IETF
QUIC
quic@jabber.ietf.org
Wednesday, July 18, 2018< ^ >
janaiyengar has set the subject to: Really Draining
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[13:27:53] <JoeHallCDT> notes, yo:
[13:27:53] <JoeHallCDT> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-102-quic
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[13:32:51] <DavidSchinazi> Is there a jabber scribe? If not I can help
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[13:33:44] <DavidSchinazi> Please say "mic: " if you would like anything relayed at the microphone
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[13:38:23] <JoeHallCDT> who’s at the mic?
[13:38:25] <JoeHallCDT> (sorry)
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[13:38:56] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Jana Iyengar?  Or am I time-shifted?
[13:39:04] <sjero> That's right
[13:39:18] <sjero> ekr now
[13:39:34] <JoeHallCDT> ty
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[13:49:34] <mnot> Can remote folks hear OK?
[13:49:40] <Nick Banks> Yep
[13:49:40] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Yeah
[13:49:45] <Lucas Pardue> yep
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[13:53:05] <Spencer Dawkins> meetecho, I'm seeing a lot of blocking for a few seconds on each slide change. I'm remote (in Dallas). Does it look OK to you? If it does, it would be fine on the recordings, I guess?
[13:53:32] <Michael Bishop> I'm locally connected, and seeing the slides transition cleanly.
[13:53:39] <DavidSchinazi> Brian's presentation starting
[13:53:41] <Meetecho> Spencer Dawkins: it looks fine here, so no worries, recordings will be fine
[13:54:27] <Spencer Dawkins> Thanks!
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[14:01:30] <DavidSchinazi> Jana Iyengar at mic
[14:02:31] <DavidSchinazi> Mirja Kühlewind at mic
[14:02:51] <DavidSchinazi> Jana again
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[14:03:42] <DavidSchinazi> Gorry Fairhurst at mic
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[14:04:21] <DavidSchinazi> Tommy Pauly at mic
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[14:05:55] <DavidSchinazi> Ted Hardie at mic
[14:07:16] <DavidSchinazi> Mirja at mic
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[14:09:05] <DavidSchinazi> EKR at mic
[14:09:45] <Dmitri Tikhonov> agreed, let's get closure on some of these
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[14:12:04] <DavidSchinazi> Colin Perkins at mic
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[14:18:37] <JoeHallCDT> who was that? (FB?)
[14:23:02] <Nick Banks> I disagree with Ekr.
[14:23:07] <DavidSchinazi> Subodh Iyengar at mic
[14:23:51] <Nick Banks> Encryption may be offloaded to hardware, so having the QUIC code get any AEAD tag back from that would be very difficult.
[14:24:04] <Nick Banks> CID is trivial to deal with.
[14:24:09] <Michael Bishop> @nick, can you get in the queue?
[14:24:35] <Nick Banks> I have to figure out how.
[14:24:50] <DavidSchinazi> Ian Swett at mic
[14:25:06] <Lucas Pardue> @nick there is a "virtual queue" button in top right
[14:25:14] <JoeHallCDT> I missed EKR’s approach as he was many EKRs talking speed, can someone summarize it for the notes?
[14:25:34] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I thought by definition EKR could not exceed 1.0 EKR...
[14:25:42] <DavidSchinazi> Tommy
[14:25:46] <Michael Bishop> Short version:  We already have a quasi-random value in the auth tag of the Initial.  Echo that.
[14:25:51] <JoeHallCDT> ty
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[14:26:34] <Michael Bishop> Response was the same thing Nick said:  With hardware offload (among other cases), it's challenging for a sender to actually *know* the auth tag of packets it sent previously.
[14:26:46] <blassey> given that the universe is still intact, he did not exceed 1.0 ekr
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[14:27:17] <Michael Bishop> 1.0 is normal ekr speed; he possesses a verbal warp drive.
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[14:34:25] <DavidSchinazi> Igor Lubashev at mic
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[14:50:54] <Rui Paulo> Receive AND decrypt :)
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[14:55:52] <Dmitri Tikhonov> David, amen
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[15:01:35] <Lucas Pardue> telnet over QUIC?
[15:01:45] <Praveen Balasubramanian> Randomization makes it very hard for debuggability. Let's keep things predictable
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[15:02:20] <DavidSchinazi> Tim Shepherd at mic
[15:02:45] <Michael Bishop> ACKs are a normal example, too.  If an ACK arrives and you've lost state, your SR is likely to be larger than the ACK.
[15:03:04] <DavidSchinazi> Praveen, do you want that relayed?
[15:03:30] <Praveen Balasubramanian> yes mine and Mike's point please
[15:04:00] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> ... Mike is not there to say it himself?
[15:04:23] <Michael Bishop> Yes, I am.
[15:04:37] <Martin Duke> Aren't we already rate controlling SRs?
[15:04:50] <Michael Bishop> Not required in the spec.
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[15:06:00] <sjero> +1
[15:06:25] <Michael Bishop> (I'm mostly on MeetEcho because I'm sitting too close to the screen to see the slides comfortably.)
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[15:11:40] <DavidSchinazi> Manasi Deval at mic
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[15:12:25] <mnot> Patrick McManus
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[15:16:44] <DavidSchinazi> EKR@mic
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[15:34:09] Dmitri Tikhonov is interested in CIDs
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[15:40:35] <Lucas Pardue> I opened one too sorry
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[15:45:45] <Michael Bishop> Great!  I'll take a look.
[15:46:43] <Martin Duke> Is there any reason for QUIC to diverge from TCP on these sorts of problems?
[15:47:03] <Rui Paulo> Really depends on what you mean by "TCP"
[15:47:14] <blassey> Ian's data
[15:47:19] <Martin Duke> bleeding-edge TCP being discussed in tcpm
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[15:48:17] <Martin Duke> Ian's data is informing the tcpm discussion, no?
[15:48:55] <blassey> probably should, but unclear to me
[15:50:22] <Martin Duke> I think Gorry's point is that having the same discussion in tcpm and quicwg is silly.
[15:50:50] <Martin Duke> maybe we need a new WG for common congestion control and loss recovery issues
[15:50:57] <Martin Duke> iccrg, but for standards
[15:51:31] <blassey> another way to look at it would, if tcpm comes to a different conclusion, that would constitute the "new data" needed to reopen the discussion on this
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[15:53:29] <Praveen Balasubramanian> i think the current stance is we use TCP algorithms and document all deviations with justification in the recovery draft
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[15:57:06] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I thought we were even chartered to have that behavior
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[15:57:19] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> or rather, the property that Praveen describes
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[15:59:11] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Hmm, I guess it's just that "defining new congestion control schemes
is explicitly out of scope"
[15:59:59] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Why not truncate-32(SHA256("v2"))?
[16:00:14] <Lucas Pardue> quic is at v40+, why not start with QUIC v100
[16:00:24] <Spencer Dawkins> Re: QUIC name and GQUIC/iQUIC - I've seen slides during this meeting that said "QUIC and GUIC", so picking something seems helpful!
[16:00:30] <DavidSchinazi> end of meeting, thanks everyone
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[17:34:43] <Adam Roach> Hi! I'm the jabber scribe.
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[17:34:56] <Adam Roach> Please @ me if you want me to take a comment to the mic.
[17:36:37] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> Are you sure you're in the right room, Adam?
[17:38:09] <Adam Roach> Ah! Thanks!
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[17:38:24] <Adam Roach> HTTP… QUIC… same thing, right?
[17:38:35] <kaduk@jabber.org/barnowl> I mean, the agenda says QUIC right there, so...
[17:38:53] <nygren > but the zombies have different arm patches.
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