IETF
mmusic
mmusic@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, July 31, 2013< ^ >
oej (Jabber scribe) has set the subject to: mmusic (Agenda: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mmusic/agenda )
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[10:55:31] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: MMUSIC @ IETF 87
[10:56:05] AA joins the room
[10:59:17] <Simon Romano> Presentation stopped
[10:59:20] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
[10:59:33] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: MMUSIC @ IETF 87
[10:59:38] <Simon Romano> Current presenter: Chairs
[10:59:39] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: MMUSIC @ IETF 87
[11:00:35] <Simon Romano> Slide 2: Note Well
[11:01:04] <Simon Romano> Slide 3: Administrativia
[11:01:06] hardie@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[11:01:24] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[11:01:35] Olle E. Johansson joins the room
[11:01:37] <Simon Romano> Slide 4: Agenda Overview - Tuesday
[11:01:47] <Olle E. Johansson> Good afternoon, I'll be your jabber scribe.
[11:01:51] Tobias joins the room
[11:01:52] <Simon Romano> Slide 17: Agenda Overview - Wednesday
[11:01:58] <Olle E. Johansson> Do we have any remote participants in the chat room?
[11:02:27] <Simon Romano> Presentation stopped
[11:02:46] <Lorenzo Miniero> FYI, a Meetecho room is available for this session: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf87/mmusic
[11:02:47] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: Bundle -04
[11:03:02] <Simon Romano> Current presenter: C. Holmberg
[11:03:03] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: Bundle -04
[11:04:10] <Simon Romano> Slide 2: (1) MAJOR CHANGES
[11:05:05] <Simon Romano> Slide 3: (2) EXAMPLE
[11:05:08] <Olle E. Johansson> The room is filling up slowly.
[11:06:04] <Olle E. Johansson> If you want me to say anything on the mike just prefix with "mic:" - thanks.
[11:06:06] <Simon Romano> Slide 4: (3) THE QUESTIONS (1/3)
[11:06:49] <Olle E. Johansson> Jonathan Lennox coming up in the mike line
[11:07:09] martin.thomson joins the room
[11:07:48] <Olle E. Johansson> Jonathan speaking
[11:09:09] <Olle E. Johansson> Paul Kyziat in line for speaking (propably miss-peled the last name, sorry
[11:09:12] <Olle E. Johansson> Paul speaking
[11:09:12] Tobias leaves the room
[11:09:25] <Lorenzo Miniero> Kyzivat ;)
[11:09:39] <Olle E. Johansson> Thanks!
[11:09:42] Tom Kristensen joins the room
[11:10:05] <Olle E. Johansson> Mo Zanaty at mic
[11:10:06] stpeter joins the room
[11:10:14] <Olle E. Johansson> Cullen Jennings talking
[11:10:28] <Olle E. Johansson> Martin Thompson at mic soon
[11:10:35] <Olle E. Johansson> Cullen talking
[11:10:50] <Olle E. Johansson> Harald Alvestrand in queue
[11:12:06] <Olle E. Johansson> Jonathan Lennox speaking
[11:12:36] <Olle E. Johansson> Cullen Jennings speaking
[11:13:02] <Olle E. Johansson> Jonathan
[11:13:37] <Olle E. Johansson> Mo speaking
[11:13:44] Kervin Pillay joins the room
[11:14:32] <Olle E. Johansson> Do we have any remote participants in this room?
[11:14:40] Olle E. Johansson is now known as oej (scribe)
[11:14:51] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan answering
[11:14:58] <tomkrist> oej: I'm remote!
[11:15:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> I see a couple on Meetecho
[11:15:04] markus.isomaki joins the room
[11:15:12] <oej (scribe)> Good to know! THanks for your answers.
[11:15:21] <oej (scribe)> Hi Tom!
[11:15:23] <oej (scribe)> :-)
[11:15:38] <tomkrist> Hi  Thanks for scribing names :)
[11:15:52] <oej (scribe)> Mo talking
[11:16:03] <oej (scribe)> Christer
[11:16:26] <oej (scribe)> The room is quite full here.
[11:16:42] <oej (scribe)> Roni Evan soon talking
[11:17:00] <oej (scribe)> Evans
[11:17:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> a whole bundle of people in here!
[11:17:28] <oej (scribe)> he he :-)
[11:17:34] <oej (scribe)> With a lot of different payloads
[11:17:39] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking again
[11:17:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> yep!
[11:17:42] <tomkrist> :) indeed
[11:17:52] <oej (scribe)> Harald finally coming to the mike
[11:18:00] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti talking
[11:18:33] <oej (scribe)> Paul is prepared to talk if needed
[11:18:42] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings
[11:19:06] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti prepared to talk
[11:19:16] <oej (scribe)> That means hovering around the mic
[11:19:21] <oej (scribe)> Cullen talking
[11:19:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Tom are you watching the video? do you want to frame the mic lines as well?
[11:19:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> *want us
[11:19:51] <martin.thomson> plus the major type from the m= line
[11:19:53] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti again
[11:20:11] <Simon Romano> Slide 5: (4) THE QUESTIONS (2/3)
[11:20:58] <tomkrist> Lorenzo: Just the !meetecho audio...
[11:21:33] <martin.thomson> I think that what Justin is suggesting regarding a subset of fmtp implies something about the SDP definition for VP8, and something that would unnecessarily obfuscate the decisions around PT choice
[11:21:34] <oej (scribe)> Eric Rescorla (EKR) hovering over a mic
[11:22:18] <Tom Kristensen> Lorenzo: Meetecho video now, presenter is just fine for me!
[11:22:29] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings, Colin Perkings, Eric Rescorla in line
[11:22:31] <oej (scribe)> Cullen talking
[11:22:37] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok :)
[11:22:52] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti talking
[11:23:06] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings
[11:23:22] <oej (scribe)> Justin again
[11:23:33] <oej (scribe)> Christer
[11:23:55] <oej (scribe)> Colin Perkins
[11:24:33] <oej (scribe)> Christer again
[11:24:56] <oej (scribe)> Colin
[11:26:03] <oej (scribe)> Colin and Christer discussing
[11:26:31] <oej (scribe)> EKR - Eric Rescorla talking.
[11:26:37] <oej (scribe)> Sorry, I can not change the baud rate.
[11:26:40] <oej (scribe)> ;-)
[11:26:45] <Tom Kristensen> ;)
[11:26:49] <Simon Romano> :-)
[11:27:13] <oej (scribe)> Paul
[11:27:56] <Simon Romano> Slide 6: (5) THE QUESTIONS (3/3)
[11:28:04] <Simon Romano> Slide 5: (4) THE QUESTIONS (2/3)
[11:28:04] <oej (scribe)> Colin talking
[11:29:03] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie talked
[11:29:05] <Simon Romano> Slide 6: (5) THE QUESTIONS (3/3)
[11:29:11] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Sorry for not saying my name.
[11:29:52] <Simon Romano> Blame on you!
[11:30:18] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking
[11:30:25] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti hovering
[11:30:42] <oej (scribe)> Apology accepted, Ted. :-)
[11:30:46] wolfgang.beck01@gmail.com joins the room
[11:30:47] <oej (scribe)> Justin talking
[11:31:43] <oej (scribe)> Christer confusing himself and restarting discussion on Q5 and Q6
[11:31:53] <oej (scribe)> Justin talking
[11:32:56] <oej (scribe)> Justin talking again
[11:33:42] <oej (scribe)> Hadriel appearing for the first time in this session - Hadriel Kaplan
[11:33:57] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Let's not go there—Hadriel
[11:34:30] <oej (scribe)> EKR at front mic
[11:34:35] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking
[11:34:55] <oej (scribe)> "You could but you're crazy"
[11:34:58] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings talking
[11:35:26] Dan Wing joins the room
[11:36:18] <oej (scribe)> "Everything on this slide is wrong so let's go to the next slide" - Cullen
[11:36:23] <oej (scribe)> Chair talking
[11:36:35] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan Lennox
[11:36:59] <oej (scribe)> "No you don't have to do the goofy-ness"
[11:37:30] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti
[11:37:57] <oej (scribe)> EKR wants new M-lines
[11:38:05] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings talking
[11:38:25] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking
[11:38:29] Tobias joins the room
[11:39:15] <oej (scribe)> If anyone remote wants me to relay something to the mike, just prefix your statement with "mic:"
[11:39:25] <oej (scribe)> Martin Thomson talking
[11:39:38] <oej (scribe)> A lot of people standing up and hovering around the mics
[11:39:43] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan Lennox talking
[11:39:53] <oej (scribe)> EKR and Ted Hardie in line
[11:40:18] <oej (scribe)> EKR talking
[11:40:32] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking
[11:40:47] <oej (scribe)> Fleming (chair)
[11:42:00] <oej (scribe)> Cullen talking
[11:43:08] <oej (scribe)> the first SDP in an SDP O/A for a dialog needs to have different ports in the m lines
[11:43:20] <oej (scribe)> Chairs wants to hum
[11:43:30] <oej (scribe)> Martin Thomson objects
[11:43:59] <jesup> hu agree
[11:44:29] <oej (scribe)> We need to move on
[11:44:36] <oej (scribe)> Gonzalo (AD) intervened
[11:44:40] <Simon Romano> Presentation stopped
[11:45:18] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: A Unified Plan for SDP Handling!
[11:45:25] <Simon Romano> Current presenter: Adam Roach
[11:45:26] <Simon Romano> Slide 1: A Unified Plan for SDP Handling!
[11:45:36] <oej (scribe)> Fleming (chair) talking
[11:46:46] Steffen Siering joins the room
[11:47:38] <jesup> mic
[11:47:58] <oej (scribe)> ?
[11:48:05] <oej (scribe)> Aha
[11:48:10] <jesup> adam isn't audible
[11:48:15] <oej (scribe)> We fixed audio
[11:48:21] <oej (scribe)> Ok now?
[11:48:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> should be fine now
[11:48:22] <jesup> good
[11:48:28] <Simon Romano> He switched his mic on :-)
[11:48:32] <Simon Romano> Slide 2: Motherhood and Apple Pie!
[11:49:50] <oej (scribe)> non-WebRTC used to be called "legacy" devices
[11:50:17] <Simon Romano> Slide 3: Planks in the Plan!
[11:51:26] <oej (scribe)> The audience seems to want Adam to speak without interruptions, no one at the mikes
[11:52:12] Cullen Jennings joins the room
[11:52:40] <oej (scribe)> Roni Evans queueing up at mic
[11:52:43] <oej (scribe)> Speaking
[11:53:01] <Simon Romano> Even
[11:53:08] <oej (scribe)> Thanks
[11:53:15] <Simon Romano> ;-)
[11:53:25] <oej (scribe)> Roni wants to widen the scope beyond point-to-point architectures
[11:53:31] <oej (scribe)> Bernard Aboba in line
[11:54:15] <oej (scribe)> Bernard bundles five different opinions
[11:54:35] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie in line
[11:54:59] <oej (scribe)> Martin Thomson speaks
[11:55:23] <oej (scribe)> Ted speaks again
[11:55:45] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan Lennox talking
[11:55:53] saghul joins the room
[11:56:10] <oej (scribe)> SDP philosophy avoidance implemented for the session.
[11:56:11] <Simon Romano> Slide 4: MediaStreamTrack? I can’t read your cr
[11:56:24] <Simon Romano> ..azy moon language!
[11:56:42] <Simon Romano> Slide 5: Let’s Point Out The Elephant!
[11:57:01] <oej (scribe)> There's an elephant in the room, but not in the mike line
[11:58:26] <oej (scribe)> There's no way Adam is going to make everyone happy.
[11:58:35] <oej (scribe)> Hmm. Buy coke and beer for us all, Adam.
[11:58:53] <oej (scribe)> SDP philosophy on
[11:58:56] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan speaking
[11:59:01] <oej (scribe)> Bernard aboba in queue
[11:59:12] <oej (scribe)> EKR in queue at mic
[11:59:35] <oej (scribe)> Cullen talks
[11:59:42] <oej (scribe)> EKR talking
[12:00:18] <Simon Romano> Slide 6: M-line == MediaStreamTrack!
[12:00:20] <oej (scribe)> Fleming (chair) wants discussion at end
[12:00:40] <oej (scribe)> Adam back doing presentation
[12:00:42] <Simon Romano> Slide 7: Use of a=ssrc!
[12:02:10] <Simon Romano> Slide 8: Media Correlation!
[12:02:54] <Simon Romano> Slide 9: Correlation of what? I got lost.!
[12:03:06] <oej (scribe)> Christer talking
[12:03:07] <Simon Romano> Slide 8: Media Correlation!
[12:03:13] <Simon Romano> Slide 9: Correlation of what? I got lost.!
[12:03:33] <Simon Romano> Slide 10: Port Use Reduction!
[12:04:12] <Simon Romano> Slide 11: Bundle-Only Example!
[12:04:29] <Simon Romano> Slide 12: Open Issue: Default Behavior for “Bund
[12:04:41] <Simon Romano> Slide 13: Glare Reduction!
[12:05:14] <Simon Romano> Slide 14: Glare Reduction: Partial Offer/ Partial
[12:05:54] <wolfgang.beck01@gmail.com> yuck
[12:05:57] <oej (scribe)> Roni Even at mic
[12:06:13] danyork leaves the room
[12:06:31] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> @wolfgang they are not religious on this solution, just that the glare get handled.  I suggested a different approach, as did Paul.
[12:06:42] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> So don't get too hung up on this approach.
[12:06:51] <oej (scribe)> Adam clarified that when he started
[12:06:54] <oej (scribe)> :-)
[12:07:34] <oej (scribe)> Roni discusses that the offer is "how we want to receive" and this offer includes what we want to send.
[12:09:15] <oej (scribe)> Martin Thomson speaking
[12:09:34] danyork joins the room
[12:09:43] Tobias leaves the room
[12:09:58] <Simon Romano> Slide 15: SDP Attribute Handling!
[12:10:04] <Simon Romano> Slide 14: Glare Reduction: Partial Offer/ Partial
[12:10:09] <oej (scribe)> <someone> speaking
[12:10:19] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Uwe speaking
[12:10:31] <hardie@jabber.psg.com> Uwe Rauschenbach
[12:10:39] <oej (scribe)> Christer Holmberg speaking
[12:11:07] <Simon Romano> Slide 15: SDP Attribute Handling!
[12:11:29] <Simon Romano> Slide 16: RTX, FEC, Simulcast, and Layered Coding!
[12:13:21] <Simon Romano> Slide 17: Simulcast Example!
[12:13:55] <oej (scribe)> We have all confirmed that we see colors on the screen
[12:13:57] hardie@jabber.psg.com leaves the room
[12:14:03] <oej (scribe)> Roni Even on mic
[12:14:52] <oej (scribe)> Bernard Aboba talking
[12:15:02] <oej (scribe)> Cancelled by Fleming
[12:15:09] <Simon Romano> Slide 18: Simulcast Handling!
[12:16:07] <oej (scribe)> Three-way-handshakes in O/A !
[12:16:09] <Simon Romano> Slide 19: Simulcast Example w/FEC!
[12:17:03] <Simon Romano> Slide 20: Simulcast Example w/RTX!
[12:17:07] <Simon Romano> Slide 21: “Handshaking”!
[12:17:19] <oej (scribe)> Colin Perkins talking
[12:18:07] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings talking
[12:18:10] <oej (scribe)> talked
[12:18:15] <oej (scribe)> Adam back in control
[12:19:27] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan approaching the mic
[12:19:40] <oej (scribe)> Robert Sparks in queue
[12:19:56] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan talking
[12:20:28] hardie@jabber.psg.com joins the room
[12:21:06] <Simon Romano> Slide 22: “Handshaking”!
[12:22:03] Tobias joins the room
[12:22:18] <Simon Romano> Slide 23: Matching RTP Streams to m-lines!
[12:23:54] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan moving to mic
[12:24:01] <oej (scribe)> Colin Perkins speaking
[12:24:29] <oej (scribe)> Jonathan speaking
[12:26:03] <oej (scribe)> Justin Uberti
[12:26:52] <Simon Romano> Slide 24: Matching RTP Streams to mlines: RTP Head
[12:27:18] <oej (scribe)> 35 minutes left of the session
[12:27:32] <Simon Romano> Slide 25: Matching RTP Streams to mlines: Unique P
[12:28:37] <Simon Romano> Slide 26: Matching RTP Streams to mlines: Unique P
[12:28:53] <Simon Romano> Slide 27: Open Issue: What PTs are Okay?!
[12:29:19] <Simon Romano> Slide 26: Matching RTP Streams to mlines: Unique P
[12:29:37] pm joins the room
[12:29:54] <oej (scribe)> Christer was speaking
[12:30:02] <oej (scribe)> Gonzalo talking
[12:30:12] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie speaking
[12:30:23] <oej (scribe)> This is not the LAST CALL of the document
[12:30:27] sal joins the room
[12:30:46] <oej (scribe)> Mo Zanaty talking
[12:31:35] <oej (scribe)> bernard
[12:32:07] <oej (scribe)> justin uberti and bernard speaking with cullen jennings
[12:32:51] <oej (scribe)> cullen
[12:33:23] <oej (scribe)> adam talking
[12:33:39] <Simon Romano> Slide 25: Matching RTP Streams to mlines: Unique P
[12:33:40] <oej (scribe)> Long mike lines
[12:33:43] <oej (scribe)> Justin speaking
[12:34:10] <oej (scribe)> Colin Perkins
[12:36:20] <oej (scribe)> Roni Even
[12:36:29] <oej (scribe)> "I disagree but are going to disagree on the list" - Adam
[12:37:00] <oej (scribe)> — Prepare for Hadriel volume --
[12:37:21] Tom Kristensen leaves the room
[12:37:23] <oej (scribe)> Four persons in queue
[12:37:25] Tobias leaves the room
[12:38:03] Tobias joins the room
[12:38:05] <oej (scribe)> Another large group in the back of the room prepared to jump in
[12:38:59] Cullen Jennings leaves the room
[12:39:11] pm leaves the room
[12:39:31] pm joins the room
[12:39:34] <oej (scribe)> Hadriel speaking
[12:39:58] <oej (scribe)> "Thank you for this draft - it guarantees me work for many years to come" - Hadriel
[12:40:14] <oej (scribe)> Who's gonna be happy and who's going to leave unhappy?
[12:40:35] pm leaves the room
[12:40:39] <oej (scribe)> sdp-ng++ v 2.0
[12:41:10] saghul leaves the room
[12:41:12] <oej (scribe)> "send us the javascript" - hadriel
[12:41:15] pm joins the room
[12:41:27] <oej (scribe)> Robert Sparks standing up
[12:42:27] <oej (scribe)> Updating SDP O/A is a rathole - RjS
[12:44:18] <oej (scribe)> Please focus on major technichal objections
[12:44:35] <oej (scribe)> Paul speaking
[12:44:43] tomkrist leaves the room
[12:45:14] <oej (scribe)> "bidirectional use of M-lines"
[12:47:02] <oej (scribe)> Adam
[12:47:52] <oej (scribe)> Richard Ejzak in queue
[12:49:26] <oej (scribe)> Harald in queue
[12:49:32] <oej (scribe)> Richard was speaking
[12:49:33] <oej (scribe)> Adam now
[12:49:50] <oej (scribe)> After harald, ekr, Mo, hadriel
[12:50:04] <oej (scribe)> Harald
[12:50:34] <oej (scribe)> "I can't tell what javascript is going to do" - Adam
[12:51:28] danyork leaves the room
[12:51:31] <oej (scribe)> Ten minutes left
[12:51:57] <oej (scribe)> EKR
[12:52:16] <oej (scribe)> "I think we should pursue with this document" - ekr
[12:52:21] <oej (scribe)> Mo
[12:52:45] <jesup> agree with ekr
[12:53:00] <oej (scribe)> Suhas <something> next in line
[12:53:07] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie hovering
[12:53:13] <oej (scribe)> mo talking
[12:53:55] <oej (scribe)> Please prefix with "mic:" for relay services. Thanks!
[12:53:59] <oej (scribe)> Thank you Ted!
[12:54:06] <oej (scribe)> Hadriel talking
[12:54:15] <oej (scribe)> EKR talking
[12:54:42] <oej (scribe)> "I like to understand the scope of this work" - Hadriel
[12:54:50] <oej (scribe)> Ted Hardie waiting in line
[12:54:58] <oej (scribe)> Cullen after Hadriel
[12:55:10] <oej (scribe)> Ted speaking
[12:56:05] <oej (scribe)> Cullen Jennings
[12:57:17] <oej (scribe)> Gonzalo Camarillo speaking as Area Director
[12:57:51] pm leaves the room
[12:57:55] pm joins the room
[12:58:11] <oej (scribe)> Fleming as wg chair
[12:58:16] Tobias leaves the room
[12:58:55] <oej (scribe)> Keith Drage speaking
[12:59:21] pm leaves the room
[12:59:25] hardie@jabber.psg.com leaves the room
[12:59:57] <jesup> hum for adopting unified plan
[13:00:00] <mreavy> hum (for adopting the Unified Plan)
[13:00:11] <oej (scribe)> Cheerings!!!
[13:00:17] <jesup> yeah!!!!!!
[13:00:19] <oej (scribe)> Five meetings and a decision
[13:00:27] <oej (scribe)> The new hollywood movie.
[13:00:36] wolfgang.beck01@gmail.com leaves the room
[13:00:38] <oej (scribe)> Thanks everyone!
[13:00:44] <Lorenzo Miniero> who will Hugh Grant be portraying?
[13:00:52] sal leaves the room
[13:00:56] <Simon Romano> Presentation stopped
[13:01:08] <jesup> Cullen has the hair
[13:01:15] <oej (scribe)> ha ha. Maybe Adam or Hadriel.
[13:01:16] <oej (scribe)> :-)
[13:01:17] <oej (scribe)> Bye!
[13:01:18] oej (scribe) leaves the room
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[13:01:22] martin.thomson leaves the room
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[13:01:34] AA leaves the room
[13:01:49] Lorenzo Miniero leaves the room
[13:02:15] Simon Romano leaves the room
[13:04:50] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[13:08:34] Dan Wing joins the room
[13:09:52] markus.isomaki leaves the room
[13:11:22] stpeter leaves the room
[13:13:37] danyork joins the room
[13:14:41] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[13:14:59] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[13:20:42] jesup leaves the room
[13:21:24] martin.thomson joins the room
[13:32:52] wolfgang.beck01@gmail.com joins the room
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[13:36:40] saghul leaves the room
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[13:59:35] wolfgang.beck01@gmail.com leaves the room
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[14:01:12] saghul leaves the room
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