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[13:00:32] <Warren Kumari> Second!
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[13:02:42] <John Scudder> Etherpad for notes: https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-interim-2020-idr-02?useMonospaceFont=true
[13:04:54] <Warren Kumari> Etherpad for virtual blue sheet:https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-107-idr-2-bluesheet
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[13:18:30] <Robert Raszuk> In VPNs we do not use Routing Discriminator ... RD == Route Distinguisher
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[13:31:25] <dee3@hot-chilli.net> Sorry about that, I'll change to Distinguisher in the next version.
[13:31:58] <aretana> Stepping out — conflict. :-(
[13:32:34] <John Scudder> When you emailed about that earlier my first reaction was to think you had to go to some kind of pugilistic event.
[13:33:24] <aretana> Not as exciting…it’s the IAB meeting. :-(
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[13:40:51] <randy> but dropping private is under op control
[13:40:59] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> exactly, randy
[13:42:46] <Warren Kumari> schnort!
[13:43:42] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> another item for the list is magic transitivity will be broken for some time while some implementations know what to do with the new bit and others don't.
[13:49:37] <randy> this proposal lacks substantial design and understanding of deployment.
[13:50:22] <John Scudder> note I'll relay substantive comments to the mic (so as to have them all in one place) unless you ask me not to. Specifically the previous two comments.
[13:50:46] <John Scudder> I mean, the Jabber room is logged too, but it's a pain to have multiple sources one has to consult.
[13:50:53] <Warren Kumari> +1. But, it does add complexity, so it's got that going for it…
[13:51:37] <randy> and it has communities signaling active semantics.  attackers will love it.
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[13:56:05] <Robert Raszuk> I do not see why we need reserved ASN range at all if for permmiting same admin domain(s) transit EBGP edges need to be cfg anyway to allow it in. Just use real ASN as set.
[13:57:51] <randy> "i guess there will be a little bit more extended discussion"  well said
[13:59:56] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> The main issue, John, is not everyone on webex is on jabber.  That means substantive comments are requiring either mic time (low efficiency) or get asked to look at such substantive comments in webex.  Your choice.
[14:00:34] <Robert Raszuk> @Jeff - we could paste into both ...
[14:00:40] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> let's not
[14:01:10] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> there's a place for outright side chatter.  but you get a mismatch in how to get feedback to people.
[14:02:05] <John Scudder> I'm trying to follow the protocol established for the main 107 meeting, but I hear you. Regardless, using any kind of IM for substantive discussion is not ideal, IMO, because it violates the "let's have one conversation" rule. Jakob is not included, because he's presenting.
[14:02:30] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> Mostly I'm "enjoying" a bit of what Alia Atlas called "Cassandrafreude" in watching people flailing to add magic semantics to large communities after so much fighting by those who did the original spec to not do anything special and make it a dumb feature.
[14:03:16] <randy> jeff+1
[14:03:55] <Robert Raszuk> Question - Does RFC6793 applies to XXC ? What happens if peers do not indicate 4 octet ASN support with XXC ?
[14:04:45] <John Scudder> XXC w/o 4-octet seems like a bit of a crazy corner case. IMO.
[14:05:45] <Robert Raszuk> I mean not about OS support but operator not enabling 4 octet ASNs for various reasons
[14:07:06] <John Scudder> interesting. probably needs to be covered.
[14:07:25] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> Basically, if you hijack a bit of something's namespace to do your work, you've contaminated how that namespace might be used in its original application.
[14:07:43] <Robert Raszuk> Yup
[14:08:57] <Robert Raszuk> Why this needs to be ASN and not a prefix ? At min prefix run can be expressed with single line of cfg to allow or not. ASNs are not too convinent for aggregated ACLs rules
[14:10:59] <randy> reserving space for an ill tought through draft is not appropriate
[14:14:52] <Robert Raszuk> Indeed ... Besides we do have a general issue how to propage BGP Updates across multiple ASes under same administration. It would be pretty bad to address it just for XXCs and not for any other BGP attributes
[14:17:52] <John Scudder> randy, do you mean 2^26 ASNs worth of space… or agenda space?
[14:18:36] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> We've been at a point the last several years in need of grouping public AS numbers for various purposes.  Yet another federation concept.  Mostly the impact is unifying things that are policy-like.
[14:18:54] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> Examples being rt-constrain and flowspec.
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[14:27:24] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> I suspect very loud bar discussions in Berlin over exactly those points aren't "foreseen".
[14:27:37] <aretana> Back…
[14:27:52] <randy> you came back about three minutes too early
[14:28:14] <aretana> I thought I would miss everything…and we’re still on the same slide. ;-)
[14:28:31] <randy> it has been a long slippery slide
[14:31:55] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-attribute-announcement-00 was what you were looking for, john.
[14:33:56] <John Scudder> John, or John?
[14:34:06] <John Scudder> Oh, maybe the other John's not on Jabber.
[14:34:59] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> @jgs
[14:52:08] <John Scudder> We are scheduled to end on the hour, nine minutes from now. If anyone objects to extending that, please let me know. Feel free to do it as a private message if you prefer.
[15:01:41] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> @warren randy is telling idr partially because iepg isn't meeting? ;-)
[15:03:09] <Warren Kumari> Violent agreement..
[15:03:41] <Warren Kumari> I just din't want this to be forgotten…
[15:04:15] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> It's good discussion.
[15:04:28] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> But a portion of the discussion eventually forks to what's a rewrite.
[15:04:42] <John Scudder> Second systems are FUN!
[15:05:11] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> only when your prior wisdom isn't lost to age, etc.
[15:06:53] <jhaas@jabb3r.org> To Rüdiger's point, crypto signatures on things like communities that are intended to be transitively muddled with is painful.  It was one of the big reasons for the diff between s-bgp and bgpsec.
[15:07:21] <Warren Kumari> +lots - this was useful
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