From nobody Thu Jan 3 08:44:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8450313116D for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 08:44:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5XF6M9XIGngk for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 08:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52b.google.com (mail-pg1-x52b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E35CD131169 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52b.google.com with SMTP id w7so16203682pgp.13 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=oyEHS48tVAOKV01DIfEZcN+LoBVieajNlefCkiGE8Ys=; b=SYWoCw5+M1mt34S5NaxWCSKDm1QFsZJger+hF9aovtc0aMR+yXLqpXsJfV8gHjW1t4 MCSCvBwtut3jMBSY46SvlAcyPSNqIdiqmlRIrrWR+eEwxL//pl+402hDZqcIGMJZDgly uXcsdxpDGuv7pG7q7+3ep38lp4He6JQvig4/zVM8ssUjKblkccgmEb7YOIPx3n+Qp8dz t4Y5IaS/Df4a4R5DlNW/29UUaB8r3jdvDpz69L8SZuOV8oacsMOSXeCGpC/FL+AqxxEm GqWK6ZIdrA2TA/5YCRdxJMZayZMzjTErgik4KY19Z0TGQ6soN3HtOvm08UjcyelbNaPG 4XOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=oyEHS48tVAOKV01DIfEZcN+LoBVieajNlefCkiGE8Ys=; b=jphXPrbLyfEutXDDJiv+0MZBMxNmOQXDPkv2c5+6MECUbzuG59m421Zbis7aie/c4O D9zoDyluL/05x+FmGhzuJyUqwqRnx7NI9z4vlLfnDRMuiMjQZDBwDqTF5F6Z10soR1Tv X3wFA7sHm417OFdBF3pdJAmfWjy3ycsemoM2pC3GV4JYbXNmSuzSE9yCA78DRBNzSBon 0iZ5ySwiXYKiMUE+46D4nviYHSo5CwfkQP2bLi5v/X0moJeEL2d3oKfXJx2Y+D4MsJpu ckfQ/m5P44xaL7m31WiMLIR/K/NYQDaLArj08EcsuT9R/6LMGW47dVOqKDbGAB5hm9VF iKmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukf7H0wkJrLyQGLpUmFtSZLdh/jIgLSMUrttRMlPngwCKcABGSdU RmeTJaaLCP3Vh1lSaQ6jf6c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6tZOXTnHhns+sgcmUKCFG3dzliEQ1JdtO/onXeBkKt1VRBrUCXAqrYa/mepTC3Y6Mm4rsaHw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5b48:: with SMTP id l8mr17759632pgm.80.1546533855464; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 08:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.8] (c-73-158-115-137.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.158.115.137]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f20sm70776031pfn.177.2019.01.03.08.44.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jan 2019 08:44:14 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_861E1E91-BF30-4F68-B32E-69D6DDBD07D8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 08:44:13 -0800 In-Reply-To: <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" To: "Templin, Fred L" References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <6CB0826F-943F-44F3-880A-F515D6AF8DB3@tony.li> <7afdc68ba9194de88714f6c9a82317db@boeing.com> <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 16:44:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_861E1E91-BF30-4F68-B32E-69D6DDBD07D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fred, Happy New Year! > I take it you approve, then. Close enough. As you know, there are better ways if we could make some = architectural changes for mobility for IPv6, but without those, the best = that we can hope to do is to contain the routing =E2=80=98noise=E2=80=99 = to an overlay, as you=E2=80=99ve done. I think that there=E2=80=99s a = scalability issue that you=E2=80=99ll need to address that=E2=80=99s = going to be pretty critical. The same approach for wheeled vehicles = would seem to be intractable, if only because it=E2=80=99s orders of = magnitude larger.=20 > Thank you also for giving us BGP; I don=E2=80=99t > think most people realize how versatile a service it really is, and = our > draft is just one example. It has been my honor to serve=E2=80=A6 Tony --Apple-Mail=_861E1E91-BF30-4F68-B32E-69D6DDBD07D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Fred,

Happy New Year!


I take it you approve, then. =


Close enough. As you know, there are better ways = if we could make some architectural changes for mobility for IPv6, but = without those, the best that we can hope to do is to contain the routing = =E2=80=98noise=E2=80=99 to an overlay, as you=E2=80=99ve done.  I = think that there=E2=80=99s a scalability issue that you=E2=80=99ll need = to address that=E2=80=99s going to be pretty critical. The same approach = for wheeled vehicles would seem to be intractable, if only because = it=E2=80=99s orders of magnitude larger. 


Thank you also for giving us BGP; I don=E2=80=99t
think most people = realize how versatile a service it really is, and our
draft is just one = example.


It has been my honor to = serve=E2=80=A6

Tony


= --Apple-Mail=_861E1E91-BF30-4F68-B32E-69D6DDBD07D8-- From nobody Fri Jan 4 07:19:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A97B130D7A for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ftbPBwUp2dEw for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:19:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14E6A12E04D for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x04FJrk2028683; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 10:19:53 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-11.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.113]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x04FJhdE027611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jan 2019 10:19:44 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.113) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:19:42 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 07:19:42 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Thread-Index: AdSa21+6FGreYgSCSK+NUPNEsCdBFAAHxbBZADalStAAJMLiAAAy32iAABIGD4AAVAr58AE+sPiAAB5i39A= Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 15:19:42 +0000 Message-ID: <2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455@boeing.com> References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <6CB0826F-943F-44F3-880A-F515D6AF8DB3@tony.li> <7afdc68ba9194de88714f6c9a82317db@boeing.com> <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 8B8BE5CC63638AAE06A0518EDDBAB7651D97EC09C3656F933F4309ECEE9F366C2000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455boeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: 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Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vsCq1ON4llYx for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42a.google.com (mail-pf1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 455DC130E30 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id b85so18546688pfc.3 for ; Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:36:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=SVwtD/tsJWP3B2w+RXRUGTVbnIYOhAGGTfJpCGLNUMU=; b=V73xyhxIdWO66rW5wibddWo1pRCVnyyVdVuip1Pcc9kmN/uoGLMUgoNKVQBO4RVCbd 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ALg8bN4fc8w/EsvSCDz3EoMmJdMF+vJgZp750H3Ikko6AQDxO4R09OekqpLa4LwsP0h3pWbOVCj/Ww== X-Received: by 2002:a62:2292:: with SMTP id p18mr54398634pfj.9.1546619795574; Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b2sm108508295pfm.3.2019.01.04.08.36.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:36:34 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: <62CE585D-EBF8-41DC-9939-D9EF4CB2F47F@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_454EF44B-1059-442B-8A10-3FF661E58613" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:36:33 -0800 In-Reply-To: <2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455@boeing.com> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" To: "Templin, Fred L" References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <6CB0826F-943F-44F3-880A-F515D6AF8DB3@tony.li> <7afdc68ba9194de88714f6c9a82317db@boeing.com> <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> <2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455@boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 16:36:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_454EF44B-1059-442B-8A10-3FF661E58613 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Fred, Well, there are currently around 300M vehicles in the US and 1B already = in the world. In production, the Internet is just around 700K routes today. So that = would be a three order of magnitude increase. History suggests that some other mechanism will be necessary to grow = that far. Adding more routers doesn=E2=80=99t do it at all. The entry point to = the network needs to contain everything, so it needs to carry the full 1B routes, not only in FIB and RIB, but in BGP. And it = needs to converge in sub-glacial time. Or, vehicles can change addresses=E2=80=A6. Tony > On Jan 4, 2019, at 7:19 AM, Templin (US), Fred L = wrote: >=20 > Hi Tony, > =20 > Think of it as scalable de-aggregation. I have shown that a single = lightweight > virtual machine can handle 1M BGP routes without any problem. I have = not > tried with more routes, but I suspect the number could be pushed even > higher. But, if you want more routes (say by multiple orders of = magnitude) > simply add more routers. > =20 > The document talks about scaling up to 1B routes, but the architecture > should be capable of even more given that everything can be deployed > on lightweight virtual machines. So, I do think the architecture is = capable > of supporting massive numbers of wheeled vehicles, with mobility > services also employed. > =20 > Thanks - Fred > =20 > From: Tony Li [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com] On Behalf Of = tony.li@tony.li > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 8:44 AM > To: Templin (US), Fred L > Cc: Alexandre Petrescu ; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor = Discovery > =20 > =20 > Fred, > =20 > Happy New Year! > =20 >=20 >=20 > I take it you approve, then. > =20 > =20 > Close enough. As you know, there are better ways if we could make some = architectural changes for mobility for IPv6, but without those, the best = that we can hope to do is to contain the routing =E2=80=98noise=E2=80=99 = to an overlay, as you=E2=80=99ve done. I think that there=E2=80=99s a = scalability issue that you=E2=80=99ll need to address that=E2=80=99s = going to be pretty critical. The same approach for wheeled vehicles = would seem to be intractable, if only because it=E2=80=99s orders of = magnitude larger.=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you also for giving us BGP; I don=E2=80=99t > think most people realize how versatile a service it really is, and = our > draft is just one example. > =20 > =20 > It has been my honor to serve=E2=80=A6 > =20 > Tony --Apple-Mail=_454EF44B-1059-442B-8A10-3FF661E58613 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Fred,

Well, there are currently around 300M = vehicles in the US and 1B already in the world.

In production, the Internet is just = around 700K routes today. So that would be a three order of magnitude = increase.

History suggests that some other mechanism will be necessary = to grow that far.

Adding more routers doesn=E2=80=99t do it at all.  The = entry point to the network needs to contain everything, so it needs = to
carry the full 1B routes, not only in FIB and = RIB, but in BGP.  And it needs to converge in sub-glacial = time.

Or, = vehicles can change addresses=E2=80=A6.

Tony


On Jan 4, 2019, at 7:19 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Tony,
 
Think of it as scalable = de-aggregation. I have shown that a single lightweight
virtual machine can = handle 1M BGP routes without any problem. I have not
tried with more routes, = but I suspect the number could be pushed even
higher. But, if you = want more routes (say by multiple orders of magnitude)
simply add more = routers.
 
The document talks = about scaling up to 1B routes, but the architecture
should be capable of = even more given that everything can be deployed
on lightweight virtual = machines. So, I do think the architecture is capable
of supporting massive = numbers of wheeled vehicles, with mobility
services also = employed.
 
Thanks - Fred
 
From: Tony Li [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com] On Behalf = Of tony.li@tony.li
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 = 8:44 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L = <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: 
Alexandre Petrescu = <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route = Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery
 
 
Fred,
 
Happy New Year!
 


I take it you approve, = then.
 
 
Close enough. As you know, there are = better ways if we could make some architectural changes for mobility for = IPv6, but without those, the best that we can hope to do is to contain = the routing =E2=80=98noise=E2=80=99 to an overlay, as you=E2=80=99ve = done.  I think that there=E2=80=99s a scalability issue that = you=E2=80=99ll need to address that=E2=80=99s going to be pretty = critical. The same approach for wheeled vehicles would seem to be = intractable, if only because it=E2=80=99s orders of magnitude = larger. 
 


Thank you also for giving us BGP; I don=E2=80=99t
think most people = realize how versatile a service it really is, and our
draft is just one = example.
 
 
It has been my honor to serve=E2=80=A6
 
Tony

= --Apple-Mail=_454EF44B-1059-442B-8A10-3FF661E58613-- From nobody Fri Jan 4 08:48:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBCE130E64 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:48:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OxJB8XHou7db for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9A63130E68 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x04GmNYN016703; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:48:23 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 18A54203830; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:48:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A0F2035D6; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:48:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x04GmMM6008618; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:48:22 +0100 To: tony.li@tony.li, "Templin, Fred L" Cc: "its@ietf.org" References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <6CB0826F-943F-44F3-880A-F515D6AF8DB3@tony.li> <7afdc68ba9194de88714f6c9a82317db@boeing.com> <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> <2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455@boeing.com> <62CE585D-EBF8-41DC-9939-D9EF4CB2F47F@tony.li> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:48:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <62CE585D-EBF8-41DC-9939-D9EF4CB2F47F@tony.li> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 16:48:37 -0000 Le 04/01/2019 à 17:36, tony.li@tony.li a écrit : > > Hi Fred, > > Well, there are currently around 300M vehicles in the US and 1B already > in the world. > > In production, the Internet is just around 700K routes today. YEs, it is in the Routing Table Report, and it's IPv4. It grows continuously since year 2000, at an approximate rate of 50k per year. This growth is without mobility events, just Internet static growth. > So that > would be a three order of magnitude increase. > > History suggests that some other mechanism will be necessary to grow > that far. > > Adding more routers doesn’t do it at all.  The entry point to the > network needs to contain everything, so it needs to > carry the full 1B routes, not only in FIB and RIB, but in BGP.  And it > needs to converge in sub-glacial time. Propagation and convergence latency involved in route injection depends not only on the number of injections (number of vehicles and their supposed handover events) but also on (1) the way the nodes of the fixed network are connected and (2) the way the default routes are used. A fewer number of routers in the fixed network, hyperconnected, and a wise use of default routes, both closely following the physical deployment of roads, and maximum allowed radio power levels, can lead to fewer routing messages exchanged (keep propagation local), and thus sub-glacial time. I am not saying one should do it (route injection), but it is good to know it is possible and under what conditions. > Or, vehicles can change addresses…. YEs, but should they change their addresses _and_ use tunneling _and_ maintain ongoing sessions. Or can it be decoupled (de-tripled?). Alex > > Tony > > >> On Jan 4, 2019, at 7:19 AM, Templin (US), Fred L >> > wrote: >> >> Hi Tony, >> Think of it as scalable de-aggregation. I have shown that a single >> lightweight >> virtual machine can handle 1M BGP routes without any problem. I have not >> tried with more routes, but I suspect the number could be pushed even >> higher. But, if you want more routes (say by multiple orders of magnitude) >> simply add more routers. >> The document talks about scaling up to 1B routes, but the architecture >> should be capable of even more given that everything can be deployed >> on lightweight virtual machines. So, I do think the architecture is >> capable >> of supporting massive numbers of wheeled vehicles, with mobility >> services also employed. >> Thanks - Fred >> *From:*Tony Li [mailto:tony1athome@gmail.com]*On Behalf >> Of*tony.li@tony.li >> *Sent:*Thursday, January 03, 2019 8:44 AM >> *To:*Templin (US), Fred L >> *Cc:*Alexandre Petrescu ; its@ietf.org >> *Subject:*Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor >> Discovery >> Fred, >> Happy New Year! >> >> >> I take it you approve, then. >> >> Close enough. As you know, there are better ways if we could make some >> architectural changes for mobility for IPv6, but without those, the >> best that we can hope to do is to contain the routing ‘noise’ to an >> overlay, as you’ve done.  I think that there’s a scalability issue >> that you’ll need to address that’s going to be pretty critical. The >> same approach for wheeled vehicles would seem to be intractable, if >> only because it’s orders of magnitude larger. >> >> >> Thank you also for giving us BGP; I don’t >> think most people realize how versatile a service it really is, >> and our >> draft is just one example. >> >> It has been my honor to serve… >> Tony > From nobody Fri Jan 4 09:50:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F4A130E5B for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 09:50:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0asBpARfCJq for 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15.1.1591.10; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 09:50:40 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 09:50:40 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Thread-Index: AdSa21+6FGreYgSCSK+NUPNEsCdBFAAHxbBZADalStAAJMLiAAAy32iAABIGD4AAVAr58AE+sPiAAB5i39AAE6MwgAAO72RA Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 17:50:40 +0000 Message-ID: <0360700ee0514a7ca85913504033ea63@boeing.com> References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <6CB0826F-943F-44F3-880A-F515D6AF8DB3@tony.li> <7afdc68ba9194de88714f6c9a82317db@boeing.com> <607e965a3b16444188d69f3d1a2991fb@boeing.com> <2720600dc8dc4f1fb03410adde62f455@boeing.com> <62CE585D-EBF8-41DC-9939-D9EF4CB2F47F@tony.li> 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--_000_0360700ee0514a7ca85913504033ea63boeingcom_-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 03:40:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD4D124D68 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 03:40:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rXru9p1aByDL for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 03:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E056130DCD for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 03:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x07BeQPw034984; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:26 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 93E80203E13; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47534203D13; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x07BePq7003240; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:26 +0100 To: tony.li@tony.li Cc: its@ietf.org References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:25 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0984E3D0FDDCD5EEB7923368" Content-Language: fr Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 11:40:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0984E3D0FDDCD5EEB7923368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le 23/12/2018 21:02, tony.li@tony.li a crit: > >> >> I have a doubt why they are called 'delegated' prefixes, because the >> prefixes we put in RIOs are not delegated: they are hardcoded in cars. >> (they dont pre-arrive by DHCPv6PD). > > > It will be interesting to see how this works with the Internet routing > and addressing architecture. Is this documented somewhere? At this time, in trial, the cars are supposed to learn each others' prefixes. We dont inject that into Internet. I look for a cellular operator ready to accept such 'injections'. On OCB I consider the RSUs that we control may accept injections. As for the documented question: at this time we have not yet documented it. We could document it for June 2019, in a private deliverable. We dont know yet how and what to document. I do have some pencil-and-paper explanation on power point about what is a mobiliy event (in terms of routing) and what is a route update ('injection'). (attached). But I learned recently there is an RFC 6227 titled "Design Goals for Scalable Internet Routing". This RFC does have text about mobility. In that text there is something about requiring injecting some routes by the mobiles, as an alternative. I is an encouraging direction. 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ac0zzwr2JHwu for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 398CF130FAF for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x07HjiAd017184; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:45:44 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-10.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.112]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x07HjWoJ015904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:45:32 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:45:31 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 09:45:31 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "tony.li@tony.li" CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Thread-Index: AdSa21+6FGreYgSCSK+NUPNEsCdBFALo3eYdAAvtjAA= Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 17:45:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 46D4BEB4D5EF9599B4C479D56912C7A8D8BD264A3BDB0B5C9760DDEB6E67EA892000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 17:45:50 -0000 Hi Alex, > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 3:40 AM > To: tony.li@tony.li > Cc: its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discover= y >=20 >=20 >=20 > Le 23/12/2018 =E0 21:02, tony.li@tony.li a =E9crit=A0: > > > >> > >> I have a doubt why they are called 'delegated' prefixes, because the > >> prefixes we put in RIOs are not delegated: they are hardcoded in cars. > >> (they dont pre-arrive by DHCPv6PD). > > > > > > It will be interesting to see how this works with the Internet routing > > and addressing architecture. Is this documented somewhere? >=20 > At this time, in trial, the cars are supposed to learn each others' > prefixes. That is good, but without some trust basis how can cars trust each others' prefix assertions? I think what you are saying will be OK for trials, but there will eventually need to be a trusted online service that all cars trust so they can be convinced to trust each other. =20 > We dont inject that into Internet. I look for a cellular > operator ready to accept such 'injections'. On OCB I consider the RSUs > that we control may accept injections. The problem with asking a cellular operator to accept the injections is that not all cars will subscribe to the same cellular operator. The cellula= r service provider is simply one data link service among possibly many that the car might have - for example, the car might also have a satellite service. So, there needs to be some overlay service provider network that rides over top of the available data links. The overlay would be controlled by some transportation authority like the US department of transportation. The roadside units would also be under their control. > As for the documented question: at this time we have not yet documented > it. We could document it for June 2019, in a private deliverable. We > dont know yet how and what to document. Please have a look at our drafts - they came from the aviation community but are also applicable to automotive. > I do have some pencil-and-paper explanation on power point about what is > a mobiliy event (in terms of routing) and what is a route update > ('injection'). (attached). Looks like a reasonable concise sketch. Not sure about the Mobile IP conclusion, though; AERO is also a candidate. > But I learned recently there is an RFC 6227 titled "Design Goals for > Scalable Internet Routing". This RFC does have text about mobility. In > that text there is something about requiring injecting some routes by > the mobiles, as an alternative. I is an encouraging direction. Yes, this came from the IRTF Routing Research Group, which is also where AERO came from. Thanks - Fred > Alex >=20 > > > > Tony > > From nobody Mon Jan 7 10:32:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD58B1277D2 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:32:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3dY-N-0pB90 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 275E412426E for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id y126so579626pfb.4 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:32:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fQq84hlsoTLFEcGYNx3vDQmKthlPMm8QybL5pbfqW94=; b=dmIcwf3Y3mfL4zWUauFbh3fhF7Ulu1dCtxWPvCmubnOME12SSUxJlXwD/1v0N8JiYq 75flaDhclLk3logxEHGhnntGYvuzkQBC4CkZhDO4DW2d+K77gz55vh6iv5kEdTHdeAvV +SNpUMWs5rwIuuicmPQUI+gwkZtw/dZlfkLJQyQPf7gWgMDxTz24xkVj+58dexxwlKMY mg8sgG+ouNM7m7wicgXQuCu1mJLbqLuDNwXZwig7JkZ3Ha7KoK4SWrJgC8uIpciucHLn pv1uMc8RAOcpew+2OnB/5fxVawjVhNMyUfuNF1adHWSBlINZipH8dCHBn+S8+Rdc5nn+ ATBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fQq84hlsoTLFEcGYNx3vDQmKthlPMm8QybL5pbfqW94=; b=KGgSskkA8pmX4ml/7EXP6eG9CjIicjH/iGPyHS9Uwcg+ih4VyEVga8GKn9w6ZAnHXS yjPKScuQFcIp4IC2VbhaGNaeDPXDTFl4CoIgQN8B0ltKCE2+B1lBCENSep8Xhzj8+8vY LLOX0grbrM1WufAtMFck8C2BGYi4ZrOL2WBN7onfR6nwUUH99ltKyS+JBJpiLd7QEnVP 2TpWf/KE1Y8SAxlqWglxByQywi4wseaJSO4S35B8Hj5O/kfutV497ebDWWayaPvFBC24 W4QKG9UMcSEg3kKY37wS1Wp6lVIEpqQ5uAYvtkSls6Ao+sq0gjT6XRVo8NWjxpTKWs4r 3KTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZGzQQOlS/FEcUbBAPbGimDyQmp4rkU1sDv5+Ji+J0Uea9mjlVM D/20B2/wj49XqWX/RB3NzYQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VRR78RPkQk2b6wTn1/nW4AZIGm2DMdCkypZPKBQSFX0YoHWA4dYcxlBJSSPI2VjCf1E/qSxw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:35c7:: with SMTP id c190mr65736984pfa.76.1546885930595; Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p2sm93250301pfb.28.2019.01.07.10.32.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:32:09 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: tony.li@tony.li In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:32:09 -0800 Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <98956FB8-E314-4E1D-BA71-C2D93131DCAB@tony.li> References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> To: "Templin, Fred L" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 18:32:13 -0000 > That is good, but without some trust basis how can cars trust each > others' prefix assertions? I think what you are saying will be OK for > trials, but there will eventually need to be a trusted online service > that all cars trust so they can be convinced to trust each other. =20 One might suggest that RPKI might be useful, once again. =20 >> We dont inject that into Internet. I look for a cellular >> operator ready to accept such 'injections'. On OCB I consider the = RSUs >> that we control may accept injections. >=20 > The problem with asking a cellular operator to accept the injections = is > that not all cars will subscribe to the same cellular operator. The = cellular > service provider is simply one data link service among possibly many > that the car might have - for example, the car might also have a > satellite service. So, there needs to be some overlay service provider > network that rides over top of the available data links. The overlay > would be controlled by some transportation authority like the US > department of transportation. The roadside units would also be > under their control. That seems like an extreme solution, given that just about anyone could = trivially set up an RSU. How do you mandate that type of hierarchical = control? How would you enforce it? It seems to me that the basic use of DHCP with prefix delegation is far = more likely to yield scalable results. This has the huge advantage of = having the addressing meet the topology. One then applies the previous = work on ad hoc or standard routing protocols (e.g,, AODV, OSPF, IS-IS) = and you=E2=80=99re in pretty good shape. >> As for the documented question: at this time we have not yet = documented >> it. We could document it for June 2019, in a private deliverable. = We >> dont know yet how and what to document. >=20 > Please have a look at our drafts - they came from the aviation = community > but are also applicable to automotive. There are some OCB use cases that I think bear further thought in this = context. While aircraft-to-aircraft is probably a minor use case, in = the OCB world, it would seem like it would be very common. How does = that work in the AERO context?=20 In OCB, there may be no working uplinks, only peer-to-peer links. No = RSU=E2=80=99s in reach, only other vehicles? How would AERO support = this? >> But I learned recently there is an RFC 6227 titled "Design Goals for >> Scalable Internet Routing". This RFC does have text about mobility. = In >> that text there is something about requiring injecting some routes by >> the mobiles, as an alternative. I is an encouraging direction. >=20 > Yes, this came from the IRTF Routing Research Group, which is also > where AERO came from. You=E2=80=99ll also note that the RRG=E2=80=99s proposed solution for = this has not yet been picked up by the IETF or industry. Nor has any = other clear solution come to light. Tony From nobody Mon Jan 7 12:04:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C85412D7EA for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:04:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id THbPJNunf07f for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:04:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4486712008A for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:04:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x07K4Qtp028140; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 15:04:26 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-10.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.112]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x07K4MYq028046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jan 2019 15:04:23 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:04:21 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:04:21 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Thread-Index: AdSa21+6FGreYgSCSK+NUPNEsCdBFALo3eYdAAvtjAAAEvM7gAAN4Hhw Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 20:04:21 +0000 Message-ID: <495ebf35805a4e988c936b5617d8795e@boeing.com> References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> <98956FB8-E314-4E1D-BA71-C2D93131DCAB@tony.li> In-Reply-To: <98956FB8-E314-4E1D-BA71-C2D93131DCAB@tony.li> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 174D75EC93F84C3EB36C55D3FDDCF4C4B7B5143F0B16C34AA2033F9B3F0267E32000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:04:32 -0000 SGkgVG9ueSwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBUb255IExp IFttYWlsdG86dG9ueTFhdGhvbWVAZ21haWwuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgdG9ueS5saUB0b255 LmxpDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSmFudWFyeSAwNywgMjAxOSAxMDozMiBBTQ0KPiBUbzogVGVt cGxpbiAoVVMpLCBGcmVkIEwgPEZyZWQuTC5UZW1wbGluQGJvZWluZy5jb20+DQo+IENjOiBBbGV4 YW5kcmUgUGV0cmVzY3UgPGFsZXhhbmRyZS5wZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb20+OyBpdHNAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtpcHdhdmVdIFJvdXRlIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uIE9wdGlvbnMgaW4g SVB2NiBOZWlnaGJvciBEaXNjb3ZlcnkNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiBUaGF0IGlzIGdvb2QsIGJ1 dCB3aXRob3V0IHNvbWUgdHJ1c3QgYmFzaXMgaG93IGNhbiBjYXJzIHRydXN0IGVhY2gNCj4gPiBv dGhlcnMnIHByZWZpeCBhc3NlcnRpb25zPyBJIHRoaW5rIHdoYXQgeW91IGFyZSBzYXlpbmcgd2ls 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ICBPQ0Igb3BlcmF0aW9ucy4NCg0KPiA+PiBCdXQgSSBsZWFybmVkIHJlY2VudGx5IHRoZXJlIGlz IGFuIFJGQyA2MjI3IHRpdGxlZCAiRGVzaWduIEdvYWxzIGZvcg0KPiA+PiBTY2FsYWJsZSBJbnRl cm5ldCBSb3V0aW5nIi4gIFRoaXMgUkZDIGRvZXMgaGF2ZSB0ZXh0IGFib3V0IG1vYmlsaXR5LiAg SW4NCj4gPj4gdGhhdCB0ZXh0IHRoZXJlIGlzIHNvbWV0aGluZyBhYm91dCByZXF1aXJpbmcgaW5q ZWN0aW5nIHNvbWUgcm91dGVzIGJ5DQo+ID4+IHRoZSBtb2JpbGVzLCBhcyBhbiBhbHRlcm5hdGl2 ZS4gIEkgaXMgYW4gZW5jb3VyYWdpbmcgZGlyZWN0aW9uLg0KPiA+DQo+ID4gWWVzLCB0aGlzIGNh bWUgZnJvbSB0aGUgSVJURiBSb3V0aW5nIFJlc2VhcmNoIEdyb3VwLCB3aGljaCBpcyBhbHNvDQo+ ID4gd2hlcmUgQUVSTyBjYW1lIGZyb20uDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gWW914oCZbGwgYWxzbyBub3RlIHRo YXQgdGhlIFJSR+KAmXMgcHJvcG9zZWQgc29sdXRpb24gZm9yIHRoaXMgaGFzIG5vdCB5ZXQgYmVl biBwaWNrZWQgdXAgYnkgdGhlIElFVEYgb3IgaW5kdXN0cnkuICBOb3IgaGFzIGFueSBvdGhlciBj bGVhcg0KPiBzb2x1dGlvbiBjb21lIHRvIGxpZ2h0Lg0KDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUgbXVsdGlwbGUgc29s dXRpb24gYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzIHByb3Bvc2VkIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJpZ2h0IG5vdywgYW5kDQpJ IGRvbid0IHNlZSBhbnkgb2YgdGhlbSBtb3ZpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCBvdmVyIHRoZSBvdGhlcnMgYXMg b2YgeWV0LiBCdXQsIEJHUA0Kd2l0aCBzY2FsYWJsZSBkZS1hZ2dyZWdhdGlvbiBzZWVtcyBsaWtl IGEgZml0IGZvciBJVFMgYW5kIG90aGVyIHVzZSBjYXNlcy4NCg0KVGhhbmtzIC0gRnJlZA0KDQo+ IFRvbnkNCg0K From nobody Tue Jan 8 07:27:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBB0130DD8 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nFWFeIsxZblW for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 07:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFBFA12F1AB for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 07:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x08FQq2s006527; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:26:52 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A9F5204722; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:26:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F3C20471D; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:26:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x08FQq3E016436; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:26:52 +0100 To: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "tony.li@tony.li" Cc: "its@ietf.org" References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:26:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 15:26:59 -0000 Le 07/01/2019 à 18:45, Templin (US), Fred L a écrit : [...] >>> It will be interesting to see how this works with the Internet routing >>> and addressing architecture. Is this documented somewhere? >> >> At this time, in trial, the cars are supposed to learn each others' >> prefixes. > > That is good, but without some trust basis how can cars trust each > others' prefix assertions? We are in an urgent need to secure these prefix assertions. Until then the prefixes and other sensitive data travel in clear, potentially in public areas, at 5.9GHz. It must be something easy to do for beginner programmer. As simple as all the other non secure things are. Since this is urgent, we explore several directions. SeND (Secure Neighbor Discovery) does have some advantages but it seems no implementaiton is simple and straightforwad. VPN implementations between cars is straightforward, yet OpenVPN has some complains about proprietary secrecy; 'algo' from MIT, 'simplevpn' and SoftEther are other candidates. > I think what you are saying will be OK for > trials, but there will eventually need to be a trusted online service > that all cars trust so they can be convinced to trust each other. YEs I agree, the need can be there, but it is so much difficult to satisfy. In France the situation is relatively fuzzy about this. There are some directions of building such trust, but they are mainly just statements. There is very little actual help. There is this company 'idnomic' that many French people refer to, but I cant seem to get something quickly out of their website. It's far from being as easy and trustful as, say, VeriSign. There is ETSI certificates too, but not sure who is the CA for that. This situation is far from being as easy as the deployed PKI with CAs in widely deployed web browsers. One is basically left to one self: generate certificates oneself. Maybe 'Let's Encrypt' for cars - another direction. Alex From nobody Tue Jan 8 08:00:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B497130ECD for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:00:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HK_NAME_FM_MR_MRS=1.499, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rbmnHtEoLuZk for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2E1F130ED7 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id m19so3513195ioh.3 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 08:00:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lmnnl7A0CePYu4EN05CkKcF2SdUoNfyJv2L7AoA0GXE=; b=oAQtOSFJtcuA7X7MNyyacE5krMBRbTQRBYbMbvFKJy+tkWjaMPa6h0+FpHvpPaHyp5 KV0i7DUekkpe0xKLWqxdnbwB6Ne6d7EE7OiLeppY2pEKUOl1RdCGbZEyayu/5jNW6ijg fAA9dwdY6hWpgvdWtVu2zgIlLXFVIXZ+CDEUZYLH+eWOHUzlxpbGverz0fAJgLtTRuhl Vhn2uLxm1a2Z5mczd7deiQ9mbD/aUPSvgBCG1eSXaslC9P52Y1vx0UbI64Ld4ASnEviO UomqenD5SAaDZk+dsucRKTpxT3yERKbDf0AQ51Da0NfS1idIYTUmDCrdGZGIP7PizpZD i+cA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lmnnl7A0CePYu4EN05CkKcF2SdUoNfyJv2L7AoA0GXE=; b=FcmizODe39rS5Hv52oy5zkcqmszgepmmgScyQXjT0X66rIuEuLlpskNqTaQj0CIzug YKDtlIrQG4ATo4KyGAcz4LtwLkwB4u1nC/wK6sJy7LBc8LjolFQFUvs4kWEKBBxb1drp fFHzCSiB9ds/EZXAHdv4JC1hL97xh+9d4T/yNSxfXojrdPBpvBcFKkVuKmr7szhfhR/S 9jgDV5tmyNbNB5VRKTEkSTTwEHDEFdG41iAZM9zjhJ9671mYbd4tFHdSE9onR6Pb5MHY TVUfeVxfNT+2QVCDgNZ/XSDAJwsQ2QE4QBkybYGk/Y9n5FYza9a0PThm5myCvG9B+iMq ZKBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfQtXZjiACHF7DLeEC2LjQEbQGZZntWpy251tIKAomMk0AvAui+ ZASI6dH6OmarBhsc6ebkPCfNxJXI3U2wiNRyFkM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6ERI8hDR8nPcFBJRy7nFo7AygFhGsMQt6MVazwQzgdYvB/EXgtEjmMm2VIMcuVzYETtIJk/bxWq+OLJODcBHI= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:d910:: with SMTP id n16mr1556382iop.58.1546963210856; Tue, 08 Jan 2019 08:00:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 00:59:31 +0900 Message-ID: To: Charlie Perkins , Sri Gundavelli , Jung-Soo Park Cc: its@ietf.org, "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9f24a057ef47033" Archived-At: Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:00:14 -0000 --000000000000a9f24a057ef47033 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. Thanks for your volunteer help. Best Regards, Paul -- =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php --000000000000a9f24a057ef47033 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,
As you= agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on=C2=A0
=
the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

We need to move forward with this document and = the IPWAVE rechartering.

Thanks for your volunteer= help.

Best Regards,
Paul
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul= ) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyun= kwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/= people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<= /div>
--000000000000a9f24a057ef47033-- From nobody Tue Jan 8 08:16:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056A3130ED4 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:16:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8zJYTz_TFgqt for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146A4130EBF for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x08GGA3t007723; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:16:10 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-12.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.114]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x08GG04E006296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 8 Jan 2019 11:16:00 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.114) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:15:59 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:15:59 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "tony.li@tony.li" CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Thread-Index: AdSa21+6FGreYgSCSK+NUPNEsCdBFALo3eYdAAvtjAAAPsUggAAPmnNg Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2019 16:15:59 +0000 Message-ID: <765fa0b858424e43995514223bef72bf@boeing.com> References: <7492e4cc1b2140f09b37071b3e85d549@boeing.com> <746b0b3c-5a8e-a832-3c73-26e8029c3b71@gmail.com> <1D1A072C-0F9B-41F4-AC04-1759B5D7C66A@tony.li> <9b62669d-9834-0232-2c82-c4fb1e7c1c69@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 9875A3AD7FD1AD642DDDFB3D8541F59F1DC9F011F109ACE4C74EC773193B5F062000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Route Information Options in IPv6 Neighbor Discovery X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:16:15 -0000 SGkgQWxleCwNCg0KSSBsaWtlIHRoZSBpZGVhIG9mIHVzaW5nIFNFTkQsIGJ1dCB0aGUgaXNzdWUg aXMgaG93IHRvIGVuc3VyZSB0aGF0IENHQXMgYXJlDQp1bmlxdWUuIERBRCB3b3VsZCBvbmx5IGNv bmZpcm0gdW5pcXVlbmVzcyBhbW9uZyBhIG1vYmlsZSBub2RlJ3MgY3VycmVudA0Kc2V0IG9mIG5l aWdoYm9ycywgYnV0IHRoYXQgc2V0IGNvdWxkIGJlIGNoYW5naW5nIGR5bmFtaWNhbGx5IG92ZXIg dGltZS4NCg0KVGhlIHNvbHV0aW9uIHdlIGNob3NlIGZvciBBRVJPIHdhcyB0byBmb3JnZXQgYWJv dXQgREFEIGZvciBDR0FzIGFuZA0KaW5zdGVhZCBpbmNsdWRlIGEgbGluay1sb2NhbCBhZGRyZXNz IGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBub2RlJ3MgbW9iaWxlIG5ldHdvcmsNCnByZWZpeCAoTU5QKSBpbiBhIGZv cm0gdGhhdCBpcyBrbm93biBhcyB0aGUgQUVSTyBhZGRyZXNzLiBTbywgZm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsDQpp ZiB0aGUgTU5QIGlzIDIwMDE6ZGI4OjE6Mjo6LzY0IHRoZW4gdGhlIEFFUk8gYWRkcmVzcyBpcyBm ZTgwOjoyMDAxOmRiODoxOjIuDQoNClRoZSBDR0EgYW5kIEFFUk8gYWRkcmVzcyB0aGVuIHdvcmsg 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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihfOBBUTtItR for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C27A31286E7 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09FTkkU015309; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:29:46 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-08.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-08.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.110]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09FTfo5014468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:29:41 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-08.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.110) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:29:40 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 07:29:40 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cA== Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 15:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 96B0C550A823CE2331F76508A835A6BDFFBD0D97B998E916B260AE0341EBD0E32000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:29:51 -0000 SGVsbG8sDQoNClVuZGVyIEZBQSBwcm9ncmFtIERURkFXQS0xNS1ELTAwMDMwIGFuZCBOQVNBIHBy b2dyYW0gTk5BMTZCRDg0Qywgd2UNCmhhdmUgZGV2ZWxvcGVkIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIGFyY2hp dGVjdHVyZXMgZm9yIGJvdGggbWFubmVkIGFuZCB1bm1hbm5lZA0KYXZpYXRpb24uIFVubWFubmVk IEFpciBTeXN0ZW1zIChVQVMpIGluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgcHJlc2VudCBhbiBpbnRlcmVzdGluZyBj aGFsbGVuZ2UsDQphcyB0aGVyZSB3aWxsIGJlIHZhc3QgbnVtYmVycyBvcGVyYXRpbmcgaW4gd29y bGR3aWRlIGNvbnRyb2xsZWQgYW5kIHVuY29udHJvbGxlZA0KYWlyIHNwYWNlcyBpbiB0aGUgY29t aW5nIHllYXJzLiBXaXRoIHRoZSBhZHZlbnQgb2YgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHN1Y2ggYXMgYWlyIHRh 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9 Jan 2019 15:47:57 +0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 15:47:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "its@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/71.0.3578.98 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:48:01 -0000 Fred, > With the advent of applications such as air taxis and personal air vehicl= es, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with the legacy terrestr= ial vehicle deployment.=20 This is a very interesting area. I wanted to share information about two A= irTaxi implementations. In India, there is active work on AirTaxi at IIT Kanpur. You may be intere= sted in the following article: "IIT-Kanpur, VTOL Aviation Sign $2.2 Mn MoU = To Develop Flying Taxi Prototype" https://inc42.com/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-sign-mou-to-develop-flying-= taxi-prototype/ For any of you who know the incredible traffic problems in India, any solut= ion would be a blessing! In the Monterey Bay area in California (my local community), there is a sta= rtup working on AirTaxi. You may be interested in the article: An ambitiou= s flying taxi startup is setting up shop at the Marina Municipal Airport" http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/an-ambitious-flying-tax= i-startup-is-setting-up-shop-at/article_9f1a6616-abe8-11e8-b572-db5fa095cca= 5.html =20 Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ________________________________ From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "its@ietf.org" =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:29 AM Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Hello, Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanned aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesting c= hallenge, as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and uncontr= olled air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as air= taxis and personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with = the legacy terrestrial vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC wil= l be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in ipwav= e. Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-b= gp=E2=80=99 provides a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes associate= d with mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft-templin-i= ntarea-6706bis=E2=80=99 presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and route optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provide a comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile network= ing. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/ We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave. We believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony with terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group=E2=80=99= s activities. In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers which ha= ve been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list. Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017: ***************************************************** =E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "80= 11878"&refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L. Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DR= EFINE IEEE Aerospace 2018: **************** =E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigation (R= SCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "83= 96361"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction= =3DREFINE Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018: ***************************************************** =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "83= 84823"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DRE= FINE Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018: ************************************* =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and Surv= eillance (CNS) Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "85= 69218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction= =3DREFINE IEEE Aerospace 2019: **************** " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navigatio= n and Surveillance" To be presented 3/3/2019 _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Wed Jan 9 08:09:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CCC130EC9 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 08:09:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7DFStPAq3BT1 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 08:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D85F1130EC7 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 08:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09G9DHb029548; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:09:13 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-07.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.109]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09G971Q028402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:09:07 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 08:09:06 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 08:09:06 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipA= Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 16:09:06 +0000 Message-ID: <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave 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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4xR92zai7TvG for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:20:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1356130EB1 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09HKIvA023829; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:20:18 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-09.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.111]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09HKDHS023791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:20:13 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:20:12 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 09:20:11 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipAAHimZ0A== Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 17:20:11 +0000 Message-ID: <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 38D7F45281F8B972273F11F066726E97E213F0A1BA483D9950A27B0C2F1743482000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:20:24 -0000 RXZlbiBtb3JlIG5lYXItdGVybSBhcmUgcHJvZ3JhbXMgbGlrZSBVYmVyIEVsZXZhdGUgYW5kIEFt YXpvbiBQcmltZSBBaXI6DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnViZXIuY29tL3VzL2VuL2VsZXZhdGUvDQpo dHRwczovL3d3dy5hbWF6b24uY29tL0FtYXpvbi1QcmltZS1BaXIvYj9pZT1VVEY4Jm5vZGU9ODAz NzcyMDAxMQ0KDQpGcmVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTog aXRzIFttYWlsdG86aXRzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBUZW1wbGluIChV 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sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 17:47:07 +0000 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 17:47:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "its@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8840912_1565486972.1547056026069" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/71.0.3578.98 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:47:12 -0000 ------=_Part_8840912_1565486972.1547056026069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred, It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creating their own proto= cols or if any standards are being used. I assume there is no concern about interoperability.=C2=A0 But, I would thi= nk at least in terms of communicating with some type of controlling entity,= one might wish there to be standardization.=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins ; "its@ietf.org" =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave =20 Even more near-term are programs like Uber Elevate and Amazon Prime Air: https://www.uber.com/us/en/elevate/ https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-Air/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D8037720011 Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 8:09 AM > To: Nalini J Elkins ; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave >=20 > Hi Nalini, >=20 > These are great examples. They reminded me that NASA is starting a progra= m > called "Urban Air Mobility" (https://www.nasa.gov/uamgc) that will get st= arted > this year and extend into the early 2020s. I recommend folks take a look = at some > of the artists pictures there and the program FAQ. They show that air and= ground > vehicles will operate in the same RF airspace and therefore will need to = actively > coordinate with one another using compatible OCB comms gear. >=20 > Thanks - Fred >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 7:48 AM > > To: Templin (US), Fred L ; its@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave > > > > Fred, > > > > > > > With the advent of applications such as air taxis and personal air ve= hicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with the legacy terr= estrial > > vehicle deployment. > > > > This is a very interesting area.=C2=A0 I wanted to share information ab= out two AirTaxi implementations. > > > > In India, there is active work on AirTaxi at IIT Kanpur.=C2=A0 You may = be interested in the following article: "IIT-Kanpur, VTOL Aviation Sign > > $2.2 Mn MoU To Develop Flying Taxi Prototype" > > > > https://inc42.com/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-sign-mou-to-develop-fly= ing-taxi-prototype/ > > > > For any of you who know the incredible traffic problems in India, any s= olution would be a blessing! > > > > In the Monterey Bay area in California (my local community), there is a= startup working on AirTaxi.=C2=A0 You may be interested in the > > article: An ambitious flying taxi startup is setting up shop at the Mar= ina Municipal Airport" > > > > http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/an-ambitious-flying= -taxi-startup-is-setting-up-shop- > at/article_9f1a6616- > > abe8-11e8-b572-db5fa095cca5.html > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nalini Elkins > > CEO and Founder > > Inside Products, Inc. > > www.insidethestack.com > > (831) 659-8360 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "Templin (US), Fred L" > > To: "its@ietf.org" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:29 AM > > Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we > > > > have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanne= d > > > > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesti= ng challenge, > > > > as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and unc= ontrolled > > > > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as= air taxis and > > > > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D w= ith the legacy terrestrial > > > > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC= will > > > > be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in i= pwave. > > > > > > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and > > > > tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-a= tn-bgp=E2=80=99 provides > > > > a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes assoc= iated with > > > > mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft-templ= in-intarea-6706bis=E2=80=99 > > > > presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and rou= te > > > > optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provi= de a > > > > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile net= working. > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/ > > > > > > We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave.= We > > > > believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony wi= th > > > > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group=E2= =80=99s activities. > > > > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers whic= h have > > > > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list= . > > > > > > Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred > > > > > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017: > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > =E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > > > > =E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8011878"&refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L. > > Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > IEEE Aerospace 2018: > > > > **************** > > > > =E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigatio= n (RSCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) > > > > in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8396361"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018: > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8384823"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018: > > > > ************************************* > > > > =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and = Surveillance (CNS) > > > > Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8569218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > IEEE Aerospace 2019: > > > > **************** > > > > " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navig= ation and Surveillance" > > > > To be presented 3/3/2019 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > its mailing list > > > > its@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its =20 ------=_Part_8840912_1565486972.1547056026069 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fred,

It would be very interesting to see if e= veryone is creating their own protocols or if any standards are being used.=

I assume there is no conce= rn about interoperability.  But, I would think at least in terms of co= mmunicating with some type of controlling entity, one might wish there to b= e standardization.
 
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
= Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360

<= br>

From:= "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Nalini J Elkins <nali= ni.elkins@insidethestack.com>; "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>
= Sent: Wednesday, January 9= , 2019 9:20 AM
Subject:
Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave
=

= Even more near-term are programs like Uber Elevate and Amazon Prime Air:
https://www.uber.com/us/en/elevate/
https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-A= ir/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D8037720011

Fred

> -----Original Message----= -
> From: its [mailto:its-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
> Sent= : Wednesday, January 09, 2019 8:09 AM
> To: Nalini J E= lkins <nalini.elkins@insidet= hestack.com>; its@ietf.org
> Subject: R= e: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave
>
> Hi Nalini,
>
> These are great examples. They reminded me that NASA is sta= rting a program
> called "Urban Air Mobility" (https://ww= w.nasa.gov/uamgc) that will get started
> this yea= r and extend into the early 2020s. I recommend folks take a look at some> of the artists pictures there and the program FAQ. The= y show that air and ground
> vehicles will operate in = the same RF airspace and therefore will need to actively
= > coordinate with one another using compatible OCB comms gear.
>
> Thanks - Fred
>=
> > -----Original Message-----
= > > From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com]
> > = Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 7:48 AM
> > To: T= emplin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing= .com>; its@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re:= [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave
> >
> > Fred,
> >> >
> > > With the advent= of applications such as air taxis and personal air vehicles, UAS will soon= =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with the legacy terrestrial
> > vehicle deployment.
> >
> > This is a very interesting area.  I wanted to share in= formation about two AirTaxi implementations.
> >> > In India, there is active work on AirTaxi at IIT = Kanpur.  You may be interested in the following article: "IIT-Kanpur, = VTOL Aviation Sign
> > $2.2 Mn MoU To Develop Flyin= g Taxi Prototype"
> >
> > <= a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://inc42.com/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-si= gn-mou-to-develop-flying-taxi-prototype/" target=3D"_blank">https://inc42.c= om/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-sign-mou-to-develop-flying-taxi-prototype/=
> >
> > For any of you= who know the incredible traffic problems in India, any solution would be a= blessing!
> >
> > In the M= onterey Bay area in California (my local community), there is a startup wor= king on AirTaxi.  You may be interested in the
> = > article: An ambitious flying taxi startup is setting up shop at the Ma= rina Municipal Airport"
> >
> = > http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/an-ambitious-flyin= g-taxi-startup-is-setting-up-shop-
> at/article_9f= 1a6616-
> > abe8-11e8-b572-db5fa095cca5.html
> >
> >
> &g= t; Thanks,
> >
> > Nalini E= lkins
> > CEO and Founder
> &g= t; Inside Products, Inc.
> > www.insidethestack.com=
> > (831) 659-8360
> >
> >
> >
>= > ________________________________
> > From: "T= emplin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boein= g.com>
> > To: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January= 9, 2019 7:29 AM
> > Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air= System (UAS) applications in ipwave
> >
> >
> >
> >= Hello,
> >
> >
> > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16= BD84C, we
> >
> > have deve= loped communications architectures for both manned and unmanned
> >
> > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems= (UAS) in particular present an interesting challenge,
&g= t; >
> > as there will be vast numbers operating= in worldwide controlled and uncontrolled
> >
> > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of a= pplications such as air taxis and
> >
> > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road= =E2=80=9D with the legacy terrestrial
> >
> > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G= , C-V2X and DSRC will
> >
> &g= t; be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in ip= wave.
> >
> >
> > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been de= veloped and
> >
> > tailore= d to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp=E2= =80=99 provides
> >
> > a s= calable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes associated w= ith
> >
> > mobile nodes su= ch as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft-templin-intarea-6706bis= =E2=80=99
> >
> > presents = the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and route
> >
> > optimization at the vehicul= ar level. Together, these technologies provide a
> >= ;
> > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical = and terrestrial mobile networking.
> >
> >
> > ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/
> >
> >
> &g= t; We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave. = We
> >
> > believe the comi= ng UAS applications will need to function in harmony with
> >
> > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive= a fit with this working group=E2=80=99s activities.
>= >
> > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see b= elow for a list of papers which have
> >
> > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comm= ents to the list.
> >
> >> > Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred
> >= ;
> >
> > Integrated Commun= ications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017:
> &= gt;
> > *******************************************= **********
> >
> > =E2=80= =9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D
> >
> > =E2=80=9CRequirements for a= n integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D
> >
> > https://ieee= xplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8011878"&a= mp;refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L.
> > Templin&pag= eNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >
> > IEEE Aerospace 2018:
> >
> > ****************
> >
> > =E2=80=9CReliable and secur= e surveillance, communications and navigation (RSCAN) for Unmanned Air Syst= ems (UAS)
> >
> > in contro= lled airspace=E2=80=9D
> >
> &= gt; https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/= mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8396361"&refinements=3DAut= hor:Denise S.
> > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&re= sultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >=
> > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surv= eillance (ICNS) 2018:
> >
> &g= t; *****************************************************
= > >
> > =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for un= controlled airspace=E2=80=9D
> >
= > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.or= g/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8384823"&refinements= =3DAuthor:Denise
> > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&= ;resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> &= gt;
> > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) = 2018:
> >
> > *************= ************************
> >
>= > =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, an= d Surveillance (CNS)
> >
> >= ; Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D
&g= t; >
> > = https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8569218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S.
> > P= onchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> = >
> >
> > IEEE Aerospace= 2019:
> >
> > ************= ****
> >
> > " Advancing th= e Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navigation and Surveill= ance"
> >
> > To be present= ed 3/3/2019
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > its mailing list
> >
> > its@ietf.org
> >
> > https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
> ________________= _______________________________
> its mailing list
> its@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

___________________________________= ____________
its mailing list
its@= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/its


<= /div>
------=_Part_8840912_1565486972.1547056026069-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 10:20:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CC5130FEB for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:20:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ty1C9VeUXwV8 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89E6C130F73 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09IKgDk001258; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:20:43 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-07.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.109]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09IKfjj032354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 13:20:41 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:20:39 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:20:39 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipAAHimZ0P/+rBIAgAB9jDA= Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:20:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 767FB4D31C61CA452DCDAF2C1796104F1E82D8BFCADE59DB62CA042A6EEAC1622000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_b2fbb25d08f54a33b429d5315d3c3a93boeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org 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<1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8882994_1145077752.1547058766663" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/71.0.3578.98 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:32:56 -0000 ------=_Part_8882994_1145077752.1547058766663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred, > That needs to change. I completely agree.=C2=A0 I am reaching out to IIT Kanpur who has an AirTax= i program.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The startup in my area is operating in stealth mode so unlikely that I will= get any traction there. =C2=A0I wonder if people are interested in having an informal discussion on= this topic in Prague?=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins ; "its@ietf.org" =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 10:20 AM Subject: RE: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave =20 #yiv5556230441 #yiv5556230441 -- _filtered #yiv5556230441 {font-family:Helv= etica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5556230441 {panose-1:2 = 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5556230441 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:= 2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv5556230441 #yiv5556230441 p.yiv5556230441MsoNorma= l, #yiv5556230441 li.yiv5556230441MsoNormal, #yiv5556230441 div.yiv55562304= 41MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:= New serif;}#yiv5556230441 a:link, #yiv5556230441 span.yiv5556230441MsoHyper= link {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5556230441 a:visited, #yiv5= 556230441 span.yiv5556230441MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decorat= ion:underline;}#yiv5556230441 span.yiv5556230441EmailStyle17 {font-family:s= ans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv5556230441 .yiv5556230441MsoChpDefault {font-s= ize:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv5556230441 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv= 5556230441 div.yiv5556230441WordSection1 {}#yiv5556230441 Hi Nalini, =C2= =A0 I don=E2=80=99t know why we haven=E2=80=99t seen these groups coming to= the IETF yet. I think they are thinking 5G in terms of their infrastructur= e-mode connectivity, but I do not think they have been thinking about IPv6,= OCB operations or even Internetworking in general as of yet. That needs to= change. =C2=A0 Thanks - Fred =C2=A0 From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:nalini= .elkins@insidethestack.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 9:47 AM To: Templin (US), Fred L ; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave =C2= =A0 Fred, =C2=A0 It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creati= ng their own protocols or if any standards are being used. =C2=A0 I assume= there is no concern about interoperability.=C2=A0 But, I would think at le= ast in terms of communicating with some type of controlling entity, one mig= ht wish there to be standardization. =C2=A0 Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 =C2=A0 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins ; "its@ietf.org" Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave =C2= =A0 Even more near-term are programs like Uber Elevate and Amazon Prime Air= : https://www.uber.com/us/en/elevate/ https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-Air/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D8037720011 Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 8:09 AM > To: Nalini J Elkins ;its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave >=20 > Hi Nalini, >=20 > These are great examples. They reminded me that NASA is starting a progra= m > called "Urban Air Mobility" (https://www.nasa.gov/uamgc) that will get st= arted > this year and extend into the early 2020s. I recommend folks take a look = at some > of the artists pictures there and the program FAQ. They show that air and= ground > vehicles will operate in the same RF airspace and therefore will need to = actively > coordinate with one another using compatible OCB comms gear. >=20 > Thanks - Fred >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 7:48 AM > > To: Templin (US), Fred L ;its@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave > > > > Fred, > > > > > > > With the advent of applications such as air taxis and personal air ve= hicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with the legacy terr= estrial > > vehicle deployment. > > > > This is a very interesting area.=C2=A0 I wanted to share information ab= out two AirTaxi implementations. > > > > In India, there is active work on AirTaxi at IIT Kanpur.=C2=A0 You may = be interested in the following article: "IIT-Kanpur, VTOL Aviation Sign > > $2.2 Mn MoU To Develop Flying Taxi Prototype" > > > > https://inc42.com/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-sign-mou-to-develop-fly= ing-taxi-prototype/ > > > > For any of you who know the incredible traffic problems in India, any s= olution would be a blessing! > > > > In the Monterey Bay area in California (my local community), there is a= startup working on AirTaxi.=C2=A0 You may be interested in the > > article: An ambitious flying taxi startup is setting up shop at the Mar= ina Municipal Airport" > > > > http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/an-ambitious-flying= -taxi-startup-is-setting-up-shop- > at/article_9f1a6616- > > abe8-11e8-b572-db5fa095cca5.html > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nalini Elkins > > CEO and Founder > > Inside Products, Inc. > > www.insidethestack.com > > (831) 659-8360 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "Templin (US), Fred L" > > To: "its@ietf.org" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:29 AM > > Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we > > > > have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanne= d > > > > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesti= ng challenge, > > > > as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and unc= ontrolled > > > > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as= air taxis and > > > > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D w= ith the legacy terrestrial > > > > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC= will > > > > be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in i= pwave. > > > > > > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and > > > > tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-a= tn-bgp=E2=80=99 provides > > > > a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes assoc= iated with > > > > mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft-templ= in-intarea-6706bis=E2=80=99 > > > > presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and rou= te > > > > optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provi= de a > > > > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile net= working. > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/ > > > > > > We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave.= We > > > > believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony wi= th > > > > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group=E2= =80=99s activities. > > > > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers whic= h have > > > > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list= . > > > > > > Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred > > > > > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017: > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > =E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > > > > =E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8011878"&refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L. > > Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > IEEE Aerospace 2018: > > > > **************** > > > > =E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigatio= n (RSCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) > > > > in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8396361"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018: > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8384823"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018: > > > > ************************************* > > > > =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and = Surveillance (CNS) > > > > Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D > > > > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8569218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > > > > > IEEE Aerospace 2019: > > > > **************** > > > > " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navig= ation and Surveillance" > > > > To be presented 3/3/2019 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > its mailing list > > > > its@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its=20 _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its =C2=A0=20 =20 ------=_Part_8882994_1145077752.1547058766663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<= span style=3D"font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Segoe UI"= , Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif; font-size: 14.66= 67px;">Fred,

> That needs to change.

I completely agree.  I am reaching ou= t to IIT Kanpur who has an AirTaxi program.  

<= /div>
The startup in my area is oper= ating in stealth mode so unlikely that I will get any traction there.
 I wonder i= f people are interested in having an informal discussion on this topic in P= rague?
 
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Produ= cts, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360



From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boe= ing.com>
To: Nalini= J Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; "its@ietf.org" <its@= ietf.org>
Sent: We= dnesday, January 9, 2019 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in= ipwave

Hi Nalini,
=20
&n= bsp;
=20
I d= on=E2=80=99t know why we haven=E2=80=99t seen these groups coming to the IE= TF yet.
=20
I t= hink they are thinking 5G in terms of their infrastructure-mode connectivit= y,
=20
but= I do not think they have been thinking about IPv6, OCB operations or even<= /span>
=20
Int= ernetworking in general as of yet. That needs to change.
=20
&n= bsp;
=20
Tha= nks - Fred
=20
&n= bsp;
=20
= From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:= nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 9:47 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; its@ietf= .org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwa= ve
=20
 
=20
Fred,
=20
 
=20
It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creating their o= wn protocols or if any standards are being used.
=20
 
=20
I assume there is no concern about interoperability.  But, I w= ould think at least in terms of communicating with some type of controlling= entity, one might wish there to be standardization.
=20
 
=20
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360
=20
 
=20

From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Nalini J Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com&g= t;; "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwa= ve
=20
 
=20
Even more near-term are programs like Uber Elevate and Amazon Prime= Air:

https://www.uber.com/us/en/elevate/
https://www.am= azon.com/Amazon-Prime-Air/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D8037720011

Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 8:09 AM
> To: Nalini J Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; its@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave=
>
> Hi Nalini,
>
> These are great examples. They reminded me that NASA is starting a pro= gram
> called "Urban Air Mobility" (https://www.nasa.gov/uamgc<= /a>) that will get started
> this year and extend into the early 2020s. I recommend folks take a lo= ok at some
> of the artists pictures there and the program FAQ. They show that air = and ground
> vehicles will operate in the same RF airspace and therefore will need = to actively
> coordinate with one another using compatible OCB comms gear.
>
> Thanks - Fred
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nalini J Elkins [mailto:
nalini.elkins@insidethestack.c= om]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 7:48 AM
> > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; its@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in i= pwave
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> >
> > > With the advent of applications such as air taxis and person= al air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with the le= gacy terrestrial
> > vehicle deployment.
> >
> > This is a very interesting area.  I wanted to share informat= ion about two AirTaxi implementations.
> >
> > In India, there is active work on AirTaxi at IIT Kanpur.  Yo= u may be interested in the following article: "IIT-Kanpur, VTOL Aviation Si= gn
> > $2.2 Mn MoU To Develop Flying Taxi Prototype"
> >
> > https://inc42.com/buzz/iit-kanpur-vtol-aviation-sign-mou-to-develop-flying-= taxi-prototype/
> >
> > For any of you who know the incredible traffic problems in India,= any solution would be a blessing!
> >
> > In the Monterey Bay area in California (my local community), ther= e is a startup working on AirTaxi.  You may be interested in the
> > article: An ambitious flying taxi startup is setting up shop at t= he Marina Municipal Airport"
> >
> > http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/an-ambitious-flying-tax= i-startup-is-setting-up-shop-
> at/article_9f1a6616-
> > abe8-11e8-b572-db5fa095cca5.html
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Nalini Elkins
> > CEO and Founder
> > Inside Products, Inc.
> > www.insidethestack.com
> > (831) 659-8360
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> > To: "its@ietf.org" <= ;its@ietf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2019 7:29 AM
> > Subject: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwav= e
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, = we
> >
> > have developed communications architectures for both manned and u= nmanned
> >
> > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an int= eresting challenge,
> >
> > as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled a= nd uncontrolled
> >
> > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications s= uch as air taxis and
> >
> > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2= =80=9D with the legacy terrestrial
> >
> > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X an= d DSRC will
> >
> > be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discusse= d in ipwave.
> >
> >
> > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been develop= ed and
> >
> > tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-r= tgwg-atn-bgp=E2=80=99 provides
> >
> > a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes= associated with
> >
> > mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft= -templin-intarea-6706bis=E2=80=99
> >
> > presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility a= nd route
> >
> > optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies= provide a
> >
> > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobi= le networking.
> >
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/
> >
> >
> > We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in i= pwave. We
> >
> > believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harm= ony with
> >
> > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working grou= p=E2=80=99s activities.
> >
> > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of paper= s which have
> >
> > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to th= e list.
> >
> >
> > Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred
> >
> >
> > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 201= 7:
> >
> > *****************************************************
> >
> > =E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2= =80=9D
> >
> > =E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2= =80=9D
> >
> > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8011878"&refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L.
> > Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >
> > IEEE Aerospace 2018:
> >
> > ****************
> >
> > =E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and nav= igation (RSCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)
> >
> > in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D
> >
> > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8396361"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S.
> > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >
> > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 201= 8:
> >
> > *****************************************************
> >
> > =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D=
> >
> > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8384823"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise
> > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >
> > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018:
> >
> > *************************************
> >
> > =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation= , and Surveillance (CNS)
> >
> > Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D
> >
> > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ= "8569218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S.
> > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
> >
> >
> > IEEE Aerospace 2019:
> >
> > ****************
> >
> > " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications,= Navigation and Surveillance"
> >
> > To be presented 3/3/2019
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > its mailing list
> >
> > its@ietf.org
> >
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/its
> _______________________________________________
> its mailing list
> its@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its=
=20

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its<= /span>
=20
 
=20


------=_Part_8882994_1145077752.1547058766663-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 10:44:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC40130F46 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDgWYmSxJLYY for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE820130F44 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 10:44:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5032; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1547059485; x=1548269085; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=2Ky2zNLhiDvc3H6kkXefjvLJUkKa3HbzBkE9wecbAHM=; b=GA0wldvYFDWoxiHr+cIjVV5BNbQx56sq4rvnsobbFViNnHBTGZbrahEj xEnnqMutPhZHeaIpYW/HWEtltc4L/3NSa34lFg3iXDNgr1BGP5hSPzYrq xeWlikZIZ7Rza3mq7RiOVLpEx0kMjvsNX/nG9Mj8FbDoW8SvnBuMS57oX 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAAB/QDZc/51dJa1JGhkBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEHAQEBAQEBgVEEAQEBAQELAYENdmaBAicKjBCNeYkeiHGFYxSBZws?= =?us-ascii?q?BASOBVIE+gTcCgh8iNAkNAQMBAQIBAQJtHAyFSgEBAQR5DgICAQgEDQMBAig?= =?us-ascii?q?HFgsRFAkIAgQBDQWDI4EdTAMVDzStFYQxAoNVDYIdBYw6F4FAP4N1LoEoGQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BFUcBAQECgSsBEgE/hR4iAo9XhHWBcIp9MwkChxeHMIM0GIIxj0ZCiSqEHmy?= =?us-ascii?q?BEookAhEUgScNEjhlcXAVgycJgW48hECEKoU/QTEBiBeBH4EfAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.56,458,1539648000"; d="scan'208,217";a="285695403" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jan 2019 18:44:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (xch-aln-006.cisco.com [173.36.7.16]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x09Iiilv005905 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:44:44 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (173.36.7.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:44:44 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:44:44 -0600 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUqEtjFI1feo8TOkikBAYcYQnVSw== Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 18:44:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.53] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D85B810E2E346Dsgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xch-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:44:48 -0000 --_000_D85B810E2E346Dsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sure, will do. Thanks Sri From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" > Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 at 7:59 AM To: Charlie Perkins >, Sri Gundavelli >, J= ung-Soo Park > Cc: "its@ietf.org" >= , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" > Subject: Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. Thanks for your volunteer help. Best Regards, Paul -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skk= u.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php --_000_D85B810E2E346Dsgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sure, will do.

Thanks
Sri


From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong&= quot; <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com<= /a>>
Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2019 at 7= :59 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <
Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>, Sri = Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com= >, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: "
its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.= org>, "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Subject: Request for IPWAVE PS Docu= ment Review

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,
As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on&= nbsp;
the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering= .

Thanks for your volunteer help.

Best Regards,
Paul
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.compauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
--_000_D85B810E2E346Dsgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:07:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B47131008 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:07:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vm1y6Rbdq329 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CD53131007 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:56b2:3ff:fe0b:d84]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBB03808A; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:07:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 5DB97D23; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:07:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B81E9D9; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:07:54 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Nalini J Elkins cc: "Templin \(US\)\, Fred L" , "its\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:07:57 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Nalini J Elkins wrote: > It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creating their own > protocols or if any standards are being used. I think that each will have to have standard aviation transponders to deal with the "is-that-a-drone-I-see" problem we've seen at Gatwick and Heathrow. (Not new technology really) > I assume there is no concern about interoperability. But, I would think > at least in terms of communicating with some type of controlling > entity, one might wish there to be standardization. Thanks, The first wave will be vertically integrated as you hypothesis, and standards won't matter, except when there are convenient off-the-shelf-systems that can be integrated. A standardization process of communication would probably evolve if market forces split operators and vendors into different companies. Another force might well be LEA requirements. A third situation would be whether or not the devices need to interoperate with land-based ITS. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlw2RooACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUcmQf/RpKe1+8kcBz1jH/6ppuVDN4LnoqBhkrlEWzBuWmTVRuRjPlmUZhcmDbc ggspZ5hdfEm0D4BJDHPxdWgRRsZPXlLUTjuNPGntkiAPoihwCFV3Z1mpBtYZGaqL OqZz4cCsvraO1J+ORnSl6LqgfZuBRlYOLwO3WaqZdbxc6Eh4DtS3jSsT+6XpRYBi 5iL4N7VKxNO5Gs9O92yTAP3btioaz/F2Q5RMRVl4xQLF+m8zLo3d9hgWkYzI7JtV SpezC4FKRlkbkVKkR6yTmvU4slkFt/rhLcaoYJcCH9AOiQaiJIyjPqrGm4KKdr8s lNbh9Z7/FwYbG3Yh1jBhdH0j3d6Qtw== =6qdU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:21:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDF613103D for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:20:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGiNS5wCQUzN for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CD5D130F6D for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09JKsYf027494; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:20:54 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-11.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.113]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09JKkwa026429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:20:46 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.113) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:20:44 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:20:44 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Michael Richardson , Nalini J Elkins CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipAAHimZ0P/+PJyY///9ZgA= Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:20:44 +0000 Message-ID: <82948dca28be4612b7925e757a1a349f@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> <25260.1547060874@localhost> In-Reply-To: <25260.1547060874@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: B488575535D4EDF8839E6C39E069E763373E2C36045887247F01C976AA7E116E2000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:21:00 -0000 Hi Michael, > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 11:08 AM > To: Nalini J Elkins > Cc: Templin (US), Fred L ; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave >=20 >=20 > Nalini J Elkins wrote: > > It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creating their o= wn > > protocols or if any standards are being used. >=20 > I think that each will have to have standard aviation transponders to > deal with the "is-that-a-drone-I-see" problem we've seen at Gatwick > and Heathrow. (Not new technology really) In aviation use cases, that would be Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcast (ADS-B), but it is notoriously insecure and the radio channels are already over-subscribed. That is why our NASA program developed "ADS/IP", which is transponder data over IP data links. This is discussed in our documents. Thanks - Fred > > I assume there is no concern about interoperability. But, I would t= hink > > at least in terms of communicating with some type of controlling > > entity, one might wish there to be standardization. Thanks, >=20 > The first wave will be vertically integrated as you hypothesis, and stand= ards > won't matter, except when there are convenient off-the-shelf-systems that= can > be integrated. A standardization process of communication would probably > evolve if market forces split operators and vendors into different > companies. >=20 > Another force might well be LEA requirements. > A third situation would be whether or not the devices need to interoperat= e > with land-based ITS. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- From nobody Wed Jan 9 11:25:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755BA131050 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:25:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Ql4bQ_YhEEW for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:25:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11993131026 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09JPZFR011283; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:25:35 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-07.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.109]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09JPR0T010157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 14:25:27 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:25:26 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 11:25:26 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Michael Richardson , Nalini J Elkins CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipAAHimZ0P/+PJyY///7zqA= Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 19:25:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1ff42010e17449379440ea3ec5a55942@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> <25260.1547060874@localhost> In-Reply-To: <25260.1547060874@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 88526944D7B198B20F3C0CD1002BAC6B7ADD39F35CE058D84699E89BB7FBD0212000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:25:39 -0000 Hi Michael, > A third situation would be whether or not the devices need to interoperat= e > with land-based ITS. Yes, that is why we are proposing the UAS employ DSRC, C-V2X, etc. the same as if they were a terrestrial vehicle. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2019 11:08 AM > To: Nalini J Elkins > Cc: Templin (US), Fred L ; its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave >=20 >=20 > Nalini J Elkins wrote: > > It would be very interesting to see if everyone is creating their o= wn > > protocols or if any standards are being used. >=20 > I think that each will have to have standard aviation transponders to > deal with the "is-that-a-drone-I-see" problem we've seen at Gatwick > and Heathrow. (Not new technology really) >=20 > > I assume there is no concern about interoperability. But, I would t= hink > > at least in terms of communicating with some type of controlling > > entity, one might wish there to be standardization. Thanks, >=20 > The first wave will be vertically integrated as you hypothesis, and stand= ards > won't matter, except when there are convenient off-the-shelf-systems that= can > be integrated. A standardization process of communication would probably > evolve if market forces split operators and vendors into different > companies. >=20 > Another force might well be LEA requirements. > A third situation would be whether or not the devices need to interoperat= e > with land-based ITS. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- From nobody Wed Jan 9 12:37:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164AE130EAB for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:37:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ZwzN2tj1K5v for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:37:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1B26130FDE for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x09Kbofj010559; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 15:37:51 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-11.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.113]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x09Kbhds010508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 9 Jan 2019 15:37:44 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.113) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:37:42 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:37:42 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Nalini J Elkins , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cAARrgQAABB9ipAAHimZ0P/+rBIAgAB9jDD//482AIAAY8Kw Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 20:37:42 +0000 Message-ID: <16caac84f6964f61aee05165adfb1699@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <1699126310.8779421.1547048876042@mail.yahoo.com> <6f42ebaae6a841d3a60f94ece5a960c4@boeing.com> <58155d31b244450e8fbff6dd4efec8d4@boeing.com> <1623494843.8840913.1547056026075@mail.yahoo.com> <902976295.8882995.1547058766671@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <902976295.8882995.1547058766671@mail.yahoo.com> 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h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VUL4Z0DaoO+7IhSBB2ikXJLBXtaHTElf9hj6bj/6Cb0=; b=h0HuCd6FGTvtkSeeygEtYzFpmuduQGVmfrR1fCvSuILEJD3qSx0VrZSl2IXWB+osAy HYOeKhOx8ygLlXgErj9v9GSvjllEt+pNnwcCPLtj2hXr2r8dN3NnOjl5lgo7M7yeDSdk 1li5LNyoZdOgVlsdzNvBZlRy2jFe/pt9WwVLv6GCmU4Kn6QM0TbbZY2FyxRL9qTjhrVA /CAnyL/Xvfg2h0kWjKT5BoaXe5cDRt5cvVbiFSfEorKqT8seTw9WSWQLxH+HNS1/BgoT iPgc8URTsNSLCkdzAx8OosZl2Bd1J+coH/XQkXo/H9rWvMcUb8Bsyr+Fpi3eI1mjthPX QtZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukcbPA+vhBn/tp+SkZW8RbAJBnCdC0q5cAtoE86Z+ZCJre6UQYYg I8zehO3Vp/QTkE0l7NvYe122NkauQIYOrGfy0K6OsA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5UwrNetXgAe7s+K/Bdw7Pa2Q6GIEiF+uP43nH6Os4tKCi8cB0fpdsBoLILBw5yz3CHxqoWIkX9UjS9HqpwYHY= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4586:: with SMTP id p6mr12580323wrq.69.1547204057815; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 02:54:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:54:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Sri Gundavelli , Jung-Soo Park , "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000042e888057f2c84e6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:54:23 -0000 --00000000000042e888057f2c84e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Fred, Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? Thanks, Carlos On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =========================== > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --00000000000042e888057f2c84e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

Thanks for your input. Can you= please elaborate why you think Air system related technologies should be c= overed by an IPWAVE WG document?

Thanks,

Carlos

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wro= te:

At first glance, this document appears to be= incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmon= ized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not consider th= e AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM sol= ution.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <= sgundave@cisco.com<= /a>>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on=C2=A0

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

=C2=A0

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

=C2=A0

Thanks for your volunteer help.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
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for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x0BGEgWj016072; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:14:43 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-12.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.114]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x0BGEYGh014766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:14:34 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.114) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:14:33 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:14:33 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO CC: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Sri Gundavelli , "Jung-Soo Park" , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUp2tJG1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jn6WpHBHAgAFTIID//9DlwA== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:14:33 +0000 Message-ID: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 25E949050C67A216EE817A8A0AB8A028C850E09DE30BC46EADF38BAA793483862000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88boeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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01xORZzT.ZOx_qGymdxhbpPR8KSVFDkQ5.hOoa2RI.ZX_k1gGhrsprXaVOvpa3eDsLN0.8yFv9MD Vql2U8XCmYbLISz88D1eUSq8oTX4swl3uJ9eh7LJ0A4AUaAm1BqY17W9uDgPjVvtL..mL Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:29:41 +0000 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:29:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Nalini J Elkins Reply-To: Nalini J Elkins To: "Templin (US), Fred L" , CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO Cc: Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , Sri Gundavelli Message-ID: <880450486.10068175.1547224176476@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10068174_802926778.1547224176472" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12857 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/71.0.3578.98 Safari/537.36 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:29:46 -0000 ------=_Part_10068174_802926778.1547224176472 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1=C2=A0Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO =20 Cc: Charlie Perkins ; Jung-Soo Park ; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; "its@ietf.org" ; Sri Gundavelli Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review =20 #yiv2299828121 #yiv2299828121 -- _filtered #yiv2299828121 {panose-1:2 4 5 3= 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2299828121 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 = 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv2299828121 #yiv2299828121 p.yiv2299828121MsoNormal, #y= iv2299828121 li.yiv2299828121MsoNormal, #yiv2299828121 div.yiv2299828121Mso= Normal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New s= erif;}#yiv2299828121 a:link, #yiv2299828121 span.yiv2299828121MsoHyperlink = {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2299828121 a:visited, #yiv229982= 8121 span.yiv2299828121MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:u= nderline;}#yiv2299828121 span.yiv2299828121EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-s= erif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv2299828121 .yiv2299828121MsoChpDefault {font-family= :sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv2299828121 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yi= v2299828121 div.yiv2299828121WordSection1 {}#yiv2299828121 Hi Carlos, =C2= =A0 There have already been a number of messages to the list giving substan= tiation of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, the = work in ipwave has been focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at gro= und level) whereas the near future urban mobility landscape will be in thre= e dimensions, including UAS=E2=80=99 in low altitude above ground level. = =C2=A0 Thanks - Fred =C2=A0 From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjb= c@it.uc3m.es] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM To: Templin (US), Fred L Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli ; Jung-Soo Park = ; its@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review =C2=A0 Hi Fred= , =C2=A0 Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air= system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? = =C2=A0 Thanks, =C2=A0 Carlos =C2=A0 On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Temp= lin (US), Fred L wrote:=20 At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not cons= ider the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy= ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking solut= ion, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. =C2=A0 Thanks - Fred =C2=A0 F= rom: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM To: Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli ; Jung-Soo Park Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ;its@ietf.org Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review =C2=A0 Hi Charlie, = Sri, and Jung-Soo, As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me y= our review on=C2=A0 the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? http= s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 =C2=A0 We= need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. =C2= =A0 Thanks for your volunteer help. =C2=A0 Best Regards, Paul -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php ________= _______________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its=20 _______________________________________________ its mailing list its@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its =20 ------=_Part_10068174_802926778.1547224176472 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1
 =
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360



= From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> To: CARLOS JESUS BERNAR= DOS CANO <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>
= Cc: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Jung-Soo= Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail= .com>; "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@= cisco.com>
Sent: Fr= iday, January 11, 2019 8:14 AM
Su= bject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

Hi Carlos,
=20
 
=20
There have already been a number of messages to the list giving= substantiation
=20
of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, = the work in ipwave has
=20
bee= n focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at ground level) whereas the=
=20
nea= r future urban mobility landscape will be in three dimensions, including UA= S=E2=80=99
=20
in = low altitude above ground level.
=20
&n= bsp;
=20
Tha= nks - Fred
=20
=20
&n= bsp;
=20
= From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS C= ANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie P= erkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisc= o.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review
=20
 
=20
Hi Fred,
=20
 
=20
Thanks for your input. Can you please= elaborate why you think Air system related technologies should be covered = by an IPWAVE WG document?
=20
 
=20
Thanks,
=20
 
=20
Carlos
=20
 
=20
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Temp= lin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
=20
At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does = not consider
=20
the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with leg= acy
=20
ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networkin= g
=20
solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution.
=20
 
=20
Thanks - Fred
=20
 
=20
From: its [mailto:<= a rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org" t= arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org">its-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli= <sgundave@cisco.com<= /a>>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@e= tri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review
= =20
 
=20
Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-= Soo,
=20
As you agreed last IETF-10= 3 meeting, could you give me your review on 
=20
the IPWAVE PS Document by = January 15, 2019 in EST?
=20
 
=20
We need to move forward wi= th this document and the IPWAVE rechartering.
=20
 
=20
Thanks for your volunteer = help.
=20
 
=20
Best Regards,
=20
Paul
--
=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.p= aul@gmail.com= pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
=20
_____________________________________= __________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its<= /div>=20
__________________= _____________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/its


------=_Part_10068174_802926778.1547224176472-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 08:35:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B95124BF6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E7JzKPKH2OmI for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B0801228B7 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id u4so15871122wrp.3 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:35:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=it-uc3m-es.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SrSzY/+iWScWM6m021CCjIu10Qw9WrotxgAEHLE02pM=; b=1Cka1kqt1Ty8X80cMvFO4VGWuul7Lx/z7mH075H0PkhBFLeRLYIJMceCG90eG8Rr+K 4peYTW7FhRfRO/BbKntaB4+90exilDOIJd+BK1aHtedB3Wa27DNQAHpnS1advF2IZlg3 AEGopALmIRI9hgKapx1dvGxN4LmZbk1hDlRqSnsWX3NM23lvYclNzhcWkfENS0vt5lcF WLDG/zMyRuuZthHzsr5QkGyO2PQPLPZmxpMes/SlpJkUbPxrV4+eSq0WUDc6vns/9Vw0 2UGptCeLgv4cADhzY3/oCEs6D6fJQHgAjVV61JcYtnV1bxDcIcHbp26g7k4msYDuI8Lo h6Dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SrSzY/+iWScWM6m021CCjIu10Qw9WrotxgAEHLE02pM=; b=tW5foZcXBMAZ/0Fi0pHfR4iP0AdxfsWHiRgnzih9L5SvkJ5yuGeOf00JM56M0wkmH9 Yg1HFR31rjV1Uti6AIoc2c3LfuziyRHzLd+pzsJwALq0N2m5rwBWZ3lz4G49/KQZWo9Y G9JkUqw5QWnDJdIM3Lh3I0Rz1q0CdN58Ax62+qSAViIAZrLPLzYnWIjzfbNlutB6pqOW CecAhdZXX+boniaYjftO9hddSaVFlljFuuv4Omac3QfEke10Jz0tOTDc2LygtAnQULdD XbEgb2NBcdTQgJ92RBoYKP2USa4g1kuqpIZKecVAbcdrcTZLV399n0MgLAwdZmT0Fsom NM8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukf1YY2SHOXlwWOtz3PBFkJ82lsXJpDOsUwk0jsq8pNclaRRdXEG b7xnhipSyO2RAPogX4tcJKDCSyLZ9rhRjFDUD1clmQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7ksTCasU82zhZenvf43L1aZb3wzsLkNLXbTUr0j+/2v0JaczJtec0V/aDK43fuOUSmXBoGwOXfwjITrY1HZbI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4586:: with SMTP id p6mr13776330wrq.69.1547224550817; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:35:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Sri Gundavelli , Jung-Soo Park , "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bd6790057f31495f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:35:58 -0000 --000000000000bd6790057f31495f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred, Yes, I saw the e-mails, and I see value on the technical problem. But I think we should also be careful with opening too much the scope of what the PS document looks at. So, I'd suggest document authors to limit the scope of what they actually include. If, as you mentioned in the e-mail thread, technologies used for terrestrial vehicles can be used for UAS, documenting this is fine. But I think it would be good not to open the document for the whole plethora of aeronautic-focused solutions that exist (I know some of them have been discussed in the IETF already). Thanks, Carlos On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Hi Carlos, > > > > There have already been a number of messages to the list giving > substantiation > > of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, the work i= n ipwave > has > > been focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at ground level) wherea= s > the > > near future urban mobility landscape will be in three dimensions, > including UAS=E2=80=99 > > in low altitude above ground level. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es] > *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli ; > Jung-Soo Park ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air system > related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --000000000000bd6790057f31495f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

Yes, I saw the e-mails, and I = see value on the technical problem. But I think we should also be careful w= ith opening too much the scope of what the PS document looks at. So, I'= d suggest document authors to limit the scope of what they actually include= .

If, as you mentioned in the e-mail thread, techn= ologies used for terrestrial vehicles can be used for UAS, documenting this= is fine. But I think it would be good not to open the document for the who= le plethora of aeronautic-focused solutions that exist (I know some of them= have been discussed in the IETF already).

Thanks,=

Carlos


On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:14 PM Templin (= US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,

=C2=A0

There have already been a number of messages= to the list giving substantiation

of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repea= t those here. But, the work in ipwave has

been focused only on two dimensions (all veh= icles at ground level) whereas the

near future urban mobility landscape will be= in three dimensions, including UAS=E2=80=99

in low altitude above ground level.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie Perkins <= Charlie.Per= kins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why = you think Air system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG= document?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Carlos

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred = L <Fred.L= .Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

At first glance, this document appears to be= incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmon= ized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not consider th= e AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM sol= ution.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <= sgundave@cisco.com<= /a>>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on=C2=A0

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

=C2=A0

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

=C2=A0

Thanks for your volunteer help.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

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BERNARDOS CANO CC: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Sri Gundavelli , "Jung-Soo Park" , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUp2tJG1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jn6WpHBHAgAFTIID//9DlwIAAjogA//9+T/A= Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:56:19 +0000 Message-ID: <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: A7944F02027E810BAF958AF0797EC977FFB11D1FABA0769D6E7EB70206FD687A2000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30boeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , 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dGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30boeingcom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 08:57:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E46126CB6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:57:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.142, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OFZNNNGnvBiS for ; Fri, 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jan 2019 16:57:35 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (xch-aln-008.cisco.com [173.36.7.18]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x0BGvZbq011033 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:57:35 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:57:34 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:57:34 -0600 From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" To: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park CC: "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUqc6/G1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jnw== Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:57:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.188.53] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D85E0A4A2E4247sgundaveciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.18, xch-aln-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:57:39 -0000 --_000_D85E0A4A2E4247sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Including Air safety (and even Rail) use-cases in IPWAVE PS document in an = interesting point. I don't have an opinion on that, but I am curious if SAE= safety messages covers all those use-cases? Are these SDO's like SAE looki= ng at these problems? Sri From: "Templin (US), Fred L" > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 2:43 PM To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" >, Charlie Perkins >, Sri Gundavelli >, Jung-Soo Park > Cc: "its@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not cons= ider the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. Thanks - Fred From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM To: Charlie Perkins >; Sri Gundavelli >; J= ung-Soo Park > Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong >; its@ietf.org Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. Thanks for your volunteer help. Best Regards, Paul -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skk= u.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php --_000_D85E0A4A2E4247sgundaveciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <915FA9897FF4474B9C318627AF94B283@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Including Air safety (and even Rail) use-cases in IPWAVE PS document i= n an interesting point. I don’t have an opinion on that, but I am cur= ious if SAE safety messages covers all those use-cases? Are these SDO’= ;s like SAE looking at these problems?

Sri




From: "Templin (US), Fred L&qu= ot; <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.= com>
Date: Thursday, January 10, 2019 at= 2:43 PM
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong&qu= ot; <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>, Charlie Perkins <Ch= arlie.Perkins@huawei.com>, Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>, Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>=
Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.= org>
Subject: RE: [ipwave] Request for I= PWAVE PS Document Review

At first glance, this document appear= s to be incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in= harmonized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not cons= ider the AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-based = DMM solution.

 

Thanks - Fred

 

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

 

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on 

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

 

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

 

Thanks for your volunteer help.

 

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.compauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

--_000_D85E0A4A2E4247sgundaveciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Jan 11 09:02:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C050126CB6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v6L7ZUhC0wlR for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf1-x432.google.com (mail-pf1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58E06124BF6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf1-x432.google.com with SMTP id w73so7211331pfk.10 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=DBs9hUB/MgpI/Y0uaWSfHRUbZZfaVVESETqKEQx3DB8=; b=ttd+P5QEYtPdc0ZBQ5Cs9n/H6tPUD2fZ648+Wl7SpHOMmlfJs4U37RV5nh5emqP/7t hjOZdnlTm4giW5w/GuB3MDiQ6hplNTKZYfPvQJwhTK1pu/E5XsmE8dAuLZmAW2UqPOqt HsWctRaFPctGlqBK3bRb8Q9jYqSyhjtKhAZfrA0lqADlXIH65aQ5oNAR8r5K8tU2ROr7 Gx7mpq+PmDqNZhNTgYqwqAotfG4YUTohCHo9dmWVlhAk/gLSNsSycoOmTyrHYco/uebC XzwT6zwDcA1ZgRa87YpK2dKxFN3cRtxbjPhcD7NlSFqjSok8suAjd5mojVIjtHReCU8D yP7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=DBs9hUB/MgpI/Y0uaWSfHRUbZZfaVVESETqKEQx3DB8=; b=AGnvo5aEs4uWuHexVVATq1wZYOXbWHV1/ZRJRHItUSh3Fh/vEEQKbX7geBJ21aoPOf UnG6EtmYJPEfga4ZNZlbKDxmakEbYWXT5/ktOPrCVRtDjr1i7OwQL3L4wMdVJbzJmmRf XisdDGWU7xSKVzqp5RlavrpDPtW+OjLx+eT3GN50w4j0CJ2sYwhrtke4Ylqo/fLvf0cf iBidGsAv+Y4sxg0RSe6aVEqsyOeoppUtWLMhh8Yfx6/E9AjeK7Kw+zSrz1011hgAaB6V fynvuzLH9Rbyb/0wTpjvCpHmqd5KRGNSJ7D8eKiHPrQed5Z0U/mMzw3GPdacubM6ME7i F9Fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdEbcvaxBP1JPLKRyGqzFBsi52FzJgYTtfeJvJAZmxAuKZvuATm nAJeww8z6ppU6i8ioYyThWQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6rWR7u7gUAKIfSY/ORGH+T7wYurRVl835XrI3T12m9dFxtqg7cUFcvoQceucNIJzTnboqRqg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5ec6:: with SMTP id s189mr13534212pgb.357.1547226128811; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.22.228.216] ([162.210.130.3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p67sm132739419pfg.44.2019.01.11.09.02.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:07 -0800 (PST) Sender: Tony Li From: tony.li@tony.li Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1B521547-0BBD-43A0-A315-D35C4B960D70" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:02:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> Cc: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , Sri Gundavelli To: "Templin, Fred L" References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:02:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1B521547-0BBD-43A0-A315-D35C4B960D70 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:56 AM, Templin (US), Fred L = wrote: >=20 > I am not suggesting a whole plethora of aeronautic solutions (e.g., = commercial aviation), > but small UAS operating at low altitudes are coming, and coming soon. = Urban mobility > will be a three dimensional problem and not a two dimensional one for = which the > document is currently limited. My recollection is that the purpose of the WG was to standardize the use = of IP over OCB. I don=E2=80=99t particularly care if it=E2=80=99s based on a truck, car, = chopper, or drone, but focusing on that specific problem should be retained. If folks want to work on other stuff, that should be a _different_ WG. Tony --Apple-Mail=_1B521547-0BBD-43A0-A315-D35C4B960D70 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:56 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

I = am not suggesting a whole plethora of aeronautic solutions (e.g., = commercial aviation),
but small UAS operating at low altitudes = are coming, and coming soon. Urban mobility
will be a three = dimensional problem and not a two dimensional one for which the
document is currently = limited.


My recollection is that = the purpose of the WG was to standardize the use of IP over = OCB.

I don=E2=80= =99t particularly care if it=E2=80=99s based on a truck, car, chopper, = or drone, but focusing on that specific
problem = should be retained.

If folks want to work on other stuff, that should be a = _different_ WG.

Tony

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ESMTPS id BD8F8126CB6 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x0BHe7ad001421; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:40:07 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-09.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.111]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x0BHdtMb031955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:39:55 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:39:53 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:39:53 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "tony.li@tony.li" CC: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , "Sri Gundavelli" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUp2tJG1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jn6WpHBHAgAFTIID//9DlwIAAjogA//9+T/CAAIkcgP//gvXA Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:39:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: D5B008112861E5C7BB59E7498CB8A7E3C004D23E526CA3D8741EB3D295D57AA62000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_b917f90041924f939cabd4b801dcbc7bboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular 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its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5C41200B3; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:09:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ta2RaecHM9Mq; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:09:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A1DF130DE5; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:09:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x0BM9roH030728; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:09:53 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-07.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.109]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x0BM9lPt029687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:09:47 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:09:45 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f]) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f%6]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:09:45 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "i-d-announce@ietf.org" CC: "its@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHUqffFIbjbHun10E6VDqHT6KYGU6Wqnrnw Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 22:09:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 6B6F7E18104FE954532D58464E4F6559B60500CE6DC63FEA5783E3DAFEA7F5672000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 22:09:58 -0000 Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. Mos= tly points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "St= ub AS Mobile Routing Services". Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-post= ing to ipwave and dmm due to interest there. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@= ietf.org > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the IET= F. >=20 > Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for th= e Aeronautical Telecommunications Network > Authors : Fred L. Templin > Greg Saccone > Gaurav Dawra > Acee Lindem > Victor Moreno > Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt > Pages : 18 > Date : 2019-01-11 >=20 > Abstract: > The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigating > mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical > Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS). > The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services > with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic > Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline > Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide. > This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobile > routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/IPS > requirements. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg From nobody Fri Jan 11 15:07:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A375128D0C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:07:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7lpFlX3L_E5g for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA300128AFB for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BN7D2B183302 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:07:13 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 613CB20558F for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:07:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D6B201BE8 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:07:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.68.1] ([10.8.68.1]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BN7Co0028240 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:07:12 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:07:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:07:18 -0000 I did see a couple of demos of self-driving connected cars involving drones. In the most recent the car is talking to a drone that is looking for a parking slot. The drone has better view from above ground, than the car. The drone talks to Internet on 4G; the drone talks to human operator on WiFi 5GHz; the drone also has some IP/WiFi 2.4GHz stack. The car sends CAM messages at 5.9GHz. Obviously I asked the programmers whether their done talks 802.11 OCB, or CAMs, but they said that is not allowed on the drone. The technical aspect that would prevent drones to talk 802.11-OCB is probably the size and price of 802.11-OCB. For example, the small raspberry pis carried by these drones are not known to support 802.11-OCB (just like mobile smartphones are not known to do 802.11 OCB) even though they do support easily 4G and WiFi. Putting IP/802.11-OCB on drone would be of some help, provided it does not bring additional weight, consumption, cost. Alex Le 11/01/2019 17:57, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a crit: > Including Air safety (and even Rail) use-cases in IPWAVE PS document in > an interesting point. I dont have an opinion on that, but I am curious > if SAE safety messages covers all those use-cases? Are these SDOs like > SAE looking at these problems? > > Sri > > > > > From: "Templin (US), Fred L" > > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 2:43 PM > To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" >, Charlie Perkins > >, Sri > Gundavelli >, Jung-Soo > Park > > Cc: "its@ietf.org " > > Subject: RE: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > Thanks - Fred > > *From:*its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins >; Sri Gundavelli >; Jung-Soo Park > > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong >; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =========================== > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com , > pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Fri Jan 11 15:20:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A293A128D0C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:20:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M30iNE_xiJF7 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9416B128B14 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:20:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BNKLYS043482 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:21 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 433F5205638 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EF3203A82 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.68.1] ([10.8.68.1]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BNKKIx029769 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:20 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <5315305d-db54-d859-a760-39836e895a00@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:20:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:20:27 -0000 Le 09/01/2019 à 16:29, Templin (US), Fred L a écrit : > Hello, > > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we > have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanned > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesting challenge, > as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and uncontrolled > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as air taxis I wanted to ask whether these air taxies see any necessity in platooning. Trucks on road do see such necessity, in that they may save fuel and driver time. Grounded automated taxis may see need in platooning in that the re-balancing of taxis from station to station may be helped when platooning. For both of these (trucks and grounded taxis) there are alternatives proposed against platooning: truck carrying by another track, and independent (non platoon) rebalancing. But for air taxis, I have no idea whether or not they consider platooning of air taxis. Alex and > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon “share the road” with the legacy terrestrial > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC will > be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in ipwave. > > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and > tailored to the mobile networking use case. ‘draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp’ provides > a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes associated with > mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. ‘draft-templin-intarea-6706bis’ > presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and route > optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provide a > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile networking. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/ > > We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave. We > believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony with > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group’s activities. > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers which have > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list. > > Thanks – Fred > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017: > ***************************************************** > “Considerations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture” > “Requirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture” > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=issueId EQ "8011878"&refinements=Author:Fred L. Templin&pageNumber=1&resultAction=REFINE > > IEEE Aerospace 2018: > **************** > “Reliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigation (RSCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) > in controlled airspace” > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=issueId EQ "8396361"&refinements=Author:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=1&resultAction=REFINE > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018: > ***************************************************** > “UAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace” > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=issueId EQ "8384823"&refinements=Author:Denise Ponchak&pageNumber=1&resultAction=REFINE > > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018: > ************************************* > “An Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance (CNS) > Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)” > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=issueId EQ "8569218"&refinements=Author:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=1&resultAction=REFINE > > IEEE Aerospace 2019: > **************** > " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navigation and Surveillance" > To be presented 3/3/2019 > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Fri Jan 11 15:25:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5CF6128D0C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:25:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QD21-Ij6JQXQ for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D897128AFB for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 15:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BNP17j186770 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:25:01 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 8BA22202CBB for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:25:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81751201C2E for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:25:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.68.1] ([10.8.68.1]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0BNOxSd030096 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:25:00 +0100 To: its@ietf.org References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 00:24:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 23:25:06 -0000 Fred, The subnet structure in a convoy (platoon) is very particular. It is not an arbitrary graph. There is always a rigid subnet in a car, and there is always a car in front and a car in the back. That said, is BGP appropriate for it? Isnt BGP overkill? Is BGP running on small embedded platforms. Can BGP work when the links between cars have only link-local addresses. Why should we consider 'stub' networks when in a convoy (platoon) there is no notion of 'stub'. I never heard anyone doing convoys telling this word 'stub'. Alex Le 11/01/2019 à 23:09, Templin (US), Fred L a écrit : > Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. Mostly > points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "Stub AS Mobile > Routing Services". > > Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-posting to > ipwave and dmm due to interest there. > > Thanks - Fred > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical Telecommunications Network >> Authors : Fred L. Templin >> Greg Saccone >> Gaurav Dawra >> Acee Lindem >> Victor Moreno >> Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> Pages : 18 >> Date : 2019-01-11 >> >> Abstract: >> The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigating >> mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical >> Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS). >> The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services >> with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic >> Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline >> Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide. >> This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobile >> routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/IPS >> requirements. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtgwg mailing list >> rtgwg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > From nobody Sat Jan 12 01:13:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB99130F7C for ; 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Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:13:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:12:49 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , Sri Gundavelli Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000010b066057f3f3838" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:13:07 -0000 --00000000000010b066057f3f3838 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred, I am not interested in air system to be included (or I am against the idea because makes more complications) because it has different physical communication problems, IMHO we cannot mix land communication with air communication they are with different environments and different systems. AB On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Hi Carlos, > > > > There have already been a number of messages to the list giving > substantiation > > of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, the work i= n ipwave > has > > been focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at ground level) wherea= s > the > > near future urban mobility landscape will be in three dimensions, > including UAS=E2=80=99 > > in low altitude above ground level. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es] > *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli ; > Jung-Soo Park ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air system > related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --00000000000010b066057f3f3838 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

I am not interested= in air system to be included (or I am against the idea because makes more = complications)=C2=A0because it has different physical communication problem= s, IMHO we cannot mix land communication with air communication they are wi= th different environments and different systems.

A= B

On Fri, Jan 11, = 2019 at 6:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,<= /p>

=C2=A0

There have already been a number= of messages to the list giving substantiation

of the UAS use case so I won=E2= =80=99t repeat those here. But, the work in ipwave has=

been focused only on two dimensi= ons (all vehicles at ground level) whereas the

near future urban mobility lands= cape will be in three dimensions, including UAS=E2=80=99

in low altitude above ground lev= el.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailt= o:cjbc@it.uc3m.es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie Perkins <= Charlie.Per= kins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why = you think Air system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG= document?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Carlos

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred = L <Fred.L= .Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

At first glance, this document a= ppears to be incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Syste= ms in harmonized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not= consider the AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-b= ased DMM solution.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <= sgundave@cisco.com<= /a>>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on=C2=A0

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

=C2=A0

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

=C2=A0

Thanks for your volunteer help.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
--00000000000010b066057f3f3838-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 01:19:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FD8129A87 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:19:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id obotx3tGNPDk for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x236.google.com (mail-oi1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 311ED128D09 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x236.google.com with SMTP id m6so14207606oig.11 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:19:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/QW78EngtRyr209HSUTEfQwrbZ0f1271pJh+fOfW76Q=; b=RaqbAijzIPZHaGIzo/yDpTtjGrSrvk0y+Qp5lWUUw42srA7ojJaoy6FcyjWNQvouJN 9IkD6Au3o0EYKpSlIjqVS4u8+QIQ30TagVmf9w/h509GHiYGC/9ncGQVsmAM2bM7gcOw 1Qf/CFzjGfuRbybaD1oJNjen3jAHOPWN/60pWfrY+f5Pr0xnX/eMJ/plsM1K+xZvJGw6 LKGwo6TC7hoze4AQ8m3zz/VgopIy0JogWG8KQs64LsuzTNmBtEJyc6eFt9DB8FDWteLD cSqwBp2wOjjzdi9Q4yVrxnVWyFo7vfwY5kPrJwkg1nPKdwimGWTdz8ZrWlTlgDacpzHJ 1vMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/QW78EngtRyr209HSUTEfQwrbZ0f1271pJh+fOfW76Q=; b=LN+y/gWSeNbMLVQyywv1svxEvbTaY3Zv4F+W/Hjgr2iHgRa2UKU8yFdVXtXMNy6t7e RWCCXeD/XVCO2xGZVBmn6Wcz6zD28SkUNNNyxjKS0A/HTRRoFfzwBrIZLT3b7wQbory/ uCND4EQudFOv7+GmF6mQW448lE2V20ROzEx92kmtoARHjbU+iB2CbK3a0vCTS+Hrt7M2 eoCRQh5ucS8EXu4hNOMUKtpZEGRUJApK5tFtCmIS4RS48BYuWuvJ0uQaQd/epLy6iwAV 0+NxsNpyBxJvfdLwT0Uu/yrUkIL6N9A3iz17GfINoT5QLe/1wfY3CcckOxAzKTg8oa7d C//A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdl3CiITg38COFUw8o1tnS9vzhgu4l626qUCG/cgElcAXNQ9Wx8 6yntcDtlO73110I9ETJycWCI3+XkTLFrlA3GGSs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5vaI4huSI0qnTXFFqxfd1cEDoqZ9dJpA2DAWbbbJqJOhNULv988wKgXqs94Co5aTFwA/GYZrEGF5CaYX2fYNU= X-Received: by 2002:aca:2d3:: with SMTP id 202mr10740875oic.214.1547284747543; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:19:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <07e14a2ab0dd4a9899f3aa9d45ef4e30@boeing.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:18:53 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , Sri Gundavelli Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be6c51057f3f4de7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:19:11 -0000 --000000000000be6c51057f3f4de7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred, we are not doing two dimensions, I disagree because land communication systems are three dimensions, no doubt because the land and roads has ups and downs, on car on the bridge and cars unders the bridge, car parks are in buildings three dimensions. AB On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:56 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Hi Carlos, > > > > I am not suggesting a whole plethora of aeronautic solutions (e.g., > commercial aviation), > > but small UAS operating at low altitudes are coming, and coming soon. > Urban mobility > > will be a three dimensional problem and not a two dimensional one for > which the > > document is currently limited. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es] > *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2019 8:36 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli ; > Jung-Soo Park ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Yes, I saw the e-mails, and I see value on the technical problem. But I > think we should also be careful with opening too much the scope of what t= he > PS document looks at. So, I'd suggest document authors to limit the scope > of what they actually include. > > > > If, as you mentioned in the e-mail thread, technologies used for > terrestrial vehicles can be used for UAS, documenting this is fine. But I > think it would be good not to open the document for the whole plethora of > aeronautic-focused solutions that exist (I know some of them have been > discussed in the IETF already). > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Hi Carlos, > > > > There have already been a number of messages to the list giving > substantiation > > of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, the work i= n ipwave > has > > been focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at ground level) wherea= s > the > > near future urban mobility landscape will be in three dimensions, > including UAS=E2=80=99 > > in low altitude above ground level. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es] > *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli ; > Jung-Soo Park ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air system > related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --000000000000be6c51057f3f4de7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

we=C2=A0 are not do= ing two dimensions, I disagree because land communication systems are three= dimensions, no doubt because the land and roads=C2=A0has ups and downs, on= car on the bridge and cars unders the bridge, car parks are in buildings t= hree dimensions.

AB=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:56 PM Temp= lin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Te= mplin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,<= /p>

=C2=A0

I am not suggesting a whole plet= hora of aeronautic solutions (e.g., commercial aviation),

but small UAS operating at low a= ltitudes are coming, and coming soon. Urban mobility

will be a three dimensional prob= lem and not a two dimensional one for which the

document is currently limited.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailt= o:cjbc@it.uc3m.es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 8:36 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie Perkins <= Charlie.Per= kins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

Yes, I saw the e-mails, and I see value on the techn= ical problem. But I think we should also be careful with opening too much t= he scope of what the PS document looks at. So, I'd suggest document aut= hors to limit the scope of what they actually include.

=C2=A0

If, as you mentioned in the e-mail thread, technolog= ies used for terrestrial vehicles can be used for UAS, documenting this is = fine. But I think it would be good not to open the document for the whole p= lethora of aeronautic-focused solutions that exist (I know some of them have been discussed in the IETF already).<= u>

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Carlos

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L= <Fred.L.= Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,<= /p>

=C2=A0

There have already been a number= of messages to the list giving substantiation

of the UAS use case so I won=E2= =80=99t repeat those here. But, the work in ipwave has=

been focused only on two dimensi= ons (all vehicles at ground level) whereas the

near future urban mobility lands= cape will be in three dimensions, including UAS=E2=80=99

in low altitude above ground lev= el.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailt= o:cjbc@it.uc3m.es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie Perkins <= Charlie.Per= kins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@= etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why = you think Air system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG= document?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Carlos

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred = L <Fred.L= .Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

At first glance, this document a= ppears to be incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Syste= ms in harmonized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not= consider the AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-b= ased DMM solution.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <= sgundave@cisco.com<= /a>>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on=C2=A0

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

=C2=A0

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

=C2=A0

Thanks for your volunteer help.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
--000000000000be6c51057f3f4de7-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 01:28:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ACF128D09 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:28:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CTDl7jkio3we for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x333.google.com (mail-ot1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B1D212E7C1 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x333.google.com with SMTP id v23so15321180otk.9 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:28:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aEifzpb9SZalUcvwVSrvhBG5HqzH4EIR+tu4xedNCOc=; b=NKvLg5Wwdl5X0u+TA8sHfFdsICkmApAn/qMitOJsmg5eJgi9YxEs1DhU/9sMW9jmzg fLdItJBJn968QEWAOE93Y42KoLHM3Bm64AajB3DZ4CHQaiwPpqXCvjrcGWj9+ntrVX45 LN+3vWPllGkJLKmCNYp/pEdHBBbKnhWlSxosa7QiX1hXGf0fYnahiEujLEq4XwPWpDek lBCz0brq5RP6rhRGQsKtPLgIVnbuIWxpYCibWmujWHSEZtvZjIqlKrKIJXDUBq2on/E6 u8wAd/H0jnAmy0R9vof2paKvAtG8YHf/RjHC/fc+8lcly1/Zl5HL9bSjR9C8YgpYO9ul Xx2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aEifzpb9SZalUcvwVSrvhBG5HqzH4EIR+tu4xedNCOc=; b=X0ZeHoxLD8fJqacC10IYQLNiYGSaHfPNfWCsxlwKZIeZyRMVVcy5VRKIekx8Esi4m9 kF2+rNPWDAXrlEYxiZmTH6K1nKBu0Oe3H/MPzL9f8SPs+5hRPWZP9O7bTSdtIc9CvIIp ilFYmOMr2P82C9xHZiniA4zk2pFhXaClW7ayioK0wb11M24qtZZ/96XaTSkpBzl4gLTV QaRT6MiwZct+tdJs4ZoXdlD9J7NyNSiVDihqvrXSlRiug817OOSl708XbWhrLlQ3N2tx 6l30xQ32Tulr+aF4IbUDVgIYSArkd+yFrAaNAMKth7GxXTZuuxB9/LGaytjQqCrcW59k yOQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdgxfF+mg7Fx3mxzz9wntWWeWNZW1Jl54m5OmD7bvjFMQJHs5G4 RxlYRQyeqwBEy3cgnx563NzD+P6Oa/zb+SBsMxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4g2ZCr8beh3fAiAk5TXiq8t4JOo5gPmIiio2puaTo8kdljXlKW8DJ/oOomRDzVgt1SKvRKt4ssyBMlMzTdckU= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7c8c:: with SMTP id q12mr12571511otn.166.1547285310412; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 01:28:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> From: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 11:28:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b1cad057f3f6f80" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:28:34 -0000 --0000000000004b1cad057f3f6f80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred, UAS application is not included in ITS, it is different system or different with purposes, please note that the ITS is not a general purpose system, it is better that it is a special purpose that can be extended in future as the internet system done. We need to focus on the Car Land communication system only while integrated with internet systems. UAS is mostly ad hoc systems, that is done in IETF MANET WG, AB On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 5:29 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Hello, > > Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we > have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanned > aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesting > challenge, > as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and > uncontrolled > air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as > air taxis and > personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D wit= h the legacy > terrestrial > vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC > will > be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in > ipwave. > > Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and > tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn= -bgp=E2=80=99 > provides > a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes > associated with > mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. > =E2=80=98draft-templin-intarea-6706bis=E2=80=99 > presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and route > optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provide= a > comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile > networking. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/ > > We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave. W= e > believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony with > terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group=E2=80= =99s > activities. > In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers which > have > been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list. > > Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017: > ***************************************************** > =E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > =E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ > "8011878"&refinements=3DAuthor:Fred L. > Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > IEEE Aerospace 2018: > **************** > =E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigation = (RSCAN) > for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) > in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ > "8396361"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018: > ***************************************************** > =E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ > "8384823"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction= =3DREFINE > > Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018: > ************************************* > =E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and > Surveillance (CNS) > Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ > "8569218"&refinements=3DAuthor:Denise S. > Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE > > IEEE Aerospace 2019: > **************** > " Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, > Navigation and Surveillance" > To be presented 3/3/2019 > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --0000000000004b1cad057f3f6f80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

UAS application is = not included in ITS, it is different system or different with=C2=A0purposes= , please note that the ITS is not a general purpose system, it is better th= at it is a special purpose that can be extended in future as the internet s= ystem done. We need to focus on the Car Land communication system only whil= e integrated with internet systems.

UAS is mostly= ad hoc systems, that is done in IETF MANET WG,

AB=

On Wed, Jan= 9, 2019 at 5:29 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
Hello,

Under FAA program DTFAWA-15-D-00030 and NASA program NNA16BD84C, we
have developed communications architectures for both manned and unmanned aviation. Unmanned Air Systems (UAS) in particular present an interesting c= hallenge,
as there will be vast numbers operating in worldwide controlled and uncontr= olled
air spaces in the coming years. With the advent of applications such as air= taxis and
personal air vehicles, UAS will soon =E2=80=9Cshare the road=E2=80=9D with = the legacy terrestrial
vehicle deployment. As such, technologies such as 4G/5G, C-V2X and DSRC wil= l
be used by these systems in the same fashion as has been discussed in ipwav= e.

Under the FAA and NASA programs, two IETF works have been developed and
tailored to the mobile networking use case. =E2=80=98draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-b= gp=E2=80=99 provides
a scalable routing system based on BGP for tracking IPv6 prefixes associate= d with
mobile nodes such as terrestrial and air vehicles. =E2=80=98draft-templin-i= ntarea-6706bis=E2=80=99
presents the AERO mobile routing service for localized mobility and route optimization at the vehicular level. Together, these technologies provide a=
comprehensive solution for both aeronautical and terrestrial mobile network= ing.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet= f-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-templin-intarea-6706bis/

We would like to explore synergies with the work in progress in ipwave. We<= br> believe the coming UAS applications will need to function in harmony with terrestrial vehicles, so we perceive a fit with this working group=E2=80=99= s activities.
In addition to the two IETF drafts, see below for a list of papers which ha= ve
been published in various IEEE forums. Please post comments to the list.
Thanks =E2=80=93 Fred

Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2017:
*****************************************************
=E2=80=9CConsiderations for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=9CRequirements for an integrated UAS CNS architecture=E2=80=9D
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/= mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8011878"&refinem= ents=3DAuthor:Fred L. Templin&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE<= br>
IEEE Aerospace 2018:
****************
=E2=80=9CReliable and secure surveillance, communications and navigation (R= SCAN) for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)
in controlled airspace=E2=80=9D
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/= mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8396361"&refinem= ents=3DAuthor:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFIN= E

Integrated Communications, Navigation and Surveillance (ICNS) 2018:
*****************************************************
=E2=80=9CUAS CNS architectures for uncontrolled airspace=E2=80=9D
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/= mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8384823"&refinem= ents=3DAuthor:Denise Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFINE
Digital Avionics Systems Conference (DASC) 2018:
*************************************
=E2=80=9CAn Implementation Analysis of Communications, Navigation, and Surv= eillance (CNS)
Technologies for Unmanned Air Systems (UAS)=E2=80=9D
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/= mostRecentIssue.jsp?filter=3DissueId EQ "8569218"&refinem= ents=3DAuthor:Denise S. Ponchak&pageNumber=3D1&resultAction=3DREFIN= E

IEEE Aerospace 2019:
****************
" Advancing the Standards for Unmanned Air System Communications, Navi= gation and Surveillance"
To be presented 3/3/2019

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
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=
On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 8:20 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>= ; wrote:

Hi Nalini,<= /p>

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t know why we have= n=E2=80=99t seen these groups coming to the IETF yet.<= /p>

I think they are thinking 5G in = terms of their infrastructure-mode connectivity,

but I do not think they have bee= n thinking about IPv6, OCB operations or even

Internetworking in general as of= yet. That needs to change.


Yes you are right we all are thinking of the efficient 5G system wh= ich=C2=A0is the best on the table in market for wireless coverage, each gov= ernment needs to secure their city with a secure Land communication system= =C2=A0the ITS is integrated with 5G and also 5G is perfectly integrated wit= h Internet systems. The UAS is not a secure system if integrated, it is mos= tly an emergency=C2=A0or military system if 5G shutdown.

AB


--0000000000009db8ce057f3fbe83-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 02:31:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E43128CB7; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:31:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R8XHEeJjMhki; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi1-x229.google.com (mail-oi1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AFC012785F; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:31:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi1-x229.google.com with SMTP id y23so14307892oia.4; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:31:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ObLKzxdpeSrJJCOMOORjMLO+eXeDG2YpijyoNubMK6o=; b=kiZ/gvDUvQA+OkCxQIQS0sdz6mMAwZITBDjql6SoNuo80UsTSFk0LFw5Y93i1yM9nw n8wvXi8rjwzAY2cHxAfoAWsIGcrVZkMGXwN41Fn2rSY4ZX8vOc9fSGjJDEtRqG13Jzer y9R+urgX/o4JYIIddkxi1yQ9bqlA6u5bTrXuZ6Ycx4KlqQADc1DZ2SfcAe9NAKdr4BkB jfjJLbjyhXeA2Cx76Yfv2Pbv9sSKyYw2UFqX1pb7JR8+RC+r9zRCCITbuc377XqhtpPM IRospxvUfut49zkpCTkDFGAaPUov6g89rmU6S6r4XpwyvotWXH9I7astSLSQ/8y7cwJq YNTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ObLKzxdpeSrJJCOMOORjMLO+eXeDG2YpijyoNubMK6o=; b=so9A5h22fCiKW5KH6+5jrKAKOWkAOL+BN0C7LFHaX7bp2r1HtzBqeYmhrvclJK7yZj jbreh6vDYNLgoWRf/5AftQZa0j1qsy+RGhyC+3M9OqQObGuAhEi8kOi2APTxpdwYV+sH moJ9AzCye0FRDWZaO4QhRSFeLsqEHSRzomZeSc709oLXiFk8r669MjlBatbOebGuCKPr F56E05S+V0e493FBKQaC1SS57h1JTIVRZBLX9nMo48c30a59kG11qUi4KI3x3iNP0WG4 mZj8OvsJ63LC2f/31woVM81ngeqqNSP3BcEi7kb9u8Y794wiRcUUcchwvN3HPM0nby1/ +Egw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukc9xAfR5Tp6l5Puce8e26Z06Q9Twv2MUIcU3dcbRa9VvaZ4aNH/ dXAKnPaozJ1SCNISZR4sJFwdjeuy5MdtLTNSXQo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5CvzQHh0E/wIlWFjXbSrtHcC1YqGlJGBwzmTHoI897tLH+Pni2V+t54D2BH4oXsoR6oUnggM/axDQrjp+U8RY= X-Received: by 2002:aca:cc:: with SMTP id 195mr11422163oia.297.1547289078963; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 02:31:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:31:05 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Templin (US), Fred L" Cc: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" , "its@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eaa29d057f404f55" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:31:22 -0000 --000000000000eaa29d057f404f55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Fred, Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should consider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for IPv6, as RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. If not considering then I think it should mention why. Best regards AB On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. > Mostly > points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on > "Stub AS Mobile > Routing Services". > > Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also > cross-posting to > ipwave and dmm due to interest there. > > Thanks - Fred > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org > > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the > IETF. > > > > Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for > the Aeronautical Telecommunications Network > > Authors : Fred L. Templin > > Greg Saccone > > Gaurav Dawra > > Acee Lindem > > Victor Moreno > > Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt > > Pages : 18 > > Date : 2019-01-11 > > > > Abstract: > > The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigating > > mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical > > Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS). > > The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services > > with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic > > Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline > > Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide. > > This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobile > > routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/IPS > > requirements. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > rtgwg mailing list > > rtgwg@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > --000000000000eaa29d057f404f55 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IM= HO, the draft should consider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology= =C2=A0protocols for IPv6, as=C2=A0RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-= manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. If not considering then I think it should men= tion why.

Best regards
AB=C2= =A0

On= Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comm= ents received. Mostly
points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on &qu= ot;Stub AS Mobile
Routing Services".

Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-posting to
ipwave and dmm due to interest there.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM
> To: i-d-ann= ounce@ietf.org
> Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org=
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the = IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical T= elecommunications Network
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Fred L. Templin
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Saccone
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gaurav Dawra
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Acee Lindem
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Victor Moreno
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-= ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0: 18
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 : 2019-01-11
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is i= nvestigating
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Service= s (ATN/IPS).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communicatio= n services
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traff= ic
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airli= ne
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft= worldwide.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This informational document describes a simple and extens= ible mobile
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address= the ATN/IPS
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 requirements.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-r= tgwg-atn-bgp-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url= 2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
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([2600:8801:d000:14a4:1566:a70e:c5f1:f230]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j197sm123681116pgc.76.2019.01.12.09.31.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:31:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-25E0D7AB-9709-4898-9687-D2FD9E86F970 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Fred Baker X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16D5039a) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 09:31:33 -0800 Cc: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "its@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Abdussalam Baryun Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 17:31:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail-25E0D7AB-9709-4898-9687-D2FD9E86F970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dumb question: AODVv2 has been in the IESG state =E2=80=9Crevised ID needed=E2= =80=9D for 15 months. Has it been abandoned? Should it be in this list? Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways... > On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >=20 > Hi Fred, >=20 >=20 > Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should con= sider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for IPv6, as R= FC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. If not= considering then I think it should mention why. >=20 > Best regards > AB=20 >=20 >> On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L wrote: >> Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. M= ostly >> points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "= Stub AS Mobile >> Routing Services". >>=20 >> Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-po= sting to >> ipwave and dmm due to interest there. >>=20 >> Thanks - Fred >>=20 >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-draft= s@ietf.org >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM >> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the I= ETF. >> >=20 >> > Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for t= he Aeronautical Telecommunications Network >> > Authors : Fred L. Templin >> > Greg Saccone >> > Gaurav Dawra >> > Acee Lindem >> > Victor Moreno >> > Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> > Pages : 18 >> > Date : 2019-01-11 >> >=20 >> > Abstract: >> > The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigatin= g >> > mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical >> > Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS)= . >> > The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services >> > with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic >> > Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline >> > Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide.= >> > This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobile= >> > routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/IP= S >> > requirements. >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ >> >=20 >> > There are also htmlized versions available at: >> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >=20 >> > A diff from the previous version is available at: >> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion >> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >=20 >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >=20 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > rtgwg mailing list >> > rtgwg@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg --Apple-Mail-25E0D7AB-9709-4898-9687-D2FD9E86F970 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dumb question: AODVv2 has been in the IESG s= tate =E2=80=9Crevised ID needed=E2=80=9D for 15 months. Has it been abandone= d? Should it be in this list?

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...

On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote= :

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Hi Fred,


Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should= consider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for I= Pv6, as RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and R= FC7722. If not considering then I think it should mention why.

Best regards
AB 

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:= 10 AM Templin (US), Fred L <= Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
Hi, we have= updated the draft based on questions and comments received. Mostly
points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "Stu= b AS Mobile
Routing Services".

Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-posting to
ipwave and dmm due to interest there.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM
> To: i-d-anno= unce@ietf.org
> Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org<= /a>
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories.
> This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the I= ETF.
>
>         Title         = ;  : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical Tele= communications Network
>         Authors        &nb= sp;: Fred L. Templin
>                    &n= bsp;      Greg Saccone
>                    &n= bsp;      Gaurav Dawra
>                    &n= bsp;      Acee Lindem
>                    &n= bsp;      Victor Moreno
>       Filename        : draft-i= etf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>       Pages           = ;: 18
>       Date           = : 2019-01-11
>
> Abstract:
>    The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is in= vestigating
>    mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical
>    Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services= (ATN/IPS).
>    The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication= services
>    with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffi= c
>    Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airlin= e
>    Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft w= orldwide.
>    This informational document describes a simple and extensi= ble mobile
>    routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address t= he ATN/IPS
>    requirements.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtg= wg-atn-bgp-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D= draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
= >
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org<= br> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
________= _______________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.orghttps://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
= --Apple-Mail-25E0D7AB-9709-4898-9687-D2FD9E86F970-- From nobody Sat Jan 12 12:01:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E63131059; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kXpx8KkisxoO; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x636.google.com (mail-pl1-x636.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::636]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91384131022; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x636.google.com with SMTP id gn14so8296856plb.10; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=WvZGqmGrVHfKLXiF9mobPqQobUQRWJgTeHl5I9byy2I=; b=WwN3qQsDPi0BT3zvA4R5jvbCaCnegwDMgGbC3h/1Pf6tGCT6nLIsTqQ1dM82QAdx2n BRUiBmGp2SGxCmtc1EJNofKbeWWZgzBx90kgRvzMHh1EHLAGgXXryoXRObZoYQxd7yMB tItYTGv7rSdBlNRBZNrrsUEpEVN7/niClftik9/nVUNkGSVui6E0j2CH8CjPT0k0OTzz kU5EzstKp7Rv6KK/+9qcx5YN9iLV77szlnURhSk8IKwxMfaVSFtJqbGT3WdoeBRNRhTr 9YEHQGMKcX6LXfENn0AdsDbfiyQAr0t/Orl7zQ/cN/ymanpJVOwo0kRADuEDE6xZZoem yLBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=WvZGqmGrVHfKLXiF9mobPqQobUQRWJgTeHl5I9byy2I=; b=H8/IKfxF+zjfy/1mvwYGRXSi2m7EQe+Jxj+J8nEbXS4QS+GUw/CXOwFirlXziFJ+Xs lzFDJ3BX8QedyJ7UItYy+06FB+7BayhjvFYO5Y/XyNnmVeEs1JTEf6BtFbFScdt5g+fl 3sTDKpL5lEPzyOtMTCg9WnAllklXqog1wMep3SWXXgDkSqOnnEp3xGWzKMl3+pelGDno MtUk+lxnP6UC9MtMQIXnp9uhE/IjQVUUgInPeyG3ffdobYyJzrDaKqyVaVXYDWscJEQ0 u8sXBIY53Y79sXrctFQ2ObWDEP/N55KGPTRKoAS6TNjSV+lvbQFtM3I77zibOlcyG5OI OfUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukeLbDgz5jt7q2+rYsFcX7z/KxIKDYY2BwM9Sbc54I52Cr4pH/D2 mzXtYzUiad4qeRuU/+a7pro= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7Isvhf3kNRWBM9sT1UqQ2ldAADE0oUQdw/LynzYOfMD2tBX9tMSMOExNmcENwYDpVCd8s60w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:bb86:: with SMTP id m6mr19938498pls.315.1547323255011; Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2607:fb90:66a1:5aab:ccc0:cbe5:1357:787? ([2607:fb90:66a1:5aab:ccc0:cbe5:1357:787]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g11sm114130587pfo.139.2019.01.12.12.00.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Jan 2019 12:00:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8853E303-F183-449A-97F6-7C016A6F9524 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Fred Baker In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:46:14 -0800 Cc: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "its@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Abdussalam Baryun X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16D5039a) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 20:01:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail-8853E303-F183-449A-97F6-7C016A6F9524 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having now is read the draft, which doesn=E2=80=99t mention common Enterpris= e Routing protons such as IS-IS (which might be expected from history) or OS= PF but is instead all about a very specific scope regarding IPv6 and BGP, I w= ouldn=E2=80=99t expect Fred to update the draft per your suggestion without a= very strong operational argument. Can you point to deployments in which mob= ile ad-hoc Routing protocols are envisaged or in use in aeronautics? Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways... > On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >=20 > Hi Fred, >=20 >=20 > Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should con= sider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for IPv6, as R= FC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. If not= considering then I think it should mention why. >=20 > Best regards > AB=20 >=20 >> On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L wrote: >> Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. M= ostly >> points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "= Stub AS Mobile >> Routing Services". >>=20 >> Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-po= sting to >> ipwave and dmm due to interest there. >>=20 >> Thanks - Fred >>=20 >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-draft= s@ietf.org >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM >> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the I= ETF. >> >=20 >> > Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for t= he Aeronautical Telecommunications Network >> > Authors : Fred L. Templin >> > Greg Saccone >> > Gaurav Dawra >> > Acee Lindem >> > Victor Moreno >> > Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> > Pages : 18 >> > Date : 2019-01-11 >> >=20 >> > Abstract: >> > The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigatin= g >> > mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical >> > Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS)= . >> > The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services >> > with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic >> > Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline >> > Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide.= >> > This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobile= >> > routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/IP= S >> > requirements. >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ >> >=20 >> > There are also htmlized versions available at: >> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >=20 >> > A diff from the previous version is available at: >> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion >> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >=20 >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >=20 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > rtgwg mailing list >> > rtgwg@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg --Apple-Mail-8853E303-F183-449A-97F6-7C016A6F9524 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having now is read the draft, which doesn=E2= =80=99t mention common Enterprise Routing protons such as IS-IS (which might= be expected from history) or OSPF but is instead all about a very specific s= cope regarding IPv6 and BGP, I wouldn=E2=80=99t expect Fred to update the dr= aft per your suggestion without a very strong operational argument. Can you p= oint to deployments in which mobile ad-hoc Routing protocols are envisaged o= r in use in aeronautics?

S= ent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...

On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Hi Fred,


Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should cons= ider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for IPv6, a= s RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722= . If not considering then I think it should mention why.

Best regards
AB 

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM T= emplin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.= Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
Hi, we have update= d the draft based on questions and comments received. Mostly
points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on "Stu= b AS Mobile
Routing Services".

Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-posting to
ipwave and dmm due to interest there.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM
> To: i-d-anno= unce@ietf.org
> Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org<= /a>
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dire= ctories.
> This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the I= ETF.
>
>         Title         = ;  : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical Tele= communications Network
>         Authors        &nb= sp;: Fred L. Templin
>                    &n= bsp;      Greg Saccone
>                    &n= bsp;      Gaurav Dawra
>                    &n= bsp;      Acee Lindem
>                    &n= bsp;      Victor Moreno
>       Filename        : draft-i= etf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>       Pages           = ;: 18
>       Date           = : 2019-01-11
>
> Abstract:
>    The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is in= vestigating
>    mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical
>    Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services= (ATN/IPS).
>    The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication= services
>    with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffi= c
>    Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airlin= e
>    Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft w= orldwide.
>    This informational document describes a simple and extensi= ble mobile
>    routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address t= he ATN/IPS
>    requirements.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtg= wg-atn-bgp-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D= draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
= >
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org<= br> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
________= _______________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.orghttps://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
= --Apple-Mail-8853E303-F183-449A-97F6-7C016A6F9524-- From nobody Sun Jan 13 23:57:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604A6130F9A; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:57:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F2Z_Uc0u1sXX; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com (mail-ot1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5C3D130F9C; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:57:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id e12so18544777otl.5; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:57:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GxKWkZlPQyil1HLdoMYTdaqp+y3uBQqT+2CfXATXzVY=; b=UvIehnerlru28woEJrYmgmnUdqXlfj5rLOgojU00NNlINFT6+pZvn/Q0IRf3Esg7J9 GRSsTQc31rRXcXHtYIFxHc/5HNybM7jqKgS92LvxZ6cJH7nBwL0rU+fFSKgzpTFE8gkt ODJ45JbTfKigc0fXspMAJmwyU0qQYNp5nxNxIeOnlhDyH+JHkIZ+RmlP/XcH7/T003h+ ZmMSPYvAAoDHp50YzPWhYcdsfMtBG/BglhRDhjS0V1vKzjCHQ1FZCttVfpau7D94lzOz ScapEgv2MZzE07FeWWv4nsptM18+aG8171zpSlllSCK0aZUL+DgnqKoFu4ljH7tGnTRi 0/+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GxKWkZlPQyil1HLdoMYTdaqp+y3uBQqT+2CfXATXzVY=; b=bpR4PBp5aPSn+MnJ+lyQexv6IDeogD2BdW2N9f99wGvmd5KWwNTkfizgui0pq8kYXr DVIIgR5Yhc875aDQClkruJiVTo9EWITNc+m4NkAuoGsp+T4ydXXEPt3lCKYxtMpDDRqR Pc9CdgrH081q+X8V150DJXzj0xn7IzQbfsRtS5IMvsxNoB/iMCz6sBiR7hn7dwvjVoQ0 1cs5tlLtLUsvzWz7M8uiFtpM8VW7+Fc1yi/nk9BDwo5JTbMGzUXJOQTJmO9mjmpbGHPh c9MzJHZ+JYpZS8zF27GNl3dgzgmp9q5V0QZOZ5Wl0JXs6gJ3d4U3BOS88HP7TmTNR76c I0iw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfwmifX2aeGK6Qv4kGcW3kSsHtgOW2CvE5K2tHfYlmeDD1TJbyu AVlkieb5mNKxw+CN8y7w6c4t/TvMzjnSByAisc8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7+DKrNF+tZ2Ux0QRpdTYzCVcci71LRK2fyxnoujQl7o4dHWvlo41xxP2tiJqhv/xrDFpgbMOzTA3+oXYDcJYA= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1b67:: with SMTP id l94mr15113072otl.147.1547452642248; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 23:57:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <154724345011.21894.14341873011380010523@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Abdussalam Baryun Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 09:57:06 +0200 Message-ID: To: Fred Baker Cc: "Templin (US), Fred L" , "its@ietf.org" , "dmm@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000c4d88057f6665f7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:57:27 -0000 --0000000000000c4d88057f6665f7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred Baker, I usually discuss deployment when the ietf-draft or ietf-RFC is a standard, but this draft is informational and it's including the planning for future technologies of Aeronautical Mobile Routing. More reply below, On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 10:00 PM Fred Baker wrote: > Having now is read the draft, which doesn=E2=80=99t mention common Enterp= rise > Routing protons such as IS-IS (which might be expected from history) or > OSPF but is instead all about a very specific scope regarding IPv6 and BG= P, > I wouldn=E2=80=99t expect Fred to update the draft per your suggestion wi= thout a > very strong operational argument. > I think that new draft authors are expected to inform community about mobile routing protocols standard by IETF as working with the author's suggested mobile routing. I included standards like DLEP and OLSRv2, the draft does not mention at all, why? So I expect that Fred (the author) can discuss on the list the mobile routing options/not-options when the draft's title is about simple mobile routing (usually I expect updates can happen while WG discuss). Can you point to deployments in which mobile ad-hoc Routing protocols are > envisaged or in use in aeronautics? > We don't forget that the draft is suggested as informational not standard, so deployment is not the issue, IETF do publish things that will be in future implemented. Furthermore, IETF has standardised mobile routings so we cannot ignore them when we write a new draft specially when it is informational. Best Regards, AB > > Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways... > > On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun > wrote: > > Hi Fred, > > > Thanks for this work which is very interesting. IMHO, the draft should > consider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODVv2, multitopology protocols for IPv6= , > as RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC7181, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. > If not considering then I think it should mention why. > > Best regards > AB > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > >> Hi, we have updated the draft based on questions and comments received. >> Mostly >> points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on >> "Stub AS Mobile >> Routing Services". >> >> Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also >> cross-posting to >> ipwave and dmm due to interest there. >> >> Thanks - Fred >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> internet-drafts@ietf.org >> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM >> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> > Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org >> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> > >> > >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the >> IETF. >> > >> > Title : A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for >> the Aeronautical Telecommunications Network >> > Authors : Fred L. Templin >> > Greg Saccone >> > Gaurav Dawra >> > Acee Lindem >> > Victor Moreno >> > Filename : draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt >> > Pages : 18 >> > Date : 2019-01-11 >> > >> > Abstract: >> > The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is investigati= ng >> > mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical >> > Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Services (ATN/IPS= ). >> > The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communication services >> > with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traffic >> > Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airline >> > Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft worldwide= . >> > This informational document describes a simple and extensible mobil= e >> > routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address the ATN/I= PS >> > requirements. >> > >> > >> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/ >> > >> > There are also htmlized versions available at: >> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> > >> > A diff from the previous version is available at: >> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01 >> > >> > >> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> > >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > rtgwg mailing list >> > rtgwg@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg >> >> _______________________________________________ >> its mailing list >> its@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its >> > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > rtgwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg > > --0000000000000c4d88057f6665f7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred Baker,

I usually discuss deployment when the ietf-draft or ie= tf-RFC is a standard, but this draft is informational and it's includin= g the planning for future technologies of Aeronautical Mobile Routing. More= reply below,

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 10:00 PM Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Having now is read the draft, which doesn=E2=80= =99t mention common Enterprise Routing protons such as IS-IS (which might b= e expected from history) or OSPF but is instead all about a very specific s= cope regarding IPv6 and BGP, I wouldn=E2=80=99t expect Fred to update the d= raft per your suggestion without a very strong operational argument.
=

I think that new draft authors=C2=A0are ex= pected to inform community=C2=A0about mobile routing protocols=C2=A0standar= d by IETF as working with the author's suggested mobile routing. I incl= uded standards like DLEP and OLSRv2, the draft does not mention at all, why= ? So I expect that Fred (the author) can discuss on the list the mobile rou= ting options/not-options when the draft's title is about simple mobile = routing (usually I expect updates can happen while=C2=A0WG discuss).
<= div>
Can you point to deploymen= ts in which mobile ad-hoc Routing protocols are envisaged or in use in aero= nautics?

We don't forget that= the draft is suggested as informational not standard, so deployment is not= the issue, IETF do publish things that will be in future implemented. Furt= hermore, IETF has standardised mobile routings so we cannot ignore them whe= n we write a new draft specially when it is informational.

Best Regards,

AB
=

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways.= ..

On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun= <abduss= alambaryun@gmail.com> wrote:

=
Hi Fred,
=

Thanks for this work which is ver= y interesting. IMHO, the draft should consider using the DLEP, OLSRv2, AODV= v2, multitopology=C2=A0protocols for IPv6, as=C2=A0RFC8175, RFC6130, RFC718= 1, draft-perkins-manet-aodvv2-02, and RFC7722. If not considering then I th= ink it should mention why.

Best regard= s
AB=C2=A0

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 12:10 AM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin= @boeing.com> wrote:
Hi, we have updated th= e draft based on questions and comments received. Mostly
points for clarification, but there is also an important new Section on &qu= ot;Stub AS Mobile
Routing Services".

Please check the diffs and post comments to rtgwg@ietf.org. Also cross-posting to
ipwave and dmm due to interest there.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:51 PM
> To: i-d-ann= ounce@ietf.org
> Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org=
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts dir= ectories.
> This draft is a work item of the Routing Area Working Group WG of the = IETF.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: A Simple BGP-based Mobile Routing System for the Aeronautical T= elecommunications Network
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0: Fred L. Templin
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Saccone
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gaurav Dawra
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Acee Lindem
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Victor Moreno
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-= ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01.txt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0: 18
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 : 2019-01-11
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is i= nvestigating
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mobile routing solutions for a worldwide Aeronautical
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Telecommunications Network with Internet Protocol Service= s (ATN/IPS).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The ATN/IPS will eventually replace existing communicatio= n services
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with an IPv6-based service supporting pervasive Air Traff= ic
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Management (ATM) for Air Traffic Controllers (ATC), Airli= ne
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Operations Controllers (AOC), and all commercial aircraft= worldwide.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This informational document describes a simple and extens= ible mobile
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 routing service based on industry-standard BGP to address= the ATN/IPS
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 requirements.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-r= tgwg-atn-bgp-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url= 2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-atn-bgp-01
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> rtgwg mailing list
> rtgwg@ietf.org=
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its
_______= ________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list=
rtgwg@= ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg=
--0000000000000c4d88057f6665f7-- From nobody Mon Jan 14 07:43:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FD21310DB for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:43:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rnxMtctqvLuM for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36C9A1310D9 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x0EFhD05024330; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:43:13 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-12.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.114]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x0EFh9kS023270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:43:09 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) by XCH16-07-12.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.114) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:43:08 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f]) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f%6]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:43:08 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUp2tJG1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jn6WpHBHAgAGaAIeABDmCAA== Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:43:08 +0000 Message-ID: <5abe9742f21a453eb29f7370f6736935@boeing.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 5CD63C922D7BF561944F6CE47FB3023932A9DD91370556D4AA396969978911722000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:43:18 -0000 Alex, The high level point you seem to be making is known as Size, Weight And Power (SWAP) plus cost. But, not all UAs will be the micro-sized ones that are small enough to be easily carried by a person. Some will be quite a bit larger (flying cars and taxis) where SWAP+C considerations are on the same plane as ground-based vehicles. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 3:07 PM > To: its@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review >=20 > I did see a couple of demos of self-driving connected cars involving > drones. In the most recent the car is talking to a drone that is > looking for a parking slot. The drone has better view from above > ground, than the car. >=20 > The drone talks to Internet on 4G; the drone talks to human operator on > WiFi 5GHz; the drone also has some IP/WiFi 2.4GHz stack. The car sends > CAM messages at 5.9GHz. >=20 > Obviously I asked the programmers whether their done talks 802.11 OCB, > or CAMs, but they said that is not allowed on the drone. The technical > aspect that would prevent drones to talk 802.11-OCB is probably the size > and price of 802.11-OCB. For example, the small raspberry pis carried > by these drones are not known to support 802.11-OCB (just like mobile > smartphones are not known to do 802.11 OCB) even though they do support > easily 4G and WiFi. >=20 > Putting IP/802.11-OCB on drone would be of some help, provided it does > not bring additional weight, consumption, cost. >=20 > Alex >=20 > Le 11/01/2019 =E0 17:57, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) a =E9crit=A0: > > Including Air safety (and even Rail) use-cases in IPWAVE PS document in > > an interesting point. I don't have an opinion on that, but I am curious > > if SAE safety messages covers all those use-cases? Are these SDO's like > > SAE looking at these problems? > > > > Sri > > > > > > > > > > From: "Templin (US), Fred L" > > > > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 2:43 PM > > To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" > >, Charlie Perkins > > >, Sri > > Gundavelli >, Jung-Soo > > Park > > > Cc: "its@ietf.org " > > > > Subject: RE: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > > consider > > > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:*its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Pau= l > > Jeong > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > > *To:* Charlie Perkins > >; Sri Gundavelli > >; Jung-Soo Park > > > > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong > >; its@ietf.org > > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Paul > > -- > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor > > Department of Software > > Sungkyunkwan University > > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com , > > pauljeong@skku.edu > > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > its mailing list > > its@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its From nobody Mon Jan 14 07:45:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2E01310DD for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:45:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YJQourrshPei for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D8A81310D9 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id x0EFjFsd008027; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:45:15 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-11.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.113]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id x0EFj9RZ006832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:45:09 -0500 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.109) by XCH16-07-11.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.113) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:45:08 -0800 Received: from XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f]) by XCH16-07-07.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::191d:98d0:d976:ef9f%6]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.012; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:45:08 -0800 From: "Templin (US), Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "its@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave Thread-Index: AdSoLwZbTYC6PMJmRG6A+/2xAQ+8cACGD/4AAHYmUfA= Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:45:08 +0000 Message-ID: <57208fbd1fe3483392c297a5391139df@boeing.com> References: <4c4f802d21af4611b199879fd05c6a93@boeing.com> <5315305d-db54-d859-a760-39836e895a00@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5315305d-db54-d859-a760-39836e895a00@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: 933EE17054F6193391089850B79F8B25DD9583F9198466CB3437C67F3DC933A82000:8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Unmanned Air System (UAS) applications in ipwave X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 15:45:20 -0000 VGhlIGNvbmNlcHQgb2YgZmx5aW5nIGNhcnMgcGxhdG9vbmluZyBoYXMgYmVlbiBhcm91bmQgZm9y IG1hbnkgZGVjYWRlcw0KcmVhbGx5LiBXYXRjaCBhbiBlcGlzb2RlIG9mIFRoZSBKZXRzb25zLg0K DQpGcmVkDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogaXRzIFttYWls dG86aXRzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBBbGV4YW5kcmUgUGV0cmVzY3UN Cj4gU2VudDogRnJpZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDExLCAyMDE5IDM6MjAgUE0NCj4gVG86IGl0c0BpZXRm 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Lm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQo+ID4N Cj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ IGl0cyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gaXRzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXRzDQo= From nobody Mon Jan 14 07:52:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88128131122 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:52:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bHYu711U45TR for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:52:47 -0800 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id f18so398589otl.11 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:55:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nPh/IdqgOxvx6CqVmVZBIginzSgLNZWmRgAk9zVWNCE=; b=IhOH1jxY/Ewhx+2cjhIFfA2DjmFMVcrBxgejmlMezKmtRXVEHW5bbJB/zyzSkQerRW xBEPziAUVMvo8PuFZSjttoOoppzlW0TnMcnLrC875OYTcOE8pRYlO0KMsK0NVvUMsk5b f/Rt9Enbvn1S2m+9+s5TxHAOpVlfTiyp0Lu4sZHvOt3x/qGXBGeHrBX3GRUd5dykxO/L ar9xbkeEyARXjz/l7q9FXLMfA+zUqVxUoRtIgiNhlGX9vwnGx9ZoIaRsmz7a9hmqcmxW b/3UBpk2MT6uY0xc5Q4ha6lLD6FwKioREs+UTAIZt0aIhpHysxe3N//7maR1qJfWs2cV 7dcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nPh/IdqgOxvx6CqVmVZBIginzSgLNZWmRgAk9zVWNCE=; b=NOZKuCd7PSuoo0p8u4WmNcxmWgh9klcLd0TQxA1AShAw7Mh15wdcL8WwTRRE/9hS/7 vlwv11MCcsPPFi+OhWCiTeX36jcIg6nlSh+rDOyrJPFfT7R7s+qBdc9MHrserITsz9yG 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multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e36965057f71434f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 20:55:35 -0000 --000000000000e36965057f71434f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:52 PM Templin (US), Fred L < Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > Air systems are coming into the urban mobility landscape whether we like > it or not. > I do like Air systems, but the issue is its performance is different than Land systems, we need to agree that we don't want lower performance so we design for high and then integrate the lower but not together. Maybe this WG can do draft for such interface for air communication. > And, > > since they will take off and land (and sometimes fly low) it is important > that their actions > > be coordinated with land-based vehicles. > Aircrafts can carry two systems/devices simply one for air and one for land. However, I don't think their protocols need coordination, but I agree that air systems always need a service from land systems, but not much the other way. > > Another big consideration is frequency spectrum. It is very difficult to > procure new > > spectrum space for a massive new service such as urban air mobility. It > would be much > > better to use the same frequency space as the ground vehicles so that the > combined > > air/ground urban mobility landscape can be coordinated. > I disagree on same frequency band for both communication systems, but agree that each network-system has two different interface devices with different frequency bands for each communication environment. The reason is performance, the two communication systems are different, or with different issues. AB > > > Fred > > > > *From:* Abdussalam Baryun [mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 1:13 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Jung-Soo Park ; Mr. Jaehoon > Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com> > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > I am not interested in air system to be included (or I am against the ide= a > because makes more complications) because it has different physical > communication problems, IMHO we cannot mix land communication with air > communication they are with different environments and different systems. > > > > AB > > > > On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Hi Carlos, > > > > There have already been a number of messages to the list giving > substantiation > > of the UAS use case so I won=E2=80=99t repeat those here. But, the work i= n ipwave > has > > been focused only on two dimensions (all vehicles at ground level) wherea= s > the > > near future urban mobility landscape will be in three dimensions, > including UAS=E2=80=99 > > in low altitude above ground level. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailto:cjbc@it.uc3m.es] > *Sent:* Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM > *To:* Templin (US), Fred L > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; Charlie Perkins < > Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli ; > Jung-Soo Park ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Fred, > > > > Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why you think Air system > related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG document? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carlos > > > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred L < > Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > At first glance, this document appears to be incomplete as it does not > consider > > the advent of Unmanned Air Systems in harmonized operation with legacy > > ground systems. It also does not consider the AERO mobile networking > > solution, nor the scalable BGP-based DMM solution. > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > *From:* its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Mr. Jaehoon Paul > Jeong > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM > *To:* Charlie Perkins ; Sri Gundavelli < > sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park > *Cc:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong ; its@ietf.org > *Subject:* [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review > > > > Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo, > > As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give me your review on > > the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST? > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-07 > > > > We need to move forward with this document and the IPWAVE rechartering. > > > > Thanks for your volunteer help. > > > > Best Regards, > > Paul > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Software > Sungkyunkwan University > Office: +82-31-299-4957 > Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu > Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php > > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > > --000000000000e36965057f71434f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:52 PM Templin (= US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin= @boeing.com> wrote:

Air systems are coming into the = urban mobility landscape whether we like it or not.

=

I do like Air systems, but the issue is it= s performance is different than Land systems, we need to agree that we don&= #39;t=C2=A0want lower performance so we design for high and then integrate = the lower but not together. Maybe this WG can do draft for such interface f= or air communication.
=C2=A0

And,

since they will take off and lan= d (and sometimes fly low) it is important that their actions<= /span>

be coordinated with land-based v= ehicles.


Aircrafts c= an carry two systems/devices simply one for air and one for land. However, = I don't think their protocols need coordination, but =C2=A0I agree that= air systems always need a service from land systems,=C2=A0but not much the= other way.

<= div class=3D"gmail-m_-83945594382930202WordSection1">

=C2=A0

Another big consideration is fre= quency spectrum. It is very difficult to procure new

spectrum space for a massive new= service such as urban air mobility. It would be much<= /p>

better to use the same frequency= space as the ground vehicles so that the combined

air/ground urban mobility landsc= ape can be coordinated.


<= div>I disagree on same frequency band for both communication systems, but a= gree that each network-system has two different interface devices with diff= erent frequency bands for each communication environment. The reason is per= formance, the two communication systems are different, or with different is= sues.

AB

=C2=A0

Fred

=C2=A0

From: Abdussalam Baryun [mailto:abdussalambaryun@g= mail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 1:13 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>; Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@hu= awei.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com= >; its@ietf.org; S= ri Gundavelli <s= gundave@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

I am not interested in air system to be included (or= I am against the idea because makes more complications)=C2=A0because it ha= s different physical communication problems, IMHO we cannot mix land commun= ication with air communication they are with different environments and different systems.

=C2=A0

AB

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:14 PM Templin (US), Fred L= <Fred.L.= Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

Hi Carlos,<= /p>

=C2=A0

There have already been a number= of messages to the list giving substantiation

of the UAS use case so I won=E2= =80=99t repeat those here. But, the work in ipwave has=

been focused only on two dimensi= ons (all vehicles at ground level) whereas the

near future urban mobility lands= cape will be in three dimensions, including UAS=E2=80=99

in low altitude above ground lev= el.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO [mailt= o:cjbc@it.uc3m= .es]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:54 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <
Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <
jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr>; its@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Fred,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate why = you think Air system related technologies should be covered by an IPWAVE WG= document?

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Carlos

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:43 PM Templin (US), Fred = L <Fred.L= .Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

At first glance, this document a= ppears to be incomplete as it does not consider

the advent of Unmanned Air Syste= ms in harmonized operation with legacy

ground systems. It also does not= consider the AERO mobile networking

solution, nor the scalable BGP-b= ased DMM solution.

=C2=A0

Thanks - Fred

=C2=A0

From: its [mailto:its-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:00 AM
To: Charlie Perkins <Charlie.Perkins@huawei.com>; Sri Gundavelli <sgundave@cisco.com>; Jung-Soo Park <pjs@etri.re.kr> Cc: Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; its@ietf.org=
Subject: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review

=C2=A0

Hi Charlie, Sri, and Jung-Soo,

As you agreed last IETF-103 meeting, could you give = me your review on=C2=A0

the IPWAVE PS Document by January 15, 2019 in EST?

=C2=A0

We need to move forward with this document and the I= PWAVE rechartering.

=C2=A0

Thanks for your volunteer help.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

Paul
--

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.= paul@gmail.com,=C2=A0pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org
htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

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To: Abdussalam Baryun CC: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO , Charlie Perkins , Jung-Soo Park , "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" , "its@ietf.org" , "Sri Gundavelli" Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review Thread-Index: AQHUp2tJG1a7t30U7EWcGuBXiu+Jn6WpHBHAgAFTIID//9DlwIABpSmAgAMMUrCAANyZAP//jRpw Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 22:12:56 +0000 Message-ID: <04e66849e7d84f0cad5c853f23c91519@boeing.com> References: <7b3056e974eb469fb42f039e87debd88@boeing.com> <65e7b7671cb34093b2bcee7219bb4562@boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] x-tm-snts-smtp: A02EC0A476A08A33229E377541B01B94146F10F8A2C4660988E77B8D4C6B9BFA2000:8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_04e66849e7d84f0cad5c853f23c91519boeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ipwave] Request for IPWAVE PS Document Review X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list 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ESMTP id E403213118E for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 03:15:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.085 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.085 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_08=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dc7E_g8v260j for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 03:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C117131191 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 03:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0IBFihc014450 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:15:44 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BBC0203037 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:15:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3796200733 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:15:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id x0IBFhwT009651 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:15:43 +0100 To: "its@ietf.org" From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:15:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B13632D5871CF8894871E8B6" Content-Language: fr Archived-At: Subject: [ipwave] Trial involving RIO on OCB for V2V platooning X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 11:15:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B13632D5871CF8894871E8B6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Trial of a platooning (convoy) use-case for automobiles. The driver in Lead vehicle follows an arbitrary path that he decides randomly. The person in follower vehicle keeps hands off the wheel. The cars exchange RTMAPS data on TCP on IPv6 on an OCB link formed between the front bumper (of follower) and rear bumper (of lead).  The network establishment is with Routing Information Options in Router Advertisements, implemented with radvd and odhcp6c on linux. The IPv6 addressing is mostly link-locals and ULAs.  The latency on OCB is on the order of 1.5ms.  Packet dumps were performed. The cars have cameras, radars and lidars but are not used here (there is no 'tracking'). There is no string attaching the cars. Alex, echoing colleagues work with permission. https://youtu.be/bW9sEk2rQ1w --------------B13632D5871CF8894871E8B6 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------75EC7013003141F0356700A3" --------------75EC7013003141F0356700A3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Trial of a platooning (convoy) use-case for automobiles.

The driver in Lead vehicle follows an arbitrary path that he decides randomly.

The person in follower vehicle keeps hands off the wheel.

The cars exchange RTMAPS data on TCP on IPv6 on an OCB link formed between the front bumper (of follower) and rear bumper (of lead).  The network establishment is with Routing Information Options in Router Advertisements, implemented with radvd and odhcp6c on linux.  The IPv6 addressing is mostly link-locals and ULAs.  The latency on OCB is on the order of 1.5ms.  Packet dumps were performed.

The cars have cameras, radars and lidars but are not used here (there is no 'tracking').

There is no string attaching the cars.

Alex, echoing colleagues work with permission.

https://youtu.be/bW9sEk2rQ1w

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