From nobody Mon Aug 5 10:29:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D00F120297 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:29:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S-LGaBJ52pfi for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E8E01202A4 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.25.117] (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37446317D5 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:29:03 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1565026143; bh=MuWXRW7KUFFERPSnn8lxyymuK3JS5n3wcCuvR7o7HCY=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=qOSsT9oRwPvzKnMyHowDiVIYt7rhIRu53t4UFsaXEqWYGHCPVbbLIacDTSQhItjQR FnX6AdK54k4chUmXnhaMW8AvCEV+vOrMJ978NNNgRpHzuWMPOuGTbmqIMrMAs1Kmij UV3/A33Yz/E99ZxcHCv6ENXLQd2sGsZewA+efpGd/w+oQS6rv2yobezDqbCBGkL25/ 4qPw7S89cAgtXCEGkYvm836gbyQECfupu+PBC1KH/TMaonCL4BdP3Cvu/QRXie1TRy 1hEa3x89ikYk5+IxZDAxjBikAPXmetv/jjn+gIa4N81WXK33PL6tSGAq62drpy6O/e 6bluvScjAQHKw== From: Tom Pusateri Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-096C5803-9F4F-4064-BF6A-3C40EFCEC1DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:29:02 -0400 Message-Id: To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16G77) Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:29:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail-096C5803-9F4F-4064-BF6A-3C40EFCEC1DF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mirja pointed out a problem where a line in our draft looks fine in TXT and H= TML but not in PDF. =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has "TTL=E2=A9=BE0", which gets m= angled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D See: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-push/ Is the datatracker PDF version created by xml2rfc without the =E2=80=94utf8 o= r is it created with Henrik=E2=80=99s scripts from the TXT version? Thanks, Tom= --Apple-Mail-096C5803-9F4F-4064-BF6A-3C40EFCEC1DF Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mirja pointed out a pro= blem where a line in our draft looks fine in TXT and HTML but not in PDF.

=E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has "TTL=E2=A9=BE0", which ge= ts mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D

See:


Is the dat= atracker PDF version created by xml2rfc without the =E2=80=94utf8 or is it c= reated with Henrik=E2=80=99s scripts from the TXT version?

Thanks,
Tom
= --Apple-Mail-096C5803-9F4F-4064-BF6A-3C40EFCEC1DF-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 10:30:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2D51202DE for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:30:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pEWNUkqHNiGv for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B3A51202C9 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:30:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.25.117] (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E5FE317D7; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:30:27 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1565026227; bh=ao1A91Y4ArDveAqkxBmmTiHH60keoK0J2u/xb1JQlPc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=i695cDty8cjonv9tMRXjD1XbDI67deE+C6CrrZOc4nhlwSEFdk/ypqBhMYriIasIO Bxwe8+TNi0ZzUSxRh2bqMEQja6BPklKCUAKGK9D9VYrbyR7uOq8mqu1Xjw0SXNyfvK d5sPEROG5TiRmywmaUVA5LnVjolV0UF5uuO0PidTahfpnZQRUebDWmXeXiaH0CKqpK mzUcXrtWacShgIBOLI9HSmrkVQJEEYkFDXzlkUDcSWAA6SWRRPUzsKclflw4qhBlGW ar8Q13C/bMoy2MxmziNzFGO5/XNr8dWYSQDZFus/7FLOnY8r/WQfQZv429hJgH4wmN yddNSobStZIiQ== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B38DC5F6-1EB7-4AF5-AF56-D0503CDCC7AE Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Tom Pusateri X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16G77) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:30:26 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0A480D9A-2B84-4E28-9BF6-6B27B278A10A@bangj.com> References: To: Tom Pusateri Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:30:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail-B38DC5F6-1EB7-4AF5-AF56-D0503CDCC7AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops, got the reporter wrong:=20 ^Mirja^Alexey > On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:29 PM, Tom Pusateri wrote: >=20 >=20 > Mirja pointed out a problem where a line in our draft looks fine in TXT an= d HTML but not in PDF. >=20 > =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has "TTL=E2=A9=BE0", which gets= mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D >=20 > See: >=20 > https://datatracker..ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-push/ >=20 > Is the datatracker PDF version created by xml2rfc without the =E2=80=94utf= 8 or is it created with Henrik=E2=80=99s scripts from the TXT version? >=20 > Thanks, > Tom > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org --Apple-Mail-B38DC5F6-1EB7-4AF5-AF56-D0503CDCC7AE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oop= s, got the reporter wrong: 

^Mirja^Alexey=

On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:29 PM, Tom Pusateri &= lt;pusateri=3D40ban= gj.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=

Mirja pointed out a problem where a line i= n our draft looks fine in TXT and HTML but not in PDF.

<= div>=E2=80=9COn pa= ge 21, HTML and text version has "TTL=E2=A9=BE0", which gets mangled in PDF v= ersion.=E2=80=9D

See:


Is the datatracker PDF versi= on created by xml2rfc without the =E2=80=94utf8 or is it created with Henrik= =E2=80=99s scripts from the TXT version?

Thanks,
Tom
___________________________________________________________<= br>Tools-discuss mailing list
Tools-discuss@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/tools-discuss

Please report <= a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org">datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
bugs a= t http://tools.ietf.org/tools= /ietfdb
or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
Please report tools.ietf.org bu= gs at
http://= tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org
= --Apple-Mail-B38DC5F6-1EB7-4AF5-AF56-D0503CDCC7AE-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 10:54:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F54120256 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D6NCEO6dveqh for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94FC31202C1 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 10:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p548DCCB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 462QPS4PpTz10dx; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 19:54:04 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 19:54:04 +0200 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 586720442.1925-6755ac145f2e6e9a46b31bb19385adc0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> References: To: Tom Pusateri X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:54:21 -0000 On Aug 5, 2019, at 19:29, Tom Pusateri = wrote: >=20 > =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has =E2=80=9CTTL=E2=A9=BE0", = which gets mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D Well, you have a=20 U+2A7E GREATER-THAN OR SLANTED EQUAL TO there. I think you want a U+2265 GREATER-THAN OR EQUAL TO (I have no comment on the PDF situation.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Aug 5 11:01:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B211202FA for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 11:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id drdbhGARpVQZ for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 11:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 982BF1202E3 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 11:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.25.146] (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3EB8317E7; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:01:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1565028067; bh=yuOevQLzBsYEm8HaTiJTNzYa9n/WhxOc+Ex3wNHvxjY=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=mysYAqSSgEjm8yYeC4/bTLicrwJk1FEagypi6bhpQ12xqKKyQKiK+BEVvXQY02Uwl 1fprQApxgdYhlS0BXxmvEM9Q+oald1f1xmIyFjPGdSbHGpNQoVvuFHE+9RB/eEGegF LGlYb/Bi8jU3zZFgEYxWq8rwsAXSt873BMBtkg3ovXoW61ylV4l0SdeXcd13qaltKr Wsbc7JUVf+N7LOsL1VvGABFuXSrhc/cb1WDAUiLGVzu4WDESa4/GqaFi6Hb1Hwtaud iYna0JI4jNgq4YmrqHZ4hMLfUscZihbA8h9+AYNKzWTLBfLcvo4wuI6f+zv4KuI+px PWLXg828i43iA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3570.1\)) From: Tom Pusateri In-Reply-To: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:01:07 -0400 Cc: Tom Pusateri , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3570.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 18:01:22 -0000 > On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Aug 5, 2019, at 19:29, Tom Pusateri = wrote: >>=20 >> =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has =E2=80=9CTTL=E2=A9=BE0",= which gets mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D >=20 > Well, you have a=20 >=20 > U+2A7E GREATER-THAN OR SLANTED EQUAL TO >=20 > there. I think you want a >=20 > U+2265 GREATER-THAN OR EQUAL TO >=20 > (I have no comment on the PDF situation.) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten Thanks. My co-author inserted it and also added the =E2=80=94utf8 switch = but I see that is now deprecated: xml2rfc --utf8 draft-ietf-dnssd-push.xml -o draft-ietf-dnssd-push.html = --html Warning: The --utf8 switch is deprecated. Use the new unicode insertion = element Thanks, Tom= From nobody Mon Aug 5 13:13:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A0612028C for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KJ0MvM-MLURZ for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF4B3120164 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:51903 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hujM6-000799-RZ; Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:13:20 -0700 To: Tom Pusateri , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <2b6812d5-644e-2775-74ce-e826f9d0e3bd@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:13:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BpXc1plmKThEu8LhtQqJQ7QkX8pg6KmU9" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, pusateri=40bangj.com@dmarc.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 20:13:23 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --BpXc1plmKThEu8LhtQqJQ7QkX8pg6KmU9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="n6wl5ePnALVPB0ulqQAOXAs926FbiaI2t"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Tom Pusateri , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <2b6812d5-644e-2775-74ce-e826f9d0e3bd@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker References: In-Reply-To: --n6wl5ePnALVPB0ulqQAOXAs926FbiaI2t Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Replying to your messages in order: On 2019-08-05 19:29, Tom Pusateri wrote: >=20 > Mirja pointed out a problem where a line in our draft looks fine in > TXT and HTML but not in PDF. >=20 > =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has "TTL=E2=A9=BE0", which g= ets mangled in > PDF version.=E2=80=9D >=20 > See: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnssd-push/ >=20 > Is the datatracker PDF version created by xml2rfc without the =E2=80=94= utf8 > or is it created with Henrik=E2=80=99s scripts from the TXT version? The latter. And it has problems with UTF8. I've tried to mitigate that,= but it's not perfect. Eventually, the PDF will be generated directly from the xml when the xml is provided, but the needed work still remains to be done. Best regards, Henrik --n6wl5ePnALVPB0ulqQAOXAs926FbiaI2t-- --BpXc1plmKThEu8LhtQqJQ7QkX8pg6KmU9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1IjdUACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrRvg//YBQFjRQtzVpQeA/CFbVRGnp/efHFwElbxWEYUxxJGQt8vaHelyPWWP53 Pao6MW7a25fdEzV3wyj8ghcDf907+EO/rP0WMiYPLdWceUS+Ih/GpGfsmbTlgQ2G 5A0fW8L62ffJdLGkkjZCB9/q6fojAwbGWuu1tfkZPnf85MxK6OlmFNhGCHQgqGz2 p34iHTGinOx2c7trxAbRldekZTQfaDK9H2+EY/XvxRlpNaiZk5vS89xf10nyjXKq MEj32z31yW/9faW/hLti13fu2DWG40jcfNPVOS7KNu44IX0Hke2VJ9HL7L/iHP63 u5eg9M/aSyca1MVfrcrQfbbQyFlgvVlHSa6pFhxzi3IQA7/bI4MdDqBfZlE7WOSq jXEU9itAgi3u2e0gH4zxwxDQ1pZbXb6MloXPwxR8YVPYFzsMfk7kq/YwMs7P/bLJ iPfLjbJ9aDL+Bwuh5FAN4pt/g/iYjCbXFXRz1eAHreGIte+DO9ho6ShRIzM6u8QZ Mxl8MY+8x3xfqkM9H0BkgoDa95aa0s24elXYZcta+GQV7Eo1qmTesN1yRZpcigo5 ZZcomreoC2GYbi9/A2IhpxylzVVenmD/9AbrH+fFBQ2pZXZkzntt+6qJ9Ek60flJ 0VhQ8i8UaA4Is22S2uM4kGY7blePFvpDUDkziPwVrpe/6zVW/i0= =ODq0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BpXc1plmKThEu8LhtQqJQ7QkX8pg6KmU9-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 13:16:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F3312012A for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:16:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-b7plF46uPb for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40E2F1200D8 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:51941 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1hujPI-0000Li-ON; Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:16:38 -0700 To: Tom Pusateri , Carsten Bormann References: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <499800be-6624-8b70-3516-3d9c07392b2f@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:16:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dmjqm9wvWIC7lWgF47rfXrHhpTF2qNEnS" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cabo@tzi.org, pusateri=40bangj.com@dmarc.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 20:16:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --dmjqm9wvWIC7lWgF47rfXrHhpTF2qNEnS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="gJUhEsbhAb0TosGtVCdaGl0w3xvjoHOmv"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Tom Pusateri , Carsten Bormann Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <499800be-6624-8b70-3516-3d9c07392b2f@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker References: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: --gJUhEsbhAb0TosGtVCdaGl0w3xvjoHOmv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, On 2019-08-05 20:01, Tom Pusateri wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>=20 >> On Aug 5, 2019, at 19:29, Tom Pusateri wrote: >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has =E2=80=9CTTL=E2=A9=BE0= ", which gets mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> Well, you have a=20 >>=20 >> U+2A7E GREATER-THAN OR SLANTED EQUAL TO >>=20 >> there. I think you want a >>=20 >> U+2265 GREATER-THAN OR EQUAL TO >>=20 >> (I have no comment on the PDF situation.) >>=20 >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > Thanks. My co-author inserted it and also added the =E2=80=94utf8 switc= h but I see that is now deprecated: >=20 > xml2rfc --utf8 draft-ietf-dnssd-push.xml -o draft-ietf-dnssd-push.html = --html > Warning: The --utf8 switch is deprecated. Use the new unicode insertio= n element In this case (since the PDF is created from the htmlized text), this is irrelevant. However, even if --utf8 (for v2 xml) is deprecated, it still works for so= me uses. Going forward, it will eventually be removed. But the bug here is= in the htmlized-text to pdf processing, not in whether --utf8 is used or not= =2E Henrik --gJUhEsbhAb0TosGtVCdaGl0w3xvjoHOmv-- --dmjqm9wvWIC7lWgF47rfXrHhpTF2qNEnS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1IjpsACgkQTptXS4+7 Fxr+NRAAlDXv+fBLoQWMX9a8EWKIIYK8grwf/oGY3pgcTL+5gV9lgr5jiF9xTkOn oN6zi4L+1joHxWEvli5ppOHOWOdxnQZK7tLbFF+Oh7AtHMzxz6zATfdBlNHsfF/L vbLmVp9UqiuN3wpzULAv80XYrZGi4EWgMoRHZAEKIgaEUNoyMQl1IbSSOvTG73sq Hb2U/gpu08lr1n6hgYXA36TUHO7NcX+VStPgshf7mnZKkqcMt9hz+gRybib5JVx/ KYM7yj2VhxkbdAJr3LadJ5hwWtlJGPWXwdIChvnkKFi9Vznw5S9SCrGxhHEu42AP 7UzTuFR3wKDV2zydf72Dw4/svYIcZTHeDors/7vqHLzX/mDMzAqPEHoxtOF9xbL8 4WTT2OTpQe6KzPfWWOeXTZDn4q/Is+PtnoG8Pl3WIDf3WGB0pWov+AQnjVky+cJQ JTWgHuME7sjaAJjq2Kc+FuxYB1Nf3zHxlTeaCOp4OOm1IKPpkz/P2TDfw7Kq9HRj zhT1M1F+liOxhHcpa+kbMfsjz0VZMGuwIVr/Ber+hYqiUysuD/pB8RoM7BAOuQdi LPsiJIdxqBNDZUvZ+VW9dyq16bzXTGZTidR0X8m63BTd5m5Z9GmOu1lflqQGgPNV 3K+KG9QgSf3VvJBjDXkkPhyWhps2JImI5Jo2AZxfbTV4SwO+dOI= =m8eg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dmjqm9wvWIC7lWgF47rfXrHhpTF2qNEnS-- From nobody Mon Aug 5 14:05:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D761202AA for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:05:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tr86RsNM6ONK for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B5191202A5 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.25.117] (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4364431834; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:04:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1565039098; bh=qVsYzJfli/bdMkRVig4ssH8R/O/sBesxj7QurXzvuq4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=o/xv8k+HL9cCK06ehoo3/M/hr78CBEq1hjoXFLyqgOfFGUYBmZ6oHbux/+309J/jK 0y5CmS0Vykx0mbV6b6ujBOyEE5ivrueK0G5AARDPpZPH1DN7rAqvuLyBEO7hNluHwa mCGwTy7Ug3AcAeHsLcU2IT8he1oKiKrqEVfo169h/mmrMbboxhturmsjdedjW8Z00q s+hvc54ccvKarJ/G8KW4Klo0g5R5sQDmZujvFv4UeHnsdVHWxvFUPncsxadSSMqaNE LXoZP4kajmQu/R3yjfbzZ0vbGSOKKNgg9IzQl12dzO06/s34/hgfOUtSpWROiDETxC 1REPSEHBB9JeA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Tom Pusateri X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16G77) In-Reply-To: <499800be-6624-8b70-3516-3d9c07392b2f@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:04:57 -0400 Cc: Tom Pusateri , Carsten Bormann , tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E31A757-CECF-4F6E-B7F9-B1BF075F3404@bangj.com> References: <96DA1C37-0268-4D29-B472-3BB38AE1ED5A@tzi.org> <499800be-6624-8b70-3516-3d9c07392b2f@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] UTF-8 in PDF on datatracker X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 21:05:02 -0000 > On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:= >=20 > Hi Tom, >=20 >> On 2019-08-05 20:01, Tom Pusateri wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Aug 5, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>>=20 >>> On Aug 5, 2019, at 19:29, Tom Pusateri wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=9COn page 21, HTML and text version has =E2=80=9CTTL=E2=A9=BE0",= which gets mangled in PDF version.=E2=80=9D >>>=20 >>> Well, you have a=20 >>>=20 >>> U+2A7E GREATER-THAN OR SLANTED EQUAL TO >>>=20 >>> there. I think you want a >>>=20 >>> U+2265 GREATER-THAN OR EQUAL TO >>>=20 >>> (I have no comment on the PDF situation.) >>>=20 >>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >>=20 >> Thanks. My co-author inserted it and also added the =E2=80=94utf8 switch b= ut I see that is now deprecated: >>=20 >> xml2rfc --utf8 draft-ietf-dnssd-push.xml -o draft-ietf-dnssd-push.html --= html >> Warning: The --utf8 switch is deprecated. Use the new unicode insertion e= lement >=20 > In this case (since the PDF is created from the htmlized text), this is > irrelevant. >=20 > However, even if --utf8 (for v2 xml) is deprecated, it still works for som= e > uses. Going forward, it will eventually be removed. But the bug here is i= n > the htmlized-text to pdf processing, not in whether --utf8 is used or not.= >=20 >=20 > Henrik In this case, for v2 or v3, I don=E2=80=99t think these two options (=E2=80=94= utf8 and ) are equivalent. In the current xml2rfc using v2 input, the =E2=80=94utf8 option is necessary= to get the correct TXT and HTML output. The element will not do this as currently defined and seems to be for a d= ifferent purpose. Thanks, Tom= From nobody Mon Aug 12 15:30:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7DC120FB9 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FNyrDSRTV_QK for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACFE112216A for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id v19so321594wmj.5 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8Ndga7kWpT/6726oijNsRiVZfW+p44Qq7vcHwnH5xDs=; b=asO4o3DrfxtO+07xgibaNfpkE/vOD9yZp/4nbQjd7vf8P3JMittkjSYyeQAlDJQQFC Wswavb72Ic1Zn51L1dUBr8QtF6O6kqp8FA9tK4EH/nO035S2dOWujxNIEF1ESS/aY7vY hVfA+cyRSglmJMVVcpewuw2OIv9Er+YBpe7LPTeDzhLiG4UIAtDRSG6BWljmH6xVabF7 mweFblk4jKrLfUCT37r/X8SPKDAl8CN7Kx9Zu09cPeFJVubb0b5tEbBGZMDayzXJcCOw 3ROlBsVIEt+7OlDUbRRNkoSUAdlIFSF4myntlz0UJbdRgawKhEHlL1stupD4J53lBwLP ETQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8Ndga7kWpT/6726oijNsRiVZfW+p44Qq7vcHwnH5xDs=; b=SlNVwAATkcjlJ/7nvv520T2MqZoAoaYmwuHBeUuy8LqctxAF2+aGTM2mQWMkMHTZrX GACG9yXXhD/z8Ra2ABAIV3EEu/iQmjRfeZB5kwaxItHTQsNfQy4YsVNwohMi5r8VYpS0 4QDT2ncppoRB0g++LrpFPOekdy1dUB3WK31EC+14w9wGK8/6HH3UORe7zyWC6Xt2g9s8 a3QOdUTYwpTP0+tR6nK3axCZqC0JcOU0N1jV8sgpdpuQS4brKqibox3wOB9m3KOn8rVM p2oulBj1swLTQL62rnSg1dfGnICbhTqMgMKdJat0kIXWwmowKF5VBHNTZ5rumVanL+F8 TW5g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWV+KbTda2av+dosNNA9y/zg2arnGHPsSdFbgfAKoGzcy6sqN+z 46I62mgVJFNl0ko8Nm5Zrblst+V0TYsIoBGt81bAiiuAatc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzBUMmf2CNB0u4G/T9gWNMWpSoj0gHMGl2QRbB7R3CWoHEvP/ocnBwzOhxMRXoC/XyrfQ4W42QJKPWe3lghkj4= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c347:: with SMTP id l7mr425825wmj.163.1565631927823; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:45:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeff Hodges Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 10:45:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Cc: ietf-action@ietf.org, "=JeffH" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e8bc61058fef16da" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] 404'g: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 22:30:04 -0000 --000000000000e8bc61058fef16da Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" this link 404's: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 please fix? Thanks, HTH, =JeffH --000000000000e8bc61058fef16da Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
this link 404's:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -ietf-tls-grease-03

please fix?

Thanks,= HTH,

=3DJeffH
--000000000000e8bc61058fef16da-- From nobody Mon Aug 12 15:55:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 491FB120BB9 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:55:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BLRMu4PafcIf for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DA76120C44 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60A8E1C1080 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-f54.google.com (mail-ot1-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47DFB1C107D for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f54.google.com with SMTP id f17so29820686otq.4 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVaLeSElgkkzvtd4g1ji9c1eHDjgJ/RRFdHKutf/QvHuDd9Mhlb Gh4mPDpQNHNPAm9KT8uikJPWMg/zJlAhL1P7g6U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxeZnFkJkwtqABiHfLEDIcUFoK1rQ8ZpECGh6cIiDTJM/GuemOPkiDpGBNXHp15gZ1FvaAdu7LuHBzLBioRFFU= X-Received: by 2002:aca:da56:: with SMTP id r83mr879125oig.84.1565649430377; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:37:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Glen Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:36:59 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Jeff Hodges Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] 404'g: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 22:55:56 -0000 Hi Jeff - Removing IETF-Action (and I'll clear that ticket) since this is on Henrik's own servers... Henrik is on vacation at the moment, but he will see this when he returns. In the meantime, perhaps this will help: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03.txt Sorry for the inconvenience! Glen -- Glen Barney IT Director AMS (IETF Secretariat) On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:30 PM Jeff Hodges wrote: > > this link 404's: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 > > please fix? > > Thanks, HTH, > > =JeffH > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org From nobody Mon Aug 12 16:00:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D803120880 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:00:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1iOrOni-8BcW for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF471120EF1 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id g17so106002263wrr.5 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fP94MHaTmP2xGDzkMZzqxbZr/WbP3/0ZM5n2PqSxYeI=; b=RswY6sPnYpTH39otBDmbNuy8HJKfj4WIkvqMxzD1M6+0MKWLP7BPRAugmTM1aC3VoL ERSmL3bac/1sVciMWt7g1rUWzGCyd+cZbicMjdVWYYc5PR5zzT1sKysRxEOwJzmmwqG6 i7DFEMMGEkt2Gx0OsuE6UN7pOrKvGrH9Qt9N968l+nkiME5t7SpS0ph2gtGKrkBX5lCF 4hTyNqWueaWILpGVdx1Wb9KxMe2CGjeZ+GGpdYg1ce6q+vjeHlpCt9LroWk4g1WyX0Pu At4sz6OyEvoeROFzwKP3UQX+S+bwLcemNDlB4/E23jxyWkPNYwlNl8/wiLGmUQkOZCtA tmMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fP94MHaTmP2xGDzkMZzqxbZr/WbP3/0ZM5n2PqSxYeI=; b=cjZlxBUlgNyklDTasU7zlOm0Y3iCIKBnbKnuu0pDqzNtAj+mE4c0I5xYSEexKh0HEu N+jKw45h9ini0zqHTTIbR0tWolMPeDUdfQBExHvLYlYqSLL9l1eTR3L+e1mF3myqn3aa Cp14fGgPNu9cBqYt6EKjwAcIT+0VxHlDAYFAK/r0ztqSHVgG7gOYVC5PH6sHzv17BADZ syt1RPQY19TLVgHjs8jMChFkA4MrxXMhu/rTmuPi+TQBODJ9ZWsCacW3umwHrrQCz7hk u1zRya/wnESmG5w/dniU21I7hAQ2y+IKFpRLkYSvFjLVG66ihmqyFc4T/hLpM/axqwF5 /2sQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWxs8f0mM/nOkdmxVjwDozm2XBohi3wsRog6AU9Ax5vO/dTfa54 Vo0UGF5e9vNZQTeQHFxot6l/JaexnNREyZjxymaw3i37 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzzX1dfRQ1sya82CrnRmj5rIjoHJ8djzsPG9fkWozhq6upqvF/B8FT2Vtx3M9tRlqVlYxxPnvLy3TRC8V8Ty1A= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f304:: with SMTP id i4mr13482656wro.61.1565650708976; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jeff Hodges Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:58:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: Glen Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005a5cb2058ff3763b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] 404'g: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:00:55 -0000 --0000000000005a5cb2058ff3763b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" thanks! :) On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:56 PM Glen wrote: > Hi Jeff - > > Removing IETF-Action (and I'll clear that ticket) since this is on > Henrik's own servers... > > Henrik is on vacation at the moment, but he will see this when he returns. > > In the meantime, perhaps this will help: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03.txt > > Sorry for the inconvenience! > > Glen > -- > Glen Barney > IT Director > AMS (IETF Secretariat) > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:30 PM Jeff Hodges > wrote: > > > > this link 404's: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 > > > > please fix? > > > > Thanks, HTH, > > > > =JeffH > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list > > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org > -- Thanks, HTH, =JeffH --0000000000005a5cb2058ff3763b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
thanks! :)

On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:56 PM Glen <glen@amsl.com> wrote:
Hi Jeff -

Removing IETF-Action (and I'll clear that ticket) since this is on
Henrik's own servers...

Henrik is on vacation at the moment, but he will see this when he returns.<= br>
In the meantime, perhaps this will help:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ie= tf-tls-grease-03.txt

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Glen
--
Glen Barney
IT Director
AMS (IETF Secretariat)


On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 3:30 PM Jeff Hodges
<jdhodges=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> this link 404's:
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tl= s-grease-03
>
> please fix?
>
> Thanks, HTH,
>
> =3DJeffH
> ___________________________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-disc= uss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-= discuss
>
> Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
> bugs at
http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
> or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org
>
> Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
> http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
> or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org


--
Thanks, HTH,

=3DJef= fH
--0000000000005a5cb2058ff3763b-- From nobody Mon Aug 12 16:01:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0563120127 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:01:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6OQP1z4Z8tQT for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from formal.dehy.de (formal.dehy.de [81.169.166.228]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F588120123 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pikantus.localnet (cable-78-34-78-128.nc.de [78.34.78.128]) by formal.dehy.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id x7CN1eYa022577; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:01:42 +0200 From: Antony Stone Organization: Open Source IT To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:01:35 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.2.0-4-amd64; KDE/4.8.4; x86_64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: X-From: pikantus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201908130101.35732.Antony.Stone@open.source.it> X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (formal.dehy.de [81.169.166.228]); Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] 404'g: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:01:49 -0000 On Monday 12 August 2019 at 19:45:01, Jeff Hodges wrote: > this link 404's: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 > > please fix? Please let us know where you find that link? https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03.txt appears to be what you need. -- Antony Stone Systems admin IETF Tools servers https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonystone From nobody Mon Aug 12 16:19:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0280D120018 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:19:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id En75KGxprqpp for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:19:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from formal.dehy.de (formal.dehy.de [81.169.166.228]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64DBA12000E for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pikantus.localnet (cable-78-34-78-128.nc.de [78.34.78.128]) by formal.dehy.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5+lenny1) with ESMTP id x7CNItdx024333; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:18:59 +0200 From: Antony Stone Organization: Open Source IT To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:18:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.2.0-4-amd64; KDE/4.8.4; x86_64; ; ) References: <201908130101.35732.Antony.Stone@open.source.it> In-Reply-To: <201908130101.35732.Antony.Stone@open.source.it> X-From: pikantus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201908130118.49901.Antony.Stone@open.source.it> X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (formal.dehy.de [81.169.166.228]); Tue, 13 Aug 2019 01:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] 404'g: tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:19:08 -0000 On Tuesday 13 August 2019 at 01:01:35, Antony Stone wrote: > On Monday 12 August 2019 at 19:45:01, Jeff Hodges wrote: > > this link 404's: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03 > > > > please fix? > > Please let us know where you find that link? > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03.txt appears to be what > you need. Sorry, if you want the HTML version, it's https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tls-grease-03.html Regards, -- Antony Stone Systems admin IETF Tools servers https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonystone From nobody Mon Aug 26 12:56:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45981120D92 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qpr_V-2BxFD9 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17DDF120D84 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id j4so2350394lfh.8 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LpyKLVOjiWJ6dyjJKEQqP5qKg4xVjU6/POOKmHya8xw=; b=t2L4VCZRecAlRwDD5wjpD4Ve6LTo1UVJq763013F7SBVfIQwnMhy6SwUR9X2v3gnVq dEehCcyUcO2DyU5ZOAwM6Upxm7TBaGta1xVHXrE6NxEdsW+lRvYSCXUGVS2g+HSJeGxz 5DNk8rwGRxbV07ixM2KEyCDxkNCUwa5Yy2w7oxqKKpxFnsPQY+6jG5BrpqE/fWxWygr3 6LFwyCzvkjdseBN+8pE5uuv1WAK1pMP1hFUe20rttF5POdc96kVgT+MEAm+Ewjif6zi1 ykFkfJiDxXgFyhiuG5o2Aao2GNlNpBv+uxtAkAII8UwQbv6zlcrDpCXunaczT+ciZ0gf mODQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LpyKLVOjiWJ6dyjJKEQqP5qKg4xVjU6/POOKmHya8xw=; b=FKYg7pcyDhjFKZ6kbq2v5fVYV/vJTkFN1/7InVani79++htsO1vabBMiZZVGNUC8Xh bLlPO9GpE1wmbPpBnR6qGYtdOKvh7wAwzHjxLs51jAuOavDi0VGCtEgrGC1MHK+TVyfV OYD85jXoHFgc+Ap2Y9lQ4sf1n4N7uCqevFtZ69pAlEDfAkW0DktrpamAMjDflTJmgRUb 1+l586TowtarUcDp7Gy3ev6jO/oL78nBBMsuSEFfA7p2+i61pjfl4sOI5rsDdBALA/gi rHoS4Z2nAsAbLTa9v6drPN7LlYT3o28le4w8hWti5YEz5ZJYbce0n9lZxr+mYrPDTAN9 1JpA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWoFA5FtxS3WR+zzb99DMxybmX+gueQ3YNvDBz4x+9eHn67MtBw przqLYZfbEjfpvxHW6PpJlov3QX+eAt5yxSUbnIj9UpIEsdj+w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw79oWksP5o6LD2DWSyt4PULO99Rl60LEK9QFNppsde25vAFtv6fJhfgbgSf1kDa/2YlErQX3s5j1ItC6tIMaQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:65:: with SMTP id i5mr5501942lfo.35.1566849383639; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeffrey Yasskin Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:56:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000edfd2c05910a8ca6" Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 19:56:31 -0000 --000000000000edfd2c05910a8ca6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4838#section-3.6.2 renders with the two lines of the section title on top of each other. This appears to happen because the CSS gives class="h4" the style "line-height: 0pt;". If rfcmarkup isn't the tool that generates this HTML, could you point this bug report in the right direction? Thanks, Jeffrey --000000000000edfd2c05910a8ca6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4838#section-3.6.2=C2=A0renders= with the two lines of the section title on top of each other. This appears= to happen because the CSS gives class=3D"h4" the style "lin= e-height: 0pt;".

If rfcmarkup isn't t= he tool that generates this HTML, could you point this bug report in the ri= ght direction?

Thanks,
Jeffrey
--000000000000edfd2c05910a8ca6-- From nobody Mon Aug 26 22:42:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B46120F39 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:42:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SFtQtnpdNd04 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC494120F10 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 22:42:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1566884526; bh=qF3RmakA+wPhHVxcdCCXJX6JL9wq8200DIdfGsB6zdc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=K0da1HBfNKRDpE0ixlEkLhBTIwg+BjimaFZGPkv60Tk+htnXiLRj/ziYMc1oACMRQ kY0kJafFRP5410ICkdHHYEzol8d3owYjIGhVrtjquItyV4EIQeiKBArgE5eP7Fv18D Rk/2HgAl2IVHGq60v4gqbg6l07JddTI3nlK0D9NE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.157.68]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MysRk-1iOqNy38qo-00vvXk; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:42:06 +0200 To: Jeffrey Yasskin , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <96dd460f-a9cf-f141-0e28-477343b7e055@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:42:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:35gVC4ct85CyJxX1fnoLfl+c2q5oDQ62PK/XFbcp0oKH9lQEmZu UZXDGW3caEJyEbqcJjcZIOlGsPKmkQ/8618Bs2aU0CwpAoZRy4FbHFGjtaR0yiHUpO4/3Mr xYpGcITit0D2WAgbf7Mn0klNpkL/L1VyDhpbV/8xzVfN943iLIwbGbUxcCIdrHgMytl8BoQ czcJWl6zBMGVGIShhE/dg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Gi6GX2cgnIY=:GqZGLSzE2F504lV07w1e8p jqvYrF23tyR9DHAEiTW6My790czgybBh+cyGS+qbO9l98fR7ZhaLn8t1l71ygJxEjo59WO6uX yB2KXunBlgKELPrtNWsrXmWvGyyy+bLU2v5qlyPccdc5LWPOn0SbdvGMUod0NFRNqyHmj4qhF S0Ot8u7WIS6cpFPfPhZDFtmWkRVi3E59Gg+w9yLGNUP0rYcTm8Kn6V7dpJc5s/jubhFwKFpHY DkEqtFZXgTZzBVMu3K+OqGGLonVG3SEy98Rn0n5lrU0hqmg4de4Uc/wHUrC2DIBTDHz/m3kHX EYoD7Bx+zeufnfn/aQArREFVv0U78DePmGs/ozEl/Y+jfOAsAmtkz904eeA51b0myBP6a9RCS 7XCmnjUDDWKKLoScRTnzvLPySlm6kY3mOGi6j2eiQXZuuwkgxHfBbxxwpNmcnM+Yu28aQKEdr wizOOtdhiISZg7deULM7ECmHa3aNu3nbrNBjv+LqEXZb+XDaaCrEV+R+XttTeQbWwsr5rLKni ZMAY6Og2VAV2ZalE81vhBnsQGa+cISDRs1pRAJ//G1pRuB4xyGHJmUd2RVJicSB8BGH23CEin HfntC3a7DcHJAYJ8wGPD3s1OfYNJ/r1Wb98a6ybNXpwbLcT7i8nnBPHCwXW/DaZdXxRLkR/vq Jq0DO9hF6Sf2Ly89fhGKckPsGXI/bz1nneZ6XQ6P8hSqYBwVjnfYzfPgo0LzdnWVyiOLdvMjq U3Gf4p9sH2SspzVKrxLgjL+hJlrUIvY3U60++KHsEBx+RyLfMd+0LZ0CYEnVhMDP95mX0pQw/ KeWPSkuMvDdc4CPmKBkLv+hoSPx5Kk+LSnJebyAn2Zlznki/+jZOBQIki8gc5nq177LeNQdn9 vfs7fKmK5AoC7VQNwq8v7iy596FQinXZxSLOhCTCdlXdvcxIHbbpul9n3/PPVMO8M5O7ZS7iu aN9uN0FzRfqrTJx+ueci0ORO0u3H5DMYfx1ELPCYEM4Jlqw7V3ItR21eK2ZvNQ3lFoWM4sZsA RhggcO1lRbezrBpNYznAyx/OB2gi9qdjvGPEtN9lnDIBgwhn3+hKCKMq4KDIFEp4TXsgkZzQ4 qD8BhHFiuQXWLuzeablwNF7VQ1/2GZ3x/HV/In+Ti6sLeJivUCAoQGvXaw3IXGoAnn18Yz7jE I49qs= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 05:42:17 -0000 On 26.08.2019 21:56, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4838#section-3.6.2=C2=A0renders with the = two > lines of the section title on top of each other. This appears to happen > because the CSS gives class=3D"h4" the style "line-height: 0pt;". > ... Seems to work fine in Firefox and Chrome... From nobody Mon Aug 26 23:19:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6610E1200C4 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pt0iCPwSxwLx for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00D58120FAB for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:64352 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1i2Uox-0005Ch-D5; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:19:12 -0700 To: Jeffrey Yasskin , tools-discuss@ietf.org References: From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 08:19:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6sPlAEhvb9bpe6Mp5XHtCk8ieaDimebnv" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, jyasskin=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 06:19:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --6sPlAEhvb9bpe6Mp5XHtCk8ieaDimebnv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8JgR9q4AM9ieingqh4TSjsO3T1S0dRFk2"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Jeffrey Yasskin , tools-discuss@ietf.org Message-ID: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug References: In-Reply-To: --8JgR9q4AM9ieingqh4TSjsO3T1S0dRFk2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeffrey, On 2019-08-26 21:56, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4838#section-3.6.2 renders with the two > lines of the section title on top of each other. This appears to happen= > because the CSS gives class=3D"h4" the style "line-height: 0pt;". >=20 > If rfcmarkup isn't the tool that generates this HTML, could you point t= his > bug report in the right direction? This does not happen with the browsers available to me (various versions of Firefox, Safari, Mobile Safari, Chrome). In which browser (name and version) do you see this? Regards, Henrik --8JgR9q4AM9ieingqh4TSjsO3T1S0dRFk2-- --6sPlAEhvb9bpe6Mp5XHtCk8ieaDimebnv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1ky1gACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrO6A//To55KNMiQE7UU1IdmIDBatvycrXReALtWYWF2icH3zFat+ewVqBoNg7r b4ZawfiSkpfF2ourI8XIK8+/o/NWXgvmGcaEf4/3V7aG5NYlnkTuQ+CIGzpd/+aH Dg0ylZZLRiifppN1dKMPILCzaB02ARlEbnjOi5a+9o79Fn0K4g1ENjfMtmsR06qI zO3PHamlrG+OAnlrygsaIWylY6JEUS+Cvl7hT0f1yqhxQbwlUgVtyyFMSiFNhrGS jrc80zb6G90PiKKwQ6pXLuzAJRwYafiVLXS8Yo662Yiu5bJ0iUycfA/yW6PgqRLM RqkFGPkVTIBtpZBMZo8dF7TLwG5TMwCvywpE3IZ9Uviiq6h890PolrMBT3oBFoyR QDbfPIrQsd7CooOFHobkSqQqk1dFq+KfRNGe61005lVln02WZfoHSdGNKZJ8iLf/ rrMJiWuC1cDMQfunCEpLw8jPd/Qoq3CMzpeJV/zd6IXJ/B6GEDHRxSJurVq7/BEJ DUpMI5dNL1pY4YTFT3XZSVfsLBPXUHYXfm54ytOeiajTfJcUBEYoVd3zA4NkDvIk ZGVeqQwBesG/BXTrjSlQizaAXXKaEvRZPHdWtN0R+3OMVVqvAWVUeCkOKyFWffZr oSy55yJ3rdKcpCsV6w40Adp8oDRNJWpvieSWp/PwmLiyz+UN7Jo= =nlm6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6sPlAEhvb9bpe6Mp5XHtCk8ieaDimebnv-- From nobody Tue Aug 27 07:30:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 481B4120865 for ; 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Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:30:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 10:29:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: Henrik Levkowetz Cc: Jeffrey Yasskin , Tools Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:30:16 -0000 Broken for me -- image: http://www.owl-stretching-time.com/css.png Running: Google Chrome77.0.3865.42 (Official Build) beta (64-bit) Revision560add2406a0e2970a0c7983e3a3fb36bcdc7d5c-refs/branch-heads/3865@{#523} OSmacOS Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G87) JavaScriptV8 7.7.299.4 W On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 2:19 AM Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Hi Jeffrey, > > On 2019-08-26 21:56, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4838#section-3.6.2 renders with the two > > lines of the section title on top of each other. This appears to happen > > because the CSS gives class="h4" the style "line-height: 0pt;". > > > > If rfcmarkup isn't the tool that generates this HTML, could you point this > > bug report in the right direction? > > This does not happen with the browsers available to me (various versions > of Firefox, Safari, Mobile Safari, Chrome). In which browser (name and > version) do you see this? > > > Regards, > > Henrik > > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Aug 27 07:57:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F899120098 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:57:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id StTzAIOVHEf4 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC3941200D6 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:57:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1566917832; bh=+7JY0TLTcpnJKHmcsaSEfP+o5pfAtKyi9wwf/GiicEk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=My7B+6K4JuX30SMM6eiMsUYENBInh1p+0nw//S9AkQT3JoZYjwRRKOrPZ0moAPgu3 kjBMSO6+6btCmzqqr6mdYYPHAgVt7y+jUhX/LR6QvF1HVr6p6zcx+g9JAjHFPGxV28 rU3Xq+4AWzjM7KxZDzme/YDDPKPYYicW+sChZ2Z4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M9b03-1hvFBv0Jah-00D1MQ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:57:12 +0200 To: Warren Kumari , Henrik Levkowetz Cc: Jeffrey Yasskin , Tools Discussion References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:57:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:PXBrEPTJGiH3y/zRXDmmSpKpgGIStcqO1iEzXXTT59nwc8tNU88 Jvbr+9mWGibGkhB24hUkhtY2y4UErYmdCzLxy7kqOQBsK74+umdNtGJEmYycPLP+eM8tLqi OxrUUxtoN3GdRqsErmMOkYPhpzBPNnTldfGW1tluae9IJWTMgmjIMG6I2Mok5BvJxKbHz47 Xqi2jzHdZrA9KqqUA2NSg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:v6c5e2Hy2yA=:6KTjjAS3mnHJuW0xktpjq/ +cJ/kKM8k29ltcgzirJt3gJ7ZBJ8zXTVkEg5bAeBvZsDJswbqXGA6nz6owRkel0tvhmI5n2rG wzMq+hz5lpqCkySFgYq6oF28oItm8xLs6D405Fj8QsDkzWd4xybMjxrsxE/zsvkEg4Wvyxmk0 9v5YNUK+bXXmoqevmBDl1+hp5j72yI5+iZo3OLinchcE52ut9nuKCAxCqDAKiKQYVW9Tr2Pyr mUdKh/Cjxn9UPQ10+fQjzDnyTHbWKNzr0F0DNoggdLqdO+ab3eky8M99ybSs1+yZuFmMi4Aft A7q4Mo6lRsrnZyd/3G3CbXA4ghtn/x6Wu59s6ecbOigpVjg/c5MLEPqvXNN0F1IZQRhfYJW0L gRu2xhQkyuSD4D5rkLU7JTn+oWBiVZqM+qxPTOD47l+C5YKOsXJJ//KjO0yezA8jiCSdSTv1P wMmcFlz7w+AwpUo8HT3N4cJEPJZ2HTXVO9WkEpr3yWwC6tFUz8+ZPbOSHZMgi1NTjYCfhGLo5 WyEshx5vN0x+W2O+Fwh/F7T0JB0oFNRTvXoiWUJWiCwFMHxNhhy7TCqqQZtaxBs+iuIIjdA3r RSyNOceYAd1wmU15a5ioMovrk0lD97igK/Ezf+WCDKkiTA3j9qQL/D80t5STe+u1wE0te3csk RviDybThroGARCx/KEZJxkx0NdXAxrYce9RwL32jUB6fLjiw1Ik80bEODKBuz6KJAvG36B9ra khI9zKIVVrYAxa6+ueyH9SSfJS5Od0QcyQ60NWM6VPD+zCFfCyrlwYKfQLU1lAea1dw3GZOa6 BUlHGHtN99wSxIWJ8BLXrxh6Nb3PxAACZcyH+9a4gcerQNkSkZPQGgQ5Rm3EGvnhZ3yGhYBtF hZt3wmxSSl2eU82Z2PvtU0kViwMgCeG9aMW/vIod1H1teiJCUOZgy6RaBWtlPnwEKJAvaQ+fQ 2nDIj7oGBMKcd6y+jifepxXI5624nLLW0qTivXOH4voJXXubofs1EgaRSX/DVmQ/1jkwl8yPb N8yUMfUdPvgRuo2opOYTnt2wCoVnu7wVYWqiaZr3eFNMB9EEghyNxRkU3eyVJpTY+Kww3LjGK ghIrbHhRd3KtmldAIfZdIjHVfdERsKE8nBseUIdNXOgZFTbwd33XAtrkv5yAkyJ0oJXVlsea+ rQPLgdRPEhZg3EwkxoFPL0DlJ1kTKtrAho2LeLAIFSqxHfUA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:57:40 -0000 On 27.08.2019 16:29, Warren Kumari wrote: > Broken for me -- image: http://www.owl-stretching-time.com/css.png > > Running: > Google Chrome77.0.3865.42 (Official Build) beta (64-bit) > Revision560add2406a0e2970a0c7983e3a3fb36bcdc7d5c-refs/branch-heads/3865@= {#523} > OSmacOS Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G87) > JavaScriptV8 7.7.299.4 > > W > ... I can confirm that Chrome 77 (beta) shows the breakage, while 76 does not. I'll leave it to CSS experts to decide, who's bug this is... Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Aug 27 11:29:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880C7120825; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:29:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdEjVKXArDmT; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E7B01201B7; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA243818D; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF44889; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: [Cellar] non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 18:29:17 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable reposting to tools-discuss for comments. I suspect that the idnits tool may be in error in this case. We are also using xml-v3 for ffv1, since it is full of math which gets rendered to SVG.=20=20 From: Dave Rice Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 10:24:41 -0400 To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Hi cellar, I=E2=80=99m doing an idnits review on the latest ffv1 draft and am confused= about the IETF rules for non-ascii characters in txt rfc drafts. The update at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7997 seems to allow the RFC Editor to use some discretion in using non-ascii characters, but idnits still complai= ns about that. One instance is using a Unicode minus sign to be more semantically clear than an ascii hyphen. Also since the Unicode minus sign uses more bytes than the ascii hyphen, idnits will say the line is too long, even though in appearance the line displays within the correct width.=20 In the RFC for ffv1, we=E2=80=99ve used unicode symbols for floor and ceili= ng functions, such as =E2=8C=8Aa=E2=8C=8B and =E2=8C=88a=E2=8C=89, but rfc2xml= transforms these into their hexadecimal expressions such as ⌊a⌋ and ⌈a⌉. Any advice, should we listen to idnits and avoid non-ascii characters or listen to rfc7997 and use them when it makes the content more clear?=20 Kind Regards, Dave Rice =2D-=20 Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl1ldngACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWBTwf+LgIQN8RQPWI3juT+71Q3zPZV8K2Uni9YNtOR8L7w9AhNcIweT8jQpYzy GLGeTESiyKW1OEDqR+cNOxQ7YgRBBh9mdsOIoYZjcCWyiYYoerzBUMKdmWd8YiU6 WYEkoRfZbgIcXB6vsmnvfj73wvUR13b+BL6Q0sM8VKC8AfpdnBd0Ibx5I4q/A6+A D3FAdJhdD84kYYp/V6s5G3kWVdQMWaoElV8ooF9N/mDgY6UgB4K0htu0reu0q4Iv SroLe9cKHfEtywCblO7/qj+L2E8WoWFZkO9NPQ23to7s/Uc0EeB2u57iO0a48YSV Gsv59mn5swP0uT3aGG2MkkXfOIVbuQ== =DNRR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Aug 27 11:47:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F2C120834; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:46:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dza-_WzInrjx; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F43F120133; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:53021 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1i2gUR-0003db-4l; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:46:48 -0700 To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:46:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <31591.1566930552@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="DhUJlBnMb63gcMsp1cu7wre5KpjKWWRR0" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: [Cellar] non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 18:46:52 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --DhUJlBnMb63gcMsp1cu7wre5KpjKWWRR0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4RUhnwE9QJFCUqVOgGvsr4tmm8G6uGWd9"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson , tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: [Cellar] non-ascii characters References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> In-Reply-To: <31591.1566930552@localhost> --4RUhnwE9QJFCUqVOgGvsr4tmm8G6uGWd9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, Here's my take on this: A number of people has highlighted the desirability of using math symbols= in text. However, this is not currently supported by xml2rfc v3, and wil= l make idnits unhappy. Putting math in SVG is currently the supported approach. Several approaches to permitting math other than by providing SVG artwork= has been raised and discussed, and there may be ways forward for this onc= e the current focus on the v3 format transition is complete, but until we reach completion on the transition effort, I don't think it's going to be= fruitful to push for this. (Personally, I've felt sufficiently strongly about inline and display mat= h support to propose a number of possible approaches to the RFC Editor, but= I don't have time over to do any prototyping of any of the most promising approaches until well after the xml2rfc v3 formatters are seen to be soli= d.) Best regards, Henrik On 2019-08-27 20:29, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > reposting to tools-discuss for comments. > I suspect that the idnits tool may be in error in this case. >=20 > We are also using xml-v3 for ffv1, since it is full of math which gets > rendered to SVG. =20 >=20 > From: Dave Rice > Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 10:24:41 -0400 > To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission > >=20 > Hi cellar, >=20 > I=E2=80=99m doing an idnits review on the latest ffv1 draft and am conf= used about the > IETF rules for non-ascii characters in txt rfc drafts. The update at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7997 > seems to allow the RFC Editor to use some discretion in using non-ascii= > characters, but idnits still com= plains > about that. One instance is using a Unicode minus sign to be more > semantically clear than an ascii hyphen. Also since the Unicode minus s= ign > uses more bytes than the ascii hyphen, idnits will say the line is too = long, > even though in appearance the line displays within the correct width.=20 >=20 > In the RFC for ffv1, we=E2=80=99ve used unicode symbols for floor and c= eiling > functions, such as =E2=8C=8Aa=E2=8C=8B and =E2=8C=88a=E2=8C=89, but rfc= 2xml transforms these into their > hexadecimal expressions such as ⌊a⌋ and ⌈a⌉. An= y > advice, should we listen to idnits and avoid non-ascii characters or li= sten > to rfc7997 and use them when it makes the content more clear?=20 >=20 > Kind Regards, > Dave Rice >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --4RUhnwE9QJFCUqVOgGvsr4tmm8G6uGWd9-- --DhUJlBnMb63gcMsp1cu7wre5KpjKWWRR0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1leo0ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxoQ8BAAx08w2+QnsCrJG79+JLXlfclnN8iqL+IiE2bkAtEHbub56iKlY+r8zsZc lwBWXEMFSX/h/Lj5qH6NmkPJSuXRh443VVJqiDKG8Oh4RhD58zfd5CKY3hH/62xb Okx/orW/C5f/zu+sjFGyNiByGtoaw60TNu1je8a+tirSq5AS+pKfpli6wGm2V6sP DYZgDaLQ/GMfhPO3yG1t0Dttk/q36svGY4ECjzhA698B1Kst3f93jlyW8jlvAla+ xgmuyO3WUIkq1Ly2P5Al9OVobG3bwZFa8OHtWhJME65qWim+gIICclg1kPRIPw5G f8ExT0IRsprmIrhyr2VdndYexjQ5iWyFu7IzROBMr0kko2yfs4yKuloNLlbZo1XY 1cy8DWIy7yWVo4xi07Wmjz3KGBGOge2M2+Iznpwn/d7A978SzoHyySNGIZRGaXXG EqKlyM+BTLpo6SZAxry3toXWGJP1TfSLoqgAxSZfsFaFGHnzARm+xGjNqokWVmax mvO43NruvFk2hveUgErM3KltemCHx8bBRlP3hncz1/CrXGnc0beS+/4b9WTp0i4z alKlw3FB0acv4oo8lYBshWb8yTTyOuwRQ1NzT/y4AzCgG5THGLcke8E8tgms3MeD 877ZNrD2PR9/XUZAg632crvfscZwMSG3znNW3iQY5f+WUyLA638= =x0lS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --DhUJlBnMb63gcMsp1cu7wre5KpjKWWRR0-- From nobody Tue Aug 27 12:35:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFB4120133; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:35:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DTkGBNyoqE-L; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B640120116; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 12:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5DB3818E; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 15:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69D68F1; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 15:35:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Henrik Levkowetz cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 19:35:15 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Michael, > Here's my take on this: > A number of people has highlighted the desirability of using math > symbols in text. However, this is not currently supported by xml2rfc > v3, and will make idnits unhappy. Putting math in SVG is currently t= he > supported approach. Yes, and we are using SVG. But we can't do it with XML yet (now Sept. 16). So we format a txt version for submission to post to the datatracker, and it has some UTF-8 in it. Are you agreeing that idnits is in error? =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl1lhe4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWMjwgAirjY+fpAdurfut67R3EDohXz6VT+un8D1MKzJPbdLa+XicI2BXljAbx7 tR1AWIiOt/YBuMqq7AV2QTL/poJzLJVqUNPLGF1iiIUViyZWPvVcHslD0ztyYHPn h/1oHbyvpzqKmQ8/Votep2dAtUUZnvvProASWq/8n3vOfzjoEySv8YKpXpXF9Cdn 8Kj3hs/XLKLdO0/iywsExVeQ2SPcXIDthGmtlsq4o8hjdnV4Nx76++S9GSRgmcJo usXOD4KvOCdPb/5HXbPZkddAJIjEvxC0GFQDOyoIDqD0TrRPar6dtPoD1ug78rs3 WdktNBkEIaV+qr+ivMXXrJy2+V/DHw== =D3VG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Aug 27 13:10:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899361200FF; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UGA47kUMEuOt; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C8BA1200DE; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:53639 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1i2hnj-0008Cq-8D; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 13:10:47 -0700 To: Michael Richardson References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <73ea49ee-c173-33f5-6fa1-031f1599434a@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:10:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <16112.1566934510@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xAw9eGSGTUvPpX7r6Ko9LI1mfWo3rS6Q2" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org, mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 20:10:50 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --xAw9eGSGTUvPpX7r6Ko9LI1mfWo3rS6Q2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1W5HSGlVd3HILxXX64BcQLsBMa6vmw4j0"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <73ea49ee-c173-33f5-6fa1-031f1599434a@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [Cellar] [Tools-discuss] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> In-Reply-To: <16112.1566934510@localhost> --1W5HSGlVd3HILxXX64BcQLsBMa6vmw4j0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Michael, On 2019-08-27 21:35, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Hi Michael, >=20 > > Here's my take on this: >=20 > > A number of people has highlighted the desirability of using math= > > symbols in text. However, this is not currently supported by xml= 2rfc > > v3, and will make idnits unhappy. Putting math in SVG is current= ly the > > supported approach. >=20 > Yes, and we are using SVG. But we can't do it with XML yet (now Sept. 1= 6). That's when the RFC-Editor intends to start publishing xml, I believe? But you should already be able to post drafts using v3 XML -- any reason = not to do so? (It doesn't affect your primary question, but I'm curious.) > So we format a txt version for submission to post to the datatracker, > and it has some UTF-8 in it. >=20 > Are you agreeing that idnits is in error? For publication purposes, the final arbiter isn't idnits, and the idnits message for non-ascii characters has been downgraded from error to warnin= g, since it's not sufficiently sophisticated to clearly tell what's acceptab= le and what's not, based on RFC 7997. I think it's right to emit a warning,= in order to have both authors, shepherd and ADs consider the case, but can't make any further judgement. Henrik --1W5HSGlVd3HILxXX64BcQLsBMa6vmw4j0-- --xAw9eGSGTUvPpX7r6Ko9LI1mfWo3rS6Q2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1ljj8ACgkQTptXS4+7 FxrTKw/9HQUJOfsx0mrTbRwebcnW4795d0leVmpVQYIpYn6sobEaWgENPrWcxM7Q t09E/adY2YZceospbAMgeVJsKjJDHRQKY3lYOj+GyOgcgyHCUeq2l5dHqzRIHjUW cK8BUJuYrBhweSdKGCVHnwlZmWFJqxAj42/Ic8iHhlMAYNjDDQgONgNsOU9PfS+J wscN0OKHFNCZcwfG6Wx7mAlyZyL33gNHYwCPFXHqaUMLfnJuWrTde20ssTLaA0AM rweymiuMPSDOEVHG2jR+iSbQfkbOOGQz2zsjzw65kUxe+KPq/PDju8bkFjK2/jKI 35UkH3CEmc8RJcN7CmLqWR7aZRxzFk/zURackAm+lfLPH93Qs8Tw4753b2IdvEDy VuqZCFK8z5w2F2EljRQ1kPM/Ix21DG6KFCG+6YoHFkUC3bLkfS27sliJcgCR38pF 2Zi1oqGIqlOSL/Xv91lqv7/HRehMezrUe+FKTKEz2KjuvioM1SXLjdf4FoEiDeb4 oub9xzcpChNW/77kX5ckV+nr0o3Si3g4dCx1eX0nqhXCNTCWm4af9Apeelgxv9sH x+SmzbqbFEvNaeENuhQryRyqsnozbNy0vOPFKV0IReEcAwsG6g5u54EVhnPrDDOL e2Ueff5Zv1XXnaLVmE4asHNnY2W81E6HXs47fvdyrZd6zvYUJXE= =wtUG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xAw9eGSGTUvPpX7r6Ko9LI1mfWo3rS6Q2-- From nobody Tue Aug 27 14:06:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCA812012E; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:06:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bangj.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LOAUAp0UhCmy; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oj.bangj.com (69-77-154-174.static.skybest.com [69.77.154.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32653120113; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.25.146] (69-77-155-155.static.skybest.com [69.77.155.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oj.bangj.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB9DF335F6; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:06:10 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bangj.com; s=201907; t=1566939971; bh=SN2Y9gN+uYs7w4tytRE3qb3cTinrLsJI7l/5PgaXep4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=kLRzMT1DTOhSKMvEPEeWWTeAOzgie0zUBvN7q306YI7rfPYq4s0pwadmhvkOq5qAB jxurOsxrDMDh4Surdmr7r2J3WrOficLHWv73JmkKi50xPsvn0AnzhAiGEidXRO0Zp9 QjcfEDaJxl/1VaC6J17EbzSj3+r4CrYds/fw0WyNa1QZ+66ryEtgY0rCbM9O7NH5g3 B+eWX0jc8lgRhOnFU6QMBz6JF4sndaglKjKTbY/HeIX+0I+ESUf48S+r7vQMg4HMVd DpTELK0TijbXVMarkUkHbcGsjHJkGzoxZ2MoW24IQgFB+VlcaKoqV7LoHxiJBzR6L2 cyp3YF8FekWpg== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3578.1\)) From: Tom Pusateri In-Reply-To: <16112.1566934510@localhost> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 17:06:10 -0400 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3578.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 21:06:14 -0000 > On Aug 27, 2019, at 3:35 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> Hi Michael, >=20 >> Here's my take on this: >=20 >> A number of people has highlighted the desirability of using math >> symbols in text. However, this is not currently supported by xml2rfc >> v3, and will make idnits unhappy. Putting math in SVG is currently = the >> supported approach. >=20 > Yes, and we are using SVG. But we can't do it with XML yet (now Sept. = 16). > So we format a txt version for submission to post to the datatracker, > and it has some UTF-8 in it. RFC 7997 is pretty clear when UTF-8 is permissible and math symbols are = not in the list. I also wanted to use math symbols recently and the TXT version and the = HTML version looked fine but the PDF version did not and so during IESG = review, I was asked to revert the math symbols to their ASCII = equivalent. I think you=E2=80=99ll probably run into the same problem if you try to = use them at this point other than for the particular use cases in RFC = 7997 (names and titles). Tom From nobody Wed Aug 28 14:17:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F4F1200D6 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:17:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34JY3mivonnE for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A7C1200CD for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id r5so746897lfc.3 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:17:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dhtzH99LK18zme1IuuER2gOqaRiOblz7k4YGR21AfPk=; b=flZrBu44xlePJzpjbFRTB/Jk4wV4ScU4+RbKxHKM4cIb+JGKS9ovUnCw8IJ5BjsX92 jrAJ7pPkA38MxPS7cnQOLmSh9CIalOEgEFDxmJ34une9cWpL9RuLrVysO9emIiJNJmyo Vwmt0fDOinljI4uSLPYWS1V/pgN7xjwNA+ytgi/4wLEPGU/lZNW/MXiEyI0NJ3nqQvFj mWFfxBaKLDK1mxKdT/3jci+RUNHxb6AkOV0FrB1rVlYDJSR3HDoSneRnmhylDP9p6fyR cJEp6oDHYqSXCtUJucuPgaef2XGbQJ1dydtXeZU8el4DNId462SciLNQhX8IHSccoFrb 3aCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dhtzH99LK18zme1IuuER2gOqaRiOblz7k4YGR21AfPk=; b=mJjUwQYc4/fAwiXT8JnZ4MI53Xl22LGFt1pzVaQrsyGD52vlpm5rz0cxyAPeZ/DimK 1l0d/mkOqDDo+cBlz5zSHe1pDC6VugMdzvO6cOiZH91e72LQ35TSVBdk6kqKT4FQ0ymX AIXLe39D2Thzm7G3Vp3jg8ciuGae5kqqK1dzAaJ8zcNL2/ozwu27KcP7oWAA/SMn6C5c r94et+lgxmvey1jOzAJMtMXqyhA8wcKyOExkp49+wQm/mhnkefJAkQ8Oh6t5/dMzFX2i OJcvMRCsBvU5CsEe4mKiLkvZausX7kO/70hUXJeIm7cZXorGI4+3KyZbp0CAKe/hbeaT 3U9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWlwMK/W1V3DVgfjVzC9FQJtVWwjzp8MFPmeXNDOsY1OiIV5PnG BWaFZfeyTpaqIRqBBeG6a2t8bV3pABJPw7rxfYhD4g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxOXNUb075oJG32MBlC5N8gwAQysCaqzV2CtdmcaCfDzmsJ4MLKNQZ9kYF/a2jytS+F3fa9SCv3QRwiju5uDXk= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6556:: with SMTP id c22mr3885467lfj.90.1567027022918; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jeffrey Yasskin Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:16:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Warren Kumari , Henrik Levkowetz , Tools Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:17:07 -0000 Thanks for pointing out that this changes across browsers and versions. I've filed https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=998893 so Chrome folks can look into it and undo the change if it's incorrect. Is the line-height:0 really needed in the RFC style? It doesn't seem like you intend 0-height lines here. Jeffrey On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julian Reschke wrote: > > On 27.08.2019 16:29, Warren Kumari wrote: > > Broken for me -- image: http://www.owl-stretching-time.com/css.png > > > > Running: > > Google Chrome77.0.3865.42 (Official Build) beta (64-bit) > > Revision560add2406a0e2970a0c7983e3a3fb36bcdc7d5c-refs/branch-heads/3865@{#523} > > OSmacOS Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G87) > > JavaScriptV8 7.7.299.4 > > > > W > > ... > > I can confirm that Chrome 77 (beta) shows the breakage, while 76 does > not. I'll leave it to CSS experts to decide, who's bug this is... > > Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Aug 28 14:23:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662CE12083B for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:23:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jRFfCnDZFa2s for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3979712023E for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h-202-242.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([158.174.202.242]:50289 helo=tannat.localdomain) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1i35Pg-0006Lh-AH; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:23:33 -0700 To: Jeffrey Yasskin , Julian Reschke References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> Cc: Tools Discussion From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 23:23:23 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wwAuMXkQNVvjh9Mkh9QXkNXV3a2ptLLe2" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 158.174.202.242 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-discuss@ietf.org, julian.reschke@gmx.de, jyasskin=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:23:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --wwAuMXkQNVvjh9Mkh9QXkNXV3a2ptLLe2 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="gIugUmhJ6mOsPiwcMMoxkTFlwaOVb1tXT"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Jeffrey Yasskin , Julian Reschke Cc: Tools Discussion Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: --gIugUmhJ6mOsPiwcMMoxkTFlwaOVb1tXT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeffrey, On 2019-08-28 23:16, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > Thanks for pointing out that this changes across browsers and > versions. I've filed > https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=3D998893 so Chrom= e > folks can look into it and undo the change if it's incorrect. Ack, thanks! > Is the line-height:0 really needed in the RFC style? It doesn't seem > like you intend 0-height lines here. I'm not sure -- it's probably 15 years since I put together the CSS for the htmlized documents, and the only thing I've tweaked since is the horizontal placement (left vs. center) of the document text in the viewpo= rt. I'll go and have a look, but I suspect I had a reason at the time. There= could very well be much better CSS solutions today, though. Best regards, Henrik > Jeffrey >=20 > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julian Reschke = wrote: >> >> On 27.08.2019 16:29, Warren Kumari wrote: >> > Broken for me -- image: http://www.owl-stretching-time.com/css.png >> > >> > Running: >> > Google Chrome77.0.3865.42 (Official Build) beta (64-bit) >> > Revision560add2406a0e2970a0c7983e3a3fb36bcdc7d5c-refs/branch-heads/3= 865@{#523} >> > OSmacOS Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G87) >> > JavaScriptV8 7.7.299.4 >> > >> > W >> > ... >> >> I can confirm that Chrome 77 (beta) shows the breakage, while 76 does >> not. I'll leave it to CSS experts to decide, who's bug this is... >> >> Best regards, Julian >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >=20 > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org >=20 > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org >=20 --gIugUmhJ6mOsPiwcMMoxkTFlwaOVb1tXT-- --wwAuMXkQNVvjh9Mkh9QXkNXV3a2ptLLe2 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEifjc5+rnL1MJBcZSTptXS4+7FxoFAl1m8MsACgkQTptXS4+7 FxqdThAAxJpz72vnD+/2cY7mkNLPqWAtmZxfYPtkR49AzzYOGl1Rn9UWC2rAj0s4 2dX3t5smigWKtVS/OzYFyXEFBni6PTSdpoNTkyiMufxzaz86vYP7HuUaotiDmsvj U4pSS6HejyxuuZoJFNVUr9dQ8wVALjdN4nB0bwmufqYCFQq0YWe+ZGsdM6yIRMlm 79U9QhPu2W6rijwBTiK7WaX9P0lJcs05/tCiDkNntIr9Rbfy9zGpvyRb0YD6AF9o x0Ef+xWruUnPQENpqtiJp6hWC23AGYMsk2PqLetanpiHDm4jlTOmTJJhfb/W974G z4OXA6csu60t3Iyqf+i13DmytMa3zGClxLdIW2z3afka5P1cBtQQPmdyqcbLDhUY 2vGJsjPbRxmpv/HE/f+Iiv6Rf2CgNQMlG2oPAeAnf3JXIbre3Rs5Y7OPXXDBL6gw dP0rJUXmYNo4G6JbDuEd4CtWa/6KVV7IYJRQ7m/iEHLpa6MllhLV9cVZ7vqgkqxH 5rw5GaXEHoVzdDB3/GCcbsqzrekIiKpq/I/QNfphBa7nW6QNKCG74bj2SsYbcG4A s7q6YyuT19qZwtmpgb5P3sPxMsfvPfTQ9fAk6OSQ50ypIqKH7wZw0MtTAKGBPH7j yfWd9aysP7fbgqPAOItFpDdFaj7hANsjyW/pmreCQ28CXQIzKSI= =2+bX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wwAuMXkQNVvjh9Mkh9QXkNXV3a2ptLLe2-- From nobody Wed Aug 28 14:26:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3572120059 for ; 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Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <432c82bc-d63b-43a0-96e8-f36e5d9d1be8@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: From: Jeffrey Yasskin Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:25:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Henrik Levkowetz Cc: Julian Reschke , Tools Discussion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Rfcmarkup-1.129 feedback: CSS bug X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:26:13 -0000 Thanks for looking into it! Jeffrey On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:23 PM Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > > Hi Jeffrey, > > On 2019-08-28 23:16, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: > > Thanks for pointing out that this changes across browsers and > > versions. I've filed > > https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=998893 so Chrome > > folks can look into it and undo the change if it's incorrect. > > Ack, thanks! > > > Is the line-height:0 really needed in the RFC style? It doesn't seem > > like you intend 0-height lines here. > > I'm not sure -- it's probably 15 years since I put together the CSS for > the htmlized documents, and the only thing I've tweaked since is the > horizontal placement (left vs. center) of the document text in the viewport. > > I'll go and have a look, but I suspect I had a reason at the time. There > could very well be much better CSS solutions today, though. > > > Best regards, > > Henrik > > > > Jeffrey > > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julian Reschke wrote: > >> > >> On 27.08.2019 16:29, Warren Kumari wrote: > >> > Broken for me -- image: http://www.owl-stretching-time.com/css.png > >> > > >> > Running: > >> > Google Chrome77.0.3865.42 (Official Build) beta (64-bit) > >> > Revision560add2406a0e2970a0c7983e3a3fb36bcdc7d5c-refs/branch-heads/3865@{#523} > >> > OSmacOS Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G87) > >> > JavaScriptV8 7.7.299.4 > >> > > >> > W > >> > ... > >> > >> I can confirm that Chrome 77 (beta) shows the breakage, while 76 does > >> not. I'll leave it to CSS experts to decide, who's bug this is... > >> > >> Best regards, Julian > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Tools-discuss mailing list > > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > > > Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org > > bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb > > or send email to datatracker-project@ietf.org > > > > Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at > > http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues > > or send email to webmaster@tools.ietf.org > > > From nobody Thu Aug 29 18:12:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B175120CAF for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:12:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.684 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.684 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcastmailservice.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRWG1jVUNQEU for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87979120C7B for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 18:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.110]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 3V1fiFElJu4yf3VSMiinIW; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:12:02 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1567127522; bh=SLK4lxSy6Nv3nKEge7UIHrZ1vncQGeCE1kUbXnPu0oQ=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date: Message-ID; b=DG81AXxiVpBt6EU9k4qO9OJgZFoOcmatb3Vt0PJFTvpq/KaiR2CQeLie0FZLsC2s1 UUiMGleffzcD3tDvU7kk0L873QimsHoZR3J4xJ5iB0fKtSV9Fuc9C3VJBNPBxNJ9CI Fh6D3msvlkwi6lOOIvzCkUGQCWeTuougKJaAfY6A0OsVjIdh5HvlCHnhBFzvDerobh MSrU6+QdCd7xNwCo7R+u1f1gdyRzsPr9rH3U0B0D/3LPjvE0Q+GO0HDsS7LD2daPR3 gQRmmGtsbpu+sTFHnM6+OqlpGZ/1WWp2iIaHWwNMWzN1ZqKPPJ88UNUiXpOhRz56OE LWabcuOAn0H6g== Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 3VSKiQyToaxmK3VSLipe9B; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:12:02 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0;st=legit Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x7U1C010013778; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:12:00 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x7U1BxGJ013775; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:11:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Michael Richardson Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <31591.1566930552@localhost> (mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:11:58 -0400 Message-ID: <87lfvbwj6p.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: [Cellar] non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:12:11 -0000 Michael Richardson writes: > [...] One instance is using a Unicode minus sign to be more > semantically clear than an ascii hyphen. [...] Given that using non-ASCII characters is still considered doubtful, and given that using hyphen to mean "minus" is a long-established tradition, I would say to use hyphen. The place where I'd expect the Editor to show flexiblity is where ASCII makes it difficult to express the intended meaning. Do you have such a situation? Dale From nobody Thu Aug 29 21:20:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614AF120C72; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JmcoRPSzgNln; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFCE5120918; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p548DCCB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46KR9M056pzyg9; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:20:38 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:20:38 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 588831636.9663661-93b1197d63ce95ced93ac18c8f328286 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> To: Tom Pusateri X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:20:43 -0000 On Aug 27, 2019, at 23:06, Tom Pusateri = wrote: >=20 > RFC 7997 is pretty clear when UTF-8 is permissible and math symbols = are not in the list. I believe, with a 2019 perspective on the world, this is no longer the = right decision. We are incurring the costs of supporting Unicode but not reaping its = benefits. Providing HTML as a main viewing format and not even being able to solve = the hyphen-dash-minus problem leads to weird-looking documents. How is requiring SVG display support for understanding a document better = than simply requiring Unicode support? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Aug 29 21:26:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29EB120C82; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LW1xSn52mFMI; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D48E120C80; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1567139146; bh=ePC1tQxJLy0np2H030Q8GXx3cX1Z4zyESmsilzaVIlM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IiviP+AGJnaIfha32axMCy4Ux2sKzb3jHCAyQomRLQd+OLRMtdXpPz0lhjr3LHNUK riHg4FW9H99GVJzAAJ0+fSyc+gMEwCuwQGmAjbRFs2m+aE2Jf2BYd6hWQ2oVF1mP4b z6rtV0Vb0EzI7G/3NDoRYLRBl16YROkvVPkqDWns= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.150.109]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LrevR-1iBQjH2Mhx-013Q37; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:25:46 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann , Tom Pusateri Cc: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 06:25:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:sKTaCFzCCrWgPZk37VIIEko3BLTZsWq6qpQCVLxFEesTQk8p0mq dxkP0wOT9rW+8krglzs76Yr2rYOlZm1Jn8JIJaYzeg+npckSmSuk9K0bZKc8qontKutnL98 OgfbWvcNToZZ/5sBn7NI8Qs6UvJpPv61HfPRJownfr3VKVfUHFkbiL7ny+Gt2/T5DTf0XFY UkanKkiTv2XlUsucnxiGw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8q5UJaya82Q=:n/z6va1PzH6Z0Bwt/3JGLD b/i49DdLviRQJPiX4uixy1fOmxrbWtZrn1tZxoK3zu+8E1nGFrRgOGWJkkWpyK0ngyLt2oF8M JVPdTxXxXuitHjACF09dJOgquJBGhIa6B6XWxtioPKv3w6aGUfFg5F/IWKioNQPE/wa40z3X1 QgrtkGtTqg0iLSEKwdcwNHy6iy2Z1Faag3VdW+HV79egjl3dh3S7bKmwgd7+9m4L4/PZtfwUc 8U//qgZnZx+yarfzuDtBMUHYsk7PWyxOC93JhxfJyuS7JPl+SeLDrlmBWzaULgPpLe2+cgDXd HIMuXhnvPkVKg9MOUcjwNDNVDrdHPamqIPJ3twKuwc2VFQgI+NLjmIpMOXQdgO3/PfqPaNP9X iAYFTV7CBm9H/aQJhT6aV4ccb5h7mhF2kioBzn9FWRMmbmRxWUuNsl7XEdbDnmCsIiN7PQGKA bnxpkBmjDuXy5qf2ctZ8NmjTxsHncODIsyi0c+Kfsvm7HUyeSdQ1Wh3Q8Nknx//zVd71kIwYT W2FLnu3KmYOm30omLWsyL/g81rZ7ECHP+eillbeSIZcxetjNGbPBPVTaXmzMCnJR2RfWhywZ5 rlcOTovoq0vw9vy6sGKvn9DVT/JK1UnyETmlzuVgg41vw4xdivcmYzLi8hS5bqYQSqfodh32R sM0aqnL5LjV8aw10vAP53aOZDSoGaUKIB4DVBZ7tvA7JYD9iBaIkT+7mDXMsRiteVvViky/+j J7yxfOtx9LbFAIx1fc2Nzp+hJQVlXbUIeitnnt5MzP2f8agoXKOKH2XiDf2IxZpuKduDyHTWC dzIATgTv+6hpJwL8+vqn3e+cS4hNv5aftmtv1IpOgxBXeL5tQuZkD/U5M3CRIe7Wbj+38YaO1 RiCFHeKIBMjYEHk83BSe5UbrTK2AK2RdQ8tJL3KAI20HU86ziMz9+36teTMv358JbthYuoUcW kxvoEBVYdpF8cDTCsiV5Even9QxWOWQKiimka8lpvtiUIo+bFmPrpkfZsIPJoeFFxhdo8B5cI CpYNu7VP8aaw81lDMm0B+vhlWdw3j63pfxFqmWcsW07jVLrn/q8Imv2IjvkBHHhxbVwmExQYG iQLGhrUWiNvz9zgMmNoIWdXGOjQFwUuzPjWBpOxQN4T93Z6Weq0eKFJz2GhS1kAixANqDJ0+b +eeun/G83nvfsNp9yGCGe+uouxW5xPhL++FL4NETiOMbybtQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 04:26:28 -0000 On 30.08.2019 06:20, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Aug 27, 2019, at 23:06, Tom Pusateri wrote: >> >> RFC 7997 is pretty clear when UTF-8 is permissible and math symbols are= not in the list. > > I believe, with a 2019 perspective on the world, this is no longer the r= ight decision. Did the perspective change significantly within the last 4 years?? > We are incurring the costs of supporting Unicode but not reaping its ben= efits. > Providing HTML as a main viewing format and not even being able to solve= the hyphen-dash-minus problem leads to weird-looking documents. > How is requiring SVG display support for understanding a document better= than simply requiring Unicode support? I do prefer proper hyphens, but I also note that the proper choice can lead to bikeshedding. My recollection is that we started with the use cases that seemed most important back then. I'll also note that Unicode math characters won't be sufficient in all cases, so MathML definitively is something to consider as well. Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Aug 29 22:16:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EC8120C74; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 22:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7cyhdmpHH6Dy; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16B251200E3; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 22:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p548DCCB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46KSPk3PYQzyXX; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 07:16:26 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 07:16:26 +0200 Cc: Tom Pusateri , Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 588834984.486306-b40a1ec80b57b06e89369b0c57b34ef5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 05:16:30 -0000 On Aug 30, 2019, at 06:25, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 > On 30.08.2019 06:20, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 23:06, Tom Pusateri = wrote: >>>=20 >>> RFC 7997 is pretty clear when UTF-8 is permissible and math symbols = are not in the list. >>=20 >> I believe, with a 2019 perspective on the world, this is no longer = the right decision. >=20 > Did the perspective change significantly within the last 4 years?? I think so. Of course, tipping points are always a perception issue, = but I think it would not be hard to obtain consensus today that we are = past the UTF-8 tipping point. Of course, there will be people who = remember that they argued otherwise a decade ago and will try to = maintain that position, but outside of vintage computer museums, the = reality is pretty well-defined now. >> We are incurring the costs of supporting Unicode but not reaping its = benefits. >> Providing HTML as a main viewing format and not even being able to = solve the hyphen-dash-minus problem leads to weird-looking documents. >> How is requiring SVG display support for understanding a document = better than simply requiring Unicode support? >=20 > I do prefer proper hyphens, but I also note that the proper choice can > lead to bikeshedding. I=E2=80=99m not aware of an opportunity for that (well, maybe except for = the choice between en-dashes and em-dashes for the punctuation mark in = the form of a horizontal line used to indicate a pause, to delimit an = inserted sentence or phrase, or to indicate a deliberately omitted = word). But given that this is the IETF, I=E2=80=99m sure we=E2=80=99ll = find one :-) More seriously, this is one place where copy-editing can simply solve = the problem. > My recollection is that we started with the use cases that seemed most > important back then. I'll also note that Unicode math characters won't > be sufficient in all cases, so MathML definitively is something to > consider as well. Having math characters available is not a valid replacement for = something like MathML. Being able to throw in some casual in-line math (that an authoring tool = would convert to the right characters) is useful, though. As in =E2=8C=88= a=E2=8C=89 and friends=E2=80=A6 (Nobody would argue that I can=E2=80=99t = use a*b in a spec to talk about the product of a and b, so why not a=E2=88= =89B or =E2=88=80x.x=C2=B2=E2=89=A50.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Aug 30 00:40:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FC512006A; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:39:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x_xSt_vxXhg8; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F15DE120806; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:39:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1567150764; bh=Lv1Cn2Y142b+azlJy2VPlTg+63TqSpJiHVpJeAAkO1M=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=GQxPcBUZaAE94Or3/X08xcWPRlLvz9RPPdV1Btbhu0lK4XWMmtctVOv17chtS35V8 9vdkqUU3zAirdkun7iTglJoldJYwZa98Si9xIrDi4/P+cR0FS3FrFT/5khF8d4HvkE qDrowC1VDoGQtpyy5+nEfIwn6qjToz2gksBhUY78= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.150.109]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MbaS9-1hnJhm3CoH-00J5vu; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:39:23 +0200 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Michael Richardson , Tom Pusateri , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:39:18 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:12aLs5TFUCRjyx2+z8Ysp8E1P8dvQG91gYgm3aQat5qO+tXVtA7 gMZ0vp+RY2w/CS58eHfHUJhhxUx+k7G5fCTaYyfIVZ64WTY0zHhJ4cfcBwhlBc0kZwp/h0R SIHIAFv6ghBo3JcwC5egckeGieRNnnFOwyQ3xIQfFibBx2BDahqnqCBwSWDuMVU512nwuVo xa6DObFlr5oCPlzBrLrNA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zaFyTwdOt/Y=:SnwuPSd061yN2ehUGRCjmz PcFDCLd+UmkBlC/mex1ro8Fto5T+s+2hK9ahxcqdQMaftLxJ4/XuFpMJ/1Lik5+ledjHzHJDN O0jmK3MDjqI0J+Q1TKCcdKTqI5/m180EUmTn9H0Um8hrY4yREZK8G2uKN22QU7dJ+zzCfH3mA WpAd4C4cBeG7WAmdfk92TQNuLHnbwelZkQQjTM7gMBhKWHkdwBUT5b5IXpH7SHEl6Q/tTCCCD F1gYZwaF0E4c+CgwHdOb8PfKTxwhd9LCDn5/a90LZAy5T7l3t0oxOPhEmi+xTG93Q88j/69wf TTDJ5KRTC4vIumitTnx4VdOTkbI5ezXLlAx+U6wK0NZmmUucgAxSvr9VBK0Qrab62LyPsnaRj qedfE7IvtFxaXqh6JF7QiJHYS3s3pRiTVLWs/I5H9+9qmLoixFU2Zia91/WwQ9EgwfkO/VHIB anHvIlYd53wwdzZrCOKkxxSwU1pap4cHaosnv1NLPnM+Q/Wj25F2DK/JgBnzFGQxng1DSOPKi hGmOl8I//Red938cNogPDSjEm1OhmtjYQVn0yIE3lwHXrpzmYZfOPA/lcBK6FFKzoDaKjx5Vp N6rQcTOShzSKSkeEolFNNnstQwt6v6VB9r28/BCNWPVs6jtWDC0EhJp4xYGrIxELaQesSTcL4 3N5i8W3HSoyZ+9W4TFUU3pFc4OCNeY9bJaBtAMu/FgodSa/rh5q+6VyFAFTH0bZe8CUtDPHry /VJ4ma6bz8JvP1y6aA++Jh1cteeAyEx1CdpDr5atcx+C97saCSioOaDib124IPRLjvGm7iGFy NaHf7mliLupUK0OYq/e8a4hq5d+l3de+k56CLWqmU0N9uZNftBqSL669vRb859XIEh3+fDmJo BlYSZ/+gAvbXLZKtdUsuPHSJgSFK6jkj4nTSbBxmIB1sPfH4mGVjr5z7HCk/iVF4qKmreHlIM jsNNlzH+omV244+nfSVSslf9wtr9paA3iB9ilBW4P3UVhrukO1Eqhw8hisksX6+srtUcgrG3A YD4+vsqQRCQOUqSMrzdUVF2EereCmOf+m3ugINgjZXcCyAm6JzTbwACE4vSJn/MOTwb43Vtlm NFYkT+5MrAlFJO0aM4fpHbuw9j2QBhFJJhTNVvEruk+F60BrTWEWez+T3sH0ZcFob4fl2h4Xj ezZTJoYjKFfeG2TdK7CG85/wZEXupkjKuVT7A+OJkJuWEPnw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 07:39:58 -0000 On 30.08.2019 07:16, Carsten Bormann wrote: > ... > I=E2=80=99m not aware of an opportunity for that (well, maybe except for= the choice between en-dashes and em-dashes for the punctuation mark in th= e form of a horizontal line used to indicate a pause, to delimit an insert= ed sentence or phrase, or to indicate a deliberately omitted word). But= given that this is the IETF, I=E2=80=99m sure we=E2=80=99ll find one :-) AFAIR, there are also different opinions about whether there should be whitespace around it. > More seriously, this is one place where copy-editing can simply solve th= e problem. That is true. >> My recollection is that we started with the use cases that seemed most >> important back then. I'll also note that Unicode math characters won't >> be sufficient in all cases, so MathML definitively is something to >> consider as well. > > Having math characters available is not a valid replacement for somethin= g like MathML. > Being able to throw in some casual in-line math (that an authoring tool = would convert to the right characters) is useful, though. As in =E2=8C=88= a=E2=8C=89 and friends=E2=80=A6 (Nobody would argue that I can=E2=80=99t = use a*b in a spec to talk about the product of a and b, so why not a=E2=88= =89B or =E2=88=80x.x=C2=B2=E2=89=A50.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten Ack. Just explaining how we got there. Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Aug 30 01:00:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12D6120113; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jpq7WfqmzGSq; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA0712001A; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p548DCCB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.185]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46KX2d3Gg8zywt; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:00:09 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:00:09 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , Tom Pusateri , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 588844807.490808-5087a3644267b470c833424d0152cb06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6FF73116-59F3-453E-B001-171AF369A7E9@tzi.org> References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 08:00:14 -0000 On Aug 30, 2019, at 09:39, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not aware of an opportunity for that (well, maybe except = for the choice between en-dashes and em-dashes for the punctuation mark = in the form of a horizontal line used to indicate a pause, to delimit an = inserted sentence or phrase, or to indicate a deliberately omitted = word). But given that this is the IETF, I=E2=80=99m sure we=E2=80=99ll = find one :-) >=20 > AFAIR, there are also different opinions about whether there should be > whitespace around it. Right. Traditional German: em-dash with whitespace =E2=80=9CModern=E2=80=9D German: en-dash with whitespace Traditional US English: em-dash without whitespace, or sometimes with = (AP style, i.e., news) Traditional UK English: it=E2=80=99s complicated Today=E2=80=99s English: hodgepodge Laypeople: essentially, use dashes only where Microsoft Word turns a = hyphen into a dash automatically, and that involves typing spaces, or so (And, of course, there are range and versus dashes as well, which are = always en-dashes, but might incomprehensibly have whitespace in = English.) I don=E2=80=99t have my CMOS with me, or I would cite chapter and verse. But the important observation is that this is a well-known editorial = style issue to which a copy-editor should have an answer. More generally speaking, the fact that Unicode has more characters does = not mean we need to spend a lot of time deciding which character to use. = I think we are also old enough to no longer fall into Unicode traps = (e.g., =CE=A9 vs. =E2=84=A6). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Aug 30 09:29:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9E9912095D for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:29:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gwExyvKpVeqt for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD34F120B42 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0574C380BE for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47628B1C for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:29:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:29:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Julian Reschke wrote: >> On Aug 27, 2019, at 23:06, Tom Pusateri wrote: >>> >>> RFC 7997 is pretty clear when UTF-8 is permissible and math symbols are not in the list. >> >> I believe, with a 2019 perspective on the world, this is no longer the right decision. > Did the perspective change significantly within the last 4 years?? While it was published Dec. 2016, which is three years ago, DT says it was started Feb. 2014, do that's 5.5 years ago, based upon discussion that was probably older. I'm one of the people who has been difficult to move to UTF-8. (I still run xterm and vtwm, not gnome-terminal and sawfish/metacity) But, I'm UTF-8 capable, even if I can't always figure out how to type the accents in Malisa's Montenegrin name. I usually have to copy&paste them :-) -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl1pTt0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVY1Af/TX8RxS+PH2sOQDv0N80zp3/OFiPqcqspvS/1YnyZB8u9CooOyf+Fzjew 3ZlQLM7O+ti2kJuBZGBYlaLMzALBPjBqW8et+01GyH9D2w+ArKxhIHsuzYWEwmif ByILwKDVz5XW/IZCEXEKQS4XuuV0fErY3aBG/mKSAyLo8+x3x87VQFsP2YWmZb7u K5SYoyon4n2rw6MwhHVOTXMl7GsDUdAqzWF0JQFG7VCko0mxoCxHMGeofVomVcCb A/sF3bOiMqlKtBe2R12HX1QESBXK/Crxc5YSN36ZZQrQlJ5pWZdg7OFSREyneWwS 5Dsw7gTrSZJ8lIhjyzb3CuKEWmPoSQ== =9gCG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Aug 30 09:33:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90C6212097F; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:33:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmFsLWit5R-j; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCCFE120B43; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44B53808A; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:32:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22388B1C; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:33:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss In-Reply-To: <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:33:49 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain If we accept the rules of RFC7997 (nice palindrone) suggests UTF-8 for proper names only, is it acceptable to use other symbols in the XML for use when translating to to HTML? And if so, is there a way to tell xml2rfc (v3) what to put when producing the ASCII^Wtxt copy? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl1pT+gACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWqTgf/SH67O+V3qHh2Q3vrAqsG82mKR0t1uaskn42G8XNTFr3qg5Qz3vAVdQXj HkTh7A90Bg3cRLYL/joTxrN6+y8JTKbIlTbcNKE6TJ0+kGgsSXlsd8+PZywp8dtg 3IPeHjSCCFZohAwgbHvLPPbqTRvtbETkR+/97LjEkO0W+YEzkkL0P5Et7k6wiOd4 Y0XXstTvOkGs+797pHLJttEyusfaE7wvAdhPG1Tzo7wbD611PsiDTraKer4mRMaQ MGGYGNEa9tlXQfyhuQYu63qLO+SMiDmHZRV+1pxZEoBPDmM4+SkaOT/B0mCKaXd1 aEnHkFvzIGDcb49Z/pEkdMqB4cD92Q== =hyQw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Aug 30 09:44:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D7E312093E; Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:44:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:44:29 +0200 To: Michael Richardson , cellar@ietf.org, tools-discuss References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> <6317.1567182825@localhost> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:44:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6317.1567182825@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:P/qgSX7uwMd1ym8rTx503nJz/OdTMs8+U811GbeUiItdLJ7snnb ujtI77kb+xjSusqwETHShLAYJko22mGK62WJtfLLQFfqbJBgYdEu7WlPPuaU0rRzW8joue/ J2MKfZ9nDOToXETQe7/BDEGixbk5XVleZHuhFjLBn2eoGXzK8FomhdFg9q6rVTY2FIuRRQB vneQFTfXpZvMPV/qgDVmw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zT6fqbbC4Z4=:81XLDZ2KZCX6emIKMYghqP 6Mig7J/uLR2rWKHWR5eChfWivUGkku/Vb8oFKc4ej/BqHTfNhk6d1YikGpvjzBiA5HY/UCr4U f/GES0dKui0rq7fUh53CBcH8gRXGlj0cGbL2JWwX3dAXXdrpNCXxfz4EXsogzvfUPtJTCL900 OT7gx9cBI/LiwDyq4aeAOeHOAdOnLtPBLVrkO/9CIgxo83zzj4EyzPeOemy/82KwaNeoPQ5nY Ikx0YCymhIUEu47CYhFTyPQ7DUBXF4GSI1lQeWQWuC3hpvxoQEDbNT1DphRF+sMw19+MZKK/w twkWaarymMJtprCVx7r9CTO+wXywUI3VPcb7umCiA3yrDFwQbiE9fs5SsZJc7RZF0Q8qxBdnD SWiSWhilNiUs8cpiu69yFLmVLQd02rFRhBAV1Qk9wqgX037r+F6Kj1fNkmLz9vdhBoRYATGmB irpPQJStLGEL9GaSJsXVvdB3M+gqwgJHtLwkPwu/rjXl6BcZqoJzEpNPoYP6qwSo/DrCUIWsd 8gJaTIRpCYUSH0dpMMZyKP7umGpryWVqpvpvBUDUDuEPFfJheYyw9XzssWDmItjM6tmCSXXTK po+oduxIXvitdW6igy0ZtdCT0VaAZWBQdNu6WA44Ew+TkDXziUSMSiRGynWXZFqJjayySE/tp 7XQmE2SGZRwD2Ot09rpw/wQD+GYmAkoWYXyxasSmoXgts6kTQyna9FBKJBxrmRSBWM2GNABPf 50itaULzBJnuP7gO0JdfhZpH6a90Qn4QJP1oB31TNvjAqEAnZfvZq8twi+0W2Pb6xXCTFD6vH podb+sciGmc5HTe7LDS7BNeIy1me6KkVbSRf0n2WTGhc9R9ErcJ9lLRehMvfwwHVXu/b+Iwoy /1FGs0xJ+/aQqen126uUvdCraFKHL5O9mmWfCQLsQlu6t3UtSCyqC/uTYuCq8DcWA5yxdXHLs 0A7la8FKKZS2+i2HL5xPwDpL3WGwr5mbFSPn6yBG/ZnjtXQJ6fDzF4JLP/T5JJxy/Z/tJ3YTT bPq5nnJeNd3lyaCrO6RwGXbq4cQZmmIjiwId9NuMCUESnCezNG9Fg5nUNtxjK6m6t29rA7vTV BclAYxanI6zJQMPjOO1F+ka7F/r9+oNFc3dFHIu8rpn4r694vgEIY6kZjvI4ZY4D6W7MP4xJI Y2hie93pI1j5oouGa/Kn6mZNzVnf+Vu2VNAiIMkvPVMAD5qQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:44:41 -0000 On 30.08.2019 18:33, Michael Richardson wrote: > > If we accept the rules of RFC7997 (nice palindrone) suggests UTF-8 for p= roper > names only, is it acceptable to use other symbols in the XML for use wh= en > translating to to HTML? I don't quite understand. Example maybe? > And if so, is there a way to tell xml2rfc (v3) what to put when producin= g the ASCII^Wtxt > copy? You mean plain text? That can contain non-ASCII just fine... Best regards, Julian From nobody Sat Aug 31 16:02:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B916512013A; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:02:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KXSNi6RH0bAK; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CDD61200FB; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpe-104-162-94-162.nyc.res.rr.com ([104.162.94.162]:39645 helo=[10.0.1.3]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1i4CNm-002sAI-RY; Sat, 31 Aug 2019 19:02:15 -0400 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: <1671C432-1E43-41C4-99FC-B927887BBE12@dericed.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7E2F97F0-FC05-4443-9685-862EB0B80BB8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 19:02:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6FF73116-59F3-453E-B001-171AF369A7E9@tzi.org> Cc: Julian Reschke , Michael Richardson , Tom Pusateri , cellar@ietf.org, Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss To: Carsten Bormann References: <31591.1566930552@localhost> <16112.1566934510@localhost> <5E85BF29-021D-4235-BD68-893F5729D5E6@bangj.com> <4fa5f1ff-71f8-5303-e285-0e1f10e458c2@gmx.de> <76BBD514-2BB6-4291-B80F-4C72B17E43B4@tzi.org> <0ce8e099-0344-dacc-06b2-898fb63c75e5@gmx.de> <6FF73116-59F3-453E-B001-171AF369A7E9@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] [Cellar] non-ascii characters (fwd) Dave Rice: non-ascii characters X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 23:02:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7E2F97F0-FC05-4443-9685-862EB0B80BB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, > On Aug 30, 2019, at 4:00 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Aug 30, 2019, at 09:39, Julian Reschke = wrote: >>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99m not aware of an opportunity for that (well, maybe except = for the choice between en-dashes and em-dashes for the punctuation mark = in the form of a horizontal line used to indicate a pause, to delimit an = inserted sentence or phrase, or to indicate a deliberately omitted = word). But given that this is the IETF, I=E2=80=99m sure we=E2=80=99ll = find one :-) >>=20 >> AFAIR, there are also different opinions about whether there should = be >> whitespace around it. >=20 > Right. >=20 > Traditional German: em-dash with whitespace > =E2=80=9CModern=E2=80=9D German: en-dash with whitespace > Traditional US English: em-dash without whitespace, or sometimes with = (AP style, i.e., news) > Traditional UK English: it=E2=80=99s complicated > Today=E2=80=99s English: hodgepodge > Laypeople: essentially, use dashes only where Microsoft Word turns a = hyphen into a dash automatically, and that involves typing spaces, or so >=20 > (And, of course, there are range and versus dashes as well, which are = always en-dashes, but might incomprehensibly have whitespace in = English.) >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t have my CMOS with me, or I would cite chapter and = verse. > But the important observation is that this is a well-known editorial = style issue to which a copy-editor should have an answer. >=20 > More generally speaking, the fact that Unicode has more characters = does not mean we need to spend a lot of time deciding which character to = use. I think we are also old enough to no longer fall into Unicode = traps (e.g., =CE=A9 vs. =E2=84=A6). Thanks very much for this discussion, based on this and also running = idnits, I=E2=80=99ve created this pull request for the FFV1 draft, = https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/pull/158/files = . Related to this = discussion the pull request changes the unicode minus sign to an ascii = hyphen and uses a "ceil(a)" and "floor(a)" function rather than using = "=E2=8C=88a=E2=8C=89" and "=E2=8C=8Aa=E2=8C=8B=E2=80=9D. After this PR, = it passes idnits with no errors, warnings, or comments. Thanks much, Dave Rice --Apple-Mail=_7E2F97F0-FC05-4443-9685-862EB0B80BB8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = all,

On Aug 30, 2019, at 4:00 AM, Carsten Bormann = <cabo@tzi.org> = wrote:

On Aug 30, 2019, at 09:39, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

I=E2=80=99m not aware of an opportunity for that (well, maybe = except for the choice between en-dashes and em-dashes for the = punctuation mark in the form of a horizontal line used to indicate a = pause, to delimit an inserted sentence or phrase, or to indicate a = deliberately omitted word).    But given that this is the = IETF, I=E2=80=99m sure we=E2=80=99ll find one :-)

AFAIR, there are also different = opinions about whether there should be
whitespace around = it.

Right.

Traditional German: em-dash with whitespace
=E2=80=9CModern=E2=80=9D German: en-dash with whitespace
Traditional US English: em-dash without whitespace, or = sometimes with (AP style, i.e., news)
Traditional UK = English: it=E2=80=99s complicated
Today=E2=80=99s English: = hodgepodge
Laypeople: essentially, use dashes only where = Microsoft Word turns a hyphen into a dash automatically, and that = involves typing spaces, or so

(And, of = course, there are range and versus dashes as well, which are always = en-dashes, but might incomprehensibly have whitespace in English.)

I don=E2=80=99t have my CMOS with me, or I = would cite chapter and verse.
But the important = observation is that this is a well-known editorial style issue to which = a copy-editor should have an answer.

More = generally speaking, the fact that Unicode has more characters does not = mean we need to spend a lot of time deciding which character to use. =  I think we are also old enough to no longer fall into Unicode = traps (e.g., =CE=A9 vs. =E2=84=A6).

Thanks very much for this discussion, based on this and also = running idnits, I=E2=80=99ve created this pull request for the FFV1 = draft, https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/pull/158/files. Related to = this discussion the pull request changes the unicode minus sign to an = ascii hyphen and uses a "ceil(a)" and "floor(a)" function rather than = using "=E2=8C=88a=E2=8C=89" and "=E2=8C=8Aa=E2=8C=8B=E2=80=9D. After = this PR, it passes idnits with no errors, warnings, or = comments.

Thanks= much,
Dave Rice

= --Apple-Mail=_7E2F97F0-FC05-4443-9685-862EB0B80BB8--