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[11:56:53] <miah.ness@gmail.com> .
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[12:46:36] <gr8k@jabber.org> does someone get the name of the speaker please ?
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[12:52:00] <miah.ness@gmail.com> Kuntal ?
[12:52:13] <gr8k@jabber.org> no the previous one
[12:52:33] <gr8k@jabber.org> I am actually looking for the draft
[12:52:48] <gr8k@jabber.org> it is not listed in the netlmm page ...
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[12:53:58] <miah.ness@gmail.com> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip6/draft-sgundave-mip6-proxymip6-00.txt
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[12:54:12] <gr8k@jabber.org> thx
[12:54:16] <miah.ness@gmail.com> np
[12:54:33] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Hi Jermiah.. This is Raj
[12:54:46] <miah.ness@gmail.com> hi raj
[12:54:49] <vidya> Raj, you are not in the room?
[12:55:08] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Nope... I am in Dallas.. But I am listening to the audio and on Jabber now.
[12:55:26] <vidya> cool! nothing too exciting going on here though :)
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[12:55:58] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I know... I heard Henriks presentation.. and his argument or pitch for netlmm-dt seemed to be that pmip6 is bad because it has all these problems.
[12:56:46] <vidya> yes, but everything went unchallenged
[12:57:01] <ldondeti> what is this with questions at the end of all presentations?
[12:57:03] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Well... James did not allow anyone to speak :)
[12:57:07] <vidya> we now have to wait for all 4 presentations to finish before we ask Q's
[12:57:18] <ldondeti> that's messed up!
[12:57:18] <vidya> so, when we ask Qs, no one will have any state :)
[12:57:19] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> It is ridiculous
[12:57:31] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Because it means you have to write down your questions and thoughts..
[12:57:41] <vidya> oh, that's only one problem
[12:57:53] <vidya> the rest of the room will need a state refresh
[12:58:28] <vidya> James has always asked people to wait for the end of the presentation for Qs... that itself was sometimes a problem :-S
[12:58:44] <sarikaya> Raj, you had an idea, Q, on Henrik's presentation?
[12:58:45] <ldondeti> I can understand until the end of a short presentation
[12:58:48] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I dont get it... You realy cannot have a very productive discussion with this approach.
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[12:59:11] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I sent them to Jonne... So he will speak for me if necessary.
[12:59:12] <ldondeti> anyway, let's maintain a list of questions
[12:59:20] <vidya> well, that's making an assumption that we want a productive discussion
[13:00:29] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I agree with Hesham... This mode of operation is not very helpful.
[13:00:56] <vidya> a bunch of us agree :)
[13:01:58] <vidya> I am trying to reduce the number of times I speak this morning... let's see if I can succeed
[13:02:19] <ldondeti> well vidya, James facilitates u;
[13:02:19] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I believe the line is growing...
[13:02:39] <gr8k@jabber.org> 5 people at the moment
[13:02:44] <ldondeti> u can stand there once and ask all ur questions in one shot
[13:02:45] <ldondeti> :)
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[13:04:40] <vidya> does anyone think that the dhcp approach has any chance? do I need to speak up about my problems with it or will it go away? ;)
[13:05:01] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I think DHCP is just a distraction in this dialog.
[13:05:24] <gr8k@jabber.org> It did not also receive a good feedback yesterday at dhc
[13:05:26] <vidya> why not use DHCP as a universal mechanism for injecting all kinds of traffic into the network? Seems like a good solution to me :)
[13:05:32] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> So it is really not required as it is not a serious solution... Well at least IMO :)
[13:05:44] <vidya> oh, it is not a serious solution at all
[13:06:10] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Thats a good point.
[13:06:22] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Do the proxy operation first and then worry about HO next.
[13:06:28] <vidya> question is - shd we try to kill it (dhcp) today?
[13:06:56] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I think so... We need to ask the chairs if the discussion or choice of protocols here is primarily between netlmm-dt and PMIP6
[13:07:12] <vidya> ok, I'll say sthg
[13:07:31] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Maybe the chairs should ask if DHCP is something that the WG is interested in order to avoid further discussion on it if there is none.
[13:09:47] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Why are we getting into the details or the differences between the two PMIP6 I-Ds?
[13:10:04] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> After all we will have a single solution eventually... So this discussion is of no value here.
[13:11:00] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Absolutely.. That is a clear requirement for network based mobility.
[13:11:09] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> The one that Gerorge just said.
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[13:21:20] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Microphone jumping... A new sport ;)
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[13:22:37] <gr8k@jabber.org> we need more mic
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[13:32:23] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I would like to say that the network based mobility operation should be very narrowly focused and not start dealing with features like fast HO, dual stack, nemo mode, context transfer etc.
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[13:33:18] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> We need to ensure that the scope is narrow enough for the work to be done quickly and basically deal with it as an incremental feature to the base MIP6 spec (RFC 3775).
[13:33:53] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> BTW, bpjab1=Raj Patil
[13:40:49] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> This is not the right question.
[13:41:00] <vidya> thanks for the clarification on your ID, Raj :)
[13:41:05] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> It is not about adopting 1 PMIP draft vs another.
[13:41:35] <vidya> no, we aren't discussing that
[13:41:41] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Okay.
[13:41:54] <miah.ness@gmail.com> what about the negative question?
[13:42:03] <miah.ness@gmail.com> okay
[13:42:17] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> No.
[13:43:02] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> What does he mean by 1 draft?
[13:43:07] <vidya> 1 approach
[13:43:12] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Okay... 1 approach is correct.
[13:43:19] <vidya> DT, PMIP, DHCP - 3 options
[13:44:18] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> No to DHCP
[13:44:35] <miah.ness@gmail.com> lots of hands
[13:44:41] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Yes. A PMIP solution
[13:45:19] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> No to the DT draft
[13:45:53] <vidya> 45 for PMIP, 30 for DT
[13:46:07] <vidya> no clear consensus - need to go to the list
[13:46:11] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Really...
[13:46:13] <ldondeti> what is this, election now?
[13:46:24] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I know... More waste of time.
[13:46:25] <miah.ness@gmail.com> are the voting machines working
[13:46:27] <vidya> yep
[13:47:03] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> So one question that would be worth asking is: Why not just let the MIP6 WG do this specification instead of debating what netlmm should pick?
[13:47:16] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Because in MIP6 there is strong consensus to do this work.
[13:47:17] <vidya> Jari is talking about that
[13:47:43] <vidya> not clear what he said
[13:48:19] <vidya> but, at the pre-meeting yesterday, we talked about doing PMIP as the PS and the DT one as experimental
[13:48:30] <vidya> let me ask about that
[13:48:32] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Okay..
[13:49:01] <vidya> Kent just asked that Q
[13:53:41] <sarikaya> pmip 45 netlmm 30 votes
[13:54:05] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> The value of IETF protocols becomes even less if the protocols are developed only for academic purposes.
[13:54:11] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> So I disagree with what Thomas said.
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[13:58:05] <vidya> yes, I don't know that what Thomas said makes sense
[13:58:33] <ldondeti> so where are things now?
[13:58:43] <vidya> I'm lost
[13:58:45] <ldondeti> the netlmm WG produces 2 specs?
[13:59:15] <vidya> I'm totally lost now
[14:01:37] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Going around in circles and confusing the issue.
[14:03:09] <ldondeti> is there a plan to salvage the remaining 30 mins?
[14:03:38] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I cant see how... The meeting seems to be headed to basically leaving things inconclusive.
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[14:05:48] <miah.ness@gmail.com> looking good
[14:05:58] <miah.ness@gmail.com> 50 to 23
[14:05:58] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> 50 is good..
[14:06:11] <vidya> finally!
[14:06:12] <sarikaya> new vote pmip 50 notpmip 20
[14:06:12] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> 2 to 1 is clear consensus.
[14:06:24] <ldondeti> well, I wouldn't say that
[14:06:34] <vidya> Jari thinks we're almost there and we'll confirm on the list
[14:07:03] <vidya> oh, this is a can of worms
[14:07:04] <ldondeti> is there a sense on why not "notpmip"
[14:07:09] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Lost audio...
[14:07:21] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Which PMIP I-D is not avalid question..
[14:07:22] <ldondeti> is there a reasoned argument?
[14:07:38] <vidya> why not? to Raj's Q
[14:07:38] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> I think the work can be combined and a single solution produced.
[14:07:43] <vidya> sure
[14:07:50] <vidya> but, a base draft?
[14:07:54] <vidya> starting point
[14:08:12] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> To beging with I guess you could pick the gundave I-D ...
[14:09:29] <miah.ness@gmail.com> there is no decision on which pmip draft
[14:09:46] <bpjab1@jabber.com/Meebo> Okay.. That is fine.
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[14:10:39] <vidya> all done
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[14:10:53] <ldondeti> hmm, finished early?
[14:10:54] <ldondeti> cool
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[20:59:32] <petrescu7> hey?
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