From nobody Wed Apr 1 07:38:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E846F3A1061 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6kbL-55lLX1r for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 07:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B66B83A1036 for ; 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boundary="=_MailMate_B78934E0-7445-4B3E-B868-5A34E729FDF4_=" Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[595, 2500], "plain":[200, 1081], "uuid":"A0BA8CB2-E668-4EE8-8515-F7A3F8F160E3"}] X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrtddvgdejjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufffokfgjfhggtgesrgdtmherredtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurdehjegnpdhinhgvthepvdduiedrieeirddutddvrdekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhm Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 14:38:41 -0000 --=_MailMate_B78934E0-7445-4B3E-B868-5A34E729FDF4_= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks, Stephan, (and thanks, Ross, for unpacking it :^) ). Is there a non-paywall version of the document for people to review? Thanks, Leslie. On 31 Mar 2020, at 21:26, Stephan Wenger wrote: > Folks, > Incoming liaison from MPEG for your review and action. > Stephan > > > From: Mayumi Koike > Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 18:18 > To: Stephan Wenger > Cc: "Ali C. Begen" , Youngkwon Lim > , Leonardo Chiariglione > > Subject: Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N > 18620) > > Dear Dr. Stephan Wenger, > > In accordance with Recommendations at the 129th SC 29/WG 11 Meeting, > 2020-01-13/17, Brussels, Belgium, I am pleased to send attached > liaison statements to IETF MOPS WG. Please know that the meetings > shown in the liaison statement became virtual due to the world-wide > COVID-19 situation. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Best Regards, > Mayumi Koike > Secretary, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29 > > ----- > Mayumi Koike (Ms.) > Manager, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29 > IPSJ/ITSCJ (Espalier Inc.) > 1-8-25-204, Fukaehonmachi, Higashinada, > Kobe, Hyogo 658-0021 Japan > Tel: +81-78-855-8425 Mobile: +81-80-3525-5930 > Mail: koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_B78934E0-7445-4B3E-B868-5A34E729FDF4_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Stephan, (and thanks, Ross, for unpacking it :^) = ).

Is there a non-paywall version of the document for people= to review?

Thanks,
Leslie.

On 31 Mar 2020, at 21:26, Stephan Wenger wrote:

Folks,

Incoming liaison from MPEG for your review and ac= tion.

Stephan

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

F= rom: Mayumi Koike= <koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 18:18
To: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
Cc: "Ali C. Begen" <ali.begen@ozyegin.edu.tr>, Youngkwon Lim= <young.l@samsung.com>, Leonardo Chiariglione <leonardo@chiarigl= ione.org>
Subject: Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29= N 18620)

=C2=A0

Dear Dr. Stephan Wenger,

In accordance with Recommendations at the 129th SC 29/WG 11 Meeting, 2020= -01-13/17, Brussels, Belgium, I am pleased to send attached liaison state= ments to IETF MOPS WG. Please know that the meetings shown in the liaison= statement became virtual due to the world-wide COVID-19 situation.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Best Regards,
Mayumi Koike
Secretary, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29


-----
Mayumi Koike (Ms.)
Manager, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29
IPSJ/ITSCJ (Espalier Inc.)
1-8-25-204, Fukaehonmachi, Higashinada,
Kobe, Hyogo 658-0021 Japan
Tel: +81-78-855-8425 Mobile: +81-80-3525-5930
Mail: koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp




--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

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X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4SCdt9utiEc8 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DF553A1A54 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:32:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 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8F5BE7F3CE; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:32:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=N L0hHSZuEJpfEhWk/bTl538g8ok=; b=mL5jp00VPgx/JqX6gl4eu9E25dd46ZDSj XEKpMC/WXspjcz4DJjrbVbekZ6gELqlonxmy4yciO8D6IH2GvadiNUq8SSVyjZKC jSvKPCj4m2HqEtBP8NhXwbrNV6bX8+H56xtMrgDBqonyo385uQMiE1ImKNEgFw+f CABjCx4yCs= Received: from [192.168.1.57] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ldaigle@thinkingcat.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a32.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40A4E7F150; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:32:11 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a32 From: "Leslie Daigle" To: "Stephan Wenger" Cc: mops@ietf.org Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 17:32:00 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: <956115A3-5D7E-4973-9B1A-99A18C30BAC4@thinkingcat.com> In-Reply-To: <324486E8-3F71-4AB7-B468-34EE875E9403@stewe.org> References: <87B6075D-1D70-411C-A408-36763C530523@stewe.org> <6FF74000-A7EB-48CC-A424-CC9FEFC08A1D@thinkingcat.com> <324486E8-3F71-4AB7-B468-34EE875E9403@stewe.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_69D4B916-F69C-4E38-80F3-E48E04CA000D_=" Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[726, 5468], "plain":[335, 1895], "uuid":"5C1D9541-BC8E-4D4E-87AA-43D56BC02339"}] X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrtdeggdduhedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufffoffkjghfgggtgfesrgekmherredtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurdehjegnpdhinhgvthepvdduiedrieeirddutddvrdekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhm Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:32:18 -0000 --=_MailMate_69D4B916-F69C-4E38-80F3-E48E04CA000D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan, Thanks. Some clarity about how/when to best handle this would be=20 appreciated. We can still tune the agenda for the virtual interim on=20 the 15th. It sounds like it might be useful to have a small agenda item=20 just to point people to something that is forthcoming? Leslie. On 1 Apr 2020, at 10:54, Stephan Wenger wrote: > It=E2=80=99s not available yet=E2=80=A6 not even behind the pay/passwor= d wall. > S. > > From: Leslie Daigle > Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 07:38 > To: Stephan Wenger > Cc: "mops@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Mops] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG=20 > (SC 29 N 18620) > > > Thanks, Stephan, (and thanks, Ross, for unpacking it :^) ). > > Is there a non-paywall version of the document for people to review? > > Thanks, > Leslie. > > On 31 Mar 2020, at 21:26, Stephan Wenger wrote: > > Folks, > > Incoming liaison from MPEG for your review and action. > > Stephan > > > > > > From: Mayumi Koike > Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 18:18 > To: Stephan Wenger > Cc: "Ali C. Begen" , Youngkwon Lim=20 > , Leonardo Chiariglione=20 > > Subject: Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N=20 > 18620) > > > > Dear Dr. Stephan Wenger, > > In accordance with Recommendations at the 129th SC 29/WG 11 Meeting,=20 > 2020-01-13/17, Brussels, Belgium, I am pleased to send attached=20 > liaison statements to IETF MOPS WG. Please know that the meetings=20 > shown in the liaison statement became virtual due to the world-wide=20 > COVID-19 situation. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Best Regards, > Mayumi Koike > Secretary, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29 > > ----- > Mayumi Koike (Ms.) > Manager, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29 > IPSJ/ITSCJ (Espalier Inc.) > 1-8-25-204, Fukaehonmachi, Higashinada, > Kobe, Hyogo 658-0021 Japan > Tel: +81-78-855-8425 Mobile: +81-80-3525-5930 > Mail: koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp > > > > > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > > -- > > ________________________________ > > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises > > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_69D4B916-F69C-4E38-80F3-E48E04CA000D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stephan,

Thanks. Some clarity about how/when to best handle this = would be appreciated. We can still tune the agenda for the virtual inter= im on the 15th. It sounds like it might be useful to have a small agenda= item just to point people to something that is forthcoming?

Leslie.

On 1 Apr 2020, at 10:54, Stephan Wenger wrote:

It=E2=80=99s not available yet=E2=80=A6 not even = behind the pay/password wall.

S.

=C2=A0

F= rom: Leslie Daigl= e <ldaigle@thinkingcat.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 07:38
To: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
Cc: "mops@ietf.org" <mops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Mops] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOP= S WG (SC 29 N 18620)

=C2=A0

Thanks, Stephan, (and t= hanks, Ross, for unpacking it :^) ).

Is there a non-paywall = version of the document for people to review?

Thanks,
Leslie.

On 31 Mar 2020, at 21:2= 6, Stephan Wenger wrote:

=

Folks, =

Incoming liaison from MPEG for your review and action.

Stephan

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Mayumi Koike <= koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 18:18
To: Stephan Wenger <stewe@stewe.org>
Cc: "Ali C. Begen" <ali.begen@ozyegin.edu.tr>, Youngkwon Lim= <young.l@samsung.com>, Leonardo Chiariglione <leonardo@chiarigl= ione.org>
Subject: Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29= N 18620)

=C2=A0

Dear Dr. Stephan Wenger,

In accordance with Recommendations at the 129th SC 29/WG 11 Meeting, 2020= -01-13/17, Brussels, Belgium, I am pleased to send attached liaison state= ments to IETF MOPS WG. Please know that the meetings shown in the liaison= statement became virtual due to the world-wide COVID-19 situation.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Best Regards,
Mayumi Koike
Secretary, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29


-----
Mayumi Koike (Ms.)
Manager, ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 29
IPSJ/ITSCJ (Espalier Inc.)
1-8-25-204, Fukaehonmachi, Higashinada,
Kobe, Hyogo 658-0021 Japan
Tel: +81-78-855-8425 Mobile: +81-80-3525-5930
Mail: koike@itscj.ipsj.or.jp



=

--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
<= /p>

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle= @thinkingcat.com

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

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xiSotyfhHnzsJK+452jjVYuUtbYheTD8tIPgeAiwm80xWpsYmUSm6+3x90NeM= Received: from [192.168.1.57] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ldaigle@thinkingcat.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a43.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3854B8D48D; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:56:27 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a43 From: "Leslie Daigle" To: mops@ietf.org Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 17:56:11 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: <40F03D57-1194-46AB-A424-6D0E76AF2EF4@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_MailMate_2E566F58-7C26-46FC-98BD-38D0002CE739_=" X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudejgdduieehucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffokfggtgfgsehmkehmreertdejnecuhfhrohhmpedfnfgvshhlihgvucffrghighhlvgdfuceolhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepvdduiedrieeirddutddvrdekfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopegludelvddrudeikedruddrheejngdpihhnvghtpedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpedfnfgvshhlihgvucffrghighhlvgdfuceolhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomheplhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomhdpnhhrtghpthhtoheplhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Reminder: MOPS virtual interim in one week, on April 15, 2020 X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:56:34 -0000 --=_MailMate_2E566F58-7C26-46FC-98BD-38D0002CE739_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_E74B35D4-8BF0-4217-9D2C-C41332C537BD_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --=_MailMate_E74B35D4-8BF0-4217-9D2C-C41332C537BD_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As a reminder, we have a virtual interim meeting coming up in a week. I=E2=80=99ve attached the .ics file from the data tracker, which includes= =20 pointers to the meeting page and materials. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01/session/mops I will post again when the webex details are available for the meeting. The ever-so-slightly revised agenda is: Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming=20 media Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT =E2=80=94 see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on=20 MOPS mailing list Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for=20 interdomain multicast AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N=20 18620) Thanks, Leslie. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_E74B35D4-8BF0-4217-9D2C-C41332C537BD_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

As a reminder, we have a virtual interim meeting coming u= p in a week.

I=E2=80=99ve attached the .ics file from the data tracker= , which includes pointers to the meeting page and materials.

https://datatracker.iet= f.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01/session/mops

I will post again when the webex details are available fo= r the meeting.

The ever-so-slightly revised agenda is:

Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG

April 2020 Virtual Interim
Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC

Agenda

Intro

Agenda Bashing
[5min] chair(s)

Review of concrete work items:

[15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations = for streaming media
Jake Holland
draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons

Updates from elsewhere

Updates from other work
[15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG
[5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE
[15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT =E2=80=94 see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-= mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS
mailing list

Operational Issues Observed
[15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for inter= domain
multicast

AOB
[10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 1862= 0)

Thanks,
Leslie.

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

--=_MailMate_E74B35D4-8BF0-4217-9D2C-C41332C537BD_=-- --=_MailMate_2E566F58-7C26-46FC-98BD-38D0002CE739_= Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mops - Media OPerationS.ics" Content-Type: text/calendar Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BEGIN:VCALENDAR=0D VERSION:2.0=0D PRODID:-//Apple Inc.//Mac OS X 10.14.6//EN=0D CALSCALE:GREGORIAN=0D BEGIN:VTIMEZONE=0D TZID:America/New_York=0D BEGIN:DAYLIGHT=0D TZOFFSETFROM:-0500=0D RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;BYMONTH=3D3;BYDAY=3D2SU=0D DTSTART:20070311T020000=0D TZNAME:EDT=0D TZOFFSETTO:-0400=0D END:DAYLIGHT=0D BEGIN:STANDARD=0D TZOFFSETFROM:-0400=0D RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;BYMONTH=3D11;BYDAY=3D1SU=0D DTSTART:20071104T020000=0D TZNAME:EST=0D TZOFFSETTO:-0500=0D END:STANDARD=0D END:VTIMEZONE=0D BEGIN:VEVENT=0D TRANSP:OPAQUE=0D DTEND;TZID=3DAmerica/New_York:20200415T173000=0D UID:ietf-interim-2020-mops-01-12758-mops=0D DTSTAMP:20200324T134907Z=0D LOCATION:None=0D DESCRIPTION:\n\nAgenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-202=0D= 0-mops-01/materials/agenda-interim-2020-mops-01-mops-01\n=0D URL;VALUE=3DURI:https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01= /=0D materials/agenda-interim-2020-mops-01-mops-01=0D STATUS:CONFIRMED=0D SEQUENCE:0=0D CLASS:PUBLIC=0D SUMMARY:mops - Media OPerationS=0D LAST-MODIFIED:20200408T214948Z=0D DTSTART;TZID=3DAmerica/New_York:20200415T160000=0D CREATED:20200408T213710Z=0D X-APPLE-TRAVEL-ADVISORY-BEHAVIOR:AUTOMATIC=0D END:VEVENT=0D END:VCALENDAR=0D --=_MailMate_2E566F58-7C26-46FC-98BD-38D0002CE739_=-- From nobody Mon Apr 13 08:52:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E9F93A17F1 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:52:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=krose.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vJK6szvvK-iX for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com (mail-yb1-xb36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C49D3A1807 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id h205so5472214ybg.6 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3Gk4hO8HB+I/QbyYmok0a7kw+dyDTyV+XHz0cbvlGno=; b=gTg7yhqGv8viXQwsHJDiv9iXPks6EmW0vuutNU0SVgHckUaSqY2R2Cp33jTuNXec49 rG2AFwdmrB785ZhgeVDb0LUYHJOdpdFL7GUnyFGgTvak2v8LUpHlgG7+Kj6G9wr4xHhz JWOd+tFeCBs0EhaYd0jkUxAz/EJENlJfc5EFc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3Gk4hO8HB+I/QbyYmok0a7kw+dyDTyV+XHz0cbvlGno=; b=pQzH10P5mcfi3xo4FtNupeICGOCr5uEelSqlxaumYn9s3pPL4bLGPxhW9SQBAV1W4F Xm4O4M21dGVvQHq6rOBN3FMmbQxgBiJmQF6SpwV9eA4X/67XmeNIO9P080AcDDOZrG4t AqExAiWPifchGA1RyYgKqAZiAzO58L0vkrSbApulY0/tPHP7ZOsUgfSUqV4FhirqjK+G EXLAGApS964WpDof4ddCwbs7HQ3S+K8Y3iPbU0TaiOkGxbqxypXwJBw1KiOjDPG6GI5A arXnXeNrmLqWXItiLuApFioEreLuR4jTDjmNfFTtU4ncLKTBrUEbbQFKnMB8Ws1Grvhj WFTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZp9IgyPJ5Sv74xHHecaqIjV9i38Pgfvt498NztCA/BGQ3pWqmr YbwLyqojDzpLDZhg6fZswBy+OoCZpocSPf566HcvwW+I8l8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJa103npVYk3zUTIZrE+bo7v3DyyiHQlDY+dxZZefQ+DjVriRR61uXjJJvE0PWnchm+pVLXKt1YtMPQ2QUHiII= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ba03:: with SMTP id t3mr28163489ybg.438.1586793142920; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 08:52:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <40F03D57-1194-46AB-A424-6D0E76AF2EF4@thinkingcat.com> In-Reply-To: <40F03D57-1194-46AB-A424-6D0E76AF2EF4@thinkingcat.com> From: Kyle Rose Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:52:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: mops@ietf.org Cc: Leslie Daigle Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009de71905a32e1127" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] Reminder: MOPS virtual interim in one week, on April 15, 2020 X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:52:27 -0000 --0000000000009de71905a32e1127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reminder that we have our virtual interim this Wednesday (20:00 UTC). We'll need a Jabber scribe and a minute taker. Any volunteers? Thanks, Kyle On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:56 PM Leslie Daigle wrote: > Hi, > > As a reminder, we have a virtual interim meeting coming up in a week. > > I=E2=80=99ve attached the .ics file from the data tracker, which includes= pointers > to the meeting page and materials. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01/session/mops > > I will post again when the webex details are available for the meeting. > > The ever-so-slightly revised agenda is: > > Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG > > April 2020 Virtual Interim > Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC > > Agenda > > Intro > > Agenda Bashing > [5min] chair(s) > > Review of concrete work items: > > [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming > media > Jake Holland > draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons > > Updates from elsewhere > > Updates from other work > [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG > [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE > [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT =E2=80=94 see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on > MOPS > mailing list > > Operational Issues Observed > [15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for inter= domain > multicast > > AOB > [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620= ) > > Thanks, > Leslie. > > -- > ------------------------------ > > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > --0000000000009de71905a32e1127 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rem= inder that we have our virtual interim this Wednesday (20:00 UTC).

We'll need a Jabber scribe an= d a minute taker. Any volunteers?

Thanks,
Kyle

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:56 PM Leslie Daigle <ldaigle@thinkingcat.com> wr= ote:

Hi,

As a reminder, we have a virtual interim meeting coming up = in a week.

I=E2=80=99ve attached the .ics file from the data tracker, = which includes pointers to the meeting page and materials.

h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-mops-01/session/mops

I will post again when the webex details are available for = the meeting.

The ever-so-slightly revised agenda is:

Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG

April 2020 Virtual Interim
Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC

Agenda

Intro

Agenda Bashing
[5min] chair(s)

Review of concrete work items:

[15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations fo= r streaming media
Jake Holland
draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons

Updates from elsewhere

Updates from other work
[15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG
[5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE
[15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT =E2=80=94 see
https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS
mailing list

Operational Issues Observed
[15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for interdo= main
multicast

AOB
[10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620)=

Thanks,
Leslie.

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com=

--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
--0000000000009de71905a32e1127-- From nobody Tue Apr 14 09:55:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FEB3A0D39 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0W4dVXRPNDBg for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjmda11.webex.com (sjmda11.webex.com [64.68.124.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22C653A0D34 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rva2rmd101.webex.com (sjc02-wxpd-lb03-v140.webex.com [10.252.16.111]) by sjmda11.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535BC3042E1A for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:52:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rva2rmd101.webex.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rva2rmd101.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0B8102289C for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:52:56 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:52:56 +0000 (GMT) From: MOPS Working Group Reply-To: mops-chairs@ietf.org To: mops@ietf.org Message-ID: <749772293.16310801586883176961.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd101.webex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_3262034_16357231.1586883176960" X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal X-WBX-INFO: X-WBX-SID=456680, X-WBX-CID=158517823157579355, X-WBX-TID=4z6upqh7zwrcmyiuau2te7tvlos8tgx4eme0035yszvkc6clopyrma8x, X-WBX-RID=d35db19527134b5881f1048bb4cad3f3, X-WBX-SVC:Meeting Center, X-WBX-TT:Meeting Invitation, Date:Tue Apr 14 16:52:56 GMT 2020 reminder-40.1.1-4 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Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158688336246.9675.11742961672724455020@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:56:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Media OPerationS (mops) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-15 CHANGED X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:56:03 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Media OPerationS (mops) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-15 from 16:00 to 17:30 America/New_York (20:00 to 21:30 UTC). Agenda: Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT — see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for interdomain multicast AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) Information about remote participation: Webex MOPS virtual interim Hosted by MOPS Working Group Wednesday, Apr 15, 2020 1:00 pm | 1 hour 30 minutes | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) Meeting number: 614 737 479 Password: WyMWQPZ6r62 https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md42b2b0e63c839df689b4 From nobody Tue Apr 14 09:57:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietf.org Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCDC3A0EF6; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: mops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158688341670.9675.2304989722274056116@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:56:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Media OPerationS (mops) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-15 CHANGED X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:57:03 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Media OPerationS (mops) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-15 from 16:00 to 17:30 America/New_York (20:00 to 21:30 UTC). Agenda: Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT — see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for interdomain multicast AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) Information about remote participation: Webex MOPS virtual interim Hosted by MOPS Working Group Wednesday, Apr 15, 2020 1:00 pm | 1 hour 30 minutes | (UTC-07:00) Pacific Time (US & Canada) Meeting number: 614 737 479 Password: WyMWQPZ6r62 https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md42b2b0e63c839df689b4 From nobody Tue Apr 14 09:57:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietf.org Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0C03A1000; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: mops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158688346093.30937.11771200524440605474@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:57:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Media OPerationS (mops) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-15 CHANGED X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:57:47 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Media OPerationS (mops) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-15 from 16:00 to 17:30 America/New_York (20:00 to 21:30 UTC). Agenda: Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT — see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for interdomain multicast AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) Information about remote participation: Webex From nobody Tue Apr 14 09:58:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietf.org Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE283A0DCA; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:57:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: mops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158688347466.11353.1272083658003119112@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 09:57:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Media OPerationS (mops) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-04-15 CHANGED X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:57:59 -0000 MEETING DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. SEE LATEST DETAILS BELOW. The Media OPerationS (mops) Working Group will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2020-04-15 from 16:00 to 17:30 America/New_York (20:00 to 21:30 UTC). Agenda: Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Joon Woong Kim SRT — see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sharabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for interdomain multicast AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) Information about remote participation: Webex -- see agenda for details From nobody Wed Apr 15 14:35:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60263A0897 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:35:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=krose.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KuGeviTO9xsb for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EBCC3A0896 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id o70so814539ybg.10 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:35:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fSMBTiMV5lq55cHJJbjEJ8ZF/u9Leb8H+paCl5qmvI8=; b=fvLpjMhnDMFaenIGuSDUloSh6vZw3aK3xdmVU1OF5oVoHkXe4mYPPOZsGY81BU1M7h yRGEt6hiaraIRCgaEh0VOytQk9BsGOPQBQmMnaf4cgLOGmQADUxWasMSOeBdsM3JyKXh FmCUStIMCer4bucvPHClfLyfo6aPfUEJPzbqs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fSMBTiMV5lq55cHJJbjEJ8ZF/u9Leb8H+paCl5qmvI8=; b=mQ5ubk+u+1yTYn1nJ5Q1Z5ETXyKcAdzxkPz9CetTTN/nll4WBrNKfrrqfcGEgU/2Ab HtLlnp3PoRxY1pieKfAVuSW+KejZsIvxvJNXmYnxAGAD/7fjrXyREObW6pxFqiRghXou A+hhns5Z8LnBOwCDYDKdryf35EZWLS7o1MMtldUw9ukOf9OtQ0ufd8UsXC7W2ddwjcbW EzfmyWJWN3MEr4Y/NaIwxozG+2KUMabF3f/f8rmyKD0biuEfWcKG/9Z76+n8YKosGCU7 DFS5Xw+oZAmZfHZBowVCvbB1TgfWbXDpVHcYVLl2Gt0Kb95DdKOPqBnRFRao5I+35KhS Xnbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puaj7atf35wPLjnAOAXRXrp8CIQmXj5aDsOb8hARJNLjSHNVV733 On807R8Qb1/XePImZGoIDytMgZ2pMhJpYrQLrGwt+INznpv4iA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIM7YzDzhnrmcb8XC1F4cPANIdN0UE7SG9w2cIRBDLEMxZDPwP3e9iMYOEKFRTjEsMwV3PXVocCdwBtFIpdIyQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9d8f:: with SMTP id v15mr10435288ybp.49.1586986551423; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 14:35:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Kyle Rose Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:35:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a94d8205a35b19b2" Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Github organization for MOPS X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 21:35:54 -0000 --000000000000a94d8205a35b19b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" As mentioned on the interim call today, here is the URL for the new organization we created for Github-driven collaboration on adopted documents: https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops Kyle --000000000000a94d8205a35b19b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As = mentioned on the interim call today, here is the URL for the new organizati= on we created for Github-driven collaboration on adopted documents:


Kyle
--000000000000a94d8205a35b19b2-- From nobody Wed Apr 15 15:01:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2A23A094E for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:00:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZoXSOWl9dqv9 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:00:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bird.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E494F3A094D for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:00:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29FA7002F8; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:00:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a29.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-9-16.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.9.16]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2C989701326; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:00:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a29.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.6); Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:00:33 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Irritate-Tasty: 346995a931ce0475_1586988033792_558933336 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1586988033792:1130738582 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1586988033791 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a29.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a29.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07C782B0C; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:00:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=O453KEi4B0+JDX Cg6B1rRPSXVrM=; b=oOsXtCo5012BelsMUojp3GzzCpBZ7kgSapQ/PP51/OVQcs btDYjh5kRkumnMsoDQLI44EfV00DVJlB2kRD5J+3SaOHmEvJOqcpz6kQx3eLTWci iVzBBKIQ/3K+qGE7igSFrFW4rTRxHDuC2IcE5PfeazwsemwCmVEiYuQnWcMko= Received: from [192.168.1.57] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ldaigle@thinkingcat.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a29.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D7E482B07; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:00:31 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a29 From: "Leslie Daigle" To: mops@ietf.org Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:00:24 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: <46FD34CB-C0C0-4319-B286-372A5C7F38DE@thinkingcat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_7751C966-FF8C-460F-BDDF-ED5F5205E24A_=" X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrfeeggddtgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffoffkgggtgfesrgekmherredtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurdehjegnpdhinhgvthepvdduiedrieeirddutddvrdekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhm Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Virtual Interim Wrap up X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:00:42 -0000 --=_MailMate_7751C966-FF8C-460F-BDDF-ED5F5205E24A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, and because I neglected it at the end of the actual call =E2=80=94= a=20 huge THANKS to our note-taker today, Olufemi Komolafe. And, thanks to everyone who came out to participate, and our presenters. Etherpad notes are here: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-mops-01 We=E2=80=99ll be wrapping up the official minutes/bluesheets, etc, in the= =20 coming days. Leslie. --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_7751C966-FF8C-460F-BDDF-ED5F5205E24A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First, and because I neglected it at the end of the actua= l call =E2=80=94 a huge THANKS to our note-taker today, Olufemi Komolafe.=

And, thanks to everyone who came out to participate, and = our presenters.

Etherpad notes are here:

https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-= ietf-interim-2020-mops-01

We=E2=80=99ll be wrapping up the official minutes/blueshe= ets, etc, in the coming days.

Leslie.

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

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Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===============8157262199840639163==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Repository Activity Summary Bot To: mops@ietf.org Message-Id: <20200419073229.8FF12328005D@mailuser.nyi.internal> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:32:29 -0400 (EDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Weekly github digest (MOPS Activity Summary) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 07:38:20 -0000 --===============8157262199840639163== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" Events without label "editorial" Issues ------ * ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC2) 1 issues created: - Git repo reference (by ldaigle) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /19=20 2 issues received 2 new comments: - #4 E2E encryption (1 by agouaillard-cosmo) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /4=20 - #3 Low-latency vs. others (1 by agouaillard-cosmo) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /3=20 Pull requests ------------- * ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+1/-1/=F0=9F=92=AC0) 1 pull requests submitted: - added template, moved contributor section to intro and renamed it (by G= rumpyOldTroll) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/pull/2= 0=20 1 pull requests merged: - added template, moved contributor section to intro and renamed it https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/pull/2= 0=20 Repositories tracked by this digest: ----------------------------------- * https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons --===============8157262199840639163== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weekly github digest (MOPS Activity Summary)

Sunday April 19, 2020

Events without label "editorial"

Issues

ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC2)

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2 issues received 2 new comments:

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ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+1/-1/=F0=9F=92=AC0)

1 pull requests submitted:

1 pull requests merged:

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Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:17:44 -0400 Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.53]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com with ESMTP id 30fvvuyw66-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:17:43 -0400 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB5.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.105) by usma1ex-dag1mb2.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:17:35 -0400 Received: from usma1ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.65) by usma1ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:17:35 -0400 Received: from usma1ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.65]) by usma1ex-dag1mb6.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.65]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.006; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:17:35 -0400 From: "Holland, Jake" To: MBONED WG , "mops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Multicast Video Spec Thread-Index: AQHWGBGDV8ROZ9L/A0ymiJ4Bd7farw== Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:17:34 +0000 Message-ID: <5C294848-824F-4EBC-B690-398754CC6B31@akamai.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.36.20041300 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.80.233] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-04-21_08:2020-04-21, 2020-04-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=609 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004210144 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-04-21_08:2020-04-21, 2020-04-21 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=609 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004210144 Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] DVB: New Multicast Video Spec X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:17:49 -0000 SGkgbW9wcyBhbmQgbWJvbmVkIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cywNCg0KSSB3YW50ZWQgdG8gbGV0IHlvdSBh bGwga25vdyBhYm91dCBhIG5ldyBzcGVjIHRoYXQgaGFzIHJlY2VudGx5IGNvbWUgdG8gbXkNCmF0 dGVudGlvbiBmcm9tIHRoZSBEVkIgU0RPLCBkZXRhaWxpbmcgYSBuZXcgc3RhbmRhcmQgYXBwcm9h Y2ggdG8gZGVsaXZlcmluZw0KdmlkZW8gb3ZlciBtdWx0aWNhc3QsIHZpYSByZWxpYWJsZSBkZWxp dmVyeSBvZiB2aWRlbyBzZWdtZW50cyB0aGF0DQppbnRlcm9wZXJhdGUgd2l0aCBEQVNIIHBsYXll cnM6DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZHZiLm9yZy93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAyMC8wMy9BMTc2X0Fk YXB0aXZlLU1lZGlhLVN0cmVhbWluZy1vdmVyLUlQLU11bHRpY2FzdF9NYXItMjAyMC5wZGYNCg0K U29tZXRoaW5nIHRvIGJlIGF3YXJlIG9mLCBhbmQgaG9wZWZ1bGx5IGhlbHBmdWwgdG8gc29tZSBv ZiB1cy4NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KSmFrZQ0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Apr 21 19:32:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8DA3A0B3A for ; 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Tue, 21 Apr 2020 19:32:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:31:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000033b4ab05a3d7f06a" Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 02:32:10 -0000 --00000000000033b4ab05a3d7f06a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear MOPS, We have an issue in https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ that proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I understood the limits of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as possible topics. This is, I think, the kind of conversation that we should be having on the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a conversation on an issue in Github ought to be"). Could people take a look at https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, and let the working group know your thoughts? Do The Right Thing, of course. Best, Spencer --00000000000033b4ab05a3d7f06a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear MOPS,

We have an issue in=20 https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/=C2= =A0 that proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-stre= aming-opcons, and discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I under= stood the limits of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP= , RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs"= ;, STADIA, and SRT as possible topics.=C2=A0

This = is, I think, the kind of conversation=C2=A0that we should be having on the = working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a conversatio= n on an issue in Github ought to be").=C2=A0

Could people take = a look at https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-stream= ing-opcons/issues/3, and let the working group know your thoughts?
<= /div>

Do The Right Thing, of course.

Best,

Spencer
--00000000000033b4ab05a3d7f06a-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 05:43:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B75C23A0B59 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:43:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=krose.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XMJSaATEq0SY for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-xa31.google.com (mail-vk1-xa31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C444A3A0A89 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-xa31.google.com with SMTP id j1so290757vkc.2 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:43:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+yBmrPa+Rqwfa7mo6ZOSgvdRP2J47ZAvy865CZrp0kk=; b=pZePmVIOkzCAQs4Aioc0zs5jK88HPWwNgulVYPntRURCkriPujJqrj82Vh7KT9AfsV aDlaG2GG8Emqmrc6NJtP/ajdi1yra4RI/arUDHdds/AYNa51ejKGDgpcqNaS2FfBROfZ p1qNrQMqdC+7MrmjVuq+Hh09/fP9hdhdAuPKo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+yBmrPa+Rqwfa7mo6ZOSgvdRP2J47ZAvy865CZrp0kk=; b=kkySod1R5sQhHYQFyvLJFWXuWFTA2DIwnDMkwUBigN5w3XMewy+gFk3pZ1UAcY4P39 wVPndZRIBn6uKHfIIj/zZMsInsTA1F4p6LJlDsf4fNnC3nUMReeOjpkDS09R/NlP7foe 8l50KXoVA4Gz8VVz8OjT2Ri/uk1RXsz9kIFDLF7pZo0JexZPVtOEBK+o6UzkVmPIN1h1 4jrL1z9Nzzkukp7wYIqpG29oWNpkWyxMbve1Vn5/0VAMv94KGEL3W73w4bksV+lW8BOb ZjpUSomsa+KZl/7xHnr3y+pOcJlswC0zSckLTASyIcWpaZYE+d67qYlOZfvMBC8ehuLu hcTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubrQmJp82gKN1lD5hWD3+pLX8JnC2F+vpK6DVtmInE/9yArQeG3 cSZEXweMYXSAxLEOIzHIdiq3BrwU9lyANIvNJ3K7ig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ96UYSK2U0K56SYPrb+5LBApHnW4rIFx5N92lGlR0A1i0uT75JoSf3jEwkBtgW6igB5Uv5d/n7mRLwnTPifuM= X-Received: by 2002:ac5:cb1a:: with SMTP id r26mr5843908vkl.31.1587559403533; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:43:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Rose Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:43:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004ecca905a3e07a59" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:43:27 -0000 --0000000000004ecca905a3e07a59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF < spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear MOPS, > > We have an issue in > https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ that > proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and > discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I understood the limits > of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and > globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as > possible topics. > > This is, I think, the kind of conversation that we should be having on the > working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a conversation on > an issue in Github ought to be"). > > Could people take a look at > https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, > and let the working group know your thoughts? > I've added a comment asking people to take further discussion of that issue to the mailing list prior to merging any related changes. >From my reading of the charter, there's nothing disqualifying MOPS from addressing realtime media delivery issues, so long as we: * Restrict our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with the network and not move higher in the technology stack; and * Focus on development of informational documents related to issues that affect operations for use by other working groups and SDOs, and not get into the business of developing protocols ourselves. Clearly, realtime use cases (such as for interactive applications such as Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose requirements on networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS as having been chartered for the express purpose of sussing out such requirements by leveraging the expertise and experience of a broad range of SMEs who would otherwise not have had a natural forum in the IETF for such collaboration. Kyle --0000000000004ecca905a3e07a59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com= > wrote:
Dear MOPS,

We have an issue in=20 https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-stream= ing-opcons/=C2=A0 that proposes a "low-latency" section in dr= aft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and discussion on that PR is starting to po= ke at what I understood the limits of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks= notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and globally all kinds of RTP-based st= reaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as possible topics.=C2=A0
This is, I think, the kind of conversation=C2=A0that we should= be having on the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger = than a conversation on an issue in Github ought to be").=C2=A0

= Could people take a look at https://github.com= /ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, and let the wo= rking group know your thoughts?

=
<chair hat=3Don&g= t;
I've add= ed a comment asking people to take further discussion of that issue to the = mailing list prior to merging any related changes.
</chair>

From my reading of the charter, there's nothi= ng disqualifying MOPS from addressing realtime media delivery issues, so lo= ng as we:

<= /div>
=C2=A0* Restric= t our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with the network = and not move higher in the technology stack; and
=C2=A0* Focus on development of informati= onal documents related to issues that affect operations for use by other wo= rking groups and SDOs, and not get into the business of developing protocol= s ourselves.

Clearly, realtime=C2=A0use cases (such as for interactive applications such= as Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose requirements on <= /span>networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS as having been chartered for the= express purpose of sussing out such requirements by leveraging the experti= se and experience of a broad range of SMEs who would otherwise not have had= a natural forum in the IETF for such collaboration.

Kyle
--0000000000004ecca905a3e07a59-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 05:52:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6D53A0B86 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=krose.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oEmlGKykeZn9 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-xa36.google.com (mail-vk1-xa36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE0093A0B80 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-xa36.google.com with SMTP id f7so587122vkl.6 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:52:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PAMnetKw7tUIwK9GBE8F5S3Rhoctg7K42eKn28aR4ec=; b=hvE6x5pv51icYo4dv8WbWe7DC8Rmjo7NXVlYITVLhSedVEZ7RGE2JeP0BisEZDmEdv sSKDC757pIRl0QNAgTB+YP2PLYZBAwD0S2J/Qwd+F0AAeTdDe16/Lqmk1SEd7MVOWvRt iNkAVM2C2nmzxDrW8aSw5rD6q0HOxl8YVVroU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PAMnetKw7tUIwK9GBE8F5S3Rhoctg7K42eKn28aR4ec=; b=gnh8u6nJHXGEwnCy4LKpFlRjI+3H4vGAgwArB5WD6iFSkkiRV1usiVB/PTIB0FqLdt DrDynTPXzA0SyVWMzE2ZX9rvX92PYdddYtvoNvvDKfHhsiTlg1bY6YASjFmds0UVTtLT IKR07QqCoad5oeuT0zRYB32RN8MKT5aAwUTnBS4TiqU3XsSIbXDYysMO7NXpesiNq1LD /1KEDRk0xl/YN6nDmFW+pZFmzTq2EhLR2FchtCjBzcF44EJ1xHPpNDxmshx4pxriI2Ay HgsFl4zARYr1ZUPzQE1MQXesxqwVoJTVhLfRClA+KNQLgUxCGxPWuzPHxidnv+zuEZjK zLsg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuadYCehScgXzTpUE5nJzXTaG96E4tlRtf0C9HJ7X0ElFRAWoG7Y r3gc432F6CloGwAyLQm1pNubvWnoT/PgJalYm1ZemausvFppAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypILzbuMXxcaQ/Wij50+PQozs5zRpkkQKu4NAyEx/5BGc2dqCkCqd5OiwYG//37StuWDNR+xXBks8gsbjrG4tJs= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:26d1:: with SMTP id m200mr8884976vkm.45.1587559946196; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 05:52:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Kyle Rose Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:52:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a7313205a3e09a4e" Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:52:35 -0000 --000000000000a7313205a3e09a4e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've pasted the draft minutes from our Ides of April interim below. Thanks again to Olufemi Komolafe for volunteering! Please review and provide clarifications and/or corrections to the chairs. Otherwise, we'll be posting the minutes to the data tracker in a week at which point it will be part of your Permanent Record. Kyle Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG April 2020 Virtual Interim Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC Webex details below Agenda Intro Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) Review of concrete work items: [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming medi= a Jake Holland draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Github - https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons Accepting comments via GitHub issues Presented update on draft Discussion on =E2=80=9CSoliciting Contributions - Proposed Template=E2=80= =9D + have in current draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?) Matt Stock: Like template and sees potential Jake Holland: Appreciates feedback. Potential to write diffrent BCPs, targeted at diffrent audience Spencer Dawkins: Aim is for draft to not only call out potential bad things but rather try to be actionable, hence why mitigations are solicited Glenn Deen: +1 on collecting mitigations and sees potential in this highlighting potential areas of interest/work. Mitigations are only a first step, and where there are really egregious problems the mitigation may be a temporary approach and the issue may trigger additional work relevant to the IETF. Matt Stock: Mitigations may not be black/white but rather may involve tradeoffs which should be called out to inform decision-making Leslie Daigle: Maybe collect the issues as a starting point Spencer Dawkins: Thanks to both Glenn and Matt for these excellent suggestions Updates from elsewhere Updates from other work [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video traffic seeing by carriers Discussed ongoing and potential work of interest in SVA and potential new working groups Glenn Deen: Recent work in SVA working group on media use cases for multicast streaming that may be of interest Jake Holland: Work looks interesting. What does engagement with SVA look like? SVA members commenting on IETF mailing list? Interested to hear more about the multicast work Sanjay Mishra: Perhaps bring back updates/proble statements etc from SVA to IETF, IETF can work on these items and perhaps SVA consumes the output Spencer Dawkins: Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic Glenn Deen: Address potential issue regarding IPR raised by Jake Holland. There should be no issues - SVA docs are published on the web for all to read and IP issues shouldn't enter into MOPS working with SVA use csses. If still concerned, please come talk to glenn.deen@nbcuni.com - I'm on the SVA board. [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE [15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT =E2=80=94 see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list Overview of potential benefits SRT Jake Holland: Questions about protocol and operational use. Suitable for contribution/distribution or livestreaming to end-users? Max Sharabayko: SRT is well-suited for media Marc Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means not SRT is not direct What other protocols were considered and what was deficient about them? Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal was to transmit live stream over public internet. Came to problem with clean slate and started with UDP and added enhancements to make it more suited for real-time traffic. Kyle Rose: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have been a better option at the start, a few years ago. Glenn Deen: Comcast use SRT significantly and so keen for this work to succeed. What are the current priorities for RTP? Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing data of multiple links, congestion control Glenn Denn: Congestion control of interest - as playing nicely with the network is in everyone's best interest Leslie Daigle: Potential interest in this WG in this protocol. Detailed protocol machinery discussions will be done in other WGs but MOPS intereste= d Spencer Dawkins: An Independent Stream draft on SRT as it exists today will be of great value to MOPS, because we would have a good reference for the protocol as we start to make recommendations on use of SRT for streaming operators. That was the recommendation for a first step from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, although the current IESG might change that recommendation. Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in other WGs regarding SRT, especially concerns regarding security - When presented at IETF dispatch, concerned were expressed by long time IETF contributors like Eric Rescorla, Colin Perkins, Martin Thompson discussion here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzuw/ - The question was just about the status of those discussions as, given the position of the people asking with respect to security, media transport, QUIC, SRTP, at IETF, those questions will come back at one point. - One of the question raised on the Dispatch thread was also, why at mops and not in ART, since it looks more in scope for the later. - Another question was regarding security definition (eric/martin) - another question, more generic, is why a new protocol when it looks like webrtc / QUIC are a good match to the announced goal (nat traversal, TLS 1.3, CC, BWE, ...) =3D> discussion on dispatch would have concluded by a request for a documen= t, and thus is pending this document availability. Operational Issues Observed [15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for interdo= main multicast Discussed some of the challenges/opportunities with interdomain multicast Outlined goals for 2020 & eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so please reach out if interested Leslie Daigle: Interesting overview AOB [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620) Spencer Dawkins: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison manager for SC 29/WG 11, on Monday; he had no further updates beyond what was in the original liaison statement they sent to IETF. Leslie Daigle: Git repo set up for WG Kyle Rose: Repo will be used when documents are adopted. Not mandatory but convenient for collaboration. Will send URL on list shortly --000000000000a7313205a3e09a4e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I&#= 39;ve pasted the draft minutes from our Ides of April interim below. Thanks= again to Olufemi Komolafe for volunteering! Please review and provide clar= ifications and/or corrections to the chairs. Otherwise, we'll be postin= g the minutes to the data tracker in a week at which point it will be part = of your Permanent Record.

Kyle





Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG

April 2020 Virtual Interi= m
Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC

Webex details below=

Agenda

Intro

Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s)

Re= view of concrete work items:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
[15min] Draft of edge ne= twork operational considerations for streaming media
Jake Holland
dra= ft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons
Github - https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops= /draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons
Accepting comments via GitHub issu= es
Presented update on draft
Discussion on =E2=80=9CSoliciting Contr= ibutions - Proposed Template=E2=80=9D
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ have in curr= ent draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?)
Matt Stock: Like template = and sees potential
Jake Holland: Appreciates feedback.=C2=A0 Potential t= o write diffrent BCPs, targeted at diffrent audience
Spencer Dawkins: Ai= m is for draft to not only call out potential bad things but rather try to = be actionable, hence why mitigations are solicited
Glenn Deen: +1 on col= lecting mitigations and sees potential in this highlighting potential areas= of interest/work. Mitigations are only a first step, and where there are r= eally egregious problems the mitigation may be a temporary approach and the= issue may trigger additional work relevant to the IETF. =C2=A0
Matt Sto= ck: Mitigations may not be black/white but rather may involve tradeoffs whi= ch should be called out to inform decision-making
Leslie Daigle: Maybe c= ollect the issues as a starting point
Spencer Dawkins: Thanks to both Gl= enn and Matt for these excellent suggestions

Updates from elsewhere<= br>
Updates from other work
[15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA= Open Caching WG
Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video t= raffic seeing by carriers
Discussed ongoing and potential work of inter= est in SVA and potential new working groups
Glenn Deen: Recent work in S= VA working group on media use cases for multicast streaming that may be of = interest
Jake Holland: Work looks interesting.=C2=A0 What does engagemen= t with SVA look like?=C2=A0 SVA members commenting on IETF mailing list? In= terested to hear more about the multicast work
Sanjay Mishra: Perhaps br= ing back updates/proble statements etc from SVA to IETF, IETF can work on t= hese items and perhaps SVA consumes the output
Spencer Dawkins: Thanks f= or discussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic
Glenn Deen: Address po= tential issue regarding IPR raised by Jake Holland.=C2=A0 There should be n= o issues - SVA docs are published on the web for all to read and IP issues = shouldn't enter into MOPS working with SVA use csses. If still concerne= d, please come talk to glenn.deen@= nbcuni.com - I'm on the SVA board.



[5min] Glenn Deen= -- anything further re SMPTE


[15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT =E2= =80=94 see
https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS = mailing list
Overview of potential benefits SRT
Jake Holland: Questio= ns about protocol and operational use.=C2=A0 Suitable for contribution/dist= ribution or livestreaming to end-users?
Max Sharabayko: SRT is well-suit= ed for media
Marc Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means not SRT is not directWhat other protocols were considered and what was deficient about them?Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal was to transmit live stream over public = internet. Came to problem with clean slate and started with UDP and added e= nhancements to make it more suited for real-time traffic. =C2=A0
Kyle Ro= se: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have been a better option at = the start, a few years ago.
Glenn Deen: Comcast use SRT significantly an= d so keen for this work to succeed.=C2=A0 What are the current priorities f= or RTP?
Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing data of multiple links,= congestion control
Glenn Denn: Congestion control of interest - as play= ing nicely with the network is in everyone's best interest
Leslie Da= igle: Potential interest in this WG in this protocol.=C2=A0 Detailed protoc= ol machinery discussions will be done in other WGs but MOPS interested
S= pencer Dawkins: An Independent Stream draft on SRT as it exists today will = be of great value to MOPS, because we would have a good reference for the p= rotocol as we start to make recommendations on use of SRT for streaming ope= rators. That was the recommendation for a first step from Dispatch discussi= on on SRT as I understood it, although the current IESG might change that r= ecommendation.

Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in other WGs regarding SR= T, especially concerns regarding security
- When presented at IETF dispa= tch, concerned were expressed by long time IETF contributors like Eric Resc= orla, Colin Perkins, Martin Thompson
discussion here: https= ://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzuw/<= br>- The question was just about the status of those discussions as, given = the position of the people asking with respect to security, media transport= , QUIC, SRTP, at IETF, those questions will come back at one point.
- On= e of the question raised on the Dispatch thread was also, why at mops and n= ot in ART, since it looks more in scope for the later.
- Another questio= n was regarding security definition (eric/martin)
- another question, mo= re generic, is why a new protocol when it looks like webrtc / QUIC are a go= od match to the announced goal (nat traversal, TLS 1.3, CC, BWE, ...)
= =3D> discussion on dispatch would have concluded by a request for a docu= ment, and thus is pending this document availability.



Operat= ional Issues Observed
[15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making t= he world safe for interdomain multicast
Discussed some of the challenges= /opportunities with interdomain multicast
Outlined goals for 2020 & = eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so please reach out if interested
Le= slie Daigle: Interesting overview


AOB
[10min] =C2=A0Liaison S= tatement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620)
Spencer Dawkin= s: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison manager for SC 29/WG 11, on Mon= day; he had no further updates beyond what was in the original liaison stat= ement they sent to IETF.

Leslie Daigle: Git repo set up for WG
Ky= le Rose: Repo will be used when documents are adopted.=C2=A0 Not mandatory = but convenient for collaboration.=C2=A0 Will send URL on list shortly

--000000000000a7313205a3e09a4e-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 06:31:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF4573A0C54 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:31:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.847 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HoaVlpZrduxe for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E6413A0C51 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id s10so2436828wrr.0 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=867qafu4YLP++oNXGPNXuRXhoxAAXmtA7yn5idLCZOw=; b=DfDPwbo5dXmY5BwyX+nVgKnkinUd59b6hwCi7cT1IEb8aLsriKLf7z6357uCFXIunO Ie7WsTrlhXMg7wTgRVORICHJT2w1ShY9W8jUSg03DzA5Ulc5yybzi71coGD1tsjjmyqQ cda9g36v0VEoNrxQ1wnSnA5mZKXNhmRZG0DAF4cXwLi2gHWf2dBboSnal6DBuyr+OW0J 2HhNDe5lED4vXG7prWEm6ThUH1/CJs+/k5a2mz36AHR8oXxSFg0KnuIj8S6D+BAs11iV GBZd8HfP/Yjc/Mt8VlR54pSjjT+k5tAyomQ5UYU4Ke17lOhFIEnx9nJCad0jaNuSY4fU ZcfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=867qafu4YLP++oNXGPNXuRXhoxAAXmtA7yn5idLCZOw=; b=UG/fFu8HH/xUPwlHx1qfRweolWa92bkRjl8/Alu2D+dHYYVFxnHiIEA3MYOk1x8Rde 0MiZkjFh+zr1chkdWwRtxPd0Wju7hoth7MIyYDdXKdUmjILU/r2YRN1O6AWiPXaRh0tb mO3bfEdcd2Q135feaqImiHTRDK17j4A1QFgvUINktIwdak6Tgwd9zGd6mD+mAHrd5KqU a2vI4AAs3Cpr/laDxFhNJsg5uAx4HfBOweUvLCXN3NkbBHTyRVf9rhMq5dbcTp3fCAwW ++2DLkbIxTMIM+fMjkr0gUpIJXrP/ypR38n5+0ggLbgg/8O/f1E4bED+TfjxshAGYyx1 hxSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaX6p4WpRdPbnAghTQD002ij1WnEtsOt1JsFReGdDi1TdRcIcZz a2i4cCDzw/2Ve8P94P7Gda+m+cQwCGb7TrnJ8tI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLNyif4vwyRVh9tSTlpsr2IRDFQ7fYk5ghlqfhyaQ9u1DbaCEtZajcqUafDXJtph0aIygtUseST/kJgVNEcoME= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6503:: with SMTP id x3mr32726536wru.153.1587562270734; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:31:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Lucas Pardue Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:30:59 +0100 Message-ID: To: Kyle Rose Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000034bbce05a3e12506" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:31:15 -0000 --00000000000034bbce05a3e12506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey Spencer, Looking at the issue, there is clearly a benefit to defining what is streaming and what is latency. Rereading the Introduction, the statement "The focus is on capturing characteristics of video delivery that have surprised network designers or transport experts without specific video expertise" is taken by me to include streaming media of any protocol as long as it focuses on the delivery and network aspects. Cheers Lucas On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:43 PM Kyle Rose wrote: > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF < > spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear MOPS, >> >> We have an issue in >> https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ that >> proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and >> discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I understood the limits >> of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and >> globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as >> possible topics. >> >> This is, I think, the kind of conversation that we should be having on >> the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a conversation >> on an issue in Github ought to be"). >> >> Could people take a look at >> https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, >> and let the working group know your thoughts? >> > > > I've added a comment asking people to take further discussion of that > issue to the mailing list prior to merging any related changes. > > > From my reading of the charter, there's nothing disqualifying MOPS from > addressing realtime media delivery issues, so long as we: > > * Restrict our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with > the network and not move higher in the technology stack; and > * Focus on development of informational documents related to issues that > affect operations for use by other working groups and SDOs, and not get > into the business of developing protocols ourselves. > > Clearly, realtime use cases (such as for interactive applications such as > Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose > requirements on networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS > as having been chartered for the express purpose of sussing out such > requirements by leveraging the expertise and experience of a broad range of > SMEs who would otherwise not have had a natural forum in the IETF for such > collaboration. > > Kyle > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > --00000000000034bbce05a3e12506 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Spencer,

Looking at the = issue, there is clearly a benefit to defining what is streaming and what is= latency.

Rereading the Introduction, the sta= tement "The focus is on capturing characteristics of video delivery th= at have surprised network designers or transport experts without specific video expertise" is taken by me to include streaming media of= any protocol as long as it focuses on the delivery and network aspects.

Cheers
Lucas

On Wed, Apr 22, = 2020 at 1:43 PM Kyle Rose <krose@kros= e.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdaw= kins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear MOPS,

We have a= n issue in=20 https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-stream= ing-opcons/=C2=A0 that proposes a "low-latency" section in dr= aft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and discussion on that PR is starting to po= ke at what I understood the limits of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks= notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and globally all kinds of RTP-based st= reaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as possible topics.=C2=A0
This is, I think, the kind of conversation=C2=A0that we should= be having on the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger = than a conversation on an issue in Github ought to be").=C2=A0

= Could people take a look at https://github.com= /ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, and let the wo= rking group know your thoughts?

=
<chair hat=3Don&g= t;
I've add= ed a comment asking people to take further discussion of that issue to the = mailing list prior to merging any related changes.
</chair>

From my reading of the charter, there's nothi= ng disqualifying MOPS from addressing realtime media delivery issues, so lo= ng as we:

<= /div>
=C2=A0* Restric= t our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with the network = and not move higher in the technology stack; and
=C2=A0* Focus on development of informati= onal documents related to issues that affect operations for use by other wo= rking groups and SDOs, and not get into the business of developing protocol= s ourselves.

Clearly, realtime=C2=A0use cases (such as for interactive applications such= as Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose requirements on <= /span>networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS as having been chartered for the= express purpose of sussing out such requirements by leveraging the experti= se and experience of a broad range of SMEs who would otherwise not have had= a natural forum in the IETF for such collaboration.

Kyle
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--00000000000034bbce05a3e12506-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 07:46:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD3F83A0D97 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:46:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PWsfMIGNbzGZ for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA5303A0DB0 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id g4so2597516ljl.2 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:46:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yNaMxwzh1UzXITWIXT7HF6KCls8bi2oO4CznUL8mywk=; b=X2DvhpLqMVt2OQFl/3iF4TgoThTjZApHxElOOd9tOno8CV5Fcne+LJVrsveJikp6gm INsocLnrKBOugTJmQnkn7PUPtmtWuYHnTXgCjfRoQjAv3HUHvRXX81Bh5rY+OQG7O2Im bO2z9D5/6cXpYMedrM9EZ+VY5rYeYR44OMzdlWU2wghpGrhP8BkOIsF2NbF3oYNdV1il QXhkDQP4Sp8/clD1aZ1X6Cjc6R/2t/UMw7B72P6NInX47OEIPmAAZv4rx/HmgPTAPTF6 K5BY2hZSXwvnFrCFIRuIOxQzBkETIY855xlZ4q7u/qdnyKBQXX/ZWlUCybxdVArr7aJz +5Uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yNaMxwzh1UzXITWIXT7HF6KCls8bi2oO4CznUL8mywk=; b=egm90o2OHaO/OM1vNJ+e6HxGv6FNQfdspyuh1f1VmdCRmdX/TIoLQNqjjPSk+W/s7I xYohBBfdjCGN1tGhfqCKVEzEmkA9shY78ufMBm+wAizDD2hlLVyoq6lZD4omCDO3zaNk zqvLrgEC3CXfn+ZMZ6w4R0pcQ5QvgPQdffItFqQE/F59/IFrozJHE1Iec/PyVwOUFJIJ Yj2xW0fTU50lGOCvregQHlE95CfR3ViQ1h3TJ3BysvWLrijjLwX8dUbNE6rEF76vpX4r fPg7rj7yEOk4S4FJUGrbYSZpvC/eHpCN3OjIi+MSk8/bUz+psjdlpfhk8IVHfBQOrDKB 705A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYx4DHU+vKgt0t+L9AlkPoP+Xb4v/2y4WPuUFF0O+irEqa5RQyT NyJYUlU39JKbb3rBbCKLY/hgktk6My3zkvTN/Xn2Ob6MPzQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIJf4M56etjg1SCbp/fOBKjzd38j7LMorVaK5/RLbq+b9b7p3tJY7K+avG4ljsO0fEqmV4KYnaFzcHiKtqWoOc= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7e04:: with SMTP id z4mr16692469ljc.50.1587566761803; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:46:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:45:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: Kyle Rose Cc: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e54ff605a3e2307a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] Draft minutes from 2020-Apr interim X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:46:07 -0000 --000000000000e54ff605a3e2307a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Kyle, On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:52 AM Kyle Rose wrote: > I've pasted the draft minutes from our Ides of April interim below. Thank= s > again to Olufemi Komolafe for volunteering! Please review and provide > clarifications and/or corrections to the chairs. Otherwise, we'll be > posting the minutes to the data tracker in a week at which point it will = be > part of your Permanent Record. > Thanks for the excellent start on minutes. I have a couple of notes below. Best, Spencer > Kyle > > > > > > Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG > > April 2020 Virtual Interim > Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC > > Webex details below > > Agenda > > Intro > > Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s) > > Review of concrete work items: > > [15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming > media > Jake Holland > draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons > Github - https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons > Accepting comments via GitHub issues > Presented update on draft > Discussion on =E2=80=9CSoliciting Contributions - Proposed Template=E2=80= =9D > + have in current draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?) > Matt Stock: Like template and sees potential > Jake Holland: Appreciates feedback. Potential to write diffrent BCPs, > targeted at diffrent audience > Spencer Dawkins: Aim is for draft to not only call out potential bad > things but rather try to be actionable, hence why mitigations are solicit= ed > Glenn Deen: +1 on collecting mitigations and sees potential in this > highlighting potential areas of interest/work. Mitigations are only a fir= st > step, and where there are really egregious problems the mitigation may be= a > temporary approach and the issue may trigger additional work relevant to > the IETF. > Matt Stock: Mitigations may not be black/white but rather may involve > tradeoffs which should be called out to inform decision-making > Leslie Daigle: Maybe collect the issues as a starting point > Spencer Dawkins: Thanks to both Glenn and Matt for these excellent > suggestions > Updates from elsewhere > > Updates from other work > [15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG > Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video traffic seeing by > carriers > Discussed ongoing and potential work of interest in SVA and potential new > working groups > Glenn Deen: Recent work in SVA working group on media use cases for > multicast streaming that may be of interest > Jake Holland: Work looks interesting. What does engagement with SVA look > like? SVA members commenting on IETF mailing list? Interested to hear mo= re > about the multicast work > Sanjay Mishra: Perhaps bring back updates/proble statements etc from SVA > to IETF, IETF can work on these items and perhaps SVA consumes the output > Spencer Dawkins: Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video > traffic. > This could be "Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic, with references. draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons now has a section on "Unpredictable Usage Profiles", and the authors have been talking about mentioning COVID-19 as well. > Glenn Deen: Address potential issue regarding IPR raised by Jake Holland. > There should be no issues - SVA docs are published on the web for all to > read and IP issues shouldn't enter into MOPS working with SVA use csses. = If > still concerned, please come talk to glenn.deen@nbcuni.com - I'm on the > SVA board. > > > > [5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE > > > [15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT =E2=80=94 see > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on > MOPS mailing list > Overview of potential benefits SRT > Jake Holland: Questions about protocol and operational use. Suitable for > contribution/distribution or livestreaming to end-users? > Max Sharabayko: SRT is well-suited for media > Marc Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means not SRT is not direct > What other protocols were considered and what was deficient about them? > Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal was to transmit live stream over public > internet. Came to problem with clean slate and started with UDP and added > enhancements to make it more suited for real-time traffic. > Kyle Rose: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have been a better > option at the start, a few years ago. > Glenn Deen: Comcast use SRT significantly and so keen for this work to > succeed. What are the current priorities for RTP? > Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing data of multiple links, > congestion control > Glenn Denn: Congestion control of interest - as playing nicely with the > network is in everyone's best interest > Leslie Daigle: Potential interest in this WG in this protocol. Detailed > protocol machinery discussions will be done in other WGs but MOPS interes= ted > Spencer Dawkins: An Independent Stream draft on SRT as it exists today > will be of great value to MOPS, because we would have a good reference fo= r > the protocol as we start to make recommendations on use of SRT for > streaming operators. That was the recommendation for a first step from > Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, although the current IESG > might change that recommendation. > My last sentence would be clearer as "That was the recommendation for a first step from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, although the final direction would be up to the responsible area directors".. > > Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in other WGs regarding SRT, especially > concerns regarding security > - When presented at IETF dispatch, concerned were expressed by long time > IETF contributors like Eric Rescorla, Colin Perkins, Martin Thompson > discussion here: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzu= w/ > - The question was just about the status of those discussions as, given > the position of the people asking with respect to security, media > transport, QUIC, SRTP, at IETF, those questions will come back at one poi= nt. > - One of the question raised on the Dispatch thread was also, why at mops > and not in ART, since it looks more in scope for the later. > that's probably "for the latter". > - Another question was regarding security definition (eric/martin) > - another question, more generic, is why a new protocol when it looks lik= e > webrtc / QUIC are a good match to the announced goal (nat traversal, TLS > 1.3, CC, BWE, ...) > =3D> discussion on dispatch would have concluded by a request for a > document, and thus is pending this document availability. > > > > Operational Issues Observed > [15min] Jake Holland =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for inter= domain > multicast > Discussed some of the challenges/opportunities with interdomain multicast > Outlined goals for 2020 & eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so please > reach out if interested > Leslie Daigle: Interesting overview > > > AOB > [10min] Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 1862= 0) > Spencer Dawkins: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison manager for SC > 29/WG 11, on Monday; he had no further updates beyond what was in the > original liaison statement they sent to IETF. > > Leslie Daigle: Git repo set up for WG > Kyle Rose: Repo will be used when documents are adopted. Not mandatory > but convenient for collaboration. Will send URL on list shortly > > > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > --000000000000e54ff605a3e2307a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Kyle,=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:= 52 AM Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org&= gt; wrote:
I've pasted the draft minute= s from our Ides of April interim below. Thanks again to Olufemi Komolafe fo= r volunteering! Please review and provide clarifications and/or corrections= to the chairs. Otherwise, we'll be posting the minutes to the data tra= cker in a week at which point it will be part of your Permanent Record.

Thanks for the excellent start on = minutes. I have a couple of notes below.

Best,

Spencer
=C2=A0
= Kyle





Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG

April 2020 Virtu= al Interim
Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC

Webex deta= ils below

Agenda

Intro

Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s)<= br>
Review of concrete work items:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
[15min] Draft o= f edge network operational considerations for streaming media
Jake Holla= nd
draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons
Github - http= s://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons
Accepti= ng comments via GitHub issues
Presented update on draft
Discussion o= n =E2=80=9CSoliciting Contributions - Proposed Template=E2=80=9D
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ have in current draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?)Matt Stock: Like template and sees potential
Jake Holland: Appreciates = feedback.=C2=A0 Potential to write diffrent BCPs, targeted at diffrent audi= ence
Spencer Dawkins: Aim is for draft to not only call out potential ba= d things but rather try to be actionable, hence why mitigations are solicit= ed
Glenn Deen: +1 on collecting mitigations and sees potential in this h= ighlighting potential areas of interest/work. Mitigations are only a first = step, and where there are really egregious problems the mitigation may be a= temporary approach and the issue may trigger additional work relevant to t= he IETF. =C2=A0
Matt Stock: Mitigations may not be black/white but rathe= r may involve tradeoffs which should be called out to inform decision-makin= g
Leslie Daigle: Maybe collect the issues as a starting point
Spencer= Dawkins: Thanks to both Glenn and Matt for these excellent suggestions
=
=
Updates from elsewhere
<= br>Updates from other work
[15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Ope= n Caching WG
Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video traff= ic seeing by carriers
Discussed ongoing and potential work of interest = in SVA and potential new working groups
Glenn Deen: Recent work in SVA w= orking group on media use cases for multicast streaming that may be of inte= rest
Jake Holland: Work looks interesting.=C2=A0 What does engagement wi= th SVA look like?=C2=A0 SVA members commenting on IETF mailing list? Intere= sted to hear more about the multicast work
Sanjay Mishra: Perhaps bring = back updates/proble statements etc from SVA to IETF, IETF can work on these= items and perhaps SVA consumes the output
Spencer Dawkins: Thanks for d= iscussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic.=C2=A0

This could be "Thanks for discussion on COVI= D-19 impact on video traffic, with references. draft-ietf-mops-streaming-op= cons now has a section on "Unpredictable Usage Profiles", and the= authors have been talking about mentioning COVID-19 as well.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Glenn Deen: Address potential issue= regarding IPR raised by Jake Holland.=C2=A0 There should be no issues - SV= A docs are published on the web for all to read and IP issues shouldn't= enter into MOPS working with SVA use csses. If still concerned, please com= e talk to glenn.= deen@nbcuni.com - I'm on the SVA board.



[5min] Glenn= Deen -- anything further re SMPTE


[15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT = =E2=80=94 see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-s= rt/ , posted on MOPS mailing list
Overview of potential benefits SRT
= Jake Holland: Questions about protocol and operational use.=C2=A0 Suitable = for contribution/distribution or livestreaming to end-users?
Max Sharaba= yko: SRT is well-suited for media
Marc Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means no= t SRT is not direct
What other protocols were considered and what was de= ficient about them?
Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal was to transmit liv= e stream over public internet. Came to problem with clean slate and started= with UDP and added enhancements to make it more suited for real-time traff= ic. =C2=A0
Kyle Rose: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have bee= n a better option at the start, a few years ago.
Glenn Deen: Comcast use= SRT significantly and so keen for this work to succeed.=C2=A0 What are the= current priorities for RTP?
Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing da= ta of multiple links, congestion control
Glenn Denn: Congestion control = of interest - as playing nicely with the network is in everyone's best = interest
Leslie Daigle: Potential interest in this WG in this protocol.= =C2=A0 Detailed protocol machinery discussions will be done in other WGs bu= t MOPS interested
Spencer Dawkins: An Independent Stream draft on SRT as= it exists today will be of great value to MOPS, because we would have a go= od reference for the protocol as we start to make recommendations on use of= SRT for streaming operators. That was the recommendation for a first step = from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, although the current IE= SG might change that recommendation.

<= /div>
My last sentence would be clearer as "That was the recommend= ation for a first step from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood it, = although the final direction would be up to the responsible area directors&= quot;..

Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in = other WGs regarding SRT, especially concerns regarding security
- When p= resented at IETF dispatch, concerned were expressed by long time IETF contr= ibutors like Eric Rescorla, Colin Perkins, Martin Thompson
discussion he= re: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/di= spatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzuw/
- The question was just about th= e status of those discussions as, given the position of the people asking w= ith respect to security, media transport, QUIC, SRTP, at IETF, those questi= ons will come back at one point.
- One of the question raised on the Dis= patch thread was also, why at mops and not in ART, since it looks more in s= cope for the later.

that= 9;s probably "for the latter".=C2=A0
=C2=A0
- Another question was regarding security definition (eric= /martin)
- another question, more generic, is why a new protocol when it= looks like webrtc / QUIC are a good match to the announced goal (nat trave= rsal, TLS 1.3, CC, BWE, ...)
=3D> discussion on dispatch would have c= oncluded by a request for a document, and thus is pending this document ava= ilability.



Operational Issues Observed
[15min] Jake Holla= nd =E2=80=94 Experience making the world safe for interdomain multicast
= Discussed some of the challenges/opportunities with interdomain multicastOutlined goals for 2020 & eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so plea= se reach out if interested
Leslie Daigle: Interesting overview

AOB
[10min] =C2=A0Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (= SC 29 N 18620)
Spencer Dawkins: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison= manager for SC 29/WG 11, on Monday; he had no further updates beyond what = was in the original liaison statement they sent to IETF.

Leslie Daig= le: Git repo set up for WG
Kyle Rose: Repo will be used when documents a= re adopted.=C2=A0 Not mandatory but convenient for collaboration.=C2=A0 Wil= l send URL on list shortly


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--000000000000e54ff605a3e2307a-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 08:59:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0404F3A0F78; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dP_PY1KCBADo; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64D603A0F93; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id w29so2061015qtv.3; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=dZYszJX38CThpYutHo8ztTu1BFLi7mWXCSTnIMWQs0o=; b=Hs9bEr90p12LxZe1mLdHcuHLGvD/2409qqo3RDoyF3imZGePd5QCIfjiMyD66aDXMz I5+I2mrmqHjRF5gwmmx5ZvVHB9CJiv0oIhCRX8NoCThXMy7ifVLqhPoNluqpYwq+r2x1 1i8zXgufH3X3zDUTPANzkYN6ONC8Z3GskbLtL7qC5EDF3yvy9rVOh3lK2NDiZpNBGk9u qYcMQKNqsfdu/WEVs8G+OtO4/raK6BZsLHRlhNyBIyFF0jjAbniXQAoJXSUKG6c+2CAt k7pNBDQt+6yA1/naJD5p6OASAdZNlpcafaHvhCD1uqJBRPlZPGFW+igD3+ZU9oBFpE95 QnmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dZYszJX38CThpYutHo8ztTu1BFLi7mWXCSTnIMWQs0o=; b=ada0GuVu5h8GntgDEe/Ws4LE29GEFZAxJHv5JQ1pHK0f0R58RBX7cbwgu/Jcg9rWx0 ZcSV5gmiB6R6OhOBf+D1CnyAn8NKjZlZD6pnJkvgYa9wf6NOyRu25+/MwYuZBBU1sH3E bMBthfuGt3EsGeKmvop2ZqmEyyc5gc9jNgx5C9njy/Cs2kcZ2C7emma1g/tn1Y72BMpK HZ8+jXt4X9A/l+QtUygdjtrkS9c+dyXw2ToGd5EYFQ/l5ZqRZxbFyC1EoGrIrltIruTz NNxKc0Zt6dEr7/9eI40N281jmdMcLgwjmwolfEhTjeGmglvyfF3eHKVzg/CK2aoQrblq NIvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Puare5XM67TGyfPZBGna3PII9z71u/yjP7ybs9GVOZWrn6Th9OeV gvc53H710bjS+gnnQnc0B/4BXUhEJjEtiPUsW5OlmNtp X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIzWLMnOu8twT3M3pbbZ2edlSN0sWf6Z41GjJAojHKPkS+Gvb3G1ufzFVuvGQFPYMXTv9BtCv/rL+iZtUW1c4I= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:27f9:: with SMTP id x54mr26856731qtx.45.1587571143350; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:59:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5C294848-824F-4EBC-B690-398754CC6B31@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <5C294848-824F-4EBC-B690-398754CC6B31@akamai.com> Reply-To: gjshep@gmail.com From: Greg Shepherd Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:58:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Holland, Jake" Cc: MBONED WG , "mops@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000e1f5205a3e336d4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] [MBONED] DVB: New Multicast Video Spec X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:59:06 -0000 --0000000000000e1f5205a3e336d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Jake! The ball is starting to roll.. On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:18 PM Holland, Jake wrote: > Hi mops and mboned participants, > > I wanted to let you all know about a new spec that has recently come to my > attention from the DVB SDO, detailing a new standard approach to delivering > video over multicast, via reliable delivery of video segments that > interoperate with DASH players: > > > https://dvb.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/A176_Adaptive-Media-Streaming-over-IP-Multicast_Mar-2020.pdf > > Something to be aware of, and hopefully helpful to some of us. > > Best regards, > Jake > > > _______________________________________________ > MBONED mailing list > MBONED@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned > --0000000000000e1f5205a3e336d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Jake! The ball is starting to roll..

On Tue, Apr 21,= 2020 at 12:18 PM Holland, Jake <jholland=3D40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi mops and mboned participants,

I wanted to let you all know about a new spec that has recently come to my<= br> attention from the DVB SDO, detailing a new standard approach to delivering=
video over multicast, via reliable delivery of video segments that
interoperate with DASH players:

https://dvb.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/A176_Adaptive-Media-Streaming= -over-IP-Multicast_Mar-2020.pdf

Something to be aware of, and hopefully helpful to some of us.

Best regards,
Jake


_______________________________________________
MBONED mailing list
MBONED@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mboned
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scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004220127 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:54:23 -0000 --_000_CF750D7A596E4134AA21D70FDE9D5DE6nbcunicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIEt5bGUuDQoNCkZyb20gbXkgbWVtb3J5IG9mIHdoZW4gdGhlbiBjaGFydGVy IHdhcyBiZWluZyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGlzIHRoYXQgTGF0ZW5jeSB3YXNu4oCZdCBhIGRldGVybWlu aW5nIGZhY3RvciBmb3Igd2hhdOKAmXMgaW4gc2NvcGUuICBJdCB3YXMgdXNlIGRyaXZlbi4gICBW aWRlbyBDb25mZXJlbmNpbmcgaXMgbm90IGluIGFzIGl0cyB1c2UtY2FzZXMgYW5kIHdvcmtmbG93 IGFyZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgZnJvbSBvdGhlciBtZWRpYSBhY3F1aXNpdGlvbiBhbmQgZGVsaXZlcnku ICAgVGhlcmUgbWF5IGJlIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgb3ZlcmxhcCBiZXR3ZWVuIHZpZGVvLWNvbmZlcmVu 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header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0DieiXCp9ifA for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6F063A0B80 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id b12so3699031ion.8 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lQRZbn5vi3d7L/LyQjlnenDdO7d75cVtJVT7/igRtIw=; b=pbCnxMptnU9OHYr4lwvDR2x9SHEVOJ/IqC2SgWEJAYWWBR70c5Ua2y6SBZ82+LnXY7 CmpmVYW8J+thB4Nr2G31jE7DRUNH3gSRw7SVaqoGLnTlItY/XfSz2OUFGEhFP0y8vGbY 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APiQypK4+GWdfyy9of7lwgjE959gcKuSKS535BN9ASvbtf40TSh55RoGdN6xft6Y3v+vNaowBkrpr53+5KGxEekzeL0= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9c59:: with SMTP id 25mr256423iof.147.1587583541679; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:25:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:25:30 +0200 Message-ID: To: Lucas Pardue Cc: Kyle Rose , mops@ietf.org, Spencer Dawkins at IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d99ac05a3e619c5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:25:49 -0000 --0000000000000d99ac05a3e619c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" As participating in the GitHub ticket, the usages of webrtc specifically I had in mind that I believe fit the scope (and it is naive, i can be completely wrong) are: - usage a p2p data channel for extension of CDN delivery (webrtc examples: peer5, peerCDN, ....) (flash example: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2009-develop/p2p-on-the-flash-platform-with-rtmfp/ ) - one-to-many, streaming only, flash-replacement use cases: - servers: red5, ant media, medooze, .... - PaaS: http://millicast.com/, PhenixRTS , limelight Network, ... - Specifically cloud gaming - Stadia note that webrtc, srt, rtmp, http/3, QUIC with datagrams , are all pretty much interchangeable for those use cases. for your kind attention. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lucas Pardue wrote: > Hey Spencer, > > Looking at the issue, there is clearly a benefit to defining what is > streaming and what is latency. > > Rereading the Introduction, the statement "The focus is on capturing > characteristics of video delivery that have surprised network designers or > transport experts without specific video expertise" is taken by me to > include streaming media of any protocol as long as it focuses on the > delivery and network aspects. > > Cheers > Lucas > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:43 PM Kyle Rose wrote: > >> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF < >> spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear MOPS, >>> >>> We have an issue in >>> https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ that >>> proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and >>> discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I understood the limits >>> of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and >>> globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as >>> possible topics. >>> >>> This is, I think, the kind of conversation that we should be having on >>> the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a conversation >>> on an issue in Github ought to be"). >>> >>> Could people take a look at >>> https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, >>> and let the working group know your thoughts? >>> >> >> >> I've added a comment asking people to take further discussion of that >> issue to the mailing list prior to merging any related changes. >> >> >> From my reading of the charter, there's nothing disqualifying MOPS from >> addressing realtime media delivery issues, so long as we: >> >> * Restrict our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with >> the network and not move higher in the technology stack; and >> * Focus on development of informational documents related to issues that >> affect operations for use by other working groups and SDOs, and not get >> into the business of developing protocols ourselves. >> >> Clearly, realtime use cases (such as for interactive applications such >> as Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose >> requirements on networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS >> as having been chartered for the express purpose of sussing out such >> requirements by leveraging the expertise and experience of a broad range of >> SMEs who would otherwise not have had a natural forum in the IETF for such >> collaboration. >> >> Kyle >> -- >> Mops mailing list >> Mops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops >> > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > -- Alex. Gouaillard, PhD, PhD, MBA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ President - CoSMo Software Consulting, Singapore ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ sg.linkedin.com/agouaillard - --0000000000000d99ac05a3e619c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As participating in the = GitHub ticket, the usages of webrtc specifically I had in mind that I belie= ve fit the scope (and it is naive, i can be completely wrong) are:

=
- usage a p2p data channel for extension of CDN delivery
=C2=A0 (webrtc examples: peer5, peerCDN, ....)

- one-to= -many, streaming=C2=A0only, flash-replacement use cases:
=C2=A0 -= servers: red5, ant media, medooze, ....
=C2=A0 - PaaS: http://millicast.com/, PhenixRTS, limelight Network, ...

- Specifically cloud gaming
=C2=A0- Stadia

<= /div>
note that webrtc, srt, rtmp, http/3, QUIC with=C2=A0datagrams, a= re all pretty much interchangeable for those use cases.

for your kind attention.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 3:3= 1 PM Lucas Pardue <lucaspa= rdue.24.7@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Spencer,

Looking at the issue, there i= s clearly a benefit to defining what is streaming and what is latency.
=

Rereading the Introduction, the statement "T= he focus is on capturing characteristics of video delivery that have surprised network designers or transport experts without specific video expertise" is taken by me to include streaming media of= any protocol as long as it focuses on the delivery and network aspects.

Cheers
Lucas

On Wed, Apr 22, = 2020 at 1:43 PM Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org> wrote:
O= n Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:32 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gma= il.com> wrote:
Dear MOPS,=

We have an issue in=20 https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-stream= ing-opcons/=C2=A0 that proposes a "low-latency" section in dr= aft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons, and discussion on that PR is starting to po= ke at what I understood the limits of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks= notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0, WebRTC and globally all kinds of RTP-based st= reaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as possible topics.=C2=A0
This is, I think, the kind of conversation=C2=A0that we should= be having on the working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger = than a conversation on an issue in Github ought to be").=C2=A0

= Could people take a look at https://github.com= /ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues/3, and let the wo= rking group know your thoughts?

=
<chair hat=3Don&g= t;
I've add= ed a comment asking people to take further discussion of that issue to the = mailing list prior to merging any related changes.
</chair>

From my reading of the charter, there's nothi= ng disqualifying MOPS from addressing realtime media delivery issues, so lo= ng as we:

<= /div>
=C2=A0* Restric= t our scope to the interaction of media-related protocols with the network = and not move higher in the technology stack; and
=C2=A0* Focus on development of informati= onal documents related to issues that affect operations for use by other wo= rking groups and SDOs, and not get into the business of developing protocol= s ourselves.

Clearly, realtime=C2=A0use cases (such as for interactive applications such= as Stadia and for hand-wave latency minimization on live broadcasts) impose requirements on <= /span>networks, protocols, and their interactions. I see MOPS as having been chartered for the= express purpose of sussing out such requirements by leveraging the experti= se and experience of a broad range of SMEs who would otherwise not have had= a natural forum in the IETF for such collaboration.

Kyle
--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops


--
Alex. Gouaillard, PhD, PhD, MBA
-------------= -----------------------------------------------------------------------
President - CoSMo Software Consulting, Singapore
---------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------=

--0000000000000d99ac05a3e619c5-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 16:58:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACBF3A0E60 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:58:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-iwYGDtSLW9 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.live555.com (us.live555.com [52.8.240.222]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E74B03A0E61 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.live555.com [IPv6:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1]) by us.live555.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 03MNwRoI087097 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from finlayson@live555.com) From: Ross Finlayson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 11:58:27 +1200 References: To: mops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <5186BAEC-C946-43DE-8465-E47C96D3DB71@live555.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:58:33 -0000 IMHO, the MOPS charter is already too broad/fuzzy. We should restrict = it to covering two use cases only: 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e.g., watching = movies at home), and 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events - e.g., football = matches, presidential announcements In contrast, I see 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), video conferencing, = and cloud gaming as being out of scope. Re. latency: While it is an issue for 1/ (playback startup time) and 2/ = (startup time, lag from =E2=80=98real time=E2=80=99), latency = requirements are not nearly as stringent as they would be for 3/ Ross Finlayson Live Networks, Inc. http://www.live555.com/ From nobody Thu Apr 23 02:17:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A6B3A1784 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:17:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5s9LmWylZlSh for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6362F3A1783 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id i16so4849667ils.12 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:17:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SP9YN1iLpcg5PnR+tWjXVr2B0ecZpgnnrY80A16FsiQ=; b=AqKrbWbM/nFmy5JJ+ZsIFgYkdW/wP0OCXCZ9/IBcwFN8sr7IETv5aWLFKE73QkV14y j88SRMsJ/IfyKvi9XBFB3ckx8qDI8DqAtwFtI5eRxAjGa5W73TAi/qnjIkXHiyUVVHrb LTkaY0zqFx9vKkZ4s+ommjHnQM760QMf0dn/u1RwzNOMn8216skC0D9KptY4CN/A0Hoz TvzZhdwl0fAa6v5VCQx2KMTmyHXZuXe0GEmyiQ8gbSOU6Vkh/65FlOcZ7CEjtyPH3/k/ PJLDUFUiWTcSbbzxlXS64zAcmCvBthByR7tdApPab2o+4caIL68+GjKjgpLPZuPYR976 XTXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SP9YN1iLpcg5PnR+tWjXVr2B0ecZpgnnrY80A16FsiQ=; b=CQ9llX3eB/CcWFAe53IqRs8UH9swrq+ncqUU1aZOXDkGey4LQ3MT/4PPJoF3Oc50SX YPuBLAFAxWBgtPAJ7z+CQCXMSuSAh2Sw4to4pMuthCdBAFbIEE9OU4S/xv/CuKP3upbg XIiR8YMppve/sTXO1HcifzYeMkiY7gANE/zoQTg5wFI47YbV4rSQ1mEJFvegADvm06tB auApiScbiNaFeJ7I+lXURmtz5aAYxnalyhOCHVv2/d9g4ohEhgpeJTgO46AuZfaa2JI3 sEypAdaFZ1DN+RmCVL9+eyp+Kr4biinGanXoQ2ODx5Gs9Nl5FOpMQftycFlXCiGsS3/f xWtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZdlY+GSH26trvTLi5Dv4mWxSxHcqoJv6qdhiVBMuMjQjGpfgRd kyJ0qQmv9g5EKOu9auAC7+7X7ZQBvlaHQIc+J8PdZbCFOJ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJv921vAr+2r5M4ZvuWbXKHLVgdBDc1VMRzXVWEdD/W6E+knM60Q0iDAc8NjvREko/DPJ8IOLezHvhwZTmE2t8= X-Received: by 2002:a92:af11:: with SMTP id n17mr2560911ili.197.1587633456709; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:17:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5186BAEC-C946-43DE-8465-E47C96D3DB71@live555.com> In-Reply-To: <5186BAEC-C946-43DE-8465-E47C96D3DB71@live555.com> From: Alexandre GOUAILLARD Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 11:17:25 +0200 Message-ID: To: Ross Finlayson Cc: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000038848405a3f1b8a4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:17:39 -0000 --00000000000038848405a3f1b8a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > IMHO, the MOPS charter is already too broad/fuzzy. We should restrict it > to covering two use cases only: > 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e.g., watching > movies at home), and > 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events - e.g., football > matches, presidential announcements > IMHO that makes sense, and we feel it is aligned with what we proposed before, i.e. to draw boundaries based on use case, and not on latency (sorry, too fast), or underlying tech (sorry, we only entertain file-based, HTTP-based protocols like HLS and MPEG-DASH, and without CMAF, the later making those protocols too fast to fall in scope). We believe the point number two, as it is proposed above, could be too restrictive. Would there be any reason to segregate based on content? For example, is sport, and live events in scope, but news being streamed live from the field would not be? An argument could be made that a definition of Streaming as sending media, one way (*unidirectiona*l, or send-only), *1-to-many*, with many being a relatively large number, large enough to rule out say video conferencing or webinars, could be a sufficient definition. Restricting the use case based on media content is difficult. After all, when it comes to VOD, the point #1, one does not differentiate based on whether the original content is a recorded LoL game, a documentary, a cartoon, a movie, news, ..... Why making such a distinction for point #2? > In contrast, I see > 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), video conferencing, We agree. We don't remember anybody really proposing this. > and cloud gaming > We think this could be argued one way or the other. I do not have horse in the race but in my opinion, the reason why one might want to entertain cloud gaming is that, apart from the content itself, it is much closer to a one-to-many, unidirectionnal use case than to video conferencing. Also there is the precedent of Stadia being presented in the scope of the group. I think it's right on the boundary :-) We do not feel strongly about cloud gaming. We are just expressing our opinion in this thread. we might be naive and totally off topic. We would love to get feedback from the chairs on the matter. Best regards, Dr. Alex. - --00000000000038848405a3f1b8a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IMHO, the MOPS charter is already too broad/fuzzy.=C2=A0 We sh= ould restrict it to covering two use cases only:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e= .g., watching movies at home), and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events -= e.g., football matches, presidential announcements
IMHO that makes sense, and we feel it is aligned with what we = proposed before, i.e. to draw boundaries based on use case, and not on late= ncy (sorry, too fast), or underlying tech (sorry, we only entertain file-ba= sed, HTTP-based protocols like HLS and MPEG-DASH, and without CMAF, the lat= er making those protocols too fast to fall in scope).

<= div>We believe the point number two, as it is proposed above, could be too = restrictive. Would=C2=A0there be any reason to segregate based on content? = For example, is sport, and live events in scope, but news being streamed li= ve from the field would not be? An argument could be made that =C2=A0a defi= nition of Streaming as =C2=A0sending media, one way (unidirectional,= or send-only),=C2=A0=C2=A01-to-many, with many being a relatively l= arge number, large enough to rule out say video conferencing or webinars, c= ould be a sufficient definition.

Restricting the u= se case based on media content is difficult. After all, when it comes to VO= D, the point #1, one does not differentiate based on whether the original c= ontent is a recorded LoL game, a documentary, a cartoon, a movie, news, ...= .. Why making such a distinction for point #2?


In contrast, I see
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), vide= o conferencing,

We agree. We=C2=A0don'= t remember anybody really proposing this.
=C2=A0
and cloud gaming

We think this co= uld be argued one way or the other. I do not have horse in the race but in = my opinion, the reason why one might want to entertain cloud gaming is that= , apart from the content itself, it is much closer to a one-to-many, unidir= ectionnal use case than to video conferencing. Also there is the precedent = of Stadia being presented in the scope of the group. I think it's right= on the boundary :-) We do not feel strongly about cloud gaming.
=
We are just expressing our=C2=A0opinion in this thread. we m= ight be naive and totally off topic. We would love to get feedback from the= chairs on the matter.

Best regards,
Dr. Alex.


--00000000000038848405a3f1b8a4-- From nobody Thu Apr 23 07:31:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F183A092E for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 07:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w3o6engF9nns for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 07:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (buffalo.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 703953A092B for ; 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boundary="=_MailMate_C84A1328-FB82-4E43-81D9-7EA3C64C7394_=" X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrgeelgdeiiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffoffkgggtsegrtdhmreertdejnecuhfhrohhmpedfnfgvshhlihgvucffrghighhlvgdfuceolhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpeihohhuthhusggvrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurddugegnpdhinhgvthepvdduiedrieeirddutddvrdekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthhepfdfnvghslhhivgcuffgrihhglhgvfdcuoehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehluggrihhglhgvsehthhhinhhkihhnghgtrghtrdgtohhm Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] In case you missed it: MOPS virtual interim X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 14:31:42 -0000 --=_MailMate_C84A1328-FB82-4E43-81D9-7EA3C64C7394_= Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown Hi, In case you were unable to join for the virtual interim, the Secretariat have uploaded the Webex recording to our YouTube channel, and you can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QExiajdC0IY&feature=youtu.be Leslie. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_C84A1328-FB82-4E43-81D9-7EA3C64C7394_= Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

In case you were unable to join for the virtual interim, = the Secretariat have uploaded the Webex recording to our YouTube channel,= and you can watch it here:

https://www.youtube.com/w= atch?v=3DQExiajdC0IY&feature=3Dyoutu.be

Leslie.

--


Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

--=_MailMate_C84A1328-FB82-4E43-81D9-7EA3C64C7394_=-- From nobody Thu Apr 23 10:07:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171C13A0D0E for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:07:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=networked-media.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AyqkLr3A4Ubq for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D2EE3A0D0D for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id k28so5350901lfe.10 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:07:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networked-media.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JIFPypez9W7xc3s04n8lacDf3GubKqi5islJQka13VQ=; b=jPhN7QVUoexyGZhKGAppJXGSNaa+DpZab2/otivLYnx2b2UWXy3hoI61wrwVLNSQbq mN/PifF3/oSuyaRqCiMTXeSIMjesHnrHuRbfan5d9UJhJ9kkZ//2n0A+hoSnMvVNeGw5 zrfI7lPlL8vOmMCmeffEbJbFk+wR0ZImq6CL2n1j1wpLl1r+1J52QhfO7pRJ33C5uktt kIP6QMwpOTbJ2/wbJybwdFYZX09Yq7oskvoPVyslBYyg6goPpH/uQ0XykxjXiL+8rAQR kg/KMmd/r5xU2sOWO9s1pgn43GZoPv6IIw4XrBXnzZt+JyzTcruqxNTY/BDpgI3HrqUP Nexw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JIFPypez9W7xc3s04n8lacDf3GubKqi5islJQka13VQ=; b=kULIy5eYC3MFFep6KzG2TBb/SwJSA8F5Y5TqU2RudeY7tN0QRhXMT+k3FND+c+TyAo 10zpPnhT3zZ3dTr5D5/4N4Yuku27z8uG4pLyUNUNjoWVY7Ag0phMFw8Rf9lTIpd1X0IF 1P0wsIXxXvJ0iErAkWwnWAn8QpUugFga06vksMnjusmPGOhtol42fANPd3PEzEY50S76 mGwZ21MBX9RiaiUwBHsX+ZK+whIgyeth+yvd7pP4lHhkKjR/JOKtG5bYBt8zUl+e88pP HqMJR3oUV5q6f0FZu+4zHvWZ26Jda6tDDBdcCC85DEzr68Cl+96Sm2liDym9IYwGfIS0 X+ZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZFERelI72qjmuswq0XbafO3OAZ5alGrFvqkoL8zrn4L+iQ0Yij k6CKILwXp15C8ESZcDwRDUYv35xzIPDRUZ4LKvSQKigHuas= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIBc/AEqKfTyJrp37Df7H/F6qZAxKMGmDMyyUvk7+U5lcFHWhtJJP+2tsev8nR4eAoDsTPLJq0LhiVU8kxtNqU= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6007:: with SMTP id u7mr3068145lfb.9.1587661660360; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:07:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5186BAEC-C946-43DE-8465-E47C96D3DB71@live555.com> In-Reply-To: <5186BAEC-C946-43DE-8465-E47C96D3DB71@live555.com> From: "Ali C. Begen" Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 20:07:29 +0300 Message-ID: To: Ross Finlayson Cc: mops@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a264605a3f8499f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 17:07:44 -0000 --0000000000004a264605a3f8499f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:58 AM Ross Finlayson wrote: > IMHO, the MOPS charter is already too broad/fuzzy. I agree with this, although I am not sure whether that means we should exclude 3) below. > We should restrict it to covering two use cases only: > 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e.g., watching > movies at home), and > 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events - e.g., football > matches, presidential announcements > > In contrast, I see > 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), video conferencing, an= d > cloud gaming > as being out of scope. > 1) and 2) are non-interactive and 3) is interactive. They can be all considered under the umbrella of media ops if need be. But then most of the folks in this WG are concerned about the bw consumption from 1) and 2), not that much from 3). So, I suppose most of our energy will be spent on the first two. Re. latency: While it is an issue for 1/ (playback startup time) and 2/ > (startup time, lag from =E2=80=98real time=E2=80=99), latency requirement= s are not nearly > as stringent as they would be for 3/ > Latency and startup delay are different and independent from each other. Latency only applies to live (from capture to playback) as well as gaming. Startup delay (or time to first frame) applies to all streaming apps. > Ross Finlayson > Live Networks, Inc. > http://www.live555.com/ > > -- > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops > --0000000000004a264605a3f8499f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:58 AM Ross = Finlayson <finlayson@live555.co= m> wrote:
IMHO, the MOPS charter is already too broad/fuzzy.=C2=A0

I agree with this, although I am not sure whether that mean= s we should exclude=C2=A03) below.
=C2=A0
We should restrict it to covering two use = cases only:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e= .g., watching movies at home), and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events -= e.g., football matches, presidential announcements

In contrast, I see
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), vide= o conferencing, and cloud gaming
as being out of scope.

1) and 2) are no= n-interactive and 3) is interactive. They can be all considered under the u= mbrella=C2=A0of media ops if need be. But then most of the folks in this WG= are concerned about the bw consumption from 1) and 2), not that much from = 3). So, I suppose most of our energy will be spent on the first two.
<= div>
Re. latency: While it is an issue for 1/ (playback startup time) and 2/ (st= artup time, lag from =E2=80=98real time=E2=80=99), latency requirements are= not nearly as stringent as they would be for 3/

<= /div>
Latency and startup delay are different and independent from each= other. Latency only applies to live (from capture to playback) as well as = gaming. Startup delay (or time to first frame) applies to all streaming app= s.=C2=A0


Ross Finlayson
Live Networks, Inc.
ht= tp://www.live555.com/

--
Mops mailing list
Mops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
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Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="===============8274350889972515348==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Repository Activity Summary Bot To: mops@ietf.org Message-Id: <20200426073252.B96103065E0F@mailuser.nyi.internal> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Mops] Weekly github digest (MOPS Activity Summary) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 07:38:06 -0000 --===============8274350889972515348== MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" Events without label "editorial" Issues ------ * ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+2/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC7) 2 issues created: - Discussion on contention and/or fairness in the network (by LPardue) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /22=20 - readme: consider adding links to I-D and editor's copies (by LPardue) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /21=20 1 issues received 7 new comments: - #3 Low-latency vs. others (7 by SpencerDawkins, acbegen, agouaillard-co= smo, squarooticus) https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /3=20 Repositories tracked by this digest: ----------------------------------- * https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons --===============8274350889972515348== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weekly github digest (MOPS Activity Summary)

Sunday April 26, 2020

Events without label "editorial"

Issues

ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons (+2/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC7)

2 issues created:

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--===============8274350889972515348==-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 14:21:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112BB3A0B0F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thinkingcat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OKMtLRJr0zl1 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bisque.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (bisque.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9BC83A0B0D for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:21:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DF013210C2; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:05:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a99.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-6-14.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.6.14]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5B7473208D3; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:05:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a99.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.6); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:05:19 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|ldaigle@thinkingcat.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Print-Rock: 516397dc26d0e1e6_1588021518875_2251320483 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1588021518875:2719793359 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1588021518875 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a99.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a99.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF7B7F0FC; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:05:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=thinkingcat.com; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=thinkingcat.com; bh=e 9t0qcRYnZI9shAU7wwNLdHeI6A=; b=iZlq0myxnDusjL/UT5008bBBpiyjnr3vZ 2HMqfIyj0qOGiFkHXn3tS4C2O8Lz4tMSG0CbKn6G+Uct5dXi18i1YJ5ANp1XSn9d eo8B1+saaF2KnvOEwADEIbywxt9Mk13panc3z+UvUzEe7Do/V+4TgoXE14WrcKcE qFY2tq5hzc= Received: from [169.254.144.102] (vtelinet-216-66-102-83.vermontel.net [216.66.102.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ldaigle@thinkingcat.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a99.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E69267F0F7; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:05:16 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a99 From: "Leslie Daigle" To: mops@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:05:14 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: <6949E7FB-C593-4613-B55B-7E64C4BFAFD0@thinkingcat.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_BE748EB7-07F0-44E0-8397-AC3CD8A1D089_=" Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[1526, 1206], "plain":[1019, 835], "uuid":"D45B89FD-2795-4C93-A943-0AA39108C456"}] X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrheelgdduheegucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffokfgjfhggtgfgsegrkehmreertdejnecuhfhrohhmpedfnfgvshhlihgvucffrghighhlvgdfuceolhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghloheplgduieelrddvheegrddugeegrddutddvngdpihhnvghtpedvudeirdeiiedruddtvddrkeefpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpedfnfgvshhlihgvucffrghighhlvgdfuceolhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomheplhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomhdpnhhrtghpthhtoheplhgurghighhlvgesthhhihhnkhhinhhgtggrthdrtghomh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Mops] So, what is streaming media, anyway? :-) X-BeenThere: mops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Media OPerationS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:21:52 -0000 --=_MailMate_BE748EB7-07F0-44E0-8397-AC3CD8A1D089_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Trying to see if we can sum up where we are at. I think we agree that these are in: 1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e.g., watching movies at=20 home), and 2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events - e.g., football matches,=20 presidential announcements I think we agree that these are out: 3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), video conferencing And we haven=E2=80=99t concluded on: 4/ cloud gaming I think the point to keep in mind for =E2=80=9C4/=E2=80=9C is that we had= the input=20 from Stadia because of the delivery of high-quality pre-developed video=20 as an integral part of the gaming experience. So, we=E2=80=99re not try= ing=20 to keep up with the full gamut of interactive gaming, but rather focus=20 on the degree to which it provides another case of shipping video over=20 the Internet where the video (quality) is the thing. (Video chat and=20 teleconferencing are, hopefully, about realtime interchange, not=20 pre-canned video). Thoughts? Leslie. On 21 Apr 2020, at 22:31, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Dear MOPS, > > We have an issue in > https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/ =20 > that > proposes a "low-latency" section in draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons,=20 > and > discussion on that PR is starting to poke at what I understood the=20 > limits > of MOPS scope to be, bringing in (checks notes) "RTMP, RTSP 2.0,=20 > WebRTC and > globally all kinds of RTP-based streaming techs", STADIA, and SRT as > possible topics. > > This is, I think, the kind of conversation that we should be having on=20 > the > working group mailing list ("when a topic is bigger than a=20 > conversation on > an issue in Github ought to be"). > > Could people take a look at > https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons/issues= /3, > and let the working group know your thoughts? > > Do The Right Thing, of course. > > Best, > > Spencer > --=20 > Mops mailing list > Mops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_MailMate_BE748EB7-07F0-44E0-8397-AC3CD8A1D089_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Trying to see if we can sum up where we are at.

I think we agree that these are in:
1/ On-demand streaming of pre-recorded media (e.g., watching movies a= t home), and
2/ Streaming/viewing (one way) of live events - e.g., football matche= s, presidential announcements

I think we agree that these are out:
3/ face-to-face video chat (or telephony), video conferencing

And we haven=E2=80=99t concluded on:
4/ cloud gaming

I think the point to keep in mind for =E2=80=9C4/=E2=80=9C= is that we had the input from Stadia because of the delivery of high-qua= lity pre-developed video as an integral part of the gaming experience. = So, we=E2=80=99re not trying to keep up with the full gamut of interactiv= e gaming, but rather focus on the degree to which it provides another cas= e of shipping video over the Internet where the video (quality) is the th= ing. (Video chat and teleconferencing are, hopefully, about realtime int= erchange, not pre-canned video).

Thoughts?

Leslie.

On 21 Apr 2020, at 22:31, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:<= /p>

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Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises

ldaigle@thinkingcat.com

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