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[14:57:53] <nico> hey
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[16:04:28] <nico> hello
[16:04:37] <nico> I did hear Shawn testing the audio
[16:04:40] <nico> but nothing now
[16:05:00] <hartmans@jis.mit.edu/owl> Jeff is futzing with sound
[16:06:01] <nico> I'm curious to know how much delay we have this time
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[16:08:06] <nico> sound is fine
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[16:10:35] <nico> http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf706.m3u
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[16:11:21] <leifj> Shawn reviewing active wg items
[16:11:24] <leifj> and issues
[16:11:52] <nico> we should measure audiocast delay at some point
[16:11:56] <nico> :)
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[16:12:57] <leifj> Shawn now on draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-domain-based-names
[16:13:23] <nico> I didn't take the full set of DISCUSSes into account
[16:13:28] <nico> when I submitted -04
[16:13:41] <nico> I really wanted to get the I18N updates in
[16:14:11] <nico> it might have been better to not submit one at all until I had the time to update it for all DISCUSSes
[16:14:21] <nico> BTW, I cannot hear Sam
[16:14:31] <nico> there we go
[16:14:33] <lha> sam using mike
[16:14:35] <leifj> Sam at mic now
[16:14:46] <nico> yes
[16:14:54] <leifj> discussion about the reference to RFC2741
[16:15:13] <tlyu@jis.mit.edu> typo in slide; it's RFC2743
[16:15:21] <nico> yes, use of domain-based names requires updates to application protocols
[16:15:45] <nico> mic
[16:16:03] <jhutz> The slide projector can be seen via a public vnc server at ietf-vnc.central.org
[16:16:11] <nico> ah
[16:16:12] <jhutz> in theory
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[16:16:48] <nico> yay, I get slides
[16:17:14] <nico> this registry
[16:17:18] <nico> the one for name types
[16:18:05] <jhutz> stand by; don't talk; I'm going to try to connect you.
[16:18:12] <nico> the IANA registry doc is for all the other things we want a registry for
[16:18:25] <nico> (symbol names, type names, constants)
[16:18:27] <nico> ...
[16:18:30] <jhutz> say something
[16:18:35] <leifj> Audio experimentation going on...
[16:18:36] <jhutz> just say "test"
[16:18:41] <leifj> yes
[16:18:45] <lha> nico online
[16:18:46] <jhutz> excellent. we now have a nico
[16:18:46] <leifj> we heard Nico say test
[16:18:54] <nico> wow
[16:18:58] <nico> that's a lot of delay!
[16:19:00] <jhutz> now I'm going to mute you. tell me when you want to talk.
[16:19:08] <leifj> Nico was muted
[16:19:09] <nico> 'k
[16:20:16] <leifj> Shawn now in draft-ietf-kitten-krb5-gssapi-domain-based-names-04
[16:21:23] <nico> BTW, I'd love to hear from Sam about the I18N updates
[16:21:35] <nico> since those are the ones I'm most likely to get wrong
[16:21:37] <leifj> Shawn now on draft-ietf-kitten-rfc2853bis-03
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[16:24:51] <leifj> Right now we're looking at an email about hostbased names
[16:25:01] <leifj> jhutz is working on getting the URL here
[16:25:08] <leifj> Chris N at mic
[16:25:22] <jhutz> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/kitten/current/msg01405.html
[16:25:38] <jhutz> sorry; I typed it into the wrong jabber window :-)
[16:25:48] <nico> I had agreed to use ABNF, and since Alexey sent the necessary text I'll fold it in
[16:26:00] <nico> how soon can I submit new versions of I-Ds?
[16:26:28] <nico> alexey: not even in practice
[16:26:31] <nico> think 'host'
[16:26:55] <nico> but going forward it's likely that we'll try to have the protocol name match IANA port number names
[16:27:04] <nico> ^protocol^service name^
[16:27:26] <jhutz> you can submit new versions immediately.
[16:27:36] <nico> really? after the conference started?
[16:27:47] <nico> if so then I'll submit one tonight
[16:27:54] <nico> :)
[16:28:09] <jhutz> in fact, if you use the web tool, you can _always_submit things; anything sent during the couple of weeks before IETF is held, but not rejected outright.
[16:28:37] <nico> oh, i c
[16:30:27] <nico> summary: ABNF or no ABNF?
[16:31:01] <nico> ok
[16:31:06] <nico> thanks
[16:31:13] <Alexey> We will have ABNF
[16:31:26] <Alexey> My proposal won, unless I hear otherwise ;-)
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[16:31:39] <jhutz> remember the whole room can see this
[16:31:57] <nico> who are you reminding?
[16:31:59] <leifj> There was consensus in the room for alexeys proposal afau
[16:32:07] <jhutz> alexey
[16:32:32] <leifj> Shawn on draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-channel-bindings
[16:32:46] <leifj> draft-ietf-kitten-stackable-pseudo-mechs
[16:33:09] <leifj> (drop from agenda)
[16:33:43] <leifj> dratf-ietf-kitten-extended-mech-inqury
[16:33:45] <nico> I am
[16:33:46] <jhutz> nico? care to comment on that?
[16:33:50] <nico> I can comment
[16:33:52] <nico> via jabber
[16:34:03] <jhutz> what, you don't want to talk?
[16:34:07] <nico> no need to remove pseudo-mech attrs from the extended inquiry APIs
[16:34:12] <nico> I could talk
[16:34:16] <nico> would you rather?
[16:34:27] <jhutz> talk now
[16:34:34] <leifj> We hear you nico
[16:34:58] <leifj> not so much
[16:34:58] <jhutz> what just happened?
[16:35:13] <leifj> try again nico
[16:35:20] <jhutz> it's working fine
[16:35:21] <jhutz> keep going
[16:35:54] <leifj> Sam going to mic
[16:36:12] <jhutz> you are muted
[16:36:34] <jhutz> shawn: consensus is that pseudo-mech attrs stay
[16:36:57] <leifj> draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-naming-exts-02 now
[16:37:03] <nico> and the krb5, no?
[16:37:06] <hartmans@jis.mit.edu/owl> We could use sip, for which I think we can get most usb alsa devices to work
[16:37:29] <nico> sam: I'd have to go hunt for a client
[16:37:31] <jhutz> nico, comments on naming exts?
[16:37:37] <nico> not really
[16:37:41] <nico> just that it's a lot of work
[16:37:46] <hartmans@jis.mit.edu/owl> I could give you a real phone number to call
[16:37:51] <leifj> draft-ietf-kitten-gssapi-extensions-iana-01
[16:37:53] <nico> don't expect a WGLC next week :/
[16:37:54] <jhutz> let's not play with it now
[16:38:10] <hartmans@jis.mit.edu/owl> Obviously not
[16:38:14] <nico> sam: let's save that for the NFSv4 WG meeting
[16:38:38] <hartmans@jis.mit.edu/owl> O I was thinking of saving for another ietf
[16:38:54] <nico> the IANA doc should be our highest priority after domain-based names, probably
[16:40:34] <jhutz> I don't think nfsv4 is feasible; that's tomorrow morning and would involve another last-minute audio request plus getting everyhting working, and I don't think sam or I have that kind of time this afternoon.
[16:40:43] <nico> m;ok
[16:40:46] <jhutz> but enough of that in this forum
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[16:41:14] <leifj> Shawn on Review and Milestones
[16:41:53] <jhutz> is there a stuckee for iana?
[16:41:57] <nico> I'll have the domain-based names docs updated this week
[16:42:00] <nico> tonight perhaps
[16:42:13] <nico> I want the IANA doc moved up, as stated on the mic
[16:42:35] <nico> I want to move extended mech inquiry down to at least February, perhaps even March
[16:42:35] <leifj> People are hiding under their chairs to avoid beeing stuck with iana registry doc
[16:42:40] <nico> repeat your question
[16:42:55] <jhutz> my question is, is there an author for iana
[16:43:06] <jhutz> because that's what we're talking about now.
[16:43:08] <nico> jhutz: yes, I'll edit it
[16:43:21] <nico> I may need a volunteer to populate it
[16:43:31] <nico> but, IIRC we can submit initial contents separately
[16:43:46] <nico> in which case I can probably get it done very quickly
[16:43:52] <leifj> Sam thinks we need to get more people involved
[16:43:56] <jhutz> sam is suggesting that we find a non-nico author for iana, in order to generate more involvement.
[16:44:05] <nico> +1 to what Sam just said
[16:44:22] <jhutz> Personally, I agree. We can use nico's cycles more effectively.
[16:44:45] <nico> especially when there's few of them (as there have been in '07)
[16:44:58] <nico> fwiw, this is a very simple doc
[16:45:02] <nico> it's in xml2rfc format
[16:45:05] <jhutz> you need to learn how to do hyperthreading
[16:45:35] <nico> jhutz: need more I/O bandwidth too
[16:46:27] <nico> if we put the initial registry contents in a separate doc for IANA then we can get this done very quickly -- all we need, if I won't edit it, is someone who's written I-Ds in xml2rfc format before
[16:47:04] <nico> mic
[16:47:08] <nico> Sam needs a mic
[16:47:17] <nico> so does jhutz
[16:47:31] <jhutz> no; I was just giving sam instructions on where to stand to avoid blocking the screen
[16:48:00] <leifj> Sam talking about NFS use of mandatory to implement security mecs
[16:49:29] <nico> they don't
[16:49:57] <nico> unmute me at your first convenience -- I'm at the mic :)
[16:50:08] <jhutz> 50ยข version: NFS needs a mandatory security mech that's good enough and meets their performance needs. Since they're trying to avoid copies and such, this more or less means secure authentication plus channel bindings to something like ipsec plus making gss_wrap itself a noop (essentially, ccm)
[16:50:25] <nico> never mind
[16:50:30] <nico> Sam said what I was going to
[16:51:53] <nico> the kitten channel binding I-D is an abstract version of the channel bindings text in RFC2744
[16:52:04] <nico> we don't need that for NFSv4 to use it
[16:52:32] <nico> if the NFSv4 WG prefers to extend RPCSEC_GSS then there's no need for CCM, pseudo-stackable mechs
[16:52:39] <nico> and we need only review what they do
[16:52:57] <nico> I think extending RPCSEC_GSS will turn out to be preferable
[16:53:25] <leifj> Mark Crispin at mic
[16:54:25] <nico> the problem that Marc describes is particularly annoying in SSHv2
[16:55:06] <nico> we've discussed this in the past, but anything along the lines of what Marc is describing requires changes to the app protocols (and/or SASL, in the case of SASL apps)
[16:55:11] <leifj> Marc Crispin sorry
[16:55:16] <nico> got it
[16:55:58] <nico> we've talked in the past about "federation negotiation"
[16:56:12] <nico> and we've talked about a GSS-API pseudo-mech or extensions to SPNEGO to do that
[16:56:26] <nico> BUT, if you are using non-GSS-API mechanisms then this is insufficient
[16:56:34] <nico> mic!
[16:57:08] <nico> jhutz: that works only for mechanisms like Kerberos V!
[16:57:16] <nico> it doesn't work for other mechanisms
[16:57:44] <nico> look at the jabber room...
[16:57:58] <nico> mic!
[16:58:00] <leifj> Marc wants to distinguish between don't have creds and don't know how to get creds
[16:58:15] <jhutz> sorry; I was at the mic.
[16:58:22] <jhutz> You're in the queue now behind sam
[17:00:08] <leifj> go nico
[17:02:46] <nico> the general problem of mechanism+federation negotiation though is a very interesting one
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[17:03:26] <nico> are we done?
[17:03:30] <leifj> Shawn has wrapped up
[17:03:33] <nico> all I hear is silence
[17:03:34] <nico> ah
[17:03:46] <nico> 'k
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