IETF
6lo@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, August 1, 2013< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[15:03:12] <Michael Richardson> I am remote.
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[15:03:23] <Michael Richardson> does it say "Michael Richardson" for you, or mcharlesr@gmail.com?
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[15:03:54] <caozhen> any remote participants here?
[15:04:01] <Michael Richardson> I am remote.
[15:04:04] <kerlyn> mcharlesr
[15:04:14] <Michael Richardson> and now?
[15:04:21] <caozhen> agenda
[15:04:35] <kerlyn> same.  now we know what the "c" is for
[15:04:53] <Michael Richardson> weird, I did /nick Michael Richardson, and my client says that is what my Nick is.
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[15:05:32] <caozhen> page 5
[15:07:16] <Michael Richardson> cabo, I'd like you to relate at some point, the question about ND (of any flavour) vs RPL for neighbour discovery and how Contiki might have done it wrong, or maybe not.
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[15:10:25] <kerlyn> mcr: can RPL also distribute IPHC context?  If not, then I think ND wins
[15:11:12] <thomas.heide.clausen> Can't hear presenter
[15:11:25] <thomas.heide.clausen> Can someone tell Carsten to yell, please?
[15:11:27] <kerlyn> is there a scribe to tell us what slide we're on, or that we can't hear carsten?
[15:12:04] <Floris> yes
[15:12:09] <kerlyn> PLEASE ASK CARSTEN TO SPEAK INTO THE MIC
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[15:12:15] <maazrehan_gmail.com> Who is scribing plz?
[15:12:22] <caozhen> i am
[15:12:37] <Floris> better?
[15:12:40] <kerlyn> can you relay the request to carsten, like now?
[15:12:42] <caozhen> sorry i lost connection for 5 minutes before
[15:12:51] <Floris> it was muted
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[15:13:01] <Michael-Richardson> okay, now he is too close!!!!
[15:13:02] <kerlyn> OK!
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[15:13:10] <Michael-Richardson> okay, better.
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[15:13:39] <Floris> so we're on the adaptation layers slide atm
[15:13:42] <kerlyn> what slide are we on plz?
[15:13:44] <Floris> no number though
[15:13:48] <kerlyn> kk
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[15:14:29] <caozhen> sorry i kept losing my connection
[15:15:10] <maazrehan_gmail.com> I can do it, if u loose the connection.. :)
[15:15:35] <caozhen> thx
[15:17:40] <caozhen> page 12
[15:17:47] <caozhen> on mib now
[15:18:18] <caozhen> page 13
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[15:20:03] <caozhen> page 14
[15:22:38] <caozhen> Eric mentions a similar draft
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[15:23:14] <caozhen> page 15
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[15:24:43] <caozhen> page 16 on APFI draft
[15:25:23] <caozhen> page 17 on 6lowpan-roadmap
[15:26:12] <caozhen> Carsten finishes
[15:27:05] <caozhen> Samita from Ericsson on the mic
[15:28:04] <Michael-Richardson> We can not have a generic architecture, because we have way too many combinatorics of how it is going to be used.  We are going to have a large number of specific deployments.
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[15:28:23] <caozhen> do you need me to go to the mic
[15:28:31] <Michael-Richardson> "generic architecture" is called "ethernet".. if you can emulate ethernet, you do.
[15:28:46] <caozhen> please specify in your comments if you needs your comments to mic, thx
[15:28:59] <Michael-Richardson> I will mic: if I think it helps the room.
[15:29:10] <Michael-Richardson> (recalling that I'm likely 15s behind)
[15:29:47] <caozhen> i will relay to mic
[15:30:44] <Michael-Richardson> huh?
[15:31:11] <kerlyn> right, isn't that the function of routing?
[15:31:32] <Michael-Richardson> yeah, we just need routing, plus an dnssdext solution.
[15:31:40] <caozhen> i am waiting in the line
[15:31:59] <Michael-Richardson> caozhen, I don't think my architecture comment is worth repeating.
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[15:33:15] <caozhen> okay... i took it anyway...
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[15:34:48] <kerlyn> mcr, I think we need a "blessed" way of distributing IPHC context as well.  So far Erik is reluctant to include this in his low-power ND draft.
[15:35:50] <cabo> kerlyn: The blessed way is 6CO, right?  Why does that have to be repeated in the efficient-ND spec?
[15:36:54] <cabo> (My assumption is that that will not /replace/ RFC 6775)
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[15:39:16] <kerlyn> zach is speaking to that now - we just need to say it's OK to steal "modules" from 6LoWPAN-ND
[15:40:21] <Michael-Richardson> yes, I agree about distributing IPHC.
[15:41:07] <Michael-Richardson> I also suspect that we need a way to represent, at the draft level, a way to pre-populate IPHC :-)
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[15:42:01] <cabo> kerlyn: the ND options defined in 6775 are pretty much *modules*.  Steal them at liberty, please.
[15:42:07] <kerlyn> mcr, DHCPv6 of course ;-)
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[15:42:51] <Michael-Richardson> too simple.
[15:43:21] <kerlyn> cabo, right - my only point is that not all of 6LoWPAN-ND is relevant to all 6loX's; 6lobac for example is not a multi-link subnet.
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[15:44:11] <kerlyn> so we just need to establish a precedent of borrowing liberally from it.
[15:44:25] <cabo> kerlyn: Yep, pick and choose.  See BTLE...
[15:44:35] <kerlyn> kk
[15:47:28] <Michael-Richardson> lwig defines constraints...
[15:47:44] <kerlyn> cabo, we can steal the def'ns from lwig right?
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[15:48:39] <Michael Richardson> okay, so sleepy ethernet/wifi tablets are not in scope to constrain the solutions, but I think that if people want to take 6lo results and apply them elsewhere, they should write a new non-6lo draft.
[15:49:15] <Dave Thaler> I haven't read the draft referred to... is a carrier pigeon a constrained node? :)
[15:49:27] <cabo> Michael-Richardson: If you remember DNA — that would be out of scope of 6Lo
[15:50:17] <Michael Richardson> what? i  missed what he said.
[15:50:44] <Michael Richardson> carrier pigeon is a transport, akin to dark fiber.
[15:51:00] <Dave Thaler> I assume the doc is http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lwig-terminology-05
[15:51:08] <Floris> uhu
[15:51:08] <Michael Richardson> yeah, DNA is not of scope.
[15:51:16] <Michael Richardson> er, DNA is out of scope.
[15:51:18] <Dave Thaler> Constrained Node: A node where some of the characteristics that are otherwise pretty much taken for granted for Internet nodes in 2013 are not attainable, often due to cost constraints and/or physical constraints on characteristics such as size, weight, and available power and energy.
[15:51:38] <cabo> Thanks, that's the definition.
[15:51:40] <kerlyn> dthaler, I believe the I-D classifies based on memory, clock rate, b/w, etc.  very general.  I haven't read it in a while, but it helped to squelch confusion in lwig discussions.
[15:52:03] <cabo> kerlyn: Right, the draft goes on to define those classes.
[15:52:28] <kerlyn> dthaler, there you go; constrained node == 1984 host ;-)
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[15:53:50] <Dave Thaler> Constrained Network: A network where some of the characteristics pretty much taken for granted with link layers in common use in the Internet by 2013, are not attainable.
[15:55:27] <Dave Thaler> Constrained Node Network: A network whose characteristics are influenced by being composed of a significant portion of constrained nodes.
[15:55:55] <Michael Richardson> mic: I don't think we want to say "6lowpan over FOO", because I think it many cases, it's "IP over FOO where 6lowpan is the base technology to be adapted" (because, if 6lowpan worked, then we wouldn't need any work)
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[15:56:17] <Dave Thaler> (so yes a carrier pigeon network would be in scope for 6lo)
[15:56:31] <caozhen> ok, i will relay
[15:56:32] <kerlyn> mcr, +1
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[15:58:40] <kerlyn> carrier pigeon: low memory, long distance, source routing, P2P, (potentially) high b/w, lousy latency
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[15:59:12] <Dave Thaler> and lossy
[15:59:18] <kerlyn> right
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[16:02:07] <kerlyn> doesn't the adaptation layer need to de-compress before it hands up to the stack?
[16:02:36] <kerlyn> I guess ralph was speaking to protocol errors
[16:03:25] <kerlyn> hmmmm
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