IETF
IASA 20
iasa20@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, March 20, 2018< ^ >
richsalz@jabber.at has set the subject to: IASA 2.0 at IETF 100
Room Configuration
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[13:28:45] <ted.h> I believe we should consider one additional legal structure: a tontine.
[13:28:58] <ted.h> Last one left alive gets the RFC Series and all the cookies they can eat.
[13:29:52] <Brian Haberman> @ted : write the draft.
[13:32:38] <Brian Haberman> The view of the balcony in Viscount: https://i.pinimg.com/474x/7c/65/81/7c6581e0536cf290d4396f592a2c5881--miss-piggy-american-idol.jpg
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[13:36:13] <danyork> I'll jabber-scribe.  Please preface anything you want to the mic with "MIC:"
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[13:41:22] <danyork> It appears the slides are not online.
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[13:43:10] <mcr> https://ipv.sx/iasa2.0/IASA-Strawman.pdf
[13:43:15] <mcr> if you need that diagram.
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[13:45:34] <Alissa Cooper> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-iasa20-dt-iasa-slides-00
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[13:45:56] <danyork> Alissa Cooper: Thanks!
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[13:46:43] <danyork> Lou Berger at mic
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[13:49:36] <danyork> Ted Hardie at mic
[13:52:38] <danyork> Harald Alvestrand at mic
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[13:53:50] <ted.h> Of course, losing the entire board due to a GPS failure would be an issue….
[13:54:13] <danyork> EKR at mic
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[13:56:23] <danyork> Sean Turner at mic
[13:56:41] <danyork> Alissa Cooper at mic
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[13:59:03] <danyork> Joel Halpern at mic
[13:59:27] <mcr> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/iasa20/current/msg00347.html
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[14:01:20] <danyork> John Levine at mic
[14:01:23] <Andrew Sullivan> I have lost the bead of Joel's concern
[14:02:37] <Brian Haberman> @Andrew: I took Joel to be concerned with board capture if the board's role is not well-defined.
[14:03:14] <Andrew Sullivan> I too am worried about capture.  But how does that relate to board size, and how does it relate to what the board is supposed to be doing?
[14:03:27] <mcr> https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-101-iasa20?useMonospaceFont=true if you want to help.
[14:04:31] <ted.h> @Andrew for size, a group largely composed of IETF appointees has a more grounded sense of the community than one that was, say, majority self-appointed (note: not the current proposal)
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[14:04:45] <Suzanne> Smaller boards at least appear more subject to capture….I understnad the concern intuitively, but a small board bound by strong accountability and a good selection process is going to be less of a problem than a large one that's not well-constrained.
[14:05:19] <ted.h> @Andrew that means if you want both outside expertise and the resilience, the size needs to go up a bit.
[14:05:52] <Andrew Sullivan> Nobody ever suggested a majority self-selected, AFAICT, though I worried about  the straw 5-person list, yes
[14:05:59] <danyork> Jonas at mic
[14:06:10] <ted.h> Jonne, not Jonas
[14:06:32] <danyork> thank you!
[14:06:33] <ted.h> @Andrew, yes, I agree, that was not proposed, it's just clearer as a threat if you take the extreme
[14:07:09] <Andrew Sullivan> Well, sure.  If we appointed the board from a pool provided by ITU-T, that would also be a threat.
[14:07:39] <Andrew Sullivan> But I'm struggling to imagine the case where we'd agree to an all-self-selected board.
[14:07:39] <ted.h> @Andrew  Hmm, Cambridge Analytica, to be both topical and extremely unlikely?
[14:07:46] <Andrew Sullivan> :)
[14:07:59] <danyork> Jonne Soininen, to be precise
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[14:08:29] <danyork> Barry Leiba at mic
[14:09:40] <Suzanne> almost all possible composition/selection algorithms end up with a Board that could work well, but doesn't have to. The number of members or whether the CEO is on it are implementation details.
[14:10:03] <danyork> Harald back at the mic
[14:10:43] <ted.h> My proposal was for staggered terms, but that isn't on the slide.
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[14:11:15] <danyork> Leslie Daigle at mic
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[14:11:20] <Andrew Sullivan> @Ted: It follows from the proposal, though
[14:12:07] <Brian Haberman> @ted: It's on the slide as a question. The DT recognizes the need to work those details.
[14:12:07] <Suzanne> Capture is harder with strong rules and norms around transparency, selection processes that include some genuinely independent directors, and other such measures. The size of the Board isn't actually that high up the list of protections.
[14:12:10] <ted.h> I have been in lots of voting situations that came down to 1, and yet were not in hell.
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[14:13:33] <danyork> EKR at mic
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[14:17:53] <danyork> Bob Hinden at mic
[14:18:11] <ted.h> I don't agree that the IETF Chair has to be in the loop on this consultation now.
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[14:20:04] <Andrew Sullivan> If the Board is going to make those decisions, then that is not this model.  It is another model
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[14:20:45] <danyork> Christian Huitema at mic
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[14:24:52] <danyork> Alissa Cooper at mic
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[14:28:41] <Andrew Sullivan> Indeed, further on what Alissa is saying right now, if we don't have a real Advisory Council, staff will come up with one of its own
[14:29:05] <Suzanne> @andrew even more to the point, it will be informal and hidden
[14:29:27] <Andrew Sullivan> That will mean that they hear from (and listen to) people they know, rather than people that nominally represent the community.  And what Suzanne said.
[14:29:52] <danyork> Ted Hardie at mic
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[14:35:42] <danyork> Ray Pelletier at mic
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[14:39:40] <danyork> mcr at mic
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[14:43:00] <danyork> Alissa Cooper speaking at mic
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[14:51:59] <danyork> Desiree Miloshevic at mic
[14:52:36] <ted.h> Back to the dba, though, right (IETF llc doing as ietf.org)
[14:53:30] <ted.h> Actually, the hiring committee agreed not to use video, to avoid letting the visuals impact the decision.
[14:54:04] <danyork> Brad Biddle at the mic <---  new IETF legal counsel (complete with grey beard)
[14:54:33] <Brian Haberman> @Dan: And you are jealous of Brad's beard.
[14:54:59] <danyork> Ha!
[14:56:48] <danyork> Bob Hinden at mic
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[14:59:51] <mcr> anyone remote who is going to hum?
[15:00:37] <danyork> Hum in the rom was all in favor
[15:00:56] <danyork> Q from Jon - do people feel like we have enough info to make a decision?
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[15:02:07] <danyork> Gonzalo Camarillo at mic
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[15:02:20] <hta> not humming, since my opinion is "we do not have enough information, and we won't be able to make an informed decision after we get more information either, so let's pick a decider and let him/her pick - flip a coin if necessary".
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[15:06:28] <ted.h> ytterbium level going for how much these days?
[15:06:50] <danyork> EKR at mic
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[15:15:07] <Alissa Cooper> https://github.com/coopdanger/iasa2-charter/blob/master/iasa2-charter.txt
[15:15:32] <danyork> Alissa at mic
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[15:16:50] <hta> Alissa, I think your repo is private.
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[15:21:44] <ajs> 'independent stream'!
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