From nobody Wed Jan 3 09:23:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA2712D7E2 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:23:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPyEqMJIyqgs for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7117E12D82D for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.230]) by resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id WmkTeFHUaP3F3Wml4eJhop; Wed, 03 Jan 2018 17:23:18 +0000 Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id WmiuekJqCWQ7ZWmixe3OAY; Wed, 03 Jan 2018 17:21:16 +0000 From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F863C3B1-C4BB-403A-BDCA-1A004F556085" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <83281488-E942-4A8F-8C87-B4076734D3D1@tony.li> References: <151499984931.30939.8391883445576375968.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: dcrouting@ietf.org, isis-wg@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:21:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDslTiYr/r+A4b7MnTkwaABFqYU6+YSKbohpFKPNwV9sfsCg00fQPoAPnunvRk3hVCm7mLbYLAH+qYmiJGtFPIGdTM9/wb/ZLhT/3bOvijM+MfWWHuf8 P2cZ6Nn4Pv5L/clSDvTdw3b67wH23atdMd3/RHPk9iRGt2q0emS4Ie9DM0yyr1k8i58ZlH2E+v9MZWSYJwaGTRFdgRdFt4TFuPw= Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 17:23:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F863C3B1-C4BB-403A-BDCA-1A004F556085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FYI... > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt > Date: January 3, 2018 at 9:17:29 AM PST > To: "Tony Li" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-li-dynamic-flooding > Revision: 00 > Title: An Architecture for Dynamic Flooding on Dense = Graphs > Document date: 2018-01-02 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 8 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-dynamic-flooding/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can > result in suboptimal convergence times due to the overhead = associated > with flooding. This can be addressed by decreasing the flooding > topology so that it is less dense. >=20 > This document discusses the problem in some depth and an > architectural solution. Specific protocol changes are not described > in this document. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_F863C3B1-C4BB-403A-BDCA-1A004F556085 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

FYI...

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt
Date: = January 3, 2018 at 9:17:29 AM = PST
To: = "Tony Li" <tony.li@tony.li>

A new version of I-D, draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to = the
IETF repository.

Name: = draft-li-dynamic-flooding
Revision: 00
Title:= = An Architecture for Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs
Document date: 2018-01-02
Group:= = Individual Submission
Pages: 8
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-= 00.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-dynamic-flooding/=
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-00Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding= -00


Abstract:
  Routing with link state protocols in dense = network topologies can
  result in suboptimal = convergence times due to the overhead associated
=   with flooding.  This can be addressed by decreasing the = flooding
  topology so that it is less = dense.

  This document discusses = the problem in some depth and an
=   architectural solution.  Specific protocol changes are = not described
  in this document.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat


= --Apple-Mail=_F863C3B1-C4BB-403A-BDCA-1A004F556085-- From nobody Wed Jan 3 23:35:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietf.org Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4881276AF; Wed, 3 Jan 2018 23:35:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151505130060.18436.1152788384639286014@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 23:35:00 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 07:35:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Readable Label-stack Depth Using IS-IS Authors : Xiaohu Xu Sriganesh Kini Siva Sivabalan Clarence Filsfils Stephane Litkowski Filename : draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2018-01-03 Abstract: Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) has defined a mechanism to load balance traffic flows using Entropy Labels (EL). An ingress Label Switching Router (LSR) cannot insert ELs for packets going into a given tunnel unless an egress LSR has indicated via signaling that it has the capability of processing ELs, referred to as Entropy Label Capability (ELC), on that tunnel. In addition, it would be useful for ingress LSRs to know each LSR's capability of reading the maximum label stack depth, referred to as Readable Label-stack Depth (RLD), in the cases where stacked LSPs are used for whatever reasons. This document defines mechanisms to signal these two capabilities using OSPF. These mechanisms are useful when the label advertisement is also done via IS-IS. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jan 4 16:47:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A1B1273E2; Thu, 4 Jan 2018 16:47:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.529 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.529 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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--_000_1A958D80C689447A96ED5AA365F2AF14ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 5 13:58:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietf.org Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03B71200B9; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 13:58:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151518951967.14694.10704467312779091937@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:58:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-08.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 21:58:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-08.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-01-05 Abstract: This document proposes a way to signal Maximum SID Depth (MSD) supported by a node and/or link granularity by an IS-IS Router. In a Segment Routing (SR) enabled network a centralized controller that programs SR tunnels needs to know the MSD supported by the head-end at node and/or link granularity to impose the SID stack of an appropriate depth. MSD is relevant to the head-end of a SR tunnel or Binding-SID anchor node where Binding-SID expansions might result in creation of a new SID stack. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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-0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: "t.petch" CC: "isis-wg@ietf.org list" , Christian Hopps , "isis-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 Thread-Index: AQHTXmMvIlsDCkaUj0W5jcon0L55haMrdnkAgAD5RwCAFzjKAIAWpEsAgAAgg36ADEXKAA== Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 00:31:16 +0000 Message-ID: <9EED72FB-9263-4DA1-95C1-D4E1B4C1A6C0@cisco.com> References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <007601d38094$72d122a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <007601d38094$72d122a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.156.165.58] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9EED72FB92634DA195C1D4E1B4C1A6C0ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 00:31:20 -0000 --_000_9EED72FB92634DA195C1D4E1B4C1A6C0ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpIaSBUb20sDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldywgc29tZSByZXBsaWVzIGlubGluZSwN Cg0KT24gRGVjIDI5LCAyMDE3LCBhdCAyOjUzIEFNLCB0LnBldGNoIDxpZXRmY0BidGNvbm5lY3Qu Y29tPG1haWx0bzppZXRmY0BidGNvbm5lY3QuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCkEgY291cGxlIG9mIElB TkEgdGhvdWdodHMgb24gdGhpcyBJLUQ7DQoNCiJUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHJlcXVlc3RzIHRoYXQg SUFOQSBhbGxvY2F0ZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBJUy1JUyBUTFYNCiAgQ29kZXBvaW50cyBSZWdpc3RyeSBh IG5ldyBUTFYsICINCg0KLSBJcyB0aGVyZSBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgcmFuZ2UgdGhhdCB0aGlzIHZh 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btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2018 12:17:25.6422 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 645556f2-58f8-42df-4ba5-08d554ff72ca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB3007 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 12:17:32 -0000 Naiming One follow-up comment inline Tom Petch ---- Original Message ----- From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:31 AM > Hi Tom, > > Thanks for the review, some replies inline, > > On Dec 29, 2017, at 2:53 AM, t.petch > wrote: > > A couple of IANA thoughts on this I-D; > > "This document requests that IANA allocate from the IS-IS TLV > Codepoints Registry a new TLV, " > > - Is there a particular range that this value should come from? > > NS> will add the range. > > > - A note in s.2 asking that TBD be replaced by the value that IANA > allocates might be useful for the RFC Editor. > > NS> will do. > > > - Are the flag bits of this new TLV going to form a new registry? > > NS> it is not. > > > - And a non-IANA thought - what does a receiver do if it receives more > than one such TLV? > > NS> In section 2, it mentions "A sender MUST only transmit a single > Reverse Metric TLV in a IS-IS Hello PDU.” I know it does, but I also know that we cannot rely on all implementations being perfect:-) Look at some other RFC (e.g. RFC5029) and you will find an action defined such as subsequent ones will be ignored, or perhaps that this should be treated as a fatal error or .. I suggest something similar here although have no strong views what the action should be. Tom Petch > "This document also request that IANA allocate from the link-attribute > bit value for sub-TLV 19 of TLV 22." > I struggled to parse this initially. > > Perhaps > "This document also requests that IANA allocate a bit from the > 'link-attribute bit values for sub-TLV 19 of TLV 22' registry. > > > NS> OK. > > (That registry title is a bit of a mouthful compounded by the lack of > Capitals in the title:-( > > The coupling between the request to IANA to allocate the bit and the > actual definition in the body of the I-D is ... well, non-existent. You > should have a something about the octet with a TBD2 (not a second TBD) > in section 3.6, a TBD2 in the IANA actions and a request that this be > replaced by RFC Editor by the value that IANA allocates. > > > NS> will do. > > thanks. > - Naiming > > Yes, a reader can deduce all this but the lack of precision is how > mistakes are made IMO. RFC5209 has the sort of detail that I would > expect. > > Tom Petch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" > > > > From nobody Sat Jan 6 11:39:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7B412D574; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:39:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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<9EED72FB-9263-4DA1-95C1-D4E1B4C1A6C0@cisco.com> <00e501d386e8$35957bc0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.76.21] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <19F734D25FF21E4C9891AE294909B114@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2018 05:22:09 -0000 DQpUb20sDQoNCkFjdHVhbGx5IFJGQyA1MDI5IGRvZXMgbm90IG1lbnRpb24gYW55dGhpbmcgYWJv dXQgaGFuZGxpbmcNCm11bHRpcGxlIHNhbWUgbGluay1hdHRyaWJ1dGUgc3ViLVRMViwgaXQganVz 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id w07Esafo026398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:54:36 GMT Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) by XCH-ALN-003.cisco.com (173.36.7.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 08:54:35 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com ([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 08:54:35 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" , "t.petch" CC: Christian Hopps , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "isis-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 Thread-Index: AQHTXmMvlgkIDV+E7Ums3rNnnpfKNKMrdnkAgAD5SQCAFzjIAIAWpE0AgAAgkcOADEW6AIAAYM5OgADgCwCAAKK7AIAAONyQ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:54:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <007601d38094$72d122a0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <9EED72FB-9263-4DA1-95C1-D4E1B4C1A6C0@cisco.com> <00e501d386e8$35957bc0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <5DA4C022-143A-4706-A53E-2C9CFBF4C9DC@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5DA4C022-143A-4706-A53E-2C9CFBF4C9DC@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.100.185] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2018 14:54:52 -0000 TmFpbWluZyAtDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgd2hhdCBUb20gaXMgcmVmZXJyaW5nIHRvIGlzIHRoaXMgdGV4 dCBmcm9tIFJGQyA1MDI5Og0KDQoiIFRoaXMgc3ViLVRMViBpcyBPUFRJT05BTCBhbmQgTVVTVCBh 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working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2018 19:58:53 -0000 TGVzLA0KDQpPaywgd2lsbCDigJhpZ25vcmXigJk6LSkgdGhhbmtzLg0KDQotIE5haW1pbmcNCg0K PiBPbiBKYW4gNywgMjAxOCwgYXQgNjo1NCBBTSwgTGVzIEdpbnNiZXJnIChnaW5zYmVyZykgPGdp bnNiZXJnQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBOYWltaW5nIC0NCj4gDQo+IEkgdGhpbmsg d2hhdCBUb20gaXMgcmVmZXJyaW5nIHRvIGlzIHRoaXMgdGV4dCBmcm9tIFJGQyA1MDI5Og0KPiAN Cj4gIiBUaGlzIHN1Yi1UTFYgaXMgT1BUSU9OQUwgYW5kIE1VU1QgYXBwZWFyIGF0IG1vc3Qgb25j ZSBmb3IgYSBzaW5nbGUgSVMNCj4gICBuZWlnaGJvci4gIElmIGEgcmVjZWl2ZWQgTGluayBTdGF0 ZSBQYWNrZXQgKExTUCkgY29udGFpbnMgbW9yZSB0aGFuDQo+ICAgb25lIExpbmstQXR0cmlidXRl IFN1Yi1UTFYsIGFuIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIFNIT1VMRCBkZWNpZGUgdG8NCj4gICBjb25zaWRl ciBvbmx5IHRoZSBmaXJzdCBlbmNvdW50ZXJlZCBpbnN0YW5jZS4iDQo+IA0KPiBJbiB0aGUgY2Fz ZSBvZiB0aGUgUmV2ZXJzZSBNZXRyaWMgVExWLCBzaW5jZSBpdCBpcyBvbmx5IGFsbG93ZWQgaW4g aGVsbG9zLCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBlYXN5IHRvIHNwZWNpZnkgYSBzaW1pbGFyIGJlaGF2aW9yLg0K 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YWltaW5nIFNoZW4gKG5haW1pbmcpIg0KPj4+PiA8bmFpbWluZ0BjaXNjby5jb208bWFpbHRvOm5h aW1pbmdAY2lzY28uY29tPj4NCj4+Pj4+IA0KPj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4+PiANCj4+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gDQo+ PiANCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ PiBJc2lzLXdnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gSXNpcy13Z0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pc2lzLXdnDQoNCg== From nobody Sun Jan 7 22:46:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CF2F127241 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 22:46:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J3Q9J_iBl6KD for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 22:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAF0312711E for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2018 22:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.230]) by resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id YRC7eaEHSrsbLYRCBeWA87; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 06:46:07 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2602:306:35a4:2190:68b4:6f9d:35f6:891c] ([IPv6:2602:306:35a4:2190:68b4:6f9d:35f6:891c]) by resomta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id YRBwe3hvKWQ7ZYRC2eAnl5; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 06:46:05 +0000 From: tony.li@tony.li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6AE5822C-4884-482C-B3D2-D2931E0866D2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <61A9596C-8561-4AC0-868A-53BCEB6498F7@tony.li> References: <151539387793.11360.15792671551913855553.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: dcrouting@ietf.org, isis-wg@ietf.org Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 22:45:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfM4T2xBwRrXKCugo0Y+hkoItmDKUhcKbc9FAjwM//+CTojDWRRcV4R1rFdyUJy7u8auBa2joFLH5M7cGqhxDFvtvZDDj0R+0a8eQJj8twIZwGxdOpUwV jtoZrtFz6/pRKm8lfyp7AbL3o2JTSVLgArwsZ+4L+jnQdQ9zagy8m4zFC9qrBAtCdNm/8ecZ9iWvimMXpmmMi99KJTiVGEQecgA= Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2018 06:46:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6AE5822C-4884-482C-B3D2-D2931E0866D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 =09 FYI=E2=80=A6 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt > Date: January 7, 2018 at 10:44:37 PM PST > To: "Tony Li" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis > Revision: 00 > Title: Dynamic Flooding for IS-IS > Document date: 2018-01-07 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 8 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt= > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis/ > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00 > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can > result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead > associated with flooding. This can be addressed by decreasing the > flooding topology so that it is less dense. >=20 > This document discusses extensions to the IS-IS routing protocol to > support a solution to flooding in dense subgraphs. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_6AE5822C-4884-482C-B3D2-D2931E0866D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 =
FYI=E2=80=A6


Begin forwarded message:

Subject: = New Version = Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt
Date: = January 7, 2018 at 10:44:37 PM = PST
To: = "Tony Li" <tony.li@tony.li>

A new version of I-D, = draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the
IETF = repository.

Name: = draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis
Revision: 00
Title:= = Dynamic Flooding for IS-IS
Document date: = 2018-01-07
Group: Individual Submission
Pages:= = 8
URL: =            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-= isis-00.txt
Status: =         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis= /
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-isis-00
Htmlized:       
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding= -isis-00


Abstract:
  Routing with link state protocols in dense = network topologies can
  result in sub-optimal = convergence times due to the overhead
=   associated with flooding.  This can be addressed by = decreasing the
  flooding topology so that it = is less dense.

  This document = discusses extensions to the IS-IS routing protocol to
=   support a solution to flooding in dense subgraphs.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF = Secretariat


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(ginsberg)" To: Xuxiaohu , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Christian Hopps , "isis-wg@ietf.org" CC: "isis-ads@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 Thread-Index: AQHTeW0yt4SjFYWr8keDb9AE3mXNFKNMYa+AgABFv5CAANRNAIAcP0Aw Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:13:06 +0000 Message-ID: <626419ae2ef74f8891e3d22b4bcd115c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <87ind1pzn8.fsf@chopps.org> <3406a4622ee74862bd7be4477cc0bd5a@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <3f896bcf14014858bbeff810854b627d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A6A21@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A6A21@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.100.185] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 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Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68138124D68; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:09:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151553939740.21563.17769432431701927209@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 15:09:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 23:09:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : IS-IS Routing with Reverse Metric Authors : Naiming Shen Shane Amante Mikael Abrahamsson Filename : draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2018-01-09 Abstract: This document describes the mechanism to allow IS-IS routing to quickly and accurately shift traffic away from either a point-to- point or multi-access LAN interface by signaling to an adjacent IS-IS neighbor with the metric towards itself during network maintenance or other operational events. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jan 9 15:14:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C8812D838 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:14:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8ysFDuoHUmC for ; 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d="scan'208";a="330865560" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jan 2018 23:14:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (xch-rcd-009.cisco.com [173.37.102.19]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w09NEiAN015126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Jan 2018 23:14:44 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:14:43 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com ([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 9 Jan 2018 17:14:43 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: "isis-wg@ietf.org list" CC: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Christian Hopps , "t.petch" , Alexander Okonnikov , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08.txt Thread-Index: AQHTiZ8AQ+4SuyNbD0mVwKzYNGl2XaNskJkA Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 23:14:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151553939740.21563.17769432431701927209@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151553939740.21563.17769432431701927209@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.172.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <852C6D9F7EAC7B40A61FABE0F86460BE@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 23:14:48 -0000 Hi, thanks for all the comments. the new version is updated. please review and comment. thanks. - Naiming > On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:09 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : IS-IS Routing with Reverse Metric > Authors : Naiming Shen > Shane Amante > Mikael Abrahamsson > Filename : draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2018-01-09 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the mechanism to allow IS-IS routing to > quickly and accurately shift traffic away from either a point-to- > point or multi-access LAN interface by signaling to an adjacent IS-IS > neighbor with the metric towards itself during network maintenance or > other operational events. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-08 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Wed Jan 10 10:29:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietf.org Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AA412D833; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:29:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:29:20 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:29:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-01-10 Abstract: This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack is supportable in a given network. This document only defines one type of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines an encoding which can support other MSD types. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jan 10 10:45:03 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C1A124BAC; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:45:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pj_cw_A1YWXr; 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([173.36.7.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0600 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Xuxiaohu , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , Christian Hopps , "isis-wg@ietf.org" CC: "isis-ads@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc.authors@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 Thread-Index: AQHTeW0yt4SjFYWr8keDb9AE3mXNFKNMYa+AgABFv5CAANRNAIAcP0AwgAPXMFA= Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:44:56 +0000 Message-ID: <61f6082bd0244856b8d558c2f4dc684f@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> References: <87ind1pzn8.fsf@chopps.org> <3406a4622ee74862bd7be4477cc0bd5a@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <3f896bcf14014858bbeff810854b627d@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE304A6A21@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <626419ae2ef74f8891e3d22b4bcd115c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <626419ae2ef74f8891e3d22b4bcd115c@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyteQt0OWCCAMRHyKDY+IDMswdDOL595PfF8X+d8NF3aNMKE8wRp2 5QM8C7PYRLjlAxSuYHMCbXHLpg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot78QCpAgWLyj5gwTxFkt7gbi4Ot1yuahkZRuI4U84PYOnqT+d87on/kVLxy6H87wsFLlQrzA== X-Received: by 10.129.46.138 with SMTP id u132mr5375294ywu.406.1515609958661; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:45:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [135.227.239.108] ([66.201.62.254]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j71sm671619ywg.38.2018.01.10.10.45.57 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:45:58 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:45:56 -0800 From: Jeff Tantsura To: "isis-wg@ietf.org" Message-ID: <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt References: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:46:02 -0000 Hi, The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments received and make the draft more generic. The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to whether the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still missing. Many thanks! Cheers, Jeff On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-01-10 Abstract: This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multiple types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack is supportable in a given network. This document only defines one type of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines an encoding which can support other MSD types. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Wed Jan 10 17:02:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01DE12422F for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YpbxO3G6aNMe for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x22f.google.com (mail-qk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76476120454 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id p13so2277764qke.4 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=LiWJ6AAAAQJXNITsqTR6Rt9rj4C8zAaY26mpFlFHcLA=; b=gvOdqYcKHUr/KNFDP75nOjLNq24wdsqvMJh8ndQkeQPMCi8/eptQApDyVfE8F2h8uI cbFtb3IuWEyK7OtQmr/X7AA+tgiaHb7czMKrX8gm+jOVusuDKrP3InTAeBAYTrzZFpGs GUUfIlOrHcBsfvovEiU/iO3l2Jf0KpiwvcOD1Q+XySAppkbqFw6Zi2ywAFg0i2FcW4Ti IR+cg53Si2ZeTfL4iSroqs5VgmfCUpbRYWYBHvKYFtx4ssLi1FWd3mbyN/+el7xc1S3l de4zQOftHJfhos2w+WmUiCM13cLWRO/Nxz1qkR1b0FNPNAMjd7z8kN6o8jmO8rhLMGSt yOyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LiWJ6AAAAQJXNITsqTR6Rt9rj4C8zAaY26mpFlFHcLA=; b=N200J6pZotNYaVmbgo0LWfXwSwyjvjrFPDSP+8oaGWpIvRk0m6UNDWWkGHbagppWML hSMExpQnt803Zau7jIBjUC5WDBaDXUX0RzTVL9V129VbtX8BOidhqlyqw4jbGFsfMneJ f9EssfUjOT/vzUYUmyQ2o8wqiLqk2aMgiFdgi7fgbRfV3gktaXfqbKzme6Ka8JKW0UUR 8dncSk3p7R0q6IsMb79YZgm5C+k+0oLi1TNfonKVfk4DRUR87x/axohNRGkqLgYFDkjW 4Nrm+lCDiWNeGv7DtFgQzPvmTULXDsCTIpiunvCbLkJ8y3pb36yR4JnRpQqjIl7GCY08 +lDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytfggTetpFaEMFe4gr+fUUtWoXq79yxRyT+xahF5VnpLsd6pYY/3 wft8swjzn+hKGj8awvhbBoW1kMmm/0sNCwTl868= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouJL4mu8UdwCdv7xArgfgQHFM2ttKNtB3hARccz/cdg/bcDHmPvGPRW2zM1iEo5oE8QTNWcizfoVXzjffQT83A= X-Received: by 10.55.89.67 with SMTP id n64mr15663106qkb.178.1515632566474; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: ghanwani@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.6.132 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> References: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> From: Anoop Ghanwani Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:02:46 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: X42y4xGBzOrb8IKVs2d13LyTvKs Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114c9760bc1d52056275b48a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 01:02:50 -0000 --001a114c9760bc1d52056275b48a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Should it be considered a misconfiguration if, for a certain MSD type, the Node MSD is > any of the Link MSDs? Thanks, Anoop On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi, > > The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments > received and make the draft more generic. > The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to > whether the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still > missing. > > Many thanks! > > Cheers, > Jeff > > On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of > internet-drafts@ietf.org" internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. > > Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS > Authors : Jeff Tantsura > Uma Chunduri > Sam Aldrin > Les Ginsberg > Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2018-01-10 > > Abstract: > This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise > multiple > types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link > granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized > controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack is > supportable in a given network. This document only defines one type > of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines an encoding which > can > support other MSD types. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis- > segment-routing-msd-09 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment- > routing-msd-09 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > --001a114c9760bc1d52056275b48a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Should it be considered a misconfiguration if, for a certa= in MSD type, the Node MSD is > any of the Link MSDs?

= Thanks,
Anoop

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Jeff Tantsura <j= efftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments receiv= ed and make the draft more generic.
The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to whet= her the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still miss= ing.

Many thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff

On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-w= g-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org" <isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-D= rafts directories.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of= the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Jeff Tantsura
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Uma Chunduri
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sam Aldrin
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les Ginsberg
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 9
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2018-01-10

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router = to advertise multiple
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at = node and/or link
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0granularity.=C2=A0 Such advertisements allow ent= ities (e.g., centralized
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0controllers) to determine whether a particular S= ID stack is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0supportable in a given network.=C2=A0 This docum= ent only defines one type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines = an encoding which can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support other MSD types.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There are also htmlized versions available at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-0= 9

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A diff from the previous version is available at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.= ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the tim= e of submission
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until the htmlized version and diff are available at
tools.ietf.= org.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Isis-wg mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Isis-wg@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/isis-wg



_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg<= br>

--001a114c9760bc1d52056275b48a-- From nobody Wed Jan 10 18:18:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EBB12E057 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:18:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r9xMDPRwbZyf for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDF9912711D for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:18:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3016; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1515637131; x=1516846731; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=SS9kWoNGFo5nkewC+NRzIfmw4S87ChvpnhYf2WMLfdY=; b=mnxv9vOGjlp6aqQ6svIwjfktcfr0+CoOtCq4n6MHmwgfBX+ay3/IF5Ld EB4EQZtD001fYIof35CTwpkL3z2trQe6MfweexKxDAvQ+qRRrWkGJoXk6 WpZ8a+5JwAGT9wjJywDX2lVgf2gNG6MXEFJDXMe5dBXaZqsYLl28DyWJo 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AoAQAvyFZa/5BdJa1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYNBZnQnB44kjl2CApcwghYKGA2FFgKERj8YAQEBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FIwEBAQEDAQE4NBcEAgEIEQQBAR8JBycLFAkIAgQBEgiKKxCyOIpAAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYQgghWBV4Fogy+DLwEBAgEBF4F8hVYFmXKJcgKICY0?= =?us-ascii?q?xgiFnhTWLWoplglaJOQIRGQGBOwEfOSWBK28VGSSCKgmCSxyBZ3iKSYEXAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,342,1511827200"; d="scan'208";a="341633863" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jan 2018 02:18:50 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (xch-rcd-006.cisco.com [173.37.102.16]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w0B2Ioch002240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:18:50 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 20:18:50 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 20:18:50 -0600 From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" To: Jeff Tantsura , "isis-wg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt Thread-Index: AQHTikNJujgfKYey6EiH6FdSZ5NDsKNt8CAg Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:18:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.83.254] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:18:54 -0000 Thanks Jeff/Authors for this significant update. It has addressed all of my= comments fully. Thanks, Ketan -----Original Message----- From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura Sent: 11 January 2018 00:16 To: isis-wg@ietf.org Subject: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.t= xt Hi, The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments receiv= ed and make the draft more generic. The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to whet= her the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still miss= ing. Many thanks! Cheers, Jeff On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@i= etf.org" w= rote: =20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. =20 Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS Authors : Jeff Tantsura Uma Chunduri Sam Aldrin Les Ginsberg Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2018-01-10 =20 Abstract: This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multipl= e types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack is supportable in a given network. This document only defines one type of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines an encoding which ca= n support other MSD types. =20 =20 The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ =20 There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m= sd-09 =20 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd= -09 =20 =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. =20 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ =20 _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg =20 _______________________________________________ Isis-wg mailing list Isis-wg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Thu Jan 11 01:20:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BA012E04A; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 01:20:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.54 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.54 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT=1.449, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y_luTF5uSx8E; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 507C512E041; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from tops.chopps.org (47-50-69-38.static.klmz.mi.charter.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 178F560944; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:20:01 +0000 (UTC) References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> User-agent: mu4e 0.9.18; emacs 25.3.1 From: Christian Hopps To: "Naiming Shen \(naiming\)" Cc: "Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)" , "isis-wg\@ietf.org" , "isis-ads\@ietf.org" In-reply-to: <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 04:19:59 -0500 Message-ID: <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:20:11 -0000 Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: > Hi, > > Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we’ll probably skip this > capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily. I suspect > there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of this. Hi Naiming, Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just published a new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart? Thanks, Chris. > Regards, > - Naiming > > On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > wrote: > > > > From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >; isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >; isis-ads@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > Les, > > > 31 дек. 2017 г., в 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > написал(а): > > Alex - > > From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >; isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >; isis-ads@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > Les, > > > > 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > написал(а): > > Alex - > > From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >; isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >; isis-ads@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > Hi Les, > > Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes sense again. In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in latter one it is possible. This is also described in RFC 5305: > > " If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - 1), this > link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. This > will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building > the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is > available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing." > > [Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - 1) is in the context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise (2^24-1) is because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then this would already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration – and it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. > Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link while preserve ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it - IGP-LDP sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be excluded from IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be done on LAN. > > > [Les:] My point is – if you do not want the link to be used at all – even if only while waiting for LDP sync to complete – then you simply don’t advertise the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don’t advertise the adjacency to the DIS – so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and no traffic flows to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what the neighbor/DIS is advertising. > My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, but still use it in other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2^24-1. If adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all topologies, not only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric functionality as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately. > > [Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and should not be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has well defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be limited to those cases. > > The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always be the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each node utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers based on its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I want to embrace. > > Les > > > > Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always possible or is not desired. > > [Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from your example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, you were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. > If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link at all, then you need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 – in which case the proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help. > > If you think you have a different example that justifies your proposal I would be happy to review it – but the one you have come up with isn’t compelling. > Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. > [Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas – in which case your example does not apply. > Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring physical topology. > > > There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 routers between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide alternative L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). > > Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer to R3 than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is more optimal from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 via R1. It is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we have deal with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S-PEs or Hub PEs, respectively. > > [Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The topic here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for a node to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1). > Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies your proposal I would like to hear it – but please stay focused on this use case. > > Les > > > > Les > > Thank you. > > > > > 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > написал(а): > > I strongly disagree with this proposed change. > > If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply don’t advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases. > This is why the draft states > > “a receiver of a > Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either > the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in > the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)” > > There is no use case for (2^24 - 1). > > As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his proposal, there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 link. That is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configure a larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for L1 traffic when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use Reverse-Metric to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension. > > Les > > > From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Naiming Shen (naiming) > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM > To: Alexander Okonnikov > > Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >; isis-ads@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > Hi Alex, > > Ok. We’ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the ‘reverse-metric TLV’, to indicate > the originator requesting the inbound direction of the link not to be used and the > metric should be raised by the peer to (2^24 - 1) regardless the value of the ‘offset metric’ > value in the TLV. > > thanks. > - Naiming > > On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > wrote: > > Hi Naiming, > > > > > > 29 дек. 2017 г., в 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming) > написал(а): > > > Hi Alexander, > > Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > wrote: > > Hi authors, > > > I have some comments below regarding the draft: > > > 1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." Per -07 only one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implicit signaling of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero value. Text in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as well. > > NS> will fix. > > > > > > > 2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link is used as a link of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that you meant regular link rather than TE link. > > 3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes that overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. it cannot be excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless originator of the TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (RFC 5029) AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be done by allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2^24-1 which would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from topology completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is between 0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same rules for TE metric. > > > NS> I don’t see there is much difference between not used or last resort in the use cases we mentioned. > also, this metric value is an ‘offset metric’ being added on top of the existing local metric. It would not > be always feasible to make the reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations. > > One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only. R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3 was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link. But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2^24-1), they would use inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com pleted. > > An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as last resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138. > > > > > > > > > > > 4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator uses narrow metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving reverse metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is "narrow" max-metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes that all ISs use the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same time is not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse Metric TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to specify new flag to mark type of the reverse metric. > > > NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or narrow. It can not be fixed. The > document is trying to be complete to mention the ‘narrow’ case. > > > > > > > 5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use min(63, (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS Reachability TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not obligated to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition to Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for "wide-only" mode. > > NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be simple. Not to mix them. > > > > > > > 6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE metric offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must modify its TE metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE metric part then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For example, originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP synchronization procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties (metric in this case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric is left intact”. > > NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is not received, the TE properties will not change > by receiving this ‘reverse-metric’ TLV. > > > > > > > 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by DIS. Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric TLV it should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extended IS Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there. > > NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes. Will try to add some words to that. > > thanks. > - Naiming > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет: > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline, > > > > > > On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > wrote: > > Hello, > > I support this draft, however would like the following aspect/scenario clarified. > > Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link initiate the reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos concurrently). How are implementations supposed to handle this? Normally the choice of metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (which need not just be "overload") on the local router which requires the neighbour to use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbours initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification provide a deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers simply accept the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism? > When you say if both sides initiated this ‘reverse metric’, you implied > there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft. > > The value of this ‘metric offset’ (or whatever will be called) of this TLV, > is just a number. The draft does not say this number is equal to the > configured ‘metric’ value plus the received ‘reverse metrc’ value, that > would be non-deterministic and both sides would keep going up until it’s > overloaded:-) > > Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a ‘reverse metric’ over the link, > either in link-overloading case, or other cases. It’s a static number, it does not > depend on the other side sending a ‘reverse metric’ or not. This both sides > sending a ‘reverse-metric’ over a link is equivalent to an operator provisions > new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the link at > the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. > > thanks. > - Naiming > > > > > > Following options come to my mind: > a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually apply the reverse metric procedure > b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) > c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled but the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws their TLV. > > Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where this is not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify this behaviour to ensure interoperability. > > Thanks, > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Hopps > Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 > To: isis-wg@ietf.org > Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org > Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ > > which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100. > > Thanks, > Chris. > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Thu Jan 11 09:58:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CAB112EC16 for ; 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Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:57:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: ghanwani@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.6.132 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:57:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151560895996.18397.220535124500372029@ietfa.amsl.com> <9744D684-6848-4C94-B892-71C81C097CB3@gmail.com> From: Anoop Ghanwani Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:57:57 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: kNemJgNuUnNOzK1Xr7_Qeb2s0d4 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141a87c53eaba056283e35a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 17:58:01 -0000 --001a1141a87c53eaba056283e35a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Oops, I meant "if the Node MSD is < any of the Link MSDs." So the question is: Should it be considered a misconfiguration if, for a certain MSD type, the Node MSD is < any of the corresponding Link MSDs? If so, how should that be handled? Anoop On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Anoop Ghanwani wrote: > Should it be considered a misconfiguration if, for a certain MSD type, the > Node MSD is > any of the Link MSDs? > > Thanks, > Anoop > > On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Jeff Tantsura > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments >> received and make the draft more generic. >> The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to >> whether the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still >> missing. >> >> Many thanks! >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff >> >> On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of >> internet-drafts@ietf.org" > internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote: >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the >> IETF. >> >> Title : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using >> IS-IS >> Authors : Jeff Tantsura >> Uma Chunduri >> Sam Aldrin >> Les Ginsberg >> Filename : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt >> Pages : 9 >> Date : 2018-01-10 >> >> Abstract: >> This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise >> multiple >> types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link >> granularity. Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized >> controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack is >> supportable in a given network. This document only defines one >> type >> of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines an encoding which >> can >> support other MSD types. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segmen >> t-routing-msd-09 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-ro >> uting-msd-09 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >> > > --001a1141a87c53eaba056283e35a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops, I meant "if the Node MSD is < any of the Lin= k MSDs."=C2=A0 So the question is:

Should it be considered a misconfiguratio= n if, for a certain=C2=A0MSD=C2=A0type, the Node=C2=A0MSD=C2=A0is < any of the corresponding Link MSDs?

If so, ho= w should that be handled?
<= span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">
Anoop


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 = at 5:02 PM, Anoop Ghanwani <anoop@alumni.duke.edu> wrote= :
Should it be considere= d a misconfiguration if, for a certain MSD type, the Node MSD is > any o= f the Link MSDs?

Thanks,
Anoop

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Jeff Tantsura <= jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

The draft has been significantly updated to address all the comments receiv= ed and make the draft more generic.
The authors would appreciate your comments, as well as a quick note to whet= her the comments posted have been addressed, and if not, what is still miss= ing.

Many thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff

On 1/10/18, 10:29, "isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org"= <isis-wg-= bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-D= rafts directories.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of= the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Jeff Tantsura
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Uma Chunduri
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sam Aldrin
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les Ginsberg
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-isis-segment-routing-msd-09.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 9
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2018-01-10

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router = to advertise multiple
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at = node and/or link
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0granularity.=C2=A0 Such advertisements allow ent= ities (e.g., centralized
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0controllers) to determine whether a particular S= ID stack is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0supportable in a given network.=C2=A0 This docum= ent only defines one type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of MSD (maximum label imposition) - but defines = an encoding which can
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support other MSD types.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There are also htmlized versions available at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.o= rg/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://da= tatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-0= 9

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A diff from the previous version is available at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.= ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the tim= e of submission
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 until the htmlized version and diff are available at
tools.ietf.= org.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Isis-wg mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Isis-wg= @ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/isis-wg



_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg<= br>


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I will review this doc and then determine how to upda= te the ISIS-ELC and OSPF-ELC drafts according. Xiaohu=20 =B7=A2=D7=D4=CE=D2=B5=C4 iPhone > =D4=DA 2018=C4=EA1=D4=C211=C8=D5=A3=AC02:44=A3=ACLes Ginsberg (ginsberg) <= ginsberg@cisco.com> =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA >=20 > Xiaohu - >=20 > V9 of the MSD draft has been posted with the promised changes. > Please review. I hope this leads to you revising https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc/ to make use of the MSD sub-TLV to advertis= e RLD. >=20 > Les >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 12:13 AM >> To: Xuxiaohu ; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >> ; Christian Hopps ; isis- >> wg@ietf.org >> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m= sd-07 >>=20 >> Xiaohu - >>=20 >> Work on a revision to the MSD draft to make the names and text consistent= >> with the goal that multiple types of "MSD" will be advertised using the s= ame >> sub-TLV is in progress. Once authors have agreed on the changes you will s= ee >> a new revision. >>=20 >> Can I assume that once this is done you are open to changing the mpls-elc= >> drafts to use the more generic encoding for advertising RLD? >>=20 >> I think this is important to make judicious use of sub-TLV code points. >> As written, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-03 requi= res a >> distinct sub-TLV from the set of sub-TLVs defined for TLV 242 to advertis= e >> RLD. If this model were to be applied for other types of "MSD", I can for= esee >> consumption of a significant number of sub-TLV codepoints just for all th= e >> flavors of "MSD". This is one reason we defined the generic MSD sub-TLV >> format in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd. A single sub-TLV can be us= ed >> to advertise as many different MSD types as necessary. >>=20 >> There are also other benefits: >>=20 >> An IGP agnostic registry is defined to assign MSD types. This means the s= ame >> type value can be used in OSPF, IS-IS, and in BGP-LS. >>=20 >> In IS-IS there is a small efficiency gain in that we do not have to adver= tise a >> length for each MSD type. >>=20 >> I look forward to feedback from you once the new revision of the MSD draf= t >> is published. >>=20 >> Thanx. >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Xuxiaohu [mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:40 PM >>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; Ketan Talaulikar >>> (ketant) ; Christian Hopps ; >>> isis- wg@ietf.org >>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>> Subject: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd- >>> 07 >>>=20 >>> Hi Les, >>>=20 >>> If I understand it correctly, the MSD concept was originated from >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-segment-routing-11#page-7) >>> as described below: >>>=20 >>> "The "Maximum SID Depth" (1 >>> octet) field (MSD) specifies the maximum number of SIDs (MPLS label >>> stack depth in the context of this document) that a PCC is capable of >>> imposing on a packet." >>>=20 >>> Before considering expanding the semantics of the MSD concept as >>> defined in the above PCE-SR draft, how about first considering >>> renaming the capability of imposing the maximum number of labels so as >>> to eliminate possible confusions, e.g., Writable Label-stack Depth >>> (WLD) as opposed to the Readable Label-stack Depth (RLD) as defined in >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc) and >>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc) ? >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>>=20 >>>> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- >>>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1= =ED Les Ginsberg >>>> (ginsberg) >>>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2017=C4=EA12=D4=C221=C8=D5 4:02 >>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Christian Hopps; isis-wg= @ietf.org >>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: isis-ads@ietf.org; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ie= tf.org >>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>=20 >>>> Ketan - >>>>=20 >>>> Thanx for the comments. >>>> I think we do want to allow MSD support for values other than >>>> imposition values. We will revise the text so we are not restricted >>>> to only >>> imposition cases. >>>>=20 >>>> Les >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:51 AM >>>>> To: Christian Hopps ; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I support this document and would like to ask the authors and WG >>>>> to consider if we can expand the scope of this draft to not just >>>>> "imposition" of the SID stack but also other similar limits >>>>> related to other >>>> actions (e.g. >>>>> reading, processing, etc.). With Segment Routing, we are coming >>>>> across various actions that nodes need to do with the SID stack >>>>> for different purposes and IMHO it would be useful to extend the >>>>> MSD ability to cover those as they arise. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Ketan >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>> Christian Hopps >>>>> Sent: 20 December 2017 14:03 >>>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org; >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-07 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-m >>>>> sd >>>>> / >>>>>=20 >>>>> which will last an extended 4 weeks to allow for year-end PTO patterns= . >>>>>=20 >>>>> An IPR statement exists: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&id=3Ddraft-iet= >>>>> f- >>>>> is >>>>> is- >>>>> segment-routing-msd >>>>>=20 >>>>> Authors please reply to the list indicating whether you are aware >>>>> of any >>>>> *new* IPR. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chris. >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Thu Jan 11 12:20:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9731612EC3D; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kvekOxob0XZO; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E6A12E034; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:20:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=23836; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1515702026; x=1516911626; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=+AugXCu9XiWqy8CP3n7BFO2j0ZDon57t/7TxplFP8E0=; b=eV5kErpATbdlKT5zi3l5HcS9pLegKeSxtdIxOW5F6kZB2WAoY9/leyl8 lYLsZJuVvCzjQ5faGCiKV+xrsjTuQBKJtVHOserHM65n/0XP5u9P91tkL udqNASFoM/L86s1saWHaip4lLGQqpHZsqUcqaOxJHv6n76z2j8HI/3/RZ 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,346,1511827200"; d="scan'208";a="342042821" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jan 2018 20:20:26 +0000 Received: from [10.156.165.76] ([10.156.165.76]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w0BKK8qw001361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:20:18 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" In-Reply-To: <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:20:06 -0800 Cc: Les Ginsberg , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "isis-ads@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> To: Christian Hopps X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:20:30 -0000 Hi Chris, > On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll probably = skip this >> capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily. I = suspect >> there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of this. >=20 > Hi Naiming, >=20 > Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not > add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just published a > new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) >=20 > Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart? Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We also removed the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80= =9D of sub-TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP. This change is due to several factors: - the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name = =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D, which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D = really meant, and what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This = version 7 borrowed this from OSPF, and now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D - More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2= =80=9D bit in LSP, the backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other =E2=80=9Creverse-metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. = So, if we have to use this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define = the router =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to advertise this, and synchronize among = area/domain, which we really don=E2=80=99t want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' - Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same effect = of the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit, since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out the link as =E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean = time keep the same backwards compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean = solution. - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we have seen the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments discussion during the last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and = mentioned on the list we wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decided that is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of = doing that is not to handle the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topology to take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7. thanks. - Naiming >=20 > Thanks, > Chris. >=20 >> Regards, >> - Naiming >>=20 >> On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > >> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) = >; = isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = >; = isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>=20 >> Les, >>=20 >>=20 >> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): >>=20 >> Alex - >>=20 >> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > >> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) = >; = isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = >; = isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>=20 >> Les, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): >>=20 >> Alex - >>=20 >> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) = > >> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) = >; = isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = >; = isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>=20 >> Hi Les, >>=20 >> Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes sense = again. In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in = latter one it is possible. This is also described in RFC 5305: >>=20 >> " If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - 1), = this >> link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. This >> will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building >> the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is >> available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing." >>=20 >> [Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - 1) is in = the context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise = (2^24-1) is because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes = then this would already have been done by the neighbor as part of their = configuration =E2=80=93 and it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. >> Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link while = preserve ability to use link for other transport. An example when we = need it - IGP-LDP sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then = link will be excluded from IP topology permanently. Also, it is not = clear for me how it could be done on LAN. >>=20 >>=20 >> [Les:] My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to be used = at all =E2=80=93 even if only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80= =93 then you simply don=E2=80=99t advertise the adjacency. In the case = of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t advertise the adjacency to the DIS =E2=80=93 = so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and no traffic flows = to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what = the neighbor/DIS is advertising. >> My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, but = still use it in other topologies. This could be done by advertising = metric 2^24-1. If adjacency is not advertised, then that link is = excluded from all topologies, not only from IP. In general my proposal = is to make reverse-metric functionality as flexible as possible and to = don't restrict it deliberately. >>=20 >> [Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and = should not be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the = configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has = well defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be = limited to those cases. >>=20 >> The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by = existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always = be the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each = node utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers = based on its local view of the current state of convergence is not = something I want to embrace. >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always = possible or is not desired. >>=20 >> [Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from = your example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 = routers, you were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. >> If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link at all, = then you need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80= =93 in which case the proposed change you are suggesting for = reverse-metric would not help. >>=20 >> If you think you have a different example that justifies your = proposal I would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have = come up with isn=E2=80=99t compelling. >> Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. >> [Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80=93 in = which case your example does not apply. >> Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring physical = topology. >>=20 >>=20 >> There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But = sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 routers = between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide = alternative L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). >>=20 >> Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has = reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer = to R3 than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is = more optimal from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather = than to R2 via R1. It is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes = sensitive when we have deal with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or = H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S-PEs or Hub PEs, respectively. >>=20 >> [Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The = topic here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case = for a node to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1). >> Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies your = proposal I would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on = this use case. >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >> Thank you. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): >>=20 >> I strongly disagree with this proposed change. >>=20 >> If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply = don=E2=80=99t advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN = cases. >> This is why the draft states >>=20 >> =E2=80=9Ca receiver of a >> Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either >> the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in >> the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> There is no use case for (2^24 - 1). >>=20 >> As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his = proposal, there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the = L1 link. That is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers = but configure a larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will = only be used for L1 traffic when there is no viable L1 only link. There = is no need to use Reverse-Metric to do so and I believe this is an = inappropriate use of this extension. >>=20 >> Les >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Naiming = Shen (naiming) >> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM >> To: Alexander Okonnikov = > >> Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps = >; = isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Alex, >>=20 >> Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the = =E2=80=98reverse-metric TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate >> the originator requesting the inbound direction of the link not to be = used and the >> metric should be raised by the peer to (2^24 - 1) regardless the = value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 >> value in the TLV. >>=20 >> thanks. >> - Naiming >>=20 >> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Naiming, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen = (naiming) > = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Alexander, >>=20 >> Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi authors, >>=20 >>=20 >> I have some comments below regarding the draft: >>=20 >>=20 >> 1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." Per = -07 only one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 = (implicit signaling of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" = field non-zero value. Text in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag = S is to be removed as well. >>=20 >> NS> will fix. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link is = used as a link of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that = you meant regular link rather than TE link. >>=20 >> 3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes = that overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. = it cannot be excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless = originator of the TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link = Attributes Sub-TLV (RFC 5029) AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As = alternative it could be done by allowing for originator to specify = reverse metric special value 2^24-1 which would indicate to receivers = that the link is to be excluded from topology completely rather than = used as last resort. If reverse metric value is between 0 - 2^24-2 then = link could be used in path calculation. The same rules for TE metric. >>=20 >>=20 >> NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not used or = last resort in the use cases we mentioned. >> also, this metric value is an =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 being = added on top of the existing local metric. It would not >> be always feasible to make the reverse-metric off by one to mean two = completely different operations. >>=20 >> One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for = IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are = three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only. R1 = and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is connected = to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3 was broken and = now is being restored. While adjacency has not been established on = failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's loopback. Once = adjacency has been established, but LDP session has not yet, R3 and R2 = maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link. But now R2 and R3 have = routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though with max metric. Because = L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace inter-area routes to each = other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP LSPs are blackholed. On the = other hand, if two routers mark corresponding link as unusable (with = metric 2^24-1), they would use inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will = be com > pleted. >>=20 >> An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as = last resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator uses = narrow metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on = receiving reverse metric with such value receivers have no idea whether = this is "narrow" max-metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the = draft assumes that all ISs use the same type of metric, and using of two = metric types at the same time is not covered. May be it would be = appropriate to define two Reverse Metric TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and = Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to specify new flag to mark type of the = reverse metric. >>=20 >>=20 >> NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or = narrow. It can not be fixed. The >> document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow=E2=80=99= case. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use = min(63, (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If = DIS is configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS = Reachability TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case = DIS is not obligated to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode = LSP (in addition to Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured = for "wide-only" mode. >>=20 >> NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be = simple. Not to mix them. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE = metric offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must = modify its TE metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it = would be straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't = include TE metric part then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but = only IGP link. For example, originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as = part of IGP-LDP synchronization procedure (section 3.5). It is not = reason to impact TE properties (metric in this case) of the link. Hence, = originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV without TE metric Sub-TLV, = in order to signal that "TE metric is left intact=E2=80=9D. >>=20 >> NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is = not received, the TE properties will not change >> by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by = DIS. Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended = IS Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add = explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric = TLV it should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding = Extended IS Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present = there. >>=20 >> NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes. = Will try to add some words to that. >>=20 >> thanks. >> - Naiming >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >>=20 >> 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82= : >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Ketan, >>=20 >> thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) = > wrote: >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> I support this draft, however would like the following = aspect/scenario clarified. >>=20 >> Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link = initiate the reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their = hellos concurrently). How are implementations supposed to handle this? = Normally the choice of metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a = particular condition (which need not just be "overload") on the local = router which requires the neighbour to use shift to using the reverse = metric supplied. So when both neighbours initiate this process, it would = be good to have the specification provide a deterministic behaviour = since the reverse metric values provided may conflict in certain = "non-overload" conditions. If both routers simply accept the value = supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original = purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism? >> When you say if both sides initiated this =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80= =99, you implied >> there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft. >>=20 >> The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever will = be called) of this TLV, >> is just a number. The draft does not say this number is equal to the >> configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus the received = =E2=80=98reverse metrc=E2=80=99 value, that >> would be non-deterministic and both sides would keep going up until = it=E2=80=99s >> overloaded:-) >>=20 >> Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2=80=98reverse = metric=E2=80=99 over the link, >> either in link-overloading case, or other cases. It=E2=80=99s a = static number, it does not >> depend on the other side sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 = or not. This both sides >> sending a =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent = to an operator provisions >> new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the = link at >> the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. >>=20 >> thanks. >> - Naiming >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Following options come to my mind: >> a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually = apply the reverse metric procedure >> b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower = system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other withdraws = its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) >> c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset = specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled = but the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws = their TLV. >>=20 >> Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where = this is not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to = clarify this behaviour to ensure interoperability. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Ketan >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Christian Hopps >> Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 >> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org >> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>=20 >>=20 >> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>=20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ >>=20 >> which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Chris. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Thu Jan 11 12:45:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC3712EBB5; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:45:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit 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IElzaXMtd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOklzaXMtd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+ID4+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXNpcy13Zw0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+PiBJc2lz LXdnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+PiBJc2lzLXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ID4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXNpcy13Zw0KDQo= From nobody Mon Jan 15 08:14:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietf.org Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862C812E034; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 08:14:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151603287850.28389.12699304428676727667@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 08:14:38 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Isis-wg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang-03.txt X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:14:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IS-IS for IP Internets WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Model for IS-IS Segment Routing Authors : Stephane Litkowski Yinghzen Qu Pushpasis Sarkar Ing-Wher Chen Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang-03.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2018-01-15 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure and manage IS-IS Segment Routing ([I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-sr-yang-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jan 15 22:27:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990C9126C2F; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.301 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8XAGUNkvnV9; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com (mail-lf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C425E124D68; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id f3so15981442lfe.4; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version; bh=FcAYW2PDU532cfDDoP5uuMPw418Fo5WsfPpnFFgEUBk=; b=sHUxfERJxPuHp7UlIc7hfxhyCZihplxB4LsT1Oxx8wzzXeOgugiJp14XBGG/ikFfEb GWWpmdMDD6N8YrBGV2rYEkvJV6/8xcwo/hjYXll7/9JaFL0PAInOPDfW5qjFCto7BKCh qiF3x6fcb46TdTl4qXre2vUSt9RQBwTIKu76/cKZX9R1ZsmZq3Yt1vQrPjFHua3iPHs6 QW+Iw5gXISYckP9AgGIM/uzax/a+lNITMM26e+gGRp05PBn5KjZ6QpGo0Bbc4Lg2Xm9u BXuJl9uLdInLvA8aEI5RZdepuLbvarDcuuJywbvuw9Oj4a07sW/BHsPJmvOwmAKo2yf6 stPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version; bh=FcAYW2PDU532cfDDoP5uuMPw418Fo5WsfPpnFFgEUBk=; b=V+/Lbtg7R63IpGrjTS8nGcs9370CyZyAId1rIxBVrr+V15ou8pqeV7iG+IxDvhBteY TtzG3wKX+5AZlR/Dx70XL5SH0Oa9yLlHmj95vdf3wSP71swmhiYzycz2LRGaRuq8TuR4 vrRW2jB8jAGQa4Kz1AtYoI5XrIZYbn0S1+bbIOpBkHod8kB7Qo7ohoito+MwNoSh0948 EXDrE3MEMR2MP6AgDe3YFSvD+9XD4w/iIYgb2IRrWnWevO163yBJDyE9mFi8uDbRDikC 2A087AzhnRFO58EHemZTeLbkKVn2NloJHhMI7ZM3B0Xbf1CUnxPeNgY0mgu4dH0QIuXn Vpww== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKcKxxOqXgsqDeMiR+FB7JDnCAFfvcnVUFc4rN1luhVjZkeEcI8 zKKq/Oj0/tl6vD7W2KrumhM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovmxbctiQ6xe88uppiO7TRLM7U2enzqm52LTugZHsnBW7ZDjv0SAd2j5pTuI4fUKJs/xhX3og== X-Received: by 10.46.124.26 with SMTP id x26mr22902319ljc.36.1516084023731; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.44.36.196] ([213.87.131.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m25sm228619lfc.38.2018.01.15.22.27.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 15 Jan 2018 22:27:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:21:00 +0300 From: Alexander Okonnikov To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" , Christian Hopps , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?isis-wg=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?isis-ads=40ietf.org?=" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: e330d5b5-e049-4399-983e-b0cdcceccf0a@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5a5d9b13_66334873_d9f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 06:27:11 -0000 --5a5d9b13_66334873_d9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Naiming, Les, Chris, Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for IGP an= d TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to modify IG= P link properties while left TE link properties intact=3F U-bit set says = that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving IS. =46= rom CSP=46 perspective there is no much difference between TE metrics 2=5E= 24-2 and 2=5E24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98last resort=E2=80=99 = but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. =46or TE metric manipulation we = have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit. =46o= r making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2=5E24-1 = and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE met= ric 2=5E24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSP=46 perspective= ), reverse TE metric 2=5E24-1 could be specified as special value for thi= s like it is specified for IGP link. Thanks. Best regards, Alexander Okonnikov 11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= , =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB: > I agree with Naiming on these changes. > > Originally I was opposed to the use of max=5Fmetric-1 by reverse metric= as with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. But Na= iming has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit to be = effective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His proposal of = being able to optionally set max=5Fmetric-1 means that even routers who d= o not support reverse=5Fmetric will avoid the link in question simply bec= ause they will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of the= link. > > Allowing max=5Fmetric-1 means the link can be completely removed from t= he IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way. > While max=5Fmetric-1 is NOT defined as =22do not use=22 for the TE topo= logy, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SP=46 which consid= ers metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwards compa= tible way. > > I think this is a significant improvement. > > Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using the = new link attribute bit. > > Les > > > > -----Original Message----- > > =46rom: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM > > To: Christian Hopps > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; isis-wg=40ietf.or= g; isis- > > ads=40ietf.org > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-m= etric-07 > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps = wrote: > > > > > > > > > Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll prob= ably skip > > > > this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added eas= ily. > > > > I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on= top of > > this. > > > > > > Hi Naiming, > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would = not > > > add the 2=5E24-1 functionality=3F I'm asking b/c you also just publ= ished a > > > new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) > > > > > > Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart=3F= > > > > Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We a= lso removed > > the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D of sub-= TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP. > > This change is due to several factors: > > > > - the long discusion ongoing of OSP=46 mailing list of the name =E2=80= =9Coverload=E2=80=9D, > > which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D r= eally meant, and > > what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This version= 7 borrowed this from OSP=46, and > > now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CLink= Overload > > Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D > > > > - More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9Coverlo= ad=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, the > > backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other =E2=80= =9Creverse- > > metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, if we hav= e to use this > > =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define the rou= ter =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to > > advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really do= n=E2=80=99t > > want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' > > > > - Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same effec= t of the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit, > > since the neighbor can optionally set the (2=5E24-1) and take out the= link as > > =E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep= the same backwards > > compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution. > > > > - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we ha= ve seen > > the email, this (2=5E24-1) has been part of the comments discussion d= uring the > > last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and mention= ed on the list we > > wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decide= d that > > is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is not= to handle > > the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topol= ogy to > > take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7. > > > > thanks. > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Chris. > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com=5D > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > >; > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian Hopps > > > > >; > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > Les, > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg (g= insberg) > > > =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF= =D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > Alex - > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com=5D > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > >; > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian Hopps > > > > >; > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > Les, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg (g= insberg) > > > =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF= =D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > Alex - > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com=5D > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > >; > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian Hopps > > > > >; > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > Hi Les, > > > > > > > > Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2=5E24-1 makes = sense again. > > In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in lat= ter one it is > > possible. This is also described in R=46C 5305: > > > > > > > > =22 If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2=5E24 = - 1), this > > > > link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SP=46 computation. = This > > > > will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than buildi= ng > > > > the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is > > > > available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing= .=22 > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2=5E24 = - 1) is in the > > context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise (= 2=5E24-1) is > > because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then thi= s would > > already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration= =E2=80=93 and > > it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. > > > > Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link while p= reserve > > ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it -= IGP-LDP > > sync. If you configure 2=5E24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be ex= cluded from > > IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be= done on > > LAN. > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to b= e used at all =E2=80=93 even if > > only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then you simply= don=E2=80=99t advertise > > the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t advertise the= adjacency to > > the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit a= nd no traffic flows > > to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter wh= at the > > neighbor/DIS is advertising. > > > > My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, but = still use it in > > other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2=5E24-1. = If > > adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all topo= logies, not > > only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric functi= onality > > as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately. > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is no= t and should not > > be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the > > configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It h= as well > > defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be lim= ited to > > those cases. > > > > > > > > The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handle= d by > > existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should alwa= ys be > > the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each n= ode > > utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SP=46 outcome on other routers = based on > > its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I= want to > > embrace. > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always pos= sible or is > > not desired. > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D I was covering the example you provided. It was clear = from your > > example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, = you > > were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. > > > > If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link at a= ll, then you > > need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80=93 = in which case the > > proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help.= > > > > > > > > If you think you have a different example that justifies your pro= posal I > > would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have come up wi= th isn=E2=80=99t > > compelling. > > > > Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. > > > > =5BLes:=5D Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80= =93 in which case your > > example does not apply. > > > > Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring physic= al > > topology. > > > > > > > > > > > > There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. = But > > sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 rout= ers > > between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide alter= native > > L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). > > > > > > > > Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has > > reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is close= r to R3 > > than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is mor= e optimal > > from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2= via R1. It > > is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we hav= e deal > > with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S= -PEs > > or Hub PEs, respectively. > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D We are not discussing all possible network topologies.= The topic > > here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for = a node > > to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2=5E24-1). > > > > Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies your = proposal I > > would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on this use c= ase. > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg (g= insberg) > > > =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF= =D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > I strongly disagree with this proposed change. > > > > > > > > If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then sim= ply don=E2=80=99t > > advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases. > > > > This is why the draft states > > > > > > > > =E2=80=9Ca receiver of a > > > > Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of eit= her > > > > the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset valu= e in > > > > the Reverse Metric TLV or (2=5E24 - 2)=E2=80=9D > > > > > > > > There is no use case for (2=5E24 - 1). > > > > > > > > As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his p= roposal, > > there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 lin= k. That > > is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configur= e a > > larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used = for L1 traffic > > when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use Reverse= -Metric > > to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension= . > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf= Of Naiming > > > > Shen (naiming) > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM > > > > To: Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian Hopp= s > > > > >; > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the =E2=80= =98reverse-metric > > > > TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound d= irection of > > > > the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the pe= er to > > (2=5E24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80= =99 > > > > value in the TLV. > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Naiming, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen (n= aiming) > > > =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0= =B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alexander, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi authors, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have some comments below regarding the draft: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Section 2: =22There is currently only two =46lag bits defined.= =22 Per -07 only > > one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implici= t signaling > > of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via =22Sub-TLV Len=22 field non-zero = value. Text > > in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as we= ll. > > > > > > > > NS> will fix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Section 3.1: =22In order to ensure that an individual TE link = is used as a link > > of last resort during SP=46 computation, ...=22 I guess that you mean= t regular link > > rather than TE link. > > > > > > > > 3) =46or the same section: Per my understanding, this section ass= umes that > > overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. i= t cannot be > > excluded from topology (as link with metric 2=5E24-1), unless origina= tor of the > > TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (R=46= C 5029) > > AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be do= ne by > > allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2=5E2= 4-1 which > > would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from topo= logy > > completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value i= s between > > 0 - 2=5E24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same ru= les for TE > > metric. > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not used= or last resort > > in the use cases we mentioned. > > > > also, this metric value is an =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 bei= ng added on top of > > > > the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to mak= e the > > reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations= . > > > > > > > > One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is= for > > > > IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There = are > > > > three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-on= ly. > > > > R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is > > > > connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R= 3 > > > > was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not bee= n > > > > established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's > > > > loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session ha= s > > > > not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2=5E24-2) on corresponding li= nk. > > > > But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, tho= ugh > > > > with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 repl= ace > > > > inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, = LDP > > > > LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark > > > > corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2=5E24-1), they would= use > > > > inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com > > > pleted. > > > > > > > > An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as= last > > resort, using the same principle as proposed in R=46C 6138. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) =46or the same section: The draft says that if originator uses= narrow > > metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving r= everse > > metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is =22narr= ow=22 max- > > metric or offset 63 for =22wide=22 metric. I.e. the draft assumes tha= t all ISs use > > the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same ti= me is > > not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse Met= ric > > TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to s= pecify > > new flag to mark type of the reverse metric. > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide = or > > > > NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The > > > > document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow=E2= =80=99 case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should = use min(63, > > (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is > > configured for using =22wide=22 metric-type, it will use Extended IS = Reachability > > TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not = obligated > > to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition = to > > Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for =22wide-only= =22 mode. > > > > > > > > NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to = be > > simple. Not to mix them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why in case whe= n TE metric > > offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must mod= ify its TE > > metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be > > straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE = metric part > > then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. =46or ex= ample, > > originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP synchroni= zation > > procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties (me= tric in this > > case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric T= LV > > without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that =22TE metric is le= ft intact=E2=80=9D. > > > > > > > > NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of T= E is > > > > NS> not received, the TE properties will not change > > > > by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metri= c by DIS. > > Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS= > > Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add= > > explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metr= ic TLV it > > should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extend= ed IS > > Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there. > > > > > > > > NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nod= es. > > Will try to add some words to that. > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks=21 > > > > > > > > > > > > 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5= =D1=82: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > > > thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I support this draft, however would like the following aspect/sce= nario > > clarified. > > > > > > > > Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link ini= tiate the > > reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos concur= rently). > > How are implementations supposed to handle this=3F Normally the choic= e of > > metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (whic= h need > > not just be =22overload=22) on the local router which requires the ne= ighbour to > > use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbou= rs > > initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification pro= vide a > > deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may > > conflict in certain =22non-overload=22 conditions. If both routers si= mply accept > > the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the origina= l > > purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism=3F > > > > When you say if both sides initiated this =E2=80=98reverse metric= =E2=80=99, you > > > > implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft.= > > > > > > > > The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever wi= ll be called) of > > > > this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is= > > > > equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus the r= eceived =E2=80=98reverse > > > > metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and both si= des would > > > > keep going up until it=E2=80=99s > > > > overloaded:-) > > > > > > > > Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2=80=98re= verse > > > > metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading case, o= r other > > > > cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend on the ot= her side > > > > sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This both side= s sending a > > > > =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent to an = operator provisions > > > > new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of = the link at > > the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46ollowing options come to my mind: > > > > a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually > > > > apply the reverse metric procedure > > > > b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower > > > > system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other > > > > withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) > > > > c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offse= t > > specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signall= ed but > > the offset) which determines the =22winner=22 so the other withdraws = their TLV. > > > > > > > > Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where= this is > > not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify t= his > > behaviour to ensure interoperability. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > =46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf= Of > > > > Christian Hopps > > > > Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 > > > > To: isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > Cc: isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > Subject: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-m= etric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ > > > > > > > > which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IET=46100. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chris. > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg --5a5d9b13_66334873_d9f Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Nai= ming, Les, Chris,

Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for IGP an= d TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to modify IG= P link properties while left TE link properties intact=3F U-bit set says = that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving IS. =46= rom CSP=46 perspective there is no much difference between TE metrics 2=5E= 24-2 and 2=5E24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98last resort=E2=80=99 = but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. =46or TE metric manipulation we = have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit. =46o= r making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2=5E24-1 = and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE met= ric 2=5E24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSP=46 perspective= ), reverse TE metric 2=5E24-1 could be specified as special value for thi= s like it is specified for IGP link.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= <ginsberg=40cisco.com>, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:
I agree with Naiming on these changes.

Originally I was opposed to the use of max=5Fmetric-1 by reverse metric a= s with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. But Naim= ing has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit to be ef= fective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His proposal of be= ing able to optionally set max=5Fmetric-1 means that even routers who do = not support reverse=5Fmetric will avoid the link in question simply becau= se they will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of the l= ink.

Allowing max=5Fmetric-1 means the link can be completely removed from the= IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way.
While max=5Fmetric-1 is NOT defined as =22do not use=22 for the TE topolo= gy, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SP=46 which consider= s metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwards compati= ble way.

I think this is a significant improvement.

Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using the ne= w link attribute bit.

Les


-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Naiming Shen (naiming)
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps=40chopps.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com>; isis-wg=40ietf.= org; isis-
ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metri= c-07


Hi Chris,

On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopp= s <chopps=40chopps.org> wrote:


Naiming Shen (naiming) <naiming=40cisco.com> writes:

Hi,

Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll probably ski= p
this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily.
I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of<= br />
this.

Hi Naiming,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not add the 2=5E24-1 functionality=3F I'm asking b/c you also just published = a
new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :)

Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart=3F

Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We also = removed
the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D of sub-TLV = of TLV 22 in the LSP.
This change is due to several factors:

- the long discusion ongoing of OSP=46 mailing list of the name =E2=80=9C= overload=E2=80=9D,
which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D reall= y meant, and
what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This version 7 b= orrowed this from OSP=46, and
now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CLink Ove= rload
Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D

- More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2= =80=9D bit in LSP, the
backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other =E2=80=9C= reverse-
metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, if we have to= use this
=E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define the router = =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to
advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really don=E2= =80=99t
want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric'

- Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same effect of= the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit,
since the neighbor can optionally set the (2=5E24-1) and take out the lin= k as
=E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep the= same backwards
compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution.

- I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we have s= een
the email, this (2=5E24-1) has been part of the comments discussion durin= g the
last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and mentioned o= n the list we
wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decided th= at
is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is not to = handle
the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topology = to
take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7.

thanks.
- Naiming


Thanks,
Chris.

Regards,
- Naiming

On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com>> wrote:



=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D<= br /> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,


31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alex -

=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D<= br /> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,



31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alex -

=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D<= br /> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Hi Les,

Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2=5E24-1 makes sense ag= ain.
In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in latter = one it is
possible. This is also described in R=46C 5305:

=22 If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2=5E24 - 1), th= is
link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SP=46 computation. This
will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building
= the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is
available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing.=22

=5BLes:=5D I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2=5E24 - 1) is = in the
context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise (2=5E= 24-1) is
because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then this wo= uld
already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration =E2= =80=93 and
it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup.
Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwardi= ng on the link while preserve
ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it - IGP= -LDP
sync. If you configure 2=5E24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be exclud= ed from
IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be don= e on
LAN.


=5BLes:=5D My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to be used a= t all =E2=80=93 even if
only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then you simply don= =E2=80=99t advertise
the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t advertise the adj= acency to
the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and n= o traffic flows
to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what t= he
neighbor/DIS is advertising.
My point - to have ability to exclude link = from IP topology, but still use it in
other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2=5E24-1. If adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all topologi= es, not
only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric functional= ity
as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately.

=5BLes:=5D This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and sh= ould not
be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the
configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has w= ell
defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be limited= to
those cases.

The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by
existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always b= e
the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each node<= br /> utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SP=46 outcome on other routers base= d on
its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I wan= t to
embrace.

Les



Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always possible or= is
not desired.

=5BLes:=5D I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from you= r
example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, you<= br /> were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link.
If you do not want intra-area traffic to fl= ow over that link at all, then you
need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80=93 in w= hich case the
proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help.

If you think you have a different example that justifies your proposal I<= br />
would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have come up with i= sn=E2=80=99t
compelling.
Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically d= ispersed.
=5BLes:=5D Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80=93 in = which case your
example does not apply.
Not necessary. There could be area represen= ted by sub-ring physical
topology.


There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But
sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 routers<= br /> between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide alternati= ve
L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access).

Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has
reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer to= R3
than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is more op= timal
from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 via= R1. It
is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we have de= al
with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S-PEs=
or Hub PEs, respectively.

=5BLes:=5D We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The top= ic
here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for a no= de
to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2=5E24-1).
Please stay on topic. If you have an exampl= e that justifies your proposal I
would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on this use case.=

Les



Les

Thank you.




31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

I strongly disagree with this proposed change.

If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply don=E2= =80=99t
advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases.
This is why the draft states

=E2=80=9Ca receiver of a
Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either
the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in
the Reverse Metric TLV or (2=5E24 - 2)=E2=80=9D

There is no use case for (2=5E24 - 1).

As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his proposal,=
there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 link. T= hat
is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configure a<= br /> larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for = L1 traffic
when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use Reverse-Met= ric
to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension.

Les


=46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf Of Naim= ing
Shen (naiming)
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov

<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com

Cc: isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.org>; Christian Hopps<= br /> <chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Alex,

Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the =E2=80=98rev= erse-metric
TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound direction= of
the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the peer to
(2=5E24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99<= br />
value in the TLV.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com
wrote:

Hi Naiming,





29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming)<= br />
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0= =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):


Hi Alexander,

Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline.





On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail= .com
wrote:

Hi authors,


I have some comments below regarding the draft:


1) Section 2: =22There is currently only two =46lag bits defined.=22 Per = -07 only
one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implicit si= gnaling
of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via =22Sub-TLV Len=22 field non-zero valu= e. Text
in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as well.<= br />

NS> will fix.






2) Section 3.1: =22In order to ensure that an individual TE link is used = as a link
of last resort during SP=46 computation, ...=22 I guess that you meant re= gular link
rather than TE link.

3) =46or the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes tha= t
overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. it ca= nnot be
excluded from topology (as link with metric 2=5E24-1), unless originator = of the
TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (R=46C = 5029)
AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be done b= y
allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2=5E24-1 = which
would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from topology=
completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is be= tween
0 - 2=5E24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same rules = for TE
metric.


NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not used or l= ast resort
in the use cases we mentioned.
also, this metric value is an =E2=80=98offs= et metric=E2=80=99 being added on top of
the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to make the
reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations.

One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for
IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are
three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only.
R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is
connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3
was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been
established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's
loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has
not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2=5E24-2) on corresponding link.
But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though
with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace
inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP
LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark
corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2=5E24-1), they would use
inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com
pleted.

An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as last
resort, using the same principle as proposed in R=46C 6138.










4) =46or the same section: The draft says that if originator uses narrow<= br />
metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving rever= se
metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is =22narrow=22= max-
metric or offset 63 for =22wide=22 metric. I.e. the draft assumes that al= l ISs use
the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same time i= s
not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse Metric<= br /> TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to speci= fy
new flag to mark type of the reverse metric.


NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The
document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow=E2=80=99= case.






5) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use min(= 63,
(Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is
configured for using =22wide=22 metric-type, it will use Extended IS Reac= hability
TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not obli= gated
to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition to Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for =22wide-only=22 = mode.

NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be
simple. Not to mix them.






6) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE met= ric
offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must modify = its TE
metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be
straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE metr= ic part
then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. =46or exampl= e,
originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP synchronizati= on
procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties (metric= in this
case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that =22TE metric is left i= ntact=E2=80=9D.

NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is<= br /> NS> not received, the TE properties will not change
by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV.






7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by DIS= .
Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS
Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add
explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric T= LV it
should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extended I= S
Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there.

NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes.
Will try to add some words to that.

thanks.
- Naiming







Thanks=21


30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:<= br />



Hi Ketan,

thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline,





On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant=40cisco.com<mailto:ketant=40cisco.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I support this draft, however would like the following aspect/scenario
clarified.

Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link initiate th= e
reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos concurrent= ly).
How are implementations supposed to handle this=3F Normally the choice of=
metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (which ne= ed
not just be =22overload=22) on the local router which requires the neighb= our to
use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbours initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification provide= a
deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may
conflict in certain =22non-overload=22 conditions. If both routers simply= accept
the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism=3F
When you say if both sides initiated this =E2= =80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99, you
implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft.

The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever will be ca= lled) of
this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is
equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus the received = =E2=80=98reverse
metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and both sides woul= d
keep going up until it=E2=80=99s
overloaded:-)

Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading case, or other<= br /> cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend on the other side=
sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This both sides sendin= g a
=E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent to an operator= provisions
new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the link= at
the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this.

thanks.
- Naiming





=46ollowing options come to my mind:
a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually
apply the reverse metric procedure
b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower
system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other
withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies)
c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset
<= /blockquote>
specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled b= ut
the offset) which determines the =22winner=22 so the other withdraws thei= r TLV.

Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where this is=
not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify this<= br /> behaviour to ensure interoperability.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D On Behalf Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13
To: isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40ietf.org
Subject: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07=


The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/

which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IET=46100.

Thanks,
Chris.

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([173.37.102.14]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 00:46:13 -0600 From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" To: Alexander Okonnikov CC: Christian Hopps , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "isis-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 Thread-Index: AQHTXmMvIlsDCkaUj0W5jcon0L55haMrdnkAgAD5RwCAFzjKAIAWpEsAgAEWT4CAAZXigIAAKzoAgAABUgCAAALhAIAABQAAgAAFbACAAAJJgIAACOYAgAfnSgCACf0rgIAAuG8AgAAHH4CABuoYAIAABwmA Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 06:46:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> 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[217.195.72.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h75sm1218213ljf.36.2018.01.18.01.50.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Jan 2018 01:50:14 -0800 (PST) To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" Cc: Christian Hopps , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "isis-ads@ietf.org" References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> From: Alexander Okonnikov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:50:13 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5F1DB17C46750B9B6C39D02E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:50:31 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5F1DB17C46750B9B6C39D02E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Naiming, For signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link we don't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or TE reverse metric is 2^24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to 2^24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling via U-bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware about unreachability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the link for IGP and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do without U-bit. One detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit signals that both metrics (IGP and TE) should be maximized, irrespectively to values of metrics in Offset field and in TE Default Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be present at all). This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value must not exceed 2^24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled using 24-bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values greater than 2^24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than 2^24-1, it should be set by receiver to 2^24-1, like it is being done for 'last resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value must not be greater than 2^24-2. Follow is my proposal in examples without U-bit: 1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE: Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-2. TE reverse metric is not advertised or advertised with value 0. Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP forward metric is >=1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. 2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP: Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-2. Metric Offset value is 0. Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-2 (even if its TE forward metric is >=1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. 3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE: Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-2. Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP and TE forward metrics are >=1). 4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE: Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-1. TE reverse metric is not advertised or advertised with value 0. Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP forward metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. 5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP: Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-1. Metric Offset value is 0. Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its TE forward metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. 6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE: Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-1. Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP and TE forward metrics). Thank you. 16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет: > > Hi Alexander, > > The reason we share that ‘U' bit, first of all, this is a bit on the > link, not in LSP, > unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside knows about that. > So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the metric for both > IGP and TE > to indicate something for both metric. > 2nd, the ‘U’-bit just indicate the max can be upto 2^24-1. if the > accumulated > metric of configured plus the ‘reverse’ is >= 2^24-1. If one wants to have > one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy, send in > ‘reverse-metric' TLV > for the normal metric to be zero, and the ‘reverse-metric’ TE sub-TLV > metric > to be ‘2^24-1’, that will achevie exact the effect, and set the ‘U’ bit. > The other way around is also the same. > > thanks. > - Naiming > >> On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi Naiming, Les, Chris, >> >> Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for >> IGP and TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to >> modify IGP link properties while left TE link properties intact? >> U-bit set says that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized >> on receiving IS. From CSPF perspective there is no much difference >> between TE metrics 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 - they are both indicate ‘last >> resort’ but still ‘usable’ link. For TE metric manipulation we have >> reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don’t need U-bit. For making >> IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2^24-1 and >> don’t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE metric >> 2^24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSPF perspective), >> reverse TE metric 2^24-1 could be specified as special value for this >> like it is specified for IGP link. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Best regards, >> Alexander Okonnikov >> >> 11 янв. 2018 г., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >> >, писал: >>> I agree with Naiming on these changes. >>> >>> Originally I was opposed to the use of max_metric-1 by reverse >>> metric as with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no >>> need. But Naiming has pointed out that in order for the new link >>> attribute bit to be effective all routers have to be upgraded to >>> support it. His proposal of being able to optionally set >>> max_metric-1 means that even routers who do not support >>> reverse_metric will avoid the link in question simply because they >>> will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of the link. >>> >>> Allowing max_metric-1 means the link can be completely removed from >>> the IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way. >>> While max_metric-1 is NOT defined as "do not use" for the TE >>> topology, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SPF which >>> considers metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a >>> backwards compatible way. >>> >>> I think this is a significant improvement. >>> >>> Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using >>> the new link attribute bit. >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM >>>> To: Christian Hopps >>>> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> >; isis-wg@ietf.org >>>> ; isis- >>>> ads@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>>> On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>> > writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we’ll probably skip >>>>>> this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily. >>>>>> I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on >>>>>> top of >>>> this. >>>>> >>>>> Hi Naiming, >>>>> >>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not >>>>> add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just published a >>>>> new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) >>>>> >>>>> Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart? >>>> >>>> Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We >>>> also removed >>>> the section 3.6 “Link Overload Attribute Bit” of sub-TLV of TLV 22 >>>> in the LSP. >>>> This change is due to several factors: >>>> >>>> - the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name >>>> “overload”, >>>> which has disagreement on what does this “overload” really meant, and >>>> what to do if it’s “overloaded”. This version 7 borrowed this from >>>> OSPF, and >>>> now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this “Link Overload >>>> Attribute Bit” >>>> >>>> - More importantly we just realized that, to use this “overload” >>>> bit in LSP, the >>>> backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other >>>> “reverse- >>>> metric” feature which is all local to the link. So, if we have to >>>> use this >>>> “overload” bit in LSP, we have also to define the router >>>> “capabilities” to >>>> advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really >>>> don’t >>>> want to do in ‘reverse-metric' >>>> >>>> - Third with this “U” bit, it achieves the same effect of the >>>> “overload” bit, >>>> since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out the >>>> link as >>>> ‘unusable’ for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep the same >>>> backwards >>>> compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution. >>>> >>>> - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we >>>> have seen >>>> the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments discussion >>>> during the >>>> last call. and at the time I didn’t think clearly and mentioned on >>>> the list we >>>> wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we >>>> decided that >>>> is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is >>>> not to handle >>>> the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE >>>> topology to >>>> take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7. >>>> >>>> thanks. >>>> - Naiming >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chris. >>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM >>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> Les, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>> >>> > написал(а): >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex - >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM >>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> Les, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>> >>> > написал(а): >>>>>> >>>>>> Alex - >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM >>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Les, >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes >>>>>> sense again. >>>> In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in >>>> latter one it is >>>> possible. This is also described in RFC 5305: >>>>>> >>>>>> " If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - >>>>>> 1), this >>>>>> link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. This >>>>>> will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building >>>>>> the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is >>>>>> available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing." >>>>>> >>>>>> [Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - 1) >>>>>> is in the >>>> context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise >>>> (2^24-1) is >>>> because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then >>>> this would >>>> already have been done by the neighbor as part of their >>>> configuration – and >>>> it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. >>>>>> Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link while >>>>>> preserve >>>> ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it >>>> - IGP-LDP >>>> sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be >>>> excluded from >>>> IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could >>>> be done on >>>> LAN. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [Les:] My point is – if you do not want the link to be used at >>>>>> all – even if >>>> only while waiting for LDP sync to complete – then you simply don’t >>>> advertise >>>> the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don’t advertise the >>>> adjacency to >>>> the DIS – so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and no >>>> traffic flows >>>> to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter >>>> what the >>>> neighbor/DIS is advertising. >>>>>> My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, but >>>>>> still use it in >>>> other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2^24-1. If >>>> adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all >>>> topologies, not >>>> only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric >>>> functionality >>>> as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately. >>>>>> >>>>>> [Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not >>>>>> and should not >>>> be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the >>>> configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It >>>> has well >>>> defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be >>>> limited to >>>> those cases. >>>>>> >>>>>> The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by >>>> existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should >>>> always be >>>> the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each >>>> node >>>> utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers >>>> based on >>>> its local view of the current state of convergence is not something >>>> I want to >>>> embrace. >>>>>> >>>>>> Les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always >>>>>> possible or is >>>> not desired. >>>>>> >>>>>> [Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from >>>>>> your >>>> example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 >>>> routers, you >>>> were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. >>>>>> If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link at >>>>>> all, then you >>>> need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 – in >>>> which case the >>>> proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you think you have a different example that justifies your >>>>>> proposal I >>>> would be happy to review it – but the one you have come up with isn’t >>>> compelling. >>>>>> Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. >>>>>> [Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas – in >>>>>> which case your >>>> example does not apply. >>>>>> Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring physical >>>> topology. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But >>>> sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 >>>> routers >>>> between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide >>>> alternative >>>> L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). >>>>>> >>>>>> Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has >>>> reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is >>>> closer to R3 >>>> than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is >>>> more optimal >>>> from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to >>>> R2 via R1. It >>>> is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we >>>> have deal >>>> with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are >>>> S-PEs >>>> or Hub PEs, respectively. >>>>>> >>>>>> [Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The >>>>>> topic >>>> here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case >>>> for a node >>>> to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1). >>>>>> Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies your >>>>>> proposal I >>>> would like to hear it – but please stay focused on this use case. >>>>>> >>>>>> Les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Les >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>> >>> > написал(а): >>>>>> >>>>>> I strongly disagree with this proposed change. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then >>>>>> simply don’t >>>> advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases. >>>>>> This is why the draft states >>>>>> >>>>>> “a receiver of a >>>>>> Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either >>>>>> the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in >>>>>> the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)” >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no use case for (2^24 - 1). >>>>>> >>>>>> As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his >>>>>> proposal, >>>> there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 >>>> link. That >>>> is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but >>>> configure a >>>> larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be >>>> used for L1 traffic >>>> when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use >>>> Reverse-Metric >>>> to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension. >>>>>> >>>>>> Les >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Naiming >>>>>> Shen (naiming) >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM >>>>>> To: Alexander Okonnikov >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>> Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> ; Christian Hopps >>>>>> >>>>> >; >>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok. We’ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the ‘reverse-metric >>>>>> TLV’, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound direction of >>>>>> the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the >>>>>> peer to >>>> (2^24 - 1) regardless the value of the ‘offset metric’ >>>>>> value in the TLV. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks. >>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>>> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Naiming, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 29 дек. 2017 г., в 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>> >>> > написал(а): >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Alexander, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>>> >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi authors, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have some comments below regarding the draft: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." >>>>>> Per -07 only >>>> one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 >>>> (implicit signaling >>>> of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero >>>> value. Text >>>> in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as >>>> well. >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> will fix. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link is >>>>>> used as a link >>>> of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that you meant >>>> regular link >>>> rather than TE link. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section >>>>>> assumes that >>>> overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. >>>> it cannot be >>>> excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless >>>> originator of the >>>> TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV >>>> (RFC 5029) >>>> AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be >>>> done by >>>> allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value >>>> 2^24-1 which >>>> would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from >>>> topology >>>> completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value >>>> is between >>>> 0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same >>>> rules for TE >>>> metric. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> I don’t see there is much difference between not used or last >>>>>> resort >>>> in the use cases we mentioned. >>>>>> also, this metric value is an ‘offset metric’ being added on top of >>>>>> the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to >>>>>> make the >>>> reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for >>>>>> IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are >>>>>> three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only. >>>>>> R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is >>>>>> connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3 >>>>>> was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been >>>>>> established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's >>>>>> loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has >>>>>> not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link. >>>>>> But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though >>>>>> with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace >>>>>> inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP >>>>>> LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark >>>>>> corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2^24-1), they would use >>>>>> inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com >>>>> pleted. >>>>>> >>>>>> An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as >>>>>> last >>>> resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator uses >>>>>> narrow >>>> metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving >>>> reverse >>>> metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is >>>> "narrow" max- >>>> metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes that >>>> all ISs use >>>> the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same >>>> time is >>>> not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse >>>> Metric >>>> TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to >>>> specify >>>> new flag to mark type of the reverse metric. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or >>>>>> NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The >>>>>> document is trying to be complete to mention the ‘narrow’ case. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should >>>>>> use min(63, >>>> (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is >>>> configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS >>>> Reachability >>>> TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is >>>> not obligated >>>> to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition to >>>> Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for >>>> "wide-only" mode. >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be >>>> simple. Not to mix them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when >>>>>> TE metric >>>> offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must >>>> modify its TE >>>> metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be >>>> straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include >>>> TE metric part >>>> then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For >>>> example, >>>> originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP >>>> synchronization >>>> procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties >>>> (metric in this >>>> case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV >>>> without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric is >>>> left intact”. >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is >>>>>> NS> not received, the TE properties will not change >>>>>> by receiving this ‘reverse-metric’ TLV. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE >>>>>> metric by DIS. >>>> Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS >>>> Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add >>>> explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse >>>> Metric TLV it >>>> should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding >>>> Extended IS >>>> Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there. >>>>>> >>>>>> NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes. >>>> Will try to add some words to that. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks. >>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Ketan, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> I support this draft, however would like the following >>>>>> aspect/scenario >>>> clarified. >>>>>> >>>>>> Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link >>>>>> initiate the >>>> reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos >>>> concurrently). >>>> How are implementations supposed to handle this? Normally the choice of >>>> metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition >>>> (which need >>>> not just be "overload") on the local router which requires the >>>> neighbour to >>>> use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbours >>>> initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification >>>> provide a >>>> deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may >>>> conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers >>>> simply accept >>>> the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original >>>> purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism? >>>>>> When you say if both sides initiated this ‘reverse metric’, you >>>>>> implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> The value of this ‘metric offset’ (or whatever will be called) of >>>>>> this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is >>>>>> equal to the configured ‘metric’ value plus the received ‘reverse >>>>>> metrc’ value, that would be non-deterministic and both sides would >>>>>> keep going up until it’s >>>>>> overloaded:-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a ‘reverse >>>>>> metric’ over the link, either in link-overloading case, or other >>>>>> cases. It’s a static number, it does not depend on the other side >>>>>> sending a ‘reverse metric’ or not. This both sides sending a >>>>>> ‘reverse-metric’ over a link is equivalent to an operator provisions >>>>>> new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of >>>>>> the link at >>>> the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks. >>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Following options come to my mind: >>>>>> a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually >>>>>> apply the reverse metric procedure >>>>>> b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower >>>>>> system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other >>>>>> withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) >>>>>> c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset >>>> specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not >>>> signalled but >>>> the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws >>>> their TLV. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where >>>>>> this is >>>> not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify >>>> this >>>> behaviour to ensure interoperability. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Ketan >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Christian Hopps >>>>>> Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 >>>>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> >>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on >>>>>> >>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ >>>>>> >>>>>> which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chris. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > --------------5F1DB17C46750B9B6C39D02E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Naiming,

For signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link we don't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or TE reverse metric is 2^24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to 2^24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling via U-bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware about unreachability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the link for IGP and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do without U-bit. One detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit signals that both metrics (IGP and TE) should be maximized, irrespectively to values of metrics in Offset field and in TE Default Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be present at all).

This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value must not exceed 2^24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled using 24-bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values greater than 2^24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than 2^24-1, it should be set by receiver to 2^24-1, like it is being done for 'last resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value must not be greater than 2^24-2.

Follow is my proposal in examples without U-bit:

1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-2. TE reverse metric is not advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP forward metric is >=1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-2. Metric Offset value is 0.
Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-2 (even if its TE forward metric is >=1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-2.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP and TE forward metrics are >=1).

4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-1. TE reverse metric is not advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP forward metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-1. Metric Offset value is 0.
Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its TE forward metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-1.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP and TE forward metrics).

Thank you.


16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет:

Hi Alexander,

The reason we share that ‘U' bit, first of all, this is a bit on the link, not in LSP,
unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside knows about that.
So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the metric for both IGP and TE
to indicate something for both metric.
2nd, the ‘U’-bit just indicate the max can be upto 2^24-1. if the accumulated
metric of configured plus the ‘reverse’ is >= 2^24-1. If one wants to have
one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy, send in ‘reverse-metric' TLV
for the normal metric to be zero, and the ‘reverse-metric’ TE sub-TLV metric
to be ‘2^24-1’, that will achevie exact the effect, and set the ‘U’ bit.
The other way around is also the same.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Naiming, Les, Chris,

Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for IGP and TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to modify IGP link properties while left TE link properties intact? U-bit set says that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving IS. From CSPF perspective there is no much difference between TE metrics 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 - they are both indicate ‘last resort’ but still ‘usable’ link. For TE metric manipulation we have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don’t need U-bit. For making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2^24-1 and don’t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE metric 2^24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSPF perspective), reverse TE metric 2^24-1 could be specified as special value for this like it is specified for IGP link.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

11 янв. 2018 г., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>, писал:
I agree with Naiming on these changes.

Originally I was opposed to the use of max_metric-1 by reverse metric as with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. But Naiming has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit to be effective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His proposal of being able to optionally set max_metric-1 means that even routers who do not support reverse_metric will avoid the link in question simply because they will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of the link.

Allowing max_metric-1 means the link can be completely removed from the IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way.
While max_metric-1 is NOT defined as "do not use" for the TE topology, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SPF which considers metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwards compatible way.

I think this is a significant improvement.

Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using the new link attribute bit.

Les


-----Original Message-----
From: Naiming Shen (naiming)
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; isis-wg@ietf.org; isis-
ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Chris,

On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote:


Naiming Shen (naiming) <naiming@cisco.com> writes:

Hi,

Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we’ll probably skip
this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily.
I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of
this.

Hi Naiming,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not
add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just published a
new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :)

Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart?

Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We also removed
the section 3.6 “Link Overload Attribute Bit” of sub-TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP.
This change is due to several factors:

- the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name “overload”,
which has disagreement on what does this “overload” really meant, and
what to do if it’s “overloaded”. This version 7 borrowed this from OSPF, and
now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this “Link Overload
Attribute Bit”

- More importantly we just realized that, to use this “overload” bit in LSP, the
backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other “reverse-
metric” feature which is all local to the link. So, if we have to use this
“overload” bit in LSP, we have also to define the router “capabilities” to
advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really don’t
want to do in ‘reverse-metric'

- Third with this “U” bit, it achieves the same effect of the “overload” bit,
since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out the link as
‘unusable’ for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep the same backwards
compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution.

- I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we have seen
the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments discussion during the
last call. and at the time I didn’t think clearly and mentioned on the list we
wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decided that
is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is not to handle
the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topology to
take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7.

thanks.
- Naiming


Thanks,
Chris.

Regards,
- Naiming

On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> wrote:



From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,


31 дек. 2017 г., в 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> написал(а):

Alex -

From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,



31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> написал(а):

Alex -

From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Hi Les,

Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes sense again.
In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in latter one it is
possible. This is also described in RFC 5305:

" If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - 1), this
link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. This
will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building
the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is
available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing."

[Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - 1) is in the
context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise (2^24-1) is
because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then this would
already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration – and
it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup.
Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link while preserve
ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it - IGP-LDP
sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be excluded from
IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be done on
LAN.


[Les:] My point is – if you do not want the link to be used at all – even if
only while waiting for LDP sync to complete – then you simply don’t advertise
the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don’t advertise the adjacency to
the DIS – so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and no traffic flows
to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what the
neighbor/DIS is advertising.
My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, but still use it in
other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2^24-1. If
adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all topologies, not
only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric functionality
as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately.

[Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and should not
be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the
configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has well
defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be limited to
those cases.

The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by
existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always be
the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each node
utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers based on
its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I want to
embrace.

Les



Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always possible or is
not desired.

[Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from your
example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, you
were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link.
If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link at all, then you
need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 – in which case the
proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help.

If you think you have a different example that justifies your proposal I
would be happy to review it – but the one you have come up with isn’t
compelling.
Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed.
[Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas – in which case your
example does not apply.
Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring physical
topology.


There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But
sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 routers
between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide alternative
L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access).

Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has
reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer to R3
than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is more optimal
from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 via R1. It
is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we have deal
with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S-PEs
or Hub PEs, respectively.

[Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The topic
here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for a node
to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1).
Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies your proposal I
would like to hear it – but please stay focused on this use case.

Les



Les

Thank you.




31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> написал(а):

I strongly disagree with this proposed change.

If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply don’t
advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases.
This is why the draft states

“a receiver of a
Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either
the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in
the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)”

There is no use case for (2^24 - 1).

As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his proposal,
there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 link. That
is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configure a
larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for L1 traffic
when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use Reverse-Metric
to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension.

Les


From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Naiming
Shen (naiming)
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov

<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com

Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Alex,

Ok. We’ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the ‘reverse-metric
TLV’, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound direction of
the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the peer to
(2^24 - 1) regardless the value of the ‘offset metric’
value in the TLV.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi Naiming,





29 дек. 2017 г., в 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>> написал(а):


Hi Alexander,

Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline.





On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi authors,


I have some comments below regarding the draft:


1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." Per -07 only
one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implicit signaling
of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero value. Text
in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as well.

NS> will fix.






2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link is used as a link
of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that you meant regular link
rather than TE link.

3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes that
overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. it cannot be
excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless originator of the
TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (RFC 5029)
AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be done by
allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2^24-1 which
would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from topology
completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is between
0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same rules for TE
metric.


NS> I don’t see there is much difference between not used or last resort
in the use cases we mentioned.
also, this metric value is an ‘offset metric’ being added on top of
the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to make the
reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations.

One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for
IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are
three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only.
R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is
connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3
was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been
established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's
loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has
not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link.
But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though
with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace
inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP
LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark
corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2^24-1), they would use
inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com
pleted.

An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as last
resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138.










4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator uses narrow
metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving reverse
metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is "narrow" max-
metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes that all ISs use
the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same time is
not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse Metric
TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to specify
new flag to mark type of the reverse metric.


NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or
NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The
document is trying to be complete to mention the ‘narrow’ case.






5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use min(63,
(Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is
configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS Reachability
TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not obligated
to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition to
Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for "wide-only" mode.

NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be
simple. Not to mix them.






6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE metric
offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must modify its TE
metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be
straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE metric part
then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For example,
originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP synchronization
procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties (metric in this
case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV
without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric is left intact”.

NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is
NS> not received, the TE properties will not change
by receiving this ‘reverse-metric’ TLV.






7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by DIS.
Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS
Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add
explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric TLV it
should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extended IS
Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there.

NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes.
Will try to add some words to that.

thanks.
- Naiming







Thanks!


30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет:




Hi Ketan,

thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline,





On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I support this draft, however would like the following aspect/scenario
clarified.

Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link initiate the
reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos concurrently).
How are implementations supposed to handle this? Normally the choice of
metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (which need
not just be "overload") on the local router which requires the neighbour to
use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbours
initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification provide a
deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may
conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers simply accept
the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original
purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism?
When you say if both sides initiated this ‘reverse metric’, you
implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft.

The value of this ‘metric offset’ (or whatever will be called) of
this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is
equal to the configured ‘metric’ value plus the received ‘reverse
metrc’ value, that would be non-deterministic and both sides would
keep going up until it’s
overloaded:-)

Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a ‘reverse
metric’ over the link, either in link-overloading case, or other
cases. It’s a static number, it does not depend on the other side
sending a ‘reverse metric’ or not. This both sides sending a
‘reverse-metric’ over a link is equivalent to an operator provisions
new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the link at
the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this.

thanks.
- Naiming





Following options come to my mind:
a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually
apply the reverse metric procedure
b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower
system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other
withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies)
c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset
specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled but
the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws their TLV.

Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where this is
not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify this
behaviour to ensure interoperability.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13
To: isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/

which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100.

Thanks,
Chris.

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg


_______________________________________________
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from [10.0.1.4] ([88.201.167.240]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y26sm334533ljc.97.2018.01.18.10.35.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:35:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:35:40 +0300 From: Alexander Okonnikov To: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" Cc: Christian Hopps , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "=?utf-8?Q?isis-wg=40ietf.org?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?isis-ads=40ietf.org?=" Message-ID: <2d7d8e4b-8e13-425a-b310-c1528491ef90@Spark> In-Reply-To: <5F656212-6108-47D5-B114-BBA4A75B83D8@cisco.com> References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> <5F656212-6108-47D5-B114-BBA4A75B83D8@cisco.com> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 2d7d8e4b-8e13-425a-b310-c1528491ef90@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5a60e909_5bd062c2_27e1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:36:05 -0000 --5a60e909_5bd062c2_27e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Naiming, Yes, my point is that reverse-metric values 2=5E24-2 and 2=5E24-1 are spe= cial-purpose values for which operation =E2=80=9Cset=E2=80=9D should be a= pplied rather than =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D. =46or other values (below 2=5E2= 4-2) operation =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D is performed with the rule =E2=80=98= min(sum, 2=5E24-2)=E2=80=99. Thank you. Best regards, Alexander Okonnikov 18 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 21:30 +0300, Naiming Shen (naiming) = , =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB: > > Hi Alexander, > > As mentioned, the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 is an =E2=80=98Offse= t metric=E2=80=99, and it=E2=80=99s accumulative on the receiving > end. So when you send (2=5E24-2) over, unless the other side is configu= red on interface of > IS-IS metric of zero (which is the case on Pnode), then you are not goi= ng to deterministically > for the case of (2=5E24-2) vs (2=5E24-1) as a result. The =E2=80=98U=E2= =80=99 bit is for setting that top limit for neighbor. > Thus in the mobility use case, without knowing the other side configure= d metric, this side > can do =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=982=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98etc=E2=80=99 = to gradually increase the =E2=80=9Cinbound=E2=80=9D metric towards itself= . > > If this were an =E2=80=98absolute=E2=80=99 value for the other side to = install regardless of their configured metric, > then you are right. > > thanks. > - Naiming > > > On Jan 18, 2018, at 1:50 AM, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > > > Hi Naiming, > > > > =46or signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link w= e don't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or= TE reverse metric is 2=5E24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to= 2=5E24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling = via U-bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware about= unreachability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the link for= IGP and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do without U-bit.= One detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit signals that both met= rics (IGP and TE) should be maximized, irrespectively to values of metric= s in Offset field and in TE Default Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be= present at all). > > > > This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value mu= st not exceed 2=5E24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled using= 24-bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values greater = than 2=5E24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than 2=5E24-= 1, it should be set by receiver to 2=5E24-1, like it is being done for 'l= ast resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value must not b= e greater than 2=5E24-2. > > > > =46ollow is my proposal in examples without U-bit: > > > > 1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE: > > > > Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2=5E24-2. TE reverse metric is= not advertised or advertised with value 0. > > Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2=5E24-2 (even if its IGP forward met= ric is >=3D1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. > > > > 2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP: > > > > Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2=5E24-2. Metric Offset value is= 0. > > Receiver sets its TE metric to 2=5E24-2 (even if its TE forward metri= c is >=3D1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. > > > > 3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE: > > > > Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2=5E24-2. > > Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2=5E24-2 (even if its IGP and= TE forward metrics are >=3D1). > > > > 4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE: > > > > Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2=5E24-1. TE reverse metric is= not advertised or advertised with value 0. > > Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP f= orward metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. > > > > 5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP: > > > > Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2=5E24-1. Metric Offset value is= 0. > > Receiver sets its TE metric to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to its TE for= ward metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. > > > > 6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE: > > > > Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2=5E24-1. > > Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to i= ts IGP and TE forward metrics). > > Thank you. > > > > 16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82= : > > > > > > Hi Alexander, > > > > > > The reason we share that =E2=80=98U' bit, first of all, this is a b= it on the link, not in LSP, > > > unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside knows about t= hat. > > > So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the metric for bo= th IGP and TE > > > to indicate something for both metric. > > > 2nd, the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99-bit just indicate the max can be upto = 2=5E24-1. if the accumulated > > > metric of configured plus the =E2=80=98reverse=E2=80=99 is >=3D 2=5E= 24-1. If one wants to have > > > one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy, send in =E2=80= =98reverse-metric' TLV > > > for the normal metric to be zero, and the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2= =80=99 TE sub-TLV metric > > > to be =E2=80=982=5E24-1=E2=80=99, that will achevie exact the effec= t, and set the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit. > > > The other way around is also the same. > > > > > > thanks. > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Naiming, Les, Chris, > > > > > > > > Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both fo= r IGP and TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to m= odify IGP link properties while left TE link properties intact=3F U-bit s= et says that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving= IS. =46rom CSP=46 perspective there is no much difference between TE met= rics 2=5E24-2 and 2=5E24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98last resort=E2= =80=99 but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. =46or TE metric manipulat= ion we have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t need U-bi= t. =46or making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2=5E= 24-1 and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that T= E metric 2=5E24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSP=46 perspe= ctive), reverse TE metric 2=5E24-1 could be specified as special value fo= r this like it is specified for IGP link. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > > > > 11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (g= insberg) , =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB: > > > > > I agree with Naiming on these changes. > > > > > > > > > > Originally I was opposed to the use of max=5Fmetric-1 by revers= e metric as with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need= . But Naiming has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bi= t to be effective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His prop= osal of being able to optionally set max=5Fmetric-1 means that even route= rs who do not support reverse=5Fmetric will avoid the link in question si= mply because they will respond to the large advertised metric at both end= s of the link. > > > > > > > > > > Allowing max=5Fmetric-1 means the link can be completely remove= d from the IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way.= > > > > > While max=5Fmetric-1 is NOT defined as =22do not use=22 for the= TE topology, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SP=46 whic= h considers metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwar= ds compatible way. > > > > > > > > > > I think this is a significant improvement. > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of us= ing the new link attribute bit. > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > =46rom: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM > > > > > > To: Christian Hopps > > > > > Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) ; isis-wg=40= ietf.org; isis- > > > > > > ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-r= everse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99= ll probably skip > > > > > > > > this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be a= dded easily. > > > > > > > > I suspect there are a number of other things can be later= ride on top of > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Naiming, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that yo= u would not > > > > > > > add the 2=5E24-1 functionality=3F I'm asking b/c you also j= ust published a > > > > > > > new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of= heart=3F > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft= :-) We also removed > > > > > > the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D= of sub-TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP. > > > > > > This change is due to several factors: > > > > > > > > > > > > - the long discusion ongoing of OSP=46 mailing list of the na= me =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D, > > > > > > which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2= =80=9D really meant, and > > > > > > what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This= version 7 borrowed this from OSP=46, and > > > > > > now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80= =9CLink Overload > > > > > > Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D > > > > > > > > > > > > - More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9C= overload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, the > > > > > > backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the ot= her =E2=80=9Creverse- > > > > > > metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, i= f we have to use this > > > > > > =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define= the router =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to > > > > > > advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we r= eally don=E2=80=99t > > > > > > want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' > > > > > > > > > > > > - Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the sa= me effect of the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit, > > > > > > since the neighbor can optionally set the (2=5E24-1) and take= out the link as > > > > > > =E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean t= ime keep the same backwards > > > > > > compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solut= ion. > > > > > > > > > > > > - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, sin= ce we have seen > > > > > > the email, this (2=5E24-1) has been part of the comments disc= ussion during the > > > > > > last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and= mentioned on the list we > > > > > > wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, w= e decided that > > > > > > is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing tha= t is not to handle > > > > > > the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support = TE topology to > > > > > > take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7= . > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Chris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov= =40gmail.com=5D > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM > > > > > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian = Hopps > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Gin= sberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov= =40gmail.com=5D > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM > > > > > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian = Hopps > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Gin= sberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander.okonnikov= =40gmail.com=5D > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM > > > > > > > > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christian = Hopps > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Les, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2=5E24-= 1 makes sense again. > > > > > > In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, whil= e in latter one it is > > > > > > possible. This is also described in R=46C 5305: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =22 If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric = (2=5E24 - 1), this > > > > > > > > link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SP=46 compu= tation. This > > > > > > > > will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other tha= n building > > > > > > > > the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that = is > > > > > > > > available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop= routing.=22 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D I am well aware of this. My comment regarding = (2=5E24 - 1) is in the > > > > > > context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to adv= ertise (2=5E24-1) is > > > > > > because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes = then this would > > > > > > already have been done by the neighbor as part of their confi= guration =E2=80=93 and > > > > > > it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. > > > > > > > > Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link= while preserve > > > > > > ability to use link for other transport. An example when we n= eed it - IGP-LDP > > > > > > sync. If you configure 2=5E24-1 on the neighbor, then link wi= ll be excluded from > > > > > > IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it = could be done on > > > > > > LAN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the l= ink to be used at all =E2=80=93 even if > > > > > > only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then yo= u simply don=E2=80=99t advertise > > > > > > the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t adver= tise the adjacency to > > > > > > the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that c= ircuit and no traffic flows > > > > > > to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not m= atter what the > > > > > > neighbor/DIS is advertising. > > > > > > > > My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topolo= gy, but still use it in > > > > > > other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2=5E= 24-1. If > > > > > > adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from = all topologies, not > > > > > > only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metri= c functionality > > > > > > as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately= . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metr= ic is not and should not > > > > > > be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the > > > > > > configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reaso= ns. It has well > > > > > > defined use cases which the draft describes and its use shoul= d be limited to > > > > > > those cases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The additional use cases you have suggested can already b= e handled by > > > > > > existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that sho= uld always be > > > > > > the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results whe= n each node > > > > > > utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SP=46 outcome on other = routers based on > > > > > > its local view of the current state of convergence is not som= ething I want to > > > > > > embrace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not al= ways possible or is > > > > > > not desired. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D I was covering the example you provided. It wa= s clear from your > > > > > > example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 r= outers, you > > > > > > were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. > > > > > > > > If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that l= ink at all, then you > > > > > > need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2= =80=93 in which case the > > > > > > proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would n= ot help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you think you have a different example that justifies = your proposal I > > > > > > would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have co= me up with isn=E2=80=99t > > > > > > compelling. > > > > > > > > Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different are= as =E2=80=93 in which case your > > > > > > example does not apply. > > > > > > > > Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-rin= g physical > > > > > > topology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path betwee= n them. But > > > > > > sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit= L2 routers > > > > > > between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provi= de alternative > > > > > > L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when= R3 has > > > > > > reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 = is closer to R3 > > > > > > than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, i= t is more optimal > > > > > > from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather th= an to R2 via R1. It > > > > > > is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive whe= n we have deal > > > > > > with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and = R2 are S-PEs > > > > > > or Hub PEs, respectively. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5BLes:=5D We are not discussing all possible network top= ologies. The topic > > > > > > here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use c= ase for a node > > > > > > to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2=5E24-1). > > > > > > > > Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifi= es your proposal I > > > > > > would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on th= is use case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Gin= sberg (ginsberg) > > > > > > > =D0=BD=D0= =B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I strongly disagree with this proposed change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to take the link totally out of the topology = then simply don=E2=80=99t > > > > > > advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN case= s. > > > > > > > > This is why the draft states > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =E2=80=9Ca receiver of a > > > > > > > > Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest valu= e of either > > > > > > > > the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Off= set value in > > > > > > > > the Reverse Metric TLV or (2=5E24 - 2)=E2=80=9D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no use case for (2=5E24 - 1). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justi= fy his proposal, > > > > > > there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of th= e L1 link. That > > > > > > is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but = configure a > > > > > > larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only = be used for L1 traffic > > > > > > when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use= Reverse-Metric > > > > > > to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this e= xtension. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Les > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D O= n Behalf Of Naiming > > > > > > > > Shen (naiming) > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM > > > > > > > > To: Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: isis-wg=40ietf.org; Christ= ian Hopps > > > > > > > > >; > > > > > > > > isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of = the =E2=80=98reverse-metric > > > > > > > > TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the i= nbound direction of > > > > > > > > the link not to be used and the metric should be raised b= y the peer to > > > > > > (2=5E24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metr= ic=E2=80=99 > > > > > > > > value in the TLV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Naiming, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming= Shen (naiming) > > > > > > > =D0=BD=D0=B0= =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alexander, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi authors, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have some comments below regarding the draft: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Section 2: =22There is currently only two =46lag bits = defined.=22 Per -07 only > > > > > > one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 = (implicit signaling > > > > > > of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via =22Sub-TLV Len=22 field n= on-zero value. Text > > > > > > in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be remov= ed as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> will fix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Section 3.1: =22In order to ensure that an individual = TE link is used as a link > > > > > > of last resort during SP=46 computation, ...=22 I guess that = you meant regular link > > > > > > rather than TE link. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) =46or the same section: Per my understanding, this sec= tion assumes that > > > > > > overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link= . I.e. it cannot be > > > > > > excluded from topology (as link with metric 2=5E24-1), unless= originator of the > > > > > > TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub= -TLV (R=46C 5029) > > > > > > AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it cou= ld be done by > > > > > > allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special val= ue 2=5E24-1 which > > > > > > would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded f= rom topology > > > > > > completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric= value is between > > > > > > 0 - 2=5E24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The= same rules for TE > > > > > > metric. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between = not used or last resort > > > > > > in the use cases we mentioned. > > > > > > > > also, this metric value is an =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80= =99 being added on top of > > > > > > > > the existing local metric. It would not be always feasibl= e to make the > > > > > > reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different op= erations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes = sense is for > > > > > > > > IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain= . There are > > > > > > > > three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 = is L1-only. > > > > > > > > R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and= R3 is > > > > > > > > connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between = R2 and R3 > > > > > > > > was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has= not been > > > > > > > > established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towar= ds R2's > > > > > > > > loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP se= ssion has > > > > > > > > not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2=5E24-2) on correspo= nding link. > > > > > > > > But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-a= rea, though > > > > > > > > with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and= R3 replace > > > > > > > > inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a = result, LDP > > > > > > > > LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers ma= rk > > > > > > > > corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2=5E24-1), th= ey would use > > > > > > > > inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com > > > > > > > pleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusab= le or as last > > > > > > resort, using the same principle as proposed in R=46C 6138. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) =46or the same section: The draft says that if origina= tor uses narrow > > > > > > metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on rec= eiving reverse > > > > > > metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is= =22narrow=22 max- > > > > > > metric or offset 63 for =22wide=22 metric. I.e. the draft ass= umes that all ISs use > > > > > > the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the= same time is > > > > > > not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Rev= erse Metric > > > > > > TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV.= Or to specify > > > > > > new flag to mark type of the reverse metric. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either r= un wide or > > > > > > > > NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The > > > > > > > > document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98= narrow=E2=80=99 case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS= should use min(63, > > > > > > (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If= DIS is > > > > > > configured for using =22wide=22 metric-type, it will use Exte= nded IS Reachability > > > > > > TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS= is not obligated > > > > > > to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in a= ddition to > > > > > > Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for =22w= ide-only=22 mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as ab= ove, to be > > > > > > simple. Not to mix them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why in = case when TE metric > > > > > > offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS = must modify its TE > > > > > > metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it wou= ld be > > > > > > straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't inc= lude TE metric part > > > > > > then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. = =46or example, > > > > > > originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP s= ynchronization > > > > > > procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE proper= ties (metric in this > > > > > > case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse = metric TLV > > > > > > without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that =22TE metr= ic is left intact=E2=80=9D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-= TLV of TE is > > > > > > > > NS> not received, the TE properties will not change > > > > > > > > by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of = TE metric by DIS. > > > > > > Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Ext= ended IS > > > > > > Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be bette= r to add > > > > > > explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reve= rse Metric TLV it > > > > > > should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of correspondin= g Extended IS > > > > > > Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present ther= e. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and o= ther nodes. > > > > > > Will try to add some words to that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks=21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88= =D0=B5=D1=82: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ketan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for the support and comments. some clarification i= nline, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I support this draft, however would like the following as= pect/scenario > > > > > > clarified. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p = link initiate the > > > > > > reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hello= s concurrently). > > > > > > How are implementations supposed to handle this=3F Normally t= he choice of > > > > > > metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular conditi= on (which need > > > > > > not just be =22overload=22) on the local router which require= s the neighbour to > > > > > > use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both = neighbours > > > > > > initiate this process, it would be good to have the specifica= tion provide a > > > > > > deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provi= ded may > > > > > > conflict in certain =22non-overload=22 conditions. If both ro= uters simply accept > > > > > > the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the= original > > > > > > purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism=3F > > > > > > > > When you say if both sides initiated this =E2=80=98revers= e metric=E2=80=99, you > > > > > > > > implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in th= e draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or wha= tever will be called) of > > > > > > > > this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this n= umber is > > > > > > > > equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value pl= us the received =E2=80=98reverse > > > > > > > > metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and= both sides would > > > > > > > > keep going up until it=E2=80=99s > > > > > > > > overloaded:-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2= =80=98reverse > > > > > > > > metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading= case, or other > > > > > > > > cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend o= n the other side > > > > > > > > sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This b= oth sides sending a > > > > > > > > =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalen= t to an operator provisions > > > > > > > > new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both s= ides of the link at > > > > > > the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > - Naiming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =46ollowing options come to my mind: > > > > > > > > a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers a= ctually > > > > > > > > apply the reverse metric procedure > > > > > > > > b) when this condition is detected, the router with highe= r/lower > > > > > > > > system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the ot= her > > > > > > > > withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) > > > > > > > > c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metr= ic offset > > > > > > specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not= signalled but > > > > > > the offset) which determines the =22winner=22 so the other wi= thdraws their TLV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the mechanism is not specific to overload condition= s (where this is > > > > > > not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to c= larify this > > > > > > behaviour to ensure interoperability. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Ketan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > =46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org=5D O= n Behalf Of > > > > > > > > Christian Hopps > > > > > > > > Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 > > > > > > > > To: isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Cc: isis-ads=40ietf.org > > > > > > > Subject: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-r= everse-metric-07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last = Call on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-= metric/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IET=4610= 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Chris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F > > > > > Isis-wg mailing list > > > > > Isis-wg=40ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > > > > > > --5a60e909_5bd062c2_27e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hi Naiming,

Yes, my point is that reverse-metric values 2=5E24-2 and 2=5E24-1 are spe= cial-purpose values for which operation =E2=80=9Cset=E2=80=9D should be a= pplied rather than =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D. =46or other values (below 2=5E2= 4-2) operation =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D is performed with the rule =E2=80=98= min(sum, 2=5E24-2)=E2=80=99.

Thank you.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

18 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 21:30 +0300, Naiming Shen (naiming) = <naiming=40cisco.com>, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:

Hi Alexander,

As mentioned, the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 is= an =E2=80=98Offset metric=E2=80=99, and it=E2=80=99s accumulative on the= receiving
end. So when you send (2=5E24-2) over, unless the oth= er side is configured on interface of
IS-IS metric of zero (which is the case on Pnode), th= en you are not going to deterministically
for the case of (2=5E24-2) vs (2=5E24-1) as a result.= The =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit is for setting that top limit for neighbor.<= /div>
Thus in the mobility use case, without knowing the ot= her side configured metric, this side
can do =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=982=E2=80=99, =E2=80= =98etc=E2=80=99 to gradually increase the =E2=80=9Cinbound=E2=80=9D metri= c towards itself.

If this were an =E2=80=98absolute=E2=80=99 value for = the other side to install regardless of their configured metric,
then you are right.&=23160;

thanks.
- Naiming

On Jan 18, 2018, at 1:50 AM, Alexander Okonnikov <= ale= xander.okonnikov=40gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Naiming,

=46or signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link we do= n't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or TE = reverse metric is 2=5E24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to 2=5E= 24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling via U= -bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware about unre= achability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the link for IGP = and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do without U-bit. One = detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit signals that both metrics = (IGP and TE) should be maximized, irrespectively to values of metrics in = Offset field and in TE Default Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be pres= ent at all).

This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value must n= ot exceed 2=5E24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled using 24-= bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values greater than= 2=5E24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than 2=5E24-1, i= t should be set by receiver to 2=5E24-1, like it is being done for 'last = resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value must not be gr= eater than 2=5E24-2.

=46ollow is my proposal in examples without U-bit:

1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2=5E24-2. TE reverse metric is not= advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2=5E24-2 (even if its IGP forward metric = is >=3D1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2=5E24-2. Metric Offset value is 0.<= br class=3D=22=22 /> Receiver sets its TE metric to 2=5E24-2 (even if its TE forward metric is= >=3D1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2=5E24-2.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2=5E24-2 (even if its IGP and TE = forward metrics are >=3D1).

4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2=5E24-1. TE reverse metric is not= advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP forwa= rd metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2=5E24-1. Metric Offset value is 0.<= br class=3D=22=22 /> Receiver sets its TE metric to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to its TE forward= metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2=5E24-1.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2=5E24-1 (irrespectively to its I= GP and TE forward metrics).

Thank you.


16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naimin= g) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:

Hi Alexander,

The reason we share that =E2=80=98U' bit, first of al= l, this is a bit on the link, not in LSP,
unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside= knows about that.
So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the= metric for both IGP and TE
to indicate something for both metric.
2nd, the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99-bit just indicate the ma= x can be upto 2=5E24-1. if the accumulated
metric of configured plus the =E2=80=98reverse=E2=80=99= is >=3D 2=5E24-1. If one wants to have
one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy= , send in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' TLV
for the normal metric to be zero, and the =E2=80=98re= verse-metric=E2=80=99 TE sub-TLV metric
to be =E2=80=982=5E24-1=E2=80=99, that will achevie e= xact the effect, and set the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit.
The other way around is also the same.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov <= ;alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com> wrote:=

Hi Naiming, Les, Chris,

Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for IGP an= d TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to modify IG= P link properties while left TE link properties intact=3F U-bit set says = that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving IS. =46= rom CSP=46 perspective there is no much difference between TE metrics 2=5E= 24-2 and 2=5E24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98last resort=E2=80=99 = but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. =46or TE metric manipulation we = have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit. =46o= r making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2=5E24-1 = and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE met= ric 2=5E24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSP=46 perspective= ), reverse TE metric 2=5E24-1 could be specified as special value for thi= s like it is specified for IGP link.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)= <ginsberg=40cisco.com>, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0= =D0=BB:
I agree with Naiming on thes= e changes.

Originally I was opposed to the use of max=5Fmetric-1 by reverse metric a= s with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. But Naim= ing has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit to be ef= fective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His proposal of be= ing able to optionally set max=5Fmetric-1 means that even routers who do = not support reverse=5Fmetric will avoid the link in question simply becau= se they will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of the l= ink.

Allowing max=5Fmetric-1 means the link can be completely removed from the= IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way.
While max=5Fmetric-1 is NOT defined as =22do not use=22 for the TE topolo= gy, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SP=46 which consider= s metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwards compati= ble way.

I think this is a significant improvement.

Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using the ne= w link attribute bit.

Les


-----Original Message----- =46rom: Naiming Shen (naiming)
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps=40chopps.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg=40cisco.com>= ; isis-wg=40ietf.org; isis-
ads=40ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metri= c-07


Hi Chris,

On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM,= Christian Hopps <chopps=40chopps.org> wrote:


Naiming Shen (naiming) <naiming=40cisco.com> writ= es:

Hi,

Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll probably ski= p
this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily.
I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of<= br class=3D=22=22 />
this.

Hi Naiming,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would not add the 2=5E24-1 functionality=3F I'm asking b/c you also just published = a
new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :)

Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart=3F

Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We also = removed
the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D of sub-TLV = of TLV 22 in the LSP.
This change is due to several factors:

- the long discusion ongoing of OSP=46 mailing list of the name =E2=80=9C= overload=E2=80=9D,
which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D reall= y meant, and
what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This version 7 b= orrowed this from OSP=46, and
now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CLink Ove= rload
Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D

- More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2= =80=9D bit in LSP, the
backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other =E2=80=9C= reverse-
metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, if we have to= use this
=E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define the router = =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to
advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really don=E2= =80=99t
want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric'

- Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same effect of= the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit,
since the neighbor can optionally set the (2=5E24-1) and take out the lin= k as
=E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep the= same backwards
compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution.

- I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we have s= een
the email, this (2=5E24-1) has been part of the comments discussion durin= g the
last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and mentioned o= n the list we
wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decided th= at
is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is not to = handle
the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topology = to
take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7.

thanks.
- Naiming


Thanks,
Chris.

Regards,
- Naiming

On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com>> wrote:



=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander= .okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40= cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.o= rg>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40= chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40= ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,


31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0):

Alex -

=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander= .okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40= cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.o= rg>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40= chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40= ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,



31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0):

Alex -

=46rom: Alexander Okonnikov =5Bmailto:alexander= .okonnikov=40gmail.com=5D
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40= cisco.com>>;
isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40ietf.o= rg>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40= chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40= ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Hi Les,

Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2=5E24-1 makes sense ag= ain.
In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in latter = one it is
possible. This is also described in R=46C 5305:

=22 If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2=5E24 - 1), th= is
link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SP=46 computation. This
will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building
the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is
available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing.=22

=5BLes:=5D I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2=5E24 - 1) is = in the
context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise (2=5E= 24-1) is
because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then this wo= uld
already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration =E2= =80=93 and
it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup.
Idea was to temporarily disa= ble IP forwarding on the link while preserve
ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it - IGP= -LDP
sync. If you configure 2=5E24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be exclud= ed from
IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be don= e on
LAN.


=5BLes:=5D My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to be used a= t all =E2=80=93 even if
only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then you simply don= =E2=80=99t advertise
the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t advertise the adj= acency to
the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and n= o traffic flows
to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what t= he
neighbor/DIS is advertising.
My point - to have ability t= o exclude link from IP topology, but still use it in
=
other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2=5E24-1. If adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all topologi= es, not
only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric functional= ity
as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately.

=5BLes:=5D This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and sh= ould not
be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the
configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has w= ell
defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be limited= to
those cases.

The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by
existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always b= e
the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each node<= br class=3D=22=22 /> utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SP=46 outcome on other routers base= d on
its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I wan= t to
embrace.

Les



Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always possible or= is
not desired.

=5BLes:=5D I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from you= r
example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, you<= br class=3D=22=22 /> were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link.
If you do not want intra-are= a traffic to flow over that link at all, then you
need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80=93 in w= hich case the
proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help.

If you think you have a different example that justifies your proposal I<= br class=3D=22=22 />
would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have come up with i= sn=E2=80=99t
compelling.
Two L1/L2 routers could be g= eographically dispersed.
=5BLes:=5D Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80=93 in = which case your
example does not apply.
Not necessary. There could b= e area represented by sub-ring physical
=
topology.


There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But
sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 routers<= br class=3D=22=22 /> between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide alternati= ve
L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access).

Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has
reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer to= R3
than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is more op= timal
from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 via= R1. It
is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we have de= al
with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are S-PEs=
or Hub PEs, respectively.

=5BLes:=5D We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The top= ic
here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for a no= de
to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2=5E24-1).
Please stay on topic. If you= have an example that justifies your proposal I
would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on this use case.=

Les



Les

Thank you.




31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
<ginsberg=40cisco.com<mailto:gins= berg=40cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0):

I strongly disagree with this proposed change.

If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply don=E2= =80=99t
advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases.
This is why the draft states=

=E2=80=9Ca receiver of a
Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either
the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in
the Reverse Metric TLV or (2=5E24 - 2)=E2=80=9D

There is no use case for (2=5E24 - 1).

As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his proposal,=
there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 link. T= hat
is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configure a<= br class=3D=22=22 /> larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for = L1 traffic
when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use Reverse-Met= ric
to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this extension.

Les


=46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org= =5D On Behalf Of Naiming
Shen (naiming)
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov

<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com

Cc: isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40= ietf.org>; Christian Hopps
<chopps=40chopps.org<mailto:chopps=40= chopps.org>>;
isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads=40= ietf.org
Subject: Re: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Alex,

Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the =E2=80=98rev= erse-metric
TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound direction= of
the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the peer to
(2=5E24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99<= br class=3D=22=22 />
value in the TLV.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com
wrote:

Hi Naiming,





29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming)<= br class=3D=22=22 />
<naiming=40cisco.com<mailto:naiming=40= cisco.com>> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):=


Hi Alexander,

Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline.





On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov=40gmail.com
wrote:

Hi authors,


I have some comments below regarding the draft:


1) Section 2: =22There is currently only two =46lag bits defined.=22 Per = -07 only
one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implicit si= gnaling
of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via =22Sub-TLV Len=22 field non-zero valu= e. Text
in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as well.<= br class=3D=22=22 />

NS> will fix.






2) Section 3.1: =22In order to ensure that an individual TE link is used = as a link
of last resort during SP=46 computation, ...=22 I guess that you meant re= gular link
rather than TE link.

3) =46or the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes tha= t
overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. it ca= nnot be
excluded from topology (as link with metric 2=5E24-1), unless originator = of the
TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (R=46C = 5029)
AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be done b= y
allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2=5E24-1 = which
would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from topology=
completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is be= tween
0 - 2=5E24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same rules = for TE
metric.


NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not used or l= ast resort
in the use cases we mentioned.
also, this metric value is a= n =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 being added on top of
the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to make the
reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different operations.

One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for
IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are
three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only.
R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is
connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3
was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been
established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's
loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has
not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2=5E24-2) on corresponding link.
But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though
with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace
inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP
LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark
corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2=5E24-1), they would use
inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com
pleted.

An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as last
resort, using the same principle as proposed in R=46C 6138.










4) =46or the same section: The draft says that if originator uses narrow<= br class=3D=22=22 />
metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving rever= se
metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is =22narrow=22= max-
metric or offset 63 for =22wide=22 metric. I.e. the draft assumes that al= l ISs use
the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same time i= s
not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse Metric<= br class=3D=22=22 /> TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to speci= fy
new flag to mark type of the reverse metric.


NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide or NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The
document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow=E2=80=99= case.






5) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use min(= 63,
(Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is
configured for using =22wide=22 metric-type, it will use Extended IS Reac= hability
TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not obli= gated
to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition to Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for =22wide-only=22 = mode.

NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to be
simple. Not to mix them.






6) =46or the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE met= ric
offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must modify = its TE
metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be
straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE metr= ic part
then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. =46or exampl= e,
originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP synchronizati= on
procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties (metric= in this
case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that =22TE metric is left i= ntact=E2=80=9D.

NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE is<= br class=3D=22=22 /> NS> not received, the TE properties will not change
by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV.






7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by DIS= .
Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS
Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add
explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric T= LV it
should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extended I= S
Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there.

NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other nodes.
Will try to add some words to that.

thanks.
- Naiming







Thanks=21


30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:<= br class=3D=22=22 />



Hi Ketan,

thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline,





On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant=40cisco.com<mailto:ketant=40c= isco.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I support this draft, however would like the following aspect/scenario
clarified.

Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link initiate th= e
reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos concurrent= ly).
How are implementations supposed to handle this=3F Normally the choice of=
metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (which ne= ed
not just be =22overload=22) on the local router which requires the neighb= our to
use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both neighbours initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification provide= a
deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may
conflict in certain =22non-overload=22 conditions. If both routers simply= accept
the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the original purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism=3F
When you say if both sides i= nitiated this =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99, you
implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft.

The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever will be ca= lled) of
this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is
equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus the received = =E2=80=98reverse
metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and both sides woul= d
keep going up until it=E2=80=99s
overloaded:-)

Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading case, or other<= br class=3D=22=22 /> cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend on the other side=
sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This both sides sendin= g a
=E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent to an operator= provisions
new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the link= at
the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this.

thanks.
- Naiming





=46ollowing options come to my mind:
a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually
apply the reverse metric procedure
b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower
system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other
withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies)
c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset
specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled b= ut
the offset) which determines the =22winner=22 so the other withdraws thei= r TLV.

Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where this is=
not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify this<= br class=3D=22=22 /> behaviour to ensure interoperability.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Isis-wg =5Bmailto:isis-wg-bounces=40ietf.org= =5D On Behalf Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13
To: isis-wg=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg=40= ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads=40ietf.org<mailto:isis-ad= s=40ietf.org
Subject: =5BIsis-wg=5D WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07=


The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on

https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/

which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IET=46100.

Thanks,
Chris.

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/is= is-wg

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--5a60e909_5bd062c2_27e1-- From nobody Thu Jan 18 15:04:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AF5B126C3D; Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:04:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.53 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.53 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GCvevcKmmI2x; Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DC89129C6F; Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:04:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=97822; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1516316663; x=1517526263; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=xRzetQ/Jj8V6/dW380ziYeUBaQ755iPnYkliihMf3Y0=; b=G7aRRQsW0XlEIqCIyhtlTo/He0l2uLTkRPJMJJeiw8CSTNhNSJkY5o6J 3KU4Jczk9FQTduTCjLsgv+ay04yljc4GeJIN6q9N9+swOI5/5YExRcTMu Lv/urqxA1VvEIHf2mNWYW8Sej7eeVPH//zUi/HN0jSzx8t+WW6h8ID4e7 k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,378,1511827200"; d="scan'208,217";a="343201269" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 18 Jan 2018 23:04:23 +0000 Received: from [10.156.165.112] ([10.156.165.112]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w0IN4McL003518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Jan 2018 23:04:22 GMT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D24C7A6-2789-41E8-B77B-C3462A1C444A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Naiming Shen (naiming)" In-Reply-To: <2d7d8e4b-8e13-425a-b310-c1528491ef90@Spark> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:04:21 -0800 Cc: Christian Hopps , Les Ginsberg , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "isis-ads@ietf.org" Message-Id: <999AE1CD-7B5E-494C-A169-75FF96EA4720@cisco.com> References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> <5F656212-6108-47D5-B114-BBA4A75B83D8@cisco.com> <2d7d8e4b-8e13-425a-b310-c1528491ef90@Spark> To: Alexander Okonnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 23:04:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5D24C7A6-2789-41E8-B77B-C3462A1C444A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Alexander, That=E2=80=99s true. But we do need to handle when in add operation it = can also come to the acculative number of (2^24-2) or (2^24-1) and which one to use. So this draft defines normal condition only cap at (2^24-2), unless specified by =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit. This way we are consistent = in all the cases. thanks. - Naiming > On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Alexander Okonnikov = > = wrote: >=20 > Hi Naiming, >=20 > Yes, my point is that reverse-metric values 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 are = special-purpose values for which operation =E2=80=9Cset=E2=80=9D should = be applied rather than =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D. For other values (below = 2^24-2) operation =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D is performed with the rule = =E2=80=98min(sum, 2^24-2)=E2=80=99. >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Best regards, > Alexander Okonnikov >=20 > 18 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 21:30 +0300, Naiming Shen = (naiming) >, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81= =D0=B0=D0=BB: >>=20 >> Hi Alexander, >>=20 >> As mentioned, the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 is an =E2=80=98Offse= t metric=E2=80=99, and it=E2=80=99s accumulative on the receiving >> end. So when you send (2^24-2) over, unless the other side is = configured on interface of >> IS-IS metric of zero (which is the case on Pnode), then you are not = going to deterministically >> for the case of (2^24-2) vs (2^24-1) as a result. The =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99= bit is for setting that top limit for neighbor. >> Thus in the mobility use case, without knowing the other side = configured metric, this side >> can do =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=982=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98etc=E2=80=99 = to gradually increase the =E2=80=9Cinbound=E2=80=9D metric towards = itself. >>=20 >> If this were an =E2=80=98absolute=E2=80=99 value for the other side = to install regardless of their configured metric, >> then you are right.=20 >>=20 >> thanks. >> - Naiming >>=20 >>> On Jan 18, 2018, at 1:50 AM, Alexander Okonnikov = > = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Naiming, >>>=20 >>> For signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link we = don't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or = TE reverse metric is 2^24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to = 2^24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling = via U-bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware = about unreachability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the = link for IGP and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do = without U-bit. One detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit = signals that both metrics (IGP and TE) should be maximized, = irrespectively to values of metrics in Offset field and in TE Default = Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be present at all). >>>=20 >>> This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value = must not exceed 2^24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled = using 24-bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values = greater than 2^24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than = 2^24-1, it should be set by receiver to 2^24-1, like it is being done = for 'last resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value = must not be greater than 2^24-2. >>>=20 >>> Follow is my proposal in examples without U-bit: >>>=20 >>> 1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-2. TE reverse metric is = not advertised or advertised with value 0. >>> Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP forward = metric is >=3D1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. >>>=20 >>> 2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-2. Metric Offset value is = 0. >>> Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-2 (even if its TE forward metric = is >=3D1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. >>>=20 >>> 3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-2. >>> Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP and = TE forward metrics are >=3D1). >>>=20 >>> 4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-1. TE reverse metric is = not advertised or advertised with value 0. >>> Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP = forward metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified. >>>=20 >>> 5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-1. Metric Offset value is = 0. >>> Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its TE = forward metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified. >>>=20 >>> 6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE: >>>=20 >>> Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-1. >>> Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to = its IGP and TE forward metrics). >>>=20 >>> Thank you. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82= : >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Alexander, >>>>=20 >>>> The reason we share that =E2=80=98U' bit, first of all, this is a = bit on the link, not in LSP, >>>> unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside knows about = that. >>>> So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the metric for = both IGP and TE >>>> to indicate something for both metric. >>>> 2nd, the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99-bit just indicate the max can be upto = 2^24-1. if the accumulated >>>> metric of configured plus the =E2=80=98reverse=E2=80=99 is >=3D = 2^24-1. If one wants to have >>>> one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy, send in = =E2=80=98reverse-metric' TLV >>>> for the normal metric to be zero, and the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80= =99 TE sub-TLV metric >>>> to be =E2=80=982^24-1=E2=80=99, that will achevie exact the effect, = and set the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit. >>>> The other way around is also the same. >>>>=20 >>>> thanks. >>>> - Naiming >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov = > = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Naiming, Les, Chris, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for = IGP and TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to = modify IGP link properties while left TE link properties intact? U-bit = set says that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on = receiving IS. =46rom CSPF perspective there is no much difference = between TE metrics 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98las= t resort=E2=80=99 but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. For TE metric = manipulation we have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t = need U-bit. For making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric = value 2^24-1 and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will = state that TE metric 2^24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from = CSPF perspective), reverse TE metric 2^24-1 could be specified as = special value for this like it is specified for IGP link. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Alexander Okonnikov >>>>>=20 >>>>> 11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) >, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1= =81=D0=B0=D0=BB: >>>>>> I agree with Naiming on these changes. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Originally I was opposed to the use of max_metric-1 by reverse = metric as with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. = But Naiming has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit = to be effective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His = proposal of being able to optionally set max_metric-1 means that even = routers who do not support reverse_metric will avoid the link in = question simply because they will respond to the large advertised metric = at both ends of the link. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Allowing max_metric-1 means the link can be completely removed = from the IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way. >>>>>> While max_metric-1 is NOT defined as "do not use" for the TE = topology, it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SPF which = considers metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a = backwards compatible way. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I think this is a significant improvement. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of = using the new link attribute bit. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Les >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM >>>>>>> To: Christian Hopps >>>>>>> Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >; isis-wg@ietf.org = ; isis- >>>>>>> ads@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps > wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Naiming Shen (naiming) > writes: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll = probably skip >>>>>>>>> this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added = easily. >>>>>>>>> I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride = on top of >>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Hi Naiming, >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you = would not >>>>>>>> add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just = published a >>>>>>>> new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of = heart? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) = We also removed >>>>>>> the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D of = sub-TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP. >>>>>>> This change is due to several factors: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name = =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D, >>>>>>> which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D= really meant, and >>>>>>> what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This = version 7 borrowed this from OSPF, and >>>>>>> now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CL= ink Overload >>>>>>> Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - More importantly we just realized that, to use this = =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, the >>>>>>> backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other = =E2=80=9Creverse- >>>>>>> metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, if = we have to use this >>>>>>> =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define = the router =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to >>>>>>> advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we = really don=E2=80=99t >>>>>>> want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same = effect of the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit, >>>>>>> since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out = the link as >>>>>>> =E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean time = keep the same backwards >>>>>>> compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean = solution. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since = we have seen >>>>>>> the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments = discussion during the >>>>>>> last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and = mentioned on the list we >>>>>>> wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we = decided that >>>>>>> is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that = is not to handle >>>>>>> the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE = topology to >>>>>>> take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov = [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com = ] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org = >; Christian Hopps >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) >>>>>>> >> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0): >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Alex - >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov = [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com = ] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org = >; Christian Hopps >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) >>>>>>> >> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0): >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Alex - >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> From: Alexander Okonnikov = [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com = ] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-wg@ietf.org = >; Christian Hopps >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi Les, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes = sense again. >>>>>>> In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while = in latter one it is >>>>>>> possible. This is also described in RFC 5305: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> " If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - = 1), this >>>>>>>>> link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. = This >>>>>>>>> will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than = building >>>>>>>>> the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is >>>>>>>>> available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop = routing." >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> [Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - = 1) is in the >>>>>>> context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to = advertise (2^24-1) is >>>>>>> because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes = then this would >>>>>>> already have been done by the neighbor as part of their = configuration =E2=80=93 and >>>>>>> it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. >>>>>>>>> Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link = while preserve >>>>>>> ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need = it - IGP-LDP >>>>>>> sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be = excluded from >>>>>>> IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it = could be done on >>>>>>> LAN. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> [Les:] My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to be = used at all =E2=80=93 even if >>>>>>> only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then you = simply don=E2=80=99t advertise >>>>>>> the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t = advertise the adjacency to >>>>>>> the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that = circuit and no traffic flows >>>>>>> to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not = matter what the >>>>>>> neighbor/DIS is advertising. >>>>>>>>> My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, = but still use it in >>>>>>> other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric = 2^24-1. If >>>>>>> adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all = topologies, not >>>>>>> only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric = functionality >>>>>>> as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> [Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not = and should not >>>>>>> be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the >>>>>>> configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. = It has well >>>>>>> defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should = be limited to >>>>>>> those cases. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> The additional use cases you have suggested can already be = handled by >>>>>>> existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should = always be >>>>>>> the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when = each node >>>>>>> utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other = routers based on >>>>>>> its local view of the current state of convergence is not = something I want to >>>>>>> embrace. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always = possible or is >>>>>>> not desired. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> [Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear = from your >>>>>>> example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 = routers, you >>>>>>> were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link. >>>>>>>>> If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link = at all, then you >>>>>>> need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80=93= in which case the >>>>>>> proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not = help. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> If you think you have a different example that justifies your = proposal I >>>>>>> would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have come = up with isn=E2=80=99t >>>>>>> compelling. >>>>>>>>> Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. >>>>>>>>> [Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80=93= in which case your >>>>>>> example does not apply. >>>>>>>>> Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring = physical >>>>>>> topology. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between = them. But >>>>>>> sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 = routers >>>>>>> between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide = alternative >>>>>>> L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access). >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 = has >>>>>>> reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is = closer to R3 >>>>>>> than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it = is more optimal >>>>>>> from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than = to R2 via R1. It >>>>>>> is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when = we have deal >>>>>>> with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 = are S-PEs >>>>>>> or Hub PEs, respectively. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> [Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. = The topic >>>>>>> here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case = for a node >>>>>>> to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1). >>>>>>>>> Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies = your proposal I >>>>>>> would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on this = use case. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) >>>>>>> >> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0): >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> I strongly disagree with this proposed change. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then = simply don=E2=80=99t >>>>>>> advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases. >>>>>>>>> This is why the draft states >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> =E2=80=9Ca receiver of a >>>>>>>>> Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of = either >>>>>>>>> the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset = value in >>>>>>>>> the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)=E2=80=9D >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> There is no use case for (2^24 - 1). >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify = his proposal, >>>>>>> there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the = L1 link. That >>>>>>> is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but = configure a >>>>>>> larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be = used for L1 traffic >>>>>>> when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use = Reverse-Metric >>>>>>> to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this = extension. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Les >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Naiming >>>>>>>>> Shen (naiming) >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Alexander Okonnikov >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org = >; Christian Hopps >>>>>>>>> >>; >>>>>>>>> isis-ads@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the = =E2=80=98reverse-metric >>>>>>>>> TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the = inbound direction of >>>>>>>>> the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the = peer to >>>>>>> (2^24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80= =99 >>>>>>>>> value in the TLV. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi Naiming, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen = (naiming) >>>>>>> >> =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0= =B0): >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi Alexander, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi authors, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> I have some comments below regarding the draft: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." = Per -07 only >>>>>>> one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 = (implicit signaling >>>>>>> of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero = value. Text >>>>>>> in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed = as well. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> will fix. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link = is used as a link >>>>>>> of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that you = meant regular link >>>>>>> rather than TE link. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section = assumes that >>>>>>> overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. = I.e. it cannot be >>>>>>> excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless = originator of the >>>>>>> TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes = Sub-TLV (RFC 5029) >>>>>>> AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could = be done by >>>>>>> allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value = 2^24-1 which >>>>>>> would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from = topology >>>>>>> completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric = value is between >>>>>>> 0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same = rules for TE >>>>>>> metric. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not = used or last resort >>>>>>> in the use cases we mentioned. >>>>>>>>> also, this metric value is an =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 = being added on top of >>>>>>>>> the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to = make the >>>>>>> reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different = operations. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense = is for >>>>>>>>> IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. = There are >>>>>>>>> three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is = L1-only. >>>>>>>>> R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 = is >>>>>>>>> connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 = and R3 >>>>>>>>> was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not = been >>>>>>>>> established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards = R2's >>>>>>>>> loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session = has >>>>>>>>> not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding = link. >>>>>>>>> But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, = though >>>>>>>>> with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 = replace >>>>>>>>> inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a = result, LDP >>>>>>>>> LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark >>>>>>>>> corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2^24-1), they = would use >>>>>>>>> inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com >>>>>>>> pleted. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or = as last >>>>>>> resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator = uses narrow >>>>>>> metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on = receiving reverse >>>>>>> metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is = "narrow" max- >>>>>>> metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes = that all ISs use >>>>>>> the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the = same time is >>>>>>> not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two = Reverse Metric >>>>>>> TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or = to specify >>>>>>> new flag to mark type of the reverse metric. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run = wide or >>>>>>>>> NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The >>>>>>>>> document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow= =E2=80=99 case. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should = use min(63, >>>>>>> (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If = DIS is >>>>>>> configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS = Reachability >>>>>>> TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is = not obligated >>>>>>> to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in = addition to >>>>>>> Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for = "wide-only" mode. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, = to be >>>>>>> simple. Not to mix them. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case = when TE metric >>>>>>> offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS = must modify its TE >>>>>>> metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would = be >>>>>>> straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't = include TE metric part >>>>>>> then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For = example, >>>>>>> originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP = synchronization >>>>>>> procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE = properties (metric in this >>>>>>> case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse = metric TLV >>>>>>> without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric is = left intact=E2=80=9D. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV = of TE is >>>>>>>>> NS> not received, the TE properties will not change >>>>>>>>> by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE = metric by DIS. >>>>>>> Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into = Extended IS >>>>>>> Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better = to add >>>>>>> explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse = Metric TLV it >>>>>>> should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding = Extended IS >>>>>>> Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other = nodes. >>>>>>> Will try to add some words to that. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5= =D1=82: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hi Ketan, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> thanks for the support and comments. some clarification = inline, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> I support this draft, however would like the following = aspect/scenario >>>>>>> clarified. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link = initiate the >>>>>>> reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos = concurrently). >>>>>>> How are implementations supposed to handle this? Normally the = choice of >>>>>>> metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition = (which need >>>>>>> not just be "overload") on the local router which requires the = neighbour to >>>>>>> use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both = neighbours >>>>>>> initiate this process, it would be good to have the = specification provide a >>>>>>> deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided = may >>>>>>> conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers = simply accept >>>>>>> the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the = original >>>>>>> purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism? >>>>>>>>> When you say if both sides initiated this =E2=80=98reverse = metric=E2=80=99, you >>>>>>>>> implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the = draft. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever = will be called) of >>>>>>>>> this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number = is >>>>>>>>> equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus = the received =E2=80=98reverse >>>>>>>>> metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and both = sides would >>>>>>>>> keep going up until it=E2=80=99s >>>>>>>>> overloaded:-) >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a = =E2=80=98reverse >>>>>>>>> metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading = case, or other >>>>>>>>> cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend on the = other side >>>>>>>>> sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This both = sides sending a >>>>>>>>> =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent to = an operator provisions >>>>>>>>> new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides = of the link at >>>>>>> the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>>>> - Naiming >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Following options come to my mind: >>>>>>>>> a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers = actually >>>>>>>>> apply the reverse metric procedure >>>>>>>>> b) when this condition is detected, the router with = higher/lower >>>>>>>>> system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other >>>>>>>>> withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies) >>>>>>>>> c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric = offset >>>>>>> specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not = signalled but >>>>>>> the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws = their TLV. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions = (where this is >>>>>>> not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to = clarify this >>>>>>> behaviour to ensure interoperability. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Ketan >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of >>>>>>>>> Christian Hopps >>>>>>>>> Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 >>>>>>>>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call = on >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ = >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Chris. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org = >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Isis-wg mailing list >>>>>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg = >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_5D24C7A6-2789-41E8-B77B-C3462A1C444A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Alexander,

That=E2=80=99s true. But = we do need to handle when in add operation it can
also come to the acculative number of (2^24-2) or (2^24-1) = and which
one to use. So this draft defines normal = condition only cap at (2^24-2),
unless specified by = =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit. This way we are consistent in all the = cases.

thanks.
- Naiming
On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Naiming,

Yes, my point is that reverse-metric values 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 are = special-purpose values for which operation =E2=80=9Cset=E2=80=9D should = be applied rather than =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D. For other values (below = 2^24-2) operation =E2=80=9Cadd=E2=80=9D is performed with the rule = =E2=80=98min(sum, 2^24-2)=E2=80=99.

Thank you.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

18 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 21:30 +0300, Naiming Shen (naiming) = <naiming@cisco.com>, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB:

Hi Alexander,

As mentioned, the =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 is an = =E2=80=98Offset metric=E2=80=99, and it=E2=80=99s accumulative on the = receiving
end. So when you send (2^24-2) over, unless the other = side is configured on interface of
IS-IS metric of zero (which is the case on Pnode), then = you are not going to deterministically
for the case of (2^24-2) vs (2^24-1) as a result. The = =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit is for setting that top limit for = neighbor.
Thus in the mobility use case, without knowing the other = side configured metric, this side
can do =E2=80=981=E2=80=99, =E2=80=982=E2=80=99, = =E2=80=98etc=E2=80=99 to gradually increase the =E2=80=9Cinbound=E2=80=9D = metric towards itself.

If this were an =E2=80=98absolute=E2=80=99 value for the = other side to install regardless of their configured metric,
then you are right. 

thanks.
- Naiming

On Jan 18, 2018, at 1:50 AM, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi = Naiming,

For signaling unreachability of the link to ISs outside that link we = don't need utilize U-bit in IIH. When receiving IS observes that IGP or = TE reverse metric is 2^24-1, it sets its operational forward metric to = 2^24-1 as well and signals it in its LSP, without redundant signaling = via U-bit in received IIH. As a consequence, other ISs become aware = about unreachability of the link (in fact about unreachability of the = link for IGP and TE topologies). This is the same I proposed to do = without U-bit. One detail about U-bit I am confused is that U-bit = signals that both metrics (IGP and TE) should be maximized, = irrespectively to values of metrics in Offset field and in TE Default = Metric Sub-TLV (the latter may not be present at all).

This is not needed to allocate new bit to signal that metric value must = not exceed 2^24-1. Values of both kinds of metric are signaled using = 24-bit fields in LSP, so it is not possible to advertise values greater = than 2^24-1. If sum of forward + reverse metric is greater than 2^24-1, = it should be set by receiver to 2^24-1, like it is being done for 'last = resort' mode, described in section 3.1, where metric value must not be = greater than 2^24-2.

Follow is my proposal in examples without U-bit:

1. Originator wishes to make link last resort for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-2. TE reverse metric is not = advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP forward metric = is >=3D1). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

2. Originator wishes to make link last resort for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-2. Metric Offset value is = 0.
Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-2 (even if its TE forward metric is = >=3D1). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

3. Originator wishes to make link last resort for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-2.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-2 (even if its IGP and TE = forward metrics are >=3D1).

4. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for IGP, but not TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset value to 2^24-1. TE reverse metric is not = advertised or advertised with value 0.
Receiver sets its IGP metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its IGP = forward metric). Receiver's TE metric is not modified.

5. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for TE, but not IGP:

Originator sets TE reverse metric to 2^24-1. Metric Offset value is = 0.
Receiver sets its TE metric to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its TE forward = metric). Receiver's IGP metric is not modified.

6. Originator wishes to make link unreachable for both IGP and TE:

Originator sets Metric Offset and TE metric values to 2^24-1.
Receiver sets its IGP and TE metrics to 2^24-1 (irrespectively to its = IGP and TE forward metrics).

Thank = you.


16.01.2018 09:46, Naiming Shen (naiming) = =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:

Hi Alexander,

The reason we share that =E2=80=98U' bit, first of all, = this is a bit on the link, not in LSP,
unless the LSP propagates the meaning, no one outside = knows about that.
So, it is important to have the neighbor to raise the = metric for both IGP and TE
to indicate something for both metric.
2nd, the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99-bit just indicate the max = can be upto 2^24-1. if the accumulated
metric of configured plus the =E2=80=98reverse=E2=80=99 = is >=3D 2^24-1. If one wants to have
one is usable and the other is unusable, that is easy, = send in =E2=80=98reverse-metric' TLV
for the normal metric to be zero, and the = =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TE sub-TLV metric
to be =E2=80=982^24-1=E2=80=99, that will achevie exact = the effect, and set the =E2=80=98U=E2=80=99 bit.
The other way around is also the same.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Jan 15, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Alexander Okonnikov <alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hi Naiming, Les, Chris,

Version -08 specifies new U-bit to be used simultaneously both for IGP = and TE metrics. It seems to be suboptimal. What if the goal is to modify = IGP link properties while left TE link properties intact? U-bit set says = that both - IGP and TE metrics - should be maximized on receiving IS. = =46rom CSPF perspective there is no much difference between TE metrics = 2^24-2 and 2^24-1 - they are both indicate =E2=80=98last resort=E2=80=99 = but still =E2=80=98usable=E2=80=99 link. For TE metric manipulation we = have reverse TE Default Metric Sub-TLV and don=E2=80=99t need U-bit. For = making IGP link unusable we have special reverse-metric value 2^24-1 and = don=E2=80=99t need U-bit as well. If the draft will state that TE metric = 2^24-1 should indicate TE link as unusable (from CSPF perspective), = reverse TE metric 2^24-1 could be specified as special value for this = like it is specified for IGP link.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Alexander Okonnikov

11 =D1=8F=D0=BD=D0=B2. 2018 =D0=B3., 23:45 +0300, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>, =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0= =B0=D0=BB:
I agree with Naiming on these = changes.

Originally I was opposed to the use of max_metric-1 by reverse metric as = with the new bit defined in link attributes there was no need. But = Naiming has pointed out that in order for the new link attribute bit to = be effective all routers have to be upgraded to support it. His proposal = of being able to optionally set max_metric-1 means that even routers who = do not support reverse_metric will avoid the link in question simply = because they will respond to the large advertised metric at both ends of = the link.

Allowing max_metric-1 means the link can be completely removed from the = IGP topology in both directions in a backwards compatible way.
While max_metric-1 is NOT defined as "do not use" for the TE topology, = it does make the link very unattractive to any C-SPF which considers = metric - and so achieves what is desired - again in a backwards = compatible way.

I think this is a significant improvement.

Many thanks to Naiming for realizing all of the downsides of using the = new link attribute bit.

Les


-----Original Message-----
From: Naiming Shen (naiming)
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 12:20 PM
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org
Cc: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; isis-wg@ietf.org; isis-
ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Chris,

On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, = Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote:


Naiming Shen (naiming) <naiming@cisco.com> writes:
=
Hi,

Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we=E2=80=99ll probably = skip
this capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added easily.
I suspect there are a number of other things can be later ride on top = of
this.

Hi Naiming,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you would = not
add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just published = a
new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :)

Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of heart?

Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) We also = removed
the section 3.6 =E2=80=9CLink Overload Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D of sub-TLV = of TLV 22 in the LSP.
This change is due to several factors:

- the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name = =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D,
which has disagreement on what does this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D = really meant, and
what to do if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Coverloaded=E2=80=9D. This version 7 = borrowed this from OSPF, and
now we got requests also to reconsider the name of this =E2=80=9CLink = Overload
Attribute Bit=E2=80=9D

- More importantly we just realized that, to use this =E2=80=9Coverload=E2= =80=9D bit in LSP, the
backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the other = =E2=80=9Creverse-
metric=E2=80=9D feature which is all local to the link. So, if we have = to use this
=E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit in LSP, we have also to define the router = =E2=80=9Ccapabilities=E2=80=9D to
advertise this, and synchronize among area/domain, which we really = don=E2=80=99t
want to do in =E2=80=98reverse-metric'

- Third with this =E2=80=9CU=E2=80=9D bit, it achieves the same effect = of the =E2=80=9Coverload=E2=80=9D bit,
since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out the link = as
=E2=80=98unusable=E2=80=99 for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep = the same backwards
compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very clean solution.

- I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since we have = seen
the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments discussion during = the
last call. and at the time I didn=E2=80=99t think clearly and mentioned = on the list we
wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned reasons, we decided = that
is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason of doing that is not to = handle
the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of use-case, but to support TE topology = to
take the link out just as in the removed section 3.6 in ver 7.

thanks.
- Naiming


Thanks,
Chris.

Regards,
- Naiming

On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> wrote:



From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian = Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,


31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 2:25, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alex -

From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian = Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Les,



31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:48, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

Alex -

From: Alexander Okonnikov [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com
Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>>;
isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian = Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07

Hi Les,

Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes sense = again.
In the former case that link cannot be used for TE LSPs, while in latter = one it is
possible. This is also described in RFC 5305:

" If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 - 1), = this
link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. This
will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than building
the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is
= available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop routing."

[Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - 1) is in = the
context of reverse metric. If the reason that you want to advertise = (2^24-1) is
because the link is only supposed to be used for TE purposes then this = would
already have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration = =E2=80=93 and
it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup.
Idea was to temporarily disable IP = forwarding on the link while preserve
ability to use link for other transport. An example when we need it - = IGP-LDP
sync. If you configure 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be = excluded from
IP topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it could be = done on
LAN.


[Les:] My point is =E2=80=93 if you do not want the link to be used at = all =E2=80=93 even if
only while waiting for LDP sync to complete =E2=80=93 then you simply = don=E2=80=99t advertise
the adjacency. In the case of the LAN you don=E2=80=99t advertise the = adjacency to
the DIS =E2=80=93 so there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and = no traffic flows
to/from the node via the interface in question. It does not matter what = the
neighbor/DIS is advertising.
My point - to have ability to = exclude link from IP topology, but still use it in
other topologies. This could be done by advertising metric 2^24-1. If
adjacency is not advertised, then that link is excluded from all = topologies, not
only from IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric = functionality
as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it deliberately.

[Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not and = should not
be a general purpose mechanism to have one node override the
configuration of its neighbors for any and all possible reasons. It has = well
defined use cases which the draft describes and its use should be = limited to
those cases.

The additional use cases you have suggested can already be handled by
existing mechanisms which are local to each node and that should always = be
the preferred means. The potential for chaos that results when each = node
utilizes this mechanism to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers based = on
its local view of the current state of convergence is not something I = want to
embrace.

Les



Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always possible = or is
not desired.

[Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear from = your
example that although L2 only was enabled between the L1/L2 routers, = you
were allowing intra-area traffic to flow over that link.
If you do not want intra-area = traffic to flow over that link at all, then you
need to insure that L1 destinations are not leaked into L2 =E2=80=93 in = which case the
proposed change you are suggesting for reverse-metric would not help.

If you think you have a different example that justifies your proposal = I
would be happy to review it =E2=80=93 but the one you have come up with = isn=E2=80=99t
compelling.
Two L1/L2 routers could be = geographically dispersed.
[Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas =E2=80=93 in = which case your
example does not apply.
Not necessary. There could be area = represented by sub-ring physical
topology.


There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between them. But
sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on all transit L2 = routers
between two ones. Also, for redundancy you will need to provide = alternative
L1 path in the core (to avoid routing traffic via access).

Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 has
reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and R2 is closer = to R3
than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 to R2 is broken, it is more = optimal
from data path perspective to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 = via R1. It
is not case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we have = deal
with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, where R1 and R2 are = S-PEs
or Hub PEs, respectively.

[Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. The = topic
here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there is a use case for a = node
to tell its neighbor to advertise max-metric (2^24-1).
Please stay on topic. If you have = an example that justifies your proposal I
would like to hear it =E2=80=93 but please stay focused on this use = case.

Les



Les

Thank you.




31 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 1:33, Les Ginsberg = (ginsberg)
<ginsberg@cisco.com<mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com>> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):

I strongly disagree with this proposed change.

If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then simply = don=E2=80=99t
advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P and LAN cases.
This is why the draft states

=E2=80=9Ca receiver of a
Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of either
the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset value in
the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)=E2=80=9D

There is no use case for (2^24 - 1).

As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify his = proposal,
there is a much better way to prevent the premature use of the L1 link. = That
is to enable L1 on the link between the two L1L2 routers but configure = a
larger metric (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for = L1 traffic
when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need to use = Reverse-Metric
to do so and I believe this is an inappropriate use of this = extension.

Les


From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Naiming
Shen (naiming)
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM
To: Alexander Okonnikov

<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com

Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>; Christian = Hopps
<chopps@chopps.org<mailto:chopps@chopps.org>>;
isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for
draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


Hi Alex,

Ok. We=E2=80=99ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the = =E2=80=98reverse-metric
TLV=E2=80=99, to indicate the originator requesting the inbound = direction of
the link not to be used and the metric should be raised by the peer = to
(2^24 - 1) regardless the value of the =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99
value in the TLV.

thanks.
- Naiming

On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi Naiming,





29 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2017 =D0=B3., =D0=B2 6:10, Naiming Shen = (naiming)
<naiming@cisco.com<mailto:naiming@cisco.com>> = =D0=BD=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0):


Hi Alexander,

Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline.





On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov
<alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com<mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi authors,


I have some comments below regarding the draft:


1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." Per -07 = only
one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since version -06 (implicit = signaling
of presence of Sub-TLVs is used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero value. = Text
in the beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as = well.

NS> will fix.






2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link is used = as a link
of last resort during SPF computation, ..." I guess that you meant = regular link
rather than TE link.

3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section assumes = that
overloaded link will always be considered as last-resort link. I.e. it = cannot be
excluded from topology (as link with metric 2^24-1), unless originator = of the
TLV sets appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (RFC = 5029)
AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative it could be done = by
allowing for originator to specify reverse metric special value 2^24-1 = which
would indicate to receivers that the link is to be excluded from = topology
completely rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is = between
0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path calculation. The same rules = for TE
metric.


NS> I don=E2=80=99t see there is much difference between not used or = last resort
in the use cases we mentioned.
also, this metric value is an = =E2=80=98offset metric=E2=80=99 being added on top of
the existing local metric. It would not be always feasible to make = the
reverse-metric off by one to mean two completely different = operations.

One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense is for
IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS domain. There are
three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 ISs, and R3 is L1-only.
R1 and R2 are connected to each other via L2 circuit, and R3 is
connected to R1 and R2 via L1 circuits. The link between R2 and R3
was broken and now is being restored. While adjacency has not been
established on failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's
loopback. Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has
not yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link.
But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, though
with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 and R3 replace
inter-area routes to each other by intra-area ones. As a result, LDP
LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, if two routers mark
= corresponding link as unusable (with metric 2^24-1), they would use
inter-area routes until IGP-LDP sync will be com
pleted.

An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or as = last
resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC 6138.










4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator uses = narrow
metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. But on receiving = reverse
metric with such value receivers have no idea whether this is "narrow" = max-
metric or offset 63 for "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes that all = ISs use
the same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same time = is
not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define two Reverse = Metric
TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS Reachability TLV. Or to = specify
new flag to mark type of the reverse metric.


NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run wide = or
NS> narrow. It can not be fixed. The
document is trying to be complete to mention the =E2=80=98narrow=E2=80=99 = case.






5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should use = min(63,
(Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing pseudonode LSP. If DIS is
configured for using "wide" metric-type, it will use Extended IS = Reachability
TLVs for describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not = obligated
to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode LSP (in addition = to
Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is configured for "wide-only" = mode.

NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, to = be
simple. Not to mix them.






6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case when TE = metric
offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, receiving IS must modify = its TE
metric by adding IGP reverse metric value. In my mind, it would be
straightforward to use follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE = metric part
then it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For = example,
originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of IGP-LDP = synchronization
procedure (section 3.5). It is not reason to impact TE properties = (metric in this
case) of the link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric = TLV
without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric is left = intact=E2=80=9D.

NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV of TE = is
NS> not received, the TE properties will not change
by receiving this =E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 TLV.






7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE metric by = DIS.
Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE Sub-TLVs into Extended IS
Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. May be it would be better to add
explicit text that: if DIS receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric = TLV it
should update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding Extended = IS
Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not present there.

NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other = nodes.
Will try to add some words to that.

thanks.
- Naiming







Thanks!


30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:



Hi Ketan,

thanks for the support and comments. some clarification inline,





On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
<ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I support this draft, however would like the following = aspect/scenario
clarified.

Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link initiate = the
reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in their hellos = concurrently).
How are implementations supposed to handle this? Normally the choice = of
metric conveyed via this TLV is based on a particular condition (which = need
not just be "overload") on the local router which requires the neighbour = to
use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. So when both = neighbours
initiate this process, it would be good to have the specification = provide a
deterministic behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may
conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers simply = accept
the value supplied by their neighbour, it may not achieve the = original
purpose/design of this triggering this mechanism?
When you say if both sides = initiated this =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99, you
implied there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft.

The value of this =E2=80=98metric offset=E2=80=99 (or whatever will be = called) of
this TLV, is just a number. The draft does not say this number is
equal to the configured =E2=80=98metric=E2=80=99 value plus the received = =E2=80=98reverse
metrc=E2=80=99 value, that would be non-deterministic and both sides = would
keep going up until it=E2=80=99s
overloaded:-)

Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a =E2=80=98reverse
metric=E2=80=99 over the link, either in link-overloading case, or = other
cases. It=E2=80=99s a static number, it does not depend on the other = side
sending a =E2=80=98reverse metric=E2=80=99 or not. This both sides = sending a
=E2=80=98reverse-metric=E2=80=99 over a link is equivalent to an = operator provisions
new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides of the = link at
the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this.

thanks.
- Naiming





Following options come to my mind:
a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers actually
apply the reverse metric procedure
b) when this condition is detected, the router with higher/lower
system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins and the other
withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) applies)
c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric offset
specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric is not signalled = but
the offset) which determines the "winner" so the other withdraws their = TLV.

Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions (where this = is
not an issue), it may be necessary for the specification to clarify = this
behaviour to ensure interoperability.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of
Christian Hopps
Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13
To: isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org
Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org<mailto:isis-ads@ietf.org
Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07


The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call on

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-= reverse-metric/

which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100.

Thanks,
Chris.

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg=

_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg=
_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org<mailto:Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg=


_______________________________________________
Isis-wg mailing list
Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg=

_______________________________________________
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Isis-wg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg=




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I am working on the initial charter for the LSR WG, which = will combine the=C2=A0
OSPF and ISIS WGs.=C2=A0 At this time, I do not = see moving the fast-reroute work
from RTGWG, but I am willing to = hear opinions.

In general, feedback on what areas = should be the initial focus or specific=C2=A0
concerns on scoping= would be useful.=C2=A0 My basic plan is for a broad charter focused
<= div>on maintenance, usage scenarios, and extensions - much as OSPF and ISIS= are
chartered today.

I would like to ha= ve this on the February 8 IESG telechat, so rapid feedback and reviews
of the proposed charter when it is sent out would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alia
--001a11c17f5447fb1e056374c963-- From nobody Wed Jan 24 03:32:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F29120454; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 03:32:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.539 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=5, RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT=1.449, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10ViI0Ty4tjm; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 03:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6032912DA3F; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 03:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dap.chopps.org (24-247-65-170.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com [24.247.65.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D22B662A03; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 11:32:29 +0000 (UTC) References: <87375fp3hv.fsf@chopps.org> <7185dbc2d3f34b9ea844ddef95b6278c@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <481C1CEE-A8B4-4034-B016-D2673296E96B@cisco.com> <700e8fed-40fc-cb1a-1ae3-f8401f167aae@gmail.com> <2F941D6B-0F3F-482F-A6A6-31153FA6D311@gmail.com> <4E92E297-A6CA-4635-A60D-362C0AD864D7@gmail.com> <69982e54510942eeb3523d5a7de63fa6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <1A958D80-C689-447A-96ED-5AA365F2AF14@cisco.com> <87a7xk7nwg.fsf@chopps.org> <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.0-alpha2; emacs 25.3.1 From: Christian Hopps To: "Naiming Shen \(naiming\)" Cc: Les Ginsberg , "isis-wg\@ietf.org" , "isis-ads\@ietf.org" In-reply-to: <63627BFC-62F7-479D-B2EF-C6A7453CE6C5@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 06:32:28 -0500 Message-ID: <87efmfjxv7.fsf@chopps.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 11:32:35 -0000 Here are my comments on -08. The most important one would be the M-ISIS discrepancy. - 3.1 " If an IS-IS router is configured to originate a TE Default Metric sub-TLV for a link, but receives a Reverse Metric TLV from its neighbor that does not contain a TE Default Metric sub-TLV, then the IS-IS router MUST NOT change the value of its TE Default Metric sub- TLV for that link." - so this is a reversal from -07, where it said it MUST add the metric offset value to the TE default metric. Note this is also not updated in M-ISIS section. - 3.1 "Routers MUST scan the Metric Offset value and TE sub-TLVs in all subsequently received Reverse Metric TLVs. If changes are observed by a receiver of the Reverse Metric TLV in the Metric Offset value or TE Default Metric sub-TLV value, the receiving router MUST update its advertised IS-IS default metric or Traffic Engineering parameters in the appropriate TLVs, recompute its SPF tree and flood new LSPs to other IS-IS routers. - I don't like this, why do we have to say, "pay attention to and act on updates to the value?" When do we *not* do this in routing protocols? - If we keep this text, change to "subsequently received IIH" as one might read this meaning that we accept multiple TLVs per IIH which we don't. - 3.2 "The Reverse Metric TLV is applicable to Multi-Topology IS-IS (M-ISIS) [RFC5120] capable point-to-point links. If an IS-IS router is configured for M-ISIS it MUST send only a single Reverse Metric TLV in IIH PDUs toward its neighbor(s) on the designated link that is about to undergo maintenance." - There are other reasons to set the reverse metric (e.g., high BER on receive). - 3.2 "If an M-ISIS router is configured to advertise TE Default Metric sub-TLVs for one or more topologies, but does not receive a TE Default Metric sub-TLV in a Reverse Metric TLV, then the M-ISIS router MUST add the value in Metric Offset field of the Reverse Metric TLV to each of the TE Default Metric sub-TLVs for all topologies. The M-ISIS should flood its newly updated MT IS TLVs and recompute its SPF/CSPF accordingly." - This is opposite the changed behavior described in 3.1. - 3.4 P2P change says "Must Add" and removed the text about not going to overload-max value. (2^24-1), should probably say "must add according to the rules found in 3.1? Thanks, Chris. Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: > Hi Chris, > >> On Jan 11, 2018, at 1:19 AM, Christian Hopps >> wrote: >> >> >> Naiming Shen (naiming) writes: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sounds reasonable. At this stage of the draft, we’ll probably >>> skip this >>> capability. If it is found needed later, it can be added >>> easily. I suspect >>> there are a number of other things can be later ride on top of >>> this. >> >> Hi Naiming, >> >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying here that you >> would not >> add the 2^24-1 functionality? I'm asking b/c you also just >> published a >> new version -08 that appears to add this functionality. :) >> >> Was there any off-list discussion that led to the change of >> heart? > > Actually, this is not really a new functionality of the draft:-) > We also removed the section 3.6 “Link Overload Attribute Bit” of > sub-TLV of TLV 22 in the LSP. This change is due to several > factors: > > - the long discusion ongoing of OSPF mailing list of the name > “overload”, > which has disagreement on what does this “overload” really > meant, > and what to do if it’s “overloaded”. This version 7 borrowed > this from > OSPF, and now we got requests also to reconsider the name of > this > “Link Overload Attribute Bit” > > - More importantly we just realized that, to use this “overload” > bit in LSP, > the backwards compatibility is not possible anymore, as in the > other > “reverse-metric” feature which is all local to the link. So, if > we have to > use this “overload” bit in LSP, we have also to define the > router > “capabilities” to advertise this, and synchronize among > area/domain, > which we really don’t want to do in ‘reverse-metric' > > - Third with this “U” bit, it achieves the same effect of the > “overload” bit, > since the neighbor can optionally set the (2^24-1) and take out > the > link as ‘unusable’ for IGP or TE, while at the mean time keep > the same > backwards compatibility in the area/domain, which is a very > clean solution. > > - I have had long email/chat discussion on this with Les, since > we have > seen the email, this (2^24-1) has been part of the comments > discussion > during the last call. and at the time I didn’t think clearly and > mentioned on > the list we wouldn't do that, but with all the above mentioned > reasons, > we decided that is the right way to go. As mentioned, the reason > of doing > that is not to handle the multi-area LDP/IGP sync kind of > use-case, but > to support TE topology to take the link out just as in the > removed > section 3.6 in ver 7. > > thanks. > - Naiming > >> >> Thanks, >> Chris. >> >>> Regards, >>> - Naiming >>> >>> On Dec 30, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Alexander Okonnikov >>> [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:34 PM >>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > >>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>> >; >>> isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >>> >; >>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>> >>> Les, >>> >>> >>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 2:25, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > написал(а): >>> >>> Alex - >>> >>> From: Alexander Okonnikov >>> [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 3:06 PM >>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > >>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>> >; >>> isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >>> >; >>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>> >>> Les, >>> >>> >>> >>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:48, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > написал(а): >>> >>> Alex - >>> >>> From: Alexander Okonnikov >>> [mailto:alexander.okonnikov@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 2:38 PM >>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > >>> Cc: Naiming Shen (naiming) >>> >; >>> isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >>> >; >>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>> >>> Hi Les, >>> >>> Don't advertise link and advertise it with metric 2^24-1 makes >>> sense again. In the former case that link cannot be used for >>> TE LSPs, while in latter one it is possible. This is also >>> described in RFC 5305: >>> >>> " If a link is advertised with the maximum link metric (2^24 >>> - 1), this >>> link MUST NOT be considered during the normal SPF computation. >>> This >>> will allow advertisement of a link for purposes other than >>> building >>> the normal Shortest Path Tree. An example is a link that is >>> available for traffic engineering, but not for hop-by-hop >>> routing." >>> >>> [Les:] I am well aware of this. My comment regarding (2^24 - >>> 1) is in the context of reverse metric. If the reason that you >>> want to advertise (2^24-1) is because the link is only >>> supposed to be used for TE purposes then this would already >>> have been done by the neighbor as part of their configuration >>> – and it has nothing to do with adjacency bringup. >>> Idea was to temporarily disable IP forwarding on the link >>> while preserve ability to use link for other transport. An >>> example when we need it - IGP-LDP sync. If you configure >>> 2^24-1 on the neighbor, then link will be excluded from IP >>> topology permanently. Also, it is not clear for me how it >>> could be done on LAN. >>> >>> >>> [Les:] My point is – if you do not want the link to be used at >>> all – even if only while waiting for LDP sync to complete – >>> then you simply don’t advertise the adjacency. In the case of >>> the LAN you don’t advertise the adjacency to the DIS – so >>> there is no 2-way connectivity on that circuit and no traffic >>> flows to/from the node via the interface in question. It does >>> not matter what the neighbor/DIS is advertising. >>> My point - to have ability to exclude link from IP topology, >>> but still use it in other topologies. This could be done by >>> advertising metric 2^24-1. If adjacency is not advertised, >>> then that link is excluded from all topologies, not only from >>> IP. In general my proposal is to make reverse-metric >>> functionality as flexible as possible and to don't restrict it >>> deliberately. >>> >>> [Les:] This is exactly what I object to. Reverse-metric is not >>> and should not be a general purpose mechanism to have one node >>> override the configuration of its neighbors for any and all >>> possible reasons. It has well defined use cases which the >>> draft describes and its use should be limited to those cases. >>> >>> The additional use cases you have suggested can already be >>> handled by existing mechanisms which are local to each node >>> and that should always be the preferred means. The potential >>> for chaos that results when each node utilizes this mechanism >>> to adjust the SPF outcome on other routers based on its local >>> view of the current state of convergence is not something I >>> want to embrace. >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >>> >>> Regarding L1 circuit between L1/L2 routers - it is not always >>> possible or is not desired. >>> >>> [Les:] I was covering the example you provided. It was clear >>> from your example that although L2 only was enabled between >>> the L1/L2 routers, you were allowing intra-area traffic to >>> flow over that link. >>> If you do not want intra-area traffic to flow over that link >>> at all, then you need to insure that L1 destinations are not >>> leaked into L2 – in which case the proposed change you are >>> suggesting for reverse-metric would not help. >>> >>> If you think you have a different example that justifies your >>> proposal I would be happy to review it – but the one you have >>> come up with isn’t compelling. >>> Two L1/L2 routers could be geographically dispersed. >>> [Les:] Only if the L1/L2 routers are in different areas – in >>> which case your example does not apply. >>> Not necessary. There could be area represented by sub-ring >>> physical topology. >>> >>> >>> There could be L2 subdomain which provides L2 path between >>> them. But sometimes it is not optimal to configure L1/L2 on >>> all transit L2 routers between two ones. Also, for redundancy >>> you will need to provide alternative L1 path in the core (to >>> avoid routing traffic via access). >>> >>> Another case, when having looped L1 is not desired - when R3 >>> has reachability to the network via two ABRs (R1 and R2), and >>> R2 is closer to R3 than R1 to R3. In case link (path) from R3 >>> to R2 is broken, it is more optimal from data path perspective >>> to reroute traffic to R1 rather than to R2 via R1. It is not >>> case for regular IP routing, but becomes sensitive when we >>> have deal with L2VPN services, such that MS-PW or H-VPLS, >>> where R1 and R2 are S-PEs or Hub PEs, respectively. >>> >>> [Les:] We are not discussing all possible network topologies. >>> The topic here is the Reverse-Metric draft and whether there >>> is a use case for a node to tell its neighbor to advertise >>> max-metric (2^24-1). >>> Please stay on topic. If you have an example that justifies >>> your proposal I would like to hear it – but please stay >>> focused on this use case. >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >>> >>> Les >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 31 дек. 2017 г., в 1:33, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) >>> > написал(а): >>> >>> I strongly disagree with this proposed change. >>> >>> If you want to take the link totally out of the topology then >>> simply don’t advertise the adjacency. This works for both P2P >>> and LAN cases. >>> This is why the draft states >>> >>> “a receiver of a >>> Reverse Metric TLV MUST use the numerically smallest value of >>> either >>> the sum of its existing default metric and the Metric Offset >>> value in >>> the Reverse Metric TLV or (2^24 - 2)” >>> >>> There is no use case for (2^24 - 1). >>> >>> As for the L1/L2 example topology that Alex used to justify >>> his proposal, there is a much better way to prevent the >>> premature use of the L1 link. That is to enable L1 on the link >>> between the two L1L2 routers but configure a larger metric >>> (e.g. 100000) so that the L1/L2 link will only be used for L1 >>> traffic when there is no viable L1 only link. There is no need >>> to use Reverse-Metric to do so and I believe this is an >>> inappropriate use of this extension. >>> >>> Les >>> >>> >>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>> Naiming Shen (naiming) >>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 11:59 AM >>> To: Alexander Okonnikov >>> > >>> Cc: isis-wg@ietf.org; Christian Hopps >>> >; >>> isis-ads@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>> >>> >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>> Ok. We’ll add a bit to the flag (the 2nd bit) of the >>> ‘reverse-metric TLV’, to indicate >>> the originator requesting the inbound direction of the link >>> not to be used and the >>> metric should be raised by the peer to (2^24 - 1) regardless >>> the value of the ‘offset metric’ >>> value in the TLV. >>> >>> thanks. >>> - Naiming >>> >>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Naiming, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 29 дек. 2017 г., в 6:10, Naiming Shen (naiming) >>> > написал(а): >>> >>> >>> Hi Alexander, >>> >>> Thanks for the comments, see more replies inline. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:24 AM, Alexander Okonnikov >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi authors, >>> >>> >>> I have some comments below regarding the draft: >>> >>> >>> 1) Section 2: "There is currently only two Flag bits defined." >>> Per -07 only one flag is defined. S flag was deprecated since >>> version -06 (implicit signaling of presence of Sub-TLVs is >>> used via "Sub-TLV Len" field non-zero value. Text in the >>> beginning of the chapter 2 about flag S is to be removed as >>> well. >>> >>> NS> will fix. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) Section 3.1: "In order to ensure that an individual TE link >>> is used as a link of last resort during SPF computation, ..." >>> I guess that you meant regular link rather than TE link. >>> >>> 3) For the same section: Per my understanding, this section >>> assumes that overloaded link will always be considered as >>> last-resort link. I.e. it cannot be excluded from topology (as >>> link with metric 2^24-1), unless originator of the TLV sets >>> appropriate bit in corresponding Link Attributes Sub-TLV (RFC >>> 5029) AND receiving ISs support that Sub-TLV. As alternative >>> it could be done by allowing for originator to specify reverse >>> metric special value 2^24-1 which would indicate to receivers >>> that the link is to be excluded from topology completely >>> rather than used as last resort. If reverse metric value is >>> between 0 - 2^24-2 then link could be used in path >>> calculation. The same rules for TE metric. >>> >>> >>> NS> I don’t see there is much difference between not used or >>> last resort in the use cases we mentioned. >>> also, this metric value is an ‘offset metric’ being added on >>> top of the existing local metric. It would not >>> be always feasible to make the reverse-metric off by one to >>> mean two completely different operations. >>> >>> One use case when unusable link vs last resort one makes sense >>> is for IGP-LDP sync. Let's assume we have two-level IS-IS >>> domain. There are three ISs in the domain: R1 and R2 are L1/L2 >>> ISs, and R3 is L1-only. R1 and R2 are connected to each other >>> via L2 circuit, and R3 is connected to R1 and R2 via L1 >>> circuits. The link between R2 and R3 was broken and now is >>> being restored. While adjacency has not been established on >>> failed link, R3 has inter-area route towards R2's loopback. >>> Once adjacency has been established, but LDP session has not >>> yet, R3 and R2 maximize metric (2^24-2) on corresponding link. >>> But now R2 and R3 have routes to each other as L1 intra-area, >>> though with max metric. Because L1 intra-area route wins, R2 >>> and R3 replace inter-area routes to each other by intra-area >>> ones. As a result, LDP LSPs are blackholed. On the other hand, >>> if two routers mark corresponding link as unusable (with >>> metric 2^24-1), they would use inter-area routes until IGP-LDP >>> sync will be com >> pleted. >>> >>> An IS can make decision on whether to mark link as unusable or >>> as last resort, using the same principle as proposed in RFC >>> 6138. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 4) For the same section: The draft says that if originator >>> uses narrow metric-type, it should use value 63 as max-metric. >>> But on receiving reverse metric with such value receivers have >>> no idea whether this is "narrow" max-metric or offset 63 for >>> "wide" metric. I.e. the draft assumes that all ISs use the >>> same type of metric, and using of two metric types at the same >>> time is not covered. May be it would be appropriate to define >>> two Reverse Metric TLVs, like IS Neighbors TLV and Extended IS >>> Reachability TLV. Or to specify new flag to mark type of the >>> reverse metric. >>> >>> >>> NS> to be simple, we have to assume a network is either run >>> wide or narrow. It can not be fixed. The >>> document is trying to be complete to mention the ‘narrow’ >>> case. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 5) For the same section: It is not clear for me why DIS should >>> use min(63, (Metric + Reverse Metric)) while composing >>> pseudonode LSP. If DIS is configured for using "wide" >>> metric-type, it will use Extended IS Reachability TLVs for >>> describing its neighbors. Moreover, in this case DIS is not >>> obligated to still insert IS Neighbors TLVs in its Pseudonode >>> LSP (in addition to Extended IS Reachability TLVs) when it is >>> configured for "wide-only" mode. >>> >>> NS> agreed. will remove this, to keep the same goal as above, >>> to be simple. Not to mix them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 6) For the same section: It is not clear for me why in case >>> when TE metric offset is not advertised in Reverse Metric TLV, >>> receiving IS must modify its TE metric by adding IGP reverse >>> metric value. In my mind, it would be straightforward to use >>> follow rule: if originator doesn't include TE metric part then >>> it doesn't wish to overload TE link, but only IGP link. For >>> example, originator advertises Reverse metric TLV as part of >>> IGP-LDP synchronization procedure (section 3.5). It is not >>> reason to impact TE properties (metric in this case) of the >>> link. Hence, originator could advertise Reverse metric TLV >>> without TE metric Sub-TLV, in order to signal that "TE metric >>> is left intact”. >>> >>> NS> sounds resonable. Will change this to say if the sub-TLV >>> of TE is not received, the TE properties will not change >>> by receiving this ‘reverse-metric’ TLV. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 7) Section 3.3: The draft is not clear about handling of TE >>> metric by DIS. Usually DIS implementations don't insert TE >>> Sub-TLVs into Extended IS Reachability TLVs in Pseudonode LSP. >>> May be it would be better to add explicit text that: if DIS >>> receives TE metric Sub-TLV in Reverse Metric TLV it should >>> update TE Default Metric Sub-TLV value of corresponding >>> Extended IS Reachability TLV OR insert new one if it was not >>> present there. >>> >>> NS> To me, there is not much difference between DIS and other >>> nodes. Will try to add some words to that. >>> >>> thanks. >>> - Naiming >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>> 30.11.2017 01:47, Naiming Shen (naiming) пишет: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ketan, >>> >>> thanks for the support and comments. some clarification >>> inline, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I support this draft, however would like the following >>> aspect/scenario clarified. >>> >>> Consider the scenario where both the neighbours on a p2p link >>> initiate the reverse metric procedure (i.e. include the TLV in >>> their hellos concurrently). How are implementations supposed >>> to handle this? Normally the choice of metric conveyed via >>> this TLV is based on a particular condition (which need not >>> just be "overload") on the local router which requires the >>> neighbour to use shift to using the reverse metric supplied. >>> So when both neighbours initiate this process, it would be >>> good to have the specification provide a deterministic >>> behaviour since the reverse metric values provided may >>> conflict in certain "non-overload" conditions. If both routers >>> simply accept the value supplied by their neighbour, it may >>> not achieve the original purpose/design of this triggering >>> this mechanism? >>> When you say if both sides initiated this ‘reverse metric’, >>> you implied >>> there is a timing issue with this procedure in the draft. >>> >>> The value of this ‘metric offset’ (or whatever will be called) >>> of this TLV, >>> is just a number. The draft does not say this number is equal >>> to the >>> configured ‘metric’ value plus the received ‘reverse metrc’ >>> value, that >>> would be non-deterministic and both sides would keep going up >>> until it’s >>> overloaded:-) >>> >>> Each side of IS-IS link decides if it needs to send a ‘reverse >>> metric’ over the link, >>> either in link-overloading case, or other cases. It’s a static >>> number, it does not >>> depend on the other side sending a ‘reverse metric’ or not. >>> This both sides >>> sending a ‘reverse-metric’ over a link is equivalent to an >>> operator provisions >>> new metric (say both plus 10 to the old metric) on both sides >>> of the link at >>> the same time, there is no non-determinitic thing in this. >>> >>> thanks. >>> - Naiming >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Following options come to my mind: >>> a) when this condition is detected, none of the routers >>> actually apply the reverse metric procedure >>> b) when this condition is detected, the router with >>> higher/lower system-id value (or some such tiebreaker) wins >>> and the other withdraws its reverse metric (until then (a) >>> applies) >>> c) some mechanism/rule that is based on the value of metric >>> offset specified perhaps (made harder since the actual metric >>> is not signalled but the offset) which determines the "winner" >>> so the other withdraws their TLV. >>> >>> Since the mechanism is not specific to overload conditions >>> (where this is not an issue), it may be necessary for the >>> specification to clarify this behaviour to ensure >>> interoperability. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ketan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>> Christian Hopps >>> Sent: 16 November 2017 04:13 >>> To: isis-wg@ietf.org >>> Cc: isis-ads@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Isis-wg] WG Last Call for >>> draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07 >>> >>> >>> The authors have asked for and we are starting a WG Last Call >>> on >>> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric/ >>> >>> which will last an extended 3 weeks to allow for IETF100. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Chris. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Isis-wg mailing list >>> Isis-wg@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Wed Jan 24 08:10:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: isis-wg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C698126C26; 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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:10:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.182.239 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:10:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20170718093542.GL773745@eidolon> References: <87d1i34dgr.fsf@chopps.org> <20170718093542.GL773745@eidolon> From: Tony Przygienda Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:10:13 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lamparter Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , Babel at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08220f1858766e056387e8c2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] WG adoption of draft-baker-ipv6-isis-dst-src-routing-06 X-BeenThere: isis-wg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:10:57 -0000 --089e08220f1858766e056387e8c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Last I remember was that you had still some holes in the preference rules you wrote (as in, this thing may loop in this cornercase) but they were managable by now (i.e. the draft needs minor prunning on too much flexibility you gave things and then will work) but I'd need to swap my memory from disk (more like tape now) in ... If that goes to adoption I'll do that ... having said all that and having gone the curve full way with BABEL, for the full disclosure I observe that src-dst routing is _massively_ simpler to achieve with it from protocol perspective except that the lookup problem is still the hard part AFAIR last discussions I had on it ... --- tony On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 2:35 AM, David Lamparter wrote: > Hello IS-IS folks, > > > so, I've unfortunately dropped the ball on this (had some health issues, > but really I'm just bad at IETF interactions). I'd like to apologize > for that and am certainly working to improve. > > Having just sat through a v6ops presentation of Microsoft's setup for > their enterprise cloud products relying on multihomed IPv6 setups with > distinct source prefixes pushed to clients, I'm re-motivated that this > is a draft worth pushing to RFC -- this is after similar signaling from > Google. > Hence, question #1: I strongly believe we have the input there that > this will see deployment in IS-IS in enterprise setups. Certainly not > all of them, but enough to be significant. Les, does this address your > concerns on actual deployment? (Does any