IETF
rtcweb@jabber.ietf.org
Thursday, 29 March 2012< ^ >
martin.thomson has set the subject to: RTCWEB WG http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/agenda
Room Configuration

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[06:47:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Good morning. We're still preparing the room. I'll be your Jabber scribe on the left hand side of the room. It's a big room today.
[06:47:20] Lorenzo Miniero joins the room
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[06:56:04] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Welcome to the RTCweb wg meeting. We're still preparing and waiting for the meeting to start.
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[07:00:26] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Please bring your seats to an upright position and prepare for takeoff - Ted Hardie
[07:00:54] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Very few people in the room compared with last time. I guess Paris was fun last night… :-)
[07:01:07] hta joins the room
[07:01:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> FYI, a Meetecho room with integrated jabber room, slides and audio/video is available http://www.meetecho.com/ietf83/rtcweb
[07:01:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWEB
[07:01:23] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> The beamer in the room is still weird, blue/green
[07:01:28] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: NOTE WELL
[07:01:38] Martin Thomson joins the room
[07:01:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> glad to know everybody's seeing it that way
[07:01:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> I thought it was just me :)
[07:01:56] Cullen Jennings joins the room
[07:01:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: We mean this
[07:02:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: AGENDA Day 2
[07:02:42] Jonathan Lennox joins the room
[07:02:53] Justin Uberti joins the room
[07:02:54] <Cullen Jennings> Can someone with the link post it here ?
[07:03:05] Rosen, Brian joins the room
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[07:03:17] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Vote for Stockholm http://www.doodle.com/nm3pp69znr3286cy
[07:03:26] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Doodle for the next Interim meeting
[07:03:28] <Cullen Jennings> vote 5
[07:03:29] Ross Finlayson joins the room
[07:03:35] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Who's at the mic? :-)
[07:03:45] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Stefan Håkansson
[07:04:42] Dan York joins the room
[07:04:52] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[07:04:56] Justin Uberti leaves the room
[07:04:57] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> ——— First presenation
[07:05:03] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> presentation
[07:05:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: JSEP Update
[07:05:12] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> JSEP update by Justin Uberti
[07:05:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Topics
[07:05:27] Jan Skoglund joins the room
[07:05:50] hta leaves the room
[07:05:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Activity since IETF 82
[07:06:11] hta joins the room
[07:06:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Implementation Status
[07:06:39] <hta> I note that "least controversial" does not have to be "uncontroversial".....
[07:06:46] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> :-)
[07:07:34] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> After all, this is the rtcweb group...
[07:07:45] <hta> note - name is webkitPeerConnection00, not webkitJsep00PeerConnection.
[07:07:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: W3C Status
[07:08:04] <Alessandro Amirante> Meetecho is at www.meetecho.com/ietf83/rtcweb
It provides a synchronized view of the official jabber room, the current slides being presented, a shared note taking editor and an audio/video stream from the room...
[07:08:12] frodek joins the room
[07:08:35] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Remote users: If you need me to voice your thoughts or questions, please prefix with "mic:"
[07:08:44] Luca De Cicco joins the room
[07:08:51] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Room is slowly filling up as people get out of the starbucks queue downstairs
[07:08:56] <Alessandro Amirante> ...please use different nicknames if you join by means of both Meetecho and a standalone jabber client
[07:09:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Issues Raised
[07:09:13] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> EKR at the mic
[07:09:28] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> EKR= Eric Rescorla for future reference
[07:09:35] rbarnes joins the room
[07:10:20] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Document discussed: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep-00
[07:10:35] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Cullen Jennings on mic
[07:11:50] Magnus joins the room
[07:12:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Provisional Answers
[07:12:39] <Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2)> Early media is only about billing. Do we really need this?
[07:13:44] Xin Chen joins the room
[07:14:11] Olle E. Johansson, Paris, France for the IETF 83 (GMT +2) is now known as oej-scribe
[07:14:14] Jan Skoglund leaves the room
[07:14:27] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg on mic
[07:14:55] <oej-scribe> Partha Ravindra talking
[07:16:11] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: PRANSWER Use Case 1
[07:16:53] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: PRANSWER Use Case 2
[07:16:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: PRANSWER Use Case 1
[07:17:05] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg at mic
[07:18:04] <oej-scribe> Martin Thomson talking
[07:18:23] <oej-scribe> "There is no early media, there is only media" - Martin
[07:18:25] Xin Chen leaves the room
[07:18:28] <oej-scribe> Agree fully!
[07:18:30] <jesup> are the slides up?
[07:18:48] Harald Alvestrand joins the room
[07:18:59] Xin Chen joins the room
[07:19:00] <Dan York> I kind of like the "early media" term, actually.
[07:19:01] <jesup> see them now
[07:19:19] Harald Alvestrand leaves the room
[07:19:21] <oej-scribe> Dan: Define "early media"? Before 8 am?
[07:19:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: PRANSWER Use Case 2
[07:19:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: PRANSWER Semantics
[07:20:10] <Jonathan Lennox> Insert "Is that your final answer" joke here.
[07:20:20] <oej-scribe> Partha Ravindran talking
[07:20:47] <hta> Timers are evil.
[07:21:05] <oej-scribe> Oh yes. They are.
[07:21:46] <oej-scribe> Richard Eizak talking
[07:22:05] wittner joins the room
[07:22:18] <oej-scribe> If we start early media, we're soon into forking and early media and then things gets really messy
[07:22:27] <oej-scribe> EKR talking
[07:22:39] <oej-scribe> Queue lining up
[07:22:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: PRANSWER Use Case 1
[07:23:13] <Dan York> "trickle"
[07:23:48] <oej-scribe> EKR still talking. You recognize him by the number of words per second.
[07:24:46] <oej-scribe> Harald alvestrand talking
[07:25:19] <oej-scribe> Cullen jennings (individual)
[07:25:44] <oej-scribe> Martin Thomson talking
[07:26:06] <rbarnes> whoa, purple!
[07:26:16] <Alessandro Amirante> :)
[07:26:19] <Lorenzo Miniero> back to normal ;)
[07:28:15] <oej-scribe> partha was speaking
[07:28:19] <oej-scribe> Stefan Håkansson speaking
[07:28:40] Tom Wesselman joins the room
[07:29:34] <oej-scribe> Next Jonathan Lennox
[07:30:07] Mo Zanaty joins the room
[07:30:27] <oej-scribe> Jonathan talking
[07:31:14] <Dan York> Are these slides up on the site? I don't see them on the Materials page ... and I'm getting too old - I can't read the freaking SDP from the back of the room.
[07:31:19] <oej-scribe> Tim Panton talking
[07:31:33] <rbarnes> york: move forward, theyr'e legible from here
[07:31:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> they should be Dan
[07:31:48] <Dan York> Oops... just forced a full refresh of the materials page - there they are!
[07:31:49] <Lorenzo Miniero> for projecting them in Meetecho that's where we got them from
[07:31:59] <Jonathan Lennox> I may have forgotten to state my name at the mic? If so, sorry.
[07:32:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Multiple 2xx Answers
[07:32:20] <oej-scribe> Magnus Westerlund talking as chair
[07:33:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: Multiple 2xx Answers
[07:33:08] <Dan York> richard - cute! You're right, I *could* move forward. But back here I can escape easier :-)
[07:33:10] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg
[07:33:16] <Magnus> They slides are present here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/83/materials.html
[07:33:17] <oej-scribe> talking
[07:33:51] <jesup> One option here is to clone the peer connection in response to each answer
[07:33:53] <mhp> Not well defined in SIP? "ACK-n-BYE, baby"
[07:33:58] <oej-scribe> Forking is as evil as timers.
[07:34:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 13: Associating Candidates
[07:34:09] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: Multiple 2xx Answers
[07:34:14] <oej-scribe> mhp: :-)
[07:34:38] <oej-scribe> There room is not full. Plenty of room for Dan Yorks in the front.
[07:35:11] <jesup> mic: what about cloning peerconnections for each 200 OK?
[07:35:38] <oej-scribe> Partha Ravindran talking
[07:35:40] <Magnus> Jesup, ack
[07:36:02] <oej-scribe> magnus: I take it you voice it
[07:36:05] <Magnus> I will channel you when your turn is up
[07:36:15] <oej-scribe> ack
[07:37:20] <oej-scribe> queue lining up
[07:37:39] <oej-scribe> Richard Eizak talking
[07:37:46] <jesup> mic: (cont - in non one-to-one call cases (data, or opening connections to have them 'hot' when needed
[07:37:58] <oej-scribe> It's done at SIPit to test clients - the multiple answers thing
[07:38:08] <oej-scribe> jesup: The line was cut before that.
[07:38:10] dontcallmedom@jabber.no joins the room
[07:38:26] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg talking
[07:38:28] <Magnus> I will take the whole statement, as it makes it more understandable.
[07:38:54] <oej-scribe> ok
[07:40:08] <oej-scribe> Cullen Jennings (individually)
[07:40:46] <oej-scribe> Hadriel Kaplan talking
[07:41:18] <Jonathan Lennox> jesup: that means the ICE stack needs to demux multiple ICE instances, etc., yes? (Saying this here since the mic is closed.) They'll have the same local ICE candidate set.
[07:42:21] <Jonathan Lennox> Apparently Hadriel is channeling me.
[07:42:22] burn joins the room
[07:42:25] Thomas Stach joins the room
[07:42:36] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 13: Associating Candidates
[07:43:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 14: Release of Candidates
[07:44:19] <Xin Chen> I want to know whether today's recording will be released, i have not found the yesterday's recording.
[07:44:52] <oej-scribe> magnus? MeetEcho team
[07:44:54] <oej-scribe> ?
[07:44:59] <oej-scribe> Martin THomson talking
[07:45:04] Chris Wendt joins the room
[07:45:07] <Cullen Jennings> All the recording should be made available - I am not sure how long that takes to happen but I suspect it does not take too long
[07:45:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Xin do you mean our (Meetecho) recordings?
[07:45:21] <Xin Chen> yes
[07:45:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> soon ;)
[07:46:03] <Xin Chen> get it, thanks~
[07:46:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> we'll announce it on the list
[07:46:28] <oej-scribe> martin still talking
[07:48:01] <jesup> jonathan: yes, I assume so, at least temporarily - or it may need to reset the ice state as if there had been an IP change, etc. This would allow for more complex scenarios that might be used in games, for example, where a server or even another client forks your offer
[07:48:02] <Magnus> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/83/remote-participation.html does contain links that hopefully will work soon.
[07:48:12] <Simon Romano> @Xin: Yesterday's RTCWEB is the next on the list...
[07:48:49] <Simon Romano> ..coming soon on the above site ;-)
[07:49:04] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg talking
[07:49:53] <oej-scribe> "Reliable provisional responses bla bla bla" - Christer
[07:50:41] <Martin Thomson> pcp!
[07:51:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 15: ICE Restarts
[07:51:05] <Martin Thomson> port control protocol or Phencyclidine
[07:51:54] <oej-scribe> hta: Doesn't hangouts support network blips today?
[07:52:20] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg talking
[07:53:12] Olivier Perret joins the room
[07:53:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 16: JSEP States
[07:54:53] <oej-scribe> Jonathan Lennox talking
[07:55:01] <oej-scribe> Cullen (as individual)
[07:56:34] Xin Chen leaves the room
[07:57:01] <jesup> jonathan: clone :-D
[07:57:15] <oej-scribe> Jonathan is at the mic, not reading
[07:57:29] <oej-scribe> Robert Sparks talking ("beloved area director")
[07:57:43] <oej-scribe> Richard talking
[07:59:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 17: JSEP Attributes
[07:59:08] <oej-scribe> Chairs are in control of the meeting :-)
[08:00:15] <oej-scribe> EKR talking
[08:01:11] Tom Wesselman leaves the room
[08:01:34] Jan Skoglund joins the room
[08:02:03] <oej-scribe> Christer Holmberg talking
[08:03:36] <oej-scribe> for remote users: If you want us to voice your statement/query/opinion - then please prefix your message with "mic:"
[08:03:56] <oej-scribe> Harald Alvestrand talking
[08:04:45] <oej-scribe> "You're now plugging in to the engine, whatever you do is at your own peril" - Harald about SDP tweaking in the JSEP API
[08:04:59] <oej-scribe> Martin Thomson talking
[08:04:59] Chris Wendt leaves the room
[08:05:22] <oej-scribe> "weird stuff - that includes browsers too, right?" - Martin
[08:07:04] <oej-scribe> Tim Panton speaking
[08:07:24] <oej-scribe> Stefan Håkansson talking
[08:07:33] <oej-scribe> (one of the w3c wg chairs)
[08:07:56] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 18: Questions
[08:08:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 17: JSEP Attributes
[08:08:24] <Dan York> Bernard Aboba at mic
[08:08:32] <oej-scribe> thc
[08:08:32] Tom Wesselman joins the room
[08:08:36] <oej-scribe> thsnks
[08:08:53] <Alessandro Amirante> FYI, the Meetecho recording of yesterday's RTCWEB session is now available at http://www.meetecho.com/ietf83/recordings
[08:08:59] Dan York hands oej some caffeine for his typing...
[08:09:01] <oej-scribe> (from another old man with poor eyesight)
[08:09:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[08:09:17] <oej-scribe> — Next presenation
[08:09:26] <oej-scribe> Data channel <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-rtcweb-4.pptx>
[08:09:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: WebRTC Data Channels
[08:09:36] <oej-scribe> Salvatore Loreto
[08:09:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Outline
[08:10:03] Justin Uberti joins the room
[08:10:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 3: Data Channel Requirements
[08:10:32] <Dan York> "Presentazione interrotta" always sounds nice in the chat whenever Lorenzo types it, even though I don't actually know what it means.
[08:10:53] tomkrist joins the room
[08:11:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> :D
[08:11:16] <Lorenzo Miniero> sorry about tha!
[08:11:19] <oej-scribe> Todays agenda http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/agenda/agenda-83-rtcweb.txt
[08:11:23] saghul joins the room
[08:11:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> it's an automated message that says the presentation is over
[08:11:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> my browser is in italian :)
[08:11:47] <oej-scribe> Document http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-00
[08:11:51] Ram Mohan R joins the room
[08:12:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Protocol Stack
[08:12:53] <oej-scribe> Where's the good ol' packet driver and int 14?
[08:13:00] <Dan York> Don't be sorry, Lorenzo, it's cool! Not something I see every day. I appreciate it.
[08:13:09] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Datagrams over SCTP over DTLS over UDP
[08:13:10] <jesup> I have an implementation of DataChannels per the latest W3 API and my protocol draft 90% implemented in Firefox (a few dangling ends to hook up -- as of a few minutes ago..
[08:13:15] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[08:13:57] <SM> And if you keep it, people will have something to complain about at the mic. :-)
[08:14:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Envisioned Usage of SCTP
[08:14:33] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Datagrams over SCTP over DTLS over UDP
[08:14:50] <Dan York> +1 for running code
[08:14:59] Luca De Cicco leaves the room
[08:15:00] <oej-scribe> +2 for running Open Source code
[08:15:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> +3
[08:16:04] <oej-scribe> Which working group was that?
[08:16:21] <oej-scribe> James Polk talking
[08:16:33] <Dan York> TSV working group, oej
[08:16:33] <Justin Uberti> Randell, has Michael finished abstracting the SCTP stack to run over DTLS? i.e. removing the need to look at the route table and apply IP headers?
[08:16:34] <SM> Transport area
[08:16:45] <oej-scribe> tsv working group
[08:16:50] <Magnus> TSVWG
[08:16:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Envisioned Usage of SCTP
[08:17:10] Jan Skoglund leaves the room
[08:17:17] <Dan York> Isn't that when many drafts get read? (working group meetings)
[08:17:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> solitaire still wins I guess
[08:18:22] <jesup> Justin: Michael and EKR are meeting today about SCTP/DTLS
[08:18:55] <oej-scribe> ??? at mic
[08:18:56] <jesup> I don't know Michael's plans on that
[08:19:09] <Justin Uberti> ok, super. I talked to Michael about this on Tuesday and he said there was a bit of work to do there.
[08:19:42] <oej-scribe> (Need a jabber scribe on the right hand side of the room to read name tags)
[08:19:43] <Justin Uberti> But he was hoping to have someone work on it soon.
[08:19:43] <jesup> Probably so, though I suspect it's an optimization
[08:20:02] <oej-scribe> Michael talking
[08:20:07] <hta> Michael Tuexen
[08:20:39] <Dan York> oej - or you just need to yell out like I just did
[08:20:41] <oej-scribe> — Need a jabber scribe on the right hand side of the room to read name tags --
[08:21:03] <oej-scribe> I've been yelling quite a lot… :-)
[08:21:14] <oej-scribe> Is Cullen going to cut Ted from the mic?
[08:21:15] <Dan York> *Cullen* - can you please ask people to state their names
[08:21:35] <Dan York> or Magnus
[08:21:36] <oej-scribe> :-)
[08:21:39] <Magnus> Will do when the situation the right one.
[08:22:01] <Martin Thomson> I'm saying "name" when people get up to the mic, but it doesn't always work
[08:22:19] dontcallmedom@jabber.no thinks each mike should have a sign wtih a "state your name" reminder
[08:22:37] <oej-scribe> Ted hardie as individual speaking
[08:22:49] <oej-scribe> SCTP over DTLD over UDP
[08:22:52] <oej-scribe> DTLS
[08:22:54] <Dan York> dontcallmedom - great idea!
[08:23:07] <oej-scribe> SCTP over DTLS over SCTP over UDP
[08:23:43] <jesup> mic (optional - someone else decide as the moment has passed -- congestion control is important and it's important to keep low-delay for he media even if the data channel is sending a large amount of data, so we will explore options here, such as Cx-TCP.
[08:23:51] <oej-scribe> Hadriel Kaplan talking
[08:24:18] <Dan York> thank you, magnus
[08:24:47] <Dan York> jesup - I can take it to the mic
[08:24:52] <oej-scribe> "We can always screw up" - Salvatore
[08:24:58] <oej-scribe> Eric talking
[08:25:19] <oej-scribe> Cullen Jennings as individual
[08:25:56] <oej-scribe> Harald Alvestrand coming up next
[08:26:47] <oej-scribe> SCTP over multiple DTLS connections - mentioned by Cullen
[08:27:24] <oej-scribe> Cullen (not chair) being cut off by Magnus (chair)
[08:27:34] <oej-scribe> Harald Alvestrand
[08:29:43] <oej-scribe> Dan York proxy Randell Jesup
[08:29:55] <oej-scribe> Justin Uberti talking
[08:30:13] <oej-scribe> Martin - who's behind Justin?
[08:30:26] <Martin Thomson> randell stewart
[08:30:34] <oej-scribe> Ted as chair talking
[08:31:05] <oej-scribe> Randell Stewart talking
[08:31:31] <oej-scribe> Michael Tuexen talking
[08:32:28] <oej-scribe> Magnus as chair talking
[08:33:09] <Martin Thomson> It's entirely possible that you have TCP on part of the media path, but UDP on other pieces. This happens when you use relaying through TURN or maybe even HTTP(s)
[08:33:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Association Setup
[08:34:02] <oej-scribe> Cullen talking
[08:34:10] Neil Stratford leaves the room
[08:34:11] <jesup> No
[08:34:28] <hta> kill ALL the middle boxes....
[08:34:39] <Lorenzo Miniero> jesup, if you want to talk directly to the room you can try dialing in to this number
[08:34:39] <jesup> Middle box has no need to know
[08:34:44] Ross Finlayson leaves the room
[08:34:45] <Lorenzo Miniero> +1-347-964-0107
[08:35:13] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Channel Definition
[08:35:20] <Lorenzo Miniero> we also have an italian number up if it's better for you
[08:35:33] <oej-scribe> Salvatore back running presentation
[08:35:37] Jan Skoglund joins the room
[08:35:41] <jesup> cullen: the middlebox knows if it's in the path, since it must be terminating the SCTP/DTLS connection
[08:36:14] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Channel Definition
[08:37:15] <jesup> dialed in if needed
[08:37:21] <Lorenzo Miniero> ok
[08:37:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Usage of Payload Protocol Identifier
[08:37:40] <Lorenzo Miniero> dial *51 (star five one) when you need to unmute, ad *52 to mute again
[08:37:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> tell us if that doesn't work for you and we'l tak care f that
[08:38:06] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Minor Protocol and Message Format
[08:38:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: ??
[08:38:49] Dan York leaves the room
[08:38:57] <oej-scribe> Cullen talking
[08:39:17] Neil Stratford joins the room
[08:40:08] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 15: Control Messages
[08:41:48] <oej-scribe> Harald alvestrand talking
[08:42:00] <oej-scribe> (was scribing in another chat window. Poor Lasse)
[08:42:11] <oej-scribe> Michael talking
[08:42:49] <oej-scribe> Hadriel Kaplan talking
[08:43:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
[08:43:27] <oej-scribe> Next presentation
[08:43:32] <oej-scribe> Adam Roach
[08:43:41] <oej-scribe> — Video Codec Selection
[08:43:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 1: RTCWEB: Video Codec Selection
[08:43:45] <jesup> dropped off phone
[08:43:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> :)
[08:44:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 2: Adam Who Now? What are you doing up ther
[08:44:06] <oej-scribe> Video codec selection <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/slides/slides-83-rtcweb-5.ppt>
[08:44:27] <Lorenzo Miniero> feel free to use it again if you need to talk again
[08:44:57] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 4: Codec Highlights
[08:46:05] <oej-scribe> Stefan Winger talking
[08:46:35] Tom Wesselman leaves the room
[08:46:49] <oej-scribe> Tim Terriberry talking
[08:47:04] <oej-scribe> Stefan Winger talking
[08:47:29] <oej-scribe> Only two sides to this coin?
[08:47:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Potential Ways Forward
[08:47:49] Gyubong Oh joins the room
[08:48:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 6: Reflection on Option 3
[08:48:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Reflection on Option 3, cont.
[08:49:04] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 5: Potential Ways Forward
[08:49:07] <oej-scribe> Bernard Aboba talking
[08:49:33] <oej-scribe> Ted Hardie (chair) talking
[08:50:24] <oej-scribe> Magnus Westerlund as chair
[08:51:27] <oej-scribe> Tim Panton talking
[08:51:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> as long as it's not h261! :)
[08:52:00] Gyubong Oh leaves the room
[08:52:02] <oej-scribe> Stefan Winger talking
[08:52:17] <oej-scribe> H.261 going out of patent very soon.
[08:52:43] <oej-scribe> Tim Terriberry again
[08:52:55] <oej-scribe> Eric Rescorla speaking
[08:53:55] <oej-scribe> Justin Uberti at mic
[08:54:39] <dontcallmedom@jabber.no> (well, there is a H.264 JavaScript decoder, which illustrates that you can actually download executable code from the Web in 2012 to decode video)
[08:54:41] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 7: Reflection on Option 3, cont.
[08:55:11] <oej-scribe> Stefan Winger again
[08:55:29] <oej-scribe> HTML5 does not have a mandatory codec
[08:55:55] <Lorenzo Miniero> and that should be exactly the reason to have one here
[08:56:06] <oej-scribe> :-) Agree
[08:56:15] <oej-scribe> Stefan Winger talking
[08:56:41] <oej-scribe> "This is not content" - Adam
[08:57:12] <oej-scribe> Failed calls are BAD
[08:57:21] <oej-scribe> Jean-Marc Valin talking
[08:57:40] <oej-scribe> There will be no Open Source transcoding available
[08:57:49] <oej-scribe> Matt talking
[08:58:26] Nikos Leontsinis joins the room
[08:58:41] <oej-scribe> EKR talking
[08:59:06] <oej-scribe> He said the "F" word!
[08:59:12] <Lorenzo Miniero> :D
[08:59:15] <oej-scribe> Flash
[08:59:28] <oej-scribe> Tim Terriberry talking
[08:59:42] <oej-scribe> ??? talking
[09:00:15] <oej-scribe> Anyone that can see the name tag?
[09:00:17] <jesup> Strong preference for a mandatory codec
[09:00:44] <oej-scribe> Who's talking?
[09:00:53] Dan York joins the room
[09:01:01] <Lorenzo Miniero> can't read the tag sorry
[09:01:58] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 8: Chairs: Call for Consensus
[09:02:06] <oej-scribe> We need favorable Open Source licensing in small quantities
[09:02:32] <oej-scribe> Eric Rescorla
[09:02:47] <Rosen, Brian> Strong consensus for "who read the note well"
[09:02:57] <oej-scribe> Ted Hardie talking
[09:03:01] <hta> did you check the opposing hum on the note well, ted?
[09:03:05] <oej-scribe> Cullen talking (as chair)
[09:03:41] <jesup> VP8
[09:03:47] <Jonathan Lennox> It occurs to me that the other item from the logical set of options would be to make *both* MTI, and make everyone unhappy.
[09:04:25] <oej-scribe> Cullen collecting information for the chairs
[09:04:51] <oej-scribe> Stefan Weger talking
[09:05:00] <hta> Jonathan, that would guarantee near 100% non-conformance with the spec....
[09:05:41] <oej-scribe> Missed the name of the speaker
[09:05:50] <oej-scribe> — on the other side of the room --
[09:06:05] <oej-scribe> Justin Uberti talking
[09:06:44] <oej-scribe> Ted Hardie talking
[09:06:48] <oej-scribe> Christian talking
[09:07:09] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 9: Backup Slides
[09:07:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 10: Alternate Decision Making
[09:07:27] <oej-scribe> Alternate Decision Making Process - RFC 3929
[09:07:50] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 11: Criteria for Use
[09:08:24] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 12: What if we don’t agree to use it?
[09:08:59] <oej-scribe> Stefan Weger talking
[09:09:09] <SM> Well, it's Experimental:)
[09:09:34] <oej-scribe> Stefan responding
[09:10:12] markushx joins the room
[09:10:17] <oej-scribe> Bernard Aboba was talking
[09:10:26] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 13: What is the Process?
[09:11:10] <oej-scribe> Roni Even talking
[09:12:01] <oej-scribe> Roni Even again
[09:12:25] <jesup> Nothing is 100% in IPR (virtually nothing)
[09:12:28] <oej-scribe> Ted Hardie talking (chair)
[09:13:21] <oej-scribe> Bernard Aboba talking
[09:13:45] <hta> bernard's got the question by the balls....
[09:14:00] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 14: Method 1: External Review Team
[09:14:15] <oej-scribe> Spencer Dawkins made a short comment on the mike
[09:15:29] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 15: Method 2: Mixed Review Team
[09:16:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 16: Method 3: Qualified Short-Straw Selectio
[09:16:42] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 17: Method 4: Random Assignment
[09:17:13] <oej-scribe> EKR talking
[09:17:47] <oej-scribe> Roberto talking
[09:18:46] <oej-scribe> Ted Hardy (individual)
[09:19:20] <oej-scribe> Dean Willis talking
[09:19:36] rbarnes leaves the room
[09:20:07] <dontcallmedom@jabber.no> (isn't it the case that the two only known browsers committed to implement WebRTC have said they want to implement VP8?)
[09:20:41] <oej-scribe> H.264 is a no go for apps like Asterisk
[09:20:45] rbarnes joins the room
[09:20:49] <oej-scribe> I have no personal insight into licensing of VP8
[09:21:02] <Lorenzo Miniero> couldn't agree more
[09:21:07] <Martin Thomson> "wouldn't touch either with a ten foot pole dipped in a heavy duty condom"
[09:21:15] <oej-scribe> Alistair Woodman
[09:21:26] rbarnes leaves the room
[09:21:36] <jesup> mic: h.261 is safe, but would guarantee that the protocol would fail to reach common use.
[09:21:45] Nikos Leontsinis leaves the room
[09:21:56] <oej-scribe> Adam talking
[09:22:23] <oej-scribe> Jonathan Lennox talking
[09:22:29] <oej-scribe> Can somone queue up as proxy for Jesup?
[09:22:35] <oej-scribe> Please.
[09:22:38] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 14: Method 1: External Review Team
[09:23:10] <oej-scribe> Spencer Dawkins talking
[09:23:22] <Lorenzo Miniero> jesup want to try talking again?
[09:24:13] Dan York leaves the room
[09:24:50] <dontcallmedom@jabber.no> it seems to me that a way to poll the group on preferred vs acceptable is something that would help make a decision
[09:25:05] <Lorenzo Miniero> Slide 18: A View from a Non-Horse Owner
[09:25:44] <oej-scribe> Harald Alvestrand talking
[09:26:06] <oej-scribe> Did someone proxy for Jesup?
[09:26:51] <oej-scribe> Thanks Cullen!
[09:27:19] <oej-scribe> Richard Eizak talking
[09:27:20] <oej-scribe> Lines are cut off — no more talking
[09:27:22] <oej-scribe> Three minutes left
[09:27:45] <Cullen Jennings> sorry this got lost - it might be that someone was in line for Jesup but I lost track if there was
[09:28:02] <oej-scribe> Stefan Wenger talking
[09:28:14] Olivier Perret leaves the room
[09:29:12] <hta> "moderate amounts of traction" is a way of putting it gently....
[09:29:39] <oej-scribe> Bill talking
[09:30:08] <hta> which bill is he?
[09:30:25] <oej-scribe> good question, don't remember sir name. sorry.
[09:30:29] <oej-scribe> Justin Uberti talking
[09:30:59] frodek leaves the room
[09:31:12] <Simon Romano> @rendell...to unmute you phone, dial *51
[09:31:15] <oej-scribe> Jean-Marc Valin talking
[09:31:19] Melinda leaves the room
[09:31:28] <Magnus> Bill Ver Steeg
[09:31:43] <oej-scribe> Thanks
[09:31:55] burn leaves the room
[09:31:56] <oej-scribe> Ted closing the meeting.
[09:31:56] dontcallmedom@jabber.no leaves the room
[09:32:02] hta leaves the room
[09:32:05] <oej-scribe> That's all folks. That's for participating !
[09:32:10] <Lorenzo Miniero> see you
[09:32:12] <oej-scribe> — over and out ---
[09:32:12] Justin Uberti leaves the room
[09:32:17] <Lorenzo Miniero> recordings of this session will soon be made available
[09:32:21] <Meetecho audio> Bye everybody!
[09:32:23] Jan Skoglund leaves the room
[09:32:23] <Lorenzo Miniero> those of yesterday already are: http://ietf83.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Recorded_Sessions#RTCWEB_IETF83
[09:32:26] Meetecho audio leaves the room
[09:32:30] <Lorenzo Miniero> bye
[09:32:31] SM leaves the room
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[09:32:43] <Lorenzo Miniero> Presentazione interrotta
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