IETF
ipsecme@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, 26 March 2012< ^ >
yoshfuji has set the subject to: ipsec wrapped...
Room Configuration

GMT+0
[12:06:05] yaron.sheffer joins the room
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[13:10:23] <yaron.sheffer> Hi Yoav! Please notify Paul that Meetecho (that we arranged in advance) is not working yet.
[13:11:02] <Melinda> I was in the previous session in this room and the audience mike was completely inaudible.
[13:11:06] <synp> Yaron: we have a power failure in the room. Is the audio working (I'm going to say test)
[13:11:21] <yaron.sheffer> Yeah, the audio's working fine
[13:11:32] <yaron.sheffer> At least the chair's mike
[13:11:42] <Melinda> Could someone check the audience mike?
[13:11:48] <synp> I said "testing" on the audience mike
[13:12:00] <Melinda> Didn't hear a thing.
[13:12:05] <yaron.sheffer> me neither
[13:12:24] mcharlesr joins the room
[13:12:30] <yaron.sheffer> Meetecho is improving: 503 Service Unavailable...
[13:12:35] <mcharlesr> if you need me to MIC, please MIC:
[13:12:42] <synp> It's channeled to the room.
[13:12:50] <Sean Turner> can anybody hear paul?
[13:12:51] <yaron.sheffer> Thx!
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[13:12:56] <Sean Turner> any better
[13:13:03] <synp> Can you hear Paul?
[13:13:06] <Melinda> Paul's very clear.
[13:13:14] <Sean Turner> is paul still clear?
[13:13:18] <Sean Turner> we're checking mics
[13:13:20] <yaron.sheffer> yes
[13:13:25] <Melinda> Yes indeed.
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[13:13:33] <synp> also the audience mike?
[13:13:33] <Sean Turner> okay good - those are the mics at the front
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[13:15:46] <Sean Turner> they're working on the meetecho slides
[13:15:50] <Sean Turner> /room
[13:15:55] <Melinda> thanks
[13:15:59] <Sean Turner> steve's up now
[13:16:01] <synp> If you want something channeled, begin with MIC:
[13:16:13] Yaron Sheffer joins the room
[13:16:25] <judy zhu> new comer Judy is up now..............
[13:16:43] Alex joins the room
[13:16:50] <mcharlesr> slide 2 of http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-ipsecme-2.pdf
[13:17:45] <Alex> Slide 2: History
 
[13:18:09] <Alex> Slide 3: Issue
 #210:
 What
 Should
[13:18:28] Yaron Sheffer leaves the room
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[13:18:57] <Alex> Slide 4: 211:
 We
 should
 talk
 
[13:19:07] <mcharlesr> slide 3 actually.
[13:19:15] <Alex> Slide 3: Issue
 #210:
 What
 Should
[13:19:19] <Alex> right, sorry
[13:19:23] <Sean Turner> we call this effort
[13:19:28] <Alex> Slide 4: 211:
 We
 should
 talk
 
[13:19:32] <Sean Turner> wisely postponing that issue ;)
[13:20:41] <Alex> Slide 5: 212:
 SecVon
 2.2
 should
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[13:22:37] <synp> (projector is coming on now)
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[13:23:20] <Alex> Slide 6: 213:
 In
 use
 case
 2.1
[13:23:35] <Sean Turner> I think not adding new acronyms for sake of adding acronyms sake is a good idea
[13:23:55] <Melinda> ++
[13:24:23] Yaron Sheffer joins the room
[13:24:31] <Melinda> It is not at all clear to me that existing NAT traversal techniques are sufficient.
[13:24:40] <mcharlesr> Melinda... MIC?
[13:24:58] <Melinda> No, I think not until there's discussion.
[13:25:06] <Yaron Sheffer> there's an existing draft from StrongSwan who've used STUN for IKE/IPsec.
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[13:25:37] <synp> Yaron: MIC?
[13:25:49] <mcharlesr> (is TURN upwards compatible with STUN?)
[13:25:55] <Alex> Slide 7: 214:
 Should
 gateways
 fig
[13:26:23] <Yaron Sheffer> IIRC TURN is a superset of STUN, more tightly integrated with SIP.
[13:26:24] <Melinda> TURN solves a different problem. There's a NAT traversal framework that glues them together called "ICE."
[13:27:20] <yaron.sheffer> Melinda's right, I was confused.
[13:29:06] <Alex> Slide 8: 215:
 Should
 traffic
 flow
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[13:29:43] <synp> In IKE/IPsec we have the control connection (IKE) and data (IPsec) using the same port, so we may need a simpler protocol (rather than become versed in STUN/ICE/TURN)
[13:30:16] <Sean Turner> just checking that remote folks can hear the audience mic
[13:30:20] <yaron.sheffer> STUN is quite simple. And then it gets complex.
[13:30:24] <Melinda> Not really
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[13:30:50] <Sean Turner> he's right on the mic - but you can hear Paul fine?
[13:30:51] <synp> MCR is saying that packets flowing through the center is an absolute requirement
[13:30:57] <Melinda> STUN is pretty simple but it's got some serious limitations around topology
[13:31:22] <yaron.sheffer> MCR is hard to hear. Can you use the front mike instead?
[13:31:25] <Melinda> I can hear Paul very well but the audience mike is inaudible. This was a problem during the previous session in this room, too.
[13:31:41] <Melinda> Can the streamed audio be mixed differently from the audio in the room?
[13:31:50] <synp> Trying again?
[13:31:51] <Sean Turner> working better?
[13:32:02] <yaron.sheffer> no
[13:32:36] <synp> And now?
[13:32:36] <Sean Turner> better now...
[13:32:44] <Sean Turner> ?
[13:32:49] <Melinda> There we go.
[13:32:55] <Sean Turner> okay
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[13:35:54] <Melinda> Voice is pretty tolerant to losing the odd packet
[13:35:58] <judy zhu> can I ask the name of the guy who is talking?
[13:36:05] <Melinda> David Black
[13:36:09] <judy zhu> thanks a lot
[13:36:11] <synp> It's David Black. Now Tero
[13:36:26] <Alex> Slide 8: 215:
 Should
 traffic
 flow
[13:37:26] <Alex> Meetecho is @ http://www.meetecho.com/ietf83/ipsecme
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[13:40:12] <Alex> Slide 9: 216:
 MulVple
 interfaces
 o
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[13:42:37] <Alex> Slide 10: 217:
 Temporary
 CredenVals

[13:43:10] <judy zhu> did not follow just now, what is the conclusion with 216?
[13:43:32] <synp> yes, we have to look at this
[13:43:37] <mcharlesr> conclusion is that mobility as a result of multiple interfaces is a requirement.
[13:43:46] <mcharlesr> (not that there is a requirement to support multiple interfaces)
[13:44:03] <judy zhu> thanks,mcharlestr
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[13:44:22] <Alex> Slide 11: 218:
 ExhausVve
 configuraVon
[13:45:09] <Sean Turner> @mcr sorry about all that at the mic I just wanted to make sure those in remote land were going to hear ya
[13:45:27] <mcr> no problem Sean... glad I could provide some test data :-)
[13:45:56] <weiyinxing> for 215, flow through the gateway may be unnecessary for the reason of time-delay.
[13:46:34] <Sean Turner> I've alerted the secretariat to fix it for the next session
[13:47:13] <synp> well, voip with delays is irritating, but it's better than no voip at all, no?
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[13:47:39] <synp> (i mean about 215, not the voip from the room)
[13:47:53] <mcr> synp, no. voip with delays == no revenue.
[13:48:12] <Alex> Slide 12: 219:
 Star
 topology
 as
[13:50:06] <yaron.sheffer> mic: but this becomes a use case then. I agree with Yoav.
[13:50:47] <Alex> Slide 13: 220:
 Dangling
 Paragraph
 
[13:51:13] <Alex> Slide 14: 221:
 IPsec
 Architecture
 a
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[13:52:37] <weiyinxing> proprietary approaches, is there some specific example?
[13:52:55] <Alex> Slide 15: Next
 Steps
 
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[13:53:19] <Sean Turner> can we call it "fred" and be done with it?
[13:53:31] <synp> I don't think a standards-track protocol ensures that a particular implementation would implement all the checks either
[13:54:42] <yaron.sheffer> mic: requirements as an addition to the existing draft, not a new one, right?
[13:54:50] <synp> Sean: only if you come up with a forced acronym for FRED
[13:54:56] <Sean Turner> ;)
[13:55:20] <mcr> yaron; is that question still relevant?
[13:55:33] <yaron.sheffer> unless I missed the answer
[13:56:25] <synp> Answer is: same draft (new revision)
[13:56:30] <yaron.sheffer> thx
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[13:58:29] <Alex> Presentation stopped
[13:58:36] <yaron.sheffer> mic: high level statement: the IPsec community has once before deferred mobility, and this turned out to be the right thing. We might need to consider doing the same for this effort.
[13:58:52] <Sean Turner> we're on to tero's preso
[13:59:24] <Alex> Slide 3: What is Added
[13:59:52] <Alex> Slide 4: Questions to the IPsecME
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[14:01:10] <yaron.sheffer> mic: if this talks about existing payload formats at all, needs to be stds track
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[14:03:33] <Alex> Presentation stopped
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[14:05:45] <mcharlesr> This is the Elvis use case.
[14:06:06] <Alex> Sorry, this slides deck was not available on the meeting materials page :(
[14:07:25] <mcharlesr> Old IKEv1 IANA registry.
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[14:09:14] <synp> MCR: what is the elvis use case?
[14:10:16] <mcharlesr> synp: "Elvis has left the building" (so has to move from 1x to 3G)
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[14:10:46] <mcharlesr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_has_left_the_building
[14:10:57] <synp> MCR: OK :-)
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