From nobody Thu Jul 1 00:05:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146173A1863 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:05:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Am0TUkCyv5jl for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 705213A1860 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:05:31 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-HdrOrdr: =?us-ascii?q?A9a23=3A+Vpt7qFrzSRF9TnvpLqEnceALOsnbusQ8zAX?= =?us-ascii?q?Pi9KJSC9Hvb0qynRppomPHbP4V57ZJhKo7+90ce7K0/hyQ=3D=3D?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.83,313,1616454000"; d="scan'208,217";a="517638913" Received: from wifi-pro-83-225.paris.inria.fr (HELO [128.93.83.225]) ([128.93.83.225]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Jul 2021 09:05:28 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.11.0.180909 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:05:28 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFsacWhYQ==?= =?UTF-8?B?IFZ1xI1pbmnEhw==?= To: "lake@ietf.org" Message-ID: <450886E8-DD74-4A44-BDE8-A6FAF75924BF@inria.fr> Thread-Topic: LAKE @ IETF 111: Agenda items Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3707975128_1620390936" Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] LAKE @ IETF 111: Agenda items X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:05:37 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3707975128_1620390936 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable All, =20 According to the preliminary IETF 111 agenda, LAKE will be meeting on Thurs= day, July 29th, 2021 at 19:00 UTC. We will have a 1-hour session this time. =20 As usual, the major part of the meeting will be devoted to the status and o= pen issues of draft-ietf-lake-edhoc. If you would like to bring another topi= c up for discussion at the meeting, please let the chairs know at lake-chair= s@ietf.org by Friday, July 16th, 2021. =20 Thanks and looking forward to the meeting! =20 Mali=C5=A1a =20 --B_3707975128_1620390936 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

All= ,

 

According to the preliminary IETF 111 agenda, LAKE will= be meeting on Thursday, July 29th, 2021 at 19:00 UTC. We will ha= ve a 1-hour session this time.

 

As usual, the major part o= f the meeting will be devoted to the status and open issues of draft-ietf-la= ke-edhoc. If you would like to bring another topic up for discussion at the = meeting, please let the chairs know at lake-chairs@ietf.org by Friday, July 16th, 2021.<= /span>

=  

Thanks and looking forward to the meeting!

 

Mali=C5=A1a

&nbs= p;

--B_3707975128_1620390936-- From nobody Fri Jul 2 15:05:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietf.org Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307723A08DC; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:02:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: kaduk@mit.edu, lake@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162526337718.26814.6716575463132392214@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:02:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] lake - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 22:03:08 -0000 Dear Mališa Vučinić, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. lake Session 1 (1:00 requested) Thursday, 29 July 2021, Session I 1200-1300 Room Name: Room 7 size: 507 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/sessions/lake.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Mališa Vučinić Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: People who must be present: Benjamin Kaduk Malisa Vucinic Stephen Farrell Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jul 2 15:27:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D233A1487; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kxqb0yfpRTy5; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA9CF3A0D4A; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GGqRv3Rgbz2xGy; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 00:26:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 646957579.99489-ca5b01bfcc7e4357ceca42f504eb8108 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Message-Id: <033D0953-8D42-4751-8886-688C1BE9280F@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 00:26:20 +0200 To: suit@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF111: "FINAL" AGENDA X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 22:27:30 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the "FINAL" AGENDA for IETF111. Remember that further agenda changes can still happen. A number of changes have been made with respect to the draft agenda. Most notably, IOTOPS has moved on top of SECDISPATCH (was on top of RATS), but LAKE stays on RATS. All times *on my agenda* are in UTC (the default page is UTC-0700). Please forgive the 2430 and 2500, I'm way too lazy to write code to turn this into 0030 and 0100. (And it is advisable to ignore the fictional end time of the Wednesday plenary anyway.) https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc might be handy. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, July 19, 2021 1900-2100 Hackathon Kickoff Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon FRIDAY, July 23, 2021 1900-2100 Hackathon Closing Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon MONDAY, July 26, 2021 1900-2100 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Rm 2 IRTF anrw ACM/IRTF Applied Networking Research = Workshop - New Internet Protocols & Practical Congestion Control Rm 3 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Research Group Rm 7 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization = Protocol WG 2130-2230 Session II Rm 1 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 2 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 3 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Rm 4 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 9 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 2300-2500 Session III Rm 2 ART jsonpath JSON Path WG Rm 3 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 5 OPS *** iotops IOT Operations WG Rm 8 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Rm 9 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over = QUIC Encryption WG TUESDAY, July 27, 2021 1900-2100 Session I Rm 1 ART sedate Serialising Extended Data About Times = and Events WG Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 3 IRTF anrw ACM/IRTF Applied Networking Research = Workshop - Interconnection and Routing & Monitoring Internet Traffic Rm 5 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 6 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 7 SEC *** danish DANE AutheNtication for Iot Service = Hardening BOF Rm 8 TSV quic QUIC WG 2130-2230 Session II Rm 3 ART httpapi Building Blocks for HTTP APIs WG Rm 4 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Rm 7 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting Rm 8 TSV taps Transport Services WG 2300-2500 Session III Rm 7 SEC ohttp Oblivious HTTP BOF WEDNESDAY, July 28, 2021 1900-2100 Session I Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 3 INT madinas MAC Address Device Identification for = Network and Application Services BOF Rm 4 IRTF anrw ACM/IRTF Applied Networking Research = Workshop - Privacy & Applications Rm 7 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG 2130-2230 Session II Rm 2 ART uta Using TLS in Applications WG Rm 4 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Rm 5 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 8 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 9 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG 2300-2440 IETF Plenary - Plenary THURSDAY, July 29, 2021 1900-2000 Session I Rm 3 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Rm 4 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Rm 7 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange = WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 9 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 2030-2130 Session II Rm 5 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 6 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Rm 7 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 2200-2300 Session III Rm 5 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG 2330-2430 Session IV Rm 4 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG Rm 8 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG Rm 9 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG FRIDAY, July 30, 2021 1900-2100 Session I Rm 1 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 2 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 5 RTG apn Application-aware Networking BOF Rm 6 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 2130-2230 Session II Rm 1 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Rm 2 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Rm 5 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 6 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG Rm 7 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG 2300-2500 Session III Rm 1 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 2 IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Rm 3 IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Rm 7 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG Rm 8 TSV (!) tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting From nobody Mon Jul 12 12:45:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietf.org Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C5A3A13D6; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:45:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: lake@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lake@ietf.org Message-ID: <162611911684.26188.3793548896666723384@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:45:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08.txt X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:45:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange WG of the IETF. Title : Ephemeral Diffie-Hellman Over COSE (EDHOC) Authors : Göran Selander John Preuß Mattsson Francesca Palombini Filename : draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08.txt Pages : 102 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: This document specifies Ephemeral Diffie-Hellman Over COSE (EDHOC), a very compact and lightweight authenticated Diffie-Hellman key exchange with ephemeral keys. EDHOC provides mutual authentication, perfect forward secrecy, and identity protection. EDHOC is intended for usage in constrained scenarios and a main use case is to establish an OSCORE security context. By reusing COSE for cryptography, CBOR for encoding, and CoAP for transport, the additional code size can be kept very low. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lake-edhoc/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 18 00:30:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F68B3A1266 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-6I4gEtB94K for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4BFC3A1264 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id g16so17443822wrw.5 for ; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:mime-version:from:to:subject; bh=nLsCTZStFKDg5YYh2Q7g33xqqSWeQk2ZNQikjQqkHa8=; b=J5Dqx68aIPHUukAK6Lpx5skICpKfYhqSwvRuxVY+SlYnY+KadsTztjfaMWzbjNJa/e VaRYUQmI1NRbSpbHNK0M33X+t/VBX+01SbohbCZdgDgyTRoLOv9LtAAHfECjz6a9js5E w9otAVi6iE17MnRSCJwH+EyivnV77qs8+MZIzy//+Tb4a+yLqmjWsPnvVl88fVOHNjQD 2n6ptThm91s57EqjzabnEzMzTDDw2MBnFuPgjKmmE9i2T3dHKd/5ys0KRFnmlY6lubX6 fHHzhNeMW/UdTCnkRfAAsp/yC7b32qGUyqL2RJY8fT5GFhuPl6c/AOZuT+dnDnwFXzEg m9lw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:from:to:subject; bh=nLsCTZStFKDg5YYh2Q7g33xqqSWeQk2ZNQikjQqkHa8=; b=ACGxHDb6TwcsYVFBXeQOuS4qMRnDHVuT4BoedzANSqsH4yMMr7Dpc9zNUT2cM8RArW R41CZArYgBlU1b6M42KmQQT5TNquzIbBfPzyBbZUnu0xx1EXmcqYMh1rRw5qUuwU1eC0 2Nt4ztrX9qNmcwq7vep4q0398Ie6VsLJxB642VEniTNEu6X1RQwCenLkwQqq+g+Gd1hi Ad2+G5OgYbwEgoj3TwtEAh+WSjWbEUbYjFbllx7nlHLSBdjSwOEm3EdJj7HlvDCDAgbo w+OBivUETUe5T9B7rFETpsrFPyBaQaUbETZNWuAYn7TFBf1OJu3yWBCqvJ4F5sZbV+5C nTaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532v2efAoeM5YKijCfThqzaXtLhBe+hwx+XPxTZnk3HdD8zLgqBD 6MzfSi9vUQIFu83GmKsaqmcxjPyrA0M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzar+oOaQjj18/I0RLhKr7l/w7oxRFNV6HPJUt4K/1M5JpC/FEN4yPecGWgRRjifU1i1jw2Fg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:548:: with SMTP id b8mr3555604wrf.159.1626593412218; Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from basil.dsg.cs.tcd.ie (basil.dsg.cs.tcd.ie. [134.226.36.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 19sm13252682wmu.17.2021.07.18.00.30.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60f3d883.1c69fb81.4b62a.9b41@mx.google.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===============9165582407129080127==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Webmaster via GitHub API To: lake@ietf.org Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] Weekly github digest (reqs, edhoc) X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 07:30:20 -0000 --===============9165582407129080127== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" Issues ------ * lake-wg/edhoc (+1/-9/=F0=9F=92=AC24) 1 issues created: - Recommended transport of EDHOC (by malishav) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/132=20 14 issues received 24 new comments: - #126 IANA register for EAD types (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/126=20 - #120 Initial set of cipher suites (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/120=20 - #118 C_1: use "nil" instead of "null" (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/118=20 - #105 Simplifying the correlation (2 by chrysn, gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/105=20 - #103 Optimization of message size (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/103=20 - #89 editorial / usability: corr and C_x omission (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/89=20 - #87 Compressing ".well-known/edhoc" (3 by chrysn, gselander, marco-tilo= ca-sics) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/87=20 - #84 Make .well-known/edhoc specific to OSCORE (4 by chrysn, gselander, = marco-tiloca-sics) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/84=20 - #79 Coding density for bstr_identifier (2 by chrysn, gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/79=20 - #75 Move 7.2. Transferring EDHOC in CoAP to draft-palombini? (2 by gse= lander, malishav) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/75=20 - #64 Max retransmissions of EDHOC messages (2 by gselander, marco-tiloca= -sics) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/64=20 - #61 Change message_1 format (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/61=20 - #39 Add guidelines for distinguishing received messages. Relates to #30= . (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/39=20 - #22 Mandatory to implement cipher suite (2 by gselander, malishav) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/22=20 9 issues closed: - Compressing ".well-known/edhoc" https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues= /87=20 - Coding density for bstr_identifier https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/iss= ues/79=20 - Simplifying the correlation https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/105= =20 - Move 7.2. Transferring EDHOC in CoAP to draft-palombini? https://githu= b.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/75=20 - IANA register for EAD types https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/126= =20 - Initial set of cipher suites https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/12= 0=20 - editorial / usability: corr and C_x omission https://github.com/lake-wg= /edhoc/issues/89=20 - Change message_1 format https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/61=20 - Add guidelines for distinguishing received messages. Relates to #30. ht= tps://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/39=20 Repositories tracked by this digest: ----------------------------------- * https://github.com/lake-wg/reqs * https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc --===============9165582407129080127== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weekly github digest (reqs, edhoc)

Sunday July 18, 2021

Issues

lake-wg/edhoc (+1/-9/=F0=9F=92=AC24)

1 issues created:

14 issues received 24 new comments:

9 issues closed:

Repositories tracked by this digest:
--===============9165582407129080127==-- From nobody Mon Jul 19 03:37:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6463A2E92 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 03:37:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.195 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.195 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ow69Kzt8ldpp for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 03:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED28F3A2E90 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 03:37:33 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-HdrOrdr: =?us-ascii?q?A9a23=3AcR4FXKoAY0IpxmnP97SwmcUaV5ryeYIsimQD?= =?us-ascii?q?101hICG9E/b1qynKpp8mPHDP5wr5J0tPpTntAsi9qFnnlaKdmLNhXotKBTOW2l?= =?us-ascii?q?dAT7sSiLcKvQeQfxEWrdQtspuIGpIWYOEYa2IK6/oSizPULz9P+rO6GFTDv5am?= =?us-ascii?q?854Ud3ATV0nqhD0JcTpymCZNNXN77SNTLuvg2vZ6?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,251,1620684000"; d="scan'208,217";a="520531493" Received: from clt-128-93-181-184.vpn.inria.fr (HELO [128.93.181.184]) ([128.93.181.184]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jul 2021 12:37:30 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.11.0.180909 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:37:27 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFsacWhYQ==?= =?UTF-8?B?IFZ1xI1pbmnEhw==?= To: "lake@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Lake] LAKE @ IETF 111: Agenda items Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3709543050_1685870273" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lake] LAKE @ IETF 111: Agenda items X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:37:40 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3709543050_1685870273 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable All, =20 We have just posted a preliminary agenda for the IETF 111 meeting. It is av= ailable at: =20 https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-lake-00 =20 Presenters, please upload your slides to the datatracker or send them to la= ke-chairs@ietf.org by Monday, July 26th, 2000 UTC. We are looking for a note= taker and a jabber scribe for the meeting, please let us know if you=E2=80=99d li= ke to volunteer! =20 Mali=C5=A1a =20 From: Lake on behalf of Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 Date: Thursday 1 July 2021 at 09:06 To: "lake@ietf.org" Subject: [Lake] LAKE @ IETF 111: Agenda items =20 All, =20 According to the preliminary IETF 111 agenda, LAKE will be meeting on Thurs= day, July 29th, 2021 at 19:00 UTC. We will have a 1-hour session this time. =20 As usual, the major part of the meeting will be devoted to the status and o= pen issues of draft-ietf-lake-edhoc. If you would like to bring another topi= c up for discussion at the meeting, please let the chairs know at lake-chair= s@ietf.org by Friday, July 16th, 2021. =20 Thanks and looking forward to the meeting! =20 Mali=C5=A1a =20 -- Lake mailing list Lake@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/la= ke=20 --B_3709543050_1685870273 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable --B_3709543050_1685870273-- From nobody Sun Jul 25 00:30:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2758F3A1A4C for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRRL_VN-5sZP for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C80F3A1A4E for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id r2so7122966wrl.1 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:date:mime-version:from:to:subject; bh=zIywcx+TNbjwzC9SNqZVadI3AE3KBayAOfbtyF40xYQ=; b=gc9z0mFJIvBxdow4jwcwYvrv5wQ05lOSXw9tJqOps/CJqy+WWTBcPqZh9CtetQYhV3 Yi68LjXmGxNrtD6tvSfD6JXHAlTqGUszNdNhGJu4HkEqRR9yUhnL6k31vjHkOec/JQOr RA8vNbctpV1/ZLEE06i5GH64Pqku4R1kadgTbcrwwpIgFVhaTf4H0If1MTv3wJgQvKCI Y/XekzbO2hbRdJMpJXZ3OyaESsEhykWABmh3Hsvnx4XxIyVUrPcH6phJSznQGCs3gYaE XnNlEQXxaPbvIX5zLQNhepg4IENMebUGS+mASxkR5J+lRzlM+VO0nmbHQJuOpV/s/bzK nqog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:from:to:subject; bh=zIywcx+TNbjwzC9SNqZVadI3AE3KBayAOfbtyF40xYQ=; b=BZTlwBGBqHaCiS3v7XGpjBPFHw0gF5pvYY2k6jwo1Jxx685tijHKSfkKo2Ajcrzyhm WCEnExf3KNsnKO3UU2ZMKWGH/2obA4KE4+cy1DFH+Zp+dxYbJfibpEivwVwHmMx+J9Y/ aom4VaQGzhBbbU6YLRZKIcKqSlDObFU8n6tZDZj8Id4YzL2OBd+xIbqFDnO1W6Wjt4Vg 41gDaSQz7weJAyNfH5NlBstw7/Gu0BiXoy0nf4I8dOGowJGCsBf2JLSwM+FN945B2WWT J1zFJUc+zQDzViH+U//HsgIzavheNy/30LvI+qPXTc/m+OKxD6dY51l2CkX5PXa+NNhk PPSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532SiCPyBc4ZNMjNA2KnujrF56xeUgc8ifHPyhRWs1DGnGUn9xzu H1Gd0goptTH/Ccs0g0KBM2DEjXrOrPg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxAoewGq+zStuPlrzAZ6d0PLIDEHc8hNZ6QcjSpqrKmAbf0aglOd7O+9KR1eFDVTWjbCBNf5A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f2d1:: with SMTP id d17mr13444396wrp.254.1627198211980; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from basil.dsg.cs.tcd.ie (basil.dsg.cs.tcd.ie. [134.226.36.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s6sm45075738wrt.45.2021.07.25.00.30.11 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60fd1303.1c69fb81.3df4c.f9f7@mx.google.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===============7241466981307814634==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Webmaster via GitHub API To: lake@ietf.org Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] Weekly github digest (reqs, edhoc) X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:30:19 -0000 --===============7241466981307814634== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" Issues ------ * lake-wg/edhoc (+2/-10/=F0=9F=92=AC12) 2 issues created: - Detailing EDHOC error in CoAP error (by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/134=20 - "Empty byte string" (by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/133=20 11 issues received 12 new comments: - #134 Detailing EDHOC error in CoAP error (2 by gselander, marco-tiloca-= sics) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/134=20 - #125 CRED_x in CWT format (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/125=20 - #121 EDHOC is not secure with the future planned encryption algorithms = for the AEAD interface (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/121=20 - #115 Transfer CWT (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/115=20 - #95 Dependency between corr and transport (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/95=20 - #91 Implementation guidance for CoAP (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/91=20 - #90 Clarify "auxiliary data" (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/90=20 - #88 Opportunistic use (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/88=20 - #82 COSE header map for public key (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/82=20 - #81 Effects of limited amounts of randomness (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/81=20 - #62 COSE_Key content constrained according to EDHOC (1 by gselander) https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/62=20 10 issues closed: - COSE_Key content constrained according to EDHOC https://github.com/lake= -wg/edhoc/issues/62=20 - COSE header map for public key https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/= 82=20 - Self-contained specification https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/1 = - Clarify "auxiliary data" https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/90=20 - Applicability statement can depend on conditions during EDHOC execution= https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/80=20 - Implementation guidance for CoAP https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issue= s/91=20 - Dependency between corr and transport https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/= issues/95=20 - C_1: use "nil" instead of "null" https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issue= s/118=20 - Determining CRED_x from ID_CRED_x https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issu= es/128=20 - Recommended transport of EDHOC https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc/issues/= 132=20 Repositories tracked by this digest: ----------------------------------- * https://github.com/lake-wg/reqs * https://github.com/lake-wg/edhoc --===============7241466981307814634== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weekly github digest (reqs, edhoc)

Sunday July 25, 2021

Issues

lake-wg/edhoc (+2/-10/=F0=9F=92=AC12)

2 issues created:

11 issues received 12 new comments:

10 issues closed:

Repositories tracked by this digest:
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boundary="6jb5mxCYirjunh8rXurn938Ktr7qtgbz5"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: "lake@ietf.org" Cc: =?UTF-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Message-ID: <262c1c57-6c29-bda1-5bb2-27acef223ea0@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: lake meeting note takers --6jb5mxCYirjunh8rXurn938Ktr7qtgbz5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8DD6CBCB87069DFE8396AE2B" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8DD6CBCB87069DFE8396AE2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The IETF-111 lake session is this evening (my time:-) at 1900 UTC. If we could get some volunteers for note-taking and jabber scribe that'd be great. If you're willing, just drop Mali=C5=A1a and I a note off list and you'll have our eternal thanks. (Well, maybe not eternal:-) Cheers, S. --------------8DD6CBCB87069DFE8396AE2B Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0x5AB2FAF17B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nemCP5PMvmh5= Cg8 gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kTq0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq= 978 CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtEgvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGu= D/Q 9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy+pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4= tNn cejJPz0p2z3MWCp5iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqB= wV+ 4uL9to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghVB5Uir= 1GC YChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWav= ACY Ea7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8D= VQu 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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEEW7Wm6ldl0sWGPK4nWrL68XsXK+oFAmEClXwFAwAAAAAACgkQWrL68XsXK+qR wQ/+MHUVZtK1Y+THm1D0BSjEs/SCsvxo9nsmBwFvlsUFIN4BCHVxl/yBP2RCctCM9EVTaIymFqWc S2yUZi378QR+fPJpZCKZfc67XW/UXe4hsJTDQ81gZhevzt3vfY65vhLTskil9W5CJAC+9zP/SGoW GDxB0YuCpkIRHkhDef170/r2iu8gXQZjCn/P1MzPFWnSh35ibZD9gy8op/6LWjk2FtcuQqu7VUBn afBDDZQm1uitZHulh6XJb+MTfZkp1J3xyzDo7HH1LtqFBrkBes8PN3EFWXfqFJfzsPkh27S8CTUY RACUglB/DiwZXs6X94szu8dv1zLWLvRvGCRqnDsS5+F1VbrJAI3lzzXbnZApMdSX+esfz0wy9yRX NBantlyeDy0N2BKCeGsStcpZCpWbEf/Jlfp5KLY4u5VTYWxfnwmxvwt5JdnJ/s+eRs5xhp91cXoo HeqqBhuyv3v67efFvOEQqUB6Ii+NcmL7dDNz7gB6/I3fq1OCcb2sW0WEawuoyFvG6ThuxYXCabJ0 PqJWwjVdfLh5EeUEa2XDAisVmUdqv1GPH4qfz50rB8b7dBmzb7eahfov21UZpLqGYFCGc3JMkpu9 6MWuvU/smZcw4VCQ7wfVzdaa8NLvs+OgX1Ksj97wJz6Ad82Bu2sblnnYJZ6wPHsHLwExoxYmBbAK IFQ= =l9f9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ON2o9NVGkkgPtyRWaxHIj2ZoCd48LHYcJ-- From nobody Fri Jul 30 00:40:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56ACB3A205A for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:40:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a5PLSgQfKMLn for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8C773A2057 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:39:54 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-HdrOrdr: =?us-ascii?q?A9a23=3Au9y4NavB+cuDavgyeV37ee3A7skDFdV00zEX?= =?us-ascii?q?/kB9WHVpm62j/fxG88506faZsl0ssQ8b9uxoSZPsfZq0z/cc3WB7B9uftWfd2V?= =?us-ascii?q?dAVLsD0bff?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,281,1620684000"; d="scan'208,217";a="389339507" Received: from unknown (HELO smtpclient.apple) ([79.143.111.218]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Jul 2021 09:39:10 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37CF4849-864D-4E0A-BFC6-3625DDE92816" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-Id: <5B86F104-37F3-41BE-9483-9818DCD1B664@inria.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:39:03 +0200 To: lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] LAKE @ IETF 111: Follow up and minutes X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 07:40:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_37CF4849-864D-4E0A-BFC6-3625DDE92816 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 All, Thank you for the productive meeting yesterday. We have just posted the = minutes [1] and the recording will be published shortly. Many, many thanks to Marco Tiloca and Robert Wilton for taking notes = during the meeting. As agreed, we will schedule a virtual interim meeting for the end of = September, beginning of October. A doodle will follow shortly. In the meantime, enjoy the summer period! Mali=C5=A1a [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-111-lake/ = --Apple-Mail=_37CF4849-864D-4E0A-BFC6-3625DDE92816 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 All,

Thank = you for the productive meeting yesterday. We have just posted the = minutes [1] and the recording will be published shortly.

Many, many thanks to = Marco Tiloca and Robert Wilton for taking notes during the = meeting.

As = agreed, we will schedule a virtual interim meeting for the end of = September, beginning of October. A doodle will follow shortly.

In the meantime, enjoy = the summer period!

Mali=C5=A1a


= --Apple-Mail=_37CF4849-864D-4E0A-BFC6-3625DDE92816-- From nobody Fri Jul 30 00:54:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC6F3A20CF for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pa8r5D5TqCwv for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6E5D3A210F for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 00:53:55 -0700 (PDT) IronPort-HdrOrdr: =?us-ascii?q?A9a23=3ABC9XgK+g8N+TZlj2XSBuk+DNI+orL9Y04lQ7?= =?us-ascii?q?vn2ZKCYlEPBw+PrDoB1273DJYVUqKRIdcLK7WZVoKEm0nfNICOIqXYtKMjOJhI?= =?us-ascii?q?KvFupfxJqnwjXqGyj/67Q1781dT5Q=3D?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,281,1620684000"; d="scan'208,217";a="389340656" Received: from unknown (HELO smtpclient.apple) ([79.143.111.218]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Jul 2021 09:53:52 +0200 From: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_632681E5-FDA6-4C8C-B7CE-AE407FFCB0EF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-Id: <5FA9DECB-6432-4F54-BE45-9886987F071F@inria.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 09:53:44 +0200 To: lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] Poll for interim-2021-lake-04 to fill in by August 6th X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 07:54:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_632681E5-FDA6-4C8C-B7CE-AE407FFCB0EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, To schedule the next virtual interim, please fill in the following = Doodle poll by Friday, August 6th: https://doodle.com/poll/divzkf5s2knmukpu = Mali=C5=A1a= --Apple-Mail=_632681E5-FDA6-4C8C-B7CE-AE407FFCB0EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = all,

To schedule the = next virtual interim, please fill in the following Doodle poll by = Friday, August 6th:


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from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id LWDLzFTebX6f for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:37:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A237562620 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 03:37:39 -0500 (EST) To: Lake@ietf.org From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <64717eb2-84db-f5a1-2ad1-9d71d8d4f51c@htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:48:38 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 19:48:54 -0000 Greetings Lakers.  ;) From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and let me tell you, Superior is COLD!). I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as good as can be done with KMAC.  Please see my draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF.  I also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 include hashing. This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak. WRT to use as a KDF.  In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the extract-and-expand.  You do not need to invoke KMAC twice. In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is waiting SP800-108 update.  But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish.  Team Keccak has confirmed this revaluation.  NIST has hedged its position, as one would expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19). Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC's single sponge invocation.  This is an important performance consideration in constrained devices.  Even if SHA-256 is marginally faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good. On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on how many key bits needed).  Again a performance gain. I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage. Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021.  It behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion and last call of lake-edhoc. thank you for consideration. 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protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha256; boundary="B_3710508339_1998189172" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN5P110MB0560.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a9e2f492-d542-445a-eaee-08d9539afda6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Jul 2021 20:45:39.4070 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 83d1efe3-698e-4819-911b-0a8fbe79d01c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN5P110MB0382 X-OriginatorOrg: ll.mit.edu X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-30_11:2021-07-30, 2021-07-30 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2103310000 definitions=main-2107300142 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:45:59 -0000 --B_3710508339_1998189172 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A complete newcomer here, most likely lacking the context. But all that aside - doesn't KMAC require AES-128, as opposed to AES-256? I= s it a concern, and if not - why not? -- Regards, Uri =20 There are two ways to design a system. One is to make is so simple there ar= e obviously no deficiencies. The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies. = - C. A. R. Hoare =20 =EF=BB=BFOn 7/30/21, 15:50, "Lake on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" wrote: Greetings Lakers. ;) From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and=20 let me tell you, Superior is COLD!). I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as=20 good as can be done with KMAC. Please see my draft: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF. I=20 also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4=20 include hashing. This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak. WRT to use as a KDF. In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak=20 (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the=20 extract-and-expand. You do not need to invoke KMAC twice. In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is=20 waiting SP800-108 update. But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly=20 what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish. Team Keccak has=20 confirmed this revaluation. NIST has hedged its position, as one would= =20 expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19). Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC'= s=20 single sponge invocation. This is an important performance=20 consideration in constrained devices. Even if SHA-256 is marginally=20 faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good. On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on=20 how many key bits needed). Again a performance gain. I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usag= e. Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021. It=20 behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This=20 could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion=20 and last call of lake-edhoc. thank you for consideration. --=20 Lake mailing list Lake@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake --B_3710508339_1998189172 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIUfQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIUbjCCFGoCAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADALBgkqhkiG9w0B BwGgghJDMIIE8zCCA9ugAwIBAgITWQAE/KGDHCQY5NLn7AAAAAT8oTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsF ADBRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEfMB0GA1UECgwWTUlUIExpbmNvbG4gTGFib3JhdG9yeTEMMAoG A1UECwwDUEtJMRMwEQYDVQQDDApNSVRMTCBDQS01MB4XDTIwMTIxMTAwMDQ0OVoXDTI1MTIx MDAwMDQ0OVowYTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxHzAdBgNVBAoTFk1JVCBMaW5jb2xuIExhYm9yYXRv cnkxDzANBgNVBAsTBlBlb3BsZTEgMB4GA1UEAxMXQmx1bWVudGhhbC5VcmkuNTAwMTA1ODQw ggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCKE/w5SMRbjqdnzi3xm35MTfqSl/hP NjMbDakZIdbjOM3UKEmPFXc6a6VU/QqOJUi6ndjw0tH7RCVP73bdRPXO/E8WiAaaSYG6Ddqr 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B923A10D3 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:09:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QjNtNVP-3bHV for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:09:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E108F3A09E7 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A0A62653; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 04:58:20 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 5oVufK5W6tNs; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 04:58:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C2459624C7; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 04:58:05 -0500 (EST) To: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" , "Lake@ietf.org" References: <64717eb2-84db-f5a1-2ad1-9d71d8d4f51c@htt-consult.com> <8DA1AB98-2204-460D-A56F-FD23099FB9F5@ll.mit.edu> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <3491f565-ae3d-ebd6-0a3b-00b594ea88f1@htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:09:01 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8DA1AB98-2204-460D-A56F-FD23099FB9F5@ll.mit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C44A2831DFC77F86FF08C3B5" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:09:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C44A2831DFC77F86FF08C3B5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/30/21 4:45 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote: > A complete newcomer here, most likely lacking the context. Of course a newcomer to Lake.  And I am interested in the context as I have been looking at switching to SHAKE/cSHAKE/KMAC where changes are occuring. > But all that aside - doesn't KMAC require AES-128, as opposed to AES-256? Is it a concern, and if not - why not? No.  KMAC does not use AES at all.  It is a specific SHAKE invocation described in SP800-185.  One argument against NIST Keccak use is the size of the sponge.  A smaller sponge would work just fine to deliver 128 bit strength with resulting memory and performance gains.  A 800 bit sponge does the job, but then you are not NIST compliant and probably won't find the code base (1600 bit sponge is what is in openSSL). Instead of pushing for a smaller sponge for SHAKE, I have been advised to work with LWC, which I have in the form of Xoodyak.  Of course Xoodyak is a type of placeholder in how to use a good LWC hash until NIST finishes... And if your point is hash strength, KMAC-256 is there.  It does not use AES at all, but DOES require a 1600 bit sponge.  And none of the LWC that I have looked at provide 256 bit strength.  All there in FIPS-202 and SP800-185. > -- > Regards, > Uri > > There are two ways to design a system. One is to make is so simple there are obviously no deficiencies. > The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies. > - C. A. R. Hoare Amen to that! > > > On 7/30/21, 15:50, "Lake on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" wrote: > > Greetings Lakers. ;) > > From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and > let me tell you, Superior is COLD!). > > I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as > good as can be done with KMAC. Please see my draft: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ > > Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF. I > also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 > include hashing. > > This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak. > > WRT to use as a KDF. In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak > (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the > extract-and-expand. You do not need to invoke KMAC twice. > > > In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is > waiting SP800-108 update. But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly > what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish. Team Keccak has > confirmed this revaluation. NIST has hedged its position, as one would > expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19). > > > Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC's > single sponge invocation. This is an important performance > consideration in constrained devices. Even if SHA-256 is marginally > faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good. > > On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on > how many key bits needed). Again a performance gain. > > I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage. > > Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021. It > behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This > could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion > and last call of lake-edhoc. > > thank you for consideration. > > -- > Lake mailing list > Lake@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake > --------------C44A2831DFC77F86FF08C3B5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 7/30/21 4:45 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote:
A complete newcomer here, most likely lacking the context.

Of course a newcomer to Lake.  And I am interested in the context as I have been looking at switching to SHAKE/cSHAKE/KMAC where changes are occuring.

But all that aside - doesn't KMAC require AES-128, as opposed to AES-256? Is it a concern, and if not - why not?

No.  KMAC does not use AES at all.  It is a specific SHAKE invocation described in SP800-185.  One argument against NIST Keccak use is the size of the sponge.  A smaller sponge would work just fine to deliver 128 bit strength with resulting memory and performance gains.  A 800 bit sponge does the job, but then you are not NIST compliant and probably won't find the code base (1600 bit sponge is what is in openSSL).

Instead of pushing for a smaller sponge for SHAKE, I have been advised to work with LWC, which I have in the form of Xoodyak.  Of course Xoodyak is a type of placeholder in how to use a good LWC hash until NIST finishes...

And if your point is hash strength, KMAC-256 is there.  It does not use AES at all, but DOES require a 1600 bit sponge.  And none of the LWC that I have looked at provide 256 bit strength.  All there in FIPS-202 and SP800-185.

--
Regards,
Uri
 
There are two ways to design a system. One is to make is so simple there are obviously no deficiencies.
The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies.
                                                                                                                                     -  C. A. R. Hoare

Amen to that!

 

On 7/30/21, 15:50, "Lake on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" <lake-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rgm-sec@htt-consult.com> wrote:

    Greetings Lakers.  ;)

     From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and 
    let me tell you, Superior is COLD!).

    I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as 
    good as can be done with KMAC.  Please see my draft:

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/

    Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF.  I 
    also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 
    include hashing.

    This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak.

    WRT to use as a KDF.  In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak 
    (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the 
    extract-and-expand.  You do not need to invoke KMAC twice.


    In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is 
    waiting SP800-108 update.  But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly 
    what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish.  Team Keccak has 
    confirmed this revaluation.  NIST has hedged its position, as one would 
    expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19).


    Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC's 
    single sponge invocation.  This is an important performance 
    consideration in constrained devices.  Even if SHA-256 is marginally 
    faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good.

    On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on 
    how many key bits needed).  Again a performance gain.

    I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage.

    Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021.  It 
    behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This 
    could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion 
    and last call of lake-edhoc.

    thank you for consideration.

    -- 
    Lake mailing list
    Lake@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake


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b=e7aW7m6NOkFDc50H6l5CQSjotOf+yG4AXhfEeGBBGdgjEyKlbdPnldvfqFmHMw+PbSvdoS7T8BPrhVz14xoLnj92Wnd1HofMyR842tHECGJYJL2aZIFOzF6bVjQwCjuYgY9luNqKhrtaE6i4IOOwpmYHi0va0TkrCXL5nb6gI1sqn/bDHGqEv/6ia22VYPbfcnhtpN7OliKXbQVlzw9T0sIRbvTVnZvOSpDTDe8lAI9kwVasTOGFV4gp5fcnZkilGbRCXCZg9MxP8KjyZq8xpjtb4YuLPDrXDRlzfGF/xwqclgMIandru8jk1+gWPkaIIuPHHcpIp846FDudpl8zzw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ll.mit.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ll.mit.edu; dkim=pass header.d=ll.mit.edu; arc=none From: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" To: Robert Moskowitz CC: "lake@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 Thread-Index: AQHXhXwZKoJ2zkN6okiHR9r7uXutWqtbua4AgABJloCAAAKSgA== Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:18:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1B135ECD-F85D-4D0B-80EB-0B07B13875F0@ll.mit.edu> References: <3491f565-ae3d-ebd6-0a3b-00b594ea88f1@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: <3491f565-ae3d-ebd6-0a3b-00b594ea88f1@htt-consult.com> Accept-Language: en-US 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AAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-F4BEE075-3E81-4CEB-8CC0-77A18C7AA3EF-- From nobody Fri Jul 30 14:44:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316223A125D for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iIizLH0Joarl for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB15C3A1284 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B384362620; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 05:32:47 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 5W9Jx4oCPuos; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 05:32:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A94FE62653; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 05:32:38 -0500 (EST) To: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" Cc: "lake@ietf.org" References: <3491f565-ae3d-ebd6-0a3b-00b594ea88f1@htt-consult.com> <1B135ECD-F85D-4D0B-80EB-0B07B13875F0@ll.mit.edu> From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 17:43:37 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1B135ECD-F85D-4D0B-80EB-0B07B13875F0@ll.mit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------678FFF800D5FA01FA8E0573F" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:44:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------678FFF800D5FA01FA8E0573F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/30/21 5:18 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote: > >> On Jul 30, 2021, at 17:10, Robert Moskowitz >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> On 7/30/21 4:45 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote: >>> A complete newcomer here, most likely lacking the context. >> Of course a newcomer to Lake. > > I meant myself, and my comments. ;-) There will hopefully be a number of newcomers reviewing this.  That is the way the security area works. > >> And I am interested in the context as I have been looking at >> switching to SHAKE/cSHAKE/KMAC where changes are occuring. > > Personally, my only concern with SHAKE would be its performance, as > there isn't much HW acceleration yet, nor a push for it. If specified for IoT, it will come as the HW designs are there. Also for LWC. > >>> But all that aside - doesn't KMAC require AES-128, as opposed to AES-256? Is it a concern, and if not - why not? >> >> No.  KMAC does not use AES at all.  It is a specific SHAKE invocation >> described in SP800-185.  One argument against NIST Keccak use is the >> size of the sponge.  A smaller sponge would work just fine to deliver >> 128 bit strength with resulting memory and performance gains.  A 800 >> bit sponge does the job, but then you are not NIST compliant and >> probably won't find the code base (1600 bit sponge is what is in >> openSSL). > > Darn... I should work less, or lay off stiff drinks. :-) Uri, your heritage is showing.  :) > > Of course - *CMAC* is AES-based. > >> Instead of pushing for a smaller sponge for SHAKE, I have been >> advised to work with LWC, which I have in the form of Xoodyak.  Of >> course Xoodyak is a type of placeholder in how to use a good LWC hash >> until NIST finishes... >> >> And if your point is hash strength, KMAC-256 is there.  It does not >> use AES at all, but DOES require a 1600 bit sponge.  And none of the >> LWC that I have looked at provide 256 bit strength.  All there in >> FIPS-202 and SP800-185. > > My personal recommendation is to bite the bullet and use 1600-but sponge. Have to or write your own code.  This is NOT a parameter in the software; too much changes when you change the sponge size.  Also a KMAC-128 with a 1600 bit sponge gets a different answer than it would with a 800 bit sponge.  You would have to include the sponge size in your algorthim negotiation. I looked at it hard back in '19.  After talks with NIST and Team Keccak, I drew back from playing with sponge size and have focused on LWC. > > As for LWC - what's your take on Romulus? I did one can only accept > AEAD that's nonce misuse-resistant. I need to go through the Xoodyak doc.  There are at least 2 ways to do the nonce; Gilles pointed out how each works and said that what I am doing is fine.  But I don't recall all the text around the nonce reuse and need to go back to the doc.  Next week, I will respond on this point. > > Thnx > -- >>> Regards, >>> Uri >>> >>> There are two ways to design a system. One is to make is so simple there are obviously no deficiencies. >>> The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies. >>> - C. A. R. Hoare >> >> Amen to that! >> >>> >>> >>> On 7/30/21, 15:50, "Lake on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" wrote: >>> >>> Greetings Lakers. ;) >>> >>> From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and >>> let me tell you, Superior is COLD!). >>> >>> I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as >>> good as can be done with KMAC. Please see my draft: >>> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ >>> >>> Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF. I >>> also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 >>> include hashing. >>> >>> This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak. >>> >>> WRT to use as a KDF. In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak >>> (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the >>> extract-and-expand. You do not need to invoke KMAC twice. >>> >>> >>> In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is >>> waiting SP800-108 update. But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly >>> what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish. Team Keccak has >>> confirmed this revaluation. NIST has hedged its position, as one would >>> expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19). >>> >>> >>> Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC's >>> single sponge invocation. This is an important performance >>> consideration in constrained devices. Even if SHA-256 is marginally >>> faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good. >>> >>> On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on >>> how many key bits needed). Again a performance gain. >>> >>> I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage. >>> >>> Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021. It >>> behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This >>> could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion >>> and last call of lake-edhoc. >>> >>> thank you for consideration. >>> >>> -- >>> Lake mailing list >>> Lake@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake >>> >> > --------------678FFF800D5FA01FA8E0573F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 7/30/21 5:18 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote:

On Jul 30, 2021, at 17:10, Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.com> wrote:



On 7/30/21 4:45 PM, Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL wrote:
A complete newcomer here, most likely lacking the context.
Of course a newcomer to Lake. 

I meant myself, and my comments. ;-)

There will hopefully be a number of newcomers reviewing this.  That is the way the security area works.


And I am interested in the context as I have been looking at switching to SHAKE/cSHAKE/KMAC where changes are occuring.

Personally, my only concern with SHAKE would be its performance, as there isn't much HW acceleration yet, nor a push for it.

If specified for IoT, it will come as the HW designs are there.  Also for LWC.


But all that aside - doesn't KMAC require AES-128, as opposed to AES-256? Is it a concern, and if not - why not?

No.  KMAC does not use AES at all.  It is a specific SHAKE invocation described in SP800-185.  One argument against NIST Keccak use is the size of the sponge.  A smaller sponge would work just fine to deliver 128 bit strength with resulting memory and performance gains.  A 800 bit sponge does the job, but then you are not NIST compliant and probably won't find the code base (1600 bit sponge is what is in openSSL).

Darn... I should work less, or lay off stiff drinks. :-)

Uri, your heritage is showing.  :)


Of course - CMAC is AES-based. 

Instead of pushing for a smaller sponge for SHAKE, I have been advised to work with LWC, which I have in the form of Xoodyak.  Of course Xoodyak is a type of placeholder in how to use a good LWC hash until NIST finishes...

And if your point is hash strength, KMAC-256 is there.  It does not use AES at all, but DOES require a 1600 bit sponge.  And none of the LWC that I have looked at provide 256 bit strength.  All there in FIPS-202 and SP800-185.

My personal recommendation is to bite the bullet and use 1600-but sponge.

Have to or write your own code.  This is NOT a parameter in the software; too much changes when you change the sponge size.  Also a KMAC-128 with a 1600 bit sponge gets a different answer than it would with a 800 bit sponge.  You would have to include the sponge size in your algorthim negotiation.

I looked at it hard back in '19.  After talks with NIST and Team Keccak, I drew back from playing with sponge size and have focused on LWC.


As for LWC - what's your take on Romulus? I did one can only accept AEAD that's nonce misuse-resistant.

I need to go through the Xoodyak doc.  There are at least 2 ways to do the nonce; Gilles pointed out how each works and said that what I am doing is fine.  But I don't recall all the text around the nonce reuse and need to go back to the doc.  Next week, I will respond on this point.



Thnx
--
Regards,
Uri
 
There are two ways to design a system. One is to make is so simple there are obviously no deficiencies.
The other is to make it so complex there are no obvious deficiencies.
                                                                                                                                     -  C. A. R. Hoare

Amen to that!

 

On 7/30/21, 15:50, "Lake on behalf of Robert Moskowitz" <lake-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of rgm-sec@htt-consult.com> wrote:

    Greetings Lakers.  ;)

     From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and 
    let me tell you, Superior is COLD!).

    I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as 
    good as can be done with KMAC.  Please see my draft:

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/

    Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF.  I 
    also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 
    include hashing.

    This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak.

    WRT to use as a KDF.  In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak 
    (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the 
    extract-and-expand.  You do not need to invoke KMAC twice.


    In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is 
    waiting SP800-108 update.  But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly 
    what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish.  Team Keccak has 
    confirmed this revaluation.  NIST has hedged its position, as one would 
    expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec '19).


    Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to KMAC's 
    single sponge invocation.  This is an important performance 
    consideration in constrained devices.  Even if SHA-256 is marginally 
    faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good.

    On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on 
    how many key bits needed).  Again a performance gain.

    I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage.

    Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021.  It 
    behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This 
    could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion 
    and last call of lake-edhoc.

    thank you for consideration.

    -- 
    Lake mailing list
    Lake@ietf.org
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake




--------------678FFF800D5FA01FA8E0573F-- From nobody Fri Jul 30 15:33:37 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lake@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA61C3A1400 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NEQnc3NnJ-Al for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [23.123.122.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 250683A13FE for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B3F62653 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:22:28 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id JxGgaxmXFKtX for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from lx140e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FA1562620 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:22:23 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Moskowitz To: Lake@ietf.org References: <64717eb2-84db-f5a1-2ad1-9d71d8d4f51c@htt-consult.com> Message-ID: <544e923d-e00d-f572-6865-5cc87f1201a2@htt-consult.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:33:19 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <64717eb2-84db-f5a1-2ad1-9d71d8d4f51c@htt-consult.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Lake] Review of KMAC in draft-ietf-lake-edhoc-08 X-BeenThere: lake@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:33:35 -0000 Also you should probably add references for NIST FIPS-202, SP800-185, and SP800-56Cr1.  I can provide xml2RFC stuff for that as I have them in my draft (or just grab my xml from drafts repo). On 7/30/21 3:48 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > Greetings Lakers.  ;) > > From a Great Lakes person (only one I have not swum in is Ontario and > let me tell you, Superior is COLD!). > > I have looked at your use of KMAC and it is a good start, but not as > good as can be done with KMAC.  Please see my draft: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moskowitz-hip-new-crypto/ > > Not only do I use KMAC for HMAC replacement, but also as the KDF. I > also include Xoodyak, one of the NIST LWC finalists of which only 4 > include hashing. > > This draft has been implemented in openHIP and reviewed by Team Keccak. > > WRT to use as a KDF.  In my discussions with NIST and Team Keccak > (including F2F at IACR RWC Jan '20) KMAC directly does the > extract-and-expand.  You do not need to invoke KMAC twice. > > > In SP800-56Cr1 sec 8.3, KMAC is not included in a 2-step KDF as it is > waiting SP800-108 update.  But in my research I see KMAC doing exactly > what it takes the two HMAC steps to accomplish.  Team Keccak has > confirmed this revaluation.  NIST has hedged its position, as one > would expect, but they have not said no (again F2F discussions in Dec > '19). > > > Further you should point out that HMAC needs 2 hash operations to > KMAC's single sponge invocation.  This is an important performance > consideration in constrained devices.  Even if SHA-256 is marginally > faster than KMAC-128 (same strength), it is not twice as good. > > On top of that KMAC as a KDF replaces two or more HMACs (depending on > how many key bits needed).  Again a performance gain. > > I would be happy to work with the draft authors on changes in KMAC usage. > > Also NIST is stating that the LWC will conclude by end of 2021. It > behoves Lake to look hard at the LWC finalists that do hashing. This > could be saved for a separate draft, depending on expected completion > and last call of lake-edhoc. > > thank you for consideration. >