From nobody Wed Nov 1 09:42:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77DD613F7CE for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:42:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PSwMPtWKJFyK for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vesa.cs.pub.ro (vesa.cs.pub.ro [141.85.227.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EA613F7E5 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 09:42:32 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AnPFFZRDmWJyYug6G2ZA8UyQJP3N1i/DPJgcQr6Af?= =?us-ascii?q?oPdwSPT6oMbcNUDSrc9gkEXOFd2CrakV26yO6+jJYi8p2d65qncMcZhBBVcuqP?= =?us-ascii?q?49uEgeOvODElDxN/XwbiY3T4xoXV5h+GynYwAOQJ6tL1LdrWev4jEMBx7xKRR6?= =?us-ascii?q?JvjvGo7Vks+7y/2+94fdbghMhzexe69+IAmrpgjNq8cahpdvJLwswRXTuHtIfO?= =?us-ascii?q?pWxWJsJV2Nmhv3+9m98p1+/SlOovwt78FPX7n0cKQ+VrxYES8pM3sp683xtBnM?= =?us-ascii?q?VhWA630BWWgLiBVIAgzF7BbnXpfttybxq+Rw1DWGMcDwULs5Xymp4aV2Rx/ykC?= =?us-ascii?q?oJKjA5/n/XhMJzgqxUrh2uqB5jzIPPeo6ZKOBzc7nBcd4UR2dMWNtaWSxbAoO7?= =?us-ascii?q?aosCF+UOPeJCoIbgplsOqBq+BROxD+32zj9ImmH50rc80+Q8DArL2xIgH9YUv3?= =?us-ascii?q?vJrdX1MaYSUfqvwKnPyTXDc+1Z1i376IjVaR0uveqMUahoccrM0kYjDRnFjlKJ?= =?us-ascii?q?pIHjIjib2OMNs22B4OphU+Kik28npB9tojih3MssjZPJho0Tx1vZ9it52J44Kc?= =?us-ascii?q?C3RUJme9KpE5tduzuEO4doQM4uWW9ltD4nxrAJpJK3ZisHxZQ9yxLBZfGKfZKE?= =?us-ascii?q?7g/sWeqPJzpzmWhrd6ilhxmo9Eit0uj8Vs6p31lUtidFidzMtmwV1xzU98iHVu?= =?us-ascii?q?Nx/ke/1jaL0ADe8v9EIUUumqraL54t2KI/loEJvUTbAy/5g1/6jLWRdkk8++io?= =?us-ascii?q?7froYqn+q5OBOIJ4lxvyP6cul8ClH+g0LAoDU3KV9Oik0b3s50z5QLFEjv0sla?= =?us-ascii?q?nZtYjXJdofpqGjHgBV04Mj6xelDzu819QYmWUHI0xfdxKBkojkIE3BIOviAfen?= =?us-ascii?q?nlSjiy1nx+rBPrH5GJXCMmDDkKv9fbZ680NSywwzzcxG651OELEOPuj8V1TwtN?= =?us-ascii?q?PGEh85PRa4w+H9CNVyhcsiXjfFI6mFdarIvFag5+8zLa+LfoBf8GLcLeRg7uTj?= =?us-ascii?q?hFc4lEMTO66z0s1ERmq/G6FYJ0yVYH/tmJ8mFXsHtwwjBLj0jFSOUDtSfTC1W7?= =?us-ascii?q?4x7zcmIIm9S5/eTMa3h+rSj2+AApRKazUeWRi3GnDyetDcVg=3D=3D?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BCAgCr+PlZjAPjVY1dHAEFAQsBGAEFA?= =?us-ascii?q?QsBhBkDayeDfYofdI96JpZEghEvhRYChT8YAQEBAQEBAQEBAQESAQEBJkwLgjg?= =?us-ascii?q?igkMBBiNUEhwDAQIrAgJNAggGDQYCAQGKIwyoU4InJopnAQEIAiaDLoNaghILg?= =?us-ascii?q?naDPoE9NoJ1gmEFkVyQLoIwhTaPK16FI4NghzqMYIpqAh83Q4EqNCFZgw4JgmO?= =?us-ascii?q?BdXUBjRABAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2BCAgCr+PlZjAPjVY1dHAEFAQsBGAEFAQsBhBkDayeDfYo?= =?us-ascii?q?fdI96JpZEghEvhRYChT8YAQEBAQEBAQEBAQESAQEBJkwLgjgigkMBBiNUEhwDA?= =?us-ascii?q?QIrAgJNAggGDQYCAQGKIwyoU4InJopnAQEIAiaDLoNaghILgnaDPoE9NoJ1gmE?= =?us-ascii?q?FkVyQLoIwhTaPK16FI4NghzqMYIpqAh83Q4EqNCFZgw4JgmOBdXUBjRABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,329,1505768400"; d="scan'208,217";a="2127704" Received: from mail.cs.pub.ro (HELO vmail.cs.pub.ro) ([141.85.227.3]) by vesa.cs.pub.ro with ESMTP; 01 Nov 2017 18:42:30 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE3F1A60154 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:42:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (vmail.cs.pub.ro [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id lGRY5YVStYOb for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:42:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from vmail.cs.pub.ro (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DEFF1A6015F for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:42:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from [172.19.2.230] (unknown [141.85.233.142]) by vmail.cs.pub.ro (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14B7A1A60154 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:42:28 +0200 (EET) References: <150940524713.28214.4803456674821834999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Int-area@ietf.org" From: Vladimir Olteanu X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <150940524713.28214.4803456674821834999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:42:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150940524713.28214.4803456674821834999.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5730467175052249351D5F4E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 16:42:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5730467175052249351D5F4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We've updated out SOCKS 6 draft. Most notably, version -01 adds a mechanism that mitigates replay attacks when running over TLS1.3. (Cheers to Christian Huitema for bringing up the issue at IETF99!) Best, Vlad -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:14:07 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Vladimir Olteanu , Dragos Niculescu A new version of I-D, draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Vladimir Olteanu and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6 Revision: 01 Title: SOCKS Protocol Version 6 Document date: 2017-10-30 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 18 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01 Abstract: The SOCKS protocol is used primarily to proxy TCP connections to arbitrary destinations via the use of a proxy server. Under the latest version of the protocol (version 5), it takes 2 RTTs (or 3, if authentication is used) before data can flow between the client and the server. This memo proposes SOCKS version 6, which reduces the number of RTTs used, takes full advantage of TCP Fast Open, and adds support for 0-RTT authentication. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------5730467175052249351D5F4E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

We've updated out SOCKS 6 draft. Most notably, version -01 adds a mechanism that mitigates replay attacks when running over TLS1.3. (Cheers to Christian Huitema for bringing up the issue at IETF99!)

Best,
Vlad


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:14:07 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Vladimir Olteanu <vladimir.olteanu@cs.pub.ro>, Dragos Niculescu <dragos.niculescu@cs.pub.ro>


A new version of I-D, draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Vladimir Olteanu and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6
Revision:	01
Title:		SOCKS Protocol Version 6
Document date:	2017-10-30
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		18
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-olteanu-intarea-socks-6-01

Abstract:
   The SOCKS protocol is used primarily to proxy TCP connections to
   arbitrary destinations via the use of a proxy server.  Under the
   latest version of the protocol (version 5), it takes 2 RTTs (or 3, if
   authentication is used) before data can flow between the client and
   the server.

   This memo proposes SOCKS version 6, which reduces the number of RTTs
   used, takes full advantage of TCP Fast Open, and adds support for
   0-RTT authentication.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--------------5730467175052249351D5F4E-- From nobody Thu Nov 2 11:33:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376E613F80F; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 11:33:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sigfoxgroup.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msPXwhSNC2Pr; Thu, 2 Nov 2017 11:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr50097.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.5.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A761B13F808; 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boundary="_000_DB5PR08MB0808D6E95711DF572D965E21895C0DB5PR08MB0808eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: sigfox.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9566d160-9dfc-4360-2f8f-08d52220428c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Nov 2017 18:33:49.2011 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: fcbc8bb1-061e-4b94-9f70-3ad917b0c8d3 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5PR08MB0805 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 18:33:56 -0000 --_000_DB5PR08MB0808D6E95711DF572D965E21895C0DB5PR08MB0808eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, The call for interest is now finished. We have not seen support to continue= the discussion in the IntArea nor we have seen interest in creating an IET= F mailing list. Hence, we respectfully request the authors to abandon any further discussio= n about the draft and the proposed solution from the IntArea mailing list. Best regards, Juan Carlos, Wassim & Suresh IntArea WG Chairs + AD From: Juan Carlos Zuniga Sent: October 4, 2017 11:08 PM To: int-area@ietf.org Cc: 'Wassim Haddad' ; Suresh Krishnan ; intarea-chairs Subject: Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) Dear all, The IntArea mailing list has been repeatedly used to debate draft-omar-ipv1= 0. So far, comments posted on the mailing list have consistently pointed to= wards a highly controversial topic on multiple levels. This includes the la= ck of a valid problem statement as well as a clear and persistent disconnec= t between the suggested proposal in draft-omar-ipv10 and the current market= trends, deployments and available solutions. The IntArea AD and WG chairs are not satisfied with the nature and tone of = the current exchange on the IntArea ML, nor enthusiastic about its potentia= l prospect within the IntArea WG. However, the IntArea AD and WG chairs would like to encourage pursuing the = discussion outside the IntArea WG if there is sufficient interest in the to= pic, e.g., on a separate mailing list. For this purpose, we would like to g= auge the community interest to work on the problem statement and proposal d= escribed in draft-omar-IPv10 (possibly to be renamed IPmix). If you are interested in participating in the work mentioned above, please = respond to this mail expressing your support by October 17, 2017. Regards, Juan Carlos, Wassim and Suresh IntArea WG Chairs + AD --_000_DB5PR08MB0808D6E95711DF572D965E21895C0DB5PR08MB0808eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

 

The call for interest is now finished. We have not s= een support to continue the discussion in the IntArea nor we have seen inte= rest in creating an IETF mailing list.

 

Hence, we respectfully request the authors to abando= n any further discussion about the draft and the proposed solution from the= IntArea mailing list.

 

Best regards,

 

Juan Carlos, Wassim & Suresh

IntArea WG Chairs + AD

 

 

From: Juan Carlos Zuniga
Sent: October 4, 2017 11:08 PM
To: int-area@ietf.org
Cc: 'Wassim Haddad' <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com>; Suresh Krish= nan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>; intarea-chairs <intarea-chairs@ie= tf.org>
Subject: Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10)

 

Dear all,

 

The IntArea mailing list has been repeatedly used to= debate draft-omar-ipv10. So far, comments posted on the mailing list have = consistently pointed towards a highly controversial topic on multiple level= s. This includes the lack of a valid problem statement as well as a clear and persistent disconnect between the= suggested proposal in draft-omar-ipv10 and the current market trends, depl= oyments and available solutions.

 

The IntArea AD and WG chairs are not satisfied with = the nature and tone of the current exchange on the IntArea ML, nor enthusia= stic about its potential prospect within the IntArea WG.

 

However, the IntArea AD and WG chairs would like to = encourage pursuing the discussion outside the IntArea WG if there is suffic= ient interest in the topic, e.g., on a separate mailing list. For this purp= ose, we would like to gauge the community interest to work on the problem statement and proposal described in draft-= omar-IPv10 (possibly to be renamed IPmix).

 

If you are interested in participating in the work m= entioned above, please respond to this mail expressing your support by Octo= ber 17, 2017.

 

Regards,

 

Juan Carlos, Wassim and Suresh

IntArea WG Chairs + AD

 

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13:16:38.7506 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT131 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2017 13:16:44 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241A49643086A0D06DF5859BD5D0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCkRvZXMgdGhpcyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IElQdjEwIHdpbGwgbm90IGJlIHByZXNlbnRlZCBh dCBpZXRmIDEwMD8NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpLaGFsZWQgT21hcg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0t IE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIENhbGwg Zm9yIHN1cHBvcnQ6IElQbWl4IEktRCAod2FzIElQdjEwKQ0KRnJvbTogSnVhbiBDYXJsb3MgWnVu 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c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=waNJslEeIHmbMkksRo0Aoa32CoxHV8DOd3iW4WCvPsc=; b=dK/1/+f+kYzA1J9KuxrgjJlTbNT5+zLafv0g9pSgvbntJFYoQ8gKrII1QHQeuSKImN 25RPZTBqiEgHZG4YorafJ6kHMqIMU3vl/vriMs5v2e0T3fuibfKThRizA6WM384l688N Q21UfAPWph5Ut0kzqnDoEg6FrX4iWsSC092wjThUDXPogSjyuHAyLt74SsXuP2WWHvgb c6i95P37cUVcdFp+VgNe1TsMf/D9mTA7GaxYgkgA12vqkXIIEVVaxtUsFGvfF5GBRobB 4qwCD86Nn7/KVzBStbTkCxAQgyv8p9aS7vbBGCLzCYUN5hxm6Sn/u4Op0KLgE0mXnQYi 4zDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=waNJslEeIHmbMkksRo0Aoa32CoxHV8DOd3iW4WCvPsc=; b=Ev/zNRcuWbLLg8uoN+jwl3BPmTNfNo5qfm59foUY/QedLDs5s2o22uEEnzSnXeBq4L 70zn++cmhX4B8cEwsY1qc+asAZdq9AUDgz/GSQi3AZbqdWt3B4u1ElnNMD18laP9PuoD wmkkX4nfOa5B0/8ronXFy7Ci42NY8vCoL9xeHWz+vUDU/pLt/LFtxFG/KWkic62l5CsW 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Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 12:09:12 -0000 --001a11443d3a59e099055d4f52f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, 2017-10-31 17:45 GMT+01:00 Ron Bonica : > Hi Jean-Michel, > > > > The semantic of this utility is to probe exactly one interface at a time. > If multiple interfaces satisfy query=E2=80=99s match conditions, Probe ca= n=E2=80=99t > provide a response. > > > > I agree that Probe could set the A bit if all of the interfaces are > active. But what should it do if one interface is active and the other is > not? > > Your opinion differs from my opinion because, IMHO, yours is mainly based on the "probed interface resides on the probed node" (i.e., it is possible to identify some interfaces are active and some not) and mine is mainly based on the "probed interface doesn't reside on the probed node" (i.e., ARP/NC allows only to identify active interfaces). Correct? Best regards, JMC. > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > Question: > > Why the A-bit is not set when Code Field is equal to Multiple Interface= s > > Satisfy Query (3) and the L-bit is clear? Question: Same question when > L-bit is > > set. > > > > > > > [RB ] > > Error code 3 (Multiple Interfaces Satisfy Query) means that they query is > ambiguous. Or, on other words, that two or more interfaces satisfy the > match conditions specified by the query. So, we can't set the A, F, S or = E > bits because we don't know which interface the user is asking about. > > > > > > But, even if this is ambiguous, IMHO, all the interfaces are active =3D> > A-bit should be set > > And Error Code 3 returned to probing interface raises this is ambiguous. > Now, I am OK that F, S and E should be cleared to avoid any confusion > between the different interfaces. > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > JMC. > --001a11443d3a59e099055d4f52f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,


2017-10-31 17:45 GMT+01:00 Ron Bonica &l= t;rbonica@juniper.= net>:

Hi Jean-Michel,=

=C2=A0

The semantic of= this utility is to probe exactly one interface at a time. If multiple inte= rfaces satisfy query=E2=80=99s match conditions, Probe can=E2=80=99t provid= e a response.

=C2=A0

I agree that Pr= obe could set the A bit if all of the interfaces are active. But what shoul= d it do if one interface is active and the other is not?


=
<JMC>

Your opinion= differs from my opinion because, IMHO, yours is mainly based on the "= ;probed interface resides on the probed node" (i.e., it is possible to= identify some interfaces are active and some not) and mine is mainly based= on the "probed interface doesn't reside on the probed node" = (i.e., ARP/NC allows only to identify active interfaces).
Correct?

Best re= gards,

JMC.

</JMC>
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

>
> <JMC>
> Question:
> Why the A-bit is not set when Code Field is equal to Multiple Interfac= es
> Satisfy Query (3) and the L-bit is clear? Question: Same question when= L-bit is
> set. </JMC>
>
> <snip>
>
[RB ]

Error code 3 (Multiple Interfaces Satisfy Query) means that they query is a= mbiguous. Or, on other words, that two or more interfaces satisfy the match= conditions specified by the query. So, we can't set the A, F, S or E b= its because we don't know which interface the user is asking about.

=C2=A0

<JMC>

But, even if this is ambiguous, IMHO, all the interf= aces are active =3D> A-bit should be set

And Error Code 3 returned to probing interface raise= s this is ambiguous.
Now, I am OK that F, S and E should be cleared to avoid any confusion betwe= en the different interfaces.

=C2=A0

Did I miss something?

</JMC>

<snip>

=C2=A0

Best regards,=

JMC.


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header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6RfdIxyZ6Yq4 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 08:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 289111287A0 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 08:55:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id y80so11758043wmd.0 for ; Wed, 08 Nov 2017 08:55:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WIoxZTrhCI1shbUyFtSECyjH+56xO0FXy8cV4oML5XE=; b=ezRGfIobuYqxbCCTvQe/A/LVSRa4m+/09Xw/jS3zsQckVMm4635ezl7R/8eLGuc/7q bpdqPzHP/vv8Vqd4hbnQC5rfIH8IQjcJAlebXfk9cu0FDK08cEN8W0WKFSmuiG6GlpQk 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AGs4zMYAeRUutQTrMDEhAc2ov9seyTod6BERWPnQ7tiAWcLNTGn0hA6OnxduJp2LNLQ5Te1sai1bntSOL9vUvx3l0yQ= X-Received: by 10.28.0.65 with SMTP id 62mr1016312wma.58.1510160109580; Wed, 08 Nov 2017 08:55:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.31.134 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 08:55:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Jean-Michel Combes Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:55:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d7a2ee2be9b055d7b8c89" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-00 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 16:55:13 -0000 --001a113d7a2ee2be9b055d7b8c89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ron, OK. I understand your point. Best regards, JMC. 2017-11-06 19:49 GMT+01:00 Ron Bonica : > Jean-Michel, > > > > I understand that Probe addresses two operational needs. One need is to > probe the local node and the other is to probe a directly connected node. > But in either case, Probe semantics must be consistent. > > > > Probe queries the status of exactly one interface. Regardless of whether > the L-bit is set or clear, if two interface satisfy the Extended Echo > Request Match criteria, the Extended Echo Reply must return an error code > (3). Returning any information beyond that would be risky. For example, > assume that both interfaces are active, one is running IPv4 only and the > other is running IPv6 only? What would the Extended Echo Reply return? > > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Jean-Michel Combes [mailto:jeanmichel.combes@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, November 6, 2017 7:09 AM > *To:* Ron Bonica > *Cc:* int-area@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] Intdir early review of > draft-ietf-intarea-probe-00 > > > > Hi Ron, > > > > 2017-10-31 17:45 GMT+01:00 Ron Bonica : > > Hi Jean-Michel, > > > > The semantic of this utility is to probe exactly one interface at a time. > If multiple interfaces satisfy query=E2=80=99s match conditions, Probe ca= n=E2=80=99t > provide a response. > > > > I agree that Probe could set the A bit if all of the interfaces are > active. But what should it do if one interface is active and the other is > not? > > > > > > > > Your opinion differs from my opinion because, IMHO, yours is mainly based > on the "probed interface resides on the probed node" (i.e., it is possibl= e > to identify some interfaces are active and some not) and mine is mainly > based on the "probed interface doesn't reside on the probed node" (i.e., > ARP/NC allows only to identify active interfaces). > > Correct? > > Best regards, > > JMC. > > > > > > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > > Question: > > Why the A-bit is not set when Code Field is equal to Multiple Interface= s > > Satisfy Query (3) and the L-bit is clear? Question: Same question when > L-bit is > > set. > > > > > > > [RB ] > > Error code 3 (Multiple Interfaces Satisfy Query) means that they query is > ambiguous. Or, on other words, that two or more interfaces satisfy the > match conditions specified by the query. So, we can't set the A, F, S or = E > bits because we don't know which interface the user is asking about. > > > > > > But, even if this is ambiguous, IMHO, all the interfaces are active =3D> > A-bit should be set > > And Error Code 3 returned to probing interface raises this is ambiguous. > Now, I am OK that F, S and E should be cleared to avoid any confusion > between the different interfaces. > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > JMC. > > > --001a113d7a2ee2be9b055d7b8c89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ron,

OK. I understand your = point.

Best regards,

JMC.

2017-11-06 19:49 GMT+01:00 Ron = Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>:

Jean-Michel,

=C2=A0

I understand that Probe addresses two= operational needs. One need is to probe the local node and the other is to= probe a directly connected node. But in either case, Probe semantics must be consistent.

=C2=A0

Probe queries the status of exactly o= ne interface. Regardless of whether the L-bit is set or clear, if two inter= face satisfy the Extended Echo Request Match criteria, the Extended Echo Reply must return an error code (3). Returning any infor= mation beyond that would be risky. For example, assume that both interfaces= are active, one is running IPv4 only and the other is running IPv6 only? W= hat would the Extended Echo Reply return?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Ron<= /span>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Jean-Michel Combes [mailto:jeanmichel.co= mbes@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 7:09 AM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: int-area@= ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-intarea-pr= obe-00

=C2=A0

Hi Ron,=

=C2=A0

2017-10-31 17:45 GMT+01:00 Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>:=

Hi Jean-Michel,=

=C2=A0

The semantic of this u= tility is to probe exactly one interface at a time. If multiple interfaces = satisfy query=E2=80=99s match conditions, Probe can=E2=80=99t provide a response.

=C2=A0

I agree that Probe cou= ld set the A bit if all of the interfaces are active. But what should it do= if one interface is active and the other is not?

=C2=A0

<JMC>

=C2=A0

Your opinion differs from my opinion because, IMHO, = yours is mainly based on the "probed interface resides on the probed n= ode" (i.e., it is possible to identify some interfaces are active and = some not) and mine is mainly based on the "probed interface doesn't reside on the probed node" (i.e., ARP/NC allows= only to identify active interfaces).

Correct?

Best regards,<= u>

JMC.

=C2=A0

</JMC>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Ron

=C2=A0

>
> <JMC>
> Question:
> Why the A-bit is not set when Code Field is equal to Multiple Interfac= es
> Satisfy Query (3) and the L-bit is clear? Question: Same question when= L-bit is
> set. </JMC>
>
> <snip>
>
[RB ]

Error code 3 (Multiple Interfaces Satisfy Query) means that they query is a= mbiguous. Or, on other words, that two or more interfaces satisfy the match= conditions specified by the query. So, we can't set the A, F, S or E b= its because we don't know which interface the user is asking about.

=C2=A0

<JMC>

But, even if this is ambiguous, IMHO, all the interf= aces are active =3D> A-bit should be set

And Error Code 3 returned to probing interface raise= s this is ambiguous.
Now, I am OK that F, S and E should be cleared to avoid any confusion betwe= en the different interfaces.

=C2=A0

Did I miss something?

</JMC>

<snip>

=C2=A0

Best regards,<= u>

JMC.

=C2=A0


--001a113d7a2ee2be9b055d7b8c89-- From nobody Wed Nov 8 17:38:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50262126DED for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:38:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8NCMKmWMGHeW for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27873124B18 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2017 17:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DSF99627; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 01:38:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 01:38:20 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.198]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 09:38:07 +0800 From: Xiajinwei To: "int-area@ietf.org" CC: "daniel@olddog.co.uk" , Zongning Thread-Topic: Latency Critical Communication Thread-Index: AdNY+2R/Va8N8zf/Sce6AQkpFFl/NA== Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 01:38:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.79.49] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.5A03B18C.0172, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.198, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 06db48f6c9f56d0b60c3dd4d8aa3f08a Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Latency Critical Communication X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2017 01:38:24 -0000 Hi All, We recently posted an I-D that discusses architectural considerations for d= elivering latency critical communication over the Internet. Our objective i= s to see if there is interest in coordinating discussion on the topic of la= tency sensitive applications across Internet infrastructure for emerging ap= plications (including 5G, IoT, M2M).=20 The draft identifies common service requirements, potential solutions and g= aps, and areas for further development, rather than being published as RFC. The I-D is provided below: Architectural Considerations for Delivering Late= ncy Critical Communication over the Internet https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xia-latency-critical-communication-00 Please reviewing it at your convenient time and show your comments. I am very appreciated in advance :-) Thanks! Jinwei From nobody Thu Nov 9 01:34:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A906F12F24E for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 01:34:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7sfKASQFAGBF for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 01:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1CD412ECED for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 01:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id vA99YrWJ178763 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:34:53 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 393EA204EE5 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:34:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115A0204EF2 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:34:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from [132.166.84.233] ([132.166.84.233]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id vA99Yott005984 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:34:52 +0100 To: int-area@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 10:34:50 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Next Generation Internet (was Re: Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10)) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2017 09:34:59 -0000 In the past we have seen many times discussions of what can be related to a "Next Generation Internet" proposal. In Europe there are opportunities to build project proposals in this space. ngi.eu Alex Le 04/11/2017 à 12:01, Khaled Omar a écrit : > Thanks, > > Khaled Omar > > *From:* Juan Carlos Zuniga [mailto:juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com] > *Sent:* Friday, November 3, 2017 8:19 PM > *To:* Khaled Omar > *Cc:* int-area > *Subject:* RE: [Int-area] Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) > > Hello, > > Indeed, the IntArea group has decided not to further discuss this draft. > > Regards, > > Juan Carlos > > *From:*Khaled Omar [mailto:eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com] > *Sent:* November 3, 2017 9:17 AM > *To:* Juan Carlos Zuniga > > *Cc:* int-area > > *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) > > Hi, > > Does this means that IPv10 will not be presented at ietf 100? > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) > From: Juan Carlos Zuniga > To: int-area@ietf.org > CC: intarea-chairs > > Hello, > > The call for interest is now finished. We have not seen support to > continue the discussion in the IntArea nor we have seen interest in > creating an IETF mailing list. > > Hence, we respectfully request the authors to abandon any further > discussion about the draft and the proposed solution from the > IntArea mailing list. > > Best regards, > > Juan Carlos, Wassim & Suresh > > IntArea WG Chairs + AD > > *From:*Juan Carlos Zuniga > *Sent:* October 4, 2017 11:08 PM > *To:* int-area@ietf.org > *Cc:* 'Wassim Haddad' >; Suresh Krishnan > >; > intarea-chairs > > *Subject:* Call for support: IPmix I-D (was IPv10) > > Dear all, > > The IntArea mailing list has been repeatedly used to debate > draft-omar-ipv10. So far, comments posted on the mailing list have > consistently pointed towards a highly controversial topic on > multiple levels. This includes the lack of a valid problem statement > as well as a clear and persistent disconnect between the suggested > proposal in draft-omar-ipv10 and the current market trends, > deployments and available solutions. > > The IntArea AD and WG chairs are not satisfied with the nature and > tone of the current exchange on the IntArea ML, nor enthusiastic > about its potential prospect within the IntArea WG. > > However, the IntArea AD and WG chairs would like to encourage > pursuing the discussion outside the IntArea WG if there is > sufficient interest in the topic, e.g., on a separate mailing list. > For this purpose, we would like to gauge the community interest to > work on the problem statement and proposal described in > draft-omar-IPv10 (possibly to be renamed IPmix). > > If you are interested in participating in the work mentioned above, > please respond to this mail expressing your support by October 17, 2017. > > Regards, > > Juan Carlos, Wassim and Suresh > > IntArea WG Chairs + AD > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Tue Nov 14 18:38:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEABB127010; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:37:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ztDqckcc1Pls; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E71271201F2; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 18:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mb.local ([IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:78fa:30c8:8d1d:2a52]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAF2blHs039040 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:37:49 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host [IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:78fa:30c8:8d1d:2a52] claimed to be mb.local From: joel jaeggli To: draft-mcbride-mboned-wifi-mcast-problem-statement@ietf.org, draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802@ietf.org, Internet Area , "mboned@ietf.org" Message-ID: <8140d9e4-b322-7f39-a37c-a96ab7283ffe@bogus.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:36:59 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/56.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] review of draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802-03 draft-mcbride-mboned-wifi-mcast-problem-statement-01 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 02:38:00 -0000 Greetings, I have chosen to review both of these documents at this time as they appear to me to be attempts to address the same problem space from the vantage point of slightly different but overlapping communities (evidenced by the authors) both of which have a vested interest in IP multicast operation on ieee 802.xx wireless networks. This review is seperated into the observations common to both followed by (limited) commentary on each document. While both documents address the challenges of arp / ND and aperiodic multicast transmission, draft-mcbride-mboned-wifi-mcast-problem-statement-01 has more focus on application use of multicast above and beyond basic subnet/adjacency/resource discovery applications. draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802-03 takes a more technical and nuanced look at the underlying 802.xx implementation of multicast/broadcast packet transmission. It is oddly specific in some areas to experiences gleaned from the IETF network, which while it may be a product of our experience, is by no means a unique environment, and these challenges are to a great degree common or in fact worse in other wireless environments (where there might be more low powered devices, less spectrum or radio coordination, a diversity of management domains and so on. it's not clear to me from the outset what the audience for an eventually published document might be. Advice to implementors? Feedback to the IEEE? Operational advice? Go from problem statment towards work on conclusions? draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802-03 is the slightly more mature document of the two, I don't think that there is much justification for advancing both given that they have fairly high overlap without being complimentary, so I would encourage consolidation and coordination between the int interests and those of the mbone/multicast community towards something that is more than the union of the two. >From my vantage-point the best outcome is one where the IETF provides advice to vendors (becaue there are implementation specific tweaks and optimation that can make many situations better) an the IEEE that results in the employment of multicast being less disruptive and costly and potentially to devices on wireless lans. work on ietf protocols associated with arp/nd resource discovery to make them generally less costly on the wire and more sensitive to power / cpu usage is a desirable property as well pariticularly of there are situations where they can be avoided entirely (for example not having to defend addresses via DAD because of something like https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host-13). Some comments specific to each document - draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802-03 - 3.1.2. Lower Data Rate this rate might be as low as 6 Mbps, when some unicast links in the same cell can be operating at rates up to 600 Mbps. In fact backward compatibility and multi-stream implementations mean that the maximum unicast rates are currently up to a few Gb/s so there can be a more than 3 order of magnitude difference in the transmission rate from the basic rates to optimal unicast forwarding. some techinues employed to increase spectral efficiency such a spatial multiplexing in mimo systems are literally unavailable with more then one intended reciever so it's not simply the case that nominal transmission rates available are limited by backwards compatibility. 3.2.2. IPv6 issues Respecting some of the cost of multicast on wireless networks these are not strictly wireless problems reductions in the amount of signaling required is better for the control-planes of routers, and for all hosts ultimately, whether that is unicast RAs, prefix per host, or simply rate limits on layer 2 learning e.g. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6583 problems. 3.2.4 and 3.2.2 therefore are very much problems that extend beyond the wireless domain. Specifically with 3.2.4 the arp problem also applies to ND, in both cases non-standard counter-measures (arp sponging unlearned entries as in 5.1 for v4) various forms of off-net vs on-net driven ND suppression. On a wired network, there is not a huge difference amongst unicast, multicast and broadcast traffic; Inadvertent flooded traffic or high amounts of ethernet multicast on wired networks can be quite a bit less costly due to nic filtering, then in cases where devices have to wake up effectively to process packets. also the fact that these networks tend to be switched futher reduces impact (there is effectively no collision / scheduling problem until you get to extremely high port utilization) 4.3 not clear how this directly impacts multicast / except that a unicast optimization ight seperately send to different STAs at different times. optimization around long DTIM intervals to allow clients to sleep longer clearly has impacts on performance, convergence time and how uch needs to be sent which the device wakes up. 4.6 DMS is not currently implemented in products. work on and review of DMS http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7969670/?reload=true http://eprints.networks.imdea.org/524/1/video_v01.pdf 5.1 barely deals with ipv6, even though the problems are essntially the same. - draft-mcbride-mboned-wifi-mcast-problem-statement-01 - 1. And many end devices are increasingly using wifi for their connectivity. it's not really that this is a new and increasing alternative to wired connectivity. there's no serious or common alternative to wirless 802.x network usage. One of the primary problems multicast over wifi faces is that link local 802.11 doesn't necessarily support multicast, it supports broadcast. This is a possibly necessarily simplification, there are not naturally great mechanisms within a common collision domain to limit reciever membership so even the ability to limit membersship to recievers that are part of the reciept naturally makes the air interface unavailable for a time. 4. Apple's Bonjour protocol, for instance, provides service discovery (for printing) mdns service discovery covers a great deal of (and increasing number) of diverse services. most of them are more or less invisible to users, e.g. they're not aware that they re using a service discovering mechanism, or that autonomous deivces are using them irespective of user input. From nobody Tue Nov 14 22:52:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFA11274D0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6yM6Gck2U_U for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22b.google.com (mail-pg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93EF51270A0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id s75so17354792pgs.0 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=SRybZO0wv+O1zgGEHbWVOS5XJXOrx6R+lO0AcuJCgI0=; b=O00Gah5T1L7nPE+OVOt3JROZaWQuqsj3cyoFYLG79q+ZwFntMQoejjqKPi5T76XPBQ bHtbaf6l94AiVMz3p97XYcdeEqkAdn2mSoJQZIHFPYMhgGc1MfU2d2uXEHnaqRhA5fAk +8yGuZwpgfPJNvxDSkhZ9R0E38SPJWf4Raldz9p3EC/VJksvCHD/4P+3HZJUZ9xa9VWb HY5IXihZhng4kpfptwuPdLeo28WGzZPcNdpb/qLUttHp4yLT18YpcmVnflk00+3N+BfW +MWMYftPeWc4UrkYzvzPve5Qmd7uEnLiqRlXu9irCcVPIhMAdmjd++n+PFN1qExNcBgM XVqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=SRybZO0wv+O1zgGEHbWVOS5XJXOrx6R+lO0AcuJCgI0=; b=dbrYhlsiyYaf4t5hco84cUzjZtbHMiKDVpg7xYWmnpF3abeYW4LdfDeSHZ3oukAQrz TYpXs+5U2VY7REPT1qQmkPnHpoPhuRksh9Hj2mHMyXFMWZWfc5QLTfTFIsllRglxZQQz X7QXYC0p9FkpZg7NfAe+/1J+z0IYGWwZvW5agp2wUhL5rnr8JzrjHia8usU4TWwfm2qh 7fyS66Z77QhcmktsCsskrXadvzSI62g6K9ejfLXB3g6lGLMpx5cZRHNx+ArZ5euBEDTj EIizYyqLXHnx0dCN2JGo0p5au9X6r8zGCN1zDdBD2qtIKBSXhSkkvVgnU04vjTlJTrhi C6xQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7smBdzKe18LPH2Wf8bJytjpEBgsggNfE+HVk7h+tscVCVSIj06 02fXlytSpdin+jIbn7iTLjANUGGgSXM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbHXPesAEd3GbP5EymV0WTp/SXakGcivYMNnXHApUocU6/y4dPju9gA1KHG48TmTByxLXCQAQ== X-Received: by 10.98.73.196 with SMTP id r65mr16288884pfi.169.1510728750920; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:1998:961:9ce7:8fd5:1ecf? ([2001:67c:370:1998:961:9ce7:8fd5:1ecf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p87sm24792241pfi.95.2017.11.14.22.52.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ted Lemon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_139E496D-B1A5-405C-A672-0D57C9CD2E3F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 14:52:27 +0800 To: int-area X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 06:52:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_139E496D-B1A5-405C-A672-0D57C9CD2E3F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'd like to have a bit of discussion today on the architectural choices = in the current draft, if possible. There are two issues I want to discuss: The assumption that each PvD will have its own router The expected behavior of hosts that do not support MPvD in the presence = of multiple routers The first assumption is problematic in the sense that in most cases (I = think), it will actually be the case that the multiple provisioning = domains will both be on the other side of a leaf router from the host = that is accessing them. In this case, requiring multiple RAs with = different link-local addresses is fairly heavyweight. The second issue isn't, strictly speaking, an MPvD problem, but I think = it implicates MPvD because I think the behavior in this case is = undefined. E.g., if both routers advertise a set of name servers, what = does the host do? We've been looking at this in Homenet, and this came up as a serious = concern: if the host chooses one set of name servers, it may not be able = to access services in the other PvD. And yet if the host does support = MPvD, we kind of want it to use different name servers per PvD. So = what we concluded is that we want to be able to give hosts that do not = support MPvD a clear answer that is different than the answer we give = out for each PvD. This would not be possible with the current proposal. It's not a hard = problem to solve, but we need to consider whether or not, and how, to = solve it. --Apple-Mail=_139E496D-B1A5-405C-A672-0D57C9CD2E3F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I'd like to have a bit of discussion today on the = architectural choices in the current draft, if possible.

There are two issues I = want to discuss:
  1. The assumption that each PvD will have its own router
  2. The expected behavior of hosts that do not support MPvD in = the presence of multiple routers

The first assumption is = problematic in the sense that in most cases (I think), it will actually = be the case that the multiple provisioning domains will both be on the = other side of a leaf router from the host that is accessing them.   = In this case, requiring multiple RAs with different link-local addresses = is fairly heavyweight.

The second issue isn't, strictly speaking, an MPvD problem, = but I think it implicates MPvD because I think the behavior in this case = is undefined.   E.g., if both routers advertise a set of name = servers, what does the host do?

We've been looking at this in Homenet, = and this came up as a serious concern: if the host chooses one set of = name servers, it may not be able to access services in the other PvD. =  And yet if the host does support MPvD, we = kind of want it to use different name servers per PvD.   So what we = concluded is that we want to be able to give hosts that do not support = MPvD a clear answer that is different than the = answer we give out for each PvD.

This would not be possible with the = current proposal.   It's not a hard problem to solve, but we need = to consider whether or not, and how, to solve it.
= --Apple-Mail=_139E496D-B1A5-405C-A672-0D57C9CD2E3F-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 00:32:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB29126C0F for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:32:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 74j0BqUm2wuc for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECC00128B27 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 00:32:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=17564; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510734746; x=1511944346; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=0rk2yUeMJ+OEBDSguJGpg2vbpR1kU7i5FY6UKjIqbzE=; b=DOplot+T9IgiHdO5apz6YCKhjPRx5xAY/+UFwSb0ncnm/kipXfEYzp/j rhdcbmJISgv4l6J8A3aCveTF/ZwPhaHZG9vxIcicVo8HkdtWGxN/Nq9ux 1gHfksybljkd5z5ma/Jeu7blngmDHer/Y1V0UqUuQWrwWMIBCLJPi3rBl Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DCAADr+gta/5ldJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJERC5kbicHg3iKH48igVcmkRGFSYIRCoU7AhqEaj8YAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBayiFHgEBAQEDIwpcAgEIDgMDAQIrAgICMB0IAgQBEolAZKplgicminIBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgzSCB4FVghILgnaEUmaCdTGCMgWRcZBGApU?= =?us-ascii?q?Ek0SWAAIRGQGBOAEfOIF0ehVJLQGCNoRfd4YsgSSBEQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,398,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217";a="102888422" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2017 08:32:26 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAF8WPDp015911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:32:26 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:32:25 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:32:25 -0500 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Ted Lemon , int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. Thread-Index: AQHTXd5UHo9cNoAB3Eq/LsxEZcVWvaMVgXeA Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:32:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.68.218.169] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE5C3A8151FA404290E004930B361A88ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 09:05:33 -0000 --94eb2c05fc9020e622055e01ce5c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Size constraints seem like a good thing. Might keep people from sending search lists. Is there a reason not to just define a new packet type, instead of requiring the use of an additional multicast listener? On Nov 15, 2017 16:32, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" wrote: > Ted, > > > > For the benefit of the WG members that were not at the WG meeting, let me > thank you again for your interest and your comments on the -00. > > > > The authors have already discussed about your points and other similar > ones. We have two potential approaches to fix this short-term issue: > > - PvD containers where PIO, RDNSS, ... options are inside the > container so those options will be ignored by non PvD aware hosts > > - Sending PvD RA not to ff02::1 but to a different link-local > multicast group, PvD aware hosts must process RA received via ff02::1 and > this new group > > > > I personally prefer the later as the former creates a 'complex' encoding > that will stay forever to solve a short-term issue (non PvD aware hosts). > It also puts a size-constraint on the PvD as RA cannot be fragmented. > > > > Expect more discussions/proposals on the list on this topic > > > > -=C3=A9ric > > > > *From: *Int-area on behalf of Ted Lemon < > mellon@fugue.com> > *Date: *Wednesday 15 November 2017 at 14:52 > *To: *int-area > *Subject: *[Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. > > > > I'd like to have a bit of discussion today on the architectural choices i= n > the current draft, if possible. > > > > There are two issues I want to discuss: > > 1. The assumption that each PvD will have its own router > 2. The expected behavior of hosts that do not support MPvD in the > presence of multiple routers > > > > The first assumption is problematic in the sense that in most cases (I > think), it will actually be the case that the multiple provisioning domai= ns > will both be on the other side of a leaf router from the host that is > accessing them. In this case, requiring multiple RAs with different > link-local addresses is fairly heavyweight. > > > > The second issue isn't, strictly speaking, an MPvD problem, but I think i= t > implicates MPvD because I think the behavior in this case is undefined. > E.g., if both routers advertise a set of name servers, what does the host > do? > > > > We've been looking at this in Homenet, and this came up as a serious > concern: if the host chooses one set of name servers, it may not be able = to > access services in the other PvD. And yet if the host *does* support > MPvD, we kind of want it to use different name servers per PvD. So what > we concluded is that we want to be able to give hosts that do not support > MPvD a clear answer that is *different* than the answer we give out for > each PvD. > > > > This would not be possible with the current proposal. It's not a hard > problem to solve, but we need to consider whether or not, and how, to sol= ve > it. > > > > --94eb2c05fc9020e622055e01ce5c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Size constraints seem like a good thing. Might keep peopl= e from sending search lists. Is there a reason not to just define a new pac= ket type, instead of requiring the use of an additional multicast listener?=

On Nov 15, = 2017 16:32, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com> wrote:

Ted,

=C2=A0

For the benefit of the WG members that were not at the WG meeting, let me = thank you again for your interest and your comments on the -00.

=C2=A0

The authors have already discussed about your points and other similar one= s. We have two potential approaches to fix this short-term issue:=

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 PvD containers where PIO, RDNSS, ... options are inside the container= so those options will be ignored by non PvD aware hosts

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Sending PvD RA not to ff02::1 but to a different link-local multicast= group, PvD aware hosts must process RA received via ff02::1 and this new g= roup

=C2=A0

I personally prefer the later as the former creates a 'complex' en= coding that will stay forever to solve a short-term issue (non PvD aware ho= sts). It also puts a size-constraint on the PvD as RA cannot be fragmented.

=C2=A0

Expect more discussions/proposals on the list on this topic<= /span>

=C2=A0

-=C3=A9ric

=C2=A0

F= rom: Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.= org> on behalf of Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Wednesday 15 November 2017 at 14:52
To: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft.

=C2=A0

I'd like to have a bit of discussion today on th= e architectural choices in the current draft, if possible.

=C2=A0

There are two issues I want to discuss:

  1. The assumption that each PvD will have its own router
  2. The expected behavior of hosts that do not support MPvD in the presence of = multiple routers

=C2=A0

The first assumption is problematic in the sense tha= t in most cases (I think), it will actually be the case that the multiple p= rovisioning domains will both be on the other side of a leaf router from th= e host that is accessing them. =C2=A0 In this case, requiring multiple RAs with different link-local addresses is f= airly heavyweight.

=C2=A0

The second issue isn't, strictly speaking, an MP= vD problem, but I think it implicates MPvD because I think the behavior in = this case is undefined. =C2=A0 E.g., if both routers advertise a set of nam= e servers, what does the host do?

=C2=A0

We've been looking at this in Homenet, and this = came up as a serious concern: if the host chooses one set of name servers, = it may not be able to access services in the other PvD.=C2=A0 And yet if th= e host does=C2=A0support MPvD, we kind of want it to use different name ser= vers per PvD. =C2=A0 So what we concluded is that we want to be able to giv= e hosts that do not support MPvD a clear answer that is different=C2=A0than the answer we give out for each PvD.

=C2=A0

This would not be possible with the current proposal= . =C2=A0 It's not a hard problem to solve, but we need to consider whet= her or not, and how, to solve it.

=C2=A0

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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011C_01D35E43.31075420" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGl1d+I9kNslOADPxV/2bg2crnDOaNwUaCA Content-Language: en-us msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Owner=gmonte@ntdev.microsoft.com; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2017-11-15T10:54:34.6172411Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=General; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Extended_MSFT_Method=Automatic; Sensitivity=General Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mizrahi-intarea-packet-timestamps-00.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:58:42 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01D35E43.31075420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to point your attention to a new draft that presents = guidelines for defining packet timestamp formats. Please see the = abstract and links below. =20 Any comments will be welcome. =20 [gem] Not a review of your draft, but a request for advice on a document = that may be somewhat related: in 6lo WG, we just adopted this document: =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6lo-deadline-time/ =20 This document carries fields which specify, for packets, origination = time and deadline time. Since you may have some advice for this doc, = I=E2=80=99m sharing with you. Please send any comments to the 6lo WG = list at: 6lo@ietf.org =20 =20 Thanks, =20 Gabriel (6lo WG co-chair) ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01D35E43.31075420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would like to point your = attention to a new draft that presents guidelines for defining packet = timestamp formats. Please see the abstract and links = below.

 

Any comments will be welcome.

 

[gem] = Not a review of your draft, but a request for advice on a document that = may be somewhat related: in 6lo WG, we just adopted this = document:

 

h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6lo-deadline-time/

 

This document carries fields which specify, for = packets, origination time and deadline time. Since you may have some = advice for this doc, I=E2=80=99m sharing with you. Please send any = comments to the 6lo WG list at: 6lo@ietf.org=C2=A0=C2=A0 =

 

Thanks,

 

Gabriel (6lo = WG co-chair)

------=_NextPart_000_011C_01D35E43.31075420-- From nobody Wed Nov 15 03:00:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EAB126CC7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:00:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X6NAVOsZ5Cqp for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFF67129409 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:00:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8C4FAAF; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:00:46 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1510743646; bh=2FpmktokXX3TfyWfkcB+uUw5EFJOtR6VVXDkYh65r8I=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=AYnn0MkHGE4MDji3aS+pk1RWTldWW3cyuxTgvINTJflQZmkoA94s2z/kV3FvBBOBQ YNuFrYxTwGKc1N8MTql5zqnR1UtNytfYwpWjuNNtKaqyWEcMI1zGCVAI9PGbiItAlp dI5MgP+8N8smyE9jLupjK7oTa/HBkfFb5QSS4CTQ= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D1D9F; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:00:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:00:46 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Ted Lemon cc: int-area In-Reply-To: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> Message-ID: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:00:54 -0000 On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ted Lemon wrote: > The assumption that each PvD will have its own router I don't think this is the case? It's just that each PVD is in its own RA, it doesn't mean one router can't send multiple RAs, one per PVD? That's at least my understanding. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed Nov 15 03:10:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B074128B44 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:10:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GX64B2uZM1UT for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:10:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0128.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4053E126CC7 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:10:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=11XYzBUfQYdH97MzF/ZYa/VMETvZB+80eSqobsqnoAM=; b=gUb9CjvFQ64Uwa0dTsxB6oGbqMDPrGHMFr2sBm/PpIHDb1hZH39na28aPcsu8ew+1/qkkiD08d2pRIm2JsHVePDeahUxvG1h50Cj0xm3yGR0sqpWO8E0VAOs/JTbnIGTxFFbTrOoV3jLjXnDtcR8+M77zw7dzfX61p2UfFiQ+QU= Received: from DB6PR83MB0197.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com (141.251.210.84) by DB6PR83MB0198.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com (141.251.210.85) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.260.2; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:10:42 +0000 Received: from DB6PR83MB0197.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8c26:bf58:778f:e6c5]) by DB6PR83MB0197.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8c26:bf58:778f:e6c5%18]) with mapi id 15.20.0260.001; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:10:42 +0000 From: Marcus Keane To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Ted Lemon CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. Thread-Index: AQHTXd5VhFYsPwj490qSKP9gvICwP6MVRj0AgAABGUA= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Owner=mkeane@microsoft.com; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2017-11-15T11:10:42.4438633Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=General; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Extended_MSFT_Method=Automatic; Sensitivity=General x-originating-ip: [94.245.87.198] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR83MB0198; 6:eUXMskbEIT8XpKseKU6GdDHexDyX9A18BnNKCBPu+f6vAqseqK7piT+6XyVbkVflceYkc3Ag9+tW60Swc3UhM6ZenJfJm+RlB2p3j6pDAvdZNG3eAvWkGK3XatDApOfm6qGhzbQuVXyis8r/lsLnj4zhm8+zGOqdfT1n+az/tD8h+iVJTwwEDpBSCkJJ6Git5jH00KTiPAKbk8jmpHNY3j4S5gZOCOw3De+V/42S1cwttQYL9cJegTdq9LxL/yJqJ7J11M8Sulcmu98eVKKcZ7l5lTRGFGY1Gg6wnUVyunZ1MD88SgrtEEilVJ0fKb8Q2BSabc4Xnkv62fR2BSKMTA==; 5:cDvT3ZdYOsSo81CbwIBgFJiulflBUgF7lZmHGg7CjC/7Knzc1fE/I0PCy+zr/7g7NBpKbP/cKaq2q9Jo8XRyD+FRDv34j0fCepJY3GRGaOdeD773/MWHDLeoXeGau+nYULEZYdsiRXjw4a+ymnsQ1JqYTkt3fSQNqEoDFejq+K4=; 24:rmUuNdyYz8a794yRPDnKn67UEqjQCs0qQjhqJenpEiOH8YzOA2k4VAcbZb/24SWwaUPu/AcD6y6y7cTbd0MGSzxaGJwjQt8oelKmtRNAn9s=; 7:MlvmjtykllbKC5cGWUX0m7XgMdIDbpmgvBM47ImQ+NMT9B+4QfyWM7Lo8Zeqqkqyzz3HcHo+d3TLr+O3t84+Oj5IPFQ48KrY2wLWp/Ne3XCrrEp8UAl5cs45xJYWc9IubId7068mG6yADl+fs0qNBe+TrOVNZluvY8u07v0Up3CEwIqG1o+O9P623VtpFph4qVIPf62N2lRE4Dk9N+5GD4VDPnb8hZZOoZpu5UpwmCJIgP4r2Q4uoudpajmB7bhg x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b5344ab6-81f8-41e2-e3b1-08d52c1982d8 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(48565401081)(2017052603258); SRVR:DB6PR83MB0198; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR83MB0198: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Marcus.Keane@microsoft.com; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(120809045254105)(189930954265078)(219752817060721); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(61425038)(6040450)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3231022)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(10201501046)(6055026)(61426038)(61427038)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(20161123555025)(20161123562025)(20161123564025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:DB6PR83MB0198; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:DB6PR83MB0198; x-forefront-prvs: 0492FD61DD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(47760400005)(24454002)(13464003)(189002)(199003)(252514010)(33656002)(6306002)(14454004)(74316002)(9686003)(3846002)(6116002)(316002)(110136005)(10290500003)(2906002)(53936002)(10090500001)(229853002)(102836003)(5660300001)(22452003)(7696004)(2950100002)(99286004)(5250100002)(6506006)(6436002)(8990500004)(101416001)(8936002)(55016002)(50986999)(25786009)(76176999)(54356999)(86362001)(81166006)(4326008)(97736004)(66066001)(72206003)(2900100001)(86612001)(81156014)(189998001)(7736002)(53546010)(106356001)(105586002)(68736007)(966005)(3660700001)(3280700002)(8676002)(478600001)(6246003)(305945005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB6PR83MB0198; H:DB6PR83MB0197.EURPRD83.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b5344ab6-81f8-41e2-e3b1-08d52c1982d8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Nov 2017 11:10:42.1349 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR83MB0198 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:10:48 -0000 Hi Mikael, That's correct. One router could send multiple RAs, each one from a differe= nt LLA(with each one containing a different PvD). This different LLA techni= que is suggested in the pa multihoming draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming= / Cheers, Marcus > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mikael > Abrahamsson > Sent: 15 November 2017 11:01 > To: Ted Lemon > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. >=20 > On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ted Lemon wrote: >=20 > > The assumption that each PvD will have its own router >=20 > I don't think this is the case? It's just that each PVD is in its own RA,= it doesn't > mean one router can't send multiple RAs, one per PVD? That's at least my > understanding. >=20 > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i > etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fint- > area&data=3D02%7C01%7Cmarcus.keane%40microsoft.com%7Cd387dc38afba4 > 60284c508d52c182564%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7 > C636463404586240619&sdata=3DDWKSLHSV7zkvk3ixDkMFnM6BxIy89n%2B4ZP > NhQjL7Dxc%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Wed Nov 15 03:34:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41E1126B6E for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:34:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ecs.soton.ac.uk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqSciQwserms for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:34:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 461FC1200FC for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 03:34:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAFBY2wN005024; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:34:02 GMT X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk vAFBY2wN005024 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1510745642; bh=htNyzrxFpsLjpG+ykqUIKuJ2eN8=; h=Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=MR462xLw/VXVOjVK9WZmW7w2oIufgoAHpHA8CVkE3uWk5eADodGi/aNNlPRl+S2QS FYSc3C9mZulGCvo/8GK3xu25DiZvq/sP4YCECNzakoBBKH+kbNfq+3WlW/l1qVhWpY Gf7yIOEH5VMKYEB3g2/RJiGW1Q6iv+Pt9Xh3t8qI= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk ([2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:401]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102:250:56ff:fea0:68da]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id yAEBY22344308205m1 ret-id none; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:34:02 +0000 Received: from [10.198.3.184] ([212.161.4.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id vAFBXxdH012712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:33:59 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:33:59 +0000 Cc: Ted Lemon , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> <29BA34DE-926F-44EF-A9AB-D48E1343CE41@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Mikael Abrahamsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=yAEBY2234430820500; tid=yAEBY22344308205m1; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=3:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: vAFBY2wN005024 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:34:10 -0000 > On 15 Nov 2017, at 11:00, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ted Lemon wrote: >=20 >> The assumption that each PvD will have its own router >=20 > I don't think this is the case? It's just that each PVD is in its own = RA, it doesn't mean one router can't send multiple RAs, one per PVD? = That's at least my understanding. I=E2=80=99d made that (wrong?) assumption too. Tim= From nobody Wed Nov 15 04:13:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9F2127867 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:13:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5LFvnaSJBenP for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-in1.asia.apple.com (mail-out.asia.apple.com [17.82.254.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2C82124D68 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:13:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=apple.com; s=mailout2048s; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@apple.com; t=1510748023; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-id:To:Cc:MIME-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-reply-to:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fucSv9qCGiB91PTDRLY1RAXdFWjJtjFk7gWRSQKBDFc=; b=1OOnD27ntV+nYUjkB9phrtBWand12D0SA+bgmv2/HcEb3tUw/gvvi18vaUVOCQyi HFvkajVsEDijtetRG+gZ75mS78A5ktgL9QyxgmVASvgtVovkDcPLL+/Wr8qk0P5X yupYu+OLHI9unn3ghqsISs5oEe/Z4yLn7FsUxIyA6A9KhKQqrQggB9tNIUc1i2A9 yt9Ghifj+4vbFhIieefshN6OHcI+O3/pplTCK8il51D52rFUhFmF4EYqpi18SJ3P c6DIpHSm94rhNGrC7ozGnMpMOguFO2JyaNz5iCaKfxpZpzd80Yf1aN4KOrtr0Mhk r+m4QhjOJaN7L1vcOZXm8g==; Received: from relay3.asia.apple.com ( [17.82.200.17]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mail-in1.asia.apple.com (Apple Singapore Mail Gateway) with SMTP id 78.A2.07591.77F2C0A5; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:13:43 +0800 (MYT) X-AuditID: 1152fe11-cdecd9c000001da7-45-5a0c2f778e86 Received: from sng-mmpp-sz02.asia.apple.com ( [17.84.80.27]) by relay3.asia.apple.com (Apple Singapore relay) with SMTP id E3.C5.26676.77F2C0A5; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:13:43 +0800 (MYT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Received: from [17.235.152.21] by sng-mmpp-sz02.asia.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.1.3.20170825 64bit (built Aug 25 2017)) with ESMTPSA id <0OZG007YQKMVC990@sng-mmpp-sz02.asia.apple.com>; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:13:43 +0800 (SGT) Sender: tpauly@apple.com From: Tommy Pauly In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:13:42 +0800 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , int-area Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: <0BA09844-A318-4D41-B8A5-37EE75EFDC05@apple.com> References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> <29BA34DE-926F-44EF-A9AB-D48E1343CE41@ecs.soton.ac.uk> To: Tim Chown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.5) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiGHRCULdcnyfKYPFkGYsbs26yWLxcupXN 4tCe52wOzB5/17l6LFnyk8nj76SHTAHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZz/btYCm4y1bxoG0GWwPj BtYuRk4OCQETiT1HZ4DZQgIrmSQ2vjGDie9tP87excgFFN/BKPHw1CcmkASvgKDEj8n3WLoY OTiYBdQlpkzJhaj5zyix48Z5VpC4sICExOY9iSDlwgLmEn1Xf7GB2GwCKhLHv21gBqnnFGhn lLh0vIcRJMEioCpx5+gaFhCbWcBd4tmPR2wQtrbEk3cXWCH22khM/fgH6iCgQ/u27GEGSYgI KEu8nfefEeJqRYmHm7pYQYokBBawSbxq2sY6gVF4FpLDZyEcPgvJjgWMzKsYxXMTM3N0M/MM 9RKLMxP1EgsKclL1kvNzNzGCw/6f4A7GqQsNDzEKcDAq8fCaafBECbEmlhVX5h5ilOBgVhLh Te7njhLiTUmsrEotyo8vKs1JLT7EKM3BoiTO2xf5KVJIID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmy8TBKdXAeKx0 Iic/h6n5AbvVq3R3n5CubhIo0rx94R5LVusP1mO7ta7V6B+aPUPjoUTXocTNz4xlmznym7bN vP9hs/reT1eEsx4Zvecvf1PHKdt07c0aqxRhoeb0nOJPpZN4ox6Kv5jIGbJmq3Vi0sYavonL m1yc/ARPWPJsiNa96HCnR2OfweZDc/9nKrEUZyQaajEXFScCAKofcQV3AgAA X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUiGBIgrVuuzxNl0LxSwuLGrJssFi+XbmWz OLTnOZsDs8ffda4eS5b8ZPL4O+khUwBzFJdNSmpOZllqkb5dAlfGs307WAruslU8aJvB1sC4 gbWLkZNDQsBEYm/7cfYuRi4OIYEdjBIPT31iAknwCghK/Jh8j6WLkYODWUBdYsqUXIia/4wS O26cZwWJCwtISGzekwhSLixgLtF39RcbiM0moCJx/NsGZpB6ToF2RolLx3sYQRIsAqoSd46u YQGxmQXcJZ79eMQGYWtLPHl3gRVir43E1I9/oA5aySTRt2UPM0hCREBZ4u28/4wQVytKPNzU xTqBUWAWkltnIdw6C8nYBYzMqxhFi1JzEiuN9RKLMxP1EgsKclL1kvNzNzGCAjXohOAOxg9T DQ8xCnAwKvHwmmrwRAmxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4U3u544S4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+xCjNwaIk zqsZ9SlSSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJsvEwSnVwFj+0uu3esHOxJnTlrgtnTV15zft5GNfPjblRE29 dtrZalE17815klsbM3Q2JnyT1kprC71+IXlu9i/+V7c2xHNn85j5VUevuGnP//jZLD1Zw//G 9jyLEzhDlh6MSOcqMne+8W36zMnO279vUJm+8T2Tl87Uw4mnpTprywxT2kz2KkmteH7k1WQl luKMREMt5qLiRAAkc/1BUAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:13:47 -0000 > On Nov 15, 2017, at 7:33 PM, Tim Chown wrote: >=20 >> On 15 Nov 2017, at 11:00, Mikael Abrahamsson = wrote: >>=20 >> On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ted Lemon wrote: >>=20 >>> The assumption that each PvD will have its own router >>=20 >> I don't think this is the case? It's just that each PVD is in its own = RA, it doesn't mean one router can't send multiple RAs, one per PVD? = That's at least my understanding. >=20 > I=E2=80=99d made that (wrong?) assumption too. The design is that one router would send multiple RAs, one for each PvD. = If there are multiple routers, then each could be sending one or more = RAs as well. Best, Tommy >=20 > Tim > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Wed Nov 15 08:03:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671AB124C27 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:03:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nP7rBfoIiVKx for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C530120724 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 08:03:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=21674; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1510761808; x=1511971408; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=EwCjVr/okWe7g48jiY0aSBuunOCQ8bA/AlhIsQHqiEk=; b=g1+VsUFSLfYRFFrMg+/8612S6Dm6dCJEV4iQlRV0DMPmCAVOpjDdNtyM fQASaMK8hzmTxt3VnOilNBBufy9vJwup58dmMjQfH6loiMRxY/5xaX3bz /9ilm/H99BmNUeuBe/cKVuk5XRo5ilb5s1aoCmzqTN8spHzBVKsVCYuez M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CcAAD2Ywxa/5pdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJERC5kbicHg3iKH48fgX2RFIVJghEKhTsCGoR0PxgBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQFrKIUeAQEBBCNWEAIBCA4DAwECKAMCAgIwFAkIAgQOBYlAZKhYgicmim0BA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgzSCB4FVghKDAYRSXQkWgl8xgjIFkXGQRgK?= =?us-ascii?q?VBJNElgECERkBgTgBHziBdHoVSS0BgjaEX3eJW4EkgREBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.44,399,1505779200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="31966592" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Nov 2017 16:03:27 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (xch-rtp-013.cisco.com [64.101.220.153]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAFG3QQY031996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:03:26 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:03:26 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:03:25 -0500 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Ted Lemon CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. Thread-Index: AQHTXd5UHo9cNoAB3Eq/LsxEZcVWvaMVgXeA///4YoCAAIWkAA== Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:03:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.68.218.169] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AD475B56F10F4EBAB93FDBD4E4086602ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. 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Vyncke (evyncke)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:07:37 -0000 On Nov 16, 2017, at 12:03 AM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) = wrote: > This could be an alternative but I can only imagine the pile of = changes to be done... RA-guard, RFC 4890, ... Wouldn't these changes be required as well if you used a different = multicast address? > In either alternative (different link-local group, different ND code), = we HAVE to ensure whether it is doable with the existing HW/SW in the = routers/switches/AP... I am afraid that this is more complex to change = the network/routers than the end-points (thinking about OS/HW refresh = cycle) but I can, obviously, be wrong on this statement. Yes. So this is once again arguing for the encapsulation solution. From SRS0=iMb8=CN=darou.fr=pierre.pfister@bounces.m4x.org Wed Nov 15 13:24:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BAE11270A3 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:24:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BtCOsaq18Qw3 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:24:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 613531271FD for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.31.172] (unknown [42.61.208.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8813B5648C1; Wed, 15 Nov 2017 22:24:22 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) From: Pierre Pfister In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 05:24:17 +0800 Cc: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <45957315-A9A2-4E11-9069-5C41C7397034@fugue.com> To: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Wed Nov 15 22:24:24 2017 +0100 (CET)) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Comments on current MPvD draft. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:25:21 -0000 > Le 16 nov. 2017 =C3=A0 05:07, Ted Lemon a =C3=A9crit = : >=20 > On Nov 16, 2017, at 12:03 AM, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) = wrote: >> This could be an alternative but I can only imagine the pile of = changes to be done... RA-guard, RFC 4890, ... >=20 > Wouldn't these changes be required as well if you used a different = multicast address? RA-guard (RFC6105) doesn't mention the destination address as a way to = identify RAs. It makes sense since both unicast and multicast RAs must be filtered. Please tell if you know about implementations behaving differently. - Pierre >=20 >> In either alternative (different link-local group, different ND = code), we HAVE to ensure whether it is doable with the existing HW/SW in = the routers/switches/AP... I am afraid that this is more complex to = change the network/routers than the end-points (thinking about OS/HW = refresh cycle) but I can, obviously, be wrong on this statement. >=20 > Yes. So this is once again arguing for the encapsulation solution. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Thu Nov 16 08:01:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB1F124B0A for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:01:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=garr.it Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cV-BSVCKJg0n for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyrus.dir.garr.it (cyrus.dir.garr.it [193.206.158.29]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E481F1296B0 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 08:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: internal info suppressed Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:00:38 +0100 (CET) From: Claudio Allocchio X-X-Sender: claudio@mac-allocchio3.local To: Xiajinwei , daniel@olddog.co.uk, Zongning cc: int-area@ietf.org, lola-project@garr.it Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (OSX 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="===============0536752689241276256==" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=garr.it; s=cyrus; t=1510848039; bh=j2OOAQkW3kUFMGwslqWDQe+zsue42PBidsavkOgjNvs=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject; b=P4YK7oADbtGcdej5rQdCUqT9QfKrzRuVsBRn4L1WZU0C4geBjVKJD+NCQJ/NtrfYz 0pViOpBHGVzpjR+Mp2A328aJy5ZHmD4omsAw51y5MODDjOOw9TRhwHubEG9/dHQqvk fo9ugYJXpeKUK7MyqhcGDd85VqS87b5+byxikFnc= Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] [Latency] Fwd: Latency Critical Communication (fwd) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:01:00 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --===============0536752689241276256== Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hello, I guess you should add another very effecrting and important use case to the I-D, which is LoLa https://lola.conts.it and it belongs to the CriC/URLLC case, too. We as LoLa developers have collected a huge experince in the last 15+ years on what affects data network and how this creates latency problems to applicaitons like LoLa itself (which is just a very efficient UDP data streamer). So, feel free to use also this case as one of the examples. LoLa is not any more just "music at distance", but is used also in neurological studies to see how latency affects human brain reactions, and can apply to medical science (and remote surgery is one of this cases). all the best! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claudio Allocchio G A R R Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it Senior Technical Officer tel: +39 040 3758523 Italian Academic and G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; fax: +39 040 3758565 Research Network P=garr; A=garr; C=it; PGP Key: https://www.cert.garr.it/servizi/informazioni-su-pgp-keys > From: Xiajinwei > Subject: [Int-area] Latency Critical Communication > Date: 9 November 2017 at 01:38:07 GMT > To: "int-area@ietf.org" > Cc: "daniel@olddog.co.uk" , Zongning > > Hi All, > > We recently posted an I-D that discusses architectural considerations for delivering latency critical communication over the Internet. Our objective is to see if there is interest in coordinating discussion on the topic of latency sensitive applications across Internet infrastructure for emerging applications (including 5G, IoT, M2M). > > The draft identifies common service requirements, potential solutions and gaps, and areas for further development, rather than being published as RFC. > > The I-D is provided below: Architectural Considerations for Delivering Latency Critical Communication over the Internet > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xia-latency-critical-communication-00 > > Please reviewing it at your convenient time and show your comments. > > I am very appreciated in advance :-) > > Thanks! > Jinwei > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --===============0536752689241276256== Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Content-Description: Content-Disposition: INLINE _______________________________________________ Latency mailing list Latency@elists.isoc.org https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/latency --===============0536752689241276256==-- From nobody Thu Nov 16 17:59:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 129CE126C3D for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:59:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NSOxP2geRisF for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F30124239 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2017 17:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 15BD352B2903A for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 01:59:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.361.1; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 01:59:12 +0000 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.198]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:58:59 +0800 From: Xiajinwei To: Claudio Allocchio , "daniel@olddog.co.uk" , Zongning CC: "int-area@ietf.org" , "lola-project@garr.it" Thread-Topic: [Latency] Fwd: [Int-area] Latency Critical Communication (fwd) Thread-Index: AQHTXvQaNK0kgOSdQEOkO9/W8Zl6yaMXwGFw Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 01:58:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: 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ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnQtYXJlYQ0K From nobody Wed Nov 29 07:38:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9AE124B18; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:38:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: int-area@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, suresh@kaloom.com, intarea-chairs@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <151196993696.8004.15930864842662218714.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:38:56 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Last Call: (PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:38:57 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Internet Area Working Group WG (intarea) to consider the following document: - 'PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-12-13. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to test the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Alternatively, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ballot/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2813/ From nobody Thu Nov 30 13:44:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87FB1294F3; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:44:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Joel Halpern To: Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:44:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:44:38 -0000 Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review result: Almost Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 Reviewer: Joel Halpern Review Date: 2017-11-30 IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed Standard RFC. Major issues: I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts seems to indicate that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed interface. But I can not see how. Minor issues: In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC 2863. I would expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, the YANG model for the Interface stack. The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. Shall we try to encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. Nits/editorial comments: I find the description of the node containing the proxy interface as being "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the node containing the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the proxy node"? Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is equal to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to say "otherwise, clear the A-bit."