IETF
openpgp
openpgp@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, November 3, 2015< ^ >
dkg has set the subject to: IETF 93 OpenPGP WG session; MeetEcho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf93/openpgp  listen: http://ietf93streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf933.m3u  voice-in (maybe?): https://meet.jit.si/OpenPGPIETF93  etherpad: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-93-openpgp?useMonospaceFont=true&showChat=false
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[05:43:18] dkg joins the room
[05:52:24] <dkg> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-openpgp-1.pdf
[05:54:48] dkg has set the subject to: IETF 94 OpenPGP WG session.  --  MeetEcho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf94/openpgp  --  Overview slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-openpgp-1.pdf
[05:57:28] dkg has set the subject to: IETF 94 OpenPGP WG session.  --  MeetEcho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf94/openpgp  --  Overview slides: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-openpgp-1.pdf  --  listen: http://ietf94streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf945.m3u
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[08:04:17] <dkg> hi all
[08:04:52] <ndurner> Hi!
[08:05:26] <dkg> Nils, thanks for joining
[08:05:36] Nils Durner joins the room
[08:06:00] <dkg> whoop, maybe that's another Nils :)
[08:06:20] <Nils Durner> No, it's me :-)
[08:06:36] <Nils Durner> Thanks for the announcement
[08:06:55] Werner Koch joins the room
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[08:08:41] Joe Hall joins the room
[08:09:06] <Joe Hall> welcome all! Jabber scribe here. Will let you know about slide changes and relay remotes into the room.
[08:09:30] <dkg> if you want someone to say sometihng at the mic, prefix it with "MIC:"
[08:09:38] <dkg> and then Joe will do your bidding
[08:09:40] <dkg> like this:
[08:09:42] <Werner Koch> Good morning/afternoon
[08:09:48] <dkg> MIC: hello!
[08:10:47] Stefan Santesson joins the room
[08:12:58] <Joe Hall> 4880bis
[08:13:08] <Joe Hall> is anyone listening who is remote?
[08:13:08] <Stefan Santesson> Yes
[08:13:13] <Nils Durner> i can hear you
[08:13:16] Steve Olshansky joins the room
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[08:15:33] <Werner Koch> raised
[08:15:59] <dkg> two raised in favor of webbased
[08:16:18] Satoru Kanno joins the room
[08:16:21] <Werner Koch> web is okay
[08:17:23] Robin Wilton joins the room
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[08:18:20] <Joe Hall> since I was going to ask what the diff is b/w github and gitlab: https://about.gitlab.com/better-than-github/
[08:18:48] <Joe Hall> sense of the room in terms of sprinting to this time next year?
[08:18:55] <Nils Durner> MIC: the authenticated crypto competition is scheduled to conclude in 2 years
[08:18:55] <Joe Hall> achievable or not?
[08:19:06] <Nils Durner> CAESAR
[08:19:41] <Nils Durner> ok
[08:20:10] <Werner Koch> Caesar also does not deman online mode which is what we have since PGP 5.
[08:20:37] <Joe Hall> SEIPD attack
[08:20:46] <Joe Hall> who has read/understood the attack?
[08:20:48] <Joe Hall> either or
[08:21:40] <Werner Koch> The default (Open)PGP mode is sign+encrypt
[08:22:34] <Joe Hall> holler if you want MIC, @Werner
[08:23:41] <Werner Koch> (only side talking ;-)
[08:23:50] <Joe Hall> cool!
[08:24:14] Stefan Santesson leaves the room
[08:24:54] <Joe Hall> on to "Algorithm Deprecation"
[08:26:21] <Joe Hall> questions: concrete proposals for deprecating algorithms for stored data
[08:26:37] <Joe Hall> and ideas for deprecating specific algos
[08:27:22] <Joe Hall> that's like a Truecrypt solution
[08:27:23] <Joe Hall> :)
[08:27:29] <sftcd> https://www.iana.org/assignments/pgp-parameters/pgp-parameters.xhtml#pgp-parameters-15 says that md5 is deprecated already btw, do implementations match those iana registries?
[08:27:42] <Joe Hall> MIC?
[08:28:01] <dkg> Joe Hall: sftcd is sitting across the aisle, he can get to the mic easier than you can
[08:28:01] <sftcd> I'm in the  room but URLs at the mic are tricky anyway:-)
[08:28:05] <Joe Hall> ah
[08:28:11] <Joe Hall> word
[08:28:17] <Joe Hall> (err, "I agree")
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[08:30:16] <Werner Koch> MD5 signature is similar to a signature with an expired key
[08:30:24] Stefan Santesson leaves the room
[08:30:38] <Joe Hall> ah, fascinating
[08:30:39] <Werner Koch> or revoked key
[08:31:33] <Joe Hall> big flashing lights
[08:31:44] <Joe Hall> q: which of these algos can we strike?
[08:32:11] <Nils Durner> MIC: RIPE-MD should be deprecated as well.
[08:35:13] <Nils Durner> MIC: there are government regulations that specify algo expiry,  like "RIPE-MD is suitable for signature verification until the end of 2015".
[08:35:55] <Nils Durner> MIC: therefore, rejecting consumption of outdated algos might make sense
[08:37:02] <Werner Koch> MIC: There are many other restrictions in these regulations.  That is not a matter of an open  standard
[08:39:05] <Werner Koch> For example: Only Brainpool curves are allowed.
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[08:44:07] <sftcd> grep -i warn rfc4880.txt  | wc
      5      61     349
[08:44:36] <Joe Hall> humming: start with what to deprecate or what to keep?
[08:44:57] <Joe Hall> no hums from the room
[08:45:04] <Joe Hall> s/room/chat room/
[08:48:02] <Joe Hall> moving on to FPR
[08:48:40] <Werner Koch> One!
[08:49:29] <Werner Koch> hummmmm
[08:49:30] <Joe Hall> hum: one vs. multiple formats
[08:49:41] kivinen joins the room
[08:50:04] <Joe Hall> hum: should there be more than one fpr format for a given key?
[08:50:13] <Christopher LILJENSTOLPE> on the jabber room?
[08:50:27] <Christopher LILJENSTOLPE> no hums for the multi-fingerprint
[08:50:35] <Christopher LILJENSTOLPE> many hums for one fingerprint per key
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[08:54:05] <sftcd> so those'd all be bada55 fingerprints:-)
[08:54:22] <Joe Hall> heh
[08:55:13] <Joe Hall> @sftcd: you've probably seen this? https://evil32.com/
[08:55:48] <Joe Hall> allows you to create boutique fprs
[08:55:52] <sftcd> hadn't seen it no
[08:56:51] <sftcd> christian's idea is neat, not quite sure of the exact benefit but worth discussion on the list if someone could figure that out
[08:56:52] <Werner Koch> leave the timestamps out as we did in PGP-2
[08:57:50] <Werner Koch> Implementations started to use a 0 creation timestamp.
[08:58:11] <Christopher LILJENSTOLPE> Thank's Werner
[08:58:53] <sftcd> wrt timestamps, going with the code seems fine
[08:59:18] <Werner Koch> (to allow re-creation of the key w/o having a creation timestamp)
[09:00:06] <Werner Koch> Too slow on embedded platforms.
[09:01:59] <Joe Hall> on to Bryan Ford from EPFL talking about symmetric crypto
[09:02:24] <Neal Walfield> Bryan's mic is not on, I think
[09:02:45] <Joe Hall> good?
[09:02:45] <Neal Walfield> now it's good
[09:02:47] <Joe Hall> kk
[09:07:59] <Christopher LILJENSTOLPE> The slides are now on datatracker
[09:09:28] <Joe Hall> hum: should we reuse existing packet formats?
[09:09:32] <Joe Hall> wait a second
[09:09:47] <Werner Koch> New packet and a single one
[09:10:21] <Joe Hall> new packet tag, @Werner?
[09:10:32] <Werner Koch> Yes.
[09:10:48] <Nils Durner> +1 for the new packet tag
[09:12:22] <Joe Hall> thanks folks
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[09:18:28] <Joe Hall> hum if you like one packet tag
[09:18:38] <Joe Hall> no hums against in the room
[09:18:46] <Werner Koch> MIC: chunking would be very nice but we would also soon get into the disk encryption realm with all its problems
[09:19:14] <sftcd> @remote folks: did the audio drop out or just jabber?
[09:19:21] <ndurner> just jabber
[09:19:21] <Werner Koch> [I had probelms with the jabber thing here in the last minutes)
[09:19:42] <sftcd> yeah same thing happened for other meetings
[09:20:26] <Werner Koch> We talked about OCB in Prague?  Is this off the table now?
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[09:22:05] <Werner Koch> The problem I see with other schemes is that it won't be faster as the current  CFB + SHA1
[09:22:59] <Meetecho> sorry about that, it looks like there was an issue between our jabber server and the IETF ones for a couple of groups
[09:23:05] <Werner Koch> also merkle trees and Ed25519 as suggested on the list.
[09:23:06] <Meetecho> we'll look into what caused it
[09:23:09] <Joe Hall> thanks meetecho!
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[09:27:02] <Werner Koch> Wouldn't that also mean that need to move from plain ECC to Elligator?
[09:27:28] <Joe Hall> what's that for, Werner? sorry, hard to tell from here
[09:27:41] <Werner Koch> Meta data protection
[09:27:44] <Joe Hall> ah
[09:27:54] <dkg> Joe Hall: elligator is a mechanism to make ECC public keys indistiguishable from random strings
[09:27:57] <Werner Koch> Elligator is an ECC mode to hide everything(tm)
[09:28:06] <Joe Hall> cool
[09:29:05] <Werner Koch> (trial decryptions are annoying if your private keys are passphrase protected)
[09:29:14] <Neal Walfield> Trying keys is a pain if keys are on a smartcard
[09:32:10] <Werner Koch> But then we are sending the fully randomized stuff by mail ;-)
[09:32:25] <Joe Hall> ha!
[09:32:35] <Neal Walfield> and the smart card may have to be inserted
[09:32:41] <Neal Walfield> and you might have more than 1 smartcard
[09:33:20] Stefan Santesson joins the room
[09:35:46] <sftcd> since we're short of time: yes, exposing less metadata is good, as far as practicable
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[09:42:13] <Werner Koch> bye
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[09:42:21] <ndurner> bye
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[09:53:30] <dkg> thanks to all
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