Subject: [Ietf-krb-wg] Bringing back DES test vectors

From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:36:06 -0400

Let me start out by saying I think it's reasonable to retire DES now.
Linux NFS, AFS and the other few remaining use cases for DES have had
long enough to adjust and if they have not done so, well then their
users can get specialized implementations.

I understand there was discussion in the face to face meeting of
removing the DES test vectors from fast.  I think that's a really bad
idea.

I think that turning off or removing DES today is a reasonable choice
as an implementor.  However, I strongly believe that if you ship DES
and FAST, they should work together interoperably.

If people enable DES but cannot get FAST working with it, then it will
be a strong encouragement not to adopt FAST.  Consider what happens
with a KDC in a realm that stores keys not passwords.

A client needs to know whether it uses FAST before it knows what keys
the KDC has for a given principal.  If that client uses FAST but
doesn't support DES with FAST, then it will provide a better user
experience for DES principals with FAST disabled rather than enabled.
Providing that sort of poor user experience is not how you drive
adoption of new security technology.

If people are going to implement DES for FAST, test vectors are
definitely needed.  We saw that the implementation trail for that
feature is filled with a number of assumptions you need to make.

So, I propose to upload a version of the pre-auth framework that:

* Brings back the DES test vectors

* Says that only implicit TGS armor is permitted in this version (adding in this version is the change).

Then I'll ask Jeff to take that version to the IESG.  He'll presumably
either do so, find some problems in his chair review, or point at an
area where I missed an open issue or where changes did not reflect
consensus.
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From: Love Hörnquist Åstrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:31:05 +0200

> removing the DES test vectors from fast.  I think that's a really bad

There was no discussion, Larry just said that he had removed them.

In the open mic section is proposed deprecating DES and removing it as  
a MUST to implemenent, that was a separate discussion.

Love