From nobody Thu Feb 1 01:53:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC5531316DE; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 01:53:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UYdZMBpu1QVI; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 01:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de (mail-out2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de [131.159.0.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA6781318DC; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 01:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.in.tum.de (Postfix, from userid 107) id 45E321C2A52; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:53:51 +0100 (CET) Received: (Authenticated sender: ding) by mail.in.tum.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FEFB1C2A18; Thu, 1 Feb 2018 10:53:49 +0100 (CET) (Extended-Queue-bit tech_wpvnx@fff.in.tum.de) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.8.0.171210 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2018 10:53:52 +0100 From: Aaron Yi DING To: "T2TRG@irtf.org" , "icnrg@irtf.org" Message-ID: <1E11872C-70C9-47E9-8CFB-2064C0316592@tum.de> Thread-Topic: use case breakdown IoT edge Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] use case breakdown IoT edge X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:53:58 -0000 few use cases breakdown from a recent article on IEEE Network: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8270640/ Pre-print PDF can be fetched here: http://home.in.tum.de/~ding/bib/netmag2018.html=EF=BB=BF Cheers, Aaron From nobody Sun Feb 4 22:53:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AE1120727 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:53:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=smartthings-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rH6uYJKjaB90 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com (mail-it0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3488126BF0 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id k131so15418651ith.4 for ; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 22:53:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smartthings-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=3gyyUZGgHeCqYztSUG7Jhnq73tzAqHUNtXb1CS8p/oY=; b=Mn6cJjsWDsKJ8R7fRCjVz+mtErsFLu45KwElnjSG8BZMAA74urscrJvoinEX3PClpg nxLJqqPVALznfzo4E7Wp+yykKPb61Dzam3Ek0JvS4q8o6X/EU0AZZOJOEjCrSnj+Pypc 3bXcEm9b7RERkpLixrFClnEbytEG2HsI3OjzRhWlivfgaOahRIknrE2eTbE+YH5jgxr8 lceKQmc6fDtdbg0GlCUPO9TxkrEioMY75q+7jrp1/y+TBdvnQFbeTq6Ox9B0igku9Gqf CUbfCtmabl9s8cuEfxM5AntdatYIsMwSBQvnFvRAf5wKKuvSLQPzv64sNtNUGifD+x0y GddQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=3gyyUZGgHeCqYztSUG7Jhnq73tzAqHUNtXb1CS8p/oY=; b=eK2+JKZkZPOfomn+vFNLiBKAvS1jDFkmKOzcZtxB6c1x4vrCRxIrXb2KYs9t1YG37b DVU5EoJYTRxF94ohLoHd1V+tM/FN7aMG5+L6XX7Sa5lc8ra2ojoQund0LRHFv2c7EFFZ 3nUnRiVdslnIFZXbGjqx7TDd+kN3ydj7sXv/9mSe39eWxxAcBexB9xRLtQHymLKWgp4t Y9Rp3KqycOKNwas7PGAw1VwjTvrYBuKap5XrYnfA2ISuLI97Rf675ZrxN5fOkeg/TmC7 r4b1WA6w1gTr1YQvw51enOJlozJKSqP8+DF6qf4iHC17ybCjFiLYB4F/pRikxpVdwcyZ 4U3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytcJZFMH9Q3W1apd6woay+nYfObIYrRMSYJEOhw8kw8+8D+U7rIY QCX+709M6YhMy5VHKtsVKLx9mQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224qbyt2d0zHFkFO7RdSX4IByLIIqlkHReTlLDX6jafTdXqQ4pssjjnbVbzQ6bKwMCLLU9xJIg== X-Received: by 10.36.73.102 with SMTP id z99mr59862769ita.72.1517813589943; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 22:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (108-201-184-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n89sm4802672ioe.46.2018.02.04.22.53.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 04 Feb 2018 22:53:08 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Koster Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8B786091-3688-4946-A6F0-EF5646BF492A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:53:06 -0800 In-Reply-To: <5275643D-26F2-44E6-AA55-9C274FA17354@ericsson.com> Cc: "t2trg@irtf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= References: <5275643D-26F2-44E6-AA55-9C274FA17354@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Next WISHI virtual meeting (February 5th, 2018) X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 06:53:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8B786091-3688-4946-A6F0-EF5646BF492A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 For the planning discussion: = https://github.com/mjkoster/wot-protocol-binding/blob/master/wishi-ietf101= .pdf = Best regards, MIchael > On Jan 30, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > The next WISHI virtual meeting will be on Monday, February 5th = 7:00-8:30 AM PST (16:00-17:30 CEST). >=20 > See the latest draft agenda and previous meeting minutes in the WISHI = wiki: > https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items >=20 > Join the call here: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ari > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg --Apple-Mail=_8B786091-3688-4946-A6F0-EF5646BF492A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 For the planning discussion:


Best regards,

MIchael

On Jan 30, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Ari Ker=C3=A4nen <ari.keranen@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi = all,

The next WISHI virtual meeting will be = on Monday, February 5th 7:00-8:30 AM PST (16:00-17:30 CEST).

See the latest draft agenda and previous = meeting minutes in the WISHI wiki:
https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items

Join the call here: = https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi


Cheers,
Ari
_______________________________________________
T2TRG mailing list
T2TRG@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg

= --Apple-Mail=_8B786091-3688-4946-A6F0-EF5646BF492A-- From nobody Mon Feb 5 01:50:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E02129BBF for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 01:50:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A8QBsQ_wslpP for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 01:50:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp2.eurecom.fr (smtp2.eurecom.fr [193.55.113.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D73112946D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 01:50:18 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.46,464,1511823600"; d="scan'208";a="7602636" Received: from monza.eurecom.fr ([192.168.106.15]) by drago2i.eurecom.fr with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2018 10:50:16 +0100 Received: from [172.17.11.61] (flotajou.eurecom.fr [172.17.11.61]) by monza.eurecom.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32211F0E; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:50:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5A7828D8.1030900@eurecom.fr> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 10:50:16 +0100 From: Soumya Kanti Datta Organization: EURECOM User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120824 Thunderbird/15.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Koster CC: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= , "t2trg@irtf.org" References: <5275643D-26F2-44E6-AA55-9C274FA17354@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Next WISHI virtual meeting (February 5th, 2018) X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 09:50:22 -0000 Dear Michael, Ari I'd like to take part in this semantic interop event. When would it be scheduled? Regards, Soumya Research Engineer, EURECOM, France | @skdatta2010 | http://iot.eurecom.fr On 05/02/2018 07:53, Michael Koster wrote: > For the planning discussion: > > https://github.com/mjkoster/wot-protocol-binding/blob/master/wishi-ietf101.pdf > > Best regards, > > MIchael > > >> On Jan 30, 2018, at 9:16 AM, Ari Keränen > > wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> The next WISHI virtual meeting will be on Monday, February 5th >> 7:00-8:30 AM PST (16:00-17:30 CEST). >> >> See the latest draft agenda and previous meeting minutes in the WISHI >> wiki: >> https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items >> >> Join the call here: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi >> >> >> Cheers, >> Ari >> _______________________________________________ >> T2TRG mailing list >> T2TRG@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg > > > > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg > From nobody Mon Feb 5 02:12:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96986129C6E for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:12:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o8_Cza1bKvAi for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7493129BBF for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 02:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w15ACQYv000178; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 11:12:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p5DC7EAF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.234.245]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zZk0p3kKkzDWMr; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 11:12:26 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5A7828D8.1030900@eurecom.fr> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 11:12:25 +0100 Cc: Michael Koster , =?utf-8?Q?Ari_Ker=C3=A4nen?= , "t2trg@irtf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 539518344.859991-0e3a9228181bcd700adeda29744c7b6a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5275643D-26F2-44E6-AA55-9C274FA17354@ericsson.com> <5A7828D8.1030900@eurecom.fr> To: Soumya Kanti Datta X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Next WISHI virtual meeting (February 5th, 2018) X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 10:12:35 -0000 Hi Soumya, On Feb 5, 2018, at 10:50, Soumya Kanti Datta = wrote: >=20 > I'd like to take part in this semantic interop event. When would it be = scheduled? The WISHI activities are linked from the Wiki you can find under http://wishi.space Specifically here: https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items You can find both today=E2=80=99s phone call as well as the March 17/18 = Hackathon event there, among some notes from previous events and phone = meetings. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Feb 12 00:39:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@irtf.org Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BF7127011; Mon, 12 Feb 2018 00:39:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: t2trg@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.72.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151842479077.8058.1187284427273756739@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 00:39:50 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] I-D Action: draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-10.txt X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:39:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Thing-to-Thing RG of the IRTF. Title : State-of-the-Art and Challenges for the Internet of Things Security Authors : Oscar Garcia-Morchon Sandeep S. Kumar Mohit Sethi Filename : draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-10.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2018-02-12 Abstract: The Internet of Things (IoT) concept refers to the usage of standard Internet protocols to allow for human-to-thing and thing-to-thing communication. The security needs for IoT systems are well- recognized and many standardization steps to provide security have been taken, for example, the specification of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) secured with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). However, security challenges still exist, not only because there are some use cases that lack a suitable solution, but also because many IoT devices and systems have been designed and deployed with very limited security capabilities. In this document, we first discuss the various stages in the lifecycle of a thing. Next, we document the security threats to a thing and the challenges that one might face to protect against these threats. Lastly, we discuss the next steps needed to facilitate the deployment of secure IoT systems. This document can be used by IoT standards specifications as a reference for details about security considerations applying to the specified protocol. This document is a product of the IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group (T2TRG). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 13 04:40:05 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@irtf.org Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C00E1201FA; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 04:40:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: t2trg@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.72.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151852560399.22196.2309729695273104116@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 04:40:04 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] I-D Action: draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11.txt X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 12:40:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Thing-to-Thing RG of the IRTF. Title : State-of-the-Art and Challenges for the Internet of Things Security Authors : Oscar Garcia-Morchon Sandeep S. Kumar Mohit Sethi Filename : draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2018-02-13 Abstract: The Internet of Things (IoT) concept refers to the usage of standard Internet protocols to allow for human-to-thing and thing-to-thing communication. The security needs for IoT systems are well- recognized and many standardization steps to provide security have been taken, for example, the specification of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) secured with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). However, security challenges still exist, not only because there are some use cases that lack a suitable solution, but also because many IoT devices and systems have been designed and deployed with very limited security capabilities. In this document, we first discuss the various stages in the lifecycle of a thing. Next, we document the security threats to a thing and the challenges that one might face to protect against these threats. Lastly, we discuss the next steps needed to facilitate the deployment of secure IoT systems. This document can be used by IoT standards specifications as a reference for details about security considerations applying to the specified protocol. This document is a product of the IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group (T2TRG). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 13 04:44:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7771270A7 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 04:44:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.319 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2CB56aj5uXFd for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 04:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD38B124BFA for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 04:44:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1518525854; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=5oyrzh5HCaLa6ued25qUqcp8kUfbRbhoxJSN2yz5CsA=; b=bvTzjMwqn0y1ExZtTS052FnNlAaAL8UDv/UNXIigqEBOS/cEcODJxqTf8mdPQ1Gb z7QlEC4P6Zccnlp08M70zANd34Puq73MHaqd4lLhKe85q+9SnlSKZReY4SXB0fcu VL4FqHIe+mey0+m9ED/lkrljMbGKWxdlTA+BGV1fGAk=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-3b1ff70000004778-1d-5a82dd9ec8d8 Received: from ESESSHC018.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.72]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BE.6D.18296.E9DD28A5; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 13:44:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from nomadiclab.fi.eu.ericsson.se (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.352.0; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 13:44:13 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.fi.eu.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.fi.eu.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050F1481736; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 14:44:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by nomadiclab.fi.eu.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFB3480EEE; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 14:44:13 +0200 (EET) From: Mohit Sethi To: Stephen Farrell , References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> CC: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 14:44:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000705070902050305020002" X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7h+68u01RBh8va1isnv6dzaLhzgUW i+l7r7FbvH/Qw+LA4rFxznQ2j7XdV9k8Jm88zOZx4MBupgCWKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6M7jcb GQt+/2WsuHv1A2sD46uzjF2MnBwSAiYS3W9vMIHYQgKHGSXezBbqYuQCsncwSkxsfc4G4Wxi lPg8bzELhLOAUeLKkT1gLWwCehKd544zg9jCAtYSPd3/WEBsEQFHianndgLZHEANNhLz7uaB hJkF0iX+bD0C1sorYC+x9PBCJpASFgFVidcPU0DCogIREp0r57NAlAhKnJz5BMzmFLCV6O39 zAhyArNAN6PE+5Z1zBAfKEssaFnECPGBusTWjgOMExiFZiHpn4WsZxbYHWESDefnsUHY4hK3 nsxngrDNJOZtfghVoy2xbOFrIJsDyFaTWNaqhCoMYltLzPh1EGqMosSU7ofsELapxOujHxkh bGOJZev+si1g5FnFKFqcWpyUm25kpJdalJlcXJyfp5eXWrKJERjNB7f8NtjB+PK54yFGAQ5G JR5eDvGmKCHWxLLiytxDjCpAcx5tWH2BUYolLz8vVUmEl2MhUJo3JbGyKrUoP76oNCe1+BCj NAeLkjjvSU/eKCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpgsEwenVAPjGr19t01zw3RSLWOX3FOSOzb/z0y3jJnf z4fO2dygLs/7+ovK9ysXmnYLLHoUImxQ7LH87rX7xYLd6Wfr3zK+YLJ7Zsh+7/wnOTXrQhdR aZM9784/zJSaUi6nvjRWfeMC3+pHc96pB22yD/r1puXt0W+71kXO6hWYvEl9GbeTQeeF/dH8 1ouZlViKMxINtZiLihMBGJivnu4CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 12:44:21 -0000 --------------ms000705070902050305020002 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------98B915A4FCD29EA320339221" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------98B915A4FCD29EA320339221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, Thanks for the detailed review. We have submitted updated versions to=20 address your concerns. You can find the latest version (-11) here:=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 and the diff = from the earlier version which you reviewed (-09) here: https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ie= tf.org/id/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-09.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.o= rg/id/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11.txt Here are our responses to your comments: > I wasn't > clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly > meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If > the intended readership is someone else, then who? > And will the current text be useful for that set of > folks? The draft says in the abstract "This document can be used by IoT=20 standards specifications as a reference for details about security=20 considerations applying to the specified protocol.". Will this draft=20 solve all the IoT security problems and save the world? No. That was=20 never the intention. The draft provides a summary/collection of major=20 security challenges for IoT and the existing tools and protocols that=20 are available. This would serve as a good read for those designing new=20 protocols. And instead of repeating many of the generic security=20 considerations in each draft,=C2=A0 they could simply refer to this docum= ent. > (Note that I suggest referring to rfc 8240 and the LPWAN > overview draft and am an editor for both of those. I do > think they'd be good additions, but didn't want you to think > I'm sneakily trying to up my h-index:-) They are now added at relevant places in the document. > - 50 pages, sheesh The draft is currently 30 pages long with 10 pages of references. Yes,=20 it is relatively long. But this an RG document that summarizes a lot of=20 things. > - p1: crap code is surely the biggest security challlenge > =C2=A0 here, if this doc is to be useful it'll need to recognise > that. The draft says in section 3: "Vulnerable Software: Things in the=20 Internet of Things rely on software that might contain bugs.=C2=A0 This m= akes=20 the things vulnerable to many different types of attacks, depending on=20 the criticality of the bugs, e.g., buffer overflows or lack of=20 authentication." > - p3: I don't see the point of sales-speak such as "The > =C2=A0 things that are part of the Internet of Things are no > longer unresponsive and have transformed into computing > devices that understand and react to the environment they > reside in." Not a sales pitch but rephrased anyhow. > - p4, the lifecycle doesn't start when a tangible device is > =C2=A0 manufactured but rather when the oldest bit of code the > ends up in the device was written.=C2=A0 That's a significant > point, esp for smaller vendors who often re-use unpatched > old builds that "work" but may be wildly insecure. > - p4, I'd argue that the lifecycle could include some > recognition of OSS, but I'm not sure how to properly > include that. > - p4, the lifecycle could also include an on-the-shelf phase > =C2=A0 and a phase where a device is re-badged by some vendor who > wasn't the actual original manuf.=C2=A0 Such phases can > significantly complicate s/w update and bootstrapping. > - p4, there are two other end-states that probably ought be > =C2=A0 part of the lifecycle - where a vendor end-of-life's a > device type that's still in use and where a device is simply > forgotten but keeps on trucking.=20 Good points. We have added a paragraph before Figure 1 stating that the=20 described lifecycle is a simplified model that can be extended, e.g.,=20 with the situations that you describe. > - p7, section 2.2 seems pointless if it's not used later in > =C2=A0 the document - you may as well delete this. FWIW, I don't > find figure 3 useful. Removed. > - p9, the list seems to me to be very for-profit-vendor > =C2=A0 oriented.=C2=A0 I wonder would a non-profit or device-using > organisation write a different list? I think they would, > e.g. they might include "crap s/w" and "attempted capture > via proprietary APIs/data formats/cloudy services" as > threats. We do say that the list is not-exhaustive. Some of it has more to do=20 with business security than actual device/system security. > > - p11, I would argue that privacy deserves much more > =C2=A0 attention in this document than this, and that this > document isn't much use without that. For example, it's > important to include the scenario where a static sensor > emits a packet due to the presence/absence of people - in > that scenario anyone who can see that packet can potentially > invade the privacy of the people involved.=C2=A0 You do include > more in section 5, but see my comment below about how that > section is(n't:-) organised. We have added this example to Section 5.9. > - p20, "the fact is that many IoT devices and systems have > =C2=A0 very limited security." It seems a bit late to say this on > page 20:-) Added some text earlier in the document (for example, in the abstract). > - p21, I'm not sure an RFC is a good place to wonder about > =C2=A0 potential future regulation, unless that's to be done in a > more thorough manner. I'd say deleting the last two > paragraphs of section 4.3 and replacing those with a single > sentence that "redional regulations aren't unlikely" might > be better.=20 Removed some text and added that regional regulations aren't unlikely. > > - p22, I don't agree with the crypto points made (IMO, only > =C2=A0 devices that can verify an occasional signature ought be > exposed to the Internet) - but even so the references here > aren't good - curve 25519 ought be the main ECC reference > relating to lessened CPU requirements. It's also a surprise > to not see a mention of chacha. Added references to curve 25519 and chacha. > > - p12, "Thus, ensuring a proper level of security in an IoT > =C2=A0 system at any point of time is challenging.=C2=A0 To address > this challenge, a process for secure product creation is > required to ensure that an IoT system is secure and no > security risks are present." That's just silly - aiming for > a perfect system ("no security risks") is pointless as those > do not exist. Rephrased > - p13, 4.1 should have some mention of LPWANs and indeed > =C2=A0 those deserve more text in general as the set of usable > security mechanisms and challenges differ in those parts of > networks.=C2=A0 You do mention LPWAN in 5.1.4 - which confused me > as that text probably should be here in 4.x.=C2=A0 You might also > wanna reference the LPWAN overview draft, currently in IETF > LC.=20 Added in 4.1. > > - p16 and elsewhere - the state-of-the-art text should > =C2=A0 really try to indicate which things are or more, or less, > importanct. That can be tricky, but e.g.=C2=A0 presenting HIP as > being of equal importance to (D)TLS here isn't useful, nor > particularly credible. I also wonder if OSCOAP is as mature > and important as the text implies. Text has been adapted to make clear that TLS, DTLS are the most=20 important protocols. Wording is added to make clear that HIP is less=20 relevant and OSCoAP is relatively new. > - p21, I don't get the logic behind the organisation of > =C2=A0 section 5, it seems to be a just-so list if things > described at fairly different levels of detail, e.g.=C2=A0 5.1 vs > 5.2. I'd say a bit of thought as to how to organise this > section could lead to a better organised text.=C2=A0 I'm not sure > how that'd be best done myself, but perhaps some discussion > within the RG would help there. Section 5.2 is much shorter since the RG decided to include that=20 material in a different Internet Draft. > - p24, homomorphic crypto? Huh? I don't buy that at all. > =C2=A0 And following the [SEAL] reference leads to a dead end. > If you want to make a claim like this more detail would be > needed. I'd say deleting this is best. The text says that it is limited in use. However, this is an area in=20 which many people are working and thus, we would rather keep it. We have = updated the reference. Microsoft updated it in the last months. > - p28 - how is referring to an expired draft from 9 years > =C2=A0 ago (yes, 2009!) useful? Removed. > - p28, [iotsu] is better referred to via rfc 8240 and I > =C2=A0 think a lot of the text in 5.4 is likely included in that > report. The overlap is probably fine, but it'd be no harm to > just check to see if anything else from 8240 would be worth > including here. Updated the reference to RFC 8240. > - p33, at the start of 5.9 "Users" is the wrong term, you > =C2=A0 should say "People" - that's not just a nit, but an > important difference (and one worth explicitly calling out) > as the people whose privacy is affected by devices need not > be "users" in any sense at all. Automatic number plate > scanners or camera based systems are usually good examples. Updated as suggested. > - p34, in 5.10 you could add some mention of and reference > =C2=A0 to methods for h/w tamper detection/resistance. Added > > - p36 says "Thus, a potential approach is the definition and > =C2=A0 standardization of security profiles,..." That conclusion > is not justified based on the text of this document. > (Where's there anything that implies that this conclusion is > warranted?) Secondly, I don't agree with the conclusion > itself - in the case of RPL that approach has lead to > nothing good happening that I've seen, and I'd expect it to > lead to more fig-leaves if applied in other cases. Now, > while I may be wrong, and your conlusion may be right, I > think I'm fairly safe in saying that much more justification > is needed before this conclusion could be credibly drawn. Removed. If you don't find some of your comments here, then we chose not to take=20 any action on it. Please let us know if something is still needed. Oscar, Sandeep and Mohit On 01/05/2018 06:10 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > Hiya, > > Carsten asked me to take a look at this draft and > I said I would over the holidays, so I'm only a > wee bit later than promised:-) > > In general, I think some more work is needed. Aside > from the specific points in the attached, I wasn't > clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly > meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If > the intended readership is someone else, then who? > And will the current text be useful for that set of > folks? > > Apologies in advance if some of the issues I raise > have been discussed in the RG before - I haven't > had time to participate in the RG to date. (I'm also > not subscribed to the RG list so please do cc me > on any follow ups.) > > Cheers, > S. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg --------------98B915A4FCD29EA320339221 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stefan,

Thanks for the detailed review. We have submitted updated versions to address your concerns. You can find the latest version (-11) here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 and the diff from the earlier version which you reviewed (-09) here:=C2=A0

https://tools.ietf= =2Eorg/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-= irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-09.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-= irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11.txt

Here are our responses to your comments:

I wasn't
clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly
meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If
the intended readership is someone else, then who?
And will the current text be useful for that set of
folks?

The draft says in the abstract "This document can be used by IoT standards specifications as a reference for details about security considerations applying to the specified protocol.". Will this draft solve all the IoT security problems and save the world? No. That was never the intention. The draft provides a summary/collection of major security challenges for IoT and the existing tools and protocols that are available. This would serve as a good read for those designing new protocols. And instead of repeating many of the generic security considerations in each draft,=C2=A0 they could simply refer to this document.

(Note that I suggest referring to rfc 8240 and the LPWAN
overview draft and am an editor for both of those. I do
think they'd be good additions, but didn't want you to think
I'm sneakily trying to up my h-index:-)

They are now added at relevant places in the document.

- 50 pages, sheesh

The draft is currently 30 pages long with 10 pages of references. Yes, it is relatively long. But this an RG document that summarizes a lot of things.=C2=A0

- p1: crap code is surely the biggest security challlenge
=C2=A0 here, if this doc is to be useful it'll need to recognise that.

The draft says in section 3: "Vulnerable Software: Things in the Internet of Things rely on software that might contain bugs.=C2=A0 Th= is makes the things vulnerable to many different types of attacks, depending on the criticality of the bugs, e.g., buffer overflows or lack of authentication."

- p3: I don't see the point of sales-speak such as "The
=C2=A0 things that are part of the Internet of Things are no
longer unresponsive and have transformed into computing
devices that understand and react to the environment they
reside in."

Not a sales pitch but rephrased anyhow.

- p4, the lifecycle doesn't start when a tangible device is
=C2=A0 manufactured but rather when the oldest bit of code the
ends up in the device was written.=C2=A0 That's a significant
point, esp for smaller vendors who often re-use unpatched
old builds that "work" but may be wildly insecure.
- p4, I'd argue that the lifecycle could include some
recognition of OSS, but I'm not sure how to properly
include that.
- p4, the lifecycle could also include an on-the-shelf phase
=C2=A0 and a phase where a device is re-badged by some vendor who wasn't the actual original manuf.=C2=A0 Such phases can
significantly complicate s/w update and bootstrapping.
- p4, there are two other end-states that probably ought be
=C2=A0 part of the lifecycle - where a vendor end-of-life's a
device type that's still in use and where a device is simply
forgotten but keeps on trucking.

Good points. We have added a paragraph before Figure 1 stating that the described lifecycle is a simplified model that can be extended, e.g., with the situations that you describe.

- p7, section 2.2 seems pointless if it's not used later in
=C2=A0 the document - you may as well delete this. FWIW, I don't find figure 3 useful.

Removed.

- p9, the list seems to me to be very for-profit-vendor
=C2=A0 oriented.=C2=A0 I wonder would a non-profit or device-using<= br> organisation write a different list? I think they would,
e.g. they might include "crap s/w" and "attempted capture
via proprietary APIs/data formats/cloudy services" as
threats.

We do say that the list is not-exhaustive. Some of it has more to do with business security than actual device/system security.


- p11, I would argue that privacy deserves much more
=C2=A0 attention in this document than this, and that this
document isn't much use without that. For example, it's
important to include the scenario where a static sensor
emits a packet due to the presence/absence of people - in
that scenario anyone who can see that packet can potentially
invade the privacy of the people involved.=C2=A0 You do include
= more in section 5, but see my comment below about how that
section is(n't:-) organised.

We have added this example to Section 5.9.

- p20, "the fact is that many IoT devices and systems have
=C2=A0 very limited security." It seems a bit late to say this on page 20:-)

Added some text earlier in the document (for example, in the abstract).

- p21, I'm not sure an RFC is a good place to wonder about
=C2=A0 potential future regulation, unless that's to be done in a more thorough manner. I'd say deleting the last two
paragraphs of section 4.3 and replacing those with a single
sentence that "redional regulations aren't unlikely" might
be better.

Removed some text and added that regional regulations aren't unlikely.


- p22, I don't agree with the crypto points made (IMO, only
=C2=A0 devices that can verify an occasional signature ought be
= exposed to the Internet) - but even so the references here
aren't good - curve 25519 ought be the main ECC reference
relating to lessened CPU requirements. It's also a surprise
to not see a mention of chacha.

Added references to curve 25519 and chacha.


- p12, "Thus, ensuring a proper level of security in an IoT
=C2=A0 system at any point of time is challenging.=C2=A0 To address=
this challenge, a process for secure product creation is
required to ensure that an IoT system is secure and no
security risks are present." That's just silly - aiming for
a perfect system ("no security risks") is pointless as those
do not exist.

Rephrased

- p13, 4.1 should have some mention of LPWANs and indeed
=C2=A0 those deserve more text in general as the set of usable
security mechanisms and challenges differ in those parts of
networks.=C2=A0 You do mention LPWAN in 5.1.4 - which confused me as that text probably should be here in 4.x.=C2=A0 You might also wanna reference the LPWAN overview draft, currently in IETF
LC.

Added in 4.1.


- p16 and elsewhere - the state-of-the-art text should
=C2=A0 really try to indicate which things are or more, or less, importanct. That can be tricky, but e.g.=C2=A0 presenting HIP as being of equal importance to (D)TLS here isn't useful, nor
particularly credible. I also wonder if OSCOAP is as mature
and important as the text implies.

Text has been adapted to make clear that TLS, DTLS are the most important protocols. Wording is added to make clear that HIP is less relevant and OSCoAP is relatively new.

- p21, I don't get the logic behind the organisation of
=C2=A0 section 5, it seems to be a just-so list if things
described at fairly different levels of detail, e.g.=C2=A0 5.1 vs 5.2. I'd say a bit of thought as to how to organise this
section could lead to a better organised text.=C2=A0 I'm not sure how that'd be best done myself, but perhaps some discussion
within the RG would help there.

Section 5.2 is much shorter since the RG decided to include that material in a different Internet Draft.

- p24, homomorphic crypto? Huh? I don't buy= that at all.
=C2=A0 And following the [SEAL] reference leads to a dead end.
If you want to make a claim like this more detail would be
needed. I'd say deleting this is best.

The text says that it is limited in use. However, this is an area in which many people are working and thus, we would rather keep it. We have updated the reference. Microsoft updated it in the last months.<= br>
- p28 - how is referring to an expired draf= t from 9 years
=C2=A0 ago (yes, 2009!) useful?

Removed.

- p28, [iotsu] is better referred to via rf= c 8240 and I
=C2=A0 think a lot of the text in 5.4 is likely included in that report. The overlap is probably fine, but it'd be no harm to
just check to see if anything else from 8240 would be worth
including here.

Updated the reference to RFC 8240.

- p33, at the start of 5.9 "Users" is the wrong term, you
=C2=A0 should say "People" - that's not just a nit, but an
important difference (and one worth explicitly calling out)
as the people whose privacy is affected by devices need not
be "users" in any sense at all. Automatic number plate
scanners or camera based systems are usually good examples.
Updated as suggested.

- p34, in 5.10 you could add some mention o= f and reference
=C2=A0 to methods for h/w tamper detection/resistance.
=
Added


- p36 says "Thus, a potential approach is the definition and
=C2=A0 standardization of security profiles,..." That conclusion is not justified based on the text of this document.
(Where's there anything that implies that this conclusion is
warranted?) Secondly, I don't agree with the conclusion
itself - in the case of RPL that approach has lead to
nothing good happening that I've seen, and I'd expect it to
lead to more fig-leaves if applied in other cases. Now,
while I may be wrong, and your conlusion may be right, I
think I'm fairly safe in saying that much more justification
is needed before this conclusion could be credibly drawn.
Removed.

If you don't find some of your comments here, then we chose not to take any action on it. Please let us know if something is still needed.

Oscar, Sandeep and Mohit

On 01/05/2018 06:10 PM, Stephen Farrel= l wrote:
Hiya,

Carsten asked me to take a look at this draft and
I said I would over the holidays, so I'm only a
wee bit later than promised:-)

In general, I think some more work is needed. Aside
from the specific points in the attached, I wasn't
clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly
meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If
the intended readership is someone else, then who?
And will the current text be useful for that set of
folks?

Apologies in advance if some of the issues I raise
have been discussed in the RG before - I haven't
had time to participate in the RG to date. (I'm also
not subscribed to the RG list so please do cc me
on any follow ups.)

Cheers,
S.




_______________________________________________
T2TRG mailing list
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Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RU7-Djg5Qaw1 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 22:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36AEF124F57 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 22:32:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1518589937; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IGqC/kAkArM+53RRUtClF7U3xTlxnodop+q2kZZ1H/0=; b=UJqT8H7CA581Oz3jikwhrHYNsI8m/LAEeXjH+kxUDwoXJI2XbXljvIj7VgvmPwhX 5bxsZg885KwdMKeMIClDo0SJpgPWV4rFWPHRxQQsmNxhVzlRCqmPBO3GxSpi7qn+ JrNMwa2VXXvEZndSZPYZ+9LNtQlNoSbUTnamwipHPwg=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-473ff7000000341b-9d-5a83d7f177f6 Received: from ESESSHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.27]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F4.70.13339.1F7D38A5; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 07:32:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.195]) by ESESSHC003.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.27]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 07:32:17 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: "T2TRG@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Next WISHI virtual meeting (February 19th, 2018) Thread-Index: AQHTpV2ObYL9JXeUiEycA6ZqSY7YhA== Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 06:32:16 +0000 Message-ID: <0074EADD-8D10-4340-A966-FB6C24E53E63@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7tO7H681RBosXmVq8f9DD4sDoMXnj YbYAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujP87F7EU/GCqOPlpL2MD41amLkZODgkBE4l76z6zdjFycQgJ HGaU2PpiOjuEs4RRYsfj0ywgVWwC9hKT13xkBLFFBFQlmqdsYAWxhQUsJVq2LgNq4ACK20kc /JwDUaInceDKHGYQmwWovOPsYXYQmxdozNOT79hAbEYBMYnvp9aAHcEsIC5x68l8qIMEJJbs Oc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpJoXPKEFaJeT+LG1ClsELa1xMeub1BxbYllC18zQ+wSlDg58wnLBEbh WUhWzELSPgtJ+ywk7bOQtC9gZF3FKFqcWpyUm25krJdalJlcXJyfp5eXWrKJERj6B7f8Vt3B ePmN4yFGAQ5GJR7eV07NUUKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEeI3PA4V4UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNSiw8xSnOw KInznvTkjRISSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJMnFwSjUwVhkKy62T7fzrULP+rsKDmAdVxyqUXhzqMTH9 VOUtnlW8/vm3k1srz8pb33hlI+SlNnGXyq+omk86htvNt7U6TZ/67wr3QTn37EKFJU/nSxVE cpQE3GV87/C8PZ/7wYtJJx/l+QokTD3plpz/7NHXN4ZBl85sWbHvWrr4r4rDKknLjoe8lbh9 RImlOCPRUIu5qDgRAHen6ZF5AgAA Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Next WISHI virtual meeting (February 19th, 2018) X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 06:32:22 -0000 Hi all, We are continuing WISHI calls with our usual bi-weekly cadence and the next= one will be on Monday, February 19th 7:00-8:30 AM PST (16:00-17:30 CET). See the latest draft agenda and previous meeting minutes in the WISHI wiki: https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items Join the call here: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi Cheers, Ari= From nobody Thu Feb 15 03:13:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA22124BE8 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 03:13:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id huweCDx-7MYh for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 03:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E715127275 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 03:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1FBDGKe009405 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:13:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from client-0222.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0222.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.222]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zhttN3378zDXF3; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:13:16 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 12:13:15 +0100 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 540385993.939362-f64cb07888a5be08508df9740dee8052 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3BF26B93-CACF-4D4F-A450-959A97128750@tzi.org> References: To: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Preparing for the IETF101 cluster, WISHI and T2TRG X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 11:13:22 -0000 On Dec 18, 2017, at 10:29, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > W3C WoT is meeting in Prague the week after IETF101, and OCF has taken = the opportunity to co-locate with that (unfortunately, during the IETF = week). We may want to bite the bullet and move over to Prague for a = Friday joint meeting =E2=80=94 this takes out half a day from the IETF = attendance, but these joint meetings have turned out to be useful. =20 OCF was able to cram this joint OCF/T2TRG/W3C WoT meeting into their = Friday afternoon agenda, so people leaving London early Friday morning = for Prague can be there in time. The joint session is scheduled from = 13:30=E2=80=9317:30 on Friday, March 23rd. OCF is also inviting us to = their meeting lunch at 12:30=E2=80=9313:30. We=E2=80=99ll need to collect registration information by March 12th; = more about that (and other logistical details) later. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Sat Feb 17 08:35:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DDA1204DA; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 08:34:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JApWs0NPk0ix; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 08:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16CB4120725; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 08:34:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1HGYepK013857; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:34:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from client-0231.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0231.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zkFwF6pZ9zDXjD; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:34:37 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 540578068.245754-97e5f0bc463b69dabaa858a33a4d2e19 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 08:34:29 -0800 Message-Id: To: ace@ietf.org, "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , cose , cbor@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF101: DRAFT AGENDA X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 16:34:46 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA for IETF101. Remember that there is still quite some potential for changes. The painful ones (not necessarily fixable) this time include: DINRG vs. ACE, CBOR vs. TEEP, ROLL vs. SUIT vs. OCF/WoT; also CORE vs. ANIMA, CORE vs. QUIC. All times are BST (UTC+0100). (You can get pure UTC times on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten SATURDAY/SUNDAY -- Hackathon (including various interops) MONDAY, March 19, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Bleinheim ART dispatch Dispatch WG - 0930-1100 Joint = with ARTAREA Sandringham INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG Palace C IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure = Proposed RG Viscount OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Balmoral SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Buckingham ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Viscount INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Sandringham TSV quic QUIC WG 1550-1720 Afternoon Session II Sandringham INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Balmoral IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Buckingham SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1740-1840 Afternoon Session III Balmoral SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Sandringham TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting TUESDAY, March 20, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Viscount ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Sandringham IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Buckingham OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Bleinheim SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Park Suite ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Buckingham IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking Proposed RG Richm_Chl_Tow RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Balmoral SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning BOF 1550-1820 Afternoon Session II Balmoral ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Park Suite IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking WEDNESDAY, March 21, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Viscount INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Sandringham IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Bleinheim SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Park Suite TSV taps Transport Services WG 1330-1500 Afternoon Session I Viscount INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Richm_Chl_Tow RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Park Suite SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG Palace C TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II Park Suite INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG Buckingham SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG Viscount SEC tokbind Token Binding WG 1710-1940 IETF Plenary - Sandringham THURSDAY, March 22, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Buckingham INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Park Suite RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Sandringham TSV quic QUIC WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Buckingham INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Sandringham SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1550-1750 Afternoon Session II Bleinheim IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Sandringham RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Buckingham SEC mls Messaging Layer Security BOF Balmoral TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1810-1910 Afternoon Session III Bleinheim ART uta Using TLS in Applications WG Park Suite RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Balmoral TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG FRIDAY, March 23, 2018 0930-1130 Morning Session I Richm_Chl_Tow ART ice Interactive Connectivity Establishment = WG - 0930 - 1030 Sandringham INT homenet Home Networking WG Bleinheim RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Viscount RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Balmoral SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 1150-1320 Afternoon Session I Bleinheim RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG 1330-1730 @ OCF meeting venue (Prague, colocated with W3C WoT) -- Joint meeting of OCF, W3C WoT, and T2TRG From nobody Tue Feb 20 20:57:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF05912D0C3 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:57:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4JmuaVid8F0K for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D64D129C6D for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:57:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1L4vJ67011354 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 05:57:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from pptp-218-1.informatik.uni-bremen.de (pptp-218-1.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zmQFp5BdLzDWxJ; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 05:57:18 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <3BF26B93-CACF-4D4F-A450-959A97128750@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:57:11 -0800 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 540881829.9110399-d1aa621d6543633d9af65d6821cbd8d9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5486D56F-BC98-405D-8771-B15032EC5C4C@tzi.org> References: <3BF26B93-CACF-4D4F-A450-959A97128750@tzi.org> To: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Preparing for the IETF101 cluster, WISHI and T2TRG X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 04:57:26 -0000 On Feb 15, 2018, at 03:13, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Dec 18, 2017, at 10:29, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>=20 >> W3C WoT is meeting in Prague the week after IETF101, and OCF has = taken the opportunity to co-locate with that (unfortunately, during the = IETF week). We may want to bite the bullet and move over to Prague for = a Friday joint meeting =E2=80=94 this takes out half a day from the IETF = attendance, but these joint meetings have turned out to be useful. =20 >=20 > OCF was able to cram this joint OCF/T2TRG/W3C WoT meeting into their = Friday afternoon agenda, so people leaving London early Friday morning = for Prague can be there in time. The joint session is scheduled from = 13:30=E2=80=9317:30 on Friday, March 23rd. OCF is also inviting us to = their meeting lunch at 12:30=E2=80=9313:30. >=20 > We=E2=80=99ll need to collect registration information by March 12th; = more about that (and other logistical details) later. While we don=E2=80=99t have all those logistical details yet, here is an = update for this and the other parts of that busy week: # 2018-03-17..-18 The WISHI Hackathon @ IETF101 (London) So that we can plan the details of what we are going to do there, = Michael Koster has prepared a questionnaire for participants: = https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon--Participant-Questionnaire If you want to participate, please fill in as much of the questionnaire = as you can (all questions are optional; see the embedded instructions) = and submit a pull request to the Wishi repo (e.g., prefixing the file = name with your name/your company name) or send it to Michael or to the = chairs (t2trg-chairs@irtf.org). More planning information at: https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon-Planning # 2018-03-22 T2TRG summary meeting @ IETF101 (London) The final IETF101 agenda isn=E2=80=99t out yet, but it seems we will = meet on Thursday afternoon (*) at 1550-1750 to report to the IETF and = for a number of interesting talks. The agenda is being built right now: https://github.com/t2trg/2018-ietf101 # 2018-03-23 Joint meeting between OCF, T2TRG and W3C WoT (Prague) The agenda is being built right now: https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot Please indicate if you want to have topics added. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) Yes, this is suboptimal for those of us flying on to Prague for the = joint meeting; attempts to swap slots=20 haven=E2=80=99t been fruitful. From nobody Tue Feb 20 21:07:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4922512AF83 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:07:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JeWjdlaE4t2m for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 910D912708C for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:07:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1L57RV0019791 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 06:07:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from pptp-218-1.informatik.uni-bremen.de (pptp-218-1.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zmQTV6zJyzDWxM; Wed, 21 Feb 2018 06:07:26 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5486D56F-BC98-405D-8771-B15032EC5C4C@tzi.org> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:07:19 -0800 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 540882438.302395-12e450dcd535c89865c4239ef0a88354 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3BF26B93-CACF-4D4F-A450-959A97128750@tzi.org> <5486D56F-BC98-405D-8771-B15032EC5C4C@tzi.org> To: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Preparing for the IETF101 cluster, WISHI and T2TRG X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 05:07:33 -0000 On Feb 20, 2018, at 20:57, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > please fill in as much of the questionnaire=20 =E2=80=A6 and I forgot to say that it would be good to have a first = version of that soon, latest by Monday, as we plan to make a short = coordination call at 2018-02-26 14:30Z (06:30 PST, 15:30 CET, =E2=80=A6) = https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon--Participant-Questionnaire Please join on Monday via https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Feb 21 13:19:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B6E124BFA for ; 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Wed, 21 Feb 2018 22:19:06 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?QXJpIEtlcsOkbmVu?= To: "t2trg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: [T2TRG] Preparing for the IETF101 cluster, WISHI and T2TRG Thread-Index: AQHTd+LA5AjaXno1nky5WTYc9GjHbaOlm2mAgAkE64CAAALVgIABD4KA Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:19:06 +0000 Message-ID: <8F6D3861-3D6F-4B3E-BC87-CCE604386B8E@ericsson.com> References: <3BF26B93-CACF-4D4F-A450-959A97128750@tzi.org> <5486D56F-BC98-405D-8771-B15032EC5C4C@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [87.95.226.8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8D0B7DB99EC1CC44B545433B3FC08DB6@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7oG7Oo94ogzNH2S3eP+hhcWD0mLzx MFsAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxtPOPawF87gqXjXeZm9g/MPZxcjJISFgIrHx3BfGLkYuDiGB w4wS5w4fYIJwljBK/Gq4zwhSxSZgK/GkdR8riC0ioCqxceZGMFtYwF1iwfVFTBBxD4lXXfeg atwkTt9byw5iswDVX9k9ga2LkYODV8Be4uHhVIj5Zxklzj/6zwQS5xSwlmg56QFSziggJvH9 1BqwkcwC4hK3nsxngjhUQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/1ghbHmJGWdvgY1hFtCUWL9LH6LVWmLjnJes ELaixJTuh2DX8AoISpyc+YRlAqPoLCQbZiF0z0LSPQtJ9ywk3QsYWVcxihanFiflphsZ66UW ZSYXF+fn6eWllmxiBMbJwS2/VXcwXn7jeIhRgINRiYd37p3eKCHWxLLiytxDjBIczEoivCcS gEK8KYmVValF+fFFpTmpxYcYpTlYlMR55wi3RwkJpCeWpGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYY+4q6u6N 2jKP4/BOdr1LP5W0jjqEHlFiezgj9KBKoNQrThtm3+c29+xO8v4ymNZussX88NbN3GIpf3uX 5IQmrn6z5bRrs/yfi3yX1XS8/zn59+RlLop1DDlj6TtTrkrnfKrNRJlU341cNeoxxueMnC8s 47/14o/gN43pu14VrI199kEqq/+HEktxRqKhFnNRcSIAFWZib48CAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Preparing for the IETF101 cluster, WISHI and T2TRG X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 21:19:43 -0000 SWYgeW91IHByZWZlciB0byBhbnN3ZXIgdXNpbmcgYSB3ZWIgZm9ybSBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIFBSIHRv IEdpdGh1YiwgeW91IGNhbiB1c2UgdGhpcyBHb29nbGUgZm9ybToNCmh0dHBzOi8vZ29vLmdsL2Zv cm1zL0p2WVNiOFZPV2l6a0t5MjYyDQoNCkFzIHdpdGggdGhlIEdpdGh1YiBxdWVzdGlvbm5haXJl LCBhbGwgcXVlc3Rpb25zIGFyZSBvcHRpb25hbC4gDQoNCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KQXJpDQoNCj4gT24g MjEgRmViIDIwMTgsIGF0IDcuMDcsIENhcnN0ZW4gQm9ybWFubiA8Y2Fib0B0emkub3JnPiB3cm90 ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIEZlYiAyMCwgMjAxOCwgYXQgMjA6NTcsIENhcnN0ZW4gQm9ybWFubiA8Y2Fi b0B0emkub3JnPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+IA0KPj4gcGxlYXNlIGZpbGwgaW4gYXMgbXVjaCBvZiB0aGUg cXVlc3Rpb25uYWlyZSANCj4gDQo+IOKApiBhbmQgSSBmb3Jnb3QgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgaXQgd291 bGQgYmUgZ29vZCB0byBoYXZlIGEgZmlyc3QgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiB0aGF0IHNvb24sIGxhdGVzdCBi eSBNb25kYXksIGFzIHdlIHBsYW4gdG8gbWFrZSBhIHNob3J0IGNvb3JkaW5hdGlvbiBjYWxsIGF0 DQo+IA0KPiAyMDE4LTAyLTI2IDE0OjMwWiAoMDY6MzAgUFNULCAxNTozMCBDRVQsIOKApikNCj4g DQo+IAlodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vdDJ0cmcvd2lzaGkvd2lraS9IYWNrYXRob24tLVBhcnRp Y2lwYW50LVF1ZXN0aW9ubmFpcmUNCj4gDQo+IFBsZWFzZSBqb2luIG9uIE1vbmRheSB2aWENCj4g DQo+IAlodHRwczovL2ppdHNpLnRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL3QydHJnLXdpc2hpDQo+IA0KPiBHcsO8 w59lLCBDYXJzdGVuDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBUMlRSRyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gVDJUUkdAaXJ0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0 cHM6Ly93d3cuaXJ0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90MnRyZw0KDQo= From nobody Thu Feb 22 03:06:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8374512E91F for ; 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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:05:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jyN6IARc-R2M; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:05:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (bilbo.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33101BE4C; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:05:53 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1519297553; bh=Dlb1Tx08SOlRZ0/L9fB83xKpLwsDeUcGUQTgQ6EBdhQ=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=2212zIPTD5sN85W3I1t9uBv/LEAEDhRUEROKzWEq8k6t2WavcVfSbWcq85y4fiO3I f16LmbN/ylsiseTmEN+EyQRJdUOrB4apr8iCK3TU4a662mz1h2Fjy4UlYBjTUt12OW Cvs57m83tzGze5/WhA4SQ9Hz3roWq+B9TTAB+CV0= To: Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; url= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:05:52 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cLa6Jsl9dvePLdDiplqQn1NGmdL63AlCj" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 11:06:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --cLa6Jsl9dvePLdDiplqQn1NGmdL63AlCj Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="VQudv0ZbCKA7KIeYtvwKzcmTYHzzH9h2S"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad Message-ID: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: --VQudv0ZbCKA7KIeYtvwKzcmTYHzzH9h2S Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7958087A64D7EDB809AB9CB8" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7958087A64D7EDB809AB9CB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mohit, Sorry for the slow response... On 13/02/18 12:44, Mohit Sethi wrote: > Hi Stefan, >=20 > Thanks for the detailed review. We have submitted updated versions to > address your concerns. You can find the latest version (-11) here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11 and the dif= f > from the earlier version which you reviewed (-09) here: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/tools/rfcdiff/rfcdiff.pyht?url1=3Dhttps://tools.= ietf.org/id/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-09.txt&url2=3Dhttps://tools.ietf= =2Eorg/id/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-11.txt >=20 >=20 > Here are our responses to your comments: >=20 >> I wasn't >> clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly >> meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If >> the intended readership is someone else, then who? >> And will the current text be useful for that set of >> folks? >=20 > The draft says in the abstract "This document can be used by IoT > standards specifications as a reference for details about security > considerations applying to the specified protocol.". Will this draft > solve all the IoT security problems and save the world? No. That was > never the intention. The draft provides a summary/collection of major > security challenges for IoT and the existing tools and protocols that > are available. This would serve as a good read for those designing new > protocols. And instead of repeating many of the generic security > considerations in each draft,=C3=82=C2=A0 they could simply refer to th= is document. So I'm not sure that the text in the abstract is really right, but maybe it's just me misinterpreting that. I do think this is a useful read for those writing code and specs for protocols in this space, but I do not think they can "simply refer to this" in order to deal with the challenges they face. If the abstract said this is background material but implementers and specification writers need to figure out and document their specific threat models, and mitigations based on those, then that'd be better. The reason I asked about this is that it's fairly common to find internet drafts where the security considerations just says "go read RFCxxxx" and I don't think pointers like that to this document would be a good outcome here. >=20 >> (Note that I suggest referring to rfc 8240 and the LPWAN >> overview draft and am an editor for both of those. I do >> think they'd be good additions, but didn't want you to think >> I'm sneakily trying to up my h-index:-) >=20 > They are now added at relevant places in the document. >=20 >> - 50 pages, sheesh >=20 > The draft is currently 30 pages long with 10 pages of references. Yes, > it is relatively long. But this an RG document that summarizes a lot of= > things. Fair 'nuff I guess. >=20 >> - p1: crap code is surely the biggest security challlenge >> =C3=82=C2=A0 here, if this doc is to be useful it'll need to recognise= >> that. >=20 > The draft says in section 3: "Vulnerable Software: Things in the > Internet of Things rely on software that might contain bugs.=C3=82=C2=A0= This > makes the things vulnerable to many different types of attacks, > depending on the criticality of the bugs, e.g., buffer overflows or lac= k > of authentication." Yes, that is point#10 in section 3. Personally I think that's the biggest challenge in this space and deserves to be better highlighted. And it's not simply vulns, (all systems will have some CVEs) - some of the code we've seen deployed really is just very very crappy e.g. with default admin/admin access exposed to the Internet in gazillions of cameras all findable via shodan. IMO such cases aren't really "bugs." I forget if the draft says somewhere that if you deploy crap, that will be found and exploited, but it probably ought. And a couple of pointers to examples of that having happened would be good too. >=20 >> - p3: I don't see the point of sales-speak such as "The >> =C3=82=C2=A0 things that are part of the Internet of Things are no >> longer unresponsive and have transformed into computing >> devices that understand and react to the environment they >> reside in." >=20 > Not a sales pitch but rephrased anyhow. >=20 >> - p4, the lifecycle doesn't start when a tangible device is >> =C3=82=C2=A0 manufactured but rather when the oldest bit of code the >> ends up in the device was written.=C3=82=C2=A0 That's a significant >> point, esp for smaller vendors who often re-use unpatched >> old builds that "work" but may be wildly insecure. >> - p4, I'd argue that the lifecycle could include some >> recognition of OSS, but I'm not sure how to properly >> include that. >> - p4, the lifecycle could also include an on-the-shelf phase >> =C3=82=C2=A0 and a phase where a device is re-badged by some vendor wh= o >> wasn't the actual original manuf.=C3=82=C2=A0 Such phases can >> significantly complicate s/w update and bootstrapping. >> - p4, there are two other end-states that probably ought be >> =C3=82=C2=A0 part of the lifecycle - where a vendor end-of-life's a >> device type that's still in use and where a device is simply >> forgotten but keeps on trucking.=20 >=20 > Good points. We have added a paragraph before Figure 1 stating that the= > described lifecycle is a simplified model that can be extended, e.g., > with the situations that you describe. Fair enough. I'd highlight it more, but that's maybe a matter of opinion. For me, figure 1 still seems too much focused on what larger manufs will/can do for sets of devices sold to larger customers. >=20 >> - p7, section 2.2 seems pointless if it's not used later in >> =C3=82=C2=A0 the document - you may as well delete this. FWIW, I don't= >> find figure 3 useful. >=20 > Removed. >=20 >> - p9, the list seems to me to be very for-profit-vendor >> =C3=82=C2=A0 oriented.=C3=82=C2=A0 I wonder would a non-profit or devi= ce-using >> organisation write a different list? I think they would, >> e.g. they might include "crap s/w" and "attempted capture >> via proprietary APIs/data formats/cloudy services" as >> threats. >=20 > We do say that the list is not-exhaustive. Some of it has more to do > with business security than actual device/system security. I still think there'd be value in the RG trying to reflect inputs here from open-source developers, individual end users and maybe pentesters. Did anyone try get review from such folks? (Note: I'm not saying I know what they'd say, or if it'd make much difference, but I do wonder.) >> - p11, I would argue that privacy deserves much more >> =C3=82=C2=A0 attention in this document than this, and that this >> document isn't much use without that. For example, it's >> important to include the scenario where a static sensor >> emits a packet due to the presence/absence of people - in >> that scenario anyone who can see that packet can potentially >> invade the privacy of the people involved.=C3=82=C2=A0 You do include >> more in section 5, but see my comment below about how that >> section is(n't:-) organised. >=20 > We have added this example to Section 5.9. >=20 >> - p20, "the fact is that many IoT devices and systems have >> =C3=82=C2=A0 very limited security." It seems a bit late to say this o= n >> page 20:-) >=20 > Added some text earlier in the document (for example, in the abstract).= >=20 >> - p21, I'm not sure an RFC is a good place to wonder about >> =C3=82=C2=A0 potential future regulation, unless that's to be done in = a >> more thorough manner. I'd say deleting the last two >> paragraphs of section 4.3 and replacing those with a single >> sentence that "redional regulations aren't unlikely" might >> be better.=20 >=20 > Removed some text and added that regional regulations aren't unlikely. >=20 >> >> - p22, I don't agree with the crypto points made (IMO, only >> =C3=82=C2=A0 devices that can verify an occasional signature ought be >> exposed to the Internet) - but even so the references here >> aren't good - curve 25519 ought be the main ECC reference >> relating to lessened CPU requirements. It's also a surprise >> to not see a mention of chacha. >=20 > Added references to curve 25519 and chacha. Great. I still think the RG should consider whether to make a strong recommendation that devices that are incapable of verifying a reasonable signature are really highly likely to cause trouble. IOW, couldn't the RG RECOMMEND that such devices ought not be even indirectly exposed to the Internet, given the real-world threats faced? If the RG did have consensus on that, then that would I think help those developing standards and subsequent users of devices built to those standards. >=20 >> >> - p12, "Thus, ensuring a proper level of security in an IoT >> =C3=82=C2=A0 system at any point of time is challenging.=C3=82=C2=A0 T= o address >> this challenge, a process for secure product creation is >> required to ensure that an IoT system is secure and no >> security risks are present." That's just silly - aiming for >> a perfect system ("no security risks") is pointless as those >> do not exist. >=20 > Rephrased >=20 >> - p13, 4.1 should have some mention of LPWANs and indeed >> =C3=82=C2=A0 those deserve more text in general as the set of usable >> security mechanisms and challenges differ in those parts of >> networks.=C3=82=C2=A0 You do mention LPWAN in 5.1.4 - which confused m= e >> as that text probably should be here in 4.x.=C3=82=C2=A0 You might als= o >> wanna reference the LPWAN overview draft, currently in IETF >> LC.=20 >=20 > Added in 4.1. >=20 >> >> - p16 and elsewhere - the state-of-the-art text should >> =C3=82=C2=A0 really try to indicate which things are or more, or less,= >> importanct. That can be tricky, but e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 presenting HIP as= >> being of equal importance to (D)TLS here isn't useful, nor >> particularly credible. I also wonder if OSCOAP is as mature >> and important as the text implies. >=20 > Text has been adapted to make clear that TLS, DTLS are the most > important protocols. Wording is added to make clear that HIP is less > relevant and OSCoAP is relatively new. >=20 >> - p21, I don't get the logic behind the organisation of >> =C3=82=C2=A0 section 5, it seems to be a just-so list if things >> described at fairly different levels of detail, e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 5.1 v= s >> 5.2. I'd say a bit of thought as to how to organise this >> section could lead to a better organised text.=C3=82=C2=A0 I'm not sur= e >> how that'd be best done myself, but perhaps some discussion >> within the RG would help there. >=20 > Section 5.2 is much shorter since the RG decided to include that > material in a different Internet Draft. >=20 >> - p24, homomorphic crypto? Huh? I don't buy that at all. >> =C3=82=C2=A0 And following the [SEAL] reference leads to a dead end. >> If you want to make a claim like this more detail would be >> needed. I'd say deleting this is best. >=20 > The text says that it is limited in use. However, this is an area in > which many people are working and thus, we would rather keep it. We hav= e > updated the reference. Microsoft updated it in the last months. My scepticism remains unchanged:-) I don't think this is useful background for the intended audience until after someone has documented a usable scheme e.g. via a CFRG RFC. >=20 >> - p28 - how is referring to an expired draft from 9 years >> =C3=82=C2=A0 ago (yes, 2009!) useful? >=20 > Removed. >=20 >> - p28, [iotsu] is better referred to via rfc 8240 and I >> =C3=82=C2=A0 think a lot of the text in 5.4 is likely included in that= >> report. The overlap is probably fine, but it'd be no harm to >> just check to see if anything else from 8240 would be worth >> including here. >=20 > Updated the reference to RFC 8240. >=20 >> - p33, at the start of 5.9 "Users" is the wrong term, you >> =C3=82=C2=A0 should say "People" - that's not just a nit, but an >> important difference (and one worth explicitly calling out) >> as the people whose privacy is affected by devices need not >> be "users" in any sense at all. Automatic number plate >> scanners or camera based systems are usually good examples. >=20 > Updated as suggested. Thanks. I think it'd be useful to explicitly point out the difference though - the set of people affected by devices can be much bigger than the set of users of those devices, and implementers and people writing standards ought to, but perhaps don't, consider both, esp. when it comes to privacy issues. >=20 >> - p34, in 5.10 you could add some mention of and reference >> =C3=82=C2=A0 to methods for h/w tamper detection/resistance. >=20 > Added >=20 >> >> - p36 says "Thus, a potential approach is the definition and >> =C3=82=C2=A0 standardization of security profiles,..." That conclusion= >> is not justified based on the text of this document. >> (Where's there anything that implies that this conclusion is >> warranted?) Secondly, I don't agree with the conclusion >> itself - in the case of RPL that approach has lead to >> nothing good happening that I've seen, and I'd expect it to >> lead to more fig-leaves if applied in other cases. Now, >> while I may be wrong, and your conlusion may be right, I >> think I'm fairly safe in saying that much more justification >> is needed before this conclusion could be credibly drawn. >=20 > Removed. Thanks. That does leave section 6 without "next steps" though doesn't it? I guess you could say that implementers and those writing spec need to consider how all of these issues (and those that emerge later) affect their work, and need to devote real effort to addressing these issues, and (for the spec writers) say how they've done that, so that those reading and implementing are less likely to screw up yet again;-) Cheers, S. >=20 > If you don't find some of your comments here, then we chose not to take= > any action on it. Please let us know if something is still needed. >=20 > Oscar, Sandeep and Mohit >=20 > On 01/05/2018 06:10 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> Hiya, >> >> Carsten asked me to take a look at this draft and >> I said I would over the holidays, so I'm only a >> wee bit later than promised:-) >> >> In general, I think some more work is needed. Aside >> from the specific points in the attached, I wasn't >> clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly >> meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If >> the intended readership is someone else, then who? >> And will the current text be useful for that set of >> folks? >> >> Apologies in advance if some of the issues I raise >> have been discussed in the RG before - I haven't >> had time to participate in the RG to date. (I'm also >> not subscribed to the RG list so please do cc me >> on any follow ups.) >> >> Cheers, >> S. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> T2TRG mailing list >> T2TRG@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg >=20 >=20 --=20 PGP key change time for me. New-ID 7B172BEA; old-ID 805F8DA2 expires Jan 24 2018. NewWithOld sigs in keyservers. 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(8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1MC8dou032404; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:08:39 GMT To: Stephen Farrell , Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:08:38 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6OU41uUTacTG9W4rflOku0Dg88r612Edx" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:08:51 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --6OU41uUTacTG9W4rflOku0Dg88r612Edx Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Uxq8GvOKm5TlcURGPA6FvaPXqolc82v4d"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Stephen Farrell , Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad Message-ID: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: --Uxq8GvOKm5TlcURGPA6FvaPXqolc82v4d Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D1F3759D9E8915EC4D901BB5" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D1F3759D9E8915EC4D901BB5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stephen, On 22.02.18 12:05, Stephen Farrell wrote: > I still think the RG should consider whether to make a strong > recommendation that devices that are incapable of verifying a > reasonable signature are really highly likely to cause trouble. > IOW, couldn't the RG RECOMMEND that such devices ought not be > even indirectly exposed to the Internet, given the real-world > threats faced? If the RG did have consensus on that, then that > would I think help those developing standards and subsequent > users of devices built to those standards. I think this depends on just how connected we are talking about. Where does one draw the line?=C2=A0 Surely we have seen Bluetooth exploits, for= example.=C2=A0 What about serial devices?=C2=A0 Does an actuator that tak= es a simple +/- count?=C2=A0 To put this into some context, let's talk about automotive vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 A classic way into a car is via the 3G interface in the entertainment system, but an equally possible way in, as Cantor et al demonstrated was via the diagnostic port.=C2=A0 Should a brake actuator require authentication on the CAM?=C2=A0 How many ms do yo= u get or how many mw can you spend on the op before it impacts the distance an electric vehicle can travel before its next charge?=C2=A0 A careful drawing of the line is in order for any such recommendation, and the parameters of that recommendation are worthy of exploration. > >>> - p12, "Thus, ensuring a proper level of security in an IoT >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 system at any point of time is challenging.=C3=82=C2=A0 = To address >>> this challenge, a process for secure product creation is >>> required to ensure that an IoT system is secure and no >>> security risks are present." That's just silly - aiming for >>> a perfect system ("no security risks") is pointless as those >>> do not exist. >> Rephrased >> >>> - p13, 4.1 should have some mention of LPWANs and indeed >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 those deserve more text in general as the set of usable >>> security mechanisms and challenges differ in those parts of >>> networks.=C3=82=C2=A0 You do mention LPWAN in 5.1.4 - which confused = me >>> as that text probably should be here in 4.x.=C3=82=C2=A0 You might al= so >>> wanna reference the LPWAN overview draft, currently in IETF >>> LC.=20 >> Added in 4.1. >> >>> - p16 and elsewhere - the state-of-the-art text should >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 really try to indicate which things are or more, or less= , >>> importanct. That can be tricky, but e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 presenting HIP a= s >>> being of equal importance to (D)TLS here isn't useful, nor >>> particularly credible. I also wonder if OSCOAP is as mature >>> and important as the text implies. >> Text has been adapted to make clear that TLS, DTLS are the most >> important protocols. Wording is added to make clear that HIP is less >> relevant and OSCoAP is relatively new. >> >>> - p21, I don't get the logic behind the organisation of >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 section 5, it seems to be a just-so list if things >>> described at fairly different levels of detail, e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 5.1 = vs >>> 5.2. I'd say a bit of thought as to how to organise this >>> section could lead to a better organised text.=C3=82=C2=A0 I'm not su= re >>> how that'd be best done myself, but perhaps some discussion >>> within the RG would help there. >> Section 5.2 is much shorter since the RG decided to include that >> material in a different Internet Draft. >> >>> - p24, homomorphic crypto? Huh? I don't buy that at all. >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 And following the [SEAL] reference leads to a dead end. >>> If you want to make a claim like this more detail would be >>> needed. I'd say deleting this is best. >> The text says that it is limited in use. However, this is an area in >> which many people are working and thus, we would rather keep it. We ha= ve >> updated the reference. Microsoft updated it in the last months. > My scepticism remains unchanged:-) > > I don't think this is useful background for the intended > audience until after someone has documented a usable scheme > e.g. via a CFRG RFC. > >>> - p28 - how is referring to an expired draft from 9 years >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 ago (yes, 2009!) useful? >> Removed. >> >>> - p28, [iotsu] is better referred to via rfc 8240 and I >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 think a lot of the text in 5.4 is likely included in tha= t >>> report. The overlap is probably fine, but it'd be no harm to >>> just check to see if anything else from 8240 would be worth >>> including here. >> Updated the reference to RFC 8240. >> >>> - p33, at the start of 5.9 "Users" is the wrong term, you >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 should say "People" - that's not just a nit, but an >>> important difference (and one worth explicitly calling out) >>> as the people whose privacy is affected by devices need not >>> be "users" in any sense at all. Automatic number plate >>> scanners or camera based systems are usually good examples. >> Updated as suggested. > Thanks. I think it'd be useful to explicitly point out the > difference though - the set of people affected by devices can > be much bigger than the set of users of those devices, and > implementers and people writing standards ought to, but perhaps > don't, consider both, esp. when it comes to privacy issues. > >>> - p34, in 5.10 you could add some mention of and reference >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 to methods for h/w tamper detection/resistance. >> Added >> >>> - p36 says "Thus, a potential approach is the definition and >>> =C3=82=C2=A0 standardization of security profiles,..." That conclusio= n >>> is not justified based on the text of this document. >>> (Where's there anything that implies that this conclusion is >>> warranted?) Secondly, I don't agree with the conclusion >>> itself - in the case of RPL that approach has lead to >>> nothing good happening that I've seen, and I'd expect it to >>> lead to more fig-leaves if applied in other cases. Now, >>> while I may be wrong, and your conlusion may be right, I >>> think I'm fairly safe in saying that much more justification >>> is needed before this conclusion could be credibly drawn. >> Removed. > Thanks. That does leave section 6 without "next steps" > though doesn't it? I guess you could say that implementers > and those writing spec need to consider how all of these > issues (and those that emerge later) affect their work, > and need to devote real effort to addressing these issues, > and (for the spec writers) say how they've done that, so > that those reading and implementing are less likely to > screw up yet again;-) > > Cheers, > S. > >> If you don't find some of your comments here, then we chose not to tak= e >> any action on it. Please let us know if something is still needed. >> >> Oscar, Sandeep and Mohit >> >> On 01/05/2018 06:10 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >>> Hiya, >>> >>> Carsten asked me to take a look at this draft and >>> I said I would over the holidays, so I'm only a >>> wee bit later than promised:-) >>> >>> In general, I think some more work is needed. Aside >>> from the specific points in the attached, I wasn't >>> clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly >>> meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If >>> the intended readership is someone else, then who? >>> And will the current text be useful for that set of >>> folks? >>> >>> Apologies in advance if some of the issues I raise >>> have been discussed in the RG before - I haven't >>> had time to participate in the RG to date. (I'm also >>> not subscribed to the RG list so please do cc me >>> on any follow ups.) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> S. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> T2TRG mailing list >>> T2TRG@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg >> > > > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg --------------D1F3759D9E8915EC4D901BB5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stephen,


On 22.02.18 12:05, Stephen Farrell wrote:
I still think the RG should consider whether to make a strong
recommendation that devices that are incapable of verifying a
reasonable signature are really highly likely to cause trouble.
IOW, couldn't the RG RECOMMEND that such devices ought not be
even indirectly exposed to the Internet, given the real-world
threats faced? If the RG did have consensus on that, then that
would I think help those developing standards and subsequent
users of devices built to those standards.

I think this depends on just how connected we are talking about. Where does one draw the line?=C2=A0 Surely we have seen Bluetooth exploits, for example.=C2=A0 What about serial devices?=C2=A0 Does an= actuator that takes a simple +/- count?=C2=A0 To put this into some context, l= et's talk about automotive vulnerabilities.=C2=A0 A classic way into a car= is via the 3G interface in the entertainment system, but an equally possible way in, as Cantor et al demonstrated was via the diagnostic port.=C2=A0 Should a brake actuator require authentication on the CAM= ?=C2=A0 How many ms do you get or how many mw can you spend on the op before it impacts the distance an electric vehicle can travel before its next charge?=C2=A0 A careful drawing of the line is in order for any = such recommendation, and the parameters of that recommendation are worthy of exploration.




        
- p12, "Thus, ensuring a proper level of security in an IoT
=C3=82=C2=A0 system at any point of time is challenging.=C3=82=C2=A0 To a=
ddress
this challenge, a process for secure product creation is
required to ensure that an IoT system is secure and no
security risks are present." That's just silly - aiming for
a perfect system ("no security risks") is pointless as those
do not exist.
Rephrased

- p13, 4.1 should have some mention of LPWANs an=
d indeed
=C3=82=C2=A0 those deserve more text in general as the set of usable
security mechanisms and challenges differ in those parts of
networks.=C3=82=C2=A0 You do mention LPWAN in 5.1.4 - which confused me
as that text probably should be here in 4.x.=C3=82=C2=A0 You might also
wanna reference the LPWAN overview draft, currently in IETF
LC.=20
Added in 4.1.

- p16 and elsewhere - the state-of-the-art text should
=C3=82=C2=A0 really try to indicate which things are or more, or less,
importanct. That can be tricky, but e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 presenting HIP as
being of equal importance to (D)TLS here isn't useful, nor
particularly credible. I also wonder if OSCOAP is as mature
and important as the text implies.
Text has been adapted to make clear that TLS, DTLS are the most
important protocols. Wording is added to make clear that HIP is less
relevant and OSCoAP is relatively new.

- p21, I don't get the logic behind the organisa=
tion of
=C3=82=C2=A0 section 5, it seems to be a just-so list if things
described at fairly different levels of detail, e.g.=C3=82=C2=A0 5.1 vs
5.2. I'd say a bit of thought as to how to organise this
section could lead to a better organised text.=C3=82=C2=A0 I'm not sure
how that'd be best done myself, but perhaps some discussion
within the RG would help there.
Section 5.2 is much shorter since the RG decided to include that
material in a different Internet Draft.

- p24, homomorphic crypto? Huh? I don't buy that=
 at all.
=C3=82=C2=A0 And following the [SEAL] reference leads to a dead end.
If you want to make a claim like this more detail would be
needed. I'd say deleting this is best.
The text says that it is limited in use. However, this is an area in
which many people are working and thus, we would rather keep it. We have
updated the reference. Microsoft updated it in the last months.
My scepticism remains unchanged:-)

I don't think this is useful background for the intended
audience until after someone has documented a usable scheme
e.g. via a CFRG RFC.


        
- p28 - how is referring to an expired draft fro=
m 9 years
=C3=82=C2=A0 ago (yes, 2009!) useful?
Removed.

- p28, [iotsu] is better referred to via rfc 824=
0 and I
=C3=82=C2=A0 think a lot of the text in 5.4 is likely included in that
report. The overlap is probably fine, but it'd be no harm to
just check to see if anything else from 8240 would be worth
including here.
Updated the reference to RFC 8240.

- p33, at the start of 5.9 "Users" is the wrong =
term, you
=C3=82=C2=A0 should say "People" - that's not just a nit, but an
important difference (and one worth explicitly calling out)
as the people whose privacy is affected by devices need not
be "users" in any sense at all. Automatic number plate
scanners or camera based systems are usually good examples.
Updated as suggested.
Thanks. I think it'd be useful to explicitly point out the
difference though - the set of people affected by devices can
be much bigger than the set of users of those devices, and
implementers and people writing standards ought to, but perhaps
don't, consider both, esp. when it comes to privacy issues.


        
- p34, in 5.10 you could add some mention of and=
 reference
=C3=82=C2=A0 to methods for h/w tamper detection/resistance.
Added

- p36 says "Thus, a potential approach is the definition and
=C3=82=C2=A0 standardization of security profiles,..." That conclusion
is not justified based on the text of this document.
(Where's there anything that implies that this conclusion is
warranted?) Secondly, I don't agree with the conclusion
itself - in the case of RPL that approach has lead to
nothing good happening that I've seen, and I'd expect it to
lead to more fig-leaves if applied in other cases. Now,
while I may be wrong, and your conlusion may be right, I
think I'm fairly safe in saying that much more justification
is needed before this conclusion could be credibly drawn.
Removed.
Thanks. That does leave section 6 without "next steps"
though doesn't it? I guess you could say that implementers
and those writing spec need to consider how all of these
issues (and those that emerge later) affect their work,
and need to devote real effort to addressing these issues,
and (for the spec writers) say how they've done that, so
that those reading and implementing are less likely to
screw up yet again;-)

Cheers,
S.

If you don't find some of your comments here, then we chose not to take
any action on it. Please let us know if something is still needed.

Oscar, Sandeep and Mohit

On 01/05/2018 06:10 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
Hiya,

Carsten asked me to take a look at this draft and
I said I would over the holidays, so I'm only a
wee bit later than promised:-)

In general, I think some more work is needed. Aside
from the specific points in the attached, I wasn't
clear who are the intended readers - if this is mainly
meant for the RG, then does it need to be an RFC? If
the intended readership is someone else, then who?
And will the current text be useful for that set of
folks?

Apologies in advance if some of the issues I raise
have been discussed in the RG before - I haven't
had time to participate in the RG to date. (I'm also
not subscribed to the RG list so please do cc me
on any follow ups.)

Cheers,
S.




_______________________________________________
T2TRG mailing list
T2TR=
G@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg


      

_______________________________________________
T2TRG mailing list
T2TR=
G@irtf.org
https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg

--------------D1F3759D9E8915EC4D901BB5-- --Uxq8GvOKm5TlcURGPA6FvaPXqolc82v4d-- --6OU41uUTacTG9W4rflOku0Dg88r612Edx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmNC9kEYdsJKnsmEdh7ZrRtnSejMFAlqOsscACgkQh7ZrRtnS ejOwOggAm9UvLikXzsjbU9zQwJY236EcInmtWtROpOi/R0BPA7/FSM/brEkPWcJN D4zbVa6lFBwMtJRsNFzh64Nf1SLteF2NPmh8rlnMypMrXLRoKP6oaoEXLunB3PSH /melqQbYN6y72SNfHhT2Aooq1W1Cz+AN3HI+VbNUcXZ6xvSwyFcmJtcCIbwUTg5m Tp10++NgEYZM3zdANKKC5xlykzaiXIWYdXObj1dDllEq8+JCis2f3l8QaddqhI7O Yza850LDBuhq9xoEd4KyBsCktFu32QKeDRc/3Kwy0FoANNHp6uFP5TBYnQN4IitV 5sHKrC83Hmuy5/HVNwSB6haLDkW3/Q== =HRSB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6OU41uUTacTG9W4rflOku0Dg88r612Edx-- From nobody Thu Feb 22 04:42:02 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7156812426E for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 04:42:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lUa8nddV7XLA for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 04:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3112012EA87 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 04:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A64BE51; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:41:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oidw11HsjqQN; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:41:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [134.226.36.93] (bilbo.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.93]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63D9ABE4C; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:41:53 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1519303313; bh=pb57Hc175fEf+VGLk5sQQGk9KMwjy1Spd8V3Nq0XirU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=SImqhk5j1T/23Q2oH0HwIdSFN46sw0pMdkifyqo+MMEI7TUwQfFzmbCUIqiba/tb3 2VdGM6F0rdZGA3pS8wyJ7XnhHgsNucJ4FGIrgzxrpzwhxEkGr8mGPGdSlaA6u6A+xp hvU6iVdIplrZu4Mj6SC2P+hlvTaQjkb88I1aHzoU= To: Eliot Lear , Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=5BB5A6EA5765D2C5863CAE275AB2FAF17B172BEA; url= Message-ID: <437bcece-df2d-230f-357b-9208fe0e88ac@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:41:52 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QTOHXUCFRE0sVWdrTrXVExFMX0g7xO6as" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:42:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QTOHXUCFRE0sVWdrTrXVExFMX0g7xO6as Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MDe5eR2romzql2metiKpXuBQYkgZlMqWJ"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stephen Farrell To: Eliot Lear , Mohit Sethi , t2trg@irtf.org Cc: "Garcia-Morchon O, Oscar" , Jim Schaad Message-ID: <437bcece-df2d-230f-357b-9208fe0e88ac@cs.tcd.ie> Subject: Re: [T2TRG] review of draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons References: <4c4023dd-4f36-eb55-8178-2e12f40c52a8@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: --MDe5eR2romzql2metiKpXuBQYkgZlMqWJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------675BB7D594A56A8367B1AB97" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------675BB7D594A56A8367B1AB97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 22/02/18 12:08, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Stephen, >=20 >=20 > On 22.02.18 12:05, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> I still think the RG should consider whether to make a strong >> recommendation that devices that are incapable of verifying a >> reasonable signature are really highly likely to cause trouble. >> IOW, couldn't the RG RECOMMEND that such devices ought not be >> even indirectly exposed to the Internet, given the real-world >> threats faced? If the RG did have consensus on that, then that >> would I think help those developing standards and subsequent >> users of devices built to those standards. >=20 > I think this depends on just how connected we are talking about. Where > does one draw the line?=C3=82=C2=A0 Surely we have seen Bluetooth explo= its, for > example.=C3=82=C2=A0 What about serial devices?=C3=82=C2=A0 Does an act= uator that takes a > simple +/- count?=C3=82=C2=A0 To put this into some context, let's talk= about > automotive vulnerabilities.=C3=82=C2=A0 A classic way into a car is via= the 3G > interface in the entertainment system, but an equally possible way in, > as Cantor et al demonstrated was via the diagnostic port.=C3=82=C2=A0 S= hould a > brake actuator require authentication on the CAM?=C3=82=C2=A0 How many = ms do you > get or how many mw can you spend on the op before it impacts the > distance an electric vehicle can travel before its next charge?=C3=82=C2= =A0 A > careful drawing of the line is in order for any such recommendation, an= d > the parameters of that recommendation are worthy of exploration. I agree that any "baseline" crypto capability recommendation would need such exploration and justification. OTOH, we do kinda know that s/w update pretty much needs signatures, which is why I suggest that the ability to verify some signatures at some time(s) could be a good baseline capability to consider. (That's not to suggest that all inbound messages to all devices be signed, as that'd not be a good plan:-) What I'm suggesting is that the RG do the exercise of trying to see if such a baseline could be usefully described. (And as I'm not on the RG list, it could be that that's been discussed, but if so, that's not visible in this draft.) Cheers, S. --------------675BB7D594A56A8367B1AB97 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x7B172BEA.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x7B172BEA.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQINBFo9UDIBEADUH4ZPcUnX5WWRWO4kEkHea5Y5eEvZjSwe/YA+G0nrTuOU9nem CP5PMvmh5Cg8gBTyWyN4Z2+O25p9Tja5zUb+vPMWYvOtokRrp46yhFZOmiS5b6kT q0IqYzsEv5HI58S+QtaFq978CRa4xH9Gi9u4yzUmT03QNIGDXE37honcAM4MOEtE gvw4fVhVWJuyy3w//0F2tzKrEMjmL5VGuD/Q9+G/7abuXiYNNd9ZFjv4625AUWwy +pAh4EKzS1FE7BOZp9daMu9MUQmDqtZUbUv0Q+DnQAB/4tNncejJPz0p2z3MWCp5 iSwHiQvytYgatMp34a50l6CWqa13n6vY8VcPlIqOVz+7L+WiVfxLbeVqBwV+4uL9 to9zLF9IyUvl94lCxpscR2kgRgpM6A5LylRDkR6E0oudFnJgb097ZaNyuY1ETghV B5Uir1GCYChs8NUNumTHXiOkuzk+Gs4DAHx/a78YxBolKHi+esLH8r2k4LyM2lp5 FmBKjG7cGcpBGmWavACYEa7rwAadg4uBx9SHMV5i33vDXQUZcmW0vslQ2Is02NMK 7uB7E7HlVE1IM1zNkVTYYGkKreU8DVQu8qNOtPVE/CdaCJ/pbXoYeHz2B1Nvbl9t lyWxn5XiHzFPJleXc0ksb9SkJokAfwTSZzTxeQPER8la5lsEEPbU/cDTcwARAQAB 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id poudDEc3eJ9H for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E177124235 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2018 12:44:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1519418681; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: 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AQHTrOcgo03BH0MQqEeOMuxPiTTJRg== Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 20:44:40 +0000 Message-ID: <8790AF73-EA79-41A2-9896-DE9BAFC08CDD@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [87.95.226.8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <93A3F525EA7632498EB9E1D04463AE24@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7n65l7YQogzWNfBbvH/SwODB6TN54 mC2AMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY/5ph4KprBUXp0s2MC5m6WLk5JAQMJE48HkbcxcjF4eQwGFG id4Zd1khnCWMEs0f3zKDVLEJ2EtMXvOREcQWEVCV2DhzIyuILSxQKjGhaxOQzQEUr5L4eqoA okRP4tj332AlLEDl29+cBxvDCzRm9tM/YHFGATGJ76fWMIHYzALiEreezGeCOEhAYskeiHoJ AVGJl4//sULY8hIzzt6CqteTuDF1ChuEbS1x5v0hZghbW2LZwtdQuwQlTs58wjKBUXgWkhWz kLTPQtI+C0n7LCTtCxhZVzGKFqcWJ+WmGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIEhv3BLb8NdjC+fO54 iFGAg1GJh3dq6YQoIdbEsuLK3EOMEhzMSiK8Zc/7o4R4UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNSiw8xSnOwKInz nvTkjRISSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJMnFwSjUwhk5vU4urVTlXuHjrteO2rw4KbdWbZmoV5M+/8fsu tz+XVq3nOLqxxiY0+P42hTkaAdsv3TVi+rFCke21+h6fHd8YmZanH9e1efS+Ynuixo870R+f ubH9rL7Yt0nlD5fnjpm1P39cer9r74Pl86a1SLBUzp/LtrF1x5qG+6JZTnVLBdve9Z5y3qHE UpyRaKjFXFScCAC++aRZdwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Reminder: WISHI Semantic Interoperability Test Event planning call (February 26th, 2018) and questionnaire X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 20:44:45 -0000 Hi all, Remember that we have a WISHI Semantic Interoperability Test Event planning= call coming next Monday, February 26th 6:30-7:00 AM PST (15:30-16:00 CET).= This is only a 30 minute call with a topic of planning for the test event = in the IETF hackathon. For details, see: https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Agenda-items Join the call here: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/t2trg-wishi Also, if you are planning to join the hackathon (with or without running co= de) and haven't yet filled the questionnaire, please do so as soon as possi= ble: https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon--Participant-Questionnaire Thanks, Ari= From nobody Sat Feb 24 00:04:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD21126D45; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 00:03:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BpTacQAHyYk4; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 00:03:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14003120227; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 00:03:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w1O83Vm7021286; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:03:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from client-0185.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0185.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3zpLFG64Z9zDXfw; Sat, 24 Feb 2018 09:03:30 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 541152208.06002-906f3783a4e6b88ee7e0de21eeb0bf70 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 00:03:29 -0800 Message-Id: <42D54C90-DA66-42FB-B734-27986B87BC2E@tzi.org> To: ace , "core@ietf.org WG" , cose , cbor@ietf.org, t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF101: "FINAL" AGENDA X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 08:03:38 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the "FINAL" AGENDA for IETF101. Remember that "FINAL" means this will be the basis for printed agenda sheets, there is still some potential for changes after that. SUIT is now on top of CORE (!??). (Also, ICE has moved.) The painful ones this time include: DINRG vs. ACE, CBOR vs. TEEP, ROLL vs. traveling to OCF/WoT; also CORE vs. ANIMA, CORE vs. QUIC, CORE vs. SECDISPATCH. All times are actually in GMT (UTC+0000, DST only starts in London on March 25). (You can always get pure UTC times on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for those who want to listen from remote.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten SATURDAY/SUNDAY -- Hackathon (including various interops) MONDAY, March 19, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Blenheim ART dispatch Dispatch WG - 0930-1100 Joint = with ARTAREA Sandringham INT ipwave IP Wireless Access in Vehicular = Environments WG Palace C IRTF*** dinrg Decentralized Internet Infrastructure = Proposed RG Viscount OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Balmoral SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Richm_Chl_Tow ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Viscount INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Buckingham SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG Sandringham TSV quic QUIC WG 1550-1720 Afternoon Session II Sandringham INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Balmoral IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Viscount SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG 1740-1840 Afternoon Session III Balmoral SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Sandringham TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting TUESDAY, March 20, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Viscount ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Sandringham IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Buckingham OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Blenheim SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Park Suite ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Palace C ART ice Interactive Connectivity Establishment = WG Buckingham IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking Proposed RG Richm_Chl_Tow RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Balmoral SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning BOF 1550-1820 Afternoon Session II Balmoral ART httpbis Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG Park Suite IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking WEDNESDAY, March 21, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Viscount INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Sandringham IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Blenheim SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Park Suite TSV taps Transport Services WG 1330-1500 Afternoon Session I Viscount INT *** 6tisch IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE = 802.15.4e WG Richm_Chl_Tow RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Park Suite SEC oauth Web Authorization Protocol WG Palace C TSV rmcat RTP Media Congestion Avoidance = Techniques WG 1520-1650 Afternoon Session II Park Suite INT *** lwig Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG Buckingham SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG Viscount SEC tokbind Token Binding WG 1710-1940 IETF Plenary - Sandringham THURSDAY, March 22, 2018 0930-1200 Morning Session I Buckingham INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG Park Suite RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Sandringham TSV quic QUIC WG 1330-1530 Afternoon Session I Buckingham INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Sandringham SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1550-1750 Afternoon Session II Blenheim IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Sandringham RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting Buckingham SEC mls Messaging Layer Security BOF Balmoral TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1810-1910 Afternoon Session III Blenheim ART uta Using TLS in Applications WG Park Suite RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Balmoral TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG FRIDAY, March 23, 2018 0930-1130 Morning Session I Sandringham INT homenet Home Networking WG Blenheim RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Viscount RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG 1150-1320 Afternoon Session I Blenheim RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG - 1150 - = 1430 1330-1730 @ OCF meeting venue (Prague, colocated with W3C WoT) -- Joint meeting of OCF, W3C WoT, and T2TRG (UTC+01:00 times) From nobody Mon Feb 26 01:20:21 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CEE1204DA for ; 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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:20:16 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: "T2TRG@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Registration for the OCF-T2TRG-W3C WoT meeting in Prague Thread-Index: AQHTruMCQ8yDxrqGDESwMW5fAr/15w== Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:20:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [193.234.218.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7pW7AxclRBueb1C3eP+hhcWD0mLzx MFsAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxu4bX9kKHjJVXJvRydLAOJ+pi5GTQ0LAROLF3TOsXYxcHEIC hxkljj5azwLhLGaU2Hm2nxmkik3AXmLymo+MILaIgKpE85QNrCC2sICjxOIPW9kg4m4Say+d AKrnALL1JP5tFgYJswCVT519CmwZL9CYxu2TwcoZBcQkvp9aAxZnFhCXuPUE5iABiSV7zjND 2KISLx//Y4WwlSXWPXjCCFGvJ3Fj6hQ2CNta4t3/K8wQtrbEsoWvmSF2CUqcnPmEZQKj8Cwk K2YhaZ+FpH0WkvZZSNoXMLKuYhQtTi0uzk03MtJLLcpMLi7Oz9PLSy3ZxAgM/YNbflvtYDz4 3PEQowAHoxIP78rtk6OEWBPLiitzDzFKcDArifCuXAwU4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+xCjNwaIk zuuUZhElJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYJwRMuXGa830ngIGBb6SXrOEwP+ZnauOR7m9t1ng n+523sTAkzNhxqGnfOwbmgKuFh3NkThcKLQkN+4IT/0b9QxDJYdTt/vX6+Ye2FD+7rSRjITL iSmH/Z6rT5wSHHzpzJ/n8+PLVPzvCWxae9chvck93vpc+LX6/AM7nuyf+/2xKN88s4kvhZRY ijMSDbWYi4oTAT/mAlZ5AgAA Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Registration for the OCF-T2TRG-W3C WoT meeting in Prague X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:20:20 -0000 Hi all, If you are planning to come to the joint OCF, T2TRG, W3C WoT meeting in Pra= gue (March 23rd), please register before the end of this work week (by Satu= rday 3rd of March): https://goo.gl/forms/6J41OcplbUAPVL3J3 More information about the meeting and agenda being drafted: https://github.com/t2trg/2018-03-ocf-wot Thanks, Ari= From nobody Mon Feb 26 07:57:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FCAB126C25 for ; 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[108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y96sm3662116ita.39.2018.02.26.07.57.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:57:30 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Koster Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_994D1666-A03C-4493-828D-226CCEC94434" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <99E9FE62-8503-4AD9-A80B-5F954B01765A@smartthings.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:57:29 -0800 To: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] [WISHI] Preparation for the IETF101 Hackathon X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:57:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_994D1666-A03C-4493-828D-226CCEC94434 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii -- PLANNING FOR THE WISHI SEMANTIC INTEROP EVENT AT THE IETF101 = HACKATHON Hi , We how have the questionnaire for the upcoming IETF101 hackathon in = London, the weekend of March 17 and 18. https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon-Planning = We are inviting everyone to participate by filling out the questionnaire = (all answers are optional), even if you are not planning to show up and = connect something to the network. There is an online survey tool: https://goo.gl/forms/JvYSb8VOWizkKy262 = Or if you prefer you can go to the github repository and fork,clone, or = copy the markdown template, rename it, edit it with your answers, and = either make a PR or email the file to me: = https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/blob/master/interop/participant-questionnai= re.md = There is an example already filled out at: = https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/blob/master/interop/participant-mjkoster.md= = And you can see the current online survey answers at: = https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wsexeSXwHbMGEP02RFP_zQLlWpb_7sbSyj= gGbopAvOE/edit#gid=3D256748193 = Please fill out the survey promptly. We can use the information to plan = for a successful event. Also, if you have feedback on the questionnaire itself please comment in = the github issues or send email. Best regards, Michael= --Apple-Mail=_994D1666-A03C-4493-828D-226CCEC94434 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii -- PLANNING FOR THE WISHI SEMANTIC INTEROP EVENT AT THE = IETF101 HACKATHON

Hi = ,

We how have the = questionnaire for the upcoming IETF101 hackathon in London, the weekend = of March 17 and 18.
https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Hackathon-Planning

We are inviting = everyone to participate by filling out the questionnaire (all answers = are optional), even if you are not planning to show up and connect = something to the network.

There is an online survey tool:

Or if you prefer you can = go to the github repository and fork,clone, or copy the markdown = template, rename it, edit it with your answers, and either make a PR or = email the file to me:

There is an example already filled out at:

And you can see the current online survey answers = at:

Please fill out the survey promptly. We = can use the information to plan for a successful event.

Also, if you have = feedback on the questionnaire itself please comment in the github issues = or send email.

Best regards,

Michael
= --Apple-Mail=_994D1666-A03C-4493-828D-226CCEC94434-- From nobody Tue Feb 27 15:22:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@irtf.org Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6612812EB7D; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:11:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: t2trg@irtf.org, irtf-chair@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.73.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151977308841.5200.16781443226235572394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:11:28 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] t2trg - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 101 X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 23:11:29 -0000 Dear Carsten Bormann, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. t2trg Session 1 (2:00:00) Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Blenheim size: 200 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Thing-to-Thing Area Name: IRTF Session Requester: Carsten Bormann Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 120 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: cbor httpbis core ace lpwan 6lo roll ice suit anima i2nsf Second Priority: dnssd saag irtfopen 6tisch netconf netmod sacm artarea teep Third Priority: lwig detnet quic v6ops opsarea cfrg icnrg intarea People who must be present: Carsten Bormann Ari Keranen Resources Requested: Special Requests: Early in the week (Monday/Tuesday) would help so participants can join that then need to move on to the OCF meeting in Prague. Please also avoid any IoT related BOFs that might come up. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Feb 28 00:20:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@irtf.org Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0337A124207; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 00:20:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: t2trg@irtf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.73.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151980602397.5147.3273729913393702907@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 00:20:24 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] I-D Action: draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-12.txt X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:20:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Thing-to-Thing RG of the IRTF. Title : State-of-the-Art and Challenges for the Internet of Things Security Authors : Oscar Garcia-Morchon Sandeep S. Kumar Mohit Sethi Filename : draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-12.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2018-02-28 Abstract: The Internet of Things (IoT) concept refers to the usage of standard Internet protocols to allow for human-to-thing and thing-to-thing communication. The security needs for IoT systems are well- recognized and many standardization steps to provide security have been taken, for example, the specification of Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) secured with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). However, security challenges still exist, not only because there are some use cases that lack a suitable solution, but also because many IoT devices and systems have been designed and deployed with very limited security capabilities. In this document, we first discuss the various stages in the lifecycle of a thing. Next, we document the security threats to a thing and the challenges that one might face to protect against these threats. Lastly, we discuss the next steps needed to facilitate the deployment of secure IoT systems. This document can be used by implementors and authors of IoT specifications as a reference for details about security considerations while documenting their specific security challenges, threat models, and mitigations. This document is a product of the IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group (T2TRG). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-irtf-t2trg-iot-seccons-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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e-mailfilter02.sunet.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id w1SGO4GB127186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:24:06 +0100 Received: from smtp.user.uu.se (uuc-epost003.user.uu.se [130.238.3.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by velox.its.uu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44AF334565 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:24:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [130.238.234.185] (130.238.234.185) by uuc-epost003.user.uu.se (130.238.3.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1415.2; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:24:04 +0100 To: From: L M Feeney Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 17:24:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [130.238.234.185] X-ClientProxiedBy: uuc-epost005.user.uu.se (130.238.3.15) To uuc-epost003.user.uu.se (130.238.3.13) X-Bayes-Prob: 0.998 (Score 5, tokens from: outbound, outbound-uu-se:default, uu-se:default, base:default, @@RPTN) X-p0f-Info: os=Linux 2.6.x, link=Ethernet or modem X-CanIt-Geo: ip=130.238.3.13; country=SE; region=Uppsala; city=Uppsala; latitude=59.8667; longitude=17.6333; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.8667,17.6333&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outbound-uu-se:outbound (inherits from outbound-uu-se:default, uu-se:default, base:default) X-Canit-Stats-ID: 0aVggo4o8 - 791720ba0e25 - 20180228 X-CanIt-Archive-Cluster: PfMRe/vJWMiXwM2YIH5BVExnUnw Received-SPF: neutral (e-mailfilter02.sunet.se: 130.238.3.13 is neither permitted nor denied by domain laura.marie.feeney@it.uu.se) receiver=e-mailfilter02.sunet.se; client-ip=130.238.3.13; envelope-from=; helo=velox.its.uu.se; identity=mailfrom X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) Archived-At: Subject: [T2TRG] Inter-network Coexistence in the Internet of Things X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:24:12 -0000 Dear all, The document "Inter-network Coexistence in the Internet of Things" describes key challenges for coexistence for _administratively independent_ IoT networks sharing unlicensed spectrum. Recent research results (our own and others) demonstrate the impact of protocol-level interactions on network performance. A better understanding of these issues is needed to ensure successful deployment of IoT applications. The document identifies two opportunities for the IRTF T2TRG community. The first is to define best practices for performance evaluation and protocol design in the context of network coexistence. The second is to investigate the use of higher layer protocols to actively participate in managing network coexistence. Version -01 (2017/10/30) is available at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-feeney-t2trg-inter-network-01 Comments are most welcome. If there is interest in further discussions, I will plan to be at the London meeting next month. Regards, Laura --- Laura Marie Feeney Division of Computer Systems Uppsala University From nobody Wed Feb 28 08:50:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: t2trg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32AC312DA0C for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TD8flFaI42kY for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-x231.google.com (mail-oi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCF1D12D871 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oi0-x231.google.com with SMTP id c83so2275567oib.1 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AkIcPSsiOT/jU/+LuQvC7eHWknmf36tbg0wQkWjJFg0=; b=s4H/SiWhh2du7UVUYmExpOoOuRTVgf6ISZkMzwkdGGFAYGFR2+dKyghnxKryW4jPuc SX/AZk0uyUBGsQ1Nbfek5MNudQief6Iofj7eqr6twV1MH0xFN2/qVX+5dCchWKW/o6WR sHVi3uXboB+xHUqa+iGWW15aCIxQAygaP32lRgeTRVo4l5q/PnMCWITEysqX77s0ZA3C LUgdQepVYWpNDk0HDEmnz1H7wXDWvFyPKVu+oA3Ftd8jYVHCAgOHPQ0cTqMMR8X3zB9S Ml7dvyfwl22ChVYkljjtuN/mYe7RobUPbhZ0C2zpOyyrVF/OxcOqBenqXIGnk+PuwH64 3jow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AkIcPSsiOT/jU/+LuQvC7eHWknmf36tbg0wQkWjJFg0=; b=BQLh7Y75quIegodXqP3LNHtRxTcluR+KYLmZTCLSG9C3BqFR7pPjpdXxlz7bNKoPE5 Fhgl0A7ySXfA0QWQBAVd3EUeMLe55LLsZFnfXQNrQKGt0zIo6ki6Ago9ibqU6pJNmpji X+CKcmEb5I0z2nvAuWU4Lut4sNOvAuoKc8h8YmmfxHYo6KBw3sr/DpKS699qqZidcBgp Mnjl+5bBZ8+91hX+yEhqs85J8NSr4IgGa9Q25a+jSSJDNGYiWn9QdqHVu2ROMLh6vag4 ypziefEgTVzPELszOBNxTCK27RC/jDz5rZAQ/fCXnFppIR2xYxxKRIETu3tj27giD5Yz IzWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPC0+x8ul+9WXmH0HtdEFGXzn0NsBDWvhxfoNE3FWTgCEycxyp2e Hv1igOfH5biuzr7ZQ9S64f7R6G5Ooku2I9OnqB0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELsaShxMNtXRJyIReljV6Ft7dHbX8qCSwnXYEMYk8MNLshpNS1mhe1FLS+scyy1gscaXWkcrCZx0U4Hhq7D2xD4= X-Received: by 10.202.15.21 with SMTP id 21mr12196725oip.216.1519836623955; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:50:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.195.141 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:49:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Ted Hardie Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:49:52 -0800 Message-ID: To: L M Feeney Cc: t2trg@irtf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4f5e808d70c1672c80566488a6c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [T2TRG] Inter-network Coexistence in the Internet of Things X-BeenThere: t2trg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IRTF Thing-to-Thing Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:50:36 -0000 --f4f5e808d70c1672c80566488a6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks, I found that to be a useful summary of the issues and to have some good pointers. I'd like to add one potential work item, though, before "define best practices for performance evaluation": "describe what a useful lab setup would look like". Looking back at our own experience at building a lab, it strike me that we have many of the elements you describe but lack one: we have multiple, heterogeneous networks in a variety of topologies, but we also have a single higher-order administration. So we may actually be scheduling away some of the real-world implications by parceling out project activity in the lab. Thoughts on how to avoid that from the group would make a good addition (either to your doc or to the best practices doc). regards, Ted On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:24 AM, L M Feeney wrote: > Dear all, > > The document "Inter-network Coexistence in the Internet of Things" > describes key challenges for coexistence for _administratively independent_ > IoT networks sharing unlicensed spectrum. > > Recent research results (our own and others) demonstrate the impact of > protocol-level interactions on network performance. A better understanding > of these issues is needed to ensure successful deployment of IoT > applications. > > The document identifies two opportunities for the IRTF T2TRG community. > The first is to define best practices for performance evaluation and > protocol design in the context of network coexistence. The second is to > investigate the use of higher layer protocols to actively participate in > managing network coexistence. > > Version -01 (2017/10/30) is available at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-feeney-t2trg-inter-network-01 > Comments are most welcome. > > If there is interest in further discussions, I will plan to be at the > London meeting next month. > > Regards, > Laura > > --- > Laura Marie Feeney > Division of Computer Systems > Uppsala University > > _______________________________________________ > T2TRG mailing list > T2TRG@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg > --f4f5e808d70c1672c80566488a6c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, I found that to be a useful summary of the is= sues and to have some good pointers.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I'd like to add one po= tential work item, though, before "define best practices for performan= ce evaluation":=C2=A0 "describe what a useful lab setup would loo= k like".=C2=A0 Looking back at our own experience at building a lab, i= t strike me that we have many of the elements you describe but lack one:=C2= =A0 we have multiple, heterogeneous networks in a variety of topologies, bu= t we also have a single higher-order administration.=C2=A0 So we may actual= ly be scheduling away some of the real-world implications by parceling out = project activity in the lab.

Thoughts on how to avoid tha= t from the group would make a good addition (either to your doc or to the b= est practices doc).

regards,

Ted

On Wed, = Feb 28, 2018 at 8:24 AM, L M Feeney <laura.marie.feeney@it.uu.se= > wrote:
Dear all,

The=C2=A0 document "Inter-network Coexistence in the Internet of Thing= s" describes key challenges for coexistence for _administratively inde= pendent_ IoT networks sharing unlicensed spectrum.

Recent research results (our own and others) demonstrate the impact of prot= ocol-level interactions on network performance.=C2=A0 A better understandin= g of these issues is needed to ensure successful deployment of IoT applicat= ions.

The document identifies two opportunities for the IRTF T2TRG community. The= first is to define best practices for performance evaluation and protocol = design in the context of network coexistence.=C2=A0 The second is to invest= igate the use of higher layer protocols to actively participate in managing= network coexistence.

Version -01=C2=A0 (2017/10/30) is available at
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-feeney-t2trg-inter-network-01
Comments are most welcome.

If there is interest in further discussions, I will plan to be at the Londo= n meeting next month.

Regards,
Laura

---
Laura Marie Feeney
Division of Computer Systems
Uppsala University

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