IETF
LEDGER
ledger@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, July 21, 2016< ^ >
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
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[14:18:55] <Andrew Sullivan> I can't tell if someone volunteered to be Jabber scribe
[14:18:58] <Andrew Sullivan> if not, I will
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[14:19:50] <Alice Mahoney> Andrew: Thanks!
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[14:20:53] m&m has set the subject to: ITF 96 ledger bof https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda/ledger/
[14:20:59] <Andrew Sullivan> starting
[14:21:28] <Andrew Sullivan> Note Well
[14:21:53] <Andrew Sullivan> If you have things to say at the mic, please say MIC or I won't notice
[14:21:59] <Andrew Sullivan> Agenda
[14:22:18] <Alice Mahoney> I'm using Meetecho, so I should be able to get into the queue unless things go wonky.
[14:22:34] <Andrew Sullivan> Non-Goals
[14:22:42] <Andrew Sullivan> Note: not WG forming
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[14:23:24] <Andrew Sullivan> Goals
[14:23:56] <Sean Turner> quic :)
[14:24:07] <Alice Mahoney> lots of slides to go through :-)
[14:24:10] <Andrew Sullivan> INTERLEDGER
[14:24:14] <Andrew Sullivan> Agenda/2
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[14:24:39] <Andrew Sullivan> Background/3
[14:24:45] <Andrew Sullivan> 4
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[14:26:15] <Andrew Sullivan> 5
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[14:28:59] <Andrew Sullivan> 6
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[14:30:12] <Andrew Sullivan> Agenda #2
[14:30:22] <Andrew Sullivan> 8
[14:30:58] <Andrew Sullivan> 11
[14:31:09] <Andrew Sullivan> never agree one ledger.  ah.  12
[14:31:27] <Andrew Sullivan> (page numbers in red not so great for ref-green colour blind guy)
[14:31:29] <Andrew Sullivan> 13
[14:31:47] <Sean Turner> 22 of 174 :)
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[14:31:55] <Andrew Sullivan> 16 :)
[14:32:02] <Andrew Sullivan> it is moving fast
[14:32:08] <m&m> you were warned
[14:32:13] <Andrew Sullivan> 17
[14:32:28] <Andrew Sullivan> I've been warned for years.  I still agreed to be on the IAB
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[14:36:23] <Andrew Sullivan> 44
[14:36:25] <Andrew Sullivan> 4
[14:36:27] <DanYork> Andrew Sullivan: Hmmm... those things in the ILP packet looks a lot like a domain name, eh?
[14:36:27] <Andrew Sullivan> 45
[14:36:28] <Andrew Sullivan> 46
[14:36:35] <Andrew Sullivan> yes
[14:36:37] <Andrew Sullivan> 47
[14:36:42] <Andrew Sullivan> 46 again
[14:36:51] <Andrew Sullivan> 47
[14:36:57] <Andrew Sullivan> 48
[14:37:02] <JeffH> 2-phase commit ?
[14:37:08] <Andrew Sullivan> not quite
[14:37:12] <Andrew Sullivan> but similar, yes
[14:37:18] <Andrew Sullivan> 49
[14:37:27] <Andrew Sullivan> 50
[14:37:32] <Andrew Sullivan> 51
[14:37:41] <Andrew Sullivan> Stephane (sp?) now
[14:37:52] <Andrew Sullivan> clarification question, no name
[14:38:16] <Andrew Sullivan> 52
[14:38:22] <bergau> yaron sheffer
[14:38:44] <DanYork> Ah... so it's a *backwards* domain name.
[14:38:52] <Andrew Sullivan> maybe
[14:38:57] <Andrew Sullivan> 53
[14:39:14] <Andrew Sullivan> also, worth recalling that "routing number" is a thing in banking, not just networking
[14:39:24] <Andrew Sullivan> 52 again
[14:39:46] <Andrew Sullivan> 54
[14:39:53] <Andrew Sullivan> 55
[14:39:58] Simon Pietro Romano joins the room
[14:39:58] <Andrew Sullivan> connie the connector.
[14:40:02] <DanYork> :-)
[14:40:03] <Andrew Sullivan> 56
[14:40:07] <Andrew Sullivan> 55
[14:41:09] <Andrew Sullivan> 56
[14:41:27] <Andrew Sullivan> 57
[14:41:40] <Sean Turner> :)
[14:41:55] Ned Freed joins the room
[14:42:05] <Andrew Sullivan> I sincerely hope we don't rat-hole on the appropriateness of the analogy
[14:42:12] <Andrew Sullivan> it's not tight, but it's not terrible
[14:42:15] <Andrew Sullivan> 58
[14:42:32] <Andrew Sullivan> 59
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[14:43:08] <Andrew Sullivan> 62
[14:43:30] <Andrew Sullivan> 63
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[14:44:07] <Andrew Sullivan> 64
[14:44:16] <Andrew Sullivan> 65
[14:44:22] <Andrew Sullivan> 66
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[14:44:32] <DanYork> Andrew Sullivan: Which analogy?  (Re: I sincerely hope we don't rat-hole on the appropriateness of the analogy)
[14:44:34] <Andrew Sullivan> 67
[14:44:36] <Andrew Sullivan> 68
[14:44:44] <Andrew Sullivan> 69
[14:44:49] <Andrew Sullivan> with BGP
[14:44:54] <Andrew Sullivan> 70
[14:45:13] <Andrew Sullivan> the mic lines already
[14:45:18] <Andrew Sullivan> 71
[14:45:18] Ned Freed_6074 leaves the room
[14:45:33] <Andrew Sullivan> Eric Rescorla.  Also, nobody is saying their name
[14:45:40] <Sean Turner> ekr went first
[14:45:51] <Andrew Sullivan> and I can't type, so I won't look up, and your name will not be in the record and you'll be evil
[14:46:11] <Sean Turner> and kittens will die
[14:48:10] <Andrew Sullivan> now the chairs are not saying their names, but that's Adam.  Now Evan responding, and ekr asking again
[14:48:48] <Andrew Sullivan> maybe all this name-saying is less important with Meetecho because video?
[14:49:24] <Andrew Sullivan> Alain Durand asking clarifying question
[14:49:44] <Andrew Sullivan> slide 53 and about namespace
[14:49:48] <Alice Mahoney> Andrew: Meetecho is not showing the speaker queue yet
[14:49:53] <Alice Mahoney> just speakers
[14:49:57] <Alice Mahoney> but I know must of the voices
[14:50:01] <Alice Mahoney> most
[14:50:26] rsalz joins the room
[14:50:36] <Meetecho> Alice, Andrew: if you want we can point the webcam to the speakers now
[14:50:45] <Meetecho> especially if that's where the discussion is happening right now
[14:50:52] <Alice Mahoney> meetecho: yes
[14:50:53] <Andrew Sullivan> wow, I didn't understand this from the draft, but that name thing sure seems weak
[14:52:18] Justin Richer_4401 leaves the room
[14:52:27] <Meetecho> obviously the controls decide to act crazy exactly when we need them...
[14:52:28] <Andrew Sullivan> Alain is no longer exactly asking a clarifying question :)
[14:52:49] <Andrew Sullivan> Adam extracting from weeds
[14:52:50] <rsalz> I like that the agents moving forward carry the risk, not the counter-parties.
[14:53:11] <Andrew Sullivan> Dan Completely unintelligible.
[14:53:52] <m&m> Dan Druta
[14:53:53] <Alissa Cooper> Dan Druta
[14:54:42] <Andrew Sullivan> Jason Nichols
[14:56:12] <Andrew Sullivan> Cullen Jennings
[14:58:54] <Andrew Sullivan> mic line closed
[14:59:35] <m&m> … unless you pay the chairs (j/k)
[14:59:44] <Andrew Sullivan> Noname
[14:59:59] <m&m> Jason Nichols, I believe
[15:00:13] <rsalz> yes, i read his tag
[15:00:21] <Andrew Sullivan> I believe too :)
[15:00:43] <Andrew Sullivan> Stephen (sp?) Wright
[15:02:54] <DanYork> "we anticipate many heated debates about what goes in there"
[15:02:58] <Andrew Sullivan> Andrew TooFastToUnderstand
[15:03:10] <Alice Mahoney> Andrew Allen
[15:03:25] <Andrew Sullivan> I sat in the worst place in the room to do this, because I can't see people well enough.  I don't recognise enough people from the back o ftheir head
[15:04:01] <Andrew Sullivan> There are 18 more slides!
[15:04:04] <rsalz> there is a chair saved for you right near the mic.  it says 'reserved for jabber scribe'
[15:04:06] <Andrew Sullivan> 74
[15:04:17] <Andrew Sullivan> I didn't know in time, and I'd have to move :)
[15:04:34] <Andrew Sullivan> 76
[15:04:39] <rsalz> sure, put yourself ahead of the whole jabber room.
[15:04:41] <Andrew Sullivan> I might move in the gap
[15:04:41] <rsalz> :)
[15:04:49] <Andrew Sullivan> 78
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[15:06:20] <Andrew Sullivan> 82
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[15:06:34] <Andrew Sullivan> 83
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[15:07:38] <Andrew Sullivan> 89
[15:07:54] <Andrew Sullivan> ekr at mic again.  Even I can recognise him from behind
[15:09:16] <Andrew Sullivan> Stefan on crypto condidion
[15:09:18] <Andrew Sullivan> s
[15:09:24] <Andrew Sullivan> conditions even
[15:09:28] <Andrew Sullivan> slide 2
[15:09:51] <Andrew Sullivan> 3
[15:10:07] <Andrew Sullivan> crypto illustration
[15:10:12] <Andrew Sullivan> 5
[15:10:27] <Andrew Sullivan> 6
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[15:15:07] <Andrew Sullivan> 19
[15:15:30] <Andrew Sullivan> 20
[15:15:53] <Andrew Sullivan> not sure whether this is the first time the UN has been used explicitly as motivation for IETF wor
[15:15:53] <Andrew Sullivan> k
[15:15:56] <Andrew Sullivan> 24
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[15:16:35] <Andrew Sullivan> 29
[15:16:52] <Andrew Sullivan> a nifty thing about this proposal is that it reuses a bunch of terminology both from routing and DNS
[15:16:58] <Andrew Sullivan> 30
[15:17:07] <Andrew Sullivan> we should have no confusion as a result :)
[15:17:11] <Alice Mahoney> heh
[15:17:26] <Andrew Sullivan> 31
[15:17:30] <Andrew Sullivan> 32
[15:17:33] <Sean Turner> we'll just make new hats to wear
[15:17:47] <Andrew Sullivan> we can have red and green hats
[15:17:49] <Andrew Sullivan> same shape
[15:17:50] Kevin Ma joins the room
[15:17:50] <Andrew Sullivan> 33
[15:17:55] <Andrew Sullivan> should cause no problems
[15:18:11] <Andrew Sullivan> 34
[15:18:36] <DanYork> Yes, Andrew Sullivan, no problems at all....  :-(
[15:19:02] <Andrew Sullivan> 35
[15:19:36] <Andrew Sullivan> 36
[15:19:41] <Andrew Sullivan> 38
[15:19:45] <Andrew Sullivan> 39 40 41
[15:19:46] <Andrew Sullivan> 42
[15:20:07] <Andrew Sullivan> 43
[15:20:24] <Andrew Sullivan> 44
[15:20:28] <Andrew Sullivan> 46
[15:20:31] <Andrew Sullivan> 47
[15:20:47] <Andrew Sullivan> zoom 53
[15:20:51] <Andrew Sullivan> 54
[15:21:32] <rsalz> this is kinda neat.
[15:21:37] <Andrew Sullivan> 55
[15:21:40] <Andrew Sullivan> slipping
[15:21:43] <Andrew Sullivan> 61
[15:21:47] <Andrew Sullivan> skipping, even
[15:22:32] <Andrew Sullivan> 63
[15:23:12] <Andrew Sullivan> 64
[15:23:15] <sftcd> how long is it since someone turned up with a new protocol defined in ASN.1?
[15:23:27] <Andrew Sullivan> I couldn't understand any of that name
[15:23:32] <Andrew Sullivan> too garbled
[15:23:53] <Andrew Sullivan> Yaron
[15:23:57] <Alissa Cooper> Jehan Trembak
[15:24:07] <rsalz> Yaron Shaffer
[15:24:10] <Andrew Sullivan> Shaffer
[15:24:12] <Andrew Sullivan> yes
[15:24:14] <Andrew Sullivan> thanks
[15:24:18] <Andrew Sullivan> distracted
[15:27:41] <m&m> That's Evan Schwartz
[15:27:44] <Andrew Sullivan> Evan back at mic
[15:27:48] <Andrew Sullivan> from floor
[15:28:47] <DanYork> ? at mic
[15:28:58] <Andrew Sullivan> Kenny Patterson
[15:29:00] <Alissa Cooper> Kenny Patterson
[15:29:35] <Andrew Sullivan> (previous question was meta with no name, but also all meta so not so important)
[15:30:01] <m&m> Rich Salz
[15:30:06] <Andrew Sullivan> Rich Sal
[15:30:07] <Andrew Sullivan> z
[15:30:16] <Andrew Sullivan> also, now I'm late :)
[15:30:46] <Andrew Sullivan> Richard Barnes
[15:31:44] <Andrew Sullivan> ekr not at mic
[15:31:49] <Andrew Sullivan> now at mic
[15:32:03] <Andrew Sullivan> (that's Eric Rescorla, for people unused to the short form)
[15:33:14] <Andrew Sullivan> Someone was going to commentand I can't see who
[15:33:22] <Alissa Cooper> Adrian Hope-Bailie
[15:33:42] <Andrew Sullivan> Man, apparently I need new glasses
[15:33:58] <Andrew Sullivan> This has been an educational session, but not in the ways I expected
[15:34:12] <Andrew Sullivan> Richard Barnes again
[15:34:15] <DanYork> Indeed
[15:34:25] <m&m> he's a new attendee, so your recognition algorithm hasn't kicked in yet
[15:34:42] <Andrew Sullivan> But I actually know his face from another context :)
[15:35:10] <sftcd> don't they need to know exactly what PKI is being used to do the validation of signatures in the middle?
[15:35:16] <Alissa Cooper> Thomas Daede
[15:35:20] <Andrew Sullivan> Thomas Daede
[15:35:34] <Andrew Sullivan> or, Daede-Mozilla, as spoken :)
[15:36:33] <rsalz> @sftcd yes, i think that's the concern kenny (and I) have.  right now it's "and then a miracle happens" before you do something.
[15:37:02] <Andrew Sullivan> Next up
[15:37:17] <Andrew Sullivan> Dmitri De Jonghe
[15:37:22] <Andrew Sullivan> Weaving ILP fabric
[15:37:26] <Andrew Sullivan> 2
[15:38:09] <Andrew Sullivan> 3.  I'm not sure that in this audience saying "wanted to be like big data" is a way to motivate
[15:38:19] <Andrew Sullivan> 4
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[15:42:21] <Andrew Sullivan> 9
[15:42:24] <Andrew Sullivan> 10
[15:42:27] <Andrew Sullivan> done
[15:42:32] <Andrew Sullivan> open mic
[15:43:53] <Andrew Sullivan> Dan Druze again
[15:44:08] <Alissa Cooper> Druta
[15:44:18] <Andrew Sullivan> Thanks
[15:45:17] <Andrew Sullivan> Jason Nichols
[15:47:25] <Andrew Sullivan> Mike Bierma (?)
[15:49:17] bergtau joins the room
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[15:49:33] <Andrew Sullivan> Rich Salz
[15:51:11] <rsalz> Dave Crocker talking
[15:51:14] <Andrew Sullivan> Dave Crocker at mic
[15:51:19] <Andrew Sullivan> me next
[15:54:17] <Andrew Sullivan> "called payoff" from floor
[15:55:43] <Andrew Sullivan> Eric Rescorla at mic
[15:55:51] <Andrew Sullivan> Pretending to be DaVe
[15:55:52] <Andrew Sullivan> Dave
[15:57:14] p m leaves the room
[15:57:21] <Andrew Sullivan> ekr gets points for working "passel" into his mic remarks
[15:57:38] <Andrew Sullivan> Jason Nichols
[15:58:28] <Andrew Sullivan> Dan York
[16:04:46] Nick Sullivan joins the room
[16:05:25] <Andrew Sullivan> Jari Arkko
[16:07:50] <Andrew Sullivan> We're not that mean!  I swear!  We can be nice!
[16:07:56] <sftcd> which we?
[16:07:58] <Andrew Sullivan> Richard Barnes
[16:08:11] <Andrew Sullivan> Even you can be nice to newbies, Stephen
[16:08:32] sftcd is always nice
[16:09:59] <DanYork> And I'm not sure that I said NOT to do it like a domain name... just more saying "there be dragons" and to understand the potential issues with making that choice.  ;-)
[16:10:39] <sftcd> if this stuff does need multisignatures, then I think they maybe ought invent their own new pki that uses multisignatures as well (whether done here or elsewhere)
[16:10:46] <Andrew Sullivan> Dave Crocker
[16:10:48] <rsalz> I'll say it.  DO NOT make it look like a domain name.  
[16:12:20] <DanYork> rsalz: :-)
[16:12:57] <m&m> so that means rsalz is signed up to help with the work
[16:12:59] <m&m> (-:
[16:13:12] <rsalz> i just did.  nothing more needed.
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[16:13:24] <Andrew Sullivan> mic lines closing
[16:13:47] Valery Smyslov leaves the room
[16:14:01] <Andrew Sullivan> Jason Nichols
[16:14:21] <m&m> apps-discuss@ietf.org / https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss
[16:14:22] <DanYork> rsalz: Or if you do make it look like a domain name... do the resolution in the traditional left-to-right DNS way and stick this all under some TLD so there is no collision...
[16:14:40] <rsalz> there was a very good talk at RSA16 about browsers taking things *like* domains and going horribly wrong.
[16:14:44] <Andrew Sullivan> Don't think the "all under some domain" will work.  Too centralized
[16:14:47] <rsalz> I can' t find it now.
[16:14:55] <DanYork> Andrew Sullivan: True
[16:14:57] <Andrew Sullivan> the distributed naming is an essential feature
[16:15:05] <Andrew Sullivan> Ekr again.
[16:15:07] <DanYork> That's true
[16:15:15] <Andrew Sullivan> Sorry, Eric Rescorla
[16:15:57] <Andrew Sullivan> Thomas Daede
[16:16:23] <DanYork> Yes... I can tell it's Thursday and I'm tired... I'd revise my comment above if my brain could function well.  
[16:16:46] <DanYork> rsalz: Yes, there have been no end of such collision discussions in ICANN venues
[16:16:47] <Andrew Sullivan> Yaron Shaffer
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[16:18:29] <Andrew Sullivan> Alissa Cooper at the mic as AD
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[16:19:36] <Alice Mahoney> Andrew: thanks for scribing!
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