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[17:28:21] <geoff> Is this the right Jabber room for the plenary? Awfully sparse participation, considering there's maybe ~ 400 in room . . . !
[17:29:10] <Randall Gellens> Perhaps lots of people are having network problems
[17:29:58] <Randall Gellens> I had to switch to 802.11A. I was using B/G but as soon as the room filled up I lost my connection and had to switch to my A/B/G card.
[17:30:00] <geoff> Good point. I'm on 802.11a.
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[17:30:23] <geoff> Learned my lesson in Vancouver.
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[17:31:08] <raeburn> Same here. I think b/g is losing here... I'm on a borrowed card, but now that I've tested it out, I'm gonna buy one...
[17:31:16] <Randall Gellens> I have built-in B/G, so I start out with that, and if it fails, then plug in my A/B/G card.
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[17:36:24] <mrex> 3G TV for the laptop is likely a non-starter here. We have DVB-T in large areas and DVB-T (USB-sticks) have been used with success on office laptops during the soccer world cup 2006 :)
[17:39:42] <mrex> (here=Germany)
[17:39:52] <gparsons> it is very nice that all the presentations are online before the plenary starts...
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[18:08:27] <resnick> Is anyone doing the play-by-play for those of us who aren't in the room?
[18:08:38] <resnick> (Had to step out for a phone conference)
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[18:13:25] <sleinen> I think the MRTG statistics for the "IPv6 Tunnel" on https://mrtg.risq.qc.ca/public/MRTG-ericsson/ doesn't cover all IPv6 traffic. I'm sure I alone caused more IPv6 traffic than that over the past few days.
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[18:21:47] <weiler> Pete: you missed the baby picture.
[18:23:15] <Randall Gellens> Hey, that's the Keynote template I always use!
[18:23:38] <resnick> Whose baby?
[18:23:54] <weiler> Michelle Cotton
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[18:40:36] <mrex> Reasons for the lack of progress of documents on the standards track might be feature-focus/creep. More features are more important to some people and many companies than clarifications and KISS for the base spec
[18:42:36] <Randall Gellens> It's also a lot of work to advance documents
[18:42:57] <Randall Gellens> It's hard to justify spending the time to advance a document rather than work on new documents
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[18:47:53] <mrex> In the software industry, new features and new releases are deemed more important than maintenance of the installed base. The marketeers want to sell new products, they prefer to ignore the problems of the existing products (i.e. instead of fixing the old, they would like to sell the new). Maybe we've all just become accustomed to this?
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[18:53:01] <Randall Gellens> A point that seems to be missed: standards are not atomic; individual features and options of specifications get implemented or not, and interwork or not
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[18:53:11] <mrex> Option 3, cuttin the standards track down to two level is a very good idea, but it still will not help to get standards advanced from their proposed status
[18:54:28] <Randall Gellens> Ted's comment may be getting closer to the core of the issue, in that if we improve the quality of the specs (by basing them on running code) we'll likely have simpler specs that are easier to advance
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[18:57:04] <mrex> At the time when there are several independent implementations and it would be best to advance the draft, the active participants and implementors are already working on new features that they want or need and therefore they rather work on a successor spec (which enters at proposed) rather than trying to create the impression that the existing standard is where everyone outside of the IETF should be going.
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[19:01:57] <mrex> Personally, I'm not really surprised that the predominant "good-enough" attitude/approach in the software industry affects the standards process(es)
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[19:14:36] <mrex> louder
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[19:25:02] <Randall Gellens> What did ekr say? "People running the bof ?????"
[19:25:07] <Randall Gellens> (I missed it)
[19:25:36] <weiler> that having technology proponents running a BOF is a Bad Idea (tm).
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[19:28:19] <mrex> rejecting a document can become quite an effort for the IESG, blessing it is so much easier
[19:29:25] <mrex> I can understand that they sometimes give in just to free resources for more important things.
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