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[16:02:52] <Dan York> I'll be glad to scribe again
[16:03:02] <Dan York> Are there remote attendees here?
[16:03:08] <kamaji> Yep
[16:03:16] <Dan York> okay
[16:03:23] <Dan York> chairs going over agenda
[16:03:29] <kamaji> I'm listening to the audio stream though.
[16:03:37] <kamaji> so you don't need to be too detailed :)
[16:03:49] <Dan York> okay
[16:03:54] <Dan York> agenda is http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/agenda/p2psip.txt
[16:04:31] <kamaji> For other remote users, you can hear audio feeds of this at: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf702.m3u other rooms can be had at: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/
[16:04:32] <Dan York> materials at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html
[16:05:09] <Dan York> EKR at mic
[16:05:12] <Dan York> JR at mic
[16:05:28] <Dan York> How does this agenda move us forward?
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[16:06:04] <Dan York> Is this group not interested in moving fwd with a protocol proposal?
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[16:10:40] <Dan York> still bashing around the agenda
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[16:12:01] <Dan York> First up, Spencer Dawkins - slides at http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/p2psip-0.ppt
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[16:12:44] <Dan York> Goal
[16:12:52] <Dan York> (slide)
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[16:14:17] <dwillis@jabber.org> You knw, I don't think things like "recursive routing" have made it into the concepts document. They should.
[16:14:18] <vidya> if all people asking questions or commenting can use the mic, that would help for remote listners
[16:15:30] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> what slide # are we on?
[16:15:39] <jiang_xing_feng> i thinks semi-recursive routing mode should not be excluded now due to its advantages in day over other routing mode
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[16:16:08] <Dan York> Slide - A Few Words From Your Sponsor
[16:16:32] <Dan York> if people don't say their names I will ask them to do so
[16:16:41] <dwillis@jabber.org> Thanks, Dan.
[16:16:44] <Dan York> Jiang - is that a request to raise a question?
[16:16:59] <jiang_xing_feng> yes
[16:17:04] <Dan York> Remote attendees - if you want me to add a comment from the mic please say so
[16:17:15] <Dan York> jiang - okay I'll get in line
[16:18:21] <Dan York> you can hear me mispronounce your name
[16:18:56] <Dan York> Henning up next
[16:19:08] <Dan York> missed who is talking now
[16:19:40] <peetu> Philip Matthews (sp?)
[16:19:56] <Dan York> thx
[16:20:11] <jiang_xing_feng> 3x
[16:20:42] <Dan York> ?
[16:20:55] <Dan York> "3x" means what?
[16:21:01] <Dan York> Henning at mic
[16:21:16] <dwillis@jabber.org> Thanks 3 times, I think
[16:21:20] <Dan York> Bruce Lowekamp next, then me
[16:21:23] <jiang_xing_feng> sorry, equal thx in chinese,
[16:21:35] * Dan York ounderstands
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[16:24:15] <Dan York> Bruce up
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[16:27:16] <Dan York> Jiang - hopefully I was close in pronunciation
[16:27:21] <Dan York> Henning was up
[16:27:24] <Dan York> JR at mic now
[16:27:42] <Dan York> We are on the "Please start talking now" slide in Spencer's deck
[16:28:27] <Dan York> Bruce Lowekamp was up
[16:28:33] <Dan York> Tim Hardie now speaking
[16:28:47] <Dan York> Cullen is heading to the mic
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[16:28:56] <Dan York> someone else got there first
[16:29:04] <Dan York> (after Ted)
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[16:30:16] <dwillis@jabber.org> what was his name?
[16:30:16] <Dan York> ___ talking now (couldn't get his name)
[16:30:23] <Dan York> Cullen now
[16:30:56] <Dan York> dwillis@jabber.org: previous speaker was Hui Deng from China Mobile
[16:31:05] <dwillis@jabber.org> thanks
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[16:31:41] <Dan York> Hum - can we throw anything off the table?
[16:31:57] <Dan York> we will continue talking (chairs)
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[16:32:15] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> <very few hums heard>
[16:32:25] <Dan York> Phillip Matthews on NAT traversal
[16:32:28] <Dan York> slides: http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/p2psip-3.ppt
[16:32:30] <xiaohunhun> thanks, Hui Deng
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[16:33:16] <Dan York> slide 2
[16:34:32] <Dan York> no one hummed in opposition to using ICE
[16:34:52] <Dan York> slide 3 - Issue 1: Finding STUN/TURN servers
[16:35:58] <Dan York> talking about "Naive solution"
[16:36:27] <Dan York> Two solutions:
[16:36:45] <Dan York> draft-jiang-p2psip-sep
[16:36:55] <Dan York> draft-bryan-p2psip-reload
[16:37:47] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> On slide 4 I assume?
[16:38:04] <Dan York> yes
[16:38:21] <Dan York> EKR at mic
[16:39:07] <Dan York> ____ at mic (missed name)
[16:39:15] <dwillis@jabber.org> Salman
[16:39:19] <Dan York> thx
[16:39:48] <dwillis@jabber.org> I believe he's at Columbia with Henning, has the 500-node trial running
[16:40:10] <Dan York> ah, interesting
[16:40:32] <victor.pascual.avila> yes, i think he is
[16:41:49] <Dan York> OpenDHT
[16:42:12] <Dan York> ____ at mic - basically agrees with Salman
[16:42:19] <Dan York> Bruce Lowekamp at mic
[16:42:24] <victor.pascual.avila> he was Jani H
[16:42:28] <Dan York> thx
[16:42:47] <Dan York> EKR at mic
[16:42:50] <Dan York> Henning queued
[16:43:47] <Dan York> Henning - do you want a specialized or general solution?
[16:44:07] <victor.pascual.avila> (Jani asked to read with-hip draft. Where other techniques are described)
[16:44:37] <Dan York> Next slide -
[16:44:47] <Dan York> "Issue: Large msgs over UDP"
[16:45:00] <Dan York> 3 options listed
[16:45:48] <Dan York> Bruce Lowekamp -
[16:46:01] <Dan York> option 1 can't be relied upon
[16:46:04] <Dan York> Henning at mic
[16:46:22] <Dan York> Francois Audet and EKR queued
[16:46:54] <Dan York> Henning - option 2 is reinventing path MTU
[16:47:53] <Dan York> Henning - should make total cost
[16:48:03] <Dan York> Henning agrees with option 3 (only TCP)
[16:48:19] <Dan York> Francois at mic, JR queued (EKR sat down)
[16:48:49] <Dan York> Francois thinks we should do option 3 - and asks how many times we are going to deal with this?
[16:49:36] <Dan York> JR at mic, 3 or 4 people queued
[16:49:44] <Dan York> JR agrees with option 3
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[16:51:40] <Dan York> Ingmar (?) at mic - do we use TCP for only large or for all packets?
[16:51:40] <dwillis@jabber.org> whodatguy?
[16:51:44] <Dan York> answer - all
[16:51:45] <dwillis@jabber.org> Ah thanks.
[16:52:05] <Dan York> Brian Stucker (?) at mic asking about study
[16:52:30] <Dan York> Brian ___ at mic - this is transport protocol functionality
[16:52:38] <Dan York> there are other ways to get that functionality
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[16:52:59] <Dan York> Cullen at mic
[16:53:22] <Dan York> doesn't think this is a reflection of the "SciCats" study (name?)
[16:53:34] <Dan York> also contradicts his (Cullen) own results
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[16:54:02] <Dan York> Cullen - lynchpin - will anyone actually deploy a TURN server?
[16:54:27] <Dan York> Cullen likes TCP but is uncomfortable with removing UDP from table
[16:54:30] <Dan York> Henning at mic
[16:54:56] <Dan York> dwillis@jabber.org: Ingmar Baumgart
[16:55:14] <Dan York> dwillis@jabber.org: name of earlier speaker
[16:55:44] <Dan York> skipping next slides - out of time
[16:56:26] <Dan York> Next up - Marcin Matuszewski
[16:56:31] <Dan York> Slides - http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/p2psip-2.pdf
[16:56:35] <Dan York> Do we need clients?
[16:56:55] <Dan York> slide 2, diff btw client and UA
[16:58:57] <Dan York> next slide
[17:00:39] <Dan York> Henning at mic
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[17:02:47] <Dan York> slide 4
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[17:04:54] <Dan York> slide 5
[17:06:35] <Dan York> slide 6
[17:08:33] <Dan York> Slide 7 on measurements
[17:08:43] <Dan York> EKR at mic
[17:09:16] <vidya> sorry, I missed the part about 5 days - what was the 5 days in reference to?
[17:09:20] <dwillis@jabber.org> Question from Eric: What happens to battery based on multiple connections with keepalives?
[17:09:27] <dwillis@jabber.org> nokia phone in GSM mode runs 5 days
[17:09:35] <vidya> oh ok.. thanks
[17:09:43] <dwillis@jabber.org> when doing dht, dies in 5 hours
[17:10:09] <Dan York> Bruce Lowekamp at mic
[17:10:56] <Dan York> looking for usage scenarios for storing info in a node (did I capture that right?)
[17:11:35] <Dan York> chair asks for hum - how many people think we'll need a client protocol?
[17:11:45] <Dan York> weak hum
[17:12:05] <Dan York> weaker hum for "we'll never need a client protocol"
[17:12:33] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> Chair doesn't need to speak so loudly/closely into his mic -- there's a fair bit of distortion from him.
[17:12:50] <Dan York> how many people support think we can seperate this, deal with peer protocol and then come back to this
[17:12:55] <Dan York> weak hums on both sides
[17:12:58] <Dan York> Cullen at mic
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[17:14:35] <Dan York> Philip Matthews up now
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[17:15:54] <Dan York> Spencer, Dean (busily notetaking while standing), Henning and Henry (Sinnreich) all queued
[17:18:20] <Dan York> Spencer up and agreeing with what Philip says
[17:18:24] <Dan York> said
[17:20:15] <Dan York> Dean Willis up
[17:21:56] <Dan York> Thinks subsetting of protocol needs to be dynamic.
[17:22:05] <Dan York> Henning up at mic
[17:22:38] <Dan York> Jabber scribe needs to step out for a sec to get a drink of water...
[17:25:05] <dwillis@jabber.org> Henry Sinnreich at mic
[17:25:58] <dwillis@jabber.org> Philip Matthews up
[17:26:57] <Dan York> back
[17:26:59] <Dan York> ___ at mic
[17:27:08] <dwillis@jabber.org> dunno. Anybody get his name?
[17:27:20] <jiang_xing_feng> zhenghewen
[17:27:27] <Dan York> No
[17:27:31] <dwillis@jabber.org> thanks
[17:27:33] <Dan York> ah, thx
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[17:29:35] <Dan York> EKR up on security
[17:30:34] <ttfr> go!!
[17:31:29] <Dan York> slide 3
[17:31:42] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> any url for slides?
[17:31:55] <ttfr> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07dec/slides/p2psip-4.pdf
[17:32:08] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> thx ttfr
[17:32:17] <ttfr> all slides available from here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/70/materials.html
[17:33:13] <Dan York> Henry Sinnreich at mic
[17:34:42] <Dan York> ___ up at mic
[17:34:43] <dwillis@jabber.org> who's this?
[17:35:06] <Dan York> If he turns around I'll get to see his nametag
[17:35:22] <Dan York> ok, that works, too
[17:35:25] <Dan York> :-D
[17:35:37] <dwillis@jabber.org> ?
[17:36:19] <Keith Kyzivat (kamaji)> Max <mumble> <mumble> college.
[17:37:05] <Dan York> slide 4
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[17:40:17] <Dan York> slide 5
[17:43:38] <Dan York> slide 6
[17:43:44] <Dan York> Henning at mic
[17:44:04] <Dan York> That was me stepping up to the mic a couple of times during discussion of slide 4 and 5
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[17:49:37] <Dan York> Henning is at the mic... Henry, JR and Philip queued
[17:52:00] <Dan York> Henry Sinnreich
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[17:52:54] <Dan York> Philip at mic
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[18:01:21] <Dan York> meeting ending
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