IETF
plenary
plenary@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, July 19, 2017< ^ >
Dave Thaler has set the subject to: Combined Plenary @ IETF 98
Room Configuration
Room Occupants

GMT+0
[06:28:18] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[06:57:49] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[06:59:46] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[07:08:23] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[07:36:28] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[09:32:02] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[09:36:49] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[10:07:55] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[10:09:27] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[10:10:35] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[10:11:44] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[10:26:19] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[12:21:43] Peter van Dijk joins the room
[13:51:16] Peter van Dijk leaves the room
[14:50:01] Mike Jenkins joins the room
[14:53:33] Joe Hildebrand joins the room
[14:54:01] Mike Jenkins leaves the room
[14:54:09] Joe Hildebrand leaves the room
[14:54:23] hildjj joins the room
[14:59:44] Meetecho joins the room
[15:01:49] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[15:04:05] Meetecho leaves the room
[15:04:41] Dan York joins the room
[15:05:10] Dhruv Dhody joins the room
[15:05:10] Daniel Kaiser joins the room
[15:05:10] Dapeng Liu joins the room
[15:05:10] Paul Cosgrove joins the room
[15:05:11] Joe Hildebrand joins the room
[15:05:20] Adeola Alain Patrick AINA joins the room
[15:05:21] Dan York has set the subject to: Combined Plenary @ IETF 99
[15:05:22] Agustin Formoso joins the room
[15:05:25] SM joins the room
[15:06:11] Mark Townsley joins the room
[15:06:58] Sean Leonard joins the room
[15:07:30] Victor Kuarsingh joins the room
[15:07:40] TedLemon joins the room
[15:07:52] Mark Townsley leaves the room
[15:07:53] Mark Townsley joins the room
[15:07:59] Phillip Hallam-Baker joins the room
[15:08:16] Mark Townsley leaves the room
[15:08:26] John Leslie joins the room
[15:08:33] Mark Townsley joins the room
[15:09:27] Balazs Lengyel joins the room
[15:09:43] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[15:11:25] Edward Lopez joins the room
[15:12:42] Tal Mizrahi joins the room
[15:13:03] Dapeng Liu leaves the room
[15:13:34] Wolfgang Beck joins the room
[15:14:22] Luay Jalil joins the room
[15:14:31] Alexa Morris joins the room
[15:14:42] Takuya Miyasaka joins the room
[15:14:44] Christopher Morrow joins the room
[15:14:55] Brandon Williams joins the room
[15:16:03] Takuya Miyasaka leaves the room
[15:16:04] Simon Pietro Romano joins the room
[15:16:09] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
[15:17:35] Nat Sakimura joins the room
[15:18:30] John Border joins the room
[15:18:38] Meetecho joins the room
[15:20:11] Timothy Shepard joins the room
[15:21:10] Eric Vyncke joins the room
[15:21:19] frodek joins the room
[15:21:40] Phillip Hallam-Baker leaves the room
[15:21:58] Eric Vyncke leaves the room
[15:23:21] maho joins the room
[15:23:32] maho leaves the room
[15:23:59] Eric Vyncke joins the room
[15:24:38] Mary Barnes joins the room
[15:25:36] Satoru Kanno joins the room
[15:26:06] Martin Horneffer joins the room
[15:26:37] Ned Freed joins the room
[15:27:29] Simon Romano joins the room
[15:28:59] Brian Campbell joins the room
[15:29:23] Daniel Kaiser leaves the room
[15:29:51] bhoeneis joins the room
[15:31:52] TedLemon leaves the room: Connection failed: timeout
[15:33:00] francesca joins the room
[15:33:02] TedLemon joins the room
[15:33:12] tohojo joins the room
[15:33:44] Alexandra Kulikova joins the room
[15:35:53] Edward Lopez leaves the room
[15:39:33] Balazs Lengyel leaves the room
[15:40:24] <Eric Vyncke> Fantastic social indeed
[15:41:01] Natasha Rooney joins the room
[15:41:11] John Klensin joins the room
[15:41:39] Raffaele D'Albenzio joins the room
[15:43:06] Matthew Boladele Akanle joins the room
[15:44:29] Wolfgang Beck leaves the room
[15:44:53] <Adeola Alain Patrick AINA> congrats Ray
[15:45:19] Klensin joins the room
[15:45:29] mcr joins the room
[15:49:32] avri doria joins the room
[15:51:04] Christian Saunders joins the room
[15:51:36] Natasha Rooney leaves the room: Stream reset by peer
[15:52:18] Edward Lopez joins the room
[15:57:33] <Adeola Alain Patrick AINA> great contributions Elise
[15:58:06] Natasha Rooney joins the room
[15:58:12] cmorgan joins the room
[15:58:33] <Klensin> Yes. Elise, sorry I can't be there to extend appreciate and congratulations in person.  And you need to explain "retire" to me sometime :-)
[15:59:44] <cmorgan> Did someone catch who asked that question?
[16:01:51] Ben Kaduk joins the room
[16:02:35] <Klensin> I do/will have a question for the IESG -- should I type it in here or expect to use Meetecho audio?
[16:02:51] TedLemon leaves the room: Connection failed: timeout
[16:03:11] Joe Hildebrand waves
[16:03:18] TedLemon joins the room
[16:03:25] Natasha Rooney misses Joe!
[16:03:25] <Meetecho> Klensin: the virtual queue is available, so you can definitely use it
[16:03:28] Melinda Shore joins the room
[16:04:00] <Sean Leonard> can we channel with Mic: ?
[16:04:17] ddp@jabber.org joins the room
[16:04:41] <Meetecho> Sean Leonard: not sure if anybody in the room is relaying questions
[16:05:25] mersue joins the room
[16:05:27] Nat Sakimura leaves the room
[16:05:31] Nat Sakimura joins the room
[16:06:40] mersue leaves the room
[16:06:42] <mcr> I'm sure if you had asked, someone would do it.
[16:07:06] <Sean Leonard> can someone channel me/my question? :D
[16:08:08] <Sean Leonard> Mic: I have several feature suggestions for IETF meetecho usage. One that the IETF as a whole should consider, is consensus checking by virtual hums and hands. I have been in many meetings via Meetecho where I wanted to hum one way or another, but typing so or getting in line to the mic would de-anonymize my opinion. There should be a hum feature, so that virtual participants can hum along, with a hum-button to make, and hum-meter to measure, virtual hums. Show of hands is semi-anonymous, but increasingly frequent, especially for the ubiquitous question, "how many people have actually read the draft? ;-)" That ought be supported too, somehow.
[16:09:37] Abhay Roy joins the room
[16:10:57] <Eric Vyncke> it is not about face-to-face but it is more about 'corridor/side' meetings which are difficult to make remote
[16:13:39] Ned Freed leaves the room
[16:13:51] Alexandra Kulikova leaves the room
[16:14:24] Abhay Roy leaves the room
[16:14:25] Abhay Roy joins the room
[16:14:27] Ned Freed joins the room
[16:15:28] <Meetecho> (working on the missing video feeds)
[16:16:27] m&m joins the room
[16:17:16] <Edward Lopez> why are we still seeing John and not the stage?
[16:17:34] Joe Hildebrand leaves the room
[16:18:13] john bond joins the room
[16:18:14] ddp@jabber.org joins the room
[16:18:23] ddp@jabber.org leaves the room
[16:19:05] <Meetecho> Edward Lopez: the streamer in the venue (which captures slides and speakers) had gone away, since it was not a server issue John was not affected
[16:19:08] Alexandra Kulikova joins the room
[16:19:33] <Dan York> The draft Suresh just mentioned is at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-manycouches-completely-virtual-meetings-04
[16:19:39] Luay Jalil leaves the room
[16:20:37] Luay Jalil joins the room
[16:21:19] Nat Sakimura leaves the room
[16:21:54] john bond leaves the room
[16:22:02] <Klensin> I am able to bring the stage up by a little double-clicking on the appropriate small image in the side.  You may have to switch modes (see the icons at upper right) to get those small images.
[16:22:09] ddp@jabber.org leaves the room
[16:22:35] <Mary Barnes> Yes, WG chairs should check the jabber room.
[16:23:09] tohojo leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[16:23:11] Takahiro Nemoto joins the room
[16:23:55] John Border leaves the room
[16:24:00] <Klensin> @Sean, the other thing about hums vs Jabber of Meetecho queue input si delay.  Even if there is no anonymity concern, by the time one can response remotely, it is too late.
[16:24:22] Samuel Weiler joins the room
[16:24:58] tohojo joins the room
[16:25:58] <Klensin> @Spencer: yes, exactly.  If the chair has taken a quick hum and moved on, or takes several in a row, by the time something goes into Jabber, and reaches the WG chair, it is often either confusing or too late.
[16:26:44] Olafur joins the room
[16:27:27] <Sean Leonard> yes. i have some feature suggestions on how to normalize that, and will follow up to IESG (and other appropriate lists, if you can mention them)
[16:27:28] francesca leaves the room
[16:28:05] <Sean Leonard> basically re: hums, the hum topic should be clearly recorded in text, along with the hum results
[16:28:15] <Klensin> @Eliot and Kathleen, I never suggested "remote only" -- I don't think we have any idea how to make that work, at least at any cost and procedural disruption level I can imagine our tolerating.
[16:28:16] <Sean Leonard> along with timestamp
[16:28:50] Luay Jalil leaves the room
[16:28:54] <SM> Sean, a few working groups post the question to the Jabber room before the hum
[16:29:39] <Sean Leonard> @SM: yes, i've seen that. but not consistent across WGs, and Jabber is not anonymized
[16:30:08] <SM> Sean, I understand the problem.  The "meter" suggestion sounds interesting.
[16:31:38] metricamerica joins the room
[16:32:12] <Sean Leonard> :)
[16:33:01] Alissa Cooper joins the room
[16:33:08] Samuel Weiler leaves the room
[16:33:16] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[16:33:33] Karen Moreland joins the room
[16:33:51] <Andrew Sullivan> Isn't this part of the goal of homenet?
[16:34:45] Alissa Cooper leaves the room
[16:35:00] Olafur leaves the room
[16:35:21] <John Leslie> Andrew: if it's in the charter, I missed it. :^(
[16:35:24] <Klensin> @SM, Sean, and others:  THis is the type of thing I'm concerned about vis-a-vis WG chairs: It would be easy to add a hum (or thumbs up/down) button to Meetecho (I think I even remember one, maybe from a prototype).  If it is to be useful, then we need to provide some easy way to get WG Chairs to enter the hum questions in some Meetecho-useful form so that answers can be connected to questions.  I can't speak for Meetecho, but I'm guessing that wouldn't be a big deal technically, but it does increase the number of things WG Chairs have to take responsibility for and the time it would take to provide that information might slow down meetings.  That is one of the reasons I pose this as questions about seriousness about making things work, even if the primary audience is those who attend (or have attended) enough f2f meetings to be well-connected with the community.
[16:36:08] Alexandra Kulikova leaves the room
[16:37:47] Brian Campbell leaves the room
[16:37:48] Brian Campbell joins the room
[16:38:50] <SM> John, it should be possible for the Jabber scribe to do type the question.  An important point is that the question should be clear before the "hum" is taken.  And having it in writing, in my opinion, helps.
[16:43:39] <TedLemon> @andrew what is part of the goal of homenet?
[16:44:24] Brandon Williams leaves the room
[16:45:04] Edward Lopez leaves the room
[16:46:32] Christopher Wendt joins the room
[16:48:05] Christopher Wendt leaves the room
[16:48:38] <Klensin> @SM: I don't know how much attention you have been paying to typing speeds and delay times, but, by the time the typical Jabber scribe records the question (especially if the question requires some sorting out in the room, as is common, types it is, that gets noticed by the remote people, and an answer is typed back into Jabber, it is often too late.  Time-stamping is a good idea, but, as someone who has had to try sorting this thing out from the chair seat, it just won't be enough, at least unless the meeting is paused after each hum to be sure the remote info comes in, etc., whether that be by Jabber or some more anonymous mechanism.  That sort of pause is exactly what the IESG is (or, IMO should be) worried about in terms of getting work done in the f2f meetings.
[16:50:23] metricamerica leaves the room
[16:50:59] Christopher Wendt joins the room
[16:51:10] <Andrew Sullivan> @Ted: RFC 7368 sez "   It is not practical to expect home users to configure their networks.
   Thus, the assumption of this document is that the homenet is as far
   as possible self-organising and self-configuring, i.e., it should
   function without proactive management by the residential user.
"
[16:51:16] <SM> John, Ah.  It can be too late if the WG Chair is not pausing for remote input.  It is also affected by the in-person/remote ratio.
[16:51:21] Melinda Shore leaves the room
[16:51:51] <Andrew Sullivan> I think that means that homenets are assumed to be unmanaged by professionals, and so the target use is exactly the sort of situation Phill was talking about
[16:52:02] <Andrew Sullivan> I dunno — most of the stuff in my house Just Works
[16:52:15] <mcr> I would like to have physical interims in my geography.   Even if it's just beer... I guess I should organize it myself; yet I found when I asked for a list there was actually significant pushback.
[16:54:15] Tal Mizrahi leaves the room
[16:54:19] <Klensin> @mcr: that is exactly what some of the "remote hubs" do.  Check the IETF list archive for that term in recent weeks.  I haven't heard of pushback on that although I've generated some of the pushback on what are now called "remote particpation hubs" that function during meetings.
[16:57:37] Alexandra Kulikova joins the room
[17:03:07] Jim Fenton joins the room
[17:04:34] Alexa Morris leaves the room
[17:04:35] Alexa Morris joins the room
[17:04:52] Samuel Weiler joins the room
[17:04:54] Shirley Shi joins the room
[17:06:18] Joe Hildebrand joins the room
[17:06:29] Jim Fenton leaves the room
[17:06:33] Jim Fenton joins the room
[17:06:35] <Andrew Sullivan> Re what Warren said, Is it bad news that people who will join a phone call are more interested in the drafts than the ones who'll fly around the world?
[17:06:56] <TedLemon> Yes, homenet is definitely supposed to fix Phil's problem.   :]
[17:07:20] <TedLemon> Alia wins.
[17:08:19] Victor Kuarsingh leaves the room
[17:08:39] m&m leaves the room
[17:08:41] Samuel Weiler leaves the room
[17:08:42] hildjj leaves the room
[17:08:47] Jim Fenton leaves the room
[17:08:49] <Dhruv Dhody> Thanks!
[17:08:54] Alexandra Kulikova leaves the room
[17:08:54] Martin Horneffer leaves the room
[17:08:54] John Leslie leaves the room
[17:09:11] Dan York leaves the room
[17:09:13] John Klensin leaves the room
[17:09:23] SM leaves the room
[17:09:24] Natasha Rooney leaves the room: Stream reset by peer
[17:09:33] Simon Pietro Romano leaves the room
[17:09:41] Takahiro Nemoto leaves the room
[17:09:41] Ben Kaduk leaves the room
[17:09:41] Joe Hildebrand leaves the room
[17:09:46] Paul Cosgrove leaves the room
[17:09:53] Jonathan Lennox leaves the room
[17:10:01] Christopher Wendt leaves the room
[17:10:31] Brian Campbell leaves the room
[17:10:37] Satoru Kanno leaves the room
[17:10:37] Mary Barnes leaves the room
[17:10:45] Alexa Morris leaves the room
[17:10:52] Abhay Roy leaves the room
[17:10:58] Mark Townsley leaves the room
[17:10:58] Raffaele D'Albenzio leaves the room
[17:10:58] avri doria leaves the room
[17:10:58] Sean Leonard leaves the room
[17:10:58] Matthew Boladele Akanle leaves the room
[17:10:58] Christopher Morrow leaves the room
[17:10:58] Lorenzo Miniero leaves the room
[17:10:58] Timothy Shepard leaves the room
[17:10:58] Karen Moreland leaves the room
[17:10:58] Adeola Alain Patrick AINA leaves the room
[17:10:59] Dhruv Dhody leaves the room
[17:10:59] Agustin Formoso leaves the room
[17:10:59] Christian Saunders leaves the room
[17:10:59] Shirley Shi leaves the room
[17:10:59] Eric Vyncke leaves the room
[17:10:59] Ned Freed leaves the room
[17:11:25] Meetecho leaves the room
[17:12:18] tohojo leaves the room: Machine going to sleep
[17:12:52] TedLemon leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[17:12:53] cmorgan leaves the room
[17:15:41] TedLemon joins the room
[17:21:53] frodek leaves the room
[17:23:23] Yoshiro Yoneya leaves the room
[17:23:43] Simon Romano leaves the room
[17:24:16] mcr leaves the room: Disconnected: closed
[17:24:22] mcr joins the room
[17:27:23] bhoeneis leaves the room
[17:37:27] TedLemon leaves the room: Stream closed by us: Replaced by new connection (conflict)
[17:37:27] TedLemon joins the room
[17:40:32] Natasha Rooney joins the room
[17:45:42] Natasha Rooney leaves the room
[17:49:32] mcr leaves the room: Disconnected: Replaced by new connection
[17:49:33] mcr joins the room
[18:01:23] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[18:03:10] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[18:17:11] metricamerica joins the room
[18:17:21] Klensin leaves the room
[18:31:46] TedLemon leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[19:43:01] metricamerica leaves the room
[19:43:05] mcr leaves the room: Disconnected: No route to host
[19:49:09] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[19:50:29] mcr joins the room
[19:50:58] mcr leaves the room
[20:00:29] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[20:12:05] TedLemon joins the room
[20:45:53] Yoshiro Yoneya joins the room
[21:24:09] TedLemon leaves the room: Connection failed: connection closed
[21:26:21] frodek joins the room
[21:28:03] frodek leaves the room
[22:56:41] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[22:56:48] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[22:57:24] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[22:58:02] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[22:58:12] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[22:58:22] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[22:59:02] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[22:59:14] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[22:59:49] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[23:00:00] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[23:00:37] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[23:00:48] Andrew Sullivan joins the room
[23:01:25] Andrew Sullivan leaves the room
[23:12:47] Olafur joins the room
[23:21:21] Alexandra Kulikova joins the room
[23:36:32] Olafur leaves the room
Powered by ejabberd - robust, scalable and extensible XMPP server Powered by Erlang Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS!