From nobody Thu Oct 3 11:04:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1D11200EC for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:04:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.124 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.124 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.973, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2sbDotf-YLLG for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 267B91200E6 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 11:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id 717F57C0B69; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 20:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ADAD7C0A4B for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 20:04:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6duENVKzC4b for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 20:03:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=2620:0:2d0:201::1:71; helo=pechora1.lax.icann.org; envelope-from=doug@ewellic.org; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from pechora1.lax.icann.org (pechora1.icann.org [IPv6:2620:0:2d0:201::1:71]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F3207C08A1 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 20:03:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from p3plwbeout03-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp03-06-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.218.218]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora1.lax.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9515F1E0977 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2019 18:03:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from p3plgemwbe03-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([72.167.218.134]) by :WBEOUT: with SMTP id G5R5iz0hc5kdfG5R5ieHc2; Thu, 03 Oct 2019 11:02:43 -0700 X-SID: G5R5iz0hc5kdf Received: (qmail 17354 invoked by uid 99); 3 Oct 2019 18:02:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 208.51.143.189 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 6.10.1 Message-Id: <20191003110241.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.e9b26ba1f9.wbe@email03.godaddy.com> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "noni gopal" , "ietf-languages" Cc: "Registrar ISO639-3" Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2019 11:02:41 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora1.lax.icann.org [192.0.33.71]); Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:03:34 +0000 (UTC) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfH4nMYyo2L+VeenjV2SvvEHqQhNbBwjluF55SjHo602yPc82aZuRmXq24W1Uwsjw2dm+Ea1xHqdUasQMoKWUya9nFYE1sg3XM3G0giPxpaDqtdVu+DS0 2ZP1SFLFBSHK6R5dQe93LGFIYGLhDnXdzQOhi7CBy2Jcbdy3Fo2Un/7BRDI2c5K8FGOem0w8YmtxxbVC9eQlgzu/fe1d1JfXq60= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] [Contact Us] Setting English alphabet to writing the language ISO 639; bpy (Bishnupriya Manipuri) now it's in 639:ben (Bengali) alphabet X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:04:45 -0000
Hello Noni,
  
As I understand your d= escription, this is simply the 26-letter English alphabet, with Bengali let= ters used in place of Latin letters for the vowels (plus Y).
 
Privately invented orthographies such as this are= not generally assigned BCP 47 variant subtags. You would need to make a ca= se that this orthography is already in use, to the point where a BCP 47 tag= is needed to help distinguish Bishnupriya Manipuri content in this orthogr= aphy from content in "bpy-Beng" or "bpy-Latn".
 
W= e would need actual evidence of usage as part of a subtag request. A pointe= r to unspecified Facebook posts is unlikely to be helpful.
 =  
Best regards,
 
--
= Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org
 

=
=0A
=0A
=0A----= ---- Original Message --------
=0ASubject: Re: [Contact Us] Setting Engl= ish alphabet to writing the
=0Alanguage ISO 639;bpy (Bishnupriya Manipur= i) now it's in 639:ben
=0A(Bengali) alphabet
=0AFrom: Registrar ISO63= 9-3 <iso639-3@sil.org>
=0A= Date: Thu, October 03, 2019 11:11 am
=0ATo: noni gopal <nonigopal24@gmail.com>
=0ACc: Doug Ew= ell <doug@ewellic.org>
=0A=
=0A
Dear Sir,

If you want= to register a variant alphabet for [bpy], you can do so with the IETF/IANA= group. The contact person is Mr. Doug Ewell. He can send you the forms and= help you through the process.

Melinda Lyons
=
ISO 639-3 RA
SIL International
7500 W. Camp Wisdom= Rd.
Dallas, TX 75236

<= div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:02 AM <nonigopal24@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Noni Gopal Singha (nonigopal24@gmail.com) s= ent a message using the contact
form at https://iso639-3.sil.org= /contact.

Sir,
Most of our new age youth are reading throu= gh English medium.
They do not know Bengali alphabet.
   = But the   Wikipedia has recognized Bengali alphabet to writing th= is 639:bpy
language.
So,
it's essential to include English alph= abet in Wikipedia to writing bpy
language along with Bengali alphabet.<= br> I have invented a formula to writing any language within English alphab= et.
And I want to include it in our bpy language.
   See = below :-
Main alphabet : =E0=A6=86 b c d =E0=A6=8F f g h =E0=A6=87 j k = l m n =E0=A6=93 p q r s t =E0=A6=89 v w x =E0=A7=9F
z ( pronunciation o= f vowel are change into Bengali or Hindi or Sanskrit )
In English forma= t : a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z. (no
change; bu= t pronouncing of vowels are rewin into Indic vowels )
I have named it a= s "Indo-English Alphabet".
In my observation i found that this alphabet=   can drow the real vocabulary of
any language of the world.
S= o it can say as Supe Alphabet or Universal Alphabet.
All our people are= used to it. They are writing in Facebook; you can follow
their.
&n= bsp;      Thanks for your any response.
    &n= bsp;   I am in a Teaching professional.
       = ; B.A. Passed.
Noni Gopal Singha.
North Tripura.
India.
Pin= -799253.

=0A
=0A
From nobody Sun Oct 20 13:05:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A505412007A for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:05:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kGxC6_PP1GjH for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B40A112006B for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id 1673B7C48AD; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:05:12 +0200 (CEST) Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62357C4493 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:05:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ipLI7LGSRfs4 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:05:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: delayed 00:06:15 by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=192.0.33.72; helo=pechora2.lax.icann.org; envelope-from=doug@ewellic.org; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from pechora2.lax.icann.org (pechora2.icann.org [192.0.33.72]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AF4A7C416A for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:05:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from p3plsmtpa08-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa08-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.193.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora2.lax.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C86381E0238 for ; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 19:58:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DESKTOPLPOB1E4 ([73.229.14.229]) by :SMTPAUTH: with ESMTPSA id MHLIiNL8KPDynMHLKiVvyl; Sun, 20 Oct 2019 12:58:23 -0700 From: "Doug Ewell" To: , Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 13:58:20 -0600 Message-ID: <000a01d58780$ba8faf40$2faf0dc0$@ewellic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdWHgLRt4SnOs92qTamhjLgwNc9ytA== Content-Language: en-us X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora2.lax.icann.org [192.0.33.72]); Sun, 20 Oct 2019 19:58:44 +0000 (UTC) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfO50soWO1Hu1ZobuYTD7vkNhQYTU1W3P6RLO9YaPkbxhWBJkFvWbhxAf0Dw4aNIj4WyUnvauMo4dwZp41iwRP0IBVk8qfX+ofAM0zY7/kWJ343Ey6Ec3 orvgPTWq/4p+jIiM8txBRSZ2YW7R1qRQztcomtoK6g2u4+ZRwTYG1ZUZsxY7G/gCJLJ/Dyn2+gZEJH0APOm3hfcp/QCu43w+nMY= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Interpreting t-h0- mechanism X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 20:05:17 -0000 Mark Davis wrote on the CLDR list: >> I work occasionally with documents in Eonaviego which would best be >> coded as ast-t-gl-h0-hybrid, but then when translated to-from (which >> there are quite a few to/from Asturian or Spanish), there would be no >> valid encoding, so being able to represent a hybrid language as a >> source/destination of a transform is not a pure hypothetical for me. > > The hybrids were originally designed for cases like Hinglish or > Denglish, where there are large numbers of borrowings of words from a > different language. Eonaviego sounds like set of dialects on the > continuum between Asturian and Galician. That is, it doesn't appear to > be Asturian with a batch of loan words from Galician. It sounds like the best course of action might be to investigate adding = a BCP 47 variant, rather than trying to shoehorn this dialectical = situation into the T extension. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician-Asturian -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org From nobody Wed Oct 30 05:47:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83BF12010C for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:05:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.265 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, SPOOFED_FREEMAIL=1.999] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URkfPmGefcem for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE7DD120104 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id 5A91B7C356F; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:04:57 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F91A7C350A for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:04:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cf9jonJh2dKz for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:04:49 +0100 (CET) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=192.0.33.71; helo=pechora1.lax.icann.org; envelope-from=roux.elie@gmail.com; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from pechora1.lax.icann.org (pechora1.icann.org [192.0.33.71]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EF5E7C3CFD for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:00:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail-io1-f47.google.com (mail-io1-f47.google.com [209.85.166.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora1.lax.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 741011E022A for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 11:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-f47.google.com with SMTP id h9so2027379ioh.2 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:00:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=26UpuoChapK0S6oqkFCJbHWH8cwh8BAqQsK5QQu7NuI=; b=Wkrwf5h/x9e+FlAwNmTkKRmPPMfyOeJ0lrPNqZ0g1uJI4D3KDN82yqSpmfsP3hpVLg PnkSZjd0rC/vVMDQLQ7bJ2nhQYLPXVo4GSM2LtD63EI2Q6ojG/Ig5xJGPbEOyDZGQAPp baFbTbVP3PRwUNkHxcy1qd7yfcFQhDZo53d07DVuxwhNDRkv8b/V8qW0kZWx1bTSi+yM wJDKVQreaqqbCMnNm7GoqtJ/fVcJZlb0BWC5BpR9mcXPYXa2cR+mvng32BnqSam3hFPG oBhXzzEk17/nNMdE1JBSx4BbbKPb1b3uYHmDLPO35SmRcdbotO4hSEY9iTOntEP5V4WH AWVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWuUt7/Uva+x73yw2Mmmx3o6Y1Q+OHkh3BWrzhnDuzB7dxBCeLT xTNzkA2o69icKIFStwpDC468iZ3W2Bgwoz/N4jMQbeEG5D8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw+3g05m6OZsKtaNtsMPzZCquvzNSUL5cMnT+1GQUrzTTKyYUd6v3TleZZyFFOxjm62Bj5M0as8iRI2+w88oEE= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:fa03:: with SMTP id p3mr5438657ioh.44.1572433229257; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 04:00:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=89lie_Roux?= Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:00:18 +0100 Message-ID: To: IETF Languages Discussion Cc: Chris Tomlinson Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 05:47:52 -0700 Subject: [Ietf-languages] Khmer orthographic reform X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 11:05:02 -0000 Dear all, I have some data in Khmer that I need to use two tags for: - one for Khmer as written before the orthographic reforms of the XXth c. - one for Khmer written according to said reforms The situation has been explained to me as follows: """ The reform is not exactly clear cut, unfortunately. Let me see if I can find any sources. We don't know much about pre-20th-century reforms; this is an area that needs more research. But a reform process had begun by the early 20th century, and it culminated in the compilation of the first comprehensive Khmer-Khmer dictionary, under the editorship of Juon =E1=B9=86=C4=81t (Chuon Nath) and others. The first = edition was published by the Institut Bouddhique in 1938. Although there were some additional spelling reforms in the 1960s and 1980s, still most users of the language today still refer to the fifth edition of the Institut Bouddhique dictionary, printed in 1966. Manuscripts produced after the 1920s or so may show reformed orthographies, but old spelling systems remained in place in some manuscript traditions for several more decades, particularly when copying directly from older texts. Books printed after the 1920s almost never have pre-reform orthography (19th century books and dictionaries do, however). Many Cambodians today have never encountered a pre-reform orthography text, though it is not hard for them to learn to read it. """ What is IANA policy with regards to this kind of situation? Is it reasonable for me to propose a "-pre1966" or "-pre20c" subtag for the strings that use the old orthography? Best, --=20 Elie From nobody Wed Oct 30 17:25:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2924B12022C for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:25:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ntlworld.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dg3WPE1cxdD6 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net (know-smtprelay-omc-6.server.virginmedia.net [80.0.253.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2AC9120018 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2019 17:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JRWUBU2 ([82.4.11.47]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id PyGui7O8z5GlNPyGuiz3A0; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 00:25:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [82.4.11.47] X-Authenticated-User: X-Spam: 0 X-Authority: v=2.3 cv=frbymmwf c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=yrOAJgItaIMndimPI+pDLQ==:117 a=yrOAJgItaIMndimPI+pDLQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=8390bBgGAAAA:8 a=IxFLyuZUAAAA:8 a=ZpnIj9rRAAAA:8 a=17rJItsl5FcP3bsfAdwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=ONfENc2Xldf9O1kC1nT1:22 a=rp6CNfvUyW0OTBmOTiB_:22 a=RELIQkRzTb6Ho8CLp0UT:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ntlworld.com; s=meg.feb2017; t=1572481504; bh=8Ly63L3lRjpgS6WsDhWDKEQs7BBvhBu4EGcFLlViH64=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=gyC8DjRPjt7qG5t7wqZFFA6IAhKb9LoteTkYM8br8LfK3jSBErbcPLhXd+gteC2n/ 4ZATPhbp66kjqjM0PRJYfB4K6N+MzE6MZAaPNuUMtB2R9/+LIdWp0h4tQoeQRAokg6 BEylWUQFUAmsgaqWJ3uGlpLo+jpld0weZuM7V30JUBgDXkGb+i6KgziSncBqH/Wpp7 ghM/3TJ7tG+vq86SLQ7ImU4hTjuw47Wj8WCljoOndXjdVroC483iSZsIGZEYZxIXyz aOu7vFcJInDQvNkMW19HVboADMwVtt3uOwBCzWQS/uYxGzoKbBZfsuE5ThWqXNDzez uii/OvRorKJOg== Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 00:25:03 +0000 From: Richard Wordingham To: ietf-languages@ietf.org Message-ID: <20191031002503.17a667d0@JRWUBU2> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.13.2 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfP0eck4jGWFK92lw4V8CTxVPxMiu8QIPxcmze7IuG0oPNNQX3opRyaePnVx3pajUtm7gacHApKtcrBrklSyIffLgunNA1N4NwDDdf1fADCZh/tzagOV3 7SzgpuC8QuLnLW+3BsiwuL7OP/aiBJnTtTwHXf4wLNuz5fREEBzGMwDQ Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Khmer orthographic reform X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 00:25:10 -0000 On Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:00:18 +0100 =C3=89lie Roux wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > I have some data in Khmer that I need to use two tags for: > - one for Khmer as written before the orthographic reforms of the > XXth c. > - one for Khmer written according to said reforms >=20 > The situation has been explained to me as follows: >=20 > """ > The reform is not exactly clear cut, unfortunately. Let me see if I > can find any sources. One generally available resource, very interesting but very limited, is Michel Antelme's article =E2=80=98Inventaire provisoire des charact=C3=A8res et divers si=C9=A1nes des =C3=A9critures khm=C3=A8res pr= =C3=A9-modernes et modernes employ=C3=A9s pour la notation du khmer, du siaois et du p=C4=81li=E2=80=99 - http://aefek.free.fr/iso_album/antelme_bis.pdf https://www.aefek.fr/wa_files/antelme04.pdf . We may need a new control sequence or character for the old writing of what he transliterates as _kantora_, a word for 'mouse'. (We definitely need a few more graphical characters.) =46rom p20, it would seems that a key boundary may be the abandonment of subscript consonants for CVC clusters.=20 Richard. From nobody Thu Oct 31 15:18:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf-languages@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0584C120825 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:18:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1_VNX_0aCuD0 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1002120090 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) id EF9CF7C3A47; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:18:19 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49F47C3A3F for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:18:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g2kURntYRACo for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:18:16 +0100 (CET) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 X-Comment: SPF skipped for whitelisted relay - client-ip=192.0.33.71; helo=pechora1.lax.icann.org; envelope-from=doug@ewellic.org; receiver=ietf-languages@alvestrand.no Received: from pechora1.lax.icann.org (pechora1.icann.org [192.0.33.71]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BBB27C39D5 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 23:18:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from p3plwbeout03-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtp03-02-2.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.218.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora1.lax.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5AD21E04C8 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:18:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from p3plgemwbe03-01.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([72.167.218.129]) by :WBEOUT: with SMTP id QIkriuRE0nKJcQIkriAn5A; Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:17:21 -0700 X-SID: QIkriuRE0nKJc Received: (qmail 136923 invoked by uid 99); 31 Oct 2019 22:17:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Originating-IP: 208.51.143.189 User-Agent: Workspace Webmail 6.10.4 Message-Id: <20191031151719.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.38c22bee93.wbe@email03.godaddy.com> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=89lie=5FRoux?=" , "IETF Languages Discussion" Cc: "Chris Tomlinson" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 15:17:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora1.lax.icann.org [192.0.33.71]); Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:18:11 +0000 (UTC) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfA3LKD+nQSCN4QekMYUAYGqCrUGkP/LBezfrv74ofB8J9673iB5juvuJybm5KkGNkIZu7rWtX3s/zUpMXVH0x9CcnpqBmcF/yh48RwIbpYGi7JglwcXP P3VFWel/ZWlBO2/OAQE/N+YihgO5cMrJ3RdE5NmbZkg+w14EQa2rRpi8LV+twizQab1ikh5qoZKPj/yx+zrTPHWCRXWliwVRthQ= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Khmer orthographic reform X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 22:18:23 -0000 =C3=89lie Roux wrote:=0A=0A> I have some data in Khmer that I need to use t= wo tags for:=0A> - one for Khmer as written before the orthographic reforms= of the XXth=0A> c.=0A> - one for Khmer written according to said reforms= =0A=0AThis is a good starting point. At least you have established that the= =0Aworks need to be tagged distinctly (as opposed to "we need to=0Adistingu= ish these varieties," which is not always a reason for tagging).=0A=0AIt ma= y not be clear that two subtags are needed, if the current=0Aorthography is= overwhelmingly dominant and can be assumed, but that=0Adiscussion can come= later.=0A=0A> The reform is not exactly clear cut, unfortunately. Let me s= ee if I=0A> can find any sources.=0A=0AYou'll certainly want to find a refe= rence that explains and describes=0Athe reform. The ones Richard supplied m= ay help. It's not mandatory that=0Aall contemporary writers switched to the= new orthography simultaneously=0Aor uniformly; that certainly wasn't the c= ase for, say, '1606nict'.=0A=0A> What is IANA policy with regards to this k= ind of situation? Is it=0A> reasonable for me to propose a "-pre1966" or "-= pre20c" subtag for the=0A> strings that use the old orthography?=0A=0AIt's = not "IANA policy," but rather ietf-languages practice. IANA merely=0Aserves= as the repository for the Registry.=0A=0AIt's certainly reasonable to requ= est one or two variant subtags (see=0Aabove). Check the available reference= s.=0A=0AThe subtag values themselves probably won't be any sort of abbrevia= tion=0Afor "pre-20th century" or the like. Such a subtag could theoreticall= y=0Aapply to dozens or hundreds of languages, with a different meaning for= =0Aeach; and although the Prefix field is supposed to suggest the languages= =0Afor which the subtag is considered suitable, concerns are usually voiced= =0Athat this is not sufficient to discourage inappropriate use.=0A=0A--=0AD= oug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org=0A =0A