IETF
QUIC
quic@jabber.ietf.org
Tuesday, January 24, 2017< ^ >
Sean Turner has set the subject to: QUIC Interim - 20170124-20170126 | 9:30 am  |  Japan Time (Tokyo, GMT+09:00)  |  8 hrs
Room Configuration
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[00:12:24] Sean Turner leaves the room
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[00:21:02] <Sean Turner> H! Ted
[00:23:07] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> Morning, Sean (or other appropriate time value)
[00:24:32] <Sean Turner> we have sound in WebEx
[00:25:02] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> Cool.  We are not prjecting much here.
[00:25:06] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> er, projecting
[00:25:22] mnot joins the room
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[00:26:01] <craigt> I'd wish you all a good morning…but it might not make sense to everyone ;)
[00:26:32] <mnot> Minutes at:
[00:26:32] <mnot> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yp9EUz2BheZhMai4kAe1mcKq9Sv9rIfpEq_wXaX_Br0/edit
[00:26:34] <Sean Turner> fyi audio is pretty good so far
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[00:29:02] <craigt> video is excellent…wondering what the camera is
[00:33:20] <Alissa Cooper> we lost audio and video from the room
[00:33:24] <Lars Eggert> webex kicked us off
[00:33:26] <Lars Eggert> retrying
[00:33:27] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> Did you get the reference to Logitech/Logicool ?
[00:33:50] <mnot> can you see slides?
[00:33:54] <Alissa Cooper> yes
[00:33:55] <Sean Turner> yes
[00:34:03] <Alissa Cooper> except we see presenter mode
[00:34:20] <Sean Turner> yeah that's fine
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[00:36:15] <Daniel> \o/
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[00:37:38] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yp9EUz2BheZhMai4kAe1mcKq9Sv9rIfpEq_wXaX_Br0/edit
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[00:39:53] <Alissa Cooper> could we see video during intros?
[00:40:05] <Alissa Cooper> for when people stop saying their names at the mic after an hour ...
[00:40:14] <ekr> There isn’t even a mic so :)
[00:40:21] <Alissa Cooper> or not at the mic
[00:40:21] <Lars Eggert> want me to move the camera along?
[00:40:25] <mnot> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yp9EUz2BheZhMai4kAe1mcKq9Sv9rIfpEq_wXaX_Br0/edit
[00:40:50] <mnot> camera on now?
[00:41:06] <craigt> not yet
[00:41:12] <craigt> presentation gone…
[00:41:18] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> No video now; still have the slides here.
[00:41:43] <Lars Eggert> how about now?
[00:41:44] <craigt> video on
[00:41:46] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> And video again.
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[00:43:54] <Sean Turner> thanks for that video pivot
[00:43:58] <Daniel> lots of people there!
[00:43:58] <lstewart> Could someone kindly forward me the webex details please?
[00:44:09] <Alissa Cooper> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mb60c7f6d2e829549a18afde72ab6dc5b
[00:44:28] <lstewart> muchas gracias
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[00:45:59] <Sean Turner> I think that the parking lot makes sense - gives time for people to have a beer and discuss the issue
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[00:53:06] <Sean Turner> Denny's!!!
[00:54:54] <craigt> ask everyone in the room to turn off their 2nd and 3rd devices ;)
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[00:55:38] <Sean Turner> standing by (assumed this would happen during the first day)
[00:56:25] <Daniel> looks fine
[00:56:26] <lucasp> yes
[00:56:29] <krose> thumbs up
[00:58:29] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> I actually don't seem to have the presentation on my view -- I see an Apple menu bar, but no content.
[00:58:41] <Sean Turner> me too
[00:58:43] <mnot> how about now?
[00:58:43] <craigt> same
[00:58:44] <Daniel> me too, it started to show initially and then vanished
[00:59:14] <mnot> now?
[00:59:22] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> I think we just lost audio.
[00:59:37] <lucasp> H. Anthony Chan is stealing microphone focus from webex
[00:59:56] <craigt> yes
[01:00:02] <Roni Even> no
[01:01:02] <craigt> yes
[01:01:04] <Daniel> yay
[01:01:06] <krose> yes, it's back
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[01:01:10] <Roni Even> yes
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[01:01:32] <Sean Turner> I mean once the slides are on GH it'll all be fine :)
[01:08:13] <mnot> oh, I can do that
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[01:09:01] <mnot> please mute yourselves
[01:09:12] <mnot> https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/blob/master/interim-17-01/draft-ietf-quic-transport.pdf
[01:09:28] <Sean Turner> thanks mnot!
[01:12:09] <mnot> is audio somewhat reasonable?
[01:12:22] <Daniel> yes, its pretty good even!
[01:12:26] <mnot> cool
[01:12:27] <krose> A branching model might turn out to be more tractable than the grab bag model.
[01:12:35] <krose> Yes, the audio is good
[01:12:37] <craigt> yes, good
[01:17:35] <mnot> Mike: FWIW you sound good, almost like you’re in the room. Think remote presentation should work OK.
[01:22:03] <Sean Turner> you're back
[01:22:47] <mnot> Remote folks: can you see the agenda on webex?
[01:22:49] <mnot> (safari)
[01:22:54] <Sean Turner> yep
[01:22:57] <mnot> great
[01:26:26] <mnot> mike, you have some background noise :)
[01:26:37] <krose> someone needs to mute :-)
[01:28:01] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> Yes, I'm at home and I have a toddler.  Muting when I'm not talking; if I forget, please remind me.
[01:28:37] <spencerdawkins> Mike, please tell your little one we said "hello". But not ClientHello ;-)
[01:28:44] <mnot> NP, thx!
[01:29:33] <mnot> can you hear Ian OK?
[01:29:41] <Daniel> yes
[01:29:43] <craigt> yes thx
[01:30:37] <mnot> (brought to you by: http://www.mxlmics.com/microphones/web-conferencing/AC-404/ )
[01:33:19] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> Ian, great.  Whoever Jana's responding to, no.
[01:33:31] <mnot> Mirja?
[01:33:34] <craigt> Mirja Kuehlewind: …just a little moe
[01:33:36] <craigt> more
[01:33:37] <mnot> ok
[01:36:39] <mnot> see video?
[01:36:48] <Daniel> no
[01:36:55] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> Presentation, not video.
[01:37:08] <Sean Turner> Video!
[01:38:06] <mnot> hear her ok?
[01:38:09] <Sean Turner> much better
[01:38:12] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> Yes, that's better.
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[01:40:34] <mnot> hear spencer ok?
[01:40:45] <lstewart> :yes:
[01:40:53] <mnot> good. he’s pretty far from the mic.
[01:45:02] <Daniel> coffee refill time!
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[01:45:18] <Alissa Cooper> you guys can mute you know
[01:45:26] <Daniel> sssshhh
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[01:45:35] <Daniel> =)
[01:45:43] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> DON'T TELL THEM THAT!!!  ;-)
[01:45:46] <krose> If I close my eyes, I can pretend I'm there
[01:46:38] <craigt> all i need is a cup of coffee and a green tea kit-kat and the illusion is complete
[01:47:41] <krose> And COOKIES
[01:48:07] <krose> 🍪
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[01:57:08] <lucasp> the green tea kitkats make me wheezy, not sure what is in them as I like green tea proper
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[02:01:13] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> We are starting up again
[02:01:34] <mnot> remote folks: can you see / hear us?
[02:01:45] <Daniel> yeps, all is good
[02:02:14] <mnot> can you now see safari?
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[02:02:36] <Daniel> yeah we see issues
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[02:03:51] <Sean Turner> There's also on github: https://github.com/quicwg/wg-materials/blob/master/interim-17-01/transport-issues.md
[02:04:26] <Daniel> thanks
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[02:10:54] <Sean Turner> yep - this process worked well in TLS
[02:10:59] <Daniel> one down
[02:11:14] <Sean Turner> 99 bottle of beer takes one down ...
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[02:18:13] <lucasp> would a prioritisation mechanism/API need to consider multipath? i.e. the concept that an application could prioritise different frames down different paths
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[02:32:47] <spencerdawkins> I'm not going to ask this in the interim, but is it obvious whether we would tell an application that is using partial reliability what didn't get ACKed? Just curious, as an individual (feel free to explain this to me privately)
[02:33:14] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> Welcome to rtcp-ng spencer.
[02:33:14] <ekr> There isn’t any partial reliability
[02:33:20] <ekr> so the answer is either “yes” or “no” :)
[02:33:57] <ekr> JAR, you may want to invest in some sort of light in your room :)
[02:34:05] <spencerdawkins> EKR - right, that's why I'm not asking in the interim. It's not currently chartered, as I recall the charter.
[02:34:20] <ekr> Though if you are going for a spooky look, then mission accomplished
[02:35:34] <Sean Turner> next he's gonna bust out the white cat :)
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[02:53:04] <mnot> about to go to lunch.
[02:53:16] <Sean Turner> one hour right?
[02:53:24] <mnot> y. till 1pm local time.
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[03:02:11] <Sean Turner> c you in an hour
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[03:02:27] <Daniel> I figure that was on purpose
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[03:03:14] <Daniel> 4am local time here, this "lunch" may feel a bit long =)
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[03:24:17] <craigt> trying to work out who has the most awful time-shift…guessing Daniel
[03:25:04] <Daniel> I figure you're on roughly the same level
[03:25:50] <craigt> it's not a great contest to be in either way
[03:25:57] <Daniel> hehe
[03:26:20] <Daniel> I'm doing okey though thus far, you?
[03:26:28] <craigt> will get the kids up for school just after we're done
[03:26:53] <craigt> yes, coping better than Seoul
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[03:56:32] <mnot> coming back soon.
[03:58:05] <craigt> iei
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[03:59:03] <craigt> audio reutrned
[03:59:07] <lucasp> yes
[03:59:10] <Daniel> loud and clear!
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[03:59:39] <Sean Turner> nice!
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[04:00:45] <mnot> https://http2study.connpass.com/event/48577/
[04:02:15] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yp9EUz2BheZhMai4kAe1mcKq9Sv9rIfpEq_wXaX_Br0/edit#
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[04:11:30] <lstewart> Am I the only one who just got dropped off the call?
[04:11:43] <craigt> i believe so
[04:11:45] <Sean Turner> Maybe I'm still here
[04:11:51] <lstewart> k
[04:15:25] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> Variant string indicates a tuple of (handshake, wire format off stream 1)
[04:16:02] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> ((hummmm)) for the version implying the handshake protocol
[04:16:11] <Sean Turner> humm
[04:16:12] Daniel hums
[04:16:29] <lucasp> humm
[04:16:54] <lucasp> was a negative hum
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[04:40:57] <mnot> mike, might want to mute
[04:45:01] <Daniel> nice camera moves!
[04:45:13] <mnot> we aim to please.
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[06:01:34] <lucasp> mike: is the "v" parameter optional when advertising "hq"?
[06:08:28] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> Yes, it is.
[06:08:45] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> (((hum)))
[06:10:54] <lucasp> ok cheers
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[06:18:50] <lucasp> to my previous point, im thinking the easiest option for "lazy" alt-svc providers is to advertise no version. let the client negotiate it fully
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[06:30:51] <hardie@xmpp.rg.net> We are restarting.
[06:30:55] <Daniel> we hear you
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[06:31:20] <Daniel> 7:30am here ...
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[06:36:41] <mnot> who just joined?
[06:36:59] <lstewart> Sorry, was me
[06:37:04] <lstewart> I mashed the # sign early
[06:37:08] <mnot> np
[06:37:28] <lstewart> Hangouts keeps kciking me off the call every couple hours or so
[06:58:07] <lucasp> SETTINGS for HTTP/2 extensions that make semantic changes. How many of those are in existence?
[06:58:30] <Lars Eggert> @lucasp: want this relayed in the room?
[06:58:38] <lucasp> yes please
[06:59:32] <lucasp> and do they affect Quic semantics or http-over-quic semantics now?
[07:00:09] <lucasp> thanks!
[07:00:58] <Martin Thomson> We have the open question about how h2 and hq interact. I still don't know the answer, but I suspect that they are just different protocols.
[07:04:31] <mnot> remote folks, tell me if background discussions make it difficult to hear.
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[07:05:00] <Daniel> no problems
[07:05:16] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> For frames, it currently updates the registry to say whether the frame exists in h2 only, hq only, or both.  Settings is more complicated, since hq now supports variable-length values.
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[07:51:54] <Sean Turner> US east coast it's 2:51am
[07:51:55] <Daniel> http://everytimezone.com/ =)
[07:52:46] <craigt> …how have i never seen that site before…
[07:52:56] <lucasp> agreed
[07:53:14] <Daniel> I love the overview it provides
[07:56:14] <craigt> I wonder if trickier points would be agreed faster earlier in the day.
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[08:08:20] <Sean Turner> enjoy your beer folks!
[08:08:33] <Daniel> have a few beers for us remoties too
[08:09:00] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> mnot, please never do that (banging on the table) again.
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[08:09:12] <craigt> …se you tomorrow
[08:09:12] <Mike Bishop / Mike Bishop> It's... quite loud over the mic.
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