From adam@nostrum.com Wed Aug 1 09:31:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8505E21F87FC for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:31:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l4UHPSPWmME8 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B0D21F87F8 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 09:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-435b.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-435b.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.67.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q71GVDgJ061287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 11:31:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <501959D0.3030301@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 09:31:12 -0700 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion References: In-Reply-To: X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040308050900030702020309" Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 130.129.67.91 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [Tools-discuss] Fwd: Re: Organizing presentations in the meeting materials manager X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:31:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040308050900030702020309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is definitely something to think about in terms of how presentations are re-ordered. It might also help if chairs were prompted for where in the existing list of presentations a new presentation should appear when it is first uploaded. /a -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Organizing presentations in the meeting materials manager Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 11:28:35 -0500 From: Mary Barnes To: Ted Lemon CC: IETF WG Chairs I totally agree that it is clunky. I would personally rather have the mechanism we had in the past where we manually numbered the presentations and then hit re-order. That was less time consuming (but certainly no less error prone). Mary. On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ted Lemon > wrote: On Aug 1, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mary Barnes wrote: > I'm in a WG session right now that has oodles of docs on the > agenda and the materials/presentations are not in the order of the > agenda. There is a feature to move docs up or down in the list > and I would encourage WG chairs to use that, in particular when > the text or document name in the meeting materials doesn't match > what's on the agenda. It is a bit clunky—my experience has been that it's easy to get it wrong. It would be nice if someone ported it to use the drag and drop features of some Javascript tool. BTW, I like your middle name! --------------040308050900030702020309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is definitely something to think about in terms of how presentations are re-ordered. It might also help if chairs were prompted for where in the existing list of presentations a new presentation should appear when it is first uploaded.

/a


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Organizing presentations in the meeting materials manager
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 11:28:35 -0500
From: Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>
To: Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
CC: IETF WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>


I totally agree that it is clunky. I would personally rather have the mechanism we had in the past where we manually numbered the presentations and then hit re-order.  That was less time consuming (but certainly no less error prone).  

Mary. 

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> wrote:
On Aug 1, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Mary Barnes wrote:
I'm in a WG session right now that has oodles of docs on the agenda and the materials/presentations are not in the order of the agenda.  There is a feature to move docs up or down in the list and I would encourage WG chairs to use that, in particular when the text or document name in the meeting materials doesn't match what's on the agenda.   

It is a bit clunky—my experience has been that it's easy to get it wrong.   It would be nice if someone ported it to use the drag and drop features of some Javascript tool.

BTW, I like your middle name!





--------------040308050900030702020309-- From bclaise@cisco.com Wed Aug 1 15:38:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7831921F889F; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.103, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uHfmjpeZeP0; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-sj.cisco.com (av-tac-sj.cisco.com [171.68.227.119]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E150E21F88A9; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:32 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from fire.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-sj.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q71McVqQ011891; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.21.122.183] ([10.21.122.183]) by fire.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q71McUkm005032; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:38:30 -0700 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Robert Sparks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: IESG IESG , Tools Team Discussion Subject: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:38:33 -0000 Hi, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 Regards, Benoit. From rjsparks@nostrum.com Wed Aug 1 15:41:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841EB11E8131; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1MWfq7PJhco1; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E7911E8117; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.81.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q71MfXGA097857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:41:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <5019B0A3.3090409@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:41:39 -0700 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 130.129.81.214 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , IESG IESG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:41:36 -0000 On 8/1/12 3:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ > -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 > > Regards, Benoit. > Thanks - I'll go find what didn't happen right. For the moment, you can use the widget at the top of that page to get to the diff. RjS From housley@vigilsec.com Wed Aug 1 15:41:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 755C711E817D; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.623 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asRYILTB-JOB; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.smetech.net (mail.smetech.net [208.254.26.82]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C245A11E8168; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [208.254.26.81]) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65320F24046; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smetech.net Received: from odin.smetech.net ([208.254.26.82]) by localhost (ronin.smetech.net [208.254.26.81]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GU4wUbTcdxo; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-55b9.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-55b9.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.85.185]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830D4F24040; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 18:41:37 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <99B8B7D3-D494-496A-BFFF-974F1665D087@vigilsec.com> References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> To: Benoit Claise X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: IESG IESG , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:41:43 -0000 This worked for me: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?&url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ > -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 > > Regards, Benoit. > From rjsparks@nostrum.com Wed Aug 1 15:44:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAE211E8131; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:44:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EfsySQFbxdvR; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5E311E811E; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.81.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q71MiAhb098067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:44:10 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <5019B13F.9020901@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:44:15 -0700 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Russ Housley References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> <99B8B7D3-D494-496A-BFFF-974F1665D087@vigilsec.com> In-Reply-To: <99B8B7D3-D494-496A-BFFF-974F1665D087@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040005060709030803060609" Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 130.129.81.214 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Benoit Claise , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , IESG IESG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:44:12 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040005060709030803060609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/1/12 3:41 PM, Russ Housley wrote: > This worked for me: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?&url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 > > On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ >> -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 >> >> Regards, Benoit. >> What he's pointing to is in the history, the second link in lines like this are broken: New version available: draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 (diff from -07 ) I'm on it (I caused it). RjS --------------040005060709030803060609 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 8/1/12 3:41 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
This worked for me:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?&url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08

On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote:

Hi,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/
   -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08

Regards, Benoit.


    
What he's pointing to is in the history, the second link in lines like this are broken:
New version available: draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 (diff from -07)

I'm on it (I caused it).

RjS


--------------040005060709030803060609-- From turners@ieca.com Wed Aug 1 15:54:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9636F11E817D for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.597, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TUKh+p7GzkSZ for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway16.websitewelcome.com (gateway16.websitewelcome.com [69.56.225.11]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A289111E811E for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gateway16.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 5007) id 23137CC8E40B5; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:54:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator1743.hostgator.com (gator1743.hostgator.com [184.173.253.227]) by gateway16.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BF5DCC8E405C for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:54:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [130.129.37.148] (port=51094 helo=dhcp-2594.meeting.ietf.org) by gator1743.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Swhns-0005Lj-3C; Wed, 01 Aug 2012 17:54:08 -0500 Message-ID: <5019B38E.7070204@ieca.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:54:06 -0700 From: Sean Turner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Sparks References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> <5019B0A3.3090409@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <5019B0A3.3090409@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator1743.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ieca.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (dhcp-2594.meeting.ietf.org) [130.129.37.148]:51094 X-Source-Auth: sean.turner@ieca.com X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: ZG9tbWdyNDg7ZG9tbWdyNDg7Z2F0b3IxNzQzLmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= Cc: Benoit Claise , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , IESG IESG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:54:11 -0000 On 8/1/12 3:41 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > On 8/1/12 3:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> Hi, >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ >> -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 >> >> Regards, Benoit. >> > Thanks - I'll go find what didn't happen right. > For the moment, you can use the widget at the top of that page to get to > the diff. I was having some problems too. spt From rjsparks@nostrum.com Wed Aug 1 15:55:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1865811E8131; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iARnQcl-vvfm; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5838711E8125; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 15:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-51d6.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.81.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q71MtbO3099243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Aug 2012 17:55:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <5019B3EE.4030808@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 15:55:42 -0700 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Russ Housley References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> <99B8B7D3-D494-496A-BFFF-974F1665D087@vigilsec.com> <5019B13F.9020901@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <5019B13F.9020901@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050204030005080308050206" Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 130.129.81.214 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Benoit Claise , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , IESG IESG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:55:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050204030005080308050206 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/1/12 3:44 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > On 8/1/12 3:41 PM, Russ Housley wrote: >> This worked for me: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?&url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 >> >> On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ >>> ->http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 >>> >>> Regards, Benoit. >>> > What he's pointing to is in the history, the second link in lines like > this are broken: > New version available: draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 > (diff > from -07 > ) > > > I'm on it (I caused it). > > RjS I sent a patch to Henrik > > --------------050204030005080308050206 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 8/1/12 3:44 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
On 8/1/12 3:41 PM, Russ Housley wrote:
This worked for me:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?&url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08

On Aug 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Benoit Claise wrote:

Hi,

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/
   -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08

Regards, Benoit.

What he's pointing to is in the history, the second link in lines like this are broken:
New version available: draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 (diff from -07)

I'm on it (I caused it).

RjS
I sent a patch to Henrik



--------------050204030005080308050206-- From bclaise@cisco.com Wed Aug 1 16:04:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599D711E8131; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:04:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fes4Np8HPYk9; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-sj.cisco.com (av-tac-sj.cisco.com [171.68.227.119]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF6211E8117; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from fire.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-sj.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q71N3unk019544; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.21.122.183] (sjc-vpn6-695.cisco.com [10.21.122.183]) by fire.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q71N3tI7008743; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5019B5DB.8020209@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:03:55 -0700 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Robert Sparks References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: IESG IESG , Tools Team Discussion Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? -> working now X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:04:01 -0000 Hi Robert & Henrik, Working now. Thanks for reacting (and solving!) fast. Regards, Benoit. > Hi, > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ > -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 > > Regards, Benoit. > > From henrik@levkowetz.com Wed Aug 1 16:17:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D7611E83A0; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:17:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NfauwuLRb8y2; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:0:31::14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD5211E83B3; Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [2001:df8:0:96:c52d:2b2a:53c8:54d8] (port=63961 helo=dhcp-67cb.meeting.ietf.org) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1SwiAH-0006A0-Im; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 01:17:26 +0200 Message-ID: <5019B8F5.3030207@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 16:17:09 -0700 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.6esrpre) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/10.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise References: <5019AFE6.1090501@cisco.com> <5019B5DB.8020209@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5019B5DB.8020209@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2001:df8:0:96:c52d:2b2a:53c8:54d8 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: bclaise@cisco.com, rjsparks@nostrum.com, iesg@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: IESG IESG , Tools Team Discussion , Robert Sparks Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] rfcdiff not working? -> working now X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2012 23:17:39 -0000 Hi all, I found and fixed this before seeing this thread, based on feedback from another user. I think this was caused by a codesprint change, but haven't looked further. Should be ok now, in any case. Thanks for the patch, Robert! Best regards, Henrik On 2012-08-01 16:03 Benoit Claise said the following: > Hi Robert & Henrik, > > Working now. > Thanks for reacting (and solving!) fast. > > Regards, Benoit. >> Hi, >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eman-requirements/history/ >> -> http://{{rfcdiff_prefix}}/?url2=draft-ietf-eman-requirements-08 >> >> Regards, Benoit. >> >> > > From martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Aug 2 11:13:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8DF21F8618 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:13:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPON4NOPOojV for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail5.alcatel.fr (smail5.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F55821F85A0 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.63]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q72IDWw9020485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:13:33 +0200 Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.48) by FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:13:33 +0200 Received: from [135.244.3.197] (135.5.27.12) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:13:29 -0400 Message-ID: <501AC332.90604@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:13:06 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [135.5.27.12] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.13 Subject: [Tools-discuss] On the "replaced by / replaces" status of drafts ... X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 18:13:38 -0000 Hello, first, sorry for the long e-mail. I am trying to do some clean-up regarding the above mentioned status of various drafts of the mpls wg and some elements are quite puzzling. A good complete example of what I would view as a proper situation is for draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk: 1/ at http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls we can see draft-allan-mpls-oam-frmwk being struck through and followed by "replaced by draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk" 2/ http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-allan-mpls-oam-frmwk shows in the header that it is replaced by draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk 3/ http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk shows in the header that it replaces draft-allan-mpls-oam-frmwk 4/ it also shows that itself is replaced by RFC4378 5/ and http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4378 shows that it replaces draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk 6/ the information on the tracker is exactly the same (see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-allan-mpls-oam-frmwk/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-oam-frmwk/ and https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4378/ ) However, there are cases when this is not as ideal. For example: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-survey2002 shows draft-thomas-mpls-ldp-survey2002 as an ancestor but http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thomas-mpls-ldp-survey2002 does not show draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-survey2002 as a descendant There is an even stranger case: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davie-mpls-rsvp indicates http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp as a descendant but this latter indicates http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-viswanathan-mpls-rsvp as an ancestor and this latter does not show anything for descendants. So, is the "replaced by / replaces" status bidirectional or not? My belief was that yes it is, as we only to ask the secretariat to mark A as replaced by B and we normally get it in both directions but some examples make me doubt. Also, on http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls, shows drafts replaced by others and does so by having the draft title struck through and by indicating "replaced by ...". But, for example: draft-raggarwa-mpls-rsvp-upstream is not struck through and indeed http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-raggarwa-mpls-rsvp-upstream shows no descendant but it is in fact the ancestor of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream as indicated in the header of this latter. So again, it seems possible to have a unidirectional replacement status and on top of that drafts titles seem to be struck through only if drafts are replaced by another one but not if the other one replaces them. Finally, there are some discrepancies between the replacement statuses indicated in the datatracker and on the tools pages. As an example (but there are others): http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping/ On the tools page the replacement status (with draft-chen-mpls-ipv6-pw-lsp-ping) is defined and is bidirectional but there is no such status in the tracker. In relation to the replacement topic, yet not directly linked: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls shows a long list of documents (Related Active Documents) but a good proportion of them have in fact expired a (very) long time ago. I noticed that all of the expired documents in that list are documents which carry the same name than a working group document (except for the prefix draft-ietf/draft-myname). This seems to be the reason for them appearing in that list, regardless of any replacement status. The glitch that leads me to that conclusion is the presence of draft-liu-mpls-tp-ring-protection in the list. This document has expired and is not replaced by any WG document. It is draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-linear-protection which is replaced by draft-ietf-mpls-tp-linear-protection, and this is correctly shown. There is another glitch, which I can't explain, which is the presence of draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext. This is a ccamp document. The reason is not because it carries mpls in its file name because ccamp has other such documents and they do not appear here. Also it is identified as expired, dating 2010, version 01, but the document is alive at version 08. So, 1/ I would definitely welcome explanations regarding the strange replacement statuses and how to fix these. I can ask the secretariat for resetting the replacement status for each, but just want to make sure the desired effect will happen. 2/ How are the datatracker and the tools pages synchronized with regards to the replacement status and how can we make sure that there are no discrepancies? 2/ Would it be possible that the conditions for listing documents in the "Related Active Documents" list be such that only working-group-associated-active documents be listed or that working-group-associated-active documents together with working-group-associated-expired-documents-but-replaced-by-active-wg-documents be listed? I insist on active, because a bunch of expired documents in the current list are effectively replaced by working group documents but these have expired, and in my opinion these docs should thus not appear in the list. Thank you. Martin From aakhter@cisco.com Thu Aug 2 16:05:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F95F11E814E; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gRfDab+lefgt; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB1211E8120; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:05:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=aakhter@cisco.com; l=2296; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1343948757; 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Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:05:36 -0500 From: "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" To: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE , "opsawg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org Thread-Index: Ac0VygSjeXWBA+n0RVmJD+wdjXWn9BbOTXbA Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:05:35 +0000 Message-ID: <75C0E47A1889264493A2DCB2869AC0960F53CC57@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com> References: <7F298ACC76CC154F832B6D02852D169F079F3DC8@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> <9AD0D6B7-6587-4864-B427-571DC97C44FD@cdl.asgaard.org> In-Reply-To: <9AD0D6B7-6587-4864-B427-571DC97C44FD@cdl.asgaard.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.113.212] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19082.000 x-tm-as-result: No--36.873500-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Tools-discuss@ietf.org" , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:05:59 -0000 SGkgR3V5cywNCg0KRGlkIHRoZSByZXBsaWNhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgYXJjaGl2ZSB0byBuZXdzLmdt YW5lLm9yZyBvY2NvdXI/IEkgd2Fzbid0IGFibGUgdG8gZmluZCBpdCB0aGVyZS4NCg0KLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IHRvb2xzLWRpc2N1c3MtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9y ZyBbbWFpbHRvOnRvb2xzLWRpc2N1c3MtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIENo cmlzdG9waGVyIExJTEpFTlNUT0xQRQ0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyOCwgMjAxMiA1 OjAxIEFNDQpUbzogQWFtZXIgQWtodGVyIChhYWtodGVyKTsgb3BzYXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQpDYzog VG9vbHMtZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgb3BzYXdnLWNoYWlycw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtUb29s cy1kaXNjdXNzXSBob3N0aW5nIG9mIG9wc2F3ZyBhdCBuZXdzLmdtYW5lLm9yZw0KDQpDb25zaWRl ciBpdCBkb25lLiAgUGxlYXNlIHJlbWVtYmVyIHRoYXQgdGhlIGlldGYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IGFy Y2hpdmUgaXMgdGhlIGRlZmluaXRpdmUgb25lLg0KDQoJQ2hyaXMNCg0KT24gMjhNYXIyMDEyLCBh dCAwMC40OCwgQWFtZXIgQWtodGVyIChhYWtodGVyKSB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFRoZXJl IGFyZSBhIGxhcmdlIG51bWJlciBvZiBJRVRGIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdHMgaG9zdGVkIGF0IGdtYW5l LiBJIGhhdmUgDQo+IGZvdW5kIGl0IGEgbXVjaCBlYXNpZXIgaW50ZXJmYWNlIHRvIGludGVyYWN0 IHdpdGggcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gdGhlIA0KPiBvZmZpY2lhbCBhcmNoaXZlIGF0IA0KPiAoaHR0cDov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFyY2hpdmUvd2ViL29wc2F3Zy9jdXJyZW50L21haWxsaXN0Lmh0 bWwpLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAxKSAgICAgIFdvdWxkIGl0IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGltcG9y dCB0aGUgZXhpc3RpbmcgYXJjaGl2ZSBpbnRvDQo+IGdtYW5lLm9yZz8NCj4gVGhpcyByZXF1aXJl cyB0aGUgJ293bmVyJyBvZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGUgcmVxdWVzdC4gDQo+IGh0 dHA6Ly9nbWFuZS5vcmcvaW1wb3J0LnBocA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAyKSAgICAgIFdvdWxkIGl0 IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIGZvciBnbWFuZS5vcmcgdG8gc3Vic2NyaWJlIHRvIHRoZSBtYWlsaW5nDQo+ IGxpc3Qgc3VjaCBhcyB0byBhcmNoaXZlIHRoZSBmb3J3YXJkIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIGluIGEgbmlj ZXIgaW50ZXJmYWNlPw0KPiBodHRwOi8vZ21hbmUub3JnL3N1YnNjcmliZS5waHANCj4gDQo+IA0K PiANCj4gVGhhbmtzIGZvciBhbnkgY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbiwNCj4gDQo+IGFhDQo+IA0KPiANCj4g DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KDQotLQ0K5p2O5p+v552/DQpDaGVjayBteSBQR1Aga2V5IGhlcmU6 IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmFzZ2FhcmQub3JnL35jZGwvY2RsLmFzYw0KQ3VycmVudCB2Q2FyZCBoZXJl OiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5hc2dhYXJkLm9yZy9+Y2RsL2NkbC52Y2YNCkNoZWNrIG15IGNhbGVuZGFy IGF2YWlsYWJpbGl0eTogaHR0cHM6Ly90dW5nbGUubWUvY2RsDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpUb29scy1kaXNjdXNzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KVG9vbHMtZGlzY3Vzc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby90b29scy1kaXNjdXNzDQo= From sob@harvard.edu Thu Aug 2 16:44:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE8521E804D for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:44:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OmwTnDzXebZa for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ackroyd.harvard.edu (ackroyd.harvard.edu [128.103.208.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAAD921E8039 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:43:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchange.university.harvard.edu (entwedge0000001.university.harvard.edu [10.35.2.152]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ackroyd.harvard.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BB6E9805; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:43:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ENTWHUBT0000000.university.harvard.edu (10.32.8.201) by ENTWEDGE0000001.university.harvard.edu (10.35.2.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:43:55 -0400 Received: from ENTWEXMB0000008.university.harvard.edu ([169.254.1.94]) by ENTWHUBT0000000.university.harvard.edu ([10.32.8.201]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 19:43:57 -0400 From: "Bradner, Scott" To: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE Thread-Topic: opsawg mailing list Thread-Index: AQHNcQgEeTJVNvc5qEu2Su5kU3aB6JdHcluA Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 23:43:57 +0000 Message-ID: <240EBEB4-9EEF-45A0-8D27-3E377DAA838B@harvard.edu> References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> In-Reply-To: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [136.248.127.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <84F7A814018C424BBEE7E5DB2393B8B2@Exchange.university.harvard.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:44:00 -0000 ZnRwLmlldGYub3JnDQppZXRmL29wc2F3Zw0KDQoNClNjb3R0IA0KDQpPbiBBdWcgMiwgMjAxMiwg YXQgNzozOCBQTSwgQ2hyaXN0b3BoZXIgTElMSkVOU1RPTFBFIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEdyZWV0aW5n cyBndXlzLA0KPiANCj4gCUNhbiBJIGdldCBhIGNvcHkgb2YgdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIGFyY2hpdmUg aW4gbWJveCBmb3JtYXQgdG8ganVtcHN0YXJ0IGdtYW5lPw0KPiANCj4gCUNocmlzDQo+IC0tICAN Cj4g5p2O5p+v552/DQo+IENoZWNrIG15IFBHUCBrZXkgaGVyZTogaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXNnYWFy ZC5vcmcvfmNkbC9jZGwuYXNjDQo+IEN1cnJlbnQgdkNhcmQgaGVyZTogaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYXNn YWFyZC5vcmcvfmNkbC9jZGwudmNmDQo+IENoZWNrIG15IGNhbGVuZGFyIGF2YWlsYWJpbGl0eTog aHR0cHM6Ly90dW5nbGUubWUvY2RsDQo+IA0KDQo= From martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Aug 2 17:25:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A1C11E8087 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:25:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.586, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s+H+fhE-3L1I for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E9321E8037 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.64]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q730PbsO021151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 02:25:37 +0200 Received: from US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.36) by FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Fri, 3 Aug 2012 02:25:36 +0200 Received: from [135.244.36.21] (135.5.27.11) by US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 20:25:32 -0400 Message-ID: <501B1A79.2010803@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 02:25:29 +0200 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" References: <501AC332.90604@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <501AC332.90604@alcatel-lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [135.5.27.11] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.84 Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] On the "replaced by / replaces" status of drafts ... X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 00:25:40 -0000 sorry, I got mixed up on two draft names > In relation to the replacement topic, yet not directly linked: > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mpls shows a long list of documents (Related > Active Documents) but a good proportion of them have in fact expired a > (very) long time ago. > I noticed that all of the expired documents in that list are documents > which carry the same name than a working group document (except for the > prefix draft-ietf/draft-myname). This seems to be the reason for them > appearing in that list, regardless of any replacement status. > The glitch that leads me to that conclusion is the presence of > draft-liu-mpls-tp-ring-protection in the list. > This document has expired and is not replaced by any WG document. > It is draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-linear-protection which is replaced by > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-linear-protection, and this is correctly shown. please read draft-weingarten-mpls-tp-ring-protection and draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection instead. From bclaise@cisco.com Thu Aug 9 07:56:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3829621F8720 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 07:56:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.371 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.371 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.227, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PFh+xzfwSxME for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-bru.cisco.com (weird-brew.cisco.com [144.254.15.118]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7500421F86F3 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 07:56:41 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q79Eudh4015023; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 16:56:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q79EuclB010448; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 16:56:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5023CFA6.9060609@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:56:38 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tools Team Discussion , Henrik Levkowetz References: <501FAA5E.3050201@freeradius.org> In-Reply-To: <501FAA5E.3050201@freeradius.org> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <501FAA5E.3050201@freeradius.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070901040700090801020501" Cc: aland@freeradius.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] cron job for the IETF doctors/directorates X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:56:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070901040700090801020501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Alan Dekok has this excellent weekly script for the AAA directorates: it returns all the active IETF drafts that have a reference to radius. The results are sent via email. For example: draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-05 Active draft-ietf-abfab-arch-03 Active draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02 Active draft-ietf-geopriv-held-measurements-05 Active draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-radius-opt-01 Active draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-03 Active draft-ietf-precis-framework-04 Active This script from Alan Dekok helps the doctors to list which drafts reference the directorate area of interest. During the AAA lunch at the IETF, we discussed the script extension to other directorates. Alan updated his script for the YANG doctors. $ ./ietf-tech-report -r yang draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-04 Active draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04 Active draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02 Active draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-05 Active draft-ietf-ipfix-configuration-model-11 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state draft-ietf-netmod-iana-timezones-00 Active draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-00 Active draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-05 Active Pretty cool, isn't it? The ideal solution would be - to host this script on an IETF server - to have multiple script instances for each doctor/directorate I'm trying to pursue that route. Do you think it's possible? Practically, how to proceed? Regards, Benoit. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Updated "tech report" script Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:28:30 +0200 From: Alan T DeKok Reply-To: aland@freeradius.org To: aaa-doctors@ietf.org I've put it up on github: https://github.com/alandekok/ietf-tech-report With documentation and everything... $ ./ietf-tech-report -r radius draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-radius-opt-01 Active draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-05 Active draft-ietf-abfab-arch-03 Active draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-03 Active draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02 Active draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-08 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state $ ./ietf-tech-report -r yang draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-04 Active draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04 Active draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02 Active draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-05 Active draft-ietf-ipfix-configuration-model-11 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state draft-ietf-netmod-iana-timezones-00 Active draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-00 Active draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-05 Active _______________________________________________ AAA-DOCTORS mailing list AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors --------------070901040700090801020501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

Alan Dekok has this excellent weekly script for the AAA directorates: it returns all the active IETF drafts that have a reference to radius. The results are sent via email.
For example:
draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-05          Active	
draft-ietf-abfab-arch-03                          Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02                  Active	
draft-ietf-geopriv-held-measurements-05           Active	
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-radius-opt-01               Active	
draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-03                      Active	
draft-ietf-precis-framework-04                    Active	

This script from Alan Dekok helps the doctors to list which drafts reference the directorate area of interest.
During the AAA lunch at the IETF, we discussed the script extension to other directorates.
Alan updated his script for the YANG doctors.
$ ./ietf-tech-report -r yang
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-04                  Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04                 Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02                  Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-05               Active	
draft-ietf-ipfix-configuration-model-11           In IESG processing -
ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>	
draft-ietf-netmod-iana-timezones-00               Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-00                     Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-05                       Active
Pretty cool, isn't it?

The ideal solution would be
    - to host this script on an IETF server
    - to have multiple script instances for each doctor/directorate
I'm trying to pursue that route.

Do you think it's possible? Practically, how to proceed?

Regards, Benoit.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AAA-DOCTORS] Updated "tech report" script
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:28:30 +0200
From: Alan T DeKok <aland@freeradius.org>
Reply-To: aland@freeradius.org
To: aaa-doctors@ietf.org


  I've put it up on github:

https://github.com/alandekok/ietf-tech-report

  With documentation and everything...

$ ./ietf-tech-report -r radius
draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-radius-opt-01               Active	
draft-ietf-softwire-6rd-radius-attrib-05          Active	
draft-ietf-abfab-arch-03                          Active	
draft-ietf-abfab-aaa-saml-03                      Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02                  Active	
draft-ietf-abfab-gss-eap-08                       In IESG processing -
ID Tracker state <Approved-announcement to be sent::Point Raised -
writeup needed>	


$ ./ietf-tech-report -r yang
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-04                  Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-iana-if-type-04                 Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-system-mgmt-02                  Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-05               Active	
draft-ietf-ipfix-configuration-model-11           In IESG processing -
ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>	
draft-ietf-netmod-iana-timezones-00               Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-00                     Active	
draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-05                       Active
_______________________________________________
AAA-DOCTORS mailing list
AAA-DOCTORS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aaa-doctors





--------------070901040700090801020501-- From christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com Thu Aug 2 16:38:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A59611E8118 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VDsGw7d7v+7T for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB16811E80F0 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenq13 with SMTP id q13so124521yen.31 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=kRi/aGpFY27tX8TFwrXSdcukRpcwKl5vjQqx1tTdT68=; b=SNRho9t8p22U2TBTAtbuj8Gm0rEVtN9L6m9NcSSPTYutLdG37PT3XVIGpAYJBBjOTm OSaIztWb7Fmx3pTuFCWB4JolMv4wvICjwUAwcl7YWz3O0LTfOv7kL4PLbIk9F3Juk/vN yOSoHzT0NxoU5Fs01tyaooAK48Xw9ymoMR9jcCFSHHF8KMpzNiBpcIpThcmOb2vVJaZ7 RHf0gNgerQsNr0uOJ5t4RA2BrWdnRVwogh/gMrVcaN+yE8XwYNQSl8NJchUZ2dBCwclf VyWZ5I8W7yt2l/966gPg/lnQGj9k2kUTh3K9NxpkuhZWA8nheCIXSmkuU2qXnGiFRxKa coWg== Received: by 10.50.170.65 with SMTP id ak1mr6683659igc.43.1343950688861; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639? ([2001:df8:0:96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ud8sm16708483igb.4.2012.08.02.16.38.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE In-Reply-To: <75C0E47A1889264493A2DCB2869AC0960F53CC57@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:04 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7F298ACC76CC154F832B6D02852D169F079F3DC8@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> <9AD0D6B7-6587-4864-B427-571DC97C44FD@cdl.asgaard.org> <75C0E47A1889264493A2DCB2869AC0960F53CC57@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com> To: "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk0sK9kkdJFi/cuRBZANVvOFW8y0FKyt9dH7aK2YWPhPuV+amjrqaMYpsYbM6yxDg3cjQZa X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:33:10 -0700 Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "Tools-discuss@ietf.org" , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:38:13 -0000 Didn't hear from them for a long time, then did, and then quiet again. = I will re-pickup =09 Chris On 02Aug2012, at 16.05, Aamer Akhter (aakhter) wrote: > Hi Guys, >=20 > Did the replication of the archive to news.gmane.org occour? I wasn't = able to find it there. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christopher = LILJENSTOLPE > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:01 AM > To: Aamer Akhter (aakhter); opsawg@ietf.org > Cc: Tools-discuss@ietf.org; opsawg-chairs > Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org >=20 > Consider it done. Please remember that the ietf mailing list archive = is the definitive one. >=20 > Chris >=20 > On 28Mar2012, at 00.48, Aamer Akhter (aakhter) wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> There are a large number of IETF mailing lists hosted at gmane. I = have=20 >> found it a much easier interface to interact with rather than the=20 >> official archive at=20 >> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/opsawg/current/maillist.html). >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 1) Would it be possible to import the existing archive into >> gmane.org? >> This requires the 'owner' of mailing list to make the request.=20 >> http://gmane.org/import.php >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> 2) Would it be possible for gmane.org to subscribe to the = mailing >> list such as to archive the forward discussions in a nicer interface? >> http://gmane.org/subscribe.php >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks for any consideration, >>=20 >> aa >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > -- > =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF > Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc > Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf > Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss -- =20 =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl From christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com Thu Aug 2 16:38:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0799511E8072 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CBFjv+brb4Iv for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371D511E8120 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so123202ghb.31 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :cc:to:mime-version:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=kXm52qq+x+dgDPnHKvgJtN4Qq+yjoC32h8fp6VEAlY4=; b=ZjxQ43PIGPK35cQWAZzlRU2UQ+LxuX1QIsmkbXGxaXzXFZNDlFFObekqHNahjS0nJE FM1f6HpJ3aoLWB/QLMD7wHppF/OJK/v0Y/uYtYazo0QTj5VOfXzjl4SIbDzxWCTEOHqT mjPd8cGFDREeUu56I+9mwHQYWDpcqlskqUidWJc50fdHY+KucNg9Ruc733ZvneozAzca /bpa1MIc4pqJtcT0dpT9zjfO+VfLi0DrJLao2/kdmh4FlV5zf2s5TaTTkHEdCywmx54d CZLsNxDAfETSaZQKmMU5M9ujoy6O/5FbCjm8IrDPXNe6I2nAooIdK2TYGW/hesSHx3ij MloQ== Received: by 10.50.11.165 with SMTP id r5mr6927185igb.27.1343950736277; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639? ([2001:df8:0:96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ud8sm16708483igb.4.2012.08.02.16.38.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:38:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:38:53 -0700 Message-Id: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> To: Tools-discuss@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkffXAg9HimiE8MQu1x+y4NIMnO3DPSPR9AaaJ9IgzjQD9KXssAh6k9O8+tfq29WX7VVEjA X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:33:10 -0700 Cc: opsawg-chairs Subject: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 23:38:58 -0000 Greetings guys, Can I get a copy of the existing archive in mbox format to = jumpstart gmane? Chris -- =20 =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl From christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com Thu Aug 2 17:08:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A91E11E80E5 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:08:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XCRfyHiPKynW for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69AFD21F8BEA for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenq13 with SMTP id q13so149831yen.31 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=rwxGTzJ/xjiPUrRXbn6xvMgdpKbUdcs0rqcRdrNsZqA=; b=nsKM+IR5hx2dt/18cwwA+U7s6D6VIr/NXOHXXscWcQAHe6Fwza1lyECnYavfp8hqSE 7dbpJwhtS0ftTg4QSVULDKyajn34X2X55VhaTrGLd8ARV++yW6vvEs8g0gOsxz0CPi6P paoQzGXm7u0Qjix6x3a7fRcvoZk9mmo2TSOn+k9ns1GWaf8ucgTYc7PjEwA5XTfHrkyD irxDFS98Aw/CS/Po0MQi2WAUyTlnILfrMRooiUSu/dSslObnBlXLSRI2p4KOt+KH0Sc4 zixzFibl+rZd92IZyogZUlFy8WBAJK0DXswIBi7hsFEfGjhDwAZuZ1KRtfNdXJlzyGbr dx/Q== Received: by 10.50.169.4 with SMTP id aa4mr6722847igc.53.1343952533515; Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639? ([2001:df8:0:96:6c1e:1a66:b618:6639]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z7sm19252651igb.3.2012.08.02.17.08.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Aug 2012 17:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 17:08:38 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7F298ACC76CC154F832B6D02852D169F079F3DC8@XMB-RCD-101.cisco.com> <9AD0D6B7-6587-4864-B427-571DC97C44FD@cdl.asgaard.org> <75C0E47A1889264493A2DCB2869AC0960F53CC57@xmb-rcd-x15.cisco.com> To: "Aamer Akhter (aakhter)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk250nx2vJTLmdBUzNjQm97VPf70wGh+99/ZZ5W+R+vUAphgW3l6il1NHzpbkePoGjzwrOV X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:33:10 -0700 Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" , "Tools-discuss@ietf.org" , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 00:08:55 -0000 Greetings, The request is in. Chris On 02Aug2012, at 16.38, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote: > Didn't hear from them for a long time, then did, and then quiet again. = I will re-pickup > =09 > Chris >=20 > On 02Aug2012, at 16.05, Aamer Akhter (aakhter) wrote: >=20 >> Hi Guys, >>=20 >> Did the replication of the archive to news.gmane.org occour? I wasn't = able to find it there. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christopher = LILJENSTOLPE >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:01 AM >> To: Aamer Akhter (aakhter); opsawg@ietf.org >> Cc: Tools-discuss@ietf.org; opsawg-chairs >> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] hosting of opsawg at news.gmane.org >>=20 >> Consider it done. Please remember that the ietf mailing list archive = is the definitive one. >>=20 >> Chris >>=20 >> On 28Mar2012, at 00.48, Aamer Akhter (aakhter) wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> There are a large number of IETF mailing lists hosted at gmane. I = have=20 >>> found it a much easier interface to interact with rather than the=20 >>> official archive at=20 >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/opsawg/current/maillist.html). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 1) Would it be possible to import the existing archive into >>> gmane.org? >>> This requires the 'owner' of mailing list to make the request.=20 >>> http://gmane.org/import.php >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 2) Would it be possible for gmane.org to subscribe to the = mailing >>> list such as to archive the forward discussions in a nicer = interface? >>> http://gmane.org/subscribe.php >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks for any consideration, >>>=20 >>> aa >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF >> Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc >> Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf >> Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > -- =20 > =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF > Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc > Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf > Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl >=20 -- =20 =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl From jjekasit@gmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:12:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2353321F87EA for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:12:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vxjRLKQXH9nD for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com (mail-vb0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7800F21F8770 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so575936vbb.31 for ; Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=057K/vwIZOVNBwxg8mj8oTvJ8k9QJN0EM+/N5Pq4pDQ=; b=JgG4TCBZ0yY7qNeJyQ+nEDEcd/aF2AnC6MNXu+kPX5ogCVN296CW4hT72Sv3V2iy+C 2/czXy8kL89ZD+C5QnJGHaSgu2vTssoeziLwJjfPKkryPzfUpYuRYD4M820k55K4HfcV 45wMshEs0V4NYLuTvE+uYVJnH8MV8oXrNicg8HLb9PyvUIQ6sMp4/xUw9+Mhy1KwthGq jn6w/GF2kW+4Tq2claAxQA9DsHNiNXCzpyIAulZS79RG8XNlRjl6V957TKCMmtxKCrU8 5oHACFRqXoZ7ionZxz3MKtIFDvPUKd/UdVntygQApNokMPEGHa1U9SslclhAVU9iZejn ocPw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.211.100 with SMTP id nb4mr15766799vec.25.1344528724868; Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.32.234 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.32.234 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Aug 2012 09:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 23:12:04 +0700 Message-ID: From: jjekasit To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6bf9e09402504c6d77d03 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:33:10 -0700 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.101 feedback X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 19:14:09 -0000 --047d7bd6bf9e09402504c6d77d03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc --047d7bd6bf9e09402504c6d77d03 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

Cc

--047d7bd6bf9e09402504c6d77d03-- From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Sat Aug 11 09:58:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2098C21F846B for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:58:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbcJ0+ICiwLH for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1C521F8578 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.100] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7BGwZcD019090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:58:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:58:38 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> To: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Tools Team Discussion , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 16:58:42 -0000 On Aug 2, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote: > Greetings guys, If you address something to opsawg-chairs@tools.ietf.org, you might want = to use a different greeting. > Can I get a copy of the existing archive in mbox format to = jumpstart gmane? You can FTP to ftp.ietf.org, go to /ietf-mail-archive/opsawg, pull down = all the files, and cat them together. --Paul Hoffman= From christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com Sat Aug 11 10:01:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F1C21F84B2 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cjggt2GBd4rQ for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com (mail-pb0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E52A21F849C for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pbbrr4 with SMTP id rr4so4596887pbb.31 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=RRVVikr1s+GSuaWgZ6PpmfM5vHdNATTLOk+OtEXNKt4=; b=WWpNZDqOoFl4x3CGxPxYwqhTit5Y70S49GBuIUOdrWPewYQzQlcqK7Srnqow8vdSkS paX6qTSlAQJb8hm7qtPzMfrHORvyqCuslOYv8NXeI5FPX4korbyH0dfWtzky2dCxjHoJ ZBw/q19nauKWcQ0UVAYdZCY1lme0BpKSbpLiaZRm0XAn9r70z3fd9zE1PvpHPPaw++st AvNDS0n1au4Z6TA1AOA/FX/XMzESCR4NOYMPRvZeGpM5p2nVzHzuFOsx2F+lOz5ot3qb ymBXKOSym3lQ7yLvL9FkQfLSx/Q/9Z2A4Etzszhn6UvG0GnAWtCC1+bFQDPXNddgF6OB A9Aw== Received: by 10.68.226.193 with SMTP id ru1mr7081747pbc.157.1344704482739; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gondul.asgaard.org (50-76-34-190-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.76.34.190]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id oa5sm1695505pbb.14.2012.08.11.10.01.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1485\)) From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:01:19 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> To: Paul Hoffman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1485) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnR9svxKlZN3lNZSZNkjtn3O/EQoezZr30Q0DUdNcZoSm/QgfOkno/y8xFh7ySQz8tEhqZ5 Cc: Tools Team Discussion , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 17:01:25 -0000 Greetings Paul, I was copying the rest of the chairs, but sending to you. In = the mean time, I remembered about the ftp archive - already have it - = thx. Chris On 11Aug2012, at 09.58, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 2, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote: >=20 >> Greetings guys, >=20 > If you address something to opsawg-chairs@tools.ietf.org, you might = want to use a different greeting. >=20 >> Can I get a copy of the existing archive in mbox format to = jumpstart gmane? >=20 > You can FTP to ftp.ietf.org, go to /ietf-mail-archive/opsawg, pull = down all the files, and cat them together. >=20 > --Paul Hoffman -- =20 =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Sat Aug 11 10:48:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FB621F863B for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yW3LFCC+6da5 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB7021F85FC for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.100] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7BHm4NI044257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:48:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:48:07 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> To: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Cc: Tools Team Discussion , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 17:48:09 -0000 On Aug 11, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote: > Greetings Paul, >=20 > I was copying the rest of the chairs, but sending to you. In = the mean time, I remembered about the ftp archive - already have it - = thx. Sorry, I was too subtle. Melinda Shore, one of the opsawg chairs, can = (and does!) speak for herself, but I bristle when men in the IETF assume = that there all women in the IETF are comfortable being called "guys". --Paul Hoffman= From melinda.shore@gmail.com Sat Aug 11 10:52:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C974721F846C for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MjEKAoLVUA45 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com (mail-pb0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F37721F8469 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pbbrr4 with SMTP id rr4so4647474pbb.31 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=u7O2QArUmZm+teVFcu56k6x5w/59hSUcCT0WH+2Q4n4=; b=N0Y9GO1FvOYc8Y7mNhIdFHJMIV+nbfOcSYkSPJ6pRXK0L/hmmMhKmcQHJzB+kAy6q3 P384yj0qgA6OOlhIs9dhu/wlHy60pKi9mwbwKjyf5NX03zspFehfOYkybiDJVup4z3ah aQFXpyDhegnBHCl878khdGgOwK4zTBjTPWqB9xXomolnivWAJ/iKAJBVTCLukkMkrXjt MrKC/QaL505AW/yiGlAMw5xM26JR3rgbUf1P63zul5oZ5spt98Vnmc5zHOr7dl39VOta JNBqAbj4NLDlA9Nlaph8mv25yabcMk4DnrdbaW7Kys5OoqkKZbigqqWrSFrp1tinjRCx UIVg== Received: by 10.68.203.200 with SMTP id ks8mr8801345pbc.142.1344707555095; Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spandex.local (66-230-81-165-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [66.230.81.165]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gh9sm1765230pbc.20.2012.08.11.10.52.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 11 Aug 2012 10:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50269BE0.6020302@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:52:32 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Hoffman References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 04:46:45 -0700 Cc: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE , Tools Team Discussion , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 17:52:35 -0000 On 8/11/12 9:48 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > Sorry, I was too subtle. Melinda Shore, one of the opsawg chairs, can > (and does!) speak for herself, but I bristle when men in the IETF > assume that there all women in the IETF are comfortable being called > "guys". I tend to use the word "guy" generically (like, network elements and whatnot) but I agree, there's really no downside to using inclusive language. Melinda From christopher.liljenstolpe@bigswitch.com Mon Aug 13 09:57:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B11721F8705 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qb2Wn9uEzRvv for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0215021F86B3 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so3742306yen.31 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=+3KY9j3SzXiRsKdLQ/b1HgifEzXpFv9o3TYXzyfQv4o=; b=ofYwqwZDWZ5MeQFvXVnvtGIpJCJrBGtOw9q6Fg5J89EB8VirdisINYy1+n/NYIzjCh nGG+toiOCOKrzLaWTsVCrYL+1h2tkEdjH2IiuyKkSG2EZxIWkaWFXr5gse3qT7Is//VV GjkfErJIh9+dYbN1FGkVCWB52e4+/2JdNdZ+bgVMA7W6FFRdd7vc77doAE1EuthlQKr5 Uxdf9ep+NYWaQ1U1PgdZEEJrehRRPdZmoLGYdn/FPqzxljrUSujh6nqePBb4PKg2V9xU jRAik3aYp036TsKtOuXNhR6pgHhD3Pb378C683HmXoqOp6ymP5gpPBr05nkOE+532pwm u3cg== Received: by 10.50.34.196 with SMTP id b4mr6513624igj.4.1344877047300; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.146] (74-93-4-132-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.93.4.132]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hi1sm6132696igc.13.2012.08.13.09.57.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1485\)) From: Christopher LILJENSTOLPE In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:57:24 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <71B1C7D4-B9FE-4314-A7B8-965131D81A30@bigswitch.com> References: <25476799-EF78-4052-A958-341AFCDB318D@bigswitch.com> To: Paul Hoffman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1485) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlx0fYGqobhYM6r6q+5YhCygD4haYMDLzYqNYBHEuCI9CkEK+X4f25oEr8l1dAwKWstB2iX Cc: Tools Team Discussion , opsawg-chairs Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] opsawg mailing list X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:57:30 -0000 Greetings, I'm sorry I offended you, Paul... Christopher On 11Aug2012, at 10.48, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 11, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Christopher LILJENSTOLPE wrote: >=20 >> Greetings Paul, >>=20 >> I was copying the rest of the chairs, but sending to you. In = the mean time, I remembered about the ftp archive - already have it - = thx. >=20 > Sorry, I was too subtle. Melinda Shore, one of the opsawg chairs, can = (and does!) speak for herself, but I bristle when men in the IETF assume = that there all women in the IETF are comfortable being called "guys". >=20 > --Paul Hoffman -- =20 =E6=9D=8E=E6=9F=AF=E7=9D=BF Check my PGP key here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.asc Current vCard here: https://www.asgaard.org/~cdl/cdl.vcf Check my calendar availability: https://tungle.me/cdl From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Mon Aug 27 00:24:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5E921F84F6 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79qUGUwLwMgz for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com (mail-vb0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6664B21F84EC for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so4516108vbb.31 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GB+yzl+G/wEbXVuIY87zuBrkW2ZgfKDhf6x8oys0saA=; b=KZT2jCpw3DzLQOnaqoTrOToyytDNyRLls3+E6AdACAn4VJl3LxOI/FutqMzVWoqU4G 09lZXTfHZfUE10HCkSW73X9PPOr/k3vcCTzHvyTvwmvPvxJItQ2HVs5zzLEduKcDtmLu G4/UMpYVC7Sys+nVLgq9+mi30XnVFwcwH9BNleWisLLv3aAWlpki2bagGPBUz9Ltumbg Z1FRg4uGAarJh+gcbHgp6DfKj8kpMGtgm4z1FePykHVte5ch3B0QYuKlBxVQP54UaICE EwRm9mQumo2C/wjJKBTeKdXbR471yK4lqY9SKqw8CUQGacbhUBgLY6qZ9LAONSsYAvfJ chCg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.70.72 with SMTP id k8mr597482vdu.55.1346052269855; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.55.9 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 09:24:29 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [Tools-discuss] How to track Returned I-Ds or Replaced RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:24:31 -0000 Hi All, I am still trying to use tools efficiently, but not sure how to find the following, please advise: 1) Any returned I-D from IESG to WG/individual. 2) Any replaced/obsolete RFC. 3) Any update RFC. Thanking you, Abdussalam Baryun, University of Glamorgan, UK From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Mon Aug 27 07:41:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 457A521F86BE for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twKiG87uEhB2 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E4721F868A for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.108] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7REfBZr014525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:41:12 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <311E0638-1EA1-4337-A3DA-E6065535FB8D@vpnc.org> References: To: Abdussalam Baryun X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How to track Returned I-Ds or Replaced RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 14:41:18 -0000 On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Abdussalam Baryun = wrote: > I am still trying to use tools efficiently, but not sure how to find > the following, please advise: >=20 > 1) Any returned I-D from IESG to WG/individual. > 2) Any replaced/obsolete RFC. > 3) Any update RFC. During the extensive discussions of what should be able to be subscribed = in the Datatracker, none of those came up. People were more focused on = following certain documents, not on following generic process changes. Having said that, you can track any of the above by grabbing the = underlying Internet Draft and RFC databases and writing your own code to = look for such changes. --Paul Hoffman= From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Tue Aug 28 02:22:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC1521F8442 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mOfxZtCtMxcR for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com (mail-vb0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65EA511E80F4 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so6158150vbb.31 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pDlB1/FcW18jUpk/znOuLa1YptoDawWG3TVXiRS2DBc=; b=O4LTcXOfhwHmpxZdeoLnjjO1o5NPizlvIF3xjMdDBomHNv9Andu4Q1aXICRCURCmem VH4RBp5RHShT8aAVkOH9xSnHCFjULPeRynzjxV0o8ZiBbUosItehtUhUJkc/i0wgqZ92 0ANTyjSHHjMe9qIAHkJlQ8VeCe+CC8THElCxJudPQqXJ9cnQpsrNlGseZwuH0S6b2g8z 7UEWpRZzghec8to1uqR2Rj9RExixdI63AsHFZJVtn9X54nBNL2I4dGBOjiGGiAQF9jVm 5G0zVeQzY4EJY6PnECJ1492+4EOtF3eFRSid9AbsfowGuubbbO8AV3VY5B5PRrCNoyME KRYg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.58.174 with SMTP id s14mr14989051veq.51.1346145750847; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.55.9 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 02:22:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <311E0638-1EA1-4337-A3DA-E6065535FB8D@vpnc.org> References: <311E0638-1EA1-4337-A3DA-E6065535FB8D@vpnc.org> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:22:30 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c47c4b8fba04c84ffb5d Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How to track Returned I-Ds or Replaced RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:22:41 -0000 --e89a8ff1c47c4b8fba04c84ffb5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi It will be good to be noticed of the documents that are changed/return in the overall IETF system, as we are noticed of the I-D submitted, and we are asked for comments, so if I give my comments I would like to know the outcome as a reply to my comments (I am noticed by the system only if the document was successful but if returned I have to search). AB On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Abdussalam Baryun < > abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I am still trying to use tools efficiently, but not sure how to find > > the following, please advise: > > > > 1) Any returned I-D from IESG to WG/individual. > > 2) Any replaced/obsolete RFC. > > 3) Any update RFC. > > During the extensive discussions of what should be able to be subscribed > in the Datatracker, none of those came up. People were more focused on > following certain documents, not on following generic process changes. > > Having said that, you can track any of the above by grabbing the > underlying Internet Draft and RFC databases and writing your own code to > look for such changes. > > --Paul Hoffman --e89a8ff1c47c4b8fba04c84ffb5d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
=A0
It will be good to be noticed of the docume= nts that are changed/return in the overall IETF system, as we are noticed o= f the I-D submitted, and we are asked for comments, so if I give my comment= s I would like to know the outcome as a reply to my comments (I am noticed = by the system=A0only if the document was successful but if returned I have = to search).
=A0
AB

On Mon, Aug 2= 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>= wrote:
On Aug 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Abdussalam= Baryun <abdussalambaryun@= gmail.com> wrote:

> I am still trying to use tools efficiently, but not sure how to find > the following, please advise:
>
> 1) Any returned I-D from IESG to WG/individual.
> 2) Any replaced/obsolete RFC.
> 3) Any update RFC.

During the extensive discussions of what should be able to be subscri= bed in the Datatracker, none of those came up. People were more focused on = following certain documents, not on following generic process changes.

Having said that, you can track any of the above by grabbing the underlying= Internet Draft and RFC databases and writing your own code to look for suc= h changes.

--Paul Hoffman

--e89a8ff1c47c4b8fba04c84ffb5d-- From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Tue Aug 28 08:10:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B110111E80C5 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ySlvdGwr6c3e for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2925911E8099 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.108] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7SFA5BN056218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 08:10:05 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2C91E69C-E7E4-450D-8C39-1D21DDA04DE6@vpnc.org> References: <311E0638-1EA1-4337-A3DA-E6065535FB8D@vpnc.org> To: Abdussalam Baryun X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] How to track Returned I-Ds or Replaced RFCs X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:10:10 -0000 On Aug 28, 2012, at 2:22 AM, Abdussalam Baryun = wrote: > It will be good to be noticed of the documents that are changed/return = in the overall IETF system, as we are noticed of the I-D submitted, and = we are asked for comments, so if I give my comments I would like to know = the outcome as a reply to my comments (I am noticed by the system only = if the document was successful but if returned I have to search). Then you should simply subscribe to any Internet Draft you want to = follow. Again: yours is the first request for such a general "tell me if = any draft is..." stream, so the simple solution (subscribe to the drafts = you care about) is better. --Paul Hoffman= From thomas.morin@orange.com Wed Aug 29 00:59:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6257821F8517 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 00:59:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.041 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.041 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tf0USJFi-lw0 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 00:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601C121F8512 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 00:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 3FB0918C841; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:59:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 900974C0A9; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:59:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cc7e:e40b:42ef:164e]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:59:23 +0200 From: To: Henrik Levkowetz Thread-Topic: Minutes not up-to-date on tools.ietf.org Thread-Index: AQHNhbwzgkjcDy+p+EaU3RBgg9RxOA== Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:59:22 +0000 Message-ID: <27168_1346227164_503DCBDB_27168_7797_2_503DCC13.80309@orange.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120713 Thunderbird/14.0 x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <68A26E71318FED4691C0AECE7A74C083@adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.8.29.53325 Cc: "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Subject: [Tools-discuss] Minutes not up-to-date on tools.ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:59:26 -0000 SGkgSGVucmlrLA0KDQpXZSB1cGRhdGVkIHRoZSBtaW51dGVzIGZvciBsM3ZwbiwgYnV0IGFmdGVy IG1vcmUgdGhhbiAxMiBob3VycyANCnRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnIHN0aWxsIHNob3dzIHRoZSBvbGQg bWludXRlcy4NCklzIHNvbWV0aGluZyBicm9rZW4gb3IgaXMgdGhpcyBqdXN0IGEgbWF0dGVyIG9m IHJlZnJlc2ggZGVsYXkgPw0KDQpJbiBib3RoIGNhc2VzLCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBuaWNlIHRvIGhh dmUgcmVhc29uYWJseSB0aW1lbHkgdXBkYXRlcyBvZiB0aGUgDQptaW51dGVzLg0KDQpUaGFua3Mg Zm9yIHlvdXIgd29yayBvbiB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZywNCg0KLVRob21hcwpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpDZSBt ZXNzYWdlIGV0IHNlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRlcyBwZXV2ZW50IGNvbnRlbmlyIGRlcyBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbnMgY29uZmlkZW50aWVsbGVzIG91IHByaXZpbGVnaWVlcyBldCBuZSBkb2l2ZW50IGRvbmMK cGFzIGV0cmUgZGlmZnVzZXMsIGV4cGxvaXRlcyBvdSBjb3BpZXMgc2FucyBhdXRvcmlzYXRpb24u IFNpIHZvdXMgYXZleiByZWN1IGNlIG1lc3NhZ2UgcGFyIGVycmV1ciwgdmV1aWxsZXogbGUgc2ln bmFsZXIKYSBsJ2V4cGVkaXRldXIgZXQgbGUgZGV0cnVpcmUgYWluc2kgcXVlIGxlcyBwaWVjZXMg am9pbnRlcy4gTGVzIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGVsZWN0cm9uaXF1ZXMgZXRhbnQgc3VzY2VwdGlibGVzIGQn YWx0ZXJhdGlvbiwKRnJhbmNlIFRlbGVjb20gLSBPcmFuZ2UgZGVjbGluZSB0b3V0ZSByZXNwb25z YWJpbGl0ZSBzaSBjZSBtZXNzYWdlIGEgZXRlIGFsdGVyZSwgZGVmb3JtZSBvdSBmYWxzaWZpZS4g TWVyY2kuCgpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25m aWRlbnRpYWwgb3IgcHJpdmlsZWdlZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBwcm90ZWN0ZWQg YnkgbGF3Owp0aGV5IHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQsIHVzZWQgb3IgY29waWVkIHdp dGhvdXQgYXV0aG9yaXNhdGlvbi4KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBl cnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFu ZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMuCkFzIGVtYWlscyBtYXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgRnJhbmNlIFRlbGVj b20gLSBPcmFuZ2UgaXMgbm90IGxpYWJsZSBmb3IgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbW9k aWZpZWQsIGNoYW5nZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lmaWVkLgpUaGFuayB5b3UuCgo= From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Thu Aug 30 07:09:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36A221F8623 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:09:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uv7iJOFpoUYh for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB4A21F85F4 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.108] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7UE9LpL081634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) From: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6C0BD883-BDD9-4005-93EC-80628A798A8D@vpnc.org> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:09:21 -0700 To: Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) Subject: [Tools-discuss] Why does the Datatracker take so long to notice new RFCs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:09:25 -0000 RFC 6722 was posted last night. As of this moment, the following search = fails: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3D6722&rfcs=3Don&search_subm= it=3D Why the delay? --Paul Hoffman= From lars@netapp.com Thu Aug 30 07:16:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B80A721F8661 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.455 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.455 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zW8Urenlwq25 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B74521F865D for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,341,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="683731433" Received: from smtp2.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.159.114]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2012 07:16:19 -0700 Received: from vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.77.35]) by smtp2.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id q7UEGILF010561; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.212]) by vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.35]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:15:39 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RFC and I-D Citation Tool Thread-Index: AQHNb0igNg5IgJ3khUOcrqwfWeNK7pdETJSAgAAPh4CAAANygIAAFyKAgAAFeoCADZbeAIAAEeWAgCDl5AA= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_508D2F25-3A6C-4EF8-B203-27346538C109"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Ole Jacobsen , RSOC , Heather Flanagan , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:16:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_508D2F25-3A6C-4EF8-B203-27346538C109 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. =46rom = the boilerplate text: >=20 > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six = months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >=20 > I typically do it like this. Instead of: >=20 > Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas = Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, = draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >=20 > I use: >=20 > Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas = Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft = draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on = http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in = Progress, {date:%B %Y}. Make this the default? 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Aj6GFDUq4HSI3cByj+hXtjJxT+xyS0WCFouGbKY1YnFpufTMIHQoVAEyI7A11uc5PlI7eZ/bTwo+ b/w1JydL3mg6WxKPKN/yVN9GW3oKf1gAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_508D2F25-3A6C-4EF8-B203-27346538C109-- From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Thu Aug 30 07:59:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4474221F8610 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.170, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=1.908, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hFnQgIwDilpA for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-f44.google.com (mail-ee0-f44.google.com 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[2.102.217.104]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i41sm5622726eem.7.2012.08.30.07.59.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <503F7FEA.6080108@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:59:54 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:59:50 -0000 On 30/08/2012 15:16, Eggert, Lars wrote: > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. From the boilerplate text: >> >> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >> >> I use: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. > > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: > > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}. > > Make this the default? Not 100% obvious. The ancient citations committee spent quite a lot of time on this issue. There are some issues discussed at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc-citation-recs-01#section-4 and even more at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc-citation-recs-01#section-6 It isn't simple at all, regardless of whether you [dis]agree with the committee's recommendations. Brian From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Aug 30 08:12:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79DAE21F855A; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LV9uGDO8QK26; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grenache.tools.ietf.org (unknown [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:2:225:90ff:fe34:720e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC1021F8535; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brunello.netnod.se ([77.72.226.95]:64262) by grenache.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T76Pb-0007Qx-3j; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:12:03 +0200 Message-ID: <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:12:02 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120821 Thunderbird/15.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" , Ole Jacobsen References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 77.72.226.95 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: lars@netapp.com, ole@cisco.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, rsoc@iab.org, rsag@rfc-editor.org, hlflanagan@gmail.com, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on grenache.tools.ietf.org) Cc: RSOC , Heather Flanagan , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:12:29 -0000 Hi Lars, The suggestion below is fine for me; I'd like to hear if it also works for Ole, who had the idea for the tool in the first place. Ole? Best regards, Henrik On 2012-08-30 16:16 Eggert, Lars said: > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. From the boilerplate text: >> >> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >> >> I use: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. > > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: > > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}. > > Make this the default? > > Lars > From bob.hinden@gmail.com Thu Aug 30 08:21:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D4321F852C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l0JeG-VbCnMg for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-f44.google.com (mail-ee0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0015721F851B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eekb45 with SMTP id b45so792617eek.31 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=a1+mDP0/gTSzssIHzhuB8VgboN/+jS3wuqPcuDXnAcA=; b=n2ArkB4eEAEEBb8DFYTcStxmnSpGDKBhiohj/QzlUMTyzbSKgEF2vgLhs5UABccOKd 0FsZ9gJ3LcwLphmLDdSeFhbByo74oM+fDg2DBKc1FT6TKJXwO7u+HXidaFD9kOCPYP7J Xu33DBjN6DfYZYpqz1OnCzHcuxRuqnox9rOxfU8QzWqgZluT1Vby+IE8pLtnhQqQW/m1 1kckTveO6bX2Vz0+beoptB/CzYagpBO9rW6gYNnq/6c53YYlaLWFwiqwEUkuXuYpDHWb kpuFxDmxxfgPUvCcotedserjewf+SQ/RZbPbJecGbd1DLh1+ndGPaoITp+lk4cxKFX2i FnFA== Received: by 10.14.4.198 with SMTP id 46mr7145620eej.11.1346340088010; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:9:4080:10:7d17:9d7a:eb4:daf3? ([2601:9:4080:10:7d17:9d7a:eb4:daf3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i41sm5774809eem.7.2012.08.30.08.21.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1280) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:21:23 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0EED91A3-D3B0-4687-B56D-82A675C34111@gmail.com> References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> To: "Eggert, Lars" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1280) Cc: RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rsoc] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:21:30 -0000 Lars, On Aug 30, 2012, at 7:16 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. =46rom = the boilerplate text: >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six = months >> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>=20 >> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >>=20 >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas = Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, = draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >>=20 >> I use: >>=20 >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas = Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft = draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. >=20 > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field = on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: >=20 > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in = Progress, {date:%B %Y}. I like yours. A question, why are affiliations included in the = reference? We don't do that in references in RFCs? Bob >=20 > Make this the default? >=20 > Lars_______________________________________________ > Rsoc mailing list > Rsoc@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rsoc From lars@netapp.com Thu Aug 30 08:22:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85DF21F84AF for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.759 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.759 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.556, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id djWpNUoLNwzS for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941B621F851B for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,341,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="683762467" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2012 08:22:42 -0700 Received: from vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.77.35]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id q7UFMeJm011844; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.212]) by vmwexceht05-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.77.35]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:22:01 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Bob Hinden Thread-Topic: [Rsoc] RFC and I-D Citation Tool Thread-Index: AQHNb0igNg5IgJ3khUOcrqwfWeNK7pdETJSAgAAPh4CAAANygIAAFyKAgAAFeoCADZbeAIAAEeWAgCDl5ACAABIxgIAAAFoA Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:22:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <0EED91A3-D3B0-4687-B56D-82A675C34111@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0EED91A3-D3B0-4687-B56D-82A675C34111@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-D2F6C6A7-86F6-499E-B2AF-AE3DCCE6679E"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rsoc] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:22:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D2F6C6A7-86F6-499E-B2AF-AE3DCCE6679E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii They shouldnt be, I agree --=20 Sent from a mobile device; please excuse typos. On Aug 30, 2012, at 17:21, "Bob Hinden" wrote: > Lars, >=20 > On Aug 30, 2012, at 7:16 AM, Eggert, Lars wrote: >=20 >> On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >>> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. =46rom th= e boilerplate text: >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >>> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >>> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>>=20 >>> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >>>=20 >>> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadea= u, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, draft-ward-irs-fr= amework-00. >>>=20 >>> I use: >>>=20 >>> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadea= u, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft draft-ward-ir= s-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. >>=20 >> Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on h= ttp://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: >>=20 >> {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progre= ss, {date:%B %Y}. >=20 > I like yours. A question, why are affiliations included in the reference?= We don't do that in references in RFCs? >=20 > Bob >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Make this the default? >>=20 >> Lars_______________________________________________ >> Rsoc mailing list >> Rsoc@iab.org >> https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rsoc >=20 --Apple-Mail-D2F6C6A7-86F6-499E-B2AF-AE3DCCE6679E Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFTjCCBUow ggQyoAMCAQICEFcfSRTG0jNknqb9LV9GuFkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMTEyMTAwMDAwMDBaFw0x MjEyMDkyMzU5NTlaMIIBDTEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlT aWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxRjBEBgNVBAsTPXd3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS9S UEEgSW5jb3JwLiBieSBSZWYuLExJQUIuTFREKGMpOTgxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZh bGlkYXRlZDEzMDEGA1UECxMqRGlnaXRhbCBJRCBDbGFzcyAxIC0gTmV0c2NhcGUgRnVsbCBTZXJ2 aWNlMRQwEgYDVQQDFAtMYXJzIEVnZ2VydDEeMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYPbGFyc0BuZXRhcHAuY29t MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAokrhJTcXt6J/VEpZOicLoguBlYTjXP9v Ze4HuuhXnURUS8YouAfgaqA0zYbt5yd6fh4PBMdAaEWr5yJyHuFykXlrCumjUWSpLuqTS2A+pt4q cZaAQk9iLDN/UVd3SpkUuvWbxXlqzG7/BSqa3VNObBzCmyh+V7aXxri+30CT//DSsNRC4VFy6sn6 dMgSaFenXLwe/FBwY0qTMfICT1PrrX6Sw1S8OfH9rykLlZXbmfkFExxQngp1DJH9xMHeODHGbCv/ ty5gdxMOrLe+vENxFEcy1YQWBZd1kNL4UObugF8A/jE/s+Oa3H1VFH8ghqZTdqGDysVxmtKHuNFx 6jIBSQIDAQABo4HSMIHPMAkGA1UdEwQCMAAwRAYDVR0gBD0wOzA5BgtghkgBhvhFAQcXATAqMCgG CCsGAQUFBwIBFhxodHRwczovL3d3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcnBhMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIFoDAdBgNV HSUEFjAUBggrBgEFBQcDBAYIKwYBBQUHAwIwUAYDVR0fBEkwRzBFoEOgQYY/aHR0cDovL2luZGMx ZGlnaXRhbGlkLWczLWNybC52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vSW5kQzFEaWdpdGFsSUQtRzMuY3JsMA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQBA7q6tR92qpd7xo7VBsrOfGCWzoxIVfTc7t0RhB/Oz/+c3lnhYnNScIuKN JmyZvznmVxqB9BJ72+NkvmdB/hnILSBTRawL2tyLo9PkBtN0nRt4gS6wjpWnD8G83hlJLE7r25jk 7HkRev61dTIXsANFpJKF02C4XSoDfEzNV6MpuEvHvcgHCqMrlwWwfKc7+NoDnE8PBuRzwSXvlD5L mswCY2iiOsd7ImNO4OzTCxETvKTDu92+FTIbRJJpYjVNv1UF7e3w9Kq65BkZJErUH19beUeQl0Wh 2BJQE6/15rQyCnP0iJ/Nmx2/kI6M0PWunEsI6FMs0MbosreaWGHlQmomMYIEizCCBIcCAQEwgfIw gd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNp Z24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZl cmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEgKGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUG A1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMwIQVx9J FMbSM2Sepv0tX0a4WTAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIICbTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwG CSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMjA4MzAxNTIyMzhaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRTQGJrC3sQeDTFHWK6 Oa1NlCFo/jCCAQMGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGB9TCB8jCB3TELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZl cmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJpU2lnbiBUcnVzdCBOZXR3b3JrMTswOQYDVQQLEzJU ZXJtcyBvZiB1c2UgYXQgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudmVyaXNpZ24uY29tL3JwYSAoYykwOTEeMBwGA1UE CxMVUGVyc29uYSBOb3QgVmFsaWRhdGVkMTcwNQYDVQQDEy5WZXJpU2lnbiBDbGFzcyAxIEluZGl2 aWR1YWwgU3Vic2NyaWJlciBDQSAtIEczAhBXH0kUxtIzZJ6m/S1fRrhZMIIBBQYLKoZIhvcNAQkQ AgsxgfWggfIwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UE CxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29yazE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEgKGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlk YXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24gQ2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0Eg LSBHMwIQVx9JFMbSM2Sepv0tX0a4WTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQBG9yir17aT56cEUJ+QbGcJ bi+Q+I3TuYbvLFHvch3Bzs37vNJuZwCW6DmWuI1en15pls6HyBp+zYQLkpllNJE7oCCVThD0ev0d xElX7yqUGzICM4cgir2GKOPC53v1p+9vKoHXbDhIYuPDqgJHbUtvrfqAyId73tc/d2uK3Iw1hv1b JnQAGAYEvmV+KoNWM93mSPFWNZg/mv9iia1EWmuoxmSvEzWgBV2KG2wqDykqldHFntlZFaj0+6oI YvFWBjRKok/PdHx0sWQkcAyVoPrvclyL2qC3mmqQsb0g6vDl2NTOXdEcZDwE1PwCACd0Y75euJz5 7tz/uOnoqJBf5jD7AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-D2F6C6A7-86F6-499E-B2AF-AE3DCCE6679E-- From klensin@jck.com Thu Aug 30 08:28:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D6A21F856D; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:28:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.506 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.506 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yRnzuVH1BouQ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABE121F8566; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 08:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1T76fn-000N55-Hk; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:28:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:28:42 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Ole Jacobsen , Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: RSOC , tools-discuss@ietf.org, rsag@rfc-editor.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:28:53 -0000 --On Thursday, August 30, 2012 08:20 -0700 Ole Jacobsen wrote: > > No, for I-D, I want the filename LAST because I want to (if > possible) have it one ONE line, not wrapped. I still think that there are really two types of I-D citations and that the difference should be reflected in the references: (1) Actual "work in progress". These should be cited as such as should _not_ include a filename. Including a filename not only moves us several steps toward supporting the idea of I-Ds as an archival series but increases the odds that someone will end up looking up an I-D rather than the successor RFC. Include a title and author information and let those who want to find the current version resort to either the I-D Database or a Search engine. (2) I-Ds cited informationally as part of historical context. For them, the "make sure the reference can be found" principle outweighs the "risk of archival treatment" one and we know that the document cited is not going to change or be superceded (at least for the purposes of the citation). So including a file name (and similar information, if any) is entirely appropriate. Until we are willing to make --and be ready to enforce-- that distinction, it seems to me that there is no way to get a citation tool right. best, john From arusso@amsl.com Thu Aug 30 09:15:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D4C21F8595 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.222, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5SbH3FB9nkpy for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A633521F8554 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0FC12BBBB; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z2ItabUdlObT; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc2.home (pool-173-73-60-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net [173.73.60.7]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD45F12BBBA; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Alice Russo In-Reply-To: <6C0BD883-BDD9-4005-93EC-80628A798A8D@vpnc.org> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:15:24 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6C0BD883-BDD9-4005-93EC-80628A798A8D@vpnc.org> To: Paul Hoffman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: Tools Team Discussion , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Why does the Datatracker take so long to notice new RFCs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:15:27 -0000 Paul, The datatracker relies on rfc-index.xml (from rfc-editor.org) to get = this data. On the RFC Editor end, after publication yesterday, we had an = unusual delay (12 hours) in updating that XML file due to internal = upgrades.=20 In general, when an RFC publication announcement goes out, the RFC is = available from the RFC search page = (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html) and various RFC index files = (including the XML file) have been updated. Typically, there is a short = delay before it's visible in the datatracker. (I understand = rfc-index.xml is polled daily.) Btw, I think one goal of the upcoming implementation of extensions for = datatracker / IANA / RFC Editor interaction (specified in RFC 6359) is = to eliminate the typical delay -- or come close. Thank you. Alice Russo RFC Production Center On Aug 30, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > RFC 6722 was posted last night. As of this moment, the following = search fails: >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3D6722&rfcs=3Don&search_subm= it=3D >=20 > Why the delay? >=20 > --Paul Hoffman > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 From lars@netapp.com Thu Aug 30 09:18:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E84621F8475 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:18:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CnnX0DFRnRf for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911E721F849A for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:18:00 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,341,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="683795017" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2012 09:18:00 -0700 Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.239]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id q7UGHwHT014172; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.212]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:17:57 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: John C Klensin Thread-Topic: [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool Thread-Index: AQHNb0igNg5IgJ3khUOcrqwfWeNK7pdETJSAgAAPh4CAAANygIAAFyKAgAAFeoCADZbeAIAAEeWAgCDl5AD//5yGjIAAd7cAgAANwoA= Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:18:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.115] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4B1344F4-C56C-42E2-BFDD-79EFE73983A8"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: RSOC , Ole Jacobsen , Henrik Levkowetz , "" , "" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:18:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4B1344F4-C56C-42E2-BFDD-79EFE73983A8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, The boilerplate of every I-D says 'It is inappropriate to use = Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as = "work in progress."' There is no distinction between types of I-Ds. If we want that = distinction, we need to get consensus to change the boilerplate.=20 Until that consensus for change is established, I think it's pretty = clear that all I-Ds must always be cited as "work in progress" per the = boilerplate. Lars On Aug 30, 2012, at 17:28, John C Klensin wrote: >=20 >=20 > --On Thursday, August 30, 2012 08:20 -0700 Ole Jacobsen > wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> No, for I-D, I want the filename LAST because I want to (if >> possible) have it one ONE line, not wrapped. >=20 > I still think that there are really two types of I-D citations > and that the difference should be reflected in the references: >=20 > (1) Actual "work in progress". These should be cited as such as > should _not_ include a filename. Including a filename not only > moves us several steps toward supporting the idea of I-Ds as an > archival series but increases the odds that someone will end up > looking up an I-D rather than the successor RFC. Include a > title and author information and let those who want to find the > current version resort to either the I-D Database or a Search > engine. >=20 > (2) I-Ds cited informationally as part of historical context. > For them, the "make sure the reference can be found" principle > outweighs the "risk of archival treatment" one and we know that > the document cited is not going to change or be superceded (at > least for the purposes of the citation). So including a file > name (and similar information, if any) is entirely appropriate. >=20 > Until we are willing to make --and be ready to enforce-- that > distinction, it seems to me that there is no way to get a > citation tool right. >=20 > best, > john >=20 --Apple-Mail=_4B1344F4-C56C-42E2-BFDD-79EFE73983A8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMQDCCBUow ggQyoAMCAQICEFcfSRTG0jNknqb9LV9GuFkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMTEyMTAwMDAwMDBaFw0x MjEyMDkyMzU5NTlaMIIBDTEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlT 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J5nntboxScQVp+Nrz/frTuWR5T0VlUdHHqLD/Ky+XyqmL8YMA5c7FiPibozwMEVAlV4znYJnTBV+ LgzX/IB7M0p5AXhnb49v8UbvdH3IDinW7JdJ1RjJmsi48v3ehv+V8DJmUGht9iXh8L9s8In0Ap/P TX0KQqVeMXhNpRe5R5cKHSZWmpvA+3a62WzBrx3LAkfSjw30sKo/Z9M03f+gfkJF5Qxsxp4D9SJW 7X3jsXhcZv+jSNKP15JqPG0qIcxXznMN16klXkNATf9axCdvawWgIqsDs5Z4uhdqXfUkaVVIK5mj wp936dOWGFujEB5vVNxi70OYJ9T+wJ8AAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_4B1344F4-C56C-42E2-BFDD-79EFE73983A8-- From lars@netapp.com Thu Aug 30 09:20:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C829C21F853E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:20:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dihlX3KZJn6S for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD9721F8530 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:20:23 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,341,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="683796527" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2012 09:20:22 -0700 Received: from vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.240]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id q7UGKMnR017048; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.212]) by vmwexceht02-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.240]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:20:22 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: John C Klensin Thread-Topic: [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool Thread-Index: AQHNb0igNg5IgJ3khUOcrqwfWeNK7g== Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:20:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.115] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C2B78FE6-9BB2-4CB8-ACF1-E161A9A86FDF"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: RSOC , Ole Jacobsen , Henrik Levkowetz , "" , "" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:20:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C2B78FE6-9BB2-4CB8-ACF1-E161A9A86FDF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry, I was hasty and misread your original email. You don't want to = omit the "work in progress bit" in some cases, you want to sometimes = omit the ID file name. Orthogonal issue, and deserves discussion, but this thread is about = adding the "work in progress" bit to the default template, as required = by the boilerplate. Lars On Aug 30, 2012, at 18:18, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, >=20 > The boilerplate of every I-D says 'It is inappropriate to use = Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as = "work in progress."' >=20 > There is no distinction between types of I-Ds. If we want that = distinction, we need to get consensus to change the boilerplate.=20 >=20 > Until that consensus for change is established, I think it's pretty = clear that all I-Ds must always be cited as "work in progress" per the = boilerplate. >=20 > Lars >=20 > On Aug 30, 2012, at 17:28, John C Klensin > wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --On Thursday, August 30, 2012 08:20 -0700 Ole Jacobsen >> wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> No, for I-D, I want the filename LAST because I want to (if >>> possible) have it one ONE line, not wrapped. >>=20 >> I still think that there are really two types of I-D citations >> and that the difference should be reflected in the references: >>=20 >> (1) Actual "work in progress". These should be cited as such as >> should _not_ include a filename. Including a filename not only >> moves us several steps toward supporting the idea of I-Ds as an >> archival series but increases the odds that someone will end up >> looking up an I-D rather than the successor RFC. Include a >> title and author information and let those who want to find the >> current version resort to either the I-D Database or a Search >> engine. >>=20 >> (2) I-Ds cited informationally as part of historical context. >> For them, the "make sure the reference can be found" principle >> outweighs the "risk of archival treatment" one and we know that >> the document cited is not going to change or be superceded (at >> least for the purposes of the citation). So including a file >> name (and similar information, if any) is entirely appropriate. >>=20 >> Until we are willing to make --and be ready to enforce-- that >> distinction, it seems to me that there is no way to get a >> citation tool right. >>=20 >> best, >> john >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C2B78FE6-9BB2-4CB8-ACF1-E161A9A86FDF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMQDCCBUow ggQyoAMCAQICEFcfSRTG0jNknqb9LV9GuFkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMTEyMTAwMDAwMDBaFw0x 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mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YvDcmXGYc0Y5 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B78C721F853E for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:22:34 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,341,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="683797727" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 30 Aug 2012 09:22:33 -0700 Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com (vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.239]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id q7UGMW2f019233; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:22:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.212]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:22:31 -0700 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool Thread-Index: AQHNb0igNg5IgJ3khUOcrqwfWeNK7pdETJSAgAAPh4CAAANygIAAFyKAgAAFeoCADZbeAIAAEeWAgCDl5ACAAAwxAIAAFxQA Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:22:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F7FEA.6080108@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <503F7FEA.6080108@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.115] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E56E8FB9-A911-4533-A323-61033E154F0D"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:22:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E56E8FB9-A911-4533-A323-61033E154F0D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Aug 30, 2012, at 16:59, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Not 100% obvious. The ancient citations committee spent quite a > lot of time on this issue. There are some issues discussed at > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc-citation-recs-01#section-4 > and even more at > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc-citation-recs-01#section-6 >=20 > It isn't simple at all, regardless of whether you [dis]agree > with the committee's recommendations. At the moment, they're described in an I-D without having undergone a = consensus call. Once they have I'm all for the tool respecting what the = committee guidelines will be. Until then, we should make the tool comply = to the current rules, which require the "work in progress" bit. 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aMSdJc8JCMJip5AEiC0lgEcpEu2VW1l0Inhtbf+P6j914njboadzwOP+DbLLP3BeAW4hYhm/3Nu+ JnrZ7HOYkpAATFP46L3SDG7uyoED4GQAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_E56E8FB9-A911-4533-A323-61033E154F0D-- From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Thu Aug 30 09:34:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7096221F8551 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:34:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7O913YyNxX4Z for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0FB21F853C for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.108] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7UGYHR3025195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:34:17 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6C0BD883-BDD9-4005-93EC-80628A798A8D@vpnc.org> To: Alice Russo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) Cc: Tools Team Discussion , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Why does the Datatracker take so long to notice new RFCs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:34:22 -0000 On Aug 30, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Alice Russo wrote: > The datatracker relies on rfc-index.xml (from rfc-editor.org) to get = this data. Thanks, that's useful information. > On the RFC Editor end, after publication yesterday, we had an unusual = delay (12 hours) in updating that XML file due to internal upgrades.=20 Also useful. > In general, when an RFC publication announcement goes out, the RFC is = available from the RFC search page = (http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html) and various RFC index files = (including the XML file) have been updated. Typically, there is a short = delay before it's visible in the datatracker. (I understand = rfc-index.xml is polled daily.) "Daily" seems silly; hourly or even quarter-hourly seems much more = sensible. The reason I bring this up is that we have people who want to subscribe = to the Atom feeds for RFCs in which they are interested. An RFC = announcement comes out; a person says "that's an interesting RFC" and = starts to read it; they think it is interesting enough to want to = subscribe to the Atom feed so they know when the RFC has been updated or = there is an errata. It is a disservice to make them have to wait an indeterminate amount of = time in order to be able to subscribe to the Atom feed. > Btw, I think one goal of the upcoming implementation of extensions for = datatracker / IANA / RFC Editor interaction (specified in RFC 6359) is = to eliminate the typical delay -- or come close. That work seems off in the future; a simple fix would be for the = Datatracker to poll for rfc-index.xml much more often. --Paul Hoffman= From klensin@jck.com Thu Aug 30 09:50:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F2321F852C; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:50:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGj3hzLzuewV; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875EF21F852B; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1T77wS-000NHy-AM; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:50:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:49:59 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: "Eggert, Lars" Message-ID: <0AB0595ACE08AB4BF6B12283@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> In-Reply-To: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.ne t> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: RSOC , Ole Jacobsen , Henrik Levkowetz , "" , "" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:50:10 -0000 --On Thursday, August 30, 2012 16:18 +0000 "Eggert, Lars" wrote: > Hi, > > The boilerplate of every I-D says 'It is inappropriate to use > Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other > than as "work in progress."' > > There is no distinction between types of I-Ds. If we want that > distinction, we need to get consensus to change the > boilerplate. > > Until that consensus for change is established, I think it's > pretty clear that all I-Ds must always be cited as "work in > progress" per the boilerplate. Lars, First of all, let's distinguish between "consensus in the community" and "decision made by the RFC Editor and/or IESG". IIR, the "must always be cited [only] as 'work in progress" decision about RFCs was an RFC Editor decision. So was the decision that "must always be cited" implied "only" and the consequent prohibition on inclusion of file names. So, first of all, if the question is going to be "where is the consensus for a change" or "we can't make a change without establishing a consensus for it", then the existing practice is "no filenames or even dates associated with I-Ds in RFCs" and a discussion about where to put the filename is largely irrelevant. Second -- and with the understanding that it _is_ a proposal for a change-- we've taken some pride over the years in the principle that the IETF (and RFC Editor) communities value good sense and rationality over narrow interpretation of procedures. Describing a document that is cited purely for historical purposes, with a general understanding that either it will never be revised or updated or that the version cited is a permanent citation regardless of what happens to the document, as a "work in progress" is silly and nearly self-contradictory. So I think we should change that, either by adopting a style other than "work in prgress" or by banning such citations entirely (which leads to a different silly state). YMMD, of course. But, in the context of what to do about file names, what I was trying to say was "let's not authorize filenames unless we make a distinction about types of I-D citations". best, john From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org Thu Aug 30 10:07:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B420921F849B; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Hl5ohkPEtKV; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EA921F847F; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.20.30.108] (50-1-50-97.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.50.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q7UH7kKB037525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) From: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <0AB0595ACE08AB4BF6B12283@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:07:45 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96B8A185-4DEB-42F5-BB1B-E8E4B9DD2562@vpnc.org> References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.ne t> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> <59186148D590B80E311CF8CE@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <0AB0595ACE08AB4BF6B12283@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> To: Lars Eggert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) Cc: Ole Jacobsen , Tools Team Discussion , RSOC , John C Klensin , Henrik Levkowetz , rsag@rfc-editor.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:07:56 -0000 tl;dr of John's message: what you think is "pretty clear" leads to silly = states, and that has been discussed but not fixed. +1 to John's message. --Paul Hoffman= From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Aug 30 10:41:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2BB21F84A6; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.290, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=1.908, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ge+2a0fTXOg3; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [194.146.105.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F389921F84C4; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 10:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h225n11-s-oev-d2.ias.bredband.telia.com ([2.248.171.225]:56635 helo=vigonier.local) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T78gx-0007iR-HD; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:38:08 +0200 Message-ID: <503FA4F9.20708@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:38:01 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.7) Gecko/20120824 Thunderbird/10.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen , "Eggert, Lars" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2.248.171.225 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ole@cisco.com, lars@netapp.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, rsoc@iab.org, rsag@rfc-editor.org, hlflanagan@gmail.com, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: RSOC , Heather Flanagan , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:41:33 -0000 Hi, On 2012-08-30 17:20 Ole Jacobsen said the following: > > No, for I-D, I want the filename LAST because I want to (if possible) > have it one ONE line, not wrapped. For the tool, I'm planning to resolve this as follows for now: * I'm going to add cookie support, so any user of the tool, after the first time, gets the templates he used the previous time he used the tool (with a given browser), so everyone can tweak things to his preference and have it stick. * I'm going to change the default template for drafts to this: {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}, {docname} which should let anyone who don't want the explicit draftname shown delete it easily, in addition to lowering the chances of it being broken across lines. Best regards, Henrik > Ole > > > Ole J. Jacobsen > Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal > Cisco Systems > Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628 > E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj > Skype: organdemo > > > On Thu, 30 Aug 2012, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >> Hi Lars, >> >> The suggestion below is fine for me; I'd like to hear if it also works >> for Ole, who had the idea for the tool in the first place. >> >> Ole? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Henrik >> >> On 2012-08-30 16:16 Eggert, Lars said: >> > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> > > one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. From the >> > > boilerplate text: >> > > >> > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >> > > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> > > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> > > >> > > I typically do it like this. Instead of: >> > > >> > > Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, >> > > "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, >> > > draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >> > > >> > > I use: >> > > >> > > Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, >> > > "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft >> > > draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. >> > >> > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on >> > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: >> > >> > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progress, >> > {date:%B %Y}. >> > >> > Make this the default? >> > >> > Lars >> > >> > From henrik@levkowetz.com Thu Aug 30 12:13:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DC421F8598 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:13:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.146, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=1.908, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DbVVkrsAuRzo for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from merlot.tools.ietf.org (merlot.tools.ietf.org [194.146.105.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3951121F8534 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 12:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h225n11-s-oev-d2.ias.bredband.telia.com ([2.248.171.225]:59135 helo=vigonier.local) by merlot.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1T7AAt-0000Wo-Gg; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:13:17 +0200 Message-ID: <503FBB37.2010006@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:12:55 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.7) Gecko/20120824 Thunderbird/10.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alice Russo References: <6C0BD883-BDD9-4005-93EC-80628A798A8D@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 2.248.171.225 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: arusso@amsl.com, paul.hoffman@vpnc.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:57:07 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on merlot.tools.ietf.org) Cc: Paul Hoffman , Tools Team Discussion , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Why does the Datatracker take so long to notice new RFCs? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:13:54 -0000 Hi, Expanding on Alice's statement below regarding an upcoming enhancement to the IETF datatracker: On 2012-08-30 18:15 Alice Russo said the following: > Btw, I think one goal of the upcoming implementation of extensions > for datatracker / IANA / RFC Editor interaction (specified in RFC > 6359) is to eliminate the typical delay -- or come close. Yes. There's a project which is nearing completion where we're working towards having state updates from both the RFC-Editor and IANA to the IETF datatracker, (and vice versa, eventually), work by providing a method which lets the originator of a state change push a notification (by using a HTTP POST to a well-known URL) as soon as there's a state change to fetch. This will let us exchange timely state change updates, and will still let us fall back to cron-based polling if the notifications fail. I believe the project should be ready for deployment within a few weeks, for notifications from the RFC-Editor and IANA to the IETF, with the other direction coming somewhat later. There may be some initial tuning needed, but we should nevertheless be in a much better place fairly soon. Best regards, Henrik From gwz@net-zen.net Thu Aug 30 19:43:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EDF11E80DE for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZmoTgnpRZiqg for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sg2plout10-02.prod.sin2.secureserver.net (sg2plout10-02.prod.sin2.secureserver.net [182.50.145.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C948211E80DC for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11427 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2012 02:43:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (58.11.255.202) by sg2plout10-02.prod.sin2.secureserver.net (182.50.145.5) with ESMTP; 31 Aug 2012 02:43:39 -0000 Message-ID: <504024DA.8050308@net-zen.net> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 09:43:38 +0700 From: Glen Zorn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:14.0) Gecko/20120721 Thunderbird/14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Eggert, Lars" References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gwz@net-zen.net, RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:43:47 -0000 On 08/30/2012 09:16 PM, Eggert, Lars wrote: > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. From the boilerplate text: >> >> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >> >> I use: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: > > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}. > > Make this the default? If we're talking about defaults, I would prefer this: {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}," {docname}, Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}. I would prefer that the citation of an I-D be as similar to that of an RFC as possible; the document name will always contain the string "draft-", so "Internet-Draft" seems redundant. Also, it seems to me that if we really want to enforce this kind of thing, shouldn't we be talking to whoever maintains the citation libraries used by xml2rfc? ... From brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com Fri Aug 31 00:52:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36CF921F8459 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP=1.908, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1tJfdXpIo-ZN for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-f44.google.com (mail-ee0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6289421F8467 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eekb45 with SMTP id b45so1052920eek.31 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rBrinKNQBR1yiu6i/dJdZfEb4DBQ2wE7EqutcEqjlek=; b=VyzFgnlYpSmD3qVwOqc0BZSxfiySyVO5q3XFj/gEszBwVaZOt4NHaRnYoYUrYU9iO3 I9doziBHGqf4hpQBzTh3K47P5EnwoNrY16MUUuygqubJEi7EkopxgzCLBgfFESP9kjkR s9+FP12sdru0SBAMAxphAwkDIIyfPKsN0xxFIpC8yHhbKiu/BB3kbdkGDlOWzW55mVip oJ1oEavLbgldEgruD25kgjg0p9JNMSkcjreAm5gdG5fqXD7Sy0n0LiJsgzecmQKGHDUS vK87R/XPq7vzIYco34+lQe42HGha99Wn3DYDsII3dkuMbshAasu2BRGCOdmDu06lAiFQ Xf9Q== Received: by 10.14.184.133 with SMTP id s5mr9856093eem.31.1346399577608; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.65] (host-2-102-216-147.as13285.net. [2.102.216.147]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h2sm11155574eeo.3.2012.08.31.00.52.54 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50406D60.2080309@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:53:04 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ole Jacobsen References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> <503F82C2.5020403@levkowetz.com> <503FA4F9.20708@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [RSAG] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 07:52:59 -0000 On 30/08/2012 19:55, Ole Jacobsen wrote: > ...Of course such an article would be > the PERFECT place in which to elaborate on the dangers of, or > appropriateness of including I-D citations in any place (perhaps > I should use the Parliamentary "in another place" here, especially > to amuse Brian :-) Be careful. I am currently in Cambridge, England, where "another place" or "the other place" refers to an obscure university on the river Isis, at a spot where oxen used to wade across. That said, my personal opinion is that pragmatism should rule - people *will* cite I-Ds, for whatever reason, and if someone cites, say, draft-odell-8+8-00.txt as "work in progress" it's manifest nonsense, whereas citing it as "working draft" is historically accurate. All the same, until there is a community consensus to change, "work in progress" is clearly the default. Brian From abdussalambaryun@gmail.com Fri Aug 31 08:21:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF2C21F866D for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.097, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hwEJyZZH8kY4 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7331A21F8613 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14so3893131vcb.31 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=1NZQORPvRH2jr599UmrYkFXrzCiJp2LYXy7zTgZVkMg=; b=asN33nTvcIx1bJXDTLPgaXE1XUAOPHf3Eek53FV1a23yCsO8h/QadpJYUSCFejCEfy ry/w+4U12l1ruDu2mPwHmYnNeCD1wuoGXbGYT2bXownwYsxKT1P7DIM+B36g4jJnFbBx VPo7ucu7OzXp3zwVvX5ftdCQrU1dCKPJJODMVwksU4qrBS0kwMmZPx+za08eEVLR3V3P GCs7XMHsN0CPMgtlklSz+RjT4FqvCQwN7nqXqLKS7LpTYkR/UIVR9oMhDkewxBs9f5q1 TtTDePaKNoCe6EscLltZlGb3G32xv1HH1lK33I2zu+xJMC9mh0R2DnHmo3IRV2oRd92w O0Hw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.35.104 with SMTP id g8mr5018403vdj.20.1346426502672; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.55.9 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:21:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6404136619@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <50186301.9030506@levkowetz.com> <5023CDE2.5050104@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:21:41 +0200 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: "Eggert, Lars" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Ole Jacobsen , "tools-discuss@ietf.org" , Heather Flanagan , RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , "rsag@rfc-editor.org" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:21:44 -0000 Hi Lars, thanks, I was looking for a way to trace the IETF documents, but not only by name, number, date, ..etc. Is it possible to find the depending on status as: update, obsolete, historical, informational, standard, etc. AB On 8/30/12, Eggert, Lars wrote: > On Aug 9, 2012, at 17:53, "Eggert, Lars" wrote: >> one suggestion: I-Ds must be cited as "Work in Progress" only. From the >> boilerplate text: >> >> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months >> and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any >> time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I typically do it like this. Instead of: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, >> "Interface to the Routing System Framework," July 2012, >> draft-ward-irs-framework-00. >> >> I use: >> >> Alia Atlas, Cisco Systems, Dave Ward, Juniper Networks, and Thomas Nadeau, >> "Interface to the Routing System Framework," Internet-Draft >> draft-ward-irs-framework-00, Work in Progress, July 2012. > > Using this string in the "Citation output template for drafts" field on > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ does this: > > {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," Internet-Draft {docname}, Work in Progress, > {date:%B %Y}. > > Make this the default? > > Lars From arusso@amsl.com Fri Aug 31 11:08:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5FB21F8555 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.417 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.417 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.182, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mC2O4ifFtA8d for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B12221F8551 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 737D712BACD; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7LpJeowZpjOy; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc2.home (pool-173-73-60-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net [173.73.60.7]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC37112BAC9; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:08:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Russo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:08:51 -0400 Message-Id: To: Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: RFC Editor , RSOC , RSAG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:08:53 -0000 My 2 cents on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ below. Please note = that I'm speaking for myself, not on behalf of the RFC Production Center = or RFC Editor. As Ole points out, this tool was originally created for creating = reference entries for a specific publication in mind, which is not the = RFC series. I'm hoping to clarify the intended use of the tool (I-D = authors?) and avoid making this topic more confusing for an I-D author. = And, for the small number of authors who have an I-D approved for = publication as an RFC, I'm hoping to avoid "I used the citation tool - = why was this changed?" The citation libraries that some I-D authors use and that yield entries = in the form used in RFCs = (http://www.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc-ref.txt) are: - when using xml2rfc: the XML citation library = (http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/bibxml/ or bibxml3/) - when using NroffEdit: the built-in reference feature (which relies on = rfc-ref.txt) Regarding RFCs: Is the tool's default intended for use by I-D authors? = If so, this change would make it match the ones mentioned above: Current default for "Citation output template for RFCs": {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}," {docname}, {date:%B %Y}. New (comma moved outside quotes): {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", {docname}, {date:%B %Y}. Example: Polk, J., Rosen, B., and J. Peterson, "Location Conveyance for the = Session Initiation Protocol", RFC 6442, December 2011. Regarding Internet-Drafts (a recurring topic, as mentioned): IMHO, = without a decision by the RFC Series Editor to adopt the recommendations = of the citations committee = (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc-citation-recs-01), the = following (B&C) remain in practice. If the tool's default is intended = for I-D authors, is there any desire for A&B to match? A) Current default for "Citation output template for drafts": {authors.andlist}, "{doctitle}," {date:%B %Y}, {docname}. B) What is submitted in an I-D where the author used the xml2rfc = citation library: {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", {docname} (work in progress), {date:%B = %Y}. C) What actually goes in an RFC: {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", Work in Progress, {date:%B %Y}. Thanks, Alice (again: only speaking for myself)= From klensin@jck.com Fri Aug 31 11:41:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EF3721F8539; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:41:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y2u9IdP9EYTM; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B0D721F8534; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.252.137.115] (helo=JcK-HP8200.jck.com) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1T7W9v-0000qg-G0; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:41:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:41:30 -0400 From: John C Klensin To: Alice Russo , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: RSAG , RSOC , RFC Editor Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rsoc] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:41:44 -0000 --On Friday, August 31, 2012 14:08 -0400 Alice Russo wrote: > My 2 cents on http://tools.ietf.org/tools/citation/ below. > Please note that I'm speaking for myself, not on behalf of the > RFC Production Center or RFC Editor. > > As Ole points out, this tool was originally created for > creating reference entries for a specific publication in mind, > which is not the RFC series. I'm hoping to clarify the >... > C) What actually goes in an RFC: > {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", Work in Progress, {date:%B > %Y}. Alice, with the understanding that, while I'd welcome your comments, this is really a question for the RSE (and the "Style Manual" project in particular), has the above really been established as the standard for the RFC Series now? I don't have time to go back and look for examples, but I've got clear memories of times when the RFC Editor insisted that "cited only as 'work in progress'" excluded even the date, leaving a reference of authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", Work in Progress best, john From arusso@amsl.com Fri Aug 31 13:37:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C03C321F85A1 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.445 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.445 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.154, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ey1kjCIDwOnP for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C31021F8597 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A3812BB11; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a+KtlHKJa7rY; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc2.home (pool-173-73-60-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net [173.73.60.7]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85C1612BB10; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 13:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Alice Russo In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:37:27 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9C81E4B9-28DF-4CCF-9EFA-531E8389CF60@amsl.com> References: To: John C Klensin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: RFC Editor , RSOC , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Team Discussion , RSAG Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Rsoc] RFC and I-D Citation Tool X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 20:37:28 -0000 On Aug 31, 2012, at 2:41 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > --On Friday, August 31, 2012 14:08 -0400 Alice Russo > wrote: >=20 >> C) What actually goes in an RFC: >> {authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", Work in Progress, {date:%B >> %Y}. >=20 > Alice, with the understanding that, while I'd welcome your > comments, this is really a question for the RSE (and the "Style > Manual" project in particular), has the above really been > established as the standard for the RFC Series now? =20 Hi John, Simply put (without addressing RSE-ish topics of "established" or = "standard", especially in terms of application of the style guide = past/present/future), it's been in practice for over 4 years and is = documented in http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/rfc-style as: [doe13] Doe, J., "The Deployment of IPv6", Work in Progress, May 2013. > I don't > have time to go back and look for examples, but I've got clear > memories of times when the RFC Editor insisted that "cited only > as 'work in progress'" excluded even the date, leaving a > reference of=20 >=20 > authors.rfclist}, "{doctitle}", Work in Progress The last instances I see are a handful in the RFC 5000s, ending with RFC = 5164 (March 2008). AFAICT, it was used more commonly in RFCs published = in 2007 and earlier. Thanks, Alice=