IETF
rfcform@jabber.ietf.org
Friday, November 8, 2013< ^ >
Barry Leiba has set the subject to: RFC Format BoF, IETF 85 | audio at http://ietf85streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf858.m3u
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[01:32:42] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Agenda
[01:32:48] <Alessandro Amirante> Current presenter: Chair
[01:32:48] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 3: Agenda
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[01:33:04] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 4: Background
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[01:33:08] <stpeter> I shall be your Jabber relay
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[01:33:39] <Joe Hildebrand> thanks be to you, peter.
[01:33:44] <stpeter> :)
[01:34:06] <SM> Is the Jabber relay secure?:)
[01:34:24] <barryleiba> Peter looks pretty well settled to me.
[01:34:38] <Joe Hildebrand> SM, feel free to use "MIC:" and someone will relay.
[01:34:45] <Joe Hildebrand> i'll do it if nobody else is in line.
[01:35:01] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 5: RFC Format Design Team
[01:35:09] <SM> Thanks, Joe.
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[01:36:02] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 6: Current Status (1)
[01:36:31] <barryleiba> Rough language?  In the IETF?  I'm shocked!
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[01:37:22] <stpeter> is that cursing.net or cursive.net? ;-)
[01:37:28] <Joe Hildebrand> heh
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[01:41:16] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 7: Current Status (2)
[01:41:20] <Joe Hildebrand> by the way, we'll fix that eventually.
[01:42:13] <stpeter> http://cursive.net/draft-hildebrand-html-rfc.html
[01:43:08] <SM> Joe, it's pretty
[01:44:00] <Andrew Sullivan> The reason you'd quote Beowulf is to illustrate the length of time some WGs seem to be around.
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[01:44:11] <stpeter> :)
[01:44:13] <Ted Lemon> Har!
[01:44:16] <Joe Hildebrand> SM: thanks.  i've been more interested in the tags in view/source than the rendering in browsers; the CSS is going to be a *real* bikeshed.
[01:44:37] <SM> Well, it is a significant different and it will please some people :-)
[01:45:01] <Joe Hildebrand> we'll eventually want someone with real design skill to be involved.
[01:45:36] <SM> Ah
[01:45:46] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 8: Next Steps
[01:47:37] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 9: Expected Question #1
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[01:49:28] <Andrew Sullivan> I'm trying to understand what it means to say "80 characters" in a variable-width variable-sized reflowable context
[01:49:35] <Andrew Sullivan> is this "picos" or something?
[01:49:40] <Joe Hildebrand> Andrew Sullivan: that's why Paul said something.
[01:49:45] <Joe Hildebrand> don't worry, we'll fix it up.
[01:49:52] <Andrew Sullivan> I figured you would :)
[01:50:19] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 10: Expected Question #2
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[01:50:57] <Joe Hildebrand> sweet, sweet, ponylike consensus.
[01:51:10] <Andrew Sullivan> It's too much of a pain to get to the mic, but note that the consequence of the last bullet is that 7-bit-only viewers won't work
[01:51:21] <Ted Lemon> yes.
[01:51:26] <Ted Lemon> TOPS-20 is hosed.
[01:51:26] <Alessandro Amirante> Slide 11: Non-ASCII examples
[01:51:31] <Andrew Sullivan> if you're using text, your xterm needs to be using a UTF-8 locale
[01:51:33] <Andrew Sullivan> effectively
[01:51:42] <Ted Lemon> Yup.
[01:51:48] <Andrew Sullivan> Not saying I disagree, just noting it so that people understand
[01:51:53] <Joe Hildebrand> nod.
[01:52:22] <Joe Hildebrand> although 7-bit viewers will usually just see a few messed-up things, and will be able to read past that point.
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[01:53:00] <Andrew Sullivan> likely yes
[01:53:42] <Andrew Sullivan> though some systems do truly spit up on high bits.  But if you're still using that for development, I suspect that you have other problems :)
[01:54:08] <Ted Lemon> Those of us who still read our email using PROFS will be very upset.
[01:55:03] <Ted Lemon> (Actually, I haven't read email using PROFS since 1997)
[01:55:10] <barryleiba> PROFS got so much better when it was renamed to "OfficeVision".  Ahem.
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[01:56:57] <barryleiba> Ted, how did you get stuck with PROFS, back in the day?
[01:57:09] <barryleiba> My excuse is that I worked for IBM.
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[01:58:51] <roessler> paul, please don’t just say "XML", but call the format *something* other than that.
[01:59:35] <barryleiba> Errata: turning a mess into a bigger mess.
[01:59:50] <roessler> wait, is this b-a?
[01:59:51] <Joe Hildebrand> roessler: nod.  maybe "xmlrfc"
[02:00:32] <Andrew Sullivan> Perhaps the total inability to understand the errata system after we introduce diagrams will encourage people to update the documents more often?  (Yes, that's a joke.)
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[02:02:58] <stpeter> I wonder why we have two mics in this room :-)
[02:04:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> stpeter melius abundare quam deficere ;)
[02:04:24] <Andrew Sullivan> also, why they're in a row as opposed to across the room from one another
[02:04:50] <stpeter> Lorenzo Miniero: :-)
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[02:16:37] <Brian Carpenter> barry, you're oscillating
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[02:17:58] <barryleiba> Don' like me stripes?
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[02:20:05] <stpeter> Brian Carpenter: that's a Google bug
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[02:21:25] <Brian Carpenter> really? glad I use Gajim
[02:21:39] <Ted Lemon> http://asciitex.sourceforge.net/
[02:21:46] <Joe Hildebrand> http://www.mathjax.org/demos/mathml-samples/
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[02:22:46] <Ted Lemon> http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v3.pdf
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[02:27:10] <Andrew Sullivan> ASCII works everywhere because we no longer use EBCDIC
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[02:27:44] <john.levine> anything that misinterprets UTF-8 with a BOM at the front is pretty badly broken
[02:27:51] <Andrew Sullivan> It is _just a consequence_ of having a coded character set that you have the potential to have a collision
[02:27:53] <Andrew Sullivan> yes
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