IETF
JMAP
jmap@jabber.ietf.org
Monday, July 17, 2017< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[05:07:40] Kurt Andersen joins the room
[06:24:36] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[06:42:29] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[06:45:56] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[06:46:29] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[06:56:29] Kurt Andersen leaves the room
[07:13:29] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[07:16:59] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:24:31] Kurt Andersen joins the room
[07:28:18] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[07:41:30] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:42:10] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[07:42:30] Kurt Andersen leaves the room
[07:42:35] Kurt Andersen joins the room
[07:51:30] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[07:51:51] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[08:52:30] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[09:19:10] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[09:32:00] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[09:32:30] Kurt Andersen leaves the room
[09:41:08] S.Bosch joins the room
[11:16:58] Meetecho joins the room
[11:16:59] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[11:17:51] yone joins the room
[11:17:59] yone leaves the room
[11:21:15] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[11:21:39] Barry Leiba joins the room
[11:25:13] Timo Sirainen joins the room
[11:25:14] Achim Klabunde joins the room
[11:25:14] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[11:25:14] Stephan Bosch joins the room
[11:25:14] Dave Crocker joins the room
[11:26:06] Neil Jhaveri joins the room
[11:26:46] Dave Crocker leaves the room
[11:26:48] Dave Crocker joins the room
[11:27:19] Neil Jhaveri leaves the room
[11:29:11] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[11:29:13] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[11:29:17] <S.Bosch> sound is a bit strange
[11:29:19] <Dave Crocker> booming bass on audio, just now, but sounds from room seem ok.
[11:29:46] <Dave Crocker> You are super bass.  (audio comment, not personal.)
[11:29:53] <S.Bosch> not very clear
[11:29:56] <S.Bosch> yes bass
[11:29:57] Neil Jhaveri joins the room
[11:29:59] <jeffpc@jabber.org> I think that's just his booming voice
[11:30:05] <Dave Crocker> ack.
[11:30:20] <S.Bosch> yes, better
[11:30:29] <S.Bosch> much better
[11:30:33] <Dave Crocker> Floor mike 1 pretty treble.  Second pretty good.
[11:30:56] Ken Murchison joins the room
[11:32:22] Sean Leonard joins the room
[11:35:32] Julian Reschke joins the room
[11:36:20] alexey.melnikov joins the room
[11:36:36] <Barry Leiba> Does anyone in Jabber need slides to be announced in Jabber (can't see them on Meetecho)?
[11:38:02] Kurt Andersen joins the room
[11:39:00] Achim Klabunde leaves the room
[11:39:01] Achim Klabunde joins the room
[11:40:36] Ned Freed joins the room
[11:40:50] <Sean Leonard> microphone is muffled
[11:41:00] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[11:41:01] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[11:41:01] <jeffpc@jabber.org> Known issue
[11:41:05] John Levine joins the room
[11:41:21] <Stephan Bosch> that is the word I was looking for :)
[11:41:27] <Sean Leonard> please transcribe (or highlight key words) for Jabber participants...
[11:41:36] <Dave Crocker> @barry: besides chari mike being muffled, it apparently is very low volume.  Can barely hear what you are saying.
[11:42:14] <Barry Leiba> Dave: ACK
[11:42:23] <Meetecho> May it be their mic is turned off?
[11:42:34] <Meetecho> There is a trigger to turn the mic on for the chair mike
[11:42:52] <Barry Leiba> When we touch the mic it makes a lot of noise.
[11:42:56] <Meetecho> If anyone is in the room, can you notify the chairs about that?
[11:43:03] <Barry Leiba> I am a chair.
[11:43:19] <Meetecho> Whoops sorry Barry, wasn't looking at the video and didn't notice :)
[11:43:21] <Barry Leiba> We'll experiment the next time we have to talk.
[11:43:24] Ned Freed leaves the room
[11:43:29] <Dave Crocker> I suspect the chair mike is 'on'. The sound is different than just 'distant.'
[11:43:38] <Meetecho> Sending someone to look into this
[11:43:41] <Barry Leiba> Ta
[11:43:49] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[11:43:58] Ken Murchison joins the room
[11:44:46] <Barry Leiba> Sean, do you have the slides downloaded?
[11:44:50] Stephan Bosch leaves the room
[11:44:52] Stephan Bosch joins the room
[11:45:28] Ned Freed joins the room
[11:46:22] <Dave Crocker> Small point that isn't trivial:  don't overload field names.  If 'messageid' is not rfc5322 message id, then use a different name for it.  Don't invite confusion. (there will be enough that happens on its own.)
[11:46:26] <Sean Leonard> (by transcribe/highlight, I was referring to the muffled questions being asked at the mic live :s )
[11:46:51] <Barry Leiba> Dave: for mic?
[11:47:27] <Dave Crocker> sure.
[11:47:39] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[11:47:47] <Dave Crocker> +1
[11:47:51] <Stephan Bosch> indeed
[11:49:08] <Ned Freed> Or uniqueid, UID, etc.
[11:49:19] <jeffpc@jabber.org> Oid?
[11:49:59] <Dave Crocker> UID has a nice history. jmsgid seems natural. lots of alternatives to choose.
[11:50:51] <Barry Leiba> Meetecho: Turns out the desk mic works if you don't push the button, but it's too quiet.  THen when you do push the button, it's very loud.  So we're all set with it now.
[11:51:13] <Dave Crocker> Hmmm.  Larger issue is that there are jmap constructs and there are RFC5322 constructs (and, I guess, RFC 5321 constructs.)  Essentially 3 name spaces that co-occur.
[11:52:08] <Meetecho> Mh, still sounds like something that will need to be fixed in the mixer, though, probably the volume for that mic there is too high
[11:53:38] <jeffpc@jabber.org> s/message/mail/ ?
[11:54:41] <Barry Leiba> Meetecho: One wonders if there's a way to make it so switching the desk mic on and off doesn't produce a very loud pop.
[11:55:50] <Meetecho> Is there a way to keep it on, or is it just push-to-talk? An AV team guy should be there shortly though
[11:56:32] <Barry Leiba> The AV guy came and went, because things are working now.  We can just leave it on, but then it picks up noise from the chair table.  It's OK: we'll cope.
[11:57:12] <Meetecho> Got it: we'll see if this can be fixed in between sessions or before tomorrow
[11:57:33] <Barry Leiba> Ta
[11:57:55] <Sean Leonard> Mic: I agree with Chris Newmann--give IMAP MIME positional information
[11:58:04] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[11:58:25] <Barry Leiba> Sean, do you really need your agreement to be on the mic?
[11:58:35] <Sean Leonard> good point--not necessary to be at mic
[11:58:40] <Barry Leiba> OK, ta.
[12:00:47] Ken Murchison joins the room
[12:03:07] <Dave Crocker> @chris: 'jmap is closer to the UI'.  I don't understand that assessment.
[12:03:33] <Barry Leiba> I don't think Chris is on jabber.
[12:03:51] <Dave Crocker> ack. mostly just wanted to mark the question.
[12:04:14] <Timo Sirainen> I think the hope is that you could run javascript UI directly on top of jmap, without a middleware like nowadays exists in webmails
[12:05:11] <Timo Sirainen> or whatever client UI, and make it easier without implementing workarounds for each client separately..
[12:05:19] <Dave Crocker> @timo: javascript isn't middleware?
[12:05:41] <Timo Sirainen> I suppose it could be :)
[12:06:24] <Dave Crocker> @timo: that was a rhetorical question, to mark the view that 'closer' here seems to have more to do with nuances of implementation (in some environments) than actual networking architecture difference.
[12:07:09] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[12:07:19] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[12:11:40] Ken Murchison leaves the room
[12:13:38] Kurt Andersen leaves the room
[12:15:22] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[12:15:36] <Sean Leonard> Mic: I would like to see TLS mutual authentication, which is already supported by (some) IMAP clients. Where is it? And can we devolve to another spec that works reliably on that topic?
[12:15:53] <Barry Leiba> You're after Mark
[12:16:40] <Barry Leiba> Dave, two ahead of you after Mark
[12:17:07] <Sean Leonard> Mic: Don't use basic auth. I somewhat disagree with Mark. THe key thing is that the user prompt is not "username and password", but some kind of "token" prompt, maybe with challenges or UI elements.
[12:17:59] <Sean Leonard> ('user prompt' should read 'protocol elements')
[12:19:47] <Dave Crocker> ping
[12:19:48] <Barry Leiba> Dave, you're after Torsten
[12:20:37] Kurt joins the room
[12:21:59] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[12:24:00] Kurt joins the room
[12:24:00] Kurt leaves the room
[12:24:57] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[12:25:32] <Dave Crocker> "We want to be flexible, rather than Procrustean." "Why don't you want to be Procrustean?"
[12:26:45] <Barry Leiba> "You're being pedantic!", is a compliment if you're a pedant.
[12:28:44] Kurt joins the room
[12:29:01] <Dave Crocker> But not if you like running.
[12:29:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:29:45] Kurt joins the room
[12:31:00] <Dave Crocker> 'perfectly stated as written': +1
[12:33:41] Kurt joins the room
[12:33:57] <Barry Leiba> Dave, please "go to the mic" so I can take a picture of the screen in that state.  Thanks.
[12:34:14] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[12:34:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:34:32] Kurt joins the room
[12:36:20] <Barry Leiba> Thanks
[12:36:24] <Dave Crocker> Hand raised, but nothing to say.
[12:36:41] <Dave Crocker> ack.
[12:37:13] Kurt joins the room
[12:37:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:39:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:40:00] Kurt leaves the room
[12:40:00] Kurt leaves the room
[12:40:03] Kurt joins the room
[12:43:41] Kurt joins the room
[12:44:00] Kurt leaves the room
[12:44:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:44:35] Kurt joins the room
[12:44:53] Simon Hicks joins the room
[12:46:49] <Julian Reschke> is it https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-webpush-encryption/ we would need to wait for?
[12:48:02] <Sean Leonard> Mic: not too familiar with this space. But, what if this JMAP spec defines a uniform message type (message/jmap-push-notification, application/jmap-push-notification, etc.) that is packaged and encrypted according to the relevant push mechanism? (then the web push / iOS push modules pass that to the JMAP handler to deal with it)
[12:48:42] <Barry Leiba> Julian: yes
[12:48:43] Kurt joins the room
[12:49:16] Kurt leaves the room
[12:49:23] <Julian Reschke> Barry: that's on next month's IESG agenda...
[12:49:28] Kurt joins the room
[12:49:58] <Barry Leiba> Julian: there may be more also, though.  I haven't been following the webpush work.
[12:53:00] Kurt leaves the room
[12:54:33] Kurt leaves the room
[12:54:37] <Sean Leonard> On "transport": Mic: I would like to see CBOR support in jmap-core, using the same data model. I.e., rather than submitting & accepting "application/json", "application/cbor" would also be defined. Since CBOR is a superset of JSON, it should be an easy thing to add/support. Results in increased efficiency on the wire both ways. Not proposing CBOR-specific data model elements (e.g., tags) at this time.
[12:54:53] Kurt joins the room
[12:55:30] Kurt leaves the room
[12:55:41] Kurt joins the room
[12:56:45] Simon Hicks leaves the room
[12:56:51] <Barry Leiba> Sean, I'm going to hold your question until Neil is done with this pair of slides.
[12:57:16] <Sean Leonard> ok, fair
[12:59:01] Kurt leaves the room
[12:59:07] Kurt joins the room
[13:03:00] John Levine leaves the room
[13:03:42] Kurt joins the room
[13:04:29] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[13:04:31] Kurt leaves the room
[13:04:48] Kurt joins the room
[13:04:52] <Sean Leonard> BINGO!
[13:04:58] Kurt leaves the room
[13:05:12] <Julian Reschke> mic: does application/cbor really win over application/json with gzip?
[13:05:30] <Barry Leiba> Julian: you really need that on the mic now?
[13:06:05] <Sean Leonard> See, e.g., slide 41 of CBOR:
[13:06:07] <Sean Leonard> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-cbor-consolidated-slides-02.pdf
[13:06:40] Chokri Ben Romdhane joins the room
[13:06:41] <Julian Reschke> Barry: no, not really...
[13:06:46] <Barry Leiba> :-)
[13:07:56] <Sean Leonard> (off-mic, just observing) the issue is that CBOR is binary & supports binary more easily ;)  ... which means that maybe CBOR could more easily transmit message bodies inline ... eventually ... :D
[13:08:45] Kurt joins the room
[13:10:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:10:03] Kurt joins the room
[13:12:50] Chokri Ben Romdhane leaves the room
[13:13:45] Kurt joins the room
[13:14:25] Stephan Bosch leaves the room
[13:15:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:15:03] Chokri Ben Romdhane joins the room
[13:15:09] Kurt joins the room
[13:15:27] Barry Leiba joins the room
[13:16:44] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[13:18:01] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[13:18:42] Kurt joins the room
[13:19:31] Kurt leaves the room
[13:19:41] Kurt joins the room
[13:20:14] Satoru Kanno joins the room
[13:22:25] Chokri Ben Romdhane leaves the room
[13:23:46] Kurt joins the room
[13:25:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:25:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:25:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:25:54] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[13:28:35] <Neil Jhaveri> I would vote allowing mailboxes to be deleted with messages in them, and achieving "more effort" through UI, not more work at the protocol layer.
[13:29:04] Kurt joins the room
[13:29:47] Kurt joins the room
[13:30:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:31:11] alexey.melnikov leaves the room
[13:31:35] Dave Crocker leaves the room
[13:32:30] Satoru Kanno leaves the room
[13:32:43] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[13:32:58] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[13:33:00] Neil Jhaveri leaves the room
[13:33:10] Julian Reschke leaves the room
[13:33:10] Timo Sirainen leaves the room
[13:33:10] Achim Klabunde leaves the room
[13:33:10] Sean Leonard leaves the room
[13:33:10] Ned Freed leaves the room
[13:33:23] Meetecho leaves the room
[13:33:31] Kurt leaves the room
[13:34:42] Kurt joins the room
[13:35:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:35:01] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[13:35:13] Kurt joins the room
[13:35:31] Kurt leaves the room
[13:35:31] Kurt leaves the room
[13:41:17] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[13:41:31] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[13:41:45] Kurt Andersen joins the room
[13:43:31] S.Bosch leaves the room
[13:43:32] S.Bosch joins the room
[13:44:28] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[13:44:29] Barry Leiba joins the room
[13:58:01] Kurt leaves the room
[13:58:01] Kurt joins the room
[13:58:37] Kurt joins the room
[13:59:01] Kurt leaves the room
[14:16:06] Kurt Andersen leaves the room
[14:21:00] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[14:48:01] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[14:48:02] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[15:08:08] Barry Leiba joins the room
[15:09:11] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[15:18:01] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[15:23:07] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[15:23:17] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[15:50:07] jeffpc@jabber.org joins the room
[16:16:27] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[16:32:24] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[16:33:01] jeffpc@jabber.org leaves the room
[16:38:33] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[16:41:50] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[17:09:22] Kurt joins the room
[17:09:31] Kurt leaves the room
[17:27:01] S.Bosch leaves the room
[20:26:07] Barry Leiba leaves the room
[20:58:36] Kurt joins the room
[20:59:02] Kurt leaves the room
Powered by ejabberd - robust, scalable and extensible XMPP server Powered by Erlang Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS!