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[04:29:35] <ggm> harald has the slides up.
[04:29:43] <ggm> um.. is anybody 'here' not [here] -?
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[04:31:25] <Melinda> I'm not here. Multicast isn't working.
[04:31:33] <ggm> kay. want it logged?
[04:31:41] <warlord> i see no slides
[04:31:47] <ggm> well he took 'em down again.
[04:31:53] <ggm> think blue. its peaceful
[04:32:32] <ggm> we're on.
[04:32:36] <ggm> Harald has the mike.
[04:32:42] <ggm> 'time to get serious'
[04:32:43] <Melinda> Thanks!
[04:32:46] <ggm> welcome.
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[04:33:01] <ggm> first IETF in korea [applause]
[04:33:18] <ggm> fantastic IETF thus far. most helpful, well run, smooth can remember since oslo [laughs]
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[04:33:46] <ggm> still two plenaries. today is state of the union plenary
[04:33:53] <ggm> (not IAB/IESG split)
[04:34:08] <ggm> administrative. whats going on. IESG plenary, open mike. IAB plenary, open mike
[04:34:15] <ggm> tomorrow is 'plan for the future'
[04:34:27] <ggm> Arch topic: multihoming, ID+Loc
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[04:34:34] <ggm> IETF Process work- status rep
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[04:34:41] <ggm> IETF Admin restructure - status rep
[04:34:44] <ggm> Come prepared!
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[04:35:05] <ggm> putting things into place so when get the work done, its done. then finish.
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[04:35:24] <ggm> building rational structure for work we do
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[04:35:38] <ggm> early welcome to tomorrows plenary.
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[04:36:04] <ggm> agenda for today is long as usual. -slide of optimistic time windows for topics.
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[04:36:46] <ggm> skipped.
[04:37:03] <ggm> 1545 regos. 1362 paid, 1255 are here
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[04:37:15] <ggm> [laughs]
[04:37:31] <ggm> 32 countries, many from asia
[04:37:40] <ggm> if registered not paid, shame on you, if paid and not here, thankyou
[04:38:18] <ggm> largest is from local host. second is US, but US less than 1/4
[04:38:27] <ggm> important events since MN.
[04:38:59] <ggm> IPR rfcs published. NOMCOM doc approved Problem statement approved ICAR/NEWTRK WG created further changes discussed tomorrow
[04:39:15] <ggm> 'starting to get finished' -stop worring and 'do'
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[04:39:42] <ggm> in 4 months, 126 docs approved, 15 per telechat.
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[04:39:58] <ggm> DNSSEC DS, OSPF-TE
[04:40:13] <ggm> and .sex considered harmful. best title for a serious RFC [laughs]
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[04:40:49] <ggm> proactive followups on old docs. if one of 150 doc-eds who got comments back to IESG, said 'get back to that tomorrow' -we're coming to get you. -getting things done is the name of the game
[04:41:25] <ggm> future meetings, IETF Sandiego, August 1-6. Fall, no contract, Nov 7-12, sponsor is rumoured.
[04:42:04] <ggm> special thanks to hosts: KT Samsung TTA NOC team host of others Secretariat Multicast crew 'wireless just worked' [HUGE applause]
[04:42:05] <ggm> now a word from our sponsors..
[04:43:31] <ggm> Dae Young KIM.
[04:44:27] <ggm> thanks to.. my partner. director at TTA. Mr CHung Mung beo? [applause]
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[04:44:49] <ggm> wonder where I am from, from Uni, had to get gov, and others, thrill and challenging
[04:45:01] <ggm> worry about nth korea invading.. sorry not ready yet.
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[04:45:21] <ggm> I can't go in here, need 2 months security clearance, but all fully booked, can go to the tunnel
[04:45:43] <ggm> this is the heart of seoul.
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[04:47:01] <ggm> the south gate, our treasure number #1. some people have freedom, we have this south gate. 5 mins walk from here. this is south gate mkt. lot of people, cheap prices, meungdong area, youngsters area, for coffee etc. fancy street, find good food, youngsters, good looking girls. now we're in clothes store, 18 stories high..
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[04:47:19] <ggm> bring any photo from paris, get it done in 24h, including brand label [laugh]
[04:47:41] <ggm> insadung. antique store st. try for antiques, be careful to buy the real one.
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[04:48:07] <ggm> korea is known for broadband. decided to go ADSL, 6mbit./sec, homes now VSDL, 50/75mb for flat price of $30./month [claps]
[04:48:25] <ggm> lot of problem, people downloading DVD over net, in 5-10 minutes, real stress to net providers. [applause]
[04:48:44] <ggm> want stress problem, we are the best testbed.
[04:49:30] <ggm> work and play through the night, $1 hr 50c/hr bring notebook. every corner of st there are pc rooms
[04:49:41] <ggm> don't go home, drink, smoke, do everything, sleep during school [laugh]
[04:49:58] <ggm> very serious about gaming. koreans not good at technology: just singing, dancing, gaming
[04:50:29] <ggm> lots of pro gamers, this is one of the scene. networked games, not studio games. this product on slide is 'lineage' the #1 selling KR network game, being sold in CN.
[04:50:57] <ggm> game providers running 2-3000 game servers in the network. biggest consumer of servers, and b/w of the ISPs.
[04:51:13] <ggm> Korea was first to deploy Qualcomm CDMA. net
[04:51:16] <ggm> nationwide
[04:51:23] <ggm> somebody is making a lot of money out of this.
[04:51:56] <ggm> koreans are very luxurious. buy expensive camera phones. 1,.5mpixel on phones.
[04:51:59] <ggm> to be more serious.
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[04:52:25] <ggm> BcN broadband convergeance net, industry/gov wireless./wired/telecom/data/commun.broadcast
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[04:53:00] <ggm> Hpi. hispeed portable . 2,3ghz 2mbit. and V6 is the real issue for whole industry/gov. want to make this region, incl. cn and jp a big market. thanks. see you in San Diego [applause]
[04:53:27] <ggm> Rich from NOMCOM. your 30 seconds of fame [harald]
[04:53:29] <warlord> so, how many IPs does one get for their 20Mbps VDSL at $30/mo?
[04:53:40] <ggm> he's gone. sorry
[04:53:51] <ggm> Nomcom membership on board. I aint gonna type it.
[04:54:20] <ggm> process review.
[04:54:39] <ggm> started fall, solicited volunteers. 100 volunteers. great. random selection, chose 10 to vote.
[04:54:56] <ggm> solicited nominations, feedback from community around time of MN ietf. noms closed. sent Qs to
[04:55:26] <tonyhansen> http://www.ietf.org/nomcom/msg10.24.txt has noncom membership list
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[04:55:30] <ggm> everyone nominated. many agreed to serve. after thinking about Qnairs, feedback, shortlisted. then went back to community for feedback, interviews, we had the final vote
[04:55:39] <ggm> IESG results.
[04:55:58] <ggm> scott, bert, davidK, alex, seteve, allison.
[04:56:08] <ggm> IAB. filling 6
[04:56:18] <ggm> leslie, patrik, eric, bob, pete, jonathan.
[04:56:38] <ggm> thanks to nomcom, candidates, community, secretariat
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[04:58:06] <ggm> Back to Harald. Fred Baker. handing out plaques to outgoing members, thought we;d say thankyou
[04:58:19] <ggm> ahead of time.
[04:58:29] <ggm> Fred: up here because chairman of the board of ISOC BoT
[04:58:46] <ggm> thanking departing people. recognition
[04:59:00] <ggm> Randy Bush. 99-03. Ops and Mgt [applause]
[04:59:23] <ggm> Ned Freed 2000-04 Apps [APPLAUSE]
[04:59:34] <ggm> Erik Nordmark. 99-03 Internet area. [applause]
[04:59:51] <ggm> Charlie Kaufman. 02-04. [applause]
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[05:00:03] <ggm> James Kempf 02-04 [applause]
[05:00:47] <ggm> Mike St Johns. 02-04 (also 93-95) been around longer than the IETF has. involved in funding, over last few years 2 stints on IAB. threatens to miss IETF. I'll believe it when I see it [applause]
[05:01:36] <ggm> RFC Ed report. Joyce Reynolds
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[05:02:37] <ggm> news. errata page. modified to include anchors for each RFC entry. ext pages can link to errata entry RFC interest ml. for discussions. go www.rfc-editor.org webpage, instructions how to subscribe.
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[05:03:30] <ggm> Copyright and IPR being put on all RFCs.
[05:03:37] <ggm> all refs should have corresponding textual citations. also applies for IMPORTS in MIBs
[05:04:11] <ggm> thankx to Bert the Mib Docter
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[05:04:38] <ggm> all ietf reports available from ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/IETFreports/
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[05:05:14] <ggm> condensed slide of activity. monthly stats
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[05:05:21] <ggm> throughput. doc arrival/departure times
[05:05:26] <ggm> Q at end of month.
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[05:05:43] <ggm> its growing. now in 'bursty' stage. increased staff. contingency plans to increase as neccessary
[05:06:15] <ggm> Q breakdown. edit stage is now broken down.
[05:06:33] <ggm> things put in hold, now shown.
[05:06:55] <ggm> thats it. Qs?
[05:07:06] <ggm> [done]
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[05:07:33] <ggm> Doug Barton, IANA
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[05:07:47] <ggm> Michelle Cotton has baby. [applause]
[05:08:10] <ggm> michelle says hello. back in action later this year.
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[05:08:59] <ggm> giving overview of IANA, params update, ICANN feedback
[05:09:41] <ggm> summarizing IANA stakeholders. RIRs,TLDmgrs, IETF, .int Registry
[05:09:59] <ggm> mention so that you know.. if not working on IETF, its not cos we don't love you, we have other work to do
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[05:10:43] <ggm> scooting through the list of protocol port assignments
[05:11:19] <ggm> IANA behind on processing drafts, apologies
[05:11:46] <ggm> been working to improve this
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[05:12:29] <ggm> solicited advice to advance drafts out of order. dependencies. had offers. special consideration
[05:12:45] <ggm> been effective in improving, not alleviating, the interface. feedback welcome
[05:12:52] <ggm> ICANN.
[05:13:19] <ggm> new senior staff. Kieran Baker, John Crain, Dan Halloran, Theresa Swhinehart
[05:13:20] <ggm> 'new strategic vision'
[05:13:46] <ggm> read and comment on the plan.
[05:13:59] <ggm> working on workflow system. code to handle back-end tkt tracking etc.
[05:14:45] <ggm> working with IAB/IESG on details for IETF
[05:14:55] <ggm> Globali[zs]ation
[05:15:01] <ggm> new office in brussels.
[05:15:07] <ggm> translation, IDNS.
[05:15:41] <Melinda> Is anybody else trying to watch via multicast?
[05:16:04] <ggm> revamping website.
[05:16:09] <ggm> working on V6 glue in the root
[05:16:21] <ggm> Question.
[05:16:29] <ggm> Lawsuit?
[05:16:35] <ggm> A: must decline.
[05:16:52] <ggm> other Qs?
[05:16:55] <Loughney> anyone know what the lawsuit issue is?
[05:17:11] <ggm> Larry. how the IANA system was going to work with the IESG system
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[05:17:48] <ggm> A: working with Bill Fenner. can talk later
[05:17:55] <ggm> Alex: do generic, long delay.
[05:18:06] <ggm> A: commitment from Twomey./Crain this is high priority item
[05:18:47] <ggm> Alex one more clarification
[05:18:53] <ggm> what was reason for office in brussels
[05:19:13] <ggm> A: global org. interests in public part, all round world. this is first step having local presence with global impact.
[05:20:05] <ggm> Lawsuit issue is Verisign vs ICANN. you know, WWF vs ExtremeWrestle.
[05:20:22] <ggm> [applause]
[05:20:45] <Loughney> OK, thanks!
[05:20:52] <ggm> Allison Mankin IESG ops report
[05:21:20] * dougb breathes a sigh of relief :)
[05:21:48] <ggm> Problem statement, overload, throughput issues in IESG.
[05:21:59] <ggm> i-d tracker critical tool
[05:22:06] <ggm> using for statistics too
[05:22:27] <ggm> hacky how we use it, but great to do it
[05:22:47] <ggm> propose to start generating reports. support evaluation of how things are going. how to tackle throughput/overload problem
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[05:23:00] <ggm> Metric with meaning. 'documents all the way down'
[05:23:07] <ggm> [anybody got ptr to the slides plz =ggm]
[05:23:25] <ggm> what we do here, is produce docs.
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[05:24:09] <ggm> Q is, in the given period, how many pub reqs did we get, vs how many did we approve. not how long
[05:24:20] <ggm> proves to be good start.
[05:24:22] <ggm> graph
[05:24:32] <ggm> numbers by bill fenner.
[05:24:41] <ggm> no trends yet
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[05:24:50] <ggm> these numbers have been checked. since MN.
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[05:25:28] <ggm> broke into categories
[05:25:37] <ggm> [sorry melinda, I cant do this justice]
[05:26:30] <Melinda> I really appreciate it. The word from the multicast guy on the problems was that I can watch it in a few weeks when the archive is available online
[05:26:44] <leslie> bleah!
[05:26:48] <ggm> 228 docs. 117 requested, 117 approved, 17 exited 23 requested and approved
[05:26:54] <ggm> so the queue didn't grow, but.. not so good.
[05:27:04] <ggm> breakdown map for the ones done quickly.
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[05:27:16] <ggm> lots of req->app in same period were informationals
[05:27:19] <ggm> conclusions
[05:27:42] <ggm> Q did not grow. pipe is full. do not have infinite Q. taking long time. would get reqs and approve if pipe not full.
[05:27:50] <ggm> more positive. we can use this for quantitative goals
[05:28:03] <ggm> can watch it happening. can do trending more often.
[05:28:36] <ggm> look at issues. look at reform efforts
[05:28:39] <hartmans> So, is four months or however long since MN really so bad for IESG publication delays?
[05:28:40] <ggm> early review trials.
[05:29:16] <ggm> fair number of discussed comments. review, discuss cycle. pipe can be less full ,early review may make the pipe thinner.
[05:29:48] <ggm> PROTO team trials. WG chairs add cycles. they shepard document, tighter review process controls. transitions don't happen get tightened out of system, pipe gets thinner.
[05:29:50] <Margaret> Four months is pretty bad, because the RFC editor takes another three months.
[05:29:55] <ggm> about report.
[05:30:06] <ggm> don't want to make long report but want to make. one possibility is to do email updates.
[05:30:17] <ggm> want feedback.
[05:30:26] <ggm> expet to develop better latency metric
[05:30:35] <ggm> s/expet/expect/
[05:30:46] <ggm> discusssions on solutions[-request]@ietf.org
[05:30:47] <ggm> Qestions?
[05:30:51] <ggm> s/Q/Qu/
[05:31:04] <ggm> Elliot Lear.
[05:31:08] <ggm> two issues.
[05:31:09] <Bill> The 4 months was the statistics gathering period, not the delay on any particular doc
[05:31:14] <ggm> first PROTO going forward
[05:31:32] <ggm> I am concerned something missing. missing is the seems like lost understanding of what PS is.
[05:31:42] <hartmans> margaret - But if it takes that long to do the review. I guess early review may help, but I'm unsure that any of the other tools will actually cut down on length of time to review effectively
[05:31:59] <ggm> trying to be too perfect. my message to IESG is 'use PS as intended' if stds cant stand up, let PS be ephemeral. at a time when about to expire, either expire, or, the WG should progress it.
[05:32:06] <ggm> this is what I thought PS was meant to be.
[05:32:17] <ggm> time portion expended in reviews tryuing to get it right first time. problem.
[05:32:26] <ggm> want to see how many times we look at docs.
[05:32:38] <droms> It doesn't need to take that long to do a review. Combine the internal IESG review with the IETF call, and get the IETF last call started as soon as the WG assks for publication Two reasons:
[05:32:39] <ggm> want us to be able to do this in limited periods of time. change== risk. need to be less risk adverse
[05:32:50] <ggm> Allison. discussion active in NEWTRK grp
[05:33:07] <ggm> make initial pub less reviewed. different Q to this one, get reviews to have the most times squeezed out of them. not subject here.
[05:33:09] <ggm> Elliot.
[05:33:12] <droms> (a) Run IESG internal review in parallel with IETF review and (b) get the internal IESG review out in the open
[05:33:22] <ggm> concern is, reason time of review, IESG spending lot of times trying to perfect things.
[05:33:32] <ggm> Allison. Qestioning basic assumptions. that is topic of NEWTRK
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[05:33:51] <ggm> believe we can decentralize with early review, add cycles to tracking. lot of wasted time
[05:33:57] <ggm> not that many review comments.
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[05:34:22] <ggm> may be other metrics
[05:34:26] <ggm> impose deadlines
[05:34:46] <ggm> don't know tradeoffs until applied metrics to system look at this while study what you prpopse. go to NEWTRK
[05:34:55] <ggm> BobHinden.
[05:35:10] <ggm> agree with Eric. [except he is elliot]
[05:35:37] <ggm> more approvals of non-IETF stuff, non STD track stuff, than input. fair assumption? hard to read colours
[05:36:00] <ggm> growth in the top two. clearly spending half time reviewing non-IETF
[05:36:07] <ggm> Harald not time spent. just count of documents
[05:36:16] <ggm> Bob: ok,. half docs processed not IETF.
[05:37:11] <ggm> Allison maybe this breakdown into category not helpful. not meant to compare input and outputs
[05:37:47] <ggm> Bill F.
[05:38:12] <ggm> to inject numbers, not different. 31 non-WG requests. 38 finished. and then 86 requested 80 finished
[05:38:15] <ggm> not significantly different
[05:38:47] <ggm> Ralph Droms
[05:38:56] <ggm> IESG perfectionism. I'm experiencing this.
[05:39:21] <ggm> see it manifested in amount of time taken to get initial IESG review before IETF last call, manifested in number of reviews, anon reviews. all strikes me as perfectionism
[05:39:32] <ggm> wanting to get to a degree of perfection before it goes to last call.
[05:40:08] <ggm> Allison. when we do the latency metric. not solid. want to do solid, simple latency metric, try to reduce that. against a constructive approach. would encourage us to do occams razor
[05:40:27] <ggm> Ralph is that study of how to review Occam to the process in any of the WG eg NEWTRK? directly?
[05:40:36] <ggm> Harald. would belong to ICAR
[05:40:42] <ggm> Eric Falk, RFC ed.
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[05:40:50] <leslie> s/Eric/Aaron/
[05:40:53] <ggm> having struggled with this issue, measuring RFC-ed performance
[05:41:05] <ggm> ta
[05:41:38] <ggm> one thing we use internally, tracking & presenting is 'time in state'
[05:42:05] <ggm> allison make sure states are unambiguous.
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[05:43:03] <ggm> james polk. exit date all docs since MN.
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[05:43:13] <ggm> ie not one WG inf requested after MN, but produced by IESG
[05:43:17] <ggm> Allison. no
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[05:43:25] <ggm> there were documents finished. these are all the approved
[05:43:43] <ggm> Allison. these are requested and finished. Exited is 'dead'
[05:43:46] <ggm> James sorry
[05:43:49] <ggm> IESG to the stage
[05:44:23] <ggm> ggm retires. Andy takes the pen.
[05:45:07] <Melinda> Thanks, ggm.
[05:45:30] <anewton> Harald introduces mic rules. one mic for issues, one mic for comments
[05:45:37] <anewton> speak clearly
[05:46:06] <anewton> Harald is keeping an eye on the time
[05:46:23] <anewton> IESG introductions.
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[05:47:45] <anewton> Harald may postpone issues that are about restructuring and admin for tomorrow.
[05:47:56] <anewton> David Meyer at mic
[05:48:23] <anewton> Reading script from email
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[05:49:02] <anewton> Question on individual submissions and consensus.
[05:49:23] <anewton> Is NOMCOM process effective for selecting our leaders.
[05:49:34] <anewton> I have been rejected by the NOMCOM 10 or 15 times.
[05:49:56] <anewton> Would also like these questions to to to IAB.
[05:50:10] <anewton> Harald now answering
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[05:50:32] <anewton> The alt to individual representation is represetation of companies or nations or both
[05:50:45] --- hardie has left: Disconnected
[05:50:53] <anewton> The consensus process is necessary to make individual participation work.
[05:51:09] <anewton> If doing voting, the person who gets 500 friends will get what they want
[05:51:25] <anewton> Dave: Does it hold, not that you believe it?
[05:51:38] <anewton> Harald: don't understand diff between hold and believe
[05:51:52] <anewton> Steve Bellovin: are people coming here with hidden agendas?
[05:52:01] <anewton> Dave: no. I'm asking a question.
[05:52:11] <anewton> Harald: Still don't understand.
[05:52:35] <anewton> Harald: on the NOMCOM, I'd like to ask that of the community.
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[05:53:05] <anewton> Harald: The working group on the NOMCOM did not decide to change the process
[05:53:34] <anewton> Harald: solicits from room on changing model to pick leaders
[05:53:53] <anewton> room: almost no hands
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[05:54:09] <anewton> Harald: who believes it should not change?
[05:54:15] <anewton> room: many hands
[05:54:31] <Loughney> Not many hands, not more than half.
[05:54:53] <sra> but very few for converse. lot of people not playing
[05:54:54] <anewton> That's not how it looked from my chair
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[05:55:30] <droms> More for "process is OK"; way fewer than half voted.
[05:55:42] <anewton> ??: rough consensus only works to a certain point. agree?
[05:55:46] <randy_g> What does "change the model" mean? Does it mean we throw out the idea of nomcom and go to voting? Or does it mean we try and fix whatever problems exist in the current process?
[05:56:13] <resnick> The former.
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[05:56:32] <resnick> Fixes to the nomcom do not change the nomcom model.
[05:56:32] <anewton> harald: disagree that the IESG is in position to overriede working groups
[05:56:44] <randy_g> I would be very much against a voting mode. We aren't a democracy. I've seen the ill effects of voting in other standards bodies.
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[05:56:55] <anewton> harald: that is messy if the wg is solid. sometimes an AD can influence strongly if the wg is divided.
[05:56:56] <Melinda> Ditto
[05:57:05] <randy_g> But that's not to say that the current process can't be improved.
[05:57:31] <anewton> ?? in some cases IESG makes decision without comment from wg
[05:57:45] <randy_g> Depends on what the changes are. There might be changes that don't go so far as voting, but are more than tweaks.
[05:57:45] <Melinda> Well sure - ever upward. But there are questions about how change should happen - incrementalism vs. revolution, etc.
[05:57:48] <anewton> harald: in some cases, IESG is charged with making a decision and sticking to it.
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[05:58:22] <anewton> Bob Morgan: RFC 2119 used many, many places
[05:58:48] <dlpartain> sorry folks, but i just got here... i assume we're talking about process changes, right?
[05:59:20] <anewton> bob: very precise for protocols. used in other contexts like specifying what should and shouldnot be done for extension writers
[05:59:54] <anewton> bob: consider extending examples of 2119 for these cases, and they MAY not apply for these cases
[06:00:00] <anewton> harald: what is the question?
[06:00:12] <anewton> bob: I fear 2119 is being used in places where it does not apply
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[06:00:53] <anewton> bob: maybe a new document for terms on requirements (and future extensions). has this come up in process change discussions.
[06:00:56] <anewton> harald: no
[06:01:25] <anewton> harald: should you use 2119 when not writing a standard
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[06:01:43] <anewton> Margaret: concerned about this language in requirements documents
[06:02:06] <anewton> margaret: some requirements docs define new terms
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[06:02:54] <anewton> bob: not just requirements docs, but for language referring to extenions of specs
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[06:03:08] <leslie> pekka savola
[06:03:45] <anewton> pekka: it is not clear when the uppercase terms apply
[06:04:12] <anewton> harald: who thinks we should update 2119?
[06:04:19] <anewton> room: few hands
[06:04:22] <anewton> harald: not
[06:04:25] <anewton> room: few hands
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[06:04:39] <anewton> harald: 90% of room is not stating an opinon
[06:04:50] <jt> that IS stating an opinion
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[06:05:05] <hartmans> Except of course that Bob is talking about standards track documents.
[06:05:08] <anewton> ??: perhaps restrict 2119 to only standards track
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[06:05:47] <anewton> harald: 2119 written because the AD who authored it objected to drafts using the uppercase terms without definition.
[06:06:07] <anewton> pekka: intent of the keywords is for interoperability
[06:07:02] <anewton> harald: issue identified which does not make sense to the group. Bob and Pekka, draft on clarifying the problem?
[06:07:15] <anewton> harald: no wireless complaints this time
[06:07:20] <anewton> room: clapping
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[06:07:47] <anewton> spencer dawkins: tonight of input on my draft on process
[06:07:53] <anewton> harald: tomorrow night
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[06:08:11] <anewton> harald: IESG open mic session finished. IAB not
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[06:08:15] <anewton> IAB NOW!
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[06:09:09] <anewton> leslie: introductions
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[06:10:06] <ggm> to explain to melinda, somebody is meshed in via an apple videoconf on the plenary platform
[06:10:31] <anewton> it is ekr
[06:10:35] <Melinda> Cool.
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[06:11:12] <anewton> IAB members introducing themselves
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[06:12:28] <Ole> Lets see the pics
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[06:13:03] <anewton> Leslie is showing slide on what has happened since last time
[06:13:41] <anewton> ISOC board of trustees: Margaret Wasserman, Fred Baker, Erik Huizer
[06:14:42] <anewton> Vern to give update on IRTF
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[06:15:17] <anewton> Vern giving IRTF status
[06:16:13] <anewton> vern: AAAAArch finishing up docs on policy grammar, experiences at Supercomputing.
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[06:16:22] <anewton> vern: they are likely to close after docs are out
[06:16:34] <anewton> vern: anti-spam is active, rechartered, new chair
[06:17:01] <anewton> http://asrg.sp.am/
[06:17:15] <anewton> vern: related BoF, MARID tomorrow
[06:17:53] <anewton> vern: cfrg
[06:18:12] <anewton> vern: dtnrg
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[06:18:57] <anewton> vern: e2e stauts
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[06:19:52] <anewton> vern: gsec not recently active
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[06:20:08] <anewton> vern: imrg held bandwidth workshop
[06:20:28] <anewton> vern: assessing proposed measurement protocol
[06:20:39] <anewton> vern: mobopts newly chartered
[06:20:57] <anewton> vern: nmrg docs in RFC editor q
[06:21:15] <anewton> vern: p2p forming subgroups
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[06:21:45] <anewton> vern: smrg
[06:22:11] <anewton> vern: rrg recharted, subgroup ad hoc network scaling rechartered
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[06:23:04] <anewton> vern: main thing is identifier locator split, related to HIP group, will soon have IRTF relation
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[06:23:21] <anewton> vern: question?
[06:23:24] <anewton> room: (none)
[06:23:40] <anewton> leslie: open mic
[06:24:40] <anewton> Dave m.: just asking questions, not about motives
[06:25:09] <anewton> dave: I think consensus based process is good. Just want to know if it still holds?
[06:25:43] <anewton> dave: hadn't heard it come up in restructuring
[06:26:07] <anewton> jonathan rosenberg: do you feel if something has changed to make it no longer true?
[06:26:25] <anewton> dave: are you aware what happened to me last time with Randy Bush. There was no consensus with that.
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[06:26:53] <anewton> dave: l3vpm wg is not consensus based right now
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[06:27:15] <anewton> leslie: this is the wrong body to speak to on that example, but we can speak to the question in general
[06:27:33] <anewton> dave: asking to validate his own opinions.
[06:27:58] <anewton> bob hinden: with regards to being nominated a lot, it has happened to me too. don't give up.
[06:28:28] <anewton> rob a.: dodging the first one. on wg operation. some operate on consensus, some don't but they are suppose to try
[06:28:43] <Melinda> Who said that?
[06:28:57] <anewton> rob: but when there is no common ground to begin with, then you can't make it work
[06:29:27] <anewton> dave: just asking the question are we making explicit the right assumptions
[06:29:39] <anewton> leslie: these are good questions to bring up periodically to revisit
[06:29:53] <anewton> sally floyd: we work by rough consensus, not consensus
[06:30:29] <anewton> ross (co-chair mentioned wg); don't understand what he means by that
[06:30:54] <anewton> ross: many wg's can come to a conclusion on just one solution. sometimes a decision just has to be made
[06:31:12] <anewton> ross: sometimes progress is made by allowing more than one approach to go forward
[06:32:04] <anewton> leslie: question on the question about consensus still working
[06:32:34] <anewton> dave: explaining the l3vpn... wants to retract statement
[06:33:11] <anewton> ross: if somebody has a disagreement on how a wg is working, they should tell somebody before standing up on a mic in plenary
[06:33:24] <anewton> leslie: this is beyond scope of this plenary
[06:33:51] <anewton> tony hain: sitting in wg's this week, several document editors and chairs saying "I" won't do "that"
[06:34:15] <anewton> tony: at what level is it consensus and at what level is it an individual forcing their view
[06:34:33] <anewton> larry messinter: consensus is a thin veil over a more complicated process
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[06:34:42] <leslie> s/messinter/masinter/
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[06:35:00] <anewton> larry: we expect judgement from the leadership to make up for consensus
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[06:35:27] <anewton> larry: our prinicple are more complicated than the word "consensus"
[06:35:46] <anewton> david black: consensus is not the end goal of what we are doing here
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[06:36:04] <anewton> david: chairs putting their foot down is one way bad ideas get squashed
[06:36:15] <anewton> leslie: all good thoughts, for tomorrows plenary
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[06:36:53] <anewton> david morman?: rough consensus involves everbodys voice being understood, not just the majority
[06:37:03] <droms> David Borman
[06:37:14] <anewton> david m: after that point, it is made
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[06:37:18] <anewton> thanks
[06:37:33] <anewton> no more questions
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[06:37:39] <anewton> leslie closes down the plenary
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[06:37:49] <Melinda> Many thanks to the scribes!
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