From SRS0=MDQO=FP=darou.fr=pierre.pfister@bounces.m4x.org Mon May 4 07:33:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFBC1A00FA for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 07:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pRSPliT1CCUx for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 07:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C7991A1A69 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 07:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.148.10.49] (unknown [173.38.220.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A9901408EFA8 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:33:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Pierre Pfister Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_11B96158-24A1-4A39-9E88-251EA864FA61" Subject: draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 16:33:25 +0200 To: 6man WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Mon May 4 16:33:29 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 14:33:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_11B96158-24A1-4A39-9E88-251EA864FA61 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everyone, In order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next iteration right, I would = like to get a sense of the WG concerning two comments I got after the = presentation in Dallas. These are not big issues in general, but I would rather have opinions = now than awkward comments and endless iterations later. 1. Define a type D host. RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It would perfectly make sense to = define type D hosts (For those hosts that are able to handle Source = Address Dependent Routing Information Option - SADRIO). So, the question is: Should we refer to those hosts as ... ? a. "Hosts implementing this specification" b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be properly defined early in the = document) I personally have no strong preference. 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix = fields. As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. What is your favorite ? a. RA compression: Source and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits boundaries. This minimizes the amount of wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 = wasted bytes per TLV). b. 64 bits Prefix alignment: Source and Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned. This approach wastes between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which = could be reserved for other use). c. 32 bits Prefix alignment: Same idea than b but slightly less wasteful. Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 of which can be reserved for = other). 3. TLV format - Source prefix length position It is possible to either put the Source Prefix length as part of the TLV = header, or in between the source prefix and destination prefix. a. In the TLV header: Cleaner, but breaks first prefix alignment (Or creates 3 or 7 = reserved bytes). b. Between the first and second prefix: A bit ugly, but simpler to implement, and less wasteful. Note that this approach changes the wasted bytes values given = in previous question (2.) =20 =20 Currently, my favorite format is the following: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Type | Length | Dst Length |Resvd|Prf|Resvd| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Route Lifetime | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Destination Prefix (Variable Length) | . . . . +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Src Length | Source Prefix (Variable Length) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ . . . +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =20 Note: The source length is placed at the next 8bits boundary after = Destination Prefix. It can have any alignment depending on the destination prefix = length. Pros: It ensures Destination Prefix alignment. It uses the same format as the RIO for first fields and hence greatly = simplifies implementation upgrade. It compresses the TLV as much as possible. Cons: No Source Prefix alignment. Src Length is right in the middle of the TLV. Thanks, - Pierre --Apple-Mail=_11B96158-24A1-4A39-9E88-251EA864FA61 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello everyone,

In = order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next iteration right, I would = like to get a sense of the WG concerning two comments I got after the = presentation in Dallas.

These are not big = issues in general, but I would rather have opinions now than awkward = comments and endless iterations = later.


1. Define a type D = host.

RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It = would perfectly make sense to define type D hosts (For those hosts that = are able to handle Source Address Dependent Routing Information Option - = SADRIO).

So, the question is: Should we refer = to those hosts as ... ?
  a. "Hosts implementing this = specification"
  b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be = properly defined early in the document)

I = personally have no strong preference.

2. TLV = format - Prefix alignment

The draft defines one = new TLV containing two variable length prefix fields.
As a = reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits = boundaries.

What is your favorite = ?
  a. RA compression:
    =  Source and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits = boundaries.
This minimizes the amount of = wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 wasted bytes per TLV).
  b. = 64 bits Prefix alignment:
     Source and = Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned.
This = approach wastes between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which could be = reserved for other use).
  c. 32 bits Prefix = alignment:
     Same idea than b but slightly = less wasteful.
Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 = of which can be reserved for = other).


3. TLV format - Source = prefix length position

It is possible to either = put the Source Prefix length as part of the TLV header, or in between = the source prefix and destination = prefix.

  a. In the TLV = header:
     Cleaner, but breaks first prefix = alignment (Or creates 3 or 7 reserved bytes).
  b. = Between the first and second prefix:
     A bit = ugly, but simpler to implement, and less wasteful.
Note = that this approach changes the wasted bytes values given in previous = question (2.)
 
=  
Currently, my favorite format is the = following:

   0           =         1             =       2               =     3
   0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |     Type =      |    Length     |   Dst = Length  |Resvd|Prf|Resvd|
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |     =                   =  Route Lifetime               =           |
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |     =           Destination Prefix (Variable Length) =            |
   .           =                     =                     =             .
   .           =                     =                     =             .
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Src Length =   |     Source Prefix (Variable Length)     =       |
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+               =                     =             .
   .           =                     =                     =             .
  =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   
Note: The source length is placed = at the next 8bits boundary after Destination Prefix.
  =     It can have any alignment depending on the destination = prefix length.

Pros:
It ensures = Destination Prefix alignment.
It uses the same format as the = RIO for first fields and hence greatly simplifies implementation = upgrade.
It compresses the TLV as much as = possible.

Cons:
No Source Prefix = alignment.
Src Length is right in the middle of the = TLV.



Thanks,
<= div>
- Pierre

= --Apple-Mail=_11B96158-24A1-4A39-9E88-251EA864FA61-- From nobody Mon May 4 08:43:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59B61A1E0E for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_66=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t0Y2HqNr1eAN for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.sealand.io (mx.sealand.io [193.160.39.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F59F1A8726 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:70a7:10:91b7:7ac1:680d:216d] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:70a7:10:91b7:7ac1:680d:216d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.sealand.io (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 957A260D0A; Mon, 4 May 2015 17:43:08 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Subject: Re: draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: =?utf-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 17:43:07 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Pierre Pfister X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: 6man WG X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 15:43:15 -0000 Hi Pierre, > What is your favorite ? > b. 64 bits Prefix alignment: This one. > Cons: > No Source Prefix alignment. > Src Length is right in the middle of the TLV. In my opinion, the cons overweight the pros here. It looks unclean and = is not implementation-friendly. I would opt for the =E2=80=9Cmore = wasteful=E2=80=9D but clearer design. We thought about that a little and came up with this: =20 > Fields containing prefixes or addresses or lists of such MUST be > sized using a multiple of 16 octets. For example, such a field > SHOULD NOT be specified of length smaller than sizeof(struct > in6_addr). Otherwise implementations may be forced to fill the = field > using inet_pton() or define it to be of variable length, which is > strongly discouraged. Source: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-6man-ra-guidelines-00#section-5= .5 Cheers, Dan From nobody Mon May 4 09:34:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69521A8F4C for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A3RPzoJ9tL7w for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38F9C1A8F45 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id t44GYhWM000428 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:34:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 962E620477B for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:36:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7D820474E for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:36:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id t44GYfd0017593 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 18:34:43 +0200 Message-ID: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 16:34:47 -0000 Le 04/05/2015 16:33, Pierre Pfister a crit : > Hello everyone, > > In order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next iteration right, I would > like to get a sense of the WG concerning two comments I got after the > presentation in Dallas. > > These are not big issues in general, but I would rather have opinions > now than awkward comments and endless iterations later. > > > 1. Define a type D host. > > RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It would perfectly make sense to > define type D hosts (For those hosts that are able to handle Source > Address Dependent Routing Information Option - SADRIO). > > So, the question is: Should we refer to those hosts as ... ? > a. "Hosts implementing this specification" > b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be properly defined early in the > document) > > I personally have no strong preference. > > 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment > > The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix fields. > As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options (these options are in RFC2460). > What is your favorite ? > a. RA compression: > Source and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits boundaries. > This minimizes the amount of wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 wasted bytes > per TLV). Further compression could be to use arbitrary bit positions, not necessarily on 8bit boundaries. But it depends whether this compression level is needed or not. Often it is a temptation to do smart, although not needed. > b. 64 bits Prefix alignment: > Source and Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned. > This approach wastes between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which could be > reserved for other use). > c. 32 bits Prefix alignment: > Same idea than b but slightly less wasteful. > Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 of which can be reserved for other). > > > 3. TLV format - Source prefix length position > > It is possible to either put the Source Prefix length as part of the TLV > header, or in between the source prefix and destination prefix. > > a. In the TLV header: > Cleaner, but breaks first prefix alignment (Or creates 3 or 7 > reserved bytes). > b. Between the first and second prefix: > A bit ugly, but simpler to implement, and less wasteful. > Note that this approach changes the wasted bytes values given in > previous question (2.) > Currently, my favorite format is the following: > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Type | Length | Dst Length |Resvd|Prf|Resvd| > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Route Lifetime | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Destination Prefix (Variable Length) | > . . > . . > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Src Length | Source Prefix (Variable Length) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ . > . . > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > Note: The source length is placed at the next 8bits boundary after > Destination Prefix. > It can have any alignment depending on the destination prefix length. In the above you would need padding options (Pad1 and PadN of RFC2460). On another hand, I think the easiest for the programmer is to reserve 2 128bit regions for the prefixes, and 2 8bit fields for the plengths, each anchored at fixes places. It is easy to program, and easy to specify. It may waste bandwidth, but maybe it is good to consume bandwith on some smart links which are put down automatically if they are not used enough. On what kinds of links is this technology going to be used? In all cases, one should make sure that prefixlengths other than 64 are not forbidden by design. Alex > > Pros: > It ensures Destination Prefix alignment. > It uses the same format as the RIO for first fields and hence greatly > simplifies implementation upgrade. > It compresses the TLV as much as possible. > > Cons: > No Source Prefix alignment. > Src Length is right in the middle of the TLV. > > > > Thanks, > > - Pierre > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From nobody Mon May 4 14:50:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8201B2CA3 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wiAA-3KS2SrL for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x230.google.com (mail-lb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D39A1B2CA0 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbcga7 with SMTP id ga7so114980433lbc.1 for ; Mon, 04 May 2015 14:50:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4gTgPEGO7ywo2QqeQJUbCLPjQT5QycZNXXJK7T0k44k=; b=h7lWdvzF7i06VI9y5+aWwtvQed7mbpdKLgB9jwJvR+xgcCRb6KkFd7QRfnP9hOYb95 PG0pC4MBzeXMbWaQ3YW+boA/P7y+NyrMs3vb+7Sot5QIJCYLRzA9sGcgJ/Nyucq+9t9S x52dL8LXmHiD1+lOVmtiZWzhq3hqaxm5eMhpv33jOAJrP7TNgmfQDoYgTUN93B6d1Mja bI8d3LM3426/XSkX627UIimDzGR/5Vc9uh98UR6cuK1Om95XTlV66/cifmpFM/UVVNxB eE/Yzm+OShLMpXfFXZiYFL5ZkLMJb3asCJUqKpFlUqXJ51aUhHiIKEhOycWSpbs7vszR YGQw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.35.230 with SMTP id l6mr20952821lbj.5.1430776208372; Mon, 04 May 2015 14:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Mon, 4 May 2015 14:50:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 16:50:08 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Alexandru Petrescu , =?UTF-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= , Pierre PFISTER Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 21:50:15 -0000 Dan, Alex, all, Thanks for the comments. I submitted one solution to SADR problem with Pierre, it is at: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt utilizing the comments given below. Regards, Behcet On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Le 04/05/2015 16:33, Pierre Pfister a =C3=A9crit : >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> In order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next iteration right, I would >> like to get a sense of the WG concerning two comments I got after the >> presentation in Dallas. >> >> These are not big issues in general, but I would rather have opinions >> now than awkward comments and endless iterations later. >> >> >> 1. Define a type D host. >> >> RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It would perfectly make sense to >> define type D hosts (For those hosts that are able to handle Source >> Address Dependent Routing Information Option - SADRIO). >> >> So, the question is: Should we refer to those hosts as ... ? >> a. "Hosts implementing this specification" >> b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be properly defined early in the >> document) >> >> I personally have no strong preference. >> >> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >> >> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix >> fields. >> As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. > > > Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options (thes= e > options are in RFC2460). > >> What is your favorite ? >> a. RA compression: >> Source and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits boundaries= . >> This minimizes the amount of wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 wasted bytes >> per TLV). > > > Further compression could be to use arbitrary bit positions, not necessar= ily > on 8bit boundaries. > > But it depends whether this compression level is needed or not. Often it= is > a temptation to do smart, although not needed. > > >> b. 64 bits Prefix alignment: >> Source and Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned. >> This approach wastes between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which could be >> reserved for other use). >> c. 32 bits Prefix alignment: >> Same idea than b but slightly less wasteful. >> Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 of which can be reserved for other). >> >> >> 3. TLV format - Source prefix length position >> >> It is possible to either put the Source Prefix length as part of the TLV >> header, or in between the source prefix and destination prefix. >> >> a. In the TLV header: >> Cleaner, but breaks first prefix alignment (Or creates 3 or 7 >> reserved bytes). >> b. Between the first and second prefix: >> A bit ugly, but simpler to implement, and less wasteful. >> Note that this approach changes the wasted bytes values given in >> previous question (2.) >> Currently, my favorite format is the following: >> >> 0 1 2 3 >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Type | Length | Dst Length |Resvd|Prf|Resvd| >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Route Lifetime | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Destination Prefix (Variable Length) | >> . . >> . . >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> | Src Length | Source Prefix (Variable Length) | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ . >> . . >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> Note: The source length is placed at the next 8bits boundary after >> Destination Prefix. >> It can have any alignment depending on the destination prefix >> length. > > > In the above you would need padding options (Pad1 and PadN of RFC2460). > > On another hand, I think the easiest for the programmer is to reserve 2 > 128bit regions for the prefixes, and 2 8bit fields for the plengths, each > anchored at fixes places. It is easy to program, and easy to specify. > > It may waste bandwidth, but maybe it is good to consume bandwith on some > smart links which are put down automatically if they are not used enough. > > On what kinds of links is this technology going to be used? > > In all cases, one should make sure that prefixlengths other than 64 are n= ot > forbidden by design. > > Alex > >> >> Pros: >> It ensures Destination Prefix alignment. >> It uses the same format as the RIO for first fields and hence greatly >> simplifies implementation upgrade. >> It compresses the TLV as much as possible. >> >> Cons: >> No Source Prefix alignment. >> Src Length is right in the middle of the TLV. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> - Pierre >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon May 4 15:47:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B829B1A8920 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 15:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FSL_MY_NAME_IS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F-ksVKaIN78o for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 15:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A6021A8940 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 15:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.11] (ip-61.net-82-216-124.rev.numericable.fr [82.216.124.61]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B616140AC447; Tue, 5 May 2015 00:47:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Pierre Pfister Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Important: New Version Notification for draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 00:47:24 +0200 References: <20150504214618.32030.97064.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: 6man WG , Behcet Sarikaya Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Tue May 5 00:47:25 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 22:47:31 -0000 To the working group, Please read this with attention. For some reason, my name is appearing as co-author to that draft. It should not be there. Please note that: - I **did not** give any sort of agreement to be put co-author to this = draft. - This draft does not reflect my personal technical opinions. I am = actually in strong disagreement with some elements. - This draft does not represents the technical opinions of the company I = am working for (There is a single =92S=92 to Systems btw). - My own opinions and suggestions about the very same problem are = described in the following document: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-00 (Opinions have = been requested in a different thread). Sparing you the long story, I therefore ask a new iteration to be = published **without** my name figuring as co-author to the document. Thank you, - Pierre >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra > Revision: 01 > Title: IPv6 RA Options for Source Address Dependent = Routing > Document date: 2015-05-04 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01 > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01 >=20 > Abstract: > This document proposes the router advertisement extensions for = source > address dependent routing. New Router Advertisement option is > defined for configuring route prefixes and their corresponding = source > prefixes on the mobile or fixed nodes. Using this options, an > operator can easily configure nodes with multiple interfaces (or > otherwise multi-homed) to enable them to select the routes to a > destination. The option is defined together with definitions of = host > and router behaviors. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 From nobody Mon May 4 16:00:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B8C1A8999 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSfMrbutkvqt for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 000AD1A897B for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 16:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.42.11] (ip-61.net-82-216-124.rev.numericable.fr [82.216.124.61]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 05FB8140AC448; Tue, 5 May 2015 01:00:43 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6EE2A99B-1EEC-4188-A929-8123C6DAA23D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Pierre Pfister In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 01:00:42 +0200 Message-Id: <3FC08FED-F8AB-4858-8133-4A88058A7728@darou.fr> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> To: sarikaya@ieee.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Tue May 5 01:00:44 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" , Alexandru Petrescu X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 23:00:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6EE2A99B-1EEC-4188-A929-8123C6DAA23D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear all, > I submitted one solution to SADR problem with Pierre, it is at: > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt I did not give my consent to be put as author of the mentioned document. Please see my answer to the new draft notification message for further = details. My own current proposal is detailed here: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-00 Thanks Alex and Dan for the comments so far. - Pierre >=20 >=20 > On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Alexandru Petrescu > wrote: >> Le 04/05/2015 16:33, Pierre Pfister a =E9crit : >>>=20 >>> Hello everyone, >>>=20 >>> In order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next iteration right, I = would >>> like to get a sense of the WG concerning two comments I got after = the >>> presentation in Dallas. >>>=20 >>> These are not big issues in general, but I would rather have = opinions >>> now than awkward comments and endless iterations later. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 1. Define a type D host. >>>=20 >>> RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It would perfectly make sense = to >>> define type D hosts (For those hosts that are able to handle Source >>> Address Dependent Routing Information Option - SADRIO). >>>=20 >>> So, the question is: Should we refer to those hosts as ... ? >>> a. "Hosts implementing this specification" >>> b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be properly defined early in the >>> document) >>>=20 >>> I personally have no strong preference. >>>=20 >>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>>=20 >>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix >>> fields. >>> As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits = boundaries. >>=20 >>=20 >> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options = (these >> options are in RFC2460). >>=20 >>> What is your favorite ? >>> a. RA compression: >>> Source and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits = boundaries. >>> This minimizes the amount of wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 wasted = bytes >>> per TLV). >>=20 >>=20 >> Further compression could be to use arbitrary bit positions, not = necessarily >> on 8bit boundaries. >>=20 >> But it depends whether this compression level is needed or not. = Often it is >> a temptation to do smart, although not needed. >>=20 >>=20 >>> b. 64 bits Prefix alignment: >>> Source and Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned. >>> This approach wastes between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which = could be >>> reserved for other use). >>> c. 32 bits Prefix alignment: >>> Same idea than b but slightly less wasteful. >>> Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 of which can be reserved for other). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 3. TLV format - Source prefix length position >>>=20 >>> It is possible to either put the Source Prefix length as part of the = TLV >>> header, or in between the source prefix and destination prefix. >>>=20 >>> a. In the TLV header: >>> Cleaner, but breaks first prefix alignment (Or creates 3 or 7 >>> reserved bytes). >>> b. Between the first and second prefix: >>> A bit ugly, but simpler to implement, and less wasteful. >>> Note that this approach changes the wasted bytes values given in >>> previous question (2.) >>> Currently, my favorite format is the following: >>>=20 >>> 0 1 2 3 >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Type | Length | Dst Length |Resvd|Prf|Resvd| >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Route Lifetime | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Destination Prefix (Variable Length) | >>> . . >>> . . >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> | Src Length | Source Prefix (Variable Length) | >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ . >>> . . >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> Note: The source length is placed at the next 8bits boundary after >>> Destination Prefix. >>> It can have any alignment depending on the destination prefix >>> length. >>=20 >>=20 >> In the above you would need padding options (Pad1 and PadN of = RFC2460). >>=20 >> On another hand, I think the easiest for the programmer is to reserve = 2 >> 128bit regions for the prefixes, and 2 8bit fields for the plengths, = each >> anchored at fixes places. It is easy to program, and easy to = specify. >>=20 >> It may waste bandwidth, but maybe it is good to consume bandwith on = some >> smart links which are put down automatically if they are not used = enough. >>=20 >> On what kinds of links is this technology going to be used? >>=20 >> In all cases, one should make sure that prefixlengths other than 64 = are not >> forbidden by design. >>=20 >> Alex >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Pros: >>> It ensures Destination Prefix alignment. >>> It uses the same format as the RIO for first fields and hence = greatly >>> simplifies implementation upgrade. >>> It compresses the TLV as much as possible. >>>=20 >>> Cons: >>> No Source Prefix alignment. >>> Src Length is right in the middle of the TLV. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> - Pierre >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_6EE2A99B-1EEC-4188-A929-8123C6DAA23D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Dear all,

I submitted one solution to SADR problem with Pierre, it = is at:
http://= www.ietf.org/id/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt

I did not give my consent to be put as author of the = mentioned document.
Please see my answer to the new draft = notification message for further details.

My = own current proposal is detailed here: https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra-00

Thanks Alex and Dan for the comments so = far.

- Pierre



On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Alexandru = Petrescu
<alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
Le 04/05/2015 16:33, Pierre = Pfister a =E9crit :

Hello = everyone,

In order to get draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra next = iteration right, I would
like to get a sense of the WG concerning two = comments I got after the
presentation in Dallas.

These are not = big issues in general, but I would rather have opinions
now than = awkward comments and endless iterations later.


1. Define a = type D host.

RFC4191 defines hosts types A,B and C. It would = perfectly make sense to
define type D hosts (For those hosts that are = able to handle Source
Address Dependent Routing Information Option - = SADRIO).

So, the question is: Should we refer to those hosts as = ... ?
  a. "Hosts implementing this specification"
=   b. "Type D hosts"" (Which would be properly defined early in = the
document)

I personally have no strong = preference.

2. TLV format - Prefix alignment

The draft = defines one new TLV containing two variable length = prefix
fields.
As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at = 64bits boundaries.


Yes, and to reach boundaries = it should include Pad1 or PadN options (these
options are in = RFC2460).

What is your favorite ?
=   a. RA compression:
     Source = and Destination prefix would be aligned on 8bits boundaries.
This = minimizes the amount of wasted bytes (Between 0 and 7 wasted = bytes
per TLV).


Further compression could be = to use arbitrary bit positions, not necessarily
on 8bit = boundaries.

But it depends whether this compression level is = needed or not.  Often it is
a temptation to do smart, although = not needed.


  b. 64 bits = Prefix alignment:
     Source and = Destination prefixes are both 64bits aligned.
This approach wastes = between 7 and 21 bytes per TLV (7 of which could be
reserved for = other use).
  c. 32 bits Prefix alignment:
=      Same idea than b but slightly less = wasteful.
Wastes between 3 and 9 bytes (3 of which can be reserved = for other).


3. TLV format - Source prefix length = position

It is possible to either put the Source Prefix length as = part of the TLV
header, or in between the source prefix and = destination prefix.

  a. In the TLV header:
=      Cleaner, but breaks first prefix alignment = (Or creates 3 or 7
reserved bytes).
  b. Between the = first and second prefix:
     A bit ugly, = but simpler to implement, and less wasteful.
Note that this approach = changes the wasted bytes values given in
previous question = (2.)
Currently, my favorite format is the following:

=    0 =             &n= bsp;     1 =             &n= bsp;     2 =             &n= bsp;     3
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
=    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+
   |     Type =      |    Length =     |   Dst Length =  |Resvd|Prf|Resvd|
=    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+
   | =             &n= bsp;          Route = Lifetime =             &n= bsp;           | =    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+
   | =             &n= bsp; Destination Prefix (Variable Length) =            |
=    . =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;.
   . =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;.
=    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+
   |  Src Length   | =     Source Prefix (Variable Length) =           |
=    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =          .
=    . =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;.
=    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+
Note: The source length is placed at the next 8bits = boundary after
Destination Prefix.
=       It can have any alignment depending = on the destination prefix
length.


In the = above you would need padding options (Pad1 and PadN of = RFC2460).

On another hand, I think the easiest for the programmer = is to reserve 2
128bit regions for the prefixes, and 2 8bit fields = for the plengths, each
anchored at fixes places.  It is easy to = program, and easy to specify.

It may waste bandwidth, but maybe = it is good to consume bandwith on some
smart links which are put down = automatically if they are not used enough.

On what kinds of links = is this technology going to be used?

In all cases, one should = make sure that prefixlengths other than 64 are not
forbidden by = design.

Alex


Pros:
It = ensures Destination Prefix alignment.
It uses the same format as the = RIO for first fields and hence greatly
simplifies implementation = upgrade.
It compresses the TLV as much as = possible.

Cons:
No Source Prefix alignment.
Src Length is = right in the middle of the TLV.



Thanks,

- = Pierre



----------------------------------------------------= ----------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative = Requests: = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
----------------------------= ----------------------------------------



-----= ---------------------------------------------------------------
IETF = IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative = Requests: = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
----------------------------= ----------------------------------------

-------------= -------------------------------------------------------
IETF IPv6 = working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative = Requests: = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
----------------------------= ----------------------------------------

= = --Apple-Mail=_6EE2A99B-1EEC-4188-A929-8123C6DAA23D-- From nobody Tue May 5 02:52:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD55A1A87A3 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 02:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c7-K7sA86Tzc for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 02:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 711901A87A4 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 02:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2462; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1430819536; x=1432029136; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=TjoX9jpIMtdoWV2zTBfRxjzMFiwSLX7ERRBxCH2UJVE=; b=D5gONHNSjljctFP1ypcLG9Kpi/+vCYvdUOUxzHrHW+UsaGytGKgq/PCK lTM6UhW5yHYQKaQmemQM+Ee2cerosGhjBVcvLlTSBIqTSp+CQljesuzqI YAyLpSEoHIyi0BKXigAfH2TkZL9XNdZDQqjPmDLgVklgldDpnqbU3ZrMX g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BUBABxkUhV/4gNJK1cgwxTXAXFEGYJgViGAwKBMzgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCABAQEDATo9BwsCARkDAQIfEDIbAggCBBOIIwgNw3UBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXizmFEoMRgRYFixmGdIQRhkGBJD2DFZEoI4IHHBWBPG8BgUOBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,372,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="147193280" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 May 2015 09:52:15 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t459qFEW022446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:52:15 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.187]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 5 May 2015 04:52:15 -0500 From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" To: 6man WG Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-previdi-6man-segment-routing-header-06.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-previdi-6man-segment-routing-header-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHQhxh3+jScxQTirkeJGP9kVKSguQ== Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 09:52:14 +0000 Message-ID: <77F22C48-156F-426B-A2C3-ACF5EFC1E703@cisco.com> References: <20150505094709.21877.23926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.24.6.52] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 09:52:19 -0000 Hi, this version integrates some of the received comments: . Adjacency-SID clarification . Corrected Header diagram (added the 4th element of the policy list) . Spotted bug in section 6.2.4. . Fixed references Thanks. s. Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-previdi-6man-segment-routing-= header-06.txt > Date: May 5, 2015 11:47:09 AM GMT+02:00 > To: Stefano Previdi , Ida Leung , Brian Field , Clarence Filsfils , Stefano Previdi , Ida Leung , Brian Field , Clarence Fil= sfils >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-previdi-6man-segment-routing-header-06.txt > has been successfully submitted by Stefano Previdi and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-previdi-6man-segment-routing-header > Revision: 06 > Title: IPv6 Segment Routing Header (SRH) > Document date: 2015-05-05 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 24 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-previdi-6man-s= egment-routing-header-06.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-previdi-6man-segme= nt-routing-header/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-previdi-6man-segment-ro= uting-header-06 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-previdi-6man-se= gment-routing-header-06 >=20 > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) allows a node to steer a packet through a > controlled set of instructions, called segments, by prepending a SR > header to the packet. A segment can represent any instruction, > topological or service-based. SR allows to enforce a flow through > any path (topological, or application/service based) while > maintaining per-flow state only at the ingress node to the SR domain. >=20 > Segment Routing can be applied to the IPv6 data plane with the > addition of a new type of Routing Extension Header. This draft > describes the Segment Routing Extension Header Type and how it is > used by SR capable nodes. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 From nobody Tue May 5 06:39:51 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EA71AC438 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 06:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fgu8ausKhTHH for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 06:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF8651ACD14 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 06:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BSD99601; Tue, 05 May 2015 13:39:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 5 May 2015 14:39:35 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.195]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 5 May 2015 21:39:31 +0800 From: "Liushucheng (Will)" To: Ole Troan Subject: RE: Moving forward draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation-01 (Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation-01.txt) Thread-Topic: Moving forward draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation-01 (Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation-01.txt) Thread-Index: AQHQgU7gqfZyH/Fn9UKmbQJ5OldPg51hKKSAgAENuQCAAY6/MP//jDMAgAoKBNA= Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 13:39:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150428005529.16774.5976.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <553EDBDC.6020108@si6networks.com> <0EC0C140-050F-4275-AA27-EFA9B00C045F@cisco.com> <8E150E02-9A95-4282-A897-68A6A5F469A4@employees.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.78.105] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "6man-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <6man-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, Fernando Gont , 6man WG , "Fred Baker \(fred\)" , "draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 13:39:50 -0000 SGkgT2xlLA0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgcHJvbXB0IHJlc3BvbnNlLiBQbGVhc2Ugc2Vl IG15IHJlcGx5IGlubGluZSBzdGFydHMgd2l0aCBbV2lsbF0uDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQpXaWxsIChT aHVjaGVuZyBMSVUpDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogT2xl IFRyb2FuIFttYWlsdG86b3Ryb2FuQGVtcGxveWVlcy5vcmddDQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwg QXByaWwgMjksIDIwMTUgNzoxMCBQTQ0KPiBUbzogTGl1c2h1Y2hlbmcgKFdpbGwpDQo+IENjOiBG cmVkIEJha2VyIChmcmVkKTsgRmVybmFuZG8gR29udDsgNm1hbiBXRzsgNm1hbi1jaGFpcnNAdG9v bHMuaWV0Zi5vcmc7DQo+IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtNm1hbi1kZXByZWNhdGUtYXRvbWZyYWctZ2VuZXJh dGlvbkB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogTW92aW5nIGZvcndhcmQNCj4gZHJh ZnQtaWV0Zi02bWFuLWRlcHJlY2F0ZS1hdG9tZnJhZy1nZW5lcmF0aW9uLTAxIChSZTogSS1EIEFj 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D941A1B83 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESrYvqkAK-qK for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22b.google.com (mail-lb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3329F1A1F02 for <6man@ietf.org>; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbuc2 with SMTP id uc2so132802480lbb.2 for <6man@ietf.org>; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=K4aMrRXWHFkEp9TV5rg9y4kSnazuB3r776Z7DGhw5A8=; b=iZVIEzDjgEWhYr8F/h8DJR+tEZG6GcT0EWJ+Kv20WGxbKJO754sLwmvnZzxP7Yawjd 5Y0IpyT8lEOJVu3VLWZCRRA2wv47dydakmdhLSQFFDXdtwlCa0X1jbt1krtDlTMSGGgX +wJNj/Nv3upLYGSQKnPgkWp/HvGxnvXZLY9Ivec8i6afEfl6OCZVFNOlFUlbAgwKJUZ7 ulKBJXBJHHPgswaM9VNlkYMyzHT9F0l7czwrCMa25EmGeimP4zZgLRtTn5pF8vln7L+4 zRiSfB7Oz85lJob4IF9liT9SwGR02yJ980UoNMOCyFjUrSuXf9HrM6Z7xTAs1K/7dyFL 5g8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.161.40 with SMTP id xp8mr2104164lbb.71.1430843251459; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 5 May 2015 11:27:31 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: SADR-RA draft Rev. 02 From: Behcet Sarikaya To: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Brian Haberman X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:40:02 -0000 Hi all, Here is the link for SADR-RA solution draft proposal Revision 02: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-02.txt Regards, Behcet From nobody Tue May 5 09:51:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78971A882D for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MMPsurTl-nQ9 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x233.google.com (mail-ig0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F8861B2F0E for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 09:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbyr2 with SMTP id yr2so107713665igb.0 for ; Tue, 05 May 2015 09:45:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=TiN92lrI9sh5ORKvnotAQ6UXd6vwX4mHU48dn4z7A7Y=; b=KAvr8rE5NjRKCM38wCcM+oTryiBxZHToErGN8ha9u5/MES5WgVUfVySAK0mFeGNtF8 tR/Agm1KUHwP8AUCpmeDJ/S1QX3is6cCkLGhpG1Cm5H/Zu62BLUdiSVWwsS8QdXfmid7 wSMsZ5IQjQxBMCoXt92YvUEs/VHJ0ZX+3nhbPIi3p8H1Al/YGJ/1oSi8v+gGwmpBVBCA 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X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 16:51:25 -0000 At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > > 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment > > > > The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix fields. > > As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. > > Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options > (these options are in RFC2460). (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get it...Pad1 or PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination extension headers, not intended to be used with RA (or any ND in general) options. But if you actually meant we'd need some kind of padding to meet the alignment requirement, that's of course correct (but in that case it's better not to use Pad1 or PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Tue May 5 10:27:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A281A86EE for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:27:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FSL_MY_NAME_IS=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrKzPqUJ_uOl for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com (uillean.fuaim.com [206.197.161.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19CDB1A7001 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (clairseach-high.fuaim.com [206.197.161.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC3C88125 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Brians-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [109.144.245.97]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clairseach.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EA571B0001 for ; Tue, 5 May 2015 10:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5548FD76.8010005@innovationslab.net> Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 18:27:18 +0100 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Important: New Version Notification for draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt References: <20150504214618.32030.97064.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="m5TaSU8nrUF3tmhGfln6PCOmb5IARgJvd" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2015 17:27:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --m5TaSU8nrUF3tmhGfln6PCOmb5IARgJvd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, At this point, this issue has been addressed. A new version has been posted with Pierre's name removed. I thank Behcet for addressing this quickly. The IESG is meeting this week for its retreat. The topic of unauthorized use of people's names as authors of drafts is a point of discussion. We will most likely publish an IESG statement on how we intend to handle such situations. Regards, Brian On 5/4/15 11:47 PM, Pierre Pfister wrote: > To the working group, >=20 > Please read this with attention. >=20 > For some reason, my name is appearing as co-author to that draft. >=20 > It should not be there. > Please note that: > - I **did not** give any sort of agreement to be put co-author to this = draft. > - This draft does not reflect my personal technical opinions. I am actu= ally in strong disagreement with some elements. > - This draft does not represents the technical opinions of the company = I am working for (There is a single =92S=92 to Systems btw). > - My own opinions and suggestions about the very same problem are descr= ibed in the following document: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pfister= -6man-sadr-ra-00 (Opinions have been requested in a different thread). >=20 > Sparing you the long story, I therefore ask a new iteration to be publi= shed **without** my name figuring as co-author to the document. >=20 > Thank you, >=20 > - Pierre >=20 >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-ra >> Revision: 01 >> Title: IPv6 RA Options for Source Address Dependent Routing >> Document date: 2015-05-04 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 9 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-6m= an-sadr-ra-01.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-6man-s= adr-ra/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-6man-sadr-r= a-01 >> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-sarikaya-6ma= n-sadr-ra-01 >> >> Abstract: >> This document proposes the router advertisement extensions for sourc= e >> address dependent routing. New Router Advertisement option is >> defined for configuring route prefixes and their corresponding sourc= e >> prefixes on the mobile or fixed nodes. Using this options, an >> operator can easily configure nodes with multiple interfaces (or >> otherwise multi-homed) to enable them to select the routes to a >> destination. The option is defined together with definitions of hos= t >> and router behaviors. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 --m5TaSU8nrUF3tmhGfln6PCOmb5IARgJvd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVSP12AAoJEBOZRqCi7goqtpkH/20C0JtwaP93cHO0ivuDx3S7 GDV5E++1eauaLKFeA/DKY+AIXNDlDUoGmGjoIfStx1dUYJC0VvLdXU/UOsw12aUL X/u0uRXqV04DeVdoz9AeelQ5QdkzSnmDX7ROOqGEuQmnZt0dk6hurlTcegv0avi8 +QICEP3XXbaa9gJUMG5b+KEeVBrl+AxErx/NEWxyxru4hrv8E+B8DEvE1HD3nbuQ AHnoCsj9ZbmMvh/H7FmBaZzd2pV1iyYdYkAHhDd0nsg0lzaIXQ1LYEy0qKGVugyF 5PM5FPKvzh854HMssgD9DE4olLrdAFKcD/ocHLbuXVSjf3yG/vl7YeqWviqWUI4= =U4P7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --m5TaSU8nrUF3tmhGfln6PCOmb5IARgJvd-- From nobody Wed May 6 00:49:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6810A1A8787 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 00:49:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.683 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.683 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 358P4KfncpLU for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 00:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.8]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D5D11A8755 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 00:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id t467nlCn028221; Wed, 6 May 2015 09:49:47 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9D33B2023B9; Wed, 6 May 2015 09:51:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 881B92023B3; Wed, 6 May 2015 09:51:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id t467nVqd017938; Wed, 6 May 2015 09:49:46 +0200 Message-ID: <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:49:31 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 07:49:51 -0000 Le 05/05/2015 18:45, 神明達哉 a écrit : > At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, > Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > >>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>> >>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix fields. >>> As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. >> >> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options >> (these options are in RFC2460). > > (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get it...Pad1 or > PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination extension headers, not > intended to be used with RA (or any ND in general) options. But if > you actually meant we'd need some kind of padding to meet the > alignment requirement, that's of course correct (but in that case it's > better not to use Pad1 or PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). Hi, Ah, so Pad1 and PadN are exclusively for HbH and DO. You imply Pad1/PadN outside DO and HbH would bring in confusion. Maybe. Or it may be a same function to be reused. And yes, I agree with you and also with what Pierre described - that if alignment is needed then padding is needed. Alex > > -- > JINMEI, Tatuya > > From nobody Wed May 6 02:08:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707E91A8774 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P_lm0ULu-5ZF for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.sealand.io (mx.sealand.io [IPv6:2001:67c:26f4:64::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23F601A0039 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.157.255.3] (ip-109-44-0-171.web.vodafone.de [109.44.0.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.sealand.io (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 57C5C60D78; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:08:32 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: =?utf-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12F70) In-Reply-To: <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 11:08:29 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> To: Alexandru Petrescu Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:08:36 -0000 Hi, This is an implementer speaking: please do align whenever possible. It reall= y makes things much easier to handle and also reduces the possibility of str= ange, platform-immanent bugs. Unless it is something that is going to be hea= vily parsed in hardware (like EH or ipv6 header in general) alignment is alw= ays worth the effort in standardization. Thanks Dan > On 06 May 2015, at 09:49, Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >=20 > Le 05/05/2015 18:45, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 a =C3=A9crit : >> At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, >> Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>=20 >>>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>>>=20 >>>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length prefix fie= lds. >>>> As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits boundaries. >>>=20 >>> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options >>> (these options are in RFC2460). >>=20 >> (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get it...Pad1 or >> PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination extension headers, not >> intended to be used with RA (or any ND in general) options. But if >> you actually meant we'd need some kind of padding to meet the >> alignment requirement, that's of course correct (but in that case it's >> better not to use Pad1 or PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Ah, so Pad1 and PadN are exclusively for HbH and DO. >=20 > You imply Pad1/PadN outside DO and HbH would bring in confusion. Maybe. O= r it may be a same function to be reused. >=20 > And yes, I agree with you and also with what Pierre described - that if al= ignment is needed then padding is needed. >=20 > Alex >=20 >>=20 >> -- >> JINMEI, Tatuya >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SRS0=HUEw=FR=darou.fr=pierre.pfister@bounces.m4x.org Wed May 6 02:33:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0F21ACD3B for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0oveiPXrzgMo for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40C7B1ACD30 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.148.10.49] (unknown [173.38.220.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0E26140C558A; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:33:26 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Pierre Pfister In-Reply-To: <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 11:33:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Wed May 6 11:33:27 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:33:54 -0000 Hello Dan, Thanks for participating in this, Just to balance your comment, I do implementation too, and I believe = programmers are clever enough to deal with variable lengths prefixes. And I also believe alignment is not that important in software = slow-paths (Which is where RAs are parsed). (Of course I am not even thinking about bitwise shifting. Only 8bit = alignment instead of 64bits.) The thing is we will want some kind of compression anyway. We are not = going to put 128bits of zeroes to express a ::/0 prefix. RIO compression allows 0, 64 or 128 bits long prefix field. This was an = easy design decision as the option ends right after anyway. My point is, if we have this 0/64/128 choice, it is not that much = complex to make bytewise compression mandatory. In the first case you do: byte_length =3D ((bitlen - 1) / 64) + 8 = (sparing you the bitlen=3D=3D0 case) In the second case you do: byte_length =3D ((bitlen - 1)/8) + 1 So there is not much difference on the complexity side. On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not going = to kill your cpu neither. But this is just my very humble opinion. And such topic is probably = subject to religious opinions anyway. I am hoping we can get more opinions in order to make a clear decision. Thanks, - Pierre > Hi, >=20 > This is an implementer speaking: please do align whenever possible. It = really makes things much easier to handle and also reduces the = possibility of strange, platform-immanent bugs. Unless it is something = that is going to be heavily parsed in hardware (like EH or ipv6 header = in general) alignment is always worth the effort in standardization. >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Dan >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 06 May 2015, at 09:49, Alexandru Petrescu = wrote: >>=20 >> Le 05/05/2015 18:45, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 a =C3=A9crit = : >>> At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, >>> Alexandru Petrescu wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>>>>=20 >>>>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable length = prefix fields. >>>>> As a reminder, RA options MUST start and finish at 64bits = boundaries. >>>>=20 >>>> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN options >>>> (these options are in RFC2460). >>>=20 >>> (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get it...Pad1 = or >>> PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination extension headers, = not >>> intended to be used with RA (or any ND in general) options. But if >>> you actually meant we'd need some kind of padding to meet the >>> alignment requirement, that's of course correct (but in that case = it's >>> better not to use Pad1 or PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Ah, so Pad1 and PadN are exclusively for HbH and DO. >>=20 >> You imply Pad1/PadN outside DO and HbH would bring in confusion. = Maybe. Or it may be a same function to be reused. >>=20 >> And yes, I agree with you and also with what Pierre described - that = if alignment is needed then padding is needed. >>=20 >> Alex >>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> JINMEI, Tatuya >>=20 >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed May 6 02:57:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E061A6EF2 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:57:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.683 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.683 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3d2G4UbDbfax for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A8AE1A6EE6 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 02:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse.extra.cea.fr (8.14.2/8.14.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.3) with ESMTP id t469vT5f016338; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:57:29 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 4AED4201CAF; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:59:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6442007FE; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:59:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (is010446-4.intra.cea.fr [10.8.33.116]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.2) with ESMTP id t469vRlq012798; Wed, 6 May 2015 11:57:29 +0200 Message-ID: <5549E588.2020109@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:57:28 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pierre Pfister , =?UTF-8?B?RGFuIEzDvGR0a2U=?= Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> In-Reply-To: <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List , =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 09:57:41 -0000 Le 06/05/2015 11:33, Pierre Pfister a écrit : [...] > The thing is we will want some kind of compression anyway. We are not > going to put 128bits of zeroes to express a ::/0 prefix. Pierre - are you asking whether or not we agree to encode a prefix in a compressed manner, rather than all 128bits? Alex RIO > compression allows 0, 64 or 128 bits long prefix field. This was an > easy design decision as the option ends right after anyway. > > My point is, if we have this 0/64/128 choice, it is not that much > complex to make bytewise compression mandatory. In the first case you > do: byte_length = ((bitlen - 1) / 64) + 8 (sparing you the > bitlen==0 case) In the second case you do: byte_length = ((bitlen - > 1)/8) + 1 > > So there is not much difference on the complexity side. On the other > side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not going to kill > your cpu neither. > > But this is just my very humble opinion. And such topic is probably > subject to religious opinions anyway. I am hoping we can get more > opinions in order to make a clear decision. > > Thanks, > > - Pierre > >> Hi, >> >> This is an implementer speaking: please do align whenever possible. >> It really makes things much easier to handle and also reduces the >> possibility of strange, platform-immanent bugs. Unless it is >> something that is going to be heavily parsed in hardware (like EH >> or ipv6 header in general) alignment is always worth the effort in >> standardization. >> >> Thanks >> >> Dan >> >> >> >>> On 06 May 2015, at 09:49, Alexandru Petrescu >>> wrote: >>> >>> Le 05/05/2015 18:45, 神明達哉 a écrit : >>>> At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>>>>> >>>>>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable >>>>>> length prefix fields. As a reminder, RA options MUST start >>>>>> and finish at 64bits boundaries. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN >>>>> options (these options are in RFC2460). >>>> >>>> (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get >>>> it...Pad1 or PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination >>>> extension headers, not intended to be used with RA (or any ND >>>> in general) options. But if you actually meant we'd need some >>>> kind of padding to meet the alignment requirement, that's of >>>> course correct (but in that case it's better not to use Pad1 or >>>> PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Ah, so Pad1 and PadN are exclusively for HbH and DO. >>> >>> You imply Pad1/PadN outside DO and HbH would bring in confusion. >>> Maybe. Or it may be a same function to be reused. >>> >>> And yes, I agree with you and also with what Pierre described - >>> that if alignment is needed then padding is needed. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> -- JINMEI, Tatuya >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>> ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative >> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > From nobody Wed May 6 03:40:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650161B2ABF for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 03:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UrzZ2n-EEYwX for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 03:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.sealand.io (mx.sealand.io [193.160.39.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E006B1B2AB3 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 03:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.228.13.231] (unknown [88.128.80.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.sealand.io (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B275C60D78; Wed, 6 May 2015 12:40:48 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: =?utf-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= In-Reply-To: <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 12:40:43 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> To: Pierre Pfister X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 10:40:53 -0000 Hi all, Having either 64 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. Everything = else seems to complex for too little gain from my point of view. But let = me think about that a bit. > On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister = wrote: >=20 > On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not = going to kill your cpu neither. I care more about the bus than the CPU here. But lets discuss that on a = different level. What are good reasons for compression in the first = place? On links were compression matters, isn=E2=80=99t there already = compression below the network layer? Cheers Dan= From nobody Wed May 6 04:13:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C15841A888E for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pN7lMrrm8E_y for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E62E51A8861 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.148.10.49] (unknown [173.38.220.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D41561409B021; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:13:17 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Pierre Pfister In-Reply-To: <5549E588.2020109@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 13:13:17 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6EBCE638-1F5C-4858-9D20-ECFA6CA23486@darou.fr> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <5549E588.2020109@gmail.com> To: Alexandru Petrescu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Wed May 6 13:13:18 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:13:24 -0000 Hello Alex, > Le 06/05/2015 11:33, Pierre Pfister a =C3=A9crit : > [...] >> The thing is we will want some kind of compression anyway. We are not >> going to put 128bits of zeroes to express a ::/0 prefix. >=20 > Pierre - are you asking whether or not we agree to encode a prefix in = a compressed manner, rather than all 128bits? >=20 It already is compressed in RIO. It is not mandatory thought. But = parsing compressed RIO is mandatory. Regards, - Pierre > Alex >=20 >=20 > RIO >> compression allows 0, 64 or 128 bits long prefix field. This was an >> easy design decision as the option ends right after anyway. >>=20 >> My point is, if we have this 0/64/128 choice, it is not that much >> complex to make bytewise compression mandatory. In the first case you >> do: byte_length =3D ((bitlen - 1) / 64) + 8 (sparing you the >> bitlen=3D=3D0 case) In the second case you do: byte_length =3D = ((bitlen - >> 1)/8) + 1 >>=20 >> So there is not much difference on the complexity side. On the other >> side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not going to kill >> your cpu neither. >>=20 >> But this is just my very humble opinion. And such topic is probably >> subject to religious opinions anyway. I am hoping we can get more >> opinions in order to make a clear decision. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> - Pierre >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> This is an implementer speaking: please do align whenever possible. >>> It really makes things much easier to handle and also reduces the >>> possibility of strange, platform-immanent bugs. Unless it is >>> something that is going to be heavily parsed in hardware (like EH >>> or ipv6 header in general) alignment is always worth the effort in >>> standardization. >>>=20 >>> Thanks >>>=20 >>> Dan >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 06 May 2015, at 09:49, Alexandru Petrescu >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Le 05/05/2015 18:45, =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 a =C3=A9cri= t : >>>>> At Mon, 04 May 2015 18:34:41 +0200, Alexandru Petrescu >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> 2. TLV format - Prefix alignment >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The draft defines one new TLV containing two variable >>>>>>> length prefix fields. As a reminder, RA options MUST start >>>>>>> and finish at 64bits boundaries. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Yes, and to reach boundaries it should include Pad1 or PadN >>>>>> options (these options are in RFC2460). >>>>>=20 >>>>> (not about the main point of this thread but) I don't get >>>>> it...Pad1 or PadN options are for Hop-by-Hop or Destination >>>>> extension headers, not intended to be used with RA (or any ND >>>>> in general) options. But if you actually meant we'd need some >>>>> kind of padding to meet the alignment requirement, that's of >>>>> course correct (but in that case it's better not to use Pad1 or >>>>> PadN to avoid unnecessary confusion). >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> Ah, so Pad1 and PadN are exclusively for HbH and DO. >>>>=20 >>>> You imply Pad1/PadN outside DO and HbH would bring in confusion. >>>> Maybe. Or it may be a same function to be reused. >>>>=20 >>>> And yes, I agree with you and also with what Pierre described - >>>> that if alignment is needed then padding is needed. >>>>=20 >>>> Alex >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- JINMEI, Tatuya >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>=20 >>>>=20 > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>> ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>> = -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative >>> Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed May 6 04:17:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CB471B2AC4 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:17:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDHo0yBKkQEQ for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.polytechnique.org (mx1.polytechnique.org [129.104.30.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5425E1B2AC3 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.148.10.49] (unknown [173.38.220.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ssl.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B4BD1409B021; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:17:31 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Pierre Pfister In-Reply-To: <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 13:17:30 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Dan_L=FCdtke?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP at svoboda.polytechnique.org (Wed May 6 13:17:31 2015 +0200 (CEST)) Archived-At: Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:17:34 -0000 Dan, >=20 > Having either 64 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. = Everything else seems to complex for too little gain from my point of = view. But let me think about that a bit. >=20 >> On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister = wrote: >>=20 >> On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not = going to kill your cpu neither. >=20 > I care more about the bus than the CPU here. But lets discuss that on = a different level. What are good reasons for compression in the first = place? On links were compression matters, isn=92t there already = compression below the network layer? I=92d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of packet = size use. We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some point = we will reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs. We could rely on jumbo packets, or expect the MTU is going to increase = in the coming decade, or that we will simply not reach it anytime soon, = but I think we should try to be careful when adding options to RAs. Try = not to consume too much packet space. - Pierre From nobody Wed May 6 04:34:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6F11A8A76 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:34:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bms5r1jjDo5 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from banjo.employees.org (banjo.employees.org [198.137.202.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78B621A905C for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from banjo.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by banjo.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9095E6136; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:33:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=employees.org; h=subject :mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id :references:to; s=selector1; bh=/hA1bsvvmktkKz3G6nh35QkHA+o=; b= qHfs5lxO6zHtV24kcJAwgxxI18TW882CurnufzPzhZ4jsUBQb+kySG9nKM/0vEaF Dqft1vvI3MBC6P+gNKtOxSiWEq/yuBQCpnl5k5nsM+zefex9lGV7Pd0mzqVoc41j UXpsOVipbPQVyL1gppC33UJhiTATVwb74qMnSpvTN6s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=employees.org; h=subject :mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id :references:to; q=dns; s=selector1; b=C5OVvlK1E+zseNy5lJ1LlJAQTV fxrUpChjEjHULoEcLmvhQJNdQxxokJpevZ4SrCU0F8tfBPeZbmR1USrtfHwQlI9z ZQOsZ5VBEWk0idEN9DCyVS90zlLqXRiWe8XhiyOsuvWK1aPNyPtZCNS1Sfr1QJZ/ +2SNAtWA/ZcZlNdTQ= Received: from gomlefisk.localdomain (unknown [173.38.220.39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: otroan) by banjo.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2DBB96128; Wed, 6 May 2015 04:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by gomlefisk.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D731445D318; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:33:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4DD1486F-A2DB-4A67-A54E-78B60440A2B0"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Ole Troan In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 13:33:33 +0200 Message-Id: References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> To: Pierre Pfister X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: 6man WG , Alexandru Petrescu , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 11:34:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4DD1486F-A2DB-4A67-A54E-78B60440A2B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >>=20 >> Having either 64 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. = Everything else seems to complex for too little gain from my point of = view. But let me think about that a bit. >>=20 >>> On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister = wrote: >>>=20 >>> On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not = going to kill your cpu neither. >>=20 >> I care more about the bus than the CPU here. But lets discuss that on = a different level. What are good reasons for compression in the first = place? On links were compression matters, isn=92t there already = compression below the network layer? >=20 > I=92d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of packet = size use. > We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some point = we will reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs. > We could rely on jumbo packets, or expect the MTU is going to increase = in the coming decade, or that we will simply not reach it anytime soon, = but I think we should try to be careful when adding options to RAs. Try = not to consume too much packet space. there=92s (unfortunately) precedence for all variants here. - 16 octets - pad out to nearest octet - pad out to nearest 64 bit bounadry at least I=92d like for both prefixes in the option to have the same = rules. my preference is to be consistent with RFC4191=92s 0, 8 or 16 octets if = at all possible. that would mean we either would have to replace the preference bits with = source prefix length, or insert 7 reserved octets before the source = prefix. my second choice is to pad out to nearest octet. cheers, Ole --Apple-Mail=_4DD1486F-A2DB-4A67-A54E-78B60440A2B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVSfwOAAoJEFuJXizso86gSyYIAM7PJQMG35YCK7EKjzyEyFYY 8uWdItkRWRUSFOn0aBtbtKHujgGJ3DrXg/Ybfx/qnmkK3BZms/R8Awc7wn9zGfjx E23kJl/kJCsRTzzdok4UVHxfT6Ft0xo4Fecilxtl5Gdk1bAHHaFfh3Xug4zedtE0 FXg/EH2x2rCzmfLr3dYnJEjobUihPqbgMZEdGRoP93qPHZVbvgkvFfMjhfFdkBNp 7fCpiEXmXjorSPoQTIp3T6vQ7GvIC7rVA3YvzLWgeyiewl7OT5v26PrEpey9is3k n7I15vNk6XbB5bDJ16VWUca1KDIB2dmnR1Q50JzdY1TF0+zdSDS45wxG2Ek8+sA= =0Bau -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4DD1486F-A2DB-4A67-A54E-78B60440A2B0-- From nobody Wed May 6 05:39:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6311A6EE7 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtUvtiuWhhbm for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.sealand.io (mx.sealand.io [IPv6:2001:67c:26f4:64::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C82A91A6EDC for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (ip-109-44-0-171.web.vodafone.de [109.44.0.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.sealand.io (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 029D560D78; Wed, 6 May 2015 14:39:21 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: =?windows-1252?Q?Dan_L=FCdtke?= In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 14:39:18 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1B87093C-C2CA-4933-9AD3-3387C4C8C440@danrl.de> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> To: Pierre Pfister X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , IPv6 IPv6 List , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 12:39:25 -0000 Hi, >=20 > I=92d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of packet = size use. > We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some point = we will reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs. I think it is not at all a hard boundary. I have a draft in the pipeline = where even the grouping of multi packet NDP messages is discussed. I = will release it as soon as it is ready, hopefully next week. For the meantime, here is an extract from = draft-sarikaya-6man-ra-guidelines-00 that I wrote, which I hope helps = clarifying. > 5.8. RAs Spanning Over Multiple Packets >=20 >=20 > Due to many and/or large options, a Router Advertisement may not = fit > into a single packet, such RAs are called RAs spanning over = multiple > packets. In this case the router sends multiple Router = Advertisement > messages with identical ICMPv6 header, filling each of the messages > with different options. >=20 > Note that, if used, the Flags Expansion option as defined in > [RFC5175] is present in all Router Advertisement messages with > identical ICMPv6 header. Cheers Dan >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed May 6 05:42:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F94D1A6F39 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F9Hq7MeW5lba for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.sealand.io (mx.sealand.io [193.160.39.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 319E61A6F29 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 05:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (ip-109-44-0-171.web.vodafone.de [109.44.0.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.sealand.io (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85C6960D78; Wed, 6 May 2015 14:42:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FBC9274C-2E73-4D93-8FE8-4C85D6FF144B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: =?utf-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 14:42:11 +0200 Message-Id: <835668F0-9A94-4FB8-98A7-274D9812EBAC@danrl.de> References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> To: Ole Troan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: 6man WG , Alexandru Petrescu , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 12:42:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FBC9274C-2E73-4D93-8FE8-4C85D6FF144B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi, > there=92s (unfortunately) precedence for all variants here. > - 16 octets It wastes the most space, but is easy to implement. > - pad out to nearest octet > - pad out to nearest 64 bit bounadry >=20 Requires inet_pton or manual expanding to 128 bit. It=92s fine, too, but = just not very friendly in terms of implementation. I know that we will = have a trade-off in the end, but for now I see not so much value in = using smaller fields for that very special application. Cheers Dan --Apple-Mail=_FBC9274C-2E73-4D93-8FE8-4C85D6FF144B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF4EAREKAAYFAlVKDCQACgkQg7qmx/JyvfyS5gD/Y10b/3NX13R2vAzGsaawUMiq Qq9L7ER1mmaZcAJRe+wA/3dLnJnhU+I1xJNyiTvXXfOkc13+QbZt5pLdGMJIXoQg =UTg/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_FBC9274C-2E73-4D93-8FE8-4C85D6FF144B-- From nobody Wed May 6 13:53:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C4BE1B2EFE; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aJ71DM0A0muA; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A41A1ACDF1; Wed, 6 May 2015 13:53:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150506205335.9864.87014.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 13:53:35 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 20:53:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. Title : Recommendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers Authors : Fernando Gont Alissa Cooper Dave Thaler Will Liu Filename : draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2015-05-06 Abstract: The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layers specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link- layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC). The security and privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated from such schemes to mitigate these issues. This document changes the recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link- layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers. It formally updates RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590, RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from the underlying link-layer address. Additionally, this document provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 6 16:49:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1611A89A1 for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 16:49:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.402 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cr8iKihKpzxi for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 16:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm34-vm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm34-vm6.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.229.86]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 092561A899E for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 16:49:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1430956169; bh=mEK59nwvsGEWeMTsXs0SQBqZqLfmYEjkDjuJQ3JwvVc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=jpHhh4oGTWP53zvo4wqb0VRPvKsSRI7iaTNX5lt4QTFQ3UFkZNky8fn5D/lxukIt8mDrhwTE6TtVtUuPF/Ucl9EF+YSAqEJ6+I5eDFa2oHkRZxUyZfPCOQgIPkn0RAyOUFJCbiQoEbk17/Tl0zGO+HH+qAmBp58cHR56SSXEFsvLdxIQSf18VTh0o3qOoLUM7Ywyy0qLWyxxtYC66oHshFoacB24t1o/IiXAXy4ILO3Ww1N0qwe3oyGEbsh20ctr5AE2wY5nrDVTNXOJR4XzUUnwr3JyanLtDEu6WNOHRp5JXDmy+CVmmrrqGZEfvjzhxjE6BScGpgipCv7DON2TGQ== Received: from [127.0.0.1] by nm34.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2015 23:49:29 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.178] by nm34.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2015 23:46:47 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.170] by tm13.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2015 23:46:47 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.224] by tm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2015 23:46:47 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1033.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2015 23:46:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 296853.23324.bm@omp1033.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: _uRS6.gVM1k_nUgCrekqY.bDu8U09vUyHzBDWNae410.amW2ZtF7XIf35azwK5S EwuVnOVamH4KeYlM.GaXGcg1pcy5rTTVuLoZB6YHxJiO2vdnEOxynxPNXkHiaSdGTwzLYKcK4qIF zpfuaZZsG1Mfzvh2dL26HniHuvR2KGzuO6pDCzupdq9_Zz99cgs9G81JD9XbqnrqeKXgBrlJxf_k g6GkdPk8By.wsU9sVIIs75BBR7v0Zq4IMAHWuh9edUa5_VD1kUdRzvDxTbqJy1SZhyWSWqIJJWIA PVAghiFV.lHLPQilxTFCHtKPiIWhroNp6Y_AkIHCblXrdrl7BBE84IDyJgybDqtlKTfmPkXomwlz gMwSb._CuWrYf2IWYPaZIMc3p_GLkUlCusXqWvP5D74mgtpJnePp5v8KI125SuHzFlV8BOa9WCGY tb48mYeh4S4nCgVtBJYM9l2amzKAxpHp.sHWBZ4s0y8HiZusD0_iGzJWK5WRghetkQh0Y.n1NVU5 A.CbjPNf2bUA7MInB_LRlCkFrr4Km9g5bmID.PR.Q68I8oZjfAWMEQJ3hh60g Received: by 76.13.27.50; Wed, 06 May 2015 23:46:46 +0000 Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 23:46:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: Pierre Pfister , =?UTF-8?Q?Dan_L=C3=BCdtke?= Message-ID: <1481017824.1887787.1430956006193.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1887786_1389087297.1430956006184" Archived-At: Cc: Alexandru Petrescu , IPv6 IPv6 List , =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 23:49:31 -0000 ------=_Part_1887786_1389087297.1430956006184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Pierre Pfister To: Dan L=C3=BCdtke =20 Cc: Alexandru Petrescu ; IPv6 IPv6 List ; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 =20 Sent: Wednesday, 6 May 2015, 21:17 Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on= TLV format and type D host definition =20 Dan, >=20 > Having either 64 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. Everything e= lse seems to complex for too little gain from my point of view. But let me = think about that a bit. >=20 >> On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister wrote: >>=20 >> On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not going= to kill your cpu neither. >=20 > I care more about the bus than the CPU here. But lets discuss that on a d= ifferent level. What are good reasons for compression in the first place? O= n links were compression matters, isn=E2=80=99t there already compression b= elow the network layer? I=E2=80=99d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of packe= t size use. We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some point we w= ill reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs. We could rely on jumbo packets, or expect the MTU is going to increase in t= he coming decade, or that we will simply not reach it anytime soon, but I t= hink we should try to be careful when adding options to RAs. Try not to con= sume too much packet space. / While I agree with the approach of minimising option size, be aware that = an individual RA doesn't have to contain all of the options that the RA ann= ouncing router wants to announce, they instead can be spread across multipl= e RAs to cope with the set of options exceeding the size of a single RA: RFC4861, "6.2.3. =C2=A0Router Advertisement Message Content" " =C2=A0If including all options causes the size of an advertisement to=C2= =A0 =C2=A0exceed the link MTU, multiple advertisements can be sent, each=C2= =A0 =C2=A0containing a subset of the options." / I think this is also why the Router Lifetme field has no influence of the= lifetime of options carried in the RA, and why RA options need to have the= ir own lifetime fields if their values need to age in any way. / Regards,Mark. - Pierre -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =C2=A0 ------=_Part_1887786_1389087297.1430956006184 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


From: Pierre Pfister <pierre.pfister@darou.f= r>
To: Dan L=C3=BCd= tke <mail@danrl.de>
Cc: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>; IPv6 IPv6 = List <ipv6@ietf.org>; =E7=A5=9E=E6=98=8E=E9=81=94=E5=93=89 <jinmei= @wide.ad.jp>
Sent:= Wednesday, 6 May 2015, 21:17
Sub= ject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opin= ions on TLV format and type D host definition

Dan,

>
> Having either 6= 4 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. Everything else seems to comp= lex for too little gain from my point of view. But let me think about that = a bit.
>
>> On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister <pierre.pfister@darou.fr> wrote:
>>
>> On = the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not going to ki= ll your cpu neither.
>
> I care more about the bus than the CP= U here. But lets discuss that on a different level. What are good reasons f= or compression in the first place? On links were compression matters, isn= =E2=80=99t there already compression below the network layer?

I=E2= =80=99d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of packet si= ze use.
We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some= point we will reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs.
We could= rely on jumbo packets, or expect the MTU is going to increase in the comin= g decade, or that we will simply not reach it anytime soon, but I think we = should try to be careful when adding options to RAs. Try not to consume too= much packet space.

/ While I agree with the approach of minimising = option size, be aware that an individual RA doesn't have to contain all of = the options that the RA announcing router wants to announce, they instead c= an be spread across multiple RAs to cope with the set of options exceeding = the size of a single RA:

<= /div>
RFC4861, "6.2.3.  Router = Advertisement Message Content"

"  If including all options = causes the size of an advertisement to
   exceed the link MTU, multip= le advertisements can be sent, each
   containing a subset of the opt= ions."

/ I think this is also why the Router Lifetme field has no influence = of the lifetime of options carried in the RA, and why RA options need to ha= ve their own lifetime fields if their values need to age in any way.
<= div class=3D"" id=3D"yui_3_16_0_1_1430955375847_3917" style=3D"">
=
/ Regards= ,
Ma= rk.
=



- Pierre



--------------------------------------------------------------------<= br>IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ip= v6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/ipv6
----------------------------------------------------------= ----------

 
= ------=_Part_1887786_1389087297.1430956006184-- From nobody Wed May 6 17:50:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DB21B2F8A for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 17:50:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.102 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ml9tC_Q8trHa for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 17:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65A931B2FED for ; Wed, 6 May 2015 17:50:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1430959800; bh=t2g7KBoXp1DfsTxyMueKu4k+A2OLDE0JU5gi4afD42Q=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=K76XLhlyMiDjK0hYFhDbCevwlX0hu8pNmFTkDptu8dKkC2dgGlOHzyIpqfXP5dtXC7dzTq3cATJgKWZnX//XLrCxgUA+tBs//yHDzR4kkODm0hHJMEibqEkfASmtvCm6fIesw+jDcnbH/GNL49rR4r08CIC4SgppN2CS2y0qBp3giCzrSxWbmrZuE5BVdCdYrHqwZZihmEz6/EPMq4R5mE3uFhxiNHgGYmQ5O+uVJj9yNzx/ChHsjUr3NjlttBXhOp/FGNByOxtzrFnCxuswRlAKwuQjiNumAXyIBjfm38DwCz32QN/un2vUzIMkhj0bWtaIYhpJs+rgOGy3LMfuJw== Received: from [66.196.81.173] by nm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2015 00:50:00 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.235] by tm19.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2015 00:49:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1044.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2015 00:49:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 877219.35972.bm@omp1044.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: qaaG7ZwVM1lZz6D35FahRejrEPs1Wc41miBLQ8EjNkDT3n3GLTR94jBE6Jx8ZyP SASXRnBxIlWVWONuuKNyxqz27uTbjnkDsSLHyyUAZZ8nHLQBpF7bqeKmXzdZuYlHOfTmrBTq7SJj .fkORfaTWnqlaoNAAOExcth58kBz2O_Rwl9GPoj2D2vVjKo.QS3LOj4QALyE8C5i4qA3vaIkD5Ct 6hrVEhi_9V_YlFIPCRWyq_ZxeT4ippmllqQ0_rRBEE8RolK8yZBn.YaYrbmtXknlK_vq2nEvSd8x cR820KUZjON0MnLUPms.mQGAGQDOxpH9MXMNF9EO1LQ9zmLthJ6qOQz1ebdRnA1xE9FbKGNtDgTr dF9Pdng6Hqfv6lpAGZ.p46IWGTDgA1rodXC4LAKfZVNj5eyhu6lgxTLuTuVVJGUDqkSHrRU4B1QS jJSwKzjSwyeK9sGTRt4KAMeoTRgF6RoLtxnLoAmhu9g1GqvBWJy3vZm3rBO8rZNxixH990leMbKI pCjf7V5JVPEmGwqmY_755Nj6.mZmhK7akwGYfkxIvsNsrQVZkJg-- Received: by 76.13.27.49; Thu, 07 May 2015 00:49:59 +0000 Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 00:49:58 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" , "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1158525771.1985321.1430959799057.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20150506205335.9864.87014.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20150506205335.9864.87014.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1985320_320625899.1430959799052" Archived-At: Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 00:50:04 -0000 ------=_Part_1985320_320625899.1430959799052 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've one suggestion for the following text (**s) "It is RECOMMENDED by this document that future specifications do not=C2=A0= =C2=A0specify IPv6 address generation schemes that embed the underlying=C2= =A0 =C2=A0link-layer address in the IID. =C2=A0Future specifications MAY us= e an IID=C2=A0 =C2=A0based on a node's link-layer address if design and eng= ineering=C2=A0 =C2=A0considerations warrant. ** Note that some link-layers = support locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2001], such as [IEE= E 802.3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6= IIDs are to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that t= he random addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-ra= ndom locally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used= .***" Regards,Mark. From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org=20 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53 Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IET= F. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Fernando G= ont =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alissa Cooper =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dave Thaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Will Liu =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 9 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2015-05-= 06 Abstract: =C2=A0 The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format =C2=A0 Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s =C2=A0 specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link- =C2=A0 layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6 =C2=A0 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).=C2=A0 The security and =C2=A0 privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the =C2=A0 Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time =C2=A0 now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m =C2=A0 such schemes to mitigate these issues.=C2=A0 This document changes t= he =C2=A0 recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC =C2=A0 to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link- =C2=A0 layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.=C2=A0 It formally upd= ates =C2=A0 RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590, =C2=A0 RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and =C2=A0 RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from =C2=A0 the underlying link-layer address.=C2=A0 Additionally, this document =C2=A0 provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with =C2=A0 other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host =C2=A0 Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_Part_1985320_320625899.1430959799052 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I've = one suggestion for the following text (**s)

"It is RECOMMENDED by this document that future specific= ations do not
   specify IPv6 address generation schemes that embed t= he underlying
   link-layer address in the IID.  Future specific= ations MAY use an IID
   based on a node's link-layer address if desi= gn and engineering
   considerations warrant. ** Note tha= t some link-layers support locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-= 2001], such as [IEEE 802.3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetoo= th 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs are to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is= RECOMMENDED that the random addresses supported by the link-layer are used= , or that pseudo-random locally assigned link-layer addresses are generated= , assigned and used.***"
<= br>
Regards,
Mark.


From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <= internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To:<= /span> i-d-announce@ietf.org
= Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Sen= t: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt=


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line I= nternet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maint= enance Working Group of the IETF.

        Title&= nbsp;         : Recommendation on Stable IPv6 Interfac= e Identifiers
        Authors      &n= bsp; : Fernando Gont
              &= nbsp;           Alissa Cooper
    &nb= sp;                     D= ave Thaler
                 = ;         Will Liu
    Filename =       : draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
  =   Pages          : 9
    D= ate            : 2015-05-06

Abstract:<= br>  The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format<= br>  Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-l= ayers
  specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlyi= ng link-
  layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when empl= oying IPv6
  Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).  Th= e security and
  privacy implications of embedding link-layer addr= esses in the
  Interface Identifier have been known and understood= for some time
  now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have a= lready deviated from
  such schemes to mitigate these issues. = ; This document changes the
  recommended default Interface Identi= fier generation scheme for SLAAC
  to that specified in RFC7217, a= nd recommends against embedding link-
  layer addresses in IPv6 In= terface Identifiers.  It formally updates
  RFC2464, RFC2467,= RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590,
  RFC3146, RFC3572, = RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and
  RFC5121, which = require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from
  the underl= ying link-layer address.  Additionally, this document
  provi= des advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with
  ot= her address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host
  Confi= guration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration.


T= he IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/

Ther= e's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03

A diff from the pre= vious version is available at:
https://www.ietf.o= rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03


Please not= e that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until= the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Inte= rnet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-d= rafts/

---------------------------------------------------------= -----------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administ= rative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
----------= ----------------------------------------------------------


------=_Part_1985320_320625899.1430959799052-- From nobody Thu May 7 14:22:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72B61B2B7A for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 14:22:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NOzTcjMVZ3Vt for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 14:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x234.google.com (mail-lb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB45A1B2B54 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 14:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lbbzk7 with SMTP id zk7so40499847lbb.0 for ; Thu, 07 May 2015 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yJMwbHJWavy2xZqAspR6FTRdEF4OvfTkB5dVUVS3qJs=; b=JPPcpyQcpe1s2W+PgMex4akztIkqnTjXrsnBAWd6kKOfgBKWsQL0F7CH43MLTxMbnN TzTGIaSCcx4fLXUdR3sfOudWmnlG0sf1AQoTNoIFzIoyVwbzIrpCh9GoWy1PNkprL7HZ y21/4avRiOZ5Q403MbpitU+T5y4J9rqbN5lPIIquMcmQwwyvjZcamXWny7yZNNYuaxiM ynrpX48xEkaFx4yyEbxhCIcqMFfcADVWIku71ZplQPXnnKdNlnIWPiz6zh/DZ4WuAEpA ZnIAqmIe65PzCzsDzPrOu18slkEIw4rBZB2kb2riERaRKHvfrXc8I1gdS2ZrZax4bxiO y5dw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.29.198 with SMTP id m6mr422730lah.11.1431033729457; Thu, 07 May 2015 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Thu, 7 May 2015 14:22:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <55479FA1.9090101@gmail.com> <5549C78B.8050404@gmail.com> <9EB56366-8BD9-49E0-BE67-B4E876928918@danrl.de> <7B44DA9E-65B6-437F-BA21-CFED54512103@darou.fr> <3B2ED11B-3885-400D-9B5A-7C5B851B65D1@danrl.de> Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 16:22:09 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Padding and draft-pfister-6man-sadr-ra - Call for opinions on TLV format and type D host definition From: Behcet Sarikaya To: Ole Troan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: 6man WG , Alexandru Petrescu , =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2015 21:22:24 -0000 On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Ole Troan wrote: >>> >>> Having either 64 or 128 long prefixes would be a compromise. Everything= else seems to complex for too little gain from my point of view. But let m= e think about that a bit. >>> >>>> On 6 May 2015, at 11:33, Pierre Pfister wrot= e: >>>> >>>> On the other side, not aligning may require a memcpy. Which is not goi= ng to kill your cpu neither. >>> >>> I care more about the bus than the CPU here. But lets discuss that on a= different level. What are good reasons for compression in the first place?= On links were compression matters, isn=E2=80=99t there already compression= below the network layer? >> >> I=E2=80=99d say the main motivation is to be conservative in terms of pa= cket size use. >> We are adding things to RAs at a quite regular pace. And at some point w= e will reach the MTU, which is a hard boundary for RAs. >> We could rely on jumbo packets, or expect the MTU is going to increase i= n the coming decade, or that we will simply not reach it anytime soon, but = I think we should try to be careful when adding options to RAs. Try not to = consume too much packet space. > > there=E2=80=99s (unfortunately) precedence for all variants here. > - 16 octets > - pad out to nearest octet This does not require any padding because prefix length is 8 bits anyway. So I don't understand this choice. Smaller sizes are flags. > - pad out to nearest 64 bit boundary I used 32 bit boundary but it is easy to make it 64 bit boundary. > > at least I=E2=80=99d like for both prefixes in the option to have the sam= e rules. > my preference is to be consistent with RFC4191=E2=80=99s 0, 8 or 16 octet= s if at all possible. > that would mean we either would have to replace the preference bits with = source prefix length, or insert 7 reserved octets before the source prefix. > Before or after? I am using padding after the source prefix. > my second choice is to pad out to nearest octet. > To make Dan happy maybe we should not use this choice? Regards Behcet From nobody Thu May 7 22:58:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B747B1AC3BC for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 22:58:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CKnU-x1wx_J7 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 22:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E26771AC3B7 for ; Thu, 7 May 2015 22:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BVU44931; Fri, 08 May 2015 05:58:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 8 May 2015 06:58:08 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA509-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.195]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 8 May 2015 13:58:05 +0800 From: "Liushucheng (Will)" To: Mark ZZZ Smith Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHQiD6+Q58bwoqq7EuWpUTaLdhhMZ1vKOEAgAJuAFA= Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 05:58:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150506205335.9864.87014.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1158525771.1985321.1430959799057.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1158525771.1985321.1430959799057.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.78.105] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C9B5F12337F6F841B35C404CF0554ACB600D8C5FSZXEMA509MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 05:58:15 -0000 --_000_C9B5F12337F6F841B35C404CF0554ACB600D8C5FSZXEMA509MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTWFyaywNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnRzLiBUaGUgcGFydCB5b3UgYWRk ZWQgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UuIFdlIHdpbGwgdXBkYXRlIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBhY2NvcmRpbmdseS4N 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port 10024) with ESMTP id 1aEVc4TgLIpI for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 04:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de [141.3.10.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B2AD1B29AD for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 04:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from i72vorta.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.26] helo=i72vorta.tm.kit.edu) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp port 25 iface 141.3.10.81 id 1YqgPQ-0001T8-OX for ; Fri, 08 May 2015 13:25:36 +0200 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by i72vorta.tm.kit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD5BAB00992 for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 13:25:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <554C9D30.8060301@kit.edu> Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 13:25:36 +0200 From: "Bless, Roland (TM)" Organization: Institute of Telematics, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 6man Subject: RFC7371 (Updates to the IPv6 Multicast Addressing Architecture) question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ATIS-AV: ClamAV (iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de) X-ATIS-Timestamp: iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de 1431084337. Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 11:25:42 -0000 Hi, if I understand RFC7371 (Updates to the IPv6 Multicast Addressing Architecture) section 2 correctly, the updated (generic) Multicast Address format from RFC4291 is: | 8 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 108 bits | +------ -+----+----+----+----------------------------------------+ |11111111| ff1|scop| ff2| group ID | +--------+----+----+----+----------------------------------------+ I don't understand why it isn't written this way in RFC7371, e.g., as an update subsection in section 4 similar to sections 4.1 and 4.2. Or is the intention that only RFCs like 3306 and 3956 are clarified w.r.t. ff2 and my above interpretation is not applicable? Clarification hints welcome... Regards, Roland From nobody Fri May 8 09:41:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0363E1B2BE0; Fri, 8 May 2015 09:41:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gb-LBVEIDJ6B; Fri, 8 May 2015 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com (mail-la0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 458FD1B2C26; Fri, 8 May 2015 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by labbd9 with SMTP id bd9so56601234lab.2; Fri, 08 May 2015 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=YXRHx1AXynZmVA/lfDra1rXi9piHhrtpHbsdwCqtUIQ=; b=x8wmDllEuDG1DAuTH2FJG2Zq0792bk73C+GZVjDehPttcFndEIzY98cqLMDwFdYBBo fipAbP4od2pSXJvrEAUFjqiRNvhaeY/vabks5IThGS/X8Iyimw0hxZxJx1qF7OuzStpN Ba/sBFN8NrQSAMoEUbP9itbdw+YTsCcoGa3jnKi4qkrpoydYhjbblFN5MiWylDmQQpoj mk9VnYG1hbf2Jmy4W9y+9pL7u9ObAu7NE3yRjlvjyUPA1DKegurDV7VgidAPtdfA3dLx 3u3sY7TRaaWtfzmkxbHRCQ2WtLYsmUn+2zKj2+7oqSj32mjWR/TBNuIPfRY/qIeAzUeK IdqA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.139.198 with SMTP id ra6mr3525027lbb.15.1431103275750; Fri, 08 May 2015 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Fri, 8 May 2015 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 11:41:15 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: DHCP Solution for SADR From: Behcet Sarikaya To: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 16:41:21 -0000 Hi all, I submitted my proposed DHCPv6 solution for SADR, it can found below. Kind regards, Behcet A new version of I-D, draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr Revision: 01 Title: DHCPv6 Solution for Source Address Dependent Routing Document date: 2015-05-08 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 14 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-sarikaya-dhc-6man-dhcpv6-sadr-01 Abstract: This document describes DHCPv6 solution for provisioning DHCPv6 client nodes for the next hop, IPv6 route prefixes and source address/prefixes the next hop supports. Using these options, an operator can configure multi-homed nodes where other means of source address dependent route configuration may be impractical. From nobody Fri May 8 20:10:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA9F1A88F6 for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 20:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.102 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ZTudsaI0zNr for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 20:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm28.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm28.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.187]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 942D91A875B for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 20:10:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1431141019; bh=RtwLAVO9JNOZEBGFsKZR85FXpOl7Hs9V+k7lwwoWFLI=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=Xg+us6aTIROxe8xTU3mjU4hPoSiGYfCwyx95tJz+/pjzWKiZoocp3iLwBr0dfK2EpueyYPL6YpyD1P4YnPWZLFSs/S6+7UHenbSo9kDn72JhooyN7pQ7s3O8pCftS06wLH6QBZRG0LO3iVUQPg0/8xQYTmGzmkuO3iX2maJ6VoO1LdkY7U3/P6yAEcdJJqAe9n8frdAqJuW7azvMnaJ2m5F6FGexTJjwNGBdQUxXqbQVxUzolPYe+0ApmjTjlnx0H50Q58YKExyJgI5x06oX09zj8CEgud6GVOFzcOajPtOTEHp5g9ziH86FfdRVBoWkp/R4RWROrUnJwTluDtrmRw== Received: from [66.196.81.170] by nm28.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2015 03:10:19 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.250] by tm16.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2015 03:10:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2015 03:10:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 748192.50646.bm@omp1059.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: 3Qqm.MIVM1lAq3zQ2iFAuNKuIf5rNpD61HHXEbD8HOgjfmwyQUTubExk7AHptaH jcJy7dCI9Lt8HM78vhBLtEy0pUYfVJKeaFyvNPQskhMojNXGuRutG49HCJw5uKbLYxt8AFrLisg6 xNVwDiH0l9Atkum_afIUgdDm_in8nDRvlOOFWieRr5HrY2qNnWhATRl6Nefm2jRfzJZWSlDlpvai 7h0nNcILVxX.rc.tJnV.qweRCXSLsWVCF_y6RFrVviUynfz9K7KTdWkhw_3Nz2mahndxNaZld4MZ 27Y85Knsy3iFgc.co6QyKy4F.ABdf5NWNPrborXOywiKe60mMH_Z4r79R3rrkHo5nNQUkjczZyx1 _jVh7i12YzIwEn6F7VYJIHJxnmkrdCRcUOJuyIevb7VFRuupjLPIYRO4b1XQlUCED1gzZAfF.3OT MQHidMekPvX2NpCWjBe6zIewUIx8RJTwq6sy2uumSWyKuV2XYXvwx9lVfRgSTs3.oJCleLaW8Ob2 p05o.JM7PHDO7pp_uO_3QzBxOpx62KbqzLasz9sF1ew-- Received: by 76.13.26.127; Sat, 09 May 2015 03:10:19 +0000 Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 03:10:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: "Liushucheng (Will)" Message-ID: <1060178747.3881999.1431141018598.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3881998_1558727824.1431141018587" Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 03:10:29 -0000 ------=_Part_3881998_1558727824.1431141018587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Liushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith =20 Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" =20 Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015, 15:58 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =20 #yiv1860984976 #yiv1860984976 -- _filtered #yiv1860984976 {font-family:Helv= etica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1860984976 {font-family= :=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1860984976= {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1860984976 {font-family:Cali= bri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1860984976 {panose-1:2 1 = 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}#yiv1860984976 #yiv1860984976 p.yiv1860984976MsoNormal, #y= iv1860984976 li.yiv1860984976MsoNormal, #yiv1860984976 div.yiv1860984976Mso= Normal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5= =AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1860984976 a:link, #yiv1860984976 span.yiv1860984976Ms= oHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1860984976 a:visited,= #yiv1860984976 span.yiv1860984976MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-d= ecoration:underline;}#yiv1860984976 span.yiv1860984976EmailStyle17 {color:#= 1F497D;}#yiv1860984976 .yiv1860984976MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _fil= tered #yiv1860984976 {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}#yiv1860984976 di= v.yiv1860984976WordSection1 {}#yiv1860984976 Hi Mark, =C2=A0 Thank you for= your comments. The part you added makes sense. We will update the document= accordingly.=20 / A further little thought, perhaps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the text I s= uggested, since the IPv6 IIDs are not going to be following the IID recomme= ndations in the document? Regards,Mark. =C2=A0 Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) =C2=A0=20 From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Mark ZZZ Smith Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:50 AM To: internet-drafts@ietf.org; i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi, = =C2=A0 I've one suggestion for the following text (**s) =C2=A0 "It is RECO= MMENDED by this document that future specifications do not =C2=A0 =C2=A0spe= cify IPv6 address generation schemes that embed the underlying =C2=A0 =C2= =A0link-layer address in the IID. =C2=A0Future specifications MAY use an II= D =C2=A0 =C2=A0based on a node's link-layer address if design and engineeri= ng =C2=A0 =C2=A0considerations warrant. ** Note that some link-layers suppo= rt locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2001], such as [IEEE 802= .3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs= are to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that the ra= ndom addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-random = locally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used.***"= =C2=A0 Regards, Mark. =C2=A0 From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org=20 Cc: ipv6@ietf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53 Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= . =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Fernando G= ont =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alissa Cooper =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dave Thaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Will Liu =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 9 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2015-05-= 06 Abstract: =C2=A0 The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format =C2=A0 Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s =C2=A0 specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link- =C2=A0 layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6 =C2=A0 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).=C2=A0 The security and =C2=A0 privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the =C2=A0 Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time =C2=A0 now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m =C2=A0 such schemes to mitigate these issues.=C2=A0 This document changes t= he =C2=A0 recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC =C2=A0 to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link- =C2=A0 layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.=C2=A0 It formally upd= ates =C2=A0 RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590, =C2=A0 RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and =C2=A0 RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from =C2=A0 the underlying link-layer address.=C2=A0 Additionally, this document =C2=A0 provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with =C2=A0 other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host =C2=A0 Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 ------=_Part_3881998_1558727824.1431141018587 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable





From: L= iushucheng (Will) <liushucheng@huawei.com>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au= >
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.or= g" <ipv6@ietf.org>; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" <= ;draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015, 15:58
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6= man-default-iids-03.txt

Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
Thank you for your comments. The part you added makes sense.= We will update the document accordingly.
=20

/ A further little thought, perhaps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the = text I suggested, since the IPv6 IIDs are not going to be following the IID= recommendations in the document?

Regards,
Mark.
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Will (Shucheng LIU)
=20
 
=20


From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark ZZZ Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:50 AM
To: internet-drafts@ietf.org; i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt<= /div>=20
 
=20
Hi,=20
 
=20
I've one suggestion for the following text (**s)<= /span>
=20
 
=20
"It is RECOMM= ENDED by this document that future specifications do not
=20
   specify IPv6 address generation sche= mes that embed the underlying
=20
   link-layer address in the IID.  Fu= ture specifications MAY use an IID
=20
   = based on a node's link-layer address if design and engineering
= =20
   considerations warrant. ** Note that= some link-layers support locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2= 001], such as [IEEE 802.3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs ar= e to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that the rando= m addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-random loc= ally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used.***"
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20

From: "<= a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.or= g" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-draf= ts@ietf.org" <interne= t-drafts@ietf.org>
To: i-d-ann= ounce@ietf.org
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
=20


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= .

        Title          : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers
        Authors        : Fernando G= ont
                     = ;     Alissa Cooper
                     = ;     Dave Thaler
                     = ;     Will Liu
    Filename        : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt
    Pages          : 9
    Date            : 2015-05-= 06

Abstract:
  The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format
  Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s
  specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link-   layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6   Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).  The security and<= br clear=3D"none">   privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the
  Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time   now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m
  such schemes to mitigate these issues.  This document changes t= he
  recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC=
  to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link-=
  layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.  It formally upd= ates
  RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590,
  RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and   RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from=
  the underlying link-layer address.  Additionally, this document=
  provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with   other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host
  Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration.<= br clear=3D"none">

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids= /

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03<= br clear=3D"none">
A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-defa= ult-iids-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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--------------------------------------------------------------------

=20


------=_Part_3881998_1558727824.1431141018587-- From linping@avaya.com Fri May 8 11:23:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46E31B2E84 for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 11:23:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CAmnv8Lc8DYm for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E21F1B2E82 for ; Fri, 8 May 2015 11:23:41 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AisFANT+TFXGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABcgkUhKCMxZMZFGwGGDgKBPUwBAQEBAQGBC4QhAQEBAxIbTBIBCAQJFVYmAQQODRqICgGqU55NAQEBAQYBAQEBAQEBG4s6hFQxgjQMQR2BFgWSO5JQjmIjYYEFghGCNIEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,391,1427774400"; d="scan'208,217";a="101862529" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 May 2015 14:23:29 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-US1EXHC04.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.85.15]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 08 May 2015 14:23:29 -0400 Received: from AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com ([fe80::c01d:740:c927:8888]) by AZ-US1EXHC04.global.avaya.com ([135.11.85.15]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 8 May 2015 14:23:27 -0400 From: "Lin, Ping (Ping)" To: "ipv6@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicg== Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 18:23:26 +0000 Message-ID: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.85.49] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070FAZUS1EXMB02glob_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 09 May 2015 06:12:19 -0700 Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 18:25:03 -0000 --_000_76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070FAZUS1EXMB02glob_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I was wondering if you could help with a question about RECONFIG in DHCPv6: RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE m= essage. If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFI= GURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice? Thanks very much, Ping Lin --_000_76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070FAZUS1EXMB02glob_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Everyone,

 

I was wondering if you could help with a question ab= out RECONFIG in DHCPv6:

 

RFC 3736 ind= icates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE message. &nbs= p;If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFIGURE su= pport for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice?

 

Thanks very much,

Ping Lin=

 

 

 

--_000_76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070FAZUS1EXMB02glob_-- From nobody Sun May 10 07:00:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B111A90BD for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TqNDGCsxL9AC for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 07:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E4021A90BC for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 07:00:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7547; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431266445; x=1432476045; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=urhRh6dytIQIEZu5UhjQ30oR9XK9656AdqZ/Fzteii8=; b=Cu30BMyrkDNGNfiO+K/6kL7ZTbDCs9MJj7JAX7BA4CMoonAkJ4lYOiXa IZAneAXvu/brNJFrHEV0VEE0DEBX6kSPSSyohAUSkKzNfpSacGoNdWx4+ UUz93wwhVm/r3bw52GBl9zRB5l+35abkTneEziPqBxdVVvfUYiSNV95MD 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BcBABbZE9V/5xdJa1cgkVKVF7EYwmBTgEJhgUCgRY4FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQhAQEEAQEBKkELEAIBCD8HJwsUEQEBBA4FiCwNxkUBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIs5hDpHBAYBgxeBFgWGX4teimOWVyNhgQWCEW+CRgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,401,1427760000"; d="scan'208,217";a="148774548" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 May 2015 14:00:44 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4AE0itd002142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 May 2015 14:00:44 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.220]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 10 May 2015 09:00:44 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Lin, Ping (Ping)" Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9Z Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:00:43 +0000 Message-ID: <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_552BA9B1F4194E2290DB713B3C2EF963ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:00:47 -0000 --_000_552BA9B1F4194E2290DB713B3C2EF963ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is usuall= y used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires authenticat= ion and so only applies to the cases that can use authentication - and use = of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. T= he RFC 3315 bis work will remove much of the authentication support (except= for Reconfigure Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful. The RFC 3736 document is really not something I would recommend following -= see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you need (such as only Info= rmation-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrate that stateless = dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement. Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and then later the server's co= nfiguration has changed, a Reconfigure message specifying the client should= send Information-Request is allowed (if only "other congifuration" options= have changed). I don't have any good data as to how important Reconfigure is and it is opt= ional for client and server to implement/support - client specifies whether= it can support it when RKAP is used. There are some uses where it is requi= red, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards= ). But whether this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server p= roviders make use of it) is unclear. - Bernie (from iPad) On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) > wrote: Hi Everyone, I was wondering if you could help with a question about RECONFIG in DHCPv6: RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE m= essage. If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFI= GURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice? Thanks very much, Ping Lin -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_552BA9B1F4194E2290DB713B3C2EF963ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is u= sually used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires authen= tication and so only applies to the cases that can use authentication - and= use of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis work will remove much of t= he authentication support (except for Reconfigure Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)= ) - this requires stateful.

The RFC 3736 document is really not something I would recommend follow= ing - see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you need (such as only= Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrate that state= less dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement.

Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and then later the server= 's configuration has changed, a Reconfigure message specifying the client s= hould send Information-Request is allowed (if only "other congifuratio= n" options have changed).

I don't have any good data as to how important Reconfigure is and it i= s optional for client and server to implement/support - client specifies wh= ether it can support it when RKAP is used. There are some uses where it is = required, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards). But whether this is act= ually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server providers make use of it) i= s unclear.

- Bernie (from iPad)

On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) <linping@avaya.com> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

 

I was wondering if you could help with a question ab= out RECONFIG in DHCPv6:

 

RFC 3736 ind= icates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE message. &nbs= p;If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFIGURE su= pport for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice?

 

Thanks very much,

Ping Lin=

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------= ----
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------<= /span>
--_000_552BA9B1F4194E2290DB713B3C2EF963ciscocom_-- From nobody Sun May 10 23:37:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865571A1B45 for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id djlu9zvaZh7x for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3DD41A1B2C for <6man@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oiko83 with SMTP id o83so97284936oik.1 for <6man@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=V8DdRyBvvVj3o1WpSihCuZbw0RjL46WplHX/5yyeT8A=; b=eDhxPPjc1GdHpAeGjatLRYm5F5fZJOuULHAmAMQTgH/SZqHZzlkmSBXOCCdMmF0syJ 7DyTtemKrwVZZbzvHDF5K+RVP5aALDg2Df3GlQmBoIsO6GO0ZH+VuDwZH3f8NXfASkxB JGZWMza3uzp7xjOvt7ax1a2t2AKJ9N9AG76WTYtv/A5L5edUO6HNG5v/fFizaEH9wLGY NqamHq+mhrx/27kKjnOiNX0ZgjI3u+GX942UjNYOGteWM+wMMZ5UgLCbzQW8CHpw3npi /v+p0jSc/f3Y5Ul+G9n9xE+AAcxMw5m/7Tv7MXu1JTSZWiR4P+I3PB/W7IVlKxScdohW 5egA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=V8DdRyBvvVj3o1WpSihCuZbw0RjL46WplHX/5yyeT8A=; b=BZQ1xt8+eFB6GTjkpAuaXt9tzNR9pKZjQcg12hnjFbseAG85BTuukQFGEHoitzjskU powN20vFs9WywYOfTsPEPa/1ol/kzL/s6uoG/98aTUmpqlXO0SUDIWkkliA5WlvpbZ9C +plYuW4c2/Cr94Aabl7nIAzJRY6jxHsDD4S2E/gDBKzye6DBmThvzdbgDlPkWUeVPAID qglot9A2+qfo38XqHVumGnw83XbY+hnvmomG6DoCe18ZuELBTpjNw2dl4r92mv+daWGX vMBWcYFDeHmepKBO+Ipf8S7D4fnMzoCsKlPoAQhjPE5OdpXI09xK5M/80I7GTgsvdTPp xhYg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkPk1LFcVviR3AlaHlFTTagFUQXp7Gp+7V9PRqAhCDQM3z3JH/IZkPav4FnPmIoBdCEZmUL X-Received: by 10.182.133.40 with SMTP id oz8mr6901172obb.68.1431326253968; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.160.65 with HTTP; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:37:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:37:13 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [dhcwg] DHCP Solution for SADR To: Behcet Sarikaya Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1ce14ed4a370515c89cd2 Archived-At: Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org" , "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 06:37:36 -0000 --e89a8ff1ce14ed4a370515c89cd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Behcet Sarikaya wrote: > Abstract: > This document describes DHCPv6 solution for provisioning DHCPv6 > client nodes for the next hop, IPv6 route prefixes and source > address/prefixes the next hop supports. Using these options, an > operator can configure multi-homed nodes where other means of source > address dependent route configuration may be impractical. > Behcet, looks like this option still has the same drawback (no fate sharing) that raised so much opposition in your previous RA-based SADR draft. In addition, it has the drawback that it is much harder to give hosts updated route information, because RECONFIGURE is optional, and does not work if the server crashes and loses state. Given that the previous draft encountered so much opposition, why introduce this new document, given that the properties of the option it introduces are worse? Regards, Lorenzo --e89a8ff1ce14ed4a370515c89cd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= at, May 9, 2015 at 1:41 AM, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com= > wrote:
Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes DHCPv6 solution for provisioning DHCPv= 6
=C2=A0 =C2=A0client nodes for the next hop, IPv6 route prefixes and source<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0address/prefixes the next hop supports.=C2=A0 Using these opti= ons, an
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operator can configure multi-homed nodes where other means of = source
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address dependent route configuration may be impractical.
<= /blockquote>

Behcet,

looks like= this option still has the same drawback (no fate sharing) that raised so m= uch opposition in your previous RA-based SADR draft.

In addition, it has the drawback that it is much harder to give hosts up= dated route information, because RECONFIGURE is optional, and does not work= if the server crashes and loses state.

Given that= the previous draft encountered so much opposition, why introduce this new = document, given that the properties of the option it introduces are worse?<= /div>

Regards,
Lorenzo
--e89a8ff1ce14ed4a370515c89cd2-- From nobody Mon May 11 05:21:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF461A1BCC for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w10BwlmHDRpH for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AFD01A1BBC for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:21:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.23] (EHLO alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.4-5) with ESMTP id ece90555.2b6aff451940.3410478.00-2480.9549338.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 11 May 2015 12:21:34 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 55509ece5b64c090-b8e96f7a0591b491443c8658ea916d9ad4cf2e46 Received: from unknown [144.160.229.23] (EHLO alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.4-5) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id cae90555.0.3410248.00-2359.9548647.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 11 May 2015 12:21:03 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 55509eaf3481952d-28df5493e5af28e0fb54d0d9749c141c21f048a8 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4BCKxV8026083; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:20:59 -0400 Received: from alpi132.aldc.att.com (alpi132.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.2]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4BCKsi7026046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 May 2015 08:20:56 -0400 Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAC.ITServices.sbc.com (GAALPA1MSGHUBAC.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.218.152]) by alpi132.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 11 May 2015 12:20:40 GMT Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.168]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAC.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.152]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:20:39 -0400 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "Lin, Ping (Ping)" Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAA= Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:20:39 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.214.253] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0GAALPA1MSGUSRBF_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Id0wrxWa c=1 sm=1 a=VXHOiMMwGAwA+y4G3/O+aw==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=hH2JK3_J2zYA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqp] X-AnalysisOut: [o32RAAAA:8 a=h1PgugrvaO0A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=gEsRDbIwAA] X-AnalysisOut: [AA:8 a=vn-yODhrJ1B-JpdCrtkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=yMhMjlub] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:1] X-AnalysisOut: [0 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=OiVSdW6wLdS567p2:2] X-AnalysisOut: [1] X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.23] Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:21:39 -0000 --_000_2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0GAALPA1MSGUSRBF_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's required for pretty much every CE router that wants to connect to a "s= tandard" ISP access network. Not just DOCSIS. It's required in BBF TR-124 a= nd RFC 7084. But according to conversations I've had with various telco ISP= s, it is about having the capability there just in case it's needed to forc= ibly renumber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I'm also not aware of any cas= es where it's actually been used. But unless there is widespread unhappines= s or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would n= ever expect to hear of such cases. Barbara From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz) Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM To: Lin, Ping (Ping) Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is usuall= y used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires authenticat= ion and so only applies to the cases that can use authentication - and use = of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. T= he RFC 3315 bis work will remove much of the authentication support (except= for Reconfigure Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful. The RFC 3736 document is really not something I would recommend following -= see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you need (such as only Info= rmation-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrate that stateless = dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement. Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and then later the server's co= nfiguration has changed, a Reconfigure message specifying the client should= send Information-Request is allowed (if only "other congifuration" options= have changed). I don't have any good data as to how important Reconfigure is and it is opt= ional for client and server to implement/support - client specifies whether= it can support it when RKAP is used. There are some uses where it is requi= red, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards= ). But whether this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server p= roviders make use of it) is unclear. - Bernie (from iPad) On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) > wrote: Hi Everyone, I was wondering if you could help with a question about RECONFIG in DHCPv6: RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE m= essage. If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFI= GURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice? Thanks very much, Ping Lin -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0GAALPA1MSGUSRBF_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It’s required for pretty much every CE router = that wants to connect to a “standard” ISP access network. Not j= ust DOCSIS. It’s required in BBF TR-124 and RFC 7084. But according t= o conversations I’ve had with various telco ISPs, it is about having the capability there just in case it’s needed to forcibly ren= umber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I’m also not aware of any cases= where it’s actually been used. But unless there is widespread unhapp= iness or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would never expect to hear of such cases.

Barbara

 

From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM
To: Lin, Ping (Ping)
Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6

 

For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (= see RFC 4242) is usually used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigu= re requires authentication and so only applies to the cases that can use au= thentication - and use of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis w= ork will remove much of the authentication support (except for Reconfigure = Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful.

 

The RFC 3736 document is really not something I woul= d recommend following - see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you = need (such as only Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demo= nstrate that stateless dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement.

 

Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and the= n later the server's configuration has changed, a Reconfigure message speci= fying the client should send Information-Request is allowed (if only "= other congifuration" options have changed).

 

I don't have any good data as to how important Recon= figure is and it is optional for client and server to implement/support - c= lient specifies whether it can support it when RKAP is used. There are some= uses where it is required, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards). But wheth= er this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server providers mak= e use of it) is unclear.

 

- Bernie (from iPad)


On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) <linping@avaya.com> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

 

I was wondering if you could help with a question ab= out RECONFIG in DHCPv6:

 

RFC 3736 ind= icates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE message. &nbs= p;If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFIGURE su= pport for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice?

 

Thanks very much,

Ping Lin

 <= /o:p>

 

 

------------------------------------------------= --------------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------

--_000_2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0GAALPA1MSGUSRBF_-- From nobody Mon May 11 05:30:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDA91A1C02 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YSS8hlEqh5Bw for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5030E1A1C00 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5938; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431347440; x=1432557040; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=iUqWDoyNPcOI3Nj2Pp9wn/i69/rdhsKvuN7/Zs3RyRk=; b=mfDABhOLVTALw97rOueFO0VzbRMeTtTdC8rgOkRwrQvvvAacbciifNZn bYhBQzYKambpF0kN2DbOICayyATyY/3JofkBc6NYL/XKjPJJEoylgFMD2 1iejBdi0G5a4ONU+JQYpKpI5528gdm0UqAWVMzYtbDG+vCl1473LCuVO4 w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A4BQC2n1BV/4oNJK1cgkVKVF4GzFACgS9MAQEBAQEBgQuEIAEBAQQtTBACAQgRBAEBCx0HMhQJCAEBBAENBQiIJMc+AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4s5hFQmCwYBgxeBFgWSPaE6I2GBBSMcgVJvgUWBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,406,1427760000"; d="scan'208,217";a="418767364" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 12:30:39 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com [173.37.183.80]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4BCUdaA019226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2015 12:30:39 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.6.48]) by xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([173.37.183.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:30:39 -0500 From: "Hemant Singh (shemant)" To: "STARK, BARBARA H" , "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "Lin, Ping (Ping)" Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAAAIUt4A== Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: <75B6FA9F576969419E42BECB86CB1B8916886D8B@xmb-rcd-x06.cisco.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.245.44] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_75B6FA9F576969419E42BECB86CB1B8916886D8Bxmbrcdx06ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:30:42 -0000 --_000_75B6FA9F576969419E42BECB86CB1B8916886D8Bxmbrcdx06ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Bernie said, authentication is an issue with DHCPv6 Reconfigure. Curren= tly, how are folks testing Reconfigure and its authentication step? Hemant From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of STARK, BARBARA H Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 8:21 AM To: Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping) Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 It's required for pretty much every CE router that wants to connect to a "s= tandard" ISP access network. Not just DOCSIS. It's required in BBF TR-124 a= nd RFC 7084. But according to conversations I've had with various telco ISP= s, it is about having the capability there just in case it's needed to forc= ibly renumber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I'm also not aware of any cas= es where it's actually been used. But unless there is widespread unhappines= s or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would n= ever expect to hear of such cases. Barbara --_000_75B6FA9F576969419E42BECB86CB1B8916886D8Bxmbrcdx06ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As Bernie said, authen= tication is an issue with DHCPv6 Reconfigure.  Currently, how are folk= s testing Reconfigure and its authentication step?

 

Hemant

 

From: ipv6 [ma= ilto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of STARK, BARBARA H
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 8:21 AM
To: Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping)
Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6

 

It’s required for pretty much every CE router = that wants to connect to a “standard” ISP access network. Not j= ust DOCSIS. It’s required in BBF TR-124 and RFC 7084. But according t= o conversations I’ve had with various telco ISPs, it is about having the capability there just in case it’s needed to forcibly ren= umber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I’m also not aware of any cases= where it’s actually been used. But unless there is widespread unhapp= iness or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would never expect to hear of such cases.

Barbara

--_000_75B6FA9F576969419E42BECB86CB1B8916886D8Bxmbrcdx06ciscoc_-- From nobody Mon May 11 06:15:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BA41A8025 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:15:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.102 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IL08Uvr0I5yj for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm25-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm25-vm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23E971A7D82 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:15:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1431350108; bh=n8hY7Du65ThBSfpO7OrxUZqz9o55WoODwaa6q5JZCqc=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=gj89G5t5kMqhgOBso35tnLTii9ZVv4Yv7f1ZmfXqoI425slI3FfYaUTjjMY/A69oFxT1s/7BNRaxrpfTxxvujwJRdoF2aaP9T3hLSwPnChuIQRB8CW0gaZeQho/L2ks5gWA1OiBTmuglGjRIVL9em0rYyyofiC4ePupl7QFj7gCHLKUg00FOK1mlao5k/mao4eEWoJ1DiqCkwz9AcAu3MJ77r4/meZKjYHMm9H8qDmd0WXwFRhxzpPpeHQ27qVVbngBGm3+vkhIiQTsRBcZGu8UAnqnCkSQ8w8pKQTbb0xx/R8ErOElNKowjrsofqWz5Ycqwq9yD2Q+Y9yCWH/5eww== Received: from [98.139.170.181] by nm25.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2015 13:15:08 -0000 Received: from [98.139.215.230] by tm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2015 13:15:08 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1070.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 May 2015 13:15:08 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 209166.23033.bm@omp1070.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: Gc8pg4gVM1kW2nXqMr7TqBE0PXEz.1zPDzYHhd3GFmhf0qsImUNe28Lrxr6VDVy fgaqVekn9rVqXVcHYwSBEuZcdaHCILLbyXxMWdJvh.EH7KRmpyT31GBf537mjw0M0a5ApL42.Bx_ i3xlhhuY53ArCl2aJjmOXNhH1p7wyCgU1Shle.w.HIr5QqtHR0GG57R.qzUOFgkSnkwtwaFcB4r7 AiMKR5_ThOCOuYHqYnLq2DQ.KKeJQ.0rdAlkBmMgyzyQu2weYr_KJvg2RFbzuHb89.3gS9oh0jCc y8CKRZRw6gwktrLkoJZRUZK_ZAbgNQ9RLR5tIaWqdXoobIrNTQ5bkCS9shAocD4MD5cXRuA5R2Ht m8_n64iJd3iMNpmQYKem1PlOwjQ2Tvo.v7x4f_Ml_AZ9y62RrmrxCQnu_MIWSHUBAo71oSgCPtXt Co7a6MfdcmX21HNwd60llO42suuDnKFumHQNij5Kx3sKO4YawR9Ik8C4.rWhKJ7MStpRIU5HmdJl 26YKHp_ibPZinfgqVHRvh36ousHCK619coI2nHcFd6bY- Received: by 76.13.27.133; Mon, 11 May 2015 13:15:07 +0000 Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:15:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: "STARK, BARBARA H" , "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "Lin, Ping (Ping)" Message-ID: <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5027863_102921834.1431350106568" Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:15:11 -0000 ------=_Part_5027863_102921834.1431350106568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: Bernie Volz (volz) ; "Lin, Ping (Ping)" =20 Cc: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" ; "ipv6@ietf.org" =20 Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015, 22:20 Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 =20 #yiv2206513416 #yiv2206513416 -- _filtered #yiv2206513416 {panose-1:2 4 5 3= 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2206513416 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 = 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv2206513416 #yiv2206513416 p.yiv2206513416MsoNormal, #y= iv2206513416 li.yiv2206513416MsoNormal, #yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416Mso= Normal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv2206513416 a= :link, #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decor= ation:underline;}#yiv2206513416 a:visited, #yiv2206513416 span.yiv220651341= 6MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv22065134= 16 p.yiv2206513416MsoListParagraph, #yiv2206513416 li.yiv2206513416MsoListP= aragraph, #yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0in;= margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;f= ont-size:11.0pt;}#yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle18 {color:windo= wtext;}#yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle19 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv22= 06513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle20 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv2206513416 span= .yiv2206513416EmailStyle21 {color:windowtext;}#yiv2206513416 .yiv2206513416= MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2206513416 {margin:1.0in 1.= 0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416WordSection1 {}#yiv2206513= 416 It=E2=80=99s required for pretty much every CE router that wants to con= nect to a =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D ISP access network. Not just DOCSIS. I= t=E2=80=99s required in BBF TR-124 and RFC 7084. But according to conversat= ions I=E2=80=99ve had with various telco ISPs, it is about having the capab= ility there just in case it=E2=80=99s needed to forcibly renumber (IA_PD or= IA_NA) the CE router. I=E2=80=99m also not aware of any cases where it=E2= =80=99s actually been used. But unless there is widespread unhappiness or v= ery vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would never e= xpect to hear of such cases. Barbara / I think these conversations you've had with various ISPs show a lack of u= nderstanding of IPv6's mechanisms to support transitioning between one addr= ess space and another. I think the perceived need for "flash renumbering" d= isappears when you have the ability to start expressing addressing preferen= ces via preferred and valid lifetimes and an understanding of IPv6's addres= s src/dst address selection rules. / Regards,Mark. =C2=A0=20 From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf OfBernie Volz (volz) Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM To: Lin, Ping (Ping) Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 =C2=A0 For stateless DHCPv6, = the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is usually used to cause period= ic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires authentication and so only applie= s to the cases that can use authentication - and use of authentication with= Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis work w= ill remove much of the authentication support (except for Reconfigure Key A= uth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful. =C2=A0 The RFC 3736 docume= nt is really not something I would recommend following - see full RFC 3315 = and implement those features you need (such as only Information-Request and= Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrate that stateless dhcpv6 was rather s= imple to implement. =C2=A0 Technically if a client has done Solicit/... an= d then later the server's configuration has changed, a Reconfigure message = specifying the client should send Information-Request is allowed (if only "= other congifuration" options have changed). =C2=A0 I don't have any good d= ata as to how important Reconfigure is and it is optional for client and se= rver to implement/support - client specifies whether it can support it when= RKAP is used. There are some uses where it is required, such as for CableL= abs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards). But whether this is = actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server providers make use of it= ) is unclear. =C2=A0 - Bernie (from iPad)=20 On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) wrote:=20 Hi Everyone, =C2=A0 I was wondering if you could help with a question about= RECONFIG in DHCPv6: =C2=A0 RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does n= ot support the RECONFIGURE message. =C2=A0If this is the case for stateless= DHCPv6, how important is RECONFIGURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how m= uch is it used in practice? =C2=A0 Thanks very much, Ping Lin =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 --------------------------------------------------------------------=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------=_Part_5027863_102921834.1431350106568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com><= br> To: Bernie Volz (volz)= <volz@cisco.com>; "Lin, Ping (Ping)" <linping@avaya.com>
<= b>Cc: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)"= <dmudric@avaya.com>; "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
<= span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent: Monday, 11 May 2015, 22:= 20
Subject: RE: Questi= on re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6

#yiv2206513416 #yiv2206513416 -- =20 _filtered #yiv2206513416 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2206513416 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 = 4;} #yiv2206513416 =20 #yiv2206513416 p.yiv2206513416MsoNormal, #yiv2206513416 li.yiv2206513416Mso= Normal, #yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416MsoNormal =09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;} #yiv2206513416 a:link, #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2206513416 a:visited, #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416MsoHyperlinkFoll= owed =09{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv2206513416 p.yiv2206513416MsoListParagraph, #yiv2206513416 li.yiv220651= 3416MsoListParagraph, #yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416MsoListParagraph =09{margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;marg= in-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;} #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle18 =09{color:windowtext;} #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle19 =09{color:#1F497D;} #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle20 =09{color:#1F497D;} #yiv2206513416 span.yiv2206513416EmailStyle21 =09{color:windowtext;} #yiv2206513416 .yiv2206513416MsoChpDefault =09{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2206513416 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv2206513416 div.yiv2206513416WordSection1 =09{} #yiv2206513416
It=E2=80=99s required for pretty much every CE router that wants to conn= ect to a =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D ISP access network. Not just DOCSIS. It= =E2=80=99s required in BBF TR-124 and RFC 7084. But according to conversati= ons I=E2=80=99ve had with various telco ISPs, it is about having the capability there just in case it=E2=80=99s needed to forcibly r= enumber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I=E2=80=99m also not aware of any c= ases where it=E2=80=99s actually been used. But unless there is widespread = unhappiness or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would never expect to hear of such cases.
=20
Barbara


/ I think these co= nversations you've had with various ISPs show a lack of understanding of IP= v6's mechanisms to support transitioning between one address space and anot= her. I think the perceived need for "flash renumbering" disappears when you= have the ability to start expressing addressing preferences via preferred = and valid lifetimes and an understanding of IPv6's address src/dst address = selection rules.

/ Regards,
Mark.
=20
 
=20


From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM
To: Lin, Ping (Ping)
Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6
=20
 
=20
For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is usu= ally used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires authenti= cation and so only applies to the cases that can use authentication - and u= se of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis w= ork will remove much of the authentication support (except for Reconfigure = Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful.
=20
 
=20
The RFC 3736 document is really not s= omething I would recommend following - see full RFC 3315 and implement thos= e features you need (such as only Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was = written to demonstrate that stateless dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement.
=20
 
=20
Technically if a client has done Soli= cit/... and then later the server's configuration has changed, a Reconfigur= e message specifying the client should send Information-Request is allowed = (if only "other congifuration" options have changed).
=20
 
=20
I don't have any good data as to how = important Reconfigure is and it is optional for client and server to implem= ent/support - client specifies whether it can support it when RKAP is used.= There are some uses where it is required, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards). But wheth= er this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server providers mak= e use of it) is unclear.
=20
 
=20
- Bernie (from iPad)
=20

On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) <linping@avaya.com> wrote:
=20
Hi Everyone,
=20
 
=20
I was wondering if you could help wit= h a question about RECONFIG in DHCPv6:
=20
 
=20
RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGU= RE message.  If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important i= s RECONFIGURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in practice?
=20
 
=20
Tha= nks very much,
=20
Pin= g Lin
=20
&nb= sp;
=20
 
=20
 
=20
---= -----------------------------------------------------------------
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ipv6
--------------------------------------------------------------------
=
=20

--------------= ------------------------------------------------------
IE= TF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests:
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
---------------------------= -----------------------------------------


<= /div>
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RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAACpAvAAAH1+VQ Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:57:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.85.50] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914AZUS1EXMB03glob_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:57:25 -0000 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X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlwqc5DB7L8r9KswTa052Imqxw1r5UEy1AFOVgbpzvOYZaap4BKuSBq4mt9Ha4IvKtdbckP X-Received: by 10.60.95.3 with SMTP id dg3mr8009248oeb.40.1431353956424; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.160.65 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:18:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 23:18:55 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 To: "STARK, BARBARA H" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e011772671f07ce0515cf1032 Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 14:19:26 -0000 --089e011772671f07ce0515cf1032 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The best characterization of this situation I've heard is from Steven: CPE routers "are supposed to must" implement reconfigure. :-) I don't know that it would be wise for an operator to rely on reconfigure support in CPEs unless they had stringent acceptance testing and certified the CPEs themselves. On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:20 PM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > It=E2=80=99s required for pretty much every CE router that wants to conn= ect to a > =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D ISP access network. Not just DOCSIS. It=E2=80= =99s required in BBF TR-124 > and RFC 7084. But according to conversations I=E2=80=99ve had with variou= s telco > ISPs, it is about having the capability there just in case it=E2=80=99s n= eeded to > forcibly renumber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I=E2=80=99m also not aw= are of any > cases where it=E2=80=99s actually been used. But unless there is widespre= ad > unhappiness or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering inciden= t, > I would never expect to hear of such cases. > > Barbara > > > > *From:* ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Bernie Volz > (volz) > *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM > *To:* Lin, Ping (Ping) > *Cc:* Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 > > > > For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (see RFC 4242) is > usually used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigure requires > authentication and so only applies to the cases that can use authenticati= on > - and use of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from > RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis work will remove much of the authentication > support (except for Reconfigure Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this require= s > stateful. > > > > The RFC 3736 document is really not something I would recommend following > - see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you need (such as only > Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrate that > stateless dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement. > > > > Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and then later the server's > configuration has changed, a Reconfigure message specifying the client > should send Information-Request is allowed (if only "other congifuration" > options have changed). > > > > I don't have any good data as to how important Reconfigure is and it is > optional for client and server to implement/support - client specifies > whether it can support it when RKAP is used. There are some uses where it > is required, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs > standards). But whether this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.= e. > server providers make use of it) is unclear. > > > > - Bernie (from iPad) > > > On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I was wondering if you could help with a question about RECONFIG in DHCPv= 6: > > > > RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv6 does not support the RECONFIGURE > message. If this is the case for stateless DHCPv6, how important is > RECONFIGURE support for stateful DHCPv6 and how much is it used in > practice? > > > > Thanks very much, > > Ping Lin > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --089e011772671f07ce0515cf1032 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The best characterization of this situation I've heard= is from Steven: CPE routers "are supposed to must" implement rec= onfigure. :-)

I don't know that it would be wise for= an operator to rely on reconfigure support in CPEs unless they had stringe= nt acceptance testing and certified the CPEs themselves.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at = 9:20 PM, STARK, BARBARA H <bs7652@att.com> wrote:

It=E2=80=99s required for pretty much every CE route= r that wants to connect to a =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D ISP access network.= Not just DOCSIS. It=E2=80=99s required in BBF TR-124 and RFC 7084. But acc= ording to conversations I=E2=80=99ve had with various telco ISPs, it is abo= ut having the capability there just in case it=E2=80=99s needed to forcibly r= enumber (IA_PD or IA_NA) the CE router. I=E2=80=99m also not aware of any c= ases where it=E2=80=99s actually been used. But unless there is widespread = unhappiness or very vocal singular unhappiness over a renumbering incident, I would never expect to hear of such cases.

Barbara

=C2=A0

From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Volz (volz)
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:01 AM
To: Lin, Ping (Ping)
Cc: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6

=C2=A0

For stateless DHCPv6, the Information Refresh Time (= see RFC 4242) is usually used to cause periodic client refreshes. Reconfigu= re requires authentication and so only applies to the cases that can use au= thentication - and use of authentication with Information-Request only is unclear from RFC 3315. The RFC 3315 bis w= ork will remove much of the authentication support (except for Reconfigure = Key Auth. Protocol (RKAP)) - this requires stateful.

=C2=A0

The RFC 3736 document is really not something I woul= d recommend following - see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you = need (such as only Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demo= nstrate that stateless dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement.

=C2=A0

Technically if a client has done Solicit/... and the= n later the server's configuration has changed, a Reconfigure message s= pecifying the client should send Information-Request is allowed (if only &q= uot;other congifuration" options have changed).

=C2=A0

I don't have any good data as to how important R= econfigure is and it is optional for client and server to implement/support= - client specifies whether it can support it when RKAP is used. There are = some uses where it is required, such as for CableLabs DOCSIS Cable Modems (see the CableLabs standards). But wheth= er this is actually used in the field for DOCSIS (i.e. server providers mak= e use of it) is unclear.

=C2=A0

- Bernie (from iPad)


On May 9, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Lin, Ping (Ping) <linping@avaya.com> wrote:=

Hi Everyone,

=C2=A0

I was wondering if you could help with a question ab= out RECONFIG in DHCPv6:

=C2=A0

RFC 3736 indicates that stateless DHCPv= 6 does not support the RECONFIGURE message.=C2=A0 If this is the case for s= tateless DHCPv6, how important is RECONFIGURE support for stateful DHCPv6 a= nd how much is it used in practice?

=C2=A0

Thanks very much,

Ping Lin<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

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--089e011772671f07ce0515cf1032-- From nobody Mon May 11 08:46:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF091ACDB2 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T80a5TUEORFB for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 714C61ACDB7 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbhj9 with SMTP id hj9so74087175igb.1 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rkVWTc3UeQGL9LBdTxkFjNw8BHcOLvUmososod/xY6Q=; b=y09pWSl1wZhGnqB6PKXohG9C2FAlhnVT1Q5+BtXD9SAsKavZUNBx6cT2hsKdMG89vz 1LRoJ8u+U7PBUt4+RkvRfwJEamLyVr7vq/exAQZnKEm5psBE4gIBZ5viJzJzNtaQ/TON LIsygA3bA/RtSnY4YlgNj2qOaQYmDgMYK+rjhF5SQaBwL9YEby/RC8tixz5LNPhf56oJ XuBoHfEaPWP4DkgdQQ9BIJsRtZ/2aaR10l7r6Rdw1tiwa6SgWHfhlxLUHMD+objRBkd4 cOgNi9NIUa0fUacezhXf2d2zQ6gWARFbFwpS9j/Ye38XZzxCUqhnU1DOCwCVyssyEKt4 OXMw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.43.12.136 with SMTP id pi8mr11503890icb.6.1431359184981; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.50.80 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 08:46:24 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cVJ0-X9vxbnum0UN0oJC7C_ayw0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:46:27 -0000 At Mon, 11 May 2015 13:57:17 +0000, "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" wrote: > If RFC4862 =E2=80=9CRemoved the text regarding the M and O flags=E2=80=9D= , does it mean the stateless DHCPv6, RFC 3736, and its management using M a= nd O flags, are not required in industry either? The short answer is "the change in RFC4862 does NOT mean such things". A bit longer answer would be: - It's not clear what you mean by "not required in industry", but whatever an RFC states it's not uncommon that the "industry" ignores what's written in the RFC. So the answer to a question like this would basically always be "No". - Ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 says nothing about whether to support stateless DHCPv6 or at which requirement level. - Also ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 does not deprecate the use of M or O flags by removing text about these flags. See appendix C of the RFC. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Mon May 11 10:02:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16C381ACE01 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 10:02:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id akwBuEm8CHog for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C18E31ACE00 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAFAG3fUFWHCzIm/2dsb2JhbABcgmYpgTIGgxjJQAIcgRlMAQEBAQEBgQuEIAEBAQECARIREUUFBwQCAQgNBAQBAQMCBh0DAgICHxEUAQgIAgQOBQgah3UDCggBqWiKT44zDYUSAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4EhihiCTYIHFhsHBoJiL4EWBZI9iQ0BiUSHeIZwI2GDFm+BRYEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,408,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="115891412" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast-smtpauth.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.38]) by co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 13:02:27 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-US1EXHC04.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.85.15]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 11 May 2015 13:02:27 -0400 Received: from AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com ([fe80::a5d3:ad50:5be9:1922]) by AZ-US1EXHC04.global.avaya.com ([135.11.85.15]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 11 May 2015 13:02:27 -0400 From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" To: =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAACpAvAAAH1+VQ///rhgCAADeGgA== Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 17:02:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.85.50] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 17:02:30 -0000 V2h5IGFyZSB0aGUgTSAmIE8gZmxhZ3Mgbm90IGRlcHJlY2F0ZWQgaWYgUkZDIDI0NjIgaXMgb2Jz b2xldGU/IElmIFJGQyA0ODYyIG9ic29sZXRlcyBSRkMgMjQ2Miwgd2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgdmFsdWUg b2Ygc3VwcG9ydGluZyBNIGFuZCBPIGZsYWdzPyBXaHkgd291bGQgbmV3IGRldmljZXMgc3VwcG9y dCBhbiBvYnNvbGV0ZSBzdGFuZGFyZCAoaS5lLiAyNDYyKT8gQmFja3dhcmQgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0 eT8NCg0KRHVzYW4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGppbm1laS50 YXR1eWFAZ21haWwuY29tIFttYWlsdG86amlubWVpLnRhdHV5YUBnbWFpbC5jb21dIE9uIEJlaGFs ZiBPZiA/Pz8/DQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE1heSAxMSwgMjAxNSAxMTo0NiBBTQ0KVG86IE11ZHJp YywgRHVzYW4gKER1c2FuKQ0KQ2M6IE1hcmsgWlpaIFNtaXRoOyBTVEFSSywgQkFSQkFSQSBIOyBC ZXJuaWUgVm9seiAodm9seik7IExpbiwgUGluZyAoUGluZyk7IGlwdjZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFJlOiBRdWVzdGlvbiByZS4gUkVDT05GSUcgaW4gREhDUHY2DQoNCkF0IE1vbiwgMTEgTWF5 IDIwMTUgMTM6NTc6MTcgKzAwMDAsDQoiTXVkcmljLCBEdXNhbiAoRHVzYW4pIiA8ZG11ZHJpY0Bh dmF5YS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IElmIFJGQzQ4NjIg4oCcUmVtb3ZlZCB0aGUgdGV4dCByZWdh cmRpbmcgdGhlIE0gYW5kIE8gZmxhZ3PigJ0sIGRvZXMgaXQgbWVhbiB0aGUgc3RhdGVsZXNzIERI Q1B2NiwgUkZDIDM3MzYsIGFuZCBpdHMgbWFuYWdlbWVudCB1c2luZyBNIGFuZCBPIGZsYWdzLCBh cmUgbm90IHJlcXVpcmVkIGluIGluZHVzdHJ5IGVpdGhlcj8NCg0KVGhlIHNob3J0IGFuc3dlciBp cyAidGhlIGNoYW5nZSBpbiBSRkM0ODYyIGRvZXMgTk9UIG1lYW4gc3VjaCB0aGluZ3MiLg0KDQpB IGJpdCBsb25nZXIgYW5zd2VyIHdvdWxkIGJlOg0KDQotIEl0J3Mgbm90IGNsZWFyIHdoYXQgeW91 IG1lYW4gYnkgIm5vdCByZXF1aXJlZCBpbiBpbmR1c3RyeSIsIGJ1dA0KICB3aGF0ZXZlciBhbiBS RkMgc3RhdGVzIGl0J3Mgbm90IHVuY29tbW9uIHRoYXQgdGhlICJpbmR1c3RyeSIgaWdub3Jlcw0K ICB3aGF0J3Mgd3JpdHRlbiBpbiB0aGUgUkZDLiAgU28gdGhlIGFuc3dlciB0byBhIHF1ZXN0aW9u IGxpa2UgdGhpcw0KICB3b3VsZCBiYXNpY2FsbHkgYWx3YXlzIGJlICJObyIuDQotIElnbm9yaW5n IHRoZSAiaW4gaW5kdXN0cnkiIHBhcnQsIFJGQzQ4NjIgc2F5cyBub3RoaW5nIGFib3V0IHdoZXRo ZXINCiAgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBzdGF0ZWxlc3MgREhDUHY2IG9yIGF0IHdoaWNoIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 IGxldmVsLg0KLSBBbHNvIGlnbm9yaW5nIHRoZSAiaW4gaW5kdXN0cnkiIHBhcnQsIFJGQzQ4NjIg ZG9lcyBub3QgZGVwcmVjYXRlIHRoZQ0KICB1c2Ugb2YgTSBvciBPIGZsYWdzIGJ5IHJlbW92aW5n IHRleHQgYWJvdXQgdGhlc2UgZmxhZ3MuICBTZWUNCiAgYXBwZW5kaXggQyBvZiB0aGUgUkZDLg0K DQotLQ0KSklOTUVJLCBUYXR1eWENCg== From nobody Mon May 11 10:27:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F041ACE2D for ; 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Mon, 11 May 2015 12:27:34 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , =?utf-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAADKigAAABeSaAAAPPlAAAAqfLAAAJlT3A Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 17:27:33 +0000 Message-ID: <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC2C19@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 17:27:40 -0000 UmVhZCBSRkMgNDg2MjoNCg0KICAgbyAgUmVtb3ZlZCB0aGUgdGV4dCByZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIE0g YW5kIE8gZmxhZ3MsIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIHRoZQ0KICAgICAgbWF0dXJpdHkgb2YgaW1wbGVtZW50 YXRpb25zIGFuZCBvcGVyYXRpb25hbCBleHBlcmllbmNlcy4NCiAgICAgIE1hbmFnZWRGbGFnIGFu ZCBPdGhlckNvbmZpZ0ZsYWcgd2VyZSByZW1vdmVkIGFjY29yZGluZ2x5LiAgKE5vdGUNCiAgICAg IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBjaGFuZ2UgZG9lcyBub3QgbWVhbiB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHRoZXNlIGZsYWdzIGlz DQogICAgICBkZXByZWNhdGVkLikNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206 IE11ZHJpYywgRHVzYW4gKER1c2FuKSBbbWFpbHRvOmRtdWRyaWNAYXZheWEuY29tXSANClNlbnQ6 IE1vbmRheSwgTWF5IDExLCAyMDE1IDE6MDIgUE0NClRvOiDnpZ7mmI7pgZTlk4kNCkNjOiBNYXJr IFpaWiBTbWl0aDsgU1RBUkssIEJBUkJBUkEgSDsgQmVybmllIFZvbHogKHZvbHopOyBMaW4sIFBp bmcgKFBpbmcpOyBpcHY2QGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUXVlc3Rpb24gcmUuIFJFQ09O RklHIGluIERIQ1B2Ng0KDQpXaHkgYXJlIHRoZSBNICYgTyBmbGFncyBub3QgZGVwcmVjYXRlZCBp ZiBSRkMgMjQ2MiBpcyBvYnNvbGV0ZT8gSWYgUkZDIDQ4NjIgb2Jzb2xldGVzIFJGQyAyNDYyLCB3 aGF0IGlzIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBvZiBzdXBwb3J0aW5nIE0gYW5kIE8gZmxhZ3M/IFdoeSB3b3VsZCBu ZXcgZGV2aWNlcyBzdXBwb3J0IGFuIG9ic29sZXRlIHN0YW5kYXJkIChpLmUuIDI0NjIpPyBCYWNr d2FyZCBjb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5Pw0KDQpEdXNhbg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0t LQ0KRnJvbTogamlubWVpLnRhdHV5YUBnbWFpbC5jb20gW21haWx0bzpqaW5tZWkudGF0dXlhQGdt YWlsLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mID8/Pz8NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTWF5IDExLCAyMDE1IDEx OjQ2IEFNDQpUbzogTXVkcmljLCBEdXNhbiAoRHVzYW4pDQpDYzogTWFyayBaWlogU21pdGg7IFNU QVJLLCBCQVJCQVJBIEg7IEJlcm5pZSBWb2x6ICh2b2x6KTsgTGluLCBQaW5nIChQaW5nKTsgaXB2 NkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFF1ZXN0aW9uIHJlLiBSRUNPTkZJRyBpbiBESENQdjYN Cg0KQXQgTW9uLCAxMSBNYXkgMjAxNSAxMzo1NzoxNyArMDAwMCwNCiJNdWRyaWMsIER1c2FuIChE dXNhbikiIDxkbXVkcmljQGF2YXlhLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4gSWYgUkZDNDg2MiDigJxSZW1v dmVkIHRoZSB0ZXh0IHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgTSBhbmQgTyBmbGFnc+KAnSwgZG9lcyBpdCBtZWFu IHRoZSBzdGF0ZWxlc3MgREhDUHY2LCBSRkMgMzczNiwgYW5kIGl0cyBtYW5hZ2VtZW50IHVzaW5n IE0gYW5kIE8gZmxhZ3MsIGFyZSBub3QgcmVxdWlyZWQgaW4gaW5kdXN0cnkgZWl0aGVyPw0KDQpU aGUgc2hvcnQgYW5zd2VyIGlzICJ0aGUgY2hhbmdlIGluIFJGQzQ4NjIgZG9lcyBOT1QgbWVhbiBz dWNoIHRoaW5ncyIuDQoNCkEgYml0IGxvbmdlciBhbnN3ZXIgd291bGQgYmU6DQoNCi0gSXQncyBu b3QgY2xlYXIgd2hhdCB5b3UgbWVhbiBieSAibm90IHJlcXVpcmVkIGluIGluZHVzdHJ5IiwgYnV0 DQogIHdoYXRldmVyIGFuIFJGQyBzdGF0ZXMgaXQncyBub3QgdW5jb21tb24gdGhhdCB0aGUgImlu ZHVzdHJ5IiBpZ25vcmVzDQogIHdoYXQncyB3cml0dGVuIGluIHRoZSBSRkMuICBTbyB0aGUgYW5z d2VyIHRvIGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gbGlrZSB0aGlzDQogIHdvdWxkIGJhc2ljYWxseSBhbHdheXMgYmUg Ik5vIi4NCi0gSWdub3JpbmcgdGhlICJpbiBpbmR1c3RyeSIgcGFydCwgUkZDNDg2MiBzYXlzIG5v dGhpbmcgYWJvdXQgd2hldGhlcg0KICB0byBzdXBwb3J0IHN0YXRlbGVzcyBESENQdjYgb3IgYXQg d2hpY2ggcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQgbGV2ZWwuDQotIEFsc28gaWdub3JpbmcgdGhlICJpbiBpbmR1c3Ry eSIgcGFydCwgUkZDNDg2MiBkb2VzIG5vdCBkZXByZWNhdGUgdGhlDQogIHVzZSBvZiBNIG9yIE8g ZmxhZ3MgYnkgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGV4dCBhYm91dCB0aGVzZSBmbGFncy4gIFNlZQ0KICBhcHBlbmRp eCBDIG9mIHRoZSBSRkMuDQoNCi0tDQpKSU5NRUksIFRhdHV5YQ0K From nobody Mon May 11 11:47:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DF91ACEC8 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:47:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGFCP37AyWGo for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA3641ACE27 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:46:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3609; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431370014; x=1432579614; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; 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Mon, 11 May 2015 13:46:52 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Lin, Ping (Ping)" , "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAADKigAAABeSaAAAPPlAAAAqfLAAAJlT3A///MoQCAAFFuYA== Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 18:46:52 +0000 Message-ID: <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC331F@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>, <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC2C19@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F0CCA@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F0CCA@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.1.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 18:47:00 -0000 I didn't write that text in RFC 4862, so you would have to ask the RFC 4862= authors. Personally, I want to say that I do not want to comment further on this M/O= bits topic. It has been hacked to death many times in the past and you sho= uld revisit those discussions (I do NOT want to start another round of deba= tes related to these two bits). Also, this has little to do with the subjec= t of this email which is related to DHCPv6 Reconfigure and not the M/O bits= . - Bernie -----Original Message----- From: Lin, Ping (Ping) [mailto:linping@avaya.com]=20 Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 2:33 PM To: Bernie Volz (volz); Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Hi Jinmei, Bernie, Could I ask for another clarification? Would you have some information abo= ut how much the M and O flags are used currently by end user devices (vs. r= outers)? When Appendix C was written, it seems from the text quoted here t= hat implementations of M and O flags were not quite mature as mentioned -- = has this changed since that time? Regards, Ping Lin Avaya ________________________________________ From: Bernie Volz (volz) [volz@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 1:27 PM To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Lin, Ping (Ping); ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Read RFC 4862: o Removed the text regarding the M and O flags, considering the maturity of implementations and operational experiences. ManagedFlag and OtherConfigFlag were removed accordingly. (Note that this change does not mean the use of these flags is deprecated.) -----Original Message----- From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 1:02 PM To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping);= ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Why are the M & O flags not deprecated if RFC 2462 is obsolete? If RFC 4862= obsoletes RFC 2462, what is the value of supporting M and O flags? Why wou= ld new devices support an obsolete standard (i.e. 2462)? Backward compatibi= lity? Dusan -----Original Message----- From: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com [mailto:jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com] On Behalf Of= ???? Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 11:46 AM To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping);= ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 At Mon, 11 May 2015 13:57:17 +0000, "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" wrote: > If RFC4862 =1B$B!H=1B(BRemoved the text regarding the M and O flags=1B$B!= I=1B(B, does it mean the stateless DHCPv6, RFC 3736, and its management usi= ng M and O flags, are not required in industry either? The short answer is "the change in RFC4862 does NOT mean such things". A bit longer answer would be: - It's not clear what you mean by "not required in industry", but whatever an RFC states it's not uncommon that the "industry" ignores what's written in the RFC. So the answer to a question like this would basically always be "No". - Ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 says nothing about whether to support stateless DHCPv6 or at which requirement level. - Also ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 does not deprecate the use of M or O flags by removing text about these flags. See appendix C of the RFC. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Mon May 11 12:13:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9971ACE95 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:33:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w77Hcm1H4Z05 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DADF21A01EC for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:33:01 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag8FAIL0UFXGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABcgmYpgTIGgxjJQAKBOEwBAQEBAQGBC4QgAQEBAQIBEg8BVwUHBAIBCA0EBAEBAgMGBRgCAwIhERQJCAIEAQ0FCBqHdQMKCAGXVpI4ikoBjj4NhRIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXgR6KG4JNggcxBwaCXzKBFgWSPYkNAYJ5hksLh22GcCNhgxZvgUWBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,409,1427774400"; d="scan'208";a="119935888" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 14:33:00 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-US1EXHC03.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.85.14]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 11 May 2015 14:33:00 -0400 Received: from AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com ([fe80::c01d:740:c927:8888]) by AZ-US1EXHC03.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 11 May 2015 14:32:58 -0400 From: "Lin, Ping (Ping)" To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" , "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAACpAvAAAH1+VQ///rhgCAADeGgP//5L2A///Mdz8= Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 18:32:58 +0000 Message-ID: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F0CCA@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com>, <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC2C19@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC2C19@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.30.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 May 2015 12:13:24 -0700 Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 18:33:03 -0000 Hi Jinmei, Bernie, Could I ask for another clarification? Would you have some information abo= ut how much the M and O flags are used currently by end user devices (vs. r= outers)? When Appendix C was written, it seems from the text quoted here t= hat implementations of M and O flags were not quite mature as mentioned -- = has this changed since that time? Regards, Ping Lin Avaya ________________________________________ From: Bernie Volz (volz) [volz@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 1:27 PM To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan); =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Lin, Ping (Ping); ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Read RFC 4862: o Removed the text regarding the M and O flags, considering the maturity of implementations and operational experiences. ManagedFlag and OtherConfigFlag were removed accordingly. (Note that this change does not mean the use of these flags is deprecated.) -----Original Message----- From: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) [mailto:dmudric@avaya.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 1:02 PM To: =1B$B?@L@C#:H=1B(B Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping);= ipv6@ietf.org Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Why are the M & O flags not deprecated if RFC 2462 is obsolete? If RFC 4862= obsoletes RFC 2462, what is the value of supporting M and O flags? Why wou= ld new devices support an obsolete standard (i.e. 2462)? Backward compatibi= lity? Dusan -----Original Message----- From: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com [mailto:jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com] On Behalf Of= ???? Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 11:46 AM To: Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) Cc: Mark ZZZ Smith; STARK, BARBARA H; Bernie Volz (volz); Lin, Ping (Ping);= ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 At Mon, 11 May 2015 13:57:17 +0000, "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" wrote: > If RFC4862 =1B$B!H=1B(BRemoved the text regarding the M and O flags=1B$B!= I=1B(B, does it mean the stateless DHCPv6, RFC 3736, and its management usi= ng M and O flags, are not required in industry either? The short answer is "the change in RFC4862 does NOT mean such things". A bit longer answer would be: - It's not clear what you mean by "not required in industry", but whatever an RFC states it's not uncommon that the "industry" ignores what's written in the RFC. So the answer to a question like this would basically always be "No". - Ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 says nothing about whether to support stateless DHCPv6 or at which requirement level. - Also ignoring the "in industry" part, RFC4862 does not deprecate the use of M or O flags by removing text about these flags. See appendix C of the RFC. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Mon May 11 12:31:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A98B1AD0D7 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HncReEaFliaI for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22e.google.com (mail-la0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A01021ACE87 for <6man@ietf.org>; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by labbd9 with SMTP id bd9so100843657lab.2 for <6man@ietf.org>; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=QEfEM2r38hM9pk8mM88LGO7i7GKBM5v/stzR9WC2/Xo=; b=DxnY+4mKfT1KvJqUi7cEPJIN8cP+3fdsY6n8oW3kMZ2AJ1Z8JR8JP7eoY8qudY5wz+ KnHdKK/7dEwrMAO8OGjGobEqVJA5f54urMN8qsvsULEVZ1z590Hvfn5x0S/0hcxvO+CE crA+mQUZcbEGJVE6sRcb8K13vv3wC3OYFTgJ5lGCuXmvmxmA3/waZ8HdoUMTO3uH+8jP 2YtQlkehT/jpsrli54F7ghpQVkRtjESC4N3XjYwPmpqDjECXI7QIVk3/QFRBSXi1RKOW +6oBvKMlckbKojoOHwjNfYJun40E8+c7FR7qpAh8sMU19KFm6ULlyryNrRAH4LJ23q7u mgxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.189.102 with SMTP id gh6mr606054lbc.115.1431372707932; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.74.225 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 14:31:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: RFC 4191 or not From: Behcet Sarikaya To: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 19:31:52 -0000 Hi all, Regarding SADR solution issue, rather than discussing itsy bitsy formatting issues, I would like to ask opinions on the issue of whether nor not we have to use RFC 4191 format (with prf, reserved bits) when it comes to defining the route prefix. If you prefer 4191 format then there is another question that is do we have to define a second option to ignore 4191 formatted route information option using one of the reserved bits if received? Based on this I may have to change RA and DHCP solutions which offer a slightly different format to define route prefix with the source prefix/address. Regards From nobody Mon May 11 15:29:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659E61A90CF for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJ36Ru2mjidk for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B06C71A8942 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iepj10 with SMTP id j10so117669456iep.0 for ; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Z3L8wx09OX54cNfgV6MP7t6RTBa62fvsHdYf5B9EoxY=; b=0EH5u581NJVo6xKciWVaGsCDoWBYvNO93DlErUmE1ViXEKdJvIQN8VOUDs9qu611cR 41pbUyF3TsOmYFUXqo/uoK7rrU793uRKP9xpUIq2FuErx0pkF36o26n7Wkewfs6GgC1b NeuHywLh3Kkts3Pv8HLZeJwAD3jPXQOWlcAK8J+0fUFImKQjVtv3afu+Mo0kjys58OG1 7SZFOQ1By63j1iPNI8AmvmCU69Pjw4boQgf5bXZBkLhKY22JUrs77RyTBfCg26mEj1gM 1GcwgbWmmtSNGrNJ8KDKOLz1drnXMNo9NH4f61shs7DARKFdlbl9XRkk2U0wvNQbZXIL Z6PQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.10.201 with SMTP id 70mr15970606iok.0.1431383342237; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jinmei.tatuya@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.50.80 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F0CCA@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> References: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <1701764679.5027864.1431350106583.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FC914@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A7FCA9E@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC2C19@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F0CCA@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:29:02 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: azUUYhpWQgNqaJrnoyrdeyQCp6U Message-ID: Subject: Re: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 From: =?UTF-8?B?56We5piO6YGU5ZOJ?= To: "Lin, Ping (Ping)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "Mudric, Dusan \(Dusan\)" , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 22:29:04 -0000 At Mon, 11 May 2015 18:32:58 +0000, "Lin, Ping (Ping)" wrote: > Could I ask for another clarification? Would you have some information about how much the M and O flags are used currently by end user devices (vs. routers)? I don't, although I suspect it's not used very widely as different implementations still handle these flags differently. In any case, as Bernie pointed out, these seem to be irrelevant to the use of RECONFIGURE message of DHCPv6. If you really need a conclusive answer about the deployment maturity of M/O (if it exists...), it would be better to flame the question in a separate thread. -- JINMEI, Tatuya From nobody Tue May 12 11:14:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6958C1ACE29 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:14:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BcVbajliaYg4 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E14A1ACE38 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:14:00 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsQFAF5BUlXGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABcgkUhKVReBoMYwWGBXQsZAQaGCAIcgSFMAQEBAQEBgQuEIAEBAQEDAQEBDxEKQQsQAgEIDQQEAQELFgEGAwICAiULFAkIAgQOBQgaiAoBDKtVik+TagEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReLOYQ6GhYQBwQGAQYDgiQ7Eh2BFgWGYok3gjSEJYdqPoYRhyqHTSNhfAmCEW8BAYFDgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,416,1427774400"; d="scan'208,217";a="102330288" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2015 14:13:57 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-US1EXHC03.global.avaya.com) ([135.11.85.14]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 12 May 2015 14:13:53 -0400 Received: from AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com ([fe80::a5d3:ad50:5be9:1922]) by AZ-US1EXHC03.global.avaya.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 12 May 2015 14:13:52 -0400 From: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" To: Lorenzo Colitti , "STARK, BARBARA H" Subject: RE: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Topic: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AQHQi/VpDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicp14oDrg Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:13:50 +0000 Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A80094D@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.85.49] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A80094DAZUS1EXMB03glob_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 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Thread-Topic: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags Thread-Index: AdCM5PoG5SBG9u46QEK4wNDSgsbkgA== Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.11.85.49] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5AZUS1EXMB03glob_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:54:06 -0000 --_000_9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5AZUS1EXMB03glob_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.itservices.sbc.com [130.8.218.154]) by alpi133.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Tue, 12 May 2015 19:37:54 GMT Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.168]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.154]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 12 May 2015 15:37:54 -0400 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , Lorenzo Colitti Subject: RE: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags Thread-Topic: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags Thread-Index: AdCM5PoG5SBG9u46QEK4wNDSgsbkgAAA3IAw Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 19:37:54 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FF2CB7@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: 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([2406:e007:6c7e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gs7sm17052465pbc.6.2015.05.12.13.05.05 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 May 2015 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <55525CEE.9020106@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 08:05:02 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , Lorenzo Colitti , "STARK, BARBARA H" Subject: Re: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" , "Bernie Volz \(volz\)" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 20:05:27 -0000 Hi Dusan, The M/O flags are not obsolete. They are defined in RFC 4861. You might want to read https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcpv= 6-slaac-problem (noting that it is still a draft, discussed in the v6ops WG) and you migh= t move this discussion to the v6ops list, too. Regards Brian Carpenter On 13/05/2015 06:53, Mudric, Dusan (Dusan) wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > I would appreciate your help answering the questions regarding the stat= eless DHCPv6 and =E2=80=98M=E2=80=99 & =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99 flags: >=20 > Background: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Following RFC 2462, =E2=80=9CO=E2=80=9D flag in Router Advertisements i= s used to start stateless DHCPv6 client. When using =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99 f= lag, the end point shall support: >=20 > =C2=B7 RFC 3736 = , that defines stateless DHCPv6 client >=20 > =C2=B7 RFC 4242, that defines when the end point should refresh= the configuration information. >=20 > Questions: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > If RFC 4862 removed =E2=80=98M=E2=80=99 & =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99 flags and= obsoleted RFC 2462 (that defines =E2=80=98M=E2=80=99 & =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99= flags), why are the flags not deprecated? What is the value of referring= to the obsoleted standard, in order to support flags in the solution tha= t is not mature? >=20 > rfc4862#appendix-C > o Removed the text regarding the M and O flags, considering the > maturity of implementations and operational experiences. > ManagedFlag and OtherConfigFlag were removed accordingly. (Note > that this change does not mean the use of these flags is > deprecated.) >=20 > In the thread =E2=80=9CRe: Question re. RECONFIG in DHCPv6=E2=80=9D, Be= rnie stated: > =E2=80=9CThe RFC 3736 document is really not something I would recommen= d following - see full RFC 3315 and implement those features you need (su= ch as only Information-Request and Reply). 3736 was written to demonstrat= e that stateless dhcpv6 was rather simple to implement.=E2=80=9D >=20 > Based on the fact that =E2=80=98M=E2=80=99 & =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99 flags = are removed from the RFC 4862 and the statement above, can we say the sta= teless DHCPv6 is not mandatory and, consequently, =E2=80=98O=E2=80=99 fla= g is not required? >=20 > If stateless DHCPv6 is not used, stateful DHCPv6 is required. Then, =E2= =80=98M=E2=80=99 flag is not needed. >=20 > Regards, > Dusan Mudric. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 From nobody Tue May 12 15:16:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4411A9075 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 15:16:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: 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A0CvBAAze1JV/4UNJK1cgkVKVF4GglJGwgwJh10CHIEcOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIAEBAQQMFwpMEAIBBgIRBAEBCxYHAwICAjAUCQgBAQQBDQUIE4gRmTedB5N2AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4s5hFQxBgGCaC+BFgWQBxOCNIZshSOHQooyg1Ujg3dvAYFEgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,417,1427760000"; d="scan'208,217";a="149550819" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2015 22:16:43 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com [173.36.12.80]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4CMGgCj004540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 May 2015 22:16:42 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.220]) by xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com ([173.36.12.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 12 May 2015 17:16:42 -0500 From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" To: "Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)" , Lorenzo Colitti , "STARK, BARBARA H" Subject: RE: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags Thread-Topic: Question re. stateless DHCPv6 and 'M' & 'O' flags Thread-Index: AdCM5PoG5SBG9u46QEK4wNDSgsbkgAAHD7hg Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 22:16:41 +0000 Message-ID: <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC6132@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> References: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A8009F5@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.131.36.119] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC6132xmbrcdx04ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 22:16:45 -0000 --_000_489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC6132xmbrcdx04ciscoc_ 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RECONFIG in DHCPv6 Thread-Index: AdCJvBDjDtxMsGvHS+2Uu8zmBDUicgBbaN9ZAC6EWAAADuMxgAA6fuwAAAHeASA= Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 22:29:21 +0000 Message-ID: <489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC61E9@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com> References: <76AE033F283B3A4DA40924C68D5321FD235F070F@AZ-US1EXMB02.global.avaya.com> <552BA9B1-F419-4E22-90DB-713B3C2EF963@cisco.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E61130FEF5B0@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A80094D@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9142206A0C5BF24CB22755C8EC422E457A80094D@AZ-US1EXMB03.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.131.36.119] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_489D13FBFA9B3E41812EA89F188F018E1CAC61E9xmbrcdx04ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Lin, Ping \(Ping\)" , "Steven B." , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance 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[194.29.32.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u6sm16817929wjy.13.2015.05.18.05.59.10 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 May 2015 05:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Chairs Review on Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7497ED9A-CCF4-4848-A025-E4C30CDA10A5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 15:59:01 +0300 Message-Id: <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List , Bob Hinden X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 12:59:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7497ED9A-CCF4-4848-A025-E4C30CDA10A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fernando, Thanks for making the changes. I note that the latest draft still shows = Windows 8 incorrectly. A few comments on your comments below. Bob > On Mar 9, 2015, at 1:44 AM, Fernando Gont = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Bob, >=20 > Thanks so much for your comments! Please find my responses in-line.... >=20 > On 03/03/2015 09:49 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>=20 >> The biggest issue is if advancing and publishing this draft is >> worthwhile. We note that in Appendix B "Survey of Fragment >> Identification selection algorithms employed by popular IPv6 >> implementations=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9D, of the implementation listed, all = of the current >> ones (FreeBSD 9, Linux-current, OpenBSD-current) show unpredictable >> or random. While there are many older obsolete operating systems >> that have issues, we aren=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99t going to fix these by = publishing this >> draft. >=20 > FWIW, I'd say that a number of OSes (including Linux and Solaris) were > fixed as a result of this I-D, indeed (some even reference the I-D in > the code or commit messages). The reason why this happened > earlier than the I-D became an RFC is that I usually socialize the = I-Ds > I author/co-author with OS developers. However, there are other OSes > that still need to be fixed. And since we're talking about IPv6 (not > about IPv4), I'd expect new implementations to appear (the word can't > just be a handful of OSes, and I expect IPv6 to live long enough :-) = )-- > so this document would be of help to them. It=E2=80=99s great you are reaching out to OS developers. That seems to = be why it is getting fixed, I am not so sure that publishing an RFC will = help that much. I do agree there will be new IPv6 implementations. >=20 >> The report does not list current versions of Windows (9 or >> 10), nor any mobile OS=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99s (though, IOS and Android = are based on BSD >> and Linux respectively). >=20 > The list is not really meant to be exhaustive. However, I've just > augmented it (with 5+ OSes). >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Moderate >>=20 >> In Section 2 "Security Implications of Predictable Fragment >> Identification values=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9D. The problems listed seem to = us to be >> overstated. As the draft notes later, the issue with predictable >> fragment IDs in IPv6 is only an issue for IPv6 packets with the >> fragment header. >=20 > Yes, but you can trigger fragmentation for any traffic flow (see > draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation). Yes, if it knows the address of the other side of the connection. The = attacker would have to be on link, or monitoring the traffic between the = two hosts. This make this attack much harder in practice for an off = link attacker. If on link, then there are so many better attacks. = Hence my comment of the problem being overstated. >=20 >=20 >> Traffic that doesn=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99t include a fragment header is, >> of course, immune. This alone reduces the severity of the problems >> listed. We don=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99t think the draft makes this clear. >=20 > Truth is that right now it is trivial to trigger the use of > fragmentation (just fire an ICMPv6 PTB<1280). >=20 Same as above. >=20 >=20 >> On Page 5 of Section 2, the draft cites problems with Linux 2.6.38-8. >> This is an old version of the Linux kernel and we don=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99= t think it >> justifies the problem, especially since according to the appendix it >> is fixed in later version of the Linux kernel. >=20 > FWIW, Linux was fixed in response to this document. Good! >=20 >=20 >> [CPNI-IPv6] Gont, F., "Security Assessment of the Internet Protocol >> version 6 (IPv6)", UK Centre for the Protection of National >> Infrastructure, (available on request). >>=20 >> Including a reference that isn=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99t generally = available, appears to be >> an issue to us if this is part of the justification for this work. >> Has anyone in the working group reviewed it? We suggest it be >> removed or the document referenced be made available on a stable web >> site. >=20 > The reference (now removed) just elaborated on the vulnerabilities. > Essentially, the problem is well known form the IPv4 world. The only > additional item to consider for th IPv6 case is that you can trigger = the > use of fragmentation for any traffic flow, which in IPv4 you simply = can=E2=80=99t. Thanks, the problem was that the document was not accessible. >=20 >=20 >> Issue #2: Remove: [I-D.ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation] aims >> at deprecating the generation of IPv6 atomic fragments. >=20 > No issues with removing this. But isn't this really relevant? >=20 > [All other changes applied] Thanks! >=20 > Thanks so much! >=20 > Best regards, > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7497ED9A-CCF4-4848-A025-E4C30CDA10A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVWeIVAAoJEK7rdBF357uoNzYH/35D2MijaZPEcZg8KuW7Oab4 oAqTQJ/hc+s09d6DTKfoRbFCslEQluQa5knBClVfwPKeZ4yMG4s6mbRPMkAGEJ16 kM56ct9kJ9U0Y392kHYIJcUZ7OHvjdv3X53OAKy+ooV1jIR71r3rKHqz2jExDVtH PEHyjdcLZf52EsPy8zpcH6q+3POmp3D+t+Q9rEu6BmKv/hPNmHLRNgK4cjsz7D7g vcDvw61ILQhp915QpqJkWeShXYFzWfVpp50aKde/ehz2Xk2Iyhpph2zUUv8gTAQt H16IgjtD5Vz9JIF63CpzGgy/YGYXNohwUnVRCBnLcnaOpd76pKZaOE99Eak/h14= =eHmU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7497ED9A-CCF4-4848-A025-E4C30CDA10A5-- From nobody Mon May 18 19:14:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7738E1B2D2B for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:14:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.102 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEAXjFdQES2I for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm19-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm19-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.162]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96A981B2D29 for ; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:14:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1432001686; bh=VjsDErJCIMm3OL0/rx9VLstTmtidGw7jDsdal6V6b00=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=VW883Z/3D3U7NrUL69JKJ5A8AuIIE5l6CvOKLJK5o6FF3U8/uVXNGwwI7wdgM7UKsgCQWOrYON/CG89QQmhMD0BRbXz8DUcvpRjY63fw/Agra+ZtpZdJa6nDNlKm4xIFFYvgCCB8EAJeaJzGffTy+9p/FGaidjlDOxP1xD2eCXq9K9iOGEer1fdkPcjveQk9hMtgd0gYuRQUTeOSiSGEENoHtFBW2xx8PyKRMSk23XvgviW+fCQ4vNLP2lfKOBX7izynm19fYjZu/3yNhCD0bYE5O7jjB49nzig5D3YRCBeYSbdiHtDcpqEB5D2c74sdx91+QXqdCK6ukfPAf2vqrQ== Received: from [98.139.170.180] by nm19.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 02:14:46 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.208] by tm23.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 02:14:46 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1017.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 02:14:46 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 865950.77756.bm@omp1017.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: KtPFWMwVM1m2IKotcwrnP0M63tH2J49qlgJC4m6aFE1OyIyRPUZHUvMgxMOwEw7 jPGePGrRT.4a._Bf8Anb4UgQn7.wpbN9b4JW.oUNUB.eABgZxRFZKs6yp7Se4b5mSUh9rPMqZpBB wj5t1Ac_jyrvSg8cZp2MsJc21Yr0Ij8iqoh2Y5WEVwmmnuSiT0.S01.TQTzaiGtOFmYRaEgM2Obx pPWEar3kvI_ihShS3gf8XPOBSJpzAa9lfcNbSZRFpuRId.9vIAqeFP6JhJcRxc8LkgRHvznO2mQ1 S6G2u13TjdByFKU1JJZfErEH9HbajzF3PF5jTEvgD.lPkkNt70GA_TdavXRdtBM4bZblxQ_XruYv D01PKNvloFOKxr56NoJSV_729r64rWeX110b0GdZplWa24GanlZrv4Ism0P5Kyg_Z5U1743MXygu AVhGHJYu7l13D0Aeny0FiJMonstmiCerW3xqpsvBx_1c2himREOKFNZwwBxIJ5O7JxAv62GYHFRX MKQ5og0XZ.i9GrBMDlPDI9xsNQi_9qWWgyJYgQG.IO_UuKzg- Received: by 66.196.80.112; Tue, 19 May 2015 02:14:46 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 02:14:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: "Liushucheng (Will)" Message-ID: <33213530.1959637.1432001685517.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1959636_1687285443.1432001685497" Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 02:14:50 -0000 ------=_Part_1959636_1687285443.1432001685497 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Will, In that case, sticking to RFC2119 keywords, I'd say it should be a SHOULD r= ather than a RECOMMENDED. Regards,Mark. From: Liushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith =20 Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" =20 Sent: Monday, 18 May 2015, 12:30 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =20 #yiv0394917202 #yiv0394917202 -- _filtered #yiv0394917202 {font-family:Helv= etica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0394917202 {font-family= :=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv0394917202= {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0394917202 {font-family:Cali= bri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0394917202 {panose-1:2 1 = 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}#yiv0394917202 #yiv0394917202 p.yiv0394917202MsoNormal, #y= iv0394917202 li.yiv0394917202MsoNormal, #yiv0394917202 div.yiv0394917202Mso= Normal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5= =AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv0394917202 a:link, #yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202Ms= oHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0394917202 a:visited,= #yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-d= ecoration:underline;}#yiv0394917202 p.yiv0394917202msonormal, #yiv039491720= 2 li.yiv0394917202msonormal, #yiv0394917202 div.yiv0394917202msonormal {mar= gin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD= =93;}#yiv0394917202 p.yiv0394917202msochpdefault, #yiv0394917202 li.yiv0394= 917202msochpdefault, #yiv0394917202 div.yiv0394917202msochpdefault {margin-= right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}= #yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202msohyperlink {}#yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394= 917202msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202emailstyle17 = {}#yiv0394917202 p.yiv0394917202msonormal1, #yiv0394917202 li.yiv0394917202= msonormal1, #yiv0394917202 div.yiv0394917202msonormal1 {margin:0cm;margin-b= ottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv03949172= 02 span.yiv0394917202msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#= yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-de= coration:underline;}#yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202emailstyle171 {color:#= 1F497D;}#yiv0394917202 p.yiv0394917202msochpdefault1, #yiv0394917202 li.yiv= 0394917202msochpdefault1, #yiv0394917202 div.yiv0394917202msochpdefault1 {m= argin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4= =BD=93;}#yiv0394917202 span.yiv0394917202EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0= 394917202 .yiv0394917202MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv039= 4917202 {margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}#yiv0394917202 div.yiv03949172= 02WordSection1 {}#yiv0394917202 Hi Mark, =C2=A0 I'd keep 'RECOMMENDED' sin= ce 'STRONGLY' is not really a RFC2119 keyword, only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "RE= QUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",=C2=A0= "MAY", and "OPTIONAL". =C2=A0 Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) =C2=A0 From: = Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2015 11:10 AM To: Liushucheng (Will) Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Liushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015, 15:58 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi Mar= k, =C2=A0 Thank you for your comments. The part you added makes sense. We w= ill update the document accordingly. =C2=A0 / A further little thought, pe= rhaps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the text I suggested, since the IPv6 IIDs = are not going to be following the IID recommendations in the document? =C2= =A0 Regards, Mark. =C2=A0 Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From:= ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf OfMark ZZZ Smith Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:50 AM To: internet-drafts@ietf.org;i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi, =C2= =A0 I've one suggestion for the following text (**s) =C2=A0 "It is RECOMMEN= DED by this document that future specifications do not =C2=A0 =C2=A0specify= IPv6 address generation schemes that embed the underlying =C2=A0 =C2=A0lin= k-layer address in the IID. =C2=A0Future specifications MAY use an IID =C2= =A0 =C2=A0based on a node's link-layer address if design and engineering = =C2=A0 =C2=A0considerations warrant. ** Note that some link-layers support = locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2001], such as [IEEE 802.3]= and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs ar= e to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that the rando= m addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-random loc= ally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used.***" = =C2=A0 Regards, Mark. =C2=A0=20 From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53 Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= . =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Fernando G= ont =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alissa Cooper =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dave Thaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Will Liu =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 9 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2015-05-= 06 Abstract: =C2=A0 The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format =C2=A0 Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s =C2=A0 specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link- =C2=A0 layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6 =C2=A0 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).=C2=A0 The security and =C2=A0 privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the =C2=A0 Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time =C2=A0 now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m =C2=A0 such schemes to mitigate these issues.=C2=A0 This document changes t= he =C2=A0 recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC =C2=A0 to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link- =C2=A0 layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.=C2=A0 It formally upd= ates =C2=A0 RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590, =C2=A0 RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and =C2=A0 RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from =C2=A0 the underlying link-layer address.=C2=A0 Additionally, this document =C2=A0 provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with =C2=A0 other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host =C2=A0 Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =C2=A0=20 ------=_Part_1959636_1687285443.1432001685497 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Will,

In that case, stic= king to RFC2119 keywords, I'd say it should be a SHOULD rather than a RECOM= MENDED.

Regards,
Mark.

=
From: Liushu= cheng (Will) <liushucheng@huawei.com>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> =
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" &l= t;ipv6@ietf.org>; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" <draf= t-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, 18 May 2015, 12:30
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man= -default-iids-03.txt

Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
I'd keep 'RECOMMENDED' since 'STRONGLY' is not really a RFC2= 119 keyword, only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SH= OULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL".
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Will (Shucheng LIU)
=20
 
=20
From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2015 11:10 AM
To: Liushucheng (Will)
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt<= /div>=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20

From: Li= ushucheng (Will) <liushucheng= @huawei.com>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" <= ;ipv6@ietf.org>; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015, 15:58
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">
=20
 
=20
Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
Thank you for your comments. The pa= rt you added makes sense. We will update the document accordingly.
=20
 
=20
/ A further little thought, perh= aps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the text I suggested, since the IPv6 IIDs ar= e not going to be following the IID recommendations in the document?
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20
Regards,<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">
=20
Will (Shucheng LIU)
=20
 
=20
 
=20
From: ip= v6 [mailto:ipv6-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark ZZZ Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:50 AM
To: i= nternet-drafts@ietf.org; i-d-announce@ietf.= org
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">
=20
 =
=20
Hi,
=20
 
=20
I've one sugg= estion for the following text (**s)
=20
 
=20
"It is RECOMMENDED by this document that future spec= ifications do not
=20
   specify IPv6 address generation schemes= that embed the underlying
=20
   link-layer address in the IID.  Fu= ture specifications MAY use an IID
=20
   based on a node's link-layer address if= design and engineering
=20
   considerations warrant. ** Note that so= me link-layers support locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2001= ], such as [IEEE 802.3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs ar= e to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that the rando= m addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-random loc= ally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used.***"
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20



From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <interne= t-drafts@ietf.org>
To: i-d-ann= ounce@ietf.org
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
=20


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= .

        Title          : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers
        Authors        : Fernando G= ont
                     = ;     Alissa Cooper
                     = ;     Dave Thaler
                     = ;     Will Liu
    Filename        : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt
    Pages          : 9
    Date            : 2015-05-= 06

Abstract:
  The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format
  Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s
  specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link-   layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6   Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).  The security and<= br clear=3D"none">   privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the
  Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time   now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m
  such schemes to mitigate these issues.  This document changes t= he
  recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC=
  to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link-=
  layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.  It formally upd= ates
  RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590,
  RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and   RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from=
  the underlying link-layer address.  Additionally, this document=
  provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with   other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host
  Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration.<= br clear=3D"none">

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man= -default-iids/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default= -iids-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-i= etf-6man-default-iids-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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=20
 
=20


------=_Part_1959636_1687285443.1432001685497-- From nobody Tue May 19 00:16:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774AF1ACDB0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sysx2KvtXThN for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web01.jbserver.net (web01.jbserver.net [IPv6:2a00:8240:6:a::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D44331ACDB9 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [190.113.211.203] (helo=[192.168.43.9]) by web01.jbserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Yubkq-0005zL-TH; Tue, 19 May 2015 09:15:57 +0200 Message-ID: <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 04:05:19 -0300 From: Fernando Gont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Chairs Review on References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 07:16:18 -0000 Hi, Bob, On 05/18/2015 09:59 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: > Fernando, > > Thanks for making the changes. I note that the latest draft still > shows Windows 8 incorrectly. Oops.. that was the result of an error while editing. Fixed. Thanks! >> Thanks so much for your comments! Please find my responses >> in-line.... >> >> On 03/03/2015 09:49 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>> >>> The biggest issue is if advancing and publishing this draft is >>> worthwhile. We note that in Appendix B "Survey of Fragment >>> Identification selection algorithms employed by popular IPv6 >>> implementations”, of the implementation listed, all of the >>> current ones (FreeBSD 9, Linux-current, OpenBSD-current) show >>> unpredictable or random. While there are many older obsolete >>> operating systems that have issues, we aren’t going to fix >>> these by publishing this draft. >> >> FWIW, I'd say that a number of OSes (including Linux and Solaris) >> were fixed as a result of this I-D, indeed (some even reference the >> I-D in the code or commit messages). The reason why this happened >> earlier than the I-D became an RFC is that I usually socialize the >> I-Ds I author/co-author with OS developers. However, there are >> other OSes that still need to be fixed. And since we're talking >> about IPv6 (not about IPv4), I'd expect new implementations to >> appear (the word can't just be a handful of OSes, and I expect IPv6 >> to live long enough :-) )-- so this document would be of help to >> them. > > It’s great you are reaching out to OS developers. That seems to be > why it is getting fixed, I am not so sure that publishing an RFC will > help that much. I do agree there will be new IPv6 implementations. It will certainly help in documenting what OSes do, and will certainly be of help for new implementations, which an learn about the problem of predictable I-Ds and also find possible approaches to avoid them. >>> In Section 2 "Security Implications of Predictable Fragment >>> Identification values”. The problems listed seem to us to be >>> overstated. As the draft notes later, the issue with >>> predictable fragment IDs in IPv6 is only an issue for IPv6 >>> packets with the fragment header. >> >> Yes, but you can trigger fragmentation for any traffic flow (see >> draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation). > > > Yes, if it knows the address of the other side of the connection. > The attacker would have to be on link, or monitoring the traffic > between the two hosts. This make this attack much harder in practice > for an off link attacker. If on link, then there are so many better > attacks. Hence my comment of the problem being overstated. It is trivial to know the IPv6 addresses involved for many scenarios. e.g. BGP peer to BGP peer, secondary DNS to primary DNS, SMTP server to SMTP server, etc. Thanks! Best regards, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Tue May 19 00:16:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB201ACDBC; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cpgN5TdM4XUS; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA67A1ACDCA; Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-06.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150519071623.21642.89667.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 00:16:23 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 07:16:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. Title : Security Implications of Predictable Fragment Identification Values Author : Fernando Gont Filename : draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-06.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2015-05-18 Abstract: IPv6 specifies the Fragment Header, which is employed for the fragmentation and reassembly mechanisms. The Fragment Header contains an "Identification" field which, together with the IPv6 Source Address and the IPv6 Destination Address of a packet, identifies fragments that correspond to the same original datagram, such that they can be reassembled together at the receiving host. The only requirement for setting the "Identification" value is that it must be different than that employed for any other fragmented packet sent recently with the same Source Address and Destination Address. Some implementations use a simple global counter for setting the Identification field, thus leading to predictable values. This document analyzes the security implications of predictable Identification values, and provides implementation guidance for selecting the Identification field of the Fragment Header, such that the aforementioned security implications are mitigated. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 19 01:40:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFF11A1ADD for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YTdQRxBI2qBH for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EED7F1A1AD0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibt6 with SMTP id t6so12943523wib.0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=z80vR34vtZRDoArjvICzW+dO6snDsWJnw8pJdjIitiY=; b=f1fF/9GFYwm7yXov9Y4VsitVnKkNl7gwYnmgkebNT3twPZYWbIyrl5Kr2oFLY1V/2Q X1veInxPoaTFLNPvp6Ch7S8PEu4gHpqVly8z+AvZo8LoUqGuybR1e9G9EHWA3g5oCVr+ awAAtblVY1gOTLgZSsLqx43Plu1MWnC4C1G+Gawr8pqRiPx+qy76gWfMgdml4cYVwy45 66fxLA+nNb1De5AThhP9uqYCE6EbNpc9yx0lAvDgctPTUOrMWPdQaprz2JbUb35Yda/L PJbaN+PyXfXyfDD9R87Azg8uqI8fN3vzWztNZBKUvkibN/6D52KRVULB/LtdH5PV7H9S 8UbA== X-Received: by 10.180.102.74 with SMTP id fm10mr6575368wib.25.1432024830742; Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.24.249.34] (dyn32-131.checkpoint.com. [194.29.32.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y7sm20670859wjw.16.2015.05.19.01.40.28 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 May 2015 01:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Chairs Review on Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2A0149AD-A7AD-45E6-AE83-7E31375109B3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:40:21 +0300 Message-Id: References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List , Bob Hinden X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 08:40:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2A0149AD-A7AD-45E6-AE83-7E31375109B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fernando, > On May 19, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Fernando Gont = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Bob, >=20 > On 05/18/2015 09:59 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: >> Fernando, >>=20 >> Thanks for making the changes. I note that the latest draft still >> shows Windows 8 incorrectly. >=20 > Oops.. that was the result of an error while editing. Fixed. Thanks! Thanks! >=20 >=20 >>> Thanks so much for your comments! Please find my responses >>> in-line.... >>>=20 >>> On 03/03/2015 09:49 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> The biggest issue is if advancing and publishing this draft is >>>> worthwhile. We note that in Appendix B "Survey of Fragment >>>> Identification selection algorithms employed by popular IPv6 >>>> implementations=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9D, of the implementation listed, = all of the >>>> current ones (FreeBSD 9, Linux-current, OpenBSD-current) show >>>> unpredictable or random. While there are many older obsolete >>>> operating systems that have issues, we aren=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=99t = going to fix >>>> these by publishing this draft. >>>=20 >>> FWIW, I'd say that a number of OSes (including Linux and Solaris) >>> were fixed as a result of this I-D, indeed (some even reference the >>> I-D in the code or commit messages). The reason why this happened >>> earlier than the I-D became an RFC is that I usually socialize the >>> I-Ds I author/co-author with OS developers. However, there are >>> other OSes that still need to be fixed. And since we're talking >>> about IPv6 (not about IPv4), I'd expect new implementations to >>> appear (the word can't just be a handful of OSes, and I expect IPv6 >>> to live long enough :-) )-- so this document would be of help to >>> them. >>=20 >> It=E2=80=99s great you are reaching out to OS developers. That seems = to be >> why it is getting fixed, I am not so sure that publishing an RFC will >> help that much. I do agree there will be new IPv6 implementations. >=20 > It will certainly help in documenting what OSes do, and will certainly > be of help for new implementations, which an learn about the problem = of > predictable I-Ds and also find possible approaches to avoid them. >=20 >=20 I agree. >=20 >>>> In Section 2 "Security Implications of Predictable Fragment >>>> Identification values=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9D. The problems listed seem = to us to be >>>> overstated. As the draft notes later, the issue with >>>> predictable fragment IDs in IPv6 is only an issue for IPv6 >>>> packets with the fragment header. >>>=20 >>> Yes, but you can trigger fragmentation for any traffic flow (see >>> draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation). >>=20 >>=20 >> Yes, if it knows the address of the other side of the connection. >> The attacker would have to be on link, or monitoring the traffic >> between the two hosts. This make this attack much harder in practice >> for an off link attacker. If on link, then there are so many better >> attacks. Hence my comment of the problem being overstated. >=20 > It is trivial to know the IPv6 addresses involved for many scenarios. > e.g. BGP peer to BGP peer, secondary DNS to primary DNS, SMTP server = to > SMTP server, etc. That=E2=80=99s my point. It=E2=80=99s trivial only if you know the = addresses of both side of the connection. It effects well known nodes. = It does not affect the vast majority of hosts on the Internet. Hence, I = think the text should accurately describe the risk. I think the current = text overstates the problem. You could say something like you did = above. Thanks, Bob --Apple-Mail=_2A0149AD-A7AD-45E6-AE83-7E31375109B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVWvb2AAoJEK7rdBF357uoRYYH/2RKvR9D0xSS4QqiMnuaIJgg M8uORg1FibWZP14/mmtzu+SAGwWASoHROtf39SbyXjjdyp7k+FIzgfUHJKhFW2PH Ia/I+v6CIO1uzaqGPm2eyqAzd6e7YxbO558OdDLyc6z3nxuH9hIugQWYTRwSYXJE MYsJ0WdbrIDtBwE49iH8yHgyDuc4SqqqEGcO3gf3KhrRmfpDw9ug50SathgcNOFE Q1Pjp4HcHxSj46Hn20Y/e1J5KZ0INL3tUXdhtyKYSHKmi8Zg0OBlaNUjFl7CTZuX UzwR3kk8Pv0nxMLB/c+eyQAwh8JzcktseQ4PUuVT6mHXyucc13HCreYJ1pFN7Vc= =MxSc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2A0149AD-A7AD-45E6-AE83-7E31375109B3-- From nobody Tue May 19 04:06:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by 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boundary="_000_C9B5F12337F6F841B35C404CF0554ACB8943DE89SZXEMA509MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 11:06:04 -0000 --_000_C9B5F12337F6F841B35C404CF0554ACB8943DE89SZXEMA509MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTWFyaywNCg0KSSBkaWRu4oCZdCBnZXQgeW91ciBwb2ludC4gUkVDT01NRU5ERUQgaXMgaW4g UkZDMjExOSBrZXl3b3JkIGxpc3QuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQpXaWxsIChTaHVjaGVuZyBMSVUpDQoN CkZyb206IE1hcmsgWlpaIFNtaXRoIFttYWlsdG86bWFya3p6enNtaXRoQHlhaG9vLmNvbS5hdV0N ClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIE1heSAxOSwgMjAxNSAxMDoxNSBBTQ0KVG86IExpdXNodWNoZW5nIChX aWxsKQ0KQ2M6IGlwdjZAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtNm1hbi1kZWZhdWx0LWlpZHNAdG9v 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ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB22E1A046D; Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oqjeix3fsC-U; Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1861A038C; Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150519172438.27493.78080.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:38 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 17:24:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Optional RS/RA Refresh Authors : Erik Nordmark Andrew Yourtchenko Suresh Krishnan Filename : draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2015-05-19 Abstract: IPv6 Neighbor Discovery relies on periodic multicast Router Advertisement messages to update timer values and to distribute new information (such as new prefixes) to hosts. On some links the use of periodic multicast messages to all host becomes expensive, and in some cases it results in hosts waking up frequently. Many implementations of RFC 4861 also use multicast for solicited Router Advertisement messages, even though that behavior is optional. This specification provides an optional mechanism for hosts and routers where instead of periodic multicast Router Advertisements the hosts are instructed (by the routers) to use Router Solicitations to request refreshed Router Advertisements. This mechanism is enabled by configuring the router to include a new option in the Router Advertisement in order to allow the network administrator to choose host behavior based on whether periodic multicast are more efficient on their link or not. The routers can also tell whether the hosts are capable of the new behavior through a new flag in the Router Solicitations. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 19 15:56:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2E61B34C7 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:56:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.102 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, HK_RANDOM_REPLYTO=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5FNwxgKhNxU for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm31-vm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm31-vm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C03161B34C1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.au; s=s2048; t=1432076188; bh=XsCtpQ0ocu1ATvtOxR6YKfhSgoG/KrR8eqtYkYtRmBw=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=BxPvm05U+UdVVgkt293QUN2dTXMES0lOWunaxr4e8shYli3Ow/9M6dbhsLKyQSdn35+l7Zj9LkarHHxc4MxLyr5HOgEroIOZAnBnpB6hFVxtkYA4K2U+NJ3dhSMmD7/61tfbvOqZ7PbdotYZc/JQPnBbiMpJhc5+YYJszTCaU6rUnvxsvqh9k4ryBnrPuZTpd71jr7drngpYT4q+rYdP/35BKcd8ppylUaYZAJoevyP7rc39tLBu4xXtXLcH6QqraMKx5/GyC65CXr9CjGn4Ul3p4dEzb7ZXWNGaureWMvdIAcef/0rBgOi9qTZ+z5d2IcLaTSW5dydD2VHpoCM9Vw== Received: from [66.196.81.174] by nm31.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 22:56:28 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.226] by tm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 22:56:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1035.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 22:56:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 897015.887.bm@omp1035.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: oq.Rrh8VM1l0J1aNwAMF2be37eQVO_5vv7RDcM7PqpbJ_sQsyr09z_4LOEByM7h IxNsimaZulsJmgM5CVNyOB25JuWPbZjpgfrCgQfMNpYVpOyvQowtKb5oQ39aMWyl86E_NP3QxfaN Le8LyulhnU6INN0Rg1141t4Sz9gKYrNjeeraL8D5joHxT_z1kOfHxE0V2JWdJ9bSkdfwyXrMAjCq AvaRfKhoNWH0iwG.tJ.MM4bac0ryaM_XNhqcP1YiI4AA5xXh2dsSzfMue6ng5Gz_j5NfzEqwz7qq Ui5tozhEuWiP.KbEyJGp5fnTPhtm8DbkA.O78JvtmdGCABgSv69aEUnDLi_v8z94b96FS4X_B0sb _sHuENF0lZ3W.uggwupQHFikgf9kNCXyw7Bnn4EzGyGtzWPhi2W8JaV.DNvSWwNzR.e_ZQbbYorn MSTGpwJ86_xvtcKM7WQ2F48u9kMPEKoJ3fCWaia8BMzmke3tEXjaRf449A8OAUki871CF5fDfU55 d.SXrYn9FFr.0XQaDX2lq2sT3gxuylGTISOsevUKB0Iz1Fe4- Received: by 76.13.26.198; Tue, 19 May 2015 22:56:28 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:56:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark ZZZ Smith To: "Liushucheng (Will)" Message-ID: <761402527.2863677.1432076187878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2863676_1893295444.1432076187847" Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" , "ipv6@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mark ZZZ Smith List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 22:56:33 -0000 ------=_Part_2863676_1893295444.1432076187847 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Will, I think the RFC 2119 equivalent of "strongly RECOMMENDED" is "SHOULD", so I= think "SHOULD" should be used. I don't think RECOMMENDED is strong enough - recommendation advice is close= to "if you feel like it". If the IIDs are going to be derived from link-la= yer addresses, and those link-layer addresses can be made random, so that t= he randomness property carries over to the derived IIDs, then I think a sta= tement that this SHOULD be done is consistent with the theme of the draft. Regards,Mark. From: Liushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith =20 Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" =20 Sent: Tuesday, 19 May 2015, 21:05 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =20 #yiv1750598414 #yiv1750598414 -- _filtered #yiv1750598414 {font-family:Helv= etica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1750598414 {font-family= :=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;} _filtered #yiv1750598414= {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1750598414 {font-family:Cali= bri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv1750598414 {panose-1:2 1 = 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}#yiv1750598414 #yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414MsoNormal, #y= iv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414MsoNormal, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414Mso= Normal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5= =AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1750598414 a:link, #yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414Ms= oHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1750598414 a:visited,= #yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-d= ecoration:underline;}#yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414msonormal, #yiv175059841= 4 li.yiv1750598414msonormal, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msonormal {mar= gin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD= =93;}#yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414msochpdefault, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750= 598414msochpdefault, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msochpdefault {margin-= right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}= #yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414msonormal1, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414ms= onormal1, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msonormal1 {margin-right:0cm;marg= in-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1750598414= p.yiv1750598414msochpdefault1, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414msochpdefaul= t1, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msochpdefault1 {margin-right:0cm;margin= -left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1750598414 s= pan.yiv1750598414msohyperlink {}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414msohyperli= nkfollowed {}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414msohyperlink1 {}#yiv175059841= 4 span.yiv1750598414msohyperlinkfollowed1 {}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv17505984= 14emailstyle171 {}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414emailstyle27 {}#yiv17505= 98414 p.yiv1750598414msonormal2, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414msonormal2,= #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msonormal2 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001= pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv= 1750598414msohyperlink2 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv17505984= 14 span.yiv1750598414msohyperlinkfollowed2 {color:purple;text-decoration:un= derline;}#yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414msonormal3, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv175= 0598414msonormal3, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msonormal3 {margin-right= :0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1= 750598414 p.yiv1750598414msochpdefault2, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414mso= chpdefault2, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msochpdefault2 {margin-right:0= cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv175= 0598414 p.yiv1750598414msonormal11, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv1750598414msonorma= l11, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msonormal11 {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:= .0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;}#yiv1750598414 spa= n.yiv1750598414msohyperlink11 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv17= 50598414 span.yiv1750598414msohyperlinkfollowed11 {color:purple;text-decora= tion:underline;}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414emailstyle1711 {color:#1F4= 97D;}#yiv1750598414 p.yiv1750598414msochpdefault11, #yiv1750598414 li.yiv17= 50598414msochpdefault11, #yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414msochpdefault11 {m= argin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4= =BD=93;}#yiv1750598414 span.yiv1750598414emailstyle271 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv= 1750598414 span.yiv1750598414EmailStyle38 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1750598414 .y= iv1750598414MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv1750598414 {mar= gin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;}#yiv1750598414 div.yiv1750598414WordSectio= n1 {}#yiv1750598414 Hi Mark, =C2=A0 I didn=E2=80=99t get your point. RECOM= MENDED is in RFC2119 keyword list. =C2=A0 Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) = =C2=A0=20 From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:15 AM To: Liushucheng (Will) Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi Wil= l, =C2=A0 In that case, sticking to RFC2119 keywords, I'd say it should be= a SHOULD rather than a RECOMMENDED. =C2=A0 Regards, Mark. =C2=A0 From: L= iushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" Sent: Monday, 18 May 2015, 12:30 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi Mar= k, =C2=A0 I'd keep 'RECOMMENDED' since 'STRONGLY' is not really a RFC2119 k= eyword, only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD"= , "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",=C2=A0 "MAY", and "OPTIONAL". =C2=A0 Regards,= Will (Shucheng LIU) =C2=A0 From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo= .com.au] Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2015 11:10 AM To: Liushucheng (Will) Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Liushucheng (Will) To: Mark ZZZ Smith Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" ; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ie= tf.org" Sent: Friday, 8 May 2015, 15:58 Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi Mark= , =C2=A0 Thank you for your comments. The part you added makes sense. We wi= ll update the document accordingly. =C2=A0 / A further little thought, perh= aps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the text I suggested, since the IPv6 IIDs ar= e not going to be following the IID recommendations in the document? =C2=A0= Regards, Mark. =C2=A0 Regards, Will (Shucheng LIU) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: ipv= 6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Mark ZZZ Smith Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:50 AM To: internet-drafts@ietf.org;i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt =C2=A0 Hi, =C2= =A0 I've one suggestion for the following text (**s) =C2=A0 "It is RECOMMEN= DED by this document that future specifications do not =C2=A0 =C2=A0specify= IPv6 address generation schemes that embed the underlying =C2=A0 =C2=A0lin= k-layer address in the IID. =C2=A0Future specifications MAY use an IID =C2= =A0 =C2=A0based on a node's link-layer address if design and engineering = =C2=A0 =C2=A0considerations warrant. ** Note that some link-layers support = locally assigned link-layer addresses [IEEE 802-2001], such as [IEEE 802.3]= and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs ar= e to be derived from link-layer addresses, it is RECOMMENDED that the rando= m addresses supported by the link-layer are used, or that pseudo-random loc= ally assigned link-layer addresses are generated, assigned and used.***" = =C2=A0 Regards, Mark. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ipv6@ietf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53 Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= . =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Fernando G= ont =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alissa Cooper =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dave Thaler =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Will Liu =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 9 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2015-05-= 06 Abstract: =C2=A0 The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format =C2=A0 Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s =C2=A0 specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link- =C2=A0 layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6 =C2=A0 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).=C2=A0 The security and =C2=A0 privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the =C2=A0 Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time =C2=A0 now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m =C2=A0 such schemes to mitigate these issues.=C2=A0 This document changes t= he =C2=A0 recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC =C2=A0 to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link- =C2=A0 layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.=C2=A0 It formally upd= ates =C2=A0 RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590, =C2=A0 RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and =C2=A0 RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from =C2=A0 the underlying link-layer address.=C2=A0 Additionally, this document =C2=A0 provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with =C2=A0 other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host =C2=A0 Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 ------=_Part_2863676_1893295444.1432076187847 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Will,

I think the RFC 2119 equivalent of "strongly RECOMMENDED" is "S= HOULD", so I think "SHOULD" should be used.

I don't think RECOMMENDED is strong enough - recommend= ation advice is close to "if you feel like it". If the IIDs are going to be= derived from link-layer addresses, and those link-layer addresses can be m= ade random, so that the randomness property carries over to the derived IID= s, then I think a statement that this SHOULD be done is consistent with the= theme of the draft.

= Regards,
Mark.=




From: Lius= hucheng (Will) <liushucheng@huawei.com>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>= ;
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" = <ipv6@ietf.org>; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" <dr= aft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, 19 May 2015, 21:05
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6m= an-default-iids-03.txt

Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
I didn=E2=80=99t get your point. RECOMMENDED is in RFC2119 k= eyword list.
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
W= ill (Shucheng LIU)
=20
 
=20


From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:15 AM
To: Liushucheng (Will)
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt<= /div>=20
 =20
Hi Will,
=20
 
=20
In that case, sticking to RFC2119 keywords, I'd say = it should be a SHOULD rather than a RECOMMENDED.
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20

From: Liushucheng (Will) <liushucheng= @huawei.com>
To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" <= ;ipv6@ietf.org>; "draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, 18 May 2015, 12:30
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">
=20
 
=20
Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
I'd keep 'RECOMMENDED' since 'STRON= GLY' is not really a RFC2119 keyword, only "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", = "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTI= ONAL".
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Will (Shucheng LIU)=
=20
 
=20
From: Mark ZZZ Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2015 11:10 AM
To: Liushucheng (Will)
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-default-iids@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"">
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
Hi Mark,
=20
 
=20
Thank you for your comm= ents. The part you added makes sense. We will update the document according= ly.
=20
 
=20
/ A further little thou= ght, perhaps "STRONGLY RECOMMENDED" for the text I suggested, since the IPv= 6 IIDs are not going to be following the IID recommendations in the document?=
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Will (Shucheng= LIU)
=20
 
=20
 
=20
 
=20
Hi,
=20
 
=20
I've one suggestion for the following te= xt (**s)
=20
 
=20
"It is RECOMMENDED by this document that= future specifications do not
=20
   specify IPv6 address genera= tion schemes that embed the underlying
=20
   link-layer address in the I= ID.  Future specifications MAY use an IID
=20
   based on a node's link-laye= r address if design and engineering
=20
   considerations warrant. ** = Note that some link-layers support locally assigned link-layer addresses [I= EEE 802-2001], such as [IEEE 802.3] and [IEEE 802.11], or random addresses [Bluetooth 4.1]. Where IPv6 IIDs are to be derived from link-layer address= es, it is RECOMMENDED that the random addresses supported by the link-layer= are used, or that pseudo-random locally assigned link-layer addresses are = generated, assigned and used.***"
=20
 
=20
Regards,
=20
Mark.
=20
 
=20
 
=20

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org= " <interne= t-drafts@ietf.org>
To: i-d-ann= ounce@ietf.org
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2015, 6:53
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt
=20


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF= .

        Title          : Recom= mendation on Stable IPv6 Interface Identifiers
        Authors        : Fernando G= ont
                     = ;     Alissa Cooper
                     = ;     Dave Thaler
                     = ;     Will Liu
    Filename        : draft-ietf-6man-de= fault-iids-03.txt
    Pages          : 9
    Date            : 2015-05-= 06

Abstract:
  The IPv6 addressing architecture defines Modified EUI-64 format
  Interface Identifiers, and the existing IPv6 over various link-layer= s
  specify how such identifiers are derived from the underlying link-   layer address (e.g., an IEEE LAN MAC address) when employing IPv6   Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC).  The security and<= br clear=3D"none">   privacy implications of embedding link-layer addresses in the
  Interface Identifier have been known and understood for some time   now, and some popular IPv6 implementations have already deviated fro= m
  such schemes to mitigate these issues.  This document changes t= he
  recommended default Interface Identifier generation scheme for SLAAC=
  to that specified in RFC7217, and recommends against embedding link-=
  layer addresses in IPv6 Interface Identifiers.  It formally upd= ates
  RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, RFC2491, RFC2492, RFC2497, RFC2590,
  RFC3146, RFC3572, RFC4291, RFC4338, RFC4391, RFC4944, RFC5072, and   RFC5121, which require IPv6 Interface Identifiers to be derived from=
  the underlying link-layer address.  Additionally, this document=
  provides advice about the generation of Interface Identifiers with   other address configuration mechanisms, such as Dynamic Host
  Configuration Protocol version 6 (DHCPv6) and manual configuration.<= br clear=3D"none">

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man= -default-iids/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-default= -iids-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-i= etf-6man-default-iids-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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------=_Part_2863676_1893295444.1432076187847-- From nobody Tue May 19 16:29:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661311B3553 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6KmNQ6zzRe8U for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 074851B3555 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pabru16 with SMTP id ru16so43785132pab.1 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rCoGe8vUVyd5Y3G2UimhLos9u39vn8KnWJHY8d9+y/g=; b=hKBbhBWkPMTzUt1CZmmurudQMJIXTZL+nMvxc6snfwvW5ad4FgChJPVknwIoPMPSim 8s2Ac39vIvBc7fXgtWbqnAy03vX2OQAk4Qn7w6ETtwWOllqmyNqoxiF2rxbagwzZu+la pNC1Rnu1+jbElQgLJDEiYfuYAPa87RzCqPP1F+BWDOOJ5w5sKOkocu7/ecDFz80ocE1J aFTLwpm90fYYfULLy5FjQV9MgabNffNEFuimHy75jaUna/zi4dUCGwoG4lXm1S9kPsHw s1hYc5NTnHs+MlNiWd2YuLlTZE00NzJNsyyYLCV7HwBtUIMj5oDQvDuZqM+TNRNecyWE +NhQ== X-Received: by 10.68.221.70 with SMTP id qc6mr58038282pbc.76.1432078165614; Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df0:0:2006:c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76? ([2001:df0:0:2006:c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id tw8sm14086694pbc.59.2015.05.19.16.29.22 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 May 2015 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <555BC755.7020402@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 11:29:25 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-default-iids-03.txt References: <761402527.2863677.1432076187878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <761402527.2863677.1432076187878.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 23:29:27 -0000 On 20/05/2015 10:56, Mark ZZZ Smith wrote: > Hi Will, > I think the RFC 2119 equivalent of "strongly RECOMMENDED" is "SHOULD", so I think "SHOULD" should be used. SHOULD and RECOMMENDED are defined as identical by RFC 2119: 3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course. Humans might interpret the words differently, but formally they are the same. Good practice is to list an exclusive set of reasons to ignore the recommendation. The only stronger wording that I know of is MUST...unless... (or REQUIRED...unless... if you want an adjective), or some equivalent. In RFC 7045 we did it this way: A forwarding node MUST either leave a non-zero flow label value unchanged or change it only for compelling operational security reasons as described in Section 6.1. Brian From nobody Wed May 20 13:30:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 718201A90AA for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:30:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.934 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.934 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dg9HAizI9JWA for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:30:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from d.mail.sonic.net (d.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3FFE1A90A8 for <6man@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 May 2015 13:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.227.238] ([162.210.130.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by d.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id t4KKUKgN005171 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 20 May 2015 13:30:20 -0700 Message-ID: <555CEEDD.1060901@acm.org> Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 13:30:21 -0700 From: Erik Nordmark User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org> Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt References: <20150519172438.27493.96240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150519172438.27493.96240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20150519172438.27493.96240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080500020909080401080704" X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVbvJXMsgMslmLU/naVbeJCjFyTCrergIhYA3cgNQ2NXZ1aJHrY19MkCRfdOWmG6YB3LszuP+64oN5phjzB84KrY X-Sonic-ID: C;BojRCC//5BG2fzDDQUxNRQ== M;pNzoCC//5BG2fzDDQUxNRQ== X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 20:30:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080500020909080401080704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This draft has changes based on the discussion in Dallas and on the list. See below. Based on the discussion I think it also makes sense to add something to make it more clear that hosts which sleep on a schedule will end up missing any unsolicted RAs with new information (and the draft requires certain behavior when such hosts wake up), but that should not be construed as an argument that all hosts can choose to ignore unsolicited RAs. Suggested text is welcome! Erik 14. Change Log Changes since draft-nordmark-6man-rs-refresh-01 of the draft: o Made Refresh Time zero be reserved and RTOs with this value ignored by the receiver. o Removed notion that all-ones refresh time means infinite lifetime. It now means 65535 seconds. o Changed default to be multicast RS refresh, with the option to specify unicast in the RTO. This enables discovering new routers on the link. o Clarified the normative behavior for hosts that sleep on a schedule. o Clarified the updated DNA behavior. o Editorial fixes. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:38 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Andrew Yourtchenko , Suresh Krishnan , Andrew Yourtchenko , Suresh Krishnan , Erik Nordmark , Erik Nordmark A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Erik Nordmark and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh Revision: 00 Title: IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Optional RS/RA Refresh Document date: 2015-05-19 Group: 6man Pages: 14 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00 Abstract: IPv6 Neighbor Discovery relies on periodic multicast Router Advertisement messages to update timer values and to distribute new information (such as new prefixes) to hosts. On some links the use of periodic multicast messages to all host becomes expensive, and in some cases it results in hosts waking up frequently. Many implementations of RFC 4861 also use multicast for solicited Router Advertisement messages, even though that behavior is optional. This specification provides an optional mechanism for hosts and routers where instead of periodic multicast Router Advertisements the hosts are instructed (by the routers) to use Router Solicitations to request refreshed Router Advertisements. This mechanism is enabled by configuring the router to include a new option in the Router Advertisement in order to allow the network administrator to choose host behavior based on whether periodic multicast are more efficient on their link or not. The routers can also tell whether the hosts are capable of the new behavior through a new flag in the Router Solicitations. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------080500020909080401080704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

This draft has changes based on the discussion in Dallas and on the list. See below.

Based on the discussion I think it also makes sense to add something to make it more clear that hosts which sleep on a schedule will end up missing any unsolicted RAs with new information (and the draft requires certain behavior when such hosts wake up), but that should not be construed as an argument that all hosts can choose to ignore unsolicited RAs.
Suggested text is welcome!

   Erik


14.  Change Log

   Changes since draft-nordmark-6man-rs-refresh-01 of the draft:

   o  Made Refresh Time zero be reserved and RTOs with this value
      ignored by the receiver.

   o  Removed notion that all-ones refresh time means infinite lifetime.
      It now means 65535 seconds.

   o  Changed default to be multicast RS refresh, with the option to
      specify unicast in the RTO.  This enables discovering new routers
      on the link.

   o  Clarified the normative behavior for hosts that sleep on a
      schedule.

   o  Clarified the updated DNA behavior.

   o  Editorial fixes.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 10:24:38 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Andrew Yourtchenko <ayourtch@cisco.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>, Andrew Yourtchenko <ayourtch@cisco.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>, Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>


A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Erik Nordmark and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh
Revision:	00
Title:		IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Optional RS/RA Refresh
Document date:	2015-05-19
Group:		6man
Pages:		14
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rs-refresh-00


Abstract:
   IPv6 Neighbor Discovery relies on periodic multicast Router
   Advertisement messages to update timer values and to distribute new
   information (such as new prefixes) to hosts.  On some links the use
   of periodic multicast messages to all host becomes expensive, and in
   some cases it results in hosts waking up frequently.  Many
   implementations of RFC 4861 also use multicast for solicited Router
   Advertisement messages, even though that behavior is optional.

   This specification provides an optional mechanism for hosts and
   routers where instead of periodic multicast Router Advertisements the
   hosts are instructed (by the routers) to use Router Solicitations to
   request refreshed Router Advertisements.  This mechanism is enabled
   by configuring the router to include a new option in the Router
   Advertisement in order to allow the network administrator to choose
   host behavior based on whether periodic multicast are more efficient
   on their link or not.  The routers can also tell whether the hosts
   are capable of the new behavior through a new flag in the Router
   Solicitations.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



--------------080500020909080401080704-- From nobody Fri May 29 01:13:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284C51B2A98; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:13:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m31VVv-4fBvr; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C195D1B2A9E; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:12:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-07.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150529081259.13500.61578.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 01:12:59 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: ipv6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 08:13:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. Title : Security Implications of Predictable Fragment Identification Values Author : Fernando Gont Filename : draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-07.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2015-05-29 Abstract: IPv6 specifies the Fragment Header, which is employed for the fragmentation and reassembly mechanisms. The Fragment Header contains an "Identification" field which, together with the IPv6 Source Address and the IPv6 Destination Address of a packet, identifies fragments that correspond to the same original datagram, such that they can be reassembled together by the receiving host. The only requirement for setting the "Identification" field is that the corresponding value must be different than that employed for any other fragmented packet sent recently with the same Source Address and Destination Address. Some implementations use a simple global counter for setting the Identification field, thus leading to predictable Identification values. This document analyzes the security implications of predictable Identification values, and provides implementation guidance for selecting the Identification field of the Fragment Header, such that the aforementioned security implications are mitigated. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-6man-predictable-fragment-id-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri May 29 01:36:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E401A86EB for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g06Kn78WnOVW for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web01.jbserver.net (web01.jbserver.net [IPv6:2a00:8240:6:a::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B68321A01FC for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 01:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cl-1071.udi-01.br.sixxs.net ([2001:1291:200:42e::2]) by web01.jbserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YyFm0-0005pP-Vu; Fri, 29 May 2015 10:36:13 +0200 Message-ID: <55682029.2040609@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 05:15:37 -0300 From: Fernando Gont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Chairs Review on References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 08:36:18 -0000 Hi, Bob, On 05/19/2015 05:40 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>>>> In Section 2 "Security Implications of Predictable Fragment >>>>> Identification values”. The problems listed seem to us to >>>>> be overstated. As the draft notes later, the issue with >>>>> predictable fragment IDs in IPv6 is only an issue for IPv6 >>>>> packets with the fragment header. >>>> >>>> Yes, but you can trigger fragmentation for any traffic flow >>>> (see draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation). >>> >>> >>> Yes, if it knows the address of the other side of the >>> connection. The attacker would have to be on link, or monitoring >>> the traffic between the two hosts. This make this attack much >>> harder in practice for an off link attacker. If on link, then >>> there are so many better attacks. Hence my comment of the >>> problem being overstated. >> >> It is trivial to know the IPv6 addresses involved for many >> scenarios. e.g. BGP peer to BGP peer, secondary DNS to primary DNS, >> SMTP server to SMTP server, etc. > > That’s my point. It’s trivial only if you know the addresses of both > side of the connection. It effects well known nodes. It does not > affect the vast majority of hosts on the Internet. Hence, I think > the text should accurately describe the risk. I think the current > text overstates the problem. You could say something like you did > above. I've added text along these lines and rev'ed the I-D. P.S.: Ready to ship now? Thanks so much! Cheers, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri May 29 08:21:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D9A01AC44B for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3viTY67gFYjk for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x230.google.com (mail-wg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 513101A90C8 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgme6 with SMTP id e6so65579826wgm.2 for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=KEE5eiZDaM0bvD13+0Cohijd4TCCT6psT1ZLllVk5Lc=; b=qxNkI0UmXoM7BcU8s95Afh4XUnI5OQe774xtktxuKYg02cKxxm17yjou5CYpi9QQva GMbAq/3whJA+2KA87wjR2rxw0jdHWzdIjrgE0uv2BoUV6h+A9kc5NsW4DTdcn9Po7mH3 qX1PLg6MfTNjyXgcGWPLdw58xGudpI+Ojayxh7UXLmEW/NyL6FzzDKRXTdjTEuWUweYZ E/F+XM1eaua0F3Aq6W/PTfC1VutHYDybMLV8aEq66n4eE8RhngKa9/Py+7SXVc+504eH loyVHznksGlilmgHYtofcQtuKXYEjyLXANnFPxu2kgitRPigxHtHNTf+sHf6MSUXCl7A vgXA== X-Received: by 10.180.90.209 with SMTP id by17mr7486673wib.2.1432912895996; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:9:400:ac2:45a6:1e7a:b2f0:f3d5? ([2601:9:400:ac2:45a6:1e7a:b2f0:f3d5]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bh7sm8811572wjb.8.2015.05.29.08.21.33 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Chairs Review on Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5F5DC48E-A41A-4875-8D10-F70A19A92075"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <55682029.2040609@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 08:21:30 -0700 Message-Id: <0427FFC3-B085-44B2-BD4E-15991CE6E18C@gmail.com> References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> <55682029.2040609@si6networks.com> To: Fernando Gont X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List , Bob Hinden X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 15:21:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5F5DC48E-A41A-4875-8D10-F70A19A92075 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fernando, > On May 29, 2015, at 1:15 AM, Fernando Gont = wrote: >=20 > Hi, Bob, >=20 > On 05/19/2015 05:40 AM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>>>>> In Section 2 "Security Implications of Predictable Fragment >>>>>> Identification values=C3=A2=C2=80=C2=9D. The problems listed = seem to us to >>>>>> be overstated. As the draft notes later, the issue with >>>>>> predictable fragment IDs in IPv6 is only an issue for IPv6 >>>>>> packets with the fragment header. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes, but you can trigger fragmentation for any traffic flow >>>>> (see draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-atomfrag-generation). >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Yes, if it knows the address of the other side of the >>>> connection. The attacker would have to be on link, or monitoring >>>> the traffic between the two hosts. This make this attack much >>>> harder in practice for an off link attacker. If on link, then >>>> there are so many better attacks. Hence my comment of the >>>> problem being overstated. >>>=20 >>> It is trivial to know the IPv6 addresses involved for many >>> scenarios. e.g. BGP peer to BGP peer, secondary DNS to primary DNS, >>> SMTP server to SMTP server, etc. >>=20 >> That=E2=80=99s my point. It=E2=80=99s trivial only if you know the = addresses of both >> side of the connection. It effects well known nodes. It does not >> affect the vast majority of hosts on the Internet. Hence, I think >> the text should accurately describe the risk. I think the current >> text overstates the problem. You could say something like you did >> above. >=20 > I've added text along these lines and rev'ed the I-D. >=20 > P.S.: Ready to ship now? I will take a look. This was the last issue I had. Thanks, Bob --Apple-Mail=_5F5DC48E-A41A-4875-8D10-F70A19A92075 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJVaIP6AAoJEK7rdBF357uobNQIAJejxg53baNTvUocLNPkwxp8 Ljw2xkw02pnUPzj9ApeqaIMcZJOdxbq+oo1To6MFgS2IKiwcmR8yAUCcS18SsAAx FKGq3tfkaOQ22zHbh1KVkSHSZEmFZg7wS+whZM7PEISqGwqehAr35BbS544NFSVO rjNXhj/4F6Nz+55+gHiDkUblWYYw41RWV9skHuV2M3sA0A8hA1oU15/H91CEeBPR VVhZ3nXDCMHAZLkZv0NoL/+gz0ycTjOMeHhuHnjIvMD9TSwK7GZeN26t7ZZ2rI3F l5U0RaI+dM0AFo995ba8oy3qAmo4HHp8yL6v9jRV2kkl3QbUI63jKfDh6aXYnnY= =zsOp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5F5DC48E-A41A-4875-8D10-F70A19A92075-- From nobody Fri May 29 08:39:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5C81ACD2B for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:39:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mVxdXxbApeZa for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web01.jbserver.net (web01.jbserver.net [IPv6:2a00:8240:6:a::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AD4F1A88CA for ; Fri, 29 May 2015 08:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cl-1071.udi-01.br.sixxs.net ([2001:1291:200:42e::2]) by web01.jbserver.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YyMNO-0006yS-RI; Fri, 29 May 2015 17:39:15 +0200 Message-ID: <55688813.6000202@si6networks.com> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 12:38:59 -0300 From: Fernando Gont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Hinden Subject: Re: Chairs Review on References: <6277AC1A-F1ED-4BE9-984E-C424BC9A5136@gmail.com> <54FCDECD.2040609@si6networks.com> <75C9B430-7D39-4466-AB17-0F3553EC6EB4@gmail.com> <555AE0AF.5050601@si6networks.com> <55682029.2040609@si6networks.com> <0427FFC3-B085-44B2-BD4E-15991CE6E18C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0427FFC3-B085-44B2-BD4E-15991CE6E18C@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 List X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 15:39:22 -0000 Hi, Bob, On 05/29/2015 12:21 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: >>> That’s my point. It’s trivial only if you know the addresses of both >>> side of the connection. It effects well known nodes. It does not >>> affect the vast majority of hosts on the Internet. Hence, I think >>> the text should accurately describe the risk. I think the current >>> text overstates the problem. You could say something like you did >>> above. >> >> I've added text along these lines and rev'ed the I-D. >> >> P.S.: Ready to ship now? > > I will take a look. This was the last issue I had. FWIW, the text says: ---- cut here ---- The scenarios in which an attacker may successfully perform the aforementioned attacks depend on the specific attack type. For example, in order to DoS communications between two hosts, an attacker would need to know the IPv6 addresses employed by the aforementioned two nodes. Such knowledge may be readily available if the target of the attack is the communication between two specific BGP peers, two specific SMTP servers, or one specific primary DNS server and one of its secondary DNS servers, but may not be easily available if goal of the attack is to DoS all communications between arbitrary IPv6 hosts (e.g. the goal was to DoS all communications involving one specific node with arbitrary/unknown hosts). Other attacks, such as performing stealth port scans to a third-party or determining the packet rate at which a given system is transmitting information, only require the attacker to know the IPv6 address of a vulnerable implementation. ---- cut here ---- Thanks! Cheers, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 From nobody Fri May 29 15:03:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E76B1B2DCD; Fri, 29 May 2015 15:03:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VtpsPtZHr0-4; Fri, 29 May 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BD81B2DC7; Fri, 29 May 2015 15:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id AEBBB18046D; Fri, 29 May 2015 15:01:23 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 7559 on Packet-Loss Resiliency for Router Solicitations X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Message-Id: <20150529220123.AEBBB18046D@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 15:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 22:03:41 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 7559 Title: Packet-Loss Resiliency for Router Solicitations Author: S. Krishnan, D. Anipko, D. Thaler Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: May 2015 Mailbox: suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com, dmitry.anipko@gmail.com, dthaler@microsoft.com Pages: 6 Characters: 11619 Updates: RFC 4861 I-D Tag: draft-ietf-6man-resilient-rs-06.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7559 DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.17487/RFC7559 When an interface on a host is initialized, the host transmits Router Solicitations in order to minimize the amount of time it needs to wait until the next unsolicited multicast Router Advertisement is received. In certain scenarios, these Router Solicitations transmitted by the host might be lost. This document specifies a mechanism for hosts to cope with the loss of the initial Router Solicitations. This document is a product of the IPv6 Maintenance Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. 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