IETF
kitten
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Thursday, August 1, 2013< ^ >
stpeter has set the subject to: KITTEN WG | http://tools.ietf.org/wg/kitten/
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[13:01:21] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Hmm, only two people here, 20 minutes in advance?
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[13:11:07] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Well, I think I found the audio feed ... it always seems harder than I
would expect.
[13:11:42] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> It's a little distorted, but audible.
[13:14:35] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> It seems the same.
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[13:14:36] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I seem to have lost my stream, is it being restarted?
[13:15:07] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I guess there's not a good way to report that my jabber connection
also seems to have broken.
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[13:20:19] <Rhys> i shall be jabber scribing. if anyone wants comments read out at that mic, please post them prefixed with mic: so that I know
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[13:22:48] <tlyu> audio is clipping on the stream
[13:22:53] <tlyu> mostly when Shawn speaks
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[13:24:35] <m&m> taking minutes in < http://tools.ietf.org/wg/kitten/minutes >
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[13:25:07] <Scott Cantor> Depends on two OASIS specs, one's final, one was held up by a voting mistake and is being re-balloted in the next month.
Next draft will update the refs and probably add some security considerations text, no technical work left (barring any GS2 changes).
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[13:25:29] <Rhys Smith> oops
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[13:25:43] <Rhys Smith> slides: current doc status
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[13:25:52] <Rhys Smith> currently on sasl-saml-ec (slide 6)
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[13:26:09] <Rhys Smith> slide 7 - kdc model
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[13:26:19] <Rhys Smith> slide 8 - pkinit-alg-agility
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[13:27:29] <Rhys Smith> slide 9 - iakerb
[13:28:04] <tlyu> is someone dealing with the stream audio clipping problem? i can't access email right now and it's quite painful
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[13:28:53] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Sorry about the bouncing, fixed now.
[13:29:12] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> [test message, please ignore (there are logs, no need to reply)]
[13:29:55] <sftcd> @tylu: audio still problematic?
[13:30:04] <tlyu> sftcd: yes
[13:30:06] <sftcd> ack
[13:30:20] <Rhys Smith> slide 10 - cammac
[13:30:22] <jimsch1> NOC ticket sent to the meeting help desk
[13:30:26] <tlyu> thanks
[13:30:29] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I have read cammac
[13:30:33] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I have read a version of CAMMAC.
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[13:30:57] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Unfortunately, my client is not *receiving* messages, though it can
apparently send just fine.
[13:32:32] <Rhys Smith> slide 11 - "sasl-gs2 update […]"
[13:33:07] <sftcd> anyone know the mail address for audio trouble tickets? think the one I used wasn't right
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[13:34:11] <sftcd> found it: mtd@ietf.org
[13:34:20] <Scott Cantor> mic: certainly will review, assist if needed
[13:34:27] <jimsch1> @sftcd - I have already sent one in
[13:34:35] <Scott Cantor> mic: don't have code experience with GS2 to really do this right
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[13:35:07] <Scott Cantor> mic: can help to a point, but need implementer experience
[13:35:47] <sftcd> @remote folks: secretariat just said: "  I want to give you a heads up that we are currently experiencing an issue with AT&T, our service provider, which is resulting in high levels of packet loss. We have opened a ticket and are working to find out how long it will be until the issue is resolved.  I will keep you updated as I learn anything, but be please be aware that ietf.org is currently performing more slowly than normal. " dunno if that's affecting audio
[13:36:20] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I don't think packet loss would cause clipping such as I am hearing,
but thanks for the update.
[13:36:21] <tlyu> this sounds like an analog gain level problem though
[13:38:40] <tlyu> does audio sound ok in the physical room?
[13:38:44] <sftcd> tickets filed, appreciate your patience while they do stuff, but if they're seeing a big problem elsewhere they may be slower than usual
[13:38:48] <sftcd> audio is fine in the room
[13:39:47] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Audio is actually okay for me remotely, maybe a little fuzzy.
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[13:40:33] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> The clipiping I hear is relatively minor, definitely not a critical
problem.
[13:40:40] <Klaas Wierenga> it sounds like it is missing the high frequencies but it is fine to follow
[13:41:58] <Rhys Smith> slide 12 - channel bound flag
[13:42:52] <Rhys Smith> slide 13 - cts-hmac-sha2
[13:43:57] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I don't believe that's correct.
[13:44:04] <tlyu> Kelley wrote up something Nico proposed for the short-plaintext case; not sure we actually had consensus for that particular approach
[13:44:06] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I believe the proposal was to use bits from the ivec.
[13:44:18] <tlyu> mic on my previous comment please
[13:44:57] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Also mic on my comment, please.
[13:45:06] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> mic: There was *no concrete reasoning* in the ietf-krb-wg archives to
support ciphertext expansion being a problem, only supposition and
speculation.
[13:45:52] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> (back from when camellia and enctypes 17/18 were introduced)
[13:45:55] <Rhys Smith> in line
[13:47:03] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> mic: I believe Sam was incorrect when he said short plaintext would be
treated as CBC; instead, ivec bits would be used to do CTS.
[13:47:05] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Thanks, Rhys.
[13:47:33] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I am confused about what Sam is saying there was list consensus on.
[13:47:53] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I think I'm unconfused now.
[13:48:08] <Rhys Smith> :)
[13:48:16] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I believe Sam is saying we had list consensus on the separate case for
short plaintexts that did CTS from the ivec.
[13:49:11] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I don't think we have any good way to use CTR mode in Kerberos.
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[13:50:19] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> mic: Can Sam clarify the concerns about ciphertext expansion for RFC
3962?
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[13:50:46] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Kelley's proposal already adds more expansion than 3962 does.
[13:50:49] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> (Aside: The rxgk security class for the Rx protocol (AFS) uses a raw RFC3961
crypto library)
[13:53:05] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Huh.  We were unable to find records of discussion about that for
3962.
[13:53:40] <tlyu> mic: what specific concrete facts did we consider about the padding issue back around RFC 3962?
[13:53:44] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Given that the IETF workflow claims that everything is supposed to
happen on the list, that's quite disappointing.
[13:55:21] <tlyu> mic: i assert that we don't understand the previous assumptions about implementations problems with padding, and we don't have sufficient documentation that they remain current concerns
[13:55:26] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I already spent several hours trawling the ietf-krb-wg archives for
information relating to the issues as considered for rfc3962.
[13:56:45] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> My position is that people raised vague concerns, and we thought we
had relatively simple ways of addressing them even if they were
vague.  For Kelley's draft, it turns out not to be simple enough.
[13:57:03] <tlyu> mic: the claims were that problems would happen for Microsoft, and someone from Microsoft said it shouldn't be a problem
[13:57:05] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Would be happy to hear Sam's recollections on-list.
[13:59:18] <Rhys Smith> slide 14: kerb iana registries
[14:00:09] <sftcd> chairs: did anyone review this, any outstanding issues?
[14:00:09] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> Have not read iana registries -02 yet, it's on the list
[14:00:30] <tlyu> no outstanding issues that i'm aware of, except initial values (which i need to continue working on)
[14:01:23] <sftcd> @tlyu: chairs asking when an update might appear they can wglc
[14:01:29] <tlyu> not sure about timing at this point; would like some help with the initial values
[14:02:37] <sftcd> sam said he'd help with it if its not in nroff
[14:02:41] <tlyu> it's not in nroff; it's actually in a sqlite3 database
[14:02:48] <sftcd> :-)
[14:03:00] <Rhys Smith> slide 15: new drafts
[14:04:11] <kaduk@mit.edu/barnowl> I only skimmed generic-naming attributes, my general sense was that it
felt short, and did not give the reader full confidence that the
truly generic nature of what is desired from naming, was understood.
[14:04:56] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Felt short, not fell short
[14:05:52] <Rhys Smith> sorry! clarified
[14:05:53] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> I have some interop bug notes if that's appropriate.
[14:05:59] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Oops, I don't type fast enough.
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[14:06:45] <Rhys Smith> greg: sam suggested send to the list, if you didn't get that
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[14:06:49] <ghudson@mit.edu/barnowl> Okay.
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