6yl59s/OwG86eZvY P7MYafwoOt8m+JurVN1mvN2g2+OXLt9ILiZ7623XyA7zTjpP0QBJxYI3RWYcYDWUpA7a o/zu5CU+DzYD/gFvB5BqLP+dAjYxNp9hEBQnHW7f8EgcoeMtgWRb47lMxg1SOjBySkaj 5wQwR85dYlPxudVcR2m5KDcVAnCld0XRkKU8vRFtEt83DIfHiRjvFFsRgq0+JYl8Jlyr RzAMPWtZhTjUcNSFGAa9qCuz4MUg6GIrMs5elgC6Xsv/dBtszRUHt41wLTMPVcvdzNmi CJGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.216.7 with SMTP id om7mr26068931pac.90.1448120769265; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.144.106 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 07:46:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <564CCD4A.6070901@guifi.net> References: <872E6408-0956-4D08-938F-0ECCF0CAF12C@ac.upc.edu> <8E48D875-6FEB-4DD4-98B9-C32B17894C4C@mac.com> <564B3E5F.2040604@guifi.net> <564CCD4A.6070901@guifi.net> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:16:09 -0430 Message-ID: From: Maureen Hernandez To: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_Baig_Vi=C3=B1as?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1e08e0b472405250ee423 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , David Johnson , Steve Song , Jim Forster Subject: Re: [gaia] The European Broadband Award 2015 goes to the guifi.net community network X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:46:12 -0000 --001a11c1e08e0b472405250ee423 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, first congratulations to guifi.netm I'm still reading the paper and I think it's really well structured, to facilitate the understanding and promote the content it would be nice to have some sord of video visualization of that info, maybe could help to better understanding. On the other hand about the GAIA meeting this 30th November , it would be some remote participation, livestream, or a video after? kind regards, 2015-11-18 14:41 GMT-04:30 Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi David, > > In-line > > On 11/17/2015 08:31 PM, David Johnson wrote: > > Thanks Roger for the nudge > > > > Africa is a tough environment and we continue to fight on. There > > are some projects that are showing successes even in this tough > > environment like the VillageTelco project in Mankosi (thanks to the > > initiative of Steve song and co.) . Wireless User Groups (WUGs) > > community built WiFi networks are also fairly popular in many > > cities in South Africa. We also used some of our early mesh work to > > connect 200 rural schools and empower small rural village operators > > to expand connectivity from these anchor clients - but its hard to > > keep this sustainable when there is little economic activity in the > > area. > > I can imagine (I had the opportunity to visit Namibia last year). > > > > > We keep exploring and iterating through different models - hoping > > more open access fibre expanding across the country is also going > > to help things. TV white space (our current focus) is also going > > to open up opportunities to reach low density rural populations > > for less. > > I agree. What works in South-West Europe might not work in other > regions due to socio-economic reasons among others. Nonetheless I > think it is worth that the practitioners still fight to keep the > principles alive (non-speculative access, openness, etc.), not only > for good humanitarian reasons but because I'm totally convinced that > they lead to most efficient usage of the resources (no duplication, > everybody contributing to the same resource, etc.). microISPs and the > rest of the local entrepreneurs must understand that collaboration > turns into better profits for them than fierce competition (for > example, the only option they have to face big telcos competition is > through collaboration). > > Kind regards. > > > > > Regards David > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as > > wrote: David, > > > > As we have witnessed in guifi.net, sometimes some > > initiatives/projects need some iterations. So please, do not give > > up. Give it another try, maybe this is the one! > > > > And one recommendation. Reuse as much as possible of what's out > > there to be able to focus your efforts in facing the > > particularities of your case. > > > > Best regards > > > > On 11/17/2015 03:32 PM, David Johnson wrote: > >>>> Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were > >>>> trying to do in Wireless Africa back in 2006 > >>>> (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - after some > >>>> inspiration from Frefunk at the time but never quite got > >>>> there > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> Kudos indeed! A wonderful success story. I confess to not > >>>>> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflict > >>>>> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I wish I > >>>>> did! > >>>>> > >>>>> Jim > >>>>> > >>>>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for sharing this Leandro. Kudos to all involved in > >>>>> Guifi.net. So well deserved! > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers... Steve > >>>>> > >>>>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dear all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels where > >>>>>> the guifi.net community network got the European > >>>>>> Broadband Award from the European Commission for its > >>>>>> =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business and investment=E2= =80=9D > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-fir > st- > > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ever-european-broadband-award > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > The video about guifi.net: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgD3HYeD4Lm4 > >>>>>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and governance > >>>>>> model: > >>>>>> http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30, > >>>>>> colocated with the ACM-DEV conference) you=E2=80=99ll be able to > >>>>>> participate in a world-cafe style discussion on > >>>>>> socio-economic or business/sustainability models of > >>>>>> infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guifi.net, among > >>>>>> other initiatives, will be there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA workshop, -- > >>>>>> Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/leandro > >>>>>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia > >>>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org > >>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia > >>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org > >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia > >>>>> mailing list gaia@irtf.org > >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ gaia mailing > >>>> list gaia@irtf.org > >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > >>>> > > > > > > - -- > Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as > Fundaci=C3=B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1 > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWTM1KAAoJEKzTrZPPgKKDwzwP/30QYmn4IcR+c2ilqA3GwRw5 > DgjjjV52P2VWBJgS0pz32X9zqdXPauhuhHbW2b5QqBJvMucnZGX5j4vO+02x2xt8 > UbKUoPMu1XZariBrpeyIboY+5nXtSLk1sfIqiVwblXdT1HhQCXhStNs/BUP09tW5 > FOvUA/ckPNSwot+41P0qUei+52o4+cJEbwJdr9U7v78oRnNQTLlqnkClAxm7qTqk > /MaXYMtFsB7oUleS9vDtGizmUco6mfCC6Y0iiNrQ/6vOKj6dm83d+vnkS+rmQuyd > K34TN/uulj2foN+Aqa4bAYxafdd8iduzSu9Qc8ALOqBn6fjl7UoEdFIy6gMJCXu4 > Tntwxl5s8I1RzFwvLjaOJmEaiJxraelfljfRs5cWSRgtt4LIA06i4SIFCnNumr4q > wwq3ef+9S/4cCe3d/DF5RK51McovVVO+LbK7PaJXTyAnmV356dnryhx9EtM9iY3x > NokU9khwOycppne1qjlwzWdGI+K7VN4IEYzZ19T12DFvYv1BI/q+PN1IL9FSDZZQ > oQ+At+apLQOcy1e+g7ZGbsJebNMby6hU+viIK1jQg2TyNwxKYNV789TS4JVYP5xN > eS7g9Ef9pQ2lQH2Rq3omTlj7VOKeccUt28bFQiUl2NtDUpzNKsDxcdLx61aB8EqC > TYoEp+X8JT6YpbeHdg7t > =3DRaFm > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > --=20 Maureen Patricia Hern=C3=A1ndez Gonz=C3=A1lez hernandezgmaureenp@gmail.com skype: maureenhg9 +58-424-783-6757 --001a11c1e08e0b472405250ee423 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All, first congratulations to guifi.netm I'm sti= ll reading the paper and I think it's really well structured, to facili= tate the understanding and promote the content it would be nice to have som= e sord of video visualization of that info, maybe could help to better unde= rstanding.

=C2=A0On the other hand about the GAIA meetin= g this 30th November , it would be some remote participation, livestream, o= r a video after?

kind regards,

2015-11-18 14:41 GMT-04:30 Roger = Baig Vi=C3=B1as <roger.baig@guifi.net>:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi David,

In-line

On 11/17/2015 08:31 PM, David Johnson wrote:
> Thanks Roger for the nudge
>
> Africa is a tough environment and we continue to fight on. There
> are some projects that are showing successes even in this tough
> environment like the VillageTelco project in Mankosi (thanks to the > initiative of Steve song and co.) . Wireless User Groups (WUGs)
> community built WiFi networks are also fairly popular in many
> cities in South Africa. We also used some of our early mesh work to > connect 200 rural schools and empower small rural village operators > to expand connectivity from these anchor clients - but its hard to
> keep this sustainable when there is little economic activity in the > area.

I can imagine (I had the opportunity to visit Namibia last year).

>
> We keep exploring and iterating through different models - hoping
> more open access fibre expanding across the country is also going
> to help things. TV white space (our current focus) is also going
> to open up opportunities to reach low density rural populations
> for less.

I agree. What works in South-West Europe might not work in other
regions due to socio-economic reasons among others. Nonetheless I
think it is worth that the practitioners still fight to keep the
principles alive (non-speculative access, openness, etc.), not only
for good humanitarian reasons but because I'm totally convinced that they lead to most efficient usage of the resources (no duplication,
everybody contributing to the same resource, etc.). microISPs and the
rest of the local entrepreneurs must understand that collaboration
turns into better profits for them than fierce competition (for
example, the only option they have to face big telcos competition is
through collaboration).

Kind regards.

>
> Regards David
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as
> <roger.baig@guifi.net&g= t; wrote: David,
>
> As we have witnessed in guifi.net, sometimes some
> initiatives/projects need some iterations. So please, do not give
> up. Give it another try, maybe this is the one!
>
> And one recommendation. Reuse as much as possible of what's out > there to be able to focus your efforts in facing the
> particularities of your case.
>
> Best regards
>
> On 11/17/2015 03:32 PM, David Johnson wrote:
>>>> Well done to all - I feel like you got right what we were<= br> >>>> trying to do in Wireless Africa back in 2006
>>>> (http://wirelessafrica.meraka.org.za) - afte= r some
>>>> inspiration from Frefunk at the time but never quite got >>>> there
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jim Forster
>>>> <jrforster@mac.com= > wrote:
>>>>> Kudos indeed!=C2=A0 A wonderful success story.=C2=A0 I= confess to not
>>>>> really understanding the dynamics of planning, conflic= t
>>>>> resolutions, sharing & compensation, etc., but I w= ish I
>>>>> did!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Steve Song
>>>>> <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for sharing this Leandro.=C2=A0 Kudos to all in= volved in
>>>>>=C2=A0 Guifi.net.=C2=A0 So well deserved!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers... Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 November 2015 at 18:25, Leandro Navarro
>>>>> <leandro@ac.upc.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This evening we had the award ceremony in Brussels= where
>>>>>> the guifi.net community network got the European=
>>>>>> Broadband Award from the European= Commission for its
>>>>>> =E2=80=9Cinnovative model of financing, business a= nd investment=E2=80=9D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ec= .europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/five-projects-got-fir
st-
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
ever-european-broadband-award
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> The video about guifi.net:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= =3DgD3HYeD4Lm4
>>>>>> A paper that describes its socio-economic and gove= rnance
>>>>>>=C2=A0 model:
>>>>>> http://people.ac.u= pc.edu/leandro/pubs/crowds-guifi-en.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
If you come to the next GAIA workshop (London, Nov 30,
>>>>>> colocated with the ACM-DEV confer= ence) you=E2=80=99ll be able to
>>>>>>=C2=A0 participate in a world-cafe style discussion= on
>>>>>> socio-economic or business/sustainability models o= f
>>>>>> infrastructures and services for GAIA. Guif= i.net, among
>>>>>> other initiatives, will be there.=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope to see some of you in our next GAIA worksho= p, --
>>>>>> Leandro Navarro http://people.ac.upc.edu/le= andro
>>>>>> http://dsg.ac.upc.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________= _____________________ gaia
>>>>>> mailing list gaia= @irtf.org
>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/list= info/gaia
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia >>>>> mailing list gaia@irt= f.org
>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo= /gaia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia >>>>> mailing list gaia@irt= f.org
>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo= /gaia
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ gaia maili= ng
>>>> list gaia@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gai= a
>>>>
>
>

- --
Roger Baig Vi=C3=B1as
Fundaci=C3=B3 Privada per a la Xarxa Oberta, Lliure i Neutral guifi.net

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_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



--
=

Maureen Patricia Hern=C3=A1ndez Gonz=C3=A1lez =C2=A0

hernandezgmaureenp@gmail.com=C2=A0=C2=A0

skype: maureenhg9

+58-424-783-6757

--001a11c1e08e0b472405250ee423-- From nobody Sun Nov 22 16:29:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229B31B2AC8 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:29:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qXjFlNypieI9 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (1.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.63.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C759E1A6F5B for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 16:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail240.ha.ovh.net (b6.ovh.net [213.186.33.56]) by mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AA454FFC3C4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 01:29:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (HELO queueout) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Nov 2015 02:29:17 +0200 Received: from 254.227.197.178.dynamic.wless.zhbmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch (HELO ?192.168.43.179?) (panayotis@nethood.org@178.197.227.254) by ns0.ovh.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2015 02:29:15 +0200 To: gaia@irtf.org References: From: panayotis antoniadis Message-ID: <56525DDA.1040901@nethood.org> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 01:29:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020003000007060009080503" X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 6762999267041394526 X-Ovh-Remote: 178.197.227.254 (254.227.197.178.dynamic.wless.zhbmb00p-cgnat.res.cust.swisscom.ch) X-Ovh-Local: 213.186.33.20 (ns0.ovh.net) X-OVH-SPAMSTATE: OK X-OVH-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-OVH-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekhedrieelucetufdoteggodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecu X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekhedrieelucetufdoteggodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] Crowdfunding campaign for the production of a documentary about wireless mesh networks in Greece X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 00:29:25 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020003000007060009080503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, In light of the success of guifi.net at the European Broadband Awards, I would like to draw again your attention to this crowdfunding campaign, which needs some considerable contributions the next *three days* to reach its goal. https://goteo.org/project/building-communities-of-commons?lang=en I think that such documentaries are a critical step to render this commons-based approach on networking better understood and an attractive alternative to mainstream options. Personally I am not part of the project but I have been following it closely and I think that it is really worth the support. Best, Panayotis Antoniadis http://nethood.org On 30.10.2015 22:12, George Klissiaris wrote: > *Building Communities of Commons in Greece > A documentary about "Sarantaporo.gr Wireless Community Network" in Greece* > > On October 16th 2015, the Personal Cinema group > , in cooperation with Sarantaporo.gr > Non Profit Organization , launched a > crowdfunding campaign at goteo.org crowdfunding platform > to > gather resources for the production of a documentary titled *Building > Communities of Commons in Greece - A documentary about mesh and > community networks in Sarantaporo area in Greece*. > > The documentary concerns the area of Sarantaporo, a village in > Elassona Municipality in central Greece, where four years ago a group > of people initiated the set up of a wireless community network > (Sarantaporo.gr Community Network), now available in Sarantaporo and > 14 more neighbouring villages. This infrastructure > is not > only about offering remote areas the opportunity of internet access, > but it is also about creating a model for development, operation and > expansion of community wireless networks to be replicated in other > distant areas. Furthermore, it is about building communities aiming at > local socioeconomic development and collaborative production of common > goods (like common infrastructures). > > The resources raised by the campaign will allow, not only the > completion of the documentary, but also its best possible utilization > by organizing public projections and open discussions to communicate > and support the project and to raise awareness about wireless > community networks and the commons - production models based on the > principle of peer production and social economy. > > You can see a promo trailer video of the documentary here > and a promo video of the > crowdfunding campaign here > . (english subtitles are > available) > > Your contribution both co-financing and spreading the word about this > campaign will be essential for the documentary completion and raising > awareness about community networks and the commons. You can see who > has already co-finance this project here > . > > *Visit the campaign's web page:* > https://goteo.org/project/building-communities-of-commons?lang=en > > Thank you in advance! > > George Klissiaris > Sarantaporo.gr > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --------------020003000007060009080503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Dear all,

In light of the success of guifi.net at the European Broadband Awards,
I would like to draw again your attention to this crowdfunding campaign,
which needs some considerable contributions the next *three days* to
reach its goal.

https://goteo.org/project/building-communities-of-commons?lang=en

I think that such documentaries are a critical step to render this
commons-based approach on networking better understood and
an attractive alternative to mainstream options.

Personally I am not part of the project but I have been following it
closely and I think that it is really worth the support.

Best,

Panayotis Antoniadis
http://nethood.org


On 30.10.2015 22:12, George Klissiaris wrote:
Building Communities of Commons in Greece
A documentary about "Sarantaporo.gr Wireless Community Network" in Greece


On October 16th 2015, the Personal Cinema group, in cooperation with Sarantaporo.gr Non Profit Organization, launched a crowdfunding campaign at goteo.org crowdfunding platform to gather resources for the production of a documentary titled Building Communities of Commons in Greece - A documentary about mesh and community networks in Sarantaporo area in Greece.

The documentary concerns the area of Sarantaporo, a village in Elassona Municipality in central Greece, where four years ago a group of people initiated the set up of a wireless community network (Sarantaporo.gr Community Network), now available in Sarantaporo and 14 more neighbouring villages. This infrastructure is not only about offering remote areas the opportunity of internet access, but it is also about creating a model for development, operation and expansion of community wireless networks to be replicated in other distant areas. Furthermore, it is about building communities aiming at local socioeconomic development and collaborative production of common goods (like common infrastructures).

The resources raised by the campaign will allow, not only the completion of the documentary, but also its best possible utilization by organizing public projections and open discussions to communicate and support the project and to raise awareness about wireless community networks and the commons - production models based on the principle of peer production and social economy.

You can see a promo trailer video of the documentary here and a promo video of the crowdfunding campaign here. (english subtitles are available)

Your contribution both co-financing and spreading the word about this campaign will be essential for the documentary completion and raising awareness about community networks and the commons. You can see who has already co-finance this project here.

Visit the campaign's web page:
https://goteo.org/project/building-communities-of-commons?lang=en

Thank you in advance!

George Klissiaris
Sarantaporo.gr


_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--------------020003000007060009080503-- From nobody Tue Nov 24 01:23:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FE91ACDD0 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 01:23:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.905 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.905 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jcsHxuGm7xuA for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 01:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.ictp.it (smtp1.ictp.it [140.105.16.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3631ACDCD for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 01:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.ictp.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2887460C73B1 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:23:30 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp1.ictp.it Received: from smtp1.ictp.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.ictp.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with LMTP id cEf4zCnFRCyg for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:23:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from [140.105.28.21] (unknown [140.105.28.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp1.ictp.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D7E360C73AF for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:23:28 +0100 (CET) From: Marco Zennaro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_75332809-6599-47CB-AC48-DF376127CE81" Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:23:28 +0100 To: gaia@irtf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] Going the last mile: The power of affordable Internet access X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:23:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_75332809-6599-47CB-AC48-DF376127CE81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Going the last mile: The power of affordable Internet access, article by = Peggy Johnson - Executive Vice President, Business Development of = Microsoft: = http://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2015/11/23/going-the-last-mile-the-power-o= f-affordable-internet-access/ = Best, Marco Marco Zennaro, PhD Telecommunications / ICT for Development Laboratory the Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics Strada Costiera 11 34014 Trieste Italy Telephone: +39 040 2240 406 Web: http://wireless.ictp.it --Apple-Mail=_75332809-6599-47CB-AC48-DF376127CE81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Going the last mile: The power of affordable Internet access, article by Peggy Johnson - Executive Vice President, Business Development of Microsoft:


Best,
Marco



Marco Zennaro, PhD
Telecommunications / ICT for Development Laboratory
the Abdus Salam International Centre for Theoretical Physics
Strada Costiera 11
34014 Trieste
Italy

Telephone: +39 040 2240 406
Web:          http://wireless.ictp.it

--Apple-Mail=_75332809-6599-47CB-AC48-DF376127CE81-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:36:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2F01B3A5B for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Al5z5gl-PlF7 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E7C91B3A5A for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by obbnk6 with SMTP id nk6so63825348obb.2 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=S7tFn77q/IqD/EiVvL8zRiwS2qH7gduUbtnqDLoRRKg=; b=CSDy+jf/GB80jEqq5LGFCS2ph11JyQoD+Iir5GftgtNNCEPwVNKgbuBouHAACC5NLl 2WmaP+cGSuGnfN+PSXiZlOBZaOpcS2FRi2LlPig+c/Qpnf1vWpou/s2vxT9+RFRW1YOm mp9PQM1dtTL5kqsRLoCkwR8gcz1YBQuQwt8caeBraMrNSd7uJ8v+ln3j8zD8wBYJH13u VKZyAGVj2O84A4sqWJ80lwlO5UUKsCSE7Nz/H+WE7h1nTAsa+gtDBRBUMTyLITE7lNk9 VV+NSXsLXut0DWDyPvRMeQoP8vwlH4IBIzKL9KLXR7UTzsWmlXzuCyNbKqEdWQBjMTBd 9ffA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.129.233 with SMTP id nz9mr28093957oeb.48.1448548578670; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.54.214 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:36:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:36:18 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lYQWew9MPuShnKRFd2peFufQkOg Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b16375178c1420525727fc0 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:36:20 -0000 --047d7b16375178c1420525727fc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone. https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). Thanks... Steve Song --047d7b16375178c1420525727fc0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

Following on some of the previo= us discussion about the non-linear relationship between Internet speed and = value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-ra= ting at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the= dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the con= clusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would = benefit everyone.


Wou= ld love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

Thank= s... Steve Song
--047d7b16375178c1420525727fc0-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:38:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACECB1B3A67 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FX1u2DRLYvMz for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x232.google.com (mail-lf0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45E9E1B3A60 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfaz4 with SMTP id z4so100019390lfa.0 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0VgKViLxsU746AEh99tY6LgruZDGk36coP+TjppVOFc=; b=p3T8YYf4UcLsLkIYeAv/9CVHJ1zmwyRmIMW8ZIQOS9gtDFPfnYSjKWi8hhFa/gu/WV PRcNTDS5v9Fr5T9OYZvOTbwrKpc0YjVZgaUAhmgUriP3oghVXGhNM4haKxY/IvBlz9sH PcDt/FI7NvpPN+h/1gZuSOeJQrXLCB6o54EmeG1/EJbdwbIDikCL5kMKcb1WbTFmUrbK 3A4vdD37KGCBnGvjGStFBVF+fL5SJOpKdT0qptLEN7GczsVclHcR1BN5mLm8mIP1Hc03 P6RIwh9f8f9Bt7h+ZcHT8gtq2i1rFdNU1Q7/cm56br/3t5QKPKD+X95QjxAV2IbCQpFD Gvlw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.156.73 with SMTP id f70mr17571283lfe.70.1448548713350; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:33 -0800 (PST) Sender: crowcroft@gmail.com Received: by 10.25.21.160 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:38:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:38:33 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0biwIHhmNQwfjvaq6JwMY42eHYQ Message-ID: From: Jon Crowcroft To: Steve Song Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114017c67fcfc80525728760 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:38:36 -0000 --001a114017c67fcfc80525728760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radio so they can receive quake warnings, only more general - nice! On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song wrote: > Hi all, > > Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear > relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and > reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and > thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of > mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a > low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit > everyone. > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ > > Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). > > Thanks... Steve Song > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --001a114017c67fcfc80525728760 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radi= o so they can receive quake warnings, only more general - nice!

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at= 2:36 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:
Hi all,

Followi= ng on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear relationship bet= ween Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of th= e discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAY= G model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging ma= rkets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for = all mobile phones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).
Thanks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


--001a114017c67fcfc80525728760-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:45:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23371B3A6D for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:45:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P4c1C-D_CDvm for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx141.netapp.com (mx141.netapp.com [216.240.21.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEDEB1B3A69 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:45:44 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,347,1444719600"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="83995297" Received: from hioexcmbx05-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.122.105.38]) by mx141-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2015 06:45:27 -0800 Received: from HIOEXCMBX07-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.40) by hioexcmbx05-prd.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:45:27 -0800 Received: from HIOEXCMBX07-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([::1]) by hioexcmbx07-prd.hq.netapp.com ([fe80::b1d1:a335:f931:d4d5%21]) with mapi id 15.00.1130.005; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:45:27 -0800 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Steve Song Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFf2oOv2Dfbk70+ZaCCICbYgK56u55eA Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:45:26 +0000 Message-ID: <6A481E78-D3F7-4180-9C56-F5BEFA6C4C17@netapp.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.122.56.79] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F1552F23-DF86-4FB6-9053-CE11DCDC650A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:45:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F1552F23-DF86-4FB6-9053-CE11DCDC650A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E6F09CA1-8CBD-4542-B359-48DB27AA4FBF" --Apple-Mail=_E6F09CA1-8CBD-4542-B359-48DB27AA4FBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2015-11-26, at 15:36, Steve Song wrote: > Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear = relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and = reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and = thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth = of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a = low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit = everyone. When I was at Nokia, we did an offsite ca. 2009 in Oulu and visited = Radio Arcala (someone else's blog about them is = http://g7vjr.org/2013/02/radio-arcala-visit-oh8x-finland/ = ). One topic = discussed in the sauna was exactly whether a few large antennas like = this could cover the globe low-bitrate, and what such connectivity = could be used for. I thought the idea was very cool (and still think it = is), but Nokia was preoccupied with other issues and nothing ever came = out of it. Lars --Apple-Mail=_E6F09CA1-8CBD-4542-B359-48DB27AA4FBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On 2015-11-26, at 15:36, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> = wrote:
Following = on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear relationship = between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some = of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about = the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in = emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on = Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone.

When I was at Nokia, = we did an offsite ca. 2009 in Oulu and visited Radio Arcala (someone = else's blog about them is http://g7vjr.org/2013/02/radio-arcala-visit-oh8x-finland/).= One topic discussed in the sauna was exactly whether a few large = antennas like this could cover the globe  low-bitrate, and what = such connectivity could be used for. I thought the idea was very cool = (and still think it is), but Nokia was preoccupied with other issues and = nothing ever came out of it.

Lars
= --Apple-Mail=_E6F09CA1-8CBD-4542-B359-48DB27AA4FBF-- --Apple-Mail=_F1552F23-DF86-4FB6-9053-CE11DCDC650A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWVxsGAAoJEFS1wwm/cMFX+FIQAM8H1Wtc8+KdYgyTXTpF/bZx M9WPNekiPkBWJN3/UKP2mjgA4NrQQdBYatXCuFqKhBY7oztn7MTZff59r93hG9Jy XIRqzljt/p3a4z9i1z/ptfoVgyOFuA/rjKKYBz3yNsIxBc4FR3NA6bz/zZ0JyZuz 06t/ZBzhHMI4h8OIIaP/ntZGgR3Wf5IvHqNNgf5i/DBmLN01z5kL3oLUg9y9YCrz IztJj3l15W3DIq3SRliYJ7++3hVJXQmN4faOEWDl8qNNZ4BTuwqO5cXtEmjyrf3+ HMuFHZIm2GAtrT6Ik/WW3r0cyDAzLh6DVPsCtVY5VuDbVQRKh/l+u5ziM/KusKbZ SBOSyDCSUFqo/0w7CLmsH1k/jdUJD7vRRh3WTrHp1eeTs7Gw9wMblumo68pXKfh7 BiJdKuOUTi59j7s/yodIGX9p+HQR69ISnFcMDehaAM7nA+51QqgsztjE24TxBi/l dm3H7xbK4j/CpKxkZ84oXlAyLlfmzulPgKSkU37YL3++wTt3cSmR98FrWyUdUbi6 qKsYgUBgkkHJXPIXLDGPXOw0oUR8AZDluk6WAdZLW9tlfm6URYkgjV6+tqPX2p8Q ZzZvXzXusZdlwfie2euEOlqqVdOdOglug7EymVJGwujnKBH8oSOZL07R3pV5yvt2 Zxyoaxn6pI44qhDAxhaJ =4/VI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F1552F23-DF86-4FB6-9053-CE11DCDC650A-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:46:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5AD1B3A73 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YupauYKNEhQ0 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com (mail-lf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7A3F1B3A70 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfaz4 with SMTP id z4so100247519lfa.0 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=hlieQP3w/86dJS6U3UiReEm8eDZhmquKO2pLfoZOCaA=; b=cumQKWZb9OPcCfWL/a7Ve9lrj4XxbyrhsalzulDlVImg90r1Wgxk/yNixyY6Wgsz6m NO5ny8uD7fScUPN16WVQiMuAh3rPfWYanRtJ1XVfufJgOJKgmokf9mUPZtOnv+CakMjN sH0YquYHZVWPIwqr8ibK9zPq4l31kynVPKouIueG7hA78ubkk0Df93Co2cApsfh/o1IF WD9t/5QTeZkshiboI03aHgCvOaCFrjz8UreGB4lO27BFj5ZdPGjKIKnp4z5NeQ9X9grE AgzAmo+gZYWC7jGZPZHRbMvKPw9AohVzXnYdjiRsI6t6iqzejBNIXHqhZ2S0y4dYTJOd kjuQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.148.202 with SMTP id w193mr18402482lfd.130.1448549181997; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:21 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:46:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:46:21 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: xZ_eTG0gkzomlKsLyarsZxGDJss Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: Jon Crowcroft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114035ec6ec8ef052572a3ba Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:46:25 -0000 --001a114035ec6ec8ef052572a3ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 it will be really great to understand the lowest common denominator of usable info that can be currently sent through such low rate capacity link -- if there are any studies it will be great I think.. arjuna On 26 November 2015 at 14:38, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radio so they can > receive quake warnings, only more general - nice! > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of >> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >> everyone. >> >> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >> >> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >> >> Thanks... Steve Song >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > -- Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --001a114035ec6ec8ef052572a3ba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
it will be really great to understand the lowest common de= nominator of usable info that can be currently sent through such low rate c= apacity link -- if there are any studies it will be great I think..
arjuna

On 26 November 2015 at 14:38, Jon Crowcroft = <jon.cro= wcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM rad= io so they can receive quake warnings, only more general - nice!

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>= wrote:
Hi all,

Following on some of t= he previous discussion about the non-linear relationship between Internet s= peed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discussions o= n zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model that en= abled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came t= o the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phon= es would benefit everyone.

https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/

Wo= uld love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

Than= ks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia




--
--001a114035ec6ec8ef052572a3ba-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 06:50:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08FF1B3A7A for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:50:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NvzeMvDsaB9i for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx144.netapp.com (mx144.netapp.com [216.240.21.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE9691B3A75 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:50:04 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,347,1444719600"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="82761094" Received: from hioexcmbx02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.122.105.35]) by mx144-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2015 06:49:04 -0800 Received: from HIOEXCMBX07-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.40) by hioexcmbx02-prd.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:49:04 -0800 Received: from HIOEXCMBX07-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([::1]) by hioexcmbx07-prd.hq.netapp.com ([fe80::b1d1:a335:f931:d4d5%21]) with mapi id 15.00.1130.005; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:49:04 -0800 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Steve Song Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFf2oOv2Dfbk70+ZaCCICbYgK56u55eAgAABAwA= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:49:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6A481E78-D3F7-4180-9C56-F5BEFA6C4C17@netapp.com> In-Reply-To: <6A481E78-D3F7-4180-9C56-F5BEFA6C4C17@netapp.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.122.56.79] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0203AF8D-3F9B-46ED-8199-3E43E3789D17"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:50:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0203AF8D-3F9B-46ED-8199-3E43E3789D17 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_529EC742-F063-43E5-BE28-D88F64B53D6B" --Apple-Mail=_529EC742-F063-43E5-BE28-D88F64B53D6B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii And of course I forgot to link to their actual page at = http://www.radioarcala.com On 2015-11-26, at 15:45, Eggert, Lars wrote: >=20 > On 2015-11-26, at 15:36, Steve Song > wrote: >> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear = relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and = reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and = thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth = of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a = low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit = everyone. >=20 > When I was at Nokia, we did an offsite ca. 2009 in Oulu and visited = Radio Arcala (someone else's blog about them is = http://g7vjr.org/2013/02/radio-arcala-visit-oh8x-finland/ = ). One topic = discussed in the sauna was exactly whether a few large antennas like = this could cover the globe low-bitrate, and what such connectivity = could be used for. I thought the idea was very cool (and still think it = is), but Nokia was preoccupied with other issues and nothing ever came = out of it. >=20 > Lars > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --Apple-Mail=_529EC742-F063-43E5-BE28-D88F64B53D6B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii And of course I forgot to link to their actual page = at http://www.radioarcala.com

On 2015-11-26, at 15:45, Eggert, Lars = <lars@netapp.com> = wrote:

On 2015-11-26, = at 15:36, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:
Following on some of the = previous discussion about the non-linear relationship between Internet = speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the = discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the = PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in = emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on = Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone.

When I was = at Nokia, we did an offsite ca. 2009 in Oulu and visited Radio Arcala = (someone else's blog about them is http://g7vjr.org/2013/02/radio-arcala-visit-oh8x-finland/).= One topic discussed in the sauna was exactly whether a few large = antennas like this could cover the globe  low-bitrate, and what = such connectivity could be used for. I thought the idea was very cool = (and still think it is), but Nokia was preoccupied with other issues and = nothing ever came out of it.

Lars
_______________________________________________=
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= --Apple-Mail=_529EC742-F063-43E5-BE28-D88F64B53D6B-- --Apple-Mail=_0203AF8D-3F9B-46ED-8199-3E43E3789D17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWVxveAAoJEFS1wwm/cMFXx5MP/06Me7EW4F3p0UCk7yvRJSTX TYLds6HlK+oUV60PyZTov07Mbf51+y9zHm3ii9HZPoiht5+Z9Re/IWADBPQuStjh sKz4OrzhYptzZDF6p+F5IwENfoHEJ/QykQi+0xbE8cSKu+eney/nzhEUEyBlQ+ES 9LrWPeN46yqq6oCHIYo9+66IiQMbkN6+xHoJVdfph4EsBbNdBL68mrz45mcyFz/u XFMqvlxUoRZdljUEHThH2xyrJaYl/g9HGW6G0srjw1PuYqN/W3rTyepog8Emo+0a ohGNvfJuCfzyST9U7R/PZNbKP57BsVMlPmy4CGNSAfUb2CC98QAgv3QgMx/weM20 bMN7lZ/629LlF26TIifuHsqkR1f7Sw8CyAcgoKtPGkBkofZ1bQJzP4g7DgKMzXAU 4g4duzkM0qxdBcT0g4I8mKRPtDaWzJhEw3U6CpC8K7OkFHJ82IphOG4Eb9l7AfKb vaUMi4L9o75lZXnvthkpb6sK3f8L+Kik679aoKqY6m4nHU7EqqlAc0tTXLaDMNLe HQ2xUXgnOZ/ZuUBPrVSqdWYXk3dTQqwAi4VyzEocN14Y1WXjlYVTH5jYlIkls/ua Q+ErnEJEFlGmnWecvK7FysJ8gdgGQI+hVL8jN0oTYKkVdbqs8Fi0rT+wTNeLGJkk irCBqDDjoWejXeCwPQu1 =qp8G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0203AF8D-3F9B-46ED-8199-3E43E3789D17-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 07:01:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A727B1B3AA7 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:00:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V_POrysYVMUh for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from moof.catpipe.net (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C151B3AA5 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) by localhost.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE9F4CE8D9; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:00:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([194.28.252.64]) by localhost (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JY26yPSyS2MR; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:00:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from macbook.bluepipe.net (gw.bluepipe.dk [91.221.206.68]) (Authenticated sender: relayuser) by moof.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0CD394CE8D5; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:00:54 +0100 (CET) Received: by macbook.bluepipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4720B50E6442; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:00:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:00:54 +0100 From: Phil Regnauld To: Steve Song Message-ID: <20151126150054.GX33871@macbook.bluepipe.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Darwin 15.0.0 x86_64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:00:59 -0000 Steve Song (stevesong) writes: > I came to the conclusion that a > low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit > everyone. Sort of what you get when you reach your "cap-which-isn't-a-cap" on your postpaid plan in overdeveloped nations. Here it's typically 128 Kbps ad libitum until end of the month. From nobody Thu Nov 26 07:42:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901381B3B63 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.163 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W87XHc6jR1YD for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from millet.cc.columbia.edu (millet.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA8BF1B2CB8 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from hazelnut (hazelnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.213.250]) by millet.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAQFg4ef023981 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:42:32 -0500 Received: from hazelnut (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC357E for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from paneer.cc.columbia.edu (paneer.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.29.4]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC517E for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-yk0-f169.google.com (mail-yk0-f169.google.com [209.85.160.169]) by paneer.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id tAQFgVJk001137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by ykba77 with SMTP id a77so92952919ykb.2 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs-columbia-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=upCekGwXJW23zIxhG36zh5dcsZ3hDD/e2M38Ij0f3fc=; b=nDwQhDi0bfCoBV5b7XUNIIdjGr/BkLKEgJqO3FPMPU32tMojvzHYG56uo3MDEZNtyz l/61PzUiUJQ6QcaeFQwWETzyp4fWGbzDjwGwB6p3XSIQxXbnfQXXM60WJlUxi2IEzFmw l3llmvXVMk8kyFpNYgGlF58BJaiBPYonM3Xs5f43MYgbx6qJYmydzQJ1tFUXDK1r+kPr JYiHts1DChbbBvLk7wad5GBN/BdXgJwX1l9IzSq36AhZHpZN2mE/0INEtbDqOBzd/i9T d7ep18bmZ5srQGVbQuJskhqIvQgmdjAxPrEOWf2ZB/yBOzfhIylm0J5n7joj6/w15pkE 8EcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=upCekGwXJW23zIxhG36zh5dcsZ3hDD/e2M38Ij0f3fc=; b=YGwvaPRCgyFZUenQDj3eyWi195yIXqYSCi67ASM1eh0RID8AiPeqU9FJdGFmRxJw/t wOJiLBhEIrOmXN6/Ck+cpJoymGt816u2zuGdWN2Se4eNSvxWhKHSkCBq7LqxLv9GDWfL vw+aJFtpFPHVlC9HA68/KyUyyIDGPQnIpMp7ir353ZXppknwasbqqG9rNvrOpR4HTziG wncORHUj9iLCMwu6nGGhbSHYIkccE1F0dcIk/iPuyMmXln/sBsz+jY3eQvpzP5HzGhZa BTcSOFUyuEyNgGf4O6YcMBab5A+2SiYtNLRRPAzKZ+doKxVxq+neQDp07S5DZzwt3Z1m q3CA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnmgHLfQi4FWtuiyTI6BHzis+/WiZlb7rwPIMM5DdseMQTLWWSmHK0PALqn5waLvLmduFcYTAnxIcxIKqoqyUZlFhERIkIrogc1bJPslLVN21JWrwP2KOakT43Sdn9nNeHW4zp0 X-Received: by 10.129.27.8 with SMTP id b8mr36425282ywb.175.1448552551111; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.129.27.8 with SMTP id b8mr36425269ywb.175.1448552550952; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.210.215 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:42:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Henning Schulzrinne Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 10:42:11 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jon Crowcroft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114288223d212f0525736c9e X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 128.59.29.4 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:42:35 -0000 --001a114288223d212f0525736c9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Or the Microsoft SPOT watch (also FM). https://gigaom.com/2013/09/03/what-microsoft-got-right-with-its-smartwatch-nearly-a-decade-ago-more-than-you-think/ I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see devices with prepaid connectivity (i.e., paid by the hardware device vendor) - after all, the Amazon Kindle has been doing this for years to deliver books. On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radio so they can > receive quake warnings, only more general - nice! > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of >> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >> everyone. >> >> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >> >> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >> >> Thanks... Steve Song >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --001a114288223d212f0525736c9e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Or the Microsoft SPOT watch (also FM).


I wouldn't be surpr= ised if we'll see devices with prepaid connectivity (i.e., paid by the = hardware device vendor) - after all, the Amazon Kindle has been doing this = for years to deliver books.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon Crowcroft <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
sort of the equiv of all phones in japan shi= p with FM radio so they can receive quake warnings, only more general - nic= e!

On Thu, N= ov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wro= te:
Hi all,

Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear re= lationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting= on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further= about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony = in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on= Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone.


=
Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).<= /div>

Thanks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


--001a114288223d212f0525736c9e-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 07:47:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4C11B3B6D for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IvbRW_xU94kq for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22b.google.com (mail-lf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B8E51B3B6B for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfdl133 with SMTP id l133so101545352lfd.2 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6/bHpvTohUWhd03Fnsar4BAREnc9NuYve7qKBCvGIUQ=; b=kbY4r6kd08xX0HAyQdo+FayIWMkj7j9ZjtYBiQ1zTrM1WHdImZT2EEdnTbL+u+uBKP mUcXgyUDgBsw/Hj1gFLSYM8ivHYhGzTl4lv3aOw/J58/6TzYz1zJ3W8xquX1zoyj23Gw PTR42ASYSlT7RvJx7CyOu+gcjYNKqLoQTu6LEr79UpZ83O2UWemtpSXk9XPACIv+ix5h /OJI3yrvj4kROrW5OuuItjr576CYUciNn6hwhMqdE2q3K/MwPS2rPdz6QvW2kqKwCVb0 AVAgt+0Y372DqvRZ6IN1S7S4i0i4lw2KZ9raqiivUuVlHVTVKKslUCj8d7+FaNGbWGac V2DQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.156.73 with SMTP id f70mr17701919lfe.70.1448552839656; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) Sender: crowcroft@gmail.com Received: by 10.25.21.160 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:47:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:47:19 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: hmYK6dUF1KY8cjSVrj93lFmPDss Message-ID: From: Jon Crowcroft To: Henning Schulzrinne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114017c6723c7b0525737d50 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:47:23 -0000 --001a114017c6723c7b0525737d50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 agree - e.g. #2: for some uk iot deployments (e.g. smart meter) that use your home broadband to get data up to a cloud service, some vendors ship a cellular dongle to add to your home router to provide resilience in the event that your dsl/cable modem line break, so you still get service (typically, a low rate edge/gprs device) - mcuh like the whispernet kindle use, it seems like its usage is low enough to just get bundled in with the contract for the iot ecosystem On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Henning Schulzrinne wrote: > Or the Microsoft SPOT watch (also FM). > > > https://gigaom.com/2013/09/03/what-microsoft-got-right-with-its-smartwatch-nearly-a-decade-ago-more-than-you-think/ > > I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see devices with prepaid connectivity > (i.e., paid by the hardware device vendor) - after all, the Amazon Kindle > has been doing this for years to deliver books. > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon Crowcroft > wrote: > >> sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radio so they can >> receive quake warnings, only more general - nice! >> >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >>> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >>> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >>> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of >>> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >>> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >>> everyone. >>> >>> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >>> >>> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >>> >>> Thanks... Steve Song >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> > --001a114017c6723c7b0525737d50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
agree - e.g. #2:

for some uk iot deploy= ments (e.g. smart meter) that use your home broadband to get data up to a c= loud service, some vendors ship a cellular dongle to add to your home route= r to provide resilience in the event that your dsl/cable modem line break, = so you still get service (typically, a low rate edge/gprs device) - mcuh li= ke the whispernet kindle use, it seems like its usage is low enough to just= get bundled in with the contract for the iot ecosystem

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 3= :42 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> wrote:
Or the Microsoft SPOT wat= ch (also FM).


I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see de= vices with prepaid connectivity (i.e., paid by the hardware device vendor) = - after all, the Amazon Kindle has been doing this for years to deliver boo= ks.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon = Crowcroft <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
sort of the equiv of all phon= es in japan ship with FM radio so they can receive quake warnings, only mor= e general - nice!

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org= > wrote:
Hi al= l,

Following on some of the previous discussion about th= e non-linear relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer;= and reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and t= hinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mo= bile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bit= rate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea criti= qued (gently).

Thanks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



--001a114017c6723c7b0525737d50-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 08:57:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1CA1B2BFB for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9nZmJKmjcc7W for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x234.google.com (mail-ob0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2703A1B2BF8 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by obbbj7 with SMTP id bj7so66274432obb.1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=94iQf29wMeYOQTytFIQpaiq6vgk+qw+ZmWT2+Muicyc=; b=eofZKbN7p47b5Y+Ko+t8GtBSmFRyfqjrmf70101WXnK9Fo5YJkLS2BAMJ48eDCEorO osSLHOQvraRCQej+wzyora3v7VO7IpChGVwYdHQBP6gULKpQfK/kYkEEW0pWKz6bF164 OfGGKlJS7ZyNoMDRgx3HkOoHGjgvdng/hdcg+NM/Ykii0yWneDuKNe3LfDbrrwJybpbq rGuUOvXdjqdYIV+4mMy3nVxiMsEVX8q6KaA1cj7jDD6sFZziAWnW4Fyj5pytt0ga6+P7 4NSXNu5sheNbknomKAbLpaJaopVre1VqBuUlShKKg7uTM7YmyR8REmu6GM3USA/EpvnH WohA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.29.166 with SMTP id l6mr30949061obh.55.1448557030511; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:10 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.54.214 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 08:57:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:57:10 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8ZREqYbfv55PjA7rWn13h-m9FaM Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2980e3d9bd10525747788 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:57:13 -0000 --001a11c2980e3d9bd10525747788 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all, I think there are some very interesting options for what can be done with amateur radio. I am a fan of David Rowe's work on codec2 which is a very low-bitrate codec designed for digital voice over HF frequencies. None of the alternative solutions though have the ubiquitous reach of the mobile phone itself, unless, as Jon suggests, you start including these radios in mobile handset design. A more ambitious prospect. @Phil Exactly! People would go bananas if you completely cut off their Internet once they reached their cap. Cheers... Steve On 26 November 2015 at 11:47, Jon Crowcroft wrote: > agree - e.g. #2: > > for some uk iot deployments (e.g. smart meter) that use your home > broadband to get data up to a cloud service, some vendors ship a cellular > dongle to add to your home router to provide resilience in the event that > your dsl/cable modem line break, so you still get service (typically, a low > rate edge/gprs device) - mcuh like the whispernet kindle use, it seems like > its usage is low enough to just get bundled in with the contract for the > iot ecosystem > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Henning Schulzrinne > wrote: > >> Or the Microsoft SPOT watch (also FM). >> >> >> https://gigaom.com/2013/09/03/what-microsoft-got-right-with-its-smartwatch-nearly-a-decade-ago-more-than-you-think/ >> >> I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see devices with prepaid connectivity >> (i.e., paid by the hardware device vendor) - after all, the Amazon Kindle >> has been doing this for years to deliver books. >> >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon Crowcroft < >> jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> sort of the equiv of all phones in japan ship with FM radio so they can >>> receive quake warnings, only more general - nice! >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >>>> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >>>> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >>>> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of >>>> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >>>> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >>>> everyone. >>>> >>>> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >>>> >>>> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >>>> >>>> Thanks... Steve Song >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gaia mailing list >>>> gaia@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> >> > -- +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org --001a11c2980e3d9bd10525747788 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

I think there are some very int= eresting options for what can be done with amateur radio.=C2=A0 I am a fan = of David Rowe's work on codec2 which is a very low-bitrate codec design= ed for digital voice over HF frequencies.=C2=A0 None of the alternative sol= utions though have the ubiquitous reach of the mobile phone itself, unless,= as Jon suggests, you start including these radios in mobile handset design= .=C2=A0 A more ambitious prospect.

@Phil Exactly! = People would go bananas if you completely cut off their Internet once they = reached their cap. =C2=A0

Cheers... Steve

On 26 November= 2015 at 11:47, Jon Crowcroft <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>= wrote:
agree - e= .g. #2:

for some uk iot deployments (e.g. smart meter) t= hat use your home broadband to get data up to a cloud service, some vendors= ship a cellular dongle to add to your home router to provide resilience in= the event that your dsl/cable modem line break, so you still get service (= typically, a low rate edge/gprs device) - mcuh like the whispernet kindle u= se, it seems like its usage is low enough to just get bundled in with the c= ontract for the iot ecosystem

On Thu, N= ov 26, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu&g= t; wrote:
Or the = Microsoft SPOT watch (also FM).


I wouldn't be surprised i= f we'll see devices with prepaid connectivity (i.e., paid by the hardwa= re device vendor) - after all, the Amazon Kindle has been doing this for ye= ars to deliver books.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jon Crowcroft <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
sort of the equiv of all phones in japan = ship with FM radio so they can receive quake warnings, only more general - = nice!

On Thu= , Nov 26, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> = wrote:
Hi all,

<= /div>
Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear= relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflect= ing on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking furt= her about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telepho= ny in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always= -on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently= ).

Thanks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia



_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia






--
=
= +1 902 529 0046
<= br>
--001a11c2980e3d9bd10525747788-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 11:51:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753F21B2DBF for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:51:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.253 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.253 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=1.047, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1oMndQGFAQDx for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com (nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com [17.158.88.160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F28F41B2DBE for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (SuperWireless.redshift.com [216.228.21.139]) by nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NYF005UKTTY9140@nk11p12im-asmtp001.me.com> for gaia@irtf.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 19:51:36 +0000 (GMT) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F049770A-8330-437C-8940-21EE2BC64CE6" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Jim Forster In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 11:51:34 -0800 Message-id: References: To: Steve Song X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2015-11-26_12:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=0 kscore.compositescore=1 compositescore=0.9 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 rbsscore=0 spamscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.9 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510090000 definitions=main-1511260358 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 19:51:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F049770A-8330-437C-8940-21EE2BC64CE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Steve, I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! =20 AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot = systems. One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and = Garwhal district of Uttrakhand. Facebook/Internet.org = did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the = access points on our backbone in that district and manages the sales = agents. See this NY Time article = for more info. It is intended that this system = will use their Free Basics system to give free access to certain sites. The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple = AirJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity = features. JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout = AirJaldi=E2=80=99s network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and = Jharkand. JaldiFi does not use Free Basics; instead we simply give = registered users 10-20MB/day free service. Registration is free and = automated (users must supply a mobile phone number & then we send them a = username/pw). It=E2=80=99s obvious but worth noting that 10MB is = 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 users don=E2=80=99t = impact the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the service is = priced affordably, enough people will pay to make it worth our while. = Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little = Rs25. Kumaon area prices are here . = =20 Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently. For about 300Ksh, users = get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have that = much money, they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh. Mawingu = doesn=E2=80=99t give them completely unlimited service, but we find that = the great majority of customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for us; email = & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video watching = eats up the MBs quickly. The heaviest users will find then that their = speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps. That=E2=80=99s fine for email = & tolerable for web browsing so they=E2=80=99re not cut off, but if they = want more high speed for video, they=E2=80=99ll need to pay some more. US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone!=20 =E2=80=94 Jim > On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear = relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and = reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and = thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth = of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a = low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit = everyone. >=20 > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ = >=20 > Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >=20 > Thanks... Steve Song --Apple-Mail=_F049770A-8330-437C-8940-21EE2BC64CE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Steve,

I = think it=E2=80=99s a great idea!  

AirJaldi has been recently offering two = different pre-paid hot spot systems.  One, called XWF (Express = WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and Garwhal district of Uttrakhand. =  Facebook/Internet.org did the software for XWF; AirJaldi = deployed the access points on our backbone in that district and manages = the sales agents.  See this NY Time article for = more info.  It is intended that this system will use their Free = Basics system to give free access to certain sites.

The second pre-paid = service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple AirJaldi engineers did = the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity features. =  JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=E2=80=99s= network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand.  JaldiFi = does not use Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users = 10-20MB/day free service.  Registration is free and automated = (users must supply a mobile phone number & then we send them a = username/pw).  It=E2=80=99s obvious but worth noting that 10MB is = 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 users don=E2=80=99t = impact the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the service is = priced affordably, enough people will pay to make it worth our while. =  Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as = little Rs25.  Kumaon area prices are here. =  

Mawingu = in Kenya does it a little differently.  For about 300Ksh, users get = high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have that much = money, they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh.  Mawingu = doesn=E2=80=99t give them completely unlimited service, but we find that = the great majority of customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for us; email = & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video = watching eats up the MBs quickly.  The heaviest users will find = then that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps.  That=E2=80=99= s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so they=E2=80=99re not = cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, they=E2=80=99ll = need to pay some more.

US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving = everyone! 


  =E2=80=94 = Jim



On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, = Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:

Hi all,

Following on some of the previous discussion about the = non-linear relationship between Internet speed and value to the = consumer; and reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at = the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the = dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the = conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones = would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea = critiqued (gently).

Thanks... Steve Song

= --Apple-Mail=_F049770A-8330-437C-8940-21EE2BC64CE6-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 12:27:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256E51B2E54 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:27:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DP7631nCrY-7 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from moof.catpipe.net (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845D41B2E52 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) by localhost.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF9D4CE8DA; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:27:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from moof.catpipe.net ([194.28.252.64]) by localhost (moof.catpipe.net [194.28.252.64]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R4jEGbgEr3Qv; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:27:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from macbook.bluepipe.net (x0.dk [194.19.205.214]) (Authenticated sender: relayuser) by moof.catpipe.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EED5F4CE8D5; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:27:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by macbook.bluepipe.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8E93750E9FCA; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:27:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:27:23 +0100 From: Phil Regnauld To: Steve Song Message-ID: <20151126202723.GB33871@macbook.bluepipe.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Darwin 15.0.0 x86_64 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:27:28 -0000 Steve Song (stevesong) writes: > > @Phil Exactly! People would go bananas if you completely cut off their > Internet once they reached their cap. ... if only to access the portal where you can buy more data :D From nobody Thu Nov 26 12:34:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17E61B2E6D for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ep7xzSLX_quT for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 779DB1B2E6B for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C8AB10B164; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:34:44 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4hIZWfa3ZMC0; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:34:44 +0100 (CET) X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted Received: from METHONE.office.hd (methone.office.hd [192.168.24.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C09B10B160; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:34:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.59]) by METHONE.office.hd ([192.168.24.54]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:34:37 +0100 From: Dirk Kutscher To: Jim Forster Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFfb9ql3UA6Y2kW/Y+IYnX/nxp6upkEAgAAcy44= Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:34:37 +0000 Message-ID: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_46EEEEA2E8484CB980D21761C40CDDC2neclabeu_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:34:50 -0000 --_000_46EEEEA2E8484CB980D21761C40CDDC2neclabeu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are two different service categories that I find interesting: 1) Ubiquituous, low-cost (or free) Baseline mobile communication (like T-Mo= bile USA's international 64kbit/s service). 2) Broadcast data service, e.g., over long-range radio or more dense digita= l broadcast services. Japan had digital broadcast in phones since 2006 ("oneseg", based on the Ja= panese ISDB-T standard for digital terrestial broadcast). This could also b= e used for earthquake warnings, and, of course EPG distribution etc. Here is a link to a report by DOCOMO from that time: https://www.nttdocomo.= co.jp/english/binary/pdf/corporate/technology/rd/technical_journal/bn/vol8_= 1/vol8_1_047en.pdf My view is that it's about time to extend the general understanding of mobi= le communication to services like delay-tolerant background transmission or= proactive information distribution. Unfortunately little of this is being considered in the still relatively be= llhead-dominated 5G efforts... -- Dirk Am 26.11.2015 um 20:51 schrieb Jim Forster >: Steve, I think it=92s a great idea! AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot systems= . One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and Garwhal distr= ict of Uttrakhand. Facebook/Internet.org did the soft= ware for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the access points on our backbone in that d= istrict and manages the sales agents. See this NY Time article for more info. It is intended that this system will use their = Free Basics system to give free access to certain sites. The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple AirJal= di engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity features. = JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=92s network, in= cluding Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand. JaldiFi does not use Free Bas= ics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day free service. Reg= istration is free and automated (users must supply a mobile phone number & = then we send them a username/pw). It=92s obvious but worth noting that 10M= B is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =91free=92 users don=92t impact the networ= k much. It=92s our belief that if the service is priced affordably, enough = people will pay to make it worth our while. Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.= 25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25. Kumaon area prices are here. Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently. For about 300Ksh, users get= high speed service for a month, or if they don=92t have that much money, t= hey can buy a week=92s service for 100Ksh. Mawingu doesn=92t give them com= pletely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of customers= don=92t use too much for us; email & web browsing is easily accommodated, = but heavy YouTube/video watching eats up the MBs quickly. The heaviest use= rs will find then that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps. That= =92s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so they=92re not cut off, = but if they want more high speed for video, they=92ll need to pay some more= . US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! =97 Jim On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song > wrote: Hi all, Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear relations= hip between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on som= e of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about = the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emer= ging markets, I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Intern= et for all mobile phones would benefit everyone. https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). Thanks... Steve Song _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --_000_46EEEEA2E8484CB980D21761C40CDDC2neclabeu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There are two different service categories that I find interesting:

1) Ubiquituous, low-cost (or free) Baseline mobile communication (like= T-Mobile USA's international 64kbit/s service).

2) Broadcast data service, e.g., over long-range radio or more dense d= igital broadcast services.

Japan had digital broadcast in phones since 2006 ("oneseg", = based on the Japanese ISDB-T standard for digital terrestial broadcast). Th= is could also be used for earthquake warnings, and, of course EPG distribut= ion etc.


My view is that it's about time to extend the general understanding of= mobile communication to services like delay-tolerant background transmissi= on or proactive information distribution.

Unfortunately little of this is being considered in the still relative= ly bellhead-dominated 5G efforts...


--
Dirk


Am 26.11.2015 um 20:51 schrieb Jim Forster <jrforster@mac.com>:

Steve,

I think it=92s a great idea!  

AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid = hot spot systems.  One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishik= esh and Garwhal district of Uttrakhand.  Facebook/Internet.org did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the access points on our backbone in t= hat district and manages the sales agents.  See this NY Time article for more info.  It is intended that this system will use their Free Basic= s system to give free access to certain sites.

The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi.= A couple AirJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik &= Ubiquity features.  JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout= AirJaldi=92s network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand.  JaldiFi does not use Free Basics; instead we s= imply give registered users 10-20MB/day free service.  Registration is= free and automated (users must supply a mobile phone number & then we = send them a username/pw).  It=92s obvious but worth noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =91free=92 users don=92t i= mpact the network much. It=92s our belief that if the service is priced aff= ordably, enough people will pay to make it worth our while.  Pricing i= s about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25.  Kumaon area prices are here.  

Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently.  For ab= out 300Ksh, users get high speed service for a month, or if they don=92t ha= ve that much money, they can buy a week=92s service for 100Ksh.  Mawin= gu doesn=92t give them completely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of customers don=92t use too much for = us; email & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube/vide= o watching eats up the MBs quickly.  The heaviest users will find then= that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps.  That=92s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so= they=92re not cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, they=92= ll need to pay some more.

US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! 


  =97 Jim



On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:

Hi all,

Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-= linear relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and r= eflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinkin= g further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I cam= e to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile p= hones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

Thanks... Steve Song

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.ir= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia
--_000_46EEEEA2E8484CB980D21761C40CDDC2neclabeu_-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 13:42:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17831A8764 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.163 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CErTh60hpF74 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from millet.cc.columbia.edu (millet.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.72.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E581A8765 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hazelnut (hazelnut.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.213.250]) by millet.cc.columbia.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tAQLe3lv004393 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:42:52 -0500 Received: from hazelnut (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C2781 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:42:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from rambutan.cc.columbia.edu (rambutan.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.29.5]) by hazelnut (Postfix) with ESMTP id A366D80 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:42:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-yk0-f176.google.com (mail-yk0-f176.google.com [209.85.160.176]) by rambutan.cc.columbia.edu (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id tAQLgkk8021355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:42:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by ykfs79 with SMTP id s79so101486613ykf.1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs-columbia-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=VRmd+JTNEHKtu13SG1z5+LtyEcO2c9rcRPP9FKl/QtU=; b=jLCQIkoZBOxZXPE9EsRfEY2WB8UUOqUXiAFGxIR5g48YzGxckSRBZcTli4Tq2T6KSw GkEv5sN/3FHF1uirM1fl6h4DoS31eMrdM5iwlbn7jX22VfpnRslAN24xPb/2nkGMabLo LrtJ0no42wyKBIMQmG4Jjfn0a/H8NGds2sApgycOeYRVBNecO/Rt9WqFRPwQYYe/7Ywx MvF2WqyfAdn9QYT0r5vGKIgAt+HDGqql8GABhCBa+Wb0bF9JMbLoiaeGiziQwmymu9WZ BhHw01vELb+NrUep99YTd747COh+NDTio0/j6V1Nw9FCki3P4LXzexOSrvL2+Jxe7Oa8 lFog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=VRmd+JTNEHKtu13SG1z5+LtyEcO2c9rcRPP9FKl/QtU=; b=daVpuwzcR8ADz59yYvbR8n71ZoEO4+zO0GzwYe0S4/Kvax9cbtltdIo4jr5pZKkl7U spI2ed9QGjdvRwNwIUFuKQItUIKKimisAkZN1CYdSOGfj3G/UNP0P+UkW0UePNg3pcd4 /8P0AO6x3YK/FSbuHcCDkVTfVzXhBrLa1JW5thkM+xqK2APXzf2jWezR7jXd/i5jRgky VdP5Oxm2zfcksROjHPgx9YwV5VhGho5dYl/qM65t7CRyPX/am6wPaR5nKG8CBgCP0A0G dSlNL4mJbIeBf4CeZxY9APJMqMpaFMesGDEIgIKfeO5XqR4vBtuYgVDqvGeHRadVlFsl zg3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm3UUE4Tr2+WKacrgCBEiQDrZNkZHBr/kAg7148BswEkYaAwaxs4psArV+eyoNunmbTE0/RSOkNy/ZdOwLZgHrgCveMIQO/+z160XTTtcrYRyVML1v65XXvLA86qqYhxQ3naHB6 X-Received: by 10.129.109.68 with SMTP id i65mr38228789ywc.179.1448574166056; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.129.109.68 with SMTP id i65mr38228776ywc.179.1448574165906; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.210.215 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 13:42:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> From: Henning Schulzrinne Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:42:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dirk Kutscher Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114dd306972aca05257874ec X-No-Spam-Score: Local X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 128.59.29.5 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 21:42:55 -0000 --001a114dd306972aca05257874ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Broadcast data delivery is being discussed for ATSC 3.0, the possible successor to the current over-the-air TV standard in the US and Canada (and other places). But many of the places that don't have LTE 4G service also have dicey OTA TV reception, e.g., due to being shaded by mountains (think West Virginia or Rocky Mountains). Henning On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > There are two different service categories that I find interesting: > > 1) Ubiquituous, low-cost (or free) Baseline mobile communication (like > T-Mobile USA's international 64kbit/s service). > > 2) Broadcast data service, e.g., over long-range radio or more dense > digital broadcast services. > > Japan had digital broadcast in phones since 2006 ("oneseg", based on the > Japanese ISDB-T standard for digital terrestial broadcast). This could also > be used for earthquake warnings, and, of course EPG distribution etc. > > Here is a link to a report by DOCOMO from that time: > https://www.nttdocomo.co.jp/english/binary/pdf/corporate/technology/rd/technical_journal/bn/vol8_1/vol8_1_047en.pdf > > My view is that it's about time to extend the general understanding of > mobile communication to services like delay-tolerant background > transmission or proactive information distribution. > > Unfortunately little of this is being considered in the still relatively > bellhead-dominated 5G efforts... > > > -- > Dirk > > --001a114dd306972aca05257874ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Broadcast data delivery is being discussed for ATSC 3.0, t= he possible successor to the current over-the-air TV standard in the US and= Canada (and other places). But many of the places that don't have LTE = 4G service also have dicey OTA TV reception, e.g., due to being shaded by m= ountains (think West Virginia or Rocky Mountains).

Henni= ng

On Thu, N= ov 26, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu&g= t; wrote:
There are two different service categories that I find interesting:

1) Ubiquituous, low-cost (or free) Baseline mobile communication (like= T-Mobile USA's international 64kbit/s service).

2) Broadcast data service, e.g., over long-range radio or more dense d= igital broadcast services.

Japan had digital broadcast in phones since 2006 ("oneseg", = based on the Japanese ISDB-T standard for digital terrestial broadcast). Th= is could also be used for earthquake warnings, and, of course EPG distribut= ion etc.


My view is that it's about time to extend the general understandin= g of mobile communication to services like delay-tolerant background transm= ission or proactive information distribution.

Unfortunately little of this is being considered in the still relative= ly bellhead-dominated 5G efforts...


--
Dirk

--001a114dd306972aca05257874ec-- From nobody Thu Nov 26 14:26:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2E61A89A2 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5zN7XESesqhZ for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 515D81A899D for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by wmec201 with SMTP id c201so37422024wme.1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lOADUe4Ajt1sZUoYyu9PEWvoE4E9slKotEWyeEly5pw=; b=mHjB3BFp0n8F0vH/q4qbqwi3z3gl3YDLy/4mUPvB/t8ZMjp5Sti0Y4vUI/FYXKyYxj BuWP5rfh+DdHDkB2f0TMvjFDgUxMXk5LLY3NwyoE6OKft1x8XfWkhRMG4bUvnjbJSkqg phqkhoenKKIp3W5vZyLqwwKKr3p7V9ASm3mEfjJJhwC7ApC8YYF/brAj6ycGNvGVDrKd L8+vO00zLCO/+RThYWT+CcOtyHT/2mAqDeL/CgLtVueE243TGp96PxaSlpC11FdVoXT4 GSeMBAHWNN2/z+iJKx6HwTeB2su02gJZLVm23kgbauHJPwvD4w2bMrKaDfXFTR6Fzbd1 TtnA== X-Received: by 10.28.228.138 with SMTP id b132mr6665862wmh.46.1448576787763; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.13] ([146.64.28.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h7sm4634109wmf.0.2015.11.26.14.26.25 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:26:26 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) From: Simeon Miteff In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:26:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8A13AFF8-BFBB-4DE0-824A-AF45A444FC22@gmail.com> References: To: Steve Song X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Archived-At: Cc: gaia@irtf.org Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2015 22:26:31 -0000 On 26 Nov 2015, at 6:57 PM, Steve Song wrote: > I think there are some very interesting options for what can be done = with amateur radio. I am a fan of David Rowe's work on codec2 which is = a very low-bitrate codec designed for digital voice over HF frequencies. = None of the alternative solutions though have the ubiquitous reach of = the mobile phone itself, unless, as Jon suggests, you start including = these radios in mobile handset design. A more ambitious prospect. Looks like David is building a narrowband modem for Outernet now: = http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=3D4538 Speaking of HF, the idea of globally propagating signals is very = appealing to me (in a romantic, Nikola Tesla/earth-resonance kind of = way).=20 I'm aware of the constraints of spectrum, high power and large antennas, = but I wonder if there is a practical way for an ultra-narrowband HF = uplink to be combined with direct broadcast satellite for an = asymmetrical duplex system (like ISPs use to do with dial-up for the = uplink back in the 1990s)?= From nobody Thu Nov 26 17:11:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB811B3003 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:11:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.886 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 59kaw5oOpmNG for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5468B1B3004 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB293BE2C; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:10:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOof_905iEeO; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:10:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.91] (unknown [86.46.27.82]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 121B3BDCB; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:10:57 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1448586657; bh=0PGT0Pz8TecZaKXGGtIQLOvxaDGndMexouqGnSt4f/g=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=zUiodjXZAA7lqWOWuWxF5WPPwygqQFdRx/hbJZs4JwYoPnWFEP5joJ96+Uwh2Bzrs 1ofeLLWzvkceE4paYC7JyArtFVzjJJTf03K2LFdFiWL0egOxLnJs9bKr0PLmQwhghc 5ACe2/W3wrx/86renKevOq4QbqC7m8oKxF5aaUOg= To: Dirk Kutscher , Jim Forster References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:10:56 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:11:03 -0000 On 26/11/15 20:34, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > Unfortunately little of this is being considered in the still > relatively bellhead-dominated 5G efforts... How would that best be progressed? I think there are good ideas here (adding delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to get those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff. S. From nobody Thu Nov 26 17:22:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413F61B3050 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xm_8oRBYANXj for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x22c.google.com (mail-lf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60FD41B3054 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by lffu14 with SMTP id u14so113351216lff.1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3Cged3TR0dREuVFquIC64MFZa5zgBznohP51MB4Nel8=; b=GeBAlFU4atKdzo8U6oVnERpgdvMQtDYvDtKo5f7k6ACCVsMSKsC0AjQG267lEbPZ4H 2YYhQwQUj9czMocRjcbNIRpTlD3cTgdl35KR99oDiQduJXjJjtgXUtVsrSW+M7kdrw1E hVxF5SMVCBu5mgpqDsHtUW5phpEY4np6pv48ldv7V6Q2oVi5LV3fXzD9uIQJpgpajbF+ XiA5A5NPU6g3u6dy2MXRxIB3JaJs6WVeXzhVOBcqYcvd3RnJL70fT5SCvTVugkR3ZesR a2OKxnosMxVmQ3aUOPaPSmfrN99QRmktl2saL6v5gmM+kbajrQjRngH+U37Zq0/GjHkt WCyQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.42.41 with SMTP id k9mr15868826lbl.63.1448587323464; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:03 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:22:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:22:02 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6ZCPbGrGt1aFtwyLIs5NND4oMt4 Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: Jim Forster Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113367fcd767fe05257b84fe Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 01:22:08 -0000 --001a113367fcd767fe05257b84fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very nice Jim. One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access could be there is quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly consume the usage caps? As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to know what can we browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as steve mentioned earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing that but 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transport protocols work? Regards On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, "Jim Forster" wrote: > Steve, > > I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! > > AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot > systems. One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and > Garwhal district of Uttrakhand. Facebook/Internet.org > did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the > access points on our backbone in that district and manages the sales > agents. See this NY Time article > for > more info. It is intended that this system will use their Free Basics > system to give free access to certain sites. > > The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple > AirJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity > features. JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=E2= =80=99s > network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand. JaldiFi does not > use Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day free > service. Registration is free and automated (users must supply a mobile > phone number & then we send them a username/pw). It=E2=80=99s obvious bu= t worth > noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 us= ers don=E2=80=99t impact > the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the service is priced a= ffordably, > enough people will pay to make it worth our while. Pricing is about > Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25. Kumaon area > prices are here . > > Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently. For about 300Ksh, users > get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have that mu= ch money, > they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh. Mawingu doesn=E2=80=99= t give them > completely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of > customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for us; email & web browsing is easi= ly > accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video watching eats up the MBs quickly. > The heaviest users will find then that their speed slowed way down, to > about 128kbps. That=E2=80=99s fine for email & tolerable for web browsin= g so > they=E2=80=99re not cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, = they=E2=80=99ll > need to pay some more. > > US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! > > > =E2=80=94 Jim > > > > On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song wrote: > > Hi all, > > Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear > relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and > reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and > thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of > mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a > low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit > everyone. > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ > > Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). > > Thanks... Steve Song > > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --001a113367fcd767fe05257b84fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Very nice Jim.

One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access coul= d be there is quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly = consume the usage caps?

As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to kn= ow what can we browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as s= teve mentioned earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing= that but 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transp= ort protocols work?

Regards

On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, "Jim Forster" &l= t;jrforster@mac.com> wrote:
Steve,

I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! = =C2=A0

AirJaldi has been recently offering two dif= ferent pre-paid hot spot systems.=C2=A0 One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is o= ffered in Rishikesh and Garwhal district of Uttrakhand.=C2=A0 Facebook/Internet.org=C2=A0did the= software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the access points on our backbone in t= hat district and manages the sales agents.=C2=A0 See this=C2=A0NY Time article=C2=A0for more i= nfo.=C2=A0 It is intended that this system will use their Free Basics syste= m to give free access to certain sites.

The second= pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple AirJaldi enginee= rs did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity features.=C2=A0 = JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=E2=80=99s networ= k, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand.=C2=A0 JaldiFi does not us= e Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day free ser= vice.=C2=A0 Registration is free and automated (users must supply a mobile = phone number & then we send them a username/pw).=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s obv= ious but worth noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98fre= e=E2=80=99 users don=E2=80=99t impact the network much. It=E2=80=99s our be= lief that if the service is priced affordably, enough people will pay to ma= ke it worth our while.=C2=A0 Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with som= e plans for as little Rs25.=C2=A0 Kumaon area prices are=C2=A0here. =C2=A0
<= div>
Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently.=C2=A0 For= about 300Ksh, users get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2= =80=99t have that much money, they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100= Ksh.=C2=A0 Mawingu doesn=E2=80=99t give them completely unlimited service, = but we find that the great majority of customers don=E2=80=99t use too much= for us; email & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube= /video watching eats up the MBs quickly.=C2=A0 The heaviest users will find= then that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps.=C2=A0 That=E2=80= =99s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so they=E2=80=99re not= cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, they=E2=80=99ll need = to pay some more.

US-centric salutation: Happy Tha= nksgiving everyone!=C2=A0


=C2=A0 = =E2=80=94 Jim



On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrot= e:

Hi all,

Following on s= ome of the previous discussion about the non-linear relationship between In= ternet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discu= ssions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model= that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, = I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mob= ile phones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

<= div>Thanks... Steve Song


__________________= _____________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--001a113367fcd767fe05257b84fe-- From nobody Fri Nov 27 00:52:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8CD1AD370 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:51:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yDssns02I1ZP for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 727F21AD372 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 00:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8FB10B134; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:51:54 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKM3_hZJZAIE; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:51:54 +0100 (CET) X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (enceladus.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B318D10B167; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:51:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.59]) by ENCELADUS.office.hd ([192.168.24.52]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:51:25 +0100 From: Dirk Kutscher To: Stephen Farrell , Jim Forster Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFfb9ql3UA6Y2kW/Y+IYnX/nxp6upkEAgAAcy46AADxwAIAAh9lw Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:51:25 +0000 Message-ID: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B2DD5@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.7.0.207] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:51:59 -0000 PiBIb3cgd291bGQgdGhhdCBiZXN0IGJlIHByb2dyZXNzZWQ/IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGdv b2QgaWRlYXMgaGVyZSAoYWRkaW5nDQo+IGRlbGF5LXRvbGVyYW50IGZlYXR1cmVzIHRvIG1haW5z dHJlYW0gcHJvdG9jb2xzKSBidXQgSSdtIG5vdCBzdXJlIGhvdyB0byBnZXQNCj4gdGhvc2UgaW5n cmFpbmVkIGluIGUuZy4gNWcgc3R1ZmYuDQoNCkluIEV1cm9wZSwgcmV2aWV3IGFuZCBoYXZlIHlv dXIgc2F5IG9uIHdoYXQncyBoYXBwZW5pbmcgaGVyZTogaHR0cHM6Ly81Zy1wcHAuZXUvDQoNClRo ZXJlIGlzIGEgc2Vjb25kIHBoYXNlIG9mIHByb2plY3RzIGluIHByZXBhcmF0aW9uIC0tIHRoYXQg c2hvdWxkIGlkZWFsbHkgY2F0ZXIgZm9yIHRvcGljcyBsaWtlIHRoaXMsIGJ1dCBwZW9wbGUgbmVl ZCB0byBzcGVhayB1cC4NCg0KVGVjaG5pY2FsbHksIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBJQ04gYXMgYSBjb25j ZXB0IGhhcyBnb29kIHBvdGVudGlhbCBhcyBhIG5ldHdvcmsgaW5mcmFzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgdGVjaG5v bG9neSB0aGF0IGNhbiBzcGFuIGJvdGggd2VsbC1jb25uZWN0ZWQgdHJhZGl0aW9uYWwgdHlwZSBv ZiBuZXR3b3JrcyBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIGxlc3MgY29udmVudGlvbmFsIG9uZXMsIGluY2x1ZGluZyB1 bmktZGlyZWN0aW9uYWwgYW5kIGRpc3J1cHRpb24tcHJvbmUgbmV0d29ya3MuDQoNCk9uZSBvZiB0 aGUga2V5d29yZHMgaXMgYWNjZXNzIG5ldHdvcmsgaGV0ZXJvZ2VuZWl0eSwgZS5nLiwgImh5YnJp ZCBhY2Nlc3MiIGluIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IElQIGFjY2VzcyB3b3JsZC4gSXQncyBvYnZpb3VzIHRo YXQgVENQL0lQIChldmVuIE1QVENQKSB3aXRoIEROUy9DRE4gaGFzIGlzc3VlcyBpbiBldmVuIHRo ZSBzaW1wbGUgaHlicmlkIGFjY2VzcyBob21lIGdhdGV3YXkgc2NlbmFyaW8uDQoNCkFub3RoZXIg a2V5d29yZCBpcyB0cmFuc3BvcnQgcGVyZm9ybWFuY2UgKHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHRyYW5zcG9y dCBlbmNyeXB0aW9uIGRpc2N1c3Npb24pOiB3aXRoIGhldGVyb2dlbmVvdXMgYWNjZXNzLCBhbmQg ZXNwZWNpYWxseSB3aXRoIGxvdy1iaXRyYXRlLCB1bnJlbGlhYmxlIHNlY29uZGFyeSBhY2Nlc3Ms IHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGhhdmUgYSBtb3JlIHBvd2VyZnVsIGZvcndhcmRpbmcgcGxhbmUgdGhhdCBj YW4gcmVhY3QgdG8gY2hhbmdpbmcgbGluayBsYXllciBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpc3RpY3MgbG9jYWxseSBh bmQgdGhhdCBjYW4gZW1wbG95IGluLW5ldHdvcmsgc3RvcmFnZSBmb3IgcmVhY3RpbmcgdG8gZGlz cnVwdGlvbi9kZWxheS4gVG9kYXksIG1vYmlsZSBuZXR3b3JrIG9wZXJhdG9ycyBhcmUgdHJ5aW5n IHRvIGFkZHJlc3Mgc29tZSBvZiB0aGVzZSBpc3N1ZXMgd2l0aCBUQ1AgcHJveGllcyBhbmQgYXBw bGljYXRpb24tbGF5ZXIgcHJveGllcyAodGhlIGxhdHRlciB3aWxsIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlY29tZSBt b3JlIGV4cGVuc2l2ZSBpbiB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIGJlY2F1c2Ugb2YgZW5jcnlwdGlvbiwgc2VlIGJl bG93KS4NCg0KRmluYWxseSwgc2VjdXJpdHk6IEkgc2VlIHR3byB0aGluZ3MgaGFwcGVuaW5nOg0K DQoxKSBIVFRQLzIgYW5kIFRMUyA9PiB1YmlxdWl0b3VzIGVuY3J5cHRpb24NCjIpIENETiBleHRl bmRpbmcgaW50byBjb3JlIGFuZCBhY2Nlc3MgbmV0d29ya3MgPT4gbWFueSB2dWxuZXJhYmxlIHBs YXRmb3JtcyB0aGF0IG1hbmFnZSBrZXlzIGFuZCBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZXMgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIG9y aWdpbmFsIGRhdGEgb3duZXJzIGFuZCBzZXJ2aWNlIHByb3ZpZGVycyB0byBtYWludGFpbiBjb25u ZWN0aW9uLWJhc2VkIGVuY3J5cHRpb24NCg0KVGhpcyBkb2VzIG5vdCBsb29rIHZlcnkgcHJvbWlz aW5nIHRvIG1lLiBXZSBvdWdodCB0byBmaWd1cmUgb2JqZWN0LWJhc2VkIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFuZCBm aW5lLWdyYW51bGFyIGFjY2VzcyBjb250cm9sIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoYXQuDQoNCldpdGggdmlydHVh bGl6YXRpb24gZXh0ZW5kaW5nIHRvIGFsbCBwYXJ0cyBvZiB0aGUgbmV0d29yaywgaXQgbm93IGJl Y29tZXMgZmVhc2libGUgdG8gcHJvdG90eXBlIGFuZCBldmFsdWF0ZSBzdWNoIHN5c3RlbXMsIGUu Zy4sIGFzIGEgc2xpY2UgaW4gYSB2aXJ0dWFsaXplZCBtb2JpbGUgbmV0d29yay4NCg0KVGhlcmUg aXMgc29tZSBpbnRlcmVzdGluZyB3b3JrIGdvaW5nIG9uLCBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IHBvaW50ZXJzOg0K DQpodHRwOi8vY29uZmVyZW5jZXMyLnNpZ2NvbW0ub3JnL2FjbS1pY24vMjAxNS9wcm9jZWVkaW5n cy9wMTg5LWF1Z2UucGRmDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9jb25mZXJlbmNlczIuc2lnY29tbS5vcmcvYWNtLWlj bi8yMDE1L3Byb2NlZWRpbmdzL3AxMzctc2NobmVpZGVyLnBkZg0KDQpodHRwOi8vY29uZmVyZW5j ZXMyLnNpZ2NvbW0ub3JnL2FjbS1pY24vMjAxNS9wcm9jZWVkaW5ncy9wMTc3LXl1LnBkZg0KDQoN CkNoZWVycywNCkRpcmsNCg== From nobody Fri Nov 27 04:05:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49EA81A0199 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d3mZkU29Sto1 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00D4E1B334E for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by oies6 with SMTP id s6so61504851oie.1 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=i2ttlEDel3G/e5BJDiBJEttytZbdVqYwHFbkJnnhCIQ=; b=z2VshsfmyxDxaALAIcEsgZj0F/enqBnQuRTay0PYScvSaT9GOIyZ3a7LfyhRgnA9GQ b8ATv1o+AGJXZBU9AV74awIw4KFZAlAFwQOiOtn0ES9eFArT4dYc3y6bm5ye8rxscrQ8 BUc365Rpr3N+xBRDdisKDUQNdOUuDbaWGBEjcimCHU/ay9sgSBEQsjZ8vgl8dgiBOir5 yUOuC+rUlHuEBPTCTlW7ptQL1TSuWL+LZW0XVioSCvabBkQ1iq1vqyI4MH1RsQClpR7T Jgw2ebvTo0bxawZ64DaqtyfauWLJ7xwe/ksvDr10Ho5nWuRy3fnWUMnPKDu4q/3CrJpy Xzww== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.197.150 with SMTP id v144mr32912272oif.31.1448625917264; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:17 -0800 (PST) Sender: stephen.song@gmail.com Received: by 10.202.54.214 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 04:05:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:05:17 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: QF7XhIw3KzHM022wBgcmodMUl_Q Message-ID: From: Steve Song To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f1d8362be005258481aa Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:05:20 -0000 --001a1134f1d8362be005258481aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Arjuna, It is already possible, on Android, to turn off background data updates and to do per-app tuning of background updates and data consumption in general. What I would imagine is that when a phone runs out of data and finds itself in basic rate mode, then it would only update apps/services that have been actively selected by the user e.g. whatsapp, twitter, signal, telegram, FB messenger, email, browser, etc. The selectivity about apps and services would then be in the hands of the consumer not the provider. Cheers... Steve On 26 November 2015 at 21:22, Arjuna Sathiaseelan < arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > Very nice Jim. > > One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access could be there is > quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly consume the > usage caps? > > As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to know what can w= e > browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as steve mentioned > earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing that but > 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transport protocol= s > work? > > Regards > On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, "Jim Forster" wrote: > >> Steve, >> >> I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! >> >> AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot >> systems. One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and >> Garwhal district of Uttrakhand. Facebook/Internet.org >> did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the >> access points on our backbone in that district and manages the sales >> agents. See this NY Time article >> for >> more info. It is intended that this system will use their Free Basics >> system to give free access to certain sites. >> >> The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple >> AirJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity >> features. JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=E2= =80=99s >> network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand. JaldiFi does no= t >> use Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day fre= e >> service. Registration is free and automated (users must supply a mobile >> phone number & then we send them a username/pw). It=E2=80=99s obvious b= ut worth >> noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 u= sers don=E2=80=99t impact >> the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the service is priced = affordably, >> enough people will pay to make it worth our while. Pricing is about >> Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25. Kumaon area >> prices are here . >> >> Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently. For about 300Ksh, users >> get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have that m= uch money, >> they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh. Mawingu doesn=E2=80= =99t give them >> completely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of >> customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for us; email & web browsing is eas= ily >> accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video watching eats up the MBs quickly. >> The heaviest users will find then that their speed slowed way down, to >> about 128kbps. That=E2=80=99s fine for email & tolerable for web browsi= ng so >> they=E2=80=99re not cut off, but if they want more high speed for video,= they=E2=80=99ll >> need to pay some more. >> >> US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! >> >> >> =E2=80=94 Jim >> >> >> >> On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth o= f >> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >> everyone. >> >> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >> >> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >> >> Thanks... Steve Song >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gaia mailing list >> gaia@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >> >> --=20 +1 902 529 0046 stevesong@nsrc.org http://nsrc.org --001a1134f1d8362be005258481aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Arjuna,

It is already possible, on A= ndroid, to turn off background data updates and to do per-app tuning of bac= kground updates and data consumption in general.=C2=A0 What I would imagine= is that when a phone runs out of data and finds itself in basic rate mode,= then it would only update apps/services that have been actively selected b= y the user e.g. whatsapp, twitter, signal, telegram, FB messenger, email, b= rowser, etc. The selectivity about apps and services would then be in the h= ands of the consumer not the provider.

Cheers... S= teve


On 26 November 2015 at 21:22, Arjuna Sathiaseelan <arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Very nice Jim.

One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access coul= d be there is quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly = consume the usage caps?

As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to kn= ow what can we browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as s= teve mentioned earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing= that but 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transp= ort protocols work?

Regards

On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, &qu= ot;Jim Forster" <jrforster@mac.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Steve,

I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! = =C2=A0

AirJaldi has been recently offering two dif= ferent pre-paid hot spot systems.=C2=A0 One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is o= ffered in Rishikesh and Garwhal district of Uttrakhand.=C2=A0 Facebook/Internet.org=C2=A0did the= software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the access points on our backbone in t= hat district and manages the sales agents.=C2=A0 See this=C2=A0NY Time article=C2=A0for more i= nfo.=C2=A0 It is intended that this system will use their Free Basics syste= m to give free access to certain sites.

The second= pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple AirJaldi enginee= rs did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity features.=C2=A0 = JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi=E2=80=99s networ= k, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand.=C2=A0 JaldiFi does not us= e Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day free ser= vice.=C2=A0 Registration is free and automated (users must supply a mobile = phone number & then we send them a username/pw).=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s obv= ious but worth noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98fre= e=E2=80=99 users don=E2=80=99t impact the network much. It=E2=80=99s our be= lief that if the service is priced affordably, enough people will pay to ma= ke it worth our while.=C2=A0 Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with som= e plans for as little Rs25.=C2=A0 Kumaon area prices are=C2=A0here. =C2=A0
<= div>
Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently.=C2=A0 For= about 300Ksh, users get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2= =80=99t have that much money, they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100= Ksh.=C2=A0 Mawingu doesn=E2=80=99t give them completely unlimited service, = but we find that the great majority of customers don=E2=80=99t use too much= for us; email & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube= /video watching eats up the MBs quickly.=C2=A0 The heaviest users will find= then that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps.=C2=A0 That=E2=80= =99s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so they=E2=80=99re not= cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, they=E2=80=99ll need = to pay some more.

US-centric salutation: Happy Tha= nksgiving everyone!=C2=A0


=C2=A0 = =E2=80=94 Jim



On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrot= e:

Hi all,

Following on s= ome of the previous discussion about the non-linear relationship between In= ternet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discu= ssions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model= that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, = I came to the conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mob= ile phones would benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

<= div>Thanks... Steve Song


_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia




--
+1 902 529= 0046
--001a1134f1d8362be005258481aa-- From nobody Fri Nov 27 05:56:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651471A1A9B for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:56:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bTGTyZ8GYJyf for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0798.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::798]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 241FE1A1A99 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from AM3PR01MB1188.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.163.10.26) by AM3PR01MB1186.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.163.10.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.331.20; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:56:29 +0000 Received: from AM3PR01MB1188.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.163.10.26]) by AM3PR01MB1188.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.163.10.26]) with mapi id 15.01.0331.023; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:56:29 +0000 From: "Psaras, Ioannis" To: Dirk Kutscher Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFhVrFCD7/u25k+u7SMnwBe2Ip6utwQAgAAMB4CAAE0zAIAAgKmAgABVPIA= Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:56:29 +0000 Message-ID: <7C848165-5210-4444-83A4-195DBE5C3507@live.ucl.ac.uk> References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B2DD5@PALLENE.office.hd> In-Reply-To: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B2DD5@PALLENE.office.hd> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=i.psaras@ucl.ac.uk; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [144.82.191.162] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR01MB1186; 5:iSfMp1l0cmwjhy+H13/G5UU1MVuGO7c9XD8QMvBG1XzlW3P4zfMMjC1TF4bA4n91BvOza02lJNKcOW7/rZJAZn7bx6TrnGGs2In9KK6zX4s8PJqTh1FJ07Ilg9tVNnsRoHUaLRVBGRQ7Y0RL2588IQ==; 24:MRd9kPopMOCSVPjNodZVd4fTqPUrbSwOH/ou4XIPOnlDBD2pma9GhbBXhsxIW9mmm1/FmjxnH7BOA/NBK0jXvY0Jo7cBbh66aRlRUZsmX5Y= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AM3PR01MB1186; x-ucllive-sclrule: HASRUN x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(57025502571588); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(520078)(10201501046)(3002001); SRVR:AM3PR01MB1186; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM3PR01MB1186; x-forefront-prvs: 0773BB46AC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(51444003)(164054003)(189002)(243025005)(24454002)(199003)(1096002)(122556002)(5001960100002)(81156007)(106356001)(19580405001)(586003)(40100003)(189998001)(3846002)(2900100001)(92566002)(10400500002)(6116002)(97736004)(76176999)(82746002)(5002640100001)(102836003)(105586002)(110136002)(86362001)(74482002)(5004730100002)(33656002)(2950100001)(93886004)(106116001)(19617315012)(5008740100001)(15975445007)(87936001)(101416001)(11100500001)(50986999)(83716003)(16236675004)(54356999)(66066001)(19580395003)(77096005)(1220700001)(7059030)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR01MB1186; H:AM3PR01MB1188.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ucl.ac.uk does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7C8481655210444483A4195DBE5C3507liveuclacuk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ucl.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Nov 2015 13:56:29.7528 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 1faf88fe-a998-4c5b-93c9-210a11d9a5c2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR01MB1186 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:56:52 -0000 --_000_7C8481655210444483A4195DBE5C3507liveuclacuk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very interesting thoughts Dirk. Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that= can employ in-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mob= ile network operators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP p= roxies and application-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more = expensive in the future because of encryption, see below). A pointer on this is our recent work on In-Network Resource Pooling (in ACM= HotNets 2014): http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~uceeips/files/inrpp-hotnets14-ipsa= ras.pdf According to this framework, in-network storage is utilised to temporarily = store/cache data *mid-path* when some link along the path is broken or very= slow/congested. Then transmission resumes when conditions get back to norm= al. It sounds like a good fit for low-bitrate, unreliable links. Thanks, Yiannis. On 27 Nov 2015, at 08:51, Dirk Kutscher > wrote: How would that best be progressed? I think there are good ideas here (addin= g delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to ge= t those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff. In Europe, review and have your say on what's happening here: https://5g-pp= p.eu/ There is a second phase of projects in preparation -- that should ideally c= ater for topics like this, but people need to speak up. Technically, I think that ICN as a concept has good potential as a network = infrastructure technology that can span both well-connected traditional typ= e of networks as well as less conventional ones, including uni-directional = and disruption-prone networks. One of the keywords is access network heterogeneity, e.g., "hybrid access" = in the current IP access world. It's obvious that TCP/IP (even MPTCP) with = DNS/CDN has issues in even the simple hybrid access home gateway scenario. Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that= can employ in-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mob= ile network operators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP p= roxies and application-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more = expensive in the future because of encryption, see below). Finally, security: I see two things happening: 1) HTTP/2 and TLS =3D> ubiquitous encryption 2) CDN extending into core and access networks =3D> many vulnerable platfor= ms that manage keys and certificates on behalf of original data owners and = service providers to maintain connection-based encryption This does not look very promising to me. We ought to figure object-based se= curity and fine-granular access control based on that. With virtualization extending to all parts of the network, it now becomes f= easible to prototype and evaluate such systems, e.g., as a slice in a virtu= alized mobile network. There is some interesting work going on, just a few pointers: http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p189-auge.pdf http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p137-schneider.pdf http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p177-yu.pdf Cheers, Dirk _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --_000_7C8481655210444483A4195DBE5C3507liveuclacuk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <473344A6793E3448A1896454AD854C9B@eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very interesting thoughts Dirk.

Another keyword is transport performance (related= to the transport encryption discussion): with heterogeneous access, and es= pecially with low-bitrate, unreliable secondary access, you want to have a = more powerful forwarding plane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that can empl= oy in-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mobile netwo= rk operators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP proxies an= d application-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryp= tion, see below).

A pointer on this is our recent work on In-Network Resource Pooling (i= n ACM HotNets 2014): http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~uceeips/files/inrpp-= hotnets14-ipsaras.pdf

According to this framework, in-network storage is utilised to tempora= rily store/cache data *mid-path* when some link along the path is broken or= very slow/congested. Then transmission resumes when conditions get back to= normal. It sounds like a good fit for low-bitrate, unreliable links.

Thanks,
Yiannis.

On 27 Nov 2015, at 08:51, Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu> wrote:

How would that best be progressed? I think there = are good ideas here (adding
delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to ge= t
those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff.

In Europe, review and have your say on what's happening here: https://5g-ppp.eu/

There is a second phase of projects in preparation -- that should ideally c= ater for topics like this, but people need to speak up.

Technically, I think that ICN as a concept has good potential as a network = infrastructure technology that can span both well-connected traditional typ= e of networks as well as less conventional ones, including uni-directional = and disruption-prone networks.

One of the keywords is access network heterogeneity, e.g., "hybrid acc= ess" in the current IP access world. It's obvious that TCP/IP (even MP= TCP) with DNS/CDN has issues in even the simple hybrid access home gateway = scenario.

Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that can employ in-network storage = for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mobile network operators are tryin= g to address some of these issues with TCP proxies and application-layer pr= oxies (the latter will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryption, see below).

Finally, security: I see two things happening:

1) HTTP/2 and TLS =3D> ubiquitous encryption
2) CDN extending into core and access networks =3D> many vulnerable plat= forms that manage keys and certificates on behalf of original data owners a= nd service providers to maintain connection-based encryption

This does not look very promising to me. We ought to figure object-based se= curity and fine-granular access control based on that.

With virtualization extending to all parts of the network, it now becomes f= easible to prototype and evaluate such systems, e.g., as a slice in a virtu= alized mobile network.

There is some interesting work going on, just a few pointers:

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p189-auge.= pdf

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p137-schneider.pdf=

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p177-yu.pdf


Cheers,
Dirk
_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia

--_000_7C8481655210444483A4195DBE5C3507liveuclacuk_-- From nobody Fri Nov 27 06:10:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A342F1A890E for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 06:10:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e5rc1ZofvBSt for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 06:10:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FC291A87E9 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 06:10:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91F010B16D; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:10:53 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXn86FAIk863; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:10:53 +0100 (CET) X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted X-ENC: Last-Hop-TLS-encrypted Received: from METHONE.office.hd (methone.office.hd [192.168.24.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C44D210B162; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:10:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.59]) by METHONE.office.hd ([192.168.24.54]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:10:43 +0100 From: Dirk Kutscher To: "Psaras, Ioannis" , Dirk Kutscher Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFfb9ql3UA6Y2kW/Y+IYnX/nxp6upkEAgAAcy46AADxwAIAAh9lwgABOC4CAABMF4A== Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B2DD5@PALLENE.office.hd> <7C848165-5210-4444-83A4-195DBE5C3507@live.ucl.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <7C848165-5210-4444-83A4-195DBE5C3507@live.ucl.ac.uk> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.7.0.208] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78PALLENEofficehd_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song , Jim Forster , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:10:58 -0000 --_000_82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78PALLENEofficehd_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Yiannis, This is actually interesting in a sense because it enables moving from the = traditional downstream (from cloud to consumer) paradigm to information sha= ring at the edge with a relatively simple enhancement. Dirk From: Psaras, Ioannis [mailto:i.psaras@ucl.ac.uk] Sent: Freitag, 27. November 2015 14:56 To: Dirk Kutscher Cc: Stephen Farrell; Jim Forster; gaia; Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Very interesting thoughts Dirk. Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that= can employ in-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mob= ile network operators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP p= roxies and application-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more = expensive in the future because of encryption, see below). A pointer on this is our recent work on In-Network Resource Pooling (in ACM= HotNets 2014): http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~uceeips/files/inrpp-hotnets14-ipsa= ras.pdf According to this framework, in-network storage is utilised to temporarily = store/cache data *mid-path* when some link along the path is broken or very= slow/congested. Then transmission resumes when conditions get back to norm= al. It sounds like a good fit for low-bitrate, unreliable links. Thanks, Yiannis. On 27 Nov 2015, at 08:51, Dirk Kutscher > wrote: How would that best be progressed? I think there are good ideas here (addin= g delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to ge= t those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff. In Europe, review and have your say on what's happening here: https://5g-pp= p.eu/ There is a second phase of projects in preparation -- that should ideally c= ater for topics like this, but people need to speak up. Technically, I think that ICN as a concept has good potential as a network = infrastructure technology that can span both well-connected traditional typ= e of networks as well as less conventional ones, including uni-directional = and disruption-prone networks. One of the keywords is access network heterogeneity, e.g., "hybrid access" = in the current IP access world. It's obvious that TCP/IP (even MPTCP) with = DNS/CDN has issues in even the simple hybrid access home gateway scenario. Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that= can employ in-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mob= ile network operators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP p= roxies and application-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more = expensive in the future because of encryption, see below). Finally, security: I see two things happening: 1) HTTP/2 and TLS =3D> ubiquitous encryption 2) CDN extending into core and access networks =3D> many vulnerable platfor= ms that manage keys and certificates on behalf of original data owners and = service providers to maintain connection-based encryption This does not look very promising to me. We ought to figure object-based se= curity and fine-granular access control based on that. With virtualization extending to all parts of the network, it now becomes f= easible to prototype and evaluate such systems, e.g., as a slice in a virtu= alized mobile network. There is some interesting work going on, just a few pointers: http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p189-auge.pdf http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p137-schneider.pdf http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p177-yu.pdf Cheers, Dirk _______________________________________________ gaia mailing list gaia@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia --_000_82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78PALLENEofficehd_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Yi= annis,

This is ac= tually interesting in a sense because it enables moving from the traditiona= l downstream (from cloud to consumer) paradigm to information sharing at the edge with a relatively simple enhancement.

 

Dirk<= /o:p>

 = ;

 = ;

From: Psaras, Ioannis [mailto:i.psaras@ucl.ac.uk]
Sent: Freitag, 27. November 2015 14:56
To: Dirk Kutscher
Cc: Stephen Farrell; Jim Forster; gaia; Steve Song
Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet?<= o:p>

 

Very interesting thoughts Dirk.

 

Another keyword is transport performance (related to= the transport encryption discussion): with heterogeneous access, and espec= ially with low-bitrate, unreliable secondary access, you want to have a mor= e powerful forwarding plane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that can employ i= n-network storage for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mobile network o= perators are trying to address some of these issues with TCP proxies and ap= plication-layer proxies (the latter will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryption, s= ee below).

 

A pointer on this is our recent work on In-Network R= esource Pooling (in ACM HotNets 2014): http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~uc= eeips/files/inrpp-hotnets14-ipsaras.pdf

 

According to this framework, in-network storage is u= tilised to temporarily store/cache data *mid-path* when some link along the= path is broken or very slow/congested. Then transmission resumes when cond= itions get back to normal. It sounds like a good fit for low-bitrate, unreliable links.

 

Thanks,

Yiannis.

 

On 27 Nov 2015, at 08:51, Dirk Kutscher <Dirk.Kutscher@neclab.eu> wrote:<= o:p>



How would that best be progressed? I think there are= good ideas here (adding
delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to ge= t
those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff.


In Europe, review and have your say on what's happening here: https://5g-ppp.eu/

There is a second phase of projects in preparation -- that should ideally c= ater for topics like this, but people need to speak up.

Technically, I think that ICN as a concept has good potential as a network = infrastructure technology that can span both well-connected traditional typ= e of networks as well as less conventional ones, including uni-directional = and disruption-prone networks.

One of the keywords is access network heterogeneity, e.g., "hybrid acc= ess" in the current IP access world. It's obvious that TCP/IP (even MP= TCP) with DNS/CDN has issues in even the simple hybrid access home gateway = scenario.

Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport encrypti= on discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with low-bitrate,= unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful forwarding p= lane that can react to changing link layer characteristics locally and that can employ in-network storage = for reacting to disruption/delay. Today, mobile network operators are tryin= g to address some of these issues with TCP proxies and application-layer pr= oxies (the latter will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryption, see below).

Finally, security: I see two things happening:

1) HTTP/2 and TLS =3D> ubiquitous encryption
2) CDN extending into core and access networks =3D> many vulnerable plat= forms that manage keys and certificates on behalf of original data owners a= nd service providers to maintain connection-based encryption

This does not look very promising to me. We ought to figure object-based se= curity and fine-granular access control based on that.

With virtualization extending to all parts of the network, it now becomes f= easible to prototype and evaluate such systems, e.g., as a slice in a virtu= alized mobile network.

There is some interesting work going on, just a few pointers:

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p189-auge.= pdf

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p137-= schneider.pdf

http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p177-yu.pdf<= /a>


Cheers,
Dirk
_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org= /mailman/listinfo/gaia

 

--_000_82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78PALLENEofficehd_-- From nobody Fri Nov 27 07:22:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D491B3514 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50uCxEyAWTKT for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6E4A1B3513 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfdl133 with SMTP id l133so132289360lfd.2 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2VQL89W/wOAyWguSQZhYpR6XUxYq6pVeVDSOULZrqRY=; b=C/lLwOi336577KkNRGaVXMoE1XFAhPfiTR7yNCMgIipHfv2Qx1ZgCNzlcz1er+795b rEgl/pwME3kXZJvNd0BdrdpDFJLU7W8mFdes0rEGLgune6PcX6ZMfECgp/2Nq5vYzzuu uh8yTsRjfxqW30mXX3JkKgd11ROEWOBgG8q0RqLkdeqJiPzNz2as+LxLuZ6KQc1Fjsr3 ccAk5Mwhht44ULvBdlsHU/t1hHoYggW2X2N6qsiU/ekVDHGTBh8SvBFtVHfK3oHI0lmI Nq0WwMWw89Jyk5PaXJ+2iF4luHjbANbV/GO6gn1Mlgv4xVZMYh+Ck2i1dmxvJ/e5zvzk LEuw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.39.19 with SMTP id n19mr16287707lfn.156.1448637740811; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.170.198 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:22:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <46EEEEA2-E848-4CB9-80D2-1761C40CDDC2@neclab.eu> <5657ADA0.1030209@cs.tcd.ie> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B2DD5@PALLENE.office.hd> <7C848165-5210-4444-83A4-195DBE5C3507@live.ucl.ac.uk> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A67B3D78@PALLENE.office.hd> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:22:20 +0200 Message-ID: From: David Johnson To: Dirk Kutscher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , "Psaras, Ioannis" , Steve Song , Jim Forster , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:22:25 -0000 This has also got me thinking about the parallel in the world of dynamic spectrum access. One of the concerns about TV white spaces that use spectrum databases is that they effectively give evil governments or anti-competitive operators a kill switch for TV white space devices they want to block. I think we should fight for regulation that reserves a UHF amateur radio survival channel that allows all dynamic spectrum access devices to continue operating at lower bit-rates using spread spectrum techniques that allow them to share the survival band. This can be for cases where no white space channels exist, the device can't access the spectrum database or an evil government has flicked the kill switch. This can also be used for negotiating full-access secondary user channels - this control data also requires very low data rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > Thanks, Yiannis, > > This is actually interesting in a sense because it enables moving from the > traditional downstream (from cloud to consumer) paradigm to information > sharing at the edge with a relatively simple enhancement. > > > > Dirk > > > > > > From: Psaras, Ioannis [mailto:i.psaras@ucl.ac.uk] > Sent: Freitag, 27. November 2015 14:56 > To: Dirk Kutscher > Cc: Stephen Farrell; Jim Forster; gaia; Steve Song > Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? > > > > Very interesting thoughts Dirk. > > > > Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport > encryption discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with > low-bitrate, unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful > forwarding plane that can react to changing link layer characteristics > locally and that can employ in-network storage for reacting to > disruption/delay. Today, mobile network operators are trying to address some > of these issues with TCP proxies and application-layer proxies (the latter > will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryption, see > below). > > > > A pointer on this is our recent work on In-Network Resource Pooling (in ACM > HotNets 2014): > http://www.ee.ucl.ac.uk/~uceeips/files/inrpp-hotnets14-ipsaras.pdf > > > > According to this framework, in-network storage is utilised to temporarily > store/cache data *mid-path* when some link along the path is broken or very > slow/congested. Then transmission resumes when conditions get back to > normal. It sounds like a good fit for low-bitrate, unreliable links. > > > > Thanks, > > Yiannis. > > > > On 27 Nov 2015, at 08:51, Dirk Kutscher wrote: > > > > How would that best be progressed? I think there are good ideas here (adding > delay-tolerant features to mainstream protocols) but I'm not sure how to get > those ingrained in e.g. 5g stuff. > > > In Europe, review and have your say on what's happening here: > https://5g-ppp.eu/ > > There is a second phase of projects in preparation -- that should ideally > cater for topics like this, but people need to speak up. > > Technically, I think that ICN as a concept has good potential as a network > infrastructure technology that can span both well-connected traditional type > of networks as well as less conventional ones, including uni-directional and > disruption-prone networks. > > One of the keywords is access network heterogeneity, e.g., "hybrid access" > in the current IP access world. It's obvious that TCP/IP (even MPTCP) with > DNS/CDN has issues in even the simple hybrid access home gateway scenario. > > Another keyword is transport performance (related to the transport > encryption discussion): with heterogeneous access, and especially with > low-bitrate, unreliable secondary access, you want to have a more powerful > forwarding plane that can react to changing link layer characteristics > locally and that can employ in-network storage for reacting to > disruption/delay. Today, mobile network operators are trying to address some > of these issues with TCP proxies and application-layer proxies (the latter > will probably become more expensive in the future because of encryption, see > below). > > Finally, security: I see two things happening: > > 1) HTTP/2 and TLS => ubiquitous encryption > 2) CDN extending into core and access networks => many vulnerable platforms > that manage keys and certificates on behalf of original data owners and > service providers to maintain connection-based encryption > > This does not look very promising to me. We ought to figure object-based > security and fine-granular access control based on that. > > With virtualization extending to all parts of the network, it now becomes > feasible to prototype and evaluate such systems, e.g., as a slice in a > virtualized mobile network. > > There is some interesting work going on, just a few pointers: > > http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p189-auge.pdf > > http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p137-schneider.pdf > > http://conferences2.sigcomm.org/acm-icn/2015/proceedings/p177-yu.pdf > > > Cheers, > Dirk > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > From nobody Fri Nov 27 08:46:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0821B3660 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ub_06JCcHVU for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEB261B365E for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by lfaz4 with SMTP id z4so135168886lfa.0 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=+XrVIQL5XrbyKSsqVt8fweKvottAwb6z7D/iHEz3X5s=; b=hz+Q2JTWW7JAmr1mWXSgYUss7gdmMgtFWA7KaKy08XLg5CMKbVHjMv3VDV/BiPXsDH tSBWPer/R+kSdYQQY232I/y9F2wIQWXS9vrt9SheCgQJE8vWk2uQ6Qgs93bfRBJCzVom rUWdxf5LL2iYAUVhzfgZsBt7BAPqdnc7mybXjVMnVttE2FW2uI0PiCExT1rgRXMFfvOb zuJ8sLuvwlOp3TGK9tXtvfgufQWZ0ChHVnjzEVLKruDBQXY9ZXWzvErdLYN/sZ2KNc1Z 61w+5Cbln7cHundcBcthXYDeUVoeRH2cyXXY84KT5pK9dIbBeS9EWk2cSkfT3tdXaiRx ycXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.137.132 with SMTP id qi4mr11561530lbb.120.1448642802893; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:42 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:46:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:46:42 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: S_ox_KnxXYeaUTcj5j7Se9LJURA Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: gaia Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01182954ac4d3f0525886f12 Archived-At: Subject: [gaia] GAIA workshop X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:46:46 -0000 --089e01182954ac4d3f0525886f12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 All we now have a full house for the GAIA workshop. Just a note we have journalists coming over to cover the workshop and if anyone presenting has any issues, please let me know asap. regards --089e01182954ac4d3f0525886f12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All
=C2=A0 we now have a full house for the GAIA workshop. Just a note we have = journalists coming over to cover the workshop and if anyone presenting has = any issues, please let me know asap.

regards

--089e01182954ac4d3f0525886f12-- From nobody Fri Nov 27 17:37:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC631B2ECB for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mv9JdzmRZcIf for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x22b.google.com (mail-ig0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 128DB1B2EC8 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by igvg19 with SMTP id g19so40019075igv.1 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pczAbFZ+L9yed9F1KL2M0BgzYpi+Xm1dXDNskvVwwHk=; b=vhBwjYUNgivD2Qs5ziOlXdQJFVV7rAcnBI0Et0ZKdT4UAOWWReJbegiin+9o6imR7/ oTcuDEPkIgomEdBJ+t9C8Xdxa/D2IteDzYiNElziPLpHkhHTGIDSW5nbGRzTjxi7Royd dL+1369ePwHdPBhrpOIZ+R8sqvNFIhGvCtCEJ1ht5RJbJfE8rXcJfBAby89MIbrUFHty uKK+vjF6ZOOIt1FtqX6viT8af6B/7940qdeww/XAi/2BcBw8eAGkmd6dFQc/QMHwggex nSGafJGAfSI6ByCxYSpUJR9x+FjOTqU4QTOGvHluVOBQ5TN1tNneL8rZH3zQwrlp5YwK t7iA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.70.102 with SMTP id l6mr11275726igu.90.1448674649404; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.107.12.80 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:37:29 -0800 Message-ID: From: Rohan Mahy To: Steve Song Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a953edf7d6d05258fd9c2 Archived-At: Cc: gaia Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 01:37:32 -0000 --047d7b3a953edf7d6d05258fd9c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Steve, You did a nice job of explaining this model that I=E2=80=99ve also been qui= etly promoting. I have two comments: 1) I think backhaul is a serious limiting factor here in some remote areas. If the nearest tower is serviced by satellite or any of the slowish configurations of terrestrial microwave, paying customers might already be getting less than full 2G. That was certainly the case in some of the places I lived. I think it is reasonable to offer 2G for free when 3G is in place (or 2G with a high-speed terrestrial wireless or fiber backhaul). This would also make it obvious to users and regulators which locations need backhaul upgrades. 2) The approach of bandwidth limiting instead of volume limiting is both more valuable for the end user (a little bit of data every day is worth more than one big burst at the beginning of the month) and easier to implement for the mobile network operator (when a free Internet user roams the infrastructure does not need to keep track of total usage). Thanks, -rohan On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Steve Song wrote: > Hi all, > > Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear > relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and > reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and > thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of > mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a > low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit > everyone. > > https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ > > Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). > > Thanks... Steve Song > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --047d7b3a953edf7d6d05258fd9c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Steve,

You did a nice job of explaining this model that I=E2=80=99ve also bee= n quietly promoting.=C2=A0 I have two comments:


1) I think backhaul is a serious limiting factor here in some remote a= reas. If the nearest tower is serviced by satellite or any of the slowish c= onfigurations of terrestrial microwave, paying customers might already be g= etting less than full 2G. That was certainly the case in some of the places= I lived. I think it is reasonable to offer 2G for free when 3G is in place= (or 2G with a high-speed terrestrial wireless or fiber backhaul). This wou= ld also make it obvious to users and regulators which locations need backha= ul upgrades.


2) The approach of bandwidth limiting instead of volume limiting is bo= th more valuable for the end user (a little bit of data every day is worth = more than one big burst at the beginning of the month) and easier to implem= ent for the mobile network operator (when a free Internet user roams the in= frastructure does not need to keep track of total usage).


Thanks,

-rohan



On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Steve Song <stevesong= @nsrc.org> wrote:
Hi all,

Following on some of the previous discu= ssion about the non-linear relationship between Internet speed and value to= the consumer; and reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at = the IGF; and thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramati= c growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion = that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit = everyone.


Would love to have = the idea critiqued (gently).

Thanks... Steve Song<= /div>

_______________________________________________
gaia mailing list
gaia@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia


--047d7b3a953edf7d6d05258fd9c2-- From nobody Sat Nov 28 02:48:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E876C1ACD53 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 02:48:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_18=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZLQOK67JZiBk for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 02:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sideburn.lancs.ac.uk (sideburn.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.17.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB1E1ACD52 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 02:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ex-0-ht0.lancs.ac.uk ([10.42.18.47] helo=EX-0-HT0.lancs.local) by sideburn.lancs.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1a2d3N-0005ms-TF; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:48:29 +0000 Received: from EX-1-MB0.lancs.local ([fe80::f083:6530:dfd5:ebc7]) by EX-0-HT0.lancs.local ([fe80::7d10:114a:53b0:7f2f%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:48:29 +0000 From: "El Khatib, Yehia (elkhatib)" To: Steve Song , gaia Thread-Topic: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? Thread-Index: AQHRKFfXCDNUwBjhaEqrt3/s5/3vzJ6utwUAgABcVACAALO5gIABfNuA Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:48:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-originating-ip: [146.90.37.208] x-iss-local-domain: 1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D27F34E6EC05yelkhatiblancasteracuk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:48:39 -0000 --_000_D27F34E6EC05yelkhatiblancasteracuk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TmljZSBpZGVhLCBTdGV2ZS4NCg0KVGhlIHNlbGVjdGl2aXR5IGlzIHNsb3dseSBiZWNvbWluZyBp biB0aGUgaGFuZCBvZiB0aGUgY29uc3VtZXIsIGFzIHdpdGggbmV3ZXIgQW5kcm9pZCB2ZXJzaW9u cyBsaWtlIHlvdSBtZW50aW9uZWQuDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIsIG1vc3Qgc2VydmljZXMgKHJlYWQ6IG1h am9yaXR5IG9mIGNsb3VkLWhvc3RlZCBzZXJ2aWNlcykgYXJlIGRldmVsb3BlZCB3aXRoIGFuIGFz c3VtcHRpb24gb2Ygb3ZlciBwcm92aXNpb25lZCBuZXR3b3Jrcy4gVGhpcyByZXN1bHRzIGluICJj aGF0dHkgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gc3luZHJvbWXigJ0sIGFuZCBiZWNvbWVzIHZlcnkgYXBwYXJlbnQg d2hlbiB5b3UgdGFrZSBzYWlkIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCB0cnkgdG8gcnVuIGl0IG92ZXIgYSBw b29yIG5ldHdvcmsuIFNvIG15IHBvaW50IGlzLCBkZXZlbG9wZXJzIGNvdWxkIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBz 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwGsGWzRH1rV for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADA6B1B2AAC for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:38:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by lffu14 with SMTP id u14so157676836lff.1 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:38:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qJtt8Gv7ah/YUj9TrvyXQ23vXTh0xCC588hBBunrBx0=; b=WkfVC8JQSJzgAlCR12/7eN0DmgHSfOZALq735GPGhJ/6FWpi+CaZcvDOKADWukZbSC xlDjGrqMewK2m6PLmiTJniQtigTDDu6c2bzaowGsi11YJ7D7ew0E0cLbuiJmnqVLC/ak nh+u4OLQIr9shYNjsiwL2NAdFWLleGPK566eshJ7I7oQ7lfWxsb957rKv8EovHtq8FHJ RsxzwrzfiP2/ZWAV2kxthE4Pk47ujilNU6Dxw4VU2/kWuSVXvfZSPflL2Gx6yDn05y/p f5Zg9jRXwKCremldr3gzTToZ4aaqu+3DcMbwhmHqJ7lMawYzuafF6JAyq8MM7b3V1nQQ tnoQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.81.13 with SMTP id f13mr24685737lfb.126.1448735891780; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:38:11 -0800 (PST) Sender: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com Received: by 10.114.2.97 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Nov 2015 10:38:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:38:11 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eA0wTi3XIjYc3YqNkSEqUBUkl3Y Message-ID: From: Arjuna Sathiaseelan To: "El Khatib, Yehia (elkhatib)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11405b0633fa5705259e1c80 Archived-At: Cc: gaia , Steve Song Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 18:38:17 -0000 --001a11405b0633fa5705259e1c80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exactly -- if getting to the Internet is tough - just get the Internet to you :) https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/docs/p15-sathiaseelan.pdf https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/docs/EGC15.pdf Regards On 28 November 2015 at 10:48, El Khatib, Yehia (elkhatib) < y.elkhatib@lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > Nice idea, Steve. > > The selectivity is slowly becoming in the hand of the consumer, as with > newer Android versions like you mentioned. > > However, most services (read: majority of cloud-hosted services) are > developed with an assumption of over provisioned networks. This results i= n > "chatty application syndrome=E2=80=9D, and becomes very apparent when you= take said > application and try to run it over a poor network. So my point is, > developers could and perhaps should equip their services for deployment i= n > poor network conditions. I wrote a short piece about this earlier in the > year: http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/~elkhatib/Docs/2015.11_ccis.pdf > > /Yehia > > -- > Dr. Yehia Elkhatib > School of Computing & Communications > Lancaster University, LA1 4WA, UK > y.elkhatib lancaster.ac.uk > http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/~elkhatib > > > From: gaia on behalf of Steve Song < > stevesong@nsrc.org> > Date: Friday, 27 November 2015 12:05 > To: gaia > Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all phones were always on the Internet? > > Hi Arjuna, > > It is already possible, on Android, to turn off background data updates > and to do per-app tuning of background updates and data consumption in > general. What I would imagine is that when a phone runs out of data and > finds itself in basic rate mode, then it would only update apps/services > that have been actively selected by the user e.g. whatsapp, twitter, > signal, telegram, FB messenger, email, browser, etc. The selectivity abou= t > apps and services would then be in the hands of the consumer not the > provider. > > Cheers... Steve > > > On 26 November 2015 at 21:22, Arjuna Sathiaseelan < > arjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > >> Very nice Jim. >> >> One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access could be there i= s >> quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly consume the >> usage caps? >> >> As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to know what can >> we browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as steve mentione= d >> earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing that but >> 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transport protoco= ls >> work? >> >> Regards >> On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, "Jim Forster" wrote: >> >>> Steve, >>> >>> I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! >>> >>> AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot >>> systems. One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and >>> Garwhal district of Uttrakhand. Facebook/Internet.org >>> did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the >>> access points on our backbone in that district and manages the sales >>> agents. See this NY Time article >>> for >>> more info. It is intended that this system will use their Free Basics >>> system to give free access to certain sites. >>> >>> The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple >>> AirJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity >>> features. JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi= =E2=80=99s >>> network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand. JaldiFi does n= ot >>> use Free Basics; instead we simply give registered users 10-20MB/day fr= ee >>> service. Registration is free and automated (users must supply a mobil= e >>> phone number & then we send them a username/pw). It=E2=80=99s obvious = but worth >>> noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 = users don=E2=80=99t impact >>> the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the service is priced= affordably, >>> enough people will pay to make it worth our while. Pricing is about >>> Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25. Kumaon area >>> prices are here . >>> >>> Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently. For about 300Ksh, users >>> get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have that = much money, >>> they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh. Mawingu doesn=E2=80= =99t give them >>> completely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of >>> customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for us; email & web browsing is ea= sily >>> accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video watching eats up the MBs quickly. >>> The heaviest users will find then that their speed slowed way down, to >>> about 128kbps. That=E2=80=99s fine for email & tolerable for web brows= ing so >>> they=E2=80=99re not cut off, but if they want more high speed for video= , they=E2=80=99ll >>> need to pay some more. >>> >>> US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! >>> >>> >>> =E2=80=94 Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear >>> relationship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and >>> reflecting on some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and >>> thinking further about the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth = of >>> mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the conclusion that a >>> low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones would benefit >>> everyone. >>> >>> https://manypossibilities.net/2015/11/zero-rating-a-modest-proposal/ >>> >>> Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently). >>> >>> Thanks... Steve Song >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gaia mailing list >>> gaia@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia >>> >>> > > > -- > +1 902 529 0046 > stevesong@nsrc.org > http://nsrc.org > > > _______________________________________________ > gaia mailing list > gaia@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia > > --=20 Arjuna Sathiaseelan Personal: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/ N4D Lab: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/n4d --001a11405b0633fa5705259e1c80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly -- if getting to the Internet is tough - just get = the Internet to you :)

On 28 November 2015 at 10:48, E= l Khatib, Yehia (elkhatib) <y.elkhatib@lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:
Nice idea, Steve.

The selectivity is slowly becoming in the hand of the consumer, as wit= h newer Android versions like you mentioned.

However, most services (read: majority of cloud-hosted services) are d= eveloped with an assumption of over provisioned networks. This results in &= quot;chatty application syndrome=E2=80=9D, and becomes very apparent when y= ou take said application and try to run it over a poor network. So my point is, developers could and perhaps should equip = their services for deployment in poor network conditions. I wrote a short p= iece about this earlier in the year:=C2=A0http://www.comp.la= ncs.ac.uk/~elkhatib/Docs/2015.11_ccis.pdf=C2=A0

/Yehia

--=C2=A0
Dr. Yehia Elkhatib
School of Computing & Communications
Lancaster University, LA1 4WA, UK
y.elkhatib <then add> lancaster.ac.uk


From: gaia <gaia-bounces@irtf.org> on beh= alf of Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org>
Date: Friday, 27 November 2015 12:0= 5
To: gaia <gaia@irtf.org>

Subject: Re: [gaia] What if all pho= nes were always on the Internet?

Hi Arjuna,

It is already possible, on Android, to turn off background data update= s and to do per-app tuning of background updates and data consumption in ge= neral.=C2=A0 What I would imagine is that when a phone runs out of data and= finds itself in basic rate mode, then it would only update apps/services that have been actively selected by the= user e.g. whatsapp, twitter, signal, telegram, FB messenger, email, browse= r, etc. The selectivity about apps and services would then be in the hands = of the consumer not the provider.

Cheers... Steve


On 26 November 2015 at 21:22, Arjuna Sathiaseela= n <a= rjuna.sathiaseelan@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Very nice Jim.

One problem of giving specific low usage caps in access coul= d be there is quite a lot of mobile apps background traffic which randomly = consume the usage caps?

As i pointed out earlier it will be really interesting to kn= ow what can we browse/do with today's apps/services over 9.6 kbps..as s= teve mentioned earlier this requires redesigning apps/content - FB is doing= that but 9.6kbps is really pushing the limit? how would today's transport protocols work?

Regards

On 26 Nov 2015 19:51, "Jim Forster" <jrforster@mac.com> wrote:
Steve,

I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea! =C2=A0

AirJaldi has been recently offering two different pre-paid hot spot sy= stems.=C2=A0 One, called XWF (Express WiFi) is offered in Rishikesh and Gar= whal district of Uttrakhand.=C2=A0 Facebook/Internet.org=C2=A0did the software for XWF; AirJaldi deployed the access points on our backbone in that distr= ict and manages the sales agents.=C2=A0 See this=C2=A0NY Time article=C2=A0for more info.=C2=A0 It is intended that this system will use their Free Basic= s system to give free access to certain sites.

The second pre-paid service AirJaldi has is called JaldiFi. A couple A= irJaldi engineers did the software, using various Mikrotik & Ubiquity f= eatures.=C2=A0 JaldiFi is deploying in various places throughout AirJaldi= =E2=80=99s network, including Kangra Valley, Kumaon, and Jharkand.=C2=A0 JaldiFi does not use Free Basics; instead we simply gi= ve registered users 10-20MB/day free service.=C2=A0 Registration is free an= d automated (users must supply a mobile phone number & then we send the= m a username/pw).=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s obvious but worth noting that 10MB is 1/100th of 1GB, so a lot of =E2=80=98free=E2=80=99 users don= =E2=80=99t impact the network much. It=E2=80=99s our belief that if the ser= vice is priced affordably, enough people will pay to make it worth our whil= e.=C2=A0 Pricing is about Rs80/GB (~$1.25/GB), with some plans for as little Rs25.=C2=A0 Kumaon area prices are=C2=A0here. =C2=A0

Mawingu in Kenya does it a little differently.=C2=A0 For about 300Ksh,= users get high speed service for a month, or if they don=E2=80=99t have th= at much money, they can buy a week=E2=80=99s service for 100Ksh.=C2=A0 Mawi= ngu doesn=E2=80=99t give them completely unlimited service, but we find that the great majority of customers don=E2=80=99t use too much for u= s; email & web browsing is easily accommodated, but heavy YouTube/video= watching eats up the MBs quickly.=C2=A0 The heaviest users will find then = that their speed slowed way down, to about 128kbps.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s fine for email & tolerable for web browsing so they=E2= =80=99re not cut off, but if they want more high speed for video, they=E2= =80=99ll need to pay some more.

US-centric salutation: Happy Thanksgiving everyone!=C2=A0


=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Jim



On Nov 26, 2015, at 6:36 AM, Steve Song <stevesong@nsrc.org> wrote:

Hi all,

Following on some of the previous discussion about the non-linear rela= tionship between Internet speed and value to the consumer; and reflecting o= n some of the discussions on zero-rating at the IGF; and thinking further a= bout the PAYG model that enabled the dramatic growth of mobile telephony in emerging markets, I came to the= conclusion that a low-bitrate, always-on Internet for all mobile phones wo= uld benefit everyone.


Would love to have the idea critiqued (gently).

Thanks... Steve Song


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https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia




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