From luby@qualcomm.com Mon Jan 24 11:39:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C613A6B1F for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:39:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9h2x+ncyiWY for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2929E3A694A for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:39:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=luby@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1295898139; x=1327434139; h=from:to:cc:date:subject:thread-topic:thread-index: message-id:accept-language:content-language: x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator:user-agent: acceptlanguage:content-type:mime-version; z=From:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20|To:=20"r mt@ietf.org"=20|CC:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20< luby@qualcomm.com>,=20"Gillies,=20Don"=0D=0A=09|Date:=20Mon,=2024=20Jan=202011=2011:42:16 =20-0800|Subject:=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic:=20FLUT E=20revision|Thread-Index:=20Acu7/s3bu02S0/6jkUWpHOn8pWpp tA=3D=3D|Message-ID:=20 |Accept-Language:=20en-US|Content-Language:=20en-US |X-MS-Has-Attach:|X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|user-agent:=20Mic rosoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117|acceptlanguage:=20en-US |Content-Type:=20multipart/alternative=3B=0D=0A=09boundar y=3D"_000_C96316188895lubyqualcommcom_"|MIME-Version:=201 .0; bh=/7PCJfMOc0/mgXVLdkONjHtvuAdRO7+F/nOaV9rF3MU=; b=b3jJ1zC4uBp9OFp8F9zowFL70ztp9+8uGOGmoKbk3eo9dTGoIHbr8vMH mbbGTD3qsba0gwU4Dk4b6pomWP8Spi6zacjvXSRy6lK7r/G8q0o4hmlJH Pj3467EH7zqhIAUS16Os2G7+60lufZvKOXkOvfR7oQZspCWl/Q7EMSqqh c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6236"; a="71578615" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 24 Jan 2011 11:42:19 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,370,1291622400"; d="scan'208,217";a="112253474" Received: from nasanexhub05.na.qualcomm.com ([129.46.134.219]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 24 Jan 2011 11:42:19 -0800 Received: from nasclexhc01.na.qualcomm.com (10.227.147.14) by nasanexhub05.na.qualcomm.com (129.46.134.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.83.0; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:42:19 -0800 Received: from NASCLEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.144.113]) by nasclexhc01.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.147.14]) with mapi; Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:42:18 -0800 From: "Luby, Michael" To: "rmt@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:42:16 -0800 Thread-Topic: FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu7/s3bu02S0/6jkUWpHOn8pWpptA== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C96316188895lubyqualcommcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Gillies, Don" , "Luby, Michael" Subject: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:39:25 -0000 --_000_C96316188895lubyqualcommcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =9611, to produce FLUT= E =9612, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number will t= ransition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT instance h= ave a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing the FDT Insta= nce ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI =3D 0 for carrying F= DT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text here and there that= might be construed to suggest otherwise. Mike --_000_C96316188895lubyqualcommcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FLUTE revision Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =9611, to produc= e FLUTE =9612, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number = will transition from 1 to 2.  One question that has arisen: Can an FDT= instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing= the FDT Instance ID?  I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = =3D 0 for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text= here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise.
Mike  
--_000_C96316188895lubyqualcommcom_-- From Rod.Walsh@nokia.com Tue Jan 25 00:35:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98073A6964 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:35:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRAcPpgtSYyg for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-da02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.128.26]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A983A6B85 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh102.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.23]) by mgw-da02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p0P8basJ022199; 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Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:48:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SHNGUy557mzD for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi (mail.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A303A6B81 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0674912AF; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:51:08 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18034-38; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:51:07 +0200 (EET) Received: from [130.230.89.61] (vpn-51.vpn.tut.fi [130.230.89.61]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D052812AD; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:51:06 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4D3E8EFB.8000307@tut.fi> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:51:07 +0200 From: Jani Peltotalo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; fi; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rmt@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.2 Cc: dgillies@qualcomm.com, luby@qualcomm.com Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:48:13 -0000 Dear RMTers, One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) version number is specified to be 1. So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in the same header field. BR, Jani > Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE 11, to produce > FLUTE 12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number > will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT > instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing > the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = 0 > for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text > here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. > Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rmt mailing list > Rmt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt From dgillies@qualcomm.com Tue Jan 25 11:29:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80283A6853 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:29:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JOqPBbvxfpoN for ; 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([fe80::c0c6:d0ab:610c:4263]) by nasanexhc05.na.qualcomm.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0218.012; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:32:44 -0800 From: "Gillies, Don" To: "Rod.Walsh@nokia.com" , "Luby, Michael" Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu7/s3bu02S0/6jkUWpHOn8pWpptAAr4AyAAAW9ToA= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:32:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.30.48.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C6B80B17C44541438510B42A18D01B7A04D1A2nasanexd01gnaqual_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Luby, Michael" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:29:47 -0000 --_000_C6B80B17C44541438510B42A18D01B7A04D1A2nasanexd01gnaqual_ Content-Type: 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188YnI+DQpSbXQg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0PGJyPg0KPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOlJtdEBpZXRmLm9yZyI+Um10QGlldGYu b3JnPC9hPjxicj4NCjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vcm10Ij5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3JtdDwvYT48bzpw PjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0 bWw+DQo= --_000_C6B80B17C44541438510B42A18D01B7A04D1A2nasanexd01gnaqual_-- From luby@qualcomm.com Tue Jan 25 16:40:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E523A68F5 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:40:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UnSCukVHsKYR for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D21833A68B8 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:40:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=luby@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1296002591; x=1327538591; h=from:to:cc:date:subject:thread-topic:thread-index: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language: x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator:user-agent: acceptlanguage:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; z=From:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20|To:=20"J ani.=20Fi"=20,=20"rmt@ietf.org"=20 |CC:=20"Gillies,=20Don"=20,=20"Luby,=20Michael"=0D=0A=09 |Date:=20Tue,=2025=20Jan=202011=2016:43:08=20-0800 |Subject:=20Re:=20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic: =20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Index:=20Acu8bQUkgfl33 6CfQX6/n2AZ/OMpFQAhPr1k|Message-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20<4D3E8EFB.8000307@tut.fi> |Accept-Language:=20en-US|Content-Language:=20en-US |X-MS-Has-Attach:|X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|user-agent:=20Mic rosoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117|acceptlanguage:=20en-US |Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3D"iso-8859-1" |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=HV9wHx3EE435nEvlfeHP6DG0MPQPkzHAfL4RSSrVHtw=; b=BzTN97OicGTm4ZMgWlfhtLfX2zbifqpV5p9MKMLSsbSKx86bcE54+dAN AuxQ1OiZ0HTlEfF97TW6UXajKgtEBq+LPEXAyuitWsKDobb0WykvPj8uh TZvZrUCYtOp8/72nJjHm0Ihog0fUmQFLRTAsx+h+7CH66Oh6h8VK5f8fy 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6237"; a="71764865" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 25 Jan 2011 16:43:10 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,374,1291622400"; d="scan'208";a="24846170" Received: from nasanexhub04.qualcomm.com (HELO nasanexhub04.na.qualcomm.com) ([129.46.134.222]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 25 Jan 2011 16:43:10 -0800 Received: from nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com (10.227.147.13) by nasanexhub04.na.qualcomm.com (129.46.134.222) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.83.0; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:43:10 -0800 Received: from NASCLEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.144.113]) by nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.147.13]) with mapi; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:43:07 -0800 From: "Luby, Michael" To: "Jani. Fi" , "rmt@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:43:08 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu8bQUkgfl336CfQX6/n2AZ/OMpFQAhPr1k Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D3E8EFB.8000307@tut.fi> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Gillies, Don" , "Luby, Michael" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:40:13 -0000 Hi Jani, I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be use= d with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but mayb= e I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version an= d the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? Mike On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: > Dear RMTers, >=20 > One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT > versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in > RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) > version number is specified to be 1. >=20 > So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in > the same header field. >=20 > BR, > Jani >=20 >> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =AD11, to produce >> FLUTE =AD12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number >> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing >> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI =3D = 0 >> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >> Mike =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rmt mailing list >> Rmt@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt From jani.peltotalo@tut.fi Tue Jan 25 23:00:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240DD28C0CE for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:00:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6B+6jhsW6Jf for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi (mail.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39F53A694D for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:00:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from amavis1.cs.tut.fi (amavis1.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.69]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E5B157A; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:03:06 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by amavis1.cs.tut.fi (amavis1.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.69]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21689-26; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:03:05 +0200 (EET) Received: from [130.230.52.207] (icepc023.atm.tut.fi [130.230.52.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BF71579; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:03:05 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:02:57 +0200 From: Jani Peltotalo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Luby, Michael" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.2 Cc: "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:00:11 -0000 Hi Mike, Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version number (V) field: LCT version number (V): 4 bits Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this specification is 1. In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE version number (as we have done in our implementation based in experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. BR, Jani > Hi Jani, > I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of > ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE > version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be used > with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with > LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but maybe > I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an > overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version and > the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? > Mike > > > On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: > >> Dear RMTers, >> >> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT >> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) >> version number is specified to be 1. >> >> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in >> the same header field. >> >> BR, >> Jani >> >>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE 11, to produce >>> FLUTE 12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number >>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing >>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = 0 >>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rmt mailing list >>> Rmt@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > From dgillies@qualcomm.com Tue Jan 25 23:28:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0A23A6946 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:28:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WsgpJHnqY3YK for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F883A6939 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:28:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=dgillies@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1296027098; x=1327563098; h=from:to:subject:thread-topic:thread-index:date: message-id:references:in-reply-to:accept-language: content-language:x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator: x-originating-ip:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; z=From:=20"Gillies,=20Don"=20|To: =20"rmt@ietf.org"=20|Subject:=20RE:=20[Rmt] =20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic:=20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revis ion|Thread-Index:=20Acu7/s3bu02S0/6jkUWpHOn8pWpptAAsUGeAA CE/sQAADUPTgAAP619Q|Date:=20Wed,=2026=20Jan=202011=2007:3 1:37=20+0000|Message-ID:=20|References:=20=20<4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> |In-Reply-To:=20<4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> |Accept-Language:=20en-US|Content-Language:=20en-US |X-MS-Has-Attach:|X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|x-originating-ip: =20[172.30.39.5]|Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset =3D"us-ascii"|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printab le|MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=nmHUK9u+4fguxwvMlXeKjCBKy9CkxPdb8oeZfMHiCwo=; b=T1rsUUvdhWXiPN0N0bBv5g22zPeVkdAA/EnIMl9fey+ZkLOS4aIwG2Hx XIDEDIBeen8efsO0L12whxIrf6GcNX7uwExWAHWK2Zb9t/Pc2WLv9YqJL AX1YKR7Sm8RGkW8ZE7DQCLQJRsRhcoc5SAAeQ2vEWVW0YnPhLmEjiOOjw s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6237"; a="72016387" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 25 Jan 2011 23:31:38 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,378,1291622400"; d="scan'208";a="24930643" Received: from nasanexhc05.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.2]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 25 Jan 2011 23:31:38 -0800 Received: from NASANEXD01G.na.qualcomm.com ([fe80::c0c6:d0ab:610c:4263]) by nasanexhc05.na.qualcomm.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0218.012; Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:31:38 -0800 From: "Gillies, Don" To: "rmt@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu7/s3bu02S0/6jkUWpHOn8pWpptAAsUGeAACE/sQAADUPTgAAP619Q Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:31:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> In-Reply-To: <4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.30.39.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:28:41 -0000 I had one more question about FLUTE FDTs after reading the r12 FLUTE spec. Is it required that the FDT have a table entry for the FDT itself (i.e. sho= uld the FDT be self-describing?) So for a typical flute session does TOI=3D0 have = to appear in the table of attributes? I could not tell if the FDT had to reference itself. Since only TOI and UR= I are=20 required for a file in the FDT, it seems useful to me to have the URI in ca= se I wanted to fetch the latest version of an FDT via unicast. - Don Gillies Qualcomm Incorporated From luby@qualcomm.com Wed Jan 26 00:30:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22ED23A6967 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:30:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.569 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.569 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eiVVwNrcQsWZ for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83DAD3A6958 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:30:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=luby@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1296030810; x=1327566810; h=from:to:cc:date:subject:thread-topic:thread-index: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language: x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator:user-agent: acceptlanguage:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; z=From:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20|To:=20"J ani.=20Fi"=20|CC:=20"rmt@ietf.org" =20,=20"Gillies,=20Don"=20,=0D=0A=09"Luby,=20Michael"=20 |Date:=20Wed,=2026=20Jan=202011=2000:33:27=20-0800 |Subject:=20Re:=20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic: =20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Index:=20Acu9Jxf0r45I4 3ZsQquxIjnPHDPykQADJv7+|Message-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20<4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> |Accept-Language:=20en-US|Content-Language:=20en-US |X-MS-Has-Attach:|X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|user-agent:=20Mic rosoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117|acceptlanguage:=20en-US |Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3D"iso-8859-1" |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=M7waXelAVLU0dN6ZkSKqDOVMn/0dsrY47o2g8CmWGFg=; b=StPN5ovN62MhSchRVanA7cn/4PFHafqmk3vfjMM/iwEwGPY2CF20hvm9 b9KMSd2+/36QnjU6P4yVyNnr3zZazetfFxIjslESx46KiRcRCAAsCfhZT 9w0bwACvOWqpjaDYTw9i8gjocL7XyphjocSKXlDRYUpXtszAEgDTwAV5H Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6237"; a="71806642" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2011 00:33:30 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,378,1291622400"; d="scan'208";a="112614849" Received: from nasanexhub05.na.qualcomm.com ([129.46.134.219]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 26 Jan 2011 00:33:30 -0800 Received: from nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com (10.227.147.13) by nasanexhub05.na.qualcomm.com (129.46.134.219) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.83.0; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:33:30 -0800 Received: from NASCLEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.144.113]) by nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.147.13]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:33:28 -0800 From: "Luby, Michael" To: "Jani. Fi" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:33:27 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu9Jxf0r45I43ZsQquxIjnPHDPykQADJv7+ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D3FC721.3070807@tut.fi> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Luby, Michael" , "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:30:32 -0000 Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at this= . The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE draf= t that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). However, we'll look at it more closely. Best, Mike On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: > Hi Mike, >=20 > Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However > in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version > number (V) field: >=20 > LCT version number (V): 4 bits >=20 > Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this > specification is 1. >=20 > In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >=20 > "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version > number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version > number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of > the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >=20 > This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from > the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE > version number (as we have done in our implementation based in > experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 > and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >=20 > It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and > use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE > version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE > version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with > the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >=20 > BR, > Jani >=20 >> Hi Jani, >> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version o= f >> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE >> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be = used >> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used wit= h >> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but m= aybe >> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an >> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version= and >> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >> Mike >>=20 >>=20 >> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>=20 >>> Dear RMTers, >>>=20 >>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LC= T >>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) >>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>=20 >>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 i= n >>> the same header field. >>>=20 >>> BR, >>> Jani >>>=20 >>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =AD11, to produce >>>> FLUTE =AD12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version numb= er >>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >>>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containin= g >>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = =3D 0 >>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>> Mike =20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rmt mailing list >>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt >>=20 From luby@qualcomm.com Wed Jan 26 00:41:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A227E3A6958 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:41:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1sy05J4rbUsm for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:41:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEA53A690E for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:41:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=luby@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1296031473; x=1327567473; h=from:to:cc:date:subject:thread-topic:thread-index: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language: x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator:user-agent: acceptlanguage:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; z=From:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20|To:=20"J ani.=20Fi"=20|CC:=20"rmt@ietf.org" =20,=20"Gillies,=20Don"=20,=0D=0A=09"Luby,=20Michael"=20 |Date:=20Wed,=2026=20Jan=202011=2000:44:30=20-0800 |Subject:=20Re:=20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic: =20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Index:=20Acu9Jxf0r45I4 3ZsQquxIjnPHDPykQADJv7+AABizFM=3D|Message-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20|Accept-Language:=20en-US |Content-Language:=20en-US|X-MS-Has-Attach: |X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|user-agent:=20Microsoft-Entourage/ 13.8.0.101117|acceptlanguage:=20en-US|Content-Type:=20tex t/plain=3B=20charset=3D"iso-8859-1" |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=rXnQ6WDMUojCUfnyDA3E4SU3YZv6irLh5QtdL8/3ZQQ=; b=TlqmSV4kcCm7Z0KgwtJYXFK777ZjsXGTih/6yEUsAUYDBCMGf2/0QmMV tJLZ6b6C9sKJI9wv19YGX4gQfTEH8VkMotv9t04Z5FmnA5hw6W7BquW9P MVYIGcPF7ioYL8WPnX4nnjLOEuoymghg8ZtaO5h9b+m8tFDTaL0qNmQuj U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6237"; a="71807402" Received: from ironmsg02-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.16]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2011 00:44:33 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,378,1291622400"; d="scan'208";a="112616347" Received: from nasanexhc08.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.39.7]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 26 Jan 2011 00:44:33 -0800 Received: from nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com (10.227.147.13) by nasanexhc08.na.qualcomm.com (172.30.39.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.218.12; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:44:33 -0800 Received: from NASCLEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.144.113]) by nasclexhc02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.147.13]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:44:32 -0800 From: "Luby, Michael" To: "Jani. Fi" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 00:44:30 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu9Jxf0r45I43ZsQquxIjnPHDPykQADJv7+AABizFM= Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Luby, Michael" , "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:41:34 -0000 Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where the FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, whic= h is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC version number, which is 1. Comments on this? On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: > Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at th= is. > The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE dr= aft > that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the > FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). > However, we'll look at it more closely. > Best, Mike >=20 >=20 > On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >=20 >> Hi Mike, >>=20 >> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However >> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >> number (V) field: >>=20 >> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>=20 >> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >> specification is 1. >>=20 >> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>=20 >> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version >> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>=20 >> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>=20 >> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and >> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with >> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>=20 >> BR, >> Jani >>=20 >>> Hi Jani, >>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version = of >>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE >>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be= used >>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used wi= th >>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but = maybe >>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an >>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC versio= n and >>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>> Mike >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>=20 >>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and L= CT >>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs= ) >>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>=20 >>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 = in >>>> the same header field. >>>>=20 >>>> BR, >>>> Jani >>>>=20 >>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =AD11, to produc= e >>>>> FLUTE =AD12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version num= ber >>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FD= T >>>>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containi= ng >>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = =3D 0 >>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>> Mike =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt >>>=20 >=20 From jani.peltotalo@tut.fi Wed Jan 26 01:17:28 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE4F3A68D7 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 01:17:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LW133x6BqT7Y for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 01:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi (mail.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708E93A695B for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 01:17:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31524C5D; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:20:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23173-14-2; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:20:24 +0200 (EET) Received: from [130.230.210.81] (hopeahanhikki.tst.cs.tut.fi [130.230.210.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E41C5B; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:20:24 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:20:23 +0200 From: Jani Peltotalo User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Luby, Michael" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.2 Cc: "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:17:28 -0000 Hi Mike&all, Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers, which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is not received early enough. BR, Jani > Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where the > FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, which > is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a > FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it > seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC > version number, which is 1. Comments on this? > > > On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: > >> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at this. >> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE draft >> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the >> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). >> However, we'll look at it more closely. >> Best, Mike >> >> >> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However >>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >>> number (V) field: >>> >>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>> >>> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >>> specification is 1. >>> >>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>> >>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version >>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>> >>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>> >>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and >>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with >>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>> >>> BR, >>> Jani >>> >>>> Hi Jani, >>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of >>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE >>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be used >>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with >>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but maybe >>>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an >>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version and >>>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>> >>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT >>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) >>>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>> >>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in >>>>> the same header field. >>>>> >>>>> BR, >>>>> Jani >>>>> >>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE 11, to produce >>>>>> FLUTE 12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number >>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >>>>>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing >>>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = 0 >>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > From vincent.roca@inrialpes.fr Wed Jan 26 03:08:29 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4689D3A69A4 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 03:08:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.905 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.905 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.256, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tlifarJqG17o for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 03:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E4E3A69A2 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 03:08:22 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,379,1291590000"; d="scan'208";a="96761968" Received: from demeter.inrialpes.fr ([194.199.24.102]) by mail1-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 26 Jan 2011 12:11:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4D400159.9000004@inrialpes.fr> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:11:21 +0100 From: Vincent Roca User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; fr; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rmt@ietf.org References: <4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> In-Reply-To: <4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:08:29 -0000 Hello everybody, I have two main comments: 1- I am extremely surprised to see people say that TOIs > 0 is possible for FDTs, as if it was obvious. That's the contrary IMHO. For instance section 3.3 of draft-ietf-rmt-flute-revised-11 says: * The TOI value of '0' MUST be reserved for delivery of FDT Instances. The use of other TOI values for FDT Instances is outside the scope of this specification. There are other sentences that only refer to value 0. For instance, beginning of Section 3.4: "FDT Instances are carried in ALC packets with TOI = 0..." and Figure 1 explicitely mentions TOI = 0. I understand that saying that "TOI 0 MUST be for FDT" is not the same as saying "FDT MUST use TOI 0". However the current specification does not explicitly say that other values must be considered. It only says that is is "out of the scope of this specification" which is different. Said differently, even if I'm co-author and FLUTE/ALC implementer, I never ever realized that the definite test to determine if an incoming packet contains an FDT Instance is the presence of the EXT_FDT rather than TOI=0. So I see a high risk of non-inter operable FLUTE implementations here if we don't clarify in the text the direction we want to choose. BTW, clarifying this point is also a good incentive to move to a version 2! 2- Let's assume we accept TOI > 0 for FDT Instances. If **all** FDT Instances are sent on TOI > 0, a FLUTEv1 receiver that drops such packets (high probability) will never consider any EXT_FDT. Since the FLUTE version number is carried in EXT_FDT only, this receiver has no way to identify that it is a FLUTEv2 session. He will wait forever an FDT Instance on TOI 0. So we need to mandate that, from time to time, a packet containing an EXT_FDT be sent on TOI 0. I'm not sure, but it's may be possible to send an empty FDT Instance to that purpose (e.g. if the senders wants to avoid having to send the same FDT Instance on multiple TOIs) (TBC). Cheers, Vincent > Hi Mike&all, > > Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE > session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers, > which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is > not received early enough. > > BR, > Jani >> Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where the >> FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, which >> is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a >> FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it >> seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC >> version number, which is 1. Comments on this? >> >> >> On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: >> >>> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at this. >>> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE draft >>> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the >>> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). >>> However, we'll look at it more closely. >>> Best, Mike >>> >>> >>> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However >>>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >>>> number (V) field: >>>> >>>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>>> >>>> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >>>> specification is 1. >>>> >>>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>>> >>>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version >>>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >>>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >>>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>>> >>>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >>>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >>>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >>>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >>>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>>> >>>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and >>>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >>>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >>>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with >>>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>>> >>>> BR, >>>> Jani >>>> >>>>> Hi Jani, >>>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of >>>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE >>>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be used >>>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with >>>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but maybe >>>>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an >>>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version and >>>>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>>> >>>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT >>>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) >>>>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>>> >>>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in >>>>>> the same header field. >>>>>> >>>>>> BR, >>>>>> Jani >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE 11, to produce >>>>>>> FLUTE 12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number >>>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >>>>>>> instance have a TOI> 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing >>>>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = 0 >>>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > _______________________________________________ > Rmt mailing list > Rmt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt From Rod.Walsh@nokia.com Wed Jan 26 05:28:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D2683A69B3 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 05:28:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBYmnAR-TE-6 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 05:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-sa02.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [147.243.1.48]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F613A699E for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 05:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh106.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.32]) by mgw-sa02.nokia.com (Switch-3.4.3/Switch-3.4.3) with ESMTP id p0QDVcxe014752; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:31:40 +0200 Received: from smtp.mgd.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) by vaebh106.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:31:08 +0200 Received: from NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.106]) by nok-am1mhub-02.mgdnok.nokia.com ([65.54.30.6]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:31:07 +0100 From: To: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:31:05 +0100 Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu9XUmNeplJsmMtRhSvASrsBOid4w== Message-ID: <4D402219.2010907@nokia.com> References: <4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> <4D400159.9000004@inrialpes.fr> In-Reply-To: <4D400159.9000004@inrialpes.fr> Accept-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4D4022192010907nokiacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jan 2011 13:31:08.0338 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A1F8920:01CBBD5D] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: rmt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:28:43 -0000 --_000_4D4022192010907nokiacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Vincent et al. The discussion on multi-TOI FDT use is so historic that my memory is patchy= . It was about the same time as the discussion that, unlike ALC, FLUTE sess= ion signalling doesn't have to indicate that it contains an object because = it will always contain at least one FDT instance on TOI0. Also about the sa= me time as the first discussion that an IANA mimetype for the FDT instances= would be a good idea so FDT parsing had an easy way to detect non-TOI0 FDT= s. Why IANA registration was not included in the existing FLUTE RFC is beyo= nd my recall right now. (I remember we became preoccupied with security cor= ner cases to ensure RFC Editor success, so maybe we were distracted?) The current spec text "beyond the scope" is a pseudonym for "clients are no= t required to parse" to provide minimum interoperability, much the same as = the allowing extensions to the FDT XML without spec'ing them. Of course, there is nuanced sementic difference between "an FDT instance on= TOI!=3D0 contributing, possibly redundantly, to the session control inform= ation" and "a file of FDT mimetype on TOI!=3D0 relevant to some 'out of sco= pe' higher layer application but not contributing to the control informatio= n of the current session". And this could cause an IOP issue (although an F= DT attribute addition would fix that without breaking IOP). Clarifying text= on this wouldn't harm providing we haven't inadvertently sent implementers= in two different directions already. On the subject of version number, I am still very confused. No one has yet = offered a compelling reason for changing it. The headers don't break things= (at least the same version LCT/ALC changes are rolled into FLUTE and obvio= usly shouldn't prompt a flute version increment either). The reason to revi= se the FDT schema hasn't yet been explained. SDOs using the existing flute = will be hurt (or possibly the extra effort performed in the IETF will be re= ndered insignificant/obsolete where the deploying community consensus rejec= ts the change). So why? BTW, the revised FDT schema modifies effective functionality in two ways: i= t allows multiple FDT Instances per FDT Instance (I assume this is an error= ); it allows extensibility by elements as well as by attributes (sounds lik= e a "nice to have" but the gain is considerably less than the SDO disharmon= y pain). (Incidentally, both schema allow from zero file elements per FDT i= nstance, so "empty FDT Instances" are permitted). Cheers, Rod. PS I thought our primary goal with the RMT standards track revisions was to= preserve interoperability and avoid trashing the considerable amount of wo= rk that went into aligning so many SDOs behind a common IETF approach, so i= nteroperability preservation ought to be our default approach to spec text = modifications. On 26/01/2011 13:11, ext Vincent Roca wrote: Hello everybody, I have two main comments: 1- I am extremely surprised to see people say that TOIs > 0 is possible for FDTs, as if it was obvious. That's the contrary IMHO. For instance section 3.3 of draft-ietf-rmt-flute-revised-11 says: * The TOI value of '0' MUST be reserved for delivery of FDT Instances. The use of other TOI values for FDT Instances is outside the scope of this specification. There are other sentences that only refer to value 0. For instance, beginning of Section 3.4: "FDT Instances are carried in ALC packets with TOI =3D 0..." and Figure 1 explicitely mentions TOI =3D 0. I understand that saying that "TOI 0 MUST be for FDT" is not the same as saying "FDT MUST use TOI 0". However the current specification does not explicitly say that other values must be considered. It only says that is is "out of the scope of this specification" which is different. Said differently, even if I'm co-author and FLUTE/ALC implementer, I never ever realized that the definite test to determine if an incoming packet contains an FDT Instance is the presence of the EXT_FDT rather than TOI=3D0. So I see a high risk of non-inter operable FLUTE implementations here if we don't clarify in the text the direction we want to choose. BTW, clarifying this point is also a good incentive to move to a version 2! 2- Let's assume we accept TOI > 0 for FDT Instances. If **all** FDT Instances are sent on TOI > 0, a FLUTEv1 receiver that drops such packets (high probability) will never consider any EXT_FDT. Since the FLUTE version number is carried in EXT_FDT only, this receiver has no way to identify that it is a FLUTEv2 session. He will wait forever an FDT Instance on TOI 0. So we need to mandate that, from time to time, a packet containing an EXT_FDT be sent on TOI 0. I'm not sure, but it's may be possible to send an empty FDT Instance to that purpose (e.g. if the senders wants to avoid having to send the same FDT Instance on multiple TOIs) (TBC). Cheers, Vincent > Hi Mike&all, > > Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE > session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers, > which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is > not received early enough. > > BR, > Jani >> Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where t= he >> FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, w= hich >> is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a >> FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it >> seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC >> version number, which is 1. Comments on this? >> >> >> On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: >> >>> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at = this. >>> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE = draft >>> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as th= e >>> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). >>> However, we'll look at it more closely. >>> Best, Mike >>> >>> >>> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. Howeve= r >>>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >>>> number (V) field: >>>> >>>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>>> >>>> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >>>> specification is 1. >>>> >>>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>>> >>>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The versio= n >>>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >>>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >>>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>>> >>>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >>>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >>>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >>>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >>>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>>> >>>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers an= d >>>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >>>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >>>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible wit= h >>>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>>> >>>> BR, >>>> Jani >>>> >>>>> Hi Jani, >>>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the versio= n of >>>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUT= E >>>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must = be used >>>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used = with >>>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, bu= t maybe >>>>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is = an >>>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC vers= ion and >>>>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>>> >>>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and= LCT >>>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RF= Cs) >>>>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>>> >>>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version = 1 in >>>>>> the same header field. >>>>>> >>>>>> BR, >>>>>> Jani >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =AD11, to prod= uce >>>>>>> FLUTE =AD12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version n= umber >>>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an = FDT >>>>>>> instance have a TOI> 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header contai= ning >>>>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI= =3D 0 >>>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the te= xt >>>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > _______________________________________________ > Rmt mailing list > Rmt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt _______________________________________________ Rmt mailing list Rmt@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt --_000_4D4022192010907nokiacom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hi Vincent et al.

The discussion on multi-TOI FDT use is so historic that my memory is patchy. It was about the same time as the discussion that, unlike ALC, FLUTE session signalling doesn't have to indicate that it contains an object because it will always contain at least one FDT instance on TOI0. Also about the same time as the first discussion that an IANA mimetype for the FDT instances would be a good idea so FDT parsing had an easy way to detect non-TOI0 FDTs. Why IANA registration was not included in the existing FLUTE RFC is beyond my recall right now. (I remember we became preoccupied with security corner cases to ensure RFC Editor success, so maybe we were distracted?)

The current spec text "beyond the scope" is a pseudonym for "clients are not required to parse" to provide minimum interoperability, much the same as the allowing extensions to the FDT XML without spec'ing them.

Of course, there is nuanced sementic difference between "an FDT instance on TOI!=3D0 contributing, possibly redundantly, to the session control information" and "a file of FDT mimetype on TOI!=3D0 relevant to some 'out of scope' higher layer application but not contributing to the control information of the current session". And this could cause an IOP issue (although an FDT attribute addition would fix that without breaking IOP). Clarifying text on this wouldn't harm providing we haven't inadvertently sent implementers in two different directions already.

On the subject of version number, I am still very confused. No one has yet offered a compelling reason for changing it. The headers don't break things (at least the same version LCT/ALC changes are rolled into FLUTE and obviously shouldn't prompt a flute version increment either). The reason to revise the FDT schema hasn't yet been explained. SDOs using the existing flute will be hurt (or possibly the extra effort performed in the IETF will be rendered insignificant/obsolete where the deploying community consensus rejects the change). So why?

BTW, the revised FDT schema modifies effective functionality in two ways: it allows multiple FDT Instances per FDT Instance (I assume this is an error); it allows extensibility by elements as well as by attributes (sounds like a "nice to have" but the gain is considerably less than the SDO disharmony pain). (Incidentally, both schema allow from zero file elements per FDT instance, so "empty FDT Instances" are permitted).

Cheers, Rod.

PS I thought our primary goal with the RMT standards track revisions was to preserve interoperability and avoid trashing the considerable amount of work that went into aligning so many SDOs behind a common IETF approach, so interoperability preservation ought to be our default approach to spec text modifications.



On 26/01/2011 13:11, ext Vincent Roca wrote:
Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision

Hello everybody,

I have two main comments:

1- I am extremely surprised to see people say that
TOIs > 0 is possible for FDTs, as if it was obvious.
That's the contrary IMHO. For instance section 3.3 of
draft-ietf-rmt-flute-revised-11 says:

    *  The TOI value of '0' MUST be reserved = for delivery of FDT
       Instances.  The use of = other TOI values for FDT Instances is
       outside the scope of this sp= ecification.

There are other sentences that only refer to value 0.
For instance, beginning of Section 3.4:
      "FDT Instances are carried in ALC = packets with TOI =3D 0..."
and Figure 1 explicitely mentions TOI =3D 0.

I understand that saying that "TOI 0 MUST be for FDT" is
not the same as saying "FDT MUST use TOI 0". However
the current specification does not explicitly say that other
values must be considered. It only says that is is "out of
the scope of this specification" which is different.

Said differently, even if I'm co-author and FLUTE/ALC
implementer, I never ever realized that the definite test
to determine if an incoming packet contains an FDT
Instance is the presence of the EXT_FDT rather than
TOI=3D0.

So I see a high risk of non-inter operable FLUTE
implementations here if we don't clarify in the text the
direction we want to choose.

BTW, clarifying this point is also a good incentive to move
to a version 2!


2- Let's assume we accept TOI > 0 for FDT Instances.
If **all** FDT Instances are sent on TOI > 0, a FLUTEv1
receiver that drops such packets (high probability) will never consider any EXT_FDT. Since the FLUTE version number is
  carried in EXT_FDT only, this receiver has no way to
identify that it is a FLUTEv2 session. He will wait forever
an FDT Instance on TOI 0.

So we need to mandate that, from time to time, a packet
containing an EXT_FDT be sent on TOI 0.
I'm not sure, but it's may be possible to send an empty
FDT Instance to that purpose (e.g. if the senders wants to
avoid having to send the same FDT Instance on multiple
TOIs) (TBC).

Cheers,

    Vincent

> Hi Mike&all,
>
> Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE
> session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers,
> which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is
> not received early enough.
>
> BR,
> Jani
>> Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where the
>> FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, which
>> is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a
>> FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2.  If thi= s is correct, then it
>> seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC
>> version number, which is 1.  Comments on this?
>>
>>
>> On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael"<luby@qualcomm.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at this.
>>> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE draft
>>> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the
>>> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT).
>>> However, we'll look at it more closely.
>>> Best, Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi"<jani.peltotalo@tut.fi>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>
>>>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However
>>>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version
>>>> number (V) field:
>>>>
>>>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits
>>>>
>>>> Indicates the LCT version number.  The LCT version number for this
>>>> specification is 1.
>>>>
>>>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned:
>>>>
>>>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version
>>>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version
>>>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of
>>>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]."
>>>>
>>>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from
>>>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE
>>>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in
>>>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1
>>>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs.
>>>>
>>>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and
>>>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE
>>>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE
>>>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with
>>>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC.
>>>>
>>>> BR,
>>>> Jani
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jani,
>>>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of
>>>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE
>>>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be used
>>>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with
>>>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but maybe
>>>>> I'm missing something?  I think what yo= u are saying is that there is an
>>>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version and
>>>>> the LCT version?  If so, can you point = to that?
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi"<jani.peltotalo@tut.fi>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear RMTers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT
>>>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in
>>>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs)
>>>>>> version number is specified to be 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in
>>>>>> the same header field.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BR,
>>>>>> Jani
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE ­11, to produce
>>>>>>> FLUTE ­12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number
>>>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2.  O= ne question that has arisen: Can an FDT
>>>>>>> instance have a TOI>  0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing
>>>>>>> the FDT Instance ID?  I think i= t is and should be restricted to TOI =3D 0
>>>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text
>>>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise.
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Rmt mailing list
>>>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt
> _______________________________________________
> Rmt mailing list
> Rmt@ietf.org
> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt
_______________________________________________
Rmt mailing list
Rmt@ietf.org
https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt

= --_000_4D4022192010907nokiacom_-- From luby@qualcomm.com Wed Jan 26 09:01:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E043A6905 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:01:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.269 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.269 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id flamCeQ7V1zT for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87913A6800 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:01:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=luby@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1296061460; x=1327597460; h=from:to:cc:date:subject:thread-topic:thread-index: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language: x-ms-has-attach:x-ms-tnef-correlator:user-agent: acceptlanguage:content-type:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; z=From:=20"Luby,=20Michael"=20|To:=20"J ani.=20Fi"=20|CC:=20"rmt@ietf.org" =20,=20"Gillies,=20Don"=20,=0D=0A=09"Luby,=20Michael"=20 |Date:=20Wed,=2026=20Jan=202011=2009:04:17=20-0800 |Subject:=20Re:=20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Topic: =20[Rmt]=20FLUTE=20revision|Thread-Index:=20Acu9OkaMTVf7p ILoRoKIuPQcXclUAAAQMo3Z|Message-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20<4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> |Accept-Language:=20en-US|Content-Language:=20en-US |X-MS-Has-Attach:|X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:|user-agent:=20Mic rosoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117|acceptlanguage:=20en-US |Content-Type:=20text/plain=3B=20charset=3D"iso-8859-1" |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |MIME-Version:=201.0; bh=tg1dzT42MeGPe28M0C//LuMkuU7mBJMrZLEdS4j8f9E=; b=v146vjzIX1g9rLhO2sU/ULF+8UDniLaN6mV5B7g6EoJOZ8i0ChVXJGpk 0qopMKDkD26NFNpVafPeKpKlnlkwEag6rEFURGxbDc7lG7+C9nKnwU+YL W9o4SPxZ3zBtPIZUtey2figysi/LL4Hz19GOTfMDApBL55XpVlFSLXO95 A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6238"; a="71848831" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2011 09:04:19 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,380,1291622400"; d="scan'208";a="25150421" Received: from nasanexhub03.na.qualcomm.com ([10.46.93.98]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 26 Jan 2011 09:04:19 -0800 Received: from nasclexhc01.na.qualcomm.com (10.227.147.14) by nasanexhub03.na.qualcomm.com (10.46.93.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.83.0; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:04:19 -0800 Received: from NASCLEXMB02.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.144.113]) by nasclexhc01.na.qualcomm.com ([10.227.147.14]) with mapi; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:04:18 -0800 From: "Luby, Michael" To: "Jani. Fi" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:04:17 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Rmt] FLUTE revision Thread-Index: Acu9OkaMTVf7pILoRoKIuPQcXclUAAAQMo3Z Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4D3FE757.5060904@tut.fi> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.8.0.101117 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Luby, Michael" , "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:01:21 -0000 Hi Jani, I guess you are thinking that the FLUTE version 1 receivers might buffer data for files and then when they get the FDT that is for the new FLUTE spe= c the receivers realize that they don't support FLUTE version 2 and have to discard all of this data because they don't know what to do with it? If that is the concern, there is advice in the FLUTE specification that recommends that the FDT instances should be sent before the actual data for the file, and that FDTs should be sent with higher reliability than the fil= e data. There is stronger and clearer wording on this in the current FLUTE draft than in RFC 3926, but there is wording on this in the RFC 3926 as well, e.g.,"It is RECOMMENDED that FDT Instance that contains the file description entry for a file is sent prior to the sending of the described file within a file delivery session." Maybe I got this wrong? Best, Mike On 1/26/11 1:20 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: > Hi Mike&all, >=20 > Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE > session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers, > which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is > not received early enough. >=20 > BR, > Jani >> Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where t= he >> FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, w= hich >> is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a >> FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it >> seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC >> version number, which is 1. Comments on this? >>=20 >>=20 >> On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: >>=20 >>> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at = this. >>> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE = draft >>> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as th= e >>> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). >>> However, we'll look at it more closely. >>> Best, Mike >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi Mike, >>>>=20 >>>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. Howeve= r >>>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >>>> number (V) field: >>>>=20 >>>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>>>=20 >>>> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >>>> specification is 1. >>>>=20 >>>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>>>=20 >>>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The versio= n >>>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >>>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >>>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>>>=20 >>>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >>>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >>>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >>>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >>>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>>>=20 >>>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers an= d >>>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >>>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >>>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible wit= h >>>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>>>=20 >>>> BR, >>>> Jani >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Jani, >>>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the versio= n of >>>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUT= E >>>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must = be >>>>> used >>>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used = with >>>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, bu= t >>>>> maybe >>>>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is = an >>>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC vers= ion >>>>> and >>>>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>>>> Mike >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and= LCT >>>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RF= Cs) >>>>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version = 1 in >>>>>> the same header field. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> BR, >>>>>> Jani >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE =AD11, to prod= uce >>>>>>> FLUTE =AD12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version n= umber >>>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an = FDT >>>>>>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header contai= ning >>>>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI= =3D 0 >>>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the te= xt >>>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>>>> Mike =20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt >>=20 From ietfdbh@comcast.net Wed Jan 26 09:36:07 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93333A69BB for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.627 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.627 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f0md+tyQONcH for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AB93A69B9 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0Heg1g00A1zF43QABHf7tt; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:39:08 +0000 Received: from davidPC ([67.189.235.106]) by omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0Hf41g00o2JQnJT8kHf6vK; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:39:07 +0000 From: "David Harrington" To: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:38:44 -0500 Message-ID: <82907E2B03694680B9B26B5667506A5C@davidPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acu9f+DC/U8ei3EtRyy3t1WxpX8b3g== X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7600.16543 Subject: [Rmt] AD review: draft-ietf-rmt-bb-fec-raptorq-04 X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 17:36:07 -0000 Hi, I have reviewed this draft and have the follwoing comments: Technical and process concerns: 1) This document includes linear algebraic calculations, and I have not done linear algeabra since college, so I am asking for expert review. 2) in section 7, IANA actually performs assignments, not this document. This would be better rephrased as IANA is requested to assign a value under the ietf:rmt:fec: encoding name-space to "RaptorQ Code", preferably the value 6. Editorial: I found the English parts of this document well-written, but it might benefit from a few editorial changes. 1) In 4.4.1.2, the third paragraph starts with the statement that function partition takes input parameters I and J. But this text doesn't describe what those two values represent. The second sentnece decsribes the purpose of Partition. It would be easier on the reader to state the purpose before showing the processing. i.e., put the second and third sentences before the first sentence. 2) in 4.4.2, the text "Otherwise, only whole symbols MUST be included." (So if otherwise is false - the last block is NOT a partial block - then the requirement for whole blocks does not apply?) I think this is slightly ambiguous, and might be better stated as "Otherwise, the packet MUST contain only whole symbols" 3) in 5.1.1, LT is defined by self-reference. If somebody doesn't what LT menas, they probably don't what an LT neighbor is. 4) section 5 defines variables and functions that are used in earlier sections. It would seem to make sense to move section 5.1 forward so the definition preceded the usage, i.e prior to section 3. 5) section 5.2 talks about a pseudo-random generator. Is this consistent with other IETF uses of pseudo-random, e.g., in the SEC area? In SEC, there are serious consequences of random or pseudo-random numbers being predictable. Are there any serious consequences of these numbers being predictable? 6) in 5.3.3.3, a number of terms are used before being defined nearby: LDPC and HDPC and PI, for example. I recommend that on first use, it be treated as "Low Density Parity Check (LDPC)" 7) While terms like LDPC are defined in the terminolgy section, if a reader doesn't know what a Low Density Parity Check is, this definition is not helpful. I would be good if the terminology section had pointers to informative references. 8) in 5.3.3.3, "evaluate to zero" using what types of mechanisms? I recommend this section describe what readers are expected to know before reading this, such as a basic understanding of linear algebra. The recommendation could be in the Introduction if so desired. 9) in 5.3.3.4, s/inSection/in Section/ 10) in 5.4.2.1, s/in Sections Section 5.3/in Section 5.3/ -- check this 11) I had a bit of difficulty parsing the sentence "Furthermore, for each such encoding symbol it is assumed that the number and set of intermediate symbols whose sum is equal to the encoding symbol is passed to the decoder." If I parse it correcetly, should this be "the number and set ... are passed"? Why are you assuming? Is this not definitive? 12) in 5.8, s/generated generated/generated/ David Harrington Director, IETF Transport Area ietfdbh@comcast.net (preferred for ietf) dbharrington@huaweisymantec.com +1 603 828 1401 (cell) From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Wed Jan 26 15:16:59 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCEF428C0DE; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:16:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id USO5-WqCWUfK; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229063A68AF; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:16:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.10 Message-ID: <20110126231659.8099.31801.idtracker@localhost> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:16:59 -0800 Cc: rmt@ietf.org Subject: [Rmt] Last Call: (RaptorQ Forward Error Correction Scheme for Object Delivery) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:16:59 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Reliable Multicast Transport WG (rmt) to consider the following document: - 'RaptorQ Forward Error Correction Scheme for Object Delivery' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2011-02-09. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmt-bb-fec-raptorq/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmt-bb-fec-raptorq/ The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D: /ipr/615/ /ipr/618/ /ipr/702/ /ipr/734/ /ipr/1292/ From ietfdbh@comcast.net Wed Jan 26 15:38:03 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF873A68C0 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.625 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.625 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NPkCz9+16BfW for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.40]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98013A68BC for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0Pba1g0050EPchoA4Ph42A; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:41:04 +0000 Received: from davidPC ([67.189.235.106]) by omta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 0Ph21g00u2JQnJT8MPh32F; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:41:04 +0000 From: "David Harrington" To: "'David Harrington'" , References: <82907E2B03694680B9B26B5667506A5C@davidPC> In-Reply-To: <82907E2B03694680B9B26B5667506A5C@davidPC> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:40:41 -0500 Message-ID: <9B2A556E45CE499B999128559B9CDCAB@davidPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acu9f+DC/U8ei3EtRyy3t1WxpX8b3gAJ2VPQ X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7600.16543 Subject: Re: [Rmt] AD review: draft-ietf-rmt-bb-fec-raptorq-04 X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:38:04 -0000 Hi, The next step will be to start an IETF Last call on the document. I have started the LC On point #1, I am asking for a tsvdir volunteer to review the math portions. This is a process point that I will oversee. The WG needs do nothing on this point. The expert review can be done at the same time as IETF LC. For all the rest of my points, these are purely editorial changes. Save these editorial changes and treat them as LC comments. i.e., a new revision is not needed at this time. We will want a new revision after IETF LC to address these and other comments. dbh > -----Original Message----- > From: rmt-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rmt-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of David Harrington > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:39 PM > To: rmt@ietf.org > Subject: [Rmt] AD review: draft-ietf-rmt-bb-fec-raptorq-04 > > Hi, > > I have reviewed this draft and have the follwoing comments: > > Technical and process concerns: > 1) This document includes linear algebraic calculations, and I have > not done linear algeabra since college, so I am asking for expert > review. > 2) in section 7, IANA actually performs assignments, not this > document. This would be better rephrased as IANA is requested to > assign a value under the ietf:rmt:fec: encoding name-space to "RaptorQ > Code", preferably the value 6. > > Editorial: > I found the English parts of this document well-written, but it might > benefit from a few editorial changes. > 1) In 4.4.1.2, the third paragraph starts with the statement that > function partition takes input parameters I and J. But this text > doesn't describe what those two values represent. The second sentnece > decsribes the purpose of Partition. It would be easier on the reader > to state the purpose before showing the processing. i.e., put the > second and third sentences before the first sentence. > 2) in 4.4.2, the text "Otherwise, only whole symbols MUST be > included." (So if otherwise is false - the last block is NOT a partial > block - then the requirement for whole blocks does not apply?) I think > this is slightly ambiguous, and might be better stated as "Otherwise, > the packet MUST contain only whole symbols" > 3) in 5.1.1, LT is defined by self-reference. If somebody doesn't what > LT menas, they probably don't what an LT neighbor is. > 4) section 5 defines variables and functions that are used in earlier > sections. It would seem to make sense to move section 5.1 forward so > the definition preceded the usage, i.e prior to section 3. > 5) section 5.2 talks about a pseudo-random generator. Is this > consistent with other IETF uses of pseudo-random, e.g., in the SEC > area? In SEC, there are serious consequences of random or > pseudo-random numbers being predictable. Are there any serious > consequences of these numbers being predictable? > 6) in 5.3.3.3, a number of terms are used before being defined nearby: > LDPC and HDPC and PI, for example. I recommend that on first use, it > be treated as "Low Density Parity Check (LDPC)" > 7) While terms like LDPC are defined in the terminolgy section, if a > reader doesn't know what a Low Density Parity Check is, this > definition is not helpful. I would be good if the terminology section > had pointers to informative references. > 8) in 5.3.3.3, "evaluate to zero" using what types of mechanisms? I > recommend this section describe what readers are expected to know > before reading this, such as a basic understanding of linear algebra. > The recommendation could be in the Introduction if so desired. > 9) in 5.3.3.4, s/inSection/in Section/ > 10) in 5.4.2.1, s/in Sections Section 5.3/in Section 5.3/ -- check > this > 11) I had a bit of difficulty parsing the sentence "Furthermore, for > each such encoding symbol it is assumed that the number and set of > intermediate symbols whose sum is equal to the encoding symbol is > passed to the decoder." If I parse it correcetly, should this be "the > number and set ... are passed"? Why are you assuming? Is this not > definitive? > 12) in 5.8, s/generated generated/generated/ > > David Harrington > Director, IETF Transport Area > ietfdbh@comcast.net (preferred for ietf) > dbharrington@huaweisymantec.com > +1 603 828 1401 (cell) > > _______________________________________________ > Rmt mailing list > Rmt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > From jani.peltotalo@tut.fi Wed Jan 26 23:00:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: rmt@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6393A6B00 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:00:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_43=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vTBP5jVVy1va for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:00:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi (mail.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497553A6937 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D360D5BC; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:03:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from mail.cs.tut.fi ([130.230.4.42]) by amavis2.cs.tut.fi (amavis2.cs.tut.fi [130.230.4.70]) (amavisd-maia, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12481-15; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:03:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from [130.230.52.207] (icepc023.atm.tut.fi [130.230.52.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.cs.tut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id C203C5BB; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:03:47 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4D4118C2.3090805@tut.fi> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:03:30 +0200 From: Jani Peltotalo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Luby, Michael" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.2 Cc: "Gillies, Don" , "rmt@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Rmt] FLUTE revision X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 07:00:51 -0000 Hi Mike, You are right if there are no late-joiners and/or the first FDT Instance is not lost. In the revised-11 draft there is indeed better wording: "It is RECOMMENDED that an FDT Instance that contains the file description entry for a file is sent prior to the sending of the described file within a file delivery session. This recommendation is intended to minimize the amount of file data which may be received by receivers in advance of the FDT Instance containing the entry for a file (such data must either be speculatively buffered or discarded). Note that this possibility cannot be completely eliminated since the first transmission of FDT data may be lost." However, receiver will buffer at most that data which will be sent between two FDT Instances and FDT Instance interval is of course an implementation level issue. On the other hand, if the version number is in every packet, FLUTE version 1 receiver will not buffer FLUTE version 2 packets at all. BR, Jani > Hi Jani, > > I guess you are thinking that the FLUTE version 1 receivers might buffer > data for files and then when they get the FDT that is for the new FLUTE spec > the receivers realize that they don't support FLUTE version 2 and have to > discard all of this data because they don't know what to do with it? If > that is the concern, there is advice in the FLUTE specification that > recommends that the FDT instances should be sent before the actual data for > the file, and that FDTs should be sent with higher reliability than the file > data. There is stronger and clearer wording on this in the current FLUTE > draft than in RFC 3926, but there is wording on this in the RFC 3926 as > well, e.g.,"It is RECOMMENDED that FDT Instance that contains the file > description entry for a file is sent prior to the sending of the described > file within a file delivery session." > > Maybe I got this wrong? > Best, Mike > > > On 1/26/11 1:20 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: > >> Hi Mike&all, >> >> Yes, this is one possibility to signal the FLUTE version for whole FLUTE >> session. It still have negative influence on FLUTE version 1 receivers, >> which might buffer quite a lot unnecessary data, if the FDT Instance is >> not received early enough. >> >> BR, >> Jani >>> Actually, looking at the FLUTE doc, it seems that the only place where the >>> FLUTE version number is carried is in the FDT Instance header EXT_FDT, which >>> is an ALC PI specific LCT header extension, i.e., in EXT_FDT there is a >>> FLUTE version number that MUST be set to 2. If this is correct, then it >>> seems fine that the version number carried in the LCT header is the ALC >>> version number, which is 1. Comments on this? >>> >>> >>> On 1/26/11 12:33 AM, "Luby, Michael" wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Jani for bringing this to our attention. We will take a look at this. >>>> The easiest solution off the top of my head is to specify in the FLUTE draft >>>> that the LCT version number in the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the >>>> FLUTE version number field (just like what ALC does when it uses LCT). >>>> However, we'll look at it more closely. >>>> Best, Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/25/11 11:02 PM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>> >>>>> Of course we can/must specify in the text as you mention below. However >>>>> in the packet only place to signal the version number is LCT version >>>>> number (V) field: >>>>> >>>>> LCT version number (V): 4 bits >>>>> >>>>> Indicates the LCT version number. The LCT version number for this >>>>> specification is 1. >>>>> >>>>> In RFC 5775 it is then mentioned: >>>>> >>>>> "The version number of ALC specified in this document is 1. The version >>>>> number field of the LCT header MUST be interpreted as the ALC version >>>>> number field. This version of ALC implicitly makes use of version 1 of >>>>> the LCT building block defined in [RFC 5651]." >>>>> >>>>> This kind of text is missing from the experimental FLUTE RFC and from >>>>> the revised FLUTE, but if we want to overload this field with FLUTE >>>>> version number (as we have done in our implementation based in >>>>> experimental RFC) to enable receivers to distinguish FLUTE versions 1 >>>>> and 2, the packet is not anymore align with the ALC and LCT RFCs. >>>>> >>>>> It is also possible to leave this field for ALC/LCT version numbers and >>>>> use for example reserved bits or LCT header extension to signal FLUTE >>>>> version. All in all, in my opinion it is necessary to signal FLUTE >>>>> version 2 somewhere in the FLUTE packet to be backwards compatible with >>>>> the receivers based on the experimental FLUTE RFC. >>>>> >>>>> BR, >>>>> Jani >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Jani, >>>>>> I'm missing where the version of FLUTE must be the same as the version of >>>>>> ALC and LCT. It seems that if we define this specification to be FLUTE >>>>>> version 2, and this FLUTE specification explicitly says that it must be >>>>>> used >>>>>> with ALC version 1 as specified in RFC 5775 and that it must be used with >>>>>> LCT version 1 as specified in RFC 5651 then there is no ambiguity, but >>>>>> maybe >>>>>> I'm missing something? I think what you are saying is that there is an >>>>>> overloaded field that carries both the FLUTE version and the ALC version >>>>>> and >>>>>> the LCT version? If so, can you point to that? >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/25/11 12:51 AM, "Jani. Fi" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear RMTers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One side effect of the version number change is problem with ALC and LCT >>>>>>> versions. Version number is signalled in the LCT header field and in >>>>>>> RFCs 5775 and 5651 (FLUTE revised will be working on top of these RFCs) >>>>>>> version number is specified to be 1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So it is not possible to signal FLUTE version 2 and ALC/LCT version 1 in >>>>>>> the same header field. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BR, >>>>>>> Jani >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear RMTers, We are in the process of revising FLUTE 11, to produce >>>>>>>> FLUTE 12, and it is clear at this point that the FLUTE version number >>>>>>>> will transition from 1 to 2. One question that has arisen: Can an FDT >>>>>>>> instance have a TOI > 0 with an EXT_FDT LCT extension header containing >>>>>>>> the FDT Instance ID? I think it is and should be restricted to TOI = 0 >>>>>>>> for carrying FDT instances, but there is some ambiguities in the text >>>>>>>> here and there that might be construed to suggest otherwise. >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Rmt mailing list >>>>>>>> Rmt@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt >>> >