IETF
CBOR
cbor@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 17, 2017< ^ >
m&m has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 98 Chicago - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/agenda/agenda-98-cbor-01
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[08:29:12] francesca has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 99 Prague - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-cbor-01
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[13:51:21] <Sean Leonard> hi everyone...I just pulled up the Etherpad (via Meetecho) and it has the IETF 98 agenda. Is that expected?
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[13:52:53] <Joe Hildebrand> I think I heard Paul Hoffman volunteer to take notes.
[13:52:57] <Meetecho> Sean Leonard: yep, that's the content of the CBOR Etherpad session right now
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[13:53:28] <mcr> I am the jabber scribe.  Please use mic: if you want me to channel you.  Or use the meetecho pacman.
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[13:54:01] <m&m> Paul Hoffman has volunteered for minutes
[13:54:03] <Joe Hildebrand> thanks mcr.  I'm remote today, unfortunately, so will likely need channeling at some point.
[13:54:41] <mcr> okay, you aren't using meetecho then?
[13:54:58] <mcr> it says you are on the screen here.
[13:55:49] <Joe Hildebrand> i am using meetecho.  don't know how disruptive it will be, but i'll try it at least the first time.
[13:57:20] <Joe Hildebrand> he sounds fine on meetecho
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[14:03:33] <Joe Hildebrand> i will give you a sixpack for those codes, though.
[14:03:52] <Sean Leonard> ;)
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[14:10:33] Joe Hildebrand raises hand
[14:10:58] <Joe Hildebrand> that's node-cbor. :)
[14:11:40] <Joe Hildebrand> https://www.npmjs.com/package/cbor shows 10k downloads last month.
[14:12:08] <mcr> you are node-cbor... ?
[14:12:11] <Joe Hildebrand> right.
[14:15:37] <Joe Hildebrand> here is that URL in more easily clickable form: https://github.com/cbor-wg/CBORbis/wiki/Implementation-matrix
[14:17:17] <Sean Leonard> Mic: what does "implementation" mean? Because you can tag anything with anything in CBOR...does it have to validate? reject non-conforming data?
[14:17:41] <Sean Leonard> (yeah, to Carsten's point)
[14:18:05] <Joe Hildebrand> mic: let's not get bogged down.  first step is clear.
[14:18:29] <mcr> Joe, I think our AD just said that.
[14:18:34] <mcr> do you want me to repeat?
[14:18:52] <Joe Hildebrand> no thx, we're good.
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[14:26:53] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> meetecho: wrong slide?
[14:27:13] <Sean Leonard> looks like the correct slide to me
[14:27:32] <Meetecho> Joe Hildebrand: yes, it's the correct slide
[14:27:37] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> I'm still seeing the implementation matrix?
[14:27:41] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> i'll refresh.
[14:28:00] <Meetecho> Joe Hildebrand: as a heads up, no need to rejoin for that
[14:28:17] <Meetecho> just hover on the stream, and some controls will appear, including a "refresh" icon
[14:28:26] <Meetecho> that will reconnect the stream
[14:28:34] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> ah, ok.  thanks.  i'll use that next time. :)
[14:28:47] jeffpc@jabber.org has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 99 Prague - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-cbor-01
[14:29:31] <m&m> toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe
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[14:38:43] jeffpc@jabber.org has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 99 Prague - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-cbor-01
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[14:42:00] <Meetecho> Just as a note to the chairs (in case they're unaware), there's Joe Hildebrand in the virtual queue
[14:42:28] <Joe Hildebrand> don't know what to click on, sorry.
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[14:42:54] <Meetecho> No need to click anything, the queue would unmute you automatically, possibly a mic capture issue?
[14:43:12] <Meetecho> Did you try a Self Test check in the last few days?
[14:43:21] <Joe Hildebrand> mic: i'd like to get the name nailed down before we go too far.
[14:43:24] <Joe Hildebrand> (as chair)
[14:43:27] <jeffpc@jabber.org> FWIW, I'm having a hard time not thinking of the license whenever CDDL is mentioned. Also, if I google search for CDDL, this work shows up in 10th place.
[14:43:34] <Sean Leonard> i have concerns about standards track
[14:43:34] <Joe Hildebrand> Meetecho: i did
[14:43:37] <mcr> meetecho, we are not hearing Joe.
[14:43:37] <mcr> maybe you are on mute?
[14:43:37] <mcr> it says you are speaking, so there must be audio coming from you into meetecho.
[14:43:37] <mcr> but maybe not into the room?
[14:43:59] <Meetecho> No, we can't hear him in Meetecho either
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[14:44:03] <Sean Leonard> not a solid objection, but, the CDDL document seems to be changing quite a bit, with innovations.
[14:44:09] <Sean Leonard> so "concerns"
[14:44:22] <Sean Leonard> we want to support innovation, but:
[14:44:22] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> look above
[14:44:33] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> mic: i'd like to get the name nailed down before we go too far.    [08:43] (as chair)
[14:44:51] <Meetecho> I do see incoming packets to the server, so it looks like a local issue: Joe, can you see the mic levels raising while you speak? (next to your name)
[14:45:00] <Sean Leonard> if standards documents start *relying* on it, it's harder to innovate CDDL, and remove features or change syntax
[14:45:01] <Hannes Raddatz> @Joe: click on Participant on the upper left corner
[14:45:13] <Sean Leonard> CDDL = i'm ok with, i agree with Joe, nail it down first
[14:45:21] <Sean Leonard> I think CDDL is ok :)
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[14:47:01] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> meetecho: yes, i'm a "Participant"
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[14:48:03] jeffpc@jabber.org has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 99 Prague - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-cbor-01
[14:48:12] <Meetecho> Yep, I mean, when you're unmuted, some levels appear next to your name, that show the volume of your audio being captured. Do those change while you talk? If not, it might indicate the mic is either muted or feeding silence to your browser
[14:48:23] <mcr> Maybe Sean wants to try speaking to the mic at some point to validate if it's an inroom issue or a JoeH issue with levels.
[14:48:31] <Meetecho> As it doesn't look like a network issue from the logs
[14:48:37] <mcr> Meetecho, we had like 5 dots on the screen.
[14:48:45] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> meetecho: don't worry about it. i'll just use Jabber relay
[14:49:16] <Meetecho> mcr: that's just an animation to highlight the fact the user is speaking
[14:49:38] <mcr> okay, I thought you were referring to our screen when you said "levels appear next to your name"
[14:49:42] <Meetecho> (or should be, in this case :) )
[14:50:03] <Meetecho> Ah got it. No, I was referring to some audio levels we add to the UI for the current speaker.
[14:50:54] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> mic: *way* too many tags.  one tag with an array [type, actual array] should work just fine.
[14:51:52] <francesca> (Sean I'll ask you to talk after this presentation)
[14:51:55] <Sean Leonard> Mic: When I reviewed this when originally proposed last year, I was okay with the quantity of tags, but opposed to them being in the 2-byte space ( < 256). In the four-byte space, no big deal.
[14:52:12] <Sean Leonard> (which raises the IANA considerations re: RFC 7049)
[14:53:27] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> mic: because it sets a really bad design precedent
[14:53:31] <Sean Leonard> Mic: my concern with Joe's proposal is that now we need *another* sub-registry for the type "tag" (not truly a tag, it's an enumeration). So I agree with Carsten
[14:53:36] <Sean Leonard> (and the draft)
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[14:54:40] <Joe Hildebrand> we can discuss offline.  i don't think it adds any size on the wire.  i don't think it requires extra allocations for implementations that understand the tag.
[14:55:14] <Joe Hildebrand> but I'm really opposed (as individual) to any one spec allocating that many tags.
[14:55:27] <Sean Leonard> Mic: we need more community guidance in general about when to tag and how it's useful. because nothing really "needs" to be tagged.
[14:55:48] <mcr> okay, I think we should move on about this topic...
[14:55:53] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> agree
[14:55:53] <Sean Leonard> yeah move on
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[14:58:46] <mcr> moved on the Extended Time tags.
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[14:59:20] <Joe Hildebrand> btw, meetecho keeps disconnecting one or another stream for me.
[15:00:46] <Meetecho> Joe Hildebrand: :(
[15:00:53] <Meetecho> Have you just rejoined? Cause I looked at your channels on the sever now and they seem ok
[15:01:10] <Meetecho> When that happens again can you ping me so that I can check in realtime?
[15:03:57] <mcr> it shows him as joined on the screen here.
[15:05:33] <Joe Hildebrand> i'll ping if i get into that state again, but we've already wasted enough time on it, and i don't want to keep being distracting.
[15:08:19] <Joe Hildebrand> mic: i showed how to do it with exactly one tag allocation. using more than that is profligate.
[15:09:46] <Joe Hildebrand> for those that are interested, imagine tag "x".  x([int, "string"]) registered a table entry.  x(int) was a reference to the previous registration
[15:11:27] <Joe Hildebrand> streams stuck
[15:11:57] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> i have not.
[15:12:00] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> (read the doc)
[15:12:43] <Sean Leonard> Announce: Just a reminder to the WG that there is a charter working group document draft-bormann-cbor-tags-oid-06, for OID tags and other identifiers, as well as other topics. Please review the work.
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[15:12:53] <Sean Leonard> It also includes content about fixing or better specifying certain tags.
[15:13:06] <Sean Leonard> (It hasn't changed since the March meeting.)
[15:13:43] <mcr> thank you. done.
[15:13:49] <Sean Leonard> Thanks!
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[15:13:54] <Joe Hildebrand_3269> thanks!
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[15:50:07] jeffpc@jabber.org has set the subject to: CBOR @ IETF 99 Prague - agenda: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/agenda/agenda-99-cbor-01
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