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[02:38:20] <rbless> anyone doing scribe
[02:38:26] <rbless> ?
[02:39:25] <jugi> is Hannes doing them offline?
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[02:45:47] <HannesTschofenig> we don't have a scribe
[02:45:49] <HannesTschofenig> sorry.
[02:46:22] <HannesTschofenig> the slides can be found at http://www.ietf-nsis.org/nsis/IETF63/
[02:51:40] <jukka> Hannes, a question: have you considered the TOS-field as a filter item, or the HOP count?
[02:58:11] <jukka> i guess the current slides are not available anywhere?
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[03:09:43] <rbless> slides can be found at http://www.ietf-nsis.org/nsis/IETF63/ but possibly not all
[03:13:29] <HannesTschofenig> i haven't received all slides unfortunately.
[03:13:52] <Jukka> the mp3 stream sucks currently...
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[03:15:20] <Jukka> I would leave the trigger to the upper layer
[03:15:32] <rbless> Jukka: no sufficient QoS provided...:-)
[03:15:38] <Jukka> heh
[03:17:54] <Jukka> one issue is whether the QUERY should or should not leave a state in nodes
[03:19:33] <rbless> Yes...but I don't think it should..
[03:19:38] <Jukka> got it, john ;)
[03:20:33] <Jukka> my point exactly, a "normal" QUERY should not leave a state, but a query for the RI reservation should leave a state: thus, they must be different and distinguishable
[03:20:52] <Jukka> hence, a bit would be good for that
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[03:46:29] <rbless> Jukka: Ahh..you meant NTLP state...
[03:51:20] <rbless> Jukka: what happened to Sven. If he cannot work on this QoS NSLP thingy
[03:52:03] <rbless> anymore, possibly youo should move him from authors to contributors section due to 48h authors once it should get to RFC
[03:57:30] <Jukka> yeah, good point about Sven, unfortunately
[03:59:47] <rbless> Yes. I don't like to diminish his efforts and merits, but that's really a practical problem..just wanted to point out that potential pitfall
[04:00:03] <Jukka> yep, :(
[04:01:36] <rbless> Next up: In-band IP QoS Signaling Protocol, (Jim Hartford?)
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[04:03:46] <rbless> Al Morton: commented...not really a consensus in ITU..more a discussion
[04:04:40] <rbless> Missed Scott Brim's comment...
[04:05:00] <rbless> John: use official IETF / ITU-T liason channel
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[04:20:55] <rbless> David Black provided pointer to TCP Quickstart
[04:21:36] <rbless> Roland & Hannes: security concerns with in.band signaling approach -> see also NSIS WG document
[04:21:53] <rbless> <..missed Tom Phelans comment...>
[04:22:51] <rbless> Elwyn Davies: puts a lot of burden an router, don't see that this will work in the fast path due to policy servers etc.
[04:24:03] <rbless> Bob Hinden: work currently not in the IETF, would be better to put work here in the IETF if IP/TCP are affected
[04:24:46] <rbless> Francois LeFaucher: Quickstart approach very similar goal
[04:25:12] <rbless> Hannes Tschofenig: thought on aggregation, tunnel, mobility, ....??
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[04:28:36] <Jukka> the ping tool is closer to traceroute :)
[04:28:55] <HannesTschofenig> true.
[04:29:02] <HannesTschofenig> a test and diagnostic tool
[04:29:22] <HannesTschofenig> but it is not a proposal replace traceroute
[04:29:31] <HannesTschofenig> to replace
[04:29:49] <Jukka> yeah, it is a "NSIS traceroute" :)
[04:30:01] <rbless> so name it TAD NSLP?
[04:30:23] <Jukka> "TAD"?
[04:30:38] <rbless> Test and Diagnosis :-)
[04:30:46] <Jukka> right :)
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[04:31:39] <Jukka> basically, the original traceroute does not need explicit support from router, where as TAD would need
[04:31:54] <HannesTschofenig> i know.
[04:32:44] <rbless> Yes. But it is anyway NSIS specific...
[04:33:27] <Jukka> I was just wondering, whether one could implement an "NSIS traceroute" which would not need support from the routers
[04:33:50] <rbless> Don't think so as it would not provide enough informaiton detail
[04:33:53] <Jukka> Hannes, there might be security/privacy issues, too, here...?
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[04:34:07] <rbless> Yep...didn't read the draft..
[04:34:28] <rbless> but maybe some nodes wont give away info about requested objects...
[04:34:40] <HannesTschofenig> regarding security: in the diagnostic tool ?
[04:34:44] <Jukka> I mean, if you send certain kinds of messages, you could gather information about the network...?
[04:34:57] <Jukka> similar to the original traceroute
[04:35:09] <HannesTschofenig> in the first place i think it is a useful thing for interop testing.
[04:35:23] <rbless> Yep. If not allowed by policy, you may exclude some objects from giving away...
[04:35:58] <rbless> info..however, if you disable it completely, then debugging will become much harder...
[04:36:03] <Jukka> yes, but I was just wondering, if you could gather certain information from the network by sending suitable messages, with some wierd fields, eg. hop count
[04:36:37] <Jukka> a separate TAD NSLP would thus sound better: you can enable/disable it as you wish
[04:36:37] <rbless> Ahh, you mean normal GIST msgs
[04:36:54] <Jukka> yeah, normal messages, with certain wierd fields...
[04:37:01] <HannesTschofenig> some networks might want to get information reveled.
[04:37:11] <Jukka> might, or might not?
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