IETF
LISP
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Monday, 25 July 2011< ^ >
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[16:54:54] <Carlos Martinez> Good afternoon everyone!
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[17:01:13] <Carlos Martinez> I will be your jabber operator today for the LISP session
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[17:01:48] <Carlos Martinez> Terry Manderson now presenting the "usual" stuff
[17:01:52] <Carlos Martinez> now for agenda bashing
[17:02:20] <Carlos Martinez> no changes to agenda introduced
[17:02:49] adrianfarrel joins the room
[17:02:49] <Carlos Martinez> 7 drafts in last-call
[17:03:45] <Carlos Martinez> now Gerald ? presenting for the authors of draft-ietf-lisp-mib
[17:04:08] <jpc> darrel
[17:04:21] <Carlos Martinez> thanks jpc :)
[17:04:25] <ljakab> is there a problem with audio, or is the format just not Linux friendly?
[17:04:27] <jpc> :)
[17:04:43] <ljakab> I hear some "out of space" kind of noise
[17:05:09] <jpc> in macos+vlc sounds ok
[17:05:30] 存史 松本 joins the room
[17:05:35] <Carlos Martinez> Now presenting LISP EID Block, Luigi Iannone
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[17:06:22] <Carlos Martinez> Luigi going over main changes to draft eid-block
[17:06:52] <Carlos Martinez> Rationale and Intent (slide 3)
[17:07:28] <Carlos Martinez> Expected use (slide 4)
[17:07:37] brian.bnsmith joins the room
[17:08:35] <Carlos Martinez> now going over Action Plan (slide 5)
[17:09:14] <Carlos Martinez> Luigi on how big should be the block the wg asks IANA for?
[17:09:39] <Carlos Martinez> Andino on open mic: Should implementations check for /12 or /16?
[17:09:57] <Carlos Martinez> Now on Routing Considerations (slide 6)
[17:10:06] Stewart Bryant joins the room
[17:11:05] <Carlos Martinez> Modifications to IANA considerations section (slide 7)
[17:11:25] <Carlos Martinez> Next Steps (slide 8)
[17:11:29] <Carlos Martinez> is /12 ok or not ?
[17:11:36] <Carlos Martinez> is anything missing in the draft ?
[17:11:52] <Carlos Martinez> Further reviews from the WG ?
[17:11:56] <Carlos Martinez> Any comments or questions ?
[17:12:33] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: whether the not hard coding should be a MUST in the text
[17:15:27] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: regarding the size of the block, the draft is missing a rationale for the size of the block, why do we need slash-whatever ?
[17:17:03] <Carlos Martinez> Luigi comments on the reservation being asked to IANA
[17:18:22] <Carlos Martinez> Luigi: there are no calculations at this point about the sizing of the block
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[17:19:11] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: it would be a good idea to properly justify the need for an allocation of a certain size
[17:19:42] <Carlos Martinez> Terry: we'll take this to the ML so a more solid rationale for prefix length can be introduced in the text
[17:20:36] <Carlos Martinez> Now to the next step in the agenda
[17:21:01] <Carlos Martinez> Vina Ermagan with draft-ietf-lisp-sec-00
[17:21:12] <Carlos Martinez> List of changes to the draft (slide 2)
[17:21:17] <Carlos Martinez> clarified scope
[17:21:20] <Carlos Martinez> record count for EID
[17:21:22] <Carlos Martinez> scope
[17:21:26] <Carlos Martinez> map-reply record validation
[17:21:31] <Carlos Martinez> pitr processing
[17:21:36] <Carlos Martinez> terminology
[17:22:05] <Carlos Martinez> ECM Auth Data slide
[17:22:13] <Carlos Martinez> Map-Reply auth data slide
[17:22:48] <Carlos Martinez> Scope of PKT-HMAC to include the entire map-reply packet
[17:23:30] <Carlos Martinez> Map-Reply record validation
[17:24:02] <Carlos Martinez> PITR processing
[17:24:26] <Carlos Martinez> MS and ETR co-location
[17:24:48] <Carlos Martinez> Minor terminology changes:
[17:24:54] <Carlos Martinez> OTK -> itr-otk
[17:24:59] <Carlos Martinez> etr-otr -> ms-otk
[17:25:03] <Carlos Martinez> loc-ad -> pkt-ad
[17:25:13] <Carlos Martinez> slides end
[17:25:22] <Carlos Martinez> any comments or question from the jabber room ?
[17:25:51] <Carlos Martinez> now to the next item in the agenda
[17:26:21] <Carlos Martinez> Damien Saucez with draft-iet-flisp-threats
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[17:26:30] <Carlos Martinez> Main changes (slide 2)
[17:26:40] <Carlos Martinez> added new threats
[17:26:46] <Carlos Martinez> added filtering recommendations
[17:27:11] <Carlos Martinez> New threats:
[17:27:25] <Carlos Martinez> - forging instance id to access eid that shouldn't be accesible
[17:27:36] <Carlos Martinez> - map server: danger of key sharing
[17:27:43] <Carlos Martinez> - ms: registration of invalid RLOC
[17:27:51] <Carlos Martinez> - registration of invalid EID prefix
[17:28:04] <Carlos Martinez> map-resolver:
[17:29:54] <Carlos Martinez> - MR can become relay attack node
[17:29:58] <Carlos Martinez> - cache poisoning
[17:30:34] <Carlos Martinez> Now on to Next Steps (slide 4)
[17:30:42] <Carlos Martinez> negative mapping entreis discussion
[17:30:53] <Carlos Martinez> tried to document all categories agains LISP, any other ?
[17:31:06] <Carlos Martinez> Now on to Negative Mapping Entries (slide 5)
[17:31:28] <Carlos Martinez> Negative mapping: inform about destination IP prefixes that are not EIDs
[17:32:16] <Carlos Martinez> Slide 6
[17:32:29] <Carlos Martinez> Negative mapping is more general than security, it has to do with cache management
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[17:32:52] <Carlos Martinez> [the slide shows text to be addded to the draft]
[17:33:16] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: text is a little bit misleading, proposes change
[17:33:32] <Carlos Martinez> Proposed solutions:
[17:33:38] <Carlos Martinez> - overlapping mappings
[17:33:45] <Carlos Martinez> - distributed encapsulation via proxies
[17:33:49] <Carlos Martinez> - cache segmentation
[17:34:13] <Carlos Martinez> Any comments from the jabber room ?
[17:35:12] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: negative caching highlight the issue of cache management, it's more general and valid for any caching system
[17:35:31] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: we should encourage implementations to properly manage their caches
[17:36:17] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: the concerns of attacks on the cache keep coming over and over again and we keep suggesting solutions based on implementation tricks
[17:37:10] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: we should document the approaches proposed
[17:37:24] <Carlos Martinez> Terry: should we include this in the deployment draft ?
[17:37:42] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: maybe the interoperability draft would be better, and use that to document the approaches
[17:38:00] <Carlos Martinez> Damien: cache management is more than interoperability
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[17:39:14] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: cache management is not implemented anywhere, and I like it this way so new implementors can bring up new ideas on how to do it. We could, however, provide some hints on how to do cache management properly
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[17:40:51] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: we've discussed cache trashing in the past and the fact that we lack enough experience to say how to do it properly
[17:42:15] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: we should do an interoperability testing and we should document that
[17:43:34] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: what is the text that we should add? there is already text saying that cache management is an issue
[17:43:57] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: there are several pieces of text regarding cache mgmt vulnerabilities
[17:44:07] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: what should we ask from the authors ?
[17:45:03] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: speaker describes another possible DoS scenario
[17:45:32] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: if the main spec recognizes this as an open issue, then fundamentally the text is fine
[17:46:09] <Carlos Martinez> Terry: i don't believe the main spec is the place for this, another document will be probably be created
[17:46:40] <Carlos Martinez> Joel cites text from the documents where the cache management issue is flagged as a problem
[17:48:49] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: i would like to see a description of the trivial attacks against the attacks, and then in other document we could provide solutions for these attacks. Do not focus only on cache management but on all other seemingly trivial attacks have been identified
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[17:50:19] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: concerning the implementation of the different types of attacks: maybe it is not a good idea to go too much into details as in a couple of weeks someone can come up with a different way of implementing the *same* attack
[17:50:39] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: we need to provide enough detail so people understand the nature of the attack
[17:50:52] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: we do not need to document every possible way of performing a cache trashing
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[17:51:34] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: let's look at how BGP has been documented, and where documents describe attacks
[17:51:38] <Carlos Martinez> [laughs :-) ]
[17:52:40] <Carlos Martinez> NOw to the next topic in the agenda
[17:52:45] <Carlos Martinez> Darrel Lewis
[17:53:16] <Carlos Martinez> draft lisp deployment
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[17:53:54] <Carlos Martinez> Proxy ITR reqs (slide 3)
[17:54:24] <Carlos Martinez> [these slides have been added to tools.ietf.org a few minutes ago]
[17:56:19] <Carlos Martinez> eid-route server
[17:56:21] <Carlos Martinez> eid-route
[17:56:26] <Carlos Martinez> (slide 5)
[17:58:01] <Carlos Martinez> slide 7 now, diagram of BGP route servers used to propagate eid-routes to remote proxies
[17:59:16] <Carlos Martinez> Proxy ITR route origination (slide 8)
[17:59:42] <Carlos Martinez> - docoupling eid origination and propagation benefits
[17:59:49] <Carlos Martinez> Slides end
[17:59:55] <Carlos Martinez> Questions from the room ?
[18:00:06] <Carlos Martinez> Joel: how close do you think we are to last call ?
[18:00:32] <Carlos Martinez> Now to the last agenda item
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[18:00:49] <Carlos Martinez> The main documents have been discussed
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[18:01:01] <Carlos Martinez> Terry : what are we going to do with the LISP wg ?
[18:01:25] <Carlos Martinez> [this will be an open discussion, comments from the jabber room are welcome]
[18:01:45] <Carlos Martinez> the mic is now open
[18:02:18] <Carlos Martinez> Open mic: a new charter item has already been proposed and summarized by Joel
[18:03:23] <Carlos Martinez> Terry: it looks like there is no momentum to re-charter the wg
[18:03:29] <Carlos Martinez> we'll take this to the ML
[18:03:37] <Carlos Martinez> This closes the LISP session for today
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[18:03:42] <Carlos Martinez> Thank you very much
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