From nobody Thu Jan 26 23:55:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358FC129453 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:55:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.172 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.172 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.428, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gS8ERfAQ1YAM for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com (mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com [67.231.156.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24E57128874 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0045851.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com (8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v0R7onuk005838 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:59 -0800 Received: from il-exch01.marvell.com ([199.203.130.101]) by mx0b-0016f401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 287nr9b7ah-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:54:59 -0800 Received: from IL-EXCH01.marvell.com (10.4.102.220) by IL-EXCH01.marvell.com (10.4.102.220) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:54:56 +0200 Received: from IL-EXCH01.marvell.com ([fe80::5d63:81cd:31e2:fc36]) by IL-EXCH01.marvell.com ([fe80::5d63:81cd:31e2:fc36%20]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:54:56 +0200 From: Tal Mizrahi To: "ioam@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Test Thread-Index: AdJ4cqad5G2x3etrTOanwQHzh/cfCw== Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 07:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: <2e27c4c8d35547e68df108ce539eeb6c@IL-EXCH01.marvell.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [199.203.130.14] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2e27c4c8d35547e68df108ce539eeb6cILEXCH01marvellcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-01-27_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1701270082 Archived-At: Subject: [Ioam] Test X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 07:55:04 -0000 --_000_2e27c4c8d35547e68df108ce539eeb6cILEXCH01marvellcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --_000_2e27c4c8d35547e68df108ce539eeb6cILEXCH01marvellcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

--_000_2e27c4c8d35547e68df108ce539eeb6cILEXCH01marvellcom_-- From nobody Mon Jan 30 10:35:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D43129A8F for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:35:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIb49DKwZAnm for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 268AB129578 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:25:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12275; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1485800741; x=1487010341; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=DoZSWPFPeLjuLYttx8v7sUDS2bTXHRPulr3V27OtXsg=; b=bTie92mvPL0yydYpLUhS/US5gzN+aVp9nNOC+Mb18mWgmkssQhapNz5s vTuKYJjxCo1XJwPym9V92Z2lkHxgv4gWxFnFfnbhb/DcVC6PpxeAIDR5N mO5Cr6xHxwBol7sCAAGX4bYApiUixgBSKd/HqdRVb9lPPKsWnxut2pNtI Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ASAQDVhI9Y/5ldJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9kYYEQjVeiC4Mcgg+CDIJsgzaCJD8YAQIBAQEBAQEBYh0LhR0?= =?us-ascii?q?6BwsSAYEAJgEEDg2JWa1WixMBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdhkuPHQWbV?= =?us-ascii?q?AGBTJAlggKOfogmilgBHziBSxU7hjmIG4EMAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,312,1477958400"; d="scan'208,217";a="200425645" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Jan 2017 18:25:22 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v0UIPMVP012448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:25:22 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:25:21 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:25:21 -0600 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: "ioam@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group Thread-Index: AdJ7ImR0/+B4Zz61R4ajEF5nN+VeLw== Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:25:21 +0000 Message-ID: <568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.213.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1XCHRCD008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" , Tal Mizrahi , "Shwetha Bhandari \(shwethab\)" , joel jaeggli , "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" , "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" Subject: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:35:17 -0000 --_000_568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1XCHRCD008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG = mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a= dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y= ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t= hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so= that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p= rogress. We appreciate your thoughts and comments. Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos IOAM working group charter In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo= ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat= a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced= ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav= ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg= er, and export the embedded telemetry information. The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification = information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela= y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ = OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace. * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i= n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case of live traffic a c= lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an= d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur= e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe. * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a= specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove= d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. = Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha= ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-= situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain. * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them = independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM = will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN= -GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware= dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in = case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor= ds could be present in every transport protocol layer. The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo= r in-situ OAM. * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d= ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi= ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the= associated data packets). In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th= e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) = in consultation with the IOAM working group documents. Milestones April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG. March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure= s document. --_000_568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1XCHRCD008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Following the discussions and g= eneral support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance f= rom Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to pro= gress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in= -situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp a= nd focused, so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well a= s make quick progress.

 

We appreciate your thoughts and= comments.

 

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, C= arlos

 

 

IOAM working group charter=

In-situ OAM provides real-time = telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry in= formation which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends = to define data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and pa= th-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure= , trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. 

 

The IOAM WG will define the fol= lowing in-situ OAM components:

 

* Data-records for in-situ OAM = to cover path-tracing and path verification information (node-ids, ingress/= egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence num= bers, application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace. =

* Procedures to add, update, re= move, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and = active probing.  In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset= of live traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing proce= dure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.

*  Scope of in-situ OAM op= eration. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a specific operational doma= in. In-situ OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and= updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and= error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling= when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.

*  Data-records for in-sit= u OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them independent from the trans= port protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded i= nto transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.

* Procedures and data-records o= ptimized for software dataplane and hardware dataplane implementations of i= n-situ OAM.

* In-situ OAM to support layeri= ng. If several transport protocols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked = on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every tr= ansport protocol layer.

 

 

 

The IOAM working group intends = to work on and publish:

* Definition of the data-type f= ormats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for in-situ OAM.

* Definition of procedures that= in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data traffic that carries in-sit= u OAM information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and = exporting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).

In-situ OAM data records could = be embedded into a variety of transports. The transports are expected to be= defined in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM w= orking group documents.

 

 

Milestones

 

April 2018 - submit data format= and associated procedures document to IESG.

March 2018 - WGLC for data form= at and associated procedures document.

April 2017 - working group adop= tion of data format and associated procedures document.

--_000_568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1XCHRCD008ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Jan 30 13:50:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB27129634 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iofUp4FMNJrl for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x22b.google.com (mail-ot0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49072129621 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 65so252738266otq.2 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5fdcc7mdwIe2apwkZYO5x/mYs6+ZsCxYw1KbN4qOCSE=; b=VnpFTMlj8aoeZQ1aYlYemTyvza1OI6SUFFrX9YuoHMVJGHK0pHavjp/+Rv2HMKrblp jTO4p1wgfwNvDC8dDp+REIKRDBc6u3z5m8wgIKiTiQR1425OB+xKw2OfPgWTNR7OltJa TUA46Il+LgM1UhjTLABWBBPG2viwCtOkLm0YXtY8/TXAFq88J4tPPQLWgNq2VxdXl3Wd AXrtgOZTttsLrICLw3KNlB0hzXusIXDxfUtETnF33tN7kmiqqdSgsWGmbj4M37itaLfr oRTWgWxyJLFiWuofFCkmRD8JPXYD3eeOoLTS+9H3jdWG68JNctXlrHzYiwQaefCVqs7n E6Vw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5fdcc7mdwIe2apwkZYO5x/mYs6+ZsCxYw1KbN4qOCSE=; b=A2wp52jYpmcT2AFfE7BkpdULEZtONz5T0TPkr2hEINpD2uuYOQhzmyWkPKoXGoO9gi fYdWEnmLss0pvVj2Ip4yw+XC8cZMh08U7+ltAv0h1fd9rpv4WDNGrSGVmFqcEWTIapoH wUF6BH1b/asLHyHDY7hOpxGvSOdSExcvR52L0LQPdZbEIDwRnHCupJUEypsv+j8kqiqd jHNvVPNpxLwUGPcj8fB6Hkdq2iD/hGs6Wu+SkbfnE63MBuqxlGr+KmGLdXEWsSxk9sR/ vTdkjvIN1PG+oyJe1bJ4qGsgSi+ZGhAV8J3/zAlzdYQ2rOPTgmT+aW0t7Sq1YyoRlCDQ N85w== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJnamAh4DLoqx2d926+qFChhMXfnM5LhmYxPR+9CaNS0Eo/LKCQJBFvv9kOyy+Wm7nCZJ0jwGEnEqixDw== X-Received: by 10.157.3.209 with SMTP id f75mr10622626otf.261.1485813055527; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.21.1 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:55 -0800 (PST) From: Ram Krishnan Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:50:55 -0800 Message-ID: To: ioam@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c03c8ce60a547054756cf9f Archived-At: Subject: [Ioam] test - please ignore ... X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 21:50:57 -0000 --94eb2c03c8ce60a547054756cf9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 -- Thanks, Ramki --94eb2c03c8ce60a547054756cf9f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
--=C2=A0=
Thanks,=C2=A0
Ramki
--94eb2c03c8ce60a547054756cf9f-- From nobody Mon Jan 30 15:11:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10B5129BF6 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:11:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yzKJrbIJtH9O for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:11:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15383129BFC for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DFM80103; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:11:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.130) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:11:19 +0000 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.133]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:10:54 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" Thread-Topic: Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpA== Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:10:52 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.184] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2SJCEML702CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.588FC835.0143, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.133, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: db772cdade3b5aace2da83b121d378f7 Archived-At: Subject: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:11:55 -0000 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2SJCEML702CHMchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank: The first sentence of the proposed charter says: In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets = and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along wit= hin data packets So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthet= ic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encod= ed into the user data packets. Correct? Does it mean "Telemetry information that doesn't have user payload" is out = of the scope? Thanks, Linda Dunbar From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" > ________________________________ Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG = mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a= dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y= ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t= hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so= that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p= rogress. We appreciate your thoughts and comments. Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos IOAM working group charter In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo= ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat= a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced= ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav= ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg= er, and export the embedded telemetry information. The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification = information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela= y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ = OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace. * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i= n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case of live traffic a c= lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an= d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur= e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe. * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a= specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove= d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. = Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha= ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-= situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain. * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them = independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM = will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN= -GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware= dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in = case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor= ds could be present in every transport protocol layer. The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo= r in-situ OAM. * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d= ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi= ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the= associated data packets). In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th= e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) = in consultation with the IOAM working group documents. Milestones April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG. March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure= s document. Huawei USA IP Technology Lab 5340 Legacy Drive, Plano, TX 75024 Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840 Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900 --_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2SJCEML702CHMchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Frank:

The first sentence of = the proposed charter says:

In-situ OAM (IOAM) = provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is ba= sed on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets=

 

So the key differences= between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthetic data packets (i.e. = dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encoded into the user data = packets. Correct?

 

Does it mean “Te= lemetry information that doesn’t have user payload” is out of t= he scope?

 

Thanks, Linda Dunbar

 

 

From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <f= brockne at cisco.com>


 

Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM o= n the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to progre= ss normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of = a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. T= he scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quic= k progress.

 

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos

 

 

IOAM working group charter

In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data pa= ckets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define= data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanis= ms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as pro= cedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. 

 

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:<= o:p>

 

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path = verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, = application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an= in-situ OAM namespace.

* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-= records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset of li= ve traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-= records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data= records to the source of the probe.

*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations= are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by= nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challe= nges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path = MTU and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.

*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a wa= y that makes them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport= protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.

* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane= and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.

* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protoc= ols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transpor= t protocol layer.

 

 

 

The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:

* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and = namespaces for in-situ OAM.

* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will= perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and expor= ting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).

In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of t= ransports. The transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working g= roup documents.

 

 

Milestones

 

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures docu= ment to IESG.

March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures do= cument.

April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associa= ted procedures document.

 

 

Huawei USA IP Te= chnology Lab

5340 Legacy Driv= e,

Plano, TX 75024<= o:p>

Tel: +1 469-= 277 - 5840

Fax: +1 469 = -277 - 5900

 

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2SJCEML702CHMchi_-- From nobody Mon Jan 30 22:16:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietf.org Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2127112952B; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:53:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: "IETF Announcement List" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.41.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148579519711.29936.17158482803034062023.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:53:17 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 22:16:41 -0800 Cc: ioam@ietf.org, fbrockne@cisco.com, talmi@marvell.com Subject: [Ioam] New Non-WG Mailing List: ioam -- Discussion on In-Situ OAM which provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:53:17 -0000 A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: ioam@ietf.org Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=ioam To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam Purpose: In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets. This BOF is to form a WG. The to be created WG would define attributes for In-situ OAM. These attributes include the specification of data formats and associated procedures for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. For additional information, please contact the list administrators. 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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j18sm27679884wrb.33.2017.01.31.02.45.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Jan 2017 02:45:10 -0800 (PST) To: "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:07 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6E7BFAF9DB3BAA3D2D546FD3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6E7BFAF9DB3BAA3D2D546FD3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Frank We have other insitu approaches in flight and I hope that there is going to be no resultant confusion. There are proposals in MPLS and IPPM to perform loss, delay and jitter measurements on live packets using packet marking. The important difference between the approach taken there and this approach is that we have imposed a constraint that the forwarding plane cannot be modified. It would be useful to clarify that there are other ongoing IETF approaches to OAM on live traffic that are out of scope for this WG. - Stewart On 30/01/2017 23:10, Linda Dunbar wrote: > > Frank: > > The first sentence of the proposed charter says: > > In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data > packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is > embedded along within data packets > > So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses > synthetic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ > OAM are encoded into the user data packets. Correct? > > Does it mean “Telemetry information that doesn’t have user payload” is > out of the scope? > > Thanks, Linda Dunbar > > // > > // > > /From/: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the > OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are > to propose a dedicated working group to progress normative work on > in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of a working group > charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope is > intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can built on the past > discussions and work as well as make quick progress. > > We appreciate your thoughts and comments. > > Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos > > IOAM working group charter > > In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets > and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded > along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats > and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for > capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as > procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded > telemetry information. > > The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: > > * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path > verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), > timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, > application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined > using an in-situ OAM namespace. > > * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records > for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case of live > traffic a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, > update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of > active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the > source of the probe. > > * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined > for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added > and removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the > in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in > packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU > and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ > OAM domain. > > * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes > them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for > in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as > IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. > > * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and > hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. > > * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols > (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ > OAM data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer. > > The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: > > * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and > namespaces for in-situ OAM. > > * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform > on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., > introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the > telemetry information from the associated data packets). > > In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of > transports. The transports are expected to be defined in the > respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working > group documents. > > Milestones > > April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to > IESG. > > March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. > > April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated > procedures document. > > *Huawei USA IP Technology Lab*** > > *5340 Legacy Drive, * > > *Plano, TX 75024* > > *Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840 * > > *Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900 * > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ioam mailing list > Ioam@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam --------------6E7BFAF9DB3BAA3D2D546FD3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Frank

We have other insitu approaches in flight and I hope that there is going to be no resultant confusion.

There are proposals in MPLS and IPPM to perform loss, delay and jitter measurements on live packets using packet marking. The important difference between the approach taken there and this approach is that we have imposed a constraint that the forwarding plane cannot be modified.

It would be useful to clarify that there are other ongoing IETF approaches to OAM on live traffic that are out of scope for this WG.

- Stewart

On 30/01/2017 23:10, Linda Dunbar wrote:

Frank:

The first sentence of the proposed charter says:

In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets

 

So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthetic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encoded into the user data packets. Correct?

 

Does it mean “Telemetry information that doesn’t have user payload” is out of the scope?

 

Thanks, Linda Dunbar

 

 

From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne at cisco.com>


 

Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick progress.

 

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos

 

 

IOAM working group charter

In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. 

 

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:

 

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.

* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.

*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.

*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.

* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.

* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer.

 

 

 

The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:

* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for in-situ OAM.

* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).

In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. The transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.

 

 

Milestones

 

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.

March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.

April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedures document.

 

 

Huawei USA IP Technology Lab

5340 Legacy Drive,

Plano, TX 75024

Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840

Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900

 



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Ioam@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam

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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m188sm22827254wma.0.2017.01.31.06.27.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Jan 2017 06:27:32 -0800 (PST) To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:27:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FC98EBE27D7B4BDF2DDA34C2" Archived-At: Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 14:27:37 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FC98EBE27D7B4BDF2DDA34C2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly > mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs > (list them!) as needed. > Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes. - Stewart --------------FC98EBE27D7B4BDF2DDA34C2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote:

 

While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs (list them!) as needed.


Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.

- Stewart

--------------FC98EBE27D7B4BDF2DDA34C2-- From nobody Tue Jan 31 07:08:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923091294B2 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id df1NzjZZp-zg for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1E121294A1 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id j15so215848653oih.2 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EiW8oABvX+S8LxzEW+crpBOtWDif09xU+Wgz4oC8RRc=; b=kmiHZNEIYl2ytzI4JCEaLp8fyjW0Ty5jLS7okR7liUpIM1zXMQJjJvC0EULnI7P04n sBPi/LVsSBovnhBuiaK42nSZQzFAJ7FKzv3+yizl56UjYKkI/OlYDzU44j6klsLTNgBM ucXTKTiiH3GKQgpQN4SZ/VdS2V9xLl8fnWxQNVtxt/PlAGtbtN9P0UDzboQuzQPjI13O HTHHJF9MWBFEIHuW63+kKm1Cuh004wFFYirohKJaX5on9D30R890dE7JcITnL/j7tlIG Hzlj4oqFE0v89SEJxqGHON5cpJTzeGjmULMbn/daLBZF40sxkusTX2zOuvpJMg1ju+4L Pf8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EiW8oABvX+S8LxzEW+crpBOtWDif09xU+Wgz4oC8RRc=; b=n9KM8JIr87jaIXH1fM3WDdDv3/sGGNOWzKQSKh0Gy6gXfMftDDjmFbW+lvcEYPRqRl qa8iDQz/tYtZCz7LcCH3yHajGcgwrIDIGRV0b0We948/KJWXYH1hyhXC/ouLpCfpGI1g HUBN4qbEGm2Q5+r/cj92LfsPNXjnAd+rtIfK8svVMMGOiK7yzS8T15ITKnE9SbbkVcuD LyWfDv0QO/Of+jFLgkgoLCOFhQWdUunHmBBjwxteIeWMJP/MUnADQdb1qhM0QsaxE+Rj iRfA553WWbs/iQ5FK8ygneUa22AleymO04adpA6F8xSZITpZ6SAEDFVkiFKw+9IKC3Nu WSJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLPY/Th3SWl3a/TcLO0SS5STBMB210to5bHgRq4MfrYLAsOKf9rbH6b5UHBxg+GuoTWITDRA/oihOKwLg== X-Received: by 10.202.8.197 with SMTP id 188mr15999996oii.22.1485875296252; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.21.1 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> From: Ram Krishnan Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:15 -0800 Message-ID: To: Stewart Bryant Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c13057236bc3a0547654d47 Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:08:18 -0000 --94eb2c13057236bc3a0547654d47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Good discussion. IPPM is another relevant WG group since this work has direct impact on performance measurement. Thanks, Ramki On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > > > > > While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly mention > that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs (list them!) > as needed. > > > Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly > interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes. > > - Stewart > > > _______________________________________________ > Ioam mailing list > Ioam@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam > > -- Thanks, Ramki --94eb2c13057236bc3a0547654d47 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good discussion. IPPM is another relevant WG group since thi= s work has direct impact on performance measurement.

Thanks,
= Ramki

On Tue= , Jan 31, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com= > wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 31/01/2017 13:56= , Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote:
=20 =20 =20 =20 =20

=C2=A0

While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs (list them!) as needed.


Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.

- Stewart


_______________________________________________
Ioam mailing list
Ioam@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam




--
= Thanks,=C2=A0
Ramki
--94eb2c13057236bc3a0547654d47-- From nobody Tue Jan 31 07:34:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE511294FC for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:34:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6m8eUCq5ilz for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04C371294EC for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D2F5E1234 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:34:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1485876857; bh=YHjXWkwImhUu2n7vpL9qZ6z4HmHwaAfsdnHD6BzHd0Q=; h=Subject:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=qmes5U7V0rEbzWfJt33VzxuyHGBJb5T9vru1yHXlHU2/PuorkWORy0fQCCm0RYyz4 vfl0hmb0XTWC/qcwcdHMAw3igxNrb5i+R/eQYeu6ncaKAAYTON2JEEAGRksr4+G4+l CNivSym7fLOXGhK6He0458Xaal8xT5fwY+wnhr1c= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DFE25E1230 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:34:17 -0800 (PST) References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:34:16 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:34:18 -0000 I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now that there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to ask it here. The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting. However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism whose close relatives have failed before. Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as record route have ended up ineffective at best? Yours, Joel From nobody Tue Jan 31 07:42:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DED129991 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSJljpamsAQQ for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wj0-x22d.google.com (mail-wj0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D73A6129989 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wj0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id la6so6243727wjc.0 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kO5OV1ySzmDpEm3K56QhdfZ7VSBbWaEyltrNimbNbrA=; b=KUadpuZWfiS5to8dUyv3GcufzXPj2Dw4LAGM078rnV6g1dVz6cGZLTJbweNk38m0CR WPh5AHNGpPVgw8WIMwHezlEDR5B7pVC+KmHHvbufgPttCzPFdtCYZW88z252B4ERT8it cO+JzQer9xvCE0FV5NwWb1M46CxT7cM4Bp7X/9VLa4a3HN71e3jybbKyVSsMo4Jz+RTS 7q+g6cuIr4g40BXg5fKy6+4NplXLDzA7XvpRYMO7V5Jquqef1V8txS1XIglJIs8X1HuJ Np8BT6ijGcvqZ3lqHVD/IuRAWS+jgmdUwY/3X++t9bN3zC4+IrsD+B3lw/IaD7O2Oj0N dtXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kO5OV1ySzmDpEm3K56QhdfZ7VSBbWaEyltrNimbNbrA=; b=kc8Vnexlr1bV9h5UKssnkD5YAgB/kLaH8A1bbAY4VxqnQj1RwH+/0S/6TLGK1hVTDb yOlTc55bl/wUNLS+Tshnumzd5A9mrr2fhzPHhnY+6jaKBvRnaYMSB5+ykEh9SV00lT5t Gl2fFpJP0Y8D9eS6sF+TPm+X4JXmB0rP+LKr4AibIL5EdTvc641Mr2XS/cpVbgkMJxoy nxP84h1CRdeNFHLccgF6MoApA8iSb+BdVvRHSZ7V9/QYPWJUFKLSMsoGpgkKpuvny/X1 k7Ckcf6F6OJJ29U7T8LtlLAWNJK6CjtEXbgcdDb3nsIIx1LlzCs8ejzPUHy40SuIbj1Y mziQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJfKzoTVyCQXxxbP5+o7L+y9hnFD/1vQKb2C0TEmh7YmnRmYhmy5bdX8ONVWim0vQ== X-Received: by 10.223.165.87 with SMTP id j23mr29420506wrb.79.1485877365985; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b87sm24545246wmi.0.2017.01.31.07.42.45 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:42:45 -0800 (PST) References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> To: "Ioam@ietf.org" From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <3283a14d-260e-a6b3-6c04-22ce98d98cc4@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:42:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:42:49 -0000 On 31/01/2017 15:34, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now > that there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to > ask it here. > > The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting. > However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism > whose close relatives have failed before. > > Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as > record route have ended up ineffective at best? I also wonder whether applications that care that much about the detail of the path shouldn't be using SR to force the path. Indeed I wonder whether SR couldn't help with the recoding of transit, at least in the V6 case where each segment identifier could be replaced with an opaque token of transit as the packet passed through that intermediate node. Stewart From nobody Tue Jan 31 08:35:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EE3129528 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:35:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tF30VY5BlT1Q for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 277BB129504 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CZU27132; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:25:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.202) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:25:20 +0000 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.133]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:25:15 -0800 From: Linda Dunbar To: Ram Krishnan , Stewart Bryant Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAApH8iAAAax7oAAARJ7gAABbC+AAA4Z4hA= Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:25:14 +0000 Message-ID: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.184] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71SJCEML702CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.5890BA71.031E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.133, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 3dc851291fd1b5818fe647385c686b13 Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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2017 11:48:46 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:48:46 -0600 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: Linda Dunbar , Ram Krishnan , Stewart Bryant Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAAk7uaA///hvYCAAFxmgIAAC2GAgAAVgwCAAE7QoA== Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:48:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.213.95] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_eff192137c6d4c2bab68143ca1d347e6XCHRCD008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "Ioam@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:48:50 -0000 --_000_eff192137c6d4c2bab68143ca1d347e6XCHRCD008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R29vZCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLiBUaGUgZHJhZnQgY2hhcnRlciBhbHJlYWR5IG1lbnRpb25zIHRoZSBu ZWVkIHRvIHdvcmsgd2l0aCBvdGhlciB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwcywgZXNwZWNpYWxseSB3aGVuIGl0 IGNvbWVzIHRvIGRlZmluaW5nIGhvdyBpbi1zaXR1IE9BTSBkYXRhIHJlY29yZHMgd291bGQgYmUg Y2FycmllZC4gVGhhdCB3b3JrIHdvdWxkIG5hdHVyYWxseSBiZSBkb25lIGJ5IDZtYW4sIE5TSCwg ZXRjLiByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgbmV3IElPQU0gd29ya2luZyBncm91cCAo4oCcSW4tc2l0dSBP 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xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:56:11 -0600 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: Linda Dunbar , "Ioam@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAAnLDgQ Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:56:11 +0000 Message-ID: <921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.213.95] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4XCHRCD008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:56:16 -0000 --_000_921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4XCHRCD008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda, please see inline (...FB) From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com] Sent: Dienstag, 31. Januar 2017 00:11 To: Ioam@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) Subject: Questions to IOAM proposed charter Frank: The first sentence of the proposed charter says: In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets = and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along wit= hin data packets So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthet= ic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encod= ed into the user data packets. Correct? ...FB: Yes, partially. Key qualities of "in-situ OAM" is that the OAM data-= records are carried within the user-traffic, that in-situ OAM applies to a = specific domain, and that nodes within the domain might update the in-situ = OAM data-records as the traffic traverses the network. There are several mo= re attributes of in-situ OAM, which is why the scope statement of the propo= sed IOAM WG a bit long. Does it mean "Telemetry information that doesn't have user payload" is out = of the scope? ...FB: Given that we're still in the process of defining the scope, let me = turn the question back to you: Should it be included? Thanks, Frank Thanks, Linda Dunbar From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" > ________________________________ Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG = mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a= dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y= ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t= hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so= that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p= rogress. We appreciate your thoughts and comments. Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos IOAM working group charter In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo= ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat= a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced= ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav= ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg= er, and export the embedded telemetry information. The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification = information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela= y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ = OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace. * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i= n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case of live traffic a c= lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an= d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur= e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe. * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a= specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove= d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. = Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha= ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-= situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain. * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them = independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM = will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN= -GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware= dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in = case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor= ds could be present in every transport protocol layer. The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo= r in-situ OAM. * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d= ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi= ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the= associated data packets). In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th= e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) = in consultation with the IOAM working group documents. Milestones April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG. March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure= s document. Huawei USA IP Technology Lab 5340 Legacy Drive, Plano, TX 75024 Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840 Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900 --_000_921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4XCHRCD008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Linda,

 

please see inline (...FB)

 

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Dienstag, 31. Januar 2017 00:11
To: Ioam@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com= >
Subject: Questions to IOAM proposed charter

 

Frank: =

The fir= st sentence of the proposed charter says:

In-s= itu OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and = flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets

 

So the = key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthetic data= packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encoded into= the user data packets. Correct?

&n= bsp;

…= FB: Yes, partially. Key qualities of “in-situ OAM” is that the = OAM data-records are carried within the user-traffic, that in-situ OAM appl= ies to a specific domain, and that nodes within the domain might update the in-situ OAM data-records as the traffic traverses the net= work. There are several more attributes of in-situ OAM, which is why the sc= ope statement of the proposed IOAM WG a bit long.

&n= bsp;

Does it= mean “Telemetry information that doesn’t have user payloadR= 21; is out of the scope?

&n= bsp;

…= FB: Given that we’re still in the process of defining the scope, let = me turn the question back to you: Should it be included?

&n= bsp;

Thanks,= Frank

&n= bsp;

Thanks,= Linda Dunbar

 

 

From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne at cisco.com><= o:p>


 

Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM o= n the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to progre= ss normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of = a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. T= he scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quic= k progress.

 

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

 

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos

 

 

IOAM working group charter

In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data pa= ckets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define= data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanis= ms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as pro= cedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. 

 

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:<= o:p>

 

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path = verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, = application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an= in-situ OAM namespace.

* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-= records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset of li= ve traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-= records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data= records to the source of the probe.

*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations= are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by= nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challe= nges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path = MTU and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.

*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a wa= y that makes them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport= protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.

* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane= and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.

* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protoc= ols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transpor= t protocol layer.

 

 

 

The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:

* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and = namespaces for in-situ OAM.

* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will= perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and expor= ting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).

In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of t= ransports. The transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working g= roup documents.

 

 

Milestones

 

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures docu= ment to IESG.

March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures do= cument.

April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associa= ted procedures document.

 

 

H= uawei USA IP Technology Lab

5= 340 Legacy Drive,

P= lano, TX 75024

T= el: +1 469-277 - 5840

F= ax: +1 469 -277 - 5900

 

--_000_921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4XCHRCD008ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Jan 31 11:48:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2436D129586 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:48:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oKMHA2NSNjC2 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:48:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net [194.109.24.22]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F3DA1293F9 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from Macintosh-4.fritz.box ([IPv6:2001:981:602b:1:5056:61bb:98cb:fac5]) by smtp-cloud3.xs4all.net with ESMTP id f7op1u00K5RDqfw017oreu; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:48:52 +0100 To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , "ioam@ietf.org" References: <568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: <539dc382-6411-deed-ee8e-f7f66c5fb292@bwijnen.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:48:49 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" , Tal Mizrahi , "Shwetha Bhandari \(shwethab\)" , joel jaeggli , "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" , "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:48:56 -0000 inline On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote: > > IOAM working group charter > > In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is > embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, > including mechanisms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, > trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. > > The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: > > * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), > timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined > using an in-situ OAM namespace. > > * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case > of live traffic a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM > data-records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe. > > * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records > are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various > challenges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is > enabled in an in-situ OAM domain. > > * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them independent from the transport protocol used. > Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, > Geneve. > Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all experimental or informational !!?? Correct me if I am wrong. NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ?? Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism. So are other tunneling protocols excluded? Would it be better to use generic "tunneling protocols" ?? Bert > > * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. > > * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, > in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer. > > The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: > > * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for in-situ OAM. > > * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., > introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the associated data packets). > > In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. The transports are expected to be defined in the > respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working group documents. > > Milestones > > April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG. > > March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. > > April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedures document. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ioam mailing list > Ioam@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam From nobody Tue Jan 31 13:48:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A96C129545 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2vVEHSkgL_Aa for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x229.google.com (mail-yb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 544B91294A5 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x229.google.com with SMTP id o65so46476015ybo.2 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6+33UM/6pm4IkVRCloRGewXpSr3dwlx3i4zXb3FWmBo=; b=lFJ5OZzeiOkRom8lVTqOopCvyi3WIpuQGad5nmKFne27uAKsvFXW7AwLAS43IzIHQ7 C9r2kRDoga3F7ELNwUd4aNfcER7ewDekX5IcQGgNwIaWB3oKT5Jb+Bpa0Gt+/2Z5Ew5u 0ZuXTNkbdVelgBAGHapi4R8V4sdc5CYgAIrPDrc/0TUg3lfwg2lROY1l+RnP1tBanOs1 5caBd0mofL8neMPL4YBanOU3rLEwEeb3fIdSzQC6+u0N0sPNni/AlH+y4C9jZDal6Hb/ BDc6gi9AXFIfeDsfRnPD0xh/Txxwp/RrK26LHZwXvjURtFC+bnOXuQIoB7r7BjgqPY6r LqJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6+33UM/6pm4IkVRCloRGewXpSr3dwlx3i4zXb3FWmBo=; b=i+eUUGGq9gfFJ+SjegGEiZCZd3HQzz8n5V6iib+Gbct2XwakgnXyrQ5vQoU8l3pyof JwUcs086Ub+t6++mU7VLQxCNOL4kZRXiim549GgIHHiXmlSLHXbURN9f2tEUkj0RbLwb glaChVD7snCuMXAY6LpRYULmEUFuQ/fjit88bvDzNIVLP1XfZkXtVjrb3yKq2ZFspA7o Rb6DHl31KwWa7Z+KSHIzjvaLt0SnAeeiMDSK7IF9hj3hPd7yNuSkyyeevMcV6OOsZgxm 789EmoioHRcec+fpR7n/UAllu1mCPi2I3kG8L65cmhyyL9AJzU3ImQX99kFiuE0pNp4H iUbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXISnQwEufHkvgpR2Tm2vOENbDMODW0dAx5cm8KOL13M8OJQjcrlXVkZl8y1Q43NK0deTbEfv6ZIwZvR2A== X-Received: by 10.129.40.9 with SMTP id o9mr19043179ywo.106.1485899285441; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.50.2 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:48:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <539dc382-6411-deed-ee8e-f7f66c5fb292@bwijnen.net> References: <568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> <539dc382-6411-deed-ee8e-f7f66c5fb292@bwijnen.net> From: Alia Atlas Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:48:05 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140973e14b83105476ae318 Archived-At: Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" , "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" , Tal Mizrahi , "Shwetha Bhandari \(shwethab\)" , joel jaeggli , "ioam@ietf.org" , "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" , "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:48:08 -0000 --001a1140973e14b83105476ae318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: > inline > On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote: > >> >> IOAM working group charter >> >> In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and >> flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within >> data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated >> procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and >> path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, >> configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information. >> >> The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components: >> >> * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path >> verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, >> transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined >> metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM >> namespace. >> >> * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for >> in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing. In case of live traffic a >> classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal >> and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing >> procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe. >> >> * Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for >> a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and >> removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM >> domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and >> error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling >> when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain. >> >> * Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes >> them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ >> OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, >> VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. >> >> Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all > experimental or informational !!?? > Correct me if I am wrong. > LISP is chartered to produce standards track documents now. > NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ?? > No - it's coming from SFC and is "transport-agnostic" so it can run inside anything from UDP to MPLS to Ethernet. The details of which transports are likely hasn't really been discussed. > Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism. > Both Geneve and VXLAN-GPE, as currently described in NVO3, are unlikely to progress to be published as standards track documents. NVO3 currently has a design team that is coming up with a merged solution that is intended to progress. Obviously, a charter needs to consider carefully what work is intended as standards track. > So are other tunneling protocols excluded? > > Would it be better to use generic "tunneling protocols" ?? > It's likely and possible that there may be differences - both in terms of what data-records might be carried and in terms of how the packets are carried. I don't think an open charter that supports any tunneling protocol is likely to be beneficial for focus. Regards, Alia > Bert > >> >> * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and >> hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM. >> >> * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. >> in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM >> data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer. >> >> The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish: >> >> * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces >> for in-situ OAM. >> >> * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on >> data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, >> removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information >> from the associated data packets). >> >> In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. >> The transports are expected to be defined in the respective working >> group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working group documents. >> >> Milestones >> >> April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to >> IESG. >> >> March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document. >> >> April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated >> procedures document. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ioam mailing list >> Ioam@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ioam mailing list > Ioam@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam > --001a1140973e14b83105476ae318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) &= lt;bwietf@bwijnen.n= et> wrote:
inline
On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:

IOAM working group charter

In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo= ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat= a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced= ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav= ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg= er, and export the embedded telemetry information.

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification = information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela= y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ = OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.

* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i= n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.=C2=A0 In case of live traffi= c a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, remov= al and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing pro= cedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
*=C2=A0 Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined = for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and r= emoved at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM dom= ain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and err= or handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling whe= n in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.

*=C2=A0 Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes = them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ= OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, = VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.

Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all experim= ental or informational !!??
Correct me if I am wrong.

LISP is chart= ered to produce standards track documents now.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ??
=
No - it's coming from SFC and is "transport-agnosti= c" so it can run inside anything from UDP to MPLS to Ethernet.=C2=A0 T= he details of which transports are likely hasn't really been discussed.= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism.

<= div>Both Geneve and VXLAN-GPE, as currently described in NVO3, are unlikely= to progress to be published
as standards track documents.=C2=A0 = NVO3 currently has a design team that is coming up with a merged solution
that is intended to progress.=C2=A0 Obviously, a charter needs to = consider carefully what work is intended as standards track.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
So are other tunneling protocols excluded?

Would it be better to use generic "tunneling protocols" ??

It's likely and possible that there may b= e differences - both in terms of what data-records might be carried and in = terms of how the packets are carried.=C2=A0 I don't think an open chart= er that supports any tunneling protocol is likely to be beneficial for focu= s.

Regards,
Alia=C2=A0

=C2=A0
Bert

* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware= dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.

* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in = case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor= ds could be present in every transport protocol layer.

The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:

* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo= r in-situ OAM.

* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d= ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi= ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the= associated data packets).

In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th= e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) = in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.

Milestones

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.=

March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.

April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure= s document.



_______________________________________________
Ioam mailing list
Ioam@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam


_______________________________________________
Ioam mailing list
Ioam@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam

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22:26:59 -0500 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Linda Dunbar Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for In-Situ OAM drafts Thread-Index: AQHSezTO2Z3m8d6BQk+agt6tUV2LwqFR4BqAgAHzZAA= Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:26:58 +0000 Message-ID: <315C1E75-9317-44B6-8C7C-1A945941A449@cisco.com> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239563@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239563@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.238.206] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_315C1E75931744B68C7C1A945941A449ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" , "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Bert Wijnen \(IETF\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for In-Situ OAM drafts X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:27:03 -0000 --_000_315C1E75931744B68C7C1A945941A449ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIExpbmRhLA0KDQpNb3ZpbmcgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gdG8gSW9hbUBpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWls dG86SW9hbUBpZXRmLm9yZz4sIG90aGVyIGFsaWFzZXMgdG8gQmNjLg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc2VlIGlu bGluZS4NCg0K4oCUDQpDYXJsb3MgUGlnbmF0YXJvLCBjYXJsb3NAY2lzY28uY29tPG1haWx0bzpj YXJsb3NAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KDQrigJxTb21ldGltZXMgSSB1c2UgYmlnIHdvcmRzIHRoYXQgSSBk byBub3QgZnVsbHkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCwgdG8gbWFrZSBteXNlbGYgc291bmQgbW9yZSBwaG90b3N5 bnRoZXNpcy4iDQoNCk9uIEphbiAzMCwgMjAxNywgYXQgNDozOSBQTSwgTGluZGEgRHVuYmFyIDxs aW5kYS5kdW5iYXJAaHVhd2VpLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86bGluZGEuZHVuYmFyQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+PiB3 cm90ZToNCg0KQWx2YXJvLA0KDQpJdCBpcyBncmVhdCB0byBzZWUgYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgYmVp bmcgY3JlYXRlZCBmb3IgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBwYXJ0aWVzIHRvIGRpc2N1c3MuDQoNClF1ZXN0aW9u 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Halpern" Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work Thread-Index: AQHSe9eDMSkFUaPvRkC++9tavqlEH6FT1RcA Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:37:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.238.206] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:37:18 -0000 SGksIEpvZWwsDQoNCj4gT24gSmFuIDMxLCAyMDE3LCBhdCAxMDozNCBBTSwgSm9lbCBNLiBIYWxw ZXJuIDxqbWhAam9lbGhhbHBlcm4uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEkgYmVsaWV2ZSBJIHNlbnQg dGhpcyBxdWVzdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGF1dGhvcnMsIGJ1dCBub3cgdGhhdCB0 aGVyZSBpcyBhIGRlZGljYXRlZCBsaXN0IGZvciB0aGUgdG9waWMsIGl0IHNlZW1zIGFwcHJvcHJp YXRlIHRvIGFzayBpdCBoZXJlLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIEluLVNpdHUgT0FNIFdvcmsgbG9va3MgaW50 ZXJlc3RpbmcuDQoNCkluZGVlZC4gVGhhbmtzLg0KDQo+IEhvd2V2ZXIsIGl0IGFsc28gbG9va3Mg bGlrZSBhIG5ldyBhdHRlbXB0IHRvIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplIGEgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHdob3NlIGNsb3Nl IHJlbGF0aXZlcyBoYXZlIGZhaWxlZCBiZWZvcmUuDQo+IA0KPiBXaHkgc2hvdWxkIHdlIGV4cGVj dCBJbi1TaXR1IE9BTSB0byB3b3JrIHdoZW4gZWFybGllciBlZmZvcnRzIHN1Y2ggYXMgcmVjb3Jk IHJvdXRlIGhhdmUgZW5kZWQgdXAgaW5lZmZlY3RpdmUgYXQgYmVzdD8NCj4gDQoNClRoYXQgc3Rh dGVtZW50IGFuZCBxdWVzdGlvbiwgYXMgcGhyYXNlZCwgc2VlbSB0byBib3RoIG92ZXJnZW5lcmFs aXplIGFuZCBvdmVyc2ltcGxpZnkuDQoNCkVmZm9ydHMgbGlrZSByZWNvcmQgcm91dGUgZGlkIG5v dCBoYXZlIHRoZSBzYW1lIG9iamVjdGl2ZSBhcyBJbi1zaXR1IE9BTSBkb2VzLiBDb25zZXF1ZW50 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Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAAi1nSAAAax74AAARJ7gAABbC+AAAKwSQAAF84ggA== Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:46:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F659239C71@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.238.206] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D709FFE0D7544E5E85E4421348C7DF72ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Stewart Bryant , "Ioam@ietf.org" , Ram Krishnan , "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" , "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter 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(xch-rtp-007.cisco.com [64.101.220.147]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v113sT73006070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:54:29 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-007.cisco.com (64.101.220.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:54:28 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 22:54:28 -0500 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Stewart Bryant Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAAi1nSAACPy9YA= Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:54:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3CAFD624-5DB6-4BB3-A770-D3F811175A34@cisco.com> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.238.206] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <27C660B97CC3DE4E967C80BEFAE4DBCC@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" , "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:54:46 -0000 U3Rld2FydCwNCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBpbmxpbmUuDQoNCuKAlA0KQ2FybG9zIFBpZ25hdGFybywg Y2FybG9zQGNpc2NvLmNvbQ0KDQrigJxTb21ldGltZXMgSSB1c2UgYmlnIHdvcmRzIHRoYXQgSSBk byBub3QgZnVsbHkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCwgdG8gbWFrZSBteXNlbGYgc291bmQgbW9yZSBwaG90b3N5 bnRoZXNpcy4iDQoNCj4gT24gSmFuIDMxLCAyMDE3LCBhdCA1OjQ1IEFNLCBTdGV3YXJ0IEJyeWFu 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mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45AD144715B; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:31:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1485923489; bh=uIGhJn3WROPo9xmdHpP8TYhUzm5ClEUfZT6vNkXWKlU=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=eEi/C/n0/lWkxpQ+B4ma5yAULi/9h8+jUSA+EffF8+omvaZ1PNEBo6EpfYoHnVw6d ry50SAgdqAY08jqnReHPRR4BmI92ttJkR1rqVXyMUgWcdfnFRI0PqfbPKDZVJwqNSZ zudAB64l2LfyJeYmBiYRi3m3brrQ8Ckr5ke3D7R8= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0F891C0126; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:31:28 -0800 (PST) To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <2be157fc-c3f0-b853-5d25-0b3d6c664571@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:31:27 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion on In-Situ OAM List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 04:31:31 -0000 Your comment about fast-path processing seems almost as over-generalized as my question. Can some hardware process some potential in-situ messages in the fast path? Of course. Is there likely to be hardware that can process all possible in-situ messages in the fast path? Seem unlikely. Can existing hardware that handles some of these tunnels handle in-situ in the fast path? Probably not. Can we define a useful sdt of in-situ functions that can be processed efficiently, can avoid giving out inappropriate information to external parties, and are useful? Probably. But unless we are explicit about the constraints we will not achieve that. As an example, some of the in-situ proposals have called for each device in the path to add information to the packet, expanding the packet. While it is theoretically possible to do that in a fast path, it usually does not work out. Separately, you and I may have seen different things. The usage I saw people wanting for record-route was to get what we eventually delivered in a messier fashion with traceroute. I will agree that the need to slow-path the packets is a significant contributor to the failure. Yours, Joel On 1/31/17 10:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote: > Hi, Joel, > >> On Jan 31, 2017, at 10:34 AM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> >> I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now that there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to ask it here. >> >> The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting. > > Indeed. Thanks. > >> However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism whose close relatives have failed before. >> >> Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as record route have ended up ineffective at best? >> > > That statement and question, as phrased, seem to both overgeneralize and oversimplify. > > Efforts like record route did not have the same objective as In-situ OAM does. Consequently, success / effectiveness of those different goals is measured under different and incomparable bars. > > Here’s a fundamental difference: I have used first-hand Record Route in real large-scale provider network troubleshooting — but only to force a packet to be process-switched to differentiate from a fast path and debug. However, it is not hard to see how dataplane technology and silicon improved since the 1981 from RFC 791, and how that’s no longer the case necessarily. > > Today’s data path can fast-switch with these features, in a way that the penalty is less than a traditional tunneling encapsulation. > > Net-net, 1981’s record route seems to be not a useful comparison, certainly not anything to correlate effectiveness with. > > Thanks! > > — Carlos. > >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ioam mailing list >> Ioam@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam > > _______________________________________________ > Ioam mailing list > Ioam@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam > From nobody Tue Jan 31 20:47:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ioam@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F807129CA5 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vW6Gp7lhaGlk for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD53D129A5F for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:46:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5942; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1485924419; x=1487134019; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=x6pHP2LRpGxxd2sGqECePlUBx2q2s/XTyfxp+8IQUyk=; b=U/rRkrZeGeDhgoS4oqEe7arLG1NP9rgZXNdnfLBe2s8bE8BqXjO7kVGe 4hA8hm1zv1t6hx4xItgUs/1KdXOCFdTbiY6d7M6WyRS+GKVoDOPItoI5h 4U2w9YNj8KuhnxSBAJro68M/zw7lMete+D/X9VhBZZ+07Kzvb2cI77ND1 Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A/AQDnZpFY/5hdJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1NhgQkHg1CKCZIHlTOCDR8LgkKDNgIagh4/GAECAQEBAQEBAWI?= =?us-ascii?q?ohGkBAQEDAQEBIRE6CwULAgEIGAICJgICAiULFRACBA4FG4lLCA6sKYIlizIBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYELhUCCBYJqhEyDBi6CMQWIfId+hEmGFgG?= =?us-ascii?q?EUo0wkHuSfwEfOIFLFTsQAYQtHIFhdYcRgQwBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,318,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="200877282" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Feb 2017 04:46:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com (xch-rtp-020.cisco.com [64.101.220.160]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v114kwxJ009759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Feb 2017 04:46:58 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:46:57 -0500 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:46:57 -0500 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "Joel M. Halpern" Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work Thread-Index: AQHSe9eDMSkFUaPvRkC++9tavqlEH6FT1RcAgAAPJoCAAARUgA== Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 04:46:57 +0000 Message-ID: <2D222552-AAB0-40E7-81A3-CC46A3830252@cisco.com> References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com> <2be157fc-c3f0-b853-5d25-0b3d6c664571@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <2be157fc-c3f0-b853-5d25-0b3d6c664571@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.238.206] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5E505D9D5F4B314AA96B50E8EDDEC8FF@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work X-BeenThere: ioam@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: 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